What the Media Are Getting Wrong About the Ilhan Omar Raid

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:10 Thomas: And welcome to opening arguments this is vapid response wednesday number 47 I think is one of my favorite number other than 45 two faves I'm thomas that over there's real life immigration attorney matt cameron how you doing matt oh

0:00:26 Matt: Thomas I've ben reading antonin scalia's I did it again samuel riddle's book I I have actually read a scalia book or two too but uh yeah, been reading Samuel Liddell's book and watching way too much Benny Johnson, so you tell me. Not great on a Tuesday.

0:00:39 Thomas: I can't decide which is worse

0:00:40 Lydia: My god I'm so sorry yeah

0:00:43 Matt: The things I do for work, no,

0:00:45 Thomas: At least benny johnson is like you expect him to be that like you respect the supreme court justice to not be what what uh what's his name is now you're ruining me yeah alito

0:00:52 Matt: And he is just as whiny as you might expect. I was actually considering doing a LiddELL's book for rapid response because we could play clips from Spotify, but I don't think we need to put anybody through that.

0:00:58 Thomas: We got we got listeners you're like don't make me do it was that one of the patron names it's like don't make me read yeah

0:01:04 Matt: Please don't. Yeah, don't make me wait for book club. I thought instead of book club, we could just, you know, spoon -feed it to you, but even so, it's not a meal. It's not worth eating.

0:01:14 Thomas: Anyway how's Lydia doing yeah

0:01:16 Lydia: Well feeling nauseous right now because of all that the idea of being spoon -fed samuel alito's book gross um otherwise good

0:01:24 Thomas: We've ruined the show we got to start over yeah now of course we're gonna be talking about some vapid stuff and responding to it Matt what do we got today yeah

0:01:26 Lydia: From the top yeah

0:01:34 Matt: Well, today we've got to look into the Ilhan Omar story. As of the time we're recording, she has just been surged a search warrant this week on her house. I want to talk a little bit about what that is actually about, because the media is really getting this one wrong, as you might expect. And of course, nobody's getting it wrong more than conservative media, so we have some things to look at and respond to there. But this is kind of a baffling case. Well, it would be more baffLING if it weren't Ilhan Omar and it weren'T, you terms um and yeah

0:01:58 Thomas: I was gonna say yes I think I I'm on the case I solved it it

0:02:02 Matt: It's racism the culprit is racism yep straight up yeah

0:02:05 Thomas: And and trying to gain a partisan edge I guess probably

0:02:07 Lydia: And politics yeah yeah I

0:02:08 Matt: And and going after one of their favorite targets and then just as a little palate cleanser I have got a fun piece at the end where a conservative goes to denmark and realizes it's fine actually that's that's the whole point yeah it turns out scholarship

0:02:11 Lydia: Love

0:02:23 Thomas: You know that's like the flat earthers that get on the plane and see the world is actually round we said that we should do this we gotta do conservative send mega to san francisco I mean some of the right parts of san francisco there is a lot of homelessness it's not like but it's

0:02:23 Lydia: That they're like oh my god wow it's beautiful yeah yeah not the tenderloin yeah yeah oh

0:02:35 Matt: But copenhagen though I mean that's you know it

0:02:40 Thomas: Um but but there's so much of san franciscos fine you know it's completely uh beautiful and amazing uh yeah we gotta send them to all the places they think are like the total I think I saw someone post the just a random post the other day that was like my mom literally thinks portland is like gone like it doesn't exist

0:02:56 Matt: Burned down

0:02:56 Lydia: Like we lost portland yeah in the war

0:02:58 Thomas: You're like oh boy yeah I don't know I don'T know if that's real or not but I that's it's yeah it's plausible ish we'll see um all right that would be a fun exchange program though and then they they realize and some of those flat earthers like some of them did change their mind some of them just find a way you know they find I love that documentary where the where the last part of the experiment where they the laser is like slightly off because it's like well the earth is curved should be about here it'slike huh it just ends oh good times it's likethat all right well that sounds fun except uh I can't believe what's happening with ilhan omar I really worry about that and I don't know maybe

0:03:03 Lydia: Crazy yeah I feel

0:03:38 Thomas: Matt will tell us how worried we should be um because it just seems like I I get that the courts are holding up somewhat when it comes to this stuff but I just would this complicate anything is this you know what to the extent this harassment is working we'll uh we'll ask all those questions but first we've got to take our first break and thank our patrons our hall of famers our all -time greats patreon.com/law we got a Law'd Awful Movies we're recording very soon can't wait to get that to you folks uh and these folks are the ones who make it happen most of all so thank you to help I'm trapped in a patreon shout out wayne 12 my house is a mess but I read a lot of books griff the tire 2l matthew cutler twitch .tv slash mtc underscore streams forgetting to change my patreon name I've had crunch wraps more supreme than this court unpronounceable nerd reference worm court is now in session all right amina donna treadaway way mother of heritage still rooting for the hamburgers to deliver more timely justice than the current system wait is that a return I feel like that one hasn't yeah

0:04:42 Lydia: Like you haven't had to say hamburgers in a while

0:04:43 Thomas: Yeah nice we do have one additional so maybe that one that person came back nice mike lapinski denver airport people mover I don't know what that is but I like it it sounds like a band or something like was that the same like uh syllables as um yeah what am I thinking of anyway uh cyanitis midterm anxiety great preponderance of the evidence last train to skanksville I am not an abogado apprentice of adventure and charlie kelly attorney at bird law thanks so much to our first third of hall of famers those who pledge five dollars above at that uh at patreon.com/law all right we'll take a break and then we'll get to it yeah right matt why am I looking at I was about to say albert brooks that'd be way better it's

0:04:44 Lydia: But I yeah yeah yeah totally I don't know

0:05:27 Thomas: Not albert prooks yeah

0:05:28 Matt: I would watch a lot more of albert brooks than david brooks who's that's the person you are looking at uh so as always we're gonna start off a little amuse-douche just a little uh palette uh establisher not cleanser but something that just setting things up uh so I always like to make sure we have a short clip of something up up front uh this made some waves a few days ago uh so this is david books commenting on john ossoff's comments on his opponent and uh so let's start with the setup at uh the first clip here at second 30 it's

0:05:38 Lydia: Awesome establisher oh that's so good

0:05:40 Thomas: Yeah uh palette establisher okay didn't

0:06:02 Clip: It's not just that you've hired half the Third Reich to staff your congressional office and you have promoted neo -nazi content online. It's that you're robbing your constituents to subsidize your donors. If John Lewis were marching today from Selma to Montgomery, Mike Collins would be grabbing a billy club. I've condemned racism, anti-Semitism, hate, I don't care where the source is. And I tell him that, too. It's wrong. We have no place in this world for that. And in Maine, Republican Senator Susan Collins...

0:06:21 Matt: Good stuff so that's the setup uh and I will just say before we continue that he does have a place in his family because his son -in -law uh as you may have seen uh pretty hardcore uh wearing a wearing a hood and such he's had multiple members of his family of his campaign uh but his son in law was was uh looks like pretty strong ties to white nationalism uh but he's one of those people sort of surrounded by Nazis or aspiring Nazis.

0:06:44 Thomas: Didn't see that wait what well you know so who among us it just sometimes happens yeah

0:07:02 Matt: Yeah, not in Boston, but maybe in Georgia. I don't know. So let's see what David Birx in his infinite wisdom has to say. He's also going to be commenting on the Susan Collins. Apparently there's some statement about how she's a war profiteer because she has, of course, invested personally in that sort of thing. And he's also gonna comment on another thing as well. And, oh, excuse me, I'll say it in Michigan. And the obvious case there that he's being called a terrorist because he is Muslim. Obviously, that's a softball for David Brooks. But let's see how he handles the rest of these.

0:07:34 Thomas: Can't think of what the other reason would be like oh he did do that one bombing I guess but other than that uh

0:07:37 Matt: Three.

0:07:40 Lydia: Three

0:07:41 Clip: I think something has changed since 2006, which is we've had 10 years of political moral decay. And candidates used to be inhibited a bit by the sense that if I lie, if I'm a total sleazebag, it might hurt me. And now they realize it won't hurt me at all. And, in fact, my partisans may actually like it. And so I think in those three cases, all three of those things were sleazy behavior. Xavier. Troy Jackson, Susan Collins has some Boeing stock in her portfolio. And he calls her a war profiteer because that's ridiculous. The insinuations that al -Sayed is involved in terrorism because he's Muslim, ridiculous. John Ossoff, my advice to him is if you start calling your political opponents Nazis, maybe it's time to shut up. That's just not what we do here in this country. And the Bull Connor stuff. And, you know, a lot of these candidates have real weaknesses like

0:08:26 Matt: You go.

