GG90: "You Gotta Spend Voter Fraud to Make Voter Fraud" - James O'Keefe

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:26 Thomas: Gavel in, Gavelinos, and also opening arguments in Opening Argumentarinos. That's the totally normal greeting I do for that. I'm Thomas. That over there is Lydia. How you doing?

0:00:36 Lydia: Hi, making a little guest appearance on this lot of opening arguments, but happy to be here.

0:00:43 Thomas: Yeah, no matter how you're doing, add five. I'm about to add six doing great points with this episode to you. This is great. This is a fun one. It's a good one. I can't wait. But in the bad news category, of course, Matt, too sick to go. We were trying to go, we're playing it by ear for, um, rapid response Friday for opening arguments. Just, his voice is just gone. And, uh, you can't weirdly do a podcast if you don't have a voice.

0:00:49 Lydia: Hmm, okay.

0:01:07 Lydia: Yeah, tough industry to be in without a voice.

0:01:09 Thomas: Yeah. We're pretty close to just doing an AI, Matt. Like he could still type the words, but like get the AI voice for Matt. Oh, I'd never have to complain about his mic volume again. Maybe let's, Let's look into that actually. No, just kidding. But we're really hoping he'll be back soon. I think he'll be able to record somewhat soon, but we weren't able to do Rapid Response Friday. And so what I thought is We'd put out this gavel gavel that we were planning to do anyway. And unlike most gavels gavel, it's kind of current news. It's like hot off the presses. So it's perfect for Rapid Response Friday. And it is glorious.

0:01:15 Lydia: Math. Mm-hmm.

0:01:45 Thomas: So do you remember one James O'Keeffe?

0:01:40 Lydia: Oh fun. I familiar with the name yes.

0:01:50 Thomas: You know his work with his with his oeuvre

0:01:52 Lydia: Yeah if you could call it work Project Veritas right?

0:01:55 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, that's what he used to be until I think he was thrown I think he did something wrong and was thrown out of that and there's a whole lawsuit thing I know we've done something on it before and I don't feel like refreshing It's not important because he sucks. The important part for today's purposes is he sucks. This is the guy, the Project Veritas guy. I can't believe how long ago this was. He got his start in 2009 that was the acorn videos and We're talking you were saying you don't you don't remember that

0:01:57 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:02:20 Lydia: Remember it, not off the top of my head, so I could use a refresh.

0:02:23 Thomas: Yeah, well here's what it was and this was man this was so long ago he He's always done the dumbest shit. He gets hidden camera Stuff going and who knows how many of these he has to do before he finds anything, you know And by finding anything, I mean anything he can edit incredibly deceptively to make it look like someone on the left or some part of some government or Nonprofit or anything on the left is Evil or whatever is doing or is just criminal The videos are incredibly racist That's something that we'll see today.

Actually the the latest one that we're gonna be talking about is just incredibly shamelessly racist And the acorn one was no different. That was that was the acorn is an organization called Association of Community organizations for reform now and it works on neighborhood safety voter registration Healthcare affordable housing and other social issues and it's just part of this I guess, you know, it's interesting the right-wing theory around community organizing and voter registration and all that stuff I get you know dates back at least that far probably a lot further interesting how much that's pretty much they're doing the same shtick it's like if they lose it's because we cheated if they win it's because actually the elections were great and it was all above board kind of and this one, they went undercover, they deceptively edited, they, they had O'Keefe was posing as like a, just a cartoonish, pimp or whatever with a fur coat and top

0:03:32 Lydia: And it Mm. Yeah. Really?

0:03:55 Thomas: Hat. Yeah. And had a cane and like, yep, that was this 2009 one there.

0:03:57 Lydia: What? Why?

0:04:00 Thomas: Every bit is ridiculous. Now he's always done that. It's like, he does these, I think he fashions himself or, you know, thinks of himself as like a Borat type, you know, what's his name? Sasha Baron Cohen type, maybe. He's able to make fun of people even more when he's like, and look at how ridiculous my outfit was, and they didn't even, they took me seriously in the acorn offices. Because honestly, what he's really doing is he's just taking advantage of the fact that most people aren't on the lookout for fucking pranksters, you know?

0:04:01 Lydia: Right. Yeah. Yeah, and aren't going to be assholes about someone's like style necessarily, like they're just going to keep that to themselves, they're probably going to have thoughts, but they're going to like interact with you any differently because you look different.

0:04:33 Thomas: Yeah. Right? Or if you have an accent, which probably sounds really fake, Like, how confident would you have to be in just some random person's accent being fake before you'd be like, are you doing a bit? Are you doing a fake accent? You know what I mean? Like, yeah, like just in a social situation, like apropos of nothing, you're never gonna call them out. So you keep in mind how much that's working downhill for him. Like he just gets to take advantage of all this social conventions to then later be like, Look, I was just as a pimp. It was so obviously over the top. There's no way it was real. And they were taking me seriously. They were talking to me. They were gonna help me hide my income for taxes. You know, that's what the thing ultimately ended up being or whatever. And it was so bad. There was such a bad response to the Acorn one that Acorn was almost like bankrupt.

0:04:54 Lydia: Yeah, this isn't real, right? Yeah, exactly.

0:05:28 Lydia: Oh,

0:05:28 Thomas: It led to the United States Census Bureau and the IRS ending their contracts with ACORN and the U S Congress suspending its funding. And now that I think was in that so that was before the midterms. So meaning, that was still Democrats, mostly. September 17th, 2019. yeah, the vote was 345 to 75. Yeah, that's ridiculous. Yeah, and it lost most of its private funding, and this was even though several independent investigations by December 2009 revealed that there was no criminal activity, and it was just bullshit.

0:05:28 Lydia: Wow. Oh, Mm, yeah. Wow. Oh wow.

0:06:06 Lydia: And

0:06:06 Thomas: O'Keefe does, I think from time to time, as much as we hate to admit, he does find like individuals who are doing bad things, who are, know, associated with the left or with the government or with the something, like he'll find stuff here and there. But anything that's a part of, like, the broader narrative of, like, know, election fraud or some systemic problem, that's, like, pretty much all bullshit because, obviously, it's bullshit. And so they're these deceptively edited things. And yeah, I didn't even say this, the Baltimore employees were fired by Acorn after the video was I think this shows how ill-equipped our society and institutions were for these people. You know what I mean?

0:06:29 Lydia: Right. Yeah, yeah that's fair.

0:06:47 Thomas: Because back then, especially, it's maybe we're getting better in places now, but not everywhere. Back then it was like, well, you know, it didn't look good. And you know, a lot of people are mad, so let's just fire them.

