Nancy Mace Thinks Anyone With a Foreign Name Is Disloyal

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:09 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Opening Arguments, the show that breaks down the law and the news. It is Vapid Response Wednesday. That's when we talk about the stuff that's a little more vapid. I'm Thomas Delver. There's real life attorney Matt Cameron. How are you doing?

0:00:22 Matt: This is a lot more vapid. We're ready to break down some of the stupidest shit you've ever read in your life, Thomas. I got some big ones.

0:00:27 Thomas: I don't know. Boy, we've

0:00:29 Matt: Even by our standards, this is something.

0:00:26 Lydia: Pretty

0:00:30 Thomas: Had a lot of of those. And of course, producer Lydia, how are you doing?

0:00:37 Lydia: Good is this our first like vapid death also like that we get to talk about I'm so excited

0:00:41 Thomas: Wow. Vapid death. It's like a metal band. VAPID death response.

0:00:46 Matt: They never leave Norway, but someday, maybe we can see them live. Yeah. No, we do have an amused douche today from the recently deceased Lindsey Graham. We need to remember him as I'm sure he'd want to be remembered, pointing his finger and yelling at people. So we'll start with that. And then we've got a piece. Now, I know we keep going back to the Federalist mind. I feel like at this point, we could just do a Wednesday show where we just read the Federalists because every time I open the Federalism, I mean, even just like today, when you open it, there's like, don't like mass deportation? Blame the Democrats. That kind of stuff.

0:01:00 Lydia: Too bad of course yeah

0:01:23 Thomas: And he said open. I thought you were like, you know, like a newspaper. Like, I've got my issue of the Federalist that I get delivered to to me.

0:01:28 Matt: Kicking up my feet and get my coffee and

0:01:30 Thomas: I get it for the puzzles.

0:01:32 Matt: Well, I read it for the articles sometimes. But and then we have a newsweek editorial we've had some fun with newsweek recently but this is a particularly vapid author this is representative nancy mace who is one of the most entertaining people in congress as I'm sure you know and then a

0:01:50 Thomas: Yeah, is she still in the house?

0:01:51 Lydia: Just for a little bit and then she's she's gonna be gone yeah

0:01:53 Matt: Little while and I knew that she was an idiot but this is really something uh these two pieces I think you're gonna have a lot of fun picking these apart these are good times uh and then just for fun just to lighten it up I've got an album review from 1969. I'm just going to throw in at the end because it's fun to go back and look at people and point and laugh at people who were wrong in 1969.

0:02:14 Thomas: It's an album review where they're like, Trump will never win the election somehow.

0:02:18 Matt: The rule of law will hold. Yes.

0:02:20 Thomas: Good times.

0:02:23 Matt: Also, I'm not sure about these Rolling Stones, but yeah, that's

0:02:21 Lydia: Trust our institutions yeah oh

0:02:26 Thomas: Well I'm excited. Yeah. The funniest line I saw on, on Lindsey Graham was somebody, apparently I'm friends, Facebook friends with who's like went viral and said, Lindsey Graham did everything that Mitch McConnell did except backwards and in high heels, which is pretty much the best possible joke you could have about him.

0:02:28 Lydia: Man

0:02:42 Matt: Pretty good.

0:02:43 Thomas: Uh, yeah, that's amazing. I, it was, it Was weird. Like I had a moment where, when, when I, you know, saw that Lindsey Graham died where I was like, Oh, like, I don't, I dunno why just because he's so closeted forever. I've always felt like Like someday he'll just like, you know, someday he will be, this is based on nothing. This is absolutely.

0:02:40 Lydia: That's good that's great good wow yeah he'll come around yeah yeah yeah

0:03:03 Thomas: And then after, you Know, being reminded of a few things he's said and done, it's like, oh yeah, well fuck that guy. But you know. He should have just not been closeted. I don't know. Just don't, just come out, out with it.

0:03:14 Matt: There are better ways he could have spent the last 10 years. I'll tell you that. Way better ways.

0:03:18 Lydia: That's for sure.

0:03:19 Thomas: Oh boy. Well, yeah, we'll get to it. I think we've got to do what we always do though, before we go to that first break, which is to thank our Hall of Famers, our all -time greats who make the show happen at patreon.com/law. These are the folks that support at that $5 level and above for at least a month. They make it happen.

0:03:38 Lydia: Creme de la creme.

0:03:39 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. They're the reason Lindsey Graham is dead. No, I don't know. I'm trying to incorporate it. Maybe.

0:03:46 Matt: Trying to get the FBI called on our patrons.

0:03:49 Lydia: Yeah, as we read patron names. Now the list.

0:03:51 Thomas: And now I'll read these names.

0:03:56 Matt: Unless he was murdered by palindromes I think we're good some of them do almost kill me every week let's see what we got close

0:04:02 Thomas: Oh, that's a, there we go. Yeah. Gosh, that's on fire today. All you to Dylan Love, Rebecca, Bewitched, Beclowned, Bewildered. Nice. My house is a mess, but I read a lot of books. Griff, The Tired 1L, Matthew Cutler, Autistic Twitch Streamer, twitch.tv/MTC_streams. Gary the Seagull. Nope, no way am I reading that, you monster.

0:04:28 Thomas: UnreMerkable. Amelia, Donna Treadaway, Mother of Harridans, Mike Lapinsky, God, A Red Nugget, A Fat Egg Under a Dog. Okay that's that's the one that got him that's the one they got Lindsey Graham he was he was reading that as he died Sionitus International Jeff I love IJ Grey Pouponderance of the Evidence Last Train to Skanksville Does Alito flip if told citizenship begins at conception okay if you told him that Apprentice of Adventure Charlie Kelly attorney at bird law and Probably a real person that's our first Thank you so much for making the show happen. We'll take a quick break and then we'll dig into all the Lindsey Graham dying that is today's show.

0:04:34 Matt: That's a real gram killer right there yeah that's right yeah

0:04:36 Lydia: A red nugget a red nugget

0:05:15 Thomas: Yeah, I could almost do this by heart. I remember I remember this whole thing but this is a this is a good one to to remember it by yeah

0:05:19 Matt: I think he was proud of this. I think that he'd be happy that we were playing his very angry monologue in the direction of the Democrats on the committee during the Kavanaugh hearings. That's what we're going to be watching a bit of. And before Trump, I didn't really have an opinion about Lindsey Graham. He was just kind of like a guy, just like a Southern South Carolina, but he really went full MAGA after a certain golf game, and it's just never looked back. So the Kavanaugh hearings, especially, he really just, this is who he was. And I had no reason not to play it.

0:05:59 Thomas: They figured out this impossible technology that is when you're wrong get mad and then then people are like oh well what did we do to make you so mad it must be our fault and then that's and

0:06:08 Matt: They both go.

0:06:08 Lydia: Especially the only side with empathy right you play into that and then yeah trick them into thinking that they messed up okay

0:06:11 Thomas: Then that's fascism yeah oh boy what

0:06:16 Clip: That at the time if you wanted an FBI investigation you could have come to us what you want to do is destroy this guy's life hold this seat open and hope you win in 2020 you've said that not me you've got nothing to apologize for when you see Sotomayor and Kagan tell them that Lindsay said hello because I voted for them I would never do to them what you've done to this guy this is the the most unethical sham since I've been in politics. And if you really wanted to know the truth, you sure as hell wouldn't have done what you've done to this guy. Are you a gang rapist? No.

0:06:38 Thomas: What did they do this what is that what

0:06:40 Matt: Is that a long pause?

0:07:03 Clip: I cannot imagine what you and your family have gone through. Boy, y 'all want power. God, I hope you never get it. I hope the American people can see through this sham, that you knew about it and you held it. You had no intention of protecting dr. Ford none she's as much of a victim as you are god I hate to say it because these have been my friends but let me tell you when it comes to this you're looking for a fair process you came to the wrong town at the wrong time my friend do

0:06:59 Thomas: I think he ran out of steam uh -huh well

0:07:38 Clip: You consider this a job interview the advice and consent role is like a job you consider that you've been been through a job interview I've been through a process of advice and consent under the constitution would you say you've been to hell I been through how and then some this is not a job interview yeah this is hell this this this is going to destroy the ability of good people to come forward because of this crap your

0:07:38 Thomas: He didn't come there yeah

0:08:01 Lydia: My god you're so dramatic it

0:08:01 Thomas: Sure oh yeah I

0:08:09 Clip: High school yearbook you have interacted with professional women all your life not one one accusation. You're supposed to be Bill Cosby when you're a junior and senior in high school and all of a sudden you got over it. It's been my understanding that if you drug women and rape them for two years in high school, you probably don't stop.

0:08:34 Thomas: Don't think that was the accusation was it all

0:08:36 Clip: Here's

0:08:36 Matt: You probably don't stop.

0:08:37 Clip: My understanding. If you lived a good life, people would recognize it like the American Bar Association Association has the gold stamp

0:08:45 Thomas: Right boy that was he was angrier than I even remembered actually that was that was

0:08:46 Matt: You get the idea. Yeah.

