WTW151: Remember the Anti-Woke Amazon? Yeah, Us Neither.

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:41 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Where There's Woke. I'm Thomas, that's Lydia. How you doing?

0:00:44 Lydia: Oh, you know, basking in the glory of things falling apart in MAGA world. Because it's actually, I don't know, there's like little bits of stuff happening.

0:00:51 Thomas: Was That A Thematic Hello

0:00:55 Lydia: I'm trying. I'm doing my best.

0:00:57 Thomas: Everyone Guys. Everyone, be real encouraging that was so good.

0:00:58 Lydia: Yes. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. In our last episode, we talked about like the stumbles from the anti-woke university, right? University of Austin. I thought it'd be fun to kind of stay in the parallel economy as people like to call it and talk about another, I mean, I would say failure, honestly, in like the anti-woke marketplace.

0:01:21 Thomas: There are a lot of them. We kind of had a list going of all the failed right MAGA equivalent businesses.

0:01:23 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. But I think what's interesting on this one too is like, there's always grift related to these things, but I think there's like an even more remarkable level of grift that I'm excited to get into that I wasn't expecting as I was prepping this episode. So, yeah. Yeah. All right, with that little teaser in mind, though, do you remember Public Square? Do you remember hearing about it back in the day?

0:01:41 Thomas: Wow. Okay. I think I kind of do, but yeah, barely. It's been a long time, right?

0:01:52 Lydia: Right. Uh, Uh, no.

0:01:55 Thomas: Well, since it launched, when did it launch?

0:01:56 Lydia: 2021 technically, but like nobody really heard about it until a couple years after that. But let's uh go ahead and start with this clip, kind of reminding everybody what Public Square is.

0:01:58 Thomas: Okay. That's a half a decade. Okay.

0:02:06 Clip: Nearly a million Americans are flocking to a new marketplace, it's called Public Square, and it's making it easier for conservatives to buy from 50,000 companies that share their values. Joining us now with more is Public Square CEO, Michael Seifert. Michael, it's great to see you this morning. We've had a conversation here on the show about Public Square in the past, and I know that I got a call this week from Michael from a friend of mine saying, look, man, I don't know what it is, I don't know if it's tennis shoes, I don't know what it is, but there's an opportunity here. THERE'S AN OPTIMISTIC OPPORTUNITY FOR COMPANIES AND INDIVIDUALS, FOR ENTREPRENEURS THAT ARE READY TO REFLECT OR AT LEAST NOT OFFEND AMERICAN VALUES.

0:02:11 Thomas: Wow.

0:02:45 Clip: WELL, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. AND NOT ONLY IS THERE A LOT OF EXCITEMENT FROM OBVIOUSLY MILLIONS OF CONSUMERS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE THERE ARE HOPEFUL ALTERNATIVES TO MANY OF THEIR FAVORITE BRANDS, BUT THE ENTREPRENEURS THEMSELVES ARE RECOGNIZING. WE'VE HAD THOUSANDS OF THEM JOIN THE PLATFORM THIS WEEK AND SAY, THERE IS AN UNADDRESSED MARKET HERE. If you are someone in this country who has more family values, loves your country, loves the Constitution and the values that it protects, there are businesses that

0:02:52 Thomas: Millions. Nay, billions.

0:03:11 Thomas: Oh, see, that's why it's not for me because I have no family values. I hate the Constitution, I hate our freedoms quite a bit, can't stand them, so this sounds like it's not for me then. Okay. And I don't, and I have no morals, what do you say, I always love that, it's like, yeah man, that's everyone, we We all have value family and it's like in the Constitution, so

0:03:15 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Exactly. Values. Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep.

0:03:33 Clip: Love to reach you. And these businesses are recognizing that that community and that trust that could be implemented in these transactions is a really strong desire in the marketplace. And in turn, we are witnessing this true patriotic economy grow in a massive way that I think is taking everyone by surprise and surpassing all expectations. It's really exciting. You that people

0:03:51 Lydia: Right.

0:03:54 Thomas: Now it must be God, huge, right?

0:03:57 Lydia: Oh, boy. I don't want to spoil it, but

0:03:59 Thomas: Must be the new Amazon, all

0:04:00 Lydia: No. No. Spoiler alert. And then I want to go a little bit further in this interview. So we can chat a little bit more about what to expect.

0:04:15 Clip: The other thing I'll say too, Will, is that people are recognizing that whether you're looking for household cleaning supplies or a new pair of pants, you should be able to do that with companies that will give you a sense of satisfaction knowing that you're not funding your opposition. And instead, you're spending money with people that share your worldview and want the same hopeful future for the country that you do. What is that? Really quickly, Michael, on way out, WHAT IS IT THAT WE SHARE?

0:04:40 Clip: IS IT OUR VALUES? IS IT PATRIOTISM? IS IT CONSERVATISM? WHAT IS PUBLIC SQUARE IN TERMS OF SHARING MY VALUES IF YOU WERE TELLING ME, HEY, THIS IS WHERE YOU SHOULD COME, PUBLIC SQUARE? YEAH, GREAT QUESTION. SO IF YOU GO TO PUBLICSQ.COM, YOU'LL SEE RIGHT AWAY THAT WE ARE A MARKETPLACE THAT'S PRO-LIFE, PRO-FAMILY, AND PRO-FREEDOM. IF YOU LOVE OUR COUNTRY, OUR CONSTITUTION, AND THE VALUES THAT THAT WONDERFUL DOCUMENT PROTECTS, YOU'RE GOING TO LOVE THIS MARKETPLACE. THIS IS FAR DEEPER THAN POLITICS, THIS IS PRINCIPLED, AND WE'RE HAVING A BLAST CREATING AMERICA'S MARKETPLACE. ALL THERE'S A DEFINITE DEMAND, DEFINITE NEED.

0:04:39 Thomas: Freedom and the troops the grift I mean we don't know God

0:05:15 Lydia: Incredible.

0:05:16 Thomas: It's you know, I underestimate, it's got to be even bigger than I thought by now just because of that pitch.

