Did Mamdani Wipe Little Italy Off the Map?

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:09 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Opening Arguments. This is Vapid Response. Wow, back from the dead. It's only been like a couple weeks, right? It feels like forever. But it's Vapид Response 39. Oh, it should have been 40. Yeah, we were off for a little bit, but we're back. I'm Thomas. That over there is Real Life Immigration Attorney Matt Cameron. How are you doing, Matt? Oh yeah sure sure and producer lydia how you doing yeah yeah that's bad luck bad luck for you why don't you dump that loser go out with me uh yeah yeah it was fair had several skin surgeries but uh uh, yeah,

0:00:22 Matt: Hmm. Ciao amici. I'm doing good. We're here to talk about one of the most pressing problems in America, anti-Italian discrimination. I've been waiting for this one.

0:00:41 Lydia: Hi, pretty good. I'm married to a 40 year old now. That's weird. I don't even know what to say about that. Jeez. Oh wait, same guy. Oh dang. I got him a sunburn. That was my present. Yeah. So, yeah,

0:00:51 Matt: But best birthday of my life. I hope you're enjoying it. All right. Okay. Awesome. Yep. Yep, yep.

0:01:04 Lydia: We're testing his skin resilience at 40. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, what's the deal?

0:01:08 Thomas: When you don't go out in the sun ever, it turns out it's not, the sun's not very gentle on you. Um, but also what's the thing where it's like time flies and yet the two week off we have been, we've all forgotten how to do every component of fabulous response. How does that work? What, what, what's going on? It's like, what's going on. This is the rule now.

0:01:32 Thomas: But anyway, uh, what are we gonna be talking about today yeah

0:01:32 Matt: Well, today we've got a delightful pairing. Of course, as usual, we've got a fun surprise amuse-douche, which we'll be getting, too, from one of the country's greatest douches, being as douche as possible. And we have got a pair of stories. Yeah, that's right. Just trying to do that these days. It's one of my favorite things, is just throwing things at you. And then we have gotten a pair of story from the stories from New York City and from Boston, Massachusetts, my own hometown, both involving anti -Italian discrimination. We're going to check in on the state of it. And I want to say up front, of course, that some of my best friends are Italian. That is true. It's not even a joke. I love the North End, which we'll be talking about in Boston. I love my Italian culture and my Italian people, but I think we can pretty much agree as of 2026, there isn't really any such a thing as anti - Italian discrimination. Or if there is, I haven't seen it. I don't know. Maybe. Ooh, yes. That actually will come up in one of our complaints that we're talking about, our very, very long complaint. Yeah, it's a fascinating look at what happens when white people claim discrimination. That's where we're at. There's some where there's work material here for sure. I would love to come back and just do like a deep dive for Gavel Gavel on the Boston lawsuit, especially because it only wrapped up this week, which is why I wanted to talk about it.

0:01:45 Lydia: Study your heart, 40 -year -old. Yeah yep of course it will

0:01:48 Thomas: This is an amused you say as usual but this is an amuse douche that's got a great length to stay secret from this douche from the from me can't wait all right love it well it's I don't know sort of like how if you say you know maybe they shouldn't do genocide then all of a sudden you're anti -semitic I think if you stay like maybe Columbus wasn't that cool then all the sudden you anti -italian I guess. I don't know. Yeah, I'm pretty sure. I could have guessed that. I did guess that. They don't have that many things to go to.

0:03:06 Thomas: I don't even know what you're talking about. It's going to be interesting. Boston v. Italians or what? Italians v. Boston. Yeah. Yeah, Italian wines. There you go. All right. Well, I'm excited. I can't wait to find out to the douches too. That's my favorite thing. Total surprise. Well, we've got to do our usual stuff. We'll take a break, but we've gotta thank our patrons, our Hall of Famers, our all-time greats. Love doing it. Each and every time that we do Vapid Response, we thank those patrons and they get to tell us what to say and we can't really argue about it. So yeah, it's true. That's good point. It's mainly me. Thank you too. Dylan Love, Rebecca, Bewitched, Beclowned, Bewildered. My house is a mess but I read a lot of books griff the tired 1l matthew cutler autistic streamer twitch .tv slash mtc underscore streams gary the seagull good stuff I miss gary nope no way am I reading that you monster unremarkable amina donna treadway mother of heritans mike lapinski go hang a salami I'm a lasagna hog I feel like man was that an older one I hope these have refreshed. Maybe because we took time off, people didn't believe in us. Darn. Cyanitis. Youngest on Supreme Court is a meaningless distinction when they're all old enough to have grandkids. I guess. I don't know. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court is the one place where they are getting younger, but it's for a bad reason. You'd almost rather them be older there, but younger everywhere else. Not unless they're on the left. Now Now it's an arms race. It's, I think it's a pretty easy distinction. When it's somebody who is standing for election, then younger would be better. When it'S somebody who gets a lifetime appointment, then I'm fine with them being older. So they're not ruining our lives forever. But, you know, great preponderance of the evidence. Always love that. Last train to Skanksville. The plural of footnote should be feet notes. Feet notes. Okay. Or just feet note. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, you don't get to, you know, get to greedy pluralizer over there. You don't Get to Pluralize All of It. Apprentice of Adventure and Charlie Kelly, attorney at Bird Law. Thank you so much. Top patrons. Those are the folks that, again, are at that $5 level and above at patreon .com slash law for at least a month. They're the backbone of our economy and they make the show happen. We thank them so much and now we'll take a break and get to an amuse douche. So surprising. I don't even know what it is yet.

0:03:07 Matt: But yeah, well, you'll find out. But it is the other way around. But yeah. Historically, that has not worked out for either side. But it's going to be a good time. I promise. This is going to be a fun one. We can not think about the week's news. And of course, we'll come back to the week news on Friday because that's what we do. But I just wanted to, I couldn't resist when I saw these two stories could pair so well. That's what we're here for is delectable pairings of terrible shit. That is right. Careful what you wish for. For. We don't want a Doogie Howser Supreme Court justice. That's not really good for anybody. Maybe. Even then, I don't know.

0:03:11 Lydia: Italians v boston yeah yeah they get to tell thomas what to say specifically you guys so yeah Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah, unless it's actually Neil Patrick Harris. Yeah right. Right. Oh yeah. I think you have to pick. I think if to pick which part.

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0:05:59 Thomas: All right. Cat's out of the bag. It's well, no, it's not right now. Yeah. Who's this? What a douche this random anonymous oh okay yeah yeah he is peak npr he is like built for npr it's got the voice it's kept everything uh so an amuse douche am I hitting play okay uh boy sep bill maher and louis ck and a bunch of other comedians who were oh yeah we cover him all the time on where there's woke it's hard to not just cover him him all the time. He's the most frustrating piece of shit. A little narcissist. Hate him. Yeah. Oh, that's right. Oh yeah. Check that out. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you know I went to Mark Twain Elementary? I'm, I've got plenty of Mark Twaine. Yeah I love Mark Twaint. Every quote of his is just it's so funny I love it uh all right here we

0:06:01 Lydia: It's this guy, whoever that is. Okay not the douche yeah oh that's cool like all the people he slept with yeah nobody cares about him now yeah yeah I know I was gonna say this is like an extra dagger in in the heart for you yeah yeah oh

0:06:04 Matt: That is Steve Inskeep. He's very nice, and he has a lovely voice of NPR. Not the douche. Well, I have to set this up for a second. So we're going to be looking at Mark Twain Humor Prize award-winning Bill Maher, who just accepted this award at the Kennedy Center. Of course, nobody wants to go to the Kennedy Center right now for obvious reasons. Uh and I so friend of the show hannah sent me this clip and said I had to stop and watch this um she'd actually heard this on npr because they put a clip of it and it is pretty unbelievable what he's going to do here even for bill maher who we know of course loves bill mahr more than anybody um but sure so annoying uh but mark twain of course one of the greatest writers and greatest humorous in American history, absolute legend. Just to name one thing, I love to mention this every time I mention Mark Twain. Did you know that in his autobiography, which is a really famous autobiography. He died in 1910, and he left a bunch of stuff that could only be released a hundred years later. So in 2010, the actual authorized uncensored biography, and then more came in 2013. Just all the dirt, he had a lot of dirt to dump that he waited. Now, nobody's going to be reading Bill Maher and well, he's going to care about Bill Maer in a hundred years, right? Not the same guy. Yeah, exactly. Right. So let's hear what he has to say about how he feels about accepting a prize, which by the way, has also been accepted by people like Eddie Murphy, Tina Fey, Jon Stewart, all of whom I think qualify as Mark Twain, maybe not level, but Mark Twainsque. They're up there.

0:07:49 Matt: Oh, sweet. He's great.