0:08:27 Clip: I might

0:08:28 Thomas: Matt this sounds like classic both sidesy stuff I haven't looked into this but just just from what he claimed so I love when we do this both side stuff and I say we I mean this exact guy it's always this person it's uh yeah it's like well you know you know what's the same if you say that uh collins is a war profiteer because of her stock I'm guessing he's alighting over something there and that's the same as calling a muslim a terrorist just because he's muslim as though there's any comparison of those things and it's such classic david brooks to well I've picked a few things including one that's gonna be you know one or two that are gonna be from the right so it really makes me seem even -handed but that you're doing the thing that got us here man yeah

0:08:40 Lydia: Atlantic yeah

0:09:12 Matt: Yep and and she did I mean we already knew from we talked about this a couple weeks ago but she is very interested in defense contractors certainly very invested in them I doubt it's more than just one boeing stock I think she has multiple stocks in defense companies but we certainly know that she's willing to do business

0:09:19 Thomas: Wait so was the the controversy that we covered was that related defense stuff but

0:09:28 Matt: That was a navy contract so I mean right there I know I know

0:09:29 Thomas: Then why the does he not know about that or something what's the date of this video or is it

0:09:32 Matt: I know yeah well yeah she she I don't know she personally profited because the money came to her campaign but there's an allegation obviously that like if she's soliciting defense contractors here's for money she's a war profiteer that's fine

0:09:45 Lydia: Mike

0:09:45 Thomas: This video is october 9th that's after that got oh

0:09:49 Matt: And also I will point out uh immediately after two more uh people associated with collins's campaign came out as associated with the far right group american patriots usa my cons yes very important two collinses I didn't even catch that as I could catch um and uh yeah so that was too like there's a long line at this point as you I think Asif is a solid joke that he was hiring half the Third Reich because just a phenomenal number of people associated with pretty obviously Nazi causes, including his son -in -law.

0:09:59 Thomas: Are we dealing with two collinses oh no wonder wow yeah

0:09:59 Lydia: Collins not susan collins right yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, my guy.

0:10:22 Matt: His son - in -law was already added by CNN as somebody who's promoting the patriot front, which is about as bad as it gets. Yeah.

0:10:16 Thomas: Look accidents happen matt okay so why do we have this worthless fool on this show like this is the exact person we need this we don't need this anymore this is the the can this go extinct we have some guy who's I don't know how he got his job or why but we always have to hear from him he's on pbs news hour which is a respectable show why what's the purpose of having somebody come on and just lie about what the accusations are to make a false equivalence which is the thing that has gotten us here what's the point of that can we be done let's be done with that

0:10:59 Matt: Yeah. No, it's just shushing us for nothing. And it was good to hear David Brooks talk about the moral decay of America when he left his wife for a research assistant half his age, but that's not my business.

0:11:06 Thomas: I didn't even know that are you

0:11:12 Matt: Yeah, I'm very serious. Yeah. Just worth mentioning every time he talks about morality. But yeah. So there's David Brooks. I'm sure he'll be returning to Vapid Response soon enough. He's had plenty of columns we could talk about. Although honestly, he's so boring, it's barely worth it.

0:11:12 Thomas: Serious oh my god dude yeah yeah he's pretty boring I just want just wake me up when he's gone like I don't mean he doesn't have to die or anything but like what what are you doing what is the media doing what is the point there's other people you know it's like they have a rolodex from 1997 and they're just going to keep going to the same people forever it's it's do something different god anyway

0:11:35 Lydia: Retired. Yeah Yeah, exactly. Yeah

0:11:49 Matt: But as you said, the moral equivalency of saying that that calling al -Sayed a terrorist is the same as, you know, we shouldn't call people Nazis in this country. Well, if they're associating with Nazis, and he didn't call them Nazis. So that's it. That's the end of it. Easy stuff.

0:11:58 Thomas: It's an it's incredible one is pure racism like the most vile kind of like evil that you could do and the other is like yeah there's evidence that she's profiting from you know she just was outed as as having gotten away with a very illegal thing that she shouldn't have gotten away we talked about on this show cry me a river like like like calling her a war profiteer is anything like just the vile racism of just calling someone a terrorist for no reason other than their their skin color obviously their religion it's ridiculous all right man we've got to get to more racism I think probably that's that's a safe guess even if I don't know what this we're talking about yeah

0:12:37 Matt: Yeah. Plenty more. But given today's topic, you know, it's going to be. So yeah, we're going to just set this up here. We'll get a little bit more about the allegations involving Ilhan Omar. And, you Know, I don't think there's anything to them from what we can tell so far. I am baffled by this search warrant, I have to say, because you have to have some probable cause of a crime and a judge signed off on the search warrant I'll speculate a little bit more as we go forward as we look into this but let's look first at a clip from benny johnson and jd vance from a few months ago it was back in may yeah

0:13:10 Lydia: Until

0:13:11 Thomas: Good let's see what this couch fucker has to say god he looks like he just fucked a couch right now you can see how messy is me did

0:13:14 Lydia: Freaking I hate this guy. Can I just say before you press play the kids asked me recently they were like who's the vice president because they hate trump and you know it comes up a lot for whatever reason and

0:13:27 Thomas: You say like oh no and they didn't they they didn't fill it they just no

0:13:29 Lydia: I I said I you know said his name or whatever and they're like well is he nice and I was like oh no no he sucks and they were like oh my god and I'm like yeah I know it sucks no matter what like so they're like even if trump is gone and he dies like then then this guy would be president I'm like yeah unfortunately that's what would happen

0:13:40 Thomas: That's such a man cool we've gotten through the first yeah yeah they're not old enough yeah it's like the kids books and schools thing that's like we can't you can't talk to your kids about jd vance I don't want to get that book out of the library I don'T WANT MY KIDS LEARNING ABOUT JD VANCE'S FUCKING FACE THAT'S VILE YEAH NO AND IT'S LIKE cool we've we've done the first two of nine billion disappointments for our kids they've gotten as far as president and vice president we'll go through the rest of the chain of command you have the six chain of succession uh but anyway all right oh catch fucker says what

0:13:48 Matt: Your children old enough to write about jd vanc yeah

0:13:51 Lydia: I mean yeah exactly yeah yeah I know it's bad yep I know it's just not great going all the way down wait

0:14:21 Clip: So okay uh let's talk about ilhan omar and obviously ilhan umar the president in the whitehouse has been out saying that she married her brother that there is uh immigration fraud going on here uh these are deportable uh denaturalization offenses I can give us an update on that yeah so we actually think that ilhan Omar definitely committed immigration fraud against the united states of america and I talked to steve miller about this actually recently we're trying to look at what the remedies are that's the thing that we're starting to figure out is what are the legal remedies now that we know that she's committed immigration fraud how do you go after

0:14:26 Thomas: This guy what marrying your brother what now

0:14:39 Lydia: Yeah what some

0:14:54 Thomas: That we why do you the vice

0:14:57 Clip: Her how do you investigate her how do they actually do the thing how do we build the case necessary to get some some some justice

0:14:57 Thomas: President just saying that sorry

0:14:59 Matt: How do you build a case

0:15:03 Thomas: How

0:15:03 Clip: For the american people

0:15:04 Lydia: Justice and how do you get to get it justice

0:15:04 Thomas: Do you build the case you start with she definitely committed fraud now how do we build thecase what you have to do the build the cage first you fucking nazi liars look at this guy's nazi haircut he went to his hair

0:15:14 Matt: This is months before the search warrant yep yeah

0:15:19 Lydia: I was gonna say that too he looks he literally looks like like a german from the 30s it looks like a truly nazi haircut I yeah also I'm so glad you paused this for his face to look like that oh perfect perfect and punchable

0:15:20 Thomas: Bother give me the nazi special yeah yeah it's intentional intentional for sure intentional yeah yeah sorry sorry meg

0:15:25 Matt: This is of course for yeah uh just want to point this is benny johnson of course conservative commentator for those who don't have the pleasure of looking at the screen right now um and yeah uh in the next clip we're going to watch uh in a minute benny Johnson is going to keep talking about how he has a high up source very very high up and it's you know obviously

