Best of Tom: Family, Wrong or Wrong (DOD58)

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:27 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dan's, the podcast that won't admit when it's wrong, because it never is. I'm Tom Curry.

0:00:28 Thomas: Time. Yeah.

0:00:34 Tom: I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:34 Eli: I feel like we did this episode already, and I think we made it very clear, I am never wrong. Like, as soon as I'm wrong, I'm happy to do this show. I just feel like it's not going to make any sense.

0:00:44 Thomas: Boy. Even that's great intro, Tom, great, great stuff, good, 10 out of 10, because also all

0:00:54 Eli: Me tell you something, I like podcasts, and I hope we do one today.

0:00:56 Thomas: Have the Well, the best intros for Tom are they launch us into a different podcast than we intended to do, and that's so, like, we can blame the victim here and say that Tom is the reason why that happens. But

0:01:00 Tom: Am

0:01:07 Eli: If this podcast has a victim, it's not I feel

0:01:08 Tom: I really the victim, though? Hmm.

0:01:09 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Because Did you guys have those fucking dads? I, that's sort of another trope, the, which is like, well, they're never wrong, oh, you know, my wife, she's never, all the only two words I say is you're right, and that's, you know, like, that those kind of fucking memes, like, it's, I don't know, it just reminded me of that, and did we do an episode out on that? Are you saying we already did that? Uh, okay

0:01:13 Tom: Did

0:01:33 Eli: Like, we did, definitely did, like, a yes dear, always have to agree with your wife episode. I don't I don't know if we've done an episode about like dads who never admit when they're wrong, because that's a serious problem too.

0:01:37 Tom: We I don't remember doing that, but

0:01:37 Thomas: Yeah. Me neither, okay. Two votes for Sure, well, on some level there's like, in a societal endorsement of it a little bit, where it's like, yeah, they never admit they're wrong, you know, you just have to work around the fact that, like, and it's like, you mean that's psychotic, that that's like completely, completely psychotic.

0:01:47 Eli: Yes.

0:02:01 Tom: Isn't wait a minute, Eli, isn't that sort of part and parcel of the do it because I said so philosophy that you espoused?

0:02:01 Eli: Yeah

0:02:06 Thomas: Oh, here we go.

0:02:08 Eli: No, I mean, so here's the thing, here's how I feel about do it because I said so. Do it because, my dad did not do that, right? My dad was willing to discuss everything, and one of the things that I admired about him most as a parent was that, like, no matter how dumb my opinion, and trust me, I have had some truly magically stupid opinions through the years, like, we would talk it through. He was, uh, you know, open to whatever I had to say, like, no matter how bad my idea was, no matter how wrong I was, he wanted to break it down. I don't want to say Socratically, because now when people say that, I always associate that with, like, a pompous guy who knows he's right, doing, like, a bullshit Q&A with you to lead you to his fucking answer, which sucks, it just sucks, you can taste it in the air like a fart, and you're just, them yeah

0:02:34 Tom: Oh, my God, I know,

0:02:49 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it does. The only thing Socratic method means now, in today's world, on the internet, is a racist trying to ask you a series of obviously bad faith questions that don't even work. And they're like, yeah, I use the Socratic method. Like, no, you're just an asshole.

0:03:12 Eli: Exactly our our 2016 Twitter notifications has become, which I feel like Socrates would be bummed about particularly, but he would definitely drink poison if he read my Twitter mentions, so, you know, it depends on, uh, depends on how you feel. But like, no, dad was really good about that, and I don't know, I guess my worry is, because, were, okay. Okay, correct me here. I worry that sometimes my dad respected my opinions so much that I did not grow the proper gravitas for authority, and that let me believe wrong things for longer than I should

0:03:16 Thomas: Yeah Tom Tom. We need to be very careful here and how we react. Oh, uh, hmm, that's, that's, that's, you know, you should explore that, Eli, that's, uh, no, good thought, that's, uh, Yeah, I think there's something there, I think maybe it's like a guy who's drinking, drinking 47 beers a night being like, yeah, I think I might have a problem.

0:03:58 Tom: I don't

0:04:07 Eli: Have. You know I'm saying? You know what I'm saying?

0:04:15 Thomas: I, I don't is this right?

0:04:14 Tom: It's possible. Uh, I don't want to go

0:04:16 Thomas: I might Well,

0:04:16 Tom: Too far here. Just something to think about, maybe mull it over in the old brain pan kind of a thing.

0:04:23 Thomas: I think, I think what's funny is we had that like, do it, or I said so conversation, my recollection of that, correct me if I'm wrong, uh, dads, was, Eli was just wrong about his own opinion. Like, he thought he had that opinion, and then by the time we, we told him, like, yeah, but your dad gave you reasons, and we give our kids reasons, and you give your kid reasons, but then still, that's how I remember that going, well,

0:04:43 Eli: Yeah that's how I also recall it and therefore I choose to ignore it. That's not how I remember it, Tom doesn't speak to his exes.

0:04:44 Tom: That's because that's literally how that went, yeah,

0:04:52 Eli: Let's just really dig in on that one, let's not get distracted from what we're here to talk about today. The

0:04:51 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, good, well,

0:04:54 Tom: Hey my Crazy beliefs and attitudes get a lot of traction online, I will just say like

0:05:01 Thomas: Yeah,

0:05:01 Eli: True. Is true, those, honestly, Tom has a terrible hot take, make great for downloads, and we should consider that as a business model.

0:05:09 Tom: Yeah, well,

0:05:08 Thomas: I wanted to do a little bit of a follow-up from the fight one, because at the end of it, I think we sort of broached a really fascinating subtopic of it, which is this whole like "my family, right or wrong" ethos or whatever, which I feel like I can't wait to do the usual three bears shtick here, although it might just be like two bears and a fucking uh no a me, like, of just a garbage, two bears and a fucking raccoon is what it'll be, and I'll be, be the raccoon, because my, it's so funny, I, I would see other families, you know, doing the like, my side right or wrong kind of thing, or if their kid did anything, it didn't matter, like, you know, back in school, back in, uh, grade school, where, like, a kid would get in trouble, you know, would do just be shitty, like, they'd fucking break a window and, do, it's obviously they're in the wrong, and then they'd have a parent who would come in and yell at the teacher, and for me, consider

0:05:31 Tom: And then Eli

0:05:32 Eli: Raccoon

0:06:02 Thomas: Me get why. Why don't you guys just guess what I had? My version of that was like my, my family wrong or wrong. Like, there's no, my, the answer for my dad was whatever we did was wrong. He didn't want to hear the story. It was just like we were already started in the wrong, no matter what. And so it was fucking mind boggling to see those parents who would come in, and they're yelling at the teacher, like as if the teacher was the wrong one in the, you know, in the, the conflict with the nine-year-old that, like, took a shit in class, they're like, I bet the teacher is wrong in this situation.

0:06:07 Tom: Well Well,

0:06:36 Thomas: You know, it's, I blew my mind, but I don't know, I sort of wonder if there isn't a certain amount of that sort of like, uh, Eli's realization a minute ago, I'm wondering if maybe I need a certain amount of that, do you, do my kids need a certain amount of feeling like I have their back no matter what, but I can't go 100, I just can't Yeah.

0:06:33 Tom: Not

0:06:35 Eli: Oh I

0:06:57 Thomas: I can't do that.

0:06:55 Tom: No matter what. Never no matter what.

0:06:58 Thomas: I agree, okay. Okay. Thank you, Tom.

0:06:59 Tom: Yeah, dude, I'm right there with you, When man. I moved in with my dad, and again, this is going to sound more insane than I think it was. Because again, my dad was a single dad in the early 1980s, right? And that's a tough position, I think, that I'm very sympathetic to. Like there were not a lot of, there were not a lot of single dads in 1984 in that I literally never met any in the 1980s. So my dad was a single dad in the 1980s. And in 1984, I moved in with my dad. And one of the things that he said when we moved into him was, listen, whatever trouble you get into at school, it's double when you get home. Him.

0:06:59 Eli: I

0:07:34 Thomas: Yeah.