0:05:21 Lydia: Well, yeah, I mean, this was going to be the anti-woke Amazon, like you said, this right? Is potentially bigger than Amazon, a whole parallel economy. Donald Trump Jr. got involved. That was a big deal. That's kind of, you know, that 2023 timeframe is when he started speaking about it. And it was built with this idea. Michael Seifert created the idea in 2021 that conservatives could actually like outcompete woke companies that, you know, it's.

0:05:49 Thomas: Sorry just sorry to correct you that they could outcompete the normal fucking companies there aren't the woke companies, it doesn't exist.

0:05:51 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yep. You're right. As they launch this, the question is, are people actually using it? And so Michael Seifert, the founder of Public Square, went on Fox Business to talk about that a little bit.

0:06:10 Clip: IN LESS THAN EIGHT MONTHS SINCE OUR NATIONAL LAUNCH, WE'VE BECOME THE LARGEST NETWORK OF PATRIOTIC CONSUMERS AND BUSINESSES TO EVER EXIST, AND WE'RE EXCITED FOR OUR NEXT CHAPTER. DOES PATRIOTISM, THE WAY YOU'RE USING IT, DOES IT SELL? DOES IT WORK?

0:06:25 Clip: ABSOLUTELY. I believe that the answer to that is undoubtedly yes. If you hear from our businesses, tens of thousands on the They share stories with us daily about how their profits are increasing and their exposure to a group of consumers that are values aligned with them is only increasing through this experience. They've had hard times advertising on platforms like Facebook and YouTube, and they're grateful for a platform that not only respects their values, but also will help support them in their endeavor to make this country a better place. So, yes, the patriot economy is not only a fruitful one and a liberating one, it's also a lucrative one. So it's Public Square, it's a SPAC deal, and you're going public, it

0:06:30 Thomas: I'm sorry. Undoubtedly yesed. It's undoubtedly yes.

0:06:37 Lydia: Yeah.

0:06:40 Thomas: A what?

0:07:15 Clip: IS A $200 DEAL, $200 MILLION DEAL. WHEN DO YOU GO PUBLIC?

0:07:16 Lydia: Talk about that. Yeah.

0:07:21 Clip: THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION. WE ARE EXPECTED TO CLOSE IN Q3. WE'RE PROUD TO PARTNER WITH CLBR, LISTED ON THE NEW YORK STOCK EXCHANGE. ULTIMATELY OUR DESIRE TO GO Public is rooted in this strong urge to be a company that's by the people, for the people, and owned by we the people. We hear you. Michael Seifert, thank you very much for being with us. Best of luck with the podcast.

0:07:42 Lydia: Yeah. Exactly.

0:07:37 Thomas: Oh, okay. Oh, nice. So socialism. Cool. Where's my piece? Where's my to cut? Oh.

0:07:43 Lydia: Yeah. You know, I actually used them a couple years ago as like a bit for Matreon with Puzzle and a Thunderstorm, because I wanted to find stupid MAGA coffee to like try and make the guys make it, yeah, yeah, I use Public Square to find that, so we're gonna get into all the bits and pieces, all the nicks and crannies, all the stupid things in this stupid marketplace that they tried to create that, spoiler alert again, failed spectacularly. But we got to take a break before we're to do the rest of it. Yep.

0:07:56 Thomas: Yeah. Oh.

0:08:15 Thomas: But I, how do I avoid this break? I can't stand it.

0:08:20 Lydia: Oh, well, you should go to patreon.com/wherethereswoke and then you'll be able to do it.

0:08:23 Thomas: I don't know, I'm skeptical, what else will I get if I'm there? Wow. But

0:08:28 Lydia: Bonuses, ad free episodes, bonuses, are undying love, love and affection, uh

0:08:35 Thomas: Wait, do they share my values? Do they value over on Where There's well patreon.com slash where there's work Do they love the Constitution, their families, and freedom? Shit now I have to now I have to shop on patreon.com/wherethereswoke, or I'm, or I hate my country.

0:08:45 Lydia: Yes, yeah, yeah, oh. And if you're a listener if you're a listener then yeah Yeah, there you go.

0:08:55 Thomas: Darn. Okay. Well, I better do that. Everyone follow me.

0:08:56 Lydia: Clearly Okay.

0:09:01 Thomas: All right. I'll take a break and then get to it.

0:09:07 Lydia: Before we get into the company itself, I just want to do very quickly run down some of the names involved, um, Michael Seifert, who we saw speaking in those clips, he's the founder and and was the CEO, public face through 2025, through the calendar year 2025. Donald Trump Jr. will be talking about him a lot, in case you don't know who he is, son of Donald Trump. Anyway, he's an early investor in this company. He joined the board in December 2024, but was vocal about it before joining the board as well. And when there was a rumor that he was going to be joining the board, the stock doubled in price before it was even confirmed. People were very excited about his involvement. Omid Malik be talking about way more than I anticipated when I started putting together the research for this episode.

0:09:31 Thomas: Oh yeah.

0:09:59 Thomas: Don't think I know who that is.

0:09:59 Lydia: Yeah, he 1789 Capital with Donald Trump Jr., which is a venture capital firm. And the reason why he matters for this story from the beginning is he's the reason the company went public, because they mentioned a SPAC, right, which is special purpose acquisition company. And essentially the only reason they were able to go public is because they were acquired by Columbia Acquisition Corp.

0:10:04 Thomas: Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. I was going to say, he something, said oh, we're going, you using like Like some other stock thing.

0:10:30 Lydia: Yep. Yep. A different company.

0:10:33 Thomas: Yeah, I noticed that. Like piggybacking.

0:10:34 Lydia: Yep. Yep. It's allowed, but they basically through a 200 million dollar deal, they were able to go public and like say that they went public, which is like a big deal for companies to to go public, like to be invited to go public and have that opportunity. And they just basically like kind of bought their way via Donald Trump Jr.'s business partner.

0:10:36 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:10:54 Thomas: Well, I think any company could go public. It's about being on the exchange.