0:08:51 Lydia: Was honestly like comical at times like just the performance he's putting on is ridiculous yeah

0:08:57 Matt: It's amazing his bathroom mirror survived that after.

0:09:00 Thomas: It's amazing because I see it so much differently now like I well I do and I don't like I remember laughing it off at the the time. I mean, obviously it was part of what was effective, but who knows? I mean I think it was bound to happen anyway, but I don't know. Now I look at it and I'm like, geez, that was quite a performance. He really sold out for that, you know?

0:09:19 Matt: Yeah I practiced it. Yeah had that monologue down. Yeah so to

0:09:22 Lydia: Well and you as you kind of had the aside there thomas that it wasn't like rape accusations either like it was yeah

0:09:32 Thomas: Yeah, they never care. They never care about the details. It's not, it's just they, yeah it's not at all the accusations.

0:09:33 Lydia: That's why they had to go to gang rapist they hadto go to these like extremes yeah

0:09:39 Thomas: It''s not all there. Yeah, stupid.

0:09:38 Matt: Drugging, there's no drugging. Yeah and

0:09:41 Thomas: It' s just so frustrating. If the facts were on your side, you wouldn't have have to constantly get them wrong and or make them up and

0:09:49 Matt: Christine Blasey Ford I guess had a regular day. She wasn't going through hell, that was fine. So yeah that's uh that's lindsey graham I guess you can uh now he's dead at 71 um

0:09:57 Thomas: Now he's dead I do appreciate that he was lobbying for ukraine you know like I at least he was doing that like it's man poor ukraine I still I I can't believe that like if that had happened and maybe russia wouldn't have done it at any other time but if it happened at any another time I just think we the united states would have been such a strong ally to try to it's the it's fucking russians what do we do have you seen a rocky movie have you know it's like I can't it's it's crazy it's amazing that they've done as well as they have uh ukrainians and I I do at least appreciate lindsey graham for that uh being one of the few like actual allies is

0:10:05 Matt: No credit for that oh yeah yeah no doubt yeah no uh credit where it's due

0:10:40 Lydia: I don't know. Yeah, I mean, did they disclose what the illness was? Or no?

0:10:44 Thomas: Aorta just like burst or something yeah now yeah when they said like it was weird when they Said sudden illness it's Like I guess I don't know it is like something that just blows up in your heart a sudden illness illness I'm ill and then like you're dead yeah I don't really think of it as that way but maybe medically I don' t know how the terminology works oh man well let's hope his sister is just as good

0:10:45 Matt: Hard thing yeah okay

0:10:46 Lydia: So not an illness. Yeah? Yeah? I don t think so. Yeah Yeah, interesting. Interesting what

0:11:12 Matt: Right well next we've got our federalist piece and this is from John Lawton Jr., who I don't believe has made an appearance yet, but he is the Trump administration's favorite crime statistician. So you know he's got to be good. And let's pull this one up here.

0:11:27 Matt: He's an economist with a lot of challenge stuff.

0:11:25 Lydia: Are his qualifications okay

0:11:23 Thomas: Great he's as good at numbers as matt

0:11:31 Matt: That's right, pretty much. He actually, he's a gun rights advocate. That's his main qualification. He loves guns. He wrote a gun called, excuse me, he wrote a con. Man, I've read so many guns this year.

0:11:45 Thomas: It's probably more accurate yeah

0:11:48 Matt: I like to listen to guns, actually. He wrote a book called More Guns, Less Crime. So, yeah, that's the kind of science we're working with here.

0:11:59 Lydia: He did get his phd in economics yeah

0:11:59 Thomas: More

0:12:01 Matt: Yeah, no, he does have legitimate...

0:12:02 Thomas: Tigers fewer tiger attacks okay I guess I don't yeah

0:12:04 Lydia: But again like one of those things that that we know about stats is it's really really easy to find stats to support your position if you're going into something with it yeah you already know what side you're coming out on yeah all

0:12:15 Matt: As we will find. As we'll find. I think that he was actually the chief economist of the Sentencing Commission back during the Reagan years. He did all kinds of actual academic stuff. I say a lot of it's been challenged, but he's probably one of those guys, I get the sense, who has just been writing in his own bullshit for long enough that he's just going to write whatever. And as you'll find when we read this piece, this really is just whatever. This adds up to nothing, what this is going to say. I'm really looking forward to seeing how you pick this apart, because I don't know what he's trying to even say here. Certainly he's not trying to say what he says in the headline. Line, as often happens in The Federalist. So let's check out the headline.

0:12:48 Thomas: Trump's immigration enforcement really is slashing violent crime why

0:12:52 Matt: It really is John Lott Jr. Let's see how that holds up.

0:12:55 Thomas: Would that be even anything that I guess if oh they oh these idiots minds they're just like well the immigrants are the ones doing all the crime so unnaturally it's

0:13:03 Lydia: So both of the things are going down so yeah all

0:13:05 Thomas: So stupid all right

0:13:04 Matt: And we're mass deporting. Yeah. But as we'll find, it correlates about as well as gas prices, probably, to violent crime. So July 9th, 2026, The Federalists. Let's Do It.

0:13:12 Lydia: Is crime falling some conservatives notably steve bannon argue that americans should ignore the fbi's crime statistics showing record drops in violent crime yeah

0:13:24 Thomas: Because it's like they're really caught in a bind they're like do I do I we constantly have to fear monger on violent crime all the time especially when it's like mom donnie you know we got to say like there's no way yeah whatever he's doing it's gotta make yeah it's gotta be it's got to be worse and then it's Like well hold on though do we want to argue that immigrants were the ones doing all that shit oh it's but it's high and low it's high it's right it's lower but it's still so high that's probably what they'll that's right what he'd land yeah

0:13:31 Lydia: New york's never been worse Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

0:13:44 Matt: This is just out of the gate. This is a very funny premise, because fascism does require fear. Like, you have to keep people afraid. And you know bannon is out there saying you you should be I went and looked and found I found the whole context of what he's saying he's like yeah you guys should be afraid it's a scary country bad things are still happening don't listen to kash patel which I think is very funny good advice but you know yeah otherwise

0:14:05 Thomas: I mean so yeah I was gonna say I'm sold okay

0:14:07 Matt: Let's keep going yeah

0:14:07 Lydia: The murder rate last year fell to the lowest rate ever recorded, and the violent crime rate is clearly at the lowest in many decades. But Bannon recently declared that, quote, nobody believes FBI crime data or its director, Kash Patel, adding, quote. I don't want to hear any more statistics about how crime's coming down.

0:14:26 Matt: You probably don't want to hear that but

0:14:26 Thomas: I guess that's your your personal choice yeah I can't no one can make you listen to the statistics I guess

0:14:30 Matt: Uh also that this is the last time you're going to see the word murder in this piece that's an important note now let's get going so

0:14:38 Lydia: Interesting. Yeah. That skepticism overlooks an important distinction. The FBI has made mistakes in the past, particularly in its active shooter reports and hate crime data. Some police departments have also failed to report complete crime data to the FBI's uniform crime reports. But those problems do not explain the concerns with the measure of overall crime.

0:14:58 Matt: There's this weird thing all the way through the the piece where he's like, do not trust crime statistics because I'm going to tell you about what the crime statistics mean. But don't trust them because they're unreliable. So I don't know. Good luck.

0:15:10 Lydia: The real issue is understanding what different crime measures actually tell us. Past problems with the FBI's measure of crimes reported to police do not mean anyone manipulated the data, nor do they mean that last year's reported decline in crime, or the declines so far this year, are inaccurate.

0:15:24 Matt: A couple things about that. As we're going to find, some of this data includes things that were not reported. We'll explain that in a second. But also, if your premise is that mass deportation has something to do with violent crime going down, we also have to count the fact that mass deportation had something to with people not reporting crimes to the police, which he does not account for there's abs

0:15:39 Lydia: Yeah, great point.

0:15:39 Thomas: And it also is violent crime mass deporting people is violent crime so are you going to count that or do they that's interesting do they count that in the crime statistics like it might make a difference on murders because there have been like I think you posted matt there's what how many uh 40 something shooting the murders and

0:15:44 Matt: That's right state violence yeah no the 30 there have been two that's 38 shootings and yeah I think 11 of those maybe were murders I can't keep up anymore but two this week yeah so many in facilities

0:16:02 Thomas: And then deaths at prison at um you know ice whatever's detention facilities so yeah it's like they should count those imagine if we counted that crime

0:16:10 Lydia: Oh, yeah, there's no way that's included in crime. No way.

0:16:11 Matt: It's spiking um yeah it is uh well I again he doesn't acknowledge the fact that you're creating an environment where people don't report. And that's important. Let's keep going.

0:16:22 Lydia: The United States has two primary measures of violent crime. The FBI tracks crimes reported to police. The Bureau of Justice Statistics National Crime Victimization Survey estimates both reported and unreported crime. Researchers have known for decades that most crimes never reach the police. Victims report only about 40 percent of violent crimes and roughly 30 percent of property crimes. The media focuses almost exclusively on FBI crime data. Before 2020, 2020, FBI data and the NCVS, that National Crime Victimization Survey, generally moved in the same direction. During the Biden administration, however, they sharply diverged. While reported violent crime fell by about 8 percent, total felony violent crime measured by the NCvs surged 59 percent, the largest four -year percentage increase since the survey began more than five decades ago. Several factors explain that gap. Whether victims report crimes depends heavily on whether they believe police will catch and punish offenders.

