Lively v. Baldoni 17 - Signing a 17-Point List + Calling the 30-Point Version "Defamation" = Boy Math

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:26 Thomas: And welcome to Gabble Gabble. This is episode 17. I'm Thomas Smith. That over there is Lydia Smith. How you doing?

0:00:31 Lydia: Am feeling thirsty for 30. I don't know. It's like trying to think we have one third left. I don't think I'm thirsty for a 30.

0:00:38 Thomas: That's not even close to anything. Deleting this right now. Burning down my computer. Try again. How are you doing?!

0:00:46 Lydia: Fine.

0:00:49 Thomas: Hey, I just noticed we're on the final third.

0:00:52 Lydia: That's funny because I'm thirsty for a 30. I don't know. Put

0:00:55 Thomas: What all right everyone well uh thing we have that commercial break to uh don't know reboot lydia yeah I'm gonna try to find that little like tiny thing with a paper clip where it like reboot you know quick

0:01:02 Lydia: Me in a padded room. Yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna Janet me, marbleize me.

0:01:13 Thomas: That part just a reboot um

0:01:14 Lydia: When you reboot Janet, she dies every single time. So yeah, I'd be marbleized.

0:01:18 Thomas: No it's still still marbleizing is still a dip. You just like, you don't even watch the show. Rebooting is resetting your memory. Marbleizing is when they get rid of her like forever. Yeah.

0:01:27 Lydia: Completely, completely.

0:01:29 Thomas: Anyway, alright, we're on second number four of the intro that hasn't been cut. So today we are, okay.

0:01:36 Lydia: Right, Mr. Can't tell tell the difference between vampires and zombies?

0:01:40 Thomas: Okay. We are starting with paragraph 71. We're We're getting there. We're getting through it. We've some good stuff to talk about today. I can't wait to dig into the complaint. Where did we last leave off? What were we in the middle of?

0:01:52 Lydia: We were talking about use of the word sexy. We were spending a lot of time talking about the use of the words sexy and sort of that relationship between Blake and Justin.

0:02:04 Thomas: That's right. That is right. We started that sexy conversation. There's of that. So if you weren't convinced by Baldoni's arguments there, there's a little bit more.

0:02:12 Lydia: If I've had enough, like, about them saying the word sexy to each other?

0:02:16 Thomas: Tough, you're signed on. Mean, there's divorce, I guess. There's ways for you to get out of the situation you're in, but But other than that, you're locked in. This is.

0:02:24 Lydia: Stick around.

0:02:26 Thomas: Right. Well, we're going to take our usual break. Support the show. Patreon .com slash gavel pod. And you can be way ahead of where you are right now in content and the ads and support us and also get other bonus stuff. So thanks so much to our patrons. And this break, we'll dig right into it. Let's talk about paragraph 69. Um. I think this is another place where we can really get a window. I think we can, I think we're going to be able to tell a lot about who's telling the truth here potentially based on this.

0:03:01 Lydia: Claims that baldoni made her feel unsafe when he used the word sexy while discussing a wardrobe adjustment when in fact lively herself had previously indicated both verbally and in a text message shown below that she wanted her character's wardrobe to be sexier for a scene in which all the characters wore onesies lively opted to wear a large coat over hers obscuring the outfit. Baldoni, as the film's director, suggested she remove the coat, explaining that the look would be sexier without it. Lively took offense to the comment and appeared upset, interpreting it negatively rather than as creative direction. He had upset her, Baldoni apologized despite having made a professional suggestion as director. Notably, in a separate text exchange, Lively herself used the word sexy to describe one of her character's outfits while advocating for for her own wardrobe choice, an inconsistency that undermines the basis of her complaint.

0:03:52 Thomas: That includes the text thing that we already, I think we already went through this. There's not really gold

0:03:56 Lydia: Also says gold mourning from Justin Baldoni.

0:03:58 Thomas: Mourning. Yeah. I wonder if that's intentional you never know this is a weird way of talking to these celebrities uh I don't think we need to go through that because it's I think we already essentially did she says we'll show you both ways but beanie is much sexier um that's whatever um and then once you read the first couple sentences of 70 because I think it does their kind of conclusion yeah

0:04:18 Lydia: Established what language is acceptable to her and what is not at the very outset of the relationship, just two days into filming. To use this language herself, then, in turn, make a note of each Each instance, when her director used this same language also to describe wardrobe and character, is at best a double standard.

0:04:37 Thomas: Think this is what happened like I don't believe his version for many reasons First off, just at the outset, this is a problem I keep running into where if you are someone who believes that women make up stuff like this or overreact at the slightest whatever, then maybe this seems plausible to you. But in the real world, are incredibly reluctant to want to speak up about any of this kind of stuff because it does not go well for them.

0:05:03 Thomas: It creates nothing but misery to speak up about any of this stuff. So the idea that all that happened was he used sexy to describe a thing that she had already done there. Just incredibly skeptical that that's what would have set her off here. Can do better than that, because I think there's a lot of facts here we can look at. For one, right off the bat, claims that Baldoni made her feel unsafe in quotes when he used the word sexy. Nope, that's not what happened. Searching her complaint for unsafe. It's in two places. One of them is not Blake Lively. It's paragraph 144 in Lively's complaint. Miss Miss Abel stated to Miss Nathan, I can tell you've We've done a lot of work here and continued nothing about being unsafe, fat, common, sexual. Usage of unsafe is in way later when she said when she's talking about the she says this was the precisely effect that the Baldoni Wayfarer team hoped to achieve. They manipulated the social conversation to discredit and bury Miss Lively in retaliation for reporting her concerns about harassing and unsafe conduct during the production of the film. Harassing and unsafe. Would think that the sexy stuff would be on the harassing side of that. And the unsafe stuff

0:06:10 Thomas: Might be, you know, she had complaints about COVID and precautions and other stuff. But I think this is a very intentional choice because the stereotype that have created online is that everything, need their safe space or and they call everything unsafe. And it's purposefully trying to create a contradiction between unsafe. Why would someone saying sexy make you unsafe? Like it's dangerous. It's trying to create that but that's one thing if she actually said that then maybe that's fair game um she didn't that's not anywhere there's nowhere where she said the word sexy made me feel unsafe so that's incredibly unfair and intentional to describe it that way because you are exaggerating and you are playing to stereotypes to set people off on what she's saying here so So right away, that's dishonest. It comes to what she actually said about the word sexy, first, it's very important to note that what Blake actually says is Mr. Baldoni objectified Miss Lively and other women by commenting on or criticizing their bodies as sex objects. Mr. baldoni often referred to women in the workplace as sexy. When they expressed discomfort, Baldoni would deflect or try to pass it off, which undermined Ms. Lively and others' concerns. For example, on one occasion that Ms. lively observed, he told a female cast member that her leather pants looked sexy when she arrived to the set.