0:11:00 Lydia: But they are.

0:11:01 Thomas: Yeah. No, I'm saying the thing that is exclusive is being on the exchange. Not the merely going public.

0:11:01 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, OK. OK. OK. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. There are some other folks involved. We might touch on them a little bit. So just so you're familiar with the names, Blake Masters, Nick Ayers, Caitlin Long, those are board members. They're all people that have been long affiliated with MAGA. So they're giving that sort of credibility for the right wing. Trump Jr., when he was interviewed with Axios, and so were a number of these other people when they were talking about the bigger this, bigger launch in 2023, which is part of also this media storm that Michael Seifert did on Fox, he said that he wanted a place that, quote, gives conservatives a place where they feel good about actually spending their money, that Americans don't feel celebrated in other marketplaces. So they wanted to give them a place where they no longer felt ostracized.

0:11:50 Thomas: Just buy your stupid shit. Do you have to be celebrated every time you Buy something? Something, Apparently not, though, because I'm this sure this didn't actually do well.

0:11:56 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Uh-huh. But I do have they filmed a little thing when they went public that I thought we could watch part of this. It's it's fun. Yeah.

0:12:12 Thomas: Fun. I'm in the music, got me this

0:12:17 Lydia: Yeah.

0:12:18 Clip: We're back in New York City. We left our comfortable state of Florida to come to the People's Republic, but we're actually here to head down to the New York Stock Exchange. We're taking Public Square public. We're just trying to get more people out there, support some of these great patriotic small businesses and consumers who want to support them and just really unite them. This is the culmination of a lot of hard work. I think a lot of people view going public as sort of an exit or a finish line and for us it's fundamentally the opposite. We have a country to save, we have mountains to conquer, we have challenges to overcome and we can't wait to do that with now our consumers being owners in the platform.

0:12:19 Thomas: Sounds important, the wait to do that with you spending money on us

0:12:57 Clip: We never could have done this in this timeline either, without a spec. I don't know that anyone's done it in this timeline, literally, I mean, I mean, it's been over a year with us, but we didn't even start this conversation until a couple months into that. I mean, this is like less than nine months. I've been a believer in this movement for a long time. I mean, it started off, obviously, as a political movement, but then you see the cancellations of people by banks. It's happened to me and some of my own businesses. You see it in the insurance companies.

0:13:21 Clip: Half the market's been ostracized by woke corporate America. Half the country and the entire country really has been spoon-fed indoctrination and ridiculousness and ESG, and we wanted to do the opposite.

0:13:20 Thomas: Sure uh-huh yeah trying to do his dad now

0:13:32 Lydia: Yeah.

0:13:32 Clip: We wanted to create a place where people can find businesses and where businesses can find consumers that share a common values base uh, that didn't exist uh frankly again those people were ostracized. Public Square, it links those people, and they're going to take the time to do that because those people have been dejected, they've been left behind, and we want to make sure that they have access to be able to support the people that they believe in and that share their values and vice vice versa.

0:13:33 Lydia: Yeah.

0:13:41 Thomas: He's just, just trying to do the impression that's so funny sure

0:13:59 Lydia: OK. Pause for a second. I want us to skip forward, though, in this same clip. I mean, they show Omid Malik as part of this as well. But I really want you to watch when they ring the bell. Now listen. Now listen.

0:14:01 Thomas: Oh god yeah

0:14:33 Lydia: USA. Oh, God. Anyway. So

0:14:39 Thomas: Thought someone was gonna say something why was I listening. Oh, okay

0:14:41 Lydia: No, just dorky. Just them saying USA over and over and over again.

0:14:43 Thomas: Yeah that their company, USA. Wow.

0:14:47 Lydia: But I do feel like, knowing you that the owner of the SPAC is someone that Donald Trump Jr. owns another company with, it's like really just feels, again, you I guess networking, right? If you know the right people, you can kind of do whatever you want. But this is seen as like a huge accomplishment. Establishment.

0:14:58 Thomas: Yeah That's what I was gonna say, it was funny when it now was like, I forget if you said it or if the clip said it. But was like, oh, Trump Jr. was signed on, then, you know, investors go out. And it's funny that that's just because of who he is and that he'll get favorable treatment. It has nothing to do. He's not like a good businessman or, you know, it's nothing to do with that. It's just literally, oh, cool. Just nepotism.

0:15:19 Lydia: Oh, pin in that. Yep. Yep. Gosh. Yeah. No, no. Like major pin in that. We're going to spend a lot of time talking about some of that stuff later. So they go public. And And that was 2023, March 2024, they acquired a company called Credova, which is a buy now pay later firm. Particularly they are focused on it's not like a firm or Klarna, right? Like I use buy Buy now, pay later, you know, for different things and stuff. I find them really effective. But this company, yeah, but this company in particular is focused on doing loans for firearms. Okay. The deal was done all stock and the owner of Cordova is Dusty Wunderlich, which is also a great name. From his personal website, it says, Christ follower, devoted husband, proud father, anti-fragile entrepreneur, vocational economist, ANCAP libertarian, aspiring, oh,

0:15:52 Thomas: Racks up tons of debt, tens Of thousands. Thousands.

0:16:21 Thomas: Oh, a narco-cap, is that what

0:16:23 Lydia: Maybe, I don't know, aspiring philosopher, backcountry hunter, mountaineer. It's a lot of things to put on that.

0:16:23 Thomas: That is, yeah, narco capital A lot of

0:16:32 Lydia: Yeah.

0:16:32 Thomas: Things.

0:16:33 Lydia: Now, a little side note, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau actually had launched an investigation into Credova around the time that they were acquired by Public Square. And they said that, quote, consumers were being misled about Cordova's financing of pets and ammunition.

0:16:51 Thomas: Pets?

0:16:51 Lydia: That's what I read. And I was like, what? What's happening?

0:16:52 Thomas: Wow. Finance my dog? Yeah.

