SIO198: Why No One Is Racist

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:29 Thomas: Hello, and welcome to Serious Inquiries Only, yes, this podcast still exists, I'm your host, Thomas Smith, and sorry for the no notification kind of layoff, you know, I want to talk about, well, I think I want to talk why I've been off, but I think it'd be better to leave it for later, so that people could skip it, how about we just pretend we're doing an episode, talk about what I'm here to talk about. And then if after that you want to stick around and hear kind of personal update type stuff, then you're free to do it or you can just kind of, you know, end it there and that'll work out either way. I think that'll be easier for you listeners. So what do I want to talk about today?

0:01:15 Thomas: Well, as I'm sure you've seen from my clickbaity title, it's about racism and it's about the Republican ideology around that. I recently had an experience, I don't want to, yeah, can't, can't give anybody away, I want to be anonymous and everything, but I recently had a conversation with a family member and it was enlightening. This is somebody who is actually not even particularly right-wing, I know they're not, I don't, I don't think they're into, they're not a MAGA person. They're not, you know, there's somebody who considers themselves to be center-right. I think, um, still supports Republicans, but not, they're not a MAGA person.

0:02:02 Thomas: I'll put it that way. And as disturbing as that always is, you know, it's, it's two bubbles clashing. Um, it's something that I'm, yeah, a little bit used to, uh, from doing the show and from, from just being somebody who's not really afraid to talk about, uh. Contentious issues like religion and politics and all that. But when I had this conversation, I kind of came to a realization about what we see every day. So stepping back a second, we recently, within the last month, I guess it was, probably a week or two ago, we had this entire Twitter thing with Donald Trump telling some, what do you know, coincidentally, all women, all women of color, that they should should go back to where they came from, despite the fact that they came from here, except for one of them who came over when I believe she was six or something.

0:02:54 Thomas: But all of them are U.S. citizens, three of whom were born there, and that doesn't even matter. Already I'm annoyed that I'm playing the game on his level, you know, and this was a problem I think we all had to grapple with and nobody's really sure how. I heard Ezra Klein actually had a pretty interesting podcast on this recently where he talked about just try to explore the best way to cover Trump. You know, like, do we try to just ignore this stuff? How do we pick what we engage in? I say we, I'm not part of this, but I think him and the more mainstream media kind of people. And then the other problem is what effect, even if Ezra Klein and his guests come to the perfect right conclusion, conclusion. How do you get anybody? It's a prisoner's dilemma. You know, how do you get anyone else, you know, let alone the entire media to not take the bait.

0:03:44 Thomas: But anyway, that's a, that's a side note. It was racist. We all know it's racist. It was racist, what he said was racist, it's absolutely racist. And now he, he kind of drilled down, he tried several iterations of this because that's what he does. He kind of pull-test stuff or news-test stuff. And then the media react and give him his reactions. And he tunes his stuff. He kind of homes in just on what he wants to get to. And where he got was, well, I'll just focus on Ilhan Omar, the one who was actually not born in the U.S. I'll focus in on her and I'll make up a bunch of stuff about how anti-Semitic she is. And they have. People on, on the right, Trump and others, have fabricated quotes on how anti-Semitic she is.

0:04:33 Thomas: Now, she had said some things and had gotten some criticism for them. You'll remember I talked about them on this show, but that it was nowhere near the level that they are alleging her to have done. It's fabricated, it's nonsense, it is just an excuse to go after a woman of color. And that all happened. And then the point of this is we got to the point where it's so frustrating. We get media interviewer after media interviewers going to Trump or going to Kellyanne Conway or Mitch McConnell and saying, hey, don't you think the racism is racist? Racist And then they say, no, the racism is not racist, of course it's not, it's not racist.

0:05:22 Thomas: Congratulations, way to go, Walter Cronkite, or whatever. Like, I just don't know, I, and I, you know, it's easy to be hard on the media, I don't know what they're supposed to do, you know, exactly, but I just know that this isn't it. You know, like this thing where president does racism, we all know it, it's racism. Anyone in their right mind who isn't a MAGA head knows that that was racist. Even a lot of Republicans do. And polls show that at least some Republicans even recognize how racist that was. And then our plan is to stick a microphone in Kellyanne Conway's face and say, hey, wasn't this racism, and then they say no, and you're like, but hold on, but wasn't it racist?

