Samuel Alito's Victory Lap and Douglas Murray's Deportation Jetpack Fantasy

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:10 Thomas: And welcome to opening arguments. This is vapid response 46 and don't we look great? Don't we just look amazing finally got our video configured better You know the world was not seeing Lydia and Matt in full quality and now I think hopefully they are and they deserve it You know, you look great. How you doing Matt?

0:00:26 Lydia: Thank you.

0:00:28 Matt: Slightly less pale I'll take it it works for me uh just very excited to come back and talk about some of the smartest people on earth as we always do every wednesday we got some good ones today in stereo

0:00:40 Thomas: We've got, yeah, we've got the most obnoxious people. Two of, among, it's hard to say. You can't, you can't say most, but two of the, yeah. Yeah. Oh boy, really? Because I feel like Douglas Murray, to give it away, is always here. Doesn't he live here?

0:00:47 Matt: Transatlantic obnoxiousness yes, yes he lives here but he

0:00:57 Thomas: Asshole.

0:00:57 Matt: Sounds like he's not from here makes you makes you maybe we should ask some questions about where he's coming from and maybe send him home I don't know

0:00:58 Thomas: Go somewhere else. Yeah, that's the one thing, you know, It's too bad that that happened, that Americans just view people with a British accent as smarter. That's too Bad. And sometimes

0:01:11 Matt: He's got a good one too Yeah.

0:01:12 Thomas: That's correct, but not here. It's just he's got that accent and everyone's like, wow, he's so reasonable as he spews just the dumbest racism. But Lydia, how are you doing?

0:01:15 Matt: Well,

0:01:22 Lydia: Oh, looking good, feeling good. So yeah, Yeah, I don't know. Pretty good. Excited to be here. Excitated to jump in.

0:01:28 Thomas: I'm excited to take on some incredibly stupid things. Why don't you give us a little more preview, Matt? What are we going to be talking about?

0:01:34 Matt: This week there was an interview on Barry Weiss's CBS News with one Antonin Scalia, who's, you know, he said some things. Oh, no, I keep doing that. The other one, the living one.

0:01:40 Thomas: It's Scalia from the grave. Wow. He's the, he's the one who makes Antonin Scalia look like a nice, look like Miss Rachel.

0:01:46 Lydia: Alito.

0:01:49 Matt: Folks, I'm doing anti -Italian discrimination. I'm so sorry.

0:01:55 Thomas: It's, yeah. To be fair, the category they're in for me is just asshole in charge of law. So it's not, it's Not really. The Italian thing has nothing to do with it. They're both just asshole.

0:02:02 Matt: Really stepped up into the Scalia role. Yeah. No, he really, like, he was an understudy the whole time so now he's really got the leading yeah it

0:02:06 Thomas: I would take five Scalia's over one Alito just in my personal life. Not in the court, not in the Court. Just in like, it just, if I had to talk to them, you know.

0:02:14 Matt: Would

0:02:12 Lydia: Interesting. Oh, okay. Fewer flags. Fewer flags, if that's what you did. Yeah.

0:02:16 Matt: Have been a oh yeah that's true it's true I mean nobody compete with can compete with the flag game but uh I gotta say that would have a much bigger story if cbs had the exclusive with anthony scalia I would have been might have had this might be the whole episode but no that's

0:02:28 Lydia: Incredible.

0:02:25 Thomas: Who killed you did somebody have you killed no that's a conspiracy theory

0:02:31 Matt: Uh yeah but gotta watch that a little bit we don't have much fortunately um and then we got to talk about this piece by Douglas Murray. We haven't talked about Douglas Murray on this show yet. I don't know if you guys have covered him in Where These Woke. He's very much a Where There's Woke kind of character.

0:02:44 Thomas: Yeah I'm sure we have and I feel like we I always feel like мы've talked about everybody but I

0:02:46 Lydia: In passing, maybe like a little bit, yeah, but probably not not in super depth and covering his pieces in particular. So this will be a good one.

0:02:50 Matt: Remember the intellectual dark web? Or the intellectual dork web, as I like to call it.

0:02:57 Thomas: That is we currently are that yeah that's what we yeah we've

0:03:02 Matt: You call that too?

0:03:02 Thomas: We've covered that a lot for sure

0:03:04 Matt: Okay, just checking.

0:03:03 Lydia: Yeah, yeah.

0:03:04 Thomas: But uh yeah douglas murray is like um who's the guy we just covered that got deported uh uh, yeah, Milo. He's like, he's like Milo without the, um, questionable, uh, what do you even call what Milo said? The comments about sex with minors? He's, like, Mila without that, really.

0:03:10 Lydia: Milo.

0:03:11 Matt: Milo, yeah.

0:03:23 Lydia: Yeah?

0:03:24 Matt: No, just regular racism and xenophobia, just the usual kind yeah

0:03:28 Thomas: Would write a better book. I'll give Douglas Murray that. He would write A Less Stupid Book.

0:03:30 Lydia: He, he supposedly specifically did not want to be part of the intellectual dark web, like Barry Weiss included him and he was like, I don't want to be in this. But now he works for her like for the free press and stuff. So yeah, yeah, I mean, he works at a bunch of places. But yeah, they're very, very good friends.

0:03:36 Matt: But he was anyway right right yeah yeah they're good friends we

0:03:41 Thomas: He does? Oh, wow. I remember when we covered the dork web, there were a few people who were like, I think this person said like, no fucking way. Don't you dare include me. And that was a good move. I want to say Pinker. Uh, I want us to say Pinker was like, nah, right. I can't. Oh man.

0:03:45 Matt: Will be yeah

0:03:58 Thomas: I hold on picture in your mind. Can you imagine Steven Pinker in like some shrubbery? Like, cause that's what all the pictures were. They were all each person.

0:03:56 Lydia: I can't remember either yeah oh

0:04:07 Thomas: I Can't think of him.

0:04:06 Matt: The dark woods yeah that'S right yeah I remember that

0:04:09 Thomas: I Cant think of a picture of Steven Pink or

0:04:09 Matt: Piece not

0:04:08 Lydia: I thought you just meant in general could I picture him I was like yeah I can do that

0:04:12 Thomas: I mean, can you imagine can you remember conjure in your mind's eye the specific memory it's not at all what I was doing you creeps I was trying to remember like because if there were a picture of steven pinker in the bushes like there was for all the other weirdos we'd be seeing that every day like people would be like oh yeah this idiot you know like I don't think he did I think he

0:04:16 Matt: My kink but sure yeah all right pinker in the shiver yeah

0:04:31 Lydia: I will say steven pinker seems to know when to like leave a situation because he did that same thing with university of austin he was like all right I'm out right before it launched.

0:04:37 Thomas: He does yep yep he's a he's he's dork web and just a little bit smarter he's able to be be like oh this is not a good look I'm gonna not participate in this I'm not gonna be in a spread where joe rogan is like it in one of them looked like it was a giant pot bush it wasn't but it like kind of looked like that anyway so gonna be a lot of fun so we've got assholes we got douchebags and what else go ahead it's

0:04:48 Lydia: Never mind.

0:04:59 Matt: Well I just want to say uh well Douglas Murray I mean he's gonna it's a longer piece from the free press but I wanted to read it because it is the intellectual case for mass deportation and uh we'll see how it holds up uh yeah

0:05:11 Lydia: Intellectual.

0:05:12 Thomas: Just intellectually I'm a racist that isn't I'm racist but here's my iq Q score? Like, what is that?

0:05:16 Matt: It's just we should be doing more of it that's what it comes down to even though nobody wants it so we'll pick this apart uh may not be some things that are true in there you may be surprised to learn but uh I know I know we'll have to save that yeah

0:05:31 Thomas: Right. Well, that's going to be a lot of fun and probably really annoying and anger -inducing, but no two people I'd rather be doing it with. Why don't we take our first break? Oh, and another thing to cheer us up. Let's thank our Hall of Fame patrons. Always so fun. On patreon.com/law these are the folks that donate at that five dollar level uh or above thank you to Help! I'm trapped in a Patreon shoutout! Weyoun 11 and matt said that was something star trek My house is a mess but I read a lot of books, Griff, the Tired 2L, Matthew Cutler (twitch.tv/MTC_streams), Forgetting to change my Patreon name, I've had Crunchwraps More Supreme than this Court I made the point last week I started whatever that was I stick by it everything everything is more supreme than the court. Literally every Taco Bell product, as long as it's existed, has been more supreme in the court, so I'm agreeing. Unpronounceable nerd reference. I love that. Oh man, Worm court is now in session. All writhe.

0:06:31 Thomas: That's so dumb and I love it. I mean, I would think it'd be like snake court, but I don't know, that's also good.

0:06:29 Lydia: That's very weird. Yeah.

0:06:37 Thomas: All I'll writhe.

0:06:37 Matt: It's even better. I like it.

0:06:40 Thomas: That is so delightfully stupid. Aminah, Donna Treadaway, Mother of Harridans, Mike Lapinsky, Easter Island Spiny Lobster. Matt, you got anything for that? I got nothing on there. Easter Island, Spiny lobster.

0:06:51 Lydia: Easter Island spiny lobster. I

0:06:54 Thomas: No idea.

0:06:55 Matt: Must be extinct.

0:06:55 Thomas: Must could be for another show. Sionitus, Good Grief, Grey Pouponderance of the Evidence. Last Train to Skanksville. I am not an abo-gato. What is that? I'm not an abogato.

0:07:06 Matt: You're not a lawyer.

0:07:06 Lydia: Am not an abogado.