0:16:56 Lydia: Yeah. What is happening? But wouldn't you know it, come August 2025, folks from Public Square met with CFPB and the probe was dropped. So the investigation was launched during the Biden administration and then into the Trump administration. You have Public Square meeting with CFPB and it's let go. So Public Square framed it as political persecution, by the way, that Credova was being investigated at all. Closed door meeting. It was like not a big deal at all, a reasonable thing that they would be looking into that nobody really knew about, but political persecution. So this victim narrative that happened as, you Biden was in office and conservatives weren't really, that they are being victimized, they are being persecuted, they are being ostracized from everything and everybody. And that's hence the reason we need to create this parallel economy. Wouldn't you know it, post-Trump, once he's inaugurated, things actually shifted and there was a mass movement to use Public Square against itself by a lot of left-leaning people where they, Trump being elected, and they were like,

0:16:56 Thomas: I guess Oh,

0:18:06 Lydia: What companies in my zip code are like you self-select to go on the public square. Public square does not just like gather you up.

0:18:15 Thomas: I don't, you maybe you should explain exactly what it is because I, I thought it was like an Amazon, but it sounds like it's not.

0:18:16 Lydia: Yeah. No. So it's kind of like the reverse where public square isn't finding you. You specifically like go on it.

0:18:28 Thomas: Soviet Russia. No. Not.

0:18:30 Lydia: So this was actually detailed in a Huffington Post article because there was someone who was working for a bank and the bank said, and this is in California actually, "Hey, can you look into how we can get our business listed on Public Square?" On the user side of things, super easy to use, like you just enter your zip code and, and then it shows you businesses near you that specifically want to be publicly associated with this.

They essentially, you out to Public Square saying you would like to sell your product or list your business or whatever. There was another business that spoke about their experience where they had painted, you know, the fight pose or whatever. And they said that reached out to list their business to sell that painting, they get a call back from Public Square from employees there that want to know about why he painted things of like Biden and Kamala Harris. To kind of vet, are you actually conservative enough to be listed on here? So there's kind of a little bit of back and forth.

And that's what that individual who was working on behalf of his bank to try and get them on the website found out as well. So were so upset about Trump being elected and after the inauguration and everything, this individual actually, like, like went to Reddit because people were like, "How do I find out like, you did the coffee shop near me? Like, do the owners support this? Like, did they vote for this?" And he was like, "Oh, this might actually be a good use for this. Why don't you try checking Public Square and you can look up your zip code and find out like what businesses specifically asked to be in this conservative marketplace."

0:20:02 Thomas: Oh, I see. So where to not spend your money.

0:20:10 Lydia: Exactly. And so people characterize it as like, it kind of became like like a green book for liberals about how to avoid conservatives and, impact the economy that way. I And love that. I think that's like so smart, such a good use of it. And exactly the opposite of what Public Square was trying to do when they were like trying to, I mean, I guess they don't care about getting liberals money, but yeah, yeah.

0:20:10 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is kind of that is kind of what I was trying to do. We don't have your values, man. So we're trying to we're trying to not accidentally do you a disservice by shopping at your places because, you know, we don't we don't have your values.

0:20:35 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah. But I mean, there's comments of people like finding out that their dentist was listed on there and they're like, all right, going to go find a new dentist now. You know, your favorite coffee shop or something. You find out that the owners are publicly supportive.

0:20:48 Thomas: My God. All right. If your favorite coffee on you because there's no way the coffee is actually good. You know,

0:21:01 Lydia: I mean, this individual that spoke about their favorite coffee shop was actually from California. So I don't know. I think it can be, I don't know. I guess the coffee I bought was terrible.

0:21:10 Thomas: Your coffee is not made by someone with a gender fluid identity, with a bunch of piercings, who's super cool, it's not going to be as good. I'm just saying that that was that's your fault. That's your, you know, I hope that person learned a lesson.

0:21:15 Lydia: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. But it wasn't just like liberals finding out, hey, all these businesses in my area are pieces of crap and I don't want to spend my money there anymore. And like the and the businesses are suffering on that end. It seems to me a lot of mismanagement. But I think Again, is like for this underlying grift that we see all the time. So the collapse of public square is so spectacular.

0:21:36 Thomas: Hot Nazis in your area.

0:21:54 Lydia: It is so incredible. Since they went public in, you know, towards the middle of 2023.

0:21:52 Thomas: No spoilers. Spoilers. Well, let me just pause for a sec to say, so they're just like a yellow pages, but for Nazis, a white pages.

0:22:00 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Yes. Or a Yelp, I think is like how some people have characterized it a Yelp, because there's probably ratings and things like that. But yeah, for Nazis, exactly. You got it.

0:22:07 Thomas: Yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah. Like I almost had a joke, a, like a dog whistle yelp. And now that's nothing. Nevermind.

0:22:19 Lydia: The brown pages.

0:22:21 Thomas: So that's like, not an amazing business idea. Like, even if like even the businesses that are like, we will just list all of the businesses probably aren't doing, like, amazing because there's the Internet, right? And Google owns everything.

0:22:24 Lydia: No.

0:22:33 Lydia: Yeah.

0:22:33 Thomas: So if you're right away, you're like, I got a great business idea. Take away most of the possibility of revenue and then do that tired business idea. It's like, well, that's even worse, man. That's dumb. Only Donald Trump Jr. would invest in something like that.

0:22:47 Lydia: Wall Street Journal actually wrote a piece about this that's pretty good just a couple months ago where they this is the tagline. Public Square racked up costs before shifting into fintech, and its stock has cratered by 99% since it went public. Yikes. Yeah. They reported cumulative losses of nearly $160 million since they went public. They have been unprofitable every single year. You look at what they spent the money on, wouldn't you know it, starting in 2024, uh-huh, exactly, exactly, all the SEC filings, in 2024, right after Trump won the presidential election, so, you know, like towards the tail end of 2024, 24, Public Square started paying Donald Trump Jr. $42,000 a month in consulting fees. When I read this at first, I thought it said $42,000 in consulting fees and I assumed a year. And then I re-read it and I was like, oh crap, a month?

