WTW153: Texas School Board Cancels Little Shop of Horrors Over a Girl Playing Seymour

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:42 Thomas: Hello, and welcome to Where There's Woke. I'm Thomas. That over there is Lydia. How you doing?

0:00:47 Lydia: I am doing pretty well. I'm warmed up in the green room.

0:00:52 Thomas: No, the show's now. We started the show. It's now. Get out of the green room. You need... No, it's now. We're already in. This is... You can't do warmups during the show.

0:00:56 Lydia: I'm doing my little vocal exercises. I... Have places been called?

0:01:03 Thomas: Yeah. It's neg... It's negative five. Thank you, negative five.

0:01:04 Lydia: Okay. You places. All right. Oh, I'm excited because today we're gonna pair, some, uh, School board controversies, but this time make it musical theater.

0:01:10 Thomas: You thought that was a little thematic, the reason is. Oh, boy.

0:01:21 Lydia: Yeah. So my specialty. What a combo. School boards have in the past, like, this isn't the first time a school board has gotten really upset about a production, necessarily. I mean, we talked recently about a school board getting all up in arms about a piece of classical, or I guess like new classical music, that was going to be performed because it was honoring someone that they thought wasn't worth honoring from the LGBTQ movement, know, transgender activists, that was in Watertown, you know, and then previously there have been issues about like the Laramie Project, some school boards have been really upset with students trying to perform that, but this is a fitting production when we're in spooky season two, Little Shop of Horrors, yeah.

0:02:05 Thomas: So, yeah, that musical that's been performed 40 trillion times everywhere...

0:02:10 Lydia: Lot a lot yeah there's not even a number on it because like it is a very, very popular show for high schools and community theaters across the United States. It's been around for decades. It's not particularly controversial in any way, but somehow a school board found it to be controversial, and that was in casting decisions. And it wasn't casting, yeah, trans species, uh-huh, yeah.

0:02:31 Thomas: Did they cast a plant to play the human? And then it's like, wait a minute, they actually switched the plant and Seymour. And so totally it makes the show so interesting, you know, it's really it's really making a statement I

0:02:43 Lydia: Now it's like someone on the school board actually auditioned Mushnick to be and wasn't cast and so like that's why they're throwing a fit Yeah, that would be really funny.

0:02:47 Thomas: Okay, that would be funny actually that would be great

0:02:50 Lydia: A Yeah, community member like spotlight in the high school production. I always loved those

0:02:51 Thomas: Yeah They're trying to pretend it's about something else. Oh, no, it's just totally I'm not I know I just think we shouldn't cast plants as humans. That's all

0:02:55 Lydia: Yeah Yeah, me take you to where we're at um maybe that'll help us get a little more context too okay well take us to where we're going Okay, we are in Dallas County, Texas, little town in Dallas County, Texas. I say little this is actually a pretty big school district. This is Grand Prairie Independent School District and this is South Grand Prairie High School over 3,000 students at their school and their production of Little Shop of Horrors uh-huh

0:03:06 Thomas: You can't take us to where we're at. We're already there. Take us to where we're going. Oh, thank you.

0:03:29 Thomas: Little shop, little shop, a-ha, and bop she whap. Sorry, I was just saying this, you know, they play like the stuff behind the podcast. Yeah, better. I'll replace that with better sound. Just, I'm just doing the fill in so you know what it's going to be. That's

0:03:35 Lydia: Yeah They did gender blind casting, and through the process of auditions and callbacks, the person that was best suited for the role of Seymour Krelborn, the male lead of the show, was a 17 year old high school senior girl on a motor

0:03:58 Thomas: Drum roll, please, plant. Oh, So wow, this might be controversial unless you know anything about theater because it's been this forever. I mean, it's usually the other way around

0:04:08 Lydia: It's well it was usually the other way around when women weren't allowed to do theater

0:04:12 Thomas: But like the idea of someone be playing the gender they're not is the as old as theater itself

0:04:14 Lydia: The opposite yeah, yeah Especially for girls playing boys because girls tend to be more prevalent in theater.

0:04:25 Thomas: Kind of tough to get and I you know this is Texas it's a Dallas County so maybe it's a little more you know like instantly in my mind I'm like Texas I you know, I think of my tiny red town that I was in, you there was a reason that I could get pretty much any part I wanted, and it wasn't because I was very good.

0:04:40 Lydia: Talk controversial casting, about though. You guys did the Wiz topic for another day.

0:04:44 Thomas: Okay, so you're getting me canceled, huh? I wasn't in The Wiz, okay?

0:04:46 Lydia: You weren't in charge of the decision to

0:04:49 Thomas: I also wasn't in But I saw The Wiz, I thought it was great, but it was all of our white school.

0:04:49 Lydia: Do the whiz. Yeah.

0:04:56 Thomas: However, the only thing that makes it better is I do think it was the amazing black musical director who wanted to do So I do think that's, I don't actually know because again, I wasn't in it, but that's my guess. Otherwise someone else said, let's do an all white kid version of The Wiz and the black music director was like, okay, I guess. Yeah, look, it aughts. Was It was the early aughts, it was a different time.

0:05:02 Lydia: Oh, there you go. Nice.

0:05:18 Lydia: Yeah, we know better, we do better, right?

0:05:20 Thomas: There wasn't race back then.

0:05:23 Lydia: But I want to walk us through everything that happened here and where we're at now, because it's very, very interesting and how the school district has handled this, but I think we have to take our break first before we're gonna really get into the meat and potatoes.

0:05:34 Thomas: All right. Well, if you'd like to support the show, go to patreon.com/wherethereswoke, that's where you can get the no ads, the goodies, and support Lydia taking over the show and turning it into what she's always wanted it to be: spilling the tea on local community theater that's why she oh yeah you're a high school correction but still you know well I assume that's next.

0:05:53 Thomas: But I guess the stupid school board can't really shut those down. Pick the ones they can actually control, so yeah.

0:05:48 Lydia: High school productions. Yeah. Why not? Mm-hmm, yeah.

0:06:00 Thomas: Anyway, support that. We'll be right back. And why can't I think of any plant-related jokes? Yeah, nothing. Musical to try to joke about yeah

0:06:09 Lydia: If you want uh, some good plant bonus content, we have no illusions on this month. That's a weed joke for people.