0:07:57 Thomas: Go okay but

0:07:57 Clip: ...and is often controversial opinions. Bill Maher, thanks for welcoming us here. I really appreciate it. And congratulations on the Mark Twain Award. Oh, thank you. I had a great time. I want to begin by asking about that. What does that mean to you, to be on that particular list of people who've had that award? Well, you know, every year would go by and I'd be like, you know, it's a lot of these people I'm huge fans of. But we're nothing like Mark Twaine.

0:08:24 Thomas: I am jesus christ you've never said anything funny yeah I want to see him dig himself out of this one he's deeper than mark twain's corpse right now huh okay wow jeez what is he talking about yeah what I yeah jesus christ it's so bad like what is he so I guess yeah mark twain was anti-woke I guess is what he thinks yeah yeah no he probably used it in a woke way they're probably at the time and they're like, this woke shit. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Unless he's like, finally, they're awarding someone who's not afraid to also say the N -word. Maybe that's where he's finally. Tina Fey's never said the N word that I know of. You know, it's finally someone who embodies the racism of 1890s or whatever uh has gotten the mark twain award yeah it's so stupid I I can't imagine I can'T imagine being proud of this award who decides it is it trump or is it who is it a panel of yeah yeah but who is that now did he replace it with his yeah but when's tony hinchcliffe's uh Mark Twain Prize yeah okay well that guy sucks is that that is that it yeah what a douche imagine having to talk that to that guy for 42 minutes poor steven stevenski the sopranos clip oh first okay all right classic oh yeah wait you've never

0:08:24 Clip: You know, Billy Crystal. I couldn't be a bigger fan. Not nothing like what you know more they're actors I was like well yeah or you know but me you think you're like Mark Twain have you seen my work religion bashing hits both sides political comedian you don't have the same mustache or hair no not that part but you feel that that is is that the model that you've been going for all this well obviously the award is for anybody who has you know at the apex of their world of comedy yeah it's a comedy award yeah and there aren't a lot of other comedy awards there's a million

0:09:04 Matt: No, this is kind of funny. So this is pretty much it, but to me, it's that moment. No, we won't. Yeah. The moment though, where he's just like, well, have you seen my work? Of course, I'm way more like Mark Twain than Tina Fey or Jon Stewart, obviously. Come on. Yeah, he did use the N -word a lot, so I guess he's got that going. Yeah... Yeah, I was actually, I went back to listen to some Mark Twain's autobiography after hearing this, and I accidentally got to the chapter where he's talking about how much he loves N -word shows. The poor reader had to just go through a lot of that. Again, yeah, it's the late 19th century. But yeah, still, even with that, Bill Maher is no Mark Twaine. Just never going to be. Yeah. Imagine in 2026 being proud of yourself for going after both both sides which I'm not even sure mark twain did but I don't know I think it's actually well I mean it did go at some point to bill cosby so there's that uh but it's um but before they knew um I don't actually know who decides it but the important part is yeah it's the um it's awarded by the kennedy center and of course nobody wants to be associated with the kennedys center they can't get anybody to play it right now yeah can't be long now yeah yeah this is the world yep that's it that's all we got well classic amuse-douche just real short and quick keep it easy yeah stevens yeah he really is struggling to keep the keep the conversation going um so all right we will not be as we dive into this pair of anti -italian pieces so we have first soran mamdani uh who committed the cardinal sin of reprinting a map that the eric adams administration came up with I don't know if you heard about this one uh let's pull up our first piece here just for context uh yeah well yeah we got to play this brandon's clip first of course um yeah just I just remind everybody of why we're here there

0:09:04 Clip: Music awards and acting that's a whole season yeah it starts in January and ends with the Oscars ever the Directors Guild and this guild and these people

0:09:13 Lydia: Boy a man of quick wit and can't get words out of his mouth okay unbelievable yeah yeah man oh boy could be could be just the board yeah well so he's the chair right so trump appointed himself as chair well I mean the board appointed him as chair and then it's a number of sycophants and yeah exactly next year it's next year is when it is yeah yeah yeah exactly spoiler alert for me I've never seen a sopranos

0:09:16 Clip: And England and comedy this is kind of it and comedian is not the word we would you know what it is I'll tell you what it's anti-italian discrimination Columbus Day is a day of Italian pride it's our holiday and they want to take it away. Fuck them. But I never liked Columbus. In Napoli, a lot of people are not so happy.

0:12:24 Matt: You go silvio dante love it love it silvia um so yeah anti-italian discrimination it's become such a meme now but it is still a thing that people continue to say I mean it was to the point that it was a joke 20 years ago on The Sopranos when he joins like a board to try to fight anti -Italian discrimination. And to be clear, of course, there has been a long history of anti -Italian discrimination, anti -Catholic discrimination, and Italian immigrants got it pretty bad. A couple people were lynched. I'm not saying it didn't happen. I am just saying in my lifetime, I am not aware of anti Italian discrimination being a problem. And I am sure that somebody is going to prove me wrong, having just said that out loud. But certainly not in the 21st century, at least, has not seen a lot of anti -Italian discrimination. So it's just interesting to me to see identity politics, because again, white identity politics are identity politics. Yeah. And this thing with Mamdani was kind of fascinating to me because obviously, Mamdini is a flashpoint for a certain kind of person in New York. And it's a map of immigrant enclaves. That's what it is, right? So they did not include Little Italy on the immigrant enclave's map. The Eric Adams administration to put this together as like an illustration. They decided to do it as like a full map. I don't really know what the purpose was. Yeah. He personally, he sits down and yeah, that's right. Famously, actually, as you learn in the finale of The Sopranos, Little Italy is now very small and not a lot of Italians, like recent immigrants from Italy live there anymore. So I don't think you can call it an immigrant enclave in the classic sense. It did exactly what immigrant enclaves are supposed to do, which is it kind of created a place for people to meet, to live, and then to spread out into New Jersey and Florida and everywhere else that Italian -Americans live now and the rest of New York. So here's a piece from some Italian guys expressing their opinion about this map. And the extent to which, well, this will set the theme, I think. You'll see. He's got his big mirror eraser out and wiped it off the map. Yes. Oh, I've got an answer to that, actually. It's about current immigrant enclaves. People are coming over right now. They actually added a few of them, including Little Odessa for Ukrainians. Just FYI. Literally, that's all we've ever done with every generation as a race, the immigrants that come before us. But immigrants, the cesspool, that must be. Steve Bannon, yeah. The swarming Moroccan immigrants, yeah, right. Yeah, you're so right. Before he called for a genocide of Italians, obviously. Yeah I'm gonna push back on that there is an entire community that was that was brought here under duress and sold uh in the streets

0:12:50 Thomas: The mario brothers dominate the box office being embraced yeah yeah it's their favorite thing to do when they're not bashing other people's identity politics they're just using identity politics unironically okay yeah is this sorry is map making one of the like mayoral duties cartography and map making we've released the new map that I don't what is this just a social media post or is this all right the washington examiner which is of course our newspaper of choice uh mayor mamdani why did you erase little italy uh yeah we've got some great italian names there they're like I think that was the only qualification is that like you have to have the most italian name to be a part of this all right so what happened yeah nice okay it's got got a link to the Washington examiner category of immigrants. And I can only imagine. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Bannon. Yeah we see American citizenship is being exploited. Yeah, so it's pretty funny to just like, I don't know if that's like a bot did that or something, but it's like celebrating today's immigrants. And then it's, like, oh hi, yeah, would you like to to read how immigrants are horrible good stuff okay who cares so I just want to say like I as a reader of this article what are you talking about like they kind of said what happened but like if it weren't for you guys I'd be like what what you have to say what's happening in your article right like am I supposed to have watched this video or because all it says is is these communities were omitted from your discussion of New York's ethnic neighborhoods. Okay. Yeah. And then that's it. Then we've gone four paragraphs later and I'm like, what happened? What's the, okay. Yeah, none more so. Yeah yeah. Okay. I don't, yeah. Sounds like you want the most credit. Yeah you, okay, you just said they all, all right, whatever. Whatever what what's happening what map this is the first mention of a map what I know you guys know but again coming to this blank like what the fuck are you talking about what happened I guess it must be yeah yeah yeah why yeah that's not unless you want to take me to the category of maps you know they didn't link to that yeah oh yeah culture oh here's a link down here they're being demolished any comments I'm curious we did get a link here I'm gonna see what the actual link is ah okay mom donnie's map of new york city immigrant neighborhoods outrages italian community okay oh yeah yeah an asterisk oh uh oh oh it was under adams I

0:14:43 Lydia: Yep right to sign on to their op -ed mayor zoron mamdani little italy will never disappear neither will the historic irish greek or jewish neighborhoods that helped build new york Italian Americans are not a footnote in New York's story. Neither are Irish Americans. Neither are Jewish Americans. Yet these communities were omitted from your discussion of New York. New Yorkers are entitled to ask a simple question, why? Oh, yeah, that's cool. This is not about Italian Americans alone. It is about whether the mayor of Newark believes every community that built the city deserves equal recognition or whether history should be selectively curated to advance a political narrative. There is nothing wrong with celebrating today's immigrant communities. Every generation has enriched New York with new cultures, new traditions, new businesses, and new dreams. They deserve to be welcomed, celebrated, and embraced. But celebrating today'S immigrants has never required erasing those who came before them. Oh my god. Yikes. It's being exploited. Moroccans are swarming, yeah. Yeah. All of our hate piece is about immigrants. Yeah. A city secure in its identity honors every chapter of its history. However, a divided city teaches that recognition is a zero -sum exercise, that one community's heritage must fade before another can be celebrated. That is not unity, it is division. The mayor is more than the chief executive of the city. He is also its chief steward. That stewardship carries a solemn obligation to preserve the complete history of New York, not merely the portions that conform to the politics or ideology of the moment. Each community arrived in the face of prejudice. They didn't set it up at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Each community Yeah.