0:06:58 Lydia: Gotta do something.

0:06:59 Thomas: Yeah. And it's was a bipartisan thing, know, like people, and then the investigation meanwhile shows that it was just nonsense. Like one of the people who was in the video said she believed the activists were joking and made a variety of absurd or joking statements to them. She said they were somewhat entertaining, but weren't even good actors.

0:07:02 Lydia: Know. And Hm.

0:07:17 Thomas: On the other hand, her office supervisor, Christina Spack, said that Kelky pretended to cooperate, she was one of the people fired, I think, pretended to cooperate with O'Keeffe and Giles because she feared for her safety.

0:07:29 Lydia: And Oh wow.

0:07:30 Thomas: Kelky responded to the pair's requests for help setting up a child prostitution ring on the video by claiming to be an ex-prostitute and claiming, Heidi Fleiss is my hero. The California Attorney General investigation of Kelky determined that none of her claims on the video were true and that that quote, she was playing along with what she perceived to be a joke.

0:07:48 Lydia: Hmm. Weird.

0:07:51 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. I mean, some people come in and say ridiculous things and you're joking with them, but then it's edited to look that's, oh yeah, that's who these are. That's who these acorn people are. They'll help you set up a child prostitution ring. And people took this seriously for some reason. We just were not equipped for this level of bad faith and still really arguably aren't. But it really is interesting to see in 2009, what a weapon this level of bad faith was and still is. And James O'Keefe hasn't gotten more honest since then. Yeah.

0:07:51 Lydia: Yeah.

0:08:24 Thomas: So what we're going to be talking about today is the videos he put out in August that I didn't hear about until just, uh, today. And I'm glad, cause they're horribly racist and ridiculous where he purports to show that you can simply vouch for anyone to allow them to vote you can just be like I vouch for this person in minnesota if I didn't say that, in Minnesota and so he does that by in the most racist way possible which is by dressing like a muslim and having a bunch of other people dress men by the way like dress as muslims and burkas and stuff and just pretend that he's gonna vouch for all these people to vote So, we're going to talk about this video, also, and I hope that folks out there have not seen the culmination of this, the end of this, because I think it's going to be a nice surprise if you and if you already know about it, it's still going to be nice, here.

So after this break, we're going to get into Support the show is patreon.com/gavelpod. And I guess patreon.com/law. If we're doing a combination pizza Taco Bell episode, we'll be right

0:08:41 Lydia: So, Minnesota.

0:09:10 Lydia: Wow. And I have

0:09:33 Thomas: Let's let's hit play and we'll see how much of this we get through. But it's important to know what these videos were. Here we

0:09:40 Clip: You can show up on Election Day and vouch for up to eight unregistered voters. Members of the Justice League dress up in traditional Muslim attire, including a transgender wearing a burqa, and put this vouching law to an extreme test on Primary Day, August 11th.

0:09:44 Thomas: Hmm. Wow.

0:09:52 Lydia: What?

0:09:54 Thomas: Because it's a man. Shut up.

0:10:00 Lydia: Oh, my God.

0:10:04 Clip: The vouching? Oh, the vouching is for me. I vouch for them. Oh, great. Is that okay? Yes. How does that work? Well, if you're all in the same precinct, and you are already registered with us, like you are, then you can vouch for them as ID for them. Oh, good. She says to me, I say, they do not need ID. She says, you are the ID. You are the ID. I am the ID. And no ID needed.

0:10:28 Clip: I just vouch for them. But you're the ID. I am the ID. That's good. How many people may I vouch for? What is it? It's eight. I can vouch for eight people? Eight people. No idea. We come back live. Thank you. Most poll workers we visited were willing to let us vouch with no questions asked, even when presented with the most absurd situation imaginable. While other poll workers did take issue with our investigation, revealing their awareness that something about this vouching system is deeply flawed

0:10:27 Lydia: And no ID. Oh, my god.

0:10:58 Clip: Or wrong. Yet for some

0:10:58 Lydia: Or maybe you're insane or maybe that

0:11:00 Thomas: I didn't catch that amazing spin. And yeah, also some people were very suspicious, which is either because I'm obviously doing a fucking racist nonsense Republican MAGA bit, or what are they hiding?

0:11:02 Lydia: Yeah Wow

0:11:18 Thomas: God. Okay. So you know nothing about like the details of this, right? All right. What do you, what do you gather from that? I'm putting you on the spot.

0:11:27 Lydia: Minnesota has a way to not have voter ID in place necessarily.

0:11:37 Lydia: They don't have know that there's a limit to how many people you can vouch for and I don't know. I don't know what else So,

0:11:42 Thomas: Yeah, what do you think? So I don't know if you have any guesses as to what's going on. I mean, that's kind of I mean, you're getting the basics, but based on how O'Keeffe presents it in his video, I would say, and that's not what I asked you, but I'm just asking you now, I would say he's strongly leading people to believe that you can vouch for up to eight people with no idea to just vote, right?

0:11:54 Lydia: I would say, right? Yeah, yeah, complete strangers, even.

0:12:05 Thomas: Yeah. Now, did you catch something? There was something interesting in there that you might not have heard, but when he said, as long as you're registered, which it looks like you are, And she points at a screen and says, well, she looks like you are for those who couldn't see.

0:12:06 Lydia: Yeah. Right. Right. Right. So he's presenting himself as someone who is registered to vote in Min-Minnesota. Yeah. I don't think James O'Keefe lives in Minnesota. Ha, ha, ha, ha,

0:12:23 Thomas: Hmm. That sure is interesting, isn't Yeah, he also calls it like the vouching program. I don't know if that was in that clip, but dude, it's not a program. Here's the actual version of this. Would it surprise you to learn that it's not that you can just vouch for someone and then and they can vote without an ID or anything like that. Would that, no, it wouldn't surprise any of us.

0:12:33 Lydia: Mm, yeah.

0:12:48 Lydia: Surprise me. No.

0:12:49 Thomas: There's only one point of vouching, to prove where you live. That's it. Because you vote by precinct, and sometimes you just moved, or you've moved and you haven't updated your address.

0:12:54 Lydia: Oh, interesting. Right. So, like, your spouse could vouch for you, perhaps, or a neighbor.

0:13:06 Thomas: Possibly. Yeah, that's true, yeah, neighbor. It's I think it seems to most often be like sometimes with the elderly. Maybe they live in like an elderly home Kind of thing and that's why there's actually a special part of the rule where if Uh, if you're a facility employee, you can vouch for an unlimited number. And that makes sense because if, you know, not only that only applies if staff vouching for residents of their own facility, like nursing homes, veterans homes, transitional housing.