0:06:16 Thomas: It that's a guy who's fond of plants that's that's for sure he's he'd probably take the plant side in a little shop most likely yeah that was great bonus where we We talked about, of course, God awful movies making fun of the terrible Ben Shapiro thing where he took advantage of like a good actor who was canceled. That That must have been a real cause for celebration over at the at the Daily Wire. Like every time anyone with any talent gets canceled, all of those assholes must be like, yes, yes! Finally, We can make something using someone who has skill because they got canceled, and then naturally they'll have to make the right wing pivot.

0:06:22 Lydia: Probably yeah Their previous options, Gina were Carano and Rob Schneider, so boy

0:06:55 Thomas: And they're great, but you can only do so many movies with them. A titan of comedy and a titan of acting? I don't know. No. Yeah. It's true. Like anyone with any... They're rooting for people with actual talent to get canceled so that they can make their dumb movies. But anyway. All right. patreon.com slash Werther's Woke. We'll be back with more plants. Suddenly see more.

0:07:21 Lydia: Okay, indulge me for just a some minute. People might not know the plot of Little Shop of Horrors. I'm gonna be talking about some of the character names and I think it's worth knowing

0:07:28 Thomas: Can't we just play that song? Doesn't the song do it like duh, duh, duh, the year, but like, doesn't it do a song that does the exposition or whatever?

0:07:35 Lydia: Uh-huh on the 24th day in the month of September and you're not too long before my own yeah general plot summary of Little Shop is the romantic lead Seymour Krelborn he is a meek shopkeeper works for someone named

0:07:38 Thomas: There's a total eclipse of the Sun yeah something should have He's like a dork who looks like Buddy Holly,

0:07:55 Lydia: They have plants that they try to sell, like a flower shop kind of thing. He's in love with someone else who works at the shop named Audrey, but she is in a relationship with a dentist, Oren Scrivello, who is sadistic and hurts her. These are all important to the story of the woke controversy, I promise you. And Seymour would never approach Audrey on his own, but with the help of a plant that comes from outer space that he ends up befriending, um, he gets more courage to do that, but it is going to cost him because the plant wants blood, and so that leads to a lot of dangerous decisions that Seymour must make throughout the story in order to try and get the girl. So, that's where I'm gonna leave it for the plot summary, aren't you proud of me? I could have spent the whole episode talking about it.

0:08:38 Thomas: Wow, yeah, I thought we'd be here for 20 minutes.

0:08:41 Lydia: Yeah, no we're not. We're gonna keep moving along. But as you said in the pre-show, a musical theater show that's been around for a long time, decades upon decades. It is through Music Theater International for the rights. Music Theater International does not care who you cast in the roles, but the roles must be portrayed as written. So Seymour, you can cast a girl, they are not.

0:09:01 Thomas: So that's important I was gonna ask you yeah are they changing the gender of c more okay so it's just a

0:09:07 Lydia: Ana Mota would be playing Seymour Krelborn, exactly, as written.

0:09:07 Thomas: Girl playing Seymour him are we doxing the student does she is she cool with it okay guess she wants she wants to get her real out there probably you know she's preparing

0:09:12 Lydia: Ana Mota, yeah, she's public, mm-hmm, Yeah. I mean, she's the president of the theater kids, I guess. I don't know, like, the thespians for the high school, they nominate officers every year, and she's the president for this year, her senior year. So, I mean, she's very well-liked there, and very talented. Mean, she earned this role. But this show, but this show is produced, it's like, you know, routinely top five, you know, musicals that's produced across the nation in high schools every single year. It is very, very popular, and so this school is going to be doing a Little Shop. Please note that this school did this show four years ago.

0:09:22 Thomas: Oh.

0:09:33 Thomas: So you say. Yeah, I think it was all politics, personally.

0:09:52 Thomas: Oh. Was it any good?

0:09:54 Lydia: I don't know, I didn't get to see it, so who knows, but there were not issues as far as I'm aware. At that time when they did this show, keep that in mind. So last month they did the auditions and callbacks

0:10:05 Thomas: I love that we're, again, we're having to scrutinize a high school play. Like for a moment I was going to be like, yeah, other than Jake kept forgetting his lines. Like is, this is the level of thing that we have to do because of the idiots, because of the MAGA morons. I was just about to say too, don't tell them that they're called thespians, they'll never get to do another show.

0:10:11 Lydia: Yeah Yup. Yeah. Oh, I know. I know. So, Onomota, you know, auditioned, did callbacks. This isn't her first foray into portraying men on stage. Well, I guess she played boys before. She played in Pinocchio. She played Jack in Into the Woods. Super understandable. That's a very high tenor part. It can be very challenging for high school boys, a lot of whom their voices are cracking and their registers are changing during the high school years, it can be tough. So she was cast as Seymour. They started doing rehearsals. About a week into the rehearsals on October 6th, her teacher, who is the director for this production and the drama teacher, told her that the district is concerned about the casting choices that were made because of Senate Bill 12, because of what was told to them, the drag ban. It's not, and keep that in mind because the district will keep changing their minds about what issue the actually

0:11:09 Thomas: That's not drag, is I guess, like, okay, in a theatrical sense, do you call that doing it in drag, or is drag a specific performance?

0:11:24 Lydia: Drag is a specific art form. I think it's a specific art form. I... Yeah. So the district said that the school could do the show, but she could not play Seymour. That Seymour would be portrayed by the understudy who was a boy.

0:11:26 Thomas: Okay. Yeah, I by the president of the board's kid who is a very good actor and definitely deserved debt.

0:11:41 Lydia: Yeah, I know. Honestly? Honestly? It almost feels like there's something weird like that even going on.

0:11:48 Thomas: That'd be funny.

0:11:49 Lydia: And that Ana would be able to share the part of Audrey. So someone had already been cast as Audrey as the female lead. Ana would be allowed to step into that role and they would split the performances. Ana understandably said, I'm not doing that. I auditioned for this role, I worked hard for this role, we've started rehearsals for this role. I'm not taking opportunities away from another kid in the program.

0:12:00 Thomas: Yeah,

0:12:13 Lydia: This is stupid.

