LAM1015: Outlaw

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:07 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Opening Arguments. I'm Thomas Smith and got some slightly different things happening episode -wise this week, so I want to tell you about it. A couple things happening. For one, Matt is on a vacation, sorely needed, I am sure. And I am also going to be out of town because I'm turning 40. Turning 40. So those things combined to be like, hey, it's going to Be pretty hard to get stuff out. So we've got something planned. First off, if you're a patron, you're probably not hearing this, actually. I'll have to put this somewhere where you can hear it. Now that I think about it. But if you'RE a patron you got 1284 early. So the part two of Jenessa that I promised early, that's available on patreon .com slash law. Well, everybody else, I'm giving you a full episode's worth of the Lotawful movies, Outlaw. That's 45 minutes of content. Yes, it's a preview, but I mean, it'S 45 minutes. That's like half the show, regardless. And it'S a lot of fun. This one broke us. And then for Friday's episode, we've mentioned we've been doing some Gavel Gavel. It's not out yet, but it's going to be out momentarily. And we'll do a cross post for that. So those of you who are not on Gavel, Gavel You'll get to hear some of going through the glorious decision, completely blasting Todd Blanche and Trump for their corrupt AF slush fund and full weird like pardon thing they did. It's not a pardon. It's like a we won't ever investigate or prosecute you. Anyway, that whole thing. The judge there wrote an incredible decision. So good that we spent hours reading through it for gavel gavel. So Friday's episode is going to be some selection of that. And then we'll be right back at it next week. So that's the plan. One more reminder. If you want to get on that Patreon, you can hear Monday's episode early. Everybody else, please enjoy 45 minutes or so of us losing our minds over the stupidest law show ever conceived of. It's incredibly bad. It's Outlaw. And reminder, the law novel movies are explicit. I sometimes forget to say that. So those have the explicit tag. Just a heads up. All right, thank you guys so much for listening and supporting the show. Really, it means the world to us. Without further ado, here is Lotawful Movies 1015 Outlaw.

0:02:32 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:02:33 Thomas: Hello, and welcome to Lotawful Movies 1015 Outlaw. I'm Thomas Smith. There's real-life attorney, Matt Cameron. How you doing?

0:02:41 Matt: Well, I'm proud to announce my retirement from the Supreme Court. I'm back to private practice.

0:02:45 Thomas: Yeah. Oh, boy. Yeah, you want to go where you can really make a difference.

0:02:46 Matt: That was a fun little run of it, but that's right.

0:02:51 Thomas: God. And Lydia, how you doing, I can't wait. I didn't even want to talk pre -recording because this is so good. This, folks, I am so excited for this Lotawful Movies. I don't know who found this or why or how or what.

0:02:51 Lydia: Oh my god, I'm fine. I'm reeling over here, actually. Yeah, Matt did. I don't know how Matt found this, but Matt found this as a topic, yeah.

0:03:13 Thomas: Yeah, so this show, Outlaw, I've never heard of it, I don' t think. I wouldn' t remember probably if I saw a preview.

0:03:17 Matt: Nobody has. Yep.

0:03:18 Thomas: It was on NBC in 2010, I think, right?

0:03:21 Lydia: Yes, NBC. Correct.

0:03:24 Thomas: And, yeah, yeah. And it's Jimmy Smith's, right.

0:03:22 Matt: I think they would prefer you didn't know that, but they tried to bury it.

0:03:28 Lydia: Let me just say, the ratings were so low for the first three episodes of the show that NBC was like, okay, we're putting this on hiatus. And then they released the next episode and it did not do any better and they're like all right it's canceled but they still had four episodes to release so they didn't finish production of what they ordered they only had eight of the 13 but they were like okay we have these other four that have to go out so then they just do this thing called a burn off and they yeah they just release them on saturdays until they were done

0:03:53 Matt: Burn off. I just learned about this. Yeah?

0:03:57 Thomas: Yeah, all that aside, I' ll be honest. I don't really think this show grading on the curve of network television for 2010. I don'T think it's like that bad. I donT know. I DON'T it's it's terrible, but I DONT understand why nor like everything on TV is terrible. You know what I mean? So like I DON't I've gotten to the point where like normal TV is so bad that I can't differentiate between like there's the bad that everyone's like, oh, yeah, that's bad. And then there's The Bad that everyone'S like this is the best show. I'M like, okay, those they'RE both terrible.

0:04:26 Thomas: So I DON 'T really know but setting all that aside I think and I'm I am I am prepared to back this up as the lawyer of the show I think this is the worst law of any lamb ever done I think it is because it's it's not just you know when they do the bull fight uh not bull fighting the uh bull riding thing there's a there's there's your score but there's the score for the bull you know because if you go out there and you just you get a bull that's like barely moving they're like okay well you were a 10 but like your bull was doing nothing. So it's not like you can win because of that. So they give the bowl a score and they give you a score. So there's some amount of luck in there.

0:04:58 Lydia: I didn't know that

0:05:00 Matt: I didn't didn't know that yeah it makes sense I

0:05:01 Lydia: That's what happened yeah wow sports sports yeah

0:05:02 Thomas: So this now the show bowl would be an example. No, that one was. Yeah that's quite bad too actually now I think about it. But this is trying so fucking hard at the law. Like there's so the bowl score on this because there's a lot of stuff that's bad law but there's like two minutes of law or you know it's it's not a huge thing. This thing is front to back. Every moment of it is law pretty much like it's like in every single line, there's something implied about the law incorrectly.

0:05:14 Matt: Guess they're trying that and the rest of it's sexual harassment

0:05:34 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But at least both ways, you know, they, they decide they're like, Hey, is Jimmy Smith's character sexually harassed? Yeah. Let's have, let's just put a female character in there. Who's just going to sexually harass a man the whole time

0:05:34 Matt: So plenty yes yeah in every line every line

0:05:47 Lydia: But but quick reminder all of this was written by a man though so it's still because a man is being weird yeah yeah

0:05:53 Matt: It's fantasy material sure

0:05:48 Thomas: For no reason. Yeah, no, I know. It's just like, no I wasn't trying to let it off. I was saying that was their dumb reasoning. Probably like, all right, if we do that, it's like, you know, it's equal opportunity. But this is incredible. It is so bad. I worry about what led to some human being thinking this is how anything works. You know, like it's just a bad sign,

0:05:58 Lydia: One for one well

0:06:10 Matt: The answer is cocaine that's the only it has to be cocaine it's so

0:06:12 Lydia: What

0:06:12 Thomas: I guess. I don't know like who who who thinks the world works this way and do they vote yes

0:06:20 Lydia: What's crazy too is so this was created by a guy named john eisendrath he wrote 34 episodes of beverly hills 90210. Okay. So like, I mean, it's not the first time he's written anything. He also wrote eight episodes for Alias. He was the showrunner. Yeah. Showrunner for The Blacklist and wrote eight and wrote 16 episodes of that. But his dad was an attorney. And so I'm so confused. What happened? Yeah. How?

0:06:36 Thomas: Way wow uh and he must hate his dad or something this is his revenge against his

0:06:45 Matt: Bad well this is I went looking because I had to know you've heard me get upset before this this one one actually that set me more than the rain well no not more than rainmaker the rainmaker was a terrible adaptation that destroyed the source material that hated the source materials that was so cynical about everything this is just slop for hogs and this is like they're just putting it out there like you hog you hogs like you know things that look like death penalty cases that get resolved right and so I had to look it up because I I can kind of forgive eisendrath who wrote this eisandrath wrote the pilot and only the pilot I watched a couple more episodes did you guys watch any more than one you're don't bother yeah I'll tell you about at the end you You should, actually. There are some awful plots coming up. And they're short, and they're bite sized. But Eisendrath is not a lawyer, like he said his father was. But Lucas Ryder is one of the producers, and he's been on a bunch of Law & Order and The Firm. He actually personally took up The F firm because he liked the book so much for whatever show they made out of that. The practice wasn't legal. Yes, an actual lawyer. He should know better. Yes.

