Molly Hemingway's Alito Book Is EMBARRASSING Propaganda

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:10 Thomas: And welcome to opening arguments this is vapid response number 34 I think I'm thomas that over there is real life attorney matt cameron how you doing matt

0:00:18 Matt: Pretty good, except that I had my lunch stolen by a seagull, a Boston seagull, my nemesis for the past few months, completely and wholly stolen by a seagull, just an entire piece of veggie pizza lifted right off my plate.

0:00:24 Lydia: Series. Oh, my God. Oh my

0:00:26 Thomas: Maybe

0:00:33 Matt: So didn't really have time to eat anything else.

0:00:33 Lydia: God, that's amazing.

0:00:35 Thomas: Did we did Did we accidentally stiff them on Patreon or something? There must be a reason.

0:00:38 Lydia: Gary the seagull you have to tell us.

0:00:38 Matt: I think they've been listening. I think the seagulls are MAGA around here.

0:00:44 Thomas: No, they support our show. Don't mess up our seagulll lore, Matt. Look, just because you made some mistake that led to a seagull, I'm victim blaming. You are. The seagull's the victim, actually. You should have had a better lunch for it. I'm team seagull all the way. Whatever you did, you deserved it. All right. How are you going? How are YOU doing, Lydia?

0:01:00 Matt: Did seem pretty disappointed by the veggies, I gotta say, but yeah. Okay.

0:01:03 Lydia: A seagull.

0:01:03 Thomas: Yeah, did spit it back out at you to come back and like, and I'm just like, this sucks.

0:01:08 Lydia: A sea gull did not steal my lunch. I had veggie enchiladas. So I'm doing pretty well. Better than Matt, I guess.

0:01:14 Thomas: Yeah, CMAT's not that hard.

0:01:17 Lydia: I ate inside. I guess that was part of it is that it's a lot harder.

0:01:16 Matt: Eat something heavier. My

0:01:19 Thomas: We also don't live anywhere near seagulls, but, you know, I still think you could learn something from.

0:01:24 Lydia: They they get everywhere. They honestly get everywhere yeah evolves

0:01:28 Matt: First mistake. Just

0:01:28 Thomas: Yeah, well, we'll have to see how the seagul lore, you in the Patreon shoutouts. Well, so maybe we'll get a message back from the seagles. Hey, what's going on? I feel like there's been some some good news. Uh the we're not going to cover it necessarily today but maybe rapid response friday I hear that uh Todd Blanche had to go and say like fine if you don't want us to steal all the money from the government I guess we won't and like that he's like mad about it uh so that's good we'll cover that probably yeah yeah if you're gonna be like really weird about it I guess we won't steal from the treasury

0:01:54 Matt: Because you noticed. Yeah.

0:01:55 Lydia: Well like and everybody on the left was going to make claims and stuff too where they're like oh

0:02:05 Thomas: But that basically just broke we'll probably cover that for rapid response Friday. I'm guessing, Matt, what are we covering today?

0:02:12 Matt: Well, speaking of evolved, Samuel A. Alito, one of our favorite evolved people.

0:02:17 Thomas: Who probably doesn't believe in evolution. I

0:02:21 Matt: Releasing uh the book by molly hemingway that recently came out we're going to read an excerpt that was recently published in the federalist of which of course molly hemingway is the editor editor -in -chief or edectrix in chief I guess edectrics is the word I might be pronouncing that wrong but that is a female editor isn't it districts yeah I

0:02:33 Lydia: I think

0:02:35 Thomas: Think you can just go with editor.

0:02:36 Lydia: Just call editor -in -chief it's

0:02:37 Matt: Can't help myself uh but we'll talk a little bit more about the book and what we're gonna be doing with it but I think this is a great excerpt to read um and we've also uh we're to stop collaborate and listen with a little amused douche from uh everybody's favorite 90s white rapper and

0:02:52 Thomas: Oh, fantastic. Fantastic. I love it. Can't wait.

0:02:53 Lydia: So crazy yeah yeah

0:02:56 Matt: Finally we've got one more piece from the washington examiner which we're just going to pull right apart uh it's going after eugene carroll who also has made the news recently we might talk about that in a way as well but the attempts perhaps to charge her with a crime or maybe not and maybe not who knows just gonna mess with her um but

0:03:09 Thomas: Or maybe not. Yeah, you never know. What a dumb, just like, just for the kids in the audience, like the Department of Justice used to just pretty much only say things that they were actually doing. Now it's like we're, we're chart, we, we might, they're like gauging our reaction. We're going to chart. No, they'RE like running a focus group kind of. Yeah.

0:03:30 Lydia: It's a vibe check yeah yeah

0:03:36 Thomas: It's like they're, they, they said they were investigating. They said they're charging or what did they say?

0:03:35 Matt: Do they uh yeah do the kids still say they're doing it for the gram because I think that's what this is I'm about 15 years behind huh yeah uh we'll see but the important part is a washington examiner um is engaging in some disgusting um well we'll see I'm gonna save it yeah you really have to see how bad this gets this is the purpose of the show here to respond to this kind of thing it

0:03:48 Thomas: Yeah, probably. All right. Well, love it. We will do so. Let's take our first break. And it's, Of course, this whole show is brought to you by the amazing patrons at patreon.com/law. And we have recorded the Law and Awful movies, the movie Green Card, which, boy, that was a movie. It was a move. It was the movie that happened. We watched it, and I can't wait for you all to hear it. That'll be out very soon.

0:04:16 Matt: Was it was unusually divisive I have to say we uh uh, didn't agree as much as usual.

0:04:23 Thomas: I guess. I don't know. It did divide the sane people from people who were doing some weird bit. I don' t know. Out uh so let's thank our first third of hall of famers these are the five dollar and above patrons at the hall of fame level there on patreon .com slash law thank you to nobbling the jury helps me get off I love that one so much because it's also true Rebecca My house is a mess but I read a lot of books Griff, the Tired 1L Gary the seagull there you go one one sandwich heavier Xavier, uh, Matthew Cutlar, autistic streamer at twitch.tv/MTC_streams. There you go. MTC underscores streams. You can always use your shout out for a, for a plug. Veterinary for America, 2028, one man, one vote. Unremarkable. Hello. Hi, vehicular man's laughter. After, how are you? Ham cookout alumni, Amina, Donna, my favorite, Donna

0:04:42 Lydia: Gary

0:04:44 Matt: Never gets old.

0:04:52 Lydia: Nice nice. Does

0:05:14 Thomas: Treadway, Mother of Harridans, Mike Lapinsky, senile felines. Is that, oh, wow. That is a palindrome.

0:05:20 Lydia: That work?

0:05:21 Thomas: Wow. Senile felines. Wow, that's, that'S cool.

0:05:23 Lydia: Wait. Oh, wow.

0:05:25 Thomas: Interesting. Cyanitis, is it mothersday .com? So good. Oh, it's such a good one. Dear old dads.

0:05:32 Lydia: You told me about that one because I missed last week with you guys

0:05:34 Thomas: I made sure that Lydia knew about that one. One. Great preponderance of the evidence. Also love that one. Mr. Chief Justice and may it please the court. Last trained skanksville. Apprentice of adventure and probably a real person. Thank You so much to Our First Third of Hall of Famers. And we'll take a quick break and get on with that. Oh no, an amuse -douche. A great amuse douche. I'm excited. Alright, Matt.

0:06:00 Thomas: Who's our, what is our amuse douche? This is, I mean, it's our this should be the logo for a douche. When I think of the word douche, I actually think of roughly this image.

0:06:08 Matt: One yeah no uh this is uh this is a man who will whack a chump like a candle I am told uh killing your brain like a poisonous mushroom that is a lyric I have way too many of these lyrics in my head I was 10 when this song came out so you do the math uh wax a chump like a handle that makes no sense you don't wax a candle um but I don't understand how that any of that works I don't understand most of what he's saying in this?

0:06:13 Lydia: It's pretty close is that a lyric oh okay wax

0:06:18 Thomas: What? Uh wax a chump like a candle yeah

0:06:33 Lydia: Oh oh I sorry wax I was thinking like hit with something like

0:06:38 Thomas: Well I think it's supposed to be the double meaning is whacking someone

0:06:41 Matt: Perhaps, but he's also killing your brain like a poisonous mushroom. And that worked pretty well for me in 1990. My brain is dead. So check out the hook while my DJ revolves it. Hit it, Thomas.

0:06:47 Thomas: What I don't know what's happening uh are we introing at all what this is or no this well

0:06:58 Matt: This has been always talking about why he's going to perform for Trump. That's it.

0:07:01 Thomas: So yeah this is uh we should give some background so there's the 250 year bullshit about the country or some crap. Who cares? Yeah. And I guess they originally were, I guess, they were booking musicians under the idea that it was like a nonpartisan, just like a parade type thing, which again, if Trump is president, I don't really think you can ever believe that, but whatever.

0:07:02 Lydia: Birthday or whatever

0:07:24 Thomas: We'll go

0:07:22 Lydia: Yeah. I feel like it's a little bit of a cop out, but whatever.

0:07:25 Thomas: With that, I guess. And then it turned out Trump was trying to make it like he was trying to like artistic direct essentially. And so then everybody started dropping out, except one douche.

0:07:37 Lydia: Two, two actually.

0:07:38 Thomas: Well, a couple, yeah, two.

0:07:39 Lydia: So literally there are two left, Flo Rida and Vanilla Ice.

0:07:43 Thomas: And this man, let's hear what he has to say.

0:07:45 Matt: Flo Rida.

0:07:45 Clip: Robert Van Winkle, better known as Vanilla Ice, says he will still light up the stage and wax a chump like a candle at the Freedom 250's 16 -day event that spans from June 25th through July 11th.

0:07:47 Thomas: Robert Van Winkle?

0:07:48 Lydia: I've

0:07:52 Matt: There you go.

0:07:55 Thomas: 16 -day event.

0:07:57 Clip: It's simple as a pimple for me. There's nothing to it. It's the birthday of America. 250 years. It's not anything to do with politics. I don't know why they're turning it into politics. I'm not even, I've never voted in my life. I never do that.

0:08:00 Thomas: He's still dropping amazing rhymes. Sure. I believe you. Wait, why did it cut off?

0:08:13 Lydia: Never voted in my life. Oh, because because then she interrupts and we'll get to the rest of it.

0:08:18 Thomas: So we're going to... I

0:08:18 Matt: They actually, during this, there's like a six minute clip and they sprinkle in vanilla ice, like a little topping all the way through because they know it's too good.

0:08:24 Thomas: Know, No, I wish we just had the good, glorious...

0:08:25 Lydia: Yeah I just wanted.

