DOD68: Secrets

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:29 Tom: To Dear Old Dads, the podcast that zipped its lips. I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:34 Thomas: Hi. I feel, I don't like, worried about that intro, I don't know what that means. Yeah.

0:00:40 Eli: Yeah, I was gonna say, I - I was like, oh, we should do the thing where we turn it on Tom and be like, alright, this episode's about what to do when your chids are molested, so...

0:00:45 Thomas: Yeah. Just said something really fucking racist and then he's like, you better not tell anyone.

0:00:55 Tom: You never, what? No. God damn it. That is not fucking...

0:00:59 Eli: He ranked the races, like, for his child story last week, for like an hour. We... but

0:00:59 Thomas: The podcast

0:01:04 Tom: That's just I I just I disagreed with your ranking no

0:01:08 Thomas: Like, welcome, Dear Old Dads, the podcast. I sure hope nothing bad happens to any of yous that are in

0:01:11 Eli: But if If we wanted it to debunk a ranking of the races, does, does anyone have a new podcast where we might be able to debunk such a thing. Yeah.

0:01:20 Tom: Oh

0:01:21 Thomas: You're too kind. Yeah. I know, I realized I didn't tell anyone what it was last time, but that was fun, I was more doing a bit, I thought it was funny. Um, no, I appreciate that, I, I, uh, split off Serious Inquiries Only into now two things because I was trying to do too much on that show, and now it's, I'm so excited about this idea because now that one gets to solely focus on expert interviews, which is going to be, it's almost like I got two, two new shows.

I'm really excited. Um, even though it's just doing the things I already did, but in two places. And then the other one is called Where There's Woke, and it's going to be like a, you know, a You're Wrong About, or If Books Could Kill style kind of debunking show more about these fake woke controversies that every single time I look into them, they're completely fucking bullshit every time. But, but like the whole world goes for it.

The whole, every, but even people center left go for these fake stories. And I just thought, like, like somebody needs to be out there doing more to debunk them. And I'm excited to do it.

0:02:12 Eli: And to clarify, they're the, like, wokeness gone mad, mortal panic stories? So, like, uh, you know, these college kids took over their dorm and killed a janitor because they served, served Chinese food at the restaurant next door, or stuff like the green Eminem isn't fuckable enough, uh,

0:02:14 Thomas: So yes, yes.

0:02:30 Thomas: Be some campus thing where like a student complained about some racism in a teacher and that teacher was fired. Their life was ruined. And then you'll investigate it. And it's like, no, the student was ridiculed out of like, they had to leave the school and the teacher got like a conversation. Conversation. Yeah. And then, yeah, that's what it'll always be. And then they'll get, the teacher will get like an, the teacher will Get like a New York times profile. I was, it was so hard. It was harrowing. Yeah, no, I actually got promoted. I have a better job now. I make more money, but like you should have seen these mean tweets that these kids sent at me. And meanwhile the student will be like depressed and out of the, like expelled. Like they had to leave. It's, it's almost always that. And it's so sad.

0:02:45 Eli: Award right

0:02:50 Tom: So why do you hate academic freedom though

0:02:54 Eli: Right.

0:03:12 Eli: After. I was doxxed by Breitbart. Bunch of people killed got together and burned my dad's bodega to the ground. But you know, I did complain that that teacher made all of the people of different races stand up, and he said all the slurs he could think of for each of us.

0:03:14 Thomas: And And yes, God, it's so bad. God, I bet you that's a real one. Like that's probably a real one. See.

0:03:31 Eli: Always a real one. I'm, I'm very excited for it. I love your research on your shows, but Thomas, Tom, you know the only thing worse than racism, that's right, it's the auto ads that fill this podcast. Do I still only get the one for the children's cancer charity? Absolutely, I do, because because they have heard what I say about them. But if you want to avoid racism and our auto-ads, you can sign up to support this show over at patreon.com/dearolddads. Get a commercial-free version of every episode. You also get a bonus story on every show. You got a twofer last time. You got twofer. You got little Tom story about his kids, little Thomas story about his kids. So that's a two -fer on last week's episode. It out once more, patreon.com/dearolddads and check out Thomas's new show, Where There's Woke, that's

0:03:31 Thomas: Yeah.

0:03:49 Tom: So, Thomas, for

0:04:06 Thomas: Or two. Yeah.

0:04:23 Thomas: Before we get going on the show, I do have one little minor announcement that my boy Remy is six months old now. He's, I just saw the calendar popped up. He's got, he's at, yeah,

0:04:30 Tom: Damn. And he's on his second set of dentures at this point, right?

0:04:35 Eli: Yeah. Yeah.

0:04:35 Thomas: He slowed down in the chopper department. He got the first two immediately. And then he, now he's got his, um, he's got one of his upper teeth. Um, and boy, they, they, yeah.

0:04:45 Tom: Wisdom teeth.

0:04:46 Thomas: Yeah. Molars. It's fucking weird. But, uh, yeah six, but can you believe it? Half a year with that boy.

0:04:44 Eli: Six months and You know what that means. If you're a regular listener to the show, you know, it's time for the Smiths to get pregnant again.

0:04:52 Thomas: No, we have at least three more months at Come on.

0:05:03 Eli: You think you have at least three more months there, Raw Dog McGee. This is why you keep having kids.

0:05:09 Thomas: Yeah. It's three more months until we need to start doing any birth control, right? Isn't it?

0:05:12 Eli: No, you got to wait until Remy sees his shadow and then your daddy's got to wrap it to tap it.

0:05:20 Tom: I wanted to talk to you guys, but maybe I'll, maybe I'll tell you a story about, um, I want to talk about secrets. Um, I wanted, I'm very curious, um, secrets are an interesting topic I think in raising our kids and how our kids relate to us, and also, um, within, like, relationships, um, you know, our intimate relationships. But I thought I would lead off off by telling you a crazy story about when I grew up and secrets.

0:05:25 Thomas: Hmm. Oh.

0:05:42 Tom: So, Because, because, everyone loves this, so, um, So,

0:05:42 Thomas: Oh, God. What? Fresh. Fucking hell.

0:05:45 Eli: Tom, does this involve your mom? Because I need to, I'm going to, I'm gonna double up on my meds before we do this one.

0:05:46 Thomas: Jesus. How many bodies Tom, how many but where Yeah. Yeah.

0:05:52 Tom: I don't think this is that bad, but it's not as maybe it's not great, I don't know. So, was growing up, you know, Lynn came over, my, as my dad's girlfriend, long-term girlfriend, 40 plus. She would come over one day a week on the weekend, either Saturday or Sunday, whichever they could, you know, wrangle between themselves. And Lynn had very strict and weird kind of personal rules for behavior and kind of like what was acceptable and what was unacceptable. And my dad had equally kind of strange rules for kind of what behaviors were acceptable and unacceptable.

And so my dad had this rule, this is a very minor thing, but like, my dad has this rule that he never cooked on Fridays, he would say, I worked all damn week, I cooked all damn weak, I don't cook on Friday. So on Friday, we would get takeout, or you know, something would, you, he just wouldn't cook, whatever it was we were going to eat, he would not cook it.

So he might order a pizza, we might, you know, get takeout, or you know, Chinese food, or whatever, but he was not going to cook on Friday. And Lynn thought this was a terrible idea that he did this, he, she, for whatever reason, hated this, I think maybe she thought it was like a waste of money, she's just notoriously fairly frugal, um, so we would make up, she would come on

0:05:53 Eli: No,

0:05:55 Thomas: Oh, yeah, sure. Oh

0:07:07 Tom: The weekend and she would ask these kind of like weird questions, she was kind of an, she's an odd duck, so she would comes over and she, she would be like, so what'd you guys? Yeah, she's a very strange dude.

0:07:07 Thomas: My God. No.

