MAGA Says the '60s Were Too Woke and Wants Racial Immigration Quotas Back

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:09 Thomas: And welcome to Vapid Response Wednesday. I'm Thomas. That over there is real life attorney Matt Cameron. How you doing, Matt?

0:00:16 Matt: Hey, all right, Thomas. One of my favorite subjects today. Just going to get into some old-timey racism and some contemporary racism also, of course.

0:00:23 Thomas: When you're sick of the newfangled stuff,

0:00:25 Matt: That's right. Go back to the classics.

0:00:25 Lydia: We all get nostalgic for different things you know matt is apparently old -timey racism

0:00:27 Thomas: We're just, yeah. Well, when you're just up to your eyeballs and newfangling racism, it's good to get, you know, but the new stuff is a lot like the old stuff. But I guess we'll see. We'll see how alike it is.

0:00:41 Matt: Well, you know how it is. If you were just doing racism in the 60s, it's going to hit different today. So you've got to be prepared. That ditch weed isn't doing it.

0:00:48 Lydia: Hi

0:00:47 Thomas: And producer Lydia, how are you doing?

0:00:49 Lydia: Doing pretty well how are you I feel like I haven't asked you on this show for a while yeah

0:00:52 Thomas: Thank you. Doing well. I think I need a haircut. My hair's a little crazy. It came all at once. I was like, what is all this hair? And then like vaguely. So that's all that's happening with me. Literally nothing else.

0:01:00 Lydia: There you go it's like your b12 intake is really high or something thing. Your hair's growing real fast.

0:01:07 Thomas: Don't know what that's about. Anyway. Yeah, Yeah, Matt, what are we going to be talking about today? Old -timey racism? More detail?

0:01:15 Matt: So, yeah, I'm getting ahead of what I think is going to be what I'm calling a Hart-Celler summer. The Hart-Celler Immigration Act of 1965 is on the chopping block, potentially, once again. It's a Republican favorite. I've been hearing some talking points in the last few days that are pretty disturbing about why we should be going back to the 1924 racial quotas that you and I have discussed before. I did a great episode on that around the end of the year, just fantastic stuff. We're going to revisit some of that as

0:01:40 Thomas: Here's my first thought, Matt. Wouldn't that be actually currently better than where we are now? Because right now we're only letting in literally white South Africans. So if you go, okay.

0:01:49 Matt: Refugees. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:01:52 Thomas: I was going to say, if you want to apply a quota, they'd be like, whoa, wait a minute. Well, I thought it was zero of anybody we don't like.

0:01:53 Matt: Well, as you'll see, the quota was 100 for quite a while, exactly 100 a year. But this is apart part from the refugee program. So we're going to be talking about sort of the basis of our entire immigration system and how Andy Eggles wants to change that from Tennessee. He's introducing a bill. The full text isn't out yet, but from what I've seen, it's a nightmare, just the pieces of it. And the Republican talking points on this are going to normalizing some things that are completely abnormal. So I want to do a little teaching first to kind of let people know how we got to this place, the 1965 Act, how it was passed, why it was past. I'm going to give you enough information that by the time we get to the John Daniel Davidson Federalist piece that we're going to read at the end, I think you'll understand just how stupid it actually is.

0:02:02 Thomas: That's pretty small. All as stupid as the previous piece we read by john daniel davidson we'll

0:02:43 Matt: I don't know. Was that Charlie Kirk?

0:02:45 Thomas: Let the audience be the be the judge yeah we'll

0:02:47 Matt: It was something about how Charlie Kirk is...

0:02:50 Thomas: We'll tell them when we get there uh all right well I'm excited for all that nonsense good old racism today again I don't think it's only once a year isn't it uh feels like racism day every day uh allright well we'll take our first break and we'll thank Thank our patrons, our Hall of Famers, our all -time greats at patreon.com. They make the show possible. Literally wouldn't even happen without the patrons.

0:02:52 Matt: We'll get there. Yeah. I wish. I Wish.

0:03:17 Thomas: So we love giving you shout outs. I love the patrons that change their name every time. I also like the ones who don't. Either way, you know. So let's thank our first third.

0:03:24 Lydia: It's true. They're all aces.

0:03:26 Thomas: Nobbling the jury helps me get off.

0:03:30 Lydia: That's good

0:03:30 Matt: That is a felony, committing felonies.

0:03:31 Thomas: Fantastic. It's complete.

0:03:34 Matt: Got

0:03:34 Thomas: Wow. I think it's just a good time, Matt. I don't know.

0:03:37 Matt: To be the lawyer here. Sorry.

0:03:38 Thomas: Judgy.

0:03:38 Matt: Sorry.

0:03:40 Thomas: Wow. Wow. The Woof Beta Ginsbugla. Okay. My house is a mess but I read a lot of books. Griff, the Tired 1L. Gary the seagull. Still coming through. Love it. Matthew Cutler. Autistic Twitch streamer. Vetinari for America 2028. One man, one vote. UnreMerkable. Woodward. It's from the Woody Gate 2026.

0:04:03 Matt: It took me a minute. Yeah, of course.

0:04:06 Thomas: Amina. Hi, vehicular man's laughter. After we got a good messaging system too uh yeah it's uh it's a good way to use it

0:04:10 Lydia: I like that once a week your message will make it to the intended recipient as long as they watch

0:04:17 Thomas: Yeah oh uh Donna Treadaway mother of harridans Mike Lapinsky oh no don ho there we go that's a good one I like the simple ones uh cyanitis now a reference to this show Grey Pouponderance of the Evidence mr chief justice and may please the court last train to skanksville and apprentice of adventure oh good times so much fun thank you patrons and uh we'll take a break and then we'll dig into some old racism I'm All right, Matt. Well, we've pulled out all the stops here with a super fancy slideshow. That's necessary when you're talking about old -timey racism, I guess.

0:04:26 Matt: High five, huh? Nice. Well, thanks.

0:05:00 Lydia: Out olivia I'm guessing yeah

0:05:02 Matt: That's right. Thank you once again, Olivia, for getting us organized. We do have some visuals here, but I'm going to describe them. Obviously, we're on YouTube if you want to check us out, but we are still a podcast. So today's Amuse-douche is going to be some contemporary racism from a few days ago. And what better place to go than the TimCast IRL, Tim Poole's show.

0:05:13 Thomas: So, yeah. That

0:05:23 Matt: And it turns out that Tim Pool has a bunch of clowns who hang out when he's not there. I don't even care what their names are. Some of them have names, I guess. But I was looking for sort of, just because I like to tell people what the response to these kinds of policies is when it's out there.

0:05:23 Thomas: Guy. Oh, God. If my name were Tim Pool, I think my show would be Tim the Poolman Taylor. I'm just saying, I think that'd be way more fun. Is he one of the ones who turned out to be paid by the Russians or whatever? Was he in that?

0:05:41 Lydia: That's good yes yeah Yeah.

0:05:48 Thomas: Okay.

0:05:47 Matt: One of the primary ones, yeah.

0:05:49 Thomas: And we, and I think his, um, payment must come through his beanie or something. Cause that he, he's never not wearing it, right?

0:05:55 Matt: Never takes it off. That's right, that's

0:05:58 Thomas: Yeah. There must be something, you know, the last time that happened was in the first, um, Harry Potter movie when someone was wearing a head covering all. Yeah, exactly.

0:06:04 Lydia: The turban. Mm -hmm. Yep.

0:06:06 Thomas: So he's got, he could have a a face on his head back there. Could be anything. I don't trust someone who never takes off a hat. I'm just life rules for you. Okay, Matt, continue with whatever you were talking about.

0:06:14 Matt: Well, the only good news I have about this clip is you won't have to see or hear from Tim Poole. So a small bonus there, but a quick series of clips.

0:06:19 Thomas: He's probably getting his hat, his hat welded on.

0:06:23 Matt: So this is from May 15th. And what's interesting about these kinds of moments when they're about to introduce immigration policy is you can see them marshaling the talking points. And Ron DeSantis came out talking about the Immigration Act of 1965, and they're talking about him talking about it. And I just wanted to play a couple of quick clips just to show you where the average MAGA person is. I'm not sure if this is really an average MAga person, but this is certainly leading the discourse in MAGA. And we have come quite a long way since 2018 when Tom Cotton introduced the RAISE Act that we've talked about before with the points -based system. And we'll talk about this a little bit more, but But this is the discourse that's accompanying this attempt to completely undo the immigration system as we know it. So I thought it was worth just hearing from some of Maga's goons.

0:07:06 Lydia: Side note, 1,500 episodes.

0:07:06 Thomas: These are the saddest. Yeah. That and each of these people looks like a mugshot. Like, are they, is that their normal faces? Like they're just that's okay

0:07:17 Lydia: I do recognize a couple of them from the times I've had to listen to Tim Pool for show stuff.

0:07:22 Thomas: From looking up serial killers on wikipedia me too yeah they look

0:07:25 Matt: They do. And the title of the video is, This Will End Immigration. And that's a good thing, of course, for them. Yeah, and the more I'm looking at these four white guys in these mugshots, they all look like high school teachers that did something unsavory.