0:07:09 Lydia: Mm

0:07:27 Thomas: She rebuffed his comment because she was uncomfortable rather than apologizing, he brushed it off with I can say that because my wife is here today. So that's already that's the first two instances of sexy. There are three in the whole complaint. The third one is then after that, paragraph 60, she talks about this incident. And what she says is, on another day, Ms. Lively wore a low cut dress to facilitate breastfeeding, but had it covered up with a coat. When the jacket briefly popped open at one point to reveal the dress, Mr. Baldoni commented about how much he liked her outfit, which flustered Ms. That day, Mr. Baldoni pressured Miss Lively, who was in her pre -approved wardrobe, to remove her coat in front of the crew and multiple background actors in a packed bar. He to see her onesie under the coat because it was zipped low to reveal her lace bra. Consistent with past practice, he said, I think you look sexy in a tone that made her feel ogled and exposed. With other female cast members present, she said, that's not what I'm going for. He bristled and replied, I'm sorry, hot. Uncomfortable. Ms. Lively said, not that either. Mr. Baldoni responded sarcastically, I guess I missed the HR meeting and walked away.

0:07:26 Lydia: -hm Yeah, right.

0:08:31 Thomas: And then it says another woman on the production spoke to Ms. lively afterward to offer empathy and share her own similar experiences with Mr. Baldoni commenting about her in sexual terms, uh, as a result of Mr. Baldoni's behavior. And I'll just keep going on again, because you have to forget all this stuff for Baldoni's arguments to work. May 29th, another cast member lodged a sexual harassment complaint about Mr. Mr. Baldoni's gross and unwanted comments toward her and others. The extent of what she says. Nowhere is unsafe. The word unsafe is implication of unsafe is nowhere near that. Step one. That's not any part of that conversation. Got two versions of the facts here. We've got his, which says, for one, starts off with a real misrepresentation. And I feel like it's intentional and dishonest. Just a distortion of what she said. It leaves out two other instances of complaints involving other people uh it leaves all that out and then it says for a scene in which all the characters wore onesies lively opted to wear a large coat over hers obscuring the outfit baldoni as the film's director suggested she remove the coat explaining that the look would be sexier without it lively took offense to the comment and appeared upset interpreting it negatively rather then as creative direction feeling he had upset her, Baldoni apologized, despite having made a professional suggestion as director. Again, his excuses, notably in a separate text exchange, Lively herself used the word sexy to describe one of her character's outfits while advocating for her own wardrobe that's his version. Again, it's that she's covered up with a big coat and he says, well, it'd be sexier if the coat was off. Were how it happened, I suppose he'd be right. Right. I just strongly, strongly suspect that it's not how it happened. For one, we have all the other things we know he's either obscuring, leaving out or lying about. Two, I just don't think Lively would be offended by that. Don't Think if it were all about the costume and it were said in a way that was professional and about the scene, I just do not believe that she would have taken great offense to that. That it and that another actress would have said like oh I can't sorry I can'T believe that happened yeah

0:10:33 Lydia: Him to respond, allegedly, I guess I missed the HR meeting.

0:10:37 Thomas: So she would have to be making all of that up so we're trying to track down the onesie scene there's the first one where just they had them and

0:10:44 Lydia: We're just Justin Baldoni and Hasan Minhaj.

0:10:46 Thomas: I guess at a later point we haven't we haven't played any of the like video for the for any ofthe shows yet but we can we can okay so here's the scene where they are wearing onesies I'll describe what it is it's a montage she's about to open her flower shop uh it's just at the bar this scene she's just wearing a onesie she doesn't have a jacket on I they're all wearing their onesies uh not wearing a coat um that that would tell me that, um, what ended up happening.

0:10:56 Clip: Just want it so

0:11:14 Lydia: Interesting.

0:11:16 Clip: Bingo, free beers and a water for my lady love Did you say water?

0:11:25 Lydia: She still took the direction.

0:11:26 Thomas: Or that just wasn't at all what it was about. Like maybe she was just, so in her version, okay. Her version, she's talking about a low cut dress. I know I've read this a million times, but, um, talking about, um. She's talking about a look at dress. So she says that before they're even doing this scene, essentially it's that day, but before they're, even doing the scene, she she's wearing a low -cut dress to facilitate breastfeeding, but had it covered When the jacket popped open at one point to reveal the dress, Mr. Baldoni commented about how much he liked her outfit. Later that day, pressured Miss Lively, who was in her pre -approved wardrobe, to remove her coat in front of the crew and multiple background actors in a packed bar. He said he wanted to see her onesie under the coat. This is later when she's not wearing the dress anymore. She's wearing the onesie. To her quote, him, he's wearing a onesie and she's wearing her onesie under the coat because it was zipped low to reveal her lace bra. Consistent with past practice, he said, I think in her version, he's already kind of creeped before they're even filming. And it's about, so there's no excuse that that's a character choice or a costume choice or anything in her vision.

0:12:31 Thomas: His version, it's all about just when they were in costume and he got her to remove the jacket or wanted her to move the jacket. The information we have is that the scene doesn't have a jacket um she's got I mean uh shall the witness describe the state of her cleavage uh and she got okay uh cleavage report uh

0:12:49 Clip: Lily are you drinking I'll

0:12:52 Thomas: Cleavage modest to moderate it's a it's a her zipper's actually down pretty low now that I look at it but it's like it's not open so that's interesting um yeah so scanning through that she's in the same thing the whole time there's a little bit of cleavage it seems to be zipped low there's jacket there's no jacket in any part of the movie um

0:12:53 Lydia: I Modest.

0:12:54 Clip: Have wine you are not getting you're

0:13:09 Lydia: Also want to say, keep in mind the timeline of the shooting. This is the day after they filmed the birth scene when she was feeling very uncomfortable in that situation. I think she's just on high alert like day. A, she is not comfortable because of things that have happened previously and it's building on each other and building on each other. You know, we're not talking about like a blank slate. You come in to shoot like she's had these other experiences that have clearly bothered her.

