Lively v. Baldoni 24 - Jen Abel KIDNAPPED! MISSING AND PRESUMED PHONELESS.

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:01 Clip: All rise. Court is now in session. Court is reconvened. I may be seated. Maintain order. The federal rise to face the jury and harken to its verdicts.

0:00:26 Thomas: Gavel gavel, gavel gavel everyone. It's gavel gavel. I'm Thomas. That over there is Lydia. How you doing?

0:00:32 Lydia: I am just feeling real gavily over here. Real gavilly.

0:00:36 Thomas: Just all wired from a long night's chunking. It's part two of the Jen Abel counter-complaint, and I can't decide if that has a hyphen or is one word or is two words. All three of those options seem to be viable on the internet, and I hate that.

0:00:50 Lydia: And also not viable.

0:00:52 Thomas: And also, exactly, more importantly, because like it'll tell me it'll red underline it. I think it's that, but so anyway. In this part, we're going to get into some things. So we're going to get into the criminal allegations, essentially, maybe not literally, but kind of against Stephanie Jones and Jonesworks. And also we are going to Get into, we've had some of these before and I don't know how to rank this one, but one of the more confusing fucking things ever where Lydia and I record for 11 hours and I edit it down to 13 minutes and it's the most labor intensive thing. Trust me when I say it's a good thing that I'm willing to put in that hard labor because because I'll just say, I'm not going to spoil it. Jen Abel's fucking claims don't make sense.

0:01:36 Thomas: And when you try to make sense of things in a good faith way that just are either maybe lies or just wrong, could be just wrong. It's hard.

0:01:44 Lydia: You record for 11 hours for 13 minutes of content.

0:01:46 Thomas: Yeah. When you're like, wait, hold on. But she said over here, wait a minute. But then she said this though. And wait, wait. She said this. So yeah, just, uh, just fun, just a fun little thing. Lydia and I do. This is our marriage. That's what we do. Sorry, some people go on dates. Yeah.

0:01:57 Lydia: Go on romantic dates, stare into each other's eyes, and we talk about Yeah.

0:02:05 Thomas: We argue about what the fuck Jen Abel is claiming. And you're all here for it. All one of you. No, really excited for this. Also excited, again, in a few episodes to get to MJ Morley to talk about the law of this. That's still upcoming. And even a few more episodes later, speaking with actual Stephanie Jones's lawyers themselves. So excited for that.

0:02:27 Lydia: Maren Shaw and Kristen Toller. They're coming on.

0:02:30 Thomas: That's proof that this is true because you know their names.

0:02:32 Lydia: I do know their names.

0:02:33 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. There's no other way you could know. All right. Well, let's get to the drama that is Jen Abel's kidnapping. Is it okay to call her Jen?

0:02:40 Lydia: You're going to have to talk to her fiance about that.

0:02:44 Thomas: Not this again. Not this again.

0:02:53 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:02:53 Thomas: So it talks about how like, oh, she's about to leave. And as her end date grew closer, then it says Jones grew more combative and she's been removed from client and email distribution list. Like if someone's leaving, I do think that you would transition them out. Yeah.

0:03:05 Lydia: It's a transition, right? Mm hmm. Yeah,

0:03:07 Thomas: So who knows?

0:03:07 Lydia: But we do get screenshots from a computer, I think. Blank um right

0:03:10 Thomas: Through a window screen through a pair of nylons through it it's like this grid action is everyone involved in this except for I guess I'll give the most professional people we've seen seem to be blake lively's lawyers because they've got and I suppose that comes from jones's production of the text so that's all in the like professional production software format and everything else I get that, like, they haven't done Discovery, so they just have text pictures, but, like This is so bad and stupid Like, they look so bad It's like, you took a picture of a picture Of a picture through a pair of socks Check this out! It's, like What is this?

0:03:50 Lydia: So this is a conversation between jen abel and jones works chief of staff you know obviously redacted here and this conversation starts august 7th hi sorry to bug but I'm on the blank call and the team let me know he put the notice in to go on hiatus end of month is this final or just a break and I was removed from the alias is there a plan to to tell these clients I've resigned or can I start letting them know because I don't want it to seem like I'm just stopping responding out of nowhere. And team blank and team blank and blank and blank.

0:04:10 Thomas: Question mark Just other clients, I guess Yeah,

0:04:25 Lydia: Yeah, I think so. Was this not going to be a conversation prior? Now I feel like I need to protect myself and make these clients and partners aware.

0:04:32 Thomas: Protect yourself is a weird So, like protect her reputation That she wasn't, like Just abandoning them?

0:04:34 Lydia: Yeah. It is weird that she's just not ghosting them.

0:04:40 Thomas: But, I don't know You work at another company and, okay It's a little

0:04:42 Lydia: Yeah the chief of staff responds. Hi, I only just removed you from those aliases a few minutes ago. You're still on Justin, etc. I'm not sure what you mean by protecting yourself as the teams have been actively covering the accounts and handling all day -to -day operations and client interactions part of our timing of when to communicate with clients is guided by our collective decisions as a team we discuss sharing news with the clients on monday august 19th so basically the week of that she would be leaving jennifer abel responds you know that's not true but that's okay I really have respect for you blank I'm guessing their name and know what you have to deal with because you've shared that with me but I'm also a real person and and there's no job worth treating someone disrespectfully. I'm back in town on Monday, and I need to get my number back and pay for my device, so let's handle that then. Thanks. Chief of staff responds, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, Jen. If you feel disrespected, then I apologize. And then this part is underlined in red. Regarding your phone, we can give it back to you your last week. Yeah.

0:05:12 Thomas: Weird okay okay so they have the phone then already on august 7th do we know that is that

0:05:46 Lydia: No, I thought she turned it in. Yeah.

0:05:47 Thomas: Because I thought she said that it was like they accosted me and made me turn it over guarding your phone unless he means your phone number no yeah well it could be because okay so august 19th then so

0:05:54 Lydia: No. I need it. I need you to get your number back and pay for my device. Yeah, maybe it just does mean the phone number. Few hours later no response

0:06:01 Thomas: Now maybe so augus 19th morning can we please this is from jen morning can мы please handle switching my phone over today I'm having to fly home now on friday and today is really my only free day to do so please let me know if that's possible thank you and they say morning I'll call verizon thanks so much and then it looks like a few hours later that around lunchtime hey just checking in I am leaving the office soon for a meeting but I can stop by verizon on the way possible to make the call so I can do so no response and then an hour later

0:06:31 Lydia: Uh no two days later no it says wednesday august 21st

0:06:37 Thomas: Sorry or is that a four no is that oh yeah wednesday okay hey blank were you able to release my phone I am headed back to verizon and they said I need an email that will apparently be sent once released, but I'm not sure if it was sent to Jonesworks. If possible for you to send to my personal email, I really can't be without a phone and I've had that number since high school. Please let me know so I can drive back there.

0:06:57 Lydia: And we get some narrative following those text messages explaining that when she joined jones works in 2020 she ported her existing phone number and used a jonesworks issued iphone with her personal phone number I don't know why she did

0:07:12 Thomas: I guess, yeah, not wanting to have two phones.