0:06:57 Thomas: Dad yeah yes yeah yeah oh wow no I was too taken by this one I mean no I want to it's so

0:07:34 Lydia: He Was an ADA out of Queens County, New York. Yeah for for homicide investigations.

0:07:40 Thomas: Bad he can't have been involved at all

0:07:40 Lydia: But I will say, but I will say he was he was the writer for the second episode, Matt, which you said wasn't as bad. OK, interesting. Yeah.

0:07:47 Matt: Not as bad, but still bad, and still had some bad law in it, but not anywhere near as bad as the law in this episode. Episode. I will agree with you, Thomas. In my tenure, it is the worst that I have looked at with you guys. I have not seen a worse law thing. Yeah.

0:07:49 Thomas: Oh god it is glorious it's so so bad truly it's it's a wonder like I can't wait I I was going I've watched this two times I wish we had the script because truly every

0:08:06 Matt: I do have the script.

0:08:07 Thomas: Okay every single line like almost every singleline I I to not exaggerate every scene at the very least has several lines it's like well if they're not saying something directly about the law. They're saying like something that implies something wrong about the law?

0:08:07 Lydia: Oh, yeah.

0:08:22 Thomas: It's incredible. It's so bad. I can't wait. Oh, I can'T wait. We should get into it. Any other pre -thoughts or trivia or anything?

0:08:31 Lydia: The director for this episode, Terry George, he's Irish and he actually he got an Oscar nomination for Best Original Screenplay for Hotel Rwanda. He also directed it. So just, you know, keep that in mind if we need to critique the directing. Yeah. Um, this was also, um, partially done with help from Conan O'Brien's production company. So Conan O'Brien is listed as an EP on this. Um, yeah, yeah.

0:08:43 Matt: Oh, wow. That was a good movie. Wow. But I did notice that somebody asked him about, I did find a couple of interviews relating to this. There wasn't a lot of promotion or publicity on this show, but the little bit that there was, they mentioned that Conan was basically MII and not involved in this. I think he probably wanted people to know that.

0:08:43 Thomas: Oh, wow. So we're not allowed to make fun of them. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I believe it.

0:09:09 Matt: There is one detail that has has to be conan related that I'll get to later

0:09:10 Lydia: Well, interesting.

0:09:13 Thomas: It'S so great. And I will say it's not badly acted, really? Like it's, it's replacement

0:09:18 Lydia: Some of it is, but yeah,

0:09:18 Matt: For what it

0:09:18 Thomas: Level. Everything but the law is pretty much replacement level network TV. Like I don't, I don'T really, you know what I mean?

0:09:26 Matt: Is is is it is

0:09:26 Thomas: Like, cause again, network TV is bad. So I donT know, you KNOW what I MEAN? Like I'm, I DON'T think it's like much worse than that.

0:09:32 Lydia: I don't know. I think it's like the, yeah exactly. I think the percentage of the dialogue that, that, that is this bad, but

0:09:32 Matt: The dialogue usually this bad yeah it's atrocious

0:09:37 Thomas: We've watched a lot of network shows that are this bad. I DONT know. It's worse.

0:09:40 Matt: Oof I can't take

0:09:41 Lydia: Here's another angle though. Like All's Fair, when we watch that, the dialogue is bad, but it's also meant to be in some ways, right? Because it's my Ryan Murphy show. It's a campy show because

0:09:43 Matt: It it's campy it's cap right

0:09:49 Thomas: Why is that meant to be? But this isn'T meant to BE that. Oh, you get to, oh, so we need someone to declare their style.

0:09:52 Lydia: It's Ryan. It's just that's his style. Like like if it's a Ryan Murphy show, if it'S a Ryan Murphey show, like you expect camp, you expect like that is just part of his style. But this isn't supposed to be that. This is supposed to Be well, I guess I don't know. I guess I Don't know eyes and draft, but it never finds a tone, though, either like a consistent tone. But anyway, we'll get into it.

0:10:00 Matt: There's a style for sure I I think it takes itself seriously I think he's trying to take itself very seriously all the speeches

0:10:05 Thomas: How do you know? What is anything supposed to be? Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, it does a little but it's just so dumb. Maybe you're right. Maybe it's so dumb I can't take it seriously but maybe it wanted to be. I don't know. But either way, let's dig into it. Here we go. I'm scrolling along the whole time.

0:10:30 Thomas: I have it up because we had to watch this on YouTube. The only place anyone could find it.

0:10:34 Lydia: Yeah, someone uploaded the eight episodes. Episodes the eight right matt I think that's all that they have oh my god oh my God it's matt's favorite show uh yeah

0:10:39 Matt: Yeah I yeah I've watched four of them now um I say with regret yeah also I will point out just before we get started I did find the script for the pilot that was originally written by Eisen Drath it has a few differences it's like 90 % the same and a lot of almost all the dialogue is the same unfortunately it's interesting some of the changes they made I'll be noting as we go some of the changes because I watched it again and then I read the script just right after I'd watched it

0:10:45 Thomas: So bad. Hmm.

0:10:56 Lydia: Interesting I love that

0:10:59 Thomas: Oh, this is great. Yeah. Cause I don't get to watch it with a DVD commentary, but if I could, I would. So this is the best, next best thing.

0:11:05 Lydia: Yeah all right

0:11:06 Matt: So yeah yeah factually correct by the throw so

0:11:17 Lydia: So we open up the show at a state correctional institute out of waynesburg pennsylvania okay nice

0:11:17 Matt: They got that right I

0:11:17 Thomas: Wow. Why, why, why did they bother? Okay.

0:11:20 Matt: Know and also pennsylvania is a moratorium on the death penalty since 2015 but this is obviously written in 2010

0:11:25 Lydia: Okay all right there you go you know fact checking they're getting it right so far

0:11:26 Thomas: Well, there you go. They check. No, no, it doesn't change until 2015. So we're good.

0:11:33 Matt: So we got five

0:11:36 Lydia: We meet an inmate who's having a conversation with his girlfriend through the glass and things are not looking good his lawyer walks in to say

0:11:41 Thomas: Man I I think I let's just play like the first 45 minutes of the show

0:11:47 Lydia: Sure and and by the way by the way before you press play so listeners know this is RZA who's a rapper one of the original members of Wu-Tang Clan so yeah

0:11:47 Matt: Years yes he's he's been in some good stuff but not this

0:11:59 Thomas: Yeah he's fine he's still not great but it's yeah but I just I think playing the first scene just to get let's lock everyone into the tone of the Show so you can then everything else we say hopefully you know maybe you'll be able to imagine it

0:12:01 Lydia: He's fine yeah mm

0:12:02 Matt: He's barely in

0:12:14 Clip: Rick, Jewel, listen, this isn't over. There's nothing remotely all right about this. So what are we going to do now besides pray for a miracle? I just filed a request with the Supreme Court to stay the execution jewel listen I know that's a Hail Mary the Greg we have the truth on our side, and I swear to you Bless me father for I need a for

0:12:27 Lydia: -hmm all right god so ridiculous oh Oh, my God.