0:12:13 Thomas: You don't like tape that that would be so frustrating to splitting a roll is the most annoying thing like there's no reason to do other than you have too many, like, girls, probably.

0:12:14 Lydia: This is so dumb, or like, like if a role is like particularly demanding or something like that, I could see, like, if the plan from the beginning was to split the performances or if you're trying to give more opportunities to more kids or something like that. But that was not the plan when they did this, when they auditioned. So she went to Instagram on October 8th and issued a statement. "Hello, my name is Ana Mota. I'm a student at South Grand Prairie High School. On October 1st, I earned the role of Seymour in our school musical Little Shop of Horrors. I had the same opportunity as everyone else did and was ultimately decided to be the best fit for the role.

On Tuesday, October 6th, I was informed that I will no longer be allowed to portray this role due to a decision and its legal team concerning Senate Bill 12. For those unaware, SB 12 prohibits sexually oriented performances on public property in the presence of anyone under 18. This refers to drag performances. On August 25th, Judge David Hittner blocked the state of Texas from enforcing SB 12, ruling unconstitutional and a violation of First Amendment rights.

I spoke to the school district on October 8th and was told that the Texas Education Administration did not give the district instructions to disregard the initial ruling Senate Bill 12."

0:12:29 Thomas: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

0:13:26 Lydia: In the end, their compromise was to change the musical altogether. I do not feel like this was a compromise. Title IX states, quote, No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, denied be the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving federal financial assistance. The district was afraid they were teetering the line of the laws stated in SB 12 and decided to take extreme caution Removing me from the role in turn They violated Title 9. I was excluded from participation in an education program receiving federal financial assistance because I'm a female

0:13:57 Thomas: Yeah, that's got to that's be pretty cut and dry. Like it's like, well, because you are a girl, you can't do this thing. There's the easiest like case.

0:13:59 Lydia: Yeah Right It seems so incredibly clear She goes on to say that they failed me as a student, they failed my school, they failed every student cast in this musical, but most of all, they failed this district. I do not want a new musical. I want the part I auditioned for in the musical I expected to do my senior year. I do not believe it is a fair compromise to take everyone's parts away instead of just giving what is rightfully mine back district. What I want is this musical and the original casting reinstated. And then everyone went on fall break. So everyone got a little bit of a breather.

0:14:30 Thomas: Oh wow.

0:14:31 Lydia: Yeah, fall break in that district was yeah, they

0:14:33 Thomas: Fall break? What the hell is fall break? These woke kids, I'm on the side of school board.

0:14:39 Lydia: Well, the school board got it too, so whatever

0:14:40 Thomas: Yeah, they probably made the woke fall break.

0:14:44 Lydia: October 9th to the 13th and October 13th. This story got picked up in the news, and the district had to issue a statement because they were getting calls from news organization saying, "What do you have to say about this?" And they said

0:14:55 Thomas: They're getting calls saying, this sounds like the dumbest fucking thing anyone's ever done. Is that true? And they're like, well, hold on, let's think of

0:15:03 Lydia: So they said, in the musical, a romantic relationship develops between the two main characters.

0:15:07 Thomas: Oh, my God. Oh, sorry. Should I react?

0:15:12 Lydia: When district leadership learned of this issue, and in consideration, yeah, remarkable, remarkable. Remarkable. You've never done a musical with a romantic relationship?

0:15:14 Thomas: Sorry. We just learned that there's a romantic relationship in a musical.

0:15:26 Lydia: Remarkable.

0:15:25 Thomas: What do they think musicals would otherwise, like what is left? If you don't have a love story, what are you doing?

0:15:30 Lydia: Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. When district leadership learned of this issue and in consideration of themes in the musical involving an abusive relationship, a decision was made to pull that production and find something more appropriate. This decision was made in light of the district's ongoing effort to ensure its programs remain consistent with Senate Bill 12 and all applicable, a whole lot. That is the weirdest statement.

0:15:40 Thomas: Mm, yeah.

0:15:52 Thomas: Yeah, it's so funny.

0:15:53 Lydia: I mean, first of all, like I said before, they did this show four years ago at this exact same school. Like, this is also a very common show.

0:16:01 Thomas: They did it four years,

0:16:03 Lydia: Just four years ago. Yeah, just four years ago. Also, the romantic relationship piece is there is a single kiss that happens

0:16:03 Thomas: I, really? Well I think in their mind they're, yeah, they're just saying because it's gonna be a girl or whatever, right?

0:16:13 Lydia: Yeah exactly and I wish they were more clear in the statement because this is like it just reads so ridiculous but there is a single kiss that happens

0:16:18 Thomas: Yeah, it's so stupid. Well I think maybe by that time they're probably realizing like, oh, obviously Title IX says we can't say it's because she's a girl. So they're just we learned that there's a romantic relationship.

0:16:30 Lydia: Right, right, right. So don't say anything about that. Yeah, could be, could be. But that kiss that happens in the show, in a lot of high schools, they'll just kind of block without it. You don't need And so the kiss was not going to be done in this production.

0:16:44 Thomas: Did they mention a kiss in the statement?

0:16:47 Lydia: No, that's, but like, the only thing that would, would indicate romance besides, like, pining, I guess.

0:16:49 Thomas: Right, but yeah, no, I mean, the story isn't like, The story is he's trying to get her, like that's what the story But point is, they had already decided they're not going to do the kiss or whatever?

0:16:54 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, they had already decided they weren't gonna do that.

0:17:04 Thomas: Weak.

0:17:05 Lydia: Um... But also the abusive relationship is, again, it's a campy musical. It's a dentist who is sadistic. Yes, like it can be blocked to be pretty abusive. I mean, and the lines are pretty abusive. But again, this is not a new musical. This is not a surprise to anybody who's been alive.

0:17:23 Thomas: Yeah, if you haven't seen it or the movie, the joke, I mean, it's pretty funny. The joke is that it's a dentist and he likes hurting people and it's like, because yeah, the dentist sucks.

0:17:30 Lydia: There's an entire song about it. Yeah, yeah.

0:17:33 Thomas: We all hate going to the dentist, except Lydia, who studied for the dentist, so she was fine with look, why are we even entertaining this? This has nothing to do with why they did it. We know it has nothing to do, I'm gonna stop myself from even analyzing that part.