0:13:16 Lydia: Uh-huh. Oh interesting,

0:13:39 Thomas: Yeah. There's obviously you wouldn't want to put a limit on that because it's like, yeah, you want to, they probably take a bus, you know, or a van And they're going to go vote, of course, because if you're not a psychopath, then that's a nice thing. Hey, we're all gonna go vote, hey, The elderly who live under my care, let's all go vote, do your like civic duty, take advantage of the right you're given as an American, as a person that still has dignity and whose voice still matters.

0:13:37 Lydia: Homes, yeah, mm-hmm, Mm-hmm, yeah. Mm-hmm.

0:14:05 Thomas: Let's all go vote and oh, you're in this uh facility, you haven't changed your address or, you know, like whatever, it doesn't matter. We're not going to try to turn those people away because the person who runs the facility or whatever works there is able to say, yeah, this person lives here. That's it. It's just for where you live. It's not even for registry. It's part of the registration only in so far as it's where you live because you register, you know, in the, in the right precinct.

0:14:22 Lydia: Right. Mm-hmm. But not your identity.

0:14:35 Thomas: Yeah. But it does exactly. And you still have to be an eligible voter. You have to be an eligible voter. So the way it would actually work is again, an eligible registered voter who like works in a care facility and takes care of you, or for example, is able to bring you, you have to be again, a registered voter, or if there's same day registration, which is kind of what they're taking advantage of there in their propaganda, they can be not registered because it's same-day registration, and so as a part of that same-day registration, you can vouch for them being a resident Yeah, that's all it Let's play a little bit more of this here. There's some more, a couple more important things.

0:14:40 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:14:57 Lydia: If they're of their propaganda, Within that precinct, right.

0:15:19 Thomas: Fuck you, dude.

0:15:19 Clip: At the polling place a registered voter from the same precinct signs an oath confirming that they personally know the voter lives there this allows someone without ID to register and vote, and employees of residential facilities may vouch for an unlimited number of facility residents to vote at the facility's address, that's right an unlimited number while Critics view it as a potential for fraud. For example, if a voucher were to lie on this contract and allow eight of his ineligible friends to vote, and the results of that election are announced on the same day, what happens when the oath is further investigated, and it is discovered that those vouched-for

0:15:28 Thomas: Heh. Yeah. Oh yeah and it

0:15:48 Lydia: Yeah.

0:15:55 Thomas: This is his doomsday scenario. Oh, yeah,

0:16:04 Clip: Votes shouldn't have been counted? The results of the election will have already been announced, and this document

0:16:08 Lydia: Okay. What if

0:16:09 Thomas: What if the eight people that, for some reason, you, an insane person, I guess, rounded up and lied about to get eight votes? What if that's bullshit? But you know they already, they already announced the election, now what's funny is I, I paused on this, the margin was like a hundred thirteen thousand on this particular primary election by the way that they're looking, do you think that there's that many people who are using the vouching system, do you think that's gonna make any fucking difference?

0:16:40 Lydia: Doubtful. I mean, they just said that they investigated, you know, fraud in California's voting and stuff and found 28 people in the entire state of California, you know, so I have a feeling that they're not gonna get those numbers in Minnesota either.

0:16:47 Thomas: Oh God throw out the state put the state in the garbage Yeah, I love that wow and they announced the same day, that's and now you can't undo that it's just stupid

0:16:57 Lydia: Yeah.

0:17:01 Clip: Shows that the election workers simply circle a number of the vouchees. There is no other identifying information. Ed Scott Pressler from the organization Early Vote Action says there is no list of these vouchee voters anywhere. When he requested them from areas like Duluth, St. Paul, Minneapolis, and St. Cloud, Minnesota, Pressler says they are nameless, faceless, and recordless.

0:17:05 Thomas: No Mmm.

0:17:23 Clip: So we dressed in full traditional Muslim attire and went in to ask if we could vouch for eight of our unregistered friends. Just the test limits this law and the willingness of election judges to go along with it. Only Muslim women traditionally wear

0:17:35 Thomas: In the video, I can't describe how much some of the pole workers, like there's that one lady who's being nice to Everyone else is looking at him like his head is on fire.

0:17:44 Lydia: End of her time.

0:17:46 Thomas: Like, obviously they're like, what the fuck is this? And you get to be like, oh, they'll just help you ride along. They'll just help you do anything.

0:17:48 Lydia: Yeah, yeah.

0:17:55 Clip: The full face covering, so Cam Higbee was in disguise as my transgender Muslim wife.

0:17:58 Thomas: It's so stupid, it's so racist.

0:18:01 Clip: So you're wearing the top, so basically you're not supposed to shake hands with a man, so what do you got to say?

0:18:01 Thomas: They do so much nonsense. Yeah, this is just racism.

0:18:07 Clip: So once a man tries to shake hands, he has to do it. Yeah, let's get rid of that. Alright, with what? Maybe not that. I'm going to buy the voucher, and then after I'm going to do some like... This is going to be ridiculous. It's going to be great. Hello. I'm going to say that I'm vouching for them. The name is William. I'm voting. I'm talking about the vouching program.

0:18:13 Thomas: They show that this fucking nothing.

0:18:39 Clip: Hello. This is the vote. The name is William. What's your last name? I'm Amalance.

0:18:48 Clip: That is the date of the question. About the vouching program. Okay, if I vouch for them, I can vouch for them with this name that's registered, but they are not registered. That's okay,

0:19:06 Thomas: Yeah, isn't that interesting? He's trying to sound a little non-committal, but essentially you heard him be like, is that the date of birth? Meaning, like, I mean, unless he just gave a name and the guy gave him the date of birth, which I guess is possible if he's just trying to find the right name. Because again, there is no such thing as mass voter fraud.

0:19:15 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Right.

0:19:28 Thomas: There just isn't, especially this in-person way. I mean, tune into Monday's opening arguments when Jenessa really goes through all of this. You know, actually that's going to be a perfect pairing with this. Like Jenessa goes through all the ways you can't steal an election. It's so stupid. There's just no real way to do it. It makes no sense. Most, So for the most part, these are kindhearted community members who were like okay let's find you on the list oh is this you you know and Then he said, so he says yes to birth date, and then he says, as long as you're a registered voter, and he's like, yep, yep, mm-hmm, yep.

0:19:40 Lydia: Nice. Yeah. And

0:20:06 Thomas: You know that day yeah it's like they're answering the question yeah if you are registered you can vouch for them

0:20:06 Lydia: That name. Yes. And it's like, them. Right.