0:15:34 Thomas: And uh russian paid uh operative yeah he's talking to the vice president what like

0:15:54 Matt: He that is good friend move and stiller of course uh yeah so I think that yeah um so that is the the weird thing that the vice president said now I just want to break down a couple of the things before we get into the rest of this there's two different allegations in play here and the conservative media is just very very conspicuously confusing them I don't think they care I don'T think it's reckless I just don't think they care um so the one is this thing about how she married her brother and the thing with the brothers excuse me the thing of their second marriage it's a little weird it's not documented we don't know she's on her third marriage now but her second marriage was to uh and we'll hear benny johnson talking about this but to somebody that for whatever reason all these people say is her brother or was her brother that she brought him over here because it would and it's true that if as a citizen it takes very very very long time right to get yourself a visa through your siblings so it would be faster to do a marriage visa but obviously that's you know insane to marry your brother uh to do it she's pacifist denied this every time it's come up um but this is the theory is and the whole thing is based on one thread from a somali local facebook group or something it's like there's a small forum on the online site and this has since been deleted I think because it's really scandalous and bad uh but the conservative press ran with this that like there's one person the somali community says this is a thing that people know about her um and who knows who that person is I think it was an anonymous anonymous post so that's not anything. The other thing is that, and the thing that the search warrant allegedly was actually based on, which doesn't make a lot of sense as I'll get into, is that her father may have filled out her form N -600 in such a way that he lied about her age at the time. Now, she would have had to sign that form, but she was a minor at the Time. She was either 17 or 18, depending on which version you believe. Her official birth date, as listed, is October 4th, 1982. Happy birthday. Birthday just realizing they did it right around her birthday um but

0:15:58 Lydia: Even still god yeah

0:17:45 Matt: There is an allegation that she has previously listed 1981 as her birth date in other places um I don't know that I don'T think that's true I donT have any proof that she has ever personally arranged for 1981 to be listed as a birthday it would make a difference because the thing that nobody seems to understand about this story is there's a difference between naturalization by operation of law where you just automatically become a citizen if you meet certain conditions and naturalization by application and she would have clearly qualified if she just applied but her father thought that she qualified by naturalization of law and naturalization by operation of law isn't even application it's really just here's everything I'm going to lay out the factors I think that I qualify to be a citizen without without applying because I was living with my parents I was a permanent resident one of my parents naturalized and that's it I'm automatic yeah

0:18:26 Thomas: You're thinking you back up a second though maybe we but so I don't know anything about how she's a citizen at all or whatever this is so can you can you back so it sounds like you're saying so she wasn't born here right so okay and so what's the immigration story

0:18:38 Matt: We're in somalia and her family came as refugees so her family became as refugees when she was a child, and she naturalized it in 2000. Now, we don't know when her father naturalized. Her father is now deceased. He died of COVID in 2020. And so that's another reason that the search warrant is very strange. And she would have been a permanent resident after she came as a refugee and then eligible to go on to citizenship five years after the residency. But her father filed this application saying, can you confirm that she was naturalized by operation of law? And based on the evidence before them they gave her a naturalization certificate without having to go through the process because that's how it works if you're minor your parent naturalizes you live with your parent that's it it's pretty simple um

0:19:21 Thomas: So it's like a way to bypass but you're doing like a hey just making sure that this counted or something

0:19:25 Matt: And it's not really an application yeah it's not the same as applying and coming forward and taking the oath right and they keep talking about how she took the oath which she didn't if she did it this way which is fine I mean it's just how it but just a minor difference right so

0:19:34 Thomas: So if you if you made a mistake on the birth year of that one which come on like I my kids were just born five minutes ago and I could make a mistake about their birth year on a thing lydia's messed up their names many times

0:19:47 Lydia: Got remy's middle name wrong like for an international flight and they were like we can't let you on the plane because that's not his name

0:19:53 Thomas: Mixed Next up, Remy and Arlo's middle names.

0:19:56 Lydia: It was it was bad they'd

0:19:56 Matt: It's important uh

0:19:57 Thomas: And so is that what we're talking about here? There's a birth year on that where it's like, because the purpose of the birth year in that would likely just be to confirm who you're talking About, right?

0:20:08 Matt: Well it would matter if you're doing naturalization by operation of law, because you have to have been under 18 when your parent naturalized. So their argument is that he was over 18.

0:20:18 Thomas: It's for that. Okay. I thought I didn't, you didn't say that. Okay. So it's just, sorry, we need the whole picture of what's going on. So it was not merely the year is different for no reason. It's that it would have gotten her under this year limit. And do we know that for sure like based on when the application wasn't all that who's

0:20:34 Matt: So we don't know because, again, if you assume that her birth date is the one she says it is, which I do, that it's 1982, then yes, it looks like that would have been fine, and as long as her father had actually naturalized before that point, which he would have been if he'd been applying, but we don't know her her father's naturalization information. That's going to come up pretty big as we'll see. There's another dodge they're using here to make it look like they know something. But let's pull up very quickly that, yeah,

0:20:57 Thomas: They because like what doesn't wouldn't immigration whatever have this information like what I don't understand this man okay

0:21:02 Lydia: Have those records right it's

0:21:04 Matt: That's where the search warrant makes no sense to me because they have everything they need or they should have everything they need in their own files and they can get that. I also want to point out, it is, no, it absolutely is. And I'm going to prove that I don't think that there's any reason a judge should have signed off on this. We'll get there by the end. But But the other important thing to note is that in Somalia, as of 1991, there are no birth certificates for a very long period of time. They destroyed whatever office had them, and then there was a period of chaos where there were no birth certificate. So she would not be able to distinctively prove, and it's also possible I've met people that aren't even really sure what their birth year is. Refugees, it does happen. It does happen, so

0:21:12 Lydia: For political theater that that's what I mean yeah sean

0:21:41 Thomas: And let me just clarify what this thing about the birth year do we knows that any of that happened or we're just talking about what they've made up or what they've decided I this information coming from like why do we go ahead okay

0:21:52 Matt: I'm going from best available evidence. And we should probably just hear Benny Johnson talk about it so I can explain why he's wrong. Wrong. Make a quick stop at The Federalist, though, because we can't not read The Federalists for just a moment. We've got our very own Sean Fleetwood writing The Federalistic, one of our many young unqualified...

0:22:00 Thomas: Who's

0:22:06 Lydia: Fleetwood yep we've talked about them before yeah yeah yeah

0:22:07 Thomas: That yeah I could guess that I don't remember who that is though we

0:22:12 Matt: So we're not going to read the whole thing, but the headline really tells you what you need to know here about this piece.

0:22:16 Thomas: Melted down great great headline the news is that we melted down and then it's like here's what it was about cool good news no

0:22:19 Matt: I'm doing it right now.

0:22:18 Lydia: Dems melt down over dems meld down over feds omar search after praising biden's Mar-a-Lago raid yeah omar

0:22:31 Matt: The same thing. So now that we've all reconstituted ourselves from melting down uh

0:22:36 Lydia: Predictably cast monday search on her estate as quote an attempt to target political enemies and weaponize federal law enforcement a talking point quickly adopted by jeffries and fellow democrats but such rhetoric is a significant departure from democrat's gleeful response to the biden fbi's 2022 raid on Mar-a-Lago which came as part of jack smith's illegal classified documents lawfare against trump

0:22:51 Thomas: It's not I'm so tired of this can we retire this as well if

0:23:00 Lydia: This is very exhausting I just that entire paragraph is so dumb I

0:23:02 Matt: Know exactly

0:23:04 Thomas: You don't like when I I actually murder someone then why did you like like it when we said someone murdered someone who didn't murder someone I thought it's like what yeah they've

0:23:14 Matt: And they're gonna say this yep same thing about roca hana in the next paragraph you get the idea you can go a little further obviously there was extreme probable cause for the fbi to raid mar -o -laco and we still don't know what this was about this um discussing abuse of power etc etc I just want to give you the idea this is the only take that I could find from the right-wing media sphere that's in writing so far they've got plenty of video takes so I just wanted to point it out yeah that's right nobody reads it anyway um all melting down we'reallhypocrites and we should have supported you know the uh wrongfully accused donald trump um

0:23:38 Thomas: Stopped writing yeah and again trump was not that the Mar-a-Lago one was not right after like he wasn't running yet was he yeah he wasn'T running he wasnT I mean mean also it was real so it was real they actually recovered look if this turned out that they recovered you know 12 kilos of pure cocaine I don't know heroin something from Ilhan Omar's place and then okay yeah I guess it was a real crime yeah but if it's fucking nothing like it probably is and like why now yeah