0:17:44 Lydia: Exactly, exactly. Here's another reason why it has nothing to do with why they actually intervened in this case. There's another school in the exact same district who's doing this show this year, and they're not being called to change their show. So, that is a lie in this statement, that it has to do with a romantic relationship, that it has to do with concerns about, know, abuse that's being portrayed on stage. If that were the case, there would be, like, a district-wide moratorium on doing Little Shop of Horrors, and there is not. It is this one single production.

0:17:54 Thomas: Oh my God. Oh really? Oh God, don't give them any ideas.

0:18:14 Lydia: Yeah. So, really, what this is about is SB12, and from their initial conversations and the initial understanding of what SB 12 they were talking about, it's the drag ban, and the reason why I say which SB 12 they're talking about is because there was one in 2023, which is the drag ban, and there is one in 2025, which is not the drag ban, it's about parental rights, so SB 12 from 2023 just in general it's targeting sexually oriented performances their words not mine often referred to as the drag ban, any time where that performance is done in front of people younger than 18, it is a concern, they cannot have it on public property, et cetera, et

0:18:36 Thomas: Oh, wow.

0:18:56 Thomas: When I can see the two leads kiss.

0:18:59 Lydia: On October 15th, so everyone is under the idea that they're talking about this SB 12. People are what like, about this production is drag? Like, what about this production is, like, a sexual performance?

0:19:09 Thomas: Well, that at least kind Of fits, if it's drag, like I could see someone thinking that's drag, but is that law and effect, or did one gets struck down or anything? Because I feel like that one's a pretty big First Amendment violation.

0:19:23 Lydia: So, it's still facing legal challenges. I wouldn't say that it's like not in effect, but it's also not in effect. You know what I mean? It's kind of in this like legal limbo, where they're fighting it through the courts. I guess like if that's the law that they're citing, it would be reasonable for the students to be like, well, you don't necessarily have the ability to force that on us because it's all pending litigation, right? So like, why are you holding us to that.

0:19:25 Thomas: Hmm Yeah there we're on a break yeah Yeah, and of course, forgetting that that's an insane application of that, even ... Do we need to get into the wording of that or is it just drag? I guess it doesn't matter Cause you're saying they're not saying it's this anyway.

0:19:55 Lydia: No I mean yeah yeah so then October 15th they held a board meeting, it was their first board meeting after this, and about a dozen students and parents came to protest what was happening at the high school. And the board president spoke, her name's Emily Lyles, and she clarified what the cancellation was about. She said that it had been widely misunderstood and that they meant 2025 SB 12, not the 2023 one.

0:19:58 Thomas: Okay. Okay. Okay, well that's probably totally fine.

0:20:24 Lydia: Yeah, but she never explains how it violates SB 12 from 2025

0:20:30 Thomas: And that's the parental what? What is that one?

0:20:32 Lydia: Yeah, so we'll talk about that now and also part of this board meeting They announced that frozen will be the musical instead of little shop For the school because So SB 12 from 2025.

0:20:41 Thomas: So the, sorry, the school board is just like, we're the captain now. We're the casting director. Yeah, we're the artistic director now. You're doing Frozen. What? It's so stupid. The amount of dumb that these fucking people are, that we just apparently live with. I don't know how anyone lives with this. I don't know how these people aren't laughed out of the entire society, but that's where we are. Hopefully there's an election for these things now, maybe.

0:20:46 Lydia: Mm-hmm artistic directors. Mm-hmm Yep, yep

0:21:10 Thomas: I mean, hopefully, we'll see.

0:21:10 Lydia: Yeah, I'm not sure who's up for re-election, SB 12, the 2025 version, is a public education law. And so this is focused on parental rights. And again, those restrictions on diversity, equity, and inclusion, anything that could be seen as supporting transgender students and support services related to LGBTQ students, it's pretty broad and wide sweeping.

0:21:35 Thomas: Yeah, there's just no way could possibly be enforced, I mean, it's too vague.

0:21:40 Lydia: Great point. So the key provisions here are that there There must be written parental permission for health services, counseling, psychological evaluations, and human sexuality instruction. It bans pre-kindergarten through 12th grade instruction or activities related to sexual orientation, gender identity, yeah.

0:21:47 Thomas: Okay, that's nothing. Okay, this is a musical about a plant.

0:21:57 Lydia: It restricts school staff from supporting social transition pronouns and names, prohibits gender and sexual orientation focused student clubs.

0:22:00 Thomas: Musical about plant. Oh, oh, they can't use the character name because that's like, yeah, And if you were to say he when it's Seymour, you're actually using the preferred pronouns.

0:22:08 Lydia: That's a preferred name now. Yeah. Yeah.

0:22:16 Thomas: I get it now. But you know what? I'm on their side.

0:22:19 Lydia: The district is saying that's the law we actually meant that this is violating.

0:22:25 Thomas: That's also dumb.

0:22:25 Lydia: But it doesn't say in the law anywhere, in the language anywhere, how this applies in theater, that it doesn't prohibit students from portraying roles of other genders in theater.

0:22:36 Thomas: Yeah, duh. That would be insane.

0:22:39 Lydia: Additionally this law isn't without its own legal issues. There are current lawsuits regarding SB 12 but unfortunately they're not applicable to Grand Prairie Independent School District. One major lawsuit is filed by the ACLU of Texas, the Transgender Law Center, and Baker McKenzie, a that's law firm. And in it's federal court challenging the four main provisions of SB 12, saying that, you know, this is a violation of, of all of these rights, et cetera, et cetera. And there's actually a preliminary injunction in place in three school districts in Texas. Houston ISD, KD ISD, and Plano ISD. So they're not allowed to enforce those provisions that have been challenged from SB 12. But what you didn't hear was Grand Prairie ISD there. So we have this disjointed situation across Texas about what's actually happening and what's not.

0:22:51 Thomas: Hmm.

0:23:32 Thomas: So wait, was that a state lawsuit or a federal lawsuit that was? Yeah, so I have to think that if they hadn't done away with universal injunctions, there would just be an injunction on this. Cause it's weird to be like, like thinking about how dumb it is to be like, this law is potentially unconstitutional and it's being applied to children. Okay, let's stop it, but just for these three schools.