0:17:53 Matt: Sure yeah yeah presumably the examiners run a dozen stories about the map already and you're supposed to know it's uh no nothing so they really don't understand the the idea of an immigrant enclave I think they really just don't understand what But I might as well just link to the actual map real quick.

0:18:03 Lydia: Also, isn't this supposed to be about unity? Like, and right now you're just trying to divide to make you guys number one or, yeah. Each helped construct the New York we know today, none more so than Italian -Americans. The history of New York is cumulative. Every generation added another chapter. No generation has the right to tear pages from that book. No mayor has that right. The Italian American Civil Rights League was founded in 1970 because Italian Americans refused to accept being stereotyped, marginalized, or erased from the American story. More than 50 years later, that mission remains unchanged. We recognize the warning signs shown in your map because our community has lived them. We know that a people's identity is not erased in In a single dramatic act. Yeah. But then they also, like, don't even bother linking to it. Like, that seems foolish on their part. Yeah. It disappears gradually. When its history is ignored, its symbols disappear, its neighborhoods lose their significance, and its contributions are quietly omitted from the public memory. This is very dramatic. We will gladly celebrate every new generation that comes to New York just as generations before welcomed our families. We will celebrate every culture that contributes to this extraordinary city, but we reject the false choice that honoring today's communities requires forgetting those that came before. New York's greatness has never come from replacing one people with another. It has come from recognizing that every community added something indispensable to the city we all share. If the history of one community can be quietly omitted today, another community's history can be omitted tomorrow. Every New Yorker, regardless of heritage or politics, has a stake in preserving the integrity of our shared history. Because once we accept selective memory, as your map has promoted, we begin to lose our collective memory. If Little Italy and the historic Irish and Jewish neighborhoods were omitted inadvertently, then correct the record. If they were omitting because because they no longer fit your vision of New York, then say so openly and allow the people of this city to judge that vision for themselves. History belongs to all New Yorkers. It is not yours to edit. Respectfully.

0:20:37 Matt: Yeah. We should just look at the map real quickly because, yeah, it is just for context. Because think about what these people under other circumstances would be saying about the failure to assimilate, right? About how these people should go assimilate. And so Little Italy is proof that American assimilation works, that you did have a place that was an immigrant enclave, and now Italian -Americans are all over, to our benefit. Again, I love Italian - Americans, and I love everything about it. But like, look at these, these communities are all places where if you went to them right now, you would find people from those places living there because they're immigrant enclaves. What's the, there's an asterisk on there. Yeah, that's kind of funny. Oh, source, New York City Mayor's Office of Immigrant Affairs, which, again, under Adams came up with this list. So yeah,

0:20:43 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, and here's the map. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

0:21:28 Matt: Yeah, Yeah. Yeah.

0:21:29 Thomas: Think of like new yorke as it like it's just all has italian stuff like new york new jersey it's just like part of it it's like a broader like you say it's like part that culture now I like the ones that don't have little before them that's nice like the ones that got to be a different thing like gianna gateway or koreatown that's good chinatown yeah some I feel like more of them should have gone for something like that you know is there another you know like play on word somebody work on something like Like that's, that's how, look, if you want more recognition, come up with a nice cool play on words or a neologism or whatever to, instead of just little, that is like to, you know, little Italy, actually that is the best one because of the sound. I will give them credit for that, like that has a nice sound to it. So anyway, that, okay, so how many Italians were killed by this map? Were they, yeah, wiped clean. Yeah, this is going to be helpful next time we go. All right, well, we will take our break and we will honor the memories of all those Italians killed in the Great Mamdani Map Incident of 2026.

0:21:47 Lydia: Yeah. Chinatown, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. Kiana Gateway. Gateway. Yeah, right, right.

0:21:48 Matt: Yeah. Just Chinatown. Yeah. It's big enough. Yeah, yeah. Just a lot of egos, I guess. I don't know. But I mean, again, and looking at that list, that is one of the coolest things about New York as a city, right? That they do have so much diversity. They have so many different kinds of immigrants living in the whole city. And that's something to be proud of. And it's very cool. And little by little, it's something we're proud of for different reasons. It is a different an enclave. Easy enough.

0:22:55 Thomas: And thank our Hall of Famers. This is the second third. Here we go. Thank you to probably a real person, Nick Fish, Thomas Rong, Lydia Wright, Lincoln Park Rules. Sure. A negative phenomenon. This next one's my favorite. You got to fight for your right to ex parte. Jay Sank, vehicular man's laughter. That's it. That's the joke. My kink is a tiny constable zooming in on my all right you gotta say it my tink my kik is a tiny constible zooming in my butthole and texting a pic of it to the whole supreme court there you go grab that one that actually has several several tie -ins to show that's not out of nowhere that that's got like three things like three jokes yeah to taint todd goes to the senate it david suther uh today's episode brought to you by the letter nothing thomas freeman cavalry cajun killer fraud fishy hates everything chris simpson worst timeline ever anonymous akila check out galena comic .com for a cool web comic there you go awesome thank you uh top patrons we'll take a break and then we'll get to the next holocaust of italians all

0:23:15 Lydia: Wow. That's why they're a Hall of Famer.

0:24:09 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:24:09 Thomas: Right matt here we go How many Italians did she kill? What are we looking at here? Wow, that's got to be pretty damn old then, right? And I'll say too, as vegetarians, Italian food, pretty decent options. I respect it. Love it. It's good stuff. It means a lot to me. Nice. Is this like the soup Nazi episode of Seinfeld? Do you like it still? Like, even though it's supporting, you know, bad cause, you still, you're going to fall in line and get your Italian food. Dude. Yeah. Oh man. Oh wow. Okay. Oh, this looks like a mugshot. Yeah, all right. Okay, hit and play. What the? He's just on a bicycle shooting. Okay that's

0:24:11 Lydia: I got Italian food there. Many years ago, I got Italian food there. It was very good. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Oh wow. Oh. Why is there a mugshot? Okay. What?

0:24:14 Matt: All right. So we're going to go up the Acela Corridor now to Boston, my hometown, to one of my favorite places on earth, the North End in Boston, which is Boston's oldest neighborhood and one of the best Italian enclaves ever. So again, I'm going to say nothing but nice things. Yeah. Well, you should when you're back in town. It's a good place to stop in. It is very classic Boston and just a great place to walk around. And notably, for the purpose of the story we're about to talk about here, a very, very busy place where people spend a lot of money. You'll never go at any given night in the North End and not have it be completely packed. So yeah, lots of options. Absolutely. And unfortunately, one of the plaintiffs in this case actually is some of the best at... You know what? I'm just going to promote them because I actually love this restaurant. Terramia in Boston has some of the best vegetarian Italian food you'll ever eat, and they are unfortunately a plaintiff in this lawsuit. And I want to say that I have to separate my feelings about these wonderful restaurants. I love every one of these restaurants that's named here, including the one we're about to talk about in this video, unfortunately, which may or may not have... I really don't want to be banned from any of these restaurant, Thomas. That's my main concern right now. I was a little reluctant. And after you watch this video you might be a little concerned for my safety even talking about this. So what we're going to see is the owner of Monica's, which is actually the best sandwiches you'll ever eat in your life. And he's no longer the owner Monica's. But let's just check He's one of the plaintiffs in this case. So let's, well, let's find out.

0:25:51 Clip: 54-year-old Patrick Mendoza is accused of firing a gun in Boston's North End Wednesday night. New surveillance video obtained by WBZ shows the moments the shooting happened. ACCORDING TO COURT DOCUMENTS MENDOZA RODE BY ON HIS BICYCLE AND SWORE AT THE INTENDED TARGET WHO WAS ON THE SIDEWALK. MENDOSA THEN ALLEGEDLY SAID I'M GONNA GET YOU AND FIRED HIS GUN.