0:07:14 Lydia: That is just a bad idea folks

0:07:17 Thomas: It is annoying to have 2 phones, but yeah, it's a bad idea. Well, also, isn't there a better way to do that? Where like, couldn't she have been in control of this? Yeah, because don't you just get a new phone and then you say, this phone is my my number now and that's like it right I mean it doesn't

0:07:32 Lydia: I donno and like she could could have also had it set up where she has a work the issued work phone with an associated work number kept her personal phone and phone number private and then set up call forwarding text forwarding like she still could have conducted business you know on her personal bone to make it easier but then wouldn't have lost her phone number as a result

0:07:51 Thomas: Yeah I still don't get it because it says ported her existing phone number to a jonesworks issued iphone

0:07:58 Lydia: That's just so crazy to me I would not want a work phone to have my personal pictures on it

0:08:03 Thomas: Yeah it's like what it's one thing it's not like I get I don't know how much anyone knows about this I'm not saying I'm an expert but like who knows if she's just a total tech like just noob can't do anything there's some of those people just have no idea how anything works but like even if you port your phone number or whatever you do not have to move all of your personal contacts photos private conversations with friends and family you don't have to remove all that to a work phone I

0:08:03 Lydia: That is so crazy yeah well it's just like in the cloud associated with her number yeah

0:08:26 Thomas: Mean that's weird all for what like to save a thousand dollars or something I guess by using that phone I don't it's just I don'T get

0:08:34 Lydia: Yeah with her significant salary that she was making yeah I don't know it seems crazy

0:08:39 Thomas: Yeah, knowing that she would have to turn over the physical device upon her departure I'll be able to arrange for a phone number to be released so she could port to a new device and retain decades' worth of personal number to be released so it's almost like the phone, what?

0:08:52 Lydia: I don't have no idea

0:08:53 Thomas: So she's on their like phone plan with her phone number. It's not like a, yeah, this is not right.

0:08:56 Lydia: Yeah like like instead of with mom and dad now she's Stephanie Jones is paying for her phone number

0:09:01 Thomas: This is not, oh, there's a device that belongs to Jonesworks.

0:09:05 Lydia: Yeah she joined Stephanie Jones's cell phone plan yeah

0:09:06 Thomas: This is, she's in her Verizon. Yeah, it's like, what, why would they have the number? Because I guess it does make sense in that light. Like if instead of like, oh it's just a Jonesworks issued iPhone and you know, I put my, made it so my number works. Instead of like that, it is like, now I am on your unlimited plan and yeah this is very weird I don't get it and

0:09:23 Lydia: That is so weird I donT need to have my boss know like when I'm making calls like like the number of minutes I'm spending talking to whatever phone numbers that is So invasive.

0:09:33 Thomas: That is very weird look let me know if I have something off anyone who's again I'm not I'm an expert but I'm somewhat tech savvy and that seems off like I don'T know why that would be how it was very

0:09:46 Lydia: And on the other end of it, too, I don't know why that would be a service that an employer would even offer. Just offer them like like a stipend. Just give them money for their phone usage.

0:09:51 Thomas: Weird yeah yeah yeah I true I donT get it that's a I DON'T know why this happened I don' t know I DON' T understand any part of it so she's saying it's two -factor authentication maybe that's what she means where it's like in order to just have access to her stuff and in general she needs to be able to access her phone number does that mean but says and retain decades worth of personal contacts photos it's not like you lose that

0:09:58 Lydia: What in the world? Yeah. Yeah. To authorize it.

0:10:21 Lydia: Yeah, how does that work? Because I'm not an iPhone user. So if things are on iCloud, it's associated with an email, right? It's not necessarily just the phone number.

0:10:27 Thomas: You have an iCloud like email address yeah like you can have two-factor authentication I actually don't even know what the fuck she's talking about like okay I'm I'm so baffled I'm I'm going to get my iPhone. What would that be? So if you have your I...

0:10:42 Lydia: You're going to sign on to someone else's plan.

0:10:45 Thomas: Yeah. Any volunteers from the audience? Okay, if I go to iCloud, I go to Science Security. Mine's an email. It also has a number. Okay, I'm going to go to two-factor authentication. Wait, yeah, no, okay. Now maybe I'm a little weird. But when I go to two factor... No, when I go to Two Factor, it gives me a phone book of options that I have to do because it's every Mac or Apple device I've ever had and still have. So this seems incredibly bullshit because unless she's never had another Apple device, like I could go to my iPhone 6 and verify because two -factor means let's go to another place to verify you.

0:11:01 Lydia: You've like four factor authentication. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

0:11:29 Thomas: There is conceivably websites or whatever security where it'd be like, you have to authorize using your phone number. And in order to mess with that, to change it, it would make sense that you would need to agree on your phone. Like, Hey, we're passing this off, I guess. But like, when it comes to, when I just am going to the, I'm taking an iPhone, I'M just looking at this and I'm going to the two factor. I can verify the phone number is just one of an embarrassing number of options. Cause I have all my Apple devices ever that I've ever had

0:11:20 Lydia: Yeah. Right. Do you think she ever went to the Genius Bar to

0:11:58 Thomas: Yet.

0:11:58 Lydia: Like ask about this? Because, I mean, she talks about going to Verizon to try and get this resolved. But like if it's associated with your iCloud email address, I feel like they probably could have helped at the Apple Store, too.

0:12:09 Thomas: There's just no way. Like there's so many other ways to do this because I have a email that's mine. Then I have an iCloud email that they like gave me. And then, And yeah.

0:12:18 Lydia: Yeah, I have one of those from a million years ago and I have no idea what it is.

0:12:20 Thomas: And then I even see like, and it's not as though this caught her off guard because she had said like, oh, she arranged for this, et cetera, et cetera. Unless they, wait, did they, okay. Did they steal in quotes her device way earlier then? Is that the issue?

0:12:35 Lydia: That seems crazy because then that means that she was traveling without a phone to New York.

0:12:40 Thomas: When was that?

0:12:40 Lydia: So like when she's talking to the chief of staff, she's saying August 19th, she says that she's flying home on that Friday. So I think that's indicating because we know she lives in L .A. So she's not flying L .E. to L .S. She says she's at the office. So I'm guessing she's At the New York office for Jones works. That would be insane if she's going through security and her boarding pass and everything. She has no phone. She has No Way of Communicating with Anybody. I would find it really hard to believe that they physically have her phone during that.

0:13:09 Thomas: No, it can't be because then later this makes, this, this makes absolute, she is so full of shit unless I'm really missing something. And maybe I am on August 21st.

0:13:21 Lydia: She still has her phone because she's talking to them.

0:13:23 Thomas: Wait, yeah, what is that? Well, that could be laptop iMessage, I suppose, I guess. But then again, if this is her iMessage, yeah.

0:13:29 Lydia: Then she has access to all that stuff.

0:13:32 Thomas: Unless it's going through her email, but then if that's all linked to your iMESSAGE, then that defeats the purpose anyway. Yeah. That's nothing. This is really weird. Okay. Let's just read this. We already did the 19th. She's saying, hey, can we please handle switching over my phone? What does that mean? Switching it over. Okay, what did she say before? She said, I'm back in town Monday. I need to get my number back and

0:13:36 Lydia: Then you have access to All of Your Contacts and stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

0:13:54 Thomas: Pay for my device.

0:13:56 Lydia: So I think she's saying like, no, I think she's buying a new phone herself, but she needs to port the number from the Jonesworks issued phone.

0:13:56 Thomas: Does that mean she's buying the phone from them?

0:14:05 Thomas: Why would she say and pay for my device then? Why is she telling him I need my new number? Oh, and by the way, I have to pay Verizon for my devices. That doesn't make sense. I almost wonder.

0:14:11 Lydia: I don't know. It's not information that he needs or he or she needs to know.

0:14:16 Thomas: I don't know though because I'm back in town Monday. So let's handle that then. If that's her getting a new phone that doesn't make sense. You wouldn't tell this person and you get my number back. Oh, and also I need to pay for the phone I'm buying from Verizon. That's not connected to anything.

0:14:32 Lydia: I would find it really weird for her to be like, let me buy this old phone off of you, rather than just buying a new phone and porting her number back over. And I think this is just oversharing. Like, this is something the chief of staff doesn't care about, and she's just like, here's my plan for Monday.

0:14:48 Thomas: So she still has the phone. She's using the phone now, but it's under their plan. It has to be. Okay.