0:12:43 Matt: It so many

0:12:46 Thomas: Better it's already so good it's already so get almost that that transition is so perfect some idiot this idiot writer was like this is gold it's gold Jerry

0:12:55 Matt: Things I want to point out that the attorney here the attorney that we're seeing on in this opening scene is supposed to be one of the best friends of our main guy, Cyrus Garza, Mr. Smits.

0:13:04 Thomas: When does it tell us that besides he just shows up at his

0:13:07 Lydia: They all of a sudden have a relationship. Yeah?

0:13:08 Thomas: House later yeah

0:13:09 Matt: I had to watch a couple of times to try to figure this out. And so you'd think you might mention, like, I'm sending this to Supreme Court. And by the way, it's one of my best friends on the Supreme Court, I'll give him a word.

0:13:16 Thomas: My best friend yeah I mean that shouldn't really affect it but would he have to recuse I guess not because I mean they have a lot of relationships with lawyers was coming up through that it would be weird if you had to recuse just because you knew the lawyer

0:13:21 Matt: No, but it seems like you'd mention I know the guy. Yeah, I mean, it really depends on how much it might.

0:13:31 Matt: I question how good of friends they really are as we go on here, but we'll see.

0:13:33 Thomas: Yeah so uh he sent a request which sounded interesting like a like a yeah hey dear to him it may concern

0:13:38 Matt: Just if you don't mind yeah rspp that's

0:13:43 Thomas: Isn't there a name for whatever that would be what would he have done

0:13:46 Matt: A great question the show doesn't seem to know because we find out in the next scene it's a habeas that the word stay is used eventually which is what this would be I will get into it when we when this comes up about what I think is going on procedurally and I have thought about this so much more than anybody involved in the show I've been obsessing about

0:14:00 Thomas: Yeah god it's so

0:14:00 Lydia: But then we transition over to a casino, and we meet Jimmy Smits, Cyrus Garza, who he's, yeah, he's at a table. What is he playing?

0:14:03 Matt: It

0:14:06 Thomas: Good supreme court justice he's playing blackjack and it's So good. Supreme Court Justice Jimmy Smits is playing. He's doing a James Bond where he's at the table and, you know, and he's betting and he is whatever, just as a Supreme Court justice with like a crowd of people around him.

0:14:13 Lydia: Blackjack. Okay. Okay. Yep.

0:14:31 Thomas: Like, look, I know they can get away with anything now, but like that just wouldn't happen. Right. You can't have a Supreme court justice gambling, like incurring debts and doing all this stuff. I mean, that would, it's ridiculous. Like it's absolutely ridiculous yeah he's got a crowd of people you can just tell it's not a casino like it's like in someone's house or something I don't know what the hell this is but then he gets shown the door so he's playing the guy winks at him

0:14:31 Lydia: That's normal.

0:14:43 Matt: He never has a single bodyguard ever in this whole show

0:14:58 Clip: See that gentleman over there People say there's no justice excuse me Counting cards is legal. In Houston v. Resorts International, the Jersey Supreme Court affirmed 5-4. Yeah, well, the Jersey Bouncers just defirmed 2-zip.

0:15:00 Thomas: The dealer winked at

0:15:21 Matt: He's very proud of that

0:15:23 Clip: No wonder the country's going down a crapper.

0:15:27 Matt: Line we've got one of the detectives from the wire kicking him out as a bouncer and this is true I I looked it up because I had to look it up when he said Houston versus whatever. I pulled up the case. It does exist. It does say the counting cards in New Jersey is legal. He's clearly in Atlantic City or supposed to be. But I'm sure they love it when you cite the president as they're dragging you out.

0:15:43 Lydia: He's getting around a lot in this episode. Like, I mean, I know that like the States are closer together on the East coast, but man.

0:15:50 Matt: But no, it's a real problem. I don't even know where he is shot to shot, like which state he's in. And this continues for the whole show, by the way, because the premise is he's going to drop in all over the

0:15:56 Thomas: Yeah oh god yeah we'll get to that so he is being shown

0:15:58 Matt: Country because he's a lawyer everywhere, apparently. He's just welcome everywhere.

0:16:01 Thomas: So the supreme court justice is being shown out by the bouncers of this shitty casino for counting cards. Sure.

0:16:07 Matt: Did you see the sign they're panning over? There's some kind of weird inside joke or something.

0:16:11 Lydia: No, I didn't see it.

0:16:12 Matt: This is never referenced. I don't have any idea what the context is, but there's a picture of his face on this sign, and it says he's being featured as some kind of sports shooting honoree or something. It says sports shooting on it.

0:16:15 Thomas: What?

0:16:19 Lydia: Huh. Interesting. That is very bizarre.

0:16:22 Matt: It's really weird. There's a sign as he's establishing what

0:16:23 Thomas: Where is that? Hold on a sec. Oh, congratulations, Justice Cyrus Garza, the 2010 Sports Shooting Ambassador of the Year?

0:16:33 Matt: Is going on.

0:16:34 Thomas: What? Sports shooting.

0:16:35 Matt: We never see him shooting or doing anything with sports shooting ever again.

0:16:39 Lydia: Ever. Yeah yeah. Huh?

0:16:40 Matt: They made the sign. They went to the trouble of making the sign, why? This was not in the script, yeah. No, the scene is in the manuscript, but the sign isn't. It's just that but they props people decided to make that sign and we will never know why but

0:16:38 Thomas: Sports shooting, yeah. Did they change this? Oh, you have the script. Was this something else? Oh, none of that. Wait, wait. Okay.

0:16:49 Lydia: Oh, yeah. Yeah that was a just a set design decision. Uh -huh. Bizarre.

0:16:59 Thomas: I guess it would be that that's why he was there. They were holding it at a casino and then he's just off gambling or something.

0:17:05 Matt: Shouldn't it be like he's speaking or he's reading a book or something like what is a sports shooting right

0:17:08 Thomas: Yeah, or something, who knows? Well, we'll assume this is after the event, Matt.

0:17:10 Lydia: I don't know.

0:17:13 Thomas: That already happened and he stayed too late. But then, yeah, let's listen to this.

0:17:14 Lydia: So the reason why she pulled him out of the casino was because she said, what?

0:17:15 Matt: Now he's kicked

0:17:21 Clip: Last I checked, Moreta, you were a law clerk, not a nursemaid. Fabious petition from SCI Green.

0:17:29 Matt: Out

0:17:29 Thomas: She hands it to him.

0:17:29 Clip: Execution scheduled in two days, and the justices who weren't doubling down just gave their opinion it's 4-4 Gregory Beals life is in your hands you're gonna let Beals die

0:17:35 Lydia: Sorry. What? How do we already know?

0:17:37 Thomas: Hey matt that's how it works right

0:17:42 Matt: Well okay to be fair they do this all the time where they like interrupt their lives to give them state petitions they have to look at like that does happen luck works we'll have to hand it to you wherever you are there's a famous story we already talked about on the show but about william douglas like they'd go find him in the woods because there's a state petition pending. They'd track him down on the trail.

0:17:58 Matt: That part isn't unusual. But the fact that she's saying it's a habeas petition, not a state partition, this made me a little crazy because I take things so literally sometimes. I'm like, there's an original habeas partition, because that does exist. There is such a thing, just a quick diversion. There's such a question as, I don't know, I'm not sure if it's true, there is such thing as an original habius petition you can file in the Supreme Court, but it hasn't been done in 101 years. And I don' think they're doing it in this case, until the habeas.

