DOD147: No Kids Allowed

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can. Complete and utter dependence. I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired.

0:00:22 Clip: Telling is the only part of being a father that I enjoy.

0:00:29 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that gets no respect. I'm Tom Curry. I've joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:32 Thomas: Hi

0:00:38 Eli: Hello?

0:00:42 Tom: I think the most important thing about an intro is to quote a comedian from, I don't know what, the early 1980s? Problematic, deeply

0:00:50 Eli: Oh, Oh, re I - am I doing someone's problematic re - is that?

0:00:52 Thomas: I respect no that's no that still get the rodrigy danger fan he's

0:00:55 Eli: It drives

0:00:54 Tom: Dangerfield I get no respect he

0:00:55 Eli: You - Roddy Dangerfield is not problematic! He's

0:00:58 Thomas: Not oh well he's dead so

0:01:00 Tom: Is now he

0:01:01 Eli: - I'm not gonna watch any clips, I am sure he's problematic, but as far as I remember, he's not problematic.

0:01:03 Thomas: I can't imagine he's He's not problematic. He's just not funny.

0:01:08 Eli: He was an insult comedian. It was so good.

0:01:11 Thomas: Not funny.

0:01:11 Eli: And it was funny because he would just - he would be like, hey, sir, thanks for coming, is that your your wife or your dog and everyone was like I fucking love this guy that's great he said my wife is ugly I hate her because I'm a boomer this is the best I'm in las vegas we're having a great time do you know the don uh story about frank sinatra so don rickle's open for frank sinatra literally because don rickel's mother was friends with frank sinandra's mother and was like how come your boy never gets my boy any work and so frank sinestra's mom called frank and was was like there's this comedian out in vegas and he opens for you now and frank sinatra was like but ma I gotta sing a song and she was like no he opens feet so they have this working relationship he opens für frank sinandra the entire time he's in vega uh don rickles has a first date with the woman who will turn out to be his wife right and so before the show he comes up to frank he says frank we're gonna be eaten in the casino after the show it would really mean a ton if you would would come over and like say hi she would be really impressed she got a chance to meet you and and sinatra for those who don't know used to literally go straight from stage into a limo home again he hated the star culture he was a very socially anxious person he's also a giant bag of shit that's a different story so he's like ah don I don't really do that it'll take me so long to get through please frank just this one time I really like this girl mean the world to you he's saying okay fine what restaurant are you gonna mean he tells him the restaurant right so So he walks over to Don, he does the show, makes his way through the casino floor, signs a million autographs, takes a million pictures, right, does all this stuff, finally makes his way over to Dan Rickles' table. Don sees him and says, Frank, I told you not to bother me while I'm eating.

0:01:12 Thomas: Sorry. Jesus.

0:02:49 Eli: But gentlemen, do you know the only thing that's a worse insult than that? Why it's the auto ads. Yes, the auto adds, they're in there. They're in our podcasting. Maybe you've already heard one. Maybe you're already heard seven, but there's one way to remove them from your podcast enjoyment experience and that's by supporting the show over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dads where you'll get a commercial free extended version of every single show get a little parenting story at the end of every show sometimes tom shows up for that part of the show not always not always he's a busy man but sometimes when he feels like it he's a part of that show you also get bonus episodes my friends we just recorded another AMA yeah we talked about self -care and massages

0:03:31 Thomas: Yeah, big news. Now, Eli, how many questions do we have left in that particular AMA?

0:03:39 Eli: We have three questions left in that AMA but we did only get through two today when we recorded it

0:03:44 Tom: Trying for five

0:03:45 Thomas: It. Did we not? I thought we were going to get, why didn't we lighten around the last one? Oh my God.

0:03:46 Eli: So said the words lightning round but you did not know who you were podcasting with you can't just say lightning round and then it is a lightning round that's not how it works but you can get all of that over at patreon .com forward slash dear old dads for as little as a dollar check it out patreon .come forward slash dear old dads rip into it rip into it we

0:03:59 Thomas: I thought that's how it worked. I was just going to say, and then I didn't make the joke because I didn't want to. I was going to put up a days since last ripped into it. And it. And I think we'd gotten to like one or two and I was really proud of that.

0:04:24 Eli: Never I would never forget rip into a Thomas

0:04:26 Tom: Since we've ripped into it we've kept the rip I did see the fan art yeah, it

0:04:29 Thomas: Did you see the the art the fan art yeah that's Eli

0:04:34 Eli: What is it

0:04:35 Thomas: Meant to send it because you're not on anything but someone made a fan art rip into it of our logo it's fantastic it's really good

0:04:40 Tom: Was great

0:04:37 Eli: I'm not on anything I'm so sad I miss that thank you for making that whoever made it that makes me so happy that's to be fair before I became a crazy person that's what my relationship was with the audience people would make a nice thing and I'd be like oh thank you so much and then I was like in 2014 someone said I wasn't funny on Instagram and now have to be trapped in a small glass bubble of gentle fiction. Patreon.com forward slash DOD. Let's rip into it. Right, gentlemen. So now we've heard a Verizon commercial in Spanish, probably, at least if you're in my neighborhood, a little story and it got me thinking about a topic. So we went to go see some friends this week, live about a two-hour drive from us a event in their lives. I'm being vague. Uh my sister listens to this show my sister's a narc so I'm gonna be vague though obviously now

