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Thomas and Lydia
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Gavel Gavel

Gavel Gavel is the podcast that takes you inside the courtroom. Co-hosts Thomas and Lydia Smith ask the questions you're actually thinking, crack the jokes the case deserves, and cut through legal jargon — while real legal experts with actual trial experience bring the analysis that makes sense of it all. Sharp, funny, and genuinely informative, it's for anyone who's ever watched a trial unfold in the news and wanted someone to explain what's really going on.

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Episodes

Lively v. Baldoni 30 - Keeping Up with the Jones's Lawyers

Gavelheads, it's here! Stephanie Jones's lawyers - Kristin Tahler and Maaren Shah - join us to discuss what Jones v Abel is really about! While we have them, we get their take on the utilization of Doe lawsuits in litigation, and dive deep into third-party subpoenas. After filing a couple third-party subpoenas meant to illuminate information related to who created the allegedly defamatory website and various social media accounts associated, an unexpected objection entered the docket. What might that mean? Support the show, get rid of ads, and get bonus stuff over on patreon.com/gavelpod!

GG30 · Jul 9, 2025 · 40 min · With Thomas Smith & Lydia Smith

Lively v. Baldoni 29 - Wayfarer's Countercomplaint with MJ Morley

It's our final catch up on the Jones v. Abel docket before we have Stephanie Jones's lawyers on! MJ is back to break down this one. It's very business-y and contract-y and that's just what MJ Morley probably knows best! Does Wayfarer have any chance at these counterclaims against Jones and Jonesworks? Find out!

GG29 · Jul 9, 2025 · 39 min · With Thomas Smith & Lydia Smith

Lively v. Baldoni 28 - Wayfarer's (Copied and Pasted) Countercomplaint

There's lot of copy and paste in this one, but also some realllly interesting stuff. How is Wayfarer going to defend themselves against Stephanie Jones' incredibly straightforward and coherent case?

GG28 · Jul 8, 2025 · 56 min · With Thomas Smith & Lydia Smith

Lively v. Baldoni 26 - MJ Morley on Jen Abel's Counterclaims

We're so lucky to have MJ Morley (@morewithmj) back on the show, this time to give us the legal breakdown of Jen Abel's counterclaims against Stephanie Jones and Jonesworks!

GG26 · Jul 5, 2025 · 39 min · With Thomas Smith & Lydia Smith

Lively v. Baldoni 23 - Her Disarming Southern Twang

*RECORD SCRATCH* Hey folks. We had to do a bit of a pivot for a really cool reason. That reason is, we're going to be interviewing Stephanie Jones' lawyers. But in order to do that, we need to catch you up on the Jones v. Abel docket. But that's still also good news, because this docket is really fascinating and honestly pretty fun to analyze. We tell you more about it in the outro to this episode, but expect chunks and chunks coming your way! So this is us jumping into an alternate timeline to catch up on the bustling Jones v. Abel docket! We've already broken down Stephanie Jones's side of this story, so it's time to hear from Jennifer Abel in her countercomplaint! Support the show, get rid of ads, and get new episodes FIRST on patreon.com/gavelpod!

GG23 · Jul 1, 2025 · 55 min · With Thomas Smith & Lydia Smith

Lively v. Baldoni 22 - The Great Subpoena Mystery SOLVED. - with MJ Morley

We're taking a slight detour from our docket order to bring you a very interesting resolution to the subpoena mystery. MJ Morley was kind enough to take us through it, AND give us some breaking news that possibly no one else has discovered!

GG22 · Jun 5, 2025 · 55 min · With Thomas Smith & Lydia Smith

Lively v. Baldoni 20 - Baldoni v. NYT v. Sullivan

Part 20 of LvB is Part 10 of Wayfarer et al v The New York Times Now that we've finished the... facts... it's time to actually analyze the law, and to do that, we're going to summon our attorney Anne Linder! How do the legal claims in this complaint stack up? Is there any there there?

GG20 · Jun 1, 2025 · 53 min · With Thomas Smith & Lydia Smith

Lively v. Baldoni 19 - He's Trying the Pumping Text a 3rd Time and We're in Literal Hell

Part 19 of LvB is Part 9 of Wayfarer et al v The New York Times We've made it! The last parts of this complaint actually talk about The New York Times (you know, the defendant in this case) a little and we give our closing thoughts on the Wayfarer's telling of this whole story. Next up: LAWYER PORTAL! This is the complaint we're working from if you want to follow along. Support the show, get rid of ads, and get bonus stuff over on patreon.com/gavelpod! This content is CAN credentialed, which means you can report instances of harassment, abuse, or other harm on their hotline at (617) 249-4255, or on their website at creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org.

GG19 · May 25, 2025 · 60 min · With Thomas Smith & Lydia Smith

Lively v. Baldoni 18 - What She Promised the Cast Remains Unclear

Part 18 of LvB is Part 8 of Wayfarer et al v The New York Times We're getting closer and closer! Join us as we examine a number of 'graphs related to the editing bay, the different versions of the film, and other post-production goings-on, including Sony's response throughout. We also talk about the premiere from Baldoni's perspective from the theater's basement, and his engagement with Melissa Nathan's The Agency Group to manage crisis PR in the fallout post-premiere. There's a ton to talk about in this one! This is the complaint we're working from if you want to follow along. Support the show, get rid of ads, and get bonus stuff over on patreon.com/gavelpod! This content is CAN credentialed, which means you can report instances of harassment, abuse, or other harm on their hotline at (617) 249-4255, or on their website at creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org.

GG18 · May 25, 2025 · 76 min · With Thomas Smith & Lydia Smith

Lively v. Baldoni 17 - Signing a 17-Point List + Calling the 30-Point Version "Defamation" = Boy Math

Part 17 of LvB is Part 7 of Wayfarer et al v The New York Times That's right! Let's hear how the Wayfarer folks present the 17-point list from Blake Lively's lawyers during the filming of It Ends With Us. Before we get into the attorney-drafted protections for return to production, we also dig into the Wayfarer spin on the circumstances when Lively alleged Baldoni and Heath did not respect her privacy in her trailer while she was breastfeeding and pumping. This is the complaint we're working from if you want to follow along. Support the show, get rid of ads, and get bonus stuff over on patreon.com/gavelpod! This content is CAN credentialed, which means you can report instances of harassment, abuse, or other harm on their hotline at (617) 249-4255, or on their website at creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org.

GG17 · May 24, 2025 · 56 min · With Thomas Smith & Lydia Smith

Lively v. Baldoni 16 - An Increasingly Aggressive and Erratic Effort to Control the Production

Part 16 of LvB is Part 6 of Wayfarer et al v The New York Times We dig into some key defenses from the Wayfarer parties, including Baldoni's intentions in asking a trainer on the film about Lively's weight, Lively's supposed production "takeover" through script revisions (and how her husband, Ryan Reynolds, was involved with those pages), as well as Wayfarer's position regarding Lively's concerns about the intimacy coordinator's involvement during filming. Stay for the outro to hear some extra digging! This is the complaint we're working from if you want to follow along. Support the show, get rid of ads, and get bonus stuff over on patreon.com/gavelpod! This content is CAN credentialed, which means you can report instances of harassment, abuse, or other harm on their hotline at (617) 249-4255, or on their website at creatoraccountabilitynetwork.org.

GG16 · May 24, 2025 · 61 min · With Thomas Smith & Lydia Smith