0:23:42 Lydia: It's Yeah, I think that's a great point. The state law, yeah, yeah,

0:23:56 Thomas: That makes no sense.

0:23:56 Lydia: Yep, right, exactly. So this whole situation has been really frustrating, understandably, for Ana, I mean obviously all of the students, but Ana is who we hear from a lot, as well as her mom, we actually hear from her mom quite a bit too, so Ana spoke at the school district board meeting after they announced, oh we actually mean SB 12, the 2025 version, and you guys are gonna do Frozen.

0:24:22 Thomas: Did they secure the rights and stuff? Did they do, like, I just, I just want to know, like, how, how involved this school board got with the thing. Did they, like, I know, like, have they done any of that? Or they're just like, we like Frozen. Do that. You know what I mean? Like, I wouldn't be surprised.

0:24:24 Lydia: Yeah I know I know be. It really could

0:24:41 Thomas: We like Olaf. He's funny. Do that one.

0:24:44 Lydia: So Ana said, part of what she said during her presentation to the school board during public comment: "I ask that you look at the exact wording of Senate Bill 12 and find what is it in that bill that prevents me from portraying a male role in a theatrical context. Ask yourselves if the district's fear of violating SB 12 trumps my rights being violated under Title 9." She's giving them warnings over and over over, from what I can, Grand Prairie ISD said its decision, quote, "does not diminish the accomplishments and the talents of these students," but it does. After days of auditions, everyone in the cast earned their role. The district is throwing away those accomplishments. "To everyone on this board, I'm pleading that you reflect on your mission statement that you have set, which is to provide an exceptional learning community committed to student academic growth, innovation, and equity for all. Equity is in their statement, by the way.

0:25:22 Thomas: And to be the biggest pains in the ass in the fucking world What?

0:25:30 Lydia: Yeah. Ask yourself if you have indeed promoted growth, innovation, and equity for all throughout the situation. And then her mother got up and spoke, just very quickly, some some of what she said: "Here, I believe my daughter was discriminated against based on the definition provided under Title IX, and I believe SB 12 was misinterpreted."

0:25:45 Thomas: You know why she thinks that? It's probably the part where they're like, "We're discriminating against your daughter" on the basis of her gender.

0:25:49 Lydia: Mm-hmm yeah there comes a time when you need to take a stand because staying silent is taking the side of the oppressor Houston ISD, KD ISD, and Plano ISD decided to take a stand those three that won their the preliminary injunction, Why not GPISD? Why not take a stand? Through a news reporter, I learned that the district was referring to the 2025 SB12 concerning DEI rather than the 2023 SB12 concerning the drag ban. However, this was never clarified during my conversation with Dr. Meyer, who is the area chief considered, you know, just below the superintendent for the district, and Mr. Morse, the executive director of fine arts for the district. Furthermore, Furthermore, I still have not received anything in writing from the district explaining its position or answering my questions. What part of SB 12 are you referring to?

How are you legally interpreting the law to conclude that my daughter's role violated whichever SB 12 you are referring to?" She still did not get any answers even after that board meeting, even after publicly calling them out during the public comment. And so, this week, as we are recording this, the reason why we know Ana Mota's name, part of or the reason why we know Ana Mota's name, is she's a minor, but she is choosing to use her name, and she is suing the district and the superintendent in federal court. And she has to do it a way, like, via her parents and stuff, know, because of being under 18, I think. They are citing Title IX. Her Title IX rights have been violated and they gave the district clues that they had concerns about this since October 8th when she first wrote that Instagram post.

0:26:59 Thomas: Nice.

0:27:17 Thomas: Man, I don't know why you keep saying that. They know that. They

0:27:20 Lydia: I know I know but it's like that's what we're gonna do that's what we're gonna do that's what we're gonna do you know. So I thought it'd be fun to kind of read through a little bit of the complaint together. I know it's not a law show but just kind of touching on some of the stuff Ana Mota is a 17-year-old female high school senior at South Grand Prairie High School, an institution operated by GPISD. She is not transgender. Ana has participated in theater throughout her middle school and high school years portraying both female and male roles. And then it talks about some of the things we've talked about here that, you know, she auditioned the show. She didn't audition necessarily for C more specifically, but she participated in callbacks for that was deemed to be the best fit.

0:27:21 Thomas: Don't need any clues. Yeah.

0:27:57 Thomas: And it really is a role that a girl could play, I hadn't even thought about that, it like really is fine, you know, like obviously I don't care and then do whatever because who cares but like even if you were, I don't know, kind of conservative, it's like it's fine, girls play men and roll then play girls in theater, it happens all the oh shit I just realized don't let them see 1956 fucking Peter Pan

0:27:59 Lydia: Yeah, why not?

0:28:14 Lydia: You know, through a lot of the discussion that I've I was just going to say that a lot of people have been talking about Peter Pan. It's, it's not just 1956, it's, no, no, no, but it's not just it's that, traditionally Peter Pan is is cast as a woman, as a girl, to always portray Peter Pan.

0:28:22 Thomas: Okay I I just realized was a guess I don't know arrest

0:28:35 Lydia: Like, yeah, it's, it's traditionally been that way. Every production I've ever seen, Peter Pan is always a girl. Always. Even though Peter Pan is a boy, like the character Peter Pan. And that's just always the way it's been.

0:28:35 Thomas: Mary Martin now Yeah God, that's so funny. I didn't even think of that until just when I said that. That's, show you where, how far we've come into the fascism. Mary Martin playing Peter Pan was just on network television, which back then was the one channel, so all of the earth, of the country anyway, watched a woman play Peter Pan.

0:28:58 Lydia: Television. Mm-hmm. Like, Mm-hmm.

0:29:08 Thomas: And weirdly, they didn't all die, or explode or turn trans

0:29:11 Lydia: Nope. Where are we? And they wore a lot of makeup and stuff in that production too like Cyril, what's-his-face? What's-his-last-name?

0:29:19 Thomas: Yeah, Cyril Richard, he's the best yeah uh oh oh Peter Pan on stage in 1954 was when I guess the musical kind of started but the, you know what? It was the year that turned everybody gay and hippie and it started the hippie revolution because they saw a woman playing Peter Pan. That's what

0:29:20 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:29:36 Lydia: Incredible. Would any of the schools in Texas be able to do, well I guess maybe not in those three school districts where they're challenging certain, well maybe not, I don't Hairspray, Edna Turnblad, Tracy's mom, is the part is written to be a man playing the mom. How would that work? You can't I guess that would fit under the drag ban, maybe? I don't know. This is all so confusing. Just stop it, you guys. Just stop it, Texas.