0:07:15 Eli: The lady who strip searched your room? No, you're saying she was not

0:07:17 Tom: Yeah, I know. I know she would come over and she would ask, like, you know, so what'd your guys have for dinner last night? And she if she was Saturday, you'd get this like kick under the table, you know, from dad.

0:07:29 Thomas: Jesus.

0:07:29 Tom: And then sort of there would be this like sideways glance, you know, for the three of us, you know, see who's going to answer. And then one of us would answer and be like. Oh, we had a masticoli and meatballs, you know, whatever. Just make something up. And then everybody, all right, good. We dodged it, you know, because you knew that it was a secret that dad didn't cook on Friday. It was a stupid, stupid fucking secret, but it was a secret. And we got like weirdly good at lying because like we had, you know, decades and decades of practice of, of these little sort of like white lies that kind of kept the peace in this relationship that they had.

0:08:03 Eli: I'm picturing the Reservoir Dogs mirror lying scene, but it's Tom and his dad instead of Tim Roth and I

0:08:09 Thomas: I'm picturing this being the worst fucking thing. Don't do this. This is a bad family dynamic.

0:08:14 Eli: Think

0:08:13 Tom: No, this is terrible, no, no, this, this, this was not

0:08:16 Eli: That's where Tom's going with this. Let me say, Tom, if your hot take at the end of this is like, so if you want to train your kids to stare a police officer in the eye,

0:08:17 Tom: Yeah,

0:08:17 Thomas: Yeah.

0:08:24 Tom: No, no, I, I don't think that this was overall a net good, don't get me wrong, I don't think this was great, but it has gotten me to think a little bit recently, um, about secrets. And a related sort of story is, Aislinn recently told us some news. It was personal news of hers, so I don't want to relay it here. But she told us some news, and it's neither good nor bad, but it's important to her. And we only found out about it because we overheard a conversation between her and her friend, her and our little friend.

0:08:47 Eli: She's pregnant, you're

0:08:58 Tom: And This would be important news for somebody to share in a family. And we were like, hey, what's with the secrets? But she is just by nature a very secretive person, so it kind of got me to thinking about secrets and about what your thoughts are in having secrets, keeping secrets, um, secrets between you and your kids, secrets that like you hold maybe with other people that you don't share with your spouses, and just kind of what your thoughts are on on those topics with secrets, because I think it's, I think everybody kind approaches it a little bit differently. Oh.

0:08:56 Thomas: Okay. Okay, yeah.

0:09:32 Thomas: Well, I want to just just take one second to, uh, plug again, that SIO about, um, preventing child sex abuse and this is no,

0:09:39 Eli: Gonna plug Where there's woke again, and I was like, hey, man, hey, man, out of episode, you gotta fucking stop.

0:09:40 Tom: That's

0:09:46 Thomas: No, the first place my mind went to, and I'm sure a lot of parents listening was, Oh, we tell our young kids, they can't keep secrets. That's a common, you know, thing to make sure like, you don't want some abusive person telling them to keep a secret. And, uh, I just wanted to relay that there's some good stuff in that episode. Um, one problem is often kids do want to do little secrets or like, you will know have gotten something for your wife and, your kids.

And it's like, like, oh, make sure it's a secret, but like, what, what Dr. Alan Smirbeck said on that was maybe a word to use is surprise instead, so when you go get your wife like a gift and they can't tell, just make sure to use the wording surprise, oh it's surprise, because that's something, yeah, That's something that, like, it's a secret for a bit and then it comes out, and so that's a good way, because it's, it's very important, like, if you give the kids the message like never keep secrets and then you accidentally are like, oh, this is a secret from mom, don't tell her, they're gonna be fucking confused, and you don't want them to, like, you up that whole don't keep secrets of strangers things and you can also say we don't keeps secrets about anyone's body, um, help them, um

0:10:24 Tom: Good. Yeah, right. So That's tough, though. Like, some people are just naturally, what, what I'm encountering in my household with the kids, for example, is some of our kids are just secret keepers by nature, they're like deeply private. Like they're like, like Aislinn is a great example, but I think Eamon is the same way, too. Like, just really, really fucking private. Like, they do not, it's not, it's not that we have any weirdness around bodies or relationships or anything else in our house, because the older kids are very comfortable telling us everything about their lives and who they are. But I think some people just seem to have a natural reticence to share personal information.

0:11:23 Thomas: Don't Say person who said this, kids would, if they want to ask you about their, their mom, they'd have to pry It out of your cold Dead body, or whatever the hell that was, yeah.

0:11:28 Tom: And Yeah, yeah. My relation. Yeah. My my my former relationship would would never be shared. Yeah. So, yeah, so I just think it's there's like some of that that's just, I think, inborn into who we are. Aislinn's been a secret keeper her whole life. Um, is very young. He's only nine, but like, he doesn't want to share his feelings with people. Like he just doesn't want to articulate those things. And so like, I think that that's, well, it's good advice to tell him, Hey, we're not going to have these secrets. You can't know if they're holding them or not.

0:11:30 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Well.

0:11:31 Eli: Yeah.

0:11:58 Tom: You know what I mean? Like, so

0:11:58 Thomas: That's A, that's More of A younger kid thing, I don't think you have to worry, you know, like, hopefully by That age That's Not a problem. Yeah, not

0:11:59 Tom: Right.

0:12:02 Eli: With A Teenager We Don't keep secrets. Uh, but yeah, no, I, I have been very clear about this, that I think secrets are insane, insane, like the notion, but I also understand that it's very important for developmental psychology that kids feel the autonomy of secrets, which is why I'd like to introduce, once again, spying on your kids. You're smarter than them because they're children.

0:12:28 Thomas: Not this, Tom You get To Be the Less Insane Person on the show now, how do you feel? Yeah.

0:12:37 Eli: Follow me on my logic. And I know I've already explained this a little bit in my, you should spy on your kid's phone episode, uh, of my, best if I may Which Is This

0:12:45 Thomas: Well That's like A year Old, you could almost go through it again, I bet a bunch of people

0:12:48 Eli: Yeah, here's all I'm saying, okay, secrets demonstrably bad, there's nothing good about a child having a secret from their parent, not a single good thing, Assuming The Parent

0:12:58 Tom: Wait a minute. Like what age? Hold on. What what are you defining as child?

0:13:00 Eli: Any

0:13:00 Thomas: Yeah Like I Don't Want to know What they're whacking Off To No What If They Have A Secret Porn Mag stash.

0:13:01 Eli: Any Age 40 And 70 I I I, it is literally, absolutely,

0:13:04 Tom: Oh, totally disagree. OK. All right. We are we already wildly disagree.

0:13:08 Thomas: I don't want to know about that.

0:13:09 Eli: It is literally better for you to watch your kid jerk off than for them, for them to, for it to be a secret about what they, I'm

0:13:14 Thomas: Okay. You're just doing this for Tom to make him feel less pressure to always be

0:13:19 Eli: Not, I don't know. I'm, I, I am not, let me, let me lay out my argument, okay? Assuming you're a good parent, right? And a lot of people, when I said the phone thing, they were like, what about bad parents? I'm not talking to bad parents on this show.

0:13:21 Thomas: The insane one. Okay? Yeah.

0:13:22 Tom: That is bonkers.

0:13:33 Eli: I'm talking about Me, who is the best parent? When you're a good parent, you love your child more than anything and you want what is best for them, which means there is no thing that could be going on in their life where you are not on their side wanting the best for themselves. The only difference between your thoughts and their thoughts is that you're way, way smarter and more mature than them, so the only reason for them to have a secret is that some person should be handling a problem by themselves, cells and dumber, that's the only reason for their you

0:13:31 Thomas: Yeah. It's hard to... Yeah. Yeah. Okay, or it's not a problem. Maybe it's just they want to have a little bit of autonomy.