0:13:34 Thomas: Or even a Jenny Slade sorry sorry yeah talk about I thought that like as a woman, because I think there are some men that really can't the idea that certain conduct might be OK in one context, but not in another. You know, like there's she's already experienced being made uncomfortable and feels like the guy is creeping her out and going to look differently at interactions um talk about that yeah

0:14:03 Lydia: A woman, a lot of times like you would just try to avoid being around that person ever again. Right. So you don't have to risk being made uncomfortable. Like you were made uncomfortable that other time. But she doesn't have that option. That's her director. That is her co -star. Has to be with him. It is kind of similar to women in the workplace. If they feel like their co -worker is, you you are just talking about like a random corporate job and you feel uncomfortable with your co - worker, that is someone that you are going to have to keep seeing potentially over and over and again. Her again and it just you start putting up walls and I think that is a really hard like she is in a difficult position because I think she clearly is putting up laws as much as she can when they are Justin and Blake but she can't when she's acting when she has to be this character and so like kind of having to engage with this person that has made you feel uncomfortable uncomfortable and just put it all to the side to continue to engage with them in intimate ways. I, man, that's tough. That that's rough. She did not have the option to not with him or

0:15:10 Lydia: Avoid those things. So

0:15:10 Thomas: But also a sense in which it might be like if someone had made a comment uh a dude had made a comment but like there's not the feeling that there's more behind it or that there you said about like up walls is interesting to me because like Like, I think that sounds like what might be going on, where it's like once you get a sense that and this is me asking you, like once you get to sense that there might be a deeper pattern or like some some attention you're not wanting rather than just like a totally incidental comment, then even if it somehow is the same comment, which it could be, who knows, like just a hypothetical, there's going to be a difference right, right. Between you and a comment from somebody where you're like, oh, God, this person has given me some attention that I don't like in ways that are creeping me out or or that I'm not interested in. And I'm worried about having to say no to versus random stranger happens to say, like, you look great today. You know, so and even if it's the same wording and now it might be weird if they obviously if a random stranger says something super weird. Sure. Of course. But like picture a statement that's like kind of ambiguous. Ambiguous.

0:16:10 Lydia: I have an example I had a stranger many years ago who complimented me on my smile. Random man. But he didn't like try to walk after me. He didn't, you know, like he he presented something in that way that like I could genuinely just take as a compliment.

0:16:28 Thomas: It you should smile more too, I'm guessing.

0:16:29 Lydia: No, it was like it was was like you have a really beautiful smile like you've brightened up my day or something like that and was like oh thank you and then he left me alone after that and it was great and I felt really good during that day but then I've had other situations where people have said similar compliments and then tried to keep pushing the conversation or like try and take it a different way and that's when you start to like as a woman for I'll just speak for myself but I feel like a lot of women probably feel this too everything starts feeling like like getting tighter in your body and you're trying to like make yourself smaller and more compact and as as you can even though you can't make yourself invisible and engage but then also not not it out because you don't want to make a scene because you You don't know what they're going to be capable of. So you're in a really challenging situation. And I think like the safest thing that a lot of women do is they just, yeah, they start putting up those walls. They start tightening their body. They start trying to make themselves less noticeable or more boring. So the person moves on or, you know, whatever, like like you find all these tactics to try and do when you're put in a position like that. Yeah.

0:17:14 Thomas: That's scary. Yeah. I component of this could, be even if, she were, okay, ultimately with off the jacket for the costume, because I mean, that's what I ended up in the movie, Unless unless somehow this is a different thing that didn't make it to the movie that they're talking about. That's what ended up in the movie. Might be totally comfortable with that, but not comfortable with the director saying, hey, take off because show everybody.

0:17:59 Thomas: Yeah, like like like in front of people drawing attention to it. That'S also two very different things. So I guess what I'm saying is I'm it's hard because I'm trying to like I'm toward people who might be on the fence about this or or and I want to make sure I'm being fair when I see two different versions of an event and in one of them Blake Lively's behavior is insane and unexplainable her behavior is he said I you I think as a director, as your director, I think it would be sexier, like you said in your text, if you did this. And she said, oh my God, I am unsafe, you pig. Exaggerating, but fundamentally behavior doesn't make sense in his version. And

0:17:58 Lydia: Yeah. The characterization of it. Yeah, yeah. Hmm. Yeah.

0:18:40 Thomas: In her version it's like oh okay no this makes more sense like the things that she's saying cause someone like her to be uncomfortable and there's a lot of corroboration that she alleging which you know for now is just words but we can assume involves other witnesses and stuff like that we can keep an eye on that in her vision her actions make sense and in his versions her actions are that of an insane person now there are a bunch of people who I think are like yeah girl women be crazy and then can just go with the first version because in their minds there exists some reality in which like women sometimes just be crazy. That's just far more unlikely than her version which makes perfect sense and and her behavior looks more like normal everyday human stuff and reactions that a human being would have.

0:19:25 Lydia: You think if you were the director in this sort of scenario, like is wearing a coat over a onesie and the point of the scene is that they are participating in onesie day. You just say like hey want to make sure we don't lose the onesie under that coat can you you know you comfortable taking it off it has nothing to do with it being sexy it literally is like we're trying to emphasize that it's onesie day and it's even called out in the in the um dialogue a little bit later like let's make it clear you're wearing a onesie

0:19:37 Thomas: 100 percent 100%. %? Absolutely. Another reason why her story makes more sense because her story is him doing this because he's creeping her out. A thing we know happens every single day and is consistent with other behavior that we're seeing from the thing. It paints a consistent picture of a dude being creepy in a way that is very plausible because, you make a great point that like, if this were really what happened, why is that the conversation? There's 8 000 different ways that I would if it were me I'd be like hey um were you playing first off not in front of anybody hey were you playing it was the coat just because you're cold or because you know I just feel like we're all in onesies so I bar you know it seems like you'd be kind of warm if you were in a onesie and a coat is are you keeping that on or you know like

0:20:07 Lydia: It's an effort to make herself a little more invisible in that moment as they're getting ready to film that scene yeah is something

0:20:41 Thomas: Yeah just ask the question and prompt and maybe she's uh wearing it in between takes or maybe who knows or she's like oh I just want to wear this coat in which case you can say well you know I feel like we're all in onesies like I think it would make more sense you're the director you can do that nothing wrong with that why does sexiness any part of this why would that be any part and he's admitting it was he's admitting it was and it doesn't make sense it didn't need to be any part of his conversation he specifically needed her to show cleavage because he wanted her to—which I don't know, that feels like a little like, I I don'T know how films work, but that feels like that cool. I don' t, you know, like,