0:04:55 Thomas: It's amazing rip into yeah

0:05:35 Eli: She would just know what I'm talking about so I've sort of defeated the thing yeah I don't know I don't Know what the purpose is this for don't tell on me lily damn it I

0:05:38 Tom: I don't know if this is helping

0:05:36 Thomas: I'm not sure yeah now you should just yeah also you should also just hate your family it's great just like

0:05:45 Eli: Don t I love my family we

0:05:47 Thomas: You're the one who's scared to tell a story about them yeah

0:05:49 Eli: Went to a family event about two hours away and I I really love this family but the event was very clearly for them and their friends it was not something that me and my family should have been at and max was the only child there um was the only male chromosome there besides my son but like I don't I mind that like it was very clearly like a local event for friends and what it struck me while it was a lovely event and I really appreciated the invite like struck мне this thing and I wanted to see if this resonated with you is that when you have really young kids a lot of people like don't really take into account how difficult it is for you and your kids to be at a place right so like if you have a wedding and I have to move my four-year-old to a different state and have him sleep in a different place for that weekend like I love your special day I love you I value you I cherish you I can't wait to celebrate with you but like understand that what me and my family will go through to do

0:06:38 Thomas: Fuck yeah

0:06:50 Eli: That is significantly negative for us right I think that that doesn't often get talked about among parents because there's sort of this like you should be apologizing for having kids in the first place mentality especially when it comes to like fun stuff right because often what happens is that family that have grown children or children that that are old enough to just enjoy the event will throw the event and they're like throwing a party or doing a fun thing inviting you on a vacation right something like that and so for everyone else it is a treat that they are doing for their friends and family and for you it's kind of a burden and I think because we recognize that societally we often sort of go hard in the other direction which is like I guess if you want to bring your kids to my wedding you can right and And we can also talk about like kid -free weddings and what an insane concept that is, right? Close to wife -free weddings that would be. Just like,

0:06:50 Thomas: It's so much what okay

0:07:47 Eli: Hey, you know that thing you love with your whole heart? I don't. I want to have one without any dames there. So please, no fucking dames. Right? Like that's what

0:07:59 Tom: That's the craziest thing I ever heard are

0:08:00 Thomas: I don't sign on to that yeah I

0:08:01 Eli: - free wedding is like. That's what it is. It's just you being like, right.

0:08:04 Thomas: Think you should be allowed to have a kid -free wedding and just understand that people might not be able to go to it. That's fine. Whatever.

0:08:09 Eli: But then like never speak to the person about it, don't right, be like oh you're not coming of course I'm not fucking coming

0:08:11 Thomas: What? No, you can, no, you can get a fucking babysitter. You can, you can maybe.

0:08:16 Eli: I'll just leave my kid alone with someone who statistically molest them that sounds fucking great

0:08:20 Tom: You gonna live your whole life without babysitters that's not you have a nanny

0:08:23 Thomas: I mean, I'm not even, I, yeah. You had an, I was almost doing that. Yeah. You're going to lecture me. I was almost the one doing that and I never had childcare until we finally found some little bit here and there for like one night. It was amazing.

0:08:25 Tom: You clearly don't subscribe to that view

0:08:39 Thomas: Yeah, no. No, sometimes Lydia's parents can can look after them so we can go to the puzzle and all that.

0:08:38 Eli: Ever in my whole life that's true they do that in the pajama

0:08:45 Thomas: But I know I and we've talked about how there's no good solution to this. And we've talking about I think early on bears repeating like the difficulty of keeping friends when you become a new parent, because they don't have kids, they don' t have any idea, really. And even if they do, they can' t really like it. Or if they do, then they're just like, well, you don't have time. And then the relationship kind of just doesn't have time anyway, because there's feel like there's a sense in which sometimes they're like, yeah, okay, I get all that that you just said, Eli, about how it's impossible to take, you know, your kids somewhere especially with, if we have to go on a trip somewhere and stay in a hotel that just means I don't get to sleep then, because it's Impossible to

0:08:45 Eli: Party right

0:09:23 Thomas: Do it. And so there does seem to be a sense in Which they're like, Yeah, okay. But like for this once, can't you just neglect your kids and you're like no if I ever do that I'm in trouble you can't yeah there's this very human instinct that's like okay but like surely sometimes you ought to be able to it's like no no there's pretty much uh you got to be 100 on that one like you don't get yeah perfect

0:09:33 Eli: The the government comes and takes him away on yeah it's a hundred percent all the way in He's got a perfect score. I know it's very intense. It's very intense. And it's this weird thing because you can feel those friendships severing sometimes, right? Or you can fill them distancing. And I don't know about you guys but because I have very young friends and you guys have met most of them who are like just now getting married, right, and definitely don't have kids. And so a lot of their lives are the lives of either newly married or single people. And so they're like, well well, I'm thinking we'll have dinner at nine. I'm like, I don't know. I'm fucking asleep at nine, I must sleep. I'm unconscious in

0:09:49 Thomas: Perfect record yeah yeah wow yeah

0:10:21 Eli: My home at 9 p .m. And so the interesting thing that I think doesn't get to get talked about, Because right? In sort of modern popular thing, it's like, ah, the old ball and chains. I hate my kids, I wish I could be free. As opposed to like the genuine sadness you feel that people make so little space for you in their lives and how little like your really important needs matter to them in that moment like ignored you feel and how left behind you feel in those moments I don't know I wanted to know if that was sort of because again like I I this family I love them so much but I couldn't help but feel like ah wow I really didn't even merit like a second thought about this huh like Like, this was just, this is just a click on the old Evite and a text message. And that was all, was all the thought that went towards me and my beautiful little favorite person.