0:14:52 Lydia: I agree with that. I'm just saying that when she's saying, pay for my device, I don't think that means that she's going to buy the phone off them. Paragraph 68. 68 paragraph 68 it says knowing that she would have to turn over the physical device upon her departure able arrange for her phone number to be her phone Number to be released so she could port it to a new device I really think she's buying a new phone she wants her phone No released and she just said pay for my device and

0:15:18 Thomas: Were you able to release my phone?

0:15:21 Lydia: I think she means her number

0:15:22 Thomas: I guess I'm headed back to Verizon. They said I need an email that will be sent once it's released, but I'm not sure if it was sent to Jonesworks. I can't be without a a phone yes

0:15:33 Lydia: I think She is getting a new phone regardless so she like doesn't want to have to wait for her old number and establish a new number and so she's trying to like appeal to like I've had that number since high school I'd really like to keep my number. None of it makes any sense.

0:15:44 Thomas: But then here's what doesn't make sense she has the phone this whole time we but we all agree on that right she has da phone because it says on august 21st two days before her last day abel pulled up to the jones works blah blah it says a lot of stuff and then it says they made her hand over her phone so she had it the whole time so she wasn't without a phone it's just that the number that's her saying the number needed to be under her custody which I get but if If that's true, then here's what's killing me. If that'S true, then the entire time she could go to iCloud, which is not Verizon, which is a different thing.

0:16:20 Thomas: Apple's a different things. And say, hey, let me change or add something to my two factor. Take this number off of it and you're not gonna lose anything.

0:16:20 Lydia: My two -factor authentication. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Add

0:16:32 Thomas: Or if not take it off of, just again, add something else. Yeah, so like some part of this makes no sense. And there's no,

0:16:35 Lydia: Another email address that, yeah, that can be the two - factor. Add your fiance's phone number.

0:16:41 Thomas: There's, yeah, Yeah. There's like, there's not really any one thing that makes it make sense other than maybe she's clueless about technology or maybe she is like, I mean, is it also like you're trying to create a sense of urgency when you're asking someone to do something? So you're sort of exaggerating, I'll be without a phone. I won't have, you know, it could be that there are a lot of ways that we communicate that are not straightforward.

0:16:55 Lydia: Yeah could be. Especially via text.

0:17:03 Thomas: Sure. I guess I will say, here's what I think I can conclude for certain. The bullshit about the, oh, the access to the the private conversations, decades worth, like that is bullshit and can't be right because we know she had her phone. You can copy, you don't need the phone number. Like I have my old phones. I don't have a phone number, I can copy them right now. I can get all the data from them and it's not even that hard. It's not like you have to be a genius to figure it out.

0:17:30 Thomas: Like it doesn't, so like that all is an exaggeration or she was just incredibly wrong about it and is still sticking to it for sympathy.

0:17:37 Lydia: Well and everyone else who helped prepare this also.

0:17:39 Thomas: It seems bullshit though. Jonesworks chief of staff has assured her multiple times in writing that Jonesworks would cooperate and uphold their agreement. Is that just the text she's referring to?

0:17:48 Lydia: Yeah I think so. That's the only evidence that's been provided anyway.

0:17:51 Thomas: I find it weird that they're both saying your phone every single time and not your phone number.

0:17:57 Lydia: I just think it's It's an imprecise approach to texting. I think it's something that we've seen in a lot of other text messages, especially from some of these same folks, where their texts don't quite make 100 % sense. Yeah.

0:17:58 Thomas: Not a single time. The real struggle is that I was trying to make sense of how she could possibly not have the ability to just get all her personal crap. And that's just not true. You could say she just didn't think to do it. And I have sympathy for that. If she was like, yeah, I'm just going to get my phone. That's fine. It'll be fine. Or I'm going to give my phone number or whatever, but like, no, here's what doesn't make sense. If the whole time she's playing to hand in her phone, even if she was changing number, she still could take, wipe that data completely off that phone. Unless is it because they control it somehow she can't do anything to it. Is that what we're to believe? Cause even then you can just plug your phone into a Mac and just back it up and then wipe it. Unless there's some weird, like admin -y thing, but it doesn't strike me as the kind of business workplace that would have like a tech because she's not talking to the chief of IT. None of this makes sense. You could just wipe the phone. It would still have your number, apparently, if you can't get that from them, without their authorization, but It could be a blank phone and you've cloned it over to your new phone.

0:18:54 Lydia: I don't know. Yeah, you restore from your iCloud.

0:19:14 Thomas: And furthermore, you've also changed your two -factor to not be that number in case you're worried. Because it does seem like she was worried about this. It seems like she She was thinking about it. So why wouldn't you do all that? Okay. Who knows? Maybe she didn't think ahead to that detail. Maybe she doesn't know how that works.

0:19:31 Lydia: She talked to Verizon plenty, so I feel like, why weren't those questions that she asked them?

0:19:33 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, that's true. No one ever, no one ever said like, hey, why don't you just wipe that and just, or just, you can just deauthorize all your iCloud on it without it being, because again, iCloud and Apple and your phone number are not all the same thing. Like you could, all right. Anyway, it's so weird.

0:19:39 Lydia: And yeah, yeah. 10 hours later.

0:19:52 Thomas: Yeah, this happens a lot with this series. So then we get to this confrontation. Confrontation. What doesn't make any sense is she says August 21st, but we already saw that one text was from August 21.

0:20:06 Lydia: What was that? 153?

0:20:07 Thomas: Yeah, 1:53 p.m. Let's read that again. Hey, blank, were you able to release my phone? I'm headed back to Verizon and they said I need an email, blah, blah. Please let me know so I can drive back there. But then right lower down, she says on August 21, two days before her last day, Abel pulled up to the Jonesworks office in Beverly Hills. There she was confronted. Okay, are we to assume that's after?

0:20:28 Lydia: I guess after her Verizon visit.

0:20:30 Thomas: All right, I guess.

0:20:31 Lydia: So we're thinking like 4 p .m. maybe.

0:20:33 Thomas: But then she wouldn't have gone to Verizon if it wasn't released, right? Well, whatever. She was confronted by a physically imposing security guard, a forensic data extraction technical expert, and an attorney sitting at a conference table awash in documents.

0:20:44 Lydia: Oh, man. Maybe the technical expert could have helped her restore her iCloud to a new phone.

0:20:50 Thomas: Or the whole time he's like, I can't believe you didn't just wipe this. But why didn't she read all? I think all this is important.

0:20:53 Lydia: On information and belief, the attorney was affiliated with the firm Frankfurt, Kurnit, Klein & Sells, and the security and technology personnel were from Edgeworth Security Services. Also present was Jones' chief of staff, Gordon Duren, even though she redacted.

0:21:11 Thomas: Why'd she redact it earlier?

0:21:12 Lydia: Yeah, I don't know why.

0:21:12 Thomas: Yeah, weird. Ooh, who had flown in unannounced from New York.

0:21:16 Lydia: Yeah. Who had flown in unannounced from New York. Maybe that's why he didn't answer because he was on the plane.

0:21:21 Thomas: Might be true.

0:21:22 Lydia: Apart from Jones's chief of staff, Abel had never seen any of them before. After being ushered into the conference room, Abel noticed that the security guard was posted just outside its doors, positioned between the conference room and the office entrance, blocking the exit. There, the attorney gestured at the documents and instructed Abel to review and sign them. The attorney stated that Jones Works suspected Abel had retained proprietary information on her personal laptop. Abel was told that Jones works would have grounds to sue if she did not allow them access.

0:21:54 Thomas: Okay. But that's when you say, I'm going to talk to a lawyer. They can't arrest you. You call 911 on your phone that we know you still have somehow. Yeah.

0:21:59 Lydia: Be like, it sounds like I need representation here to help guide me through this, to help get me through my last day.