0:07:33 Thomas: Miserable the upper left is for sure a mugshot that guy was just arrested for something with kids I don't know what yeah it's just not good all right uh so I hit play on this all right I

0:07:39 Matt: And he wasn't sober. So here's a quick clip setting this up. Yeah.

0:07:45 Clip: Awesome. Well, Stephen, thank you very much for joining. We got the great Ian Crossland. Yeah, the discourse level has been high. I've noticed before the show it was very high IQ. So I'm going to do my best not to take it off the rails and talk about God and this

0:07:54 Thomas: Can't I hate this matt I'm quick I quit I quit the show oh

0:07:58 Matt: So the discourse level has been high. This is a quick setup here. I'm going to spoil it and say the discourse level, the IQ level will not be high. That's Ian Crossland, who's going to say some of the stupidest things we're going to hear. I couldn't find much about him. He's not very important, but he's just one of the goons. So let's go to the next clip, because I want you to hear how these people are talking about immigrants, because it's actually possibly worse than how people were talking about them in the 20s.

0:07:59 Thomas: It ended already oh oh

0:08:10 Lydia: What?

0:08:13 Thomas: Okay this is fancy oh god all right uh oh that time it didn't autoplay all right let's see what

0:08:25 Clip: Back then. But if you imagine like a tribal, you know, island group, if we just imported them and immigrated them into our country, how different that would be than like some French, a French family, a France Catholic family. Yeah. And but that like you kind of got to pose that drastic counter position so that people can understand how detrimental it would be to import people with like not psychotically that maybe that's not the right word, but it seems almost like if they do eat humans, if they're cannibals or if they kill and eat cats, you know, or whatever, they wipe feces on themselves.

0:08:31 Thomas: Does some what are you talking about the hell

0:08:56 Lydia: What?

0:08:56 Clip: I don't know what kind of cultural things they do, but like if you just like inundate a country with some bizarre difference, you got to you're going to there's going to be suffering involved. Well and this has been and

0:08:57 Thomas: What the fuck are you taking about

0:09:06 Matt: So, if these guys I made up inundated the country, these guys who eat people and smear feces all over themselves, yeah,

0:09:09 Thomas: There's something called pedophile island and if we were to import well no they probably then we'll get a bunch more politicians if we did that so yeah no it yeah

0:09:19 Lydia: The people who are already in power like they would just get more of those.

0:09:21 Thomas: That is truly Truly, I mean, you never think it can go lower than all of a sudden it can in terms of not just racism, but just in terms of intellect. Like it's like, wow, you get stupider and stupiter and you're going to have a show. I guess if you can talk, then you put do video and the Russians pay you maybe. And then a bunch of people watch you if you're a man.

0:09:40 Lydia: Unbelievable.

0:09:38 Matt: But I mean, just at least in the twenties, they were talking about actual countries and people who existed.

0:09:46 Lydia: And actual practices probably.

0:09:47 Thomas: They used to put effort into their racism. Come on. This is so low effort. Read a book that

0:09:52 Matt: He wants to counter -juxtapose the idea of this tribal nation that he made up that doesn't exist, that smears feces and eats cats, and that doesn't want to come here probably anyway.

0:10:01 Thomas: Doesn't want to come I'm here probably I don't

0:10:03 Matt: And French Catholics who historically have been some of the most violent people in Europe. I'm not saying now, but it's just kind of funny. So we got one more clip just to give you another kind of taste of the discourse and where the people that are behind Andy Ogles that support what he's doing and that he very much supports them, the way they talk about immigrants. Let's get one more.

0:10:19 Thomas: Know how you accomplish this technologically but it's pretty cool because it just stops right when it's supposed to stop I can't even

0:10:23 Matt: So we don't have to hear any more of it. I know. I requested that.

0:10:25 Thomas: What

0:10:25 Clip: The average age of an immigrant is like 28 right so it's a it's a dramatic transformation oh young people are they get riled up real easy they they want to have kids which means they want women young men particularly which means they'll take women if they don't have them um they they're very aggressive high testosterone so young men that don't understand the culture or the language can be very dangerous for a society especially if the economy starts to crack yeah yeah well I think with that all that with all THE VENEZUELAN ILLEGAL MIGRANTS COMING THROUGH THANKS TO BIDEN CONVERSATION

0:10:32 Thomas: What the fuck are you talking about holy shit now buy my testosterone supplements oh my god yeah

0:10:56 Matt: So yeah, the idea that like, if anything, if you're going to come here and be high testosterone and be aggressive to women, you are assimilating. You're assimilting to this culture.

0:11:03 Thomas: That's you they just don't want competition for their podcasts

0:11:04 Lydia: Especially if you're trying to make kids, right? Like you guys are concerned about there not being enough kids that are being made. Well, but they're not white kids.

0:11:10 Thomas: They're only concerned about the white kids yeah they They really will do the, wow, the birth rates plummeted and keep all the immigrants out in the same show and not understand that that's just racism. There's literally no other possible answer than racism for that. We need more people. We don't want these people. Done. That's racism.

0:11:33 Matt: So that's our amuse -douche for this week. Just a little setup, just a little taste.

0:11:35 Thomas: That's too much douche.

0:11:36 Matt: Of the discourse.

0:11:37 Thomas: That's like, you gave me a douche platter, a full, like I couldn't, it was the restaurant. We came first thing, we're like, let's get a little, a little delightful little take. And he threw a whole roast, one of those pigs with an apple in their mouth. And I had to eat the whole fucking thing, Matt. That was so much douche.

0:11:37 Lydia: Wasn't very amuse. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:11:53 Matt: It's like the thing where you got three people and a giant plate of nachos, and you're like, this will be fine. We can just eat this before our meal, and then that's the meal, because yeah, that's what happened. Sorry, guys.

0:12:01 Lydia: And Tim, Tim

0:12:01 Thomas: I can't take any more douche, I need a break.

0:12:03 Lydia: Poole wasn't even there and like how douchey that was. Geez. Geez.

0:12:07 Thomas: That was worse than what I've heard of Tim Pool. I mean, he's not great, but like that, the smug arrogance and not knowing what the fuck you're talking about and being racist all together, just incredible.

0:12:17 Lydia: Gross.

0:12:18 Matt: Now let's talk a little bit of history here, because the purpose, ostensibly, of Andy Ogle's bill here. And this is something they've been stewing on for a while. Something they've wanted to do is to repeal the 1965 Hart -Celler Act, commonly known as the Immigration Act of 1965. Now, this was bipartisan legislation to make up for what we're about to talk about for the 1924 system, the quota system, which again, as I've talked about on the show, the only countries that really had a racially based immigration quota system were us and the Third Reich under Hitler around the time that we were fighting Hitler. So let's pull up the first slide here. Yeah, Yeah. A little too uncomfortably close. Also very uncomfortable during the Cold War because our opponents could rightfully say, you guys are just being super racist both in the South and Jim Crow and then also in your immigration policy, internally and externally. So let's just pull up a quick slide here. We'll just go through a couple of things. Visuals aren't necessary, but they're helpful.

0:12:49 Thomas: Twinsies

0:13:09 Matt: This is Madison Grant. Perfect vision of an old-timey racist.

0:13:11 Lydia: Great mustache.

0:13:09 Thomas: Back when you're racist used to dress well at least If I'm

0:13:17 Lydia: He has the hat, like, at a perfect little angle right now.

0:13:20 Thomas: Going to be put into a camp I'd want it to be by that guy Yeah, they used to care At

0:13:24 Matt: That's right. A man who waxes his mustache. I mean, he looks like an actual villain. He's just got the perfect look. But this is Madison Grant.

0:13:32 Thomas: Least Stephen Miller believes in what he's saying I don't even believe these assholes They're just cashing in They're talking about high testosterone immigrants while they're selling testosterone And other boner stuff And they don't give a shit they're just raking in white dude podcast youtube cash r

0:13:37 Matt: Yeah, that's true. Totally.

0:13:43 Lydia: Supplements. Yeah, yeah.

0:13:50 Matt: So Madison Grant wrote this book, very famous book at the time, called The Passing of the Great Race. You can guess which one it is that's passing and which one is great. Yeah. Yeah. Obviously, white people did not make it to 2026.

0:13:58 Thomas: .i .p yeah did that happen yeah is there that's wow he was one of the last white people then huh maybe

0:14:04 Matt: So I think this very podcast you're looking at right now is living proof that the great race has passed. Here we are. So Madison Grant.

0:14:12 Lydia: Can I read this little blurb right here on the page?

0:14:14 Matt: Yes, please do. Yeah, it's

0:14:15 Lydia: An entirely new and original recasting of history on a purely scientific basis, treated in a clear and popular style. The permanence of physical characters, both in relation to the, quote, melting pot of America and to the changes in race preponderance in Europe resulting from the European war, is brilliantly discussed.

0:14:15 Matt: Great. Yeah. Perfect summary.

0:14:35 Thomas: They did maybe there is nothing new under the sun this is just like you know steven uh who am I thinking of who's the who's the harvard guy with the frizzy hair Pinker yeah Steven Pinker this is like that again it's like the same fucking thing.

0:14:45 Lydia: Pinker. Yeah.

0:14:46 Matt: Pinker? Yeah. No, this is straight up eugenics back when they called it eugenics and when everybody was thinking about eugenics. But no, I just want to be clear.