0:06:16 Thomas: Really? Wasn't really? You don't think that's right? Like, what, what does that do? We know, you know, like, it I'm trying to think of of an analogy, but it's, it's like we're sticking the microphone in in, uh, I don't know, Voldemort's face, and we're just like, hey, don't you think, uh, uh, Muggles are great? And they're like, no, I think we should death to Muggles, I don't know. I'm not even a big Harry Potter guy, I should have gone, I should have gotten Lord of the Rings, which is, which is the more intellectually superior, and which reference, or should I need to find something, uh, more erudite than that? Truth is, I don't read a whole lot of fiction. Uh, but it's like going to the villain and just asking them, like, hey, don't you think we should not be evil? And then they're like, no, evil.

0:07:03 Thomas: Congratulations. Cool. Like, what does that do? It doesn't do anything. We do this over and over. I don't understand it. It's, and again, I don't know what the answer is. Do we, do we stick a microphone in their face and say, hey, Trump is racist? And then is that any better?

I don't, you know, like, and then they also, people in the media also have to feel like they are, uh, being neutral, doing their job, you know, like honoring their profession, all that kind of of stuff there that's important to them, and that's hard to ask them to completely give that up, but we're living in a, in just an information war, that's all anything is now, it's the weirdest thing.

I, you know, we saw it, I, it's again, I'm sorry, I'm branching off, but there's so much, it's been a while since I've spoken to you folks and I have a lot to say, I suppose, but we saw that in the Mueller hearings, it was eerie, you know, I, we've seen it before, we've seeing it with other hearings, it's it's not new, but it really struck me when you watched the, take the Intelligence Committee hearings, for example. We got Adam Schiff, who gives a really good opening statement, outlines how the Russians wanted to hack our election and Donald Trump was open to it. Just, and it's just facts. Like, sorry, sorry centrists or Republicans. Those were facts based on the report, the Mueller report, written by a Republican, by the way.

Those were just facts, Adam Schiff didn't even like put a spin on them or like try, you know, like he just said what was in the report. And then when the, it's the Republicans' turn, who's like the ranking Republican member who gets to also do a little opening statement, you know, kind of thing, then they just do the bizarro world upside down land version of stuff, and it almost, honest to God, it sounded like it was the secondary audio program thing, it's like, okay, for English press one, and for Spanish press too.

0:08:56 Thomas: And then like, you know, one, one per, the first person, I'm not going to make any moral judgments on languages, but one person is like, okay, here's what it is. And then the next person is like, hola, senores y senores. And it's like, it really is that level of like, if you are a, this person, you listen to this set of facts, like this worldview, and this will tick all the boxes of what you think. If you are this other kind of person. Well, then just wait and then you'll hear your worldview. And it's I and you guys should know, I'm not trying to make some relativistic case like Adam Schiff was dealing facts and the Republican was dealing in God knows what. But it but it's hard because we don't the spheres are so separated now that that's really what it's become.

0:09:43 Thomas: We don't even, we're two different countries. We don't even have anything, any relationship to the facts together in common. It's eerie, it's disturbing, and it's getting worse, and I don't know what the solution is. I really don't. I don't know how much longer this can go on. Maybe I'm being alarmist. I hope I'm wrong and that it can go forever and somehow maybe if the Democrats win an an election, then we do some stuff, and then I don't know. But at the pace over the last two decades that it's been accelerating, it feels like, I don't see how it's sustainable. It's just, I mean, maybe generational change will fix some of it. Could be, but it's really disturbing.

0:10:29 Thomas: Anyway, here's the point of all that. This question of what is and isn't racist, and who, who is and isn't racist. And something occurred to me when I was speaking to this family member of mine. And I think it brought to light for me, and I could be wrong, this is my opinion, but it's an informed opinion from growing up in a Fox News household and dealing with Republicans and then subsequently, you know, learning way more about race, about history, about all that, that and becoming progressive, there's a certain kind of Republican who genuinely doesn't think these things are racist, or certain people are racist, or saying certain things is racist. And I think I realized why.