0:11:17 Tom: Guess I feel a little differently about it but I I empathize with a few points for sure like to have family which thank god I don't anymore that would invite me to um

0:11:25 Thomas: It's the best

0:11:26 Eli: And wish you wouldn't talk about Eamon that way, Tom. It's, it's so, so

0:11:28 Tom: Not aiming. Stop it with that. It's stop it with that. Stop It with that stop it genuinely stop it with that that

0:11:30 Eli: Sad. Eamons, if you're listening to this in therapy, it was so sad

0:11:31 Thomas: You should hear the things I don't let into the show he says about Eamon fuck

0:11:37 Eli: That I couldn't

0:11:38 Tom: Have family gatherings that everybody was expected to attend and they'd be like, oh, we're you know, we're all going to meet at this like very nice restaurant and this was like when Finn was like an actual baby and I would be like okay. Well, I'm expected to go. We're all gonna go and then what's going to happen is I'm going to walk around outside bouncing a kid and

0:11:57 Eli: Yeah, while my steak gets cold.

0:11:59 Tom: Yeah or like or on several occasions just did not get a chance to eat this because is not a space that is appropriate for him to be in

0:12:02 Thomas: Wait you don't get to take a break from just having a kid like you're just hey time out time out on kid and then you drop it and then you don't get to do that is that not how it works

0:12:08 Eli: Time out. Right.

0:12:13 Tom: No not at all like what I what I felt was exceptionally rude about that was the expectation that I go right so it wasn't like a it was not an invite that could be declined. Right. So if that invite was declined, it would not have been taken. And if there was any pushback, like, hey, that's really not a great space because I was the only one with a little kid. So everybody else, like to your point, everybody else in the family at that time didn't have little kids. I wasthe only one with the little kids that was like, well, we all just want to go to this nice restaurant. And so this is where we're going to have Easter dinner or whatever is at this nicerestaurant downtown. I'd be like, that's going to be horrible for me. That is just going to be the worst for know because like I was also like very much of the mind that like okay like if he starts crying like this this is these are my in -laws so like they should be together and I'll pop out outside and I will grab you know I'll grab the kid

0:13:01 Tom: And be outside and

0:13:02 Thomas: Sometimes fake having a baby so that I can do that yeah what

0:13:04 Tom: So like I did feel like that was just just fantastically unbelievably rude rude every time that that happened. I was like, this this sucks super bad. But I think in a lot of other occasions, it's kind of on me to ask people, Hey, is this kid friendly? This Is a kid friendly event that you've invited me to? And if they say like, Hey. Kids You are welcome, but we don't really have anything to get on. Like, okay. I may or may not attend that event. And I'm very comfortable being like, yeah, I may, may or May not attend that event with, again, the caveat that there was some small numbers of events that were very much like you're going to this this is like if you don't go like this is going to create problems in the family what's

0:13:41 Thomas: Did the police tell you who tells you that that's that's

0:13:43 Tom: Going to create problems in the families what I mean like ex -in -laws like it was expected to do certain holidays together if you didn't it was going to be like youre going to fucking hear about it it's going to be a whole thing so easier to walk around outside with a kid than it would be to to deal with that bullshit easier actually to get rid of that whole family it turns out than to deal with that bullshit. But of times, Eli, I think it's on the person with kids, especially if your social circle doesn't have kids. Because my social circle, most of my friends do not have kids and are not going to have kids, so almost none of my Friends, and we're all in our 40s and 50s now, don't have Kids, and they're not going To have Kids. So when they have an event or a party or something like that, I'll just ask, like, hey, is this kid -friendly or not? And they're they're pretty good about being like, yeah, this is kid friendly. Bring the kids. I'm like, all right, awesome. And then that kind of sets up an expectation too, because it opens a dialogue that you can have back and forth about, oh shit, like I'm hosting something and they're going to bring kids. And then they typically do kind of make space for that. Or like, at least it allows you to open up a dialogue about like, okay, if it's kid friendly, is there going to be a space for my kid to take a nap? Maybe it's something they're just not thinking about because

0:13:53 Thomas: So weird for do that

0:14:48 Tom: It's been a long time since they've had kids or they don't have themselves. I think that's like a good way to to kind of broach that or bridge that gap

0:14:56 Eli: A lot of the time, my in experience, when someone, especially without kids, thinks that a thing is kid -friendly, they mean I own a television, which is really weird, because then not only do I have to expose myself as a non -screens weirdo, but I have have to expose my friend as a raised by screens weirdo which is always weird because I'll be like oh no I can't just put them in the other room with the tv and they'll belike oh no my parents used to do that with me all the time and i'llbe like yeah but you know how you have to fall asleep to bob's burgers and if you don't you have an anxiety attack and start sobbing and they're like I'm like cool aiming in a different direction I

0:15:30 Tom: I guess like how would you want him to have space for a little kid yeah