0:20:41 Lydia: Wrong like like yeah yeah yeah yeah no yeah god

0:21:20 Thomas: II don' T know. Like, there just were so many other ways to do this, which makes her version way more plausible to me. Finish up that paragraph. Kind of branches off, which is why we stopped. It's It's just, I think it's worth reading because generate a list of demands that insinuate he and his business partner acted inappropriately and refused to work unless they agree to not do it again is calculating and even extortionistic. Then to use Wayfair, Baldoni, and Heath's agreement to not do something they already did not do, were not doing, and had no intention of doing as the basis to file a non -public CRD complaint against them and release it to the public herself in order to ruin their reputations is defamation. The Times was directly complicit in this. Is the rest of that paragraph? No, I know. None of that. There's no way that she did all of this and had her lawyers involved and typed up a 17 point list of things She wants them to stop doing to return to the film. There's just no way that she did all that and it was stuff they never did. For one, you've already confirmed so much of it. Like again, none of the things so far. Correct me if I'm wrong. Not one instance has he said, that's just made up. That never happened. Happen all stuff that they did but he's telling a different version of it and that sure seems to me to be much more likely that he behaved shitty and is trying to explain it away rather than she's making it up because if someone's making stuff up like it's pretty it's pretty crazy that she's a hundred percent batting average in terms of all of the things being confirmed by him as having happened yeah

0:22:54 Lydia: They're trying to like hand wave away the signing of the document of the 17 page

0:23:00 Thomas: Yeah

0:23:00 Lydia: Document, saying that their agreement to not do something they already did not do, were not doing, and had no intention of doing, well, you lawyers because, like, you really should have pushed back on that language there and made it explicit in the document that you were signing that none of this has occurred and that, you know, we're signing this as, you ensure a safe set moving forward because of concerns that it could occur, but none of it has.

0:23:10 Thomas: Speaking of lawyers here's the email that's attached to this. Dear Amin and Joseph, who's Okay. The tentative resolution of the SAG -AFTRA strike, we are writing to address how to handle a return to the set of It Ends With Us. It is no surprise to the film's producers that the experience of shooting the film has been deeply concerning on many levels. Of our client and others have been repeatedly conveyed and well -documented throughout pre -production and photography. We reserve all legal rights, at this stage our client is willing to forego a more formal HR process in favor of everyone returning to work and finishing the film as safe moving forward. Order for our client to feel safe returning to the production, we are attaching a list of protections that will need to be guaranteed and observed by the film's the production is unwilling to accept or uphold hold these protections, our client is prepared to pursue her full legal rights and remedies. This letter is not intended to constitute a full statement of all facts and circumstances relating to this matter. It is not intented to be, nor should it be, construed as a waiver, release, or relinquishment of any of our client's rights or remedies, legal

0:23:27 Lydia: Are probably just Wayfair counsel.

0:24:25 Thomas: Or equitable, all of which are hereby expressly reserved. Sincerely, Lindsay. Strasberg, Esquire. So from the beginning, she's had good lawyering because that, yeah, that's lawyering, It seems to me because she's making clear that this isn't everything and this isn't you signing away any responsibility. This is just, you need to agree to do this for me to return. She's referencing it being being documented along the way. And that that's a lawyer doing that. Do you think a lawyer just made that up? She got lawyers involved and got a lawyer to just kind of lie in a document and it just happened to involve all this stuff that they never did. I mean, it's just silly. That's silly. It's not plausible in the slightest. Let's look at paragraph 71. This is going to go back to the breastfeeding thing. The same text, the same images before, but I think we get like some, some explanations. So why don't you go and read 71?

0:24:43 Lydia: -hmm. And also, as aware, also established very early that it was acceptable to be present while Lively was breastfeeding. Both Heath and Baldoni have children and are comfortable around breastfeeding mothers, and Lively seemed equally comfortable. In fact, Baldoni's wife co -founded a company that makes a breastfeeding garment, a prototype that originated with his mother when he was a baby. Want to pause here because we're going to get into pumping in a second. But this breastfeeding thing, we've talked about this before, but consent in one situation does not mean consent for all situations, right? I mean, there are plenty of times where, you I'm having a really rough time, like when I was breastfeeding the kids, where ,you something's painful. I don't want people watching me like, like you

0:25:45 Thomas: Not okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:25:58 Lydia: Know wince

0:25:58 Thomas: Are you trying to latch over and over?

0:25:58 Lydia: And yeah and or I'm like bleeding that day or something like I'm going through you damage to my nipple like like there are certainly plenty of days where it's like I need more privacy today because it's not going well it

0:26:11 Thomas: And call me nitpicking beta cuck. But Heath and Baldoni have children. They are comfortable around breastfeeding. I don't that's nothing to do with it has nothing to do with their comfort. I mean, it's just so silly. I would never like I you might as well say like, oh, well, I can be in the shower with you. I have a wife and, you know, I've been in the shower with her, so I can I'm comfortable showering with.

0:26:15 Lydia: Has nothing to do with them no I yeah I'm comfortable around naked women's

0:26:34 Thomas: Yeah. Like, what are you talking about? Doesn't it's just neither neither here nor there. And a worrying way of looking at it. Like, if the thing that you think is a problem is you that that like, oh, no, it's about your comfort with with being around it, not her privacy and comfort. And what what you just said, like what if she even wants to be around people in that time? Time that's all it is that's all it has nothing to do with you at whatsoever yeah

0:26:35 Lydia: Bodies yeah yeah yeah also her legal rights in a workplace to have that privacy uh breastfeed or pump yeah

0:27:04 Thomas: Now that now you can look at how this is described because again it's the same text but described differently

0:27:08 Lydia: And as revealed in a text message yeah in a text massage exchange between baldoni and lively less than two weeks into filming, Lively invited Baldoni to her trailer to rehearse lines while she was pumping breast milk. Now alleges in the CRD complaint that Baldoni and or Heath would enter her makeup trailer of their own volition while she Was breastfeeding. Notably, breastfeeding was an activity she often conducted openly in the presence of both Baldoni And Heath, including during production meetings.