0:23:55 Lydia: Think so no then we get it yeah yeah you don't have kamala harris going on a podcast afterwards and being like we're really looking forward to building our case against trump after we've seized everything from mar -a -lago yeah

0:24:27 Matt: Before

0:24:26 Thomas: Imagine yeah and imagine being like yeah there's no proof of anything we know he did we know trump stole documents we know he stole documents but we gotta build the case like imagine if kamala harris had said that to the good comparison yeah before the raid exactly ridiculous

0:24:39 Matt: The raid I mean in that that case right yeah even worse uh no so just a little taste there for you of uh sean fleetwood let's uh take a break and come back to that's

0:24:47 Lydia: We'll both sides this out for you sean fleetwood we'll keep going we'll keep doing the comparison see how you like it

0:24:50 Matt: Right we should break and comes back to benny johnson unfortunately sorry to do that I don't either yeah

0:24:55 Lydia: I don't wanna also

0:24:57 Thomas: But we can uh feel better by thanking our second batch of patrons thank you too probably a real person nick fish happier one who is more awesome aoc or mom donnie that's happy or true but no

0:25:12 Lydia: New york you guys are so lucky like

0:25:14 Thomas: Kidding I'm I'm gonna like I love aoc but I gotta say mom donnie it might be mom donny

0:25:21 Matt: If you're going by awesome points right now yeah he's got more

0:25:23 Thomas: Just like trending like trending awesome yeah he's just killing it just killing it uh but part of that is like he's the mayor he gets to do stuff like that like one member of the house like she for in terms of what we got to get in sports statistics you know know replace above replacement you know in terms of accomplishments relative to what she can do as one member of the house she's done a lot but it might be ma 'am donnie though uh a negative phenomenon lottistic adhd wants to pursue paralegal paralegal is that at

0:25:25 Matt: Just consistently yeah yeah all

0:25:25 Lydia: I know I know yeah I

0:25:56 Matt: Right

0:25:56 Thomas: The end okay nice do it you gotta fight for your right to ex parte uh Jaysank vml emphatically stating patreon sucks and and upside down clown face did

0:26:07 Lydia: Feel like they didn't maybe they got separated rated what

0:26:08 Thomas: They get separated or the next one is guy what guy brush threepwood mighty pirate what I

0:26:18 Matt: Well That's an easy one. You guys don't remember The Secret of Monkey Island? The old Lucas game? You guys didn't play any of those old games?

0:26:23 Thomas: Don't know what's happening right now matt no no

0:26:28 Matt: Oh, God of Brass 3 put.

0:26:24 Lydia: I didn't play games no

0:26:30 Matt: Okay, alright. I'll just keep

0:26:31 Thomas: All my games were the ones in uh widow's bay that he gets in the hotel uh teeth or whatever

0:26:36 Matt: Patrons, you keep throwing them at me. I'm here for it. Star Trek and video games all day. I can get them.

0:26:42 Lydia: Matt matt did you watch widow's bay yet

0:26:44 Thomas: You gotta watch widow's bae no

0:26:45 Matt: It's great. Yeah, I loved it.

0:26:46 Thomas: Yeah I don't know I said those were my my games were the board games he finds in the in the motel or dad's mad or whatever like so so bad god that show ruled uh let's see today's episode is brought to you by the letter nothing David Souther Thomas Freeman Cajunkilla cavalri Fraud Fishy Hates Everything Chris Simpson How do I get into the top 3rd? Anonymous Aquila and Check out www.galenacomic.com for a cool webcomic uh that's it thanks so much to our middle group of top patrons and

0:26:46 Lydia: Okay yeah yeah we're just talking about the game teeth yeah and the hotel yeah

0:26:50 Matt: All the games in that. It's so good. So good.

0:27:01 Lydia: Top third

0:27:20 Thomas: We'll take a break

0:27:20 Lydia: You're getting closer and closer keep it up all

0:27:21 Thomas: They're getting closer and closer all right we'll taking a break and get to back to douchebag whichever one I don't even remember oh JD Vance good freeze flame uh matt what does we're going now uh to the Russian news outlet to see what they have to say about all this hey

0:27:28 Lydia: Of them yeah

0:27:33 Matt: Steel. Wow. Yeah. So this is this week from Benny Johnson, pretty much on the heels of the raid. I just wanted to play a clip here so you can see how Benny does his research and how he puts the show together that millions of people apparently watch. I don't know. It's pretty depressing. But he's going to explain his understanding of the facts and the legal issues in the Ilana Marquez.

0:27:58 Thomas: Matt, I know uh you were having a problem with a lot of tabs but uh are all of your tabs just X? Look at the tabs that he has open oh you can't see it oh no okay here let me show you this look

0:28:06 Lydia: Can't see because you're zoomed in yeah oh

0:28:06 Matt: He does show a lot of expose in this.

0:28:12 Thomas: At that literally all of the tabs are just x oh

0:28:15 Matt: This whole thing.

0:28:16 Lydia: I would stress out so much about which tab to hit when

0:28:18 Thomas: And then like like daily mail I forget what that one is Fox News what's that what's that one do you remember it's like a t yeah but anyway that imagine if you that imagine if that's what your tabs were open format instead of whatever you're doing yeah that is this research all right more

0:28:23 Lydia: Not sure so

0:28:31 Matt: That's your research. Yep.

0:28:37 Clip: Entertaining okay fine accuse us of being entertaining but we ain't lying to you because we have done the legwork here more than I think any other show on earth our show has gone out into the great wild and beyond and gotten the goods on Ilhan Omar very quickly very quick summary here is Markwayne Mullin last month telling us that Ilhan Omar married her brother we we know that she married her her brother to try to bring him in the United States whoa okay here's JD Vance telling us this summer that Ilhan Omar committed immigration fraud that could be nearing your brother that could also mean other

0:28:47 Thomas: Twitter tabs and oh so that was from

0:29:18 Clip: Forms of immigration problem we'll get to that in just one second uh can you give us an update on that yeah so we actually think that Ilhan definitely committed immigration fraud against the United States of America okay and then he says me and Stephen Miller work on how to fix that here's us with Tom Holman on stage also this summer and Tom Holman tells us Ilhan Omar is going to get it can you fill us in do you know what's going to happen is the Trump administration going to go there the floor is yours the whole file is being reviewed a lot of smart people are on it stay tuned

0:29:18 Thomas: This summer okay wow yeah

0:29:29 Matt: QED. This is evidence. This is all evidence.

0:30:01 Thomas: Oh

0:30:02 Clip: And then of course we have done numerous segments on this program including Liz Collin who will be joining us live in just one second who talked about and this shocked me because I hadn't heard it really explained this way, that Ilhan Omar may well not be an American citizen. Now, here's the backup for that, because we didn't have it ready for the last time that we talked with Liz.

0:30:04 Thomas: Well thanks he liked my joke we're

0:30:24 Matt: Let's look at the backup.

0:30:25 Clip: You can see here that Ilhan Omar, according to the documentation before Ilhan Omar rapidly had it changed, he was listed as an 18 -year -old, meaning she's an adult, when her war war criminal father got naturalized, so she was able to slip in as a minor when she wasn't. She claimed to be 17, and she retroactively went back and changed her birth date in order to show that she was 17 when she was retroactively given citizenship under her war criminal father.

0:30:23 Thomas: Still okay rapidly had it changed war

0:31:00 Matt: Pause for just a sec. So first of all, yeah, no, he's not a war criminal. There's no evidence of that whatsoever. He was in the Somali military in the 70s, but there's no evidence at all. And again, I want to point out that there's no way to know if the person that their second husband was her brother because again, no birth certificates. And there's never been a DNA test. And this is an unfounded rumor that was posted in a Somali chat group basically.

0:31:02 Thomas: Criminal father father but if if it was to get him over here wouldn't he be a citizen that we could go check

0:31:31 Matt: So he's back in the UK. It sounds like he's only here for a couple of years. And I'm guessing they divorced or split up.