0:17:18 Lydia: As cities reduced police staffing through budget cuts, retirements, and in some places, quote, defund the police policies, arrest rates declined. Lower arrest rates gave victims less reason to report crimes. Some police departments also made reporting more difficult. In some jurisdictions, 911 operators asked whether the offender was still at the scene. If the answer was no, as it almost always was, they instructed victims to visit a police station later to file a report. Simply calling 911 does not place a crime in the FBI statistics. An officer must complete an official report. When governments make reporting more burdensome, some victims understandably decide it isn't worth the effort.

0:17:56 Matt: None of this makes sense to me, I got to tell you. The victims are going to know ahead of time that it's more burdensome because they're gonna have to fill out a report. When you call 911, I think you expect there's going to be a police report. I don't understand what they're talking about.

0:18:10 Thomas: Police departments also made reporting more difficult in some jurisdictions 9 -1 -1 operators asked whether the offender was still at the scene is that the police department though they don't control do they would they tell 9 -11 well maybe the

0:18:25 Lydia: I mean, yeah, I think they are part of the police department, the dispatchers.

0:18:26 Matt: Just as a policy, that

0:18:29 Thomas: Answer was no as it always was instructed visit yeah okay so that's what what made it harder is that yeah

0:18:35 Matt: You'd have to maybe go to a police station in some places. He's trying to explain about why there's less. And again, when we're talking about unreported crime...

0:18:42 Lydia: I mean.

0:18:42 Thomas: I also when you're talking about felony violent crime there's no way that affects this that's got to be a very small like felony violent prime is not going to the crimes that this would apply to is probably like someone stole my bike and they're like are they there no okay report it in the whatever if it's like I've been stabbed I'm sure okay walk over to the police station when you when you can I'm surer like because they said it was felony any violent crime was that was the specific category that they're talking about so I I doubt that if it is this yeah

0:19:00 Matt: Somebody's coming. Right. Well,

0:19:11 Lydia: Also, like trying to just try and imagine a world in which 911 operators are also required to like submit things for reports. And like people are concerned about like their job is to get somebody to you as quickly as possible. Right. As they're fielding calls, they're not doing documentation except for creating the incident number.

0:19:12 Matt: I've just sent you... Oh, good. Right,

0:19:27 Thomas: They're not doing intake like clogging up the lines all right what's your uh social you're just like someone's drowning and on the on

0:19:35 Matt: Just got to email the

0:19:35 Lydia: Can you give me a description of the suspect like they're not going to be doing that and I think that would be bad if they started doing that like we would see you know some slow response rates probably um and they're already overburdened

0:19:37 Matt: FBI real quick. Yeah... Well, let's...

0:19:47 Thomas: Also notice if the okay so I'm already like what I'm on the lookout for is the theory is under biden's fbi they stopped counting in crime. But right now, the first thing is some police departments, Biden didn't control any police departments that I know of. Matt, you can correct me if I'm wrong. Does Biden control police departments?

0:20:06 Matt: I don't think that happened.

0:20:08 Thomas: No. And so I don't think that's going to be it at all. But Matt, you said you sent something or?

0:20:15 Matt: I sent the actual NCVS data so you can just take a quick look because he's about to... The numbers here, I don't know where he's getting these numbers, to be honest. I went looking to try to understand it. There's some weird stuff that you can use to lie with statistics, but the numbers are pretty easy to see. You can take a look at the chart there as you go down this page. There's a very easy to read chart that you Can scroll over and you can see the actual numbers and there's no 59% job, which is something he's going to mention here. Mean, and the crime victim survey is what it sounds like. It's a random survey of people. They just try to get a best cross -section they can to say, hey, have you been the victim of a crime? Notably, one crime that is not on the crime victim survey, you want to guess, is murder. They don't ask you if you've been murdered recently.

0:20:55 Matt: It doesn't really work that way because they're asking about crimes that have happened to you.

0:20:57 Thomas: Have you been murdered recently?

0:20:54 Lydia: Let's oh yeah well that makes sense yeah that would be an odd that would no wonder it's 59 surge we've talked to all these dead people that didn't report that they were murdered

0:20:58 Thomas: Hello? Hello? Hello? Have you ever... Oh my God, I think we got one. But yeah, I want to make sure I'm looking at the right number, but I think this is going to be another great episode of Matt doesn't understand numbers. There is a 16.5 to 23.5, which I think would be... What did he claim? That's a lot.

0:21:12 Matt: I don't know.

0:21:18 Lydia: 59

0:21:19 Matt: He's saying 59 %? That's not 59%. 16 %

0:21:22 Thomas: That is... It's not 59, but it's close to 50 -ish, right?

0:21:30 Matt: To 20 %?

0:21:32 Thomas: It depends on on how you're doing the stupid math, you know, Also, because a big thing with this was like COVID and then not like you pick the most like, yeah, abnormal years.

0:21:38 Lydia: Are you everything was weird during that time period yeah yeah

0:21:43 Thomas: Okay. But it is weird if it said FBI data and that generally in the NCVS moved in the same direction during the Biden administration. However, they sharply diverged. I could see during COVID if there was more like property crime that didn't go reported because it did feel like nothing was working, maybe. I still don't think that's anything to do with Biden, though, because if people aren't reporting, go ahead.

0:22:00 Matt: Also, there's fewer bar fights. There's less violent random crime. People are just not stabbing each other in the streets. There's nobody in the street.

0:22:11 Lydia: People weren't outside for part of that time yeah what

0:22:11 Thomas: So it doesn't say, yeah, it doesn' t give you the exact year, does it? Well, while reported violent crime fell by about about 8%. Total felony violent crime measured surged 59%. Oh, the largest four -year percentage increase. Okay, now we know he's doing four years. Hold on, now that we know that cheat code. So if you get like 20, go 16.4 to 23.3, what is that? That's still not 59.

0:22:25 Matt: I mean, it's

0:22:37 Thomas: It looks like what is likely happening... I mean, we don't know if we have the exact same thing they're using, but with this violent victimization... This is the NCVS. I'm guessing likely what he's doing, because we saw he said four years, he's probably taking the lowest pre-COVID number and then going to the highest like number after that, you know, which, so if it goes from 16.4 to maybe 23.3, that is a big increase, but that's like, it's also relatively speaking lower than it's ever been. And when you talk about a small number and it increases a few points, then you use that as a percentage increase And it sounds really big,

0:22:37 Matt: Nowhere near by

0:23:17 Thomas: Like, oh, my God.

0:23:17 Matt: I mean, look at the left side with the 90s. I mean like it's just a mountain of crime.

0:23:20 Lydia: Exactly. We're doing okay. Okay.

0:23:21 Thomas: It was so much higher.

0:23:22 Matt: Yeah, I mean it's, we are in the safest time that we've ever had in this country. I mean, there's just really no way to argue that, but he's got to blame somebody for why it's so good.

0:23:32 Thomas: Yeah. For why it's so good.

0:23:34 Matt: And again, I just can't make sense of these numbers, but I can rarely make sense of numbers. So I'm glad you're taking a look at them.

0:23:39 Thomas: But it's also again, he's talking about the gap. He's talking About the gap between reported and the estimated, which, again, that wouldn't be Biden's fault. But let's see where he's going with this.

0:23:50 Matt: It's very dinky stuff. I mean, it's not... So

0:23:52 Lydia: Yeah. He's trying to step into this idea that the psychology of of defund the police policies, which is a left position.

0:23:57 Thomas: Which never happened and nobody

0:24:00 Lydia: Right. Like literally has never happened.

0:24:00 Thomas: Did it at all. Yeah

0:24:02 Lydia: They have more money than they've ever had before. That trying to tie that to. Well, now psychologically, people know they're not going to be helped, so they're Not going to report anything. OK. Some police departments. Oh, let's see. We did that one. Fortunately, many of those policies have been reversed. Although reported crime has declined, we will not know whether total crime also fell in 2025 until the Bureau of Justice Statistics releases the next NCVS this September.

0:24:23 Thomas: See. Then we decide what we want it to say.

0:24:27 Matt: What are we talking about? Yeah. What are we taking about in this piece? Okay.

0:24:31 Lydia: Even so, there is good reason for optimism. Reducing crime is not complicated. Governments must make crime riskier by increasing arrests and convictions, imposing longer prison sentences. Oh, my God.

0:24:43 Thomas: It's not complicated. They just need to do these things that have been proven to have no fucking effect on crime whatsoever.

0:24:47 Lydia: And just cost the country a lot of money.

0:24:50 Thomas: Are you kidding me? What it's so it's not complicate. Are there any citations? Weird. No citations in that paragraph. It's not complicated. Just make it really scary for bad guys.

0:25:00 Lydia: Yeah. Well, and now his advocacy position and allowing law abiding citizens to defend themselves.