0:14:54 Thomas: You don't understand. It is recasting of history, Matt, in a scientific basis. They haven't done that before.

0:14:58 Matt: That's right. Right.

0:14:59 Lydia: Purely scientific basis.

0:15:00 Thomas: Yeah. You needed an outsider to come in and be like, you're doing this all wrong. Here's what's real science. And it's just racism. That's how it works, man.

0:15:01 Matt: And to be clear, eugenics, unfortunately, this is one of the first times that Congress actually considered science in passing legislation, and it was this. Very unfortunate. So let's go to the next slide and get a taste here of Madison Grant's science. His buddy, Harry Laughlin, testified before Congress, was very influential on this. We have looked at this map before, but I had to bring it out again. I love this map so much.

0:15:26 Thomas: I remember a slightly different version of it, though, too. Right. We've seen a few of these.

0:15:29 Matt: I think it might have been black and white, but yeah. This is the present distribution of European races, and And it'll contrast well at the next map, but we'll pull up in a second. But just to remind everybody, we've got Nordics that are red, Alpines that are green in kind of the middle throughout Switzerland and France. And then Mediterranean, of course, you're unseemly. Southern Europeans, okay.

0:15:47 Thomas: Now, look, I am bad at this kind of thing. Every time I see a map, it's a revelation. I'm like, wow, there's all those places. Holy shit, I forgot about that one. Bulgaria?

0:15:55 Matt: They're all next to each other.

0:15:56 Thomas: Did you guys know about Bulgaria?

0:15:58 Lydia: Yeah.

0:15:58 Thomas: Every time. I'm, like, I don't remember where anything is.

0:15:59 Matt: They just won Eurovision. Congratulations,

0:16:01 Thomas: Yeah, but this is a whole different thing. This is, like... I don' t... We got, like.... It's, like someone's making a turkey or something. I don't know what... What all the red stripes...

0:16:01 Matt: Bulgaria. The stripes are weird. I don't get the stripes. It's very strange.

0:16:11 Thomas: It's like our kid's Thanksgiving thing.

0:16:12 Lydia: That is interesting.

0:16:13 Thomas: Like, he'd

0:16:13 Lydia: Why? Yeah. Why is it split

0:16:15 Matt: It's just a mix.

0:16:15 Thomas: Put his hand there and, like,... Yeah.

0:16:17 Matt: There's the best way to show that it's a mix, I guess, of Alpins and Nordics.

0:16:20 Lydia: Like that? I see. Okay. I thought it literally meant like if you lived in that particular strip on the map.

0:16:25 Thomas: It's really stratified, like literally Ireland, too. It's got like they live in alternating rows of races.

0:16:31 Matt: Even some Mediterranean's over there in Ireland and England.

0:16:33 Lydia: How is that possible that

0:16:35 Matt: Well, you know, they make their way.

0:16:36 Thomas: I like the couple dots in Spain. They're just like I this street in particular is real fucking some

0:16:40 Lydia: Guy it's just that guy like we like that guy

0:16:43 Thomas: Weird races over here.

0:16:45 Matt: That's And my cousin lives there. Yeah.

0:16:46 Lydia: Or I owe him I owe my favor

0:16:48 Matt: Right, right. So yeah, I just love dragging these things out because Alpines and Nordics are not a race you hear about. You see people talking about Mediterranean people, but not as a race, but Alpines and Nordics were like a determined race based on eugenics and physiology and stuff. Let's go to the next map, and we'll see the map of 1924, the immigration bill. Now, this is from the front page of the New York Times, of the section, rather. And this is... Lydia, if you want to read our headlines here.

0:17:12 Lydia: America of the melting pot comes to end effects of new immigration legislation described by senate sponsor bill chief aim he states is to preserve racial type as it exists here today how

0:17:23 Matt: Thank you, New York Times. Okay.

0:17:25 Lydia: How How new legislation will change the flow of immigration from Europe to the U.S.?

0:17:26 Thomas: Just I love the grammar. Are we missing any words? America of the melting pot comes to end. I like that.

0:17:33 Matt: That's what you can fit in the New York Times.

0:17:33 Thomas: I can't even understand what

0:17:36 Matt: But on the left, we have the map under the present law, which we've got very scary amounts of immigration from Russia, Eastern Europeans, they're very concerned learned about Jewish immigration at this stage. We got lots of people from Italy. We can't be having that. And then on the right, we've got the very nice new later map and you can see who's emphasized now.

0:17:36 Thomas: That means exactly. Cool. I Like how in either case, fuck Spain. Like we're just not, Spain is blank. No matter what, we're all agreed. Fuck Spaniards. Okay.

0:17:55 Matt: That's right. We're done with them. That's right, totally.

0:18:03 Matt: Yeah. So now, of course, we're emphasizing, yeah, yeah.

0:18:04 Lydia: So we have, yeah, Great Britain is the above 50 ,000, it looks like. Germany, 30 to 50K.

0:18:09 Thomas: I want to know why did Bulgaria get fucked when Romania was awesome back then? Like they were letting people in from Romania, maybe because because they thought there was Roman, but I don't know. Why is it spelled with a U? Is that how it used to be or something?

0:18:16 Lydia: Romania, hmm, yeah.

0:18:23 Matt: It's old timey spelling.

0:18:25 Lydia: Romania, yeah?

0:18:26 Matt: I mean, we can't discount the possibility of vampires were involved in our immigration policy.

0:18:28 Lydia: For Yugoslavia, I guess.

0:18:34 Matt: That is very possible.

0:18:28 Thomas: Jugoslavia. Yeah. Yeah, that's true.

0:18:35 Matt: Principles, getting more Romanians. So this is the 1924 bill that we've talked about before. I'm just doing a refresh here, but this was designed, and in case you missed it in this headline, designed to preserve racial type. And the idea was that we're going to set quotas based on how many people were here in the 1890s from each population group. Reminder, of course, that the enslaved Africans who were brought over are not counted because they didn't immigrate, so they get double punished. It's pretty bad. So we're not setting quotas for Africa. We are barring Asia, which was pretty much already barred, and we're setting a rule that anybody who's not eligible to naturalize can't immigrate. And of course, we'd barred pretty much everybody from China, Japan, East Asia from naturalizing. So that was an easy way to do it. Like we're just referring back to the standard we already set. So this was again exclusively...

0:19:25 Thomas: What did Finland do?

0:19:26 Matt: Yeah.

0:19:27 Thomas: What the fuck did Finland Do?

0:19:26 Lydia: Well, I think that's the thing. It's like no one no one is coming to America from Finland.

0:19:29 Matt: Good question.

0:19:29 Thomas: Like Finland, like Sweden, Norway, we've got people like Russia, we got people, but Finland, no.

0:19:33 Lydia: But no, I I think the point is, though, is that they weren't immigrating here. Right?

0:19:38 Matt: Right.

0:19:38 Lydia: So it's being set to.

0:19:39 Matt: It's not enough. Right?

0:19:40 Thomas: Yeah no, I get that.

0:19:41 Matt: They were staying at home.

0:19:41 Thomas: It's kind of interesting how how arbitrary it is though when you look at like germany is where we love germany apparently um that's never going to come back to haunt us after 1924 or whatever you said it's kind of funny so it's just based on who was here and we're like well people at the time were like well except for black people I guess like who whatever we had is great they literally did a bill that's like things should be as they always were the bill oh great why would they think this was the magical ingredient like this random assortment of people who came over whenever you know like probably out of desperation why would they think that like well okay magically that was the exact racial groups that were good it just happened to be like why would that even be yeah

0:20:05 Matt: That's right. That is our

0:20:22 Lydia: That's the correct balance yeah yeah oh

0:20:23 Matt: Parents and grandparents. It is not the other people. But also, I will note, they juked the numbers and there was a big debate over whether they should use the 1890 census or the 1900 census. But of course, in the 1890 Census, you get strong Northern European representation. By 1900, you had a lot more Southern European and Eastern European. So they purposely, even though they should have used the 1900 or even the 1910 one, of course, they're taking every 10 years, they went back and played the game with the 1890 census.

0:20:41 Lydia: Anti

0:20:48 Matt: Very intentional.

0:20:48 Thomas: My god not

0:20:48 Lydia: -italy kind of thing yeah yeah

0:20:50 Thomas: This new fangled 1900 stuff I want to go back to when times were good back in 1890 before crime

0:20:54 Matt: The best times. That's right. I can go to the next one here. See what's next.

0:20:59 Thomas: Next one this is fun okay that's

0:21:00 Matt: So this is just a quick table of the immigrant visas, the quotas, rather. All the ones that are set at 100 are basically African and Asia, and they set basically in case we wanted to let some people in, we just had a token 100.

0:21:13 Thomas: Like the default like you can you will allow you a couple oh wow wait

0:21:16 Matt: If we have particularly people that we want to let in.

0:21:19 Lydia: So like no one is like absolutely barred from immigrating it's just like trying to say that oh Oh, okay.