0:23:03 Thomas: Wow.

0:23:20 Thomas: Yeah, if you go public, we can know all that stuff, huh? That's in their reports. Yeah. Like, I'll be honest. That's probably the best money they spent. Of all the things you're going to say, that's probably the only... That is probably the best money they spent.

0:23:52 Lydia: Yeah. He was making more than the founder and CEO of the company. Also, addition, in Nick Ayers, who we mentioned at the top, one of the board members and also separate firm by Omid Malik, who, again, we talked about as helping them become public through his SPAC that he had. They were each paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by Public Square for consulting work and other services. In 2025, Trump Jr. ended up getting like $500,000 in consulting fees. And I think Nick Ayers got like 400 something thousand Now there's a lot like specifically about the stock price change that I'm trying to understand. Maybe you can kind of help me figure this out.

0:24:37 Thomas: Hmm. Oh, it went down.

0:24:38 Lydia: Yeah, it went down by a lot.

0:24:41 Thomas: Here, I'll help. Down is bad. Up is good. Oh.

0:24:42 Lydia: They did a reverse split. I don't know a lot about stock.

0:24:48 Thomas: Yeah, this crap, okay.

0:24:50 Lydia: So they did something in July 2026 that it was a one for 15. So their share count went from over $50 million to about $3.3 million.

0:25:02 Thomas: So it, like, increases the stock price? So it's just like you're- you're dividing the stock by 15 and multiplying the value, right? Something like that.

0:25:06 Lydia: Okay. Right. But then when I look at the split adjusted stock price, try to keep things even, right?

0:25:16 Thomas: Because that keeps- yeah. Yeah.

0:25:17 Lydia: All things being equal. It went from a peak of $210.30 to $5.46.

0:25:28 Thomas: That's still not good.

0:25:28 Lydia: No, that seems really, really bad.

0:25:32 Thomas: You know what it is? So I'm just refreshing on- on why they do that. Uh, you get delisted if you- you get too low. So major exchanges have a minimum bid price.

0:25:32 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And I did read in the Wall Street Journal article that they were getting warnings that they were about to fall off the stock exchange.

0:25:47 Thomas: Yeah. They don't- they don't have- some of those exchanges don't have a lot of time for, like, you're a penny stock, they're like, all right, we're the, you know, Nasdaq, or whatever, like, they're not gonna put a penny stock on it.

0:25:56 Lydia: Yeah. Further from the Wall Street Journal, the net Net losses dwarfed its revenues after going public in 2023 through the SPAC, Malik SPAC. It has posted full year net losses of $36.6 million in 2025 and $57.6 million in 2024. In the first half of 2026, it lost $12.1 million.

0:26:17 Thomas: See, that's why, like, I don't even think the Trump Jr. money sounds like all that much in terms of this story. Like, that just sounds like they lost tons of money on stuff,

0:26:27 Lydia: Yeah, your horses. Versus of the money that was being spent was on and consulting agreements.

0:26:33 Thomas: Trump Jr.'s nose, going right up his nose. Oh, who else did they get?

0:26:40 Lydia: That was it. Most of the money is being spent on, as I said, some of those board members that were getting paid for consulting fees. And Donald Trump Jr. And then, you know, the CEO was making $300,000 and stuff. So it's like on payroll and, you know, some other like administrative expenses. But primarily it's those consulting agreements. So in 2024, those costs were nearly double the revenues for that year.

0:26:43 Thomas: How are they losing all that oh Huh. Yeah.

0:27:09 Lydia: That seems unsustainable.

0:27:10 Thomas: Just your consulting stuff, like all that's in salaries yeah no That's that's not good.

0:27:13 Lydia: Yeah. Consulting and payroll. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. In Q3 of 2025, management of Public Square formally classified the marketplace and brand segments. The reason that the company existed as discontinued operations, they just shut it down. They listed it as an impairment, which I think we talked about.

0:27:34 Thomas: Wow. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's kind of like the movie thing. Yeah.

0:27:37 Lydia: Yeah. The WB stuff. Stuff. Yeah. When that happened, they cut roughly 50 percent of their of staff over the course of, you know, six to eight months.

0:27:48 Thomas: How much of their consulting? Like staff or just like, okay, but we keep in all these high paid consultants to do nothing. Oh, yeah. So this is just a grift. It's just a cash out. You can make more from a flop than you can from a hit.

0:27:54 Lydia: Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And, hold on to your I don't know what other things hold On to your horses. You got to hold on to some other things so the layoffs that they did primarily affected obviously like the marketing team because they completely are changing their entire strategy Yeah.

0:28:04 Thomas: Yeah. They don't have anything to market. Yeah.

0:28:14 Lydia: Exactly, and then their streaming show, which they had for some reason called Public Square Live, and hosted by, drumroll please, Erin Scavino, the

0:28:18 Thomas: Streaming show.

0:28:27 Thomas: Oh, Scavino, I know that name. Name

0:28:29 Lydia: Yeah. Don, Dan Scavino's wife, also the person who's in charge of all of the art for the embassies, that, yeah. Yeah.

0:28:31 Thomas: Erin Scavino. That person. Wow.

0:28:39 Lydia: The one who was like, we're taking down all the woke art and taking back our embassies.

0:28:43 Thomas: Do I think she was named something Erin. That was her name.

0:28:44 Lydia: Pro-America. Yeah. Erin Scavino.

0:28:46 Thomas: Oh, wow. I'm just so bad with names. It's a separate topic. Anyway, that's amazing, wow, it's all one grift. It's all one world of grift, everybody.

0:28:46 Lydia: Yep. And How incredible is this too, like she was hosting this show, and they had just started a couple months before, and they were being hosted on Real America's Voice, it's a right-wing television channel, I think we've watched stuff that have been hosted on it

0:29:00 Thomas: Yeah. Was it was listed on, uh, what's face lifted on Public Square.