0:18:15 Thomas: Wow no they're not because later we hear that the black lawyer that's his friend wasn't on the case while the habeas no uh when the habea's happened I think yeah and so this isn't the hate that I don't know what why this line would be

0:18:24 Matt: Until after, rather. Yes, yes, right. Yep. So, well, right, yeah, no, know it's I think what she means is it's a stay coming from a habeas so that's what they're trying to say obviously but you know I'm here to try to interpret the best I can

0:18:35 Thomas: That right right but do they come and they're like hey here's the here's this score you're you're gotta get back to the game it's four to four man we need you we need you in

0:18:42 Lydia: Yeah, the current standings. You're the deciding vote because everyone else has put in their vote.

0:18:45 Thomas: There is that how it works like the clerk would already know that or well

0:18:49 Matt: Yeah but yeah the quirks would have some idea they talk like they'd have some idea of where it was heading and you got to have five obviously to stop the stay to do the stay but there's also a tremendous amount of doubt about what is going on here at least for me who knows the law and how things work because this is a stay but we'll get to what it actually is and then where this goes and I just want to set this up right now because I'm I'm going to complain about it so much during this episode. There is no coherent legal narrative in this story. I don't mean that it's kind of like it wouldn't happen. I mean, like it completely contradicts itself from scene to scene about where we are, what we are doing, what the purpose of these proceedings are and which court we're in as it goes forward.

0:19:25 Thomas: I think you're giving it way too much credit I think the show thinks the other judges have already ruled

0:19:30 Lydia: That's honestly what it felt like to me, too.

0:19:31 Thomas: That's what the show thinks because he comes in there well we should see when he issues the ruling of the is he the chief justice do you think

0:19:40 Matt: I don' t know. I don''t think that part is, I guess I don'T really see the problem with this part.

0:19:43 Thomas: Is he do you Think he's in charge of this circuit or whatever where he gets to do the appeal and then

0:19:48 Matt: I think it's already been, it's уже passed that point. And I think that they are actually like looking for a vote number on whether the stay goes forward or not. I think thats how that works. Once the emergency application is passed. Asked.

0:19:56 Thomas: What once it's passed asked wait what do you mean

0:20:00 Matt: For the stay, you still have to get five votes to take the stay.

0:20:04 Thomas: Maybe I'm not even understanding what you're saying the governor just said no go on the clemency or whatever the hell and he's like I just sent a thing to the supreme court so that just happened

0:20:09 Matt: Yeah. So the reason you would usually do this, just to make sure we understand what the law usually is, they mention a habeas several times, right? And so you'd start with the state habeas, and the governor is denied clemency on, or is denied a state of execution on the state level. You can have a state habea, and if that's denied, you go to a federal habeas. I have no idea. I think we're supposed to be according to the script later in federal district court, but the stay would be so that you have the opportunity to file another habeas or to continue on your appeals on the habeas that was denied. Denied. And so that is what he should be reviewing. I don't really have a problem with the fact that they would know how the other justices are voting and that he's the last one to vote on it. Like that could happen in this situation. And there is a thing called a courtesy fifth. This does happen. I've heard of this before. I know Roberts has done it more than once, where if four justices want to review the case, the fifth justice, even though they don't totally agree, like Roberts has done this, we'll just like, okay, fine. We'll stay it for now since you guys want to hear it. We will let this guy not die.

0:20:57 Thomas: Is this not the thing where the one person's like in charge of the whatever the circuit and then if the other justices disagree they can like

0:21:05 Matt: That's the first step for this. But then they actually have to vote on whether there's going to be a stay or not once it is reviewed and sent to them.

0:21:11 Thomas: Yeah so we're in that I guess that's why I'm confused is like where how would we already be to that where are we in this process

0:21:17 Matt: Well, well, we're nowhere because it's a habeas apparently. But again, just assuming this is actually what they're portraying, what they'RE trying to portray. And we'll get to the scene where we actually see him reading an opinion, which doesn't make any sense, but it doesn't matter. Let's pretend it makes sense. But this is a stay of execution. That is what theyRE trying to imply. It has all of the trappings of a stay -of -execution.

0:21:34 Thomas: So let's say it's a state of execution how does that work normally

0:21:38 Matt: Like you said, you start with referring to the justice that runs that circuit, and then they refer it to the rest of the court. And this goes very quickly. It can be that night because you're often seeking last last -minute stays, right?

0:21:42 Thomas: Yep yep Gotcha. When they're doing that, what are they doing that based on? What kinds of things can be reasons for that? Because when you issue the state, what is the reasoning? I don't even know what the reasoning is that they use in this show, why he does it.

0:22:03 Matt: We don't know what the original habeas is based on. We have no idea what's going on. You do have to show that there is irreparable harm. Obviously, there's going to be somebody dead if you don't do this. There has to be some merit to the idea that maybe they should have... And the Supreme Court hasn't done this for a couple of years, at least. They haven't actually stopped one.

0:22:16 Lydia: That's depressing.

0:22:17 Thomas: I mean, there have been the ones that's because the method of execution is bad or whatever. Is that the kind of thing we're talking about? No. Different. Okay.

0:22:23 Matt: Right. So that's different. That's different, and we would know, well, again, from the rest of the episode, but that could be the basis for a habeas petition, though, is that you're going tobe executing with nitrogen or whatever. That has definitely happened, but in terms of this last - minute stay, that's usually because there's going to be some kind of evidence. There's goingto be something that you are still going to bring out. And often it's a last ditch, you know, second or third. And actually there was a case that we talked about briefly on OA, USV Boe, in which they're now accepting multiple post -conviction 2241 motions, which are a whole other thing, but they're related to habeas. And this is beyond appeals too. This is not just appeals. These are, habeas petitions are to review problems that might've been at the state level in your case, like real fundamental errors that you want to be brought in because you've already exhausted your appeals.

0:22:58 Thomas: So when he's ruling on this, isn't that some part of the thing wouldn't it be like oh they've made a great point that there might be this whatever evidence missed new evidence or somebody did something wrong or something would that be part of it okay

0:23:12 Matt: So no, this is a shadow docket decision. So this is really going to be a line in a docket. Sometimes you'll get a dissent. I'm looking at Ren right now from 2020.

0:23:19 Thomas: Well no you're saying no but I'm saying like that would be like what are they what information are they deciding on like well I don't even understand you know like even if it's shadow docket they're still using something to make their decision right

0:23:31 Lydia: Not just like a name and where they're

0:23:32 Thomas: They don't flip a a coin or just say yes or no like there's something

0:23:35 Matt: There's an application. Yeah, there's a full briefing, right?

0:23:36 Thomas: Yeah so there's got to be a reason you would vote yes orno on this right okay so what is that in this show that's what I'm trying to get at like what what the fuck is it that they're doing what is he like the basis of

0:23:45 Matt: Maybe we should talk about when we get to the merits as such as they are of the case. Because they do, it's so confusing. Like they basically, what they're going to end up doing is reinvestigating the entire murder case. But none of this was in the habeas apparently. So I don't really know.

0:24:03 Matt: I have no idea what the stay is based on. We are not told.

0:24:03 Thomas: It yeah that's

0:24:02 Lydia: At well and that wouldn't be part and that

0:24:05 Thomas: Just why I'm saying you're giving it too much credit I think they're accidentally getting some stuff that might work right but I don't want them to get it's very important to me that they should not get credit for that if they actually are by luck doing something because it's so this is so weird. Yeah.

0:24:18 Matt: I just want it to make sense. I'm trying to make it make sense, yes.

0:24:20 Thomas: I appreciate that. I'm also trying to understand how it can make sense. Okay. So what happens after this? He goes and there's like protests.

0:24:26 Lydia: Wouldn't there's a protest simultaneously like all of a sudden there's also a protest about greg beals outside the casino about greg Beals

0:24:31 Thomas: It's outside the casino, right? Because they're like, hey, he's always gambling here.