0:08:26 Matt: Yeah, I know. Into my veins.

0:08:27 Lydia: Straight through.

0:08:28 Clip: When I play events, I never ask about them. I just go, where am I going? I don't even know, and I don't even care because I have fans and they have booked me to play a show like a musician. And you have performed at events related to our current president before. I believe you performed at Mar-a-Lago on New Year's Eve at a presidential event. Do you think that you can separate art from from politics?

0:08:37 Thomas: So good you don't have fans there's

0:08:53 Clip: Heck yeah, man. They should never be in there. Are you kidding me? I think every musician, there's no politics in music.

0:08:53 Thomas: No art so there's no art

0:09:00 Clip: There's no rules. I mean, you know, it's just, you should do whatever you feel like doing and express yourself.

0:09:01 Thomas: Either there's nothing you just don't do anything I guess there'sno rules

0:09:05 Clip: That's what music is. If the Democratic National Convention or Gavin Newsom or Josh Shapiro,

0:09:06 Thomas: Why does he have a gun wielding thing

0:09:07 Matt: Not politically. Angel, cured cherub.

0:09:11 Thomas: On his hat none

0:09:11 Clip: Andy Beshear asked you to perform, what would your answer be? Let's go, man! You think I don't have fans over at Kamala or Biden's family? I know I do you think I don't know that they got kids and families and cousins and nephews. They're Vanilla Ice fans Everywhere.

0:09:26 Thomas: Of them are fans of you no there aren't it'sso

0:09:28 Clip: I go play for anybody Putin whoever you want. How go to Iran? Don't matter. Wait, would you are you gonna perform you say you would perform for the supreme leader? Oh I will go to like Dennis Rodman plays basketball over for anybody if you got to understand music has has no you cannot pick your fans they pick you so you know you're just an entertainer don't ever try to think you're anything beyond that let's

0:09:34 Thomas: Good yeah yeah fair enough I don't know

0:09:57 Matt: You can pick your events

0:09:58 Lydia: If you're vanilla ice, I think like I get that from his perspective, I guess, but it's

0:09:59 Matt: Though.

0:10:00 Thomas: I know I love this because I you can't be mad honestly I'm not even mad like it's he's so pathetic that it's just like he's like yeah man nobody wants to hear me anymore of course I will go where any single soul says they might want to hear my music I

0:10:08 Matt: Professional douche.

0:10:06 Lydia: Just funny. I don't even ask where I'm going, what I'm doing. I just show up.

0:10:18 Thomas: Know it was so great because it all comes across like do you have a show coming up I could play your do you have like a niece with a birthday or anything because I could go I'm I'm available is what what I'm saying yeah

0:10:30 Matt: Cash, jewels, money order, whatever. I got it. Yeah let's take it.

0:10:32 Lydia: Man. He's so funny.

0:10:34 Matt: Anything less than the best is a felony, as the man said. That is a rule of law from Vanilla ice uh so yeah that's that's the man I I we'll see about Flo Rida maybe the pressure will continue but what do they have like 15 days of this plant is it all going to be vanilla ice just straight through oh

0:10:47 Thomas: I I just want to share my favorite meme I've ever seen in my life which anyone who saw sinners will get you all performing at the freedom 250 sir just make sure you've seen the perfection of this meme it's like so so perfect because uh god the literal like villain vampire devil guy of the movie because he uh in the movie the alien is if he has y 'all clan and he says, sir, you know, like he's so good. God, that movie ruled. Anyway, I feel like it kind of should have won. It didn't, right? I feel Like Something Else won. Yeah.

0:10:52 Matt: I saw this that's great yeah perfect screen caps yeah I agree

0:11:20 Lydia: One battle after another.

0:11:22 Thomas: Bone Battle of a Man. I kind of feel like Sinner should have one. I don't know. It's close, man. What a good movie that was, but it's such a perfect meme. Just the collective comedic genius of the internet. Now it's like you can get just the best possible meme for any situation.

0:11:25 Matt: Straight up

0:11:33 Lydia: I know. The one good thing about the internet. The

0:11:39 Thomas: Yep. That's it. That That's the one thing. But that interview, like Lydia pulled it up and we were just kind of watching the clips. It's just so funny how much. Yeah, I'll do whatever. It shouldn't be just anything. Just I'll go anywhere, anytime, anyplace.

0:11:40 Lydia: Memes. Yeah.

0:11:52 Thomas: No one cares. Whatever. There's no rules.

0:11:52 Lydia: Yeah, I've never voted in my life.

0:11:55 Thomas: I've never voted. It's Just Like Perfect Vanilla Ice, like being vanilla ice. I was surprised that Matt didn't tag in the bum, bum, bun, but a done a done, done, done, video after that. But we could have. All right. Well, that's a perfect amuse. Amused. I think that's a textbook amused douche. If you go in the dictionary and look up amused douche, that's right up there.

0:12:11 Matt: Oh yeah that

0:12:16 Lydia: It was douchey. It was bite -sized.

0:12:16 Matt: That was a that was douche and I'm amused so here we are I'm

0:12:19 Lydia: I'm amused.

0:12:19 Thomas: I am very amused, uh, well, what, uh that, that, having done that fun amusedouche, what do we have next on deck here?

0:12:27 Matt: Gonna argue this is also pretty amusing. And very douchey. So we're doing this one today on purpose because, first of all, we love talking about Samuel Alito, of course, one of our greatest subjects. We can go back to OA 1034 two years ago to hear the full rundown on why Alito was like this after the Flag scandal, which I'm sure we'll get to as we talk about him here. But this is an excerpt from Molly Hemingway's recent book. Of course, she's the editor of of The Federalist, and this book is entitled, hold on, I'm going to make sure I get that as a title.

0:12:29 Lydia: And also douche -y.

0:12:59 Thomas: Is. I agree. It's one of those entitled ones.

0:13:03 Matt: Yeah, I just want to be sure I had it because the title is so ridiculous. Alito the Justice Who Reshaped the Supreme Court and Restored the Constitution. He may have reshaped The Supreme Court. I may give him that possibly.

0:13:13 Thomas: Did not restore the constitution.

0:13:15 Matt: No restoration. Yeah. The other way.

0:13:17 Thomas: I like that it's, I feel it's appropriate that this article, Sam Alito is the most courageous, like, I know it's quoting the, yeah, it should be air quotes.

0:13:23 Lydia: Air quotes.

0:13:27 Matt: Yeah, I like how she gets to call him Sam because she wrote the book. So yeah, very, very familiar.

0:13:30 Thomas: Yeah, Sam, Samalito, yeah. Oh,

0:13:31 Lydia: They're buddies.

0:13:33 Matt: But this is a good time to announce that I'm planning to have our first ever opening arguments book club, where we will be reading this book, which again, I'm not endorsing the book, and in fact, you can listen to it for free on Spotify. If you have a Spotify account, I would strongly recommend you do that rather than paying Molly Hemingway for it. If Molly Heming way wants to come on and talk about the book I'm opening to have her do that. I don't know I mean it's it's potentially but we're just going to talk about it and then we're going to make fun of it and we're gonna talk to our patrons about it so if you want to get on that

0:13:55 Thomas: I don't think, yeah... So it's less a book club and more of a, like a lot awful books club, kind of.

0:14:02 Matt: A lot of a book club that is what this is uh in the future I want to read good law books but yeah

0:14:03 Thomas: We'll see, yeah?

0:14:05 Lydia: For the for exactly exactly. I think it'll be a mix as we go through but I know know matt's been really excited about it I'm really excited to have it announced finally and we've been talking about it for a bit so this will be a fun first one

0:14:15 Matt: I I get to read a lot of books all the time for this show and I would like to talk to some people about them um as much as I enjoy talking to the two of you about them you know there's other people out there too might want to talk about them

0:14:24 Thomas: Well, how can people be a part of the book club?

0:14:27 Matt: That's a great question

0:14:27 Lydia: You got to go to patreon.com/law it's going to be open to all patrons and then we'll have some more news there about um the logistics and everything and and how that'll be set up um yeah

0:14:38 Thomas: And I'm gonna go and try to sound like I read the book, even though I didn't it was man this this first of all sam alito you know this guy this guy man just chapter one chapter two chapter three

0:14:40 Lydia: Is there still. Yeah.

0:14:52 Matt: Can you believe the photo they used on the cover yeah there

0:14:54 Thomas: Man

0:14:54 Lydia: Is there a chapter about flags, you think, in this book?

0:14:57 Thomas: There

0:14:56 Matt: Is a chapter called false flags uh I'm just getting to it now yeah yeah

0:14:57 Thomas: Should be yeah false flags oh man that's gonna be fantastic we

0:15:02 Matt: This is I read a lot of supreme court biographies that's why I want to start with this one and this is not a supreme court biography this is a supreme court hagiography this is st alito is what we're going to be reading about yeah so you get a little taste of the book here this is an adapted version of part of the work I recognize part of it for for having gotten through a few chapters now.

0:15:11 Lydia: Propaganda. Supreme Court propaganda.

0:15:19 Thomas: Get it you read books matt

0:15:20 Matt: Now you're all coming with me. All right, let's do it.

0:15:24 Thomas: I'm not but yeah other people will

0:15:24 Lydia: All right. Justice Samuel Alito marks his 20th year on the Supreme Court, a milestone that coincides with the release of my new book this month, Alito, the Justice Who reshape the Supreme Court and restore the Constitution.

0:15:32 Thomas: Feels like so much longer so much longer it's

0:15:42 Lydia: The time...

0:15:41 Matt: I like that he timed his 20th year. He timed his 28th year so your book could come out.

0:15:42 Thomas: Such a weird what yeah it's just a weird way to say that a milestone that coincide just happens to coincide

0:15:48 Matt: That's what she's saying.

0:15:51 Lydia: Yeah. The timing feels right. Or you planned it. I don't know. America needs reminding of what a real judge looks like in an era when the court faces relentless attacks from those who prefer activist robes to actual jurisprudence.

0:16:05 Thomas: Activist robes I

0:16:06 Matt: Actual jurisprudence. That is what I think of when I think of Samuel A. Alito.

0:16:10 Lydia: That's rich.

0:16:11 Matt: Nothing but, yeah.

0:16:11 Thomas: Don't really know if the robes are the part that's activist though I don' t really get it a real judge is a whiny little piece of shit who's constantly has a chip on his shoulder about Fox News bullshit shit oh yeah it sounds like that as he's whining about the thing as he controls the fate of our fucking country and still whines like he's so imposed upon all the time

0:16:15 Lydia: It's the body inside of the rope. Yeah yep yep insane

0:16:32 Matt: I mean, he's doing Fox News editorials in a lot of his decisions and dissents now. I means, that's just straight up editorials. So I don't really call that actual jurisprudence, but maybe in 2026, we live in hell. Who knows?