0:11:16 Thomas: It's because, and this is not a PhD thesis or anything, but I think it's true. I was talking to this family member and I didn't even start a conversation on race really, but because we're in two different worlds, we're in two separate universes, I said something and they misinterpreted it and then launched into a pretty racist tirade. So they, this person said, oh, whatever happened, you know, they started arguing about, you know, politics a little bit, and you know, if somebody is going to start off, I actually don't even bother, because especially with family, family, you know, with people who, I don't care that much about my family, but I also don't care about changing their minds or alienating them.

0:12:05 Thomas: You know, like I'm going to, I'm gonna, I'm going to respond if they start, but don't go out of my way because it's just, it's, it's, it's it's futile. I don't know. Maybe, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I should be, but like for the sake of my kids and their extended family and having an okay time at, you know, whoever's birthday or or whatever thing, I don't start in, you know, but if somebody starts in with me, I'm happy to, to, I will speak my mind and I will, uh, I Will not sit idly by if there's some casual racism or whatever it is, casual misogyny or anything like that. And, uh... They saw they started talking about Trump a little bit and what's going on and the argument, and this is such a typical Fox News privileged argument, or, or not even Fox, like this is, you see it on Fox News, but This is a pretty mainstream, normal, everyday, privileged white person argument, which is, oh, you know, those progressives, those liberals, they cry and they cry, you know, all that.

0:13:03 Thomas: But like, what's really different? You know, Trump is president. It's fine. Economy's fine, you're fine, I'm fine. You know that was their thing. And I said, yeah, but we're white. Like, it's, in my point, which I'm sure you guys all instantly recognize, is things are fine for privileged people. I'm the last person. And I'm among, I'm not a bazillionaire, but I'm well off white guy in California doing fine. I'm documented, you know, like I'm, I have none, I'm not black. I'm any of the typical groups that Republicans cause hell for. So I'm fine. And I will be fine for, unless there's a gigantic economic meltdown like that. Once it affects me, that means we're really, really in trouble. And that would be my point when I said, yeah, but we're white.

0:13:50 Thomas: Right. And I guess because my family member was not ready for such a retort, or was not, I don't know, I can't explain it other than they did not interpret my meaning at all in the way that I intended. They went off on a tangent of how white people are fine because they're white, you know, like, yeah, well, you know, kind of thing. You know, how's the, how's Africa doing? How are they doing in Africa? Was the response to that, which was such a non sequitur that I did, I did a 360. You know, my brain was like, why? Because that wasn't what I was talking about at all. I was thinking about our privilege and the fact that things aren't going to affect us even when they are affecting people in camps and kids in camps, and undocumented people living in terror every day.

0:14:38 Thomas: Those are the people who are affected by a lot of these things. Transgender people, gay people, uh, you know, you name it, not cis white privileged people who are well off. But as I say, my family member did not interpret it that way. They started to go down the path of, well, you know, I mean, western values, kind of enlightenment thinking, western values, what you know, those kind of dog whistles, honestly, that are absolutely commonplace among even center right people because, because white identity politics is so prevalent in this country. And, uh, that was a startling thing, and I was like, what do you, what, what are you talking, you know, I didn't even know, I was like getting the bends from trying to follow where this was going. And, uh, it really, like over time, you know, the conversation kind of got interrupted. I was like, I don't even know what to do with that. Uh, and later on, just thinking about I realized, I...

0:15:34 Thomas: Think why Republicans, gen, some Republicans, now, now, I'm not talking about everybody. I'm talking about a specific kind of person. There are certain Republicans who genuinely don't believe that pretty much anything Trump does is racist. And it's a real belief. Now, there are racists who are just giving cover. They know it's racist and they're gaslighting you. And I don't mean to say that this is every Republican. There are a lot of gaslighters. There are out-and-out racists gaslight the entire public by suggesting this isn't racism. And even though they know they're lying, there's that, there is that person granted, but there's another kind of person who genuinely thinks it's not racism. And I think I know why it's because to them, there is so much racism that is just a part of their background, you know, like epistemology, like their worldview.