0:22:06 Thomas: And like, it's one thing to be like, okay, maybe hypothetically, Steph Jones is insane. Let's say like, she's just nuts. She's not going to find a security guard and a lawyer that's going to, no, we're going to kidnap you. If she was like, hey, I need to talk a lawyer, you need to let me go. Like, you can't just keep me.

0:22:16 Lydia: And a forensic data expert. Yeah. They're not the FBI. Yeah. Yeah.

0:22:25 Thomas: What they're not going to beat her up like what are they you know like they're they're not the mafia so it's weird that she never thought to be like I need to talk to an attorney I'm not doing any of this what would they do I don't

0:22:35 Lydia: So this is how she responds. Caught completely off guard by the hostile and intimidating display. Play abel fell into a state of shock having never experienced anything like this she had no idea what to do yeah

0:22:44 Thomas: Understand okay all right fair enough I have sympathy for that fair enough

0:22:49 Lydia: Fearful that she would burst into tears and humiliate herself which she knew was what jones wanted unnecessary I I feel like it's perfectly fine to be like I don't want to cry right now like that would be embarrassing and like and frustrate me more that's enough

0:22:54 Thomas: What okay that all right yeah seems like this is the whole goal of all this then it actually has nothing to do with anything else just She's like, I'm going to just want her to, I just going to make her cry. Okay.

0:23:10 Lydia: Yeah and because of that abel dissociated knowing she had done nothing wrong and desperate to get it out of there. Abel signed the documents without digesting their contents. Sorry, that's also not Jones's fault. I, yeah, I don't know.

0:23:24 Thomas: And how did the documents even factor in? Like, what were those? Did that matter?

0:23:28 Lydia: I'm guessing maybe like an NDA or something like that. I don'T know that we've seen them. It doesn't specifically say. Afterward, the lawyer demanded that Abel hand over her personal laptop, which Abel did.

0:23:37 Thomas: Personal laptop. Okay. What? Why? Personal laptop? Yeah.

0:23:42 Lydia: Well, I wonder if it's like a whole using it for work purposes. They didn't have a separate, like all of this just seems so messy to me.

0:23:49 Thomas: But the other thing was a work phone. It was issued or whatever by, this is just personal laptop. Why would she have to do that?

0:23:56 Lydia: Yeah, I don't know.

0:23:58 Thomas: And then it says, and I guess this is all in her presence. This is all still there. It says, keep going.

0:24:04 Lydia: Yeah the Edgeworth contractor then conducted a forensic search of her system that turned up nothing. Thereafter, the attorney furnished a list of approximately 10 documents and accused Abel of having illicitly accessed and stolen them.

0:24:15 Thomas: That's pretty specific. 10 documents you think this is all bullshit where the attorney has here are the 10 documents that you stole seems

0:24:25 Lydia: Didn't we also see one of them from Jones's complaint too, where it was like, yeah, it was the client engagement letter? Yeah. Abel adamantly denied the accusation and a further forensic examination of her computer again turned up Nothing.

0:24:29 Thomas: Like it yeah the thing she changed the name on okay

0:24:38 Lydia: Following the fruitless search of Abel's laptop, the Attorney demanded that Abel hand over her phone, after which security would escort her out of the building. Still utterly shell -shocked and desperate to get out of there, Abel agreed to hand over her phone so long as they would confirm that Jonesworks would immediately release her personal cell phone number, which would enable Jonesworks to take possession of the physical device without gaining unrestricted access to its contents.

0:25:02 Thomas: What but that's not even true

0:25:05 Lydia: And I don't think that that was going through her head at that point in time. Like, we've already established technologically, like, she wasn't really figuring that out. Like, I think she just cared about her number. I don't think she was ever thinking about them seeing stuff on her phone.

0:25:20 Thomas: I mean the passcode is what would give you unrestrained access to the contents I mean unless again she's saying that they accessed all her iCloud but then the physical phone doesn't matter because you can do that you know just having the number I don't know

0:25:34 Lydia: It would also allow Abel to get a new phone and move on with her life without undue disruption. After express confirmation, you can just get a New Phone, yeah. After express information from the Jones Works chief of staff and attorney that they would release the phone number if she went straight to the Verizon store, Abel handed them the phone and was ushered out of the building as her colleagues watched in disbelief.

0:25:41 Thomas: You can just get a new phone okay Okay.

0:25:56 Lydia: Seeing that Abel had been stripped of her phone and therefore had no way to contact anyone, some current Jonesworks employees reached out to Abel's partner, family, friends, and former co -workers to let them know what had happened. Abel went straight to a Verizon store a short distance away.

0:26:11 Thomas: Which I guess was the second time of the day. I don't know.

0:26:13 Lydia: Yeah, it seems like it, based on those texts. Once there, Verizon contacted Jonesworks to coordinate the release and transfer. The Jonesworks chief of staff assured Abel and and Verizon that they were in the process of effectuating the release and to bear with them for a few minutes. Abel never heard from him again.

0:26:29 Thomas: That's rough. I don't what that's about.

0:26:31 Lydia: After four hours of desperate, parenthetical, unanswered calls, Abel left Verizon in panic and despair. Abl realized Jones had double -crossed her in a very serious way. By refusing to release Abel's phone number, Jonesworks had usurped her contact information and cut off Abel access to critical accounts protected by two -factor authentication linked to that phone number. As a result, Abel lost access to her iCloud, including all her text messages, photos, and contacts, bank accounts, utilities, insurance, and virtually every other sensitive account. By contrast, Jones now had unrestricted access to everything stored on Abel's phone. Her text messages. Emails. Personal photos. Jones could read her communications with her fiancé. Parents. Friends. Everyone. Jones was acting purely out of spite and we get here a photograph of a message okay oh

0:27:23 Thomas: She says it's her new phone. So she's got a new phone.

0:27:26 Lydia: Yeah when we saw that in some of the other texts with the lively complaint where it says like jen able new number jen don't use old number so this is two this is a group message this is stephanie and the jones works chief of staff redacted here even though again she named him earlier steph blank chief of stuff this is jen able my new cell I'm writing you both as a personal plea to please release my cell phone number this This is the same number I've had since high school. This isn't a work -related thing. This is my personal number that is linked to all of my bills, my medical, Blank's dad's living facility, all of MyPersonal emails and accounts, and due to two -factor authentication, I can't access anything. Blank, you wrote me numerous times you were going to release this, and then when Verizon was calling you during the four hours I was there yesterday, you never picked up. They said you never even started the process after you told me you did. The lawyer I was ambushed with yesterday even said this was fine to do. I've been nothing but good to you both, but this is just mean and egregious, and I'm begging you to please release it

0:27:29 Thomas: Right. The new number. Yeah. What

0:28:24 Lydia: Before I travel tomorrow. Please. You have no use for a blank number that has been my personal number before you took on the billing. Oh, there we go.

0:28:32 Thomas: Is a blank number?

0:28:33 Lydia: I think it's the area code, maybe. It takes one phone call. Please.

0:28:38 Thomas: Cause they're in New York and she's like, you don't need it. What's the LA one? I can't remember.

0:28:41 Lydia: Well, I think there's probably multiple.

0:28:43 Thomas: Yeah, let's keep going. I mean, this is, you know, we got some amount of this in the Baldoni complaint, actually most of this, but it's a little more more detail here New

0:28:52 Lydia: Well, we haven't talked about the Baldoni complaint.

0:28:54 Thomas: York Times it was in that this was in the New York Times complaint

0:28:58 Lydia: It took Abel over a month to regain control over all her accounts. Meanwhile, she learned that Jones had been sharing her private text messages with the entire office, mocking and disparaging her. Having torched Abel's privacy and dignity, Jones started boasting that Abel' s business was next. In or around early September 2024, Jones warned a departing employee not to work for Abel because, quote, her business wouldn't be around much longer.