0:29:52 Thomas: Hmm. It's almost like this is stupid. This is fucking stupid. It's stupid when you're you're not a fucking expert. It's even stupider when you're trying to tell them what musicals they should do because you don't like one casting choice. Freaking losers. God, they're losers.

0:30:01 Lydia: Haha. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It, like, just boils down to, like, trust your teachers too. I mean, really?

0:30:20 Thomas: I think it boils down to go kill yourself. That's what I think. I think These boards, people that do this, should go kill themselves rather than do this. If, if the, if the time arises in your life that you're like, you know what, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna take away a high school girl's dream role for this fucking stupid reason, just go drive off a bridge.

0:30:22 Lydia: Oh, my gosh.

0:30:39 Lydia: Mm.

0:30:39 Thomas: By yourself don't hurt anyone else

0:30:41 Lydia: So, the lawsuit continues to talk about how the district directed the theater faculty member that Anna had to be removed from the role, had to be replaced by a male student, that the offer would be that she could split the role of Audrey, et cetera, et

0:30:54 Thomas: Oh My god, you know what they should have done replace her with a male and then cast a boy as Audrey

0:30:55 Lydia: Cetera. As Audrey? Yeah. Yeah. The other thing I was thinking about while we were going through this was one of the best productions of Little Shop that we ever saw had a female Audrey too. The plant. And like that was so good.

0:31:13 Thomas: Mm-hmm Yeah, how does that work in there fucking mythology? The plant can't be a girl

0:31:18 Lydia: I don't know. Yeah exactly do you have you decided what an alien species of plant like what that would be

0:31:24 Thomas: Yeah, hold on does the plant have a penis or vagina oh

0:31:28 Lydia: Also, also, here's the thing, because the plant's portrayed on stage by a puppet, but the voice is done off stage, so do the puppeteer has to be like in man we're gonna get complicated

0:31:36 Thomas: Yeah, that's true. These are questions you need to bring up to the board. For serious though, like they should just ask them all these questions like, oh, so can, wait, can the puppeteer be a man or does that need to be, can it be a woman? You know, yeah.

0:31:50 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. Let's get specific, you guys. GPISD's stated basis for removing Anna from the role of Seymour was A, that Anna is female, B, that a female student was portraying a male character who develops a romantic relationship with a female character, NCGPISD's asserted concern about an effort to comply with the 2025 version Texas Senate of Bill 12. Nancy Jimenez-Mota, the mother, made multiple requests in writing asking for an explanation of what provision of SB 12 would be violated if she played the role of Seymour, whether any written district policies stated such limitations. GPISD never responded to those requests. And then they talk about her speaking at the various board meetings, and continually nothing has happened and no one has talked to her about why they are actually pursuing this. Then they did an entire section of this lawsuit kind of examining Senate Bill 12 from 2025 that the district has said, "This is the bill we need."

0:32:46 Lydia: And the header is "Texas Senate Bill 12 and Its Inapplicability to Theatrical Crosscasting." So they go through each of the provisions of this law so that they say the social transition provision, and they dissect it, what its intended use is. And they say, Anna Mota

0:33:01 Thomas: This is a fucking musical about a plant, so none of that applies.

0:33:04 Lydia: Is not transgender and was not engaged in any personal gender transition. She was portraying a scripted fictional character in an official school theatrical production, a centuries-old theatrical tradition. The next provision, the LGBT curriculum provision. Anna's casting as Seymour did not constitute instruction, guidance, or programming regarding sexual orientation or gender identity. The role of Seymour is a male fictional character whose scripted attributes were to remain unchanged."

0:33:16 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:33:32 Lydia: The DEI provision is another one they call Yeah, well, so it says that it restricts diversity, equity, and inclusion duties defined to include developing or implementing policies, procedures, trainings, activities, or programs that reference race, color, ethnicity, gender identity, or sexual orientation. And they say, an official school theatrical production cast according to the school director's artistic judgment does not on its face fall within this definition.

0:33:35 Thomas: What would that mean?

0:33:56 Lydia: Like, how? How would that apply?

0:33:56 Thomas: Not at all. Yeah. And the idea that like, want, if they are interpreting it as, oh, well, you cast a woman to try to increase diversity. It's like, no, no, that's the opposite.

0:34:05 Lydia: Not in the theater.

0:34:06 Thomas: It's musical theater. Yeah, it's like, there's, if anything, you actually need male affirmative action in the theater. Like you just need more boys.

0:34:07 Lydia: Yeah. We're on board for that actually at this point, like please, yeah.

0:34:16 Thomas: Yeah, you just need more boys to do theater. Make the football players do theater. Just make them, force them. Be a better world.

0:34:24 Lydia: None of the four substantive provisions of SB 12 contains an express prohibition on cross-sex casting and theatrical productions. SB 12 contains no text that can reasonably be read to require an actor's biological sex to match the sex of a fictional scripted character.

0:34:36 Thomas: No. Well there is the part of the musical where Seymour whips out his big old dick.

0:34:45 Lydia: Yeah, I forgot about that part, you're right, you're right.

0:34:47 Thomas: Yeah, got to be honest with audience, our you know.

0:34:50 Lydia: It says that there is a section within SB 12 that itself contains a statutory savings clause providing that it may not be construed to limit a student's ability to engage in speech or expressive conduct protected by the First Amendment. Theatrical performance is core expressive conduct protected by the First Amendment.

0:35:03 Thomas: Boy. Yeah. They've got too many reasons that this

0:35:09 Lydia: They also say that there's a section in SB 12 that protects the fundamental rights of parents to make decisions concerning their child's education. Ana's parents Nancy Jimenez-Mota and Rafael Mota actively supported Ana's participation in the role of Seymour. Them removing Anna from that role contravenes SB 12's own parental rights mandate. And that they've said that the removal casting was a non-textual and overbroad interpretation of SB 12 extending well beyond what it actually prohibits.