0:16:27 Thomas: So in order for something to be actually racist, it has to be a departure from what they already take for granted. So things, and this is scary. And if you're a person of color, I apologize for having to talk about it and explicitly state their racist ideology, but it's, it's things that you've heard before. I'm sure it's like, well, you know, black people are like 10, 15 IQ points lower than white people. And that's kind of, you know, that's just how we all know that. Like that's how it is. We all know. And that, that is genuinely how they think. Well, we all know liberals don't want to talk about it, but they know it too. Like everybody, everybody knows that such and such people are not as good. Like look at Africa, look at, they aren't, they, they naturally look at their school performance.

0:17:12 Thomas: They aren't able to perform in school. And no, it's not the underfunding. It's that, you know, they're just not as Good at that. And that racist thinking is the background knowledge, that's like the status quo backing assumptions to, I would say, 80% of Republicans, at least, their ideology. And they think, the reason they get so bent out of shape about PC stuff, and I'm sure this isn't anything new to most of you, is they think that we all agree with that and that it's a fact, but that we just don't want to say it because it's not nice. And so to To them, it looks like, well, you're hell-bent on restricting saying truths that you know are true, but that's going to cause problems because if it's a truth and you're not letting anyone say it, then blah, blah, bla, bla.

0:18:05 Thomas: And so that's how it goes. So to them, when you say like oh, this person's a racist, it has to be more than that because they don't think they're racist. They think that those are just facts that they are more knowledgeable on or something or more honest with themselves or whoever. They think so to be racist to be a scary racist like in a white robe and stuff you have to like not just believe that black people are inferior not as good at school and their systems aren't as good as the ones the western aka white people have set up and that that's all inherent and it's there's a probably a biological reason for it that's not racist to them that is just facts sex. Racist would have to be something beyond that to them.

0:18:50 Thomas: Racism would have to be like you see a black person and you yell and scream and like foam at the mouth and can't control yourself. To them, that's what has to be racism because anything else, well, that is, you know, we all know this. That is not racism. Racism is above and beyond that. Racists who are those bad guys that you see in the black and white films, you now, doing violence and beating back civil rights rights, uh, protest, all that, like that's, that's racism. But just subtly thinking black people are more prone to crime, are not as smart, are all these horrible racist things. That's not racism to them. And it, once I realized that, for me anyway, it actually clears up a lot like that has been confusing.

0:19:36 Thomas: I really think this is the case with your run of the mill Republican. And And it's really harmful. And it is why, I guess, maybe to counter that, we need to try to. I mean, it is so hard. It is just like anything. It is like anything Fox News related. Anything polarized in this country. How to actually do something about it is really difficult. But we have to put out the better information. That, you know, there is a reason that people who we have deprived of wealth, and have put in the worst communities, have have redlined, have kept out of, you know, like the the best housing, have done all this stuff too, and then underfunded their schools and all this stuff. There's a pretty obvious reason why they don't perform as well as school. It's because of racism. It's cause of how they've been treated and systematic, going back over generations, by the the way.

0:20:30 Thomas: It's a generational problem, which makes it even more kind of disguised, I guess, because if it's a generational thing, it looks less and less to these Republicans like it could be anyone's, you know, because we got rid of racism after Martin Luther King gave a speech and then we got rid racism and it's all fine. And so how could there still be any remnants of that? Like Like we're past that in their minds. So getting out better information, I guess, is the only way we can do it. But how do you get them to see it if it's not on Fox News? I don't know. It's impossible. It's the problem of our time is how do you get these people to see information that's not on Fox News? And if I had the answer to that, I would be solving the world's problems right now.

0:21:17 Thomas: So I can't tell you that, but I can tell you things like, you know, there's an excellent experiment that happened. And like, if you're somebody who maybe buys in a little bit too much stuff, maybe you've listened to Sam Harris and Charles Murray or something. They've done experiments that show, I think it was in India or something, it's the farmers where they make all their living and they get paid at the harvest. So they get their entire year's salary at once, essentially. And so that is a hard thing to manage, obviously, like at one part of the year, you feel wealthy, well off, you feels like you're on top of the world. And toward the end of that cycle, you've, you know, you're stretched thin. You're barely going to make it. You're struggling to make sure that your last year's bounty kind of takes you through to the next year.