0:25:05 Thomas: You just need several McGruff. What's the crime dog?

0:25:10 Lydia: McGruff.

0:25:10 Thomas: What is it?

0:25:06 Matt: Guns. Yeah, yeah.

0:25:11 Thomas: McGruff? Yeah.

0:25:11 Lydia: Yeah, yeah.

0:25:12 Thomas: It is just a matter of how many McGruffs you have. Everyone knows it is easy to stop crime. If you have a Batman, that is even better.

0:25:20 Matt: I'm not a criminologist, I'm almost completely sure the best way to reduce crime is to have a better society. I'm almost completely certain based on the rest of the world and places where they have lower crime.

0:25:26 Thomas: People need money and food and housing. Housing is probably probably the number one, I think, if people have housing.

0:25:32 Matt: Giving people houses, that's a big one. Giving People Money.

0:25:35 Thomas: Hey, if you didn't have anything, if you were desperate, ifyou were addicted to something, if your homeless, might you commit crime? I think I think so. I don't think there's any like reason that there's like good people, good souls and bad, evil souls. And it's like, well, it just so happens that they're the ones that also are in poverty and, you know, no housing, addicted, maybe suffering from systemic racism. Who knows what it is? And but they're also just bad. And that's why they do crime, Cause there's bad.

0:26:01 Thomas: Cause you're supposed to just be good in that situation. It's stupid.

0:26:04 Lydia: Now you have to ensure,

0:26:05 Thomas: Society has failed you.

0:26:06 Lydia: Ensure everybody's basic needs as human beings, right? And make sure that those are all met regardless of whatever situation they're in and also build community. I think that's the other piece that's really, really important but yeah

0:26:13 Matt: Well, as someone who lives with a person who goes out to do homicide warrants on just different times, Casey had one of the best ideas I've ever heard for reducing crime. It's so simple. Just give people air conditioners because crime spikes in the summer, especially in some of the poor areas around here and people get restless they get angry they get frustrated and it's human nature this is not their fault like give them air conditioners we could we could save so much in incarceration and have a happier society especially as the planet keeps getting warmer if we have a chill house literally yeah

0:26:47 Lydia: You know there was something there was something I had read a while back that was about some like intentional crime committing I guess by folks who are unhoused during the summer so they can be in a place that has like like actual air conditioning potentially you know depending on what city you're in I guess and like if that's something that they can access yeah I mean why wouldn't you just like provide something for people um so they can be safe and healthy no

0:26:48 Thomas: We all need to be chill here. Oh my God. Have you guys been to this FBI website? Holy shit. I just, so I clicked on a link.

0:27:19 Lydia: Oh did they like a redesign or

0:27:22 Thomas: Yeah hold on. Check this out. Okay. So I clicked that, rising 184%. Check, check this out .

0:27:22 Lydia: Something yeah yeah oh okay

0:27:27 Thomas: What are they? The military? This is the FBI.

0:27:27 Matt: It's fascist it's a fascist website, yeah I know it's

0:27:31 Thomas: And it's like a, it's like a look cash.

0:27:31 Lydia: This is kash

0:27:33 Matt: Black just dark black yeah swat team yeah yeah I

0:27:38 Thomas: My God. The president. Uh, yeah.

0:27:34 Lydia: Patel is such a ridiculous person oh my god he must have been so excited about this.

0:27:41 Thomas: It's so stupid mission first.

0:27:45 Lydia: It's like a wet dream of his. So creepy.

0:27:46 Thomas: I like that. It's one sketch artist made it in there. That's

0:27:48 Matt: Like that guy was just driving trying, steven miller, that was like, yeah

0:27:50 Thomas: You see, you see the sketch artist. He's like armed to the teeth. He's got like a sharpened pencil and a bayonet on the other end of it. Like everybody's just armed like crazy.

0:27:58 Matt: Ready to go all

0:27:53 Lydia: -up competition between girls and boys. Let's show some people we're arresting now.

0:28:03 Thomas: Yeah. Did we get, uh, it's still gone.

0:28:04 Matt: Let's finish this thing yeah

0:28:05 Thomas: I think this is still good. This is still original content.

0:28:07 Lydia: Do you think his girlfriend made it in this? Like, do you think she's like, yeah, an extra or something?

0:28:10 Thomas: As an actress, like a camp, she could be a dead body. That's the thing that every like actor does in New York is be a body for NYPD or whatever.

0:28:13 Lydia: She might be in. I mean, she might have got, like, been able to suit up in some of this gear. We wouldn't know. No, we wouldn't know.

0:28:21 Thomas: No, I think we're repeating now. Darn. I found, I caught the loop. That was, that was a lot of video though. It's just, and so that's your, um, by the way, that's your hyperlink and it's FBI.gov. Okay. I'll just fucking find whatever you're talking about. Yeah.

0:28:33 Lydia: I'll find it myself.

0:28:36 Thomas: Wow.

0:28:32 Matt: Help yourself at it yeah uh

0:28:36 Thomas: The FBI, that proves it. All right, cool.

0:28:38 Matt: So I I just want to make the point um and this is incredibly obvious but the fbi has mostly been doing immigration enforcement in 2025 that's what they were completely redesigned retasked for pam bondy put out a memo saying basically our job as a federal government is to immigration enforcement so they've been out there making arrests of people that don't really have records and they don't have anything on their on their records maybe except illegal re -entry at the most is like the crime that they're charging people with the most crush violent crime. Sorry.

0:28:47 Lydia: Great point. Yeah. Right.

0:29:05 Matt: It's running.

0:29:05 Thomas: This was, sorry, this was the other link I was seeing what the, the other one was, uh, joint operations with state and local agencies increased by 197%. And that took me to a Facebook reel of Kash Patel's weird face saying, we're awesome. I don't know. Who cares?

0:29:08 Matt: Crush violent crime, right? Yes. Yeah.

0:29:20 Thomas: None of those aren't really like sources. If you're going to like cite your sources, it's like, well, the FBI said.

0:29:22 Matt: But yeah, what

0:29:20 Lydia: Yeah, well, yeah and the time frame because I didn't read that paragraph just so listeners can hear FBI arrest surged in 2025 rising 184 percent over 2024 levels. So to Matt's point about just, you know, yeah.

0:29:36 Matt: They're actually doing and who they're arresting, that is not because they're being more effective in going after the most dangerous people on the planet. It is just not.

0:29:46 Lydia: Voters also replaced several George Soros-backed prosecutors in jurisdictions such as Los Angeles and San Francisco with district attorneys who prosecute criminals more aggressively and seek tougher sentences. Across the country, President Trump's U.S. attorneys have also pursued criminals far more aggressively than their predecessors.

0:29:52 Thomas: Shut up. Yeah, you could say that. Yeah! How's that going?

0:30:04 Matt: Every sandwich tosser they can find.

0:30:05 Lydia: Every sandwich tosser, every seashells laid out in a particular manner.

0:30:08 Thomas: Violent sandwich crime is down 200%. Yeah.

0:30:14 Lydia: Yeah. Very violent.

0:30:15 Thomas: Seashell and sandwich crime were at all -time highs under the previous administration.

0:30:19 Lydia: In Washington, D.C., for example, the Biden administration's U.S. attorney declined to prosecute 67 percent of those arrested. Under U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro, that figure has fallen to just 4%. Okay.

0:30:32 Matt: That's not something to brag about necessarily that you're bringing every single case that they could be yeah

0:30:34 Thomas: Not really.

0:30:35 Lydia: Well, exactly. And then they're forced a lot of times to drop it then eventually anyway. So what are we doing here?

0:30:40 Matt: And getting

0:30:41 Thomas: Especially because like arrest, they arrest people for so many things. Like there's no way that 96 % of them should be like charged with a crime.

0:30:49 Matt: And they're getting record numbers of no bills he doesn't mention that but they can't get the indictments through the grand jury so what does that tell you your four percent is not impressive number that's that's not your part of being a prosecutor is having some discretion yeah yeah it's North Korea just like prosecuting everything in front of you like that's just not how it's supposed to work um

0:30:58 Lydia: That's inefficient and foolish. Right, exactly? Yeah, yeah. Nor is it a coincidence that the record influx of illegal immigrants during the Biden administration coincided with a sharp increase in violent crime.

0:31:14 Thomas: It sure is a coincidence.

0:31:14 Matt: It's not a coincidence because that's completely out of order The spike was in 2020, and the border surge was after that. The spike in crime that he's talking about, like the big one, as I understand it. And then the border shortage was basically through 2021, if that's how you're going to look at it. So that's backwards. I don't really know what he's even talking about there.

0:31:18 Thomas: It's like, oh, yeah. I was like, yeah, yeah. It's also just correlation. It is not causation. It is that also like things were bad during COVID for a lot of reasons. And you have talked about the reason for the surge at the border. And also that was not people, they were not coming like, how many, do we know how many people came in? They talk about the stats of like, there was, you know, there was a surge at border, Matt, but do we know, like what are the numbers of the actual increase in, and also here is the other thing. If this was real wouldn't you have data about like all right well here's where the immigrants go especially if you're talking about illegal immigrants okay it'd all be like california southern californIA you know arizona whatever it's like the border states well

0:32:09 Lydia: Well, you would know everywhere where they are. You absolutely would. Yeah.