0:07:35 Tom: That was one of the very first things that I heard. My dad, when we first moved in with him, I'm in first grade, middle of first grade. So I'm like six and a half, seven years old. And there were two things that stood out in my mind that he said, like our first, like getting to know you as time when we moved in with him, you know, because we didn't, my dad lived in an entirely different state. It's not like we didn't know him, but like we didn't live with him ever in our, in our lives at that point. As Um, he said, I'm not a short order cook. I make dinner. If you eat it great. Great. If you don't eat it also great, but I'm not making two dinners and trouble you get into at school, it's double when you get home.

0:08:10 Thomas: Now start tiling putting this bathroom kid.

0:08:13 Eli: Well, it's because he knocked a tile out of the floor at school, and so, so yeah, you know, man of his word.

0:08:16 Tom: Yeah, so I, I never, I'm, I'm right there with you, Thomas, like to some degree, it never occurred to me. And I think my dad, in actuality, as we, we lived with him, he did have a much more nuanced stance on that, but I think he laid down a lot of like really binary rules in the beginning, because, like, you know, he's got to have a low tolerance for shit because he's a single parent, and there's just there's there's very limited amount of energy and time that you can spend, yeah, right, like, he's gone from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m. every day, that was his work schedule.

0:08:38 Thomas: Yeah. She doesn't have time. Yeah. Yeah. Time really is the limiting factor in a lot of parenting. Like I really do understand. I really do get that. Yeah. Cause like I, my kids are fighting all the time. As I've, as I mentioned, they're just fighting each other constantly. And like, sometimes I'll be like, okay, let's fucking, you write an affidavit of your side and I'll fucking, we'll do a deposition and, and then other times I'm just like, look, whatever this is, just no, you're just, I can't, I just, whatever is happening right now, I'm busy. I'm working on whatever we're making dinner, something. There's times where you're just like, just, just, just no.

0:08:48 Tom: Yep.

0:08:53 Eli: And money, man, time and money.

0:09:23 Eli: It does. It makes you exceptionally sympathetic to the bad parenting technique of, well, now nobody gets to blank, right? Because look again, that's bad and you shouldn't do it. But the urge when they're like, I want this on the TV, I want this on the TV for You to just be like, I'm going to shoot the TV. I shot the TV. So now this particular moment I'm in hell is over so

0:09:31 Tom: Yep.

0:09:43 Tom: Is

0:09:30 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, it sucks. I always hated that as a kid. I hated when there was clearly something where there are two sides to it. And one side I thought was right. Once I thought it was wrong. And then the, whatever the authority figure was like, I don't fucking care. Just stop. Stop. You're making, you matter so much.

0:10:03 Eli: Because it matters so much to you in

0:10:05 Thomas: The most important thing in the world. It's like, you're fucking, it's like, yeah, but we're talking about my version of the Armenian Armenian genocide. We don't just say like, you know, call it, we'll call it 50, 50. Come on. You know, like as a kid and it's, it really is nothing. But when, when you're a maxed adult, what's happening is just like, well, there's noise happening. And I can't like, that's, you're just fucking max. You're like, ah, and I know it too, that the worst thing is I absolutely still feel that, you know, like I said, I'm not doing it. I'm not oblivious to it. Maybe my parents weren't either. I don't know. But like, I know they probably were pretty, they didn't give a shit. They were perfectly happy being like, if there's noise, fuck these kids, stop the noise, don't care. But

0:10:05 Eli: That moment Right. Yeah.

0:10:44 Thomas: I feel bad. Oh, but speaking of noise, real quick, um, what's the worst possible noise in a podcast, Eli? I'm just wondering if you could tell us. No. No, the uh,

0:10:48 Eli: Is My cricket back. Oh, god. Oh, god. My cricket's back. Oh, hey, oh my god, I have such a good auto ad story for you guys. So ever since I started talking shit about auto ads, I have gotten one auto ad and one auto ad alone, and that is for Saint Jude's Children Hospital. I get it at every ad break, sometimes multiple times per ad break. I used to have cancer, but now I dominate on the soccer field. That's it. Every single

0:10:57 Tom: It the cricket oh,

0:10:58 Thomas: No, the auto ads. Oh,

0:11:27 Tom: Now I dominate on

0:11:27 Thomas: No way

0:11:28 Tom: The soccer field

0:11:28 Thomas: Is that really the ad

0:11:29 Eli: And Yep, that is the end. It is for the Saint Jude's Children Hospital, and that is the only one I get ever, and it is always preceded, when I'm listening, by like these fucking auto ads, man, I hate them so so much. You help children like I die in terrible agony. Fight against God's will. So I, my new revised position is fuck all auto ads, except the ones that focus on children's cancer.

0:11:50 Tom: Fight against God's will.

0:12:01 Thomas: I love that that is a perfect prank by either me or the ad company. Be like, oh, you're gonna talk shit about ads, you're gonna talk shit about children's cancer, baby, fuck you talk shit about this ad, Eli.

0:12:09 Eli: Children's cancer.

0:12:11 Tom: So what the fuck is, wait a minute, what is Saint Jude's advertising, are they advertising like, like, for cancer? Like, is it like a pro-cancer?

0:12:15 Thomas: Probably

0:12:18 Eli: No. Mommy

0:12:18 Thomas: Against cancers, if I had to guess, but donate

0:12:21 Eli: Told

0:12:20 Tom: What am I supposed to do with that ad? Donate?

0:12:21 Eli: Me to get near the So

0:12:24 Thomas: Any money to the hospital? Yeah.

0:12:25 Eli: You're supposed to donate money to the hospital, but also there's like a... Look, most of these hospitals, they're just going to let your kid die. But over at St. Jude's, we're in it to fucking win it. And can I say, honestly, from my heart, I believe them. I believe that most hospitals are like, I don't know, liver too small, not worth it.

0:12:38 Thomas: Yeah.

0:12:46 Eli: Have some aspirin.

0:12:47 Thomas: It's funny doing the like shitty brand X, like the those ads, but for children's cancer, you know, like you show the black and white footage of the other hospital and you're trying to open the door as a parent and you fall over. Does this ever happen to you? You know, thing.

0:12:54 Eli: Yes. Yes. So

0:13:03 Tom: Chemotherapy, set it, and forget it.

0:13:05 Eli: I've mentioned this before, but my cousin was, um, head of fertility over at Cleveland Clinic for years, um, she's super duper smart lady, and she would have clients come in and be like, well, we knew we had to get this done at Cleveland Clinic, and it's like, dude, this isn't fucking Bumble and Bumble, it's not a haircut. And yet it kind of is, it's terrifying. Like, there's a bad, bad hospital that we live closer to the bad hospital than we do to the good hospital. So if I'm ever in an ambulance situation, they can refuse to take me to the good hospital.

0:13:38 Thomas: Well, If you don't want to be guilted into donating to children's cancer research or whatever, make sure instead to donate to us at patreon.com slash your old dads

0:13:48 Eli: Dear

0:13:47 Tom: And you can help Eli afford the good hospital. Did you ever talk... Now, Eli, this wouldn't have happened for you, because I don't think he grew up with a sibling that was contemporaneous in age but like Thomas did you ever did

0:13:48 Eli: Old Dads, Yep. That is true and I've solved the problem as a parent as well It's really fantastic, guys. Can't recommend having one kid enough.

0:14:06 Thomas: Yeah.

0:14:10 Tom: You ever get in trouble for something your brother or sister did

0:14:13 Thomas: Hmm, yeah, I mean, there were times when it was just like, well, for me it was like, there were times when if my dad was mad, it was like the whole house was just miserable, so it didn't fucking, didn't really matter who was in trouble, it was just like, fuck, this just sucks, it's just sucks. Here

0:14:27 Tom: That, yeah, that's I remember sometimes like something would get fucked up, like I don't even remember any space, like somebody would like, you know, eat the fucking cookies you weren't supposed to eat, or break something, or you know, do some kid shit, like whatever the fucking kid shit was, and then no, neither my brother or I would admit to having done whatever the thing is, and then my dad would just be like, I gotta punish both of you guys, now you're both, because he wouldn't be like, nobody gets punished, because I couldn't find the guilty party, he'd be like, all right, well, the only solution then is everybody eats shit, and then, you know, you'd be like, and then, like, when I knew it wasn't me, it made me crazy, because I'd be like, like, my brother won't blink, but like, Like, my brother won't blink. Like, my brother, there is something as stone cold as you can possibly imagine about my brother, Bob. Like, he'll be like, my dad could be like, all

0:14:45 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh I could Probably

0:15:16 Tom: Right, look, here's the thing. We're setting, you guys are both getting set on fire at 3 o'clock unless one of you admits to it. My brother would be like, he would look me right in my eye and be like, it's going to be a hot one. And that would be it. That would be it. Like, we would be on fire and he'd be like, I need those fucking cookies, man. I did not. And he would have, they would have done it. He would have, every time I caved, I caved. I'd be like, oh, it was me. It was me. It was me. But my brother, absolutely not. I ate so much shit because of my brother.