0:27:11 Thomas: Revealed then it shows us the messages we can go back to that but it's it's already what it was we already went over that I'm just pumping in my trailer if you want to work out our lines and then again it says I'm here I'll meet you in here and make up so he didn't go he into there. There. That, that isn't what he's saying at all. We've already, we, we won't reiterate that, but once you go to 72 and read this, man,

0:27:54 Lydia: In the CRD complaint, published published in part by The Times, Lively suggests Heath walked in her trailer unannounced while, quote, in state of undress and topless, which is false. Heath was invited into her trailer along with a female producer, Baldoni, and a Sony representative for a meeting requested by Lively. Heath arrived first to see if Lively was ready for the meeting and after knocking and being invited in, saw that Lively Was breastfeeding. She was not topless. She was having makeup removed from her collarbone while fully covered. Wait, so she was breastfeeding and also having makeup remove?

0:28:27 Thomas: Was breastfeeding and having makeup removed, according to him.

0:28:30 Lydia: And then saying she was not topless, well, but she did have a boob out.

0:28:32 Thomas: And she requested a meeting. Think

0:28:37 Lydia: Asked if they should return at a later time. Lively said no, they could move forward with the meeting as initially planned and would meet them after she finished removing makeup. Roughly two weeks later, Lively announced that she thought she had seen Heath make eye eye contact with her. Heath immediately apologized and said he hadn't even realized he looked her way, in response to which Lively remarked, quote, I know you weren't trying to cop a look. Reference to this incident conveniently showed up on a document months later, distorted like the others and out of context, in a list that the Times later published as fact.

0:29:10 Thomas: They say here's her allegations that's not them publishing it as fact like you can't just make that a thing um I mean this is kind of a factual mess like I I don't really like it sounds like this is several different things combined to me um here's her version of it in her complaint to make matters worse when lively tried to have a meeting with mr heath and the other producers to discuss mr baldoni's unprofessional behavior described above that meeting turned into yet another violation rather than an ordinary meeting time and place mr heith arrived unannounced at miss lively's hair and makeup trailer while she she was topless and having body makeup removed by makeup artists. Lively told Mr. Heath that she was almost done and they could meet once she was clothed, Mr. Heath, however, insisted that if she did not allow him into her trailer to speak to him at that moment, then there would be no meeting with the other producers. Lively reluctantly agreed, but asked that Mr. Heath keep his back turned. A few minutes into the conversation, Ms. Lively noticed that Mr Heath was staring directly at her while she was topless. When she called him out, Mr. Heath brushed it off as a habit of wanting to look at a person while speaking to them. Miss Lively and her hair and makeup artists were all deeply disturbed by this interaction on just the second day, just the second day of filming.

0:30:20 Lydia: So one of these people is flat out lying because

0:30:25 Thomas: Keeps going a little bit throughout filming paragraph 64 again of Blake's complaint throughout filming Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath invaded Miss Litely's privacy by entering her makeup trailer uninvited while she was undressed, including when she was is breastfeeding her infant child. Ms. Lively often had to work while breastfeeding, which she felt comfortable doing so long as she was given the time and space to cover herself. She did this frequently because she was not given breaks feed her baby. Ms. Lively did not expect or consent to anyone entering her private spaces while topless, exposed, and vulnerable with her newborn or during body makeup application or removal. Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath both showed a shocking lack of boundaries by invading her personal space when was undressed and vulnerable yeah

0:31:02 Lydia: So that previous situation that the body makeup removal um is just flat out Because there is from Lively's complaint saying that she said she's almost done. We can meet once I'm clothed. And that Jamie Heath said that you Don't let him into the trailer to speak at that moment then there would be no meeting with the other producers she agreed to that whereas in the wayfarer complaint heath asked if they should return at a later time lively said no they could move forward with the meeting as initially planned would meet them after she finished removing makeup yeah yeah

0:31:35 Thomas: What's so funny is because even in theirs it says would meet them after like isn't that weird like

0:31:41 Lydia: Paragraph

0:31:41 Thomas: You say heath was invited into her trailer along with a female producer baldoni and a sony representative for a meeting requested by lively mr heath arrived first to see if lively Lively was ready, and after knocking and being invited in, saw that Lively was breastfeeding. She was not topless. Was having makeup removed. Well, in her version, wasn't she not breastfeeding? She was just having makeup removed, and in his version, she's both breastfeeding and having makeup removed from her collarbone, which, I mean, that sounds weird. I guess it's possible, but like, I don't, feel I like this might be two different events that he's combining, but then, as As you read, Heath asked if they should return at a later time. Lively said, no, they can move forward with the meeting as initially planned and would meet them after she finished removing makeup. What?

0:32:01 Lydia: Having makeup makeup removed. Yeah. Yeah,

0:32:26 Thomas: Even in their own version of it, in Heath's own version of it. Said, No, let's have the meeting. I'll meet you after I'm done with this. Meaning that sounds like she doesn't want him to be there. Like even in their own version, admitting that she said meet them after.

0:32:25 Lydia: Don't get out. Hmm.

0:32:42 Thomas: We've got two versions, one in which Blake Lively's an insane person doing insane person things, and the other in which they are invading her privacy and she's having a normal person reaction to her privacy being invaded, is more likely to you. Think if you take a dim view of women, then maybe the first one is more likely, but the first one doesn't make any sense. And the second one makes sense. Like even in their own version. Again, she said she would meet them after she finished. So me, her version way more plausible.

0:33:11 Lydia: Their version also has have their setup to say that Blake Lively didn't want Jamie Heath making eye contact Like, don't look me in the eyes. Wayfarer's in paragraph 73, it says roughly two weeks later, Lively announced that she thought she had seen Heath make eye contact with her. Like makes her seem like so incredibly elitist and weird. Like that's the concern.

0:33:35 Thomas: This is great because in, in their version, this is so funny. Again, their version. She's not even undressed. Was having makeup removed while breastfeeding and fully covered. And then she's like, you made eye contact with me.

0:33:41 Lydia: While covered. And Heath immediately apologized and said he hadn't even realized he looked her way.

0:33:53 Thomas: So sorry. Believe I made eye contact with you, Highness.

0:33:57 Lydia: Yeah and like while he's also trying to say like hey are you ready for the meeting but then he's not going to look at her when he says hey are you ready for the meeting. Like, he's I don't know. I don' t know.

0:34:06 Thomas: Their version is is incomprehensible uh and makes blake into an insane person her version makes sense is consistent and sucks and explains why she was so fucking mad at these people it makes it's just way more plausible yeah that's a great call by you because in his version what's the problem with the eye contact that she's fully dressed what does it matter her that doesn't make any sense oh

0:34:29 Lydia: Ll tell you how the internet has spun that, that hates Black people, she' s racist. Will say, you know, she and Ryan Reynolds got married on a plantation.