0:31:36 Thomas: So that didn't get him citizenship okay

0:31:39 Matt: So they split up because they would would have been in the two-year marriage period right and so if he went back from what I saw they married I think 2008 2009 he went to the uk in 2011

0:31:46 Thomas: But I guess you're answering as though like yeah this is like normal like an ex but like if this is her brother she's marrying him to get him here so he'd be here right

0:31:58 Lydia: Then why wouldn't he be here exactly

0:32:00 Thomas: But what you're describing sounds like just an ex -husband yeah

0:32:01 Lydia: Which

0:32:00 Matt: He left because he just didn't like it I don't know a marriage exactly that's right and they have a conspiracy theory about how he actually was still in minnesota and not actually in the uk and that they can prove it but whatever yeah he's just down the street

0:32:04 Lydia: Is what happened it's a great point oh of course send nick shirley over

0:32:06 Thomas: Just so we're all clear yeah to your point I love that he's doing the research is like here's all the times I talked to the fascists who said she did something wrong that's

0:32:14 Lydia: There he'll find him exactly exactly it's

0:32:16 Matt: For sure yep yep that's journalism folks

0:32:24 Lydia: Just because he wants to watch himself that's it yeah from

0:32:25 Thomas: Just different times of you getting the lies from like from the administration that's nothing man

0:32:30 Lydia: People in the administration yeah interesting

0:32:32 Matt: So I want to note what he's showing on the screen right now as evidence. On the left, he's got, and again, you can't really see very closely, but there was some website that listed her birthday, and it was like an official legislative website.

0:32:41 Thomas: It looks like it's the yeah minnesota legislative reference

0:32:44 Matt: And it listed it as 81. It could have been a complete mistake. Then who knows if she put that information in? I doubt it, personally. And then this other thing, the certificate of a nonnon-existence of a record from DHS, right? So that really doesn't tell us anything. They're relying hard on this. So basically, you can ask non non-existence.

0:32:45 Thomas: Maybe certificate of non -existence of a record

0:33:00 Matt: You can get a certificate of non-existence. Isn't that funny? That's what we call it.

0:33:04 Thomas: I'd love one of those

0:33:04 Matt: Hey, do I not exist? Because you can't get somebody else's naturalization records, you could get them to confirm whether or not there is a naturalization record for this person. All this says is that the person that they're searching for, for her dad, doesn't have a naturalization record, but that's it. It. And then what they did is they searched under what they believed to be the name that he naturalized under with what they believe to be his birthday, right? But if you don't have that information right, then if you didn't do it exactly correct, then they're going to say there's no record under that name of birthday.

0:33:19 Thomas: For her dad okay yeah so but this is again these idiots this is treating it like the administration is a podcaster which I know it is but they have this stuff right like that it would have been oh we went in and instantly found that her father wasn't ever naturalized so so the jig is up right if

0:33:54 Matt: Yeah. And the other issue here is the statute of limitations. And he's not going to talk about that, of course, because he doesn't know that. Two things. So there's just assuming, well, let's just assume that what they're saying is correct and that she did obtain her naturalization because her father cut some some corners and put her as younger on there when she could have just applied herself first of all the statute of limitations on that is is only five years uh for an actual crime it's 10 years for denaturalization so for criminal denaturalization so there's both criminal and civil denaturalization what I'm really wondering is why a judge signed off on the search warrant and I guess we'll find out soon enough and it's very likely that maybe this had nothing to do with any of those things and it's just some, you know, like a Letitia James or James Comey kind of nonsense right of like they just find something else or they're going to say that there's some statement that she she made recently in which she allegedly lied about being a citizen or how she got it um or the fact that she ran for office knowing she wasn't a citizen was a crime which certainly could be um those are my guesses but even if that she was last elected in 2019 so that's outside the five years she's yeah she

0:34:52 Thomas: You run for office it's one thing to say running knowing you're not a citizen but she is a citizen would but how would that legally be like again just hypothetically for these assholes if there was this whatever paperwork thing that her dad and not even her probably did and let's say it was wrong she's still a citizen so if she ran she ran as a citizen right yeah

0:34:59 Matt: Is yeah playing it out right right that's right and she there would have to be that you knew that you got it through fraud and the whole time you've just been walking around telling people you're a citizen and certainly I mean I have met at least one person who paid paid off an INS agent to get citizenship. It does happen. That guy's walking around knowing that he's not supposed to have a U.S. passport. Again, that was in the 80s. It was a lot easier to do back then.

0:35:36 Thomas: So like everything he does is a crime like ah you cross the street while thinking you're a citizen geez all

0:35:39 Matt: But basically at this point, yeah. But certainly voting and everything else, right? So now just because you were a minor, and remember, I think we've talked about this before, the immigration system actually defines minors as under 21, not under 18. But for the purpose of this thing, for naturalization by operation of law, you have to be able to prove of that you were under 18 at the time when your parent naturalized so that's the really important key point here but it would have to be a willful enough representation and her father prepared the thing that that's what they're saying is that he filled it out her father's now deceased can't be a witness in this so

0:36:10 Thomas: You do it when the father naturalizes I thought you said there was a time limit or he does it whenever he right

0:36:15 Matt: When he naturalizes if you're under 18 if you query that you know you manage to do it before the child is 18 then they automatically become citizens and right

0:36:24 Thomas: When you're natural okay I got you that makes sense

0:36:25 Matt: You just have to prove it by putting in this form and that'll do it um a

0:36:29 Lydia: Said though that she signed the paperwork though so theoretically I mean if she were over 18 and then like she would still be responsible in that sense for having reviewed it and signed something that was inaccurate yeah that

0:36:40 Matt: Court could consider yeah there's no automatic exclusion just because you're a minor but they could certainly consider her age and the fact that her father put this in front of her and said just go ahead and sign this so you can become a citizen you know maybe

0:36:49 Thomas: But to lydia's point she wouldn't have been a minor if they were lying if

0:36:50 Lydia: Would make her 18 at the time when she signed it

0:36:52 Matt: She would have been a minor for immigration purposes because you're under 21 but but you know for other purposes maybe the judge could still find that but still 18 is still you know you're living at home you're still under your parents roof you know um and again just assuming the statute of limitations hadn't run which it has for criminal criminal denaturalization because they're obsessed with denaturalizing her over this you have to go to show beyond a reasonable doubt that she knowingly procured citizenship contrary to law now here's the problem she could have actually just done it a different way and there's case law on this recently from the Supreme Court that I think it's um the name will come back to me a minute but it's

0:36:53 Thomas: She was oh for immigration purposes okay yeah yeah yeah hmm recent case law and it's not terrible right

0:37:25 Matt: Not terrible it's basically if you had some other way that you could have gotten citizenship then it doesn't really matter um it has to be that this was how you did it that this fraud is the only way that you could have possibly procured it basically yeah

0:37:30 Thomas: I like that rule that makes sense I mean I could think of some weird things about that but it's like especially if we're talking about something that might be a mistake or close enough you know I guess if it's like super fraudulent it would be weird you'd be like hey you could have just just done this other thing it's weird that you did all this fraud but okay no harm no foul I don't know yeah

0:37:50 Matt: And it's a shortcut yeah yeah but you know it's just really important to remember is when people are talking about this story that there's a difference between affirmatively applying for citizenship and confirming this is firming versus confirming with the federal government that you did get it by operation of law and there are a lot there are people I've met them they're walking around right now they're full adults 40s and 50s and older that are actually citizens and didn't know it because they didn't realize this law applied to them. So we can still work and get it.

0:38:15 Lydia: It's almost like a recognition that the system is really complex and for people to make mistakes it's understandable because what we have built is complicated and unreasonable in a lot of ways yeah

0:38:28 Matt: And the other thing is maybe if they could prove that the refugee status, that they lied to get refugee status. I don't really know how that would work when the parent is dead because you can't inform him of that and she's the sins of the fathers literally at that that point um see

0:38:39 Thomas: That's there's that can't be anything yeah so what if okay so then putting your fascist hat on matt so the the great point you've made several times over the course of this is what the fuck are they searching for uh we're trying to find if your dad's in there or something or your brother you know but like a judge did sign off now we've known those judges aren't always like the most I don't know careful about that kind of thing but is it more likely in your mind that this just has nothing to do with this or well it is immigration because it was in uh it's

0:38:58 Lydia: HSI

0:39:16 Matt: It was HSI so is this the investigator part of ICE that that is makes me wonder but you know DOJ got the search warrant I don't know I

0:39:18 Thomas: Just yeah that's right but what so it's not so it definitely related to immigration but is Is it, if you had to put your money on it, would it be all your immigration lawyer winnings, just your pile of gold from being an immigration attorney that you make, would you bet on it being just an unrelated thing or is there something you'd guess they'd be searching for related to these conspiracy theories?