0:07:07 Thomas: Yeah, but it's like A-B-O dash. Oh, oh, gato. Abo-gato, that's cool. I'm Not a Cat. That all fits.

0:07:15 Matt: That's pretty good.

0:07:16 Thomas: Interesting.

0:07:16 Matt: That works. Okay.

0:07:17 Thomas: Apprentice of Adventure and Charlie Kelly, Attorney at Bird Law. All right. Thanks so much, Hall of Famers. Let's take that break and then we'll get to it. Matt, to quote the great Seinfeld, he looks like an old catcher's mitt. Who's this old catchers mitt we're looking at?

0:07:21 Matt: That Actually, this interview started on a baseball field. This is Samuel Alito, and he's getting a very, very friendly interview from Barry Weiss's CBS News. This has gone on for a while. He's got a lot of stuff going on. From chief legal correspondent, Jan Crawford, asking him nothing but softballs. Easy stuff, but he's still going to biff them yeah

0:07:35 Thomas: There you go. Because, you know, it's about time that this person got a fair shake, you know?

0:07:50 Matt: Got a break yeah absolutely yeah yeah

0:07:51 Lydia: How depressing too that like he has to be handled with kid gloves like what what a freaking baby

0:07:57 Thomas: Oh, he is the most fragile ego.

0:07:58 Matt: So delicate yeah oh no literally she takes him on a tour of like his old high school and like they make a point of walking through the door where there's an oil portrait portrait of him like next to the door just the one door that has him uh it's

0:08:07 Thomas: I want to just watch this whole thing. It's nine minutes. We can't do it, but I want you. I'll scrub through it.

0:08:12 Matt: It we can link to it uh also I want to point out that his tie the entire time is never cinched and that really bothers me like we all have those days is but you're on cbs news like this is your rare interviewer allegedly since your time one

0:08:22 Lydia: Well, and you're supposed to be like like one of the most premier people in like the entire country. So what are you doing?

0:08:24 Thomas: Here's him out on.

0:08:28 Matt: Of our premium tie wearers yes like yeah

0:08:30 Thomas: And then they're on the baseball field. He can't even tuck in his damn shirt.

0:08:33 Lydia: Is it like like to try and just seem more relatable is like it's like a PR kind of thing.

0:08:36 Thomas: I don't know. I think it just sucks.

0:08:37 Matt: Definitely here he is on the baseball team he's talking about how you got to support your team you have to say loyal to your team it's it's very subtle I don't know what he's trying to say uh but you have go with your team no matter what and uh basically write any decisions they give you I think is no

0:08:51 Thomas: That sure isn't what we want Supreme Court justices to do is it isn't that like exactly the opposite yeah

0:08:54 Matt: He's already in a hot mic saying that might as well sit on a cold one. Yeah, so here we go.

0:09:01 Thomas: Boy so you want to play some of this what was it I lost it no for four or something okay

0:09:04 Matt: So the particular moment here that I think you're going to enjoy the most is at 4 .30 approximately, where he's being asked about Dobbs. He goes on and on about the leak. It's not worth listening about that.

0:09:11 Clip: Do you regret writing it? No, not

0:09:13 Matt: Here we go, wait

0:09:13 Clip: At all. Even though it's certainly had consequences for your personal life? No, it was a privilege to be able to write it, and I don't regret it, despite what it led to. I don t think I anticipated the particulars of what it led to, I did anticipate that there would be strong opposition. One thing Alito says Dobbs did not do, call into question Obergefell, the landmark ruling in guaranteeing a right to same -sex marriage he says that case is different because people have come to rely on it to organize their lives unlike he says with roe I did not think that there was any realistic process prospect that it would be overruled because of the passage of of time and the developments in the country since that point people thought that that Roe was settled law of the land and obviously there were consequences when the court overturned Roe and Casey. After Obergefell people of the same sex got married and entered

0:09:47 Thomas: We feel like it yeah

0:09:49 Matt: For this. This is bad.

0:10:09 Thomas: Duh way older yeah uh

0:10:20 Clip: Into contracts and so there was much it was much more concrete. With his expansive views on presidential power

0:10:26 Matt: Let's break

0:10:22 Thomas: -huh what no one got an abortion after

0:10:27 Matt: That down.

0:10:27 Clip: Alito has been spared the ire of President Trump. He's praised Alito.

0:10:29 Matt: He's saying essentially that there's a reliance. That's what he's saying is that people now rely on Obergefell, where they certainly didn't. There was no guarantees made by Cairo, I guess. Not that any of that mattered to me. Samuel Alito.

0:10:42 Thomas: You know I just thought of this the other day, actually, before I even knowing about this, which is like the people who make these decisions for us, the decide everything we never even get, they never even have to answer a question ever. They don't have to ask it. They go to Congress and there's questions about like the, the budget and crap, right? Or they're like, Oh, do you need this? We need this money for something, you know, like there's a little bit, but there is not a single time politicians, at least even the president of the United States, theoretically, when he's running or when he's up for reelection, you're doing debates. There could be some amount of like questioning him, press conferences. No one ever gets, unless they do a softball interview on CBS news, they're, they never have to answer for anything at all.

0:11:23 Matt: And that was my favorite part about living in London. I went to prime minister's question times a couple of times where you could actually go to parliament and watch Tony Blair get grilled. And it was amazing. Once a week, they just bring him in. It might have been more than a couple times a month, but they bring him on. And in one question, somebody is asking about a rural post office that he hasn't backed, that he was supposed to back. And the next question, they're like, what are you doing in Afghanistan? What are we doing there? And I love it. They just grill him him. And they yell at him.

0:11:46 Thomas: What are we doing? Yeah.

0:11:47 Matt: That's what we should be doing every time. And we should get it. We should get to grill him, too, for a treat.

0:11:49 Thomas: Well, and it's, I think what bothers me in particular about it is everything, but also this is the Supreme fucking court. The thing they're supposed to be good at is like, well arguments law you know but like that's politicians I get it they're they just want power and they whatever like they're going to say whatever ostensibly supreme court justices and lawyers in general the thing they're doing is supposed to be able to handle you know hard questions cross -examination the judge is going to question you on something like that that's the whole deal isn't it but the the highest ones in the land no questions no obligation they could they could decide our whole lives and never answer a single question if they wanted, right?

0:12:28 Matt: You know, what's even almost worse is that there's no one to ask them questions because CBS News is now run by Barry Weiss. And I want to point out what Jen Crawford did here, because you got to laugh. I mean, you did laugh when you heard her say it. She cuts away and they show a picture of the Supreme Court and a pride flag. And she sets you up for the idea that he's about to say something ridiculous. So she says it first and then she lets him say it because just to kind of break the ice, just to get it out there, because what he's going to say is that people didn't rely on Roe, but they're relying on Obergefell, so you don't have to worry about it. Obergefel's safe. So yeah,

0:12:56 Lydia: Do you think part of that, though, is like trying to stop the slippery slope concerns and stuff that everybody everybody have that, like, if Roe falls and Obergefell falls, then, you know, what's to stop loving the Virginia from being reversed to, you know, like.

0:13:01 Matt: It is. Yeah. Yeah, I

0:13:07 Thomas: I mean, that is, there's just no justification for it. Like it doesn't make any actual sense. It's just what they decided. Like, and by the way, that's only, I mean Thomas for sure wants to undo that. I'm not sure, Matt, what do you think did other, I mean, I know Roberts had a really, he wrote the dissent for Obergefell.

0:13:27 Lydia: Obergefella.

0:13:28 Thomas: And so you'd think maybe, but I, for whatever reason, they've, the justices have kind of accepted that the gay marriage is going to stand and to a degree that they just did not with Roe. And I don't really know why I'm not.

0:13:41 Matt: Mean, the really cynical take is that Obergefeller's better for men, and nobody cares otherwise. I don't know. I mean it's really like even men they don't like, it's still men. I don't know. That's my first read, but I really don't.

0:13:52 Thomas: I guess the other, if you wanted to be like slightly more charitable in their mind, like gay marriage, isn't directly killing babies. And they might think some of them actually think abortion is killing babies, maybe that's what it is. I don't know. It's just funny me to be like, oh, you know, it's, there's no reliance. And like Obergefell just happened. And you're like, well, it's been a lot of time.

0:14:13 Thomas: You mean like Roe was since the seventies. Like, what are you talking about? But all

0:14:17 Matt: Yeah and because

0:14:17 Lydia: Is it also like just this idea, like he kind of set it up in the interview where he was like, you know, people have entered into these contracts, right, where like they can kind of more like academically wrap their mind around it, where it's like, well, then we would be like forcibly undoing all these contracts that were legal at that point in time. And like you know contracts be tricky kind of thing I don't know whereas like roe wouldn't be that way

0:14:24 Thomas: I think he would also probably say, yeah, I think you would also say no one should be relying on getting an abortion. Like no one's planning to get an abortion, you Know, like I think He would probably say that.

0:14:48 Lydia: Like you don't make steps in your future for yeah right

0:14:49 Matt: Of Roe. Whereas

0:14:53 Thomas: You're really how people mostly look at it. So, I mean, maybe that's the point he would make.

0:14:56 Matt: Now people have to decide what state they want to live in for what kind of healthcare they're going to get. I mean, that's, that was not the case before as much.

0:15:02 Thomas: And there are more abortions happening now than before that was overturned. So yeah.

0:15:06 Lydia: And more worse outcomes than ever

0:15:08 Thomas: Yeah, what an asshole.

0:15:08 Matt: Doubt.