0:14:08 Tom: Or they value their privacy.

0:14:10 Thomas: Yeah.

0:14:10 Eli: Don't know you don's know if it's a problem if you don know it if you know everything you know whether or not it's a problem

0:14:10 Thomas: Oh,

0:14:10 Tom: Yeah. Oh, like part. It says why I'm glad we're doing this episode. Part of one of the most important developmental stages in a kid's life revolves around their autonomy and privacy, which means that they have to have the ability.

0:14:19 Thomas: Boy. Yeah, which

0:14:30 Eli: I agree

0:14:32 Thomas: Is why Eli makes them think they have autonomy and privacy. Haven't seen.

0:14:35 Eli: It's No, exactly right. Tom, I'm right on board with you, it is important for children to believe that they have autonomy and privacy, autonomy and privacy themselves, entirely unrelated related to that development.

0:14:37 Thomas: Yeah.

0:14:48 Thomas: Eli is just going to Truman

0:14:45 Tom: Oh, my God.

0:14:49 Thomas: Show his son. It'll be a fake town. It's going to be Truman show. It'd be a fit. There'll be like, yeah, Eli's going to hire a whole like team of act. He'll never.

0:14:54 Tom: This is terrific.

0:14:56 Eli: I Would If You think I wouldn't Truman show my son? You have not fucking met

0:15:01 Thomas: No, I do think he would show your son.

0:15:02 Tom: I 100 % believe you'll Truman show

0:15:05 Thomas: He might've already done it.

0:15:05 Tom: Your son. There is No, One

0:15:06 Thomas: Tom, are we part of it?

0:15:06 Tom: No one listening to this thinks are

0:15:08 Thomas: Yeah. Shit. Tom. Are we in it? Are we, are we only in his shit?

0:15:03 Eli: Me. I Would One Yeah,

0:15:09 Tom: We executive producers or are we just starring that is

0:15:13 Eli: Yeah, I

0:15:13 Thomas: Do I even exist, Eli, or am I just an AI you made for your kid to have like a life so

0:15:18 Eli: Will I, will ChatGPT his entire online class, he'll just be like, yeah, no, everyone thinks I'm really cool, and I'll be like, that's right, they do, and hey, if you want to have any secret conversations with Unit 111, I mean Ashley, that's totally fine by me, and mom, we, we respect your autonomy. Look, I agree, Tom, I disagree with you that autonomy is an incredibly important developmental step, but it is a one-way street. It does not matter if it's actually happening.

0:15:48 Tom: I love you that is bonkers as fuck that is so fucking bonkers, like you would, you would violate their trust and risk being found out to to be somebody that is that unsafe for them that has violated their trust, no, you would not you say this because Max is a baby

0:15:48 Thomas: The illusion of autonomy is yeah yeah

0:16:00 Eli: One million percent. One million % and I'll say what I say on the cell

0:15:58 Thomas: I know I think he would I believe him I believe them I believe em

0:16:06 Tom: No no okay

0:16:06 Eli: Phone. Yeah, I will 100% do it. I will tell you because I am prepared for the day. Max is old enough that he will listen to this episode and the cellphone episode and he'll go, Dad, did you, did you actually ever like hack my phone and my internet stuff, and I'll be like, boy, oh, I would never ever do that to you, I was just doing a bit on the air, and if he ever catches me he's gonna be like, you fucking hacked my internet, and I'm gonna be like, absolutely, man, I'm super sorry, you take all the time you need in your unmolested life to get over that, and then come on back to Daddy Town, right, I got one job which is to stop your train on the way to Touchberg and I did it by any fucking means necessary, General Patent, baby General fucking Patent

0:16:49 Tom: All right, but but I will, I will tell you because I had an experience, I know that you're goofing around a little bit and I know you're also not, but like I will say, as somebody who's been spied on as a kid by his parents, so I I've told this story before, but my my parents went through a custody battle when I was in fourth, fifth grade, um, and it was a fairly contentious custody battle, um, and maybe I didn't tell this, but my parents went through a pretty contentious custody battle, and my mom was a inveterate liar, like she just constantly made up all these crazy stories and so my dad, I know, and

0:16:57 Thomas: He's not oh god. God. Yeah.

0:17:24 Thomas: No.

0:17:27 Eli: Okay

0:17:28 Tom: So I mean she would call us, um, once every whenever, you know, once a week or every other week, whenever she, she called, so she would call on this sort of semi-regular basis, and my dad, I found out, had rigged up, because the 80s, like, he had rigged up an answering machine and he would tape our phone calls with our mom because they were going through this custody battle, and mom would say all kinds of crazy bonkers shit, and he would have to have some record of the crazy bonker shit that she said. And I don't blame him for that. But I will tell you that when I found that answering machine, which I found like in fourth or fifth grade in the middle of it, I was so furious that my privacy and my my my that I had been violated in this way that I took that answering machine to the garage and I smashed it and then I grabbed all the phone wires and I ripped them out of the wall. I have never been so mad at somebody in my life at that age. Yeah.

0:17:52 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:18:20 Thomas: Now, Tom, if instead of just probably what would likely be more or less innocent conversations with your mom, although it is your mom. So there's probably no such thing. But like imagine instead of that, it was the future. And it's not an answering machine. Listen to that. It's a fucking digital spy watching every single porn search you do as a 13 year old kid, you know, or something like that, like you think you'll be super cool with that

0:18:31 Tom: No they were not yeah it it absolutely damaged my relationship with my father, like I did not trust my dad for years after that because and and I look, I had to look back as an adult who went through a similar experience and say, I get it, and I would probably do it, but I will tell you that like it it did, it did damage, like serious long-term damage, to my trust of my dad for years, like we were, we immediately were not close and I immediately became more of a sneak and I immediately became, I, I hid more stuff, I had less consequential stuff, I hid stuff just for the sake of hiding stuff because I was so violated. My trust had been so violated that I had decided, well, now you don't get to know anything and I will fucking make sure you don't know anything. And I did for many, many, many years. I mean, 10 plus years.

0:19:09 Eli: But absolutely yeah

0:19:15 Thomas: Because

0:19:38 Eli: No, I mean getting caught is always hard, um, but here's, let me retell that story from the Bosnician perspective, which is that your dad managed to keep you away from the snapping turtle demon by violating your privacy and even though you were mad at the time, you as an adult now realize your dad was doing it to protect you, because he slam-a-jam-a rocked that invasion of privacy and kept you away from Voldemort to Electric Boogaloo I

0:19:50 Thomas: He

0:19:52 Tom: Yep.

0:20:08 Tom: But don't you think that there's gotta be a middle ground where kids can have some amount amount of real secrets, I mean like, would you let Max lock his door, why are

0:20:17 Eli: Absolutely you, you know why because I've got a fuck, oh, you beat me to it, Thomas, you beat me to it

0:20:19 Thomas: Has a camera in there what is what relevance is a lock door in the Bosnick household, nothing, nothing, you might

0:20:24 Tom: My god I

0:20:26 Eli: It's exactly, it's the illusion of pri again, I'm not against the illusion

0:20:34 Thomas: As well have said, but will you let him do the mime thing where he pretends he's in a box like a mime, yeah, sure, fucking knock yourself out, Max, I know it's great you can really lean into it yeah

0:20:45 Tom: This, I'm not the crazy person right now this is my favorite episode we've ever done, oh, it says I'm just basking in this right now oh

0:20:48 Thomas: Yeah

0:20:52 Eli: So Let me bring in my own very reasonable take, right? So like when I learned that TikTok does keystroke capture, right, I think a lot of people would be really freaked out by that, right. Right. When like legitimate news agencies reported that if you have TikTok on your phone, when you send texts or write messages in other apps, TikTok, with a fair degree of certainty, New York Times, USA Today, those people, TikTok captures those strokes and uses it as a part of their algorithm. It is a huge violation of privacy. Nobody who downloaded TikTok thought they were agreeing to. And by the way, help yourself to everything I type on my phone while I'm here. Right, I found out about it, I was like, what am