0:39:46 Matt: Will say just just so we have this on the record that Fox News was told by an anonymous source that this has to do with the naturalization thing um and my guess would be that they're doing it to harass her weeks before an election and that they they presented something that looks like probable cause to the judge that that she had somehow relied on this in a way, knowing that she'd willfully procured it illegally.

0:39:57 Thomas: But so, yeah, I'm asking, what would that be? Like, what could you be searching for?

0:40:05 Matt: That would be, well, running for office, like I said. Anything else? Or maybe there's emails where she's saying, I'm just saying, maybe there was communications where she says, ha ha, I know I was born in 1981. I got away with it, and I always will.

0:40:08 Thomas: What Could you be Searching for? Okay. Yeah you

0:40:16 Matt: You know, maybe in the course of this, they're hoping to incidentally, right?

0:40:17 Lydia: Like

0:40:16 Thomas: Could just do that with a judge hey judge we're just any guy random person we're searching because there might be an email that says haha I'm the zodiac killer or something like was that can you do that you're not supposed to be able to yeah

0:40:30 Lydia: A gallery wall of her brother husband like just you know

0:40:33 Matt: I don't want to speculate too much more on what this could be, but it is very strange because the alternative, the only way they can denaturalize her is through civil denaturalization proceedings. And that has no statute of limitations, but it still is a very high bar, and you still have to go in front of an actual judge, not an immigration judge, and you have to be able to show that it was procured, illegally procured or by concealment of material fact or by willful misrepresentation.

0:40:55 Thomas: It wouldn't involve a search warrant would it or could it for a civil yeah

0:40:59 Matt: It shouldn't. I was looking into that too. I can't see how a civil denitralization proceeding would get you there because it has to be probable cause of a crime. And I'm going to reserve, I'm gonna hold on this, but obviously I and well

0:41:06 Thomas: I know I'm just asking what kinds of things and I guess you know to your yeah

0:41:13 Matt: But one more point I will say that this is a Minnesota federal judge we know how they feel about ICE at this point right so we also know that ICE in Minnesota has a particular habit of lying in affidavits to judges so who knows who knows I mean we've caught them doing it quite a few times now right

0:41:25 Thomas: So it's just kind of too hard to know because there's too many variables there like some who could be lying who could you know the judge could be shitty yeah

0:41:31 Lydia: Feels

0:41:31 Matt: And it's an anonymous source that told fox this right so maybe it is something completely different and they're investigating for election stuff or whatever this is within I will point out the 60 days when DOJ is not supposed to be moving against people um who are facing election but she doesn't have a serious contender as I understand it but she still is up for you know a final election in november yeah it's very strange that's

0:41:52 Thomas: It's so weird yeah this is I mean isn't this criminal the other way you can't just do this to people I don't know is

0:41:59 Matt: Why I want to talk about it it's really bad and also just to make the point and just in case people have been keeping up I thought this was obvious but I want to be sure that everybody understands this uh this is part of the effort to associate Somalis with fraud especially in Somalis in Minnesota which is a massive Somali community and you can hear Benny Johnson and others in these conversations are just openly talking about how all Somalis are fraudsters, and this just proves that, and she's sort of the queen of it. There's one more thing in the Benny Johnson thing, if you just want to put it back on, I'm very sorry, for just a moment, and

0:42:00 Lydia: Like it and

0:42:24 Clip: Ilhan Omar isn't an American citizen then, legally, so her entire existence in this This country is fraudulent, not just the marriage to her brother. Ladies and gentlemen, President Trump has also shared our commentary on Ilhan Omar. He shared our review of Ilhan Omar's finances. And we went deep into the rabbit hole of IlHAN Omar's businesses and found them all to be fraudulent. And President Trump shared saying, well, when will be the arrests, please? The arrests were today.

0:42:53 Matt: The ex -rabbit hole.

0:42:57 Thomas: Can't make shit like this up the

0:42:58 Clip: The arrests are today. Day president trump has said he wants to deport ilhan omar by the way in case you're wondering what this is all angling towards okay so

0:43:01 Thomas: Arrest no no was she arrested what's

0:43:05 Matt: She was not arrested.

0:43:20 Thomas: Wrong with his nose yeah

0:43:21 Matt: So, just want to point out, he's getting the facts, their stupid lies wrong. He's saying she came into the country by marrying her brother, it's the other way around, allegedly. And I just want you to address that too very quickly, that the statute of limitations on that would, as well as the long run, even if you think that's a crime and it would only be deportable potentially if she'd done it within five years um potentially depending on how they charge it of residency sorry um so we're talking we're way past that so the brother thing they keep throwing out I think is a red herring because I don't think there's any probable cause that could go toward an actual offense on that um that they can charge no no there's no charge

0:43:40 Thomas: Of now or yeah

0:43:51 Lydia: She wasn't arrested right it was just this

0:43:49 Thomas: Yeah he said the arrests have happened like what oh someone literally in his comments she was not arrested on the screen of this uh thing yeah

0:44:01 Lydia: Welcome

0:43:55 Matt: Yeah and just a couple more things just just for another minute or so I hate to keep watching this but just this whole I've never actually watched benny johnson before I never want to again but he's like cackling in like a really weird jokery way all the way through yeah I know you have to watch it for work all the time um it's

0:44:11 Lydia: To the club matt yeah yeah interesting

0:44:12 Thomas: I'm surprised he got viewers when the Russian data center was down it's kind of interesting did you saying there's more to play or are you gonna okay yeah they're

0:44:23 Matt: Another few minutes here sadly a little more just

0:44:26 Lydia: Engaging

0:44:27 Clip: This is the angle for president trump and then ilhanomar's home raided by federal investigation agents for homeland security this morning in an immigration raid absolutely criminal look at this look at this thank you Klein Klein just this is a live shot Klein just like Klein of course has carte blanche as a producer of this program to break in at any time let's look it looks like the federal agents are actually engaging here potentially making an arrest again

0:44:31 Matt: Looking at headlines to

0:44:59 Lydia: What

0:44:55 Matt: Show guys walking around they're walking on the sidewalk they're getting back in their cars amazing

0:45:02 Thomas: Just they're literally like

0:45:03 Clip: A live shot at least what was that like a dozen federal agents coming out of Ilhan Omar's house

0:45:03 Lydia: They're gonna go to lunch getting

0:45:04 Thomas: They're turning off their body cams one stepped on some dog shit and scraping it off on the curb wow

0:45:13 Lydia: In their car and going away oh

0:45:16 Clip: Incredible our

0:45:16 Thomas: They must be going to arrest her somewhere else

0:45:17 Clip: Best in class production team is live and ready to go we won't miss a second of the raid thank you for breaking in there and that interlude I appreciate I do sincerely like if if you see anything if ilhan al -hargis dragged out in cuffs put that on screen all

0:45:21 Matt: I just want to point out his his next source.

0:45:23 Thomas: Sorry how racist how

0:45:33 Lydia: My god this guy's crazy

0:45:33 Thomas: Racist do you have to be but

0:45:35 Matt: It's awful.

0:45:35 Clip: I want to get through I want to get though here really quickly before jumping over to liz

0:45:36 Matt: Check out what he's doing.

0:45:38 Thomas: That's ai right oh grok

0:45:39 Lydia: Grok

0:45:40 Matt: This is Grack. He's putting up Grack, and he's just going to read from it. That's his next resource, is Grac. I just want to point that out. One of his many X tabs. Then he's going to talk like he's talking. I don't think he even knows he has Grack up.

0:45:51 Thomas: You don't think he knows he has grok f oh

0:45:52 Matt: I do not know, because he is reading from it directly.

0:45:55 Thomas: Like this is his research here

0:45:56 Matt: Yes, it is clearly Grack . You can look up in the bar, and you can see it.

0:45:59 Thomas: Yeah no it's definitely grok but does is that is he fine with that he's probably

0:46:00 Lydia: I bet you he's fine with it honestly considering his other source is himself you know and his interviews so

0:46:06 Matt: More than fine. Yes .

0:46:09 Thomas: This is probably using him as it's a circle jerk like grok is probably quoting him out of him

0:46:15 Matt: That is That's right. So yeah, we'll keep following this story, obviously. I think there may be some surprises, but they're not going to be like ground -shaking revelations. I think they're just going to more of the James Comey, Letitia James type surprises that they're finding some way to lie about them.