0:29:12 Lydia: Yeah, um, and God, this is so depressing. So, I mean, well, so War Room with Steve Bannon is on Real America's Voice, the Charlie Kirk Show was on Real America's Voice, Ted Nugent's Spirit Campfire, Yep, who knows, um, but they officially have White House press corps access, because of course they do, and this world is not real. But yeah, they were hosting Public Square Live, hosted by Aaron Scavino, which no longer existed when they had to lay off everybody because their stock went down by like 99%.

0:29:22 Thomas: Campfire. Yeah. Wow.

0:29:42 Thomas: And Is that good or bad? I forget, I know, I just told you, down is down's bad, okay. Yeah, yeah. That's not good.

0:29:46 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. I thought you were actually asking. I was like, what's happening? So things were not going well for Public Square.

0:29:53 Thomas: Yeah, I think they'll make it so, they'll get in the third act, everybody, they're gonna pull it, pull through, yeah.

0:30:05 Lydia: In January 2026 ended up resigning as CEO. You know, the person who founded Public Square, he has left. He has not really talked about leaving. I'm sure he signed some things as he left. He's now with this company called X Strategies LLC, which I had to look up because I was like, what in the world? I thought it was, but it's actually a political and corporate consulting firm started by Alex Brusowitz. Brusowitz is not a name I was familiar with, but his hands are in everything. Everything. He is a child. He's very young. I think he graduated from high school in like 2015. So he's not like literally a child, but he is young. And he was one of the organizers of Stop the Steal. Very involved.

0:30:15 Thomas: Yeah. Doesn't Elon own everything, named X.

0:30:39 Thomas: Yeah. Wow.

0:30:45 Lydia: Very, very, very involved. And honestly, a huge influence on the social media strategy for the Trump administration this term. He was involved in the campaign. He is the reason Donald Trump went on. I mean, he and Barron, I guess it was was like the two of them really that got Donald Trump on all of like the podcast to reach Gen Z. He actually is unfortunately very savvy. So I'm not surprised he owns this political and corporate consulting firm. Now, when I clicked through his website, it was, you know, like about us and that he's a political arm and a corporate arm. And I clicked on each and it just shows him under both.

0:31:22 Lydia: It's like, about us, Alex, Alex. But Michael Seifert is with that company now to some degree. I don't know. The new CEO is Dusty Wunderlich, again, that founder of Cordova, the Buy Now, Pay Later for Guns founder, and, you know, just a few months later, so that was January 2026, we have the CEO shake up, entering into the summer, for the Public Square website, it just redirects to to credova.com, there is no Public Square anymore, it does not exist anymore.

0:31:21 Thomas: They got Rid of the public, the concept of a public square.

0:31:54 Lydia: Yes yeah um and the The company that is on the New York Stock Exchange, PSQ Holdings, now describes itself as, quote, a payments and financial infrastructure company. And it has three

0:32:08 Thomas: We're holdings, nothing fucking nothing, we are no longer holding

0:32:11 Lydia: Segments of their PSQ Holdings because they're no longer a public square. PSQ Payments, PSQ Impact, yeah, and Crudova. That's their third segment. Now think about just like the hype that happened just a few years before this, right? Like how the language and the rhetoric, I guess, but it was everywhere.

0:32:29 Thomas: But how real is that you know, like Like, in the same way that, yeah, but in the same way that, Fox News, the clips we watched from Fox News and Fox News, I don't even know. There might have been a different thing, but that they're the same outlets that are able to bootstrap a bunch of anti-woke nothing into existence. And so they try to bootstrap this idea that this company is going to be huge into existence. And it's not necessarily true.

0:32:40 Lydia: Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. You know, I think that's fair. We know Donald Trump Jr. was, pretending like he was his dad throughout all of that to really hype it up. Michael Seifert, we got to to see that too

0:32:53 Thomas: True. God, I just had the funniest thought, which is like, what if he was like, man, I need to call Shrimp AJ to get some pointers on how to do a better impression of my dad. Because that's that's your only fucking meal ticket, obviously, is that you've got nothing else going for you. I can lose her.

0:33:09 Lydia: My gosh I know.

0:33:19 Lydia: Seifert had um posted on X when he was confirming Donald Trump Jr. was joining the board, he said, quote, "He invested in Public Square before our IPO, has never sold a share, because he and I both believe that our company has tremendous untapped potential and we're just getting started." Um, Marjorie Taylor Green was posting about it. You know, all of these people who are like promoting it directly at various MAGA events and conventions. And then we had the shift, and you actually saw it from Michael Seifert himself before he stepped down as CEO, or forced to resign, or who knows. He posted the November 2025 earnings on X, kind of showing what the reframe was. He's talking about like, like the crypto payment capabilities that they're really looking forward to doing.

0:34:06 Thomas: We're not going to do any of the business parts of our business. It's just it's just records. We just have like like and records. That's all yeah nothing all

0:34:09 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Quote, digital asset treasury management. What? What is that? Yeah. Private label credit cards, gamified loyalty programs. We press forward to build a commerce ecosystem that champions economic liberty, but never talks about the marketplace place at all, never talks about even the woke or anything, um, or that the brands that are housed on this space are aligned in values. It's reframing and stepping into that crypto space, into the the fintech space, um, before anything was officially announced, of course, um, all the shake-up. Donald Trump Jr. has like reaffirmed his support of this company, even though, though it has shifted, did a private placement, which basically, I guess, every board member dumped money into the company. And with that press release, he posted on X, "I've been an investor."

0:35:07 Lydia: Well, he wrote, "I've been an investor in PSQ Holdings since before it was public. I've remained an investor and I'm now increasing my stake along with my fellow board members because, because I still believe in the mission and new management is finally delivering on" it.

0:35:20 Thomas: Right so I should buy now then

0:35:23 Lydia: Yeah. And then in the press release, quote, "Legitimate American businesses are still being denied the modern financial tools they need to survive and grow simply because the legacy financial system does not like their business or the customers they serve." So we move from shopping, you know, like consumer based, something that by the people for the people, etc, etc, to now, have you been the victim of debanking?