0:15:08 Lydia: Before obviously because that's exactly what happened before it was legal

0:15:10 Thomas: He's the ultimate douche for today for the the amuse douche. All right. Well, yeah, we're we're not.

0:15:16 Matt: We're never going to run out of them, but that's endless supply, infinite resource in America.

0:15:21 Thomas: Yep. All right. Well, where should we go to next, man?

0:15:25 Matt: All right, well, let's talk about Douglas Murray. So it's a name I was familiar with because of his work. So such as it is on immigration. He's one of these guys, again, since we mentioned the intellectual dark web, he reminds me of this guy, kind of a Sam Harris vibe, you know, he's just asking questions. He'S very chill, except when he's not. We'll watch a clip where he's not. And he gets really, really mad at you when you call him a white supremacist or say that he's supporting white supremacy or say maybe perhaps he's even an ethno -nationalist or even that he is Islamophobic, even though he is doing things that sound like all of those things. And, he wrote an entire couple of books that are definitely that. But, he'll sue us if we say any of those. So, I'm just going to say that the things he's saying resemble those things he likes to see with people that talk about him. So yeah, quite a lot. So we're just going to stick to the facts here and those are the facts I understand them what do you got any more facts the

0:16:14 Lydia: Well he publicly supportive of the wall obviously the muslim ban he made

0:16:19 Thomas: The wall? I thought you were supposed to be the intellectual guy.

0:16:19 Lydia: Sure yeah yeah uh -huh

0:16:23 Thomas: Like really? The Wall?

0:16:23 Lydia: Yeah he thought that was great he thought that was great

0:16:26 Thomas: The dumbest shit. It does. It's there.

0:16:26 Matt: 16th century solution oh

0:16:27 Lydia: You can catch his work in the spectator he's an associate editor there um the times daily telegraph you know really really premier hierarchy or institutions of journalism right uh new york post national review free press obviously which we're going to be reading from a bit later and unheard uh he's very close with ayaan hirsi ali Ali and other folks like that, you know, he's he's seen as, I guess, an ally in the concern over Islam and how people have been affected in that way, to put it nicely.

0:16:57 Thomas: Well cause I understand he married Niall Ferguson, right? Who is the the same person as Douglas Murray, and I confuse them all the time, so that makes sense.

0:17:07 Lydia: Different. Yeah, Niall Ferguson is the historian. Douglas Murray is the journalist. Right. Like they're different.

0:17:11 Matt: Now you're going to get sued yeah

0:17:12 Lydia: They're yeah, they're not. Douglas Murray is gay. So that's a big difference.

0:17:11 Thomas: They're the same Person, I don't know. I just mean rhetorically

0:17:17 Lydia: But oh, okay.

0:17:18 Thomas: An argument, like they're saying the things, they're Saying the Same Things all the Time.

0:17:23 Lydia: And then he was the associate director for the Henry Jackson Society for about seven years. It's a conservative think tank. It really like changed when his group, the Center for Social Cohesion, merged with the Henry Henry Jackson Society. These are all like UK -centered things.

0:17:23 Matt: Scoop

0:17:39 Thomas: Who's Henry Jackson, some racist?

0:17:42 Matt: Jackson from Washington State actually he was a great uh okay classic senator uh where's your rep either way he's in congress um but yeah I mean and like the center for social cohesion I just want to point that name out for a minute not to let that go it's

0:17:43 Thomas: Scoop Jackson? Oh, okay,

0:17:48 Lydia: I know. I don't like that.

0:17:55 Thomas: Yeah, that sounds like it's from 1984.

0:17:56 Matt: It's it's up there with uh because Because they like these kind of bland names. But if you really listen to that one, it's saying something. I also discovered, and another time we might look at this, but the White Papers Policy Institute. And white papers, you know, those are boring. Nobody wants to read a white paper. But the

0:18:12 Lydia: Yeah. That sounds familiar. We might've touched on that at some point, but I'm not, I'm totally positive.

0:18:15 Matt: Emphasis is on white. They're a strict ethno -nationalist organization. I thought it was kind of clever.

0:18:20 Thomas: It's like the the Christmas, what's the thing in, yeah.

0:18:22 Matt: Yeah, the Christmas Adventure is clever or whatever. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah, please. Carry on.

0:18:27 Thomas: Oh man, that was a movie. That was a movie. Oh, we have to watch, to watch them? Oh, carry on.

0:18:30 Lydia: Well, just very quickly, just very quickly after the merger, some folks that were affiliated with Henry Jackson society actually left because they were not happy um they uh douglas

0:18:40 Thomas: The merger of what with what? I missed it, sorry.

0:18:42 Lydia: Murray's center for social cohesion with the henry jackson society right before he became uh and

0:18:45 Thomas: They couldn't cohere? They couldn't, you'd think his expertise said that from the center of cohesion, you know, they'd find a way to be able to make it work.

0:18:54 Lydia: So like the merger was opposed by some members and then douglass murray specifically was opposed by Some members um so some folks left and uh one person in particular marco attila horror horror left henry Jackson Society in 2012 because of Murray's, quote, anti -Muslim and anti -immigration views. I'm not saying that. That was somebody else. Douglas Murray, if you're watching, I don't want to get sued. And yeah, true, true.

0:19:16 Thomas: You can say it, it's fine. He's not. I wish we were big big time enough to get sued by Douglas Murray. It's not happening.

0:19:24 Lydia: But the group, you know, has been thought to be pretty hawkish, looking at like regime changes and warmongering in the Middle East to, you know like the arabia and um that that conspiracy theory um and also hyping up u .s homeland terror in quotes um so that was talked about in the guardian that all the patrons that really support the society primarily are like the top of the right -wing warmongers like hawkish folks and stuff um so there's thoughts

0:19:59 Thomas: How does he feel about Iran?

0:20:00 Lydia: About that oh

0:20:00 Matt: Oh, yeah, no. You know, he was on the war drum a long time ago. He was all about going to war with Iran before. He's actually, he calls himself a neoconservative, which is pretty rare anymore. And he's also gay and loves Israel, like loves Israel. So he's not very popular with MAGA right now.

0:20:06 Lydia: He gets awards from them he gets rewards from israel like from their government because of how much of an ally he has been

0:20:19 Matt: So he not really doesn't have that much of a constituency with MAga right now, but certainly he's saying the stuff they want to hear about immigration. So let's watch a little clip of him in Doha. He's, he's actually making a weird appearance in Qatar. Her.

0:20:32 Thomas: Fine.

0:20:33 Matt: And he's going to do some yelling at a very nice woman who's just trying to ask him some questions.

0:20:38 Clip: Think you're gonna persuade a Brit that we we should stop drinking alcohol because of people arriving in our country. I mean, that's not going to happen. But these things are all a bit of give and take. But you can suggest that you bring your own traditions that don't quite fit with theirs. Well, yeah, there are, as I said, and before we got all confrontational, which you did from the get -go, I said what the problem is here is that these things have all rubbing against each other. And in that situation, you have to work out what things you're willing to give up, which things you'RE willing to compromise on, and which ones you'RE not. You'RE not going TO persuade the Brits to massively change their culture. But let me just make the point. Every single society has certain aspects of it it doesn't want to give up this one will in Qatar this

0:20:42 Matt: That's not what she said. She wasn't.

0:21:15 Thomas: Sounds

0:21:15 Clip: One will everyone does so please which ones are most threatened by freedom of speech it's the first one oh you think that's not a a problem? You think that's not a problem, but you think so? No, no, no. Let me pick up on that. Let me pickup on that It's very easy to snigger about this until you've had friends shot in a newspaper office. It's easy

0:21:15 Thomas: So reasonable. I better be a racist then.

0:21:20 Matt: Here we go.

0:21:29 Thomas: Yeah? Oh, are they taking away your frequency?

0:21:50 Matt: Hold

0:21:50 Clip: To laugh about that until it's happened to people you know.

0:21:50 Matt: Up. We've got to pause for a second.

0:21:53 Clip: Is there an over

0:21:52 Thomas: Charlie Hebdo or something? Thing what the hell is he no

0:21:54 Matt: He's talking about Charlie Hebdo. He didn't have any friends there. He talks talks about Charlie Hebdo a lot. And again, Charlie Hebda was an awful, awful thing. It was 2015.

0:21:56 Thomas: I doubt it yeah it

0:22:00 Matt: Obviously, it was a long time ago. And that was not in the UK. There have been many more white nationalist terrorist incidents in the U .K. at this point, including the shooting of Joe Cox, because of the kind of stuff he's saying here about the EU. So that's the best you can come up with, is your free speech is under attack because some people got shot in France in 2015. 15 um yeah

0:22:04 Thomas: Was in france yeah yeah this is going to be a deep pull and this is for about two and a half people maybe but I am just realizing it's possible that ben mendelsohn might have used him to model his character on from rogue one and from the uh the uh the the good the good star wars and or he's mainly in season two but he's the you know the the bad guy in Rogue One, he sounds exactly like him. And it could be because Ben Mendelsohn is Australian and then Australian doing a British accent, but I swear to God, they sound exactly alike. It would be really funny if he modeled. It's like, it kind of makes sense. Like it's, you know, the Empire and Star Wars, they're always the British guys that are this exact kind of racist.

0:23:00 Thomas: Like there might be something there, you know? Just, okay.