0:21:22 Matt: They changed that later. Yeah. No,

0:21:25 Thomas: And this is real numbers that's not like thousands or anything so we just didn't want anybody here except for Great Britain Northern Ireland Germany Ireland

0:21:28 Matt: These are real numbers. This is annual. And you'll see how that caught up in the next chart here as we go on. But just Just notice the difference between the British Great Britain quota and, say, the Estonian or any of the others. We'll see them in a minute. Or Greece.

0:21:35 Thomas: Ireland geez yeah

0:21:46 Lydia: Oh, 116 Estonians.

0:21:47 Matt: The difference between Great Britain and Greece. I mean, it's just astonishing. Yeah. Just in the hundreds versus...

0:21:51 Thomas: Well or or like yeah I'm trying to think uh it's just arbitrary right I mean Italy Italy and Greece like why would you you have a huge difference. I don't know. Just, well,

0:22:00 Matt: So 1890 was before the massive amount of Italian immigration that would come in the early 20th century. And Italians and Irish, remember, were not people we wanted.

0:22:07 Thomas: I'm saying Italy is getting better treatment here than I would have thought, I guess, you know?

0:22:11 Matt: Still had to let them in. Still plenty of them.

0:22:14 Thomas: You know, it's funny. Yeah. Back then we had a different kind of racism because like Sweden, Switzerland, we're not letting anybody in, but Italy, we are. I feel like nowadays it would be like, no, Sweden, like all those, you know, those kinds of countries people are cool with apparently the Trump administration.

0:22:32 Matt: They're kind of joking in the TimCast show about how it's kind of funny that they used to discriminate against different kinds of white people, because it is kind of funny. But let's go to the next one. You'll get a better idea of how this actually played out.

0:22:43 Matt: So this is the waiting list under the 1924 system. On the right, we've got a column for mortgaged visas. So we've one column that says the actual annual quota, the next column is the registration for people who are waiting in the line for those visas. And then the next line is when it's mortgaged out to you. That's the word they use, is mortgage. So yes, poor Estonia.

0:23:01 Thomas: Estonia boy there's

0:23:02 Lydia: 21, 2146 for those that are listening.

0:23:03 Thomas: So you're saying that's the year that you get through the backlog to

0:23:07 Matt: We're 120 years from Estonia's backlog now, still 2,146 because they're, yep, 116 a year, and they had 3,908 waiting. So that's the way they figured that. That.

0:23:13 Thomas: Let in 116 people oh my god why

0:23:20 Matt: And look at Greece, right? They were going to mortgage that out to 2014. As you'll see, we have a similar issue today, but in a different way, different things. But you can flip through this some more on the next page. But this just kind of gives you an idea.

0:23:37 Thomas: Is there India 100 in India outside India oh okay it's just the ethnicity and then they're like okay gotcha

0:23:43 Matt: That's actually one other piece of old -timey racism here is that they would charge you to the country that you were supposed to be from. Even if you were born in Sweden or whatever, you're still Indian. So it's racist. It's like straight up racial.

0:23:52 Thomas: Because well think about I mean there well there would have been a lot of people of indian descent well at this time probably in the uk right and so it's like they don't want to let in people from england who are dark they're like hey you're you actually are from india they're

0:23:54 Lydia: Like colonialism, like just, yeah, yeah

0:24:04 Matt: As British. That's right. Yep,

0:24:05 Lydia: And then on the flip side, British people that are living in India, they're treating them as if they're They're coming from the UK.

0:24:11 Thomas: Probably fine yeah oh

0:24:13 Matt: Or what they called Palestine, right? You'll see in the next one, there's a slot for Palestine that's also mortgaged, which would have been Israel basically at the time. But yeah, that's mortgaged out. Philippines obviously have always been mortgages out, but that's not too bad at the time.

0:24:17 Thomas: Palestine yeah this is before the state of israel but there's an israel and a palace okay interesting Interesting.

0:24:32 Matt: I should know more about history here. But yeah, so yeah, sorry, take that back.

0:24:36 Thomas: But Israel is only 100. This is before all that stuff. Yeah, it's a lot of weird, complicated stuff.

0:24:40 Matt: For APEC.

0:24:41 Lydia: Poland mortgaged out to 2000.

0:24:43 Matt: Yeah. Yeah and

0:24:44 Thomas: Well, because again, I guess this is also kind of racist for according to these people, right? It's not necessarily, it might not necessarily be a one to one of countries because I feel like they want their racism to be more about these different ethnicities, maybe. I don't know. No.

0:24:58 Matt: Also the likelihood that you're gonna get Jewish immigration. So you're much more likely to get Jews from Poland than from Sweden is the way they saw it. So it was very much on the mind when they did this. So this is, by the way, I should say my source here is a report that I love very much called Whom We Shall Welcome, It's a 1952 report in which it was done for Truman, because he was trying to stop this. To his credit, President Truman was trying undo this.

0:25:21 Thomas: Sorry. We're into the 50s now. Oh OK. So we are. I thought we were still in the 20s. So we are so there obviously there is Israel.

0:25:24 Matt: This is as of the 50s, I should have said, what the waiting lists are. Yeah, so Truman actually vetoed the bill.

0:25:28 Lydia: There's a state of Israel. Yeah.

0:25:30 Thomas: Gotcha. Well, no, no. No. Because because their mortgage to 1954 and it would require to.

0:25:40 Matt: I don't want to get too much into the numbers. Again, you know how I am with math, but there's some reason.

0:25:43 Thomas: But the date the date isn't can't be right. I'm just saying they can't Be from there's got to was this old maybe.

0:25:48 Matt: Well, Well, this report is from 1952.

0:25:49 Thomas: Maybe. Right. Okay. Was this like in the report?

0:25:50 Matt: I don't know. Maybe as of then. Yeah, probably.

0:25:52 Thomas: Maybe this was an old document.

0:25:53 Lydia: As of this date, kind of thing, maybe.

0:25:55 Matt: I haven't read it in a while. I just remembered this chart. I have not seen this chart online. I actually went to the actual PDF and got this out of it because I love this chart, but regardless, it just gives you an idea of what we're working with and how this ended up. And the point is that they realized over and over again that by the time we got to the 60s and onward, there were going to be way more available visas from Ireland and the UK, which aren't on here because they're showing the countries that are most mortgage, than they needed, than the used. And consistently, Ireland and UK were not sending people to meet their requirements while you had all these other people backlogged. So this became a real issue. But more importantly, as I said, it's the Cold War. We're projecting the idea that we're supposed to be a welcoming country, that we are doing better than the communists, that we have a more open society, and we're doing this to people openly, racially. So you can check the next slide. I just want to keep this moving and show you a product of chain migration.

0:26:49 Matt: I want to talk a little bit about chain migration because

0:26:51 Thomas: Should we take a break first, do you think?

0:26:52 Matt: We should. I'll just do that.

0:26:55 Thomas: Sorry for the jump scare, or I don't know why I'm apologizing. You should apologize for the jump scare, Matt.

0:26:59 Matt: I did that.

0:27:00 Thomas: This was horrifying.

0:27:00 Lydia: Listeners are spared the jump scare.

0:27:01 Matt: Sorry.

0:27:02 Thomas: Maybe I need to go back. Undo. Was that not supposed to be? Was that in the wrong spot or something?

0:27:07 Matt: It's fine. Just a trim picture. Picture.

0:27:09 Thomas: All right. Well, let's get back to... Let's take a break. Let's thank our Hall of Famers who are not horrible racists from the 20s and 50s that I know of. So, thank you to probably a real person, Nick Fish, Vincent LaGuardia Gambini, attorney at law, a negative phenomenon, submitted for the approval of the Midnight Society. I call this story, you got to fight for your right to ex parte I don't

0:27:36 Lydia: I just have to say that was an are you afraid of the dark reference by the way that someone called me out for not knowing and they expected you not to know thomas because they were like I understand thomas's television habits from when he was growing up but lydia not knowing and I said I was a scaredy cat and I've probably only seen two or three episodes of are you Afraid of the Dark.

0:27:41 Thomas: Know what that is yeah oh yeah you'd have to have a channel yeah I didn't have any channels what's matt's excuse oh

0:27:55 Lydia: He doesn't have one.

0:27:55 Matt: I also didn't have a TV.

0:27:56 Lydia: Oh, I was the only one with a TV.

0:27:56 Matt: So yeah, here we are.

0:27:57 Thomas: Well I I had a tv it just got channel three channel six channel 10 channel 13 and sometimes channel two yeah it didn't come in well but it was but sometimes it did uh thank you too you got a fight for Rewrite to Exparte, Jay Sank, David Souther, Vehicular Man's Laughter, giving shout outs to all my Wokies, especially Amina. Seriously, go subscribe to Dub2Dub. Thank you.

0:28:01 Matt: Oh, I didn't know that.

0:28:06 Lydia: Sometimes Channel 2. Thank you.

0:28:24 Thomas: I heard there's a fine cask of Diet Coke in the ballroom bunker. John Roberts choking on 4 .3 inches of coal.

0:28:31 Lydia: So good.