0:20:55 Thomas: Maybe TikTok will

0:21:36 Eli: I gonna do

0:21:36 Thomas: Prevent you from being raped or something

0:21:39 Eli: I realized that in that moment where I was like, oh, that was a privacy thing that I thought I had that I didn't have, I realized in that moment that it didn't matter to me, right, and the only way in which it would matter to me is if I had secrets I didn't want TikTok and the Chinese government to know, and placing myself in the position of the Chinese government, which let's be honest this is what I'm really doing here, uh, my kid has secrets they don't want me to know, all the more reason for me to know those fucking secrets

0:22:08 Thomas: Yeah oh boy, I I couldn't, I'm, I'm like the Tom maybe in this, well no Tom's still the Tom in this one, I don't, I don't want to know anything, I'm not, you know, it's the same, same reason I, no, I want a nice healthy relationship, no, sorry, let me rephrase that, I don't want to know anything. They don't want me to know, for the most part, I think. That I want to have, I am really excited, excited, because I, you know, I say this all the time, but I'm excited to even see what the, like, possibilities of a healthy, you know, parent-child relationship are. I don't know. I literally don't know.

Like, it could be, I'm talking to my kids every day about everything, which I love that. That'd be fucking great. I love talking to my kids, or it'll be like, nah, whatever, they don't really care about talking to dad, cause whatever, who knows?

I don't know where it'll end up, but I'm just hoping to raise them in a way with kind of a lot of the safety measures that that I mentioned earlier about secrets and all that, but like raise them in a way where they're going to want to to do that, to come to me with problems, and I'm going to do my best to do that. I'm gonna also obviously not be a neutral, like, observe.

I'm not, you know, I'll ask them questions or whatever, but like, I want to maintain a healthy dynamic and hope they come to me with problem. And I will be doing, I think, no spying whatsoever on my kids.

0:22:17 Tom: God, yeah, that's insane. Saying

0:22:27 Eli: See

0:23:25 Tom: Haberdasher.

0:23:25 Thomas: Like at all.

0:23:26 Eli: Now, Thomas, I resent that, I resent that attack, because you just inferred with your blasphemous, hurtful, and haberdasher words that I don't want A healthy relationship, I want my son to come to me with anything, I want to be open, I want to be that good dad, I just want a backstop that's like, all right, you fucked up and didn't tell daddy, guess what, your fucking cell phone did not, sneaking out tonight because dad's taking out the trash every minute on the hour from 10, 10 p.m. till midnight, motherfucker.

0:23:35 Tom: Words. Oh.

0:23:50 Thomas: Look,

0:23:59 Eli: Oops, ran into you. What a coinkydank.

0:24:00 Tom: Yeah.

0:23:58 Thomas: I know that, um, virtually everyone is somewhat of a fan of Groundhog Day, but are you guys like, do you know the movie Groundhog day? Is that a thing? Yeah.

0:24:09 Eli: Yeah, of course.

0:24:09 Tom: Uh- Huh. Yeah.

0:24:10 Thomas: I figured that'd be a Tom movie. It's one of my favorite movies. I fucking love it.

0:24:10 Eli: Yeah, for sure. It's old, Tom.

0:24:13 Tom: Fuck.

0:24:13 Thomas: Um, you know, when he, um. He's gotten a little lazy in making the perfect day for her. Like he knows everything. Cause he's He's living the same day over and over and he does that like rushed, tries to create that magical romantic moment again, but, but it's all rushed because he knows too much and he's too lazy, but that's going to be you. You're going to try to maintain that healthy relationship with Max, but you're going to constantly be like, and so, what did you do? What did your, what's your friend Bob do when you do, and, and like, it'll be something you shouldn't know, you know? And he'll be like oh, wait, do I, did I tell you that?

0:24:14 Tom: You right?

0:24:43 Thomas: It's going be a bunch of that.

0:24:43 Eli: Right, Thomas, I have actually thought of this. Are you ready? Roll play the scenario with me because I have this scenario covered. So I'm going to reveal something that I didn't know and you're going to be my son, okay?

0:24:47 Thomas: He's got everything covered. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. What's Okay.

0:24:54 Eli: And yeah, was Ashley at the party?

0:24:56 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, Ashley was at the party. How did you, how did you know that?

0:25:01 Eli: Oh, um, I didn't want to have to tell you this, but I'm, I'm psychic. I, um. Daddy's always had a gift. Uh, ever since I was. Can't do it on demand. I can only do it. I can only do it sobre ciertas cosas, pero, um...

0:25:07 Thomas: Whoa. What? Am I thinking Right. Now And Then

0:25:15 Tom: Oh. My God.

0:25:20 Eli: You can't tell anybody because the government will come and...

0:25:20 Thomas: You're Gonna use You Know All the bullshit that Psychics Use. You're going to go into the like dry read techniques that you already know from debunking all that stuff type.

0:25:28 Eli: But if you write down what you're thinking on this piece of paper for daddy...

0:25:32 Thomas: No. No, you type it in your phone. Type it in.

0:25:34 Eli: Type it in your vote. Look at any word in this book for daddy and it's the perfect, you think I haven't come up with every, I've thought of every possible outcome, Mr. Holmes, and there's only one in which I don't defeat Thanos trying to molest my son.

0:25:41 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that is.

0:25:53 Tom: All right, so that's insane, let's move on to a different question because now I'm now I'm curious. I've got two kind of related questions with respect to your, uh, do you keep secrets from your wives and like, and I mean, like not even like, like if somebody you knew, like this

0:25:55 Thomas: Yeah.

0:26:11 Thomas: Like a third party secret. That is an important policy question for every couple.

0:26:15 Tom: This is important. I'm curious where you lay on this. So if I were to say like, hey, I need, I'm going to talk to you about something that's really important, I, it's a secret, you know, whatever, like it's confidential, does that mean it's confidential also from your wives?

0:26:29 Eli: Never. I, and I clarify that. I'm like, can I tell Anna? Anytime someone has ever told me a thing, I'm, can I say no? I say you cannot tell me. You cannot. You, you do not understand, sir. Teamwork

0:26:31 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. That's good. That's great. That's fine. That's okay. I, I, well,

0:26:42 Eli: Makes the dream work, and I will be running this past the boss the minute this conversation ends. Yeah.

0:26:48 Tom: So It's assumed. Okay, so we're in the same, it's assumed that a secret told to you is a secret told to your spouse. That's a, yeah.

0:26:54 Thomas: But importantly, I think it shouldn't be. Assumed. I think you should state as, as Eli did, I think you should State your policy preferences here. I think this is an important thing to tell people because people are different, you know, like some couples it is like, no, I don't care. I'm not going to tell them everything. And so I think it's important, as a secret, E, as someone being told some fucking whatever this is, you got to be clear. Like, is this because a lot of people just assume like, oh, no, I just assumed that I would obviously tell my wife, and you're like, no, well, I didn't really God, I didn't really want to, you know, like maybe I would have left out some, you know, you might tell something a little differently if you think maybe you have a relationship of some kind with their partner and you'd like want to maybe, I don't know, fudge a story a little bit for that purpose. Like, you got to know the policy. You got to be up front with the fucking policy.

0:27:05 Tom: See

0:27:38 Eli: I am, oh, I, I always ask just out of like politeness, but at this point people know, like, when my friend Rachel tells me something that's like juicy gossip, she will often preface it with, you can tell Anna, but no one we know, which I always think is a super funny turn of phrase for that, because she very clearly knows my wife, but that's, that's language for like, like, okay, but no one is going to spread it around. And I'm like, okay cool. So just keep it in the family, I got it.