0:23:03 Matt: It's the very posh and honestly I hate how much I'm into it I'm really into it um I can't help it I'm just wired that way uh just yeah and him like it's just like if he were talking about like I don't know calculus or ant farms or something I'd probably be a lot more interested but anything else yeah I don' t know I don''t know where I got that but no literally I'd rather he was talking about calculus because then I could just be be attracted to him but like I don't know like he's just being really ugly right now he's a good looking guy

0:23:10 Thomas: Into the accent? Accent yeah well okay not calculus Matt like you don't like well I know but he could talk about anything and say he was talking about calculus and that would work for you right because

0:23:33 Matt: That's true just yell out some letters and all it's probably calculus it's fine that's what calculus is right it's letters I don' know it's fun yeah x's and y's uh

0:23:33 Lydia: You wouldn't know yeah letters yeah well

0:23:38 Thomas: Variables you know yeah there's derivatives yeah okay we're playing more of this or

0:23:44 Matt: Just a little more you get the idea we just want to be sure we heard his voice and

0:23:45 Clip: -exaggeration, Douglas, do you think in the West, this fear of Islam or anything that looks so different to us? No, I mean, the society I'm from is one of the most pluralistic and diverse societies on Earth, you couldn't get a larger range of people of different backgrounds and ethnicities and languages than you have in Britain. So it's why I once again, if I may, push back against this thing you are pushing, which is that these are sort of uniquely bigoted, unwelcoming societies. Not at all. The evidence on this part of the stage would suggest that Britain is not, for instance.

0:23:58 Matt: I hate it my muslim him friends.

0:24:16 Clip: I'm giving you the chance to tell us, from your perspective, what you find threatening or not about refugees coming to England. Let me answer that by broadening, if I may. My suggestion would be, if we're to arrive at any kind of common understanding on this, is that we agree that, for instance, where there are people who pretend that everyone who arrives as a terrorist is barking mad, okay? We can agree with that, but don't laugh at people with serious concerns about serious security concerns either. Because, you know, we had this in 2015 when certain officials in Europe said the likelihood that anyone coming on the boats among the 1 .5 million people arrived in Germany are going to be violent in any way is total you know xenophobic fantasy and everyone laughed until people started

0:24:22 Thomas: Being mad yeah that's you though you say half of them are terrorists like all of them were terrorists all died

0:25:05 Clip: Letting off bombs until like in Amsbach in Germany they just had a suicide bombing outside a wine bar and it just stopped being quite so funny so I'm

0:25:12 Matt: So that's an interesting example in Ansbach. This is more than enough of him, as entranced as I am. But the Ansbach suicide bombing was actually somebody who was too mentally ill to deport. He was actually that they, so like, that's not a good example. So if you're looking for religious extremism, right,

0:25:32 Lydia: I guess I mean yeah I mean I guess he would say that that person just should have never come over and like the mental illness can be somebody else's problem kind of thing is like that sort of what he's thinking

0:25:41 Matt: But he's blaming it on Islam. He's pretty directly saying that it's Islam, right? And it's just, it's mental illness.

0:25:44 Lydia: I see I see yeah yeah

0:25:46 Matt: It's like, yeah. So I I just wanted to make sure we heard his voice because we're going to read his words now and you want to hear that posh voice, of course, purring at you.

0:25:53 Thomas: It is a little more posh than ben mendelsohn's accent but the but the voice the mouth and the voice it's like exactly the same.

0:25:58 Matt: The vibe.

0:25:59 Thomas: There's something about it. Yeah.

0:25:59 Matt: The vibe is there. Yeah,

0:26:00 Thomas: But, uh, okay. Yeah, no, that's, we get it. We got the racism and the posh. What, what would you want to, oh, we have an article. That's right. We have a, uh.

0:26:08 Matt: I think we should take a break and then come back to it.

0:26:10 Thomas: Sure. Yeah." So we'll take a break and then we'll talk about, uh,"How the West Lost Its Will to Reverse Mass Migration." I don't know. This, this isn't, this wasn't written and then like 2015 this is uh current so that's weird all right let's thank our second batch oh patrons thank you too Probably a real person, Nick Fish, Who sucks more, Ann Coulter or Riley Gaines, again I don't Matt did you make this point the other day like we don't hear from Ann Culter do we I

0:26:43 Matt: We did. We were just talking about that last week. And Riley Gaines is out there a little too much so I think she's doing more damage right now.

0:26:44 Thomas: Don' yeah I can't think of yeah yeah

0:26:47 Lydia: She also but but but then she just lost her lawsuit so yeah

0:26:51 Thomas: And Ann Coulter's really bad, it's really goes, it's It's that classic split evil versus like the effect they're having and the effect they're Having now versus cumulative, you know, yeah, you got it. You really got to specify, you know, but I would say if it's like right now who's doing more evil, maybe Riley games just because I haven't heard from Ann Coulter in 10 years. Yeah, a A Negative Phenomenon. Lawtistic AuDHDer. Yeah, (You Gotta) Fight For Your Right (To Ex Parte). Jaysank, VML emphatically stating Patreon sucks, and Matt please don't make us read Alito's book.

0:26:57 Lydia: That's a tough tough tough question mm -hmm yeah

0:26:59 Matt: And their popularity in this moment. By numbers. Very good.

0:27:12 Lydia: Oh nice

0:27:26 Matt: I promise. I thought about it. I love you too much. I'm not going to do it. Sorry. There you're welcome

0:27:30 Thomas: A plethora of El El Jefes. Today's episode is brought to you by the letter. David Souther, Thomas Freeman, Cajunkilla. By the way, David Souther was over on Serious Inquiries Only. If you want to hear him talking about AI and that math problem that it may be solved or didn't or whatever that was you'll have to find out and listen thomas Freeman, Cajunkilla, cavalri, Fraud Fishy Hates Everything, Chris Simpson, How do I get into the top 3rd?, you're on your way, Anonymous Aquila, and Check out www.galenacomic.com for a cool webcomic. All right, thanks patrons, we'll take a break and then we'll uh read some racism right, Matt, let's talk about how the West lost its will to reverse mass migration. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

0:28:13 Matt: Is it this is the intellectual the closest thing you're going to see to an intellectual argument for mass deportation so I thought it was worth taking some time on because it's stupid it's very stupid and it's politically legally and morally incorrect um in every way so and when I say politically incorrect I don't just mean like I don t like it I mean like nobody wants this like it's just not going to work um that's what he's mad about

0:28:31 Lydia: I have I have an account with the free press just because of work I have to like read the articles and stuff and this one popped up in my email I sent it to Matt immediately I was like like, oh, check this out.

0:28:36 Thomas: Brutal.

0:28:40 Matt: Yes and I was like I d n't have to even read this I know I can read the rest of it we're going to read on the air and

0:28:44 Thomas: You read free press for the articles. I get it.

0:28:45 Matt: That's right all right and and they also they stuck this is interesting I don't know I don' t read the free press maybe you can say this is normal but they put a little introduction here from their politics editor who is a black man with a very foreign sounding name and I'm just wondering if that was a coincidence um that he's co -signing

0:29:02 Thomas: They love to find people who will be the best vessels for their racism.

0:29:05 Lydia: Tokens. Yeah, they look for tokens. Definitely.

0:29:08 Thomas: Yeah. Do we need to are we reading that or?

0:29:11 Matt: I think

0:29:11 Lydia: Do you want us to read that? OK, sure.

0:29:11 Matt: It's worth reading his intro actually yeah so

0:29:13 Lydia: The results of the midterm elections will send a signal to Washington. Stick to the course set by President Donald Trump or set a new direction. So far, the polls show moderate voters revolting against the White House's direction on the Iran war, the economy and immigration. If Democrats win big, Trump could lose support for his agenda. Yet sometimes an urgent issue demands perseverance, even when the political heat is on. That's what Douglas Murray argues about the need to

0:29:36 Matt: I was gonna say I think what he's saying here is that donald trump should go ape in the last two years when he's a lame duck and nobody cares he should just go absolutely hog right

0:29:45 Thomas: They know what's going to happen, which is a bloodbath in the midterms, most likely. And they're like, but, you know, you don't you know. Sometimes you've got to look at the face of everybody hating what you're doing and say, I'm going to do it anyway.

0:29:51 Matt: I got the power I

0:29:55 Lydia: Reverse

0:30:04 Matt: Love it love to hear it

0:30:05 Thomas: Who knows? I'm not counting. I'm nicht counting my chickens until they're in the Senate. What

0:30:10 Lydia: The trend of illegal immigration, which has transformed Western countries over the past decade.

0:30:26 Thomas: Are you talking? Sorry. Matt, can we call bullshit on that? The past decade, long before it came to dominate our politics? Like, no. I mean, it's been a huge thing. For longer than that.

0:30:36 Matt: It's been a big driver and and it it is interesting to watch just in my study of immigration policy when I teach this I talk about this a lot that it wasn't really a national issue until really the early 80s and really the 90s it became the lightning rod it is today but it became a lightning rod of the the 90s for sure and it began to dominate local elections yeah yeah that's general trump and

0:30:53 Thomas: But to say a decade ago is 2016. A decade ago is we were electing Trump the first time a month from now, a decade ago. Everybody.

0:31:03 Matt: That's when he invented xenophobia that was the first time that we had it so

0:31:06 Thomas: First time anyone's ever. Now, admittedly, he brought it more to the forefront, sure, but to say the past decade long before the issue came to dominate our politics, Okay. Sure.

0:31:09 Matt: Like the republicans had not seen him yeah for a while yeah yeah sure

0:31:11 Lydia: My maybe he's having the problem where like none of us can believe that the 80s were 40 years ago, you know, if I'm going to be fair.