0:28:32 Thomas: Today's episode is brought to you by the letter, unreadable, Cavalry, Thomas Freeman, Cajun Killa, Fraud Fishy Hates Everything, Chris Simpson, Missing Knowledge Fight, and Anonymous Akila. Thank you so much Hall of Famers we'll take a break and then we'll get to the rest of the racism for today okay Matt ah okay we're back here's some some immigrants we shouldn't have let in yeah

0:28:53 Matt: So this is of course, young Donald Trump with his parents. Yes. And I know nothing against Trump's mom. She seems like she was probably fine, but she came at 18 from Scotland in 1929.

0:29:02 Thomas: There's no chance that's true Matt

0:29:03 Matt: Yeah. Well, if you can go back in time and not let her in.

0:29:04 Lydia: She helped raise Donald Trump. So yeah.

0:29:04 Thomas: Sorry there's no chance that's

0:29:06 Matt: Yeah, right. She would not have been admissible for any reason under today's law. She just came in under the quota in 1929, and she was on 18, unemployed. And again, nothing wrong with that, but that's how the law was at the time. It was pretty easy to come here. His father had already benefited from his grandfather having come much earlier before, but his mother would not have been here without the quota system, which of course favored the UK if she was Scottish.

0:29:26 Matt: So that is a picture of young Trump and his parents. Let's go on to the next, so we don't have to look at this anymore, please. It's already up too long. Sorry, everybody. Okay, so this is a graphic I like to push out here once in a while. This is from Numbers USA, which is evil.

0:29:30 Thomas: Jesus Christ yeah well

0:29:39 Lydia: We talked about them in uh in vr1

0:29:41 Matt: Yes, yes, absolutely. One of my favorite go -tos.

0:29:41 Thomas: The oh my my god chain migration it says under current u .s law and then the sub subheading here the potential impact of a single immigrant admission holy

0:29:51 Matt: This incredible. This amazing.

0:29:51 Lydia: This is the the marble demonstration

0:29:54 Matt: If you could describe what you're looking at.

0:29:54 Lydia: That they do or skittles what was it yeah

0:29:56 Matt: Yeah, the marbles, the gumballs. Of course, this is very much along the lines of the gumball.

0:29:53 Thomas: Crap oh

0:29:58 Lydia: Marbles gumballs gumballs yeah yeah

0:30:02 Matt: So this chart though, you notice there's no X or Y axis on this chart for good reason.

0:30:01 Thomas: Yeah that was the best this isn't a chart man I know you're bad at math but this is uh go

0:30:08 Matt: No it's not but let's describe it quickly here it's ridiculous so there's one guy you're good

0:30:14 Thomas: Ahead hon oh oh

0:30:13 Lydia: So we I how am I supposed to describe matt's

0:30:16 Thomas: Sorry

0:30:17 Matt: Well I know what I'm looking at it's it's messy yeah

0:30:17 Thomas: What you can't see

0:30:18 Lydia: Matt's like read this and there's nothing to of eb

0:30:20 Thomas: You can't oh yeah so there's one guy is he eb immigrant what's

0:30:24 Lydia: Immigrant down at the bottom okay

0:30:24 Matt: So that would be a skilled immigrant so that's what they say they want is one skilled immigrant and he I'm sure it's just a coincidence that he just happens to be a black uh outline of a person but

0:30:25 Thomas: Eb oh the v is that the visa eb or something what yeah

0:30:27 Lydia: But then yeah and then his connections link to parents siblings spouse and children and then from their spouse and Children obviously have parents and siblings who then also have parents and other

0:30:34 Thomas: Sibling sibling sibling spouse children what is even the point of this this is so stupid but

0:30:46 Lydia: Spouses and and

0:30:47 Matt: There's this is terrifying for a certain kind of person.

0:30:49 Lydia: Then the siblings have the same and yeah yeah yeah

0:30:51 Thomas: Like okay I can't there's too much this is like little like lego man or something I can even read what this is but it just appears to be for the listeners especially especially one little guy. And then it's like, well, siblings, and then they have kids and then they have children and they have kid or something, or like they're bringing people in and it just goes on forever.

0:31:09 Thomas: There's different colors for no reason. Like what, what are even the reasons of that of

0:31:09 Matt: There's like a thousand people. Yeah. Well, you know that thing where you do the family tree, but you just map out your future?

0:31:16 Lydia: Well it's it's the family it's the family tree right so the blue so right so you have your blue guy down at the bottom that's connecting to all the blue guys up at the top so it's like it's a family tree but with zero barriers right your your family tree ends up just kind of taking over everything which it normally would anyway if you brought in everybody everybody

0:31:17 Matt: Reverse family tree. Right, right. Exactly.

0:31:18 Thomas: Nothing though? Like, okay. But what, it's just arbitrary. Someone colored stuff. There none of this is justified in any way. It's just someone like, I also want to know why did they they keep going? Like you could just, why not keep going more? I don't know what, are they having kids or are they bringing people in? I can't tell what they think this is.

0:31:47 Lydia: Both

0:31:47 Matt: I want to be sure to highlight this because when they're talking about chain migration, this is the nonsense they're talking about. They think that it's possible for all of these people to end up in this country. And again, ultimately, any one person can can spawn generations of large family, it's possible.

0:32:05 Thomas: We better not let Genghis

0:32:05 Matt: But yeah, right.

0:32:06 Thomas: Khan in. Otherwise we're going to have like everybody in the world.

0:32:09 Matt: But they're positing here that this person is somehow going to bring in like a thousand people or more to the point that he's going to be responsible for people being born in multiple generations, which they don't like either because obviously the original guy is Black apparently. But this is, yeah, yeah.

0:32:22 Lydia: It's also like so egocentric too like this idea that all of these people would even want to come to america it's like just ridiculous

0:32:28 Thomas: Well, also if, if it is indeed people having kids, cause it's unintelligible. I can'T tell if it is indeed people havingkids, you're just describing what your ancestors were like you, anyone, unless Unless you're Native American, or I suppose if you're black and your ancestors were brought over here, everybody else, probably like the races who are making this, you can trace back you're on this chart.

0:32:53 Thomas: Like you're not even very far on this chat. Because like if this is truly generations, it goes pretty quick.

0:32:52 Lydia: This is just generation yeah yeah yeah

0:32:56 Matt: And until 1965, you didn't have to bring your family over. They could just come over under the quota system if they were British or Irish. There's no requirement they'd be related to you at all. As we'll see, that became an issue later. But I just want to show you this because when people are talking about chain migration, the really important factor that is not accounted for on this chart is, I believe, the y -axis of time. There's no indication of how long it takes to bring these people.

0:33:20 Thomas: That's what I don't understand.

0:33:21 Matt: And you a few shots that will just give you an idea. We're going to use the example of Mexican brothers and sisters because it is the most egregious category. Let's go to the next slide here and I'll show you something. So this is the current visa bulletin, F4. So we're looking at a chart here that's got a lot of numbers on it and a lot dates. But the F4 category is siblings. And China, India, Mexico, and Philippines are always what they call oversubscribed because you can never have more than 7 % of the visas go to any one country. And there's only, I think, 265 or something thousand visas in the world. There can only be, I'll show you this in a minute, 65 ,000 sibling visas issued every year across the world, 65, 000. That's not very many. So if you're talking about obviously parents, you only have two parents for the most part, but when you have siblings, you can have potentially four or five siblings. You can see how the list would get backlogged very quickly. So Mexico right now is processing cases that were filed in April, 2001. And that date has been

0:34:16 Matt: Crawling forward, but it gets worse, Lydia. It gets worse because you would think that means 25 years because that was 25 years ago. I'm going to show you that it doesn't.

0:34:23 Lydia: It compounds on itself I'm sure

0:34:25 Matt: Yes, it crawls slowly. This is not a logarithmic progression. So just take in this chart. Let's go to the next one and you'll start to see how this works here. So this is the law. This the allocation of immigrant visas. I just wanted to have it on the screen, but as I just mentioned, it limits. Well, I believe it was passed in 65 I haven't amended a couple of times, but you can't have any more than 65 ,000 total sibling visas, which means it works out. And the most you can have is 4 ,255 going to any one country in any one year.

0:34:54 Matt: So if you've got say a million waiting from one country, that might take a while. Let's go to the next year. And you'll see, this is the current data. This is, I believe as of 2024 from the department of state, there are 688 ,740 people waiting in line right now now from Mexico that have been sponsored by their brothers and sisters. And I had to actually put it into a calculator. I don't know if you can do the math here, but if you divide 688 ,000 by 740, if you divided that by 4 ,255, you get 161 years. That's how long it takes right now. So people, I hear lawyers all the time telling people that, well, it'll take 25 years for a brother or sister from Mexico. That that's meaningless. That just means that they're processing them from 25 years ago. But as that backlog continues to grow, then this is what we again. So we've just created a new kind of problem when we removed the racial quotas and got it family -based. So you can see, that's

0:35:47 Thomas: I see. So I think you meant it's not linear earlier. I think that's What you meant. So no, it is logarithmic.

0:35:51 Matt: Not logarithmic. Yeah, these are words. It

0:35:53 Thomas: It probably is logarithm. It's not linear. So if it were linear, it'd be a one -to -one year, which I think is the thing.

0:35:53 Matt: Is. Oh, right. Right. Not linear. Thank you. Right? That's right.