0:16:43 Thomas: There's

0:16:38 Lydia: Alito embodies the quiet courage that has delivered some of

0:16:47 Thomas: Nothing quiet about this fucker are you kidding me quiet courage oh

0:16:51 Matt: Hear me out. This is the thesis of the book and of this piece, is that he is the most humble man on earth, a quiet warrior for justice.

0:16:57 Thomas: My fuck are you fucking kidding me he is the least humble justice maybe I mean that's actually tough it's he's in the top three three. He's in the top three of Gorsuch, him, and Thomas. Those are the three most arrogant pricks, I think. Personally, that's my opinion. How would you rank him, Matt?

0:16:58 Lydia: That's crazy I

0:17:00 Matt: That's fine to read it. Yes, and we will prove that.

0:17:09 Lydia: Don't know how you'd pick interesting yeah no

0:17:18 Thomas: Most arrogant justice, the least arrogant.

0:17:20 Matt: I mean, honestly, my boy Bill Douglas was pretty arrogant, and got to be honest, just go current. I'm just saying, I started thinking historical immediately, yes.

0:17:24 Thomas: Current, current.

0:17:28 Matt: In terms of people on the bench right now. Yeah, I think he has to be. Well, I love Gorsuch.

0:17:24 Lydia: Current I

0:17:28 Thomas: He is in the three. Top three. Do you think he's top? Yeah, Gorsuche is pretty

0:17:34 Lydia: Think I think gorsuch I

0:17:35 Matt: I think Alito's worse.

0:17:36 Thomas: Bad. Yeah, you'd have to really, we'd have to really get textual about how we're defining.

0:17:43 Lydia: I think gorsich is like like he's always going to say well I'm not strictly on this I think he thinks very highly of himself because he like is moves around a bit

0:17:50 Thomas: I think he's more arrogant, honestly. I think Alito's arrogant and lacks self -confidence in a way that makes him even more insufferable.

0:17:59 Matt: He's more petty, I think. Definitely more petty.

0:18:01 Thomas: Yeah more petty.

0:18:02 Matt: The Bostock dissent where he goes on and on about why Gorsich is wrong and calls him a fake textualist and all this, yeah, he loves picking on the other justices.

0:18:07 Thomas: Yeah and when you can get the top two pieces of shit mad at each other that's when you really just sit back and enjoy, you know.

0:18:16 Matt: Let them fight. Okay.

0:18:18 Lydia: You just watch alito embodies the quiet courage that has delivered some of the most important victories for constitutional liberty in generations no

0:18:27 Matt: So the quiet courage to, when you find out, just let me remind everybody. Yeah, sorry. Go ahead.

0:18:31 Thomas: What? What, how would you think of those two words? Like if you, if I give me a million years to think of words, even if I was trying to write a positive thing about Alito, quiet is nowhere in those and courage. No.

0:18:44 Matt: He has the courage to live in a bubble. But the courage when ProPublica calls you for comment and says, we're about to publish a story about how in 2008, you took $100 ,000 worth of free travel from a billionaire who you later ruled in favor of. He has the quiet courage to go straight to the Wall Street Journal before answering ProPublica's questions after saying he will have no comment for ProPubblica and writing a whining editorial.

0:19:03 Thomas: Yeah, that's right. I remember now.

0:19:06 Matt: Very quiet, very courageous.

0:19:07 Thomas: And he did it, but he did a very quietly.

0:19:08 Matt: Yes. He didn't tell anybody. But it is quite a piece, this Wall Street journal editorial, justifying himself.

0:19:04 Lydia: And wine yeah yeah yeah

0:19:13 Thomas: Man. Are we switching to that or no?

0:19:18 Matt: We'll take a quick look at it, just remind everybody, because it is worth pulling up again. This is from a few years ago in case you've forgotten. And as I said, Paul Singer is the billionaire in question here. ProPublica actually, to their full credit, ran a response and said basically what they wish the Wall Street Journal would have asked him before they allowed him to publish this, which I thought was pretty good. But yeah, I

0:19:38 Lydia: Justice samuel alito pro publica misleads its readers the publication levels false charges about supreme court recusal financial disclosures and a 2008 fishing trip.

0:19:43 Thomas: Sorry. Yeah oh

0:19:43 Matt: Think if you go down, there's this long thing about your recusal, about who had no duty to recuse and who could have possibly known about this case, even though it was really big in the news. And I think a little further down.

0:19:51 Thomas: That's all sure

0:20:00 Matt: But this is using the full power and privilege of your office to run to the Wall Street Journal immediately to undercut the story before it comes out. Oh, and then he's pretending. That's right. I remember this too. Remember he pretended that he didn't think that jet travel counted as a gift, as hospitality?

0:19:59 Thomas: Yeah oh yeah there was some sort of like loophole

0:20:20 Matt: Thomas is using this.

0:20:19 Lydia: Things were

0:20:20 Thomas: They did they used some loophole for that didn't they yeah

0:20:20 Lydia: A mess in terms of financial disclosures. Yeah.

0:20:23 Matt: Not a real one. I don't think it was. But they tightened it up just to make sure this didn't happen again. But it did not pass the laugh test. The idea that you would think you wouldn't have to report this massive free trip on

0:20:25 Thomas: Obviously it was bad faith but yeah what

0:20:35 Lydia: For the flight, Mr. Singer and others had already made arrangements to fly to Alaska when I was invited shortly before the event, and I was asked whether I would like to fly there in a seat that, as far as I'm aware, would have otherwise been vacant. It was my understanding that this would not impose any extra costs on Mr. Finger. Had I taken commercial flights, that would have imposed a substantial cost and inconvenience on the deputy U .S. marshals who would have been required for security reasons to assist me.

0:20:48 Matt: Of our favorites. And then there's nothing else. He's an associate justice. There's no ending to this. He just walks away from the keyboard and sends it, I guess. Deadline was up.

0:21:07 Thomas: Guys, I didn't, he was actually trying to save us money he wanted to save the U .S. taxpayer

0:21:14 Matt: And it would have been vacant. That poor seat would have had no one to sit in it all alone.

0:21:17 Thomas: One would have sat there no one was even using it

0:21:18 Lydia: I'm sorry. In the paragraph before, he says, he's trying to like downplay the accommodations, right? I stayed for three nights in a modest one -room unit at the King Salmon Lodge, which was a comfortable but rustic facility. As I recall, the meals were home -style fare, not Michelin, you know?

0:21:25 Matt: That's right. Homestyle French cooking or something. Yeah. Yeah sure. Of course.

0:21:37 Lydia: Okay, like that matters. We were served wine, but if not wine that costs $1 ,000.

0:21:40 Matt: Yeah. I didn't pay for it. I don't know.

0:21:47 Lydia: This guy.

0:21:47 Matt: Who knows how much it cost? Yeah. Anyway, it gives you the idea. We Just to profile in quiet courage.

0:21:50 Thomas: Sucks quiet courage yeah

0:21:53 Lydia: Since one of Alito's colleagues was nearly assassinated by a deranged gunman who turned up at his house, life hasn't been easy for conservative Supreme Court justices. Who was nearly assassination? Nearly assassinated? Isn't that a little...

0:22:03 Thomas: Who is that there's

0:22:07 Matt: Feel like, was there a Kavanaugh sighting? I think there was.

0:22:09 Thomas: Somebody near Kavanaugh but I don't yeah

0:22:11 Matt: Yeah, there was an arrest outside of Kavanaagh's house.

0:22:11 Lydia: But it wasn't a near assassination. Like,

0:22:14 Matt: I think the guy had a gun.

0:22:14 Lydia: They caught it

0:22:14 Thomas: I don'T remember I actually don't know what this is talking about nearly

0:22:15 Lydia: Pretty early, I thought. Oh,

0:22:17 Matt: He was charged. Nicholas John I'll just double check that. But he actually called himself in. So this is not especially dangerous. He called the Emergency Communications Center and said he was having suicidal thoughts and he had a firearm. He told the call taker he came from California to kill a specific U .S. Supreme Court justice. So he was arrested with that incident. So again, it's unfortunate, but I didn't really get too far. Not nearly assassinated.

0:22:22 Thomas: Assassinated well

0:22:41 Lydia: The language here is ridiculous.

0:22:43 Thomas: Not only that it's like we have an example that's way worse but it says a left more of a left judge, you know, who's, what is it, kid was killed or husband was killed?

0:22:52 Matt: Terrible.

0:22:52 Thomas: What was that? It was awful. And, but no, you have to use the one time a gunman was arrested somewhat near a conservative's house to make it seem like it's uniquely, like, it hasn't been, literally the sentence is, life hasn't be easy for conservative Supreme Courts. Like uniquely?

0:22:59 Lydia: After he called himself in saying that he was going to. Yeah. Yeah, but back when conservative justices could still be seen in public without being attacked by left wing activists, Alito and his wife attempted to get brunch in New Haven, Connecticut, turned away because of a long line. Mind, they walked away and went down the street. An eyewitness called it, quote, a very graceful moment, noting he could have invoked his status.

0:23:27 Matt: What is this story? He only invokes his status with the billionaires.

0:23:30 Lydia: Molly, what are

0:23:30 Thomas: We went, we went to a place to eat and the line was long, so we're like, meh. Wow.

0:23:30 Lydia: You writing? Let's go find somewhere

0:23:36 Thomas: What a, what a humble saint of a man what a oh I'm

0:23:36 Lydia: Else. Yeah. And he did it quietly.

0:23:42 Thomas: In awe he didn't even write an op -ed about no losing

0:23:44 Lydia: This is vintage Alito. When he attends functions in Washington, a city of inflated egos, he can be found in the corner quietly talking to a few people and making them feel comfortable. If someone else starts talking, he stops. He does not get energy from holding a glass of wine and having people pay homage to him, but from reading law review articles.

0:23:56 Thomas: His religion jesus

0:24:07 Lydia: His humility can be a problem, too. There is a tradition that Supreme Court police stand every time a justice walks by. Alito's copy machine used to be in the hallway outside his chambers. Rather than asking his aides, he would make his own copies, until the Supreme Court police asked his staff to make the copies so that they wouldn't have to stand while he performed the routine task.

0:24:05 Thomas: Christ sure sure can't wow what a saint this is

0:24:28 Matt: The guy who went out of his way to throw his wife under the bus for the flag thing. Makes his own copies. It's fine.

0:24:33 Thomas: This is the best you can do like if you're trying to find stories about someone and this is the the best you could do I'd be like never mind I guess we can't do this because it's one time a line was too long so he left and also he was using the copier but now he just has his staff do it how

0:24:36 Matt: Literally. Sometimes he uses the copier.