0:24:36 Lydia: I guess I don't know in a different state than where greg meals is supposed to be

0:24:40 Matt: Well, he was a scheduled appearance for his sport shooting, right? Everybody knew it was, you know, everybody's following it.

0:24:43 Thomas: Maybe that's why they put that sign in. It was like, how are people going to know?

0:24:46 Matt: Oh, yeah, right, where he is. So I was wishing that this is reality, that people actually would show up to protest a Supreme Court justice when he's out to dinner or whatever, because there's a state that's pending. That's really how it should work. Now, you could see in maybe like a really big celebrity case, if it got a lot of attention, and there was a podcast episode or something about it, you know that people might organize and get together and protest.

0:24:54 Thomas: Yeah, they should. How would they have done it this fast? Or are we to assume that time has passed between the first two scenes?

0:25:06 Lydia: Yeah

0:25:09 Matt: Well you'd have a couple of days, like you'd know it was coming. People who, like us, who watch the court could be like, well, it looks like this is going to be coming down to Garza, because we can guess how other people, the rest of the court votes on Brown death penalty, right?

0:25:19 Thomas: Even though it just happened two seconds ago, they're, they'RE like, okay, this is how it's going. I I guess right when you're saying right when they get the news that the governor says no, you're just naturally like, well, the next step is going to be Supreme Court.

0:25:28 Matt: So yeah, that's very quick.

0:25:28 Thomas: And naturally, it's going tobe this one guy.

0:25:30 Lydia: Well and it could be also like because part of this scene is he gets confronted he gets converted by a quote card -carrying member of the ACLU that's how she describes herself

0:25:35 Thomas: Oh, this is the worst.

0:25:40 Matt: I hated it so much.

0:25:41 Thomas: This is quietly the worst part of the show. Like, it just under the radar, worst partof the show, if you have any cringe to cringe, prepare it now. Because what happens is this beautiful liberal woman who's like, how can you be such an This person's like Scalia. We're to believe this is like Scalia, right? Right? Like this is like the rightest of right wing court justices, super far right. And she's like, how can you do this? What, you know, you asshole, this is horrible. You're horrible. She's like, How do you sleep at night? And he's like I sleep like a baby.

0:25:45 Matt: Hard to pick, but great.

0:26:12 Thomas: But for you, I'd make an exception. And then we cut to they slept together.

0:26:12 Lydia: God it's so gross so gross

0:26:17 Matt: She's in his bed. It worked.

0:26:19 Thomas: What? That's the most insane thing I've ever seen in my Supreme Court justice. Just like I get that we're in an alternate reality where it's like jimmy smith who I you know is 10 000 times more attractive than any supreme court justice has ever been which isn't saying much but like are you serious like we we really think that and it's also like so fucking sexist this woman who cares enough about this issue to have found where he's doing his shooting including ambassadorship and also gambling is part of this protest but the minute he's like oh shitty pickup line she's like well naturally I'm gonna sleep with you like that's just obviously and that's not a

0:26:57 Matt: I really would like to see the next thing that happened after he said that. We get from A to B there.

0:27:02 Thomas: Yeah because it would be slap or it wouldbe like oh wow this fucking pig is exactly who I thought he was what did you hear that the asshole who's gonna kill the guy we're are all here because we care about just sexually harassed me.

0:27:04 Lydia: It's crazy just sexually harass me yeah

0:27:16 Matt: Yeah and somebody would have have a video of that and it would go immediately on twitter and even in 2010 yep that was twitter like maybe getting something facebook I don't know

0:27:20 Thomas: I mean, 2010, I guess it wouldn't quite. No, I don't. Not as prevalent. It was possible, but not as prevalent, yeah. Somebody probably would have, yeah, like talked about it, but that shows an insane level of sexism and not knowing how anything works, like combined. That's crazy. Absolutely crazy.

0:27:26 Matt: That's true that's truth it would still be news that this guy said this to a woman in public

0:27:26 Lydia: Youtube vine it's

0:27:38 Matt: Right yeah yeah

0:27:42 Lydia: Also following them debating the case like on a public street just like getting into it

0:27:46 Thomas: Yeah. Just a pending case, case, Matt, the Supreme Court justice, is he going to just get into a street debate about the literal pending thing that he's about to do immediately?

0:27:57 Lydia: The deciding vote Oh

0:27:58 Matt: Is this what women on dating profiles mean when they say they want banter is this banter ist that what's going on here is this human banter you know

0:28:02 Thomas: Can you answer the question just for all of us who want to be sane here? That's insane, right?

0:28:08 Matt: Okay just checking everything about this is insane this whole scene And the fact that I just want to point out too, because you're not going to be able to play this and people won't understand it if they don't see it. He's walking with his law clerk who we find out later he hired because she's attractive and she's next to him and he's not looking behind him. He's just hearing a woman talking and he just turns to her and says, cute, like asking if the woman who's yelling at him is attractive so that she can, yes. I watched this several times because I could not believe the scene either. And then she says something about how she has whiskers and cankles.

0:28:28 Thomas: Oh, wow. I even missed that. Oh my God.

0:28:36 Matt: And I'm like, are you even looking at this woman? She's very attractive. Yes. What What is going on?

0:28:36 Thomas: What?

0:28:41 Clip: Aren't you cute if you're into cankles and whiskers let me guess ACLU yeah car carrying

0:28:44 Matt: Hear that? Yeah.

0:28:44 Thomas: If you're into cankles and whiskers? Wow. Yeah.

0:28:50 Matt: There's another woman who's validating his sexism and helping him, I guess, pick up women.

0:28:55 Thomas: No, she has a crush on him obviously and that's why she's giving him false information

0:29:00 Matt: But she's complicit. Yeah, that's true. That's true, you're right. That makes sense. Right. Right, right. But he's still asking this woman,

0:29:02 Thomas: No she's trying to she's she's trying to not have him be into her yeah yeah

0:29:08 Matt: The relationship they have is like, is this woman behind me cute? Should I deal with her?

0:29:12 Thomas: The amount of me too that this is is can't

0:29:14 Matt: Yes. Quite a lot of me too.

0:29:14 Thomas: Even be you'd need 700 ronin pharaohs you would need an army of ronan

0:29:18 Lydia: So bad. Right.

0:29:19 Matt: Yeah. Even somebody this conservative would not have made it to the Supreme Court with this kind of record.

0:29:22 Thomas: Pharaoh's no absolutely not especially this openly like honestly maybe behind closed doors like obviously who knows but like Like, this openly, at the protest of the people who care. It's not just, like, casual people. These are people who cares so much. They are organizing and at a protest at a random -ass place at night, in the middle of the night. Like, the enemy, the people Who would need to take you down, want to take You down, and You're just actively sexually harassing one of them. Like, oh, my God. So bad. All right. So.

0:29:48 Matt: Who hate you. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

0:29:56 Lydia: Then what we get is after coitus, I guess he likes to watch old, the old Dateline episode,

0:29:59 Thomas: Yeah. Well, she said Your dad would be so disappointed. And so he's going down the memory lane of like, wow, my dad, who apparently was what, an activist? Yeah, or something. And so it turns out his dad, and he obviously disagreed because his dad was a civil rights icon.

0:30:11 Matt: A lefty civil rights lawyer. Yep, yep, yep.

0:30:20 Lydia: And the way that Dateline presents this is because his dad died in an act and a car accident that he was in. We find out. It says, quote, the sole survivor of the accident and arguably the most conservative justice on the Supreme Court. Like, what a weird couple of things to put into one sentence.

0:30:35 Matt: Yeah, combo. Yeah.