0:15:34 Eli: That is the question right and I I do think as I was listening to you speak right now it really is about drawing better lines minds it's and not like I asked this family member is this a kid friendly event the family member was just very insistent that we bring max too so I assumed that it would be a kid friendly event but I didn't say like hey is this the event that's going to be friendly for a four -year -old and look he didn't have a miserable time right it wasn't a funeral where we had to stay in silence right he was allowed to run around and she'd even bought bought him a toy that he could play with, but like he's four, he played with the toy and then he was like, great, what next? And I was like ah, four more hours is what's next to my son and he was like oh, let's fucking bail and I was yeah, let bail. Answer your question honestly, I think it's about having better boundaries for myself and actually being okay being like hey, I would really love to come to this event, I'm really sad that I'm going to miss it but I have a kid this isn't gonna be a kid friendly situation so we will not see you we're not gonna be there yeah

0:15:52 Thomas: Might assume yeah yeah

0:16:36 Tom: I think that's piece of it because like cecil doesn't have kids most of my yeah like I said most of My friends don't have Kids um think they've been been pretty good about making sure not to invite especially when the kids were really little I did not get invited to things and I still don't get invited things that like they're just they're just gonna they know that I've got you know all four kids on a certain day and like they want to go out to dinner and that's just not going to be an invite that I'm going to get you know that I otherwise probably would have gotten and I think there was a part of me that used to feel like kind kind of hurt by that. Be like, I still want to get, still want to get the invite.

0:17:09 Eli: Because you miss them I miss my friends like

0:17:12 Tom: Too, and I did like, when I first had kids, I recognized like, yeah, but I formed a friendship with Cecil that was between like, using him as an example, that is just between me and him. And if I decide to change my life and add more people into my life, doesn't create a different obligation for him to anything other than polite right doesn't mean that he has to like love all the same people I love or enjoy the company of all the same people. I enjoy the Company of like built a friendship that was just between he and I and like I think it's okay for him to be like yeah, that's our space for us to be friends and like, I you know, I don't want to spend that time a hundred percent hanging out with you and your kid. I that I think actually think that that's it's a perfectly fair thing for me to recognize about him too, is that it's not really fair for me to be like, Hey, because we're friends, you also love my kid.

0:18:03 Tom: Right. And I know that's not what you're saying, but I think that that's also a kind of backward expectation.

0:18:06 Thomas: We can acknowledge that for people who are not into kids it's really boring for them like that's fine I get it like but once again can't really just abandon them so it's like a question always the calculation yeah you

0:18:13 Eli: Of course yeah but also like there's always this thing too there's always the like I'm not a kid person and it's like yeah but that's my favorite person right and Tom were very casually at lunch, eating big hoagies, and I was like, you know, Tom, I don't really like Haley. After he was done squishing me into the smallest conceivable cube, he would probably explain to me that it doesn't matter how you feel about my favorite person. You are obligated to not voice that within a certain extent of politeness. And I I think the message that I have always received and this is again me indulging in invisible contracts which very bad about uh the notion that like yeah but if you love me you will recognize that this is my favorite person and like you will kind of sort of love my kid too right because it's in a thing that's like an unspoken contract no I and and I want to be clear I'm not saying that's okay I'm contract that I'm creating that now that you say it out loud, I recognize is unhealthy.

0:19:12 Thomas: These expectations interesting that's interesting I I do you have and this is me uh who does the like over the top or not even over the top but not just like oh yeah you know I don't have kids not really a kid a what person that's fine like totally fine the people are like ew gross kid I'm like oh don't need to ever talk to you again sorry don't needs to do it don't to talk very few people and to even be considered is a privilege and so the minutes of ew you can't you I'm like all right see you never dude

0:19:42 Eli: In the running. Just being

0:19:44 Tom: I've gotten I've super lucky I will say that even though most of the people in my life socially don't have kids I don't have any that have been hostile in that way like that hostility that you're describing or that like like where they just express a purposeful disinterest so that you know that they don't enjoy like thank god nobody's done that bullshit and like I will say cecil has been nothing but like an outstanding friend and to my kids.

0:20:12 Eli: Of course. Horse yeah oh

0:20:14 Tom: I also know he would strongly prefer to spend all of his time with adults. I know that about him, but I also Know that he does understand your point, Eli, that if he's going to be important in my life, he's got to make space for the people that I love in my Life. I that there's a balance that we have to find some way to strike, recognizing that you've established a relationship, but also these are the most important people in my life. Especially and most importantly, while the kids are young, it does become a way less of an issue as the kids get older, like because anti -kid people tend to chill the fuck out as kids get older with older kids what they mostly mean is they don't like babies that's what most of them mean

0:20:53 Eli: Yeah because it's a little person right well I let's mean be honest what they don't like is not being the center of attention every person who is like vehemently anti -kid is just that way because they deeply deeply need to be the center of all attention at all times myself included who was Because, and can I say, I still resent when you're like, she said such a funny thing. I'm like, let's fucking hear it. Let's hear it on air. Tell her to debate me on serious inquiries only. Joke off. Let's go.

0:21:14 Thomas: That was eli's reaction to baby. Eli so quickly, you know, had his own kid and moved on as though none of that ever happened. Like just instantly. And it was like, Tom, you're definitely interested in my baby.

0:21:30 Eli: And was like, Thomas, Thomas. Nintendo. With

0:21:35 Thomas: Yeah.

0:21:35 Eli: An M.

0:21:36 Thomas: And I was like yeah, that's, that is great.

0:21:36 Eli: I mean, don't you fucking

0:21:38 Thomas: I actually agree with that. Yeah, totally fine. Fine.

0:21:38 Eli: Love it? Isn't that the best? I've never felt any different way. And we're all cash money and chill here.

0:21:48 Thomas: Nintendo.