0:31:19 Thomas: That's true. Yeah. All right. Yeah, nevermind. I withdraw. Yeah it is. You do have to do the math every time. Now we're like, Jesus, 10 years ago was that. All Right. I

0:31:28 Lydia: Today he argues that politicians wise enough to see the problem must take the next step and summon the courage to reverse it all a country allow mass law breaking and retain its integrity for almost any crime you can think of the answer is no no country would allow people to walk into another person's house or let them drive on the the wrong side of the road.

0:31:36 Matt: The courage all

0:31:48 Thomas: Or say Congress, you know, on January 6th and you know.

0:31:53 Lydia: Yet many politicians behave as if they have no choice when it comes to mass illegal immigration. It appears that even some Republicans are losing their will to deport illegal migrants and reverse the law -breaking trend.

0:32:04 Matt: So I'm just going to start with the, the one of the main fallacies in this piece which is a very very common fallacy, of course, on the right, which is that it is a crime to be here, which it is not. And he's equating walking into someone's house, which is an extremely serious felony, with walking into the United States, which is a misdemeanor. Even like crossing the border is a misdeneanor, but it's hardly ever charged. Being here is not a crime. And that is something he's going to keep saying. He's going to keep equating them with the worst kinds of criminals. And that's normal, but I just want to point out that's kind of his thesis. So just off the bat, bad start.

0:32:32 Thomas: So right out right away, the whole thing sucks. You, you, you need to restart your essay

0:32:34 Matt: We've got a fallacy right in the middle of it. Yep. And

0:32:38 Lydia: Their hesitation is understandable since the public has little stomach for the reality of deportations and the tactics of immigration and customs enforcement have turned off many would -be supporters. A Gallup poll in June found that the share of Americans who support deportations has fallen to 39 percent from a recent high of 47 percent in 2024, while the share who opposed them has risen from 51 percent to 58 percent.

0:33:01 Thomas: It jesus

0:33:01 Matt: Let's pull up that poll because he's not being truthful, of course, about what the question was. He's also not being truthful about what The Solution that is proposed here that people love. And consistently, these numbers are consistent for the entire time that I've been looking at immigration policy for going on 20 years, it's pretty much been the same polling about the thing we'll talk about further down. So if you get

0:33:02 Lydia: Yeah, go ahead.

0:33:22 Thomas: Okay so this says american support for immigration down still strong okay

0:33:26 Matt: Under the system charts here, we can keep going. Obviously, consistently, Americans say it's a good thing. That's pretty normal. Um yeah

0:33:28 Thomas: Like this one oh okay do you think immigration is a good thing and then we got 73 good thing 21 bad thing oh and this is current yeah okay uh

0:33:38 Matt: That's pretty consistent and yeah uh so perfect further down for the country today republicans yeah and

0:33:44 Thomas: This is interesting views on effects in the u .s yeah you see republicans kind of going down boy Boy, really went up between 24 and 25. Isn't that odd? Huh. Is interesting. Okay.

0:33:55 Lydia: Interesting.

0:33:57 Matt: Then a little further just so we have the uh perceived effects of on again the economy uh so that's all pretty predictable too it's all Pretty Good keep is the one that consistently consistently, like you get when you ask people, so we start with DACA, right? And like 50 % off the bat just favor giving status to people that came here as children, 42 % to giving people the chance if they meet requirements over time. And then if you look at strongly, exactly, right off the bat, like,

0:34:15 Thomas: All right. Yep. And that's 50 strongly favor. And then another 31 favor.

0:34:23 Lydia: Favor.

0:34:24 Thomas: So that's an 81 issue.

0:34:24 Lydia: So it's really 81.

0:34:26 Matt: And that's normal. That's if you ask most Americans throughout the last couple of decades, and throughout the time that I've been studying this, it's historically over 70 % consistently. And yeah, you're

0:34:34 Thomas: They just, we've talked about it, Matt, but, you know, it's been the quest of this show It's like the main, one of the biggest problems, in addition to the racism, xenophobia, is just nobody understands what's actually currently happening. Like they don't, everyone's like, well, I want them to do it the right way. And that's like there is no right way that doesn't exist. It's impossible.

0:34:51 Thomas: Can't be done. You know, and if you ask them how long it takes to do It the right Way, what would they say, Matt? I don't know, a couple of years, you know, like, yeah, fill out some forms.

0:34:51 Matt: And this question is, yeah, just fill out some forms. It's fine. You probably don't even know the lawyer, I would imagine.

0:35:02 Thomas: You can never do it. It didn't never, it takes thousands of years.

0:35:06 Matt: But look at the question at the bottom, because that's the one he's citing.

0:35:10 Thomas: For deporting all immigrants who are living in the U.S. illegally back into their home country.

0:35:14 Matt: The question is all. He doesn't say that in the piece. He says supporting deportations. And even that, though, and he's getting this 57 % here, I guess, 58%.

0:35:16 Thomas: All. Oh, right. Well, yeah, let's finish saying what it is. So, for deportING all immigrants, all immigrants. That's 21 strongly favor, 18 favor. So that would give you 39, right? And then everybody else. So it's a minority position. I wish it was more of a minority position. And so you're saying he said, so what was the thing that he said? Said uh oh

0:35:43 Lydia: The number is correct. The way that he's framing it is incorrect.

0:35:46 Matt: So, right. Presenting it.

0:35:45 Thomas: He said I see so gal pole and june found the share of americans who support deportations yeah no that's a very big that's very different thing yeah but why does he say that? Because it would, does that make his point better? Is he trying? Because, like, I'm sure if you just said, do you support any deportations, you get a way higher number

0:35:53 Lydia: Interesting.

0:36:02 Matt: Well, yeah, I think he's trying to soft pedal what he's actually pushing here, which is to try to do mass deportation to everybody. He's trying to say we should do that, but he doesn't really tell you what it is. He doesn't want to talk about the consequences of what it's going to look like. And what he is saying right here is that we got a taste of it this year, right? We got a taste it. It killed two US citizens and lots of other people. We've had just another round of ICE shootings this week. And it's not the tactics of ICE. It's ICE itself. This is what they are, and this is what they are going to do, inevitably, if you unleash them and let them do what they're doing. And they still haven't been fully unleashed. If you get to the point that he wants, that he's talking about, of mass deportation, it's going to be a very different country, and I think people are starting to see that. I was seeing that there's a poll of rural voters, people that live way outside the cities that are starting to see it now and starting to understand that this is not what they want. It was like a third at this point

0:36:50 Matt: Strongly oppose it. That's a lot. Lot um

0:36:50 Lydia: On cue, Republican politicians are distancing themselves from the policy going well beyond condemnations of the worst ICE excesses. Representative Maria Elvira Salazar became the face of this shift last week when she released an ad excoriating the president for detaining illegal migrants who, quote, had no criminal record, meaning those whose only crime was to cross the border in the first place.

0:37:13 Matt: Not what she said but um yeah but she she um we talked about her a couple weeks ago and about her very strategic choice to come out against trump just before her election um but after having seen alligator alcatraz right

0:37:25 Thomas: Come come out quote unquote against Trump wasn't it the softest shit yeah

0:37:29 Matt: Mr president you have to do my plan instead yeah pretty much um yeah I mean she'd already seen the worst of it she'd been personally to alligator albatraz and she'd said it was fine and then coming up in elections election, she's deciding that maybe Trump has gone too far.

0:37:42 Thomas: You know I was thinking back to some of the alligators I saw and actually that maybe wasn't great how do you go from thinking it's fine to not whatever

0:37:51 Lydia: Like, oh, I forgot what alligators were. I didn't remember that's what those animals were.

0:37:52 Thomas: I just remembered I have some morals yeah fuck

0:37:56 Lydia: I thought they were cute. It is a fact that reversing illegal migration is a logistically difficult and often unsightly business. Ten years ago, when I was researching my book, The Strange Death of Europe, Immigration, Identity, islam I spoke with politicians across the western world about the problem which was already roiling global politics and seemed certain to get worse one thing struck me no matter how quote right wing quote far right or quote populist the politicians I spoke to were almost not almost none had thought much about how to actually reverse mass migration right

0:38:04 Matt: Unsightly. None

0:38:04 Thomas: Off Nazi shit it's

0:38:28 Matt: Of them were Nazi enough for me. Yeah, like he's, that's what he's saying.

0:38:32 Thomas: Almost like they they like having the issue to demagogue on but don't actually want to solve it or care about solving it or understand what it would take to solve and again quote unquote solve it in their minds

0:38:42 Matt: Well, and they know it would be extremely unpopular to solve it in the way he's talking about, and he's going to make that point.

0:38:48 Lydia: Indeed I remember one particular meeting with a european politician who was campaigning on a promise to return illegal migrants to their countries of origin. This would involve deporting more than 1 million people. Quote, how are you going to do it? I asked. Since there was a little policy forthcoming, I sketched out how I saw it happening. On day one of, yeah,

0:39:08 Matt: Told him about my fantasies.

0:39:09 Thomas: Jesus what is that gonna how how you I want tell us does he tell us

0:39:10 Lydia: It's very, very kinky.

0:39:14 Matt: Some fanfic here. No, no, he's doing it right now.