0:35:23 Thomas: Right

0:35:48 Lydia: Because now we can set you up on Credova, like all these gun manufacturers. Too cool. There's a piece of this that kind of opened up many more thoughts for me as I was going through this. So, I initially, I'm preparing for this and I'm like, oh, haha, you know, this this is fun to kind of watch this thing fall apart, losing 99% or whatever of your stock price and, you all this change and up and you're trying to like say that you still matter and you're still relevant. People should still care. Donald Trump Jr. is like having to work overtime, and now they're pouring like their personal money into this project as well.

0:35:47 Thomas: The people fuck the people yeah Doing 1.5 times nothing.

0:36:24 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. But there's actually an element of this that started getting into Congress with oversight. And, So you know, some of this is political potentially, but there is a letter from the House Judiciary Democrats that was issued to Malik, who's, you know, the person who is responsible essentially for making this group go public. Donald Trump Jr.'s business partner for 1789 Capitol, a man named Buzz Kirk and Trump Jr., basically calling out the fall that they saw with Public Square, but tying it into a broader pattern that is happening related specifically to 1789 Capitol. So I want to read actually quite a bit of this.

0:37:08 Thomas: Understand what you just said, but okay.

0:37:10 Lydia: Yeah, maybe it'll make more sense as I'm stepping through official letter. Letter.

0:37:11 Thomas: Is it like The crypto pump and dumps, are we doing that?

0:37:16 Lydia: I don't even know. Well, you'll have to tell me what you think. So two years ago, your company, 1789 Capital Management LLC, was a struggling venture capital firm. Oh, this is from Jamie Raskin, by the way, and House Democrats. A struggling venture capital firm that earned consistently disappointing results by serially investing in total market flops. And they footnote and give quite a few citations.

0:37:17 Thomas: We'll see Oh.

0:37:26 Thomas: Nice. Nice, as it wasn't entirely necessary to, yeah, no,

0:37:38 Lydia: I love this. No, I love this letter. You're going going to love it. Your most noteworthy investment was the financing of a white nationalist media network that shared your, quote, anti-woke political message. That was Tucker Carlson's media company, by the way. But right after the 2024 U.S. presidential election and the firm's recruitment of Donald Trump Jr. as a new partner, 1789 Capital suddenly had the Midas touch. You became the overnight darling of the venture capital world, rocketing from $150 million in assets under management to an astonishing $3 billion.

0:37:41 Thomas: I know, oh, wow, that's impossible,

0:38:12 Lydia: Yeah, A trio of businessmen with heretofore lackluster records in the market was suddenly running the hottest firm in the United States, picking out with almost clairvoyant accuracy winner after winner by investing in companies that would soon come to win hugely lucrative federal government contracts and grants and favorable regulatory actions. I like could not believe this as I was reading this. How did this miraculous transformation in the fortunes of your LLC come about?

0:38:12 Thomas: Actually, we diet and exercise more, I think,

0:38:42 Lydia: Was it indeed magic or was it rank corruption, a toxic blend of trading on insider knowledge and the use of insider political influence to steer major federal contracts and other financial benefits to Donald Trump Jr.'s new favorite businesses? Businesses, the story is amazing either way. In 2023, Mr. Malik, Mr. Buzzkirk launched 1789 uh Capital with the financial backing of MAGA mega donor Rebecca Mercer, um, etc., etc., etc. She's someone who was very involved in the um January 6th riot and funding a lot of groups

0:39:12 Thomas: Yeah, oh, yeah, isn't that, because Mercer, isn't that, like, a billionaire or whatever, yeah god

0:39:14 Lydia: Yeah yeah yep Just skipping ahead a little bit, the early returns on 1789 Capital were not promising. The firm invested in several anti-woke startups. One of its investments, Public Square, dubbed the anti-woke Amazon, lost 97 – they cite 97 percent of its value after 1789 Capital took it public. Another, GrabAGun, which lets customers shop for firearms on smartphones, saw its stock plunge 75 percent since 1789 Capitol took it public. But on November 5th, 2024, 1789 Capitol's fortunes radically changed with the election of Donald Trump. Just four days after the election, 1789 Capitol pounced on this unprecedented business opportunity by capitalizing on the only unique asset possessed by its founders, their relationship with Donald Trump Jr. Jr. On November 9th, you named Don Jr., the president's eldest son, a full partner, tapping him to assist with, quote, new investment origination, capital raising, and strategy.

0:39:33 Thomas: Oh my god is what I'm saying, that was the only smart money they spent.

0:40:10 Lydia: Yep. And then I'm going to read this because I want to get this in the record, just these like digs Don at Don Jr. Based on his own personal business resume, Don Jr. may have been an unlikely choice to originate investments for an upstart venture capital company. His rare solo ventures outside the paternal eye of the Trump organization have been well-documented flops, including investing in dry oil wells, hydroponic lettuce farms, and an African mining company. But he became the lucky charm for 1789 Capital. We talked about the $150 to $3 billion in assets under management. This is like in the span of no time at all.

0:40:25 Thomas: Yeah yeah

0:40:45 Lydia: The investment fund generating generating roughly a 200 percent return as of June 30th, 2026, 10 times the average return for peer venture capital firms founded in 2023. this is crazy.

0:40:43 Thomas: That's it, that's nuts

0:40:57 Lydia: No investment illustrates this dynamic more clearly than 1789 capital stake in rare earth company Vulcan Elements. This. On the day Donald Trump was elected, Vulcan Elements was a small startup with no active manufacturing facilities and no history of fulfilling government contracts. Then, 1789 Capital invested several million dollars. Soon after this investment, Vulcan Elements boasted that it had been raking in federal dollars throughout its capital raise, securing nine different government contracts in the past eight months. And that, as it turned out, was just the beginning. In November 2025, 1925, the Trump administration wrenched open a giant spigot of government cash for Vulcan Elements. That month, the Department of Defense announced a massive $620 million direct loan to Vulcan Elements.