0:29:22 Thomas: Yeah but that just could be like she sucks at business I mean like I've planted a nuclear bomb in her

0:29:25 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's not a threat. So now we have another group message with two people that appear to be JonesWorks employees. Jen Abel says oh okay I didn't mean to put you guys in a weird spot sorry about that just wanted to ask just know that whatever she is telling you guys about me or what I've done it's not true I've enjoyed working with you both and wish you nothing but the best heart emoji Jonesworks employee responds unfortunately your company phone says otherwise ouch ouch just wanted to

0:29:51 Thomas: Business just flat period this is a real self -owned I would not post this if it were me I would not put this in my complaint

0:29:57 Lydia: Ask yeah really embarrassing and then Jen Able responds about you guys I've always been up front with with feedback and have held your hands to set you up for success the entire time with JB. Oh, and Justin Baldoni. I've given criticism and have told you both up front where Justin has been unhappy, especially you blank. This hurts my feelings, but at least my lawyer will be happy to know that personal texts are being shared with employees and it's unfortunate that you have drunk the Kool-Aid. I'll still be here when you guys wake up sending nothing but love.

0:30:26 Thomas: I don't know man we've seen her be so two -faced like the one thing that you can't deny is that we have seen texts of her being explicitly two -faced as fuck right right? Yeah.

0:30:35 Lydia: Yeah, about everybody.

0:30:37 Thomas: And so like

0:30:39 Lydia: Baldoni, Melissa Nathan, Stephanie Jones, literally everybody.

0:30:39 Thomas: In this interaction, yeah, it's like everybody in this interaction where she's trying to tax like two particular employees. Why is she trying to?

0:30:47 Lydia: Probably her subordinates.

0:30:48 Thomas: Well, and it cuts off where she says again, you read it, but oh, okay. I didn't mean to put you guys in a weird spot. Sorry about that. Just wanted to ask like, what is she asking there? You know, like she's trying to, she's trying to get something and then she's like, oh, nothing but the best. Unfortunately, your company phone says that means someone's seen some shit. Someone's seen some major shit shit talking yeah and it's like about that them and it was like fuck you like

0:30:49 Lydia: They were probably part of her team. I mean, it sounded like they worked on the the Baldoni account. Yeah. Yeah. More than we've seen. Yeah. About them. Yeah. And like the quality of their work potentially. And like, yeah, like, yeah. Yeah.

0:31:21 Thomas: That yeah who knows because like that's that's pretty that's pretty clear I don't know I feel like that that's pretty unambiguous there hmm

0:31:28 Lydia: And I also think like, like coming from a like managerial perspective too, where she says, I've always been upfront with feedback and have held your hands to set you up for success. So something that happened in those text messages caught those employees off guard. That was not like something that she wrote there is not something that he expressed to them.

0:31:46 Lydia: Otherwise, I don't think they would have had that reaction if it was something where it's like, oh, yeah, you know, we did talk about that before. You know, it was Something That I Struggled With, etc., etc.

0:31:54 Thomas: I don'T EVEN KNOW THAT SHE'S GONNA REMEMBER ALL THE SHIT SHE'S TALKED ABOUT PEOPLE TO BE HONEST WITH YOU I DON'T KNOW all right well I think I'm gonna take a sec uh pause the tape everyone pause the cassette tape I'm going to take a second and review some more of Stephanie Jones's complaint because kind of remembering that I think I want to, I want to recall. So, uh, just wait here a second. Just drive away.

0:32:19 Lydia: You're going to the Verizon store?

0:32:21 Thomas: That's the new, my dad went out for a pack of cigarettes and never came back. My dad went to the store and never went out to go get his number back from Stephanie Jones at the Verizon store and never came back. We've been at this too long. This is nonsense.

0:32:42 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:32:42 Thomas: Okay. I think a lot of this will make much more sense now having gone back and referenced back to the Stephanie Jones Jones complaint.

0:32:49 Lydia: Mm -mm. You got to pair them together, you now, to get the full. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah

0:32:52 Thomas: Yeah, it's a nice pairing. Yeah. Here's what you all and Lydia, you may have forgotten as I did as well.

0:33:01 Lydia: You're the complaint sommelier lay it on us

0:33:04 Thomas: Well, on 8 -13, so August 13th, 2024, Abel boasted to Nathan, and these are texts we have. Abel boosted to Nathan about the damage she was doing to Jones Works, her then current employer, and Nathan goaded her on. Abil, we're going to war. I feel so alive. Ha ha ha ha. Nathan, going out of JW with a bang. And then this one was interesting thing because I'm pretty sure you told me this was a lawyer, this Alicia Jessup saying, and this is a week later now on the 20th. So pay attention to those dates. We're getting close to the 21st is when that confrontation happens. There's a paragraph here and we don't get all of this in text form, but we do get some paragraph explanation. We'll see. But paragraph 98, again, this is Jones's complaint. Indeed, when Jonesworks information technology personnel disabled Abel's access to Jonesworks servers after discovering her unauthorized downloading activity, Abel boasted that she was still able to steal all of the documents and information she needed to form her own competing firm. So then Alicia Jessup says, oof, did you get everything you needed before she did all of that? Jennifer Abel says, yes, pretty much. I have my way around that shit because I have like hundreds of different emails for each domain I own so she can suck it. This is on the 20th.

0:34:16 Lydia: So weird so does she know technology then yeah

0:34:18 Thomas: Yeah, that was my same thought. Maybe she does. And then it says, So this is this is OK. The timeline of August 21st, specifically that day, is blowing my mind. So some of this confusion and I'm finally just doing the conversion. But these texts we get from Stephanie Jones. And again, I think this is because of the software that they actually used. It's in this like UTC plus zero time zone. So it's like default world time or something. So that can be kind of confusing when we're looking at when stuff was. But converting that and she's in L .A., right?

0:34:28 Lydia: Yeah

0:34:50 Thomas: She's in, depending, I guess, if she had traveled. But this text from Jones' complaint at 8:26 a.m., August 21st. So in the morning, August 21th, Jen to Melissa. By the way, I'm having my off -boarding this morning with our chief of staff, parentheses, a joke, because Steph won't face me. And you should see the list I made of things to bring up. Melissa Nathan, I need the list. Jen Abel, holding them hostage. It's wild. Melissa Nathan. Exactly how business should be done. So that's that morning.

0:34:50 Lydia: Okay right

0:35:21 Thomas: And above that, it had said on or about August 21st, Jones had learned about Abel's ongoing efforts to steal dozens and dozens of Jonesworks proprietary documents, including sensitive client and business information that Abel had no legitimate reason to access, including for major brand and clients that Abel had never worked on. Abel went so far as to download and copy the Jonesworks client contract form, except that she replaced Jonesworks logo with a logo for her newly formed business. This. Jonesworks immediately terminated Abel. Oh, and by the way, remember we talked about that paperwork she was forced to sign? This is the only reference to it that I remember now is as part of her termination paperwork, Abel falsely signed a statement purporting to confirm that she had not removed any electronic confidential information from Jonesworks. But of course she had, and the signed statement was untrue. Now, again, I don't know what that meant because that doesn't show up in the causes of action because it's not like she's not under oath or something. So I don'T even know what that does but it's I guess it shows yeah well then it just shows like motives if it's like hey you were lying you know it's probably helps make the case but yeah so I guess slightly amending what I said earlier

0:36:17 Lydia: Just character right

0:36:25 Thomas: About that I don't know what the paperwork was or if it mattered I still don't really think it matters but you know probably does that doesn't hurt for jones

0:36:26 Lydia: Okay so that morning august 21st in the morning

0:36:40 Thomas: Uh she said this morning she said this morn

0:36:43 Lydia: She told melissa nathan that she had did she say what time the meeting was with with the chief of staff okay interesting and then she texts the chief of staff at 1:33 1:53 something like that later that afternoon yeah were you able to release my phone I'm headed back to verizon at that time and then that same day later that afternoon I yeah

0:36:50 Thomas: After maybe yeah yeah when was she you know accosted and held hostage. And then, yeah, because she texted chief of staff, is this the one you're talking about? Wednesday at 1:53 PM, were you able to release my number? I mean, that could have all happened after, right? I guess. So when was the, she was under arrest?