0:20:15 Clip: Fine. Can I bring five more from the opportunity? So you'll get the rest of them and come and they can go today. I can just vouch for them that they are registered, yes? That's a good thing. We go back and we get Miroslav and Ernesto and Mohamed and we bring them here.

0:20:24 Thomas: I love

0:20:37 Clip: We go get the other people and we come back.

0:20:35 Lydia: We bring them and

0:20:35 Thomas: Ernesto So what's interesting here is he I think in his racist ass mind He's thinking this should raise like a bunch of alarm bells now Obviously this should raise a bunch of alarm bells because it's fake and he's obviously doing a fake thing These James O'Keefe setting that aside. I think this is him additionally milking it like oh my god, not only five They're gonna let me get eight and I'm gonna say a bunch of Muslim names and they're like Totally fine as though the proper reactions like wow, you're not just bringing a bunch of Muslims Are you you know, that would be against the law to say do you have any reaction other than like?

Yeah, that's the rules end of interaction, you know, like That it yeah, that's what I'm talking about as a poll worker, yeah Yeah, to show, like, but he's he's putting those details in, there's no reason to do other than to like try to emphasize like, "Oh my, they'll let you get away with anything, and even when I'm doing things that make it look obvious that there's a Muslim conspiracy to vote, to steal votes, they're not even reacting." It's like, yeah, man, 'cuz they, hey, there's not a Muslim conspiracy to steal votes. So if there's not, then no one is on the lookout for a Muslim conspiracy to steal votes. And so when you do this stuff, they're like, "Yeah, that's so..."

0:20:59 Lydia: Yeah, scary. Yeah.

0:21:20 Lydia: Yep, especially as a poll worker. I mean, that's incredibly sensitive. Incredibly sensitive.

0:21:58 Thomas: That's the rules. Okay, we'll see ya, and then he actually shows some of it, but like a bunch of people are following him out, like they're they're looking at him, they're tailing it. He's like, "Oh, we're almost gonna be seen," and all this stuff.

0:22:10 Lydia: That's Yeah, they're probably considering if they need to, you know, report it to whoever's in charge of their precinct.

0:22:15 Thomas: Yeah, and and indeed they did. He's... they're playing it off like, oh, this is this thrilling part of his undercover bullshit. But it's like, no, this just shows that literally every place he went people were like, what are you doing? They're suspicious of him. You know, they're like, they're gonna be nice in the interaction because that's how society works. Like, especially again, as a poll worker... you can't throw people out.

0:22:27 Lydia: Yeah. Like, No.

0:22:37 Thomas: You're not allowed to be like, I don't like your look. No right to vote. Like you can't do that.

0:22:42 Lydia: You can't. Absolutely not.

0:22:43 Thomas: So what, what else would you expect in this situation? Oh God. So, it's so outrageous. So I was trying to think of an analogy for this because they make it seem obviously so sinister that you can just, you can just do this. You can just vouch. And he's like, I can, so I can just say, I can just say, I just do I was thinking of because this is so fucking stupid oh I should say this they didn't do so he didn't sign the affidavit, he didn't vote, no one else voted.

0:22:55 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Okay.

0:23:11 Thomas: Now, on one hand, well, pinning this, you might think that's like okay, no harm no foul for him, but on the other hand, think about what that means. Like, this is as though, like, imagine if you were asking a judge, there's a trial or something, and you're just asking a lefty judge. You're like, "I can testify that I'm not James O'Keeffe." And you'd be like, "Well, are you not James O'Keeffe?" "Yeah, I'm not James O'Keeffe." "Okay, and so how do I do that?" "Well, you just swear in your testimony, this is sworn testimony, that I'm not James O'Keeffe." "Really? Okay." So I would just swear that I'm not James O'Keeffe, winking at the camera. Yeah, that's how that would work. If you weren't James O'Keeffe, you would swear under penalty of perjury that you're not James O'Keeffe. Okay, leftist. You know, like that's what it's like. It's like, yeah, you're describing what a liar criminal could do. Someone who was gonna commit a crime could lie under oath, under penalty of perjury, and say something false.

0:23:51 Lydia: Not how it works.

0:24:11 Lydia: Right. Right.

0:24:17 Thomas: That's true. Like, it's not a sign of how sinister this is. They didn't do it. Like, it's so silly, right? I mean, doesn't that, like, that is kind of what it

0:24:27 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, I mean they're basically saying, here's a way that someone might be able to try and take advantage of the system, but, but then nothing, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

0:24:35 Thomas: Well, not even take advantage, to lie, to commit a crime. Like it's not allowed, you know, so it's kind of worthless. Like what other answer would there be? Like of course, if you're asking like, "Hey, if I swear that I'm a resident and I'm registered," and also, so, so are they? You're saying that means they get to vote? Yeah, are they? Mm-hmm, anyway, see you later. Like why would anyone be like, hmm, no.

0:25:02 Thomas: No, they're telling you the rules and then if you do swear, by the way, this all gets followed up on, it's not, it's not like you just do whatever in terms of voting and they're like, yeah, we'll just, we'll just count it, then we'll just totally count it

0:25:02 Lydia: No, Well, what the votes get in? The votes get in, they call the contest, it's done, right?

0:25:17 Thomas: Yeah Mm-hmm. Yep, and then there's no undo even if it's won by seven votes and the eight people that he who were named Mohammed And for some reason Ernesto guys, so dumb God, they're so dumb and racist So they do these videos, you release them, obviously it creates all the firestorm on the right, but they'll look at how easy it is to do what, you know, fake voting, blah, blah, blah, Muslims, racism, all that stuff.

0:25:27 Lydia: Ernesto.

0:25:40 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:25:41 Thomas: And then obviously some time goes by because that was in August and then just today we got some, uh, we got some documents and that's gavel the gavel way. It's to read some documents. Let's go, we'll take a break. And then now we're going to read some, some documents, some legal documents that resulted from take a look at what I just sent you?

0:25:44 Lydia: Okay. Mm-hmm.

0:26:00 Lydia: I can't wait. Right, this is a summons for one James O'Keefe from the state of Minnesota

0:26:16 Thomas: Yeah, why don't you that read header there, kind of in the box.

0:26:19 Lydia: State of Minnesota plaintiff versus James O'Keefe

0:26:22 Thomas: State of Minnesota versus James O'Keeffe. What great words to read.