0:39:17 Lydia: On Day 1 of the new policy, federal agents would have to put illegal migrants on buses and start taking them down the country to the ports of origin by day two, the media would have swarmed to all such buses yeah

0:39:17 Thomas: Sorry what what that that's your specific this is like a kid saying like here's how my jet pack would work step one the bottom would have fire things that come out and that and yeah well I put you right step one I push the button step two fire goes out the back of it step three I fly it's awesome that's not a plan what do you mean federal agents would have to put illegal migrants on buses what does that you would think about all the specifics of that which ones how how do you find them how are you doing that with force are how many how many is that going to be yeah like like right man I mean that's all this

0:39:35 Matt: I pushed the button. I invented

0:39:36 Lydia: I fly just

0:39:44 Matt: A jetpack. That's right. He invented that. He just came up with that idea. Yes are

0:39:56 Lydia: Driving around knocking on every door yeah doesn't

0:40:03 Matt: We seeing a judge first are we going to talk to anybody first are we just going to put him on buses take him to ports he

0:40:07 Lydia: Seem like it yeah

0:40:06 Thomas: And like they thought trump did the people in trump too did have this kind of planning it's just impossible you know they did have the level of planning that he's talking about let's just get them all out of here yeah okay cool how did that go like you and and by by the second month you're deporting you know Moms who have done nothing wrong because you can't find the quote -unquote criminals you thought you had.

0:40:30 Matt: Ran out of gang members no and we're talking like the the expense even with the massive amount of money that ice has been given it's still there's an estimate about 88 000 per if you you know there's like average basically and that's that's a lot of money

0:40:40 Thomas: My God. Yeah. You got to keep on, hun. Sorry, I stopped. This is psychotic. This is amazing.

0:40:43 Lydia: At least one photo would emerge of a person perhaps even a family a woman a child crying as they were put on the bus by day three there would be protesters and by day four the political press and by bay for the political pressure would prompt almost any self -interested government to give up the plan. There is a moral to this story. In order to follow through, a leader must first earn an electoral mandate to carry out the deportations, devote extensive resources and planning, and prepare to take the heat.

0:40:52 Thomas: Man. No, by day one, there would be protesters.

0:41:12 Thomas: That's what Trump has done. That'S exactly what Trump is. Yeah?

0:41:15 Matt: This is the jetpack this is like you have to you have to win a whole bunch of votes and you've just said nobody wants this you've just told us that. So what's your plan?

0:41:22 Thomas: Now, here's what they're doing wrong. They didn't put the magic juice in the jet pack what they need to do is the right combination of magic juice and like gas and then the jetpack will work

0:41:33 Lydia: Yeah, I didn't conjure that hypothetical out of thin air. Around that time, British Home Secretary Theresa May made an effort to crack down on employers in the UK who were hiring illegal immigrant workers. On a number of occasions, when the police were were sent to find these lawbreakers, crowds of activists and others turned up to repel the police and force them to withdraw. It was a microcosm of what was happening across the Western world and a prelude to the disturbances that have faced ICE officers in the years since Donald Trump returned to office.

0:42:03 Matt: This is a really interesting use of this anecdote. I looked this up. This was in Walworth in 2015 in the UK. And they were coming to get the employee, not the employer. I don't know, maybe it was during a bunch of, because, you know, they never actually go after the employers. That's just never a thing in any country. But this was a massive protest because they were come for a regular worker. And he's making it sound like it's because they're trying to crack down on employees. I just thought it was employers. I thought it was an interesting detail.

0:42:27 Lydia: Light of this resistance, many of Trump's allies around the world have refrained from adopting his approach to deportation. When Nigel Farage, leader of the uk's reform party was asked whether he approved of the removal of illegal immigrants from britain he dismissed the idea only once part of his voter base rebelled did farage reverse that position after all what is the point of voting for a party like reform which positions itself as a bulwark against mass immigration and globalization if it is not going to do what other parties have shrunk from doing just

0:42:56 Thomas: You're not understanding the key thing here this is a lie they campaign when you campaign on a lie and then you're like why aren't they doing the thing they lied about it's because it was a lie and it's not a thing that anyone actually wants right I mean like you campaign on this thing and this plan how you gotta get everybody out you're when you say that you're lying about how it's gonna go who it is how many people and then when you go to try to do it that's when it's revealed that the thing you were saying was fake and then everyone's mad that so douglas murray's over here being like nah don't listen just keep keep doing the thing yeah

0:43:31 Lydia: Do it just

0:43:33 Matt: And like Nigel Farage, UKIP, they want power. They barely have any. They still don't really have any, and of course they're going to say this stuff.

0:43:34 Lydia: Do do it. Yeah, you got a fear monger. Yet the right leaning politicians who treat deportations as an impossibility are making an error similar to that of their left leaning and moderate peers who left the borders open in the first place. The Joe Biden administration repeatedly said it had done all it could to seal the Mexican border. And in four years, it allowed about 8 million people to enter the US illegally. It claimed that slowing things any further would require a change in asylum law and blamed republicans for not striking a legislative deal right

0:44:09 Matt: Yeah, a citation needed on eight million, obviously. We've talked about this before, but that's, I think he's talking like, yeah, he's like CBP encounters. I think he's saying about the number of people that they encountered and, you know, a lot of them of the total.

0:44:10 Thomas: Eight million eight million yeah isn't the total estimate of how many people are here legally like just the the biggest estimate isn't like 20 million or something or

0:44:26 Matt: But yeah, if you're talking about during the Biden administration, maybe three million

0:44:28 Thomas: That's what I'm saying if the total is that many over the course of however many decades the idea that biden in like a year let an eight million or whatever yeah he said four years okay okay, fine.

0:44:32 Lydia: Of decades

0:44:35 Matt: All -time record yeah yeah um yeah so and and also a lot of them did not enter illegally and that's that's he doesn't of course want to get into that kind of nuance but they were allowed in legally to seek asylum they just don't like that no

0:44:45 Lydia: But it turns out that border policy can be tightened from the white house the mass flow of people can be stopped the trump administration has shown that if there is the will to close the borders and enforce the law

0:44:58 Thomas: Break every single, no, enforce the law. If there's a will to break every single fucking law and be evil, then you, and still it isn't quote unquote being done. I mean, people are still going to get through here and there, but like, yeah, it's, it'S the idea that that's enforcing law. We covered this before, Matt. I remember you telling me like, it's such a bullshit thing to blame Biden. I mean, Biden bent from, from the rights point of view, like like to blame Biden for an open border. He, he bent over backwards. He was way further to the right on the border than, than anyone here would be comfortable with. And he stopped because the law literally, right, man, if I'm remembering this right, it, he got to a point where it's like, well, this is the law. I can't really do anything about that.

0:45:40 Matt: And and you know again compared to trump he was looking pretty good but uh yeah no I agree of of course. And

0:45:43 Thomas: Of course. Yeah. But then the point was he went to the furthest extent to the law, essentially the law stopped him. And then he's like well then change the law and this guy's like this this fucking guy said like oh change the law you know like what do you mean he's supposed to just break the law? And then Trump comes in and breaks the law. And then it because of the Supreme Court and because of our system gets away with it. And, then people look at that as like oh I guess you could have done that. You know it's like what?

0:45:50 Matt: That's right. That's it. Yeah. Well, yeah. Yeah, no.

0:46:09 Matt: And Trump was trying to use INA 212F, which is like, it's an extremely broad thing that they claim you can use to pretty much shut down immigration completely. And the D .C. Circuit again and again has stopped him from doing that. The Supreme Court even did not completely go with the way he was using it. But, you know, very inconvenient. The courts are doing this. But but that's how it is. That's the law.

0:46:29 Lydia: The question of how to reverse the law breaking requires the same attitude. Yet even Trump recognizes that the challenge is immense. Quote, it's a very difficult thing with the courts, he said in April 2025, noting how much success detained migrants have in using appeals to delay their removal.

0:46:45 Matt: So that's not what he was noting. I looked that quote up because I remembered when he said that about the difficult thing with the courts. The complaint that he had in April 2025 in that Oval Office meeting was he just found out about an immigration court. He was getting mad about the concept of immigration court. And he literally said, you can't give all these people trials. You can't let them see a judge. He actually says that, right? And that's the difficult things with the court. It's like, well, this is going to take years. If we have to put them through court, we should just deport them.

0:47:05 Lydia: My gosh. Yeah.

0:47:11 Matt: So he wasn't talking about I found the quote he wasn't talking about appeals he was talking about the trials the due process those

0:47:14 Lydia: Interesting. On a good day, ICE has managed to deport a maximum of 1,200 people, meaning it would take decades of sustained effort to remove the number of illegals who came in during Joe Biden's presidency alone.

0:47:22 Thomas: Good day. Fuck you. Yeah if you use a made -up number. Sure. Yeah. What

0:47:31 Lydia: Trump originally set a target of one million removals per year, and ICE naturally has managed only a sliver of that.

0:47:37 Thomas: Does he mean ICE naturally? I wonder what does he mean ice? Does he mean like ice naturally? Has only like are there underachievers or yeah or does he mean like naturally without extreme measure I actually wonder what do you think he means there ice naturally has managed only a sliver of that because it I think based on the tone of the article that's him saying like because these people never actually follow through with what they want naturally ice only managed a little bit of that but like dude one thing you could say is like they're trying their asses off like Like, you quote unquote gotta hand it to ICE for trying their fucking, they're trying.

0:47:43 Matt: Lizards it's a weird use of that I don't know either yeah there's no comma so

0:48:12 Thomas: And then this is, this is yeah, Douglas Murray being like these lazy sacks. They're not even fucking trying to be evil. They're nicht, they aren't even, bro, do you even Nazi? Like, come on.

0:48:08 Matt: Yeah and they've got all the money they've been given so much money yeah has

0:48:22 Lydia: Man, I think I take your second hypothetical there like a little more. I think that it's like because of the way the system is, naturally, they're only able to deport a certain number of people.

0:48:24 Thomas: You think so? And

0:48:35 Lydia: And those are the the things that should go away.