0:26:11 Thomas: Larry David.

0:26:13 Clip: YOU CAN SEE THE VICTIM DUCK BEHIND A CAR THEN RUN. I THINK THERE'S NO RESPECT FOR ANY HUMAN LIFE ANYMORE. NICK PICARIEllo owns Modern Pastry and spoke to WBZ earlier this week. HIS PASTRY SHOP WAS NOT THE INTENTED TARGER.

0:26:23 Matt: Yeah. So yeah,

0:26:25 Thomas: Oh am I pausing it? I don't know what's happening. Okay jeez. Oh come on. How about, I mean the casualness of a bicycle shooting I couldn't that's well yeah yeah it seemed you could tell from what was going on yeah yeah and yeah and witness protection yeah so yeah let's do that the whole deep voice thing yeah oh wow oh wow this is a lot so yeah just pulling this up here uh yeah oh why don't we have that many rats here is this just too hot do they just die they just cook yeah we don't really have I mean I could be wrong but we don'T really have rat problem a pizza rat is you know I would take a pizza right yeah question this might be dumb are there literally only italian restaurants in the north end is that all there is okay okay fair enough three hundred seven yeah curious to see what their damages theory is okay I would imagine they must have their they must Have numbers or something where they're saying we got less so they would already you would think they would have to do less business than comparable restaurants at the same time period right they don't have anything like that oh wow Oh, okay. Huh. All right. Oh, no, no. Okay. Yeah.

0:26:27 Matt: You have to understand for non -Boston people, Hanover Street, the heart of North End, Modern Pastry, one ofthe best and most famous pastry shops in the state, pretty reckless thing to do. And he went on the lam after this. He ended up pleading guilty and getting a two and a half year suspended sentence. He cut off his GPS bracelet just before he did that. And He still somehow didn't go to prison. He no longer is the owner of Monica's, but he's still a named plaintiff in this case. And I just want to point out this case was filed in 2022. This happened a little after that. And the reason I want to talk about it this week is because the First Circuit slapped this down finally today. But there has been an interesting series of things that happened before that. Picking this case apart, again, we could do a few hours just picking apart this complaint because it's a lot of fun. But I want to dive into what happened here. So if you want to, yeah, bicycle drive -by. Yeah. Yeah, it's like a 20 -year feud. And I'm just going to say with no further comment that there's a reason I played a Sopranos clip at the beginning of this and move on from that. So the complaint, let's pull that up. You'll see that there is a very long list to delicious restaurants. Again, wonderful places. Please let me in. Yeah, make my voice deeper and maybe slow me down a little. That might be nice for everybody. So, all right. A lot of plaintiffs. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So that's the first thing I want to mention because the First Circuit and the District Court mentioned this a lot. It is 374 pages. A Lot of Those Are Exhibits, but it is way too long for a complaint under the Rules of Federal Procedure. It is so much and it's so wasteful. Like there's so much to go through here. But so yeah, let's just take a look. Those are all basically known. So they all pooled together. I'm guessing they probably spent at least 100K in legal fees to see the city of Boston. And what they're suing the city Boston over is that, now think about the entitlement of this. During COVID, the city, as many cities did, allowed them to have outdoor dining, which means they were able to use public sidewalks and public streets that belong to us that we pay taxes on and park on. And the North End, for those who haven't been, is extremely dense. It's a wonderful place, but it is a very hard place to park. And I wouldn't recommend ever driving there for any reason. But parking spaces are an absolute premium. And so the city, rightfully, treated them a little differently than the rest of the city when they were thinking about setting this up, because they started to realize more and more. And notably, as we'll find in the complaint, a lot of neighbors, a whole lot of people in the North end did not like this program, even though obviously outdoor dining is fun. Everybody loves outdoor dining. But it's also loud and it attracts rats and it's also taking up parking spaces that they're going to want. So let's check out paragraph one, just the setup. I can read a few things here. I've got a few things marked. You're not missing much. I promise. Yeah, that's true. Legend. So there's the setup, yeah. Almost all, I think they estimate in here something like 91 % of the restaurants in the North End are, there is one sushi place, maybe two sushi places now. But yeah. No, and again, Again, strong recommend. I love the North End. None of this is trashing the North End or even these restaurants. I just think this lawsuit is ridiculous, and these lawyers shouldn't have brought it. I even actually respect at least one of the lawyers involved in this. But let's go down to number eight, paragraph eight, and you'll start to see where this is going. It's so long, so unnecessarily long, a little dramatic, as with the previous piece. And I will say, again, remember, this is a bustling, this is like the most successful neighborhoods, excuse me, the most successful restaurants in one of them. One of the most successful neighborhoods in the city, right? They are not hurting. I don't they're they're making good money yeah exactly oh no all the time no for hundreds of pages no this yeah no there's they really don't have a lot on fax no a lot of grievances but not a lot number nine let's check out number nine that's one of the other numbers and down to 12 right yeah so we don't need to read this but just to set it up uh the city required the north end to pay the restaurants to pay $7 ,500 each for the impact fee and monthly fees of $480 for each parking space they were using. Again, parking spaces being an absolute premium in the North End. I don't think that's unreasonable. They didn't make anybody else in the city do this, just the North End. But it was also because it was a compromise with residents who really didn't want this. Yes, somewhere. Some, there's a lot of, yeah, potentially. And there's also a lot of resident parking. But in Hanover Street where this is affected, I believe that'd be a lot of meters. Let's go down to 16. No, there is no active discrimination going on. But that would would be crazy. Who would do that? Here we are. I know. I know you did it. I keep going. I know. It's a lot of those. I love how as a matter of fact, they're just stating resident feedback. It was just one person said that. That's a fact. 19, this is what really set them off. So keeping in mind for context that the annual St. Patrick's Day breakfast is when the politicians get to stand up and let loose and make stupid jokes.

0:26:45 Lydia: Wow. Wow, that's crazy. Do you know, like was there did he know the guy at all or was it like oh okay well I don't know a 20 -year feud okay wow oh okay got it matt do we need to like blur out your face for this episode like I'm worried about you yeah oh wow 374 pages first of all yeah that's like a lively v baldoni complaint like what are you guys doing yeah wow yep yep oh interesting yeah they don't want to deal with it it's just just too hot. They're all hiding inside too. Oh, so cute. This dispute involves the city of Boston's unequal, unfair, and discriminatory treatment of Italian restaurants in Boston's North End in its administration and operation of the city's outdoor dining program in 2022, 2023, and 2024. The plaintiffs are 21 Italian restaurants on the North End and the North end chamber of commerce. The defendant is the city Boston, which treated the North and restaurants differently than all restaurants across the city in both its application of the city's outdoor dining program in 2022 and in its refusal to even consider outdoor dining applications from North End restaurants in 2023 and 2024. Wow. Why? That's interesting. The North End Italian restaurant owners bring this action against their beloved city of Boston, which is their home, with a heavy heart because they are a vital part of the ethnic fabric that makes Boston the remarkable, diverse, multicultural cultural city that it is today but the plaintiffs believe that over the past two years the city has backed them into a corner leaving them with no choice but to resort to the judicial system to achieve a fair and just resolution of a controversy that impacts their livelihood their dignity and their values yeah yeah yeah I think that's a great point too like it's not like there aren't people in their restaurants I guess it reduces like like uh maybe five tables that you'd be able to have outside. Oh, they don't. Wow. This unfortunate dispute arises out of the city's misguided and ill -founded decisions to mistreat and discriminate against the North End's Italian restaurants, knowing it would inflict financial hardship on them just as they were beginning to recover from the crisis caused by the pandemic. During the pandemic, the city'S outdoor dining program was essential to the very existence of restaurants citywide. Yeah, because people weren't allowed allowed to dine inside. So those were the only tables anybody could have, really. Are the parking spaces metered over there? Do you know? So then that would be a loss of revenue for the city as well. Yeah. Not surprisingly, the city's announcement of the North End plan stunned and outraged the North end restaurant owners who had no idea the city had contemplated discriminating against them. Several restaurant owners and city residents strenuously protested the city's disparate treatment. They questioned the fairness of the fees, asking why they should pay for services the city already should be providing, such as street sweeping, sidewalk cleaning, police patrol, and rodent control. Some restaurant owners openly challenged the legality of the North End plan, going so far as to suggest the filing of a lawsuit against the city. Why? Sorry, why is that even a sentence in here when you filed a lawsuit? It's so unnecessary. Like, you have 374 pages. I think that's an unnecessary sentence. The city's plan generated immediate backlash from the North end community. Angry and disappointed residents contacted city officials and opposed the penalties and restrictions. One resident denounced the city's actions, claiming that, coupled with the possible elimination of Columbus Day. Jeez. It could be viewed as signaling an unnecessary attack on Italian Americans. Yeah. Yeah, OK. The next day, March 21st, 2022, at the annual St. Patrick's Day breakfast, Mayor Wu added fuel to the fire by stating she was, quote, getting used to dealing with problems that are expensive, disruptive and white.