0:32:13 Thomas: I'm just saying like if you were actually proving this in any data -minded way you'd look statistically where they are you'd be like wow crime is way up there and you'd also have to do another thing which they they would never do, which is control for other variables like poverty and like, you know, filter all that out and try to get to like the actual amount that illegal immigration was increasing it. And when you do that, it increases it by negative probably because of every stat is like immigrants commit lower, less crime than people who live here.

0:32:42 Thomas: So I am, yeah, exactly. So I imagine once you do all that math, it's probably negative. Um, but, but still that's, you can't just say it's it's not a coincidence you know it's not a consequence that that was an increase in violent crime really well you can just say that, yeah mm

0:32:42 Lydia: Because they don't want to get deported.

0:32:59 Matt: There also wasn't a Biden crime wave. As he says, violent crime fell at about 8%. The murder spike, which again, he doesn't mention murder. He just mentions the first paragraph because he's mostly focused on the self-reporting. 30% single-year jump, as I found it, under Trump, peaked in 2021. So fell from there. So his 59%, which we still don't even know where that's really even coming from. And if it's coming from anywhere, it's a very small, marginal sort of change in the overall numbers. And he also mentions friend of the show, Chesa Pudin. There's a reference there to the recalls of those Soros -elected prosecutors, which was in 2022, I think his recall was. So I'm not really I'm not sure what that's about, but all

0:33:39 Lydia: It is equally unsurprising that crime has fallen as deportations have increased. Deportation records show that 70% of illegal immigrants deported during the Trump administration had either criminal convictions or pending criminal charges in the United States.

0:33:53 Thomas: That yeah but they would they would have like a speeding ticket from 40 years ago would be some of it you know like not

0:33:59 Matt: Yeah. Those numbers also. Okay. So first of all, charged or convicted is doing a lot of work there. Obviously charged can be, you charged with unlicensed operation. And I've seen so many of those cases where it's just, you have a couple and not even traffic tickets, just like unlicensed operation or littering or whatever, like very small stuff. So charged to 70%, but that's throughout 2025, that number continued to rise eyes of people that they're arresting who had absolutely no charges, even for the small stuff. And right now, 70% are estimated right now to have absolutely no records that are in custody. It's a new record. It's never been anything like that. 70 % do not have records versus what he's saying that there are pending

0:34:02 Thomas: Real yeah well

0:34:36 Matt: Charges. It is the other way around. I can actually show you right now from TRAC, which is one of the most reliable sources of immigration data out there. They have a very easy, straightforward thing. They've got the numbers for you. And I can tell you from from personal experience. Now, this is anecdotal, but I was just in immigration court this afternoon in the detained docket in Chelmsford. And for the first time in my entire career, I sat there for two hours and watched nobody with a single criminal charge on their record coming before the judge. All of these people had been pulled into check -ins, had been pulling into Walmart parking lots, had be pulled in. There was one person who had a pending domestic violence charge that involved a mutual slap fight between him and his wife, and the judge granted him bond. I mean, that was it. I've never seen... Usually in the detain docket, you're going to see at least least a few people with some records yes

0:34:37 Lydia: Interesting. So he, yeah, exactly. The exact opposite. Wow.

0:35:20 Thomas: I don't know I think I'm I hate to contradict you but when you click their source it is a DHS website that has like mugshots and like what the people did and yeah and no they're all yeah look how non -white they are too so that's how you know that they must be violent and like yeah you can probably find the worst groups of you know take the worst examples of any group of people they're going to be really bad uh you know murderers and stuff and I don't think anybody disagrees with With deporting violent criminals who are undocumented from our country after they, you know, if that's the end of the process, like unless there's any pending, like, you know, criminal, I don't know, any trials, anything. Right. I mean, pretty much everybody's like, well, yeah, sure. But that's not what we're talking about. You already made it clear that they trumped this up by charging them or saying they're guilty of stuff that's not what you would think of as violent crime at all. And even then you're saying it's like not particularly it's it's lower than it's ever

0:35:27 Lydia: Press release?

0:35:29 Matt: The 10 worst people yes of the millions yeah scary yeah

0:35:36 Lydia: Yeah.

0:36:22 Matt: Yeah

0:36:22 Thomas: Been yeah

0:36:22 Matt: I sent you the track number and you can see like right there they've got it it's very easy to see um and so I don't know what that number he's is outdated that's from january but they have had a sharp increase in people with no records at all and I will say even people with violent records from 20 or 30 years ago should get a look at the cases and right now the law is designed not to let let them even have a look to see if they're reformed or if anything's, you know, keeping them from staying with their families. I mean, we do have to consider each individual situation, except for some of the most extreme cases, I think. But you see that number there in the pie chart.

0:36:47 Thomas: I can pull that up that's interesting oh wow plus you see okay so for listeners really interesting um so there's this chart that's like oh wow isis detained so many people Yeah.

0:37:04 Matt: Yeah. It's really like nothing before.

0:37:06 Thomas: Wow. So CBP used to do way more of the detention.

0:37:10 Matt: Yep. The border stops.

0:37:12 Thomas: Huh. Yeah. It says 42,000 out of 60,000 or 70% held an ICE detention of no criminal conviction, according to data as current as of April 4th this year. Many of those convicted committed only minor offenses, including traffic violations. Yeah, I don't think those traffic violations are showing up in your crime data. To hi I'd like to report so I saw someone speeding yeah okay I

0:37:36 Matt: I mean... But I will tell you, though, they will call it, because I've had this happen to my clients multiple times in public, in the press. They will call an undocumented person with a charge for driving without a license, which is basically a civil offense, a criminal alien.

0:37:48 Thomas: Mean it's practically murder when you think about it

0:37:50 Matt: And you hear the phrase criminal alien, and you think this guy's got to be a rapist or something, a gang member, sounds pretty bad.

0:37:59 Matt: Anyway, so we can finish this nonsense up, but

0:37:51 Lydia: Very violent. Let's

0:37:53 Thomas: Shocking stay

0:38:02 Lydia: Even those who avoid arrest understand that any contact with law enforcement could lead lead to deportation, giving them a strong incentive to stay off the police's radar and avoid committing additional crimes.

0:38:14 Thomas: Off the police's radar wouldn't that mean they could be committing crime getting away with it though or not being reported if they're committing crime within an immigrant community yeah

0:38:20 Lydia: Finally,

0:38:15 Matt: So he's constantly undermining himself in the same paragraph it's like these super violent dangerous people are only being not violent because they've seen the example I guess I don't know but yeah is

0:38:32 Lydia: The number of adults carrying concealed handguns has risen sharply, with the latest survey data showing a five percentage point increase in concealed carry over the past year and a half.

0:38:41 Matt: That sharp he's

0:38:42 Thomas: That's when he's bringing in the wait was that the what was the the title of this thing? Oh, it was immigration enforcement. Oh, okay. He's smuggling this in a little bit. Yeah. That's definitely for sure part of it. Yeah, a five percentage point increase in concealed carry. That is doing it.

0:38:44 Lydia: Focus on immigration. Yeah.

0:38:53 Matt: Got to throw his thing in yeah you should

0:38:59 Thomas: Yes.

0:39:01 Lydia: Americans shouldn't blindly accept crime statistics, but they need to understand what the different numbers actually measure the f yeah where

0:39:07 Matt: Probably accept my crimes it is obviously my 59 yeah yeah

0:39:08 Thomas: Only the good ones.

0:39:11 Lydia: I link things to a home page of a website with no information on it the fbi's numbers show that reported crime has fallen dramatically while the ncvs will tell us this september whether total violent crime has also declined okay why are you writing this article wait until september then wait until those numbers come out that's crazy stronger law enforcement more aggressive prosecution and greater accountability provide good reasons to to expect that the encouraging trend in reported crime reflects a real improvement in public safety. Man, I'm curious what those numbers are going to be. I hope they prove him wrong. I just want to shove it in his face.

0:39:24 Matt: Fingers crossed. Can't wait. Yeah.

0:39:47 Thomas: You hope crime is up. No. Yes It is just stupid. I mean, again, if you really wanted to make claims about this, you would, you'd take a more detailed look. You'd look at different regions. You've looked at different, you know, what's going on demographically in terms of poverty, in terms of homelessness, in term of all this different stuff. You actually take a data driven view and you'd find that all this is stupid. There's no way it has anything to do with concealed carry. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life.

0:40:13 Matt: Just throw that in.

0:40:14 Thomas: Yeah. I love that.

0:40:14 Matt: And it's, yeah.

0:40:15 Thomas: And also, um, they've been putting more chips in the chip bags lately. And I think that has something to do. You're just grabbing a thing that has some nothing to do with anything yeah

0:40:24 Matt: He's also not even trying to cash the check in the headline. Like he's not even trying to bring it home with that at all. He just mentions in passing that, you know, immigrants.