0:30:36 Thomas: It's also weird to say sole survivor when it was just he and his dad in a car. That makes it sound like it's a plane crash and an unbreakable scenario. It was just like, well, they got in a Car accident and he survived. And the dad didn't

0:30:48 Matt: Right. And Dad was driving. This is supposed to have something to do with his change of heart, except this is so poorly written and this character is so badly developed that I have no idea why he changes his heart. I don't think he's changed his heart at all. I think he is just an opportunist.

0:31:01 Matt: He also, I should point out, he does have a serious gambling problem at at this point too. That's an important plot point. And that another reason he wouldn't be on the Supreme court.

0:31:01 Thomas: Well yeah yeah well I feel like we're supposed to believe he has had a change of heart because it actually well in seen in a bit we'll get more about I guess I'll pause because then we go we've got to after the quick title sequence that's nothing it's like they didn't even invest in doing one because they're like this is not worth it yeah that's

0:31:26 Lydia: Yeah, the word cloud.

0:31:24 Matt: Still better than rainmakers. At least there's some legal documents in it.

0:31:28 Thomas: True god that was so bad yeah this is like close but not let's see is there even

0:31:28 Lydia: So bad. Yeah.

0:31:31 Clip: Member justice we really sorry what you I'm gonna help you

0:31:34 Thomas: Any that's it's pretty similar to be honest with you but instead of word cloud they just decided to show documents so it's like looks a little bit better then

0:31:34 Matt: There's like, yeah. Yeah,

0:31:41 Lydia: And we meet the team. We meet the The team. Yeah.

0:31:44 Thomas: We meet like the dear god we need to get a woman sexually harassing people so that this isn't so bad

0:31:50 Lydia: So this is a P .I. that he's brought on to the team.

0:31:54 Thomas: Yeah you know supreme court justice pi yeah they all have their PIs right

0:31:56 Matt: The PI. Yeah her introduction is I don't want to be your lover to the Harvard educated, uh, top

0:32:03 Thomas: Man yeah there's like the republican -y guy

0:32:03 Lydia: Yeah, law clerk.

0:32:03 Matt: Of his class, Eddie Franks. Um, right.

0:32:07 Lydia: Played by Jesse Bradford, for anyone who is interested in actors. I don't know.

0:32:11 Matt: He doesn't get much to do, but the entire dynamic between the two of them is just her over and over and over again saying, I'm not going to sleep with you.

0:32:17 Thomas: Yeah it's so fun like literally Literally, that's the first line. OK, so he walks in. Can I help you? She's blowing bubbles. What?

0:32:26 Clip: Uh, I'm Eddie Franks. I clerk for Justice Garza.

0:32:36 Clip: Because I don't sleep with the people I work with.

0:32:40 Lydia: Yeah. Weird.

0:32:42 Matt: And I will tell you, this continues on throughout the preceding episode. She continues to sexually harass him through the episodes, through the entire series that I've watched so far. That's her job is just to continue to sexually harass him and say, I am not going sleep with him.

0:32:53 Thomas: So you're saying they try to continue that for more than one episode.

0:32:55 Matt: It carries on so bad.

0:32:57 Thomas: Wow. That's really bad. OK.

0:32:57 Matt: That is her character. That is what she does. Yeah. Yep.

0:33:01 Lydia: So we get some information from her P .A. work where we learn that Greg Beals is the person on death row who is going to be killed unless they stay the execution.

0:33:09 Thomas: Did you get that, everybody? The Supreme Court justice hired a P .I. to research the

0:33:14 Matt: I will stay.

0:33:13 Lydia: Execution yeah and why his demeanor seemed off you know during the court case turns out he was being pumped full of halidol apparently and

0:33:16 Thomas: What? What? What was this?

0:33:20 Matt: Yeah, yeah. I know. Okay.

0:33:25 Lydia: I will say Eddie Franks' Jesse Bradford character at least is like the case has been briefed we're not allowed to look for tidbits and I was like oh god thank you the show's jumped the shark

0:33:32 Thomas: They give him the task of being like what this doesn't make sense but it's like it's yeah it's not enough like it still is not the reaction would be again correct me if I'm wrong as always matt but this is just not in the realm of things they'd just be like no none of this is anything like it you can't even say like how would someone react because it's not a possible thing that would happen at

0:33:50 Matt: No. Also, okay. Okay. So with the habeas petition, you have a certain amount of time to bring this stuff after you become aware of it. And how would the client, how would the defendant not know that he was already pumped full of polidol? He was like, clearly, it's a very powerful anti -schizophrenic medication. And yes, that would be very bad if they'd purposely drugged him at trial. And then, and that they mentioned the prosecutor referred to as insensitive remorseless face, right?

0:34:03 Thomas: All that's

0:34:15 Matt: And that would terrible, right, if you drugged him and then you talk about what a zombie he looks like or whatever. But again, they've established this case has been on appeal or going through various appeals for 10 or 11 years. He's been on death row and this has not come up at at all. And she had to hack the county jail allegedly to find this information.

0:34:10 Thomas: A that's great point

0:34:15 Lydia: Yeah

0:34:27 Thomas: Wow yeah I didn't I didn' pick up on that that that's That's the subtle racism of like, well, the black defendant couldn't have known that he was drugged. Wow.

0:34:33 Matt: Yeah, he'd never know. Right. We have to find out through hacking the system. They kind of write off the idea. I just want to point this out for the habeas, the way this procedural has worked out. There's a passing mention of the fact that his lawyer didn't file a brief on time. And that's why the habea did not bring up some of these issues. And effective assistance would be a great reason for a stay. They just mentioned in passing. And also, a brief isn't really how it works with habeas. In your habeas in your petition, you're going to outline all the things that you're going to argue for the haveas. You put it all up front. So it's not really about maybe there there was some kind of secondary briefing order or whatever. But if he was coming forward with credible evidence that he'd been drugged, which is what he should have done, or any of the other issues that are going to be raised in the course of this investigation the Supreme Court justice is doing, that would have been raised. And let alone the fact that even the fact that the prosecutor referred to his remorseless face during trial, even if he hadn't been drugged, isn't great. That could have been an appellate issue. I don't know. But we don't know that much about the legal case because they don't give a shit about the legal case or the law. No.

0:35:11 Lydia: So how

0:35:27 Thomas: Yeah. They don't even do it.

0:35:29 Lydia: The scene ends is jimmy smith's just basically saying, you know, that following the rules doesn't always lead to justice. And that's their explanation for why he's doing this. And that Beals deserves another trial is the decision that he is landing on.

0:35:34 Thomas: So dumb. Yeah. But why? Okay.

0:35:42 Matt: Yeah. We don't know why. Because of the thing that she found out about the drugs.

0:35:45 Thomas: So that's why I'm saying, I think the show thinks that it's just like you ask the court like, hey, redo or something with no details. And then they get to be like, yes or no. Yeah.

0:35:54 Matt: Yeah, it's also extra funny because allegedly one of his best friends in the world is representing this guy. So like, you could just call him up and be like, I've been reading through this case. What else should I know? I mean, I don't have that's appropriate. But I'm just saying like, he should maybe it would have come up. Yeah? Right. Exactly.

0:36:06 Thomas: Yeah, probably not, but more appropriate than I've hired a PI to investigate, to hack into stuff. Oh, man.

0:36:13 Lydia: Medical records from the prison. Yeah.

0:36:15 Matt: We also learned that Al, his lawyer doesn't really know that much about the case at all, which is kind of weird.

0:36:19 Thomas: And you know, it's funny, throwback to OA with Jenessa, because she hacks something and then she's like, relax. It's just government records that you're entitled to anyway. And no, actually, that's I don't forget when that law was passed, but I'm pretty sure I think it predated 2010. 2010? Yeah. So you can, it's even hacking if you hack into something that you could technically get by other means.