0:15:17 Thomas: Imagine Yeah. Jeez.

0:15:50 Thomas: I'm Just realizing how much of, I think mine and certainly Tom's childhood was basically Squid Games, like it was just, you realize like, oh, you don't have to put up with psychological torment quite so much anymore. There's all these situations where you're like, well, if he says he didn't do it and you're just like, fuck, it was like prison, god. There's all the... Yeah, exactly.

0:15:57 Eli: Yeah. Yeah. It's the Stanford Prison Experiment. But your dad was the warden and nobody eventually let you guys out I

0:16:19 Thomas: It's good to be out.

0:16:19 Tom: I think, like, I don't know what I would do if I were my dad in that same spot. I really don't know what I would do. Because I, I'm lucky, my kids are the worst liars ever. So like Donovan, sometimes he'll be like, I'll like, dude, did you do this thing? And he'll be like, no, I'll like, really? Yeah, I did it. That's all it takes. He breaks under that amount of pressure. If the cops ever picked him up, they'd like bring him into the interrogation room, and there'd like, that camera in the corner, and they'd like, so, and he'd like, I did it, 100%, I did it, I did it.

0:16:24 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

0:16:45 Tom: That was me I'll draw you a picture like whatever it takes, like, they, so it's super easy, I've not, not had to parent my way out of that. But like, also, I have this thing, Thomas, I don't know if you had the same thing, where I hate, and I still hate when there's just that like shitty emotional vibe, tension in the house.

0:16:45 Eli: Stabbed that guy yep oh

0:17:02 Tom: Like It makes me I

0:17:02 Thomas: Oh, God, no.

0:17:02 Eli: God you hate it, it's the worst first

0:17:04 Thomas: Worst.

0:17:05 Tom: Cannot live in that space, I can't it makes me so crazy

0:17:05 Eli: Oh

0:17:05 Thomas: Worst. I'm glad you say that Tom, I'm glad you say that, that's the healthy response and I think I feel the same way, and I know not everybody who was kind of raised in my circumstances feels quite that same way, but that's the way to be, don't fucking create that shit, I'm so glad to hear you say that, because for

0:17:10 Tom: Yeah

0:17:25 Eli: God, there are some people, and that are just like, well, no, when you're upset, the vibes just suck until I feel better, and you're like no, no, anything but this anything but this weird terror, and it's especially bad if they're like, well, I actually don't want to talk about it right now, and you're like, oh, so we're just gonna, we're just gonna do this, we're just gonna have like this shitty weight

0:17:32 Thomas: Everybody yeah just

0:17:35 Tom: Yeah

0:17:44 Thomas: Forever yeah this

0:17:45 Tom: We're just gonna have this shitty awful fucking, but my dad said similar to what you said, Tom, it's like my dad, it's like this happened a lot, my brother figured out how to work this, because my brother is like a soulless automaton, I don't know what the fuck is wrong with that kid, I mean, I love him, I guess, vaguely, but like my

0:18:01 Thomas: Is a new chapter of horror that we're getting to learn about in Tom's childhood. Yeah. My brother would sometimes make people float with his mind and, you know, just dismantle their body. You know, it just happened.

0:18:03 Eli: Yeah I'm gonna

0:18:05 Tom: But like you've seen stranger things it's kind of like that

0:18:13 Thomas: Boy, we'd be tiling a bunch of the whole house was tiled after that. Those murders.

0:18:18 Tom: Well, I would always like, my dad would give us both chores, like we said before, like we'd have like, especially in the summertime, to keep us busy while he was working and we were home unsupervised for eight hours a day, 12 hours a day, six to six, so we'd have like these chores and like, what have you. And my brother figured out, at some age, I don't remember, maybe sixth, seventh, eighth grade, somewhere around there, that if he didn't do the chore, his chore, and I hated my dad coming home being pissed because Bob didn't do his job, dad wouldn't be mad at me. He didn't take it out on me, but I hated the vibe in the house, I hated the tension, I hated just the way the house felt, I hated like just the whole thing, right, so I'd do his fucking chore, I'd be like, I'm just gonna do it, and so my brother like fairly quickly figured that out, and like, we would have these like fucking fights about it, like these like, and they would sometimes devolve into fights, like fighting each other, because we're like teenagers

0:18:46 Thomas: Oh God. Oh, sounded like you didn't have any other option. You were in, you were in a prisoner's dilemma with a psychopath. You're like, fuck, I can't, I win. I lose every time. He just says, yeah, sure. Burn the prison to ground. I don't fucking Care. Don't Give a shit.

0:19:08 Tom: Yeah he didn't care he yeah he seriously did not blink he never blinked on that shit I did that motherfucker's chores for like years.

0:19:18 Thomas: Yeah. He

0:19:18 Eli: Be pushing the button no you don't it's not how it works I

0:19:23 Thomas: But is he a hardcore, is he a really good poker player?

0:19:27 Tom: He could be, he absolutely could be

0:19:28 Thomas: Yeah All in, you don't even have any cards, I said all in, you literally, there's you haven't been all

0:19:33 Eli: Said all in this is a roulette wheel sir you just bet the amount that you want now

0:19:36 Thomas: In I thought you're right okay I fold, fuck, god damn it, Thomas, brother, okay, yeah, I have cards, cards you don't, but I fucking, I'm scared, so yeah, I fold.

0:19:45 Eli: Can I say, because I had a cousin like that, not a, not a sibling obviously, but I had a cousin like that, life turns around and beats the shit out of those people, and it has been, I don't know if this is true, your brother, it has been delicious to watch, the minute this dude tried it in the real world, he was like, I'm a sociopath, everyone was like, oh, you're a sociopath, you can't work at this Jiffy Lube anymore, and he was like, oh, what but mommy didn't catch me, he, this is the story, I, I might get in trouble for telling this, but I actually don't care about this person in any way, shape, or form.

He was stealing from his job. And, like, they caught him, but they didn't have proof. They didn't have it on the cameras. And he was like, you don't have me on the cameras. And they were like, yeah, man, you're still fucking fired. And I remember his mind was, he was like, but you don't have cameras. And the guy was like, dude, this is a fucking, like, it was literally an automobile parts store. He was like, this is a fucking automobile parts store, you're just fired because I don't like you, I don't like your fucking face, go

0:20:13 Thomas: Oh wow

0:20:54 Eli: Away

0:20:55 Tom: Yeah

0:20:54 Thomas: Does He think like, I get due process at the Jiffy Lube though, like you can't

0:21:00 Eli: He was like, your honor, I object, and he was like, who are, are you talking to, man, you fucking suck

0:21:06 Tom: Yeah there's there's no adjudication you dumb ass, like, that, my brother, that's actually a good point, because like, I, I probably shouldn't tell this on air, but I don't care, like, I fired my brother more than once, so like, my brother has worked for me, yeah, because like, nobody, I will also say nobody makes, because that attitude makes me fucking crazy right that attitude of just this sort of like passive aggressive aggression makes me fucking insane, it just, it goes right under my fucking fingernails. I can't stand it. But my brother kind of struggled for a long time to find his footing in terms of work and what have you.

And so a couple of times, I hired my brother to work for the company that I worked for when I was a manager there. And when I was managing this title company, I hired him to be a closer. And he would go out, and these guys got paid for every transaction that they signed. It wasn't a commission because they weren't selling anything, but that's just how the payment was structured, right? So they, if they did five closings, they got, I don't know, 500 bucks, whatever it was, but if they fucked something up, meaning they like missed the signature or made a mistake on, and they were also responsible for going out and fixing it, right? So like if

0:21:07 Eli: Yeah right

0:21:10 Thomas: Oh geez wow oh yeah for sure yeah

0:22:16 Tom: There's a hundred pages of documents and you miss one of them, that loan is not going to fund until you go get that other signature. So.

0:22:22 Eli: Yeah.