0:27:54 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:28:03 Tom: I'll, I'll, I'll tell Haley, but only if it's relevant. Like, I won't just like gossip if it is like, so if somebody tells me like a secret, like if somebody confides in me, if somebody like will confide something in me. Then I consider that confidence pretty absolute with the, like, unless I feel like I need help with it. Like, I wouldn't just be like, oh, I've got some good tea on so-and-so, you know, and like chat just to chat about it. Like, cause I, that would feel, I would not be comfortable doing it. I'll tell you who, the do you know who the world's greatest secret keeper is? Cecil.

0:28:08 Thomas: Yeah. Same. I also tell Haley. Yeah.

0:28:36 Eli: Yes.

0:28:36 Tom: If you tell Cecil something and you're like, this is confidential, that motherfucker won't tell anyone ever, no matter what. Period. End of statement. Like, he'll die like you. He would be, you could press him with boards and he'd just be like, yeah, he'll be like more weight

0:28:44 Thomas: Yep. Yep. And it'll be a meaningless secret too. It'll be like, I never told them that you decided to have the fish instead of the chicken, but he would have kept it, whatever it is.

0:28:55 Eli: Yep.

0:28:54 Tom: Yeah, if if it's confidential, it's like, like, it's like you put it in a fucking vault in fucking Fort, whatever the hell. Like, that is locked up forever, period.

0:29:03 Thomas: Yeah. We should fuck with him and

0:29:04 Eli: Yeah,

0:29:06 Thomas: Just tell him a bunch of insignificant secrets, but like make him just see what his capacity is. Like how much can he hold? You know, if

0:29:13 Tom: That's it. Right.

0:29:09 Eli: Absolutely. Well, and I Think this is why, is because and Thomas, not to imply anything about you, because I know you're a little bit closer to my term so speaking only for myself versus you and Cecil, I think you and Cecil are both what would be called men of your word. I, not so much, like I might use some words here and there, but I'm not committed to any of I don't know, those fucking words, what are they doing here now?

0:29:32 Tom: So,

0:29:39 Thomas: They

0:29:41 Tom: Like, I feel like I feel a couple of ways about secrets with our spouses. So and I absolutely will keep secrets from my kids and I will keep. Well, let's talk. There's a few other things. But like, when it comes to my, like, I will not keep spouses or secrets about myself from Haley, but I would keep someone else's confidence from Haney if they were specific about asking me to. And, and only then still, if I didn't need help with the secret, right? Because secrets are fucking big burden. If somebody tells you something in confidence and I try not to get people to tell me things in confidence, like I am like, I'll tell people like, don't please don't tell me this.

I don't want to know before you start. Like, just, I don't, I probably don't want to Know, like, I DON'T WANT TO KNOW YOUR FUCKING SECRETS AND I DONT WANT TO KNOW your dreams. Like that's like, I don't they don't wanna have, I didn't want this information. So, but if somebody insists on confiding in me and they tell me like, you absolutely cannot tell somebody, you have to hold this in secret. And I don't think this has come up. Would hold it from Haley if I was specifically asked to, um,

0:30:01 Thomas: Asked you to. Yeah. Yeah.

0:30:22 Thomas: Smart. Yeah. Yeah.

0:30:41 Thomas: Yeah.

0:30:41 Tom: I needed help with it, unless I was like, I don't know what to do with this and I feel like I have to intervene.

0:30:46 Thomas: Me, it would be like if there's any way in which it would hurt Lydia to keep it, no way. But if it was like, you know, you know what I mean, like someone could ask me, if someone asked me to keep a secret from Lydia and it was something that for some reason I felt would hurt Lidia not knowing, or is this is like, like important that she knew, I have no problem being like, uh, you just told me something, I know I might've agreed to that, I wouldn't tell her, but no, fuck this, I have to tell her, cause I'm not keeping that from her.

I can't think of an example of that, but like, I, I imagine Tom, you're going to be the same way. Like if it's something that at all is like detrimental to Haley, it's like, oh fuck that. No way. But if it was just like, here's some knowledge that like, it doesn't really, you know, it'S not really our business. Doesn't really matter. I'm like, like, yeah, okay. If someone asked me, whatever. I think it's okay. And I think that's interesting philosophically. I should have done a guessing game with Tom on this because I think you might have guessed like, oh no, every 100% Tom will tell Haley every single thing ever.

But I also think there's a certain amount of, you know, I think It's okay on some level to have things that you would rather people not know. You know, you don't have to like, um, everyone, every embarrassing moment you've ever had. Like, if you want to share something, if I wanted to share something with you, Tom, as a friend, like, oh man, this is this part particular thing was like really embarrassing or it sucked. And I, you know I'd rather not have like Haley know that about, you Know, maybe it was

0:31:14 Tom: Right. Right. Yeah. No, no. Yeah, right.

0:32:08 Tom: Right.

0:32:08 Thomas: Just a bad, whatever it was. I think it's perfectly fine to respect that. And it's not like a violation of your marital fucking vows to be like, yeah, no, that's cool. I don't have to tell her that kind of thing. So that's That's where, where I am with it.

0:32:16 Eli: Let me Throw this out there, other side of the coin, have you ever met a guy who tells you his wife's secrets, right?

0:32:25 Tom: No. What?

0:32:26 Eli: Like, she she wouldn't want me telling you this, but this is this is an element of like guy talk slash locker room talk, that I I And let me tell you, let me tell you, I am Mr. Blabbermouth, but I am right there with Cecil under the boards when it comes to Anna's secrets, because Anna obviously confides things into me, and I have never used my wife's stuff as gossip. But this isn't a thing among guys. This is a thing to be like, oh, no, let Let me let me tell you what she said. Right. OK. And it's become. Have you never heard this? Have you ever

0:32:26 Tom: What? No. What? I would not be friends with that person. I

0:32:33 Thomas: Ooh, I think I know what you mean.

0:33:01 Eli: Been approached with two?

0:33:02 Thomas: I I do Actually, I think I know what you're talking about, um,

0:33:04 Tom: Don't know that I know this.

0:33:06 Thomas: I think it's like, what are they usually things? Well, let me ask you this, Elight. Are you talking about the kinds of things where it'slike are they upset at their wife about the thing, or what, what kinds of secrets do you mean?

0:33:17 Tom: Yeah. Kind of give me a little better context.

0:33:19 Eli: There's two flavors. There's three flavors. There's... there's two favors. OK, the first is family stuff. Right? So they'll be like, oh, well, she wouldn't want me telling you this. But her sister, she was a pretty bad meth addict back in the day. And I'm just like, you know, but number two, and I think this is actually like more important than general, culture gives a lot of guys like kiss and tell with their wives, you know, what I'm saying

0:33:31 Thomas: Okay. Okay. Oh, Well, but that but then that's not really their wife's secret per se, that's kind. Both of theirs.

0:33:46 Eli: Yeah,

0:33:50 Tom: That's kind of their life experience.

0:33:51 Thomas: Yeah.

0:33:50 Eli: But I think I think a lot of the time that wife would not be happy knowing that that information had been shared, right? And I think that's something that men talk about, right, is that like I think Think there are, in my experience, and it can only speak to my experience, women are a lot more private about that kind of stuff than men generally, and again, yeah, so I think a lot of the time, I have certainly had moments where friends have shared things about their friends or spouses or girlfriends where I've been like, I think your partner would be really upset with you for sharing this. Yeah.

0:33:56 Thomas: Yeah, sure. Yeah that happens. Yeah, that happens. I've I've experienced that. Yeah Yeah, for yeah yeah that's an interesting one.