0:46:28 Thomas: Like surprising that you could get a judge to do this hey I got a new policy wouldn't we take over which is never every single judge you signed off on a bullshit like this you just know no more judge you don't no more judgment more impeach them all that if it's federal judges they could theoretically do that right if we had the numbers we don't but it's like this is the kind of thing that like if you are helping if you're complicit with the fascism of trying to arrest your opponents for no reason and trying to to mess with them like I wish like if we could get get the numbers someday it would be nice that would be real justice it won't happen

0:47:03 Lydia: The exception if the government just lied like straight applied to the judge right within the affidavits

0:47:06 Thomas: That's that's true well I

0:47:07 Matt: Which is very possible. And you know, again, I just want to close this bare minding, everybody. This is a sitting representative who's facing re -election. And the president appears to be orchestrating some sort of investigation to you know to discredit her weeks before and I'm not aware of anything like this ever happening before maybe it did maybe nixon maybe lbj did things like this who knows but uh it is really bad so I thought we should spend some time on it at

0:47:29 Thomas: If we ever get what do you think we'll get matt do you think we're getting the warrant or the whatever the you know I think we get any of that doesn't doesn't

0:47:36 Matt: Some point it's got to come out I mean if they if they actually indict uh yeah I guess she should and we'll see we'll say um nothing's released yet we're pretty we're early into this story as we're recording so we'll just have to wait a

0:47:43 Lydia: She should release it yeah nice

0:47:38 Thomas: She have to get it or no yeah hmm interesting okay oh boy all right well we've got to take that last break and thank our last group of amazing, our top patrons, the top of the top. Here we go. Bob Loblaw's Law.... Podcast. Philly Basement Bar says we should take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. E.T., Elect Thomas Smith President, American Honkytonk Bar Association. Baltakatei. Philip Kizer. Those Cornell students needed sentences not essays. A string of unpronounceable characters. Malaika Chandler. David in Brooklyn. RhondaTheDork.com. Milo Meadsong. Rouges the plural form of footnote kind of like attorneys general should be notes feetsies Chris Waltrip Big Easy Blasphemy hors d'oeuvres in the court before we report Sam Donow Classic libtard FRED R GROOTHUIS and Mitchell thanks so much you're the best top patrons last break and then we've got what Matt a

0:48:34 Lydia: Denmark

0:48:37 Matt: Quick read from the american conservative I think you'll enjoy that's

0:48:40 Thomas: Bit of vapidity to god vapidness all right yeah right here we go the american conservative america can learn from denmark on good government wait sorry what what what's happening right now matt this

0:48:43 Lydia: Ain't so bad take

0:48:43 Matt: Right I think this was accidentally published in the American Conservative and they do

0:48:58 Thomas: Just in conservatives we just discovered there are other countries huge news yeah who's peter Van Buren sorry good yeah

0:49:02 Matt: Things well uh so I keep uh he's a pretty straight up and down conservative commentator as you have to be to write in the American Conservative uh so let's just read a bit of this I'll give you a little sample uh let's start at the beginning yep

0:49:11 Thomas: What

0:49:14 Lydia: I was sitting in a coffee shop in Copenhagen Denmark ruining my vacation for about the hundredth time I found myself calculating how much the trip was costing and whether as a retiree I had saved enough not to outlive my money at the end of life I was likely to face tens of thousands of nursing nursing home expenses, with years of increasing medical expenses on the way down. Then there was inflation and the tottering social security and medicare situations to worry about. My expensive coffee was getting cold. I looked around the room.

0:49:20 Thomas: What sorry hold on I just need to check I know that I make this joke a lot but were you visited by three ghosts what what how did this get published like you basically the start of this is boy you know how every aspect of american life under trump and capitalism fucking sucks anyway I'm a conservative

0:49:57 Lydia: And it's continuous stress for the rest of my life as a result.

0:50:00 Thomas: Why can't I x out of that advertisement the x does nothing okay go ahead I

0:50:04 Lydia: I look around the rooms and I'm like, I don't know what to do. I look at the room full of Danes and realize something. No matter what else, not a single one of them could be worrying about anything close to what I was thinking about every dane gets free universal health care free public schools and universities pensions generous unemployment insurance and more or less cost -free elder care huh

0:50:21 Thomas: Don't know if anyone's ever made this meme but uh perhaps you two will appreciate you know in the labyrinth when the muppets are all waiting for her to say the right phrase so that so that David Bowie can take the baby or whatever and they're like that's that's us waiting for like this conservative like Like, are you going to say that maybe universal health care is the way to go and some other stuff?

0:50:41 Lydia: And just like Sarah in the labyrinth he'll fumble it for a second probably I'm sure uh the mom looking at at pastries enjoys heavily subsidized child care. The things that shadowed my life, such as paying for child care and then trying to figure out how to pay for my kids' college without leaving them burdened with lifelong student loans, were not a factor here. Was I going to doom myself to tax hell by withdrawing from the Roth IRA and traditional IRA in the wrong order? Do I have to pay someone to advise me on how to Access my own money saved over a lifetime, decades in which I denied myself and my family so there would be something left over at the end. I was not a happy guy. I approached the mom for someone to talk to. She was curious to meet a tourist, and like most people I met, friendly and open. The presumptions that govern a stranger approaching you in a big American city did not apply. I asked her if she was happy, and she replied that indeed she and most Danes were. I looked it up later. Four of the

0:51:08 Thomas: Just look that up. For example,

0:51:37 Lydia: Five happiest nations, yeah, right? Four of the five happiest nations on earth are nordic countries with Denmark at number two. The U.S. is down at 24th, with Afghanistan understandably ranking globally as the unhappiest place. I wanted to know why Danes might be so happy. I turned the topic to one of my biggest worries, health care, attracting the attention of an older man nearby. Of course everyone spoke English. Denmark consistently ranks among the world's best non-native English-speaking countries, the product of an excellent public school system that starts foreign language training in first grade. I practically had them in tears laughing as I tried to explain how health care works in America with its HMOs,

0:51:38 Thomas: She wasn't carrying four guns. We just need every

0:52:16 Lydia: PPOs, Obamacare,

0:52:16 Thomas: Conservative to take one trip abroad. One trip abroad, please. What

0:52:22 Lydia: Medicare, co-pays, deductibles, in and out of network, and more. I told them that after paying Medicare taxes all my working life, I still had to pay several hundred dollars more each month in retirement, plus a new form of income tax called IRMAA for a health insurance system that covers most Americans Americans so incompletely that those who can't afford it have to buy private supplemental insurance as well as paying co-pays for most doctor visits. And this is after you figure out the Medicare system itself, a complex mess that requires you to choose among parts A through D, and if you don't sign up for Medicare, quote, on time, you will have a penalty attached to your premiums for the rest of your life. Then I tried to explain retirement.

0:52:59 Thomas: A great system.

0:53:00 Matt: Yeah. The best. Best. At all.

0:53:04 Lydia: It starts with choosing when to start collecting your Social Security. In America, if you take it at age 62, you get less money each month for more months versus age 70, when you get more money but for fewer months because you die. The cutoff age to balance the choices is somewhere around 80-something, so you have to make an irrevocable decision estimating your own death. There was a similar ghoulish calculation for my meager pension. I agreed to take less money each month, betting I'll die before my wife, leaving some for her as a widow So yeah,

0:53:32 Thomas: Fingers crossed. Yeah.

0:53:34 Matt: This is very well said, I have to say.

0:53:36 Thomas: I know. This should just be published in a real thing because this is, yeah.

0:53:37 Matt: One of the better pieces we've read. Yeah, imagine.

0:53:36 Lydia: In Denmark, every person gets health care. They usually pay nothing. Some do buy supplemental insurance for faster access to specialists, but it is generally through a nonprofit organization. Old age pensions are supported by a combination of taxes and mandatory occupational pension contributions. Together, the entire multi-level retirement system typically replaces over 70% of former wages. In the U.S., the average worker sees roughly 40% replaced by Social Security, higher lifetime earners, much lower. There are low rates of elderly poverty in Denmark. Significant retirement income comes from pre -funded, government -held occupational pension funds that you pay directly while working, alleviating the burden on future taxpayers. This is wholly unlike the American system, which may soon run out of money or reduce benefits to stay solvent. We pivoted to the big question of taxes. I'd read that if the U

0:53:48 Thomas: Perfect. Fine.