0:22:07 Thomas: They've done experiments where they have IQ tested those people at different times, the same people at those two different times. And they've found that statistically they perform much worse, like a full standard deviation or so worse, when they are stressed about their well-being, about their money, about making ends meet, that causes an incredible amount of stress.

And just think about that in the American context, with the mental anguish that we put black people through in this country for decades, generations and generations and generation, uncertainty about all kinds of things, you know, about the the violence in the ghettos that we put them in, in the, about just generations of not having enough money, you know, like of being deprived of wealth, to this day they're still deprived of health, they imagine the cumulative effect of all that, you know, when I'm sitting here, when I get to sit here as a white kid, you know, and with all the security in the world, I was pretty, we were pretty poor, but not, but like white people poor, you know, we just didn't have anything, but we had food, we didn't, I never stressed about whether or not we were going to make it, really, you know, and to be able to just sit and focus on whatever I wanted to focus on and not have the intrusion of, you know, a broken home or economic insecurity really, um, and just the cumulative effect that all must have had throughout the decades, it's clear that that is to blame for any difference in performance among black and white students, or we could subdivide it further.

0:23:51 Thomas: But it seems pretty clear to me that humans are humans everywhere. Humans are humans anywhere. We're the same species. We'RE the same thing. Thing. The racism is thinking that we're not, that there's some scientific genetic reason why people of some skin tone wouldn't do as well at school. That's racism. And unfortunately, it's a racism that Republicans have taken on as part of their worldview. And so getting back to it, to be racist, that's why it literally is proof to them. And there's a funny Sam Harris quote on this that I just came across. Apparently, Sam Harris was baffled that some like madman, liberal, progressive, woke person invented the idea that having a black friend doesn't get you out of racism.

0:24:43 Thomas: Like, and he presented this as though it's the most sinister thing ever. Like, can you believe these people have come up with a way to make it so that having having a black friend doesn't mean you're not racist. I will link this in the show notes. I'm recording, again, I have to find with the kids, I got to find times to record. I'm on my guest room setup, so I don't have the ability to just play the audio for you. I'll find the link. But that's really, that's what leads to that level of thinking, to where if you have internalized all this racism and set it as part of your baseline, then to be actually racist, you have to, you you couldn't have a black friend. You couldn't even associate with a black person. I guess you would explode. I don't know.

0:25:28 Thomas: Do they think George Wallace or whatever is like, that's the one racist and then everybody else is not? It's amazing. But really, I mean, what you and I know, I would hope, maybe you don't, so I'll spell it out here. It's pretty easy to be a racist. And I'll go one one further. It's incredibly easy as a white privileged person with this underlying, again, this underlying background knowledge of racist beliefs that they have and they treat as just facts about the world. It is very easy to look at two people, say, and to find, because it is a big world, this is available, find one person who wants to upturn this racist system, who wants wants to, I don't know, do reparations, do stuff to help black people, to admit there's a problem, to do all this stuff.

0:26:24 Thomas: So look at person A who really wants to fix things and acknowledge the problem that racism is and all that. And then there's person B who's like, no, status quo, everything's fine. If black people aren't doing well, it's bootstraps. They got to just pick themselves up by their boots. They're not working hard enough. Look, I can find an example of a a black person who worked. Oprah's got all kinds of money. You think there's still racism? What are you, dumb? Yeah, that's fine. All I have to do is work really hard and then they're fine. Because if you can find a couple of black people who have been lucky and fortunate enough to, you know, like A, have amazing talent and B, be in any position to even use that talent and get out of wherever they were, or maybe they were started off in a more privileged position than your average black black person in America.

0:27:12 Thomas: If you can find a couple of those people, Beyonce. Oh, racism solved. That goes back to hundreds of years. That idea of picking, of using black excellence against Everyday average black people. To say, if this one person can do it, then you have no excuse. But of course, that's just not how anything works. That's not how statistics works. Statistically, you're going to have some people who excel, you're gonna have some people who are so brilliant and amazing that they can overcome even the biggest disadvantages, but that doesn't mean that on average everything's okay. It doesn't. But anyway, back to what I was saying, you've got person A saying we got to do something about it, and you've got person B saying, no, let's maintain this system, this system's fine, it's not, it's no problem.