0:34:37 Thomas: There's the yeah there is that yeah

0:34:39 Lydia: Not great. She really likes antebellum, like, fashion and stuff. I d' n't know there.

0:34:43 Thomas: I mean we could we could talk about that they definitely said they regret it they don't let you know

0:34:47 Lydia: There. Yeah, yeah. But have taken this as Jamie Heath is the only Black man here. And she did not want him making eye contact with her.

0:34:55 Thomas: I that's not what she said though like I mean you could just make up a thing but the way that makes more sense is that she's like all right but turn your back and then she She notices he's looking at her, which is not having your back turned. And she's like, hey, man, what the fuck? That makes way more sense. And the part about like, I know you weren't trying to cop a look. That just bothers me so much because that's so obviously this thing you're describing, which is like, how does she fucking handle having to have this shit happen to her? Like she has to, you know, kind of play it off. Oh, I knew you weren't trying to have a look, which she means, which he's saying, yes, you were essentially like right. Don't you think that's what that is? That's her saying,

0:35:00 Lydia: According to the Wayfarer complaint. Yeah. -hmm. Yeah. Yeah,

0:35:36 Thomas: Don't do this because I'm saying, no, you know, you weren't trying to do this.

0:35:41 Lydia: I mean, like, they're trying to just get through it, right? And deal with it and get through through it and you're interacting with the president of the studio that this movie. Who is incredibly close to the director slash her co -star. She's just in an impossible situation there. You obviously would just say something to kind of just push through it and move on and get it all over with as soon as you can.

0:36:12 Thomas: Then it goes on to say once again, like for the 10th time, oh, they never did any of that behavior and they just signed it because they were under so much pressure with the financial costs of the strikes. And so that's where they just did it. They went along with it, you I want to talk about this stuff so uh you can read 75 hmm

0:36:30 Lydia: Was agreed that filming would resume on January 5th, 2024. the evening of January 4th, 2024, Baldoni, Heath, and producers Todd Black is the producer that Blake Lively had requested in that 17 -item list that Sony, you brought to the project, basically. Alex Sachs, and the film's first AD, were invited to Lively and Reynolds' penthouse in New York City. They for the next day's filming, prepared with their production materials. They were blindsided by Lively and Reynolds, who presented a list of grievances that were both unanticipated and troubling. Launched into a tirade, berating Baldoni in what Baldoni later described as a, quote, traumatic encounter, stating he had, quote never been spoken to like that in his life. Reynolds demanded an apology to Lively for actions that were mischaracterized and demonstrably false. See below.

0:37:29 Thomas: Sorry, what is the C below? Did you?

0:37:31 Lydia: Don't know what the C below is. I would anticipate a text message or a screenshot of something. Yeah, there's no footnote. There's no image. And like at the next couple paragraphs, I don't even see like a particular action that was mischaracterized.

0:37:33 Thomas: Just a C below and there's no footnote. Yeah. There's nothing to do with this. So there's just A C below with nothing. I just want to say right away he's saying january 4th they're having a meeting and it was like whoa list of grievances that was unanticipated and troubling, the email we read you is dated in November.

0:38:03 Thomas: So, I mean, I guess if they, if they want to say that the lawyers never gave them the email, but I just, I find that very unlikely.

0:38:13 Thomas: Nope. This is the 17. That I mean the one that they had in November is the $17,000 one. If they're trying to say that the 30 30 point list, that might be what they're trying to do is to say, well, okay, 17 items about us being insane sexual harassers, that's fine. But the 30 points is way out of nowhere. Like, no, they made very clear they have problems with this.

0:38:38 Lydia: Yeah. Baldoni resisted apologizing for what he had not done, Reynolds became further enraged. Everyone, including the producer Lively had asked production to engage and a representative of Sony that was in attendance, left that meeting in shock. And they put meeting in quotes. The producer offered that in his 40 year career, he had never seen anyone speak to someone like that in a meeting. The Sony representative mentioned that she would often think of that meeting and her one regret is that she didn't stop Reynolds berating of Baldoni.

0:39:05 Thomas: This is interesting. I is a place where I want to know more because

0:39:09 Lydia: Like to get some declarations from these other folks or they're going to be deposed, like I wish I could see that stuff to their characterization of the meeting. Could say for we're talking about human beings, right? Right. So Ryan Reynolds, this stuff has been piling up and piling up and he's had enough. Right. And so, yeah, maybe he lost his cool. Like it. Seems like he may have lost his cool. Todd Black and the Sony rep, like know if they know much at all. So for them, they're probably like, where is this coming from? What the hell?

0:39:34 Thomas: Much do they know about it at this point? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Mm

0:39:41 Lydia: I mean, I'm sure Todd Black knew that there were issues on set like that's why he's being called in to to serve in this capacity and represent lively in this way but I don't know if he would have known the minutiae of everything in every single you know situation and and grievance in quotes or whatever um the sony rep might be a similar situation as well um they knew like there are problems on this set but they didn't know all of the specifics um all ofthe details and obviously ryan reynolds is experiencing all of the specifics and all of the details as told to him by his wife you know I'll be fair but could explain why there were such disparate reactions in this yeah

0:40:20 Thomas: And I just I think we need more information. I'm to the idea that like maybe he took it too far and that's because like if who's specifically been brought in because of this is like wow that was too far then I'll listen to that. That. I'll hear that. You know, like I'm interested. So I don't know. Have no idea what the Sony representative knows, really. One regret is that she didn't stop Reynolds berating Baldoni. I don' t know. You open and interested to what they have to say. I don t know when we'll see that, if ever, but it's interesting. Maybe it could entirely be that that Ryan Reynolds went too far and took this too far and maybe didn't handle it in the best way in this moment. Wouldn't invalidate that was a problem, but it might mean that, hey, he took it too far in this instance. And yeah, I'm curious. Him. Yeah, I wish wir could ask the producer and the representative because this be totally honest or this could be a distortion. I could easily see this being a distortion distortion, because it could be quotes they had in ways that were perhaps, maybe he was saying like, wow, this is a big deal, man. I've never seen anyone speak to someone like that. Sounds like you fucked up. Like, it could have been that, right? I mean, that's a possible interpretation. Sony one's a little harder to explain. I don't, he's I representing that accurately that she would often think of that meeting and her one regret is that that she didn't stop Reynolds berating and Baldoni. Don't know why she would say that. I, I don't even know why in his version she would SAY that. Cause like, why would she stop him? Like, what is, you know, it's just kind of weird.