0:54:33 Lydia: .S. tax code were made into an audiobook, it would take roughly 19 days of continuous listening to finish. The entire code and associated regulations is over 4 million words long. Americans spend hours doing their taxes themselves, usually with the aid of expensive software, or spend hundreds of dollars or more paying CPAs and tax professionals to do the task for them. For Danes, the tax agency prepares an annual tax assessment using the information it has already received from banks, mortgage companies, investment firms, and the like. Taxpayers log into the government's online system and review the return, approving it electronically or, in rare cases, making changes. For most, the process takes only a few minutes and is stress-free. People, my table mates told me, tend to trust their government. Perhaps the most shocking thing I learned this day, Americans often don't appreciate that trust itself can be an economic asset.

0:54:33 Thomas: I'd read. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this part kind of bothers me. I mean, I think that there could be something done along this, but when you think of the things that are annoying in tax time, there's stuff that isn't solved by that. If you have a very simple tax situation where you're just filing the things that companies prepare for, because we have all the same info, like companies prepare all that info, send it to the government. It's just like one step different, I guess, which would be nice. They should still do that step, don't get me wrong. But I do think that it really, you'd have to change a lot about how our tax system works. And a lot of it is the process of trying to tax people and them getting around it and then having to write okay well no not that and then do like maybe

0:55:24 Lydia: Stop

0:55:47 Matt: This should happen.

0:56:00 Thomas: There is a way yeah I'm sure that maybe uh maybe Fred can comment because he's an expert on all this, Fred Grothius, but uh maybe there's... there's ways to overhaul it, but it's one of those things where this strikes me as a little too Elon Musk-esque to be like, why don't we just go in, just the whole, look at all these words, it's four million, just whatever. Yeah, this is the only talking point that I'm slightly hesitant, I'm sure there's good ways to do it, but like I feel like a lot of people have wanted to fix this problem and I think maybe we just need a totally different outlook on how taxes should work, but I don't know, a lot this is like a little bit pie in the sky, but that's okay, I

0:56:01 Lydia: It. Stop trying to run away. Yeah. Like most Americans, I assumed that the taxes must be crushing. I had to look up later how much Danes pay in taxes and try to compare it to the U.S. It is a complex question, but to try and bring some clarity to all this, Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development calculations set the average tax wedge Americans pay at about 30 percent. For Denmark, the same OECD study shows a single worker earning an average wage faces a tax wedge of 36%. But in return, Danes receive all the benefits mentioned above and more. By contrast, Americans pay for all of those things after taxes, in addition to the anxiety of not knowing if things will work out. Most Danes also get five or more weeks of paid vacation per year. I think the Danes are getting a better deal and that helps make them happy. Yeah, obviously. I was left angry about our system, our way of life actually, which places so much emphasis in the private sphere on

0:57:27 Thomas: Quit my job I'm no longer conservative I'm jumping off a bridge and or becoming a hippie yeah

0:57:29 Matt: Yeah seems like he's live quitting for the American conservative here. Yeah exactly.

0:57:35 Thomas: Is this a resignation nation letter to the american expert yeah yeah

0:57:38 Matt: It seems like it.

0:57:43 Lydia: Making the right choices or personally suffering the consequences, and in the public sphere on paying much for the comparatively little that we get. It is easy to see why Americans carry such a high psychological burden, especially especially financial stress, right until our deaths relieve us. God, so true. Most every financial decision seems to come with the possibility of ruining my future.

0:57:47 Thomas: Man

0:58:05 Lydia: That simply does not exist in the same way in places like Denmark.

0:58:04 Thomas: Can you please talk to a single other conservative like your friends family just spread the word man nobody's reading this so put this in a place where yeah

0:58:10 Lydia: Take them there. I know. Or the other Scandinavian countries, or to a lesser degree, even Canada or Japan. As our informal coffee club broke up, I wondered, why can't we Americans live this way? Walking back through rainy Copenhagen, I realized something. I hadn't spent the afternoon envying Denmark's architecture or museums or bicycle culture, all quite lovely. I envied something much simpler, the absence of constant financial fear. And one more thing, as I insisted on paying for my own coffee, I learned that tipping isn't expected in Denmark. What a way to live.

0:58:24 Thomas: Man

0:58:45 Matt: So there you go. I read this whole thing waiting for the twist. Waiting for him to be like, but America's still better obviously. Our conservative values are still better.

0:58:49 Thomas: Where's the is it oh it's april 4th is it april for no april april 4th april 1st yeah sorry my brain it's april first yeah why I say who's it

0:58:53 Matt: It's pretty close.

0:58:53 Lydia: April 1st. Thomas doesn't do holidays or pranks so april 1st misses on both accounts no

0:59:06 Thomas: It's able first no I'm

0:59:07 Matt: Yeah, so Peter

0:59:08 Lydia: It's not, yeah, September 14th, 2026 yeah rickroll at the bottom yeah I wonder

0:59:10 Thomas: Just yeah I'm like just I'm going through I'm trying to find something where they hacked is there anything no yeah

0:59:17 Matt: Van Buren, welcome to the resistance. That's all I can say. I don't know, I mean he's clearly like...

0:59:19 Thomas: Just everybody do this can we speaking of um taxpayer -funded programs can we fund sending every single conservative to denmark over time no

0:59:30 Lydia: Though is this like part of the natural progression of people like like you know they always say like as you age you know that no no no but like like when you are more conservative versus when you were like more progressive or liberal or whatever like you kind of see the change based on your age and like as people get older they tend to like be like when they're old old oh

0:59:35 Thomas: Get more conservative yeah let's say well that's historically how it's known it's like you're young and you're liberal and like maybe this will flip this over

0:59:53 Lydia: I was just thinking like like his points about yeah like elderly care like that being so expensive especially if you've alienated your kids and they're not going to want to help at all and you're on your own yeah

1:00:03 Thomas: That's when you triple down and you decide I'm going to vote for trump even harder than I used to just to yeah

1:00:06 Lydia: I guess so I guess so yeah

1:00:10 Matt: Realization that you're getting virtually nothing personally for your taxes while Danes are paying just a little bit more and getting everything, it has got to be worth something. I just really wonder why they even published this. I mean it doesn't have anything to say to to a conservative yeah

1:00:19 Thomas: I don't understand this. I'm like baffled. Is the American conservative actually a conservative? Like what's their other stuff? I'm just, yeah, crazy.

1:00:26 Matt: Yeah no it's it's not like my conservative but it's conservative it's you know um yeah no

1:00:33 Thomas: Roy Cohn, friend and American. Hmm. Federal agents. I am just looking at the other stuff. How Israel conquered the Latin American right. I don't know what that is exactly. What angle that is. Yeah I am trying trying to oh the tories still do not want to address immigration okay that sounds more like what I would think open borders do not fund schools is another headline you know yeah

1:00:33 Matt: So uh yeah oh

1:00:51 Lydia: I was yeah wondering also if part of this angle would be like immigration is bad you know like like yeah yeah I wonder like because the emphasis on how happy the nordic countries are and stuff and they also like traditionally are pretty crappy on immigration

1:01:05 Thomas: Wait we've got a competing article matt vance is right about socialism so maybe we yeah someday we could yeah

1:01:11 Matt: They're hard on socialism I mean they really I searched for the word socialism on their pay on their page and it's all like that kind of thing

1:01:16 Thomas: But that's the thing we just read though is socialism some amount of democratic socialism right well anyway what a what a delight I will have to follow that person see if they're fired if they ever write again that's uh that's it's so true we could spend all of all of media could spend time talking about how little we get and how much the freedom we think we have is a lie and uh american the best place to live out the american dream has not been america for a long time that's like officially like

1:01:21 Matt: Good work peter van buren good

1:01:43 Lydia: In every aspect too like it's not just oh like this one area we like really could get better on it's literally every single aspect of our country is done better in other countries

1:01:52 Thomas: All right well thanks matt uh so much for the breakdown. Thanks Lydia and thanks listeners. As always, we will see you on Friday.

1:02:02 Matt: Night yeah

1:02:05 Clip: This has been Opening Arguments, produced by Thomas and Lydia Smith, with editing help from Peter Baird. The intro is by Thomas Smith. This outro is by Matt Cameron. Support the show at patreon.com/law. Contact us through Patreon or openarguments@gmail.com. Make sure to follow our blue sky at OpenArgs. But most of all, please share the show. Thanks for listening.