0:22:22 Thomas: This is not important, but what is the difference between a closer and a notary?

0:22:26 Tom: A closer has to be a notary to do their job. But a notary is just.

0:22:29 Thomas: Okay. So this is so that, yeah, because I don't think I've ever, I'm familiar with a closer, but I always have a notary come out whenever we've refinanced or whatever. So is it that

0:22:36 Tom: Yeah, that person is their job title is closer. Yeah.

0:22:36 Thomas: Okay. Okay. Okay, thank you, appreciate it.

0:22:40 Tom: Yeah. Yeah. Same same difference. It's Right. Just it's a little more behind the scenes other than just the signing that you don't see like that their job would entail typically.

0:22:45 Thomas: Gotcha. Okay.

0:22:47 Tom: But so anyway, so that was my brother's job, right? So but like I said, if you miss a signature, he's got to go and fix it because there's nobody else to go and fix it. It, you got paid for it, but it was inconvenient, he'd just be like, I'm just not going to do it, just don't pay me for that one. And I'd be like, dude, that's not how it works.

0:23:01 Eli: Mm-hmm. Yep.

0:23:02 Thomas: They just won't get a house, cool, but there's

0:23:04 Tom: He's like Yeah. He would just he would just be like, oh, I'm not going to go out, I'm just, and I was like, well, if you don't go out and fix your mistake, it's not just that I'm not going to pay you for one deal, I'm firing you. And then he would, because I don't need you to work here if you're bad at your job and won't fix your errors and he's just like, he didn't, but my brother doesn't blink, so he's like, I'm not going, and I'm like you're not working here anymore, you're fired. And he didn't believe me, came to work the next day.

0:23:06 Eli: Yep.

0:23:17 Thomas: No. Cameras oh there's no cameras

0:23:20 Eli: Tom.

0:23:32 Eli: Yeah.

0:23:32 Tom: And I was like, I don't know what part of you're fired you didn't catch from when I said you're fired, but you don't work here. And I've done it twice.

0:23:25 Thomas: Yeah. Oh god oh

0:23:38 Tom: I've fired that guy twice in his life.

0:23:32 Eli: And then and

0:23:39 Thomas: My God. Twice? Okay. I think the old saying applies, first one shame on him for real, second one shame on you, like for like like I, that's it, saying normally doesn't apply, but like

0:23:45 Eli: Oh.

0:23:48 Tom: It's hard not to help family though, it is, I will admit, it's hard not to help family.

0:23:52 Eli: Tom.

0:23:50 Thomas: Really oh it's easy for me, Jesus.

0:23:54 Tom: Yeah.

0:23:54 Eli: Tom, you and I, I'm afraid to tell you that you and I are the same person right now. Because when we're not the same person anymore you'll, don't forget my name and walk away from me. But we, this has happened to me so many times with friends. Cause I, again, I was a manager at a retail store, a retail toy store where there was no requirement to enter entry. And I cannot tell you, I've dozens of friends who are still my friends who would be like, I'm going through a really tough time, man. Do you have any shifts you could give me? And I'd be like, absolutely buddy. Let me rearrange the schedule of this retail business that I'm running so that you can have a shift. And then they would leave at lunch and be like, I don't know, man, not for me. And I'd be like, I'm gonna murder you, gonna

0:23:59 Tom: Yeah. Man.

0:24:01 Thomas: Oh. Wow.

0:24:40 Eli: Murder you, yep.

0:24:42 Thomas: It's incredible.

0:24:42 Eli: And then with it without irony, two months later they'll be like, you know, money's been a little tight, lady, and I'll, like, oh.

0:24:42 Tom: I have had so many yeah, yep.

0:24:52 Tom: Yeah, I do I, I don't do it anymore. When I was young, in the in the sort of like managerial role, I'd hire family, etc. Now I just don't give a fuck, like it's like, oh yeah, you got a position of authority, like yeah, you should, uh, you should you get one too, it's great.

0:24:54 Thomas: Yep you

0:25:06 Eli: Yep

0:25:07 Thomas: Know this is fascinating because I don't, I won't speak for Eli, I don't, I don't think this is what's going on there, but for for Tom and your dynamic, I think there's a lot there that's kind of of in common, not, not identical, but in common with me. And I think for me being raised with kind of a tyrant as a dad, I, I think it does kind of force these personality things. Like there've been times when my younger sister, um, or like anyone in my family or kind of me, but sorta, um, have, have needed something from other siblings.

And for me, I've never needed, you know, I've never been broke or anything, but, but like, you know, a little bit of help here and there, I've been like, oh, it'd be cool if we did this, or maybe it's like, hey, this would be a good idea if maybe if we all pulled in money to something. And like the minute that comes up, it turns into just hell. And it's like this weird pride or something that where for some reason, none of my siblings, and I think it's because of maybe my dad, possibly being raised with that environment, they cannot be dependent on anyone at all, like they cannot be dependent.

And because to bar, like, like my little sister, she's doing fine now, but like she was the last one to kind of figure out life of us, I mean, she is the youngest in fairness, but still, it was like kind of late, you know, she just didn't have a great job, she's never had any money at all, and you know, my brother tried to help her, I would offer to help her, and it's just hell, like it just doesn't, it can't work. It's like we each have this feeling of kind of, go it alone, like we'd rather be fucking on the street than dependent on another sibling, like literally, and I don't know why that is.

0:25:07 Tom: Yeah I have a similar sort of sense in that, it was actually funny, like, I, like I think you'll appreciate this, we were watching, Hayley and I were watching some show yesterday, we're watching a rerun of like some sitcom, I can't remember what it was, yesterday, and some character in it gets fired from their job and doesn't, like it's that shtick where you get fired and you don't, like, tell your family that you got fired. And you wake up every morning and go to work, and you know, like you're not really working, and you just don't want to tell, you and Hayley is like, that would be a hundred percent you, you just would never, she's like, you just, if anything bad happens, she's just not going to tell me. And I was like, that's outrageous, like I would tell you once I fix the problem, you know, like that

0:27:03 Thomas: Yeah

0:27:21 Eli: That's what I was gonna say, the difference is that you would just go and be a fry cook at McDonald's without telling her until you somehow owned that McDonald's

0:27:28 Thomas: You you would work enough shifts to make like a CEO's wage, you're like, Tom, there's not that many hours. I don't know, man, I figured it out, I'm Uber driving in between preparing orders at the drive-thru. It works out. Yeah, I guess, it's sort of related to the toxic independence thing a little bit, but it's, but it's, it sucks because I have really tried in my life. I can't speak for any of my other siblings, although I will strongly suggest they have not tried to do as much work on themselves as I have, but I'm not sure of that. I've really tried to buck these trends and just. And if somebody needs money or somebody does something, I'm not going to be shitty about it. I'm just like, here, free money. Literally don't care. Literally don't. Just don't even fuck. But they still treat it like it's strings, or they treat it like it's, you know, oh, you just want to have one over on me. It's like, dude, I don't fucking, I don't care. I really don't. But people can't get out of this pattern. You know, you establish these dynamics as fucking

0:27:37 Eli: I think you know yeah

0:28:25 Thomas: 10-year-olds and then that's your whole life, isn't it? It's crazy. Crazy, guess, Eli, you don't have that the like sibling, uh, experience.

0:28:31 Eli: Opposite. I was, I was literally gonna say, this past week, um, my sister's going through a little bit of a tough spot and she texted me. She was like, hey, can I like come hang at your house? Because, and but the subtext is like, you guys spoil me rotten and I, I could use some like, like unconditional love right now. And sure enough, she, like, came. We got her all her favorite foods. But the best example of me being the opposite of this is that when she brought her car back, the inspection was four months out of date, it needed an oil change, and it had no gas.

0:28:32 Thomas: Yeah.

0:28:59 Tom: Yeah.

0:28:59 Eli: And she was just, she just like gently waved towards the car, and I was like, yeah, I'll go take right, and she just got back in it and she was like, yay, car is not bad things anymore.

0:29:14 Thomas: I think that's a little different, though, when it's somebody who's much younger and you didn't, there's something about being raised around the same space, you're occupying the same space and attention from your parents or from, you know, there's something about that rivalry a little bit, uh, they even have a word for it, I think, a term for it, um, and it just, it's a, a little different than like when the age, when the age gap is bigger, I don't think it kicks in quite as much. I'd be, I would be curious in the alternate universe where Eli has a sibling around his age. I really would be curious what that would be like. You probably would have killed him.