0:37:17 Lydia: Well what do you mean I think that had to have happened after this I think so because Because this is on the same iMessage thread for when we knew she still had her phone number.

0:37:25 Thomas: You think so? How do we know she still has her phone number?

0:37:35 Lydia: Well, it's August 19th, August 19. Like, that's in the same exact thread. Right.

0:37:39 Thomas: We still have never solved if this is her phone number, if this Is her iMessage, if This is from a different phone. Well, we know it's not a different phone because that one is later when she says, hey, this is a different phone number. Could it be that this confrontation was not nearly as dramatic as she's making it out to be? And it happened in the morning.

0:37:57 Lydia: I mean, that is a possibility.

0:37:59 Thomas: And then later she's like, hey, did you release my number?

0:38:03 Lydia: Hmm.

0:38:03 Thomas: We already know they were on the phone. Do you think that? No, it can't be that the phone, yeah, that has to be after. So she went to the Verizon store and never heard back from them again. So that couldn't, the confrontation could have been after that. Remember?

0:38:15 Lydia: Yeah, but it is weird, though, that she's saying, I'm headed back to Verizon. Like, he was in that room. Abel agreed to hand over her phone so long as they would confirm. How would she have sent him a message on her way to Verizon if she had turned over her phone by that point?

0:38:31 Thomas: Has she always had another phone number this whole time? I don't know.

0:38:34 Lydia: No, I mean, what she alleges is that she had no device at all. And so her co -workers. Yeah.

0:38:34 Thomas: I actually don't Know. Here's, let's go back McHenry, because this is, it is very confusing. And I think we're so confused because her story is bullshit. I don't think it makes sense.

0:38:45 Lydia: Yeah. It doesn't make sense.

0:38:46 Thomas: And so we're trying to figure out like what the best explanation is.

0:38:48 Lydia: We're doing the work of her lawyers and not getting paid for

0:38:52 Thomas: On August 21st, two days before her last day, Abel pulled up to the Jonesworks office in Beverly Hills. That would already right away, that would be pretty misleading if that's her coming back from like lunch break. It makes it sound like they're scheduled to have, and also she knew that they're having, she's having her off boarding.

0:39:04 Lydia: It at the beginning of the day. True. Oh,

0:39:09 Thomas: She already knew that. There she was confronted by a physically imposing security, blah, blah. Blah, blah, all that crap. So that very much seems to be in the morning, but I agree that it could be not and she's just being misleading, but it makes more sense if it's in the morning.

0:39:22 Lydia: And then this line is just absolutely a lie. Well, maybe not. I guess maybe she could have thought her off boarding was via Zoom or or something. Because she says also present was Jones's chief of staff, Gordon Duren, who had flown in unannounced from New York. But that morning she texted Melissa Nathan saying, I'm having my offboarding with the chief of staff.

0:39:39 Thomas: That's weird, isn't it? Did she expect it to be on Zoom but it was in person? I don't know. It sort of just seems like, yeah, seems weird. But now that we know from messages that Steph Jones has said on August 21st, she figured out. Now, how do we know that? I do not know. Is it the IT people have puzzled it out? Is it, again, if this number has been on on jones's plan or something the whole time she I think that means she could probably access stuff already right like if you go in your if you're in charge if you own a number with a verizon thing can't you see like go online and see stuff or no like you can see something yeah

0:39:44 Lydia: That would be the only answer there. That's not a lie. Hmm.

0:40:09 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you can see like, I did this recently with my dad's phone number. And I could see related to the billing detail, I could See outgoing and going, you know, like call logs and text logs, but no content.

0:40:24 Thomas: Or maybe it's just email okay yeah maybe it'S just it could be emailed like if it's a work email at all one way or the other jones finds out now the only thing I'm trying to figure out is did jones find out like once she took her laptop stuff here or did she already find out that morning kind of thing?

0:40:42 Lydia: So I mean I'll say just because not exactly the same stuff, but similar stuff happened when I worked for the state where IT was able to track if people were, especially in the age of COVID and stuff, right? Because we were dealing with a lot of protected health information, personal identifying information, and they were very, very strict about, you know, how you can move files or data from one thing to another.

0:41:09 Lydia: And they had like entire huge workbooks, Excel workbooks that basically tracked activity about out like email attachments like if it was going externally and it was attaching something that appeared to have PII or something like that in it and then those things were all flagged and sent to deputy directors and the deputy directors had to have conversations with the people they had to like go through and sign yeah they had a like sign like I accidentally did it one time and like years ago and I had to sign a thing like a testing that I that I destroyed the file that I was using and blah blah blah.

0:41:33 Thomas: The clunky ass state. Yeah.

0:41:45 Lydia: So I think it's very very easy for IT these days to track that.

0:41:50 Thomas: Yeah, one way or the other, Steph Jones finds out and we don't know what Steph Jones exactly knew when, but given that we have these texts later that say, ha ha, I'm stealing stuff, you know, like she can't trace it. Does it then seem that that out of line for Jones to have security escort her and be like, hey, you've stolen company property. She tries to make it out to be the Gestapo, but unless they're missing something, seems like a very reasonable reaction to someone stealing stuff from your business and gloating about it.

0:42:22 Lydia: Can I also send you a picture of the chief of staff?

0:42:27 Thomas: Okay.

0:42:28 Lydia: Because this is part of the intimidating force of people.

0:42:32 Thomas: Which one is he?

0:42:33 Lydia: The one on the right with the mustache. He's like a very kind looking put together gay man.

0:42:35 Thomas: We're seeing his wedding photos

0:42:41 Lydia: Yeah Yeah. Yeah. It's his.

0:42:41 Thomas: Or something. He does look very nice. I will admit in different circumstances, he does look very Aryan. So he could be the Gestapo. He is a white guy, looks kind of blonde with a mustache. You know, he could. But yeah, this looks like, you know, a guy.

0:42:58 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, they're going to get married on my birthday this year.

0:43:01 Thomas: Oh, how nice. Yeah. So what the fuck were we talking about? So like that day is hard to reconstruct from what we have because it's all over the place. But it sure feels like she thought she was going to have her debrief with the whatever. Now, was Jones there or was just the chief of staff?

0:43:15 Lydia: No, just chief of staff.

0:43:17 Thomas: And I mean fair enough like she's gonna

0:43:19 Lydia: I don't play Jones for.

0:43:19 Thomas: Fly over there yeah but Jones has reason to believe she's stolen all this stuff she again text later I will allow for the fact that maybe Jones could have still been unreasonable if she didn't know this yet and just like assumed it or something but I don't know man given all the given allthe later evidence and the fact that it's like company phone who knows if it was company email like I'm gonna go ahead and say odds are she was discovered by Steph Jones and Steph Jones took what seems to me to be pretty reasonable action and then like later that day she's texting the guy being like hey can I have my number back and look it might be I still do not fully understand what the fuck that is about with the number we won't go over it again it might be that they kind of fucked her over with the phone number but that doesn't shut her off from everything she's ever owned in her personal whatever that's just like short of her being so wildly incompetent that she couldn't figure out how to not have that happen it's just whatever like in their minds it's like it's a phone number who gives a shit they eventually got it to her

0:44:16 Lydia: And if anything nefarious were to happen with that like she has a way to pursue actions against them.