0:24:37 Lydia: What? Oh. Is Matt, do you know if this book is published through like one of the conservative publishing houses or like, I'm assuming it's not self-published because it's Not Like Molly Hemingway is a Nobody, but yeah,

0:24:59 Matt: It is. Yeah. She's a name for what it's worth. Let me double check while we're talking. I can give you that information.

0:25:04 Lydia: I can continue reading. There is no question justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas have been the fan fan favorites of many conservative court watchers. But for a certain type of conservative, Alito's valiant cheering for a better, previous version of America, even if it's a losing prospect, is deeply attractive.

0:25:19 Thomas: Is it you control everything you fucking clowns even if it's a losing prospect you're in charge of everything you've done it god oh

0:25:27 Lydia: Whiny babies.

0:25:29 Matt: The answer is pretty good. I'm glad you asked, Lydia, to that question. Hachette Books, obviously a very big book publisher, had a number of employees quit a couple of years ago when they launched the imprint that this is on, Basic Liberty, it's called. Guess who was helming Basic Liberty? A guy from the Heritage Foundation who ran Project 2025.

0:25:50 Matt: Published by basically an offshoot of Project 2025, it is not too hard to connect those dots. Here you go.

0:25:54 Thomas: My awesome

0:25:55 Lydia: Just to make sure that they can get their propaganda out there. Yeah for

0:25:56 Thomas: And you're gonna read this piece piece of shit, Matt.

0:26:00 Matt: On purpose, yeah.

0:26:00 Lydia: Free.

0:26:02 Matt: Make other people do it too.

0:26:03 Lydia: Yeah social Social critic Albert J. Nock recounted how God sent Isaiah to preach repentance, but warned him, quote, it won't do any good.

0:26:12 Matt: This is my my favorite part. The humility of a biblical prophet. The man is sent from God to preach to the people. Just a humble man talking

0:26:21 Thomas: What are you

0:26:13 Lydia: When Isaiah, yeah, when Isaiah asked what the point was, he was told, quote. There is a remnant here that you know nothing about. They need to be encouraged and braced up because when everything has gone completely to the dogs, they are the ones who will come back and build up a new society. It's a good description of Alito's role.

0:26:37 Thomas: Talking about?

0:26:39 Matt: To the remnant.

0:26:40 Thomas: It's like they wrote this back when Alito, it was just Alito and Thomas dissenting on everything. That would, that would have kind of made sense where you're like, oh, he's just, you know, he doesn't get his way, but he's put for the, for the, For the ages, for history, he is writing his dissents. He controls everything now was

0:26:45 Lydia: And they were alone. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:26:56 Matt: I just want to point out, of course, that the reason that Isaiah was being sent out into a desolate world in chapter 6, and I know too much about these things sometimes.

0:27:04 Thomas: Because the corporate tax rate was too high.

0:27:06 Matt: No, it turns out they'd turned away from the poor and the widowed and the elderly, and the people had become desolate. Also, my favorite line in that. I actually read about this chapter elsewhere on my blog a while back. But there's a great phrase in there where he talks about how they have removed men far away. And it just sounds a lot like deportations to me. I can't help but think about it as an indictment.

0:27:26 Thomas: Interesting. Oh. You're talking about that book where every single message is against what the conservatives think it is right now.

0:27:31 Lydia: Everything that they're doing. Mm -hmm. Yeah.

0:27:33 Matt: That one. Yeah.

0:27:35 Lydia: He represents the best of mid -20th century America, a country that is disappearing. He laments how wealthy elites have never had to deal with urban dystopias that have affected middle and lower class Americans.

0:27:42 Thomas: Man. What, when does he do that?

0:27:48 Matt: They've never lived in cities before?

0:27:51 Lydia: Yeah.

0:27:51 Matt: Urban elites have never lived in cities.

0:27:54 Lydia: Isn't he a wealthy elite?

0:27:56 Thomas: What has he done for middle and lower class America? I don't even, Oh, Oh. Okay. Let's see. Criminal prosecutions.

0:27:58 Matt: Well, that doesn't count. Yeah.

0:28:04 Lydia: He takes criminal prosecutions more seriously than his colleagues.

0:28:06 Matt: With one notable fucking exception. Yeah just just to make that point.

0:28:13 Lydia: Dear leader.

0:28:14 Matt: One guy that doesn't need to be prosecuted at all, ever.

0:28:15 Thomas: Shut

0:28:16 Lydia: He is stalwart. Yeah. He has stalwart in his defense of a moral code that until recently was universally recognized in America.

0:28:24 Thomas: Up god it

0:28:25 Matt: Until recently, universally recognized. We all had the same moral code, until now.

0:28:28 Thomas: Wasn't there's never a time when that's been true if like everyone should feel a painful cringe anytime they're about to say well you know back in my day we used to like some things might be casually true like some observations about changes in technology and whatever but if you're going to say like well we used have morals and we used to all agree on them no that never happened god idiots well

0:28:31 Matt: It's incredible. I mean, the best music in the world was recorded between 1990 and 2000, but otherwise, yes, I'm with you.

0:28:58 Thomas: That's wrong but that's okay some peeps see we have different moral values matt likes some music that's kind of good I you know I think the best music was from 1965 to 1970 personally yeah

0:29:10 Matt: Heresy. Heresy, wow.

0:29:12 Lydia: And I like all music at all times. Moralism. Quote, you get the sense with other justices that they think the country is going to get better because the court is issuing decisions that are good and they have a great job.

0:29:15 Matt: What does that mean?

0:29:27 Thomas: I really love, this is going to be contrasted with, let's see, okay, sure,

0:29:28 Lydia: Wait, wait, let me attribute this quote first. One highly placed court observer told me. Who's that? Don't know. Quote.

0:29:35 Thomas: I like this,

0:29:35 Matt: But what is this quote that, like, he likes decisions that are bad and he's doing a bad job.

0:29:38 Thomas: Contrast this, yeah, yeah yeah, hold on, let us see, what is the contrast then,

0:29:45 Lydia: Quot, Alito recognizes that even if the court is doing great things, it's much harder, if not impossible, to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

0:29:52 Thomas: Oh that is so good, you get the sense of the other justice, they think the country is going to get better because the court is issuing decisions that are good and they have a great job, but Alito, this fits because Alito is a miserable ass all the time, even though he's in control he has a great job he's do whatever the fuck he wants um but he's still miserable the poor guy but but instead of just being a miserable fuck he's being portrayed as just that's current it's quiet courage it's quite courage

0:30:00 Matt: They think they can make the country better, those suckers.

0:30:09 Lydia: Had a great job for a long time. They can afford as many flags as they want. Yeah yep and

0:30:12 Matt: You know, I got to say the Isaiah thing actually isn't too far off in that case because basically what she's saying here is that he thinks we're screwed and there's no point in trying to make the world better. And Isaiah was sent out to preach to people who already had their eyes closed and their ears closed. So that was kind of the point. It was like he was a pointless prophet and he was told that his entire career of preaching was going to to be pointless so you know maybe maybe in this logic yeah weird stuff so does samuel luto yeah I

0:30:29 Lydia: Isaiah was like what's the point he works in mysterious ways thomas

0:30:38 Thomas: Was weird god did weird stuff can we say that it's just weird decisions yeah I think he was just a prankster mainly he's just like all right here's what we're gonna do your whole job yeah you're on candid god camera your whole job is gonna be preaching I made it so no preaching is possibly gonna work have fun

0:30:47 Lydia: The original prank show it's ashton kutcher punked but you have to do it because I'm god

0:31:01 Thomas: Also I'm in charge of everything and if you don't do what I want I'll kill you and you'll be horrible yeah that is

0:31:05 Lydia: You'll burn for all eternity. Yes.

0:31:08 Matt: Mean the story of abraham normal killing his son is like the original candid camera but yeah if

0:31:12 Thomas: Of all the pranks that's the biggest the best prank yeah yeah he totally got him I will say god totally got abraham or whatever through that one he

0:31:14 Lydia: That's true. Psych.

0:31:14 Matt: You want to go real dark jk yeah

0:31:24 Lydia: Yeah. Needed therapy for the rest of his life.

0:31:26 Thomas: Was gonna do it too he was gonna do it oh

0:31:29 Lydia: That's not to say that he takes losses, and we're talking about Alito now, not about Abraham or God or anything right now. He takes losses well or hides his feelings.

0:31:37 Thomas: Now hold on let's go to that sentence how does that go with the rest of the theme that's not to say that he takes losses well or hides his feelings really the quiet courage even

0:31:45 Lydia: Quiet courage. Which one is it?

0:31:47 Matt: He's a sore loser and he whines a lot but not

0:31:48 Thomas: This propagandist has to accidentally say and you know he is a whiny little baby man with a diaper but yeah

0:31:57 Lydia: He's not a melancholy warrior, but not exactly a happy one either. He cares deeply about the law and getting the big issues correct, and he is affected by what the court does. No, he's not. He is an old white man.

0:32:05 Thomas: I could fox news only in

0:32:10 Lydia: He isn't affected by what he does. Does.

0:32:11 Thomas: The dumbest possible way yeah only in them my feelings are hurt when they don't do exactly what I want.

0:32:15 Lydia: A neighbor got mad at my wife. That's what he's affected by.

0:32:16 Matt: I'm affected personally right exactly it's

0:32:19 Thomas: I like, yeah, he, only this asshole could be like, well, the court is taking away reproductive health for all of America. How does that affect me?

0:32:21 Lydia: Stupid.

0:32:29 Thomas: Do I feel good or bad about that? I'm the one who's affected.

0:32:28 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Narcissist. Clerks can tell how a conference has gone from his facial expressions and body language. At the end of each Supreme Court term, clerks from all the chambers organize and perform a variety show what one year I want to do that

0:32:47 Matt: A party yeah

0:32:42 Thomas: What? Matt, what is the Supreme Court? Yeah. They have basketball too, right? Man, I want to join.

0:32:50 Matt: Sure yeah Yeah. Good times.

0:32:52 Thomas: Can anyone join up or how do you get in there that's

0:32:52 Lydia: One year they made fun of alito's inability to hide his emotions by portraying him in the world series of poker when he was dealt a good hand he would beam and everyone would fold there's

0:33:05 Thomas: Kind of funny yeah

0:33:06 Matt: That's about the extent of how much you can make fun of your boss at the variety show. Yes. Correct.

0:33:09 Lydia: Also yeah nothing quiet about that either if you can completely read what somebody's thinking based off of their facial expression then

0:33:13 Thomas: The whole literally no one including this author thinks he's a quiet courageous type that was a made -up thing then then as they started writing they're like I hopefully people will forget that's what I said a few paragraphs ago

0:33:25 Lydia: Wait.