0:26:27 Lydia: Can you believe he's only two years older than you when I see him he seems like he's in his 50s He seems so much older But yeah

0:26:29 Thomas: I know. I think of it every this is a criminal complaint. He has been charged with a felony, a felony. It's amazing. I mean I don't want to get anybody too excited. It doesn't have like a massive punishment Yeah, well, let's read it. It's right a couple.

0:26:47 Lydia: Not just one felony though, yeah, yeah,

0:26:50 Thomas: Yeah a couple accounts

0:26:50 Lydia: So the complainant submits his complaint to the court and states that there is probable cause to believe defendant committed the following offenses. Count one, charge, identity theft, transfers, possesses, uses identity of other person, maximum sentence five years and or $10,000 offense level felony and then the offense date of August 11th 2026 that on or about August 11th 2026 in Minneapolis Hennepin County Minnesota James O'Keefe acting alone or intentionally aiding advising hiring counseling or conspiring with another or otherwise procures the other to commit the crime knowingly misrepresented his identity in applying for a ballot depositing a ballot in a ballot box or attempted to vote by means of a voting machine or electronic voting system Count two, the charges, Election Day Act, unlawful voting, misrepresent identity, apply for slash deposit ballot or attempt to vote.

0:27:40 Lydia: This is another maximum sentence of five years and or $10,000 and another felony offense. And the charge description is the same as the previous. So there's basically two different statutes that apply in this case that they're pursuing um, those counts.

0:27:56 Thomas: Yeah, so it's about the identity theft, obviously, involved in voting, because it's not just generic identity theft, it was, yeah, specifically with a ballot. And then it does say unlawful voting, you might think, oh, but they didn't vote. But the statute talks about applying for, you know, you don't get to just like try some lies out when registering to vote or applying to vote. Why don't we read on? And this is not terribly long, and I'm going to enjoy every word. Statement of probable cause here.

0:28:02 Lydia: Right. Yeah.

0:28:25 Lydia: Complainant has investigated the facts and circumstances of this offense and believes the following establishes probable cause. On August 11, 2026, the state of Minnesota held a primary election involving races for federal, state, and county positions. The polling places for these elections were staffed by election judges who have the responsibility ability to oversee the administration of voting at each location. During this primary election, a group of individuals who were not registered voters or eligible to vote in Minnesota elections entered numerous polling places under false pretenses. These individuals included and appeared to be led by James Edward O'Keefe and Cameron Higbee. The named defendants and other unnamed individuals working with them or at their direction visited multiple Minneapolis polling places with hidden video camera devices while donning costumes and modifying their voices to obscure their identities. Videos from these visits were posted online.

0:29:14 Thomas: Oh, but it's a good one. Goof, though. So it's fine do illegal

0:29:21 Lydia: This complaint focuses specifically on the following locations and incidents within Hennepin County, Minnesota. Ward 1, Precinct 1. At this location, defendant Higbee entered the polling place with an unidentified female. The polling place is located at, yadda yadda Video depicts defendant Higbee dressed in clothing to disguise his identity, entering the polling place and repeatedly falsely identifying himself to the election's judges as Identity Theft Victim 1, a registered voter in that precinct.

0:29:48 Thomas: What?

0:29:49 Lydia: Yeah, like literally just stole somebody's identity.

0:29:49 Thomas: Interesting. Yeah.

0:29:52 Lydia: Yeah. Had defendant Higbee truthfully identified himself as a non-resident present at the polls to explore Minnesota's voting laws, he would not have been allowed in the polling location. Election judges allowed defendant Higbee to apply for a ballot because he used the stolen identity of a pre-registered Minnesota voter. Defendant Higbee, however, was prevented from falsely voting by election judges when he refused to sign the appropriate paperwork.

0:30:04 Thomas: Ooh.

0:30:15 Thomas: Yeah, so first thought was like, wow, why didn't they just ask or get, you not give their names or just say, hey, you know, Thomas Smith, for example, just pick a generic name. Yeah, you don't get to just go into the polling places. You're not allowed to do that.

0:30:30 Lydia: That makes sense. You shouldn't be. I mean, people need to feel like they have safe and secure elections, and part of that is protecting your polling locations,

0:30:35 Thomas: Yeah. It's almost like exactly what they would want, as in if you're not a fucking registered voter in that precinct, get the fuck out of there. Ah, so good.

0:30:45 Lydia: Exactly. As depicted in the video and confirmed by statements from the election officials, defendant Higbee approached an election judge staffing the table where one applies for a ballot. Defendant Higbee then proceeded to apply for a ballot by providing the name of identity theft victim won, as well as the address of that same person to the election judge.

0:31:02 Thomas: The address provided, proactively provided the name and the address.

0:31:08 Lydia: The name and address that defendant Higbee used matched a registered voter in the precinct. In the edited video that defendant Higby posted online, he stated in a voiceover, quote, I walked into this polling station with a random name of a random person who was registered to vote in this this precinct. I am not that person.

0:31:20 Thomas: Oh, so a confession.

0:31:25 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Defendant Higbee told staff that he was there to vote and also to vouch for the unidentified female who was with him. The video shows the election judge turning the iPad towards defendant Higbee as part of the process. While continuing to claim to be identity theft victim one, defendant Higbee asked various questions about the vouching process before faking a telephone call and leaving the polling place.

0:31:48 Thomas: And note this is obviously not the video we watched because this, when Higbee was vouching

0:31:53 Lydia: Ward 1, Precinct 5. At this location, defendant Higbee entered the polling place located yada yada yada. He arrived at about 1.15 p.m. and again entered the polling location with no authorized purpose. Defendant Higbee was again disguised in clothing and face coverings to conceal his identity. He was also with an unidentified male and an unidentified female. Before going to the registration table, defendant Higbee indicated to an election official that he was there to vouch for someone, not vote. However, at another point, defendant Higbee was asked by an election judge, quote, are you here to vote today? And he stated, quote, yes. This judge also asked if defendant Higbee lived in the precinct, and he lied, stating that they do live in the precinct. Defendant Higbee was then brought to the table where registered voters apply for ballots. The election judge staffing that table asked defendant Higbee for his name and address.

0:32:39 Lydia: The defendant then proceeded to apply for a ballot by providing the name of Identity Theft Victim 2 to the election judge. The name and address that Defendant Higbee used matched Identity Theft Victim 2, a registered voter in the precinct. This voter was not present and did not give Defendant Higbee permission to use their identity.

0:32:44 Thomas: Hmm.

0:32:56 Lydia: Defendant Higbee then proceeded to commence the vouching process for the unidentified female who was with him, only stopping at the point where an oath must be sworn. And Election Judge 1 reported that the interaction was, quote, quite peculiar, because defendant Higbee asked the same sorts of questions about whether an ID was needed to vote about 10 times. Oh, my God. And these people, they can't act. They can't act cool, like, they had.