0:21:48 Eli: Yeah, no, it's a... Nintendo is fantastic. Yeah, it is. It's an interesting dynamic.

0:21:54 Thomas: We're don't see our friends as much anymore. I mean, there's a lot of reasons, obviously there's also, you Know, work stuff, but it's, but It's also like, I'm not getting there been

0:22:01 Eli: Guys all fucked at that slumber party. Made things a little weird, yeah.

0:22:05 Thomas: Awkward ever since. Well, what's been the most awkward is just Lydia tries to get it gone again so much you know and everybody's like oh man okay just

0:22:11 Eli: They come over for dinner and Lydia's serving everyone like hot chocolate and lavender tea. Stokes a roaring fireplace and changes into her pajamas. Yeah.

0:22:19 Thomas: The apron yeah yeah yeah

0:22:21 Eli: I get it. Fucking other people's wives? Rude. Dude rip into it as we say

0:22:22 Thomas: But it's it's also you you know have fewer you have fewer things in common you know over time you don't know and it's its hard because is like their lives continued on what they were doing and ours totally shifted and it's nobody's fault but often it's like well we're doing stuff we're taking our kids to fucking baseball we're do you know like we're a lot of stuff that's re not also coincidentally going and playing little league you know know like they

0:22:51 Eli: That's makes parent friends so much more valuable like I I know I've mentioned on the show before that I have a group of sort of dad friends that are based in the preschool uh

0:22:56 Thomas: Who with sleep and snuggle with

0:23:02 Eli: Who we snuggle with and I'm actually we're our next bro trip happens to line up with our next live show which means I'm missing the bro trip and I am genuinely so devastated it's I was so sad about it I had to be like hey man you're 37 and you have to get over this you're a grown -up and that's your job but yeah like so funny because like we are planning something among the parent friends and to be in that whatsapp chat where there are 97 conditionals because everyone understands like okay so whose kid doesn't eat square pizza we need to know that right now like for everyone to understand like who's taking who's taking naps and who's not taking nabs and who is doing this and who not doing that like I think part of what cements those friendships between parents because I always wondered what my parents friendships functioned right would not naturally have chosen a lot of the people they ended up being friends with because I was friends with those people's kids right what I recognize now is one of the reasons that you really come to like and love people that are your parent friends is they understand this experience that you're going through right and they like offer to help and offer to do stuff my one one of my buddies like sick everyone in his family got sick this week and so our little dad's chat was like hey you want us to grub up something you want to bring something over and like Like, doing parenthood without that support is something I think we've all experienced.

0:23:32 Thomas: Tom yeah that's so funny it's the only way I've ever done it yeah sounds

0:24:26 Eli: And now I'm just experiencing it with that support. And it's so much fucking easier and so much fuckin' better.

0:24:33 Thomas: But do you guys all get together and fuck though or rip

0:24:37 Eli: Mean, look, I'm open to it. You know, it's, uh, you gotta be careful. You gotta be fearful. Into it. Rip into what? That's the polite way to ask when you when you want to fuck your fellow dads guys if you're ever feeling like it we could um rip into it you know it'd be so weird if we ripped into it oh my god we would do it as like an ironic secret at first but then then we'd rip intoit and

0:24:38 Thomas: Into it yeah rip into it would it be so funny if we ripped into it right now yeah oh what if what but yeah but like yeah it's a joke yeah Yeah, sure.

0:25:01 Tom: Just do some ripping. So I guess I want to turn the question around a little bit on you eli so did you had kids did you make space for other people's kids did you already know this so

0:25:21 Eli: And that's the best part is I was such an unbearable asshole about all of this like as much as I like gently poke fun at the anti -kid people the worst stereotype of all of those things was me until the second I met anna bosnick literally the moment I met annabelle the moment beforehand if you had been been like eli do 10 super chill minutes on how annoying babies on planes are I would have been like allow me right

0:25:48 Tom: Like I was just thinking about like when you the opening to this conversation is it kind of comes back to like what sort of social contract responsibilities do people have if they're gonna try to engage with people that have kids and especially in almost exclusively like really young kids. You and know, like, I think too, that like people forget very quickly once their kids get older or are grown, how much just stuff and work and like logistics go into those kids. I don't know why we forget, but we do, we just forget. It's not, part it's of our daily life consideration. So we just sort of drop that. Mean, we can help people do that? Like, I think we can kind of help steer them in the right direction. And the reason I asked you is I thought that would be the answer. And it certainly would have been the answer for me. Like before I had kids, nobody in my life had kids. Certain that if I knew somebody that had kids, I would not have even known what space to make. I wouldn't have even thought like, oh, I should have a quiet, dark space because they're going to need to take

0:26:48 Tom: A nap. It literally wouldn't have occurred to me. I wonder wonder if there are things we can do so that like, not in this point of tension where it's like, oh, that person's an inconsiderate asshole. They're don't see all this work that I have to do. It's like well, but We're not helping them see that.

0:27:01 Thomas: I don't feel that way at all. Yeah.