0:36:30 Matt: That's not how it works. Yeah. You don't just get to take them.

0:36:42 Thomas: Because that was an important part of like, whether you're authorized or not, you know, is you can't argue like, well, I'm authorized because anyone could FOIA, but that's not a justification for like, you have access to it. You're not authorized to access it. It's kind of funny.

0:36:54 Matt: That is right.

0:36:59 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:36:59 Matt: So, the next scene we have to talk about because...

0:37:00 Lydia: We have to have a little bit of conflict, right? Like he can't just go into the Supreme Court now and say, this is my decision, we need to set up that this is going going to be something he has to wrestle with a little bit and the way that we do that is we introduce this a senator that pulls up in his car outside this courthouse and and and says get in

0:37:09 Thomas: Oh my God. Oh, my God, here we go. It says get in.

0:37:18 Matt: Oh, also, they are hanging on to the front steps of the Supreme Court. I just have to point that out. That isn't something... They don't go out of the front door of the Supreme Court, that is not how works.

0:37:23 Lydia: Yeah uh and he gets in the

0:37:26 Thomas: Oh yeah it's like clocking out all right see you everybody bye oh my god oh come on here we go we gotta play this I'm sorry we gotta play this he's like get in and I was like who's this I thought this was gonna be the guy that he owes money to that's what it seems

0:37:31 Matt: Yes, it is chilling. Yes.

0:37:32 Lydia: Car with his lunchbox uh so he gets into the car and then the senator proceeds to explain to him the

0:37:42 Matt: This speech... Yeah. Right.

0:37:49 Clip: If I knew you were taking me to the prom, Do I look like I'm in the mood for your moronic jokes? No, in fact, I think there's actual steam coming out of your ears.

0:38:05 Clip: All 5-4 decisions. These are precedent-setting cases, and they all went south because of you.

0:38:13 Matt: I'm sorry. I mean, precedent setting cases at the Supreme Court. Casey laughed out loud as soon as she heard that phrase as she was walking by. It's so funny.

0:38:14 Lydia: Constitution yeah yeah

0:38:15 Thomas: Like yeah I said that to lydia I was was like that's all of them yeah it's so good but also that shows us that he's actually been ruling the other way on stuff so like it's not so they're doing this thing where it's like they all hate him for being right wing but he's Actually been ruling the Other Way for some period of time which yeah oh my god well well hold on let's keep going they don't know yet

0:38:24 Matt: They're all precedents. Right? Yeah. He's getting moderate somehow. But now the logic of this, I'm sure you already teased this out, but this is the single stupidest thing, the stupidest thing in this.

0:38:46 Clip: I hear you're thinking of reversing Beals. Who the hell do you think you are going soft on the death penalty?

0:38:49 Thomas: I hear you're thinking yes

0:38:55 Matt: Big death penalty.

0:38:56 Thomas: Like it's so funny so this we're to believe that a senator pulls up in a car and cares so much about one uh habeas of

0:38:58 Clip: If this new direction of yours is because of your dad's death,

0:39:06 Matt: Yeah. Execution.

0:39:12 Thomas: Somebody because like if you vote the wrong way then you're somehow like changing the death penalty that's not even what that means really like it'S not because that's why once again that's Why you can't give the show credit Matt because now the the show thinks that he's changing the death penalty or like or like doing this because the death penalty is not okay right I mean

0:39:30 Matt: So we learned in a subsequent episode this is the senator who is responsible for getting him through to his nomination to getting him on which makes

0:39:35 Thomas: Sure I mean we'll kind of learn that

0:39:37 Clip: If it's a midlife crisis, career secretary. But do not shift the balance of the Supreme Court. You make it sound like you're gonna hire a hitman. And don't think we can't do it. Section 1, Article 3.

0:39:45 Thomas: Here

0:39:56 Clip: Justices shall hold their offices during good behavior who are we kidding that rules you out

0:39:55 Thomas: Sure yeah man I'm a supreme court justice

0:39:59 Lydia: Why why would you nonsense

0:40:02 Matt: Sense okay all right I know you caught this already but we already know that there is a democratic president they're gonna so the guy who got him through the nomination is threatening to impeach him even assuming you can do that even assuming that works you still have a democratic president is going to replace you with a non -conservative justice. So why would you do suicide? And then at the same time, they get mad at him when he quits because now he's going to be replaced by a Democratic president.

0:40:04 Thomas: It's so good yeah yeah

0:40:26 Matt: So they were going to impeach him. That makes no sense.

0:40:26 Thomas: Yeah it's it's so stupid

0:40:29 Matt: It's such a toothless threat. It is nonsense. It s like they forgot that they wrote that scene several scenes later.

0:40:33 Thomas: Also telling the just supreme court justice that oh you might have forgotten that we're going to beat you is the funniest thing in the world because clearly someone's like wait do people know the audience that were they going to be like wait impeachment that's a president thing so you're gonna have to put a line put that anywhere else put that fucking line in anyone else's mouth ever rather

0:40:57 Lydia: And not add a supreme court

0:40:57 Thomas: Than the senator telling the supreme court justice oh man god it's so good Yeah.

0:41:02 Matt: No, but the law stuff, I can deal with the bad law stuff. But Like, this is just bad narrative. The fact that you've got a guy, like 10 minutes later, they're going to get mad because he quits the Supreme Court because he's going to be replaced. But just now he's threatening to, I just,

0:41:17 Lydia: Justice but but and I I do think the other piece of it too though is like if you think you have the votes to impeach then I would assume you also have the vote not to get the democratic nominee through too

0:41:19 Thomas: And they don't acknowledge it. Yeah. Well, this predates any thinking of that, really. Yeah, I mean, you might you might reject a nominee, but not not with the logic of like we're stopping all nominees.

0:41:36 Matt: Different times.

0:41:41 Thomas: That wouldn't be invented until four years later. Yeah but this is this is incredible. So this this one senator is like, by the way, heard you were going soft. How? How did how did what how did you hear that he was going soft?

0:41:41 Lydia: Gotcha yeah yeah

0:41:53 Matt: That was quick.

0:41:56 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, it's so dumb.

0:41:58 Matt: Just had this meeting in your office

0:41:59 Thomas: We've gotten through eight minutes of this show, and it's already a lifetime's worth of bad, stupid law stuff. Like, God, it just keeps going.

0:42:07 Matt: And it's going to get so much stupider. So much.

0:42:08 Lydia: It's yeah it is going to get so bad so uh he is he is going mull this over play some basketball while he figures out what he wants to do and we get a montage of some stuff with his dad and uh some details of the car accident so now we now we get to him delivering his opinion

0:42:19 Thomas: Now let's go to the Supreme Court. Yeah.

0:42:23 Matt: From the bench.

0:42:24 Lydia: Opinion

0:42:24 Clip: You're playing the wheels of justice there was a time where I would have said those people are

0:42:24 Thomas: Okay, he's walking in the front door again in his jeans.

0:42:30 Clip: Right but it seems to me now that a little chaos is a fair price to pay for the life of another

0:42:34 Thomas: What is this speech?

0:42:35 Matt: It's

0:42:39 Clip: Human being that is why I am staying the execution of Gregory Beals and sending the case back to a

0:42:40 Matt: Nothing. You're doing what now? Hold on.

0:42:45 Thomas: All right, Matt, go ahead.

0:42:50 Matt: Okay. Okay. First of all, we're seeing, just to set the stage here, we'RE seeing a full seating of the Supreme Court. They're all there, right? And there's an RBG. Did you see there's an RBJ next to him wearing the RBJ collar? Nice little detail, very RBJ looking, RBJ coded.