0:41:46 Lydia: Don't know like Sony and Wayfair to be two studios on this film like you would kind of hope that they would also be committed to, you know, a professional environment and stuff. And like, if you see mistreatment, like speaking up.

0:41:58 Thomas: that'S fair. Or I mean, it could be a thing where perhaps one or both of these people that he's quoting, maybe they thought this conversation should take place in private or something. I don't know. Or maybe they thought that's not going to be productive. Could be it. Maybe they thought it's not going to be productive. I want to hear more.

0:42:08 Lydia: Yeah, it could be. Yeah.

0:42:17 Thomas: Right. Paragraph tries to make a lot out of the fact that it's like a, it's a, well, why don't we just read it? I guess you could read, yeah, just read 76. Why not?

0:42:26 Lydia: The very first page of her CRD complaint, Lively inaccurately claims that a list of 30 items was agreed upon during this meeting. This assertion is categorically false. The 30 -point list is strategically positioned to appear as if it were a standalone written document. No such document was ever presented to Baldoni, the Wayfair team, or, to their knowledge, anyone else, whether during that meeting or at any other time, and therefore could not have been agreed to. In reality, many of these items were encountered for the first time in the CRD complaint itself and highly disturbing events that never occurred. The repeated use of the phrase, quote, no more before each demand falsely suggests that these alleged incidents had previously taken place and needed to cease. This implication is not only misleading, but entirely untrue.

0:43:17 Thomas: I will grant to Baldoni team that the complaint certainly suggests that like these were the items they agreed on but I don't really think it's that much of like some sort of deception it says after the list below was reviewed and discussed in its entirety all parties present agreed that the outline conduct would cease um right after that says this meeting was an essential step in a process the parties had agreed to several months before to allow cast and crew to safely resume production of the film. In mid -November, the parties had agreed in writing to implement a list of protections enumerated in a contract called Protections for Return to Production attached here to his Exhibit A, which included, and even said, it doesn't like just, you know, hide it in an exhibit. It even says, which excluded 17 provisions designed to require Wayfarer to cease the onset behavior of Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath. One of the provisions is about this very meeting, as we talked about before. So I don't know. I mean, I wouldn't blame someone for like confusing the two lists and thinking this is the one they agreed to. But I don'T really think it's quite fair to say Lively is intentionally being here. Um she even says 17 provisions yeah

0:44:31 Lydia: I we were comparing the 30 point list and the 17 point list, it really felt like the 30 Point list is, you not meant to be like contractual. It's not meant to be any sort of like legally binding document. It was detailing the grievances that Blake Lively had had, the situations that that felt were uncomfortable or others felt were uncomfortable or inappropriate. The 17 point list is it's far more formal and definitely feels like lawyers drafted that. I don't think lawyers drafted this 30 point list. Right. I think this is probably Blake writing it or Blake and Ryan or something of that nature, right?

0:45:04 Thomas: It could have been their agenda for the meeting of things to make sure they talked about yeah

0:45:09 Lydia: Yeah, exactly. And so I think they serve two different purposes.

0:45:12 Thomas: The 30 point list is like more specific examples yeah whole thing is just, it doesn't matter because like the 30 point list does, it's not like the 17 point list was nothing. And the 30 pointless is like a bunch of crazy stuff. They're both pretty fucking insane. Like they're both very serious. The 30 point list for sure. Like has more instances. So I

0:45:33 Lydia: It includes things like when Baldoni would speak to Blake Lively's dead father, right. That's in the 30 -point list, but not in the 17 -point called out specifically.

0:45:42 Thomas: Know. And it's, and it's

0:45:43 Lydia: Yeah, it is so specific what

0:45:44 Thomas: So specific. I mean, nobody is making that up. Like, that's just not something anyone would make up, you think we've already gone through this, and the list they agreed to, they signed in writing, is already bad enough. I mean it's not really substantively that different. Problems and the elaborations in the 30 -point list are very specific, and me that reads as very plausible. They're just kind of expanding on like already like one point in the 17 list that they're just expanding on it.

0:46:02 Lydia: Here

0:46:17 Thomas: Yeah.

0:46:17 Lydia: Are several examples of it yeah yeah

0:46:18 Thomas: I just don't if I think your trying to hang your hat on this, you just don't really think it does that much like it like okay, so you're only guilty of the 17 point list you signed, you know, versus the just as bad 30 point list is maybe a little bit worse, I guess it's more specific. Know. I think they're taking advantage of the fact that, um, didn't sign on these items and maybe this was just presented in the meeting. And so if there's no proof of that, they can just say, well, no such document was ever presented, but I, right. Strikes me as trying to fight everything anywhere you can find any room to fight something but okay I mean sure you only agreed to the 17 point list of deeply disturbing behavior oh

0:46:55 Lydia: Phrase no more I know people on Reddit, like, felt that this was also very calculated of Blake Lively that, because that's the name of the foundation that had the 1 % earmarked for them. You Know, they're rubbing it in Justin Baldoni's face. You like a cold and calculated, youknow, that they decided to use here. So,

0:47:08 Thomas: I okay or it's also just the words that you'd have to use I mean and not all of them even use that um most of them but not all them um it's not as though the other one is that substantially different in terms it says like you know no one will enter a tent, you know, there are to be no discussions. You know, it's not like it's different really substantively. I don't, I don' know.

0:47:21 Lydia: Not all of them. Yeah, just a moment to say the Internet is looking for whatever they can find.

0:47:41 Thomas: And maybe that was an intentional decision in terms of like trying to be reminiscent of that. I do not see why that be like a bad thing. Was bad behavior that they should not have done. So, once again, for like the fifth time, they're saying they're just so pressured by the power dynamics at play that they had to sign it because there's just no way they could not sign it, I just don't I don't buy that. You've got lawyers involved. You were not guilty of any of this, you're not signing this. I mean, you're just not. You counter with your own document that's like, well, how about we agree to this in language that's, like, way more what, in in your view, it is. And the fact that they didn't do that means they're either idiots.