0:35:59 Thomas: So because it's not based on like you've, so you've caught up to 25 years ago, but that's based on how that doesn't have the variable of how many people are on the list per year. So in that year, if in 2002, you've got like a hundred thousand people say, that means it's going to take way more than a year to go another year, basically. So the time, so if we're in 2001 now, the time we get to 2002 could be 10 years from now okay yeah

0:36:20 Matt: And that's right, that's fine. When I started practice the Mexican sibling category, I think, and again, I started practice 20 years ago, I think it was like in 91 or 92, and so that gives you a pretty good idea. But it's growing, but the backlog has only continued to grow, right? So there's just...

0:36:37 Lydia: Yeah, there you go. Right?

0:36:41 Thomas: And I'm sure it'll get it'll slow down even more like probably

0:36:44 Matt: Sure, sure. So yeah, this is really important. All right, let's get on the next one, just because again, when we're talking about chain migration, there's a lot we're talking about. And I just want to show you one more thing and click through the processing times if you're able to do that, if you want to open a new tab.

0:36:57 Matt: I want to just show you for yourself here. So this is from the USCIS website.

0:36:57 Thomas: It's doing some things here oh oh I can like get I

0:37:02 Matt: So you can find out the processing times. And now again, this is just the actual processing times for the visa to be approved. And then once the visa is approved, you still have to wait. So if you drop down in the form dropdown, go to I -130, and that's going to be your visa petition for an alien relative. And then select the category of brother or sister at the bottom, U .S. citizen for brother or sister, and then just say the national benefit, all field offices rather. So So this is how they're processing. And get processing time. Let's just find out. There we go.

0:37:03 Thomas: See you seem to zoom in and select your okay all right 80 % of cases are completed within 261 .5 months.

0:37:35 Matt: Congratulations.

0:37:37 Thomas: Wow. And that's 80%.

0:37:37 Matt: And that's just for the processing.

0:37:38 Thomas: If it's a particularly tricky case, it could take 10 ,000 years.

0:37:39 Matt: That's right. That's fine. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. And that is, yes, only to process the form because they know that the actual Visa bulletin is not going to be current anytime soon. So they just bottom shelf these things and just wait to process them because there's no point because it's not like they're gonna be available anytime soon So that's Just kind of a fun one.

0:37:52 Thomas: My God. Huh? Wow. Wow,

0:37:59 Matt: Yeah, processing times generally are pretty long right now for a lot of things, although not for others, which is strange. But I just wanted to let you see that for yourself, straight from the USCIS website. All right, let's go on to the next slide.

0:38:06 Thomas: That's crazy. I wish people knew this. Nobody knows this. They just think you can get right in. I know I'm not yelling at you, Matt.

0:38:11 Matt: That's why we're talking about it. And yeah,

0:38:15 Thomas: I'm telling you, people should share this.

0:38:18 Matt: Yes, it's important information. And it's also really important as we get into our heart -cellar summer, as I'll show you. So let's get on to next thing.

0:38:27 Thomas: It sounds so much nicer, like, cooler, more fun than it is.

0:38:31 Lydia: Just that's you feel like hot girl summer, right?

0:38:33 Thomas: Heartbreaker summer, yeah, or something, you know. Heartseller, you're like, you Know, you are hooking up or something. Oh,

0:38:35 Matt: All We got a quick clip here from Brett Tolman, who is a former US attorney, and I think he was briefly judged. But he's appearing on Fox News, he's going to be badly explaining this history. And we have somebody here who's actually worse at math than I am, possibly.

0:38:51 Thomas: Geez. Holy moly. Who knows what's going to happen.

0:38:53 Lydia: That was one of his qualifications to be a judge.

0:38:55 Matt: If you want to flip ahead to 25, second 25, just to skip the intro. And he's talking about about denaturalization. And then he's going to get into... This is after a shooting, by the way, in Michigan, carried out by somebody who married a US citizen.

0:39:06 Thomas: So, this Saddam Hussein looking guy over here on the right, is that who?

0:39:09 Matt: Brett Tolman, that's right. The shooting was somebody who remarried a US citizens, a guy through marriage. So everything he's about to say has nothing to do with this. I don't even know why they're doing this. And also, the shooting that they're responding to. So Fox is saying, why don't we denatualize dangerous criminals? Why don't...

0:39:17 Thomas: Witch shooting? What? What shooting? Oh,

0:39:23 Matt: How do we stop these people from coming here? And Brett Tolmon, again, former prosecutor, apparently is an expert in the immigration system. I think it's kind of of a funny explanation.

0:39:32 Clip: KNOW THE LAST 40 50 YEARS THERE'S BEEN A COUPLE OF SIGNIFICANT CHANGES WE USED TO GIVE PREFERENCE FOR INDIVIDUALS COMING FROM CERTAIN COUNTRIES THAT WE KNEW WERE SAFE OR THAT WE FELT MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT GOT CHANGED IN ABOUT 1965 WE STARTED CHANGING FOR PREFERE giving preference to family members instead of where they come from.

0:39:37 Matt: Try 60.

0:39:53 Clip: That created the potential disaster that we're starting to see now, because what would happen is you would give preference to somebody who's here, who's a citizen or an LPR, and says, hey, I want my brothers, I want My sisters, I Want my family here, my children, fathers, and we widened and we gave them more and more latitude to do it. And what happened is we started forgetting some of the the countries that were incredibly dangerous to Americans. So what did they do? They came in under that preference for families, and they started developing pockets of communities. And that's what you see in Minneapolis and

0:39:47 Matt: More comfortable with. Can you believe it?

0:40:29 Clip: Detroit and outside of those. At the same time, we were easing up the regulations on who gets to come into the country. We were also tightening down on who we could get rid of. And people have been screaming about this for decades, Will. This is the kind of thing that we knew was going to be a powder keg and now we're seeing it and they're starting to light those fuses brent I'm so glad you brought up the 1965 immigration national

0:40:30 Matt: That never happened before.

0:40:49 Thomas: White powder cake. Oh,

0:40:49 Matt: Okay. Yeah. We can stop it here. They're going to go on and on about how ridiculous it is that we bring people in through family. These are conservatives, allegedly, right? And the Fox host is going to just marvel at the fact that about 70 % of our immigration is through family, as is common through most countries. And that was the intent of the 65 Act, was because with the a quota system, you had people that just wanted to come try the country out. At least we could have people that had connections to the country if they're coming through family.

0:41:15 Thomas: . . .

0:41:16 Matt: And I should point out before we get much further that it was the restrictionists who begged for the family thing to make it family -based because they were very concerned. Otherwise, if we lifted the quotas that we would just get people randomly coming here. And we'll talk about how they kind of went back and forth. But the talking points now, what they're trying to do is they're to make it sound like the 1965 Act was some kind of woke lefty civil rights thing. It was not. It was not at all. Because first of all, everybody understood it was embarrassment that we had a race -based system in the 60s when we're trying to fight the Cold War, but also because it did actually allow us to create a skills -based employment visa system, which also came with the family -based -system. But the promise was, to the restrictionists, the idea was, if we just limit it to close family, then that means we'll get more Europeans because there's was lots of Europeans already here. But they didn't factor in the fact that Europe was doing pretty well by 1965 and onward, and there weren't a lot of people. It's kind of like the peak of Europeans wanting to come here. So interesting kind of consequences from the 1965 bill, which was passed by people that weren't particularly lefty or interested in diversity, on the promise that it wouldn't create a lot diversity. LBJ said specifically that the 1965 Act would not be a revolution, that it would not change our ethnic makeup. Ted Kennedy said the same

0:42:29 Matt: Thing when he he was speaking about it. Let's go to the next piece here. Next picture.

0:42:34 Thomas: Is it in the next slide, or are we done with this?

0:42:36 Matt: That's what I meant. Yeah. We're good with Brett Tolman. All

0:42:38 Thomas: I didn't hear any bad math. You can't tease bad math and then not do it.

0:42:41 Matt: He just said it was 40 years ago and it's actually 60. They changed it. I meant to highlight that.

0:42:45 Thomas: I thought it was going to be some immigration math. Okay, I

0:42:47 Matt: So now that we know all of that, we can read our piece. And so let's take a look at John Daniel Davidson. And now we have the information that you need, or at least a lot of it, to understand how ridiculous this is. May 15th.

0:42:58 Thomas: Doubt we needed it, but yeah, sure.

0:43:00 Matt: It helps.

0:43:01 Lydia: John Daniel Davidson, we talked about him last back in September when he wrote a piece called Chart.

0:43:08 Thomas: I just got a pop-up ad this is important alito by molly hemingway who

0:43:11 Matt: Molly Hemingway's Alito. Yes, I'm going

0:43:12 Lydia: Molly Hemingway, who we've also done one of her pieces on this show. She's a writer for The Federalist editor.

0:43:15 Thomas: Is that the

0:43:16 Matt: To have to read this. Honestly, if Molly Hemingways wants to come on and defend this book, I would talk to Molly Hemmingway. I might actually just ask her to come in the show.

0:43:21 Thomas: Justice who reshaped the supreme court okay and restored the constitution sure sure I

0:43:27 Matt: It looks like a great book. I can't wait to read it.

0:43:29 Lydia: Not enough flags on that cover. Like I need a

0:43:31 Matt: Yeah, that's right.