0:32:57 Thomas: Did we miss that? Where's the discriminating? Yeah. We did skip a few paragraphs. Did they, did they, nothing? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. First they came for our sidewalk space. Then they came from Columbus. Yeah, not really how you do it. Oh here we go yeah

0:34:37 Lydia: North End restaurant owners, including the plaintiffs, believed the mayor made disparaging comments that were racially and or ethnically biased and aimed at them and did not credit the mayor's subsequent explanation that her reference to disruptive, quote, white problems meant, quote snowflakes and, quote snowstorms. Oh, okay. Yeah. Yeah.

0:34:53 Matt: Snowflakes is you, you're the snowflakes. Yeah, it's funny. They are really picking on Michelle Liu who's a superstar, of course, and they're saying that Mary Walsh treated them different. Now, this is pretty funny, 27. We're going to get into this point a little bit more as we go down, but just to set this up. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Wow, you could be on the First Circuit. You nailed this. Yeah, the street sweeper thing is pretty funny to me. They actually follow it around. There's exhibits where they follow it around to different parts of the city to show it's not just in the North End. And as we'll see, when we get to more of the photos, I think there might be a little bit of trolling going on at the street sweepers, which I appreciate very much from City Hall. Yeah. It's pretty good. All right. Let's get on to 30. Yeah I know we're not reading much of it. Oh, so eventually what she ended up up with was because the residents just got so upset, they just banned outdoor dining in the North End finally, which again, that was the norm. That was what happened before the pandemic. They didn't have public streets being used for tables, which they were forced to drop because it was so bad the first time they filed it. This is the second attempt. Actually, the third attempt, because they did file an amended complaint, but the first full -on attempt they had to drop. Yeah, I know. Yeah. A deliberate ethnic affront. Just let go of Columbus. Please let go of Columbus. No.

0:34:55 Thomas: Well it is a double meaning she's obviously not just saying snow snow storms or whatever okay doesn't this just shouldn't you just like run for local government or something like why is this a lawsuit it just seems like problems you have with how they're doing local government yeah oh boy this is so long okay wait ban what what ban okay uh federal but how what does this do in your complaint like your legal complaint is like man and there's another complaint complaint what is that I don't know okay okay yeah what a what a random choice yeah yeah yeah that's a good point is it I guess I guess it was a a matter of Italian pride to like create

0:35:14 Lydia: City records show the city did not later allocate funds to provide mitigation programs and services to the North End pursuant to recommendations of a North End community committee. Worse, those records show The City instead used some of the funds to purchase an electric street sweeper for $552 ,000 in the summer of 2022 to advance the mayor's Green New Deal, which called for the electrification of the city's entire fleet of vehicles. The city, quote, expensed this high -priced vehicle to the 2022 North End Outdoor Dining Program, even though it was purchased for citywide use and would in fact be used across the city. The electric street sweeping was unrelated to any requirements of the North End Program. The city used proceeds from its controversial North End plan to promote a political climate justice agenda. Yeah. Oh, really? Oh, man. The events leading to the ban began shortly after the North End's abbreviated outdoor dining season had ended. Right. Right? At that time, there was a strained relationship between the city and the North end Italian restaurants. A federal lawsuit against Mayor Wu was pending. Again. Oh, OK. This is the second. OK. All right. Jeez. Yeah. Local and national media had published reports that were highly critical of Mayor Wu in the city. The restaurants had just been forced to pay a season's worth of hefty fees while the rest of Boston's restaurants participated in the program for free. And just one week after the North End's outdoor dining season ended, Mayor Wu announced that a new holiday, Indigenous Peoples Day, would be celebrated in Boston on the same day as Columbus Day. Many plaintiffs viewed Mayor Wu's act as a deliberate ethnic affront meant to overshadow or symbolically replace the only federal Italian holiday, since the mayor easily could have chosen any one of hundreds of other days of the year to celebrate the new holiday. Yeah, I wonder why she decided to, you know, pursue it then. Also, I mean, like the only Federal Italian holiday. But the The purpose of that holiday is not to celebrate Italy and Italians. It's specific to a single man related to an act he may or may not have done and not to all the acts that we know he's done.

0:38:25 Thomas: Columbus day I guess yeah I

0:38:26 Lydia: So, yeah, identity politics, you guys.

0:38:28 Matt: Actually,

0:38:28 Thomas: Don't know I'm trying to think it's kind of but like what was it always kind of a symbol of like for Italians that can be I just don't know about this very much like Oh, yeah, that's right. Right. Yeah. Hey, this is what happened with what's his name recently?

0:38:36 Matt: This came up in our conversation with Peter Kanellis about the way that Columbus was integrated and the way that Alito was there for just the right time in New Jersey and Trenton when they were just getting into the Columbus thing. It was like an early 20th century thing to start to get basically the symbol of Italian pride to push back against discrimination. They just picked the wrong guy. It's very unfortunate.

0:38:44 Lydia: Yeah. Graham Platner. Well, I don't know. We picked the wrong guy.

0:39:03 Thomas: Yeah, the Grand Platner holiday. We got rid of that. No, literally, literally. You know, it's the one that's a holiday, though, that we had

0:39:10 Lydia: I don'T know. Too many men suck. So this is a really. Oh, Cesar Chavez.

0:39:15 Thomas: To get rid of recently. Thank you. You. Uh, Cesar Chavez, you know, that's, I'm sure that Latino people would feel like that sucks that they chose the wrong person to honor there. But I think the response to that was amazing. I love how so much of our stupid media ecosystem and our political take ecosystem is like this fake version of what the left is, you now, and how they're like, they, they preloaded it with how all they're not, the left's not going to do anything about that. Because they don't care what's that they already got rid of it oh okay it's like every they already pre -loaded with all these firm bets about how like they wouldn't do anything about it no one was gonna care and it's we got rid that thing like that day yeah it's a big deal yeah and and it just got dropped man like no I don't know anyone who's I'm sure there's somebody but like I don t I've never heard of them who's defending caesar chavez and that's the way to do it man find another there's plenty of people to honor yeah yeah yeah it's it's these accomplishments are never just one guy anyway there's always someone else related that I'm sure you could pick up or you could honor the movement as a whole as well so honor the moment of genocide against indigenous people you know it's not and not any one guy did the genociding it's a team effort. We haven't already seen that because that's felt like all it was. Oh, wait, what is happening? Oh, factual, factual allegations. Okay. Okay, we don't need this. Yeah, this whole thing really does read like a book or something. It doesn't, it's not a legal complaint.

0:39:19 Matt: Yeah. Very Very unfortunate.

0:39:27 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. It's one of their guys. Yeah and it's so significant in California. The number of things that were named after Cesar Chavez is incredible. Yeah yep I'll tell you uh misogynists were but I mean yeah right right and she's one her one of his victims so Yeah. Yeah. You honor the movement. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Oh, geez. It's a hit. No, it's a textbook. Eighty one. A brief history of Italians in the North End. And then, yeah, footnote to a book, The Boston Italians. Yeah wow. Yeah Yeah. One such business, the Pastine Company, began in 1848 as a modest push car operation, eventually became one of North America's oldest family run businesses. Another, the Prince Spaghetti Company, was founded by Italian immigrants from Sicily in 1912 on Prince Street. Its national rise was due in part to its 1969 iconic TV commercial featuring, quote, Anthony and the phrase, quote Wednesday is Prince Spagetti Day. Oh, boy.

0:39:30 Matt: Yeah. Oh, yeah, sure. And no. Well, it's very easy because Dolores Huerta is right there and she basically did all the work that he got the credit for. So just name it all after her while she's still alive. Yeah, exactly. Sure. Yep. Who's probably better? That's right. Right. So, surely there's another Italian explorer we could be, I don't know, a less genocidal one. So get on to page number 81. We're going to see the section that the First Circuit called entirely unnecessary. Paragraph 81. Yeah. It's so much. Paragram 51. Yeah, I've never seen anything like this before. It is so good. That's where it all comes from. Yeah so So we're not going to read all this, but I just want to point out as you scroll down, look at how much history there is in this complaint. It just keeps going and going. And it's just the history of Italians. And again, it's interesting history. There's lots of other places you can read it. They, I mean, just to give you the top of page 22, check out the spaghetti thing. It's amazing.