0:33:03 Thomas: Yeah. God. No. And they think, it's funny when they think they have something and they have nothing, so like you're telling me, it's like, yeah, that's how the fucking rules work. You idiot.

0:33:28 Lydia: "Election Judge 2 reported similarly odd behavior. Election Judge 2 also stated that he had not experienced another voter get to the point in the process that Defendant Higbee did but not signed the voter oath." Defendant Higbee left but claimed he would return with eight more people. Afterwards, the incident log notes that neither defendant Higbee nor the person with him ultimately voted. This is corroborated in defendant Higbee's video of the interaction. The incident log also noted that the individuals left after one of the election workers asked for an ID.

0:33:38 Thomas: Yeah.

0:33:57 Thomas: So they asked for an ID, huh? That's weird. That... I wonder if that was in your video. Hey, do you have some ID? No, we'll leave. Wow, isn't that exactly how you want voting to work?

0:34:08 Lydia: Upon leaving this polling location, defendant made a recording outside. In the video, he said, quote, so we just went into this polling station. I was dressed just like this. I gave a name that is not me. I said the name is

0:34:18 Thomas: I stole the money. I did. Hear it, you know, my name is.

0:34:19 Lydia: And they said okay you're in the system you can vote today. In the video defendant Higbee is critical of Minnesota's election system because it does not require the showing of IDs. He asserts that his actions on this day exposed how someone could use an ID of a registered voter and falsely Ward 2 precinct 5. The Pratt Community School, yadda yadda yadda, defendant O'Keeffe and defendant Higbee entered this polling location with other individuals.

0:34:24 Thomas: Wow.

0:34:37 Thomas: That's an ID though.

0:34:47 Thomas: Oh yeah, this This is the one we saw.

0:34:49 Lydia: Defendant O'Keeffe went to the table where registered voters apply for ballots by giving their name. The election judge staffing that table asked defendant O'Keeffe for his name. Defendant then proceeded to apply for a ballot by providing the name of identity theft victim three, a person registered to vote in that precinct to the election judge. Further claiming to be identity theft victim three, defendant O'Keeffe confirmed identity theft victim three's date of birth with the election judge before asking questions about the vouching process. In an interview with investigators, identity theft victim three said that he did not get permission for defendant O'Keeffe to use his identity.

0:35:21 Thomas: Yeah, this is a fun one. I'm pretty sure this is this person, but is, this is funny. Yeah. Why don't we just listen to this real quick? Take a quick break from reading to listen to, uh, to this. Let's see.

0:35:29 Lydia: Yeah.

0:35:30 Clip: Undercover video recorded inside Minnesota polling places could land a Florida group of activists in some real legal trouble. Members of the Citizen Justice League say they were testing the state's voter voucher law. But the group allegedly impersonated a real Minnesota voter in the process. Now that voter is speaking out. The video begins with members of the Florida group now calling themselves the Citizens Justice League in what they call Muslim costumes using fake accents and claiming to be Minnesota voters. It's about the vouching program. Okay, if I vouch for them. Registered, but they are not registered. That's okay, that's fine. Can I bring five more from up to eight people? Minnesota's 53-old voucher law is intended to help people who just moved to vote. It allows a registered voter to vouch that someone lives where they say they do. The law does not allow people to impersonate real Minnesota voters. This vote, the name was William. The last name? Will Pomerantz. Can you say your name, Will? Yeah, Will Pomerantz. Your

0:35:54 Lydia: So dorky Okay.

0:36:39 Lydia: Ha,

0:36:39 Clip: Name is Will Pomerantz? Yes. This is the real William Pomerantz, who on election day kept getting odd messages. I actually had a student contact me that had showed me what was online about my identity being misrepresented. So that was pretty much a shock. The group members did not go ahead with voting illegally. Kudos to the poll workers. They reported it afterwards. And frankly, I got to vote that evening without a problem. So, you know, the voting process in my mind works. So the name is William, the last name, Pomerantz. But this man, whose real name is James O'Keefe, may have put himself in legal jeopardy. It's illegal in the state of Minnesota to impersonate another voter, and this is apparently what O'Keefe did. Schultz, Pomerantz, and the Secretary of State all say the video shows the system worked. But as I read the law, you can't impersonate another registered voter, and that's exactly what they appear to have filmed themselves doing.

0:36:40 Lydia: Ha,

0:37:10 Thomas: Weird.

0:37:23 Thomas: Couple of lawyer talking heads here.

0:37:40 Clip: Thank

0:37:40 Thomas: So good ah so good

0:37:41 Lydia: Incredible. Ward 3, Precinct 5, back to the documents. The Twin Cities International School. Defendant O'Keeffe and Defendant Higbee entered the polling location with other individuals and went to the table where registered voters apply for a ballot by giving their names. Defendant O'Keeffe then proceeded to apply for a ballot by providing the name of identity theft victim for a registered voter in that precinct. The election judge, believing that Defendant O'Keeffe was who he identified himself as, confirmed that the individuals registered to vote. Defendant O'Keeffe then asked questions about the vouching system. This interaction is recorded on both defendant Higbee's video and defendant O'Keeffe's video. And then Regarding election day activities, polling place activities, unlawful and voting, Minnesota law states, quote, no individual shall intentionally misrepresent the individual's identity in applying for a ballot, depositing a ballot in a ballot box, or attempting to vote by means of a voting machine or electronic voting system.

0:37:46 Thomas: Uh-huh.

0:38:34 Lydia: The steps required for a pre-registered voter to apply for and receive a ballot are detailed in the election manual published by the Minnesota Secretary of State. During the August 11, 2026 primary election, the relevant election manual outlined, among other things, a multi-step process for a pre-registered voter to apply for a ballot and vote. For a pre-registered voter, providing their name and address to the roster judge is the first step. The Minnesota Secretary of State's office confirmed with investigators that an individual begins the process of applying for a ballot when they approach a roster judge in a polling place, engage with the roster judge, and respond to questions about who they are and where they live.