0:33:25 Matt: I'm sorry. Have you not been hearing these anecdotes?

0:33:30 Lydia: I think

0:33:32 Thomas: Right well we'll take a break from hearing about how fucking amazing and quietly courageous outrageous alito is to thank our hall of famers we got to thank our second third uh these folks are just too amazing thank you to nick fish vincent laguardia gambini attorney at law a negative phenomenon beers beats battlestar galactica classic office line you gotta fight for your right to ex parte jay sank david suther vehicular man's laughter inviting all wokies to next Next year's Codenames Extravaganza. Hold on. Is there a that?

0:34:06 Lydia: Wait, is vehicular man's laughter hosting it?

0:34:09 Thomas: Or is he saying we are?

0:34:09 Lydia: Because or I think maybe he's saying we are and I need to get on that. Yeah, okay.

0:34:13 Thomas: I mean, that could work. Just saying we're doing something, that might work. You might convince us. I do love Codename.

0:34:19 Lydia: Honestly, it might end up on the to do list.

0:34:22 Thomas: Rating the good stuff from the clearly unattended Philly basement bar. That's awesome. Okay, I love the patrons. Yeah, good timing. Uh, Two -Taint Todd and the Grundle Gang.

0:34:28 Lydia: Smart thinking yeah oh my god give me the taints

0:34:39 Thomas: Uh, two -taint Todd. Today's episode is brought to you by the letter something. Cavalry, Thomas Freeman, Cajun Killa, Fraud Fishy Hates Everything, Chris Simpson, Missing Knowledge Fight, Anonymous Akila, and Mark Schultz. Ah, so good. Patreon .com slash law, Hall of Fame level and above. We love the folks who change their names. We love folks who keep their names the same. They're both great in different ways. All right, we'll take another break and then we'll get back to the quiet hero. You never hear him talk. I can't even think of what he sounds like because I've never heard him talk, Alito.

0:35:10 Thomas: He's always just so quiet. Get back to that after this.

0:35:09 Lydia: Never never know what he's thinking alito

0:35:14 Thomas: Right. Let's see what other examples of the thesis statement we have here.

0:35:20 Lydia: Likes to tease people and his sense of humor is so dry and subtle that sometimes clerks have not known if he was joking or not or he's really bad at telling jokes. I mean, that's also another option.

0:35:31 Thomas: Yeah, let's see.

0:35:32 Lydia: One year, he took them to see a Magna Carta exhibit, which included the Jay -Z rap album, Magna Karta Holy Grail. The justice looked at the docent and asked completely deadpan, quote, what is a rapper? He let the question sit for five seconds before cracking a smile.

0:35:46 Thomas: Dear God.

0:35:47 Lydia: What?

0:35:47 Matt: Nobody would ever believe that an old white man doesn't know what a rapper is.

0:35:50 Thomas: Dear God, this is not funny in any way. It's not.

0:35:50 Lydia: That's not, that'S not a joke. What's the, what's the joke?

0:35:56 Matt: It's just,

0:35:56 Thomas: That's incredible. Again, you're writing a book on someone and you're like, this is the best I got. I don't know.

0:36:01 Matt: This is the funniest thing he's ever said in his life. Here it is. Eat it up, hogs.

0:36:06 Thomas: You, that like when you're riding a book, you're not writing a propaganda book about someone. You probably do want to not only include the best things he's ever said in his life, probably exaggerate them a little bit. And this is all we get. Okay.

0:36:14 Matt: Not even an everybody left.

0:36:18 Thomas: Yeah, it doesn't even, doesn't even say everybody laughed yeah it's just like he cracked a smile everyone remained bewildered and moved on as though nothing had happened fine

0:36:20 Lydia: Just that he didn't even laugh. He just cracked a smile. Yeah, yeah, because nothing happened. His clerk's one -year assistance from top law schools revere him in part for how accommodating he is of them and their families. One clerk's young daughter made a bracelet for him out of pipe cleaner and beads. Months later, when the family visited his chambers, he emerged from his office wearing the bracelet, not mentioning it, but giving the little girl the delight of discovering her gift on his wrist.

0:36:50 Matt: He's a boss. That's nice.

0:36:51 Lydia: That's like a nice grandpa move too, right? Like that is a perfectly fine thing to do for kids.

0:36:53 Matt: And we don't think he's an actual monster. He's just a jerk. Well, I mean, he is a person. I can concede that.

0:36:58 Thomas: I do but yeah yeah he's a monsters are people well

0:37:05 Lydia: His clerks joke about how little he needs them. Quote, Justice Alito needs clerks like a mother needs a toddler to help bake cookies.

0:37:12 Thomas: When you're just making shit up yeah I don't I don't want other people's idea like if I'm just gonna you know spitball on my own brain and make up the law I don't need other people putting input into that that's

0:37:14 Lydia: He doesn't need you there, but it is fun to lick the spoon, joked one.

0:37:26 Matt: Imagine telling people my job is to lick Justice Alito's spoons. That is what I do.

0:37:31 Lydia: Disgusting.

0:37:32 Matt: I get the analogy, but yeah, yeah, that's

0:37:32 Thomas: The worst image I hate that so much uh

0:37:36 Lydia: Alito is an improbable justice. Unlike so many people in power, he arrived at his position solely because of his intellect and hard work. He is not a politician or glad hander. His personality and way of life are shockingly normal. His public schools, liberal college, and liberal law school did not weaken his convictions. He does not care what people think of him, and indeed, he's

0:37:58 Thomas: Yeah he doesn't care what people think shut the fuck up he doesn'T care what people that's why he writes op -eds in offensively like ahead of time to get ahead of it yeah

0:38:03 Lydia: Very sensitive. Yeah.

0:38:08 Matt: I mean, he came from a working class background, but so did Sotomayor and quite a few of the others. And also, he did exactly what you do to get on the Supreme Court. So I'm not really sure he went straight through and just

0:38:17 Thomas: You be a conservative originalist that's all yeah

0:38:21 Matt: Work your way up the judicial chain until Bush appoints him.

0:38:23 Lydia: And wait for a GOP, yeah,

0:38:25 Matt: That's how it goes.

0:38:25 Lydia: President to appoint you.

0:38:26 Thomas: And being an originalist is the dei that they They think it is for, you know, it's so much harder to get on the Supreme Court as, you know, a sane thinking person than it is to just declare your allegiance to this idiotic, you know way of thinking and then all of a sudden you're you're the job pool is limited down to people who are shameless enough to do that. No,

0:38:47 Lydia: And indeed the most common word his fellow justices use to describe him is quote, courageous. I would like to see the survey on that.

0:38:54 Thomas: There's no possible way. That's true.

0:38:54 Matt: All of them? Yeah, the word cloud when you ask them.

0:38:58 Thomas: Way. That's truth. Yeah.

0:38:58 Lydia: I don't buy it. Yeah. One colleague referred to him as, quote, off the charts brilliant. I Would Also Like to See Proof of That, Molly. Prove that.

0:39:04 Matt: Which charts?

0:39:05 Thomas: They didn't know that's colleagues. So who know it's not a justice. Us yeah

0:39:10 Lydia: A clerk. Someone who works for him. He knows that the greatest of man's accomplishments are fleeting, and in his humility, he does not regard himself as an an inspiring figure. But as he once said, he hopes other Americans will share his passion for preserving the Constitution and the free and prosperous way of life it has made possible.

0:39:31 Lydia: And then we get a quote from him, I believe. A lot of good work has been done to protect freedom of speech, religious liberty, and the structures of government created by the Constitution. All of this is important, but in the end, there is only so much that the judiciary can do to to preserve our Constitution and the liberty it was adopted to protect. As Learned Hand famously wrote, quote, liberty lies in the hearts of men and women. When it dies there, no Constitution, no law, no court can do much to help it. For all Americans, standing up for our Constitution and our freedom is work that lies ahead.

0:39:29 Thomas: Learned at hand I

0:40:09 Matt: I agree with every word of that. It's just that we have to undo everything that Alito's done. That's the work that lies ahead.

0:40:13 Thomas: Agree with every word of that it also could have been written by a high schooler like it's not good or anything it's like oh okay

0:40:17 Matt: It's not particularly insightful. And the learned hand speech was also given in an immigrant, I believe it was a citizenship ceremony, but it's actually all about immigration, which he's not exactly about himself.

0:40:28 Thomas: Something they don't believe in now yeah now

0:40:31 Matt: So there you have it. Check out my book while the DJ resolves it. Here we go. Yeah, no, we're doing it. We're doing folks.

0:40:34 Thomas: You're gonna read that piece of shit what a good decision boy

0:40:41 Lydia: Book clips can be so fun though yeah

0:40:41 Thomas: That is I

0:40:42 Matt: I don't at all regret it at all right now, but it

0:40:45 Thomas: Mean that's a that's good one to read and make fun of because it's so laughably bad at all and what I I love about that is from everything we read there, and maybe there's more detail later, I think a better book about a better conservative justice, you know, like that would be more complicated and you might need more help debunking. This is just like, it seems to be empty bullshit.

0:40:48 Matt: Will be. We are going to have fun. Yeah. Yeah it's fluff. Yeah and

0:41:08 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. Like it's not going to be that hard. I'm not worried about anyone getting propagandized by it.

0:41:13 Matt: The reason I actually wanted to pick it and again, I probably should have picked like a more meaty book for our first one, but it's a good warmup is because this is the best they got. This is Molly Hemingway. This is the intellectual heavyweight, I guess. I do not even want to say that, but I mean, nobody else is writing like this about their justices. So I think it's a really good example of what they think is, I guess, critical intellectual writing at this point, and it's really bad. And if Molly Helming wants to come on and defend it, we'll have her on.

0:41:41 Thomas: The fuck was that? Is

0:41:44 Matt: Somebody's speeding away from me on a Microsoft.

0:41:44 Thomas: There a T -Rex outside your... wow

0:41:47 Matt: I'm so tired.

0:41:46 Lydia: Matt just lives in Jurassic Park actually that's why the seagull stole your pizzas because it's not an actual seagul it's like a prehistoric seagal yeah I

0:41:53 Thomas: Just wondering how you're gonna get there on that one arguably all right right matt up next uh oh this is a cool headline what do we have here so

0:41:58 Lydia: Got there we're

0:42:06 Matt: Is Joe Concha of Fox News telling us why we shouldn't believe E. Jean Carroll. This is pretty disgusting stuff. And of course, trigger warning, because we are talking about E. Jeanne Carroll and sexual assault, which has been proven in court, as will be discussed in here. But if in case you're wondering like how they justify potentially prosecuting her and how they They justify continuing to say that she's a liar. This is journalism, I guess. This is in focus, so it's like an in -depth piece from the Washington Examiner. So it's quite a read.