0:27:03 Tom: You know what I mean? Like if we help good people, well -intentioned, loving people see what you need, I'd be willing to bet we'd get a lot less tension. Like would get mad when I was like walking around outside the restaurant and be like, does nobody fucking notice I'm out here not eating a food or walking around this restaurant? And the answer was like, no, they're busy talking to each other, enjoying their time. That's a normal thing. Like they're not thinking about you because you're not right in front of them. And that's how people work, whether that's fair or not fair, actually doesn't matter. What would have been better is if I said, Hey guys, I'll meet you at that restaurant and I'm going to have to do this in shifts so I get a chance to eat? Or

0:27:03 Thomas: Oh

0:27:39 Tom: Can we go to a different restaurant? That one I know is not going to be kid -friendly. But because we've kind of made that all really uncomfortable, I certainly as a young parent did not have those conversations. I wonder if there's a way we can give people advice on how to have good conversations to meet expectations so we can have our cake and eat it too.

0:27:56 Eli: Well yeah and and also to not have those secret contracts right not have the private expectation that someone's going to meet your needs but to have the bravery to ask for those things

0:28:06 Thomas: Man I'm I yeah I think that was directed at eli because I couldn't be yeah I I totally understand and and again I'm always looking for a reason not to socialize it's fantastic it couldn't be better was that you didn't consider that I have kids awesome man you guys have fun that sounds great yeah I

0:28:22 Eli: You never I

0:28:18 Tom: Well, kids are the ultimate get out of plans free card right like oh yeah so

0:28:26 Eli: Mean

0:28:26 Thomas: And I genuinely don't have hard feelings about like I genuinely just like kind of I I kind of meet people where they are at least someone isn't gonna change their lives for how I've changed my life, that's fine. I don't know. Like it is what it is to me. I don'T know.

0:28:38 Tom: What about kid free airplanes what are your thoughts on kid free airplanes

0:28:40 Thomas: I just don'T think it makes sense as a business. I think it would be.

0:28:43 Eli: The problem is right pretty rare exception the reasons to bring a baby on an airplane are pretty important to someone's life right sometimes it's medicine sometimes it's seeing a relative who might not be a for a while sometimes it's a parent's obligation to go to a place you can only fly to and they are stuck with that baby and that's why they're bringing a baby on an airplane and so the notion that we would limit those options for me strikes me as some real sci-fi bad guy mess right like I know that there are other flight options but by definition there's only so many airplanes that can take off for orlando in a given day and if just one of them is kid free and someone like needs to go to orlando for medical reasons and that's the best way for them to go there I would way rather live in a world where occasionally a baby starts screaming on an airplane than a world Where someone doesn't get access to the medical care slash visitation to a person who's about to not be with us anymore you know what I'm saying like that's the metric I'm doing in my head

0:30:00 Tom: I feel like even if it's just because they wanted to I think it's insanely fucked up like to have kid free airlines it's do feel like kids are this um we don't think of them very often socially as fully human we sort of think of dem as this class of differently human people and we're just like well we can we can discriminate against them like in kind of a lot of really important ways like

0:30:21 Thomas: I don't know, man. Have you heard Remy? Uh, my change your tune.

0:30:23 Tom: Yeah yeah like

0:30:24 Eli: It's would be like having old people free airplanes which would be equally awesome

0:30:28 Thomas: Awesome.

0:30:28 Tom: It black people free airplanes so the whites could be more comfortable right what's the difference fucking weird

0:30:35 Thomas: Remy, uh, decibels, decibels is the difference. No, I, think I it just doesn't make any sense from airlines are already so fucked all the time anyway they're always like barely getting along limiting in any way their customer base for any flight is not going to work and also I just think that like nowadays there's the fucking noise canceling headphones man they they're not going fix it if a baby's like right next to you screaming but like I don't know they come pretty close like put some music on in your fucking in headphones no it's it you're fine Hmm.

0:31:04 Eli: I tell you guys I have good airplane kid right so So there is no greater sexual pleasure in my life than when me and Max sit down on an airplane and I get the look, right? It's always from an old lady, right, and she's always like humble, grumble, mumble, mumble and then he's fucking and then at the end she always gets over and he was so amazing. I'm like, he was, he has autism, thank you, it's actually fantastic. Yeah, he fucking rules, you're welcome. He's better than your husband who kept reading Fox News out loud under his breath. Thank you.

0:31:40 Eli: Where are my old people free airplanes when you want them? So gentlemen, this actually reminds me of a recent story. So I'm glad you brought this up when we were discussing the episode. Tom was like, hey, can we talk about kid -free airplanes? And I was like oh, because I have a story. So I was recently in Las Vegas. I'm about to be in Las Vega again because I did bad things in a past life. But I was in Las Vegas for a friend's bachelorette party. And we had a good time but I flew there and I flew back and there was a mom and two very young kids on my plane and was going through what I think everyone pictures when they want a kid free airplane she had a kid about max's age who had a screen that wasn't working like a tablet that wasn'T working and so just every so often was having a temper tantrum about that She also had an incredibly young child in a, like, car seat on her right side that would occasionally just start screaming because it's that age of baby. And she was sort of juggling the things. And I had so much empathy for her. Like, and again, saying this as completely the douchebag who would have been like, Tom, here's the thing about kid -free airplanes. I was an anti-breastfeeding in public guy. That's how bad my takes were. Absolutely.

0:32:53 Eli: I had this bit.

0:32:53 Thomas: What is wrong with you? There's no good argument for that.

0:32:57 Eli: Of course not. Of course not. Because I was empathy -less and full of garbage thoughts.

0:33:03 Thomas: Could have even taken in the pervert tact and just been like, yeah, I like boobs being out. Just do.

0:33:07 Eli: Was the bit. The bit was like, so can I get your tits out whenever I feel like it? Anyways,

0:33:11 Thomas: Oh no, that's not. No, that's not. That's not what I was saying.