0:44:20 Thomas: Yeah yeah yeah if they accessed anything yeah 100 % and I would think she would be right to do it if it was like hey they went through they found my nudes they shared it with somebody if it wasn't anything awful like that I would be 100 % on Abel side no you don't get to do that if she can prove or even allege properly that they used her phone number to access anything actually private share it they might see some stuff if she used it on the work phone and I don't think that's on them like if if they see some step but they did anything really horrible with it, like a hundred percent, I would be all, it doesn't, two wrongs don't make a right. I'm always firmly about that. Like even people who in one context, Jen Abel, I think is being a pretty big piece of shit. The minute someone's doing something like that, like sharing really private stuff, I'm a hundred % on her side in that interaction. And she should pursue that if that happened, a hundred%. I don't think we have any evidence of that, especially because Jones, it sounds like a lawyer was involved from the beginning or

0:45:14 Thomas: From, at least from this day, rather, like some part of the process. This is Jones, I think, going about this pretty professionally, at least in that August 21st encounter. I'm not vouching for everything she ever did, but like, I don't think any lawyer is going to be like, hey, check out these. Well, I shouldn't say any. I think odds are in that kind of situation, a lawyer is likely going to be like well, okay, you can't mess with that. Like, don't do anything with that, we'll just leave that be. But if there's anything that's tied to the company, seems like it's fair game, right?

0:45:23 Lydia: Right. Yeah.

0:45:42 Thomas: I mean, it's company phone, we know it's a fair game. Actually, we've talked to lawyers about this. So that's what I'll say about that. Like if there is anything like that and you brought it up and you're totally right where Jones works or anyone there did anything messy and horrible with her private stuff that they shouldn't have had access to because they had her phone number a hundred percent, she should pursue that. I would be on her side on that. Yeah.

0:46:01 Lydia: Especially as a California resident, she's going to have a lot of protections there. Yeah.

0:46:04 Thomas: A hundred percent. So we'll see, like if that's part of it, absolutely. And maybe it is because people abuse their power, people, you know, whatever.

0:46:10 Lydia: You get petty and yeah. Right.

0:46:11 Thomas: But first off, I don't see any evidence of that yet at all. Secondly, it would not negate everything else going on. That would still mean like someone just did a bad thing. It's like if the police rough you up, I'm on your side that they shouldn't have roughed you up. However, it doesn't mean if you robbed another person that like you're not at fault for having robbed another person first.

0:46:31 Thomas: You know, it's like it's two separate things. So we have tried to reconstruct that day, but that's the best I can come up with. What do you think? OK, so closing thoughts right now on August 21st. My bet is it It happened in the morning. It maybe wasn't as crazy as she's making it out. Like maybe it was like not really that crazy. Or maybe it wasn't. She was still in a fog about it. Could be.

0:46:51 Lydia: So how are you thinking she communicated with him if they retained her phone and she was meant to go to the Verizon store after that? Like you think she pulled out her laptop?

0:46:59 Thomas: I think it's entirely possible that she pulled out her laptop, that she's had a separate phone this entire time. You know, it's like it's not hard.

0:47:05 Lydia: She has 100 email addresses apparently tied to all the various domains.

0:47:07 Thomas: Yeah, she's 100 email addresses. It would make it even stupider that she did stuff on a work phone if she had another phone the whole time. But she very well might have had another foam the whole thing. She was planning for this like she was planning. She might have already bought a phone. That's another thing. If she had already bought a phone, which I think she should have, and she just didn't have her number yet, you can still use it on iMessage just on the internet.

0:47:26 Lydia: On the Internet. Oh, OK. Okay.

0:47:27 Thomas: And like if she were driving, it would be a little hard to figure out, although if she had like her car has internet.

0:47:30 Lydia: But then that also means that she would have to have accessed iCloud to be in that same thread of conversation.

0:47:36 Thomas: Yes, which she absolutely had. I think my money is on. She's entirely full of shit about the iCloud, the pictures, the blah, blah, blah. She had another phone ready to go because anyone would in this situation or she got one shortly after. She easily could access all that stuff. She wanted her phone number. Sure, I get it. I would want my phone number too. I'd be like, I mean, I never would be in that situation, but like, I'd Be like, yeah, I want to keep my same phone number. It's annoying to change it. And then I think that's all bluster to a get the people to do what she wants. Cause I do not trust her, especially with how two -faced we've seen her be in black and white doesn't mean Steph Jones is always telling the truth by any means, but we have seen her be like oh yeah, I've stolen all this stuff. She doesn't know how to find it. She sucks. And then be like Oh, I don't know why she's trying to search my laptop. Yeah.

0:48:18 Lydia: I haven't taken anything. Yeah? Are

0:48:21 Thomas: Yeah, it's like it's so she is the most liar person, I think, of anyone in this based on the evidence we have right now. And so I wouldn't be surprised if it's, like, oh, I need my number. It's going to be I can't get any of my private blah, blah, and it's kind of bluster to try to get this chief of staff guy to do something. But she's had it all along.

0:48:38 Lydia: You saying she's always had a second phone, or are you saying that she bought a phone while waiting for her phone number and then activated that after their meeting and sent that message at 153 August 21st?

0:48:51 Thomas: That's a good question. So the other possibility is that's on a laptop. She hasn't left work yet because she's saying so rather than like, oh, I was escorted out, kicking, screaming, whatever. Whatever. Instead, she could have, yeah, she could have written that from a, because it is an iMessage, she got written that from a laptop saying, hey, were you able to release my phone as per the meeting we kind of just had all morning?

0:49:02 Lydia: Back to her office to pack up. Mm -hmm.

0:49:14 Thomas: And then from there, she goes straight to the Verizon store, contacts from the Verizon store, and then only gets a phone maybe there, like a new phone, because she has a new phone the next day. So that's probably what happened. Yeah.

0:49:25 Lydia: Yeah, I think I like that. I think I like that version of events. And Jen Abel, if you're listening, let us know.

0:49:32 Thomas: And she did allege by contrast, Jones now had had unrestricted access to everything stored on Abel's phone, her text messages, emails, personal photos. Jones could read her communications with her fiance, parents, friends, everyone. Then Jones was acting purely out of spite. Yeah, I don't know. I think we've been pretty consistent. The work phone is the work phone. It sucks, but don't do that.

0:49:50 Lydia: Also, there's no indication that Stephanie Jones retained the phone personally either. Yeah.

0:49:55 Thomas: That's true. She's not even there. Yeah.

0:49:56 Lydia: She's not even there and it's an IT asset. So IT is going to have the phone.

0:50:01 Thomas: And maybe she would have thought or the lawyer would have advised her, hey, we'll just, we'll take care of this. Yeah. Maybe. Or maybe not. I don't know. Maybe she does allege that she was like sharing the texts and with the employees and maybe that's true, but also if they were work things where she's talking shit about employees. I think that would be a little messed up, but it wouldn't be like, I don't think it'd be like illegal or a tort against her, really, if it's like, that's all work stuff.

0:50:05 Lydia: We'll handle it. Yeah, yeah. Side note, we also though don't know the date on when she had that conversation with those employees because it, no, it's not dated.

0:50:28 Thomas: Oh, we don't? Oh, you're right. In or around early September 2024. Oh, but that's not necessarily, youre right, could be. Yeah. Good point. Yeah, all right. At long last, we're getting to section F, Stephanie Jones falls out with Wayfair and Baldoni. Okay, let's see how this went in her mind.

0:50:34 Lydia: No, but that has nothing to do necessarily with the text message that we see below. So there's no date there. So that could actually be post -subpoena. Like, we have no idea. We have no idea.