0:28:01 Thomas: It's, it's fine, this system is good, status quo, status quo, status quo. And if person B is black, ooh, all the better. Then little racist Republican, like Charlie Kirk fan or whoever, you know, Ben Shapiro fan, gets to point at the black person who is saying status quo, status quo, status quo, and gets to say, look, I'm not racist, I'm a fan of that black person.

0:28:27 Thomas: It's the easiest thing in the world. That's, that's what they do. That doesn't magically make you a not racist. If you prefer a person of color who is going to, you know, is like Diamond and Silk or that Coleman Hughes guy from Quillette, if you prefer, prefer a question of color and you're able to, by the way, you're not living with them, you're not friends with them. You're just, but, but even if you were, uh, if you prefer that person who is going to uphold the status quo and is going to validate your feelings as a privileged white person, that's not a ticket it out of racism and racism is more than an individual level disgust with some members of something some race it's more than that it's it's about the systems that we're in and it's about doing things to keep the system that we are in that privileges you and that can be and it can be so easy to hide as something else it can be so to offer reasons why it's not actually about race. No, no.

0:29:24 Thomas: See, it's about small government. I don't want the government coming in here and doing stuff. We ought to be able to do it ourselves. And that's conveniently a way to stop any sort of intervention and any way that the federal government or even state governments could fix problems, the legacy of racism. It's convenient. It. And it's a perfect defense for Republicans against racism. No, no, no. Racists are the ones who they see a black guy and they jump out of the wall like the Kool-Aid Man. Like they can't even, that's not racism. That's racism. What I'm saying isn't racism. That's racist. And that's why, to bring it all to a close here, that's why there are people who I think genuinely don't believe stuff Trump is saying is racist. Like, like, for example, was it Lindsey Graham, I think, who said, well, why would it be racist if we're saying, you know, these women need to go back to where they came from?

0:30:19 Thomas: We didn't, if they were pro-Trump, we wouldn't tell them to go back to Where They Came From. As if that was a, so their defense was, you have to get out of the country if you don't like Trump. It's not about being black. Never mind that they didn't target any white people who don't like Trump and say they had to get Out of the Country. It's like saying this isn't a Muslim ban because there are some non-Muslims in these Muslim countries that we are banning. It's exactly the same argument. No, no, things are only racist if and only if you are actively trying to harm every single person of race X in the entire world. If you do a single thing that doesn't harm race X, in any way, like some other person, then you're not racist.

0:31:07 Thomas: It's a golden ticket out of racism. And that's, it's naive. It's uneducated. It's frankly stupid. And I don't know how we, we got to change this somehow. But again, going back to what I said before, if I knew how to do that, I would be doing a lot better. I don't know. I would, I, you know, if any of us knew how to do that we wouldn't be in this mess. So I can't give you the answers, but no one can. Sorry. I'm just trying to identify the problem and I'm trying to, I feel like for me anyway, way. And I'm sorry if this wasn't an insight for me. This was an insight. This was, this was something that I realized after hearing some, even again, this wasn't a MAGA person. This, this is a, this is someone who considers themselves center, center, right. I'm honest about that. They're like kind of a fan of Bill Clinton.

0:31:52 Thomas: You know, they're not, they're not MAGA people. This is, but this is the power of whiteness and white identity politics. Um, it, it makes you have a lot lot of, uh, hidden, covert, and not sometimes not so covert racist beliefs. So next time I get a chance I actually do plan on trying to bring some more data to bear if I talk to this person again. It's not someone I'm close to, um, because I, you know, I want to do my part to try to dismantle this belief system. It's impossible. No one changes their mind on anything. But that's what I would try. So, so in that light, if anybody has any links of good places where information to try to counter these embedded racist narratives that Republicans have, I know it's out there, a lot of places.

0:32:40 Thomas: I always love more links. You know, a lot of listeners have amazing references for me from time to time, like, oh, check out this person said this really well. And I do appreciate that. But yeah, that's what I'm going to try To do. Um, I don't, you know, good luck to you as well. And, uh, but I, I just really think that's the case and it just goes to show how deep and entrenched these views are, um, that we, that, that we couldn't even communicate on the same level. Like we thought he thought I was talking about something I wasn't because it's so embedded. It's, it's such a knee jerk reaction, but anyway, Anyway, OK, that's that's why I wanted to talk about. Thanks so much for listening. And I am going to talk now a little bit personally about why I was off for so long.