0:34:29 Eli: Want to be clear, this isn't my situation, right? Anna and I are pretty open books. We're pretty honest about what's going on, right. I make a lot of jokes about what going on with me, and people can infer therefore what's coming on with her, because she's still here. So, um, and we have had those conversations. We've talked about the things we do and don't want to talk about publicly, and we're, we're incommunicado about that, right. That's very important to us, but I, I noticed that as a part of guy culture to be like, yeah, we

0:34:43 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, and I know what you're talking about now. I've told, that's totally come up, and it's like, I think it is part of that, that's already. Boy, I did we do an episode on the kiss and tell stuff, because I forget, that's where I'm, Tom did we talk about that yeah I'm Tommy in that one I actually get to be the Tom character. Yeah.

0:35:10 Tom: No,

0:35:09 Eli: Talked about it we talked about it very briefly, yeah, we very briefly talked because It's consensual, I love some kiss and tell talk, it's, it but it's just got to be consensual, right? Like I am

0:35:21 Thomas: Oh oh, sorry I should clarify I should verify, I'm, I didn't mean kiss and tell, this is the, in the fucking locker room talk, guys trying to like brag about stuff, that's a different I do literally yeah I literally never, ever, ever, I have no interest in, it's the weirdest, I've never had any interest in it, it's it's like, it's just kind of weird to me, like it strikes me as a little bit desperate, you know, like, oh, you, you really need me to think, like, oh yeah, you, what am I, what do I do with this information, do you want me, like, am I supposed to get horny with it, like what, yeah

0:35:22 Eli: Oh yeah no. Now, that sucks. That fucking sucks.

0:35:31 Tom: That's a little different. Yeah Yeah. I don't know.

0:35:52 Eli: When I was, yeah, when I was younger, it was like, I knew that it was, like, this social testing thing of, like. Well, me and so-and-so have done this. Well, how far did you get? You know. Tell me more. Tell me. Right? Like, I understand the purpose it serves. But I will admit that in the couple of times I've been an adult and it's happened, I've been like, yeah man, we're all fucking what? What?

0:36:16 Eli: Let's just assume we're all fucking. Yeah. Cause you know, we're over the age of 30. We're just going to carte blanche. Everyone's fucking. And, um, if you need to tell me other information, don't. Yes,

0:36:03 Thomas: Yeah yeah it's

0:36:16 Tom: Yeah, I DON'T relate to when we were all younger. I mean, like when when when my friends were all younger and everybody's having sort of like their first sort of like sexual experiences, I think there was a lot more of that kiss and tell because everybody was trying to figure it out. Right. So that served like to your point, like that served a sort of social, personal function where you're like, all right, this is kind of is this right? Right. Did you know and like there was a lot of like at least with the people I knew, there was a lot like anxiety that kind of underlie all of that stuff where it's like, I don't know if I'm doing a good job.

0:36:43 Eli: Exactly.

0:37:00 Tom: And do you guys also do this thing? And like, does your girl react that way? Because like, yeah, people were sort of like trying to like and may might be couched in some more crass language.

0:36:40 Thomas: Sure yeah yeah well

0:37:03 Eli: How do you do this? Yes, exactly.

0:37:11 Tom: But I think it was all a lotof like,

0:37:12 Thomas: And also at that stage, it's status to have even like done stuff you

0:37:15 Eli: Yes.

0:37:13 Tom: Yeah, but I'm I'm thinking like early, early college where it was less status and it was more like people trying to figure stuff out, like trying to be like, at least with the people that I was hanging out with, I think it was really, I think a lot of what underlie all that stuff was really an attempt to be, like, hey, look, I would like to be good at this and I would like to do this. I would to be a good partner and I'm not really sure how, because I'm fucking 21 or whatever, you know, or 20.

0:37:19 Thomas: Oh, okay. Mm -hmm.

0:37:39 Eli: Right.

0:37:39 Tom: And, like I don't really, you know. So, like what's normal, what's not normal, that kind of stuff.

0:37:41 Thomas: Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about.

0:37:43 Eli: Right?

0:37:43 Tom: So, but yeah, I don't have that same experience where, like, like, none of my adult but

0:37:44 Eli: All I've got is the share.

0:37:47 Thomas: You've never had a dude in your shitty industry, your male-dominated fucking golf parties, Tom.

0:37:53 Tom: It's a female dominated industry. That's the thing.

0:37:54 Thomas: Oh, really? I thought you said at the part, at the

0:37:55 Tom: No, 75, 25, you know, it's just, it's just upper, upper management, that's male dominated.

0:38:00 Thomas: Upper, okay, well, whatever The thing is, you said that was mostly men that you, you never, like, the golf poker games you learn that day and then win, in you've never been like had some guy try to like you brag about what he's done. I love Eli's response. Like, yeah, man. I assume

0:38:01 Tom: Yeah.

0:38:13 Tom: No. They'll they'll objectify women. Like, so, so I've I've Never, so in those sort of group male settings that are very like fucking braggadocious, like it'll be like, oh, you see, see that ass on that one that walked by, that kind of nonsense, but never heard anyone like share, like that. Yeah. Like it's Yeah. I

0:38:15 Thomas: Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's Not yeah.

0:38:32 Eli: Tom, I, I'm not a rich man. I will give you all the money in the world if next time they're doing the, like, look at the ass on her. You're like, I'm really into getting pegged lately. You guys tried being pegged. The feeling of fullness is really, it's a sexual, like fulfillment I've never had before. I know you'll have to get a new day job.

0:38:52 Tom: Oh, god.

0:38:55 Thomas: Yeah.

0:38:55 Eli: I know that that's a part of it, but it is important.

0:38:55 Thomas: Yeah. It's

0:38:57 Tom: I can't even imagine what would happen.

0:38:59 Eli: I also, can I just say for the record, because I was thinking about that. And yes, Thomas, I've absolutely had those like, so how far did you get conversation? Like, those are super duper real to my younger years. And I don't know why this occurred to me, But you could not put me in a hamster ball safe enough to ask either Tom or Cecil how far they've gotten with their wives or about their sex life. Like, you could fire me into space and put me on the International Space Station under the condition that I would radio down to Cecil and be like, like, so anyone get lucky and I'd be like, nah, he'll figure out a trebuchet thing.

0:39:12 Thomas: Not as much anymore. Yeah.

0:39:33 Thomas: Yeah. Good,

0:39:34 Tom: Yeah. Like, that's actually a great example. I have known Cecil, that's actually a good example. I don't think you would mind me saying this because it's not saying, saying anything. I've known Cecil for, we have been close friends since 1996. So a long time, 27 years, right? So whatever that is, like, yeah, 27 years. We have been closed friends and I know literally nothing about his sex life at all. Literally nothing. And Cecil knows literally nothing about mine. It's not something we've ever shared. And I, and that's true of my closest friends that I've had since, like I said, since the nineties, like it's, that's just not anything thing that, like the people in my life, share.

0:40:03 Eli: Tom, Tom,

0:40:09 Thomas: Well, okay, but I'm drawing a distinction. I Think, there's nothing wrong with a healthy discussion of sex if both people want to talk about it. It's, the I'm talking about the, the dudes. And it isn't as common as the older you get, but like, especially in your twenties and all that, the dudes that bombard you with like what they've done as, as, as though, like, you're supposed to be like impressed or something.

0:40:12 Tom: Yeah,

0:40:28 Eli: Yes, of course. Tom, be closed minded right now. I want you to really open your heart and I want you to think of a number that we could hit on Patreon for you to call Cecil on the phone, record it or not and just initiate pussy talk. I just want you to get a number in your head.

0:40:31 Tom: Yeah. I'm not okay. Yeah. No, no, I'm, I'm here. I'm here. All right. Yeah. God. That sounds just terrible on every level.

0:40:52 Thomas: Oh, that's so uncomfortable. I also need a patron number to even be a party to that in any way.