0:47:43 Lydia: Knows? Hmm. Yeah, a revision. Mm hmm, they didn't even try. Eye

0:48:21 Thomas: Yeah. Or they're guilty of a bunch of stuff and felt like, Well, shit, we're back to the wall here because we did a bunch about stuff that could also be what it is, I

0:48:28 Lydia: Like were in the same situation now however the 17 point document was you know presented to wayfarer in november and they responded with a revision and blake lively said absolutely not and then wayfarers eventually like was like fine I'll sign do you feel like you would interpret the situation differently I would give them a little more benefit of the doubt like Like if they tried to.

0:48:51 Thomas: Don't know. No, yeah, maybe. And I think that if this was really stuff that didn't actually happen, first of all, once again, I have to say it, that makes Blake Lively insane. Turns her into an insane person who came up with a very hyper specific list of stuff that she wanted to stop happening that didn'T happen, which is insane. And if it genuinely didn'T happened, then lawyers would be like, you're not signing. Just say you're going to have to call her bluff because this is insane, like just say no, thanks. Banks will agree to maintain the safe work environment. We already have balls in your court because you can't. I mean, it's just it's silly. Like you can argue that like the money demanded that you do it. But I just don't find that plausible because it's Just if it truly was just made up stuff, you're not going to sign that document. You're just not. We're calling it for gavel gavel 17. That's as you heard, we're, we'RE off and just starting to get into that post production phase. So enough of this exciting stuff during the production. Now we get to hear all Baldoni's gripes about how the post production process went. And uh as you can imagine that's super relevant to the new york times it's every time you make the point every single episode it'll be true every episode yeah it's so dumb I'm sorry I didn't write this complaint it's not my fault but of my main takeaways about this I I just have to like pat you on the back for your amazing point about about the onesie discussion, because I, I just think that's such a, dead that's to rights are like, it's just completely the trying, like, makes so much more sense, a lot of what we've gone through and, really clicking in how much more Blake's story how much closer I don't know 100 % but like how much Closer to reality Blake's story seems to be because when you really peel back what Baldoni's saying and you find oh wait this is a whole bunch of stuff that would be really irrational for someone to have done in that moment that means they're trying to lie that means their office skating or they're wrong but a sign of that, because when you're trying to misrepresent and obfuscate, that's what you have to do. Have to kind of take these little moments to confuse. And so the whole point about like, oh, no, I just said sexy because it was a direction about the scene. To your point, it's like if you're going to direct that scene, just say, hey, it'S onesie night. Why is there any conversation

0:50:05 Lydia: And will and we will yeah hmm yeah hmm

0:51:09 Thomas: Other than like and now I'm still confused. I'm curious if we ever learn more about this. I'm confused why she would have ever been wearing a jacket. And she did say, as I read, that was her like wardrobe. So there's something, there's some little fuzziness there that I don't totally get. Maybe it's about different times of the day or something, or maybe there's, there's all kinds of scenes we don't end up seeing. Like maybe there was shots that weren't used. And so we only saw the times that, so who knows what it is, but like, you said, There's a million and one ways to have that conversation in ways that wouldn't have made Blake uncomfortable, wouldn't involve saying sexy and one of all that stuff. So much more plausible that he's trying to, like, explain away why he actually said sexy in kind of a creepy way. And it wasn't about the thing like that that just fits like her story just fits so much. Much more to reality. I think that was such a good point you made. And this episode, like Thinking back, I think this was such a bad section of the complaint for him. Like, one thing, that point you made. Then the breastfeeding text a second time,

0:51:42 Lydia: Thank

0:52:07 Thomas: Like just in case, hey, trying trying this one more time, spoiler alert, everyone, that may not be the last time. The second repetition of the same fucking argument and text thing, which wasn't ever good, we may notbe done with that. Um and like okay if I had to pick my top takeaway from this I it would be your point about the onesie but also there the breastfeeding and the walking on the trailer thing are so much more incriminating the because more I think about the like oh well we're comfortable around breastfeeding mothers It's know I already made the point, but like, the more I think about that, the worse it is. It's we would need to see, what needs to be the case for Baldoni's side to be okay and Blake to be wrong is, this didn't happen.

0:52:07 Lydia: You not I know Yeah. Oh, I know. Right.

0:52:50 Thomas: Like, if she says they would barge into my trailer when I was undressed and when I was breastfeeding, the only possible answer has to be, no we didn't, that never happened. And they know they can't quite do that. They like came up with this weird way of combining all the storylines into one where she was simultaneously putting on makeup, breastfeeding and also clothed.

0:53:11 Thomas: And so it made it insane. Like, and also she said, you know, essentially get out of here, I'll meet you later. And all three, like four of those things together make no sense, makes no sense. And it doesn't even help his case. If he's saying he she still said like, all right, I'm gonna meet you when I'm done with this. That implies don't be in here.

0:53:11 Lydia: And pumping. Mm -hmm.

0:53:28 Thomas: And the fact that their go -to is we're comfortable around, like, just imagine, just fucking imagine dudes, dudes listening, just, make it hit home. Imagine if your wife had her breast out breastfeeding and I walk in and I just am like looking at him like, hey, I'm comfortable around breastfeeding. Are you cool with me? Are you like, oh yeah, no, that's cool. Cool excuse. Great. Great, bro.

0:53:33 Lydia: That doesn't matter. Does not matter.

0:53:53 Thomas: No, it's re it is. Because it would be. This is a fictional me. Don't worry.

0:53:49 Lydia: No, no. Feels real creepy. Know, yeah,

0:53:59 Thomas: Promise. Really keep making that point because so many of the people who are taking down Blake, I think, are men. A lot of them. Not all of them, but I think a lot of whom are. I think they just put blinders on to, like, the reality of these things. And I guarantee you, I guarantee you, if any of these happened things to their wives or partners, they would not make the same excuses. They would absolutely not. They would be like, I'm sorry, you think you can watch my wife breastfeed because you're cool with breastfeeding? Like, are you kidding me? Like no, it's just a joke. It's an absolute joke. The more I think about what we've talked about today in this section, it is so so bad. And I think it's going to get worse. So tune in next time, Gavel Gavel 18, when we're going to start talking about, again, that post -production process. Stuff, some interesting stuff, so useless stuff. You know, I mean, I could say that every episode of his complaint. So thanks so much for listening, everyone. And we'll see you for episode 18.

0:54:26 Lydia: Yeah. They'd be pissed. Give me a note, and then I go, like way too far the other direction. Many graphs did we get through today?

0:55:23 Thomas: I forget because I'm moving something to the other thing. So don't ask me that Schrodinger's graphs. It could be as many as nine or as few as seven, possibly, I think. But,