0:48:35 Thomas: ICE naturally. I don't know. Yeah, maybe. I really don't. ICE naturally has managed only a sliver of that. ICE naturally, no

0:48:42 Matt: Anybody tried telling us to put people on buses and drive them to the border I think that's that's the real question here this

0:48:47 Thomas: One thought of that? Have you ever just thought of putting the magic juice in the rocket thing yeah yeah I don't know and I yeah I could go either way I I kind of lean toward mine but maybe I do think if it was ice naturally maybe he would have put a comma in there if it was so maybe that's an argument for for what you're saying yeah ice naturally is major only slipping yeah that's a weird thing to say isn't it all

0:48:49 Lydia: Simplify. Yeah, I know. He's British, so I don' t know. Yeah the

0:49:09 Matt: This sentence is is this is sounding what

0:49:11 Lydia: Pressure to maximize those numbers helped lead the administration toward the sweeping raids and aggressive tactics that have now helped undermine deportations altogether.

0:49:21 Matt: Do you want man what are you what are you trying to do here because

0:49:23 Thomas: Right well what are you saying I thought you were just saying the opposite yeah so

0:49:24 Matt: We need aggressive tactics and sweeping raids but you know if we do that then people won't like it but but we should get the mandate I know it's

0:49:29 Lydia: So why are are you writing this article what's the point yeah

0:49:32 Thomas: He really is doing the jetpack thing he's like then they did it bad and that didn't work so you need to do it with do it millions of people yeah but the jet pack way so no one gets mad

0:49:36 Lydia: The magic way yeah given

0:49:38 Matt: Well you need to get an electoral mandate to do the thing that nobody wants you to do that they got mad that when they watched you do it that you want them they should want more of it

0:49:49 Thomas: That's what what an idiot like what are you talking about yeah

0:49:53 Matt: This is is why I want to read it. How about people

0:49:54 Lydia: These realities it's clear why politicians across the political spectrum prefer to embrace amnesty republicans and democrats have done this in the past as have most governments across all other western countries there are various ways to guild this fact without calling the situation and quote quote, amnesty. In the UK, quote, indefinite leave to remain has remained a legal nicety, as has the granting of asylum to people who are too difficult to remove.

0:50:19 Matt: Who qualify for asylum?

0:50:21 Lydia: Yeah, that's really rude.

0:50:22 Thomas: Kind

0:50:22 Matt: A lot of the people who get it are probably qualified.

0:50:23 Thomas: Of left that out wow

0:50:25 Matt: Too difficult to remove.

0:50:25 Lydia: Too difficult to move.

0:50:27 Matt: And also, inconveniently, very afraid to return to their home country. It's good to get killed or whatever. So yeah, those

0:50:32 Thomas: The good pickup on that it's creating silent people too difficult boy okay yeah

0:50:33 Lydia: All such policies inadvertently increase the likely flow of illegals in the future by suggesting that law breaking will be rewarded and is certainly preferable to the lengthy and costly process involved in entering any Western country through legal means.

0:50:51 Matt: Processes definitely exist. Yeah, this is a time-honored thing about if you do any kind of amnesty. And again, the Republicans supported amnesties exactly once under Reagan. That was the one time Democrats have pushed it. And there have been very small amnestry programs along the way. Um, but you know, he's also, it's interesting because he's very informed by British politics and by European immigration politics, which are very different from our immigration politics in a lot of ways, just naturally for lots of reasons. Um, But a lot Of the same stuff, um,

0:51:14 Thomas: Matt

0:51:20 Lydia: Yet many people in the communities most affected by the wave have begun to demand a firmer response. British villages that are about to be completely overwhelmed by the placement of illegal migrants in their neighborhoods have started holding token, quote, referendums to declare independence from the UK. This has happened in places like the quintessentially English village of Pittington, which has a population of 350, but is about to have 1,200 male illegal migrants placed down the road.

0:51:48 Thomas: Is that true 1200

0:51:50 Matt: You might be, it might not, you'd be surprised to learn that that is not an accurate, uh, depiction. You might've heard about the Pittington thing. Actually, I think even Pittingdon in itself might make a good where there's woke sometime, but, um. It is true. There's a very small town and they're not happy about the fact that they're going to be housing asylum seekers at a military site. It's gonna they're gonna be they're not coming to town um they're going to be you know I guess I don't know how far down the street but um but they they this little town voted to secede from the uk is like a symbolic vote um because they didn't like it yeah um yeah now

0:51:54 Thomas: Male huh okay because of that oh boy million

0:52:19 Lydia: It is imperative to deport many of these newcomers because in no country has there been any democratic mandate for such population changes. If Joe Biden and Kamala Harris had announced in 2020 that they were about to allow 10 million people to break into America, the presidential election would have swung the other way yeah

0:52:36 Matt: It's 10 I thought it was eight just juked that up all right oh

0:52:37 Thomas: People yeah weird yeah where did we get those extra Extra two million.

0:52:43 Lydia: Deporting illegal migrants will also be necessary as long as generous public benefits exist as they are certain to in every western country you can you can either maintain

0:52:52 Matt: Certainly he hasn't lived here very long as he because

0:52:54 Thomas: I don't think you've met us. Hi, we're America.

0:52:56 Lydia: You can neither okay what in every country in which illegal migration has happened on a large scale the numbers of arrivals have overwhelmed social housing social security and the welfare systems that exist where illegal workers have taken up work they have done so on the black market undercutting the salaries acceptable to native-born or legal migrant workers because

0:53:03 Thomas: -hmm. We have neither, so. Oh, boy.

0:53:26 Matt: We won't give them work permits and that's the literal reality we want them yep

0:53:28 Thomas: Because the employers often want it that way, yeah.

0:53:31 Lydia: Capitalism and maximizing profit yeah not long ago trade unions fiercely opposed illegal immigration on this basis but in their alliance with the modern left, many have gotten on board with open borders to their members' detriment.

0:53:33 Matt: Permanent underclass also a lot of unions now have a lot of immigrants in them that's he doesn't mention that either but

0:53:46 Thomas: What? Also, there's no meaningful open border. I don'T know if he's talking about Europe or something, but in America, there isn't a meaningful group of people who want open borders, like literally. There just isn't. It's like the, yeah,

0:54:01 Matt: It's also not yeah there's not access to welfare either but

0:54:03 Lydia: Don't think I can think of a country in Europe that also has like an open border policy. I don' know. I mean, except for like if you have the EU. Yeah, exactly.

0:54:09 Matt: Except the eu itself between yeah between the

0:54:12 Lydia: Between the countries if you have the E .U.

0:54:12 Matt: Countries but that's different yeah are

0:54:14 Lydia: Yeah. Finally, there is the simple issue of fairness. It is generally agreed, especially in the U.S., that a small amount of selective legal migration can benefit society. This reflects the three central facts around migration. Immigration can work if the volume is manageable, the speed is moderate, and the people who arrive passionately wish to integrate into the society in question. Absent all three of these things, a society will face either revolt, collapse, or both.

0:54:40 Thomas: Yeah, man.

0:54:40 Matt: Those the three central facts? I'd never heard that before. Three things I just made up.

0:54:45 Lydia: Yeah. To describe this issue as existential to the West is to understate things, and yet one government after another continues to drop it into the quote too difficult to handle bucket.

0:54:55 Matt: It being mass deportation. Let's just remind you.

0:54:58 Thomas: Also it's, it's to understate it. What was that book you said you wrote 10 fucking years ago, which is the demise of Europe. Is Europe gone? Is it, is it wiped off the map now? Maybe it's not as existential as you think.

0:55:05 Lydia: Yeah yeah also when he says it's in the too difficult to handle bucket as opposed to his plan which is get some buses go pick them up and then go drive them to the coast done you did it yeah did it this is especially ironic in light of the fact that left-wing governments like andy burnham's in britain are convinced that their policies can change the course of of the global climate.

0:55:17 Thomas: Hit the switch on your rocket boosters and fly. God is so dumb.

0:55:23 Matt: How hard can that be? Yeah. Yeah,

0:55:34 Thomas: What the fuck did that? Okay. What, what?

0:55:36 Matt: You got to throw that in.

0:55:37 Thomas: Yeah.

0:55:38 Lydia: My prediction is a gloomy one. Nations burdened by mass migration won't get serious about reversing the trend until the situation gets far worse, when constant low-scale or significant mass-scale atrocities are carried out by people who should not be in the country, and when the hearts of even the softest swing voters begin to harden. Nobody can predict when that day will come. But it will come, and the leaders who fail to address these issues will have to answer to an angry public."

0:56:03 Matt: It's never actually happened in the United States. We've never had a mass terror attack carried out by people that weren't supposed to be here. I'd be very surprised if it ever did happen. So yeah, that's how he has to end though, his fear, because he's trying to support a policy that is fundamentally just unspeakably cruel. And I don't think, even in his fantasies, I don'T think he's actually played out what it would actually look like, especially in the U.S., if we had actual mass deportation, let alone, I mean, of course, he does not mention the economic self -harm that we'd be doing, like the absolutely, yes, that's

0:56:31 Thomas: Didn't you hear about the buses matt he definitely has thought this through buses

0:56:34 Matt: It's the cheap and easy, yep. And all those jobs will be immediately replaced and the houses will keep getting built and everything will be fine.