0:33:12 Tom: That's a terrible, terrible

0:33:14 Eli: An I awesome guy with awesome takes, everybody.

0:33:14 Tom: Take. Don't. Jesus Christ.

0:33:14 Thomas: That's real bad.

0:33:19 Eli: Just say it's I know when I started recording me, it wasn't the best time, but it was still better when I could have started being recorded. Oh you live you learn anyway my point is like I had nothing but empathy for this woman right at one point like one of the kids like was literally screaming about the tablet I recognized what was wrong because they she was trying to get him on the wi-fi she kept clicking him on but then she didn't realize you had to do the thing where you like access it on the screen and I was like hey I fly all the time can I help and like I got her kid on the ipad for nothing but but here's the horrifying twist to the story you guys ready for the horrifying twist at the end of the story worse Worse, Thomas. It's so much worse. We're getting off the plane and from a couple of rows back, this guy stands up and starts to walk for them and says, so how was the flight? And I realize her husband has been like three rows behind her doing no child care the

0:33:54 Thomas: She kidnapped the kid. It wasn't her kid. Worse. Oh no. Oh God. Oh wow.

0:34:11 Tom: Wait, what? No. no what

0:34:18 Eli: Entire time the bullshit was coming from inside the house. I gasped I audibly gasped with the realization oh

0:34:25 Tom: My god right

0:34:27 Thomas: I did you call it out I feel like you have that level of no chill maybe

0:34:33 Eli: I would have I absolutely and it was happening too fast I was just like oh this guy because at first I was worried literally this is what the thoughts were in my head he came forward he was like how was the flight she was like awful he kept screaming she couldn't get on the ipad and he was like oh yeah and I was like oh my first thought was oh this is another passenger here to like hassle this mom about the noise the kids were making and so I was was like hey don't be a jerk and then he was cool about it and then he like grabbed her bag and started to walk and I was like oh my god oh god no no I was having an old boy moment just vomiting up all the octopus

0:34:51 Thomas: You're gonna defend her sir yeah that's what happened when the dad hit his kid around you can't react in time it's like wow and then

0:35:11 Tom: Holy shit

0:35:12 Eli: I just I just turned to him and I'm like hey man you're not allowed to be a bad dad in here I don't know if you're actually not allowed to not allowed to do that here you're supposed to sit up here with the the kids yeah the

0:35:15 Thomas: Usually you're not allowed how to do that here. God, that's

0:35:19 Tom: Jesus jesus christ three rows back he's here he hears a screaming baby and he doesn't even know it's his

0:35:22 Thomas: Awful.

0:35:25 Eli: Whole time wailing she's walking up and down the aisles with him yep

0:35:26 Thomas: And it's not a tiny infant. Yeah.

0:35:30 Tom: Dude you know what that means that means he's the one that had the noise canceling headsets on so So he didn't have to hear his own kid because otherwise, Oh my God. Oh yeah. It sounds hard.

0:35:36 Eli: Just eating a fucking tapas box while his wife is watching fucking minions four while his life is in hell

0:35:48 Thomas: That is nuts. I mean, even the best argument is if it's just a total breastfeeding infant, like honestly, usually they got to stay with mom. If it's like, cause know, they'll scream and the way to sue them is pop out the boob. And that is usually still, you're going to get some time with it. I mean, unless it's like a 45 minute flight, like you're gonna get some Timeware as a dad, you can, but if you're talking a walking child, that unacceptable, unacceptable.

0:36:13 Tom: Jesus Christ.

0:36:10 Eli: There's a six -hour flight it's a five -hour ride flight a walking speaking a child who I had several conversations with yeah I did

0:36:21 Thomas: That child is like, wow, I have a dad now. He's that guy that was magic

0:36:25 Tom: I've never had a man talk to me before.

0:36:26 Eli: Did so many more interactions with this child I did multiple magic tricks for this child multiple multiple

0:36:30 Thomas: Tricks. Yeah, you did baby. Well, you're now a father or you're again, a father. Sorry. Here's double father

0:36:34 Tom: See, and if we had, if we, if we were to talk to him, if we could have had airlines that kids weren't allowed in, the dad could have flown that airline and had a much nicer experience.

0:36:39 Eli: That dad could have flown that airline and the mom could have flown by herself yeah it would have been great finally

0:36:44 Thomas: Or just put him with the kid and let her do it and just see how he does for that time that would be that'd be interesting I

0:36:50 Tom: Funny to pose post that question online because you get like really aggressive vociferous people being like no there should be kid free airlines and it's like okay what about kid free buses kid what are their spaces kid free restaurants and they're like yes kid free restaurants kid free buses kid

0:37:06 Thomas: Can't think of anything I care about let would you guys be really offended if they had kid free airplay I wouldn't give a shit either way I don't know yeah

0:37:13 Tom: I think it would be a terrible idea yeah I don't I don't think we should be able to discriminate against people based on their age. Like, like something we should just not decide to do.

0:37:21 Thomas: The rule is uh no screamy things allowed there it's not about age it's about decibels if they scream are they screaming

0:37:29 Tom: Or people with certain people

0:37:26 Eli: So you are eliminating old people then yeah have you ever met an old person oh

0:37:30 Tom: With disabilities or

0:37:32 Thomas: People who are gonna fucking scream at a a flight attendant yeah sure rules are rules man get off the plane oh

0:37:35 Tom: But yeah, no, we all have to recognize like, this you is a stage of human development. We all just have to deal with it. A silent plane.