0:42:01 Thomas: What does this have to do with anything? Yeah. Oh boy. They're closing in on you. Oh boy. Hmm. That's true. Yeah. Isn't that the opposite of what they want to be doing? Yeah, God, this is so long. Page 30, not even 10 % through the complaint. Yeah yeah yeah oh my god what and doing what what what's happening I don't understand okay okay yeah 192 yeah okay here we go yeah holy crap I think the court should be allowed to just to issue a single sentence response of TLDR, like too long, didn't read. Sorry. What's the meme where it's like, I ain't reading all that. Congrats though. Or sorry that happened or something like that. 247. Oh, page 230. Paragraph, paragraph 230. Matt, you're doing it again. Okay. Here we go. North End had no need for a new electric street sweeper. Gondor has no street sweepers. Gondar needs no street sleeper. And they weren't even Italian. Paragraph 247. Okay, here we go, we got some pictures of the street sweep. Okay okay. I got got them. I don't know. What is this? Yeah, I'm sure there's complicated ways that those get allocated if something breaks down or something like, come on. Don't know what that is. Sounds stupid. Oh my God. This is nuts. We're so not anywhere in this complaint. Now I'm not complaining about you, Matt. This ist just crazy how long this is. Okay. Yeah, what? Knowing the public government is shelling nevertheless arranged a private meeting with nura's leadership to occur at february 13th this

0:42:03 Matt: Who could forget that iconic phrase? Wednesday is Prince Spaghetti Day. This is boomer stuff. I'm sorry. It's Italian boomers. Okay. All right. We'll keep going. I'm going to get shot. All right. So let's get all the way down to page 27. And as you go, just appreciate as you continue to scroll about the facts that are just continuing to repeat. That's right. Yeah. And every time I eat in the North End, I'm constantly dropping food. I'm just that guy. So I'm sure they love it. So this is really funny. They go and they catalog it at page 26, 27. They catalog how everybody in the city is complaining about outdoor door and night dining. It's not just people in the North End. Everybody hates outdoor dining. I just think this is funny. Yes, what they want, exactly. I know. There's also another section about how the North End sucks anyway, which is really strange from the North end Chamber of Commerce in one of the best neighborhoods in Boston, and how it sucked before this and it's going to suck after this. There are literally whole sections like this. Yeah, anyway. Anyway, and then down, oh, I know. And then page 30, it gets pretty funny. So this is, no, exactly. We're skimming, we're going quick. And this, again, this could be a whole gavel gavel because there's so much funny stuff in here. But so one of the things they have to address, yeah, get some Italian representation. That's true. Get our token, New York Italian. But as it is though, they have a huge hurdle to overcome, which is that the democratic process has worked And people have been complaining for years about this in the North end and city halls listened to them. So they have to explain why these aren't real North enders and page 30 and 31. There's a whole long thing about how actually these are the bad people from the waterfront that are bringing all of this. And they live in expensive condos. They're not real Northenders and very few of them actually are even Italian. So what are, why are you listening to them? That's actually in here numbered one 24, numerous newer members, including members of its leadership are not Italian Americans. So we're just, playing identity politics all the way. Yeah, it does not. So yeah, they're trying to basically show that these are agitating outsiders that are coming in and causing these problems. Yeah, they are organizing to get them out because they hate Italians so much. That's what it is. Uh and then so yeah the page 31 begins the uh the north end has always sucked section as I call it uh pre -out pre - outdoor dining there are lots of quality of life complaints from the same people can you believe it they were they were complaining about traffic and rats and noise before outdoor dining so yeah that just keeps going and then we get down to uh 192 it just again I I do not want to read all of this it just yeah 192 page 192 is also an option if you want to go there. It has that many pages. But yeah, again, you get the entire history of this licensing program just in ridiculous detail. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, the comments. Yes, and yes. That's actually, yeah, that's going to be very much a part of both decisions we're going going to take a quick look at after the break. So again, I believe I counted five times that they cite this Merriwood quote because they hate it so much that she... Yeah. Sorry that happened to you. Totally. Exactly. Exactly, this is a perfect use for that. Check out page 247. We're just going to skip all the way... Oh, no, I'm sorry. Let's start with page 230. There's a really funny thing on page 230, and then we'll keep going. Yeah, just scroll through and you'll see There's so much. Wait, I'm sorry, not page 230. Yes, no, go back to it. Yes, I am so sorry. My fault. Yes, there we go. Yeah. So I don't think this is a word that we use in the 21st century. The court actually, in one of the sentences we're going to read, we won't see this, but there's a footnote where he's like, they used the word Hokies before. Don't really know what that's about. But yeah, that's just what they were called for the last 100 years. That's what we still call them because it's Boston. Yeah, so now we can get down to 247. you can finally see the very funny trolling of paragraph 247. Yes. Yeah, this is funny.

0:42:15 Lydia: Oh, my God. You know, Matt, I will say you have like you've created enough goodwill with the seagulls that I think they'll protect you. I'm thinking like you fed them. We have named ones, you know, pledging to the show. So yeah, yeah. What? Okay. Oh. And so they're basically like why aren't you getting rid of it everywhere is their position so weird page 30 nope nope yeah oh we could get Jenessa on protection protection yeah yeah oh wow yeah why does that matter yeah to make sure that the Italian restaurants can't have their additional four tables outside yeah and then that's going to ruin the business of these Italian restaurants and we will no longer have Italian restaurants in the city of Boston. Okay. Yeah. Paragraph 192. Okay all right paragraph 192 wow this is the sorry okay yeah again so they're just reiterating what they said before right so again the getting getting used to dealing with problems that are expensive, disruptive, and white. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Man. Wow. Yeah, yeah. Sorry that happened. Wait, wait. Page. Page 230. Oh, okay. Oh it's the street sweeper. Oh gosh dang it Matt. At. No, it's okay. I just was looking forward to getting through this. Paragraph 230. Sorry, one second. 230. The North End had no need for a new electric street sweeper for its outdoor for several reasons. First, the city already had a fleet of street sweepers that worked perfectly well for many years in the North End. Second, as part of the special North End plan, the The city hired several full time Department of Public Works employees known as, quote, Hokies to be stationed in the north end throughout the duration of the outdoor dining season. The Hokies sole job was to clean the sidewalks, the streets and the gutters. Third, the restaurant owners themselves were responsible for power washing the sidewalk's in front of their establishments and maintaining clean outdoor patio areas. I'm pretty sure that that's not like the employee position name like that you're being hired into as a Department of public works employee. Employee. Yeah. Weird. No. Paragraph 247. Oh.

0:47:46 Lydia: Once it acquired the electric street sweeper, the city painted or laminated it with scenery from the north end. The left side of the vehicle displays a scene of St. Stephen's Church on Hanover Street. The right side includes a scene of the Old North Church and the statue of Paul Revere. And the back of the vehicle shows a picture of the lamppost on the corner of Hanover and Parmenter Streets, adorned with signs of of cities and provinces in Italy, including Roma, Milano, Calabria, Venezia, and Torino, as shown in the photographs below. Why is that necessary to say? Oh, I see. Okay. Huh. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. 306. All right. Paragraph 306? Yeah. Why were they mad about that? Because Because they were going to be met at the elevator? Like, they think that that's – oh, knowing that the ban was going to happen anyway. So they're saying, like, she should have just not bothered to meet with them if she knew they were going to – huh.

0:48:17 Matt: This is funny! I mean, it is kind of trolling. It's like, here's the street sweeper that you paid for with the restaurant money, and we're going to put a bunch of Italian stuff on it, and then just drive it around the city. It sounds like it did mostly stay in the North End, but they had to stalk it. They followed it around for a day to see where it was sweeping, and they could not believe it was cleaning Causeway Street in the West End, which is like a mile away. Can't have it. It went as far as Alston, if you can believe that. Unbelievable. The other side of the city. You could still walk there, but yeah. Anyway, all right, you get the idea. It keeps going, but I think that's... Oh, wait, number 306. I have to show you just a couple of things. We're almost done. Yeah. Sure. Yeah, yeah. And also, just if you check out 301, one, there's also this email they're really mad about from the city. Because again, this group, and I know how these neighborhood groups are. I'm part of one myself. They can be very loud. They can Be very annoying when they want something done. And city hall has to keep them happy. They're voters, right? I mean, they're like, the restaurant owners are commerce, but these guys, these are voters. And so they're Really mad about this email, where the city was offering to meet them at the elevators and take them to a special meeting with, you know, the mayor's office or whatever, which again, is completely normal for constituency groups. And then we get on to 306. Yeah, there's special... They also, that they're getting special treatment, but they also acknowledge in this complaint, they also got a private meeting. So I don't know what they're complaining about, honestly.