0:42:54 Thomas: Yeah. They're all there. Yep, definitely saw that.

0:42:59 Lydia: I didn't see that that's

0:43:03 Matt: First of All, this is a shadow docket decision, right. They've established this as, I mean, okay, again, they said it was a habeas, but this is clearly a stay because it's an emergency and they're doing the five, four thing. Maybe again, I hate to give the benefit of the doubt. There's all kinds of ways that potentially this might be true, but it's just not, this Is not true. This is not happening. They don't do, they don't read it from the bench. They'RE not going to read not going to happen. And he's giving this meaningless speech about how I'm going to throw a little chaos in and let this guy have his day

0:43:16 Thomas: That yep yeah no none of this is happening

0:43:24 Lydia: It's not really shadowy once you start like reading it from the bench yeah

0:43:27 Matt: During the record. No.

0:43:27 Thomas: Yeah it also doesn't make any sense on any

0:43:31 Matt: And the kicker, as I said at the end, you're both granting the stay and you're personally granting him a new trial. That is not how this works. That does not at all. Now, the show doesn't know. Somehow, the order didn't get down from this court, from the Supreme Court.

0:43:37 Thomas: Level any of this yeah yeah

0:43:45 Matt: The order did not make its way down to the actual court because it goes to the wrong court,

0:43:48 Thomas: Yep yep wait I just had a thought was there a shadow docket I thought the when we covered it the thing that invented the shadow doocket I mean I guess maybe in a different

0:43:48 Matt: As we'll establish. Yeah. Yeah. It was the, they called it the emergency document, but like the death penalties cases have always been done this way. Yeah. Right.

0:43:58 Thomas: Right they always had these ones but it was about like what they added to it but just to note they They wouldn't have had the term shadow docket back then, right? Just kind of interesting.

0:44:01 Lydia: What else got to go on it yeah

0:44:07 Matt: No, no. But they also wouldn't have read it from the bench.

0:44:10 Thomas: Yeah, of course. Yeah, no, I'm not disagreeing with that. It's just kind of an interesting thing when you think about it, like how new that is.

0:44:14 Lydia: But that's not where he leaves off with this

0:44:14 Matt: No, no there's more.

0:44:17 Thomas: Here, let's see. He's got more. The gasp in the courtroom. By the way, the family of the... Okay.

0:44:20 Clip: New trial. I love this court. Its cautious respect for precedent and neutrality has at

0:44:21 Lydia: Speech uh -huh came over from

0:44:23 Thomas: Yeah. I love this court. This is so good. This is the central dumb thing of the show.

0:44:33 Matt: That's the Supreme court. Yes. No.

0:44:33 Clip: Times saved our country. But I came here a different judge, a different man. I used to be satisfied being cautious and neutral, being Switzerland. I am not anymore. The job of a justice is to preserve the status quo, to be a referee, to settle fights. Well, I'm ready to fight them, and I can't do that here.

0:45:02 Thomas: What?

0:45:02 Clip: That is why today I am announcing my resignation from the court, because I'm

0:45:08 Lydia: Pennsylvania yeah

0:45:13 Thomas: He's ready. He's resigning from the literal most possible power a human being could ever, ever have to do anything for the Supreme Court. You're the swing justice. And he's like, I'm resigning because it's time to change it. He's resigned from the court because it'S time to CHANGE the court, guys. So he's going to resign from the one literal human who could do anything about it to become something that there's, what, thousands of at least that exist. Exist. Yeah. That don't have any ability really to change the

0:45:23 Matt: Over the law. Yeah yeah. Yeah speaking as one of them. Yeah Nope. Or anything else.

0:45:47 Thomas: Supreme court at all. So fucking funny.

0:45:50 Matt: The description that he gave of what a Supreme court justice does makes me think maybe he shouldn't have gotten through I don't think he knows what a Supreme Court justice does.

0:45:56 Thomas: Well, to be fair, he's a Republican. So I'm kind of like, yeah, it is to maintain the status quo.

0:46:00 Matt: The status quo. That's sure. They're trying to make like a West Wing, obviously, kind of thing out of this. Oh, by the way, I meant to mention this before. I've never watched the West Wing. But I realized as I remember that Jimmy Smits was in it. Jimmy Smitz now is probably the one actor I'm going to guess, one mainstream big actor to have played the head of all three branches of government.

0:46:04 Thomas: Oh, he was.

0:46:18 Matt: He has now been a Supreme court justice, a congressman and the president at different times. So there you go.

0:46:19 Thomas: Well hold on. Has he gotten house and Senate?

0:46:24 Lydia: That's

0:46:25 Matt: Oh, that's right. But at least Congress. Yeah.

0:46:28 Thomas: Interesting.

0:46:29 Matt: Yeah. That's something. Even it was this.

0:46:30 Thomas: And he also was some kind of Jedi. I want to say in those prequels. Oh, that was right. That's that's also a position of leadership.

0:46:33 Matt: He was Bill Organa. Yeah, he was Leia's father. That's true. Senator. Yeah.

0:46:39 Thomas: Wow. It's a senator. That'S right.

0:46:44 Matt: There you go. Got it covered.

0:46:44 Thomas: Oh, man. So funny.

0:46:45 Lydia: Yeah well obviously the senator is pissed speaking of senators the senator in the show is pissed and he calls him and says I suggest you get a bodyguard which is crazy

0:46:48 Thomas: God, it's so funny. Instantly, the minute this would happen, he is no longer relevant in any way. Supreme Court Justice Jimmy Smith, why would you waste time talking to him other than as a friend? Yeah, like it doesn't there's nothing, nothing to be gained anymore.

0:47:01 Lydia: Yep waste your minutes on calling interesting

0:47:08 Thomas: There's he has no power. This is the stupidest central premise of a show maybe ever. Like it's so fucking dumb. Have him do anything else. Please, please. There'S got to be other ways, right? Why did he have to be a Supreme Court justice? Because it's just so stupid.

0:47:19 Matt: They just really, they wanted to make, and actually, this is, I think I saw this somewhere in one of the promo things, they were trying to make like a West Wing about the Supreme Court and they decided to do this. I will say, I meant to mention this before, we should go back at some point. This is the third show ever made featuring featuring a character who's a Supreme Court justice. And of course he's not for the rest of the show, but still sets it up that way. There were two shows made at the same time in 2002 after the election debacle that I guess is sort of inspired by this about the Supreme Court. We have to go back and find because those have to be artifacts, like the way they were portraying the Supreme court in the 2002, I can only imagine.

0:47:30 Thomas: Stupid

0:47:52 Lydia: Interesting.

0:47:52 Matt: But yeah, there just never has been good content about a Supreme court justice.

0:47:56 Thomas: No and this is this is the dumbest I mean this is just absolutely the dumbdest thing how oh my god how could you think this is how anything works I can't even get over

0:47:59 Matt: Yeah, it's gotta be.

0:48:08 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:48:08 Thomas: It all right if you want to hear the rest of that and again that's only half done there's much more stupid to come then you know where to go patreon.com/law-pledge at that two dollar level and above for a lot of movies uh and you get the ad free you get everything you know the spiel please consider doing it do it do if you've been on the fence do it so much good stuff the book club we're really upping our game over on Patreon. So consider pledging, please. And if you can't, we totally understand. Consider sharing the show. That's the best thing you can do if you appreciate the work that we're doing here. So thanks so much again. And we'll see you on Friday for some of Blanche getting absolutely demolished by a judge. It's the Best. See you then.