0:50:53 Lydia: For almost four years, Abel largely managed JonesWorks' work for Wayfair Studios and Justin Baldoni out of its Los Angeles office. Over time, Abel developed a close and trusting relationship with Baldoni, Wayfair CEO Jamie Heath, and the rest of the Wayfair team, particularly as their strategic communications needs became ever more complex in relation to you it ends with us

0:51:16 Thomas: I'm going to go ahead and just say it right here. I said it already before when we first went through this, I said nothing made any sense without Jamie Heath and Abel having some sort of relationship. And I said, doesn't even necessarily have to be a romantic, but that has been what, a couple months since we recorded that at least. And in the intervening time, the more I think about it and the more I see when we go back and look at those, the way that Jamie Heath lied to Steph Jones about, Sony said, quote, someone named Stephanie is whatever.

0:51:44 Thomas: And like went all in for Jen Abel in ways that make no sense. Again, short of Jen Abel having, and maybe Melissa Nathan at that point, I can't remember when that was, but like short of them having very successfully poisoned the well kind of against Steph Jones and maybe being like, hey, we'll save you money. Hey, she's mismanaging things. Could be that. But it felt like Jamie Heath was going pretty far out on a limb in a way that's never made sense to me. And so my like inkling is that maybe, maybe there's something going on with Heath and Abel. That's all I'm saying. Maybe there is. Cause that, that would make things make more sense to me. And so I'm putting my, planting my flag that I already kind of did,

0:51:46 Lydia: Very protective yeah yeah

0:52:24 Thomas: But like just renewing that flag. I don't know if we'll find that out, if we ever would find that Out, but it just, it doesn't make much sense otherwise, especially because they're still kind of together, even though there's so much that's come out about like her talking shit about Baldoni and her her, like all the stuff they've seen from Abel at this point about how two-faced she is. And yet she's still with them. She's still, they're still kind of going to bat or at least Heath is still going to bat for her.

0:52:48 Lydia: Yeah I mean traveled internationally to go to Cannes Film Festival yeah yeah

0:52:51 Thomas: Like recently it just something see. And, and by the way, putting together, I forget if I even said that. No, I think it did a long time ago when I watched that, like man enough video thing. And Jamie Heath talks about how he's cheated on his wife a bunch of times. Like, I don't know, man. I don' know. Wouldn't surprise me at all. Anyway, just saying in that. Okay.

0:53:16 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:53:16 Thomas: All right. We're going to call it there. I had to sneak in my theory and I'm glad I did because I think it's right, but maybe not, but it's also right.

0:53:24 Lydia: I would love to hear what folks think about your theory

0:53:27 Thomas: I look, I was thinking about this today and apologies for if this seems like a jerk off thing to say, but I've realized I just, as I was looking at, you know, conspiracy theory number 5 ,000 that I'm debunking for a different thing that, you know, here's the thing about me. When I want to believe something, I believe it less.

0:53:48 Thomas: I'm more skeptical of it if I want it to be true. And now I feel like that makes me a fucking space alien in our world, you know, and I'm sure it's not true. I'm so many of you listening are that way where you're checking your biases. You're not trying to follow that motivated reasoning kind of thing. But there's also another level of people who think they do that and don't, who think they did that and arm themselves with the language of skepticism. And, you know, they're great at checking their biases, but they actually are terrible at it and they don't actually do it, which is almost worse. And then I think what happens, though, is the Internet just naturally gets filled with the people who don't do that, with the people who love when they want something to be true, when they want the super crazy legal theory about how Blake Lively is going to jail. They want it to be a true, crazy coincidence. The thing they want to be true is also true if you, you know, ignore a whole bunch of facts and make up some other ones.

0:54:25 Lydia: Right yeah

0:54:36 Thomas: And it's just like driving me nuts. But this is something that, I mean, something, it's not that I'm trying to be a conspiracy theorist for any reason. It's that something must explain why Jamie Heath acted the way he did. And there are things that can explain it. And I'm not saying this is the only explanation, but it's just weird. It's weird for someone, an entirely independent entity, essentially, to go against business interests, to open themselves up to liability, sort of for someone else that's not in their company. That's, I mean, again, it could be explained by also he just got tired of Jones and hated her. But like if the stuff about Jones never being really involved is true, then that makes that also weird, actually. Now that they think about it.

0:55:19 Lydia: And I mean Jen Abel did call out her very close relationships with her clients that she's built over the years. And I don't know.

0:55:27 Thomas: I mean they all probably say that.

0:55:29 Lydia: I don' know.

0:55:29 Thomas: But like, yeah, I don't know what explains this. It doesn't make any sense. We've also said this before, like Baldoni's not really involved in this part of it much.

0:55:38 Lydia: No, no. And they specifically say, you know, that they want to meet without Justin, that, you know. They have a text message group chat that is without JB in the title of it. So, like, there are plenty of conversations that Justin Baldoni is not involved in.

0:55:55 Thomas: I try to talk myself out of this. I try to talk myself out of this by saying maybe Jamie Heath doesn't like Stephanie Jones. Maybe he's mad at the money. Maybe he is mad at that cost or the something. But then I just realized kind of just now, which I already said, if there was any other ways that Stephanie Jones had been intervening badly or doing things that were blameworthy, we fucking definitely would see it in this complaint. And the best they can muster, the best I can musters almost nothing. The best I can muster is stuff that happens after this inexplicable behavior by Jamie Heath.

0:56:25 Thomas: So that's why I'm just like, I don't know, man. I think something could be going on here. I think something's going on here. Anyway, in part three, we're going to get to more of the nature of Jen Abel's departure and falling out and it skips back and forth in time. So it's kind of stuff we've already touched on a little, but we're going to do that again. Yeah. Cause like we do, they do circle around and I think it's for a deliberate reason as I call out, but we're also going to get into our discussion of the legal claims, but that's limited because because we're going to bring in the expert, which will be next episode after that one. So, thanks so much for listening. Thanks so much for supporting patrons at patreon.com/gavelpod. I hope you enjoyed hearing this before other people.

0:56:43 Lydia: Hard to preview a little bit it when it's like that. Mm hmm.

0:57:06 Thomas: Because you're better than other people, and you should be rewarded for that. Go be better than other people at patreon.com/gavelpod. I just, you know, I'm trying not to throw spaghetti at the wall.

0:57:17 Lydia: Yeah. See if it works.

0:57:17 Thomas: If there's anything, something will work someday. I don't know. Or not. All right. Thanks so much for listening, everyone. We'll see you for part three. Next.

0:57:19 Lydia: Yeah, Abel dissociated.

0:57:46 Thomas: Yeah, which is the right term? I think dissociated

0:57:48 Lydia: I think it's disassociated. Dissociated. Oh, no. I mean, dissociated disconnect or separate.

0:57:53 Thomas: No I think it's dissociated yeah yeah it's associated

0:57:57 Lydia: Well, hang on. They're related. They're related words. Another term for dissociate. Oh my gosh. I'm typing in Facebook to try and find your name. Jeez Louise. I feel like you're going to mess with me for chunks forever because I love it.

0:58:07 Thomas: My name is facebook listen to her she's so tired from chunking she's delusional

0:58:16 Lydia: I love it and I hate it, but I love it. I don't know. I don'T know what to do.

0:58:20 Thomas: Well I guess we'll try to start you know if we ever adopt a different system then we can name it something less personally offensive to you but until such

0:58:28 Lydia: I did not say it was personally offensive. That's taking it to an extreme.

0:58:29 Thomas: Time uh -huh well I felt it I felt that you said

0:58:33 Lydia: Are you dramatic like Jen Abel? Tell me or as you call her Steph Jones. Yeah.

0:58:35 Thomas: That or am I dramatic like stephanie jones we'll see yeah I'm down to jones

0:58:44 Lydia: Jones. Jones. There you go.

0:58:48 Thomas: Jones it's part two of the gen oops I always do that