0:50:02 Thomas: Newra they're the non -italian people that they're mad at right allegedly this is crazy okay

0:50:06 Matt: Right. Which also, of course, they have plenty of Italians in the group, but you know, they're going to ignore that. They're the waterfront people, but They're really also North End people. It's both. But yes, they, they have a lot to say because again, they have to overcome the fact that the democratic process that people banded together to stop the outdoor dining and the city hall to listen to them. They want you to discount that as much as possible. A 306.

0:50:07 Lydia: Right. Yeah. Hmm. All right. 307? 306. The city then executed its game plan. The meeting was held at St. Joseph's Hall on February 16th at 6 p.m. with armed Boston police officers lining the back of the church hall. Okay, this is so ridiculous. The North End restaurant owners were provided with no advance notice and were caught completely off guard when it announced the news. While the meeting was in progress, the city issued a press release at 6:35 p.m. announcing that it would conduct a robust, permanent outdoor dining program for every neighborhood in Boston except the North End. As to the North End, all on -street outdoor dining by the Italian restaurants was banned. With near -perfect planning and execution, the city fulfilled its prior retaliatory threats to shut down outdoor dining in the city's Italian section. Yeah. Oh.

0:51:13 Matt: Yeah. They are seriously in this complaint making an equal protection claim about Italian people, like Italian -American. They're really saying that, that that's what the protection thing was. So this is about enough. You're getting the idea. There's a whole section starting at paragraph 413, which is a paragraph in here, about exactly, you know, and there's a thing about how the North End actually still sucks after the ban, which is very funny to me, like when you're the North end chamber of commerce about how we still have rats and trash and problems. And again, the North is great and they would agree with you. Me saying that but it's just very funny that they they're in this position where I have to say that you know there actually were real problems before and after oh yeah yeah oh yeah so many and yeah they're asking for they're saying there's substantive due process issues with the way that they went through the process that there's and again this was like a an emergency kind of declaration like happened during covid with so many things yeah yeah yes so many also a lot of the exhibits are trying to show you pictures of neighborhoods they think are like the north end there is no neighborhood like the northern that's part of the argument as well as it's a special place right but there's nothing as dense with this few parking spots and they even like that they mentioned my street in east boston which I think is kind of funny because it's a completely different thing totally different place it's much wider yeah yeah uh they I like I said so many legal fees so much money here yeah yes finesse it probably probably yep

0:51:27 Thomas: Still not even a third of the way through the complaint do we want to at least say what they're trying to get we got just so it was equal protection oh and that's okay so that's at at page 126. I have to guess there's just pages and pages, hundreds of pages of exhibits, right? Or something. Okay. Maybe not though. Holy shit. No, maybe. Oh, okay. So it's about, okay, 200 pages ish. Okay, so the end, it's 203 pages and then 171 pages of exhibit. Jeez, God, who did this? This holy crap here's pictures of outdoor dining this is nuts like I don't who had the time to do this oh my god all right well we will I I maybe but this also reads like one of them just like did it or something you know what I mean like this reads very non -lawyer written and then they hired a lawyer to like make it into kind of a complaint yeah holy moly all right we'll see you next time Also, our final third, our top patrons of the Hall of Fame, patreon .com slash law. Thank you to Bob LaBla's Law Podcast, ET, Philly Basement Bar says we should take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Yeah. Elect Thomas Smith, President, American Honky Tonk Bar Association, Baltic Ate, Philip Kaiser. Look, the show isn't called Dear Young Dads. Happy birthday, Thomas. Yeah. Corrin Land, A String of Unpronounceable Characters, Maleka Chandler, David in Brooklyn, Rhonda to the dork .com milo mead song is fighting petty tyrants chris waltrip big easy blasphemy hors d 'oeuvres in the court before a report sam denow fred r growthius classic libtard and mitchell congrats top patrons you're the best we will take a quick break and then get to how this lawsuit was dealt with all right

0:52:22 Lydia: Mm -hmm. Oh. They, like, cite where you live, and they're like, Matt, don't you dare talk about this or we're going to come after you. Yeah. Yeah. And to file it. Yeah. Hanging on to that top spot, too. Man.

0:53:59 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:54:00 Thomas: Matt here's here's the uh what is it a motion to dismiss or the order on the motion to dismiss. Okay. And they managed to do it in 33 pages. So that's nice. Yeah. Oh, this, this one here. Okay, yeah. What a cool word. Unnecessary prolixity. Wow. Yeah, yeah, above it, a complaint is the standard, I guess, right? Should be short because unnecessary prolixity in a pleading places an unjustified burden on the court and the party who must respond to it because they're They're forced to select the relevant material from a massive verbiage. Yeah, no kidding. Oof. Oh, man. Yeah, somewhere in there is a short complaint of some kind. Your honor, you pick. You pick what the part of it that is short is and just look at that. Yeah, to say the least. Oh, boy. Boy. Quote unquote brief. Yeah. Oh my God. Jeez. Wow. Allowed. Yeah, what is, is there, is that a, anything significant? Why is it allowed rather than like granted or something? Is that different? Okay. It is. Is that a Massachusetts thing?

0:54:04 Matt: It's true uh And he could have really done it in one, but this is Judge Sorokin. He's very thorough in the district court. Now, this is the motion to dismiss the order that is going to be appealed to the First Circuit that we'll look at very briefly at the end here. We're not going to take too much time on this. There's some funny stuff in here. So he recounts the facts, basically, and he says, look, I understand why you're upset, but this isn't a thing a court can do. This is city policy. It's executive policy. There's all kinds of reasons that the executive would be making these decisions that I don't have any reason to review. I'm a judge. Much. Page six, there's kind of a funny footnote about Columbus Day. I just thought that was very well written. Footnote five. Yep. Kim Janey did it first. So I just want to point that out. Now, page eight is the part you're really going to love. This is really gratifying. So he's talking about the standard for rule eight, federal rules procedure, civil procedure eight, and about how, Oh, yeah. Prolixity. I love that word. Yep. And so rule eight does require a short and plain statement of the claim. We did not get that in this complaint, as you know. So this is very funny. Yep? Yeah, just cut out the first 14 pages, which again, is still too long. Yeah. So good. Good use of a semicolon. But this is on page nine of 33. So of course, he's going to go on. We don't have to go into too much more of this part of it. But yeah, he has to go because Yeah, it's just typical. Just call it and say it's allowed here. That's how we do it. So it just goes on and on. Yeah, 14. There's a quick footnote here before we, a couple of things before we move on and we'll go to the first circuit decision. But the two footnotes here are both pretty funny. Yeah, I just think that's funny. Based on also knowing anything about cities. Yeah, that's not a reasonable difference to draw that no restaurants outside are owned by white people. And the second one is also very funny. All right. Right. And one other note on page 29 that I thought was pretty interesting about, because for a substantive due process claim, you have to say that it would shock the conscience, right? So they're claiming they have this property interest in our streets that we pay taxes on. And he makes, there's an interesting sort of thing here. I don't know what, I'm interested to think about this, the summary of cases that do or do not shock the conscious. Page 29. Yeah. Now, Sacramento is mentioned. Check out the summaries of these cases. It shocks mine. Fine. I'm not familiar with the facts of that one, but that's pretty shocking. So cops shooting 16 -year -olds and moving into your house and refusing to leave. It's not shocking. So we're good with the streets, I guess. Okay, now we can skip over. So he basically goes through it all. The First Circuit is going to review this, and the First Circuit decision is pretty predictable, but there's some funny stuff in it. Let's go to, yeah, the allowance of this motion, because this is the end of the case for them. And they spent a lot of money to take it to the First Circuit Court of Appeals. And let's check out page 15. You're already very familiar with the facts by now of this case. But there's some more funny stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So the First Circuits characterization is pretty funny of the length. We're starting at first. Yeah, they have to use Courier New, unfortunately, at the First circuit. Not a fan. Do not like it yeah it's a middle of page 15 or I guess the first plaintiff's thing yeah career new should be illegal it should be absolutely and the one thing I really liked about the complaint is the complaint was in garamond so you know points at least some points yeah yeah I check out the footnote it's very good yeah yes yeah yeah the first circuit can can write very long things themselves. This is 36 pages, but they do not like this. I have never seen an appellate court go after a complaint quite like this before. Yeah, it's pretty specific. Anyway, and then finally, let's find a funny use of history and tradition at page 32. I thought this was great. Give me outdoor dining or give me death. Yep, there you go. No fundamental right impacted by the outdoor dining policies. None of this worked. So the only thing that they won on, they did have a remand, which I think is probably fair, is the $7 ,500 per restaurant fee. They said that might be an unlawful tax, but you just spent probably $100 ,000 in legal fees to get your $7 ,500 per restaurant. Yeah. They, again, kind of gave him the benefit, I guess, but they affirmed, yeah, no, I mean, he did go into a lot of detail about the other reasons, but they vacated the dismissal of count six because they thought there's something actually to that. So that was the tax thing. It's a good point. Yeah, well, they're only going to be be able to consider that claim so um yeah so there's that yeah uh but good lesson you know because I I tend to write a lot myself as you know and uh this is a good reminder you got to keep your complaints short keep it to the point yeah we'll see if they seek cert on this and if alito takes it but uh I don't know I mean he he has very strong opinions about columbus day so