0:33:29 Thomas: And if you don't want to hear that, by all means, turn off the show. But if you do, here goes, I suppose. Yeah, go support patreon.com/seriouspod, what is it, Serious Pod. patreon.com/seriouspod. If you'd like to support the show when and if it comes out. No, I'm planning on doing it more regularly. Um, so yeah, I was, I don't know. Yeah. I don't really know what to say. Um, I don't, I don't know how much I want to get too into what's going on because already I'm questioning myself as to how people look at me or if they, if people will still listen to me in the same way. But I, you know, for me, I was, there's no other way to put it.

0:34:15 Thomas: I, I was off for a month because of mental health stuff. It really is what it is. And you might ask, well, what you were doing all your other shows, right? Like, didn't you pretty many have done Opening Arguments, you've done Philosophers in Space, and the key there is that other people are involved in those, and my problem mentally is that I can't value things that I'm doing, and the only way I can value the other things is that other people are doing them. I have a hard time valuing anything I'm doing. I have hard time thinking it's important, and it's because of what I think was a childhood of essentially emotional abuse, and so it's hard.

0:35:00 Thomas: You know, if any of you watch the Philosophy Tube channel on YouTube, I think his name's Ollie, I've watched him from time to time just here and there, and recently he put out out a video and it, it's a really well done video, it's called like Men, Abuse and something, and I had no idea where it was going at all, but spoiler alert, it turns out he was in an abusive relationship. So he, he had a girlfriend who was just emotionally abusive and was actually physically abusive a little bit.

I, I personally have never suffered from that, that's, I don't, I don't mean to to put myself on that level at all, but he talked about how this, his abuser shaped his worldview and kind of almost inceptioned these negative thoughts into his head, that so that, to the point where, and I, I recommend you watch the video if you're interested, um, to the part where he had no idea he was in an abusive relationship until, like, you know, therapy and stuff, and the therapist was like, like, oh, well, here's your problem, essentially. And it really struck me because a lot of what he said reminded me of what it was like living with my dad and growing up with my dad, who I think is an emotionally abusive person. And things like not thinking what you want is of any value and just being all about a piece.

0:36:35 Thomas: It's almost a codependent thing where you're just trying to mitigate their reaction to anything. And I'm, you know, I realize how many of those tendencies I have. Even now, I mean, I thought I was kind of dealing with this all through my 20s. But anyway, the fact is that there are fundamental things about my, the problem is this wasn't an ex-girlfriend that I dated for six months, you know, this is this is the formative parent that raised me that I, you know, like that I get so much of my identity from, so I'm having a very hard time getting over that or moving on from that, and and I don't really know what to do. Um, and you might ask, oh, but you've done this show for so long before, and if you want the god's honest truth, um, first, first off, I did it when I thought no one was listening and I didn't, you know, I didn't have to care about it.

0:37:30 Thomas: It was just a hobby. You know, and I just did it cause I, I still have these opinions and I like expressing opinions, but then I just treat it like, ah, whatever. You know, if I suck, if my opinions are stupid, people don't have to listen to me, kind of thing. And then it got to the point where I, it was how I made a living, you know?

So then it's like, like, well, I was forced into grappling with my personal, you know, mental demons, or rather not grappling with them, just ignoring them. I was able, for necessity's sake, I was able to ignore them. But then what happened was our hit show, Opening Arguments, is such a good show, and Andrew is so brilliant, that that's become my job, you now? And it's kind of overtaken this one, and so, so that's honestly why I have a hard time doing this one, because I don't value just me, and it sucks because there's like, there's almost two parts of my brain. You know, there's a part where I can rationally recognize that, OK, there are people who like listening to this show. There are people comment and, you know, say like, oh, I miss you, wish you'd come back, you know, and and that that's good. But then there's the other part of my brain that's the totally illogical part.

I can't get rid of that's like, well, none of those people count, like, nobody who says anything nice about me counts, they're somehow not a real person or they don't, they're just one idiot or something. Like, that's that's what happens, um, and it's bad, so sorry that I'm doing a little therapy. I, I hope, I hope I properly warned people who didn't want to listen to this, but sorry.