0:39:08 Thomas: Yeah, so it's like, yeah, that's technically beginning the process then, Kind of just like officially showing when that process begins because it seems like that's the important. Yeah wording in the line

0:39:13 Lydia: Right. They engaged in that behavior, yeah. Defendant O'Keefe entered a polling place without legitimate purpose and intentionally misrepresented his identity to election judges on at least two occasions on August 11, 2026. One occurred at Ward 2, Precinct 5, where he used the name of a voter registered in that precinct, Identity Theft Victim 3, in applying for a ballot. The other occurred at Ward 3, Precinct 5, where he falsely gave the name of a voter registered in that precinct, Identity Theft Victim 4, in applying for a ballot. He also intentionally aided and abetted defendant Higbee in the incidents at Ward 1, Precinct 1 and Ward 1, Precinct 5. And then we have another Minnesota law here regarding identity theft. Defendant O'Keefe used multiple identities that are not his own with the intent to commit and aid in the commission of unlawful activity. This unlawful activity includes repeatedly giving false information to public officials and misrepresenting their identity in applying for a ballot.

0:40:09 Lydia: He also intentionally aided and abetted defend defendant Higbee in the incidents at Ward 1 precinct 1 Ward 1 precinct 5 Defendant is not in custody There we So deserved honestly

0:40:18 Thomas: Ah. So nice. Mwah! Brilliant. Brilliant! Yeah. They gotta get their asses to Minnesota. This is a summons. They gotta do it. This is so nice. It's great to see how, when they're, hey, here's how easy voting illegally is, and they're like, you're under arrest for even thinking about voting illegally. Now, that's just a figure of speech. They're not under arrest. They're probably not gonna be in jail, unfortunately. I wish they would be but yeah it's not well we'll see I mean that part but I mean just before whatever happens if it's a trial or whatever they're You know they're not gonna, it said bail zero dollars in the thing, I, they, I doubt they would be trying to, like, get him, there's no

0:40:29 Lydia: Good Yeah, just fined. Yeah. Mmm, right, right, No. There's no public safety risk or anything, like

0:41:05 Thomas: Just note, if it were the other way, it would be, yeah, I mean the the Prairieland people, they didn't get know, such a nice treatment. So keep in mind that like if this were, the other side of this is ruining people's lives and giving them decades 70 years for moving a magazine in relation to a to a thing. This is not that this is not political activism on the left. This is just following the law and yeah, it's going to be a slap on the wrist probably but I don't know, you know, it's still it's still so nice. It's so nice to see you love it. There's a great press conference where the District attorney was laid it out. I watched the whole thing.

0:41:11 Lydia: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

0:41:35 Lydia: It's satisfying. Thing.

0:41:43 Thomas: It's about 20 minutes. Maybe we'll watch some of it just just for fun

0:41:47 Clip: You all for being here. I'm Hennepin County Attorney Mary Moriarty. Before the August 11th primary election, this office was very clear that reports of unlawful activity related to the election would be investigated and charged, if appropriate. The primary election went smoothly, and the systems we rely on for safe, free, and fair voting functioned well. One way to register to vote on Election Day in Minnesota is to have a registered voter from your precinct go with you to the polling place to vouch that you live in the precinct by signing an oath confirming your address, address. Vouching is commonly used in senior living facilities by residents who have not updated their driver's license to reflect their current address.

0:42:38 Clip: In the 2024 general election, less than 0.6% of votes were cast using the vouching process. That's 0.6%. On the day of the primary election this August 11th, a group of people were attempting to cast doubt on the state's vouching system by posting videos of themselves on social media. We were alluded to this conduct by the Minnesota Secretary of State's office. This conduct has been the subject of investigation and review. That review is now complete. Today, we are charging two individuals, James O'Keefe and Cameron Higbee with

0:42:50 Thomas: Percent. Heh heh heh.

0:42:51 Lydia: Yeah

0:43:21 Thomas: Mwah!

0:43:22 Clip: Felony counts of unlawful voting and identity theft.

0:43:25 Thomas: Ah, so great.

0:43:26 Clip: Free and fair elections are the bedrock of democracy, and their protection is one of our highest priorities.

0:43:35 Clip: Mr. O'Keefe and Mr. Higbee entered polling places in multiple instances, identified themselves using names of registered voters in those precincts without those voters' knowledge or permission. Both men stopped short of signing the oath we all signed before receiving our ballot. But Minnesota law states clearly that no individual shall intentionally misrepresent their identity in applying for a ballot. Having entered polling places without legitimate purposes and intentionally misrepresenting their identity to election judges in applying for a ballot, the charges filed today are appropriate to address the conduct of Mr. O'Keefe and Mr. Higby. I want to reiterate our commitment to safe, free, and fair elections.

0:44:25 Clip: Our offices have regular meetings with Hennepin County election staff in preparation for both the primary and the general election this year. The system for identifying misconduct and responding to it functioned well during the primary, is already you up and running during early voting and we'll be ready on election day to respond to any additional issues. I also want to thank our election judges who witnessed the unlawful conduct, reported it, and cooperated with the investigation. Your work has helped protect our elections and we will have your back during the voting period and on election day.

0:45:04 Thomas: Ah, just fantastic. Really good press conference. She makes sure to repeat everyone's question every single time, which I always love. Yeah, good stuff. There's a in the questions that might be important. Cause some people are like, oh, they didn't try to vote. They didn't, you know, they weren't actually going to But you know, she points out what I've kind of already pointed out, which is like, yeah, but you know, start the application or do the application, you know, that kind of asks, and I don't know if these are gotcha questions or what, but someone asked about the offensive, like, performative, kind of racism crap. Oh, is that part of why this happened? She's like, no, know, you're allowed to do that. That's fine. That's nothing to do with

0:45:05 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Oh, nice, yeah. Yeah.

0:45:39 Lydia: Right, yeah. It's not like violating a law, necessarily. It's offensive, but, you know.

0:45:44 Thomas: Yeah. And that's, you know, you wouldn't want to, as a prosecutor, link this to First Amendment protected speech in any way, because it's not about that. And someone asked about punishment and know she's like it's probably gonna be like probation or something if anything But, but again, she's just kind of speculating. There other thing that I thought was interesting was someone asked, "Without their video that they posted, would you have been able to do this?" Which I, someone's think, probably wanting to know, write a headline or something about how their own video got them in trouble or something it's Actually not true, because again she talks about, like, no, literally at every polling place they went to, the people there were like, "What the fuck is this?" And reported it, like every single time yeah eventually

0:45:47 Lydia: Right. Mm.

0:46:09 Lydia: Problem. Right, yeah. And then reached out to the actual person and said yeah and confirmed it wasn't the person who showed up at the polling place that day

0:46:21 Thomas: Yeah it's like it's not even about the videos, that's you how these much systems are fine, the elections work, this is fine unless you're a fucking asshole trying to make a a prank video, this is just normal stuff. Like normal people just go and vote. They give their name, their address. They're like, yeah, that's me. End of story. That's how it works.