0:40:30 Thomas: You'd think your final thing would be about your thesis

0:40:33 Matt: Yeah, no immigrants. No. Oh, I meant to mention to the DC thing, there is actually an explanation for that 67 % declination rate. And It is that they They decertified the forensics lab at DC in 2021. I forgot to mention that before. So they suddenly couldn't prosecute a lot of crimes because they didn't have a forensics lab. So there was a couple of years there.

0:40:33 Thomas: Statement yeah yeah was

0:40:50 Matt: It wasn't until 2023.

0:40:48 Lydia: Interesting. Oh,

0:40:51 Thomas: That because the forensic lab was too good and ethical or or

0:40:53 Matt: That's right. It was convicting too many people. And the Soros people hated it. Now, they didn't get their accreditation back till late December 2023. So there's like years there where they had to decline because they couldn't prosecute in court. So that's, you know, relevant.

0:41:04 Thomas: That could be part of it all right we've got to take our break and thank our amazing patrons I gotta thank this second group of hall of famers of all-time greats and they are thank you to Nick Fish Thomas-Wrong, Lydia-right... Linkin Park rules okay sure a negative phenomenon this next one's my favorite I like that it's very selfless uh patroning that's the starbucks equivalent of like I have

0:41:25 Lydia: I know. It's really cute. Oh, a pay it forward kind of thing. Yeah. I'll get their coffees.

0:41:34 Thomas: That's great yeah uh (You Gotta) Fight For Your Right (To Ex Parte) and that's who benefited from the uh from the coffee Jaysank Vehicular Man's Laughter That's it That's the joke inadvertently inducing interest in imminent improvised in-person invitations David Souther Taints all the way down Two Taint Todd featuring Linkin Bizkit Today's episode is brought to you by the letter and then you can't tell what it is cavalri Thomas Freeman Cajunkilla Fraud Fishy Hates Everything Chris Simpson Worst timeline ever! Anonymous Aquila and check out, I'm gonna do it right, www.galenacomic.com for a cool webcomic. Finally, finally, I think I said that right. Right. OK. All right. We'll take a quick break and then get to more vapid response.

0:41:52 Lydia: There you go. Wink and biscuit.

0:42:17 Matt: Next up, we have Nancy Mace, one of the nuttier people in Congress right now. I think she's really kind of been slept on. There's a lot going on with Nancy Mace. Maybe that wasn't the best choice of words. The only thing I really know about her is telling a prayer breakfast about the great sex she's had that morning. You might remember that from...

0:42:34 Thomas: Is she not the one with the giant husband balloon boobs?

0:42:35 Lydia: That's all you know about her? No. That is Kristi

0:42:37 Thomas: Oh, they're all the same person to me.

0:42:38 Lydia: Noem. No. No Nancy Mace is not. She does not have a husband right now. She has been married and divorced twice. Was engaged And then called off the engagement and then named her ex -fiance in Congress as one of the men who sexually assaulted her. And yeah.

0:42:46 Thomas: Like a good Christian. Oh,

0:42:53 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, and then he said you did that in Congress so you could avoid liability. So I have no recourse. Yeah

0:43:02 Matt: To be clear, telling a national prayer breakfast that you had great sex that morning is not a problem. We should do that. I mean, that's fine, but I just think it's funny.

0:43:07 Thomas: That's really funny.

0:43:09 Matt: So the premise of this article, governing America means loyalty to America is completely wrong, like just totally false. And it's an easy one. It's just a central thing. And I just Think it's really stupid and I wanted to read it. So let's take a look.

0:43:22 Thomas: Well, I would agree with it. Insofar as you know trump shouldn't be loyal to like russia or some shit but yeah other than that

0:43:28 Matt: Yeah, but she's talking about judges, of course. And she's specifically talking about Judge Sparkle Signanen of DC, who recently overruled Trump on on this ridiculous voter registration thing. We'll get into it here, but I'm going to save the thing.

0:43:41 Lydia: Her name's Sparkle? That's cool.

0:43:42 Thomas: That fucking rules judge sparkle Sukhnanan wow

0:43:43 Matt: Her name is Sparkle. Yeah, she's been in the middle of some cool stuff in the last year.

0:43:46 Lydia: Trinidad and Tobago. Cool! Oh, I love that. Okay. America...

0:43:47 Thomas: That's an awesome name you got to be a hard what if you're the hardest ass judge we got judge sparkle fuck it's

0:43:55 Lydia: Not again. Again.

0:43:57 Matt: You're going to the chair. She's going to light you up.

0:44:01 Lydia: America was overruled this week.

0:44:04 Thomas: America lost 5 -4 in the court.

0:44:07 Lydia: How did we get here?

0:44:09 Thomas: What?

0:44:09 Lydia: To a place where foreign-born officials get to decide the laws Americans live under? This week, Judge Sparkle Sukhnanan, yes, this is her real name, a Biden-appointed federal judge born in Trinidad and Tobago, blocked the Trump administration from using the SAVE database to verify voter citizenship data months before the midterms, a foreign-born judge who reportedly never renounced her foreign citizenship just blocked the federal government from verifying who is actually eligible to vote in america yeah

0:44:38 Matt: Let me just say that's insane to say that she's supposed to have renounced her foreign citizenship. Also, I don't even know how Trinidad does it. Maybe you can't. I don' t know, but it doesn' t matter. Your naturalized citizeness of 2009 that's it that's the end of the story you get to be a judge but check out what she's going to be doing with this information the next paragraph

0:44:50 Lydia: At her confirmation hearing on march 20th 2024 judge sparkle oh my gosh okay so she calls her by her first name too that's so disrespectful sukhnan

0:45:01 Matt: It's so insulting she's a judge use her last name

0:45:03 Thomas: Because if you said Judge Sukhnanan, it would sound like, oh, that's more like a normal person. You got to say Judge Sparkle to really make sure you're othering them.

0:45:06 Lydia: And yeah yeah Yeah. Ridiculous. Judge Sukhnanan, and I'm not going to other them, made a promise under oath. She pledged to renounce her Trinidad and Tobago citizenship to fulfill her duties. Recent reports suggest she never did. She took the bench anyway. One foot in America, one foot in a foreign nation. Let this sink in.

0:45:29 Matt: This is so offensive like just beyond even the stuff we usually read so let me let me just send you actually where Lindsey Graham is going to back in this story for a moment I'll send you this this is her questionnaire her judicial questionnaire it's on the first page you can easily pull it up Lindsey Graham asks reasonably I think are you currently have you ever been a citizen of another country I think it's a pretty standard question for a judicial nominee.

0:45:31 Thomas: Pledge to renounce? Yeah,

0:45:48 Matt: And so she lists her countries of citizenship, if you want to pull that up. And she's been a U .S. citizen naturalized since 2009. B, if your are currently a citizen of a country besides the United States, do you have any plans to renounce your citizenship? Now, again, this is not required. Only the president has to be a natural born citizen.

0:46:06 Matt: There's nobody else who's required to have been born here. You can naturalize and become a judge or any of the federal official. So her response is she gives the oath that she you took, the naturalization oath, about exactly what was required. And then, Lydia, if you want to read the next paragraph.

0:46:19 Lydia: In addition, In addition, in connection with my prior

0:46:21 Thomas: Well, sorry. I mean, I think it's important to read that oath. I hereby declare on oath that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince. So yeah. Okay. So it said that.

0:46:26 Matt: But you're not renouncing your citizenship, though. You're just renounc ing your allegiance, basically. You re saying you re not going to put that other country first.

0:46:37 Thomas: Yeah. Close enough, man. I don't know. Who cares? Yeah.

0:46:41 Lydia: And current federal

0:46:45 Matt: Hey,

0:46:48 Lydia: Employment, I pledged to take any steps to renounce my Trinidad and Tobago citizenship as needed to fulfill my duties, including if such steps were required by law. If confirmed as a federal district court judge, I would do the same.

0:46:58 Matt: Good news. It's not required by law. So

0:47:02 Thomas: Okay. So she's like, hey, yeah, the minute I would need to, I will.

0:47:05 Matt: But I don't need to because it's ridiculous. Nobody makes you do that. So the entire premise is that she somehow, I guess, perjured herself. Is that really what she's trying to say? That she said she was going to do it? She said she would do it if she needed to.

0:47:16 Lydia: She promised she would do this. And

0:47:17 Matt: Yeah. It's ridiculous, so that's, yeah.

0:47:18 Lydia: Yeah, only if needed.

0:47:21 Thomas: But hold on. But counter -argument, did you let that sink in though? Because that was part of the argument.

0:47:25 Matt: One foot in America, one foot in a foreign nation. Yeah, all right.

0:47:27 Lydia: This is what America has become. The ruling is questionable, but the real problem runs far deeper than one decision and one judge. Judge Sparkle is not the only one. She is just the latest example. There are plenty more foreign -born officials holding power in this government who have proven time and again their loyalty is not to America. America Ilhan Omar, Shreeth Anandar, I don't know how to say that and I'm so sorry, Pramila Jayapal. I refuse to, yes, go ahead.

0:47:51 Matt: So three very cool people with weird names. Can you believe these weird names? Yeah.