0:29:18 Tom: Yeah.

0:29:27 Tom: I would too I

0:29:47 Eli: I was gonna say, it doesn't sound fun. I don't like the idea of sharing attention.

0:29:47 Tom: Yeah. Because

0:29:49 Thomas: Yeah, no, it's not. Well, I was, you know, I was going to make a joke earlier when we talked about the solving the, my kid right or wrong problem by only having one kid. It's good, Eli. Cause if you had, imagine if you had two, it's the unstoppable force meets immovable object of your heart you'd be like, but you say that he's wrong and he says that you're wrong, but you can't, neither, yeah, and then you do the like 60s robot meltdown thing

0:30:04 Eli: Exactly, yeah yeah I was gonna say this, and I'm not, I'm not kidding, the closest I have to that is sometimes when Madge and Max fight over blueberries, I'm like, all right, kid, you were, we're holding it a little bit low, and she's a dog like that. And I feel that, I feel that's a real conflict in my life. So, yeah, same Z's.

0:30:30 Tom: I'll this just occurred to me, Thomas, when you were talking about like borrowing money or whatever from family, I, I have put my hand out and borrowed money before, from, in 2008, when, cause I was in, I'm in real estate. So in 2008, when the housing market crashed, my income crashed. And so, and it was, it was very, very sudden and obviously unexposed, like overnight, for everybody. Like, it was just bad times. So, little, I got myself in a little bit of financial trouble in terms of debt that I had that I was struggling with.

0:30:55 Thomas: Man, if only that Big Short movie had come out before then, you know, because then it would have, yeah, like people would have seen it coming. Why, why didn't they fucking do that movie earlier, man?

0:30:56 Tom: Would have solved a lot of problems for us. God damn it. Dumb,

0:31:02 Eli: Yeah.

0:31:05 Thomas: It would, uh,

0:31:05 Tom: Dumb, dumb. You know, it's crazy, though, like, is it is that like if you were in the business, you did see it coming. You just couldn't do anything about it except for try to Get out of business, which I couldn't do. But like I would tell Cecil, like I told Cecil on air, like that this is all going to fall apart. But um, anyway, like it, 2008 happened. My income took a shit, I had a bunch of debts, and to their credit, but I think this is a funny aside, dad and Lynn did bail me out in the sense that they loaned me money, but they made me sign a promissory note for it. So they came over and they had drawn up a, like a legit promissory note. It wasn't like a napkin thing. This was a promissory, a note with like monthly payments and default conditions, and like, and I was, and you know, I, I look at that and I'm like, that's kind of a lot, but it wasn't a small amount of money and I respected it

0:31:12 Thomas: Uh, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. You

0:31:31 Eli: His acquaintance. Yeah.

0:31:54 Thomas: Do, you actually do need to do that. That, that actually is smart for one for tax reasons. You're actually, you have to, cause you have to charge interest. Otherwise it, the IRS assumes you did. And then they fucking, then you don't know what, tax you're paying on it because they assumed a tax rate anyway, but also like, fuck man, they get, everybody gives gives you that advice. Like, Hey, if it's with family, I know it sounds weird, but you should just draw it up. And then every time I feel like most people are like, yeah, but I'm not going to do that. It's fucking family. And then it's like, nope, that sucked. That situation got blown.

0:31:56 Tom: And Yeah. Yeah.

0:32:24 Eli: No,

0:32:24 Tom: Unless that money's a gift, I don't think that's unwise like I don't think that's unwise

0:32:28 Eli: Yeah,

0:32:26 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. But that's why my, my mindset is I just decide that money doesn't exist anymore. I'm like, yeah, fine. It is a gift or it isn't whatever, like if pay me or not, that's the only Those are the two options. Drop an entire fucking contract or in your mind, if you're the lender, just assume the money doesn't exist anymore because otherwise you're fucked. Like, yeah,

0:32:28 Tom: Yeah. Yeah.

0:32:33 Eli: Yep. Yep. Yeah. No, more important. I'll go even further because I have the same philosophy. Assume that this person is an elaborate con man who has only been after this money and will disappear from your life the second afterwards. That way you're not disappointed. I cannot tell good, good friends, people I really care about, who have borrowed thousands of dollars from me and never paid it back, right? Not not even like the idea of paying it back. One, one friend who is, is not particularly close anymore but would probably think of me as a friend, bought a motorcycle with that loan, just purchased a motor, borrowed, um, this was back when I was working at the toy store, borrowed like two grand from me and then a week later bought a motorcycle.

0:33:13 Tom: Bought

0:33:13 Thomas: Geez,

0:33:24 Tom: A motorcycle with it, Jesus.

0:33:35 Tom: Christ. I

0:33:35 Thomas: That's that's a lot of money for a toy store. Eli, Jesus.

0:33:39 Eli: I don't know how to explain this in, in humble ways, I was literally the greatest toy salesman on the planet earth when I was in my prime.

0:33:47 Thomas: Awesome.

0:33:48 Eli: The amount of, yes.

0:33:46 Tom: Was this a commissioned gig, were you getting commission on every yo-yo?

0:33:51 Eli: It was a commission, it was a commission gig. I was getting a commission on every on every pair of fake thumbs and I will never make more money than I made as a commission employee when I was selling toys, not once.

0:33:53 Thomas: They paid him in slinkies. So you got one slinky per,

0:33:54 Tom: It's all monopoly money

0:34:02 Thomas: And I, every time you've told me, I've heard this before. And every time you say that you sold fake thumbs, I think that's a joke, like placeholder for what you did, you know? Cause there's no way that's a real thing.

0:34:15 Eli: That is what it was. Fake thumbs, with little lights in them, you squeeze them, they light up and it makes it looks like

0:34:20 Thomas: It should be part of one of those sayings about how you're a good salesman. Like I sold a pair of fake thumbs to a guy who had thumbs. That's how good I, I sold water to the, no, what is one of those ones? I can't remember there's always a they're probably racist actually by now yeah yeah I was trying to go to one that wasn't racially problematic and I could not

0:34:30 Tom: Ice cubes Eskimos, right? Oh no you can't say that, yeah. Fuck

0:34:26 Eli: Exactly. Yeah to a Jew, gosh, man. They're really octoroon. Why does that phrase have octoroon

0:34:44 Thomas: Oh every every idiom do you do that with your kids now too? It's great, it's part of growing and becoming less shitty as a world, but there will be times where just out of nowhere, you'll brain, your will go to, like, this is what everyone said in 1980 fucking nine and then you're like, like, nope, and that's why, nope, no, that's not why they say that

0:34:45 Eli: Yep crisscross

0:34:45 Tom: Oh my god yeah yeah all the time I have to be like it's crisscross applesauce this is crisscross applesauce that's what this is yeah do

0:35:07 Eli: Applesauce it's

0:35:03 Thomas: Yeah so funny I love when it catches you by surprise though, we're like, oh yeah, that too, fuck, that thing, geez, everything we said fucking sucked, uh.

0:35:16 Tom: You know what I learned, not that long ago, from buying a house, is that it's now called an owner's suite and not the master bedroom. I had no idea. It makes all the sense in the world when you think about it, right? But like that never occurred to me at all, so like I'm walking through I'm like, oh, where's the master bedroom, I'm the worst, blah blah blah you know like

0:35:27 Eli: For the, the best. Yep yep

0:35:23 Thomas: Yeah yeah I know I think they they've, I think they've adjusted that in computers too, because, like, an early, you know, it's always like master and slave device, you know, in terms of the, yeah, it's funny, like

0:35:36 Tom: Oh

0:35:44 Eli: It's so, one of the funny things is that if you, if anyone out there is a C++ nerd, um, the new technology is porto, like, you're supposed to call it a porto device as opposed to a slave device, but the word in code is still slave, so you can, there are no libraries for C++, plus so you have to put in your comments, hey, this is from, this is in the language, and I'm real sorry, I love you, and I also, I think I voted for Barack Obama twice, yes.

0:36:00 Tom: Oh

0:36:11 Thomas: In the comments of the code yeah I

0:36:15 Eli: Exactly, hashtag hashtag I voted for Obama twice. No, because you'll just be like the slave, slave, slavey.