0:43:31 Thomas: Guess I don't get enough profile of him in profile because I didn't know he had like a chin implant that's a wow

0:43:35 Lydia: Bulbous

0:43:36 Matt: It's Cheyenne Chen.

0:43:36 Lydia: Chin. Yeah. Yeah.

0:43:38 Matt: Okay. So, Jenny Levinson.

0:43:40 Lydia: So John Daniel Davidson, we last spoke about him in September, which folks might remember was when Charlie Kirk was assassinated. And he wrote a piece that we covered. Charlie Kirk's assassination should herald the end of the American left. Yeah, it was good times. It was good time.

0:43:54 Thomas: Did that happen in the same way that the white people are extinct also the american left is gone ever since that article oh

0:44:02 Lydia: Yes, yeah. But he writes a lot for over at The Federalist. So I'm sure we'll be talking about him again sometime after this as well. Well, but today it's long past time to scrap Hart's cellar and insist that immigrants assimilate from John.

0:44:04 Matt: We had it coming. Okay.

0:44:20 Lydia: One of the stubborn realities hanging.

0:44:22 Thomas: Did we do that hold on let's this subheading here yeah

0:44:24 Lydia: Subheading. Our immigration regime is a relic of 1960s liberalism based on the fatuous, fatuous notion that anyone from anywhere can become an American.

0:44:34 Thomas: Yeah so we've done that we've done the thing they keep every time they pretend to appeal to something from the past there don't mean it like because it before it was always like look I I don't I I I love martin luther king and he's great but now they've gone too far and now they're like you know martin Luther King went too far you know and they don't keep going now Now it's a 1960s liberalism.

0:45:00 Thomas: That was too far. The stuff that happened in the 60s that we all have counted on as some of the best progress in terms of guaranteeing civil rights in a long time, that was too long ago. That was way too far now. They're going to keep pulling back. You can't give them a fucking inch because every single time, next the 20s will be too far, you know, those liberals from the 20's. They were just, yeah,

0:45:23 Matt: Well, look,

0:45:24 Lydia: And it should be transparent. But for whatever reason, it's taken a long time, I think, for a lot of people to pick up on this. But like, yeah, it is just.

0:45:24 Matt: They've already chipped away at the Voting Rights Act, Civil Rights Act Fair Housing Act, all the great products of the 60s, right? So they're coming straight for the Immigration Nationality Act. And again, the idea that I mean, it was signed by LBJ, obviously, there were a lot of liberals behind it, but it was very much a bipartisan thing. And it was a very much bipartisan understanding that racial quotas were were embarrassing and bad.

0:45:48 Matt: So remember, the whole time what he's talking about is restoring or at least defending racial -based quotas.

0:45:48 Lydia: One of the stubborn realities hanging over all our immigration debates, whether about ICE arrests and deportations, asylum reform, border security, even H -1B visas, is that America today has a sclerotic immigration regime whose basic structure and premises were set down 61 years ago in the Hart -Celler Act of 1965. 1965. It's not too much to say that Hartzellar is one of the most destructive laws ever passed in this country, and we will never solve our immigration problems until we get rid of it. Hartzallar replaced a system based on national origins that favored immigration from Northern and Western Europe, the so -called national origins formula devised in the 1920s, with one based on family reunification and employment needs in certain industries.

0:46:38 Matt: So I would actually write that sentence almost exactly the same way. I mean, that's factually correct. But Goose meme, what was the formula based on, John?

0:46:46 Thomas: Yeah.

0:46:46 Lydia: Yeah.

0:46:46 Matt: The national origins formula devised in the 1920s and favored immigration from Northern and Western European. Why did it do that? Why?

0:46:52 Thomas: Why?

0:46:53 Lydia: Right.

0:46:53 Matt: Right. That's very important here. And then the idea that it's inherently bad. And again, it's just amazing to hear conservatives to talk about this because, again, I remember the 90s when they were talking about family values and family unification and how we have to keep the family together. And now the idea that family unification is the basis of our immigration system is disgusting to them because it's the wrong kind of families.

0:46:53 Thomas: How long do you think? I would say we're about two years from the articles just being racism is good.

0:47:15 Matt: Yeah, basically.

0:47:16 Lydia: Honestly.

0:47:17 Matt: That's what the Timcast episode was.

0:47:18 Thomas: It'll be pretty close. Yeah, we're almost there.

0:47:20 Lydia: And then, like, why is it bad employment needs in certain industries? Like, I mean, that's like why why would Republicans have a problem with that? That's taking care of care of, you know, like your corporations and your capitalist daddies and stuff. So, like I don't know.t really know why he's pushing against that.

0:47:34 Thomas: Well, maybe he'll see it say it's because back then, you know, that's changed. The industries have changed or something. I don't know.

0:47:40 Lydia: The practical effect of this change was to shift immigration away from Europe to Asia and Latin America, reshaping the demographics of the country in a single generation, despite the insistence of Hartzellers authors that it would do no such thing. But at the heart of the legislation was an assumption that immigrants from northern and western Europe were no more desirable than immigrants from the Philippines or Guatemala or anywhere else. In essence, the new law codified an

0:48:02 Thomas: He says criticizing that sentiment, I guess. I don' t know.

0:48:09 Lydia: Assertion of multiculturalism, the liberal belief that assimilation to American society had no real cultural component and that the entire concept of assimilation was racist and backwards.

0:48:18 Thomas: I d on't think that's true. Like what?

0:48:21 Matt: And that's, again to remind you, the explicit provision that was given to the restrictionists to be sure that the kinds of people that came in would assimilate and would would integrate was that we're going to have them bring their families because you're much more likely to join the culture and the society if you're living with family and not just coming here to try things out. And yeah, that was a goal.

0:48:37 Thomas: I'm pretty sure back then they would have wanted or thought everyone was going to assimilate. This wasn't there. They weren't

0:48:43 Matt: Absolutely.

0:48:43 Thomas: Super cool.

0:48:44 Matt: Right. And taking

0:48:44 Lydia: I think there's also something to be said for like when you have like a support network, and this is the case for anything, right? Like human beings like do better when they have community and are like more productive members of society. Like they're less likely to engage in crime. They're more likely to do X, Y, and Z, right. And so like why wouldn't you want that to be the case that people are not just lone wolves like hanging out by themselves with no no one to talk to, why wouldn't you want them to have community? That's crazy.

0:49:09 Matt: Our women, apparently.

0:49:15 Lydia: Apparently, yeah.

0:49:16 Matt: And also in the Fox clip, they're talking about how immigrants are forming these clusters, like immigrant enclaves. That's anything any immigration historian or policy person knows. Just basic history here. We've always had immigrant enclaves. Every ethnicity, every country, you have little hubs that people come from, and then they spread out into the rest after getting on their feet here. Just how it always works everywhere.

0:49:35 Lydia: Often it's like it's amplified by racism too. Like it's amplified by xenophobia and people not wanting them to be in their neighborhoods. So you're asking someone to assimilate when you're not allowed to be here

0:49:45 Thomas: Well hold on I I just realized look I think they're right I think that people shouldn't be isolated by race I think we should um everybody we should like redistribute every you know like school systems everything it shouldn't just be like there's the white schools and the other racist school like we should just mix it all up it should just be totally they're totally right There can't be such a thing as an all white community with like an all white private school or a well -funded school system. They're totally right. We need to spread it around. Can't just have all the people in one spot.

0:50:08 Lydia: There you go

0:50:24 Thomas: It's segregation. You know, that's a good word for it. It's like we're segregated by race. And they're saying we shouldn't be like that. It's not good.

0:50:22 Lydia: Yep we should integrate yeah

0:50:33 Thomas: Yeah, there should be. There you go. That's another good word. There should be integration. Fire up the buses. I agree with them. Mm -hmm they're like no no no hold on white people get to be with just white people but everybody else can't be with their people yeah they have

0:50:35 Lydia: And that would help assimilation if you integrate yeah

0:50:49 Matt: They have to assimilate. Yeah. But

0:50:51 Lydia: You need to act like you're white without being white

0:50:52 Matt: Not with white people.

0:50:52 Thomas: To assimilate you but not toward me don't assimilate over here let's assimilate somewhere else yep

0:50:56 Matt: There's some... this paragraph is really going to come home strong here.

0:51:01 Lydia: Was no reason under this view that immigrants from Europe would be preferable to immigrants from Africa. Understood in this light, remaking the demographics of the country by increasing third world immigration was the entire point, in italics, of Hartzeller.

0:51:14 Matt: I promise. I promise it was not the entire point of Ritz -Seller. I've been reading about it for 20 years. Uh, it was very much to encourage more European immigration by allowing Europeans to bring their families. And also because we, we understood at that point, there was still a complete ban basically on, on immigration from Asia. And that was just wrong. You can't do that. You Can't just say there's a whole part of the world you can't come from.

0:51:18 Thomas: Man it

0:51:33 Matt: Uh and also there was the other interesting issue he doesn't mention here, which was that there were no restrictions for Western hemisphere. So basically anybody from Latin America could come here pretty freely. And that was very good for farm labor and for seasonal workers. And then when we started imposing that, it basically created the concept of undocumented immigration, because we didn't really have that from Western Hemisphere the way that we do now.