0:39:13 Thomas: And by that, I mean, sorry, I'm talking like it's an open therapy session here, but that's where I am. But it's okay. You know what? I'm feeling a little better lately, and I'm also feeling like a potential solution could be that maybe I could collaborate with someone. And I've contacted somebody who I think would be amazing, somebody who also isn't just a dude. That's kind of important because I think I've got the privileged white dude voice covered. I think fortunately for me, we've got that perspective. If not for me we'd never know what the privileged White Dude thinks. So I'm looking into that. I thought we were going to be able to get going a little sooner so that's another reason for the delay.

0:39:58 Thomas: But you know I'm going to give that a try. I have no idea how it'll go but we'll see. That is kind of what I'm looking into. But if not that, then I actually am going to just try to get back on it, force myself to ignore, you know, these stupid thoughts and try to do some good. Because the only other thing that kind of keeps me interested in trying to speak to you guys is, unfortunately, it's actually actually a lot of what I've talked about on today's show, I think white identity in this country is such a harmful thing that I think, I don't know, maybe having a white dude trying to speak about these issues, maybe we'll do some good, you know, Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know, but I have this thing.

0:40:46 Thomas: I have the platform, as much insofar as it is a platform, and it is, you know, somewhat significant platform, and I, you now, I feel like I should try to use it, try to do some good. So, I, you know, if I saw a bunch of other people, if I saw a ton of other people, especially in the atheism movement, you know, if Seth Andrews were leaving leading the way on this, that would be fine, I just let him do it. If uh Matt Dillahunty was leading the way on this, I'd fine, I'd just let him do it. If Sam Harris was really great about confronting white identity politics, so yeah, that'd be great, I just I'd probably just quit and let them do it. But uh no, they're doing the exact opposite of that. Matt Dillahunty has lost his fucking mind. Anti-trans bullshit.

0:41:32 Thomas: It's not a good situation there. Sam Harris, we all know, is deeply steeped in white identity politics and doesn't know it. Thinks that his own identity is not consequential to any of his views. And so it just feels like there's work to be done here. And it feels like there's worked that I could do. So that is the other thing that keeps me wanting to do it. And so I want to get back to it. I will be back on the regular schedule. I'm making that pledge. I'm going to do some catch up here because I didn't get any episodes in July. So I may rapid fire a few. But that's my thinking. I sincerely apologize if this is too much information. I don't want to hear about it. Don't worry. You know, like don't not looking for sympathy or something.

0:42:20 Thomas: I just want to explain what's going on in case people were curious. Um, that's me in a nutshell. Oh, look, I'm in a nut shell. How did I get in this nut shell? So, uh, thank you so much for listening though. And if you've, uh. I hope you still, you know, I've known as deleted the show from their podcast app or anything. Uh, so we can get right back into the swing of things. And I will say that if this collaboration thing works out, it could be super duper cool. It could be like a whole better thing than has ever existed here. Um, you never know. It could be terrible. It could not work out, but it could be really, really, really cool. So stay tuned and you'll hear about it when and if that is able to happen. All right. Thank you so much for listening. I do sincerely love you guys.

0:43:07 Thomas: I'm so excited to... I know the shows don't overlap perfectly, but we are doing our Opening Arguments New York live show and I'm so excited to hang out with listeners again. It's been too long since I've done that. You guys really are phenomenal. Like I, I, everybody I meet from these shows, um, everybody is thoughtful, not, you know, not interesting. It's, it's, is very high batting average in terms of meeting really cool, compassionate, smart people as a result of doing these shows. And, uh, it'S, itS the ultimate luckiest thing. So don't ever be afraid to say hi. And if you can go to the New York show, I'm excited to see you all and hang out and, and, uh, and hear from you you and get hugs and pictures and all that stuff. So, all right, that's, uh, how about I call it to a close?

0:43:54 Thomas: Uh, again, this make the show happen, patreon.com/seriouspod. Uh, I'll be back. I'm coming back. I'm doing more. So it's the return. This is the triumphant return of the show. Thank you for listening. And I will see you next time.