0:37:41 Eli: A plane you know like the quiet car in a train you guys ever go to one of those doesn't

0:37:48 Thomas: Sounds allowed

0:37:49 Tom: Now it might be a silent plane sounds good. Like a silent how about a no smells plane though can we get a plane where nobody's allowed to you can't wear cologne you

0:37:56 Thomas: Hundred percent

0:37:52 Eli: That sound great oh great tom do you want to apologize now or just want to you want wait until the next episode

0:38:01 Tom: Cannot wear cologne you cannot wear fucking perfume you cannot get out like your fucking lavender wipes and like scrub the seat down

0:38:06 Thomas: Tom why are we the same person it's so bad I can't take it oh

0:38:11 Tom: It that are like sensitive and have migraine problems like basically get onto like a migraine bus that is what a an airplane is it's just a migrain bus and it's the fucking worse I just don't do that it's an easy thing to not do

0:38:18 Thomas: It's the worst it's the worst yep

0:38:24 Eli: Witnessed missed this interaction once and I think about it like three times a day well it was a three row and I'm in an exit row right and I lie they're like can you lift 100 pounds and I was like absolutely I can't um on the end and then there's a guy and a lady sitting next to him and she starts to spray body spray on herself like the really like the axe for ladies and

0:38:35 Thomas: You can oh no you would hear me go no you can't

0:38:49 Tom: She should be thrown off the fucking airplane once it reaches the sky

0:38:53 Eli: He and goes I'm I'm so sorry like I don't want to be this guy actually pretty severe allergies do you mind not doing that and she says I was actually trying to get your smell out of my nose and then the three of us sat I I you know how tom thinks people can't tell when he's angry this guy was like I'm hiding it super good I he was just rippling with rage at one point during the flight I wanted to turn to him and be like hey man I know know you're picturing murdering the lady next to us and I'm fully in support of that but it's your at heat the heat you are giving off from your rage fire is boiling my tapas box I'm trying to enjoy these little olives in a bag and they came out all hot because of your anger you

0:38:56 Thomas: Do that here yeah oh wow wow Wow.

0:39:34 Tom: We got we were flying somewhere years ago and like the lady right behind hayley got out these like disinfecting lavender scented wipes and like wiped down her tray table and her her seat just like basically is such a strong scent it is such an intensely strong scent. It was absolutely horrid and Haley got into it with her of course because it was like well this I'm sitting there like this now going to happen. Now we're going to maybe get off kicked this flight.

0:40:02 Thomas: It is so hard because you can't communicate that to people who don't get it. And going to start lying and saying I have a migraine issue. I don't know what my issue is. It just is hell. And it's funny because it seems to be, well, it seems to be like genetic. Like me and my brother have the same weird, there's like a weird smell to certain body sprays that somehow only we're bothered by. I it's just hell. Like it just, it's absolutely hell, but you can't explain like to the people who don't get it. It's There's impossible to explain. You're just like, just don't just don' t do it.

0:40:13 Tom: That's fucking rude. Like one of those things like dude I'm right there like smells no don't bother me at all but like all I have to do is be like oh so smells bother you okay that makes sense well

0:40:42 Thomas: Well, Well, further smells might bother the average plane traveler. That's what that we need.

0:40:42 Eli: Well not passionate about this smell yeah

0:40:48 Tom: Could just recognize though like is what I'm saying that like and I'm not saying you but like it just makes me crazy and be like why that doesn't bother me and it's like yeah but I bothers them and they said it so now you know it you're not them them like there I assume that other people have different sensory fucking experiences than me I've never understood it's like can you not at all put yourself in someone else's shoes is that literally just got

0:41:04 Thomas: So anyway, this is our way of saying, Eli, you got to shower more than once a week. You have to. I'm sorry, man.

0:41:15 Tom: You're gonna get on the airplane you got to be showered

0:41:17 Eli: You you gotta stick your face in my pit and get a migraine and then I'll do it you've done that you've ridden in my car it's essentially the same thing all right gentlemen before we go why did Pavlov have such great hair because he conditioned it I

0:41:20 Thomas: Fuck.

0:41:24 Tom: That's yeah what's the difference

0:41:40 Thomas: Oh

0:41:41 Tom: That's good actually I

0:41:46 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, tom smith who also wrote and recorded the intro music which is used with his permission this podcast is a production of daddy issues llc copyright 2022 all rights reserved

0:42:26 Thomas: Real you can't mute that thing like you gotta be able to mute the it's during when you're talking so you gotta repeat the

0:42:28 Tom: I'm trying. I do

0:42:27 Eli: I thought you were talking about kids that was very funny

0:42:33 Thomas: Mute that fucking kid no

0:42:34 Tom: Had a point. I was going to try to expand on the topic.

0:42:36 Eli: Then I started talking about fucking my dad friends and you got weird why do you get weird it's because you long for it tom you're slowly coming over Look at your thumb right now. You see that ring that just appeared there?

0:42:39 Tom: And I got all fucking distracted.

0:42:47 Eli: We're getting slowly but surely pulled into the poly cult.

0:42:47 Tom: Jesus Christ, no. Fuck me.

0:42:52 Eli: I'm so excited for 100 episodes from now. So Hurley's metamor is moving in. I'm really excited.

0:42:52 Tom: Don't fuck me, actually. No. Oh, my

0:42:59 Eli: Josh is such a great guy.