0:40:57 Thomas: Wow yeah

0:41:45 Lydia: Contemporaneously, the Department of Commerce provided the company with a $50 million grant under the Chips and Science Act. In exchange, DOD received warrants in Vulcan Elements while DOC received $50 million of equity, giving the U.S. government a vested interest in the company's long-term success. That, how is this not an insane conflict of interest, your son is on on the firm that has contributed to this company, like, this is crazy.

0:42:05 Thomas: Oh it is when they do the final tally on the grift earned in this administration, it's going to be Wayne Gretzky's points record. You're not coming close to this.

0:42:20 Lydia: It's going to be off the chart like you you can't quantify it

0:42:21 Thomas: I don't even know. This isn't important, but for sports people, I don't even know if that's the right reference. What's the most unbreakable record? The baseball player's game started, games played in a row. What's that guy's name? Name, there's a him and there's a junior, um, hold on no, it's uh, it's yeah but that's not, you, you won't know who it is, I don't think, uh, yeah, Cal Ripken Jr.

0:42:35 Lydia: Don't know, Ken Griffey is a Ken Griffey Jr. though Yeah. No. Oh,

0:42:47 Thomas: He played every single game from 1982 to 1998 that's like one of the biggest ones uh Joe DiMaggio's hitting streak let's see oh yeah Wilt Chamberlain yeah Wayne Gretzky maybe it is that maybe that is the most most unbreakable one, actually. But still, I don't even think that's a good enough comparison for the total amount of grift of this administration. It's impossible.

0:42:47 Lydia: Okay. I do that name. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's crazy.

0:43:09 Lydia: Yeah, listen to this. According to public reports, Vulcan Elements was worth approximately $200 million when 1789 Capital secured its initial stake in the suddenly auspicious company. Less than a year later, Vulcan Elements was reportedly worth $2 billion, marking a 900% return on investment for the lucky few who grabbed a stake in the company before the avalanche of taxpayer money arrived.

0:43:36 Thomas: Unreal. Unreal. I mean, to be fair, I don't know to whom or what, but to be fair, they didn't know he was going to win. You know, like this started before he won, right?

0:43:46 Lydia: Did, but Donald Trump Jr. wasn't involved in 1789 Capitol until he won, right? And they appointed him November 9th, right?

0:43:51 Thomas: Oh, okay. I thought that was just before, oh, yeah. Okay, okay.

0:43:56 Lydia: Right. So the election happened November 5th. Don Jr. gets appointed November 9th. And then all of these things start happening immediately, immediately. Of the dozens of companies that the Pentagon was considering funding at the time, Vulcan Elements was, quote, the only deal initiated by a top aide to the president. After the request came in, DOD was forced to execute the loan at an, quote, unusually rapid pace with Pentagon staffers working late nights to meet the White House's demand to, quote, get this done. And they cite a few other things. Juul is an e-cigarette manufacturer. You're probably familiar with that.

0:44:04 Thomas: Of

0:44:31 Lydia: There was pressure a on them because of the marketing of flavored e-cigarettes being, you know, basically a way to get kids hooked. Was going to be prohibiting Juul from selling the products in the United States. And then in March 2025, 1789, Capital acquired a $5 million stake in Juul. And then a few months later, the FDA said, never mind, guys are good. And they authorized the marketing of five e-cigarette products, including flavored varieties. That,

0:44:30 Thomas: Course yeah I

0:45:01 Lydia: Again, was the entire uproar and, discussion for regulation and discussion for pulling off the market completely. And when 1789 Capital got their hands in it, oh, suddenly it's not a problem anymore. More. And it wasn't something where it was like, you Donald know, Trump was president in March 2025 when 1789 got that stake. Trump was already president for a while, right? The FDA didn't make that move before. They made it after 1789 invested or, you know, put in $5 million or whatever to have investment. I don't know. What would you call that? Up ownership, yeah, of the company.

0:45:36 Thomas: Ownership stake where it's yeah Well.

0:45:39 Lydia: Polymarket's also cited in this letter as well about, you know, like, funny business happening there. 1789 Capital was involved. "Alas, it is now impossible to believe that your firm's astonishing growth and success are due to anything other than insider political influence and thoroughgoing corruption. Corruption indeed. President Trump recently admitted that his oldest sons have, quote, 'inside information,' with, quote, 'almost anything they do,' whether government decisions and contracts are being manipulated to ensure that your firm and the president's family get a cut of the action, or your firm and the president's family are being given advanced insider information about those forthcoming decisions and contracts, or, more likely, both." They say, in parentheses, "These practices constitute clear violations of law banning governmental conflicts of interest, political Insider Trading, Exploitation of Public Office for Financial Gain, and Fraud."

0:46:25 Lydia: And then they ask for a variety of information. So this was issued August 26, 2026. I don't think we have any information yet.

0:46:37 Thomas: Yeah, I mean, they don't have the numbers to enforce it, probably, right?

0:46:40 Lydia: Yeah, that's probably true. But they did request, or I guess he wrote demand, Jamie Raskin wrote, "I demand the following information no later than 5 p.m. on September 9th." I haven't seen anything since, but, you know, I hope this is a thread that they're not willing to drop, because it just seems really, really insane to me. There's a paper trail, thankfully, that we can see, like, none of this stuff seems to be happening, you in secret. Um, I don't know how much that matters while Republicans are in power, probably none of it, but at least, are there, you are documents, and some of this stuff is now in the record. Um, and then, hopefully, we can kind of see it being pursued eventually, um, but who knows.

0:47:27 Thomas: So on one hand we've got a failing, stupid, idiotic business idea. On the other hand, and a great business idea is grift and just corruption. It's good, it's maybe not a good long-term strategy, hopefully, but it's certainly a good short-term strategy.

0:47:42 Lydia: So, uh, so there you have it.

0:47:43 Thomas: All right, invest in corruption, everybody. I'm buying a hundred shares, corruption.

0:48:06 Clip: Is undoubtedly yes.

0:48:12 Lydia: Don Jr. gets appointed November 9th. Yeah. I'm cutting it so you can put that at the end.

0:48:14 Thomas: Jr yeah