0:42:31 Thomas: It worked a little harder on this one have

0:42:34 Matt: I'm surprised we actually haven't made it to the Washington Examiners yet, because it is, of course, one of the hardest -read MAGA publications there is. I believe it's the one that's owned by the Moonies, right?

0:42:40 Thomas: We not I

0:42:40 Lydia: I I think we might have done something but we haven't we haven'T been there or maybe more than once. But yeah.

0:42:41 Thomas: Feel like we have yeah yeah okay

0:42:47 Lydia: So the title here for folks listening, I know folks watching this are going to be able to see it, but E. Jean Carroll couldn't remember the year, but she remembered to lie under oath.

0:42:43 Matt: That's probably true. Remember Delilah and Hereth. Okay.

0:42:57 Thomas: I can't remember the year of anything in the last five years like recent stuff I can'T remember what year it was yeah

0:43:05 Matt: Also, a reminder.

0:43:06 Lydia: And all these people are old. They're old.

0:43:07 Matt: Yeah. Yeah. And this allegation was in part of a book. It was her memoir. It was not the purpose of it. It just in there.

0:43:15 Thomas: And it weirdly dropped that's right it dropped in like the New York Times book review thing rather there's something like that right Right. It wasn't their main news. It was like in the book review thing. And then it blew up. Yeah. I remember that being weird anyway.

0:43:28 Matt: She didn't hold a press conference for this.

0:43:28 Lydia: And yet, this article just came out a couple days ago. Three days after Donald Trump announced he was running for president again in November of 2022, 2022, a woman named E. Jean Carroll announced she was launching a civil suit against him, alleging that he had sexually assaulted her more than 30 years ago in an apartment store in New York.

0:43:48 Thomas: Well, yeah. But it wasn't that because of the law that allowed. Yeah, it's not because he declared.

0:43:53 Lydia: It wasn't because he announced he was, yeah, I, okay,

0:43:55 Matt: We'll get there. There are going to be some lies about that law in here.

0:43:57 Thomas: Sorry. I'm already calling bullshit, but yeah.

0:44:00 Matt: Yeah.

0:44:01 Lydia: When the case finally went to trial, Carroll was asked a basic question by her attorney, when do you believe Donald Trump assaulted you? The question, the when, the win, the date has been something I'm constantly trying trying to pin down, she responded.

0:44:13 Thomas: Who?

0:44:14 Lydia: Yeah, that's fair. Carol would go on to say the assault occurred in 1994, or she later wondered maybe it was 1995. She finally landed on the year 1996, though she still can't recall which season it occurred. For his part, Trump says it never happened and doesn't remember even meeting Carol at all.

0:44:14 Matt: Yeah, that's what happens.

0:44:32 Thomas: Name anything that happened to you in the 90s and tell me the exact year or season or whatever like this isn't meaningful this is how human memory works can't even tell me The Year yeah I don't fucking know The Year I know things happened god

0:44:41 Matt: The only way I could tell you is what year in high school I was. For the The four years of the 90s, I was in high school. I could not possibly nail it down.

0:44:52 Lydia: Yeah and she wasn't like tied to any sort of academic calendar, right? Like once you're past school, I think it's a lot harder to tie things to specific time periods like because you lose sort of that that thread of your life you know

0:45:07 Thomas: It's been 30 years at this point it's yeah this is silly these

0:45:10 Lydia: Can't tell you the date that she claims to have been raped she can't tell you the month that she claims to have been raped she can't tell you the season she can't even tell you the year that she claims to have been raped by donald trump defense

0:45:19 Thomas: Are all just the same thing it's date and time she

0:45:22 Matt: And this is a quotation.

0:45:23 Lydia: Attorney

0:45:23 Thomas: Can't tell you the astrological signs under which she'd been assaulted. She can't tell you the eon. Yeah. You're making one statement as if she doesn't know the precise date of what thing that happened 30 years ago. That's not abnormal. That'S totally normal.

0:45:39 Matt: She sure does remember it happened. So, and this again, everything you just read is a quotation from, let's get the big reveal.

0:45:46 Lydia: Yeah. Defense attorney Joe Tacopina said during his opening statement in 2022.

0:45:51 Matt: So you're just quoting the opening statement from the civil trial. That's what you're doing as fact.

0:45:55 Lydia: In which Donald Trump was found liable. Right. So what are we doing?

0:46:00 Matt: Where she won.

0:46:02 Lydia: In a logical world, that should have been the end of this case.

0:46:05 Thomas: I'm sorry. Unless you can remember the minute that you were were robbed no case

0:46:13 Matt: Didn't happen.

0:46:14 Lydia: Yeah. Throw it out. Other fair questions. If something this traumatic had occurred, why didn't Carroll open a police report at the time? I'm sorry. Mid -90s?

0:46:25 Matt: Against Donald Trump.

0:46:26 Lydia: Against someone with a lot of power back then, even? Like, what are you talking about?

0:46:25 Thomas: Yeah and I I love it too this argument is constantly the people who are doing the very thing that contributed to the environment that makes women not want to report stuff they're doing the every thing and then saying why didn't you report it it's it's just it's so hypocritical and stupid.

0:46:46 Matt: This all could be copied and pasted from the Christina Blessey Ford conversation with Brett Kavanaugh, like all the same stuff.

0:46:52 Lydia: Why didn't she say anything about it from 1996 to 2019 and only wait to go public right before her book tour? Were.

0:46:59 Matt: That's when the book came out. So,

0:47:03 Lydia: Also, people weren't really interested in hearing about sexual assaults and stuff, things that happened to women until like Me Too started. And that's really what got that conversation going. So there's a reason why no one said anything in the early 2000s.

0:47:11 Thomas: But the next sentence contains a really good point that I haven't thought of yet.

0:47:20 Lydia: Most glaringly, how could she not remember the year when it supposedly occurred?

0:47:24 Thomas: You've already said this 900 times!

0:47:26 Lydia: I've read that sentence multiple times, Joe.

0:47:28 Thomas: You've got one sentence that's the article, and then you write a whole article about it.

0:47:34 Matt: This next one is a whopper too.

0:47:36 Thomas: What

0:47:36 Lydia: But this was a Manhattan court system. So the show So went on despite the statute of limitations expiring decades ago.

0:47:43 Matt: He has to know that he's talking about the law. That was a change in the law at the state level. This has nothing to do with Manhattan or New York or libs or activist judges ignoring statutes of limitations.

0:47:45 Lydia: Break that down.

0:47:43 Thomas: Does that mean? Yeah, yeah they just do whatever there. You know Manhattan, they're like, does anyone like Like, just guess what the law is. We'll just kind of do stuff.

0:47:59 Matt: It's the Adult Survivors Act, which had not been passed until very recently, which allowed people to go back, and it allowed justice against quite a lot of people that otherwise would not have been prosecuted or sued, rather. Sued. Okay.

0:48:10 Lydia: Before a verdict was reached, Carol went on Anderson Cooper's CNN show to talk about the alleged incident and what can only be described as a train wreck.

0:48:18 Matt: It could be described differently from that, actually. There's another way you could describe it. You could say that this was being taken badly out of context, the thing you're about to read.

0:48:25 Lydia: OK. Says, I think most people think of rape as a it is a violent assault. Carol responds, I Think most people Think of rape As Being Sexy.

0:48:35 Lydia: Cooper panicked, in parentheses. I don't know who, I guess Joe decided that Cooper was panicked. Let's take a short break. Carol, they think of the fantasies. Cooper, in parenthesis, at DEFCON 1 at this point. We're going to take a quick break. If you can stick around, we'll talk more on the other side. Carol, you're fascinating to talk to.

0:48:54 Matt: So yeah it may not surprise you to learn that eugene carroll was not in fact saying that rape is sexy uh she was talking about culture and

0:49:00 Thomas: Should Matt, maybe we should get the actual context for what that was. Uh let's see.

0:49:04 Matt: The examiner loves talking about this clip so let's just watch it.

0:49:06 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah it's, it's a, it can't do the whole thing but I think if we get you know maybe maybe a minute or so we'll see what actually was happening here it

0:49:14 Clip: Society and I just feel that so many women are undergoing sexual violence and mine was short I got out I'm happy now I'm moving on and I think of all the women who are enduring constant sexual violence so this one instant this one what three minutes in this little dressing room I just say it's the fight that way I'm not the victim right I'm not the victim you don't feel like a victim I was not thrown on the ground and ravished which the word rape carries so many sexual connotations this was not this was not sexual it just it it hurt it just what it just you know I think most people think of rape as a I mean it is a violent assault it is not I think those people think think of rapists being sexy let's take a short break think of the fantasies we're gonna take a quick break if you can stick around we'll talk more on the other side you're fascinating to talk to

0:50:17 Thomas: Was weird yeah

0:50:18 Lydia: Weird that is a weird ending it

0:50:19 Matt: She's making a nuanced point that the examiners can't really handle but yeah I think there was more to that. I think elsewhere in the clip she's talking about Game of Thrones and stuff but I mean obviously we're talking, she's just talking about rape culture and the way it's portrayed and she's saying very directly. I mean, that's hard to listen to what she's saying. And it's disgusting to take that and say that somehow she's glorifying what happened to her or an error saying that it wasn't... Yeah.

0:50:39 Thomas: Let's let's look at what the function of that bullshit was it was to say uh went on an alleged incident when it can only be described as a train wreck uh I think most people think of rape as violent assault carol I think mostly people think of rape is being sexy and then so the way this is being portrayed is he's trying to say it's violent and she's like no it was sexy and that like the ending I don't know what she was what she meant by the ending that is a little weird but clearly what she meant was people are our society thinks of as of rape as a sexual thing and she sang this was a violent thing like that's very clearly what you're saying right she

0:51:16 Matt: It hurt. There's nothing sexual about it. Yeah, that was

0:51:19 Thomas: Said it hurt it was violent it was like what how is this damaging that's the next sentence I don't know if you read that yet potentially damaging stuff yeah

0:51:20 Lydia: Hurt yeah

0:51:21 Matt: Actually

0:51:27 Lydia: Potentially damaging stuff. One problem, Judge Louis A. Kaplan would not allow the Cooper interview to be played in his Manhattan courtroom. Quote, the introduction of the Anderson Cooper 360 video needlessly and confusingly would invite the jury to decide this case on the basis of the defendant's view that those issues are open to discussion or reconsideration. Kaplan, a Clinton appointee, said in his ruling, they are not.