0:36:16 Thomas: Would vote for Obama third time oh

0:36:23 Eli: Slave, slave slave, slave slave. You write the word slave more than twice, you get real uncomfortable. Let me tell you

0:36:24 Thomas: Man yeah that's as it should be yeah that's good we didn't we barely touched on it but I do want to say okay quick polling for the three bears scenario I guess to kind of reiterate uh Eli, I think we can guess your parents or your dad, at least, was Eli's right no matter who he's in conflict with, right? Or not. Would you surprise us?

0:36:32 Eli: No no they they they definitely called me out when I was wrong they stood I will say they stood behind me when there were inappropriate punishments right I had disagreements with teachers um and there were certainly times where I was lippy that I probably should have gotten in trouble for it but I said something funny and so I sort of gotta gotta pass at home there's also Also, like, my parents didn't particularly believe that swearing was bad, so I got in trouble twice for swearing, and once from one of my favorite teachers, she had to send me home for the day, and I, of course, you know, being the best kid, the AAA student I was, was traumatized. I was like they

0:36:51 Thomas: That's good.

0:37:14 Thomas: Yeah. Oh,

0:37:28 Eli: Sent me home and my mom was like we're we're gonna go to mcdonald's you get to go to mcdonald's I don't know how to tell you you grown-ups are allowed to say fuck so we're just gonna go to mcdonald's and not talk about this

0:37:29 Thomas: Yeah.

0:37:41 Thomas: That's funny. I think we talked about this maybe earlier. Now it's been a fucking year, so I don't care if we talked about it a year ago. Probably new people. Did I tell the story? I can't remember if it was on this or not of when Phoebe got in trouble for saying like, oh my God, or whatever.

0:37:42 Eli: Yes

0:37:56 Thomas: Yeah, I think, I think maybe that's when Eli, you might've told your story because it's seeming familiar, but it is going to be funny with the bad language because I don't care either. That's going to be a tough one to parent because I super don't care. And then I had to do this, like pretend be mad at my kid. Because clearly, yeah.

0:37:55 Eli: You told us this story yes yes

0:37:57 Tom: Yes

0:38:12 Eli: You had to be like oh phoebe

0:38:14 Tom: Oh wait this is interesting so wait a minute do you not care if your kids swear like if like phoebe started like dropping f-bombs or just because I do care

0:38:14 Eli: Wow right

0:38:20 Thomas: Well I shouldn't say not care I I would say like there's obviously a time and a place like yeah if any you know if she's like fuck you teacher like obviously that's not okay but like I don't know man if she gets it depends on how it happens but if she gets a fucking detention and the thing is like we heard her saying a bad word to her friends and we'd be like all right fucking who cares I don't give a shit yeah

0:38:43 Eli: Or they fall down and they're like motherfucker I'm like that's first of all that's hilarious but but but also you do have to be like hey there are these weird social codes like you gotta follow these social codes because they're they're important right these ones don't really matter a grown-up will be like naughty naughty but like the other you can't break one code and be like don't worry grown-up rules aren't real and then later when your kid's like why do I have to wear a shirt be like oh wait no please follow the rules now oh uh I want you to care about these ones right like because all of it's nonsense so that's why you gotta you gotta enforce like sometimes this shit's not gonna make sense and

0:38:45 Thomas: A fine yeah

0:38:51 Tom: Oh

0:38:55 Thomas: Yeah yeah really

0:39:22 Tom: See

0:39:23 Eli: But and we'll go to mcdonald's fucking

0:39:25 Thomas: Huh

0:39:23 Tom: I care a lot if they swear yeah I care a lot if they swear yeah like up until a certain age yeah they shouldn't sway like like I it's it's um and my ex has has a very different take on this so my eight-year-old um is allowed to curse as much as he would like in her home and like I I am absolutely diametrically opposed to that dime and he like I'll talk to him on the phone and he'll drop f-bombs and like just casually be like I don't fucking care and I'm just like oh what the shit what is happening like and

0:39:27 Thomas: All

0:39:51 Eli: Roblox

0:39:53 Thomas: Right that's instantly making me question this position I didn't think that was what that meant

0:39:58 Tom: It's yeah it's so like it's so socially inappropriate and I don't trust kids young kids especially to do a good job of managing the context of their language usage and not making mistakes and most of the world that's going to to be a problem for them like it just seems insane to me to open that door until they're old enough to know when it's okay to crack that door and when it's okay to keep that door shut so Like I'm I'm much more I don't like in trouble is not something that happens in my house but I will give a correction if somebody like swears, you know, like hey, hey, watch your language, you know, like we don't do that.

0:39:58 Thomas: Yeah yeah yeah

0:40:14 Eli: Right mm-hmm Absolutely. Yeah.

0:40:35 Thomas: No. That's fair, maybe That Yeah.

0:40:38 Eli: How Are, yeah, We. How are we treating other people? Are we making other people feel comfortable? Right. Because when a little kid swears around me, I have sort of a freeze moment where I'm like, what do I do here? I can swear, I'm really good, they're swearing, do I swear with them, do I not swear, what do I do? It's, it's why, um, when I'm around children I talk like a crazy person because I never swear around kids but all my language is fucks, shits, so I'll be like, I'm not trying to noodle your doodle because I don't know, pull your leg, my brain is just like, I'm not trying to fuck with you, and I'm like, quick, brain, something that isn't swearing, and it's like, I'm not horse porcupine, and I'm like, well, that was nothing thing, but I'd rat again like I've been around the kids who have that and there is a, there is a feeling of non-compliance and, um, aggressiveness in the presence of those kids that often makes not just other children but adults uncomfortable.

0:41:16 Thomas: Yeah,

0:41:32 Tom: Yeah.

0:41:32 Eli: And so that's where I think the correction lies, is like, hey, do you think everyone's, is like, is this cash money, are we all loving this moment where you just said fuck at this bat mitzvah, or is it like not super chill? And

0:41:45 Thomas: Yeah,

0:41:45 Tom: What I I also think it's good for kids just to learn the idea of what's appropriate and what's not appropriate. It's really useful. It's really, Really, just socially valuable for kids. So it's an opportunity to give kids and understand just to be like, hey, look, there are some things which are appropriate and some things which are inappropriate, and like swearing at your age is just inappropriate right now, when you get older it may be more appropriate to swear, because some things we can do when we're older, like drive, that we can't do when we're younger, and kids get that, right, and it's not complicated, and they don't, like is it a little bit of a nonsensical comparison, of course it is, but kids do understand it, they don't, I mean, I've never had a problem with any of the four kids like getting them well, three, get them to like understand that concept, but just understanding The idea of what's appropriate and what's not appropriate has an enormous amount of like social value, so It's Just a nice easy kind of like wedge in that door.

0:41:53 Thomas: Yeah,

0:42:32 Eli: Yeah. Right.

0:42:39 Thomas: I Guess that's kind of what I had was in mind. I guess I didn't have in mind like, oh, yes, say fuck all the time. And I guess I had in mind like you wouldn't, my kids won't get in trouble just for the mere existence of these words that they say. You know what I mean? It would be a contextual thing rather, have it so it wouldn't be like de facto you're in trouble really hard if you ever curse. It's like, all right, man, like you gotta, fucking, I don't care if you're cursing with your friends, but like, yeah, if we're fucking, if we're at grandma's house or whatever, like you're not, that's not okay. Yeah.

0:43:14 Eli: Oh, See, I, I'm in the other where I'm like, look, if today my son comes home and he's like, fucking Daniel Tiger, I'm gonna be like, that's hilarious, awesome. Um, But If he's preschool where like adults are gonna be uncomfortable and other kids are gonna be uncomfortable, right, it's about the, uh, the way other people feel, based on that. If it's him and me, I will tell you the first time my dad made me laugh all the time, but one of the moments that sticks out in my memory, the hardest is one of my sweetest memories is me and my parents were in Paris. You guys remember your first time in Paris with your parents, right? Um, we were in Paris.

0:43:22 Thomas: Oh, yeah, that's fine. Yeah.

0:43:49 Eli: My mom had, yeah, no, he learned you couldn't take a tractor there.

0:43:49 Thomas: I Dad did not fly on an airplane for my I'm not even joking, never, during my lifetime. Yeah.