0:46:41 Lydia: You I worked the polls when I was in high school. We had like, Yeah, were able to leave school when we were in like AP government and volunteer to work the polls, and they had like spots for high schoolers. And so I, you know, me, I obviously signed up to do that and it was it was the best day ever honestly it was so fun and just really interesting

0:46:47 Thomas: Oh, really? Yeah, I want to do that Should have thought of that Let's do that sometime we should

0:47:02 Lydia: Yeah yeah let's do it next election

0:47:06 Thomas: Yeah, it's too late to do it for this one anyone drop out. Maybe I mean do you have to take a class or anything? Do you have to know what you're

0:47:08 Lydia: Yeah think we had to do a training but was it was pretty straightforward and we just had like a lot of binders and highlighters I remember, and that a was million years ago because I'm old but not as old as James O'Keefe.

0:47:13 Thomas: Yeah Yeah, they're voting for James Garfield. Haha.

0:47:26 Lydia: Yeah, no, but that'd be fun to do again. I would enjoy that.

0:47:35 Thomas: So, let's go out with a very punchable sound, but that's anything he

0:47:38 Lydia: Mm.

0:47:40 Clip: The politics of fear and weaponized lawfare do not seem to work against me it never has actually it has always backfired against the people who come after me why is that it's because what's at issue here

0:47:49 Lydia: Mm-hmm.

0:47:43 Thomas: This guy's such a child. Is he doing a Tucker Carlson? Huh. Why is that? Huh. What What are we doing? He's pretty much doing that exact bit.

0:47:55 Lydia: Yeah.

0:48:00 Clip: Is not actually political it's fundamental this is about whether citizens still have a right to ask questions of their government servants and such a fundamental The mental right will always prevail if you do not cower at their threats. And the thing about me is, I actually never settle. Most people find lawsuits stressful. The process becomes a form of punishment. But not to me. I actually love this process. I enjoy this process.

0:48:08 Thomas: Yeah. Idiot.

0:48:09 Lydia: Right,

0:48:29 Thomas: Because you're a psychopath. Yeah. What's funny though is he has, yeah. In 2013 he paid a hundred thousand dollars to settle with a fired ACORN worker. So settle With a, was the word I use there. He has settled, I'm all good, because it was upon doing this research that I found out he actually did have a court victory recently, which sucks, and it also goes to show how long the process of justice is.

0:48:31 Lydia: Yeah, exactly. Ugh.

0:48:41 Lydia: You go.

0:49:00 Lydia: Yeah.

0:49:00 Thomas: It's so long In fact, that in 2022, Project Veritas lost a $120,000 jury verdict. It was about this person they put in to be an intern, who then filmed some stuff and like exposed it about like a, know, democratic organization of some kind. I, I'm not going to get into it, but it was, they, they lost. It was like, yeah, this was like essentially wiretapping.

0:49:01 Lydia: Hahaha.

0:49:23 Lydia: Yeah.

0:49:23 Thomas: You you can't like pose as someone you're not to get hired and then like expose undercover video. You know what I mean? Like you're not allowed to just do that. And that was in 2022. It was about something that happened in 2016. So six years until they get convicted. And then just in August, they, it got reversed, but I'm reading the details. It's getting reported as though the whole thing was reversed, but actually it only the money was, which, you know, fine. But I also, I don't know how much that matters to him, you know, $120,000.

0:49:23 Lydia: Mm. Oh, yeah. Right.

0:49:54 Thomas: Also, if it was Project Veritas, I guess it doesn't matter to him at all. It, right? Because I mean, I mean, well, who knows what the arrangement there, if he would have had to pay know, it, cause he's no longer with them, but they did say in their decision, the judges said, no, this isn't actually, let me just read written by a George W. Bush appointee.

0:50:02 Lydia: Right, right.

0:50:12 Thomas: So, you know, who knows. It says, Moss, who I think is the woman that was in but like, obtained the footage by subterfuge, and the jury found that her conduct amounted to fraud, Henderson wrote, joined by Judge Harry Edwards, a Carter appointee. Moss infiltrated Democracy Partners on assignment from O'Keeffe. Just as she had no First Amendment right to gather this footage, he had no First Amendment right to publish. So that doesn't sound like reversing the verdict, right? Sounds like they're still guilty of fraud. You know, it's a civil thing, but like they still committed fraud. Yeah, what actually happened was they wiped out the $120,000 because they said that most of the harm done to that firm was attributable to the video that the conservative group gathered in other venues.

0:50:12 Lydia: Think it was, I I believe. Yeah. Yeah.

0:51:00 Thomas: They're just saying like, their reputation was already harmed by these other videos that were fine. And so it's like, they're still guilty of the fraud they did or I shouldn't say guilty against civil thing, but they still committed fraud kind of against this democracy partners group. But they're like, yeah, but that wasn't why you lost money. So therefore the damage award is, you know, a nominal amount, which is like a dollar. So that sucks bad news, but not entirely bad. I don't think it justifies what they did, It's just they kind of might have gotten lucky, I guess, in getting this decision, but that's 10 years later. God takes so long.

0:51:06 Lydia: So, fraud Then O'Keefe wants to spin it, right, and I read his quote after this verdict. Came quote, "There are no words to describe the magnitude of this victory. It legitimizes and legalizes undercover reporting that I do."

0:51:47 Thomas: That's weird because it didn't do that at all. It just said that the losses were attributable to the other reporting you did that wasn't that. So it's almost the opposite, really. It legitimized the other reporting you did, not the bullshit kind. So yeah, that's the tiny bit of bad news there. But other than that, is this is great. I love it. I can't wait to see where this goes. You know, there's not going to be jail time. I'm sure people are probably reporting that just based on what the you read. There is the maximum penalty kind of thing, but I highly doubt that will happen.

0:51:49 Lydia: Wow. Right.

0:52:17 Lydia: Also, what people are probably hoping for. I

0:52:19 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. But I do think it's entirely possible. He might be a convicted felon, you know, or wait is he already I bet He might already be let's see probably not Yeah, usually says right in the Wikipedia doesn't it'll be like convicted felon No, so that would be nice if we could get to where he has to say his Wikipedia has to say convicted felon James O'Keefe That'd be But just thought we should all have a nice thing. This was a real F around and find out moment. I feel elections are fine actually, and they're secure actually, and you're racist asshole, James O'Keefe.

0:52:29 Lydia: I don't think so.

0:52:52 Thomas: There you go.

0:52:39 Lydia: Yeah. God, it's so terrible.

0:53:14 Thomas: I don't like your look.