0:51:49 Matt: The second trial. The first trial it was allowed in and the defense introduced it. So I'll get back to that. Yeah so that's not even true.

0:51:54 Lydia: Oh, interesting.

0:51:54 Thomas: And what happened in that one are you wanting to talk about later well

0:51:59 Matt: She got to explain herself on the stand and actually they're going to be quoting her we'll get there so

0:52:03 Thomas: Right we do need to squeeze in one final uh commercial break here so I'll thank our last third of patrons of hall of famers of course thank you to et check out www.galenacomic.com for a cool webcomic. Bob Loblaw's Law Podcast. Philly basement bar is currently closed for spring cleaning. Well, getting raided. You know, I don't want to victim blame, but you sort of announced that you've been closed for quite a while. Elect Thomas Smith President, American Honkytonk Bar Association. Baltakatei, Philip Kizer. If you have been the victim of a vindictive taint.

0:52:41 Thomas: Coryn_Lann, A string of unpronounceable characters. Malaika Chandler, RhondaTheDork.com. Milo Meadsong is fighting petty tyrants Big Easy Blasphemy, Chris Waltrip Hors d'oeuvres in the court before we report Sam Donow, Classic libtard, and Mitchell Thanks so much, top patrons You are amazing We love you so much. You make the show happen We'll be back for the thrilling conclusion of this incredibly bad faith attack against a victim of sexual assault Let well, let's continue on here Yeah

0:53:14 Lydia: No clothing preserved, no witnesses. Trump was found liable for sexual abuse and was ordered to pay $83 million to Carol.

0:53:22 Matt: He's not breaking down how that 83 million came down there was five million for the assault and a whole bunch more for punitive damages in the second trial because she wouldn't he wouldn't stop talking about her when he was told not to so that was on him um but you know 83 million

0:53:29 Thomas: Defamation right there. Yeah.

0:53:35 Lydia: Also, I mean, it's a civil trial, too. I mean, like this idea, like no clothing preserved, like is that going to come up in a civil trial? Unlikely.

0:53:41 Matt: Come on let's not be on a reasonable down it's issues

0:53:45 Thomas: I mean, it would come up if you had it, but no. Yeah. It's like, again, this happened a long time ago. People, I think, who are invested in trying to disprove women have a really stupid idea of what evidence is. If in 1990 -whatever, E. Jean Carroll told a bunch of people at the time contemporaneously about what happened with no conceivable motive to lie at all because she's not going to the police she's not doing all that you know like that's like dead to rights proof pretty much I mean you can you know you might need a little more than that I'm sure I don't I don'T know what all the evidence was but the idea that that like oh well what she did was 30 years ago she thought to just make something up you know just in case anyone ever passed a law like just that's nonsense

0:53:48 Matt: Which

0:53:48 Lydia: Like, yeah. It's not required.

0:54:08 Matt: She did I mean all

0:54:34 Thomas: The odds that that would be made up is zero. But people like to act like that's not good evidence is tremendously good evidence.

0:54:37 Lydia: Yeah, proof.

0:54:41 Matt: You need to know from the record is that five minutes afterwards, she called one of her best friends, Lisa Birnbach, hyperventilating and said that she had just been assaulted by Donald Trump. She told another friend, I think the same day or shortly after as well. That's it. That is the evidence. That was what happened.

0:54:53 Lydia: Yeah even more predictably, Carol ran to MSNBC's Rachel Maddow to celebrate. And during this end zone dance dressed up as an interview, Maddow asked what Carol planned to do with Trump's money. And her answer spoke volumes about what this case was really all about. Quote, yes, Rachel, yes. She answered giddily. I have such, such great ideas for all the good I'm going to do with this money. First thing, Rachel. You and I are going to go shopping. We're going to get completely new wardrobes, new shoes. Rachel, what do you want? Penthouse? It's yours, Rachel penthouse and France. You want France? You want to go fishing in France? Ask yourself this. When have you ever heard a victim of sexual assault sound remotely like this?

0:55:33 Thomas: When have you ever heard a victim of sexual assault?

0:55:36 Lydia: Yeah.

0:55:36 Thomas: You haven't because you're just denying that they're that all the time.

0:55:39 Matt: Also, how often have you heard one that won in court and got millions of dollars out of it? It doesn't happen very often, unfortunately.

0:55:42 Lydia: Tens of millions of dollars. Yeah.

0:55:44 Thomas: And is like an older woman who, you know, is 30 years ago. And it's, you know like there's so much more to this. It's also again, not just about the sexual assault. It is about him continually defaming her about it. But

0:55:57 Matt: The testimony at trial was devastating about what it did to her psyche and to her sex life for the rest of the time. I think she has fully earned the right to gloat about getting his money, just as much as Stormy Daniels or anybody else. I mean, it's just, come on.

0:56:08 Thomas: Well, and it's also in addition to gloating, it's also like you fucked up my life. My revenge is going to they always say the best revenge is living a good life. Essentially you've been made whole and you know attempted to be made whole about this. You're going to use the money to try to feel better because the thing that happened was someone viciously wronging you in a way that messed up your brain for years.

0:56:16 Lydia: I'm going to try and enjoy it now. Yeah.

0:56:32 Matt: And then using his platform to go on talking and talking and talking about you, lying about you. And that's why most of the money got over there. I mean that's what happened.

0:56:37 Lydia: If this alleged incident was truly so horrible, every time, every Every time.

0:56:45 Matt: Awful.

0:56:43 Thomas: Fuck Fuck you. God, they always say this. The Blake Lively stuff too. Oh, if she was really sexually harassed, would she be smiling a year later in this photo? Yes. What do you think happens when someone gets attacked for the rest of their lives? And by the way, it's a trap every time because anytime they're like, man, I'm really sad. This is horrible. I'm Really Affected. Oh, she's milking it.

0:57:07 Thomas: She's just pretending. Look at that acting. There's no winning.

0:57:09 Matt: Who

0:57:11 Lydia: If this alleged incident was truly so horrible, would the victim ever brag on national television about how she was going to spend the money in the most elaborate way possible?

0:57:20 Matt: Cares?

0:57:20 Thomas: Asked and answered. Sure would. It did happen. We saw it. It was on TV. You just talked about it.

0:57:25 Lydia: And she won't stop talking about it. Here's Carol in a 2025 podcast interview with former MSNBC host Katie Fang.

0:57:30 Thomas: Way. She won't stop talking about the thing that the president of the United States kept fucking defaming her about.

0:57:36 Matt: And in this relationship between the two of them, apparently she is the one who won't stop talking. That's our concern here.

0:57:41 Lydia: Exactly. Quote, where my pleasure comes is making Trump so pissed off he can't think. We need to prick his little balloon constantly. And one of the ways to do that is to give his money to women's reproductive rights, Carroll said, quote, to binding up the wounds of democracy, which he is destroying by the very instant that we're sitting here. Nope, not political at all. And why isn't Carroll giving the money to support victims of sexual assault, sexual assault instead of women's reproductive rights okay by the way

0:57:51 Thomas: There you go.

0:57:52 Matt: Hell yeah.

0:58:08 Thomas: Who? I just, how can you write this stuff with a straight face? It's just incredible.

0:58:13 Matt: It's It's incredible. And did she claim not to be political at some point? I don't think she's ever made that claim.

0:58:17 Thomas: Yeah, what was that? It is weird to say nope, not political at all.

0:58:20 Matt: She's allowed to be political.

0:58:21 Thomas: I wonder where where did this author even set that up?

0:58:22 Matt: She was allowed to hate the man. Yeah, I know.

0:58:26 Lydia: Well I think it was maybe implied that it was politically motivated when he said he was going to run for president again right like there's yeah

0:58:30 Thomas: I guess that's yeah. But just on a writing level, like if that's your argument, where did you set that?

0:58:36 Lydia: I know I'm having to connect a lot of dots yeah

0:58:38 Thomas: You haven't set it up anywhere. The best you can do is that the intro sentence where it was after he ran for president. I don't know. It's pretty weak. Nope. Not political at all is just fucking weak shit. It oh

0:58:47 Lydia: By theway back in 2012 the victim who is eugene carroll called herself in a Facebook post, quote, a massive Apprentice fan and enjoyed the, quote witty competition.

0:59:00 Thomas: Give that money back I didn't know this yeah that's not trump

0:59:06 Lydia: Trump, of course, starred in The Apprenticed.

0:59:09 Thomas: He wasn't the competition though like oh

0:59:12 Matt: Right. There's so much more context to this also. Two of her friends were on The Apprentice, so she watched it when they were on. And she also said she specifically didn't watch any of the firing scenes because she just didn't like watching Trump do that, right?

0:59:20 Lydia: Because she didn't want to see him. Yeah. Trump

0:59:17 Thomas: Fucking

0:59:24 Lydia: Like almost never set up the competitions either. Right. Wasn't it usually Junior and Eric and stuff?

0:59:28 Matt: And it's pretty serious, right.

0:59:24 Thomas: Liars no they fed him they filmed it first and fed him predictions to say about it after they knew what would happen and that's all it would be like hey uh this guy's gonna make too many hot dogs and this guy is gonna whatever and then like they get so made made him look like a business genius or whatever.

0:59:43 Thomas: It's all fake. And it's not, he's not the competition, even by your own stupid article, the witty competition. He's not a part of the competition. So fucking dumb.

0:59:51 Matt: Her friends were. And also, I got to point out, this is very important, the witty competition thing is from her testimony when they showed the clip to her and asked her about it, which earlier in the article, he said they didn't do, which they didn'T do in one of the trials. But I mean, it's just amazing that he's using that testimony at this point now.

1:00:05 Thomas: Can you remind me on the two trials? Was it two trials on like a mistrial thing or was it they had to have two?

1:00:10 Matt: There was the defamation trial that came after because he wouldn't shut up. They brought it back.

1:00:13 Thomas: Did she win both of them

1:00:15 Matt: She did win a five in the first and 80 something in the second, yeah.

1:00:15 Thomas: Or? Oh, okay. So she won. So even when they showed all this evidence that was, you know, allegedly needed to be in there. Otherwise, you know, it wasn't fair. Even when it was in, she won. There you go.

1:00:28 Matt: Jury's still found four. So, right.

1:00:30 Thomas: Weird that this asshole doesn't...

1:00:30 Lydia: And that's why the judges, like, wouldn't make a difference, basically,

1:00:33 Thomas: Sorry, what?

1:00:33 Lydia: Kind of thing. Like, because didn't Kaplan say, like—like, not including—it's not like it would make a difference when they tried to appeal that.

1:00:39 Thomas: Probably

1:00:39 Matt: In the one trial where they didn't.