0:43:57 Eli: And he was like, I'm out. Um, and they didn't even have McDonald's, but no, we were in Paris, and my mom was out shopping, she was supposed to be back at like one and she didn't get back till three, um, and I got really worried, I was like seven or eight years old, I got really worried that something had happened to her because we were in this new place and I was really worried, and I had this stuffed hedgehog, and that we had bought earlier in the day, and it had a friend, dad was doing it with a French accent, but it was also swearing, And I was crying, he would be like, your fucking mother said she would be a fucking one o'clock but she's not fucking here so I guess we will just fuck ourselves, and I was crying with laughter, I mean truly I cannot remember a moment where I just laughed as hard with my dad, but like again that was everyone was playing, you Know everyone was having a good time, so that's, that's, I guess how I feel about swearing.

I have a related story about swearing that's so awkward, except it, it happened to be this week. So this week, um, I did a magic gig, and I never do magic anymore professionally, ever, ever, ever. I don't really like gigging cause you have to interrupt people while they're eating or otherwise enjoying a party. I'm not a party guy anymore. I go to sleep at 10. So they're like, we'll start at 10. And

0:44:21 Thomas: Yeah.

0:44:41 Thomas: I

0:45:10 Eli: I'm like, Jesus, no. Um, and I would rather throw it to my younger friends who are full-time magicians, right? If I can pay someone else's rent, that's so much better than me showing up and being like, now I have this money. Um, but this was an older client who absolutely insisted, um, his son had had me at some younger stuff and now he wanted me for his daughter's 21st birthday, so I was like, okay, I'll do it, fine, let's do it. So I go to this apartment, these people have more money than all the gods put together, it's just insane, insane, and it is very clearly 20 somethings doing a tremendous amount of cocaine right in on every surface, like barely even hiding it, they had hired an open bar for their apartment, so there was just this

0:45:09 Thomas: Was

0:45:55 Eli: Guy like clenched in the corner like a prisoner of war being like, please ask me for something that isn't cocaine.

0:46:01 Thomas: Gonna say, is there such a thing as an open cocaine bar? I don't know, that'd be Well,

0:46:03 Eli: Yeah, No. I, they needed a cocaine tender way more than I needed a bartender. But there was also the daughter's college, like younger than college, maybe 17 year old high school age sister, who had obviously been like, I want to be at the grown-up party now. Let me be clear, I think there's nothing wrong with a cocaine party, you want to have a cocaine party, have a cocaine party, just, you know, remind everybody that they're going to feel like shit the next day, my issue is when you involve children in that shit, I be, I turn full prude, I become a Victorian school marm the minute children are around like drugs or sex or any of that stuff, I'm like, nope, now must only be spelling tests and Garfield the cat, I'm like, I have no chill for that, like, no, it's okay, man, like we just won't give her any coke.

0:46:56 Eli: Like I have none of that, no. No, this And And this

0:46:56 Tom: No, what who's Chill about that Are there people that are chill about that?

0:47:01 Eli: Is a Huge thing in drug culture. Yes, there's a huge thing in drug culture of like, don't worry, we don't let them have any drugs or, you know, right, exactly.

0:47:08 Thomas: I I imagine Is It the, is the mindset like, well, adults drink beers around kids all the time, you know, so

0:47:16 Tom: Yeah. I'll just I'll just go out real quick and say just that is an unequivocally wrong position, but go ahead.

0:47:16 Thomas: Therefore Yeah.

0:47:21 Tom: Like No, I give No ground on that At all, dude, I'm right there with you. Yeah.

0:47:21 Eli: Thank you. Exactly. But that is not mine. There's. Yes, exactly. So I am super crazy uncomfortable and I don't, I can't be like, hey, man, why is there a child here, right, because it's just a, you know, what am I supposed to do, um, but I do go up to the host And I'm like, I'm the magician, uh, and so I'm like, hey, um, you know, I'm gonna do a little show later for everybody, uh, I know that everyone here is swearing, should I keep it clean because there's a younger person here, which is my way of saying, why is there a child in a room where I can see bags of cocaine with my eyeballs, right?

That's what I'm trying to do with this. And he's like, no, no, swear as much as you like, swear as much as you like, and she went out to prove exactly why this is a bad scenario. So I'm doing the show, and again, these are post college age people, they're coked out of their minds, and so all the answers are dirty, and I don't mind doing a dirty show, I don't mind working blue for all the adults in the room, I'm just uncomfortable because there's a child there, right? I'm just like, there is a child

0:47:38 Thomas: You're Just some fucking magician somebody hired to go

0:47:41 Tom: Yeah.

0:48:23 Tom: Man.

0:48:23 Eli: Present. We shouldn't be making these jokes in front of children, so I guess I'm running like a little cleaner than I maybe usually would, but their answers are, do I think of a word, I'm thinking of blowjob, and I'm like blowjob, and everyone's like, and I'm like, oh, this is why I don't kick anymore.

0:48:39 Thomas: I

0:48:40 Tom: I would have walked out I can't even believe you. I would have, Eli, I feel you, so I would have been like, nope, I gotta go, all right, but go. Yeah, oh, zero

0:48:41 Eli: Yeah. So so much of my soul wanted to do this, it's so much of my soul. So, but here, here was the moment of just staggering horror, right? So I'm doing my big final trick, right, and I'm like, hey, you took a word, I get, they get a book from their shelf, they look at any word in the book, I'm gonna tell you what it is, right? And so I'm like, okay, this is finally a clean trick, I can involve the sister, make her feel welcome, she'll get a big round of applause and like it's not some horrible dirty thing. So I'm like, hey, do you want to help with this one? She's like, yeah. I'm like, great, go get a word, come on, go get the book, come next to me. And I'm like, thank you, the word, I start to write it down, and this is what happens, really, put yourself in my shoes here, live in the horror, I'm starting to write down the word, I'm 35 years old, she goes, if if you get this right, I'm gonna give you a blow job. Yeah.

0:48:51 Tom: Percent would have stayed.

0:49:36 Tom: What?

0:49:38 Eli: From from a child who is maybe 17 years old.

0:49:42 Tom: Nope, see, and that's why our position on no is the right position.

0:49:48 Thomas: Just be like, well, never mind, trick over, okay, oh, I got it wrong.

0:49:52 Eli: It's so close to that, it's so close to that, luckily I don't know what, maybe somewhere, somewhere deep in the medulla ambangata of one of the adults in this room, they were like, wait a second, a child just offered a blowjob to an adult. So he was like, I'll take her. And they like left. I don't know, what, I kidnapped to this child and ran away. But I, I literally, I stole from my buddy. I held perfectly still. I just froze, held perfectly still until the child was gone. And I was like, someone else pick a book. Look, I was not going to acknowledge the situation that it happened. We just picked another book and we did the magic trick with someone else.

0:49:52 Thomas: Oh,

0:50:17 Tom: Christ.

0:50:33 Thomas: She turned into one of Tom's exes, I don't is, whoa, there's someone here was there, there's someone here a moment ago, weird, that was my magic trick, she's now not here.

0:50:39 Eli: And she turned.

0:50:41 Tom: And they disappeared like Magic. I

0:50:47 Eli: I made a child disappear. All right, gentlemen, before we go, what do you call a book club that's been stuck on the same book for years?

0:51:07 Tom: That's good.

0:51:08 Eli: Church.

0:51:05 Thomas: It's

0:51:09 Tom: Right, so I got it, sort of like, this isn't, this is a me being a kid story, not like a story of like one of our kids, but Eli, your, your, your magic story reminded me of this, um, and this is one of those stories that like, and it's like a lot of my childhood, where like, you have to like look back on, and you're like, oh, it's

0:51:28 Thomas: A Tom story, so it's you telling the story

0:51:29 Tom: A Tom

0:51:29 Eli: It's a dumb story.

0:51:30 Thomas: Okay.

0:51:30 Tom: Story. But this one is this

0:51:30 Eli: Yeah. I'm

0:51:30 Thomas: So now we've categorized it into Tom is the person talking right now, whoa.

0:51:33 Tom: Right

0:51:31 Eli: Telling the story. Okay. Good to know.