0:51:52 Lydia: That regime is still what we live under. The 1990 Immigration Act modified Hartzell slightly by creating the H -1B visa program and adding a diversity lottery to increase immigration from, quote, underrepresented countries. But other than that, the immigration system established in 1965 remains largely intact.

0:52:10 Matt: Kind of true, kind of not. But I want to point out the diversity visa, because the diversity lottery obviously is a big bugbear for these people. It's only 55,000 visas a year. That's of a, you know, diversity is a bad word, obviously. And so the purpose of it, right,

0:52:26 Thomas: It's exactly like with the college admissions we're like hey you can't look at diversity at all you're doing it for like three kids meanwhile there's a hundred percent of them are legacy admissions but like there's like three black kids and we can't have that that's

0:52:39 Matt: And that actually, so the diversity piece, it was a really good idea to make sure that we could bring in people from parts of the world that didn't have anybody here really, it wasn't very well represented. And they could learn more about us, we could learn about them, like just kind of keeping us in touch with the rest of the World. And then they could start bringing people from places that weren't coming here. It's a great idea.

0:52:55 Thomas: That's how we brought that whole island tribe that

0:52:59 Matt: That's right, that's right. That he made That he made up.

0:52:59 Thomas: Eats people and smears feces on them

0:52:59 Lydia: And smears feces all of themselves.

0:53:02 Thomas: Yeah they're down the street they've got their own little enclave

0:53:04 Lydia: Their own little neighborhood.

0:53:05 Matt: Yeah, that's But I didn't know though, I just want to mention about when he's saying about when it's expanded because of under -representation, Ted Kennedy actually had promised that the 1965 Act would help to make sure that we had enough Irish and Italians because there was a concern about that. And it turns out there are a lot of Irish and Italian people here that didn't have close relatives. It had just kind of come over under the quota and didn't have like they had maybe an aunt or uncle or grandparent, but those people can't file for you under -chain migration, as they call it. They're not close enough. So there were a bunch of people suddenly that were about to become undocumented or undocumented, or they couldn't bring their families.

0:53:37 Matt: Rather, it's more to the point. So Ted Kennedy actually introduced a bill. This is kind of funny to think about now, but he increased the allotment for underrepresented countries, which included Ireland and Italy by that point, to make sure that diversity visa included Irish people, which again, I love Irish people, obviously, but that's a weird thing to think about it.

0:53:48 Thomas: Thank god yeah got some I'm not a big fan no I'm just kidding

0:53:56 Lydia: I think Matt has to say that living in Boston, otherwise he's going to get murdered.

0:53:59 Matt: Speaking of old -timey racism, keep yourself

0:54:02 Thomas: I don't know I might I have no idea what my family is I think I'm gonna accidentally adopt adopt a faux racism against them, though. That'll be funny.

0:54:10 Matt: Out. All right, let's keep going.

0:54:12 Lydia: For a long time, it was considered bigoted and and racist to criticize this regime, or even to suggest that America had a problem with immigration. After all, were we not a, quote, nation of immigrants? No national politician or major candidate, Republican or Democrat, would dare to criticize Hartzeller or suggest that it had not worked out well for the native population of this country.

0:54:31 Thomas: Matt, I don't know anything. There's no fucking way that's true. I'm sorry. I know nothing. That can't be true. Nobody, nobody criticized it. Nobody dared criticize. There's not a single thing in American politics that's that.

0:54:37 Matt: I mean, honestly, but it hasn't really been. I mean I'm honestly a little surprised that it has taken this long, but It's like your Pat Buchanan's and other kind of extreme right people in the past that were saying let's abolish the family system. Everybody pretty understood him.

0:54:54 Thomas: Well, OK, I guess if they're saying, yeah, I guess if you're saying maybe I should correct that. If he's saying that, like, nobody is doing what I'm doing now, which is saying, hey, we should go back to the a quota system I guess okay yeah to take it in that context everybody was like yeah okay it's obviously better than even the the people in the clan hoods were like yeah it's better than that like it's in what

0:55:04 Matt: Nobody's doing that. No, exactly. Yes. Yeah. Right. Yeah,

0:55:14 Lydia: Over immigration was restricted to arguing about the right balance to strike between border security and mass amnesty for illegal immigrants. As recently as 2013, large numbers of congressional Republicans wanted to sign an amnestied deal that would grant citizenship to millions of illegal immigrants in exchange for hazy promises of, quote, securing the border. No one was willing to admit what seemed obvious, that Hartzell had been a disaster for the United States.

0:55:39 Thomas: Fucking way in what measurable way

0:55:42 Lydia: Yeah, examples? John, do we get some examples?

0:55:43 Matt: No, it's true. He's not really going to tell you. You know the ones, you know the ways. That's basically what it is.

0:55:50 Thomas: Here it's this shooting or something that we can plaster all over everywhere yeah

0:55:52 Lydia: So lazy.

0:55:54 Matt: There's too many people that don't look like me is the disaster.

0:55:57 Lydia: And it's crazy too, like that's a prime opportunity for them to link to their own articles, like for him to not even bother doing is just laziness.

0:56:02 Matt: That's true and I will point out the 2013, but it is kind of amazing to think 13 years ago that that many Republicans were willing to sign on to a pretty generous bill. It wasn't bad. But it would have overhauled in many ways, though, the Hartzell Act. He's not really being honest about that. And it would introduce a point system, which we've talked about before, for both skilled and unskilled tracks. But that's a whole other thing. Let's keep going.

0:56:10 Thomas: They got close what

0:56:24 Lydia: It was in that context that Donald Trump burst onto the scene in 2015. His slogans of

0:56:29 Thomas: The fuck is that

0:56:30 Matt: Oh, there's a thunderstorm here. You're getting a nice Boston thunderstorm. Yeah.

0:56:33 Thomas: Jesus Christ that was incredibly

0:56:35 Matt: I think

0:56:35 Thomas: Loud I heard that earlier, I was like, is something happening? It might be, okay, so yeah, wow

0:56:39 Lydia: Make

0:56:40 Matt: God has some opinions about this piece, apparently.

0:56:46 Lydia: America great again and build the wall, captured the mood of the country on

0:56:50 Thomas: Man, alright, we were all fucking here we get it, I

0:56:51 Lydia: Immigration and expressed what no major candidate had ever been willing to say. It didn't even matter that Trump's focus was on illegal immigration rather than the larger legal immigration system.

0:56:52 Matt: We looked through this.

0:57:01 Lydia: He broke the taboo on our immigration discourse by calling into question the multiculturalist assumption that mass immigration from the third world was good for Americans. The unspoken assumption at the heart of Trump's immigration rhetoric was that bringing in people who are unsuited to or uninterested in assimilation is actually bad for our country and makes us all worse off.

0:57:00 Thomas: Think it did actually, it was not unspoken, you

0:57:20 Matt: He said it. He said it, yeah.

0:57:20 Thomas: Spoke it a lot, and all

0:57:22 Matt: From seconds

0:57:23 Thomas: You assholes did too

0:57:24 Lydia: We've heard this a lot.

0:57:24 Matt: Into his opening speech, yes. Couldn't miss it.

0:57:27 Thomas: Some of them I'm sure are great people, yeah

0:57:29 Lydia: Yeah. Ten years on, the immigration debate has been transformed, helped immensely by the massive wave of uncontrolled illegal immigration Democrats unleashed under the Biden administration. Today, talk of assimilation, which would have been unthinkable in the pre -Trump GOP, is more or less mainstream on the right. Even the concept...

0:57:46 Matt: It was very thinkable, I'm sorry.

0:57:48 Thomas: Yeah, what the fuck are you talking about dude this is weird I'm having a I mean this is like uh you know midlife crisis type thing I'm realizing that this guy is describing 10 years ago like it isn't now and I'm realizing like oh that's this how old is isn't this one of the youngins I'm I I

0:57:50 Matt: Extremely thinkable. Yeah. No he's one of the older guys, but right.

0:58:07 Thomas: But uh just maybe for the young reader or something like we were all there I don't understand this this is weird to me I'm realising like as I was in my 20s and 30s I would read stuff that would describe stuff from 10 years ago and go like oh thanks for telling me I didn't really pay attention now I'm like what are you talking about dude I was there and it wasn't this so has information always been this bad I guess is what I'm asking yeah

0:58:21 Lydia: This is yeah well well I think think about too though like the the voting demographics of gen z right like so he he kind of is talking to a like potentially a lot of gen z men who are significantly younger and were not around for trump 1 .0 at least not they weren't a voting age at that point in time right so I think there is that

0:58:46 Thomas: And also trying to just like re uh uh ret you know retcon the history into what he he needs it to be I guess

0:58:51 Lydia: Yeah for sure it's

0:58:54 Matt: Well, yeah, do it for the 20s, do for the 2010s too, why not? But I want to say, though, he is right in the sense that, like, I have been really tracking this. In the last 10 years, Republican, mainstream, moderate Republican talking points in immigration have really shifted, like from the George W.

0:58:56 Thomas: Oh

0:59:07 Matt: Bush era to now, quite a lot. Like, a lot of the stuff that he's talking about and that you're hearing the