0:47:56 Thomas: Yeah, Yeah. Can

0:47:57 Lydia: I refused to sit by while this happens. The men and women who built this country, fought for it, and died for it deserve better than a government full of people who do not put it first.

0:48:05 Thomas: You give me an example of what they did that is not putting it for, like, you just mentioned names that don't sound like white.

0:48:13 Matt: The thing that made her this mad was this this injunction against the SAVE provision, which was trying to illegally get a bunch of government data in to try to figure out who's a citizen or not, to try purge people out of voter rolls. And the government had to concede it was a violation of the Social Security Act. They basically conceded that. And she did not even find unconstitutional grounds. It's just like a straight up statutory finding. And I can't see the Supreme Court's going to find any different if it gets there. This is a very straight up and down opinion. I'll link to it.

0:48:38 Lydia: So I acted. I introduced two resolutions to fix this. The first is a joint resolution proposing a constitutional amendment requiring members of Congress, federal judges, and Senate -confirmed officers to be natural -born citizens of the United States.

0:48:50 Matt: Godspeed.

0:48:51 Lydia: Yes, this would apply to Judge Sparkle, Omar, Benadar, Jayapal, and others, all of them. If the president and vice president are required to be natural-born citizens, then so should representatives, senators, federal judges at every level, and all Senate-confirmed officers, including ambassadors and public ministers. If you hold power in the American government, you should be a natural - born American citizen. The people writing America's laws, confirming affirming America's judges, and representing America on the world stage should have one loyalty, America, not any other country. Which is part of why they take that oath.

0:49:24 Lydia: The American people deserve leaders who put America first. The amendment closes a gap in our constitution long overdue for closing. Our second resolution goes even further. It proposes a constitutional amendment barring anyone holding citizenship, nationality, or allegiance to a foreign country from serving in Congress, on the federal bench, as president or vice president or in any Senate -confirmed role unless they formally and permanently cut every foreign tie. Under this amendment, if Judge Sparkle failed to renounce her foreign citizenship, it is not a technicality, it is disqualifying. Her rulings blocking American election integrity would be the last one she ever makes.

0:49:58 Lydia: I don't think you can, like, grandfather, like go backwards and say, like you're not a judge.

0:50:03 Thomas: It's an if statement. I think that, you know, what, what's, that kind of admits that, like she wasn't required to do this, you I think also if you did pass this stupid law, if it somehow held up or whatever, judge, yeah, but the judge would just be like, oh, now it's required.

0:50:09 Lydia: That's true. Constitutional Amendment even like it would be incredible. OK,

0:50:20 Thomas: Okay, fine.

0:50:20 Lydia: I renounce it.

0:50:21 Matt: So can we introduce one to keep the president from investing millions of dollars in Saudi Arabia and UAE and being fully invested in other countries.

0:50:28 Thomas: Sure can't, Matt.

0:50:30 Lydia: That permanently cut every foreign tie. Like how

0:50:32 Matt: Every foreign tie, that jumped out at me.

0:50:34 Lydia: Interesting that it's just related to, you know, your birth and not related to your investments or how you profit in the government. Yeah.

0:50:41 Matt: You're real conflicts. Yeah,

0:50:43 Thomas: I saw Trump said the other day that he's just getting away with all that stuff because, yeah. In the first administration, like nobody really cared. It's like the most he's the most honest in this in a way. He just says like well I've been corrupt as hell and like you know I nobody's really done anything about it so I guess it doesn't matter it's like you're right I guess I don't fucking know man

0:50:58 Matt: He learned and you took it. That's right.

0:51:07 Lydia: Yeah. And everybody's spineless in Congress. So we cannot have divided loyalties in the federal government. It is a threat to our national security and an insult to every natural born American citizen. This should not be controversial. Other countries do not apologize for protecting their people and their government. America should be no different. We have heard it all. We've been called racist, xenophobic and hateful. But when you see a pattern of foreign born officials who have proven time and again they are not America first, what is wrong with wanting them out of power. It is not racist.

0:51:10 Thomas: Time and time again can you give me an example or just

0:51:37 Matt: A single one.

0:51:38 Lydia: It's not xenophobic. It isn't hateful. It is doing my job and standing up for the country I was elected to serve. It is a slap in the face to every hardworking American to stay quiet and let this happen. From our first day in office to our last, we serve the American people and the American people alone. They can hold us to it. My colleagues can call me what they want. They can do nothing, like they always do. But the American American people are watching and they are tired of seeing the very people sent here to represent them choose foreign interests over theirs. They see what is happening.

0:51:42 Thomas: She said it's not so do you see what is happening give me one example okay

0:52:11 Lydia: Yeah.

0:52:11 Matt: Not a one.

0:52:12 Lydia: Our resolutions give Congress the tools to fix this. The question is whether they will step up, bring it to a vote, and permanently close this gap once and for all.

0:52:19 Matt: The tools being a constitutional amendment, that is quite a tool to pull out. It's not going to happen.

0:52:22 Thomas: Also the fact that the founders did that for for the presidency and not for other stuff I think means they were think that sounds intentional to me it's not like oh we forgot oh we just added it for the one thing and wasn't that just to stop benjamin franklin from being president or something yeah it's Not like they just left it out yeah

0:52:38 Lydia: See above. See above, haha. Yeah.

0:52:30 Matt: And I mean, I was told my whole life you can come here here and be American and be part of our democracy. And this is just awful. It's so stupid. I think just between, yeah,

0:52:46 Thomas: Most immigrants appreciate america way more than your average american

0:52:53 Matt: I can tell you that. But we got one more short one. We should do the last set of patrons and surprise.

0:52:59 Thomas: Yeah I I can't wait this This is the, oh, it's not the Amuse Douche. It's a, yeah, what is it?

0:53:04 Matt: It's a little dessert. It is a little fun thing on the way on. Yeah, caboose. There we go.

0:53:05 Lydia: Yeah. A caboose. A moose caboose, haha,

0:53:07 Thomas: Amuse Caboose. Caboos Douche?

0:53:09 Lydia: Haha!

0:53:10 Thomas: No, I don't know. All right. Well, we better thank that last group of patrons. Let's take our final break. Thank you to ET, Bob Loblaw's Law Podcast. Philly Basement Bar says we should take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure. Oh, you're just trying to get it out of having your bar ready. Elect Thomas Smith President, American Honkytonk Bar Association.

0:53:52 Thomas: Thank you so much, top patrons. You make this show happen. We'll take our final break here, and then we will get to an amuse -caboose or something all man I already love this already love it says

0:54:04 Matt: Thought you would I thought

0:54:00 Lydia: My gosh the title all

0:54:06 Matt: You might yeah

0:54:07 Thomas: The top 15 bullshit album reviews rolling stone magazine had the balls to publish this is from 2014 so I'm sure there have been many more since then

0:54:16 Matt: I had to go with the classics

0:54:16 Lydia: Right so if you scroll down to number 10 oh

0:54:20 Thomas: Okay we're just going straight to it

0:54:22 Matt: Yeah yeah we can always revisit these I know

0:54:24 Thomas: Wait Okay. Actually,

0:54:24 Lydia: You want to just like take a look at all of them that's

0:54:25 Thomas: I think low, low being mixed is fine. Actually for me, I'm, I think that's mixed is good. Like it's, it's got highs and lows.

0:54:34 Lydia: A david bowie low for anyone who's listening jimmy hendrix are you experienced mixed rating and

0:54:36 Thomas: David Bowie. Oh, Jimi Hendrix experience. Okay.

0:54:35 Matt: We could definitely revisit some of these there are some really good ones yeah

0:54:41 Thomas: Here's the thing. Jimi Hendrix had to write three albums in like a year. It was crazy. In order for his contract, he put out three albums that were fucking incredible in like like five minutes. It's crazy if you look at the schedule.

0:54:46 Matt: And he died at 27 so or

0:54:54 Thomas: Yeah, it's, uh, man, it is. It is good. Uh, I

0:54:55 Matt: 29 27 not

0:54:58 Lydia: Close to the edge rating unknown known. Interesting.

0:54:59 Thomas: Don't know that one. I mean, I know of it, but I don t really care about it. Let's see.

0:55:03 Lydia: The Black Crowes wore paint.

0:55:05 Thomas: Yeah, I dunno what that is.

0:55:04 Matt: My thing yeah

0:55:06 Lydia: Three and a half stars.

0:55:08 Thomas: Okay. Here we go. Yeah.

0:55:09 Lydia: Rolling Stones, Sticky Fingers.

0:55:10 Thomas: I don' t like

0:55:07 Matt: Nobody cares now this one oh I love the stones I love that album okay here we go abbey road we can only agree on abbey red this is one of the great albums of all time so I'll set this up now edward was 20 when he wrote this and he has since renounced it if speaking of renouncing he has renounced this completely so he is his loyalty is now to the beatles but he

0:55:11 Thomas: The Rolling Stones. Uh there we go abbey road unfavorable written by ed ward 20 oh wow 20

0:55:27 Lydia: Was it just like, like he was too influenced by his parents or something that he wrote this? Like, like to hate this?