0:35:22 Thomas: Yeah Yep. Mm-hmm.

0:35:39 Lydia: And then they go on for, you know, some additional legal analysis and some of the current lawsuits that are happening in the other school districts to kind of, know, draw some comparisons there.

0:35:50 Thomas: Yeah, what are the other ones? Not, is it theater? I know you're not probably covering all that, but like, is it not theater? Is it different stuff that they, okay. Mean if it's actually related to the law, is it like actual trans people stuff or like parental rights to you know?

0:35:56 Lydia: It's not theater, so it's a variety of folks that have joined this lawsuit. It was brought on behalf of the Genders and Sexualities Alliance Network, like students, GSA clubs, Students engaged Advancing in Texas, which is an organization, nonprofit organization. The Texas American Federation of Teachers, teacher, a like specific teacher to students and their parents. And they say that they are directly affected by SB 12 and the prohibitions that are sweeping and overbroad, elimination—they challenge the elimination of safe spaces and inclusive programs, SB 12 violates the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the U.S. Constitution, as well as the Federal Equal Access Act.

0:36:41 Thomas: Oh, so this is like, sounds more general than specific, like violations or occurrences or. Was I guess maybe with the safe spaces or something. But this is, again, the kind of thing that should have been enjoined instantly.

0:36:54 Lydia: If we lived in a normal world.

0:36:56 Thomas: Stupid.

0:36:56 Lydia: They highlight a difference, so the Anamota lawsuit, they highlight a difference from that existing lawsuit. "This case is distinguishable from GSA Network v. Morath in one critical respect. The GSA Network plaintiffs challenge SB 12 on First Amendment and Equal Access Act grounds as applied to identifiably LGBTQ plus related student organizations, speech, and social transitioning. Here, the claim is under Title IX, and the plaintiff is a non-transgender female student who was denied participation in an educational program solely because her biological sex did not match the sex of a fictional character." So, they're trying to say like, like SB 12 is problematic in many ways. This case deserves to stand on its own because of, know, this distinguishable characteristic here.

0:37:32 Thomas: Okay. Yeah, I mean, we don't know these folks, like, you never know if, for all like, we know, they could be conservative or something, so you never know if they're like, hey, I'm not one of those trans people, I'm just trying to play this role. You never know. Probably not, but you know.

0:37:45 Lydia: Yeah, who knows? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then they go on to list the harm that Anamota has experienced, originally they were set to perform in December and time runs out. This is her senior year you know, so if if they can't figure out how to do this production, then she's just completely lost an opportunity to do, like, one of the last shows of her entire high school career, which sucks.

0:38:02 Thomas: Oh, yeah. Totally. Yeah.

0:38:14 Lydia: And she's not the only student that would be impacted by that either you know there's a lot of seniors that are probably participating in the show that are also harmed.

0:38:18 Thomas: Yeah, it's not like it's an easy one-to-one of like like, oh, the cast of Little Shop to Frozen. The plant is the snowman, and guess they're like, Oh, well, you know what? I wonder if it was if they're like, well, you know, since you seem to have two female leads, here's a show with two female on and also, you know, that's

0:38:25 Lydia: No, so do you have to do auditions all over? Yeah. Auditions and callbacks completely over, and like...

0:38:42 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. Exactly. Perfect. Audrey and Seymour become Anna and Elsa.

0:38:47 Thomas: Yep. And then, you know, yeah, one of the whoever the guy is, is, Jonathan Graff. Yeah.

0:38:52 Lydia: Kristoff? Mm-hmm. Like, what sucks, too, is that they're also so vocally different, those two shows. Like, like, to your point, you really can't map over what students have brought to the table for Little Shop to what could they bring to the table for Frozen. They're probably students that were not cast in Little Shop. They're completely different sized casts. I mean, you'd be starting from scratch, honestly. You'd have to just start with auditions.

0:39:15 Thomas: So stupid. Really want to know. The thing I want to know most is how much thought or effort went into that. Just, Like to me, it's so funny to imagine if they're just like, who knows the show Frozen? Oh yeah, just do that. You know, like, I don't know if it's that. I don't know if there was a more detailed process. I don't know if it could have been like, they asked someone to, know, in the school to provide some alternatives or something. But like, I just want to know how that went down.

0:39:43 Lydia: This is also something where it's like they don't perform this for you know it's not eight performances a week for months right

0:39:49 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. It's like, it's like two.

0:39:52 Lydia: It's a single weekend Yeah, it would be December 10th through the 12th, that's it, like three performances, four performances I guess

0:39:53 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a bummer. High school musicals are terrible in that way where it's like you do all this work and then it's like three shows

0:40:00 Lydia: Yeah now you're done all right, strike the set, the lawsuit finishes up this section saying that canceling the production and substituting it with Frozen did not cure the sex-based exclusion. Instead, it denied the entire cast of Little Shop of Horrors and Anna in particular the opportunity to perform the production they had been cast in. And further, canceling the production after they said here is, know, our offer and on a declined the sex-restricted substitute role that they said this is retaliatory conduct and further evidence of sex-based discrimination. Count one, Title IX sex discrimination. Count two, Title IX retaliation. Count three, supremacy clause declaratory relief. So they filed that on October 26th, and simultaneously to filing the lawsuit, they also filed a motion for temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction and a brief to support that as

0:40:06 Thomas: Yeah Yeah Hmm. Put down that snowman outfit. All right.

0:41:03 Lydia: Well. And we got an order pretty quickly on that, but the order was just from the judge that's overseeing this right now. The defendants need to file a response to that motion by November 4th and that the plaintiffs will file a reply brief by November 5th. The court will be setting a hearing on November 6. So they will be making a decision at that point in time regarding the injunction and TRO. When that happened, instead of ruling on the brief itself, you know, and wanting a hearing, then Anamota's counsel, the plaintiff side of this, filed a motion requesting an expedited motion for leave to depose Jordan Thomas, who is the director and the theater teacher. It's the only deposition that they seek at this point in time, that they would limit it to two hours, and that Mr.

0:41:52 Lydia: Thomas has direct knowledge of matters central to the pending requests for preliminary relief, the audition and casting process, the reasons communicated by district administrators for removing Ana, the production status and ability to resume, and that without their ability to talk to him about, you know, the casting process and everything that he talked about with the district administration, it sort of limits their ability to respond substantively.