0:40:55 Tom: Yeah. Yeah. Eleventy five thousand.

0:40:59 Eli: Because I will hit it. I will get it instantly. I will instantly hit it with my own yep eleven Thousand five hundred, five, four hundred ninety nine, so, boop, just to hear just for the pause followed by the, what, that I can use as my cell phone ring for the rest of my life.

0:41:04 Thomas: I'll just pledge $80 ,000 an episode. Yeah.

0:41:16 Thomas: Followed by him undoing their entire business and friend relationship, like in paper

0:41:18 Eli: Yeah. No,

0:41:18 Tom: And Then and then. Right? All of a sudden, like the next thing that comes out is cognitive dissonance is no longer, you know, our last episode was the last one you heard

0:41:22 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Wait, what's this tweet from the official cog dis account? Where did that come from? That was fast. Yeah.

0:41:35 Eli: Tom, I feel like I sidetracked us uh slightly.

0:41:37 Thomas: What?

0:41:38 Eli: You you said you had other ideas about uh spouse secrets and secrets from our kids. Where were you going with that from

0:41:35 Tom: God. No, that's okay, that's fine. I don't care at all. Would Yeah. So like, would you hold, if, if your kids told you a secret, would you hold their secrets? Yeah.

0:41:50 Thomas: Kind of see. Yeah. I think that context is important. Like, what kind, right?

0:41:50 Eli: The world or from my spouse for

0:41:54 Tom: I mean, like, if, like, I don't know, I mean, I'm, I'm just curious, like, if you're, if your kid told you secret, I'm thinking like, like, you know, let's say, and actually let me, let me reverse the gender. So, like, I can imagine a world very comfortably where I would be very OK with Haley holding a secret about her daughter from me. If her daughter came to her with the secret, for example, that she said, you Know, like, hey, I want to talk to you about this. It's in confidence. So I think that are sometimes when it's appropriate for us to keep secrets for our kids to hold secrets for kids.

0:42:11 Thomas: Right oh, sure. Yeah. Interesting.

0:42:24 Thomas: Interesting.

0:42:24 Tom: Kids. And I also think like for our audience, I know we, we said, you said earlier, Eli, like, you know, you're only talking to the good parents out there, but there's a lot of people out there that they're the good parent. And then there's less safe parents in the house. And so I think too, like it's, it's something to think about your relationship with your kids.

0:42:38 Thomas: Yeah.

0:42:43 Tom: Um, and you

0:42:43 Eli: Instance, Anna is listening to this, and I am in her house.

0:42:47 Tom: Know, like you want to create a safe space for your, for your kids, kids, even if they have something to tell you, um, they don't want to share with the other parent because they don't feel as safe, you

0:42:55 Thomas: That's tricky. Yeah? You I was trying to translate it to my experience. But yeah, no, that that's for sure. But even just in a healthier dynamic, I would you I think it's important, you know, to be able to trust your partner and to have that good relationship with your partner to where they'll use that discretion, you You know, to where it's like, all right, if this is a because I could see especially, you know, girls or boys or anybody, you at a certain age, you now puberty and all that crap, I could see them wanting to tell one parent something and being like, please don't tell the other parent that just because of the gender dynamic.

And I think I think that's like a kind of you'd have to deal with it ad hoc, you know, I think for the most part, it's probably fine to keep those secrets. But I think as you'd have to trust your spouse or your partner to make that judgment call, you you know, like, yeah, this is actually maybe something that's quite like a little bit serious enough that you should know, you know? Like maybe you need to do something or look out for something or, you know what I mean? Or like know about another

0:43:27 Tom: Yeah,

0:43:27 Eli: Right. Exactly, you're

0:43:51 Tom: What?

0:43:51 Thomas: Friend of theirs or something. So like, I think that's crucial to have that partner you can trust in that situation.

0:43:53 Tom: And That's, and that's why, like, my answer is like, I, like, I would assume that everything, like, for like Haley and I, like, I would assume that like anyone that tells me a secret goes to Haley, right? Like, I would, but only if it's relevant. Like, so, like, if one of my kids said, hey, I really, really need to talk to your dad about this thing, and I need you to like, really hold this in confidence, it's whatever, like, yeah, I would a hundred percent do that unless it was relevant for me to share with Haley, right? And then I would absolutely go and be like, hey, I gotta talk to you. Like do you know?

0:44:22 Thomas: And then you always have that third option of like, all right, I got to tell you this, but just let's not let on that, you Know this, but I need, I want to, you know, I don't love stuff like that. You know me, I fucking just hate not saying everything. And like, I just like everything being honest, but I recognize with, kids, you especially with other, other people who want, maybe want confidentiality on certain stuff. Like, yeah, I mean, there's certain times where it's the right thing to do might be, all right, I got, I gotta tell you this. So you have this information, but let's do everything we can to not let on that. We've told you that I've toldyou about this thing that our kid told me in confidence. I think that's a perfectly, you thing to do in a parenting situation. Sometimes.

0:44:30 Tom: Yeah.

0:45:03 Tom: So are there questions I'm curious, like, cause I know you guys think I'm absolutely nuts because I wouldn't answer my kids' questions. Like I'm

0:45:09 Eli: The crazy one on this episode, I've always agreed on that.

0:45:11 Tom: Yeah, that's cool. I, but so I know, you think I must, because I would, I, would not answer my my kids, if they asked me like, Hey, what happened with like you and mom? I'd be like, that's none of your business. I know you guys think that's a crazy position to take, but like, are there questions you wouldn't answer if your spouse asked them?

0:45:27 Thomas: Like what, like, what kind of example?

0:45:29 Tom: Yeah. Is there anything about you that you'd be Like, you know what? That's actually, yeah.

0:45:30 Thomas: Oh, about me. Nah.

0:45:34 Tom: Like, is, are there any questions that your, that your spouse could ask you that should be like? You know what that's off limits.

0:45:40 Eli: Had a few not cash money experiences in my life that I think if Anna asked directly about them, I would be like, yeah, here's that story. But I have never volunteered them, right?

0:45:41 Thomas: Oh.

0:45:58 Thomas: Have the right as a human to be like, I do not want to get into this, you know, like, I don't think you should feel

0:46:02 Tom: Oh yeah.

0:46:02 Eli: But you also just you know.

0:46:03 Thomas: Oh.

0:46:03 Tom: You have that. Right. I'm just curious where you guys stand on it. Like what is that? At like, yeah,

0:46:04 Eli: Yeah.

0:46:06 Thomas: Oh, yeah, sure. No, no, I, I think, so I think the key is, and I think, Eli, I would probably be exactly the same as you where it's like, I'm not going to keep something a secret per se, I'm, I'm not going to be like, no, that didn't have nothing, you know, but I would just honestly be like, that's just not something I want to talk about. And Lydia is so sensitive to that, that the minute I said that, she would be like, oh, never mind, like she would have been out of the room already because she's so sensitive to like not wanting to, yeah, because she really would never want to like make anyone, you anything they don't want, she just wants everybody to be happy and healthy and all that. And so I think, there's you plenty of room to not have to be like deceitful about something, but also be like, it's just not something I, you know, I just don't want to talk about it. I don't get, you know, I don't want to go there.

0:46:07 Eli: Just a Lydia -shaped cloud in the wall, yeah.

0:46:33 Tom: No,

0:46:53 Eli: I mean, I, I have, I wouldn't say deceitful, I would say selective at times, um, with stuff in my past and stuff going on, it's

0:47:01 Thomas: Yeah. Stuff in your past. I, yeah, I think that's valid as a human. You know, I think do think you actually let me let's let's put it back on Tom. Tom, do you think partners have the right to know like everything about your life from before you were together?

0:47:18 Tom: I don't think you have that right at all.