0:55:31 Thomas: Oops how did I lose it yeah

0:55:33 Matt: Was going through a an anti -beatles period I guess but here's the thing rolling stone actually ran and you can't find this on their to find it in their digital archives. I subscribed to try to find because I want to see a picture of it. You can't find it because they removed it, but they did two reviews.

0:55:46 Lydia: He had, yeah, he had them take it down. He's like, but I can't.

0:55:49 Matt: The review they want you to read is the good one. They ran two at the same time in the same issue because they weren't really sure what to do with Abbey Road, which now, yeah, this is great. Let's do it.

0:55:54 Thomas: These quotes are great oh wow

0:55:59 Lydia: All right. What's it like? Well, I don't much like it, but then I have a thing about the Beatles. Since Revolver, I've been buying their albums, playing them a couple of times and then forgetting about them.

0:56:07 Thomas: Famously forgettable those beatles oh

0:56:08 Matt: Just Revolver,

0:56:10 Lydia: The last album was admittedly exciting in places, but I still don't play it much because there's still too much stuff on it that should have been edited. Of course, the Beatles are still the Beatles, but it does tread a rather tenuous line between between boredom, beadledom, and bubblegum. Side two is a disaster. The slump begins with Because, which is

0:56:29 Thomas: Oh my god was

0:56:25 Matt: Abbey road. Isn't it amazing? The slump, so

0:56:32 Lydia: Song.

0:56:32 Thomas: A rather nothing song are you fucking kidding me it's like the greatest harmony ever recorded just there was no fucking audio tune back then that was just three fucking beatles say double tracking it's

0:56:36 Matt: Beautiful. And the production and like side Side two of Abbey Road is considered to be like one of the great works of rock, like just the entire side.

0:56:49 Thomas: So good they

0:56:46 Lydia: Ringo, I'm just kidding. That Ringo's one of the harmonies.

0:56:50 Thomas: Knew they were done and they poured all their like spare ideas into it and it's just like the oh man

0:56:54 Matt: So good.

0:56:56 Lydia: The biggest bomb on the album is Sun King, which overflows with sixth and then ninth chords and and finally degenerates into a Muzak -sounding thing with Italian lyrics. It is probably the worst thing the Beatles have done since they changed drummers.

0:57:08 Matt: It's beautiful. That is a statement since they changed drummers. That's like most of their career.

0:57:13 Thomas: Didn't the other drummer die or whatever or they yeah oh

0:57:18 Matt: No, they just got Ringo. I don't remember what happened, but George Best, right? It was Best was the guy that they were playing in the clubs with. I know that much.

0:57:24 Lydia: This leads into The Suite, which finishes up the side. There are six little songs, each slightly under two minutes long, all of

0:57:29 Matt: Six Little Socks.

0:57:31 Thomas: Well he's right about that and they're all so good

0:57:32 Lydia: Which are so heavily overproduced that they are hard to listen to.

0:57:36 Thomas: Famously bad producer that who's that nameless producer who produces shitty beatles albums now he lost to obscurity that fucking guy

0:57:42 Matt: Never hear from him again.

0:57:45 Lydia: It is tempting to think that the Beatles are saying with this album that the only alternative to, quote, getting back for them is producing more garbage on this order and that they have priced it so outrageously so that fewer people would buy it.

0:57:58 Matt: This is a good point, actually. I looked this up. In today's dollars, it was $5 American, that'd be $44 today for everyone. Well worth it, but that's an investment.

0:58:05 Thomas: It's a bargain yeah deal

0:58:06 Lydia: I mean, yeah, I guess that's a lot. But if that's so, then why bother to release it at all? They must realize that any album they choose to release is going to get a gold record just because so many people love, respect and trust the Beatles. They've been shucking us a lot recently, and it's a shame because they don't have to. Surely they must have enough talent and intelligence to do better than this. Or do they? Tune in next time and find out.

0:58:09 Thomas: At any price tune in next time yeah well there's no next time I always forget because they released them out of order because they had recorded Let It Be, but then I think they didn't release it until after they broke up. So I guess he hasn't heard Let It Being. I was trying to think what the last album would have been for him. Would it be Sgt. Pepper, I guess? Or I think it would because Let It be.

0:58:32 Matt: It's so good.

0:58:34 Lydia: Amazing.

0:58:53 Thomas: Yeah, I can't remember. Yeah. Anyway.

0:58:56 Lydia: The Rolling Stone response. Oh, and as for that remark on Ringo being the worst thing that happened to them, it's evident you have absolutely no knowledge about drumming and hasn't been about Edward and hasn't been paying enough attention to Ringo's playing. He was an integral part of the Beatles. George harrison stated he never once had to explain himself to ringo he always knew what the song demanded I think ringo got somewhat of a bad rep as amazing players like carmine

0:59:16 Thomas: Ringo is perfect for the Beatles. Whatever. It's great.

0:59:19 Matt: It is. And the album before this was actually Yellow Submarine, and Hey Bulldog is one of my favorite songs of all time. I love that song.

0:59:22 Thomas: Was that really an album or was that that? Cause they did the, it was like a movie they tried to do.

0:59:25 Matt: This is a movie soundtrack, I think. Yeah.

0:59:27 Thomas: And yeah, I wasn't sure if they were counting that.

0:59:28 Matt: It's not my favorite Beatles album, but Hey Bull like it is slept on

0:59:30 Thomas: If you're counting that, sure. But I, I almost wonder if that is, I'm not sure that would be what he's referring to. I don't know.

0:59:35 Matt: I think he's talking about this one but yeah so

0:59:37 Thomas: No, no. I think he said the last one before this, but whatever it's, uh, yeah, no Abby wrote famously shitty album. What's your favorite Beatles album? I don't think we've ever talked about this, Matt.

0:59:38 Matt: The previous right right yeah yeah yeah either way either way number 14 oh man that is tough

0:59:49 Thomas: It's tough.

0:59:49 Matt: Yeah I really it's really hard I'm out of

0:59:53 Thomas: I remember I was talking to my friend about this a long time ago and I was like, well, all. It's Revolver's really good, but I think maybe Abbey Road's the best. And he's like, well, Abbey road's longer. It's like, yeah, it's just more Beatles.

0:59:55 Matt: A favorite there's

1:00:04 Thomas: So I guess it is better.

1:00:02 Lydia: Sergeant

1:00:04 Matt: More of it yeah that's true well by that standard the white album is the best one obviously but and I do the white albums a lot of good stuff on it I really do like it

1:00:09 Thomas: I think the white, okay. Controversial opinion. I THINK the white album, if they had made one album out of the best one albums worth of songs, I THINK it's like one of the greatest albums ever. There's a, there's a there's A LOT in there that maybe shouldn't, shouldn't have been and quiet in there.

1:00:19 Matt: For sure if they condensed it for sure for sure help was my first Beatles album and I still have a special place in my heart for it it's a great album it's just skiffles

1:00:24 Thomas: I love Help. Help is a perfect pop album. It's just so perfect.

1:00:29 Lydia: Peppers was on the most for me growing up so that's what I go to

1:00:30 Matt: Can't

1:00:31 Thomas: Sgt. Pepper is the, like, the consensus -y, that's what Rolling Stone would say is the best one. I don't know.

1:00:37 Lydia: That'swhatedward would say is the best

1:00:38 Thomas: I do not think I can rank Sgt Pepper the best, because John was, like,, sleeping through it. He was, yeah, he was in the, that was, he is in a heroin phase, I think. He was kind of, I mean, even his low effort was still really good, but, but like the, the, there is a a bunch of them where he said like oh yeah the the being for the benefit of mr kite I just saw a poster and the lyrics were literally this old poster advertisement for this like show and he's like that was the lyrics I mean it's fine I don't know yeah but oh abby wrote abby road is so good how could abby rode has something too like it has like one

1:00:32 Matt: Go wrong oh

1:00:38 Lydia: One I don't want to be in league with edward on trampolines

1:01:09 Matt: Yeah literally

1:01:09 Thomas: Of the great I mean george just happened to write like the best beatles song almost you know and and it's I can't believe you could possibly have this opinion about Abbey Road. That's incredible.

1:01:18 Matt: That's why I wanted you to read it uh we might have to come back to this this list because there's some great stuff in here uh but uh it's nice I don't know if Edward was a fascist but it's Nice to read something that wasn't by a fascist I'm pretty sure about not fascism so um

1:01:32 Lydia: Yeah see

1:01:21 Thomas: Good times. Yeah, man, a lot of stuff I probably won't know. Yeah. Good Times. All right. Yeah man, it's hard to not just peek through the rest of that, but I'll hold off. All Right. Well, thanks so much for listening, everybody, and for watching on YouTube. Thanks, Matt and Lydia, for the breakdowns, and we'll see you for Rapid Response Friday.

1:01:46 Lydia: Ya

1:01:51 Clip: This has been Opening Arguments, produced by Thomas and Lydia Smith, with editing help from Peter Baird. The intro is by Thomas Smith. This outro is by Matt Cameron. Support the show at patreon.com/law. Contact us through Patreon or openarguments@gmail.com. Make sure to follow our blue sky at OpenArgs. But most of all, please share the show. Thanks for listening.