0:42:00 Thomas: Hmm.

0:42:13 Thomas: So that, oh, they haven't been allowed to talk to Or you're, oh, that was you speculating?

0:42:15 Lydia: I don't think so. Yeah, that's me speculating. Um, which makes sense. I mean, he is an employee,

0:42:19 Thomas: Yeah. Well, he probably, yeah, exactly. I was gonna say at first, I was like, why didn't he file an affidavit along with her lawsuit, but maybe he's not kind of allowed to just because he works for the school kind of thing.

0:42:32 Lydia: Yeah, I could see that very well happen. Um, and I'm sure he's being advised by, his union representation and stuff and trying to do things the right way. I imagine they've probably had side conversations because it like they've, you know, been working together, but yeah.

0:42:44 Thomas: Well, I just, I couldn't imagine he's on the other side of it at all. Right. I mean.

0:42:48 Lydia: No, I looked at his Instagram, he's not. This guy, yeah, he seems like a fun time, so. Yeah, that's where we're at. We don't have decisions yet, but we do have a lawsuit that's starting, which is very exciting. I'm like so proud of her, to not just sit down and take it. Her mom also has been like really vocal about this, which has been super cool. A statement that she shared after the lawsuit was filed the mother, quote, I think there's a time in which we need to stand up for the freedoms granted by the Constitution and for us.

0:43:16 Thomas: Yeah.

0:43:16 Lydia: This was our time to act. These laws are created with ambiguity to keep us afraid and limited and end up being un-American by limiting our freedom of expression. Even though the alternative of inertia is more attractive and safe than the idea of speaking up, freedom was not carved from silence.

0:43:24 Thomas: Yep. Wow, what is she, a civil rights attorney?

0:43:32 Lydia: I know. I was like this is incredible. She's great. I know. I love it. I love it. So, no I don't. Let me see.

0:43:36 Thomas: Yeah, seriously, do you know what she does? Okay, because I was gonna say, I mean, this takes resources as well. I'm sure this probably a well-off family or something, which, whatever.

0:43:43 Lydia: Oh yeah. Licensed Professional Counselor, Master of Education from University of

0:43:49 Thomas: Okay. Cool. It's people who probably have some amount of privilege who need to be the ones the front lines sometimes because it's like this, especially when it's anything legal, as I always come back to, it's so fucking expensive, Not just anyone can do it,

0:44:03 Lydia: Yeah. I know. Yeah, so we're rooting for them and we'll see kind of how this all shakes out, they might give in. Mean, there's other school districts in North Texas reversed their theater decisions in the past after there was some major backlash. Sherman ISD called off Oklahoma in 2023 because a trans teen was cast in one of the leads. People pushed back and they said, fine, whatever.

0:44:19 Thomas: Hmm. Wow.

0:44:28 Lydia: Keller ISD canceled the Laramie Project in 2024. They also reversed course when the public got pissed. So yeah, I don't know. I think some people might think like, know, big deal, it's a school musical, like why do we really care? But I think, like I said, Anamotas, yeah, yeah, yes, I agree. And I, I do think we've talked about this before, that these tend to be the front lines of where the right and the anti-woke like to test out their stuff about control, and they usually can get pretty successful at it if they're able to take over school boards. So this is not an area where you can like let them bully students around you can't do it

0:44:40 Thomas: Yeah, no, that goes the other way. Why do you—why did you stop it? Fucking assholes.

0:45:07 Thomas: And even that might be giving them too much credit. I think they're just dumb. So it's either part of the master plan or they're idiots.

0:45:10 Lydia: Yeah, it could be could Yeah You know what, Nancy's great, the mom. Here's another quote from her. Part of me I say, okay, this is just a high school musical, right? But when I look at this in the greater picture of things in which our rights are being curtailed by ridiculous unconstitutional laws, that's when the fire burns inside of me. I'm not a person that is seeking confrontation. I let little things go. But there comes a point where you have to stand up and say enough of this madness, enough of this intimidation and nonsense.

We need to take our freedoms back and I just don't understand how this is happening. I don't know at what point we became this. I've lived here 33 years in Texas. I've never been bothered by any drag shows, any drag queens. They've not been a problem. And this was back when everybody thought that it was SB 12 from 2023. They have not been a problem. But you know what I have been bothered with? People not having medical insurance. People not having housing. People not having food. So many other things. Guns. Kids getting killed at schools with guns.

0:45:18 Thomas: Yeah.

0:46:04 Lydia: My kids being extremely anxious about getting shot at school. That has been a concern. So I don't understand why we are so focused and intent on meddling with the arts when there are bigger issues happening and you go and waste all of this legislature time on a bill that affects no one. I'm baffled. I'm baffled too, Nancy. Maybe she's running. You should run, Nance? I'd vote for you if I could.

0:46:23 Thomas: Yeah, run for something, run for this board.

0:46:26 Lydia: Yeah, honestly, yeah, that'd be awesome. So yeah, so we're rooting for the school board to cave in, but if not, then we'll, we'll see some activity on this docket and we might have a gabble-gabble crossover on our hands, we'll see.

0:46:36 Thomas: It just sucks that never involves punishing these assholes, you know? It's never like, okay, yeah, you did that and that was fucking stupid. You violated a kid's rights. Go to jail. No, it's just like, oh, we might be able to maybe, maybe get you to stop. That's it. End of consequences.

0:46:40 Lydia: No.

0:46:56 Lydia: I might honestly file some stuff with them too because as I was with Grand Prairie School District because as I was preparing for the story I can't find their board meetings anywhere they're supposed to be available to watch and I cannot find them

0:47:07 Thomas: Huh. Weird. I thought you were going to be, an amicus brief because you played Audrey or whatever.

0:47:13 Lydia: No I did play Audrey, yeah, and that, I don't know if they're hiding the link on their website or what, but something is fishy and I'm gonna probably pursue that on my end on the side, so we'll see, we'll see if they're trying to hide stuff.

0:47:28 Thomas: Right, well, we'll see you all someplace that's green, somewhere that's green.

0:47:32 Lydia: That's

0:47:55 Thomas: Should have hold on does the plant have a penis or vagina oh arrest Mary Martin now