0:51:35 Tom: So so there are parts of the story that I want to make sure that, parts of this scenario I got to paint for the main show, but there was, I used to go, my mother used to live down in Tampa, Florida, um, and so my dad lived in Chicago, after I moved in with my dad, my mom stayed in Tampa, and she was very often destitute, so she was very often like living with friends or, you know, otherwise struggling like to to make her way, um, like getting on her feet, for my mom eventually became like renting a trailer in Tampa, which is a pretty desperate getting on your feet kind of a kind of a solution, so just kind of paint a picture, but there was one time she sent for us, so she, she did, to her credit, she scrounged up some money, she bought some plane tickets, she sent for us to spend a week or two with her over the summer in Tampa when we were off of school, so no better time to go to Tampa, Florida than like fucking July.

No more wonderful time, but she rarely had time off of work, and so we'd go down to visit her, but she would have to go to work every day. Yeah, she would work I don't remember what she did.

0:52:38 Thomas: Whoa whoa, now she's working, okay, what did she do what, this is wow, huge if true oh,

0:52:44 Tom: Yeah. I don't remember what her job was, but this one time we went to visit her, she was living with a friend, this woman named Marissa, and I don't know that she and my mom were very good friends or even terribly friendly, and where this lady Marissa lived, and I'll tell more about this on the main show, was like this really fucked up house, like near these like woods in Florida by this lake, it was all fucking nuts, um, but Marissa, when we, when my mom would leave for work, she would tell us to go play outside and not to come back inside until my mom came back from work, so my mom would leave for like nine o'clock, and like we'd have to be out of the house from nine to say five when my mom got back, so we'd have to play outside, we weren't allowed back in the house during this time, which is kind of shit, like in Florida.

0:52:45 Thomas: Wow.

0:53:31 Thomas: Fucking

0:53:31 Tom: It's fucking hot, there's frequently just a thunderstorm in the afternoon in the summer, there's, yeah, like I can't even, I'll tell, that's like, there's alligator stories I'll tell you about like later, but that are part of this particular trip. I

0:53:36 Thomas: Alligators yeah

0:53:43 Eli: Today's not the day for alligator stories today.

0:53:44 Thomas: Yeah Jesus.

0:53:46 Eli: Alive.

0:53:45 Tom: Literally don't know how to express to you how much it is a miracle we survived this two weeks in Florida, like literally survived it, but like we were there, and so this lady Marissa is like, how, like, she, she has people over, so my brother and I are outside, we're playing in the garage trying to like keep ourselves like out of the direct sunlight, we're in There's nothing to play with, by the way, there's no toys or anything, so we're just like, we got rocks and like we're throwing shit at stuff and like playing with the wildlife and trying to catch lizards and like just whatever you can do to occupy yourself for eight hours in the Florida sun, so we're doing this thing, and she has people over, so she has over at least, at least two other couples, and she had a guy there herself, so

0:53:54 Thomas: Question,

0:54:06 Eli: It's

0:54:28 Thomas: Is she feeding you at least, how are you eating? Yeah.

0:54:30 Tom: I don't remember that, so I don't want to like, I don't want to say no, but I don't remember coming inside and we, and I know we weren't allowed inside because we had to pee outside, so she's like, she basically, she'd be like, just go around a tree.

0:54:34 Eli: Real it's real Florida project. Up. In here, it's

0:54:43 Tom: Like she did not want us inside, she was not, this is not a good situation, right, this is a bad situation, so

0:54:32 Thomas: Yeah oh, boy, oh,

0:54:49 Eli: Not, it sounds dope, it sounds super cool, sure.

0:54:49 Thomas: God,

0:54:52 Tom: This Is the part that, like, I I had to look back at this as an adult and realize, like, what had happened. So one day it's the middle of the week and I'm outside and I gotta take a shit.

0:55:02 Thomas: Jesus.

0:55:02 Tom: Like I just, like, it's one of those things where I'm just like, I absolutely have got to take a shit, and I knew I wasn't allowed back in the house, but I had to go back in the house, you know, so, like, I had to go back in. And so I was like, fuck it, I was like, I'm just, I'm either gonna shit my pants or I had to go back, I gotta go inside the house to use the toilet, you know. So I go inside the house and I walked in and through what I now know was the opening ceremonies, shall we say, of a group sex orgy situation.

0:55:14 Thomas: Christ.

0:55:33 Thomas: Really?

0:55:34 Tom: So

0:55:34 Thomas: That's okay.

0:55:35 Eli: Interesting.

0:55:35 Thomas: I'll be honest, of the things you could have said when I walked in the door, you know, like, that's, that's not the worst, I'll just say, that's not the worst. Like, there's, I was prepared for like, like, they're an active dismemberment of, of, of a body. Um, just like everybody, heroin needles everywhere. Like if anything, at least this is a bit of good, clean fun is all.

0:55:46 Eli: Yeah. Okay, that is worse that is worse I

0:55:57 Tom: Now I don't know if there were that Yeah, I, yeah, it was, and I had no idea that that's what I had walked into, because I didn't, like, I was a pretty young kid, so I'm like, in you know, second or third grade, so I never, I didn't, like, really process those images in that way at all. Like, but, like, it was very clearly that's what was happening.

0:56:06 Thomas: Yeah.

0:56:16 Tom: Like just it was like

0:56:16 Thomas: Until the hypnotist, uh, regressed you and you're like, wait a minute. This is hidden memory.

0:56:20 Tom: You just like it's like it's You'll look back and I'm like, oh no, like, that dude's dick was out, like, and her hand was on it, and, like, they were all like in a pile together. Most of them were mostly clothed, but I mean, it was the opening ceremonies for an orgy, right, so that's like what they were getting up to

0:56:33 Thomas: Singing the national anthem.

0:56:35 Eli: Was Gonna say, sounds like a shitty orgy, because, you know, the ones I've been to, you're laying out the air mattresses, you're pointing out where the water is.

0:56:42 Thomas: The exits. Yeah, fire extinguishers I

0:56:45 Tom: Why so it was just it was, it was one of those things like where you look back on and you're like, wait a minute, that magic show was inappropriate. Like, wait a minute, like, I know, I know why I wasn't allowed in the house during the day, because everybody was getting fucked, that's why I wasn't allowed on the house during the day.

0:56:53 Thomas: Get

0:57:01 Eli: Yeah.

0:57:01 Thomas: I don't know, do you trust that memory because, like, what, what is then, this situation that you like, every day for two weeks, your wife's friend or your mom's friend is having an orgy, like, what the

0:57:03 Tom: No No. I just think that that was that day, I think she just didn't want us there. I think she was, she was very unfriendly to us no she was like

0:57:17 Eli: Yeah, dress walk through

0:57:15 Thomas: Other days were orgy rehearsal all right everybody two three, four, oh fuck, there's a kid here, damn it, stop, yeah

0:57:24 Tom: I don't know what her situation was with my mom or why she let my mom stay there, but she was very hostile to us, like, she didn't let us eat her food, like, it was super like she was super hostile to us being there and like pretty yeah, like pretty openly so

0:57:32 Thomas: There's there's jizz in it, that's why

0:57:32 Eli: Cool Tom I feel like I don't get to say this enough, but I want you to know, I mean it from my heart, I wish there was a hell for your mom to be in. I really do, I'm sad there's not, I'm sad she just gets to be dead. I'm, I'm coming around on the Christian worldview just for your mom.

0:57:49 Tom: Yeah. It was, it was not an ideal, uh, two-week scenario, so, but yeah, it was like It is one of those stories where, like, you look back on, you're like, I, I walked into an orgy once when I was in second or third grade. That was a weird thing to do, that's a weird memory to sort of like have tucked away in the back of the old bean. Yeah.

0:57:59 Thomas: Jeez. All

0:58:13 Eli: All

0:58:18 Clip: Wanna meet sexy dilfs in your area? Email thedads at dearoldads.com or better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle and the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite dilf, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues LLC. Copyright 2022, all rights reserved.

0:58:56 Thomas: I think

0:58:56 Eli: You do. You do want to record those, that's what they say

0:58:58 Thomas: We should probably. Record you have me going a half hour earlier, and I can't, I don't even know, my medication hasn't kicked in yet, I don't know what, what button does that, who am I, what work is this, are you listening to the to the if Books Could Kill, yeah it's so good oh of course yeah I love that show, uh

0:59:10 Tom: Yeah yeah do you like that I love that show yeah yeah yeah, I

0:59:09 Eli: Well love languages are yeah I also listen to things that aren't me, love it, my favorite one is ready

0:59:17 Tom: Aren't me my

0:59:21 Thomas: Yeah