1:00:40 Thomas: Depended on what... Yeah, because the claims were maybe a little different or whatever. Yeah.

1:00:45 Lydia: That's quite an odd thing to say about a show featuring a guy who allegedly sexually assaulted you. Fast forward to earlier this week, the Justice Department reportedly launched a criminal investigation into Carol, alleging that she may have committed perjury during her deposition, But that report was shot down by a DOJ official on Thursday. Instead, the focus of the investigation appears to be financial support provided to Carol and her case from Democratic mega donor Reid Hoffman.

1:01:09 Matt: As if that's better, but it's bad either way.

1:01:09 Thomas: What? Yeah, what does that mean?

1:01:12 Matt: But we'll have to talk about this more. But I just remind everybody, if they haven't caught up on this one, the perjury thing that may or may not be happening is because she testified under oath that her attorneys were working in contingency. And she either forgot or just didn't know that some of her attorneys are actually being paid for by this nonprofit, which is being investigated apparently by DHA. But of all the things to catch her on perjury for, they just want to get her on purgery, obviously.

1:01:30 Thomas: So that's a joke. Yeah, that's... That

1:01:33 Lydia: I'm sorry. Yeah, that's silly. I imagine

1:01:35 Thomas: Would never happen in the real world.

1:01:35 Matt: Stupid. No, no.

1:01:36 Lydia: She has like I imagine She had a sizable legal defense team and for her to know the ins and outs of how people are being paid and like who specifics who specifically is being paid at what like. And she's old. I don't know. Like, yeah.

1:01:50 Thomas: They almost never prosecute perjury, right, Matt? And if you were to try to do it, you have to show that she knowingly lied

1:01:57 Matt: Yeah. It has to be a real cover -up, like of something that actually is material that really matters. And like, who cares?

1:02:00 Thomas: It's and it's also not just oh I misremembered that's a fact that you would get wrong you know there's no mode this doesn't affect anything it doesn't so stupid

1:02:10 Matt: Immaterial. There's the summary here from the CNN report of the thing I just said. We can just skip that, I think. Keep going, of

1:02:15 Lydia: The investigation is looking into possible crimes, including conspiracy, money laundering, and obstruction, sources told CBS News.

1:02:23 Matt: Hoffman, admitted.

1:02:24 Lydia: In a 2023 interview, Hoffman admitted to supporting Carroll's legal effort against Trump through his nonprofit organization. I like the word admitted. Yeah, exactly. So loaded. Quote, providing that support, I felt very happy to do, the Silicon Valley billionaire said. Said quote speaking truth to power and having a woman's voice be heard and not be squashed through the courts let me just let me make a note on also the silicon valley billionaire said like do not talk to me about technocrats and what side they usually support like this is one of three yeah that like happens to be more aligned with left causes everybody else is a mega gop donor So don't talk to me about that.

1:02:33 Thomas: Arrest that man what does this mean yeah yeah we found one yeah Yeah.

1:03:04 Thomas: But also, what did that quote establish? I don't know. What do you even?

1:03:06 Matt: You imagine disagreeing with that?

1:03:08 Lydia: No.

1:03:09 Thomas: Yeah.

1:03:09 Matt: Disagreeing with every word of that quotation, the idea that women are somehow doing fine in the courts and we don't need to support them? I'm just looking

1:03:16 Thomas: Hold on. We shouldn't have skipped that paragraph because in a 2022 videotaped deposition, Carroll told then Trump attorney Lena Haba that no one else was paying for illegal fees. But two weeks before the trial, Carroll's attorneys informed the judge and Trump's lawyers that they had secured funding from Hoffman's nonprofit. Isn't that after then? Or am I?

1:03:36 Lydia: Yeah, so the deposition would have happened first.

1:03:36 Matt: At my timeline here.

1:03:37 Thomas: I would think the deposition would would happen before two weeks before the trial right had secured so that's that's nothing I don't even know what this is supposed to prove but

1:03:49 Matt: They had another deposition on it. Trump also raised this issue, I believe to the Second Circuit as part of the appeal. But there's a a question of when she knew and how she knew, and whatever. But who cares? Again, I know.

1:03:58 Thomas: What what would that affect matt like what

1:04:00 Matt: I agree. Nothing. It's just something to...

1:04:00 Thomas: Part of no like genuinely is there something wrong with that and then like does that affect the trial or yeah

1:04:05 Matt: It's technically incorrect. Yeah, I really don't know what it is supposed to prove. And the judge, just to be safe, let them redepose her after this information comes out, just make sure, I guess. So I don't Know. I really understand it myself. But

1:04:17 Thomas: Could use it as impeachment evidence during the trial and that okay I guess fine

1:04:21 Lydia: Legacy media, which is reflexively anti Trump on seemingly everything is already painting the investigation as the president seeking revenge on Carol. Per the same CNN report, quote, the probe is the latest move in the department's ceaseless and somewhat strained efforts to meet Trump's demands to target his longstanding personal foes, it read.

1:04:30 Thomas: That's because it is yeah yeah Yeah. Mm

1:04:31 Matt: Heavens, no. Literally, yes.

1:04:42 Thomas: Hmm.

1:04:42 Lydia: But that's, yeah, that's just truth. That's just true. It gets no better in other publications. The New York Times, quote. In Carroll lawsuits inquiry, scrutiny turns toward private citizens who antagonize Trump. OK, the Daily Beast, the daily beast legacy media, quote Trump. Goons launch sick revenge plot against his sex attack victim sorry yeah

1:05:05 Matt: Well said.

1:05:00 Thomas: Yeah, I remember when the Daily Beast was launched in 1743.

1:05:10 Lydia: Trump goons launched sick revenge pot uh the economic times quote political witch hunt doj turns heat on trump accuser eugene carroll in new criminal probe yeah

1:05:15 Thomas: Sick. Yeah mm hmm.

1:05:25 Matt: That's what's happening. Yes, and then Biden and just won't go away. I like that in the middle of this.

1:05:27 Thomas: I love that link for some other article. Biden just won't go away. Really? I didn't even see him when he was president. He's the least won't -go -away person of all time.

1:05:33 Lydia: Again she couldn't remember the year it happened she

1:05:40 Thomas: I I didn't know that. Okay.

1:05:40 Matt: Keep saying that when it

1:05:42 Lydia: Filed no police report at the time she

1:05:44 Thomas: Why didn't you tell me earlier?

1:05:45 Lydia: Didn't even talk about it until she had a book to sell decades later

1:05:49 Thomas: How would you know if she did?

1:05:50 Matt: Was in the book.

1:05:50 Lydia: You know all of her friends and she did talk about yeah the rules were changed in a deep blue city to skirt the statute of limitations and that's not

1:05:52 Thomas: She did talk about it. Yeah, the city law.

1:05:59 Matt: It was changed in Albany, the capital of New York for the entire state, not for New York City. Come on, man.

1:06:05 Lydia: Damning statements via the cnn interview weren't allowed to be presented and carol in In one trial, not both, yeah.

1:06:10 Thomas: Except they were right. Yeah uh

1:06:10 Matt: In one trial. Yeah, just in one trial,

1:06:14 Lydia: And Carol went on national television after winning to boast about where and how she was going to spend her newfound riches.

1:06:21 Matt: Let her spike the football, man, come on. You just want a bunch of money from the guy who hurt you. Okay.

1:06:24 Thomas: That's that's nothing.

1:06:27 Lydia: In the end, Trump still easily won re -election one year after the verdict was handed down. Most sane Americans outside of rapid partisans with...

1:06:37 Thomas: Rapid partisans.

1:06:38 Lydia: Outside of rapid particans...

1:06:36 Matt: Rapid partisans. That's Yeah. I'm a very fast partisan.

1:06:39 Thomas: Probably means rabid. Yeah

1:06:41 Lydia: Yeah, yeah... With Trump derangement syndrome saw this allegation for what it was, the continued weaponization of the justice system, which may be an irreversible political strategy at this point.

1:06:52 Thomas: It's not a political story. This is she's a it's not it's none of that it's her it's civil court it's a person and also I think most americans didn't really see this like I don't know how many people knew about this to be honest with you people don't read yeah

1:06:53 Matt: It's not the justice system.

1:06:55 Lydia: It's not, it's not being weaponized. Yeah, exactly.

1:07:07 Lydia: The whole E. Jean Carroll, like, like her entire trial and all that stuff.

1:07:10 Thomas: But in yeah before the re -election I just don't think that many people knew about it I mean it was it was news I'm not saying nobody but I don'T I DON'T think you can read his election as all the voters knowing about it and being like this is cool they don't care care. They don't like care to be informed. I mean, yeah.

1:07:28 Lydia: The average American.

1:07:26 Matt: So, Joe Concha, everybody. Height of MAGA journalism. And I am sorry to have gone on such a long rape apology piece, but honestly, rape apology is still happening. I think people don't want to see it, but everywhere. And this is right -wing journalism. For those of us who don't get to read it regularly, this is what it looks like. This is what they're doing, unfortunately.

1:07:48 Thomas: And it's if you read a lot of rape apology, which we do, it's all the same. It's all of the same two or three things. Oh, you can't remember this exact detail. Oh you were happy at one point after the attack. Oh it's the same bullshit. Stupid.

1:08:03 Matt: Not seen a police report from 1972, so ipso facto. Yep just

1:08:06 Thomas: Yeah it's nothing. Morons.

1:08:09 Lydia: So ridiculous.

1:08:09 Thomas: Oh God. Wow. Well that was fun. What a what a piece of shit huh thanks so much yeah yeah I just I miss when it was just vanilla ice dum dum dum da da dum dum all right thanks I forgot to mention lydia is pro vanilla ice in that dispute thanks so mucho matt thanks so macho lydia thanks most of all to listeners and viewers and patrons we'll see you for rapid response friday oh yeah get on that book club patreon .com slash law

1:08:15 Lydia: A number of pieces of shit. Jeez. Wow.

1:08:19 Matt: Rock

1:08:27 Lydia: See, it's different. And book club. Go to patreon .com. Yeah.

1:08:44 Matt: The mic like a vandal.

1:08:46 Thomas: What what

1:08:48 Lydia: You know way too many vanilla ice erics.

1:08:50 Thomas: Does that mean no he's clearly googling them while we're recording

1:08:52 Matt: I don't know what any of it means. I had to double check.

1:08:59 Clip: This has been Opening Arguments, produced by Thomas and Lydia Smith, with editing help from Peter Baird. The intro is by Thomas Smith. This outro is by Matt Cameron. Support the show at patreon .com slash law. Contact us through Patreon or openarguments at gmail .com. Make sure to follow our blue sky at OpenArgs. But most of all, please share the show. Thanks for listening.