0:47:19 Thomas: Yeah, same.

0:47:20 Tom: Like at all? No, I don'T think you have a right. I think me personally, I like, I have, you'll be unsurprised. I have two different views. So like ,I would be very comfortable if Haley said, that's something I'm not going to share with you. I'd be like, okay, cool. I'll never ask you again. Um, personally there's... there's nothing I wouldn't tell her.

0:47:32 Thomas: Mm -hmm. Sure. Yeah.

0:47:37 Tom: So, yeah.

0:47:38 Thomas: Same. Yeah.

0:47:38 Tom: And I've told her like things that don't reflect well on me and that are embarrassing, but like, I'm okay with that. I You am okay with having this one person in my life be my, like be an open book to this one person like I like personally having that openness with her. Um, to me, like like, makes me feel, like, much closer, you know? But, questions that, like. I just wouldn't ask. If she was like. Yeah, that's not. I'm not going into that with you. I'd be like. All right, cool. That never gets asked again. Like, that is fine.

0:48:02 Thomas: Disappointingly, I think we're all having a sane response on this one, I think, so the listeners may be right. Don't you think, Eli?

0:48:12 Eli: Don't get me wrong, I would be on fire, I would respect it, I would definitely respect that line, but I would think about it until the day I died, right, if I was like absolutely, even more if I was like, have you ever been snowboarding, and she was like, I don't want to talk about it, I would be like, absolutely, we never have to talk about it again, I would never, I wouldn't say the word snow ever again, but every night before I went to sleep I would be like, I should Google like snowboarding accidents, Smith, I should, I'm snowboarding, I wonder

0:48:12 Thomas: Yeah, well, I mean like what if it's like something traumatic, you, you know, like I feel like you'd respect oh, okay, yeah,

0:48:20 Tom: Yeah.

0:48:42 Tom: Yeah, I will

0:48:43 Eli: What snow, all

0:48:43 Tom: Say. Like, I don't think. I don't think that Hayley has secrets from me. I don't think it's never come up that I've ever, that we've ever broached a topic where she's been like reticent to talk about it. She were, I'd be like, yeah. And, but same thing, Eli, I would be like okay cool. I'll never bring that up except for in my head where it never stops being asked all the time. Like inside my head that will be the only refrain I hear for the rest of all of time.

0:49:03 Eli: The time, every day.

0:49:05 Thomas: And By the way, I've talked about these like hypotheticals and these ethical questions and all that, but like, like, I don't have any other option in my, just as who I am, but to have a 1 million percent open, you, like, we talk about everything at all times, definitely overshare. I think, Lydia, you just are open about everything, it doesn't matter if any of us, if either of us directly wants to know something, there's no question, like, we would just talk about it, you,

0:49:11 Eli: Yeah, Yeah, no, I feel, I feel like that's true as well, it's honestly, say that's really gotten for the better, I mentioned briefly on an episode a while ago that Anna and I started doing check-ins this year, every night, like we sit down and we do a check-in, and it's interesting, since, since we started doing that, how much more that tunes us into each other, and how much, how often I have realized, like, oh, I'm not having a good day and haven't talked to Anna about it, or Anna wasn't having a great day today, and I just realized that, and also, like, we have learned to share, like, yeah, I am not having good day today, but you know what, I'm fine, like it's, it's not a big deal, it's just something my brain is doing, or I'm still caught up on this, or, you know, especially this year, which we obviously can't talk about too much, but it's been a hard year, and so we were both in tremendous amounts of psychic pain at various times about how hard this year was, um, couldn't always talk about it, sometimes legally I couldn't talk about, sometimes emotionally I wasn't able to talk about it, um, only so much we can talk about there, but that was, that was a very important tool for us, and sort of had those moments where she was like, nope, nope, not okay today, but I'll be fine, right, like, I don't need you to help me work through this, or I was not okay, and we were navigating how not okay, I was scary during time at one point, where we were like, how not okay is Eli, is Eli safe, is Eli

0:49:44 Tom: Yeah.

0:50:10 Thomas: Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:51:03 Eli: Well? This is all things I could talk about, right. Were moments where we weren't sure if I needed more help, right? Maybe like professional medicine kind of stuff. And so checking in at that moment and having that honesty to say, I am safe, but not okay. Or I'm really, really hurting today, but I am save. Or, as happened a couple times, having to say, I don't know how safe I am. I will check in with you. Like, please be aware of this, this, and this.

0:51:31 Thomas: Well, But then I think what happened is, you're like, no, I'm fine, because everyone, this community of people who has listened to me for so long, you know, definitely takes my, my mental health seriously and is treating these issues with the delicacy that you would, as of any human being, involved in any of this, so I'm fine for that reason, is what you definitely said, right? Yeah.

0:51:48 Tom: Uh

0:51:53 Eli: That's exactly what I said. That's right, Thomas. That's great. It was all the generosity.

0:51:54 Tom: I remember yeah

0:51:57 Thomas: Yeah. You know, I want to say this, often I communicate to my wife through this show because I think of stuff and also I will forget it if I don't communicate, but I, I think No.

0:52:06 Eli: You sunglasses losing whore.

0:52:13 Thomas: This is a more serious one, I think, I'm realizing this is attendancy and Lydia has been open about this, the people pleasing, she puts, she puts other people's needs always ahead of her own all the time, and I think with the very thing you're talking about, Eli, there's, I think there's probably quite a lot that she maybe didn't get to express because she wasn't, she was very, very reticent because I was going through, still am going through, absolute hell, that she didn't know, like, can you, as her, can I add to this, you know, kanai like, put anything thing on Thomas right now, you know, and so, like, I'm sure that was a tough thing for her to feel like, yeah, sure, I, I was the one who mainly was going through it, but like she was too, and I, I didn't have, I'll just admit, like, I did not have the capacity for, to really be there for her for a lot of that, because it was so, if you get to a certain level of bad, you, it's just hard, you can't take on anymore, you know.

And, and that must have been hard, and like I'm sure there's stuff, stuff like, if, you know, that she might want to say or talk about that maybe she never got to. I don't know. And I think, you in a better enough place now that please feel free to, like, put your needs ahead there and, like, or not ahead, but like just where they should be, like, value wise.

0:52:43 Eli: Hmm.

0:53:22 Eli: Yeah, to bring it more to the general, right, I, I did think about, like, because we were going to talk about secrets, I was like, well, something that we can or can't speak about, but um, to bring it more to the general, there will be really difficult times, I think, in a lot of marriages, um, where a lot of things will need to go unspoken, where um, maybe you can't speak, or your partner can't speak, or your partner goes through something really difficult that they can't particularly share with you, right, maybe it's even just like you can't necessarily empathize because you can't get to where they are, and having the trust in that moment to say, "I am with you, I am checked in, this is how I'm feeling, and I can't share it, and you can't make it better," I think has been really helpful, at least for Anna and I, and it's a tool that I think Tom is encouraging, um, and I think is, is, and, and not something I necessarily thought about having that much until before this year, well Gentlemen, enough of that podcast, I have a joke, now it's joke time, three.

0:53:44 Thomas: Yeah.

0:54:37 Thomas: Funny

0:54:38 Eli: Two. One, joke, I had a happy childhood, my, my dad used to roll me down hills in tires, those were good years, okay.

0:54:46 Thomas: I like that uh

0:54:46 Tom: This is so bad okay

0:54:52 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILF, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues LLC. Copyright 2022. All rights reserved.

0:55:31 Tom: You want to tell that at the end, like as a story?

0:55:33 Eli: Uh, maybe, yeah, we'll keep it in the, I'll keep it in th- the old cum chute.

0:55:39 Tom: That is gross. You're a gross person. All right.

0:55:41 Eli: Where do you keep your stories?

0:55:43 Tom: I just made a note of it instead. All