0:56:35 Lydia: Yeah I think

0:56:36 Thomas: What

0:56:42 Lydia: We got to take our third break though before we close it out

0:56:42 Thomas: An idiot yeah let's take that third break and then uh yeah exactly so thank you to our top hall of famers bob blah blah blah podcast philly basement bar says we should take off and nuke this site from orbit it's the only way to be sure E.T. elect thomas smith president american honkytonk bar association Baltakatei Philip Kizer the Bonnie Willis what was that again oh bonnie wallace this says willis but uh what

0:57:04 Lydia: Bonnie wallace I it's wallace but maybe they misheard us yeah I Think it's bonnie wallace that that's from dan patrick she's the the person who goes around to all the yeah

0:57:10 Thomas: Was that from the yeah the bonnie I thought it was willis now whatever Coryn_Lann land you would know better uh String of unpronounceable characters Malaika Chandler David in Brooklyn RhondaTheDork.com Milo Meadsong a rouges oh okay how did I not notice that it's a ruges or did I say that before but argues the plural form of footnote kind of like attorneys general should should be notes, feetsies, Chris Waltrip, Big Easy Blasphemy, hors d'oeuvres in the court before we report, Sam Donow, Classic libtard, FRED R GROOTHUIS, and Mitchell, our top patron. Ooh, Fred is closing in.

0:57:32 Lydia: I don't yeah yeah

0:57:45 Thomas: Holy moly. Ah, love Fred.

0:57:45 Lydia: Yeah was that switch did that happen last time too fred in the number two spot I

0:57:51 Thomas: No, he might've just pulled past.

0:57:53 Lydia: Think he just pulled past hey congrats Fred

0:57:55 Thomas: Congrats, Fred. You're the best. Love that guy. All right. Thanks, top patrons. And we'll take that last break and get get to it uh right matt so what have we learned I

0:58:03 Matt: Think it's actually you know we don't do this enough I think in some of these pieces of going back and actually picking apart what we've just read and like actually talking about the thing because this was

0:58:12 Lydia: That's usually just kind of throw our hands up and we're like okay we have to go like we can't I don't want to do this anymore we

0:58:15 Matt: This is enough yeah well

0:58:15 Thomas: Thought I was but fine guess I'll see myself out

0:58:18 Matt: We're doing it piece by piece but I

0:58:20 Lydia: Do it as we go through but yeah but never like a reflection mm

0:58:24 Matt: Mean I just want to point out that this is somebody that these people think is an intellectual And he's publishing in one of the leading conservative publications in the United States right now. And this is the best argument he has simultaneously saying this is extremely unpopular. And the more you do it, the more people hate it. But also the only way to do it is to get a mandate, like a big mandate. And then you're just going to have to go ahead and do it.

0:58:45 Matt: But also it's what everybody wants, I guess.

0:58:49 Lydia: What is his position here like it's it's so confusing in that article because it seems like he also simultaneously wants to call out Republicans for not doing this but then if he's saying that the constituents don't want them to do that then aren't they actually doing the right thing by like doing what their constituents want

0:59:05 Thomas: I I think he's trying to say, boo -hoo -hoo, everybody's going to, like, don't worry about, yeah, like oh, I'm so tough because I can look at suffering and be heartless about it and that makes me tough, you know, I think that's kind of what it is, like don't worry about pictures taken of people crying or, you know, in this country, video footage of people being shot, don'T worry about that, that's nothing and

0:59:10 Lydia: But in a British accent yeah go ahead I'm just kidding yeah right

0:59:13 Matt: It's even worse. Right. Right.

0:59:27 Lydia: Right you should come to expect that there will be yeah mm -hmm mm -hm right

0:59:33 Matt: And I also want to point out that he does the usual bait and switch that all these people do, where he's talking about, well, the rule of law demands that we do this. It's so important that we follow every law to the letter, which we never do in any other way. But he's also talking about these newcomers. And the headline is about mass migration, because that's what it's really about, and about population changes. That's really what all of this is. That is what it comes down to, is I just don't like some of these people. Well, a lot of these people. In the clip that we saw, that's

0:59:56 Thomas: It should be illegal for me to be unhappy so follow the law I've

1:00:02 Matt: In that clip in the Doha thing, there's a point at which he says, you know, well, I've seen more burqas in London than I've seen in Doha. And I don't think that's probably true, but also like, whatever. I mean, it's, it just depends what part of London you're in, but yeah,

1:00:15 Thomas: Been to london I don't yeah you know burkas I

1:00:16 Matt: I actually worked in an immigration office in a major Muslim area and I didn't see that many, but I mean I just, and I haven't been to Qatar, I don' t know, but I just find it hard to believe, I do' n't know. But he just says things like that and he says a lot of things. But his ongoing point and the reason, and And what's particularly interesting, and there's nothing really that interesting about Douglas Murray, except for how unknowingly attracted I am to him, but he's just got this thing in which, what? I'm sorry.

1:00:18 Lydia: I don't remember saying any yeah

1:00:19 Thomas: don'T remember seeing any I mean there might be a few yeah

1:00:41 Matt: He's my type. What can I do? I'm so sorry.

1:00:39 Lydia: Matt no oh my god

1:00:44 Matt: Can you find me like a clone of Douglas Murray? I don't know. Anyway, so he does the thing, well, and yet I still don't meet

1:00:41 Thomas: Poor matt yeah uh let's get him in a re -education camp matt gets out way more than we do

1:00:44 Lydia: We got to get you out more yeah that's true that's truth oh yeah what what's wrong you're not going the right places

1:01:00 Matt: Tailored suits and British gentlemen, but good, you know, or even boring if you're even been neutral. Yeah.

1:01:02 Thomas: All if you listening are like douglas murray but not evil let us know right in

1:01:08 Matt: If you can talk to me about calculus.

1:01:08 Lydia: If you have a British accent.

1:01:11 Matt: Yeah, so as it is, though, we are looking at the typical kind of dodge of the guy who's like, well, I'm not racist. I'm not white and athelist. I mean, I don't know what you're talking about. I don' I'm just talking about culture. I' m just talking abou our national sort of makeup.

1:01:11 Lydia: Matt's into that. Yeah

1:01:24 Thomas: I'm just saying all the same exact things that those people always say and they're big fans of me it's just coincidence wow

1:01:28 Matt: And if you say that I'm any of those things, I will see you and in some cases I will win. There was a clip, the observer lost a lot of money recently because he was talking about, specifically, he claimed that he was taking only about members of Hamas in the UK. I can't imagine how many of them there really are, celebrating on October 7th. And he was talk about how, I don't want these people here. And was talking to the former prime minister of Australia in an interview. And he's saying, well, it's like if you had people in your country that hated Australia, that they're in your county. He was clearly talking about... Well, I didn't want to get sued, but one might might surmise that he was talking about a much broader population. And the observer did use the quote somewhat out of context, but he was so mad that he thought the observer might be suggesting that he didn't like a whole group of people when he was just talking about, you know, a very small group of People on that one day. The quote doesn't sound like that at all. But this is what I'm talking about. Like he's vindicating his rights very, very, whatever, it's his right to do that, I guess. But yeah,

1:01:35 Thomas: He's won some lawsuits more

1:02:23 Lydia: So funny that like he is so up in arms about stuff like that and then can just you know get things wrong in any article that he writes. He can just invent numbers or completely mischaracterize the poll that we went through. Like it's just to be on both sides of that is really obnoxious. Yeah

1:02:40 Matt: Yeah, no, and like he is feeling it's exactly the kind of stuff like There's no direct institutional look to something like the Center for Immigration Studies, but it's the same stuff. This is exactly what they do, too, is they come right up short of – and they're happy to ally, as is Murray. They're happy TO ally with people that are pretty openly bad, but they're just not going to say the thing. And the stuff he's saying is bad enough. But, yeah, it's whitewashing.

1:03:02 Lydia: But but he definitely has his hands in american think tanks as well like I talked at the outset for you know his involvement on uh in uk conservative think tanks but he's affiliated with the manhattan institute um very deeply and you know on other places as well so I guess just he has his hand in everything yeah

1:03:22 Matt: I mean, just to review the names of his books, I just have the list here. The Strange Death of Europe, colon, Immigration, Identity, Islam.

1:03:30 Thomas: And more hysterical as you go we're all dying we're to help help 9 -1 -1 yeah emergency

1:03:34 Matt: It is. Because it goes from The Strange Death of Europe, which is a reference to a book from the 20s about the strange death of the Liberal Party, The Strange Death of Immigration, Identity, and Islam. And then the next one in 2019, The Madness of Crowds, and he's talking about gender, race, and identity, because of course he is. And then The War on the West. So we've gone from The Strange Death of Europe to The Madnes of Crowd to The War on the West. And then in 2025, it becomes On Democracies and Death Cults, Israel and the Future of Civilization. Apparently, Israel is not the death cult in this title.

1:03:52 Thomas: He's so embattled yeah I was gonna say I'd almost agree with that in a certain way but that's probably not how he means it

1:04:07 Lydia: I don't think that's his angle please

1:04:10 Thomas: What an asshole well um let somebody somebody email in help matt not make a big mistake you know just help me we need a posh sounding british man really badly help no just kidding uh all right well that was a lot of fun and frustrating as always and fuck that guy, that racist he sucks but thanks Matt for the breakdown, thanks Lydia and thanks most of all to our listeners and supporters make this show happen you're the best and we'll see you on Friday

1:04:30 Lydia: Frustrating as always. There you go.

1:04:44 Clip: This has been Opening Arguments, produced by Thomas and Lydia Smith, with editing help from Peter Baird. The intro is by Thomas Smith. This outro is by Matt Cameron. Support the show at patreon.com/law. Contact us through Patreon or openarguments@gmail.com. Make sure to follow our blue sky at OpenArgs. But most of all, please share the show. Thanks for listening.