0:54:08 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. The court takes judicial notice that the second Monday in October is a federal, quote, legal public holiday called Columbus Day. The Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution provides that, quote. Every state shall be bound by federal law. Therefore, local officials cannot repeal, eliminate or, quote replace Columbus Day or any other federal holiday. Of course, nothing in the text of subsection 6103 either requires state or local governments to observe Columbus Day or prevents local or state officials or federal officials, for that matter, from designating the second Monday in October as also commemorating other events, people or causes. Indeed, that is precisely what Mayor Wu's predecessor did by by designating The Second Monday in October as Indigenous Peoples Day in 2021. Yeah, unnecessary prolixity fairly describes the Second Amendment amended complaint. It contains well over 700 numbered paragraphs spanning over 200 pages. It is neither, quote, short nor, quote. Plain. This is one type of prolix pleading against which Rule 8 safeguards. Nonetheless, plaintiffs defend their SAC not by asserting it as either, quote short or, quote plain, but rather contending it complies with Rule 8 because the pleading, quote contains a short and plain statement in the form of a 14 page, quote introduction. Introduction. Yeah. This view of the rule is misguided. While laying out in detail the theory of a complaint along with supporting factual allegations can be helpful, the SAC goes substantially too far. Quote, a complaint should not be a preview of counsel's argument to the jury at the end of the case, and it should avoid unnecessary facts, descriptive terms, repetitions, argumentative language or characterizations here plaintiffs summarized several meetings and communications included photos of those meetings and of an electric sweeper provided a quote brief history of italians in the north end repeated mayor woo's statement at the saint patrick's saint patrick day breakfast five times quoted several seemingly random quote residents inserted multiple characterizations of quote legendary restaurants and quote jaw -dropping fees, described the media's response to the on -street dining ban, omitted virtually no detail of the entire course of events, and much more. The court has considered whether each or even many of these assertions are necessary to advance the causes of action set forth in the SAC. They are not. Yeah. To require the city to answer the S .A .C. as presently drafted imposes an unfair and unnecessary burden, one of the harms Rule 8 seeks to prevent. It also imposes a significant burden on the court as it attempts to sift through the allegations of the pleading. Accordingly, for this reason alone, failure to comply with Rule 8, the motion to dismiss is allowed. Maybe it's like a judge difference or something. Plaintiffs have not alleged that no restaurants outside of the North End are owned by white people or Italian -Americans. Based on plaintiffs' pleadings, that is not a reasonable inference to draw. Yeah. Yeah. The court notes no basis to infer discrimination against, quote, white people. The challenge regulations apply to any restaurant in the North End, and the restaurants not subject to these stricter limitations are located in all the other neighborhoods without regard to the race of its owners. Just at the top. Here at most, the city imposed fees for and later prohibited private restaurants in an especially dense neighborhood to operate on public streets while allowing continued use of the public sidewalks. That simply does not shock the conscience even when the city cut a different path in other neighborhoods uh let's see yeah oh yeah finding officers decision to engage in reckless high -speed chase after minor speeding violation eventually causing death of 16 year old motorcycle passenger did not shock The Conscience wow wow this other one affirming dismissal where police officers moving into owner's house without permission refusing to leave and subsequently harassing and threatening owners did not sufficiently shock the conscience wow another one affirming dismissal where towns denial of necessary permits to develop residential subdivisions did quote not rise to the level of behavior that shocks the conscience man yeah too familiar I think mayor woo said at a saint patrick's day breakfast yada yada yada. Man. Wow. Yeah. First, plaintiffs assert that their operative complaint does, quote, contain a short and plain statement. It's 14 page, 51 paragraph introduction. The rest of the complaint, they say, just elaborates on this short and plane statement. Thus, in plaintiff's view, their complaint comports with Rule 8's text, which merely requires a complaint to, quote contain, but not necessarily only contain, a short and plain statement. But this reading of Rule 8 would allow, for example, a litigant to file a thousand -page complaint as long as it included within those thousand pages some short and quote plain statement, even though the responding party and the court would be faced with the same burden of selecting the relevant material from a massive verbiage that Rule 8 seeks to avoid. For example, the complaint discusses the city's purchase of an electric street sweeper at least five separate times. This includes a nine -page timeline describing in exhaustive detail the street sweepers' purchase and use, two in -text photographs of the street sweeping, and three exhibits containing yet more photos. The complaint also describes an, quote, iconic 1969 television commercial for the Prince Spaghetti Company, celebrates the North End restaurant's charitable endeavors during the pandemic and includes multi -paragraph excerpts from articles criticizing the city's treatment of the North end. Huh, interesting.

0:58:41 Thomas: Okay, okay on page 14 oh you're looking at the footnote oh no is it no yeah yeah oh wow wow yeah yeah wow what the hell okay so they appealed the motion to dismiss itself or the actual okay yeah oh man I this one's harder to read uh oh wow it looks like it's written in notepad rather than microsoft word or something you know oh boy is this really just a font difference is that why this is so hard to read wow matt I I think you are yeah boy now I understand why you care so much about this this is I hate this wow they got good fonts they got good restaurants they're trying to win you over but they couldn't do it yeah sure wow what a this one weird trick yeah yeah yeah the footnote they're going after the street sweeper as well that no one has ever fucking heard of oh my god okay yeah

1:03:53 Lydia: Here, plaintiffs fail to identify a fundamental right affected by the city'S outdoor dining policies. Quote, substantive due process protects only those interests that implicate one of those fundamental rights and liberties which are objectively deeply rooted in this nation's history and tradition and implicit in the concept of ordered liberty such that neither liberty nor justice would exist if they were sacrificed. Quote, as a result, the interests protected by substantive due process are, of course, much narrower than those protected by procedural due process. The only right plaintiffs have identified is a right to the outdoor dining licenses, and, as discussed above, plaintiffs have not adequately alleged that this is a protected property interest for the purposes of procedural due progress, much less a fundamental right that implicates substantive due due process. We note also that no fundamental, quote, right to make a living exists for substantive due process purposes. Yeah. And then the defense of like that, well, you know, it was, you know, the introduction was short. Like, I imagine putting that in seriously, like trying to defend what you just did and, like, having to say, well, what about this? And then being laughed at multiple times. Oh, my gosh. Would he have to recuse himself? I don't know. Yeah. Yes.

1:03:58 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. But how does that work if the whole thing was killed because it was too fucking long? How do you also, how's that work? Did they just dismiss it for like tons of reasons or something? It wasn't just the length or, yeah, I just don't understand the interaction. So would they need to refile something that's not too long? Like, how does that interact? I don't get it. Okay. Okay. So that one happened to be short enough or something. Weird. Yeah. But this is nowhere in the neighborhood of, yeah, that is the longest. And like, it'd be one thing if it was something important. It's dead. It'S the, it'S the length combined with how dumb it is. Like just what are you talking about? It's so funny. Yeah, I love that. Well, anyway, this anti -Italian sentiment turns out the first circuit hates Italians too oh sure yeah like it would matter yeah oh my god that'd be so funny I can't imagine anyone going with him on this one oh boy

1:06:44 Matt: Uh yeah look forward to uh meeting you guys in the north end sometime go and see

1:06:48 Lydia: Oh, we can check out all the Italian discrimination

1:06:50 Thomas: I know now I don't want to go to any of these places you ruined it

1:06:50 Matt: What that's right

1:06:50 Lydia: Ourselves because we are going to do Boston and New York. We'll find something else. Yeah. That's okay. Okay.

1:06:55 Matt: Do some field research it's so good though they're like a movie set it's great you got to come visit yes there are a couple of great ones that we can uh we can go check out yeah ciao roma

1:06:56 Thomas: For me yeah okay are there any of them that didn't participate in this that we can highlight okay let's go we'll support them because this is so stupid. Oh, good times. Well, uh, thanks so much, Matt. I think, I don't know for the, for the crazy anti -Italian breakdown here. We firmly take the position, uh. That we are fully anti -Italian and see Matt Cameron, if you have any problems with that. Uh, all right. Um, yeah. Thanks so much for listening and watching. We'll see you for rapid response Friday, everybody.

1:07:25 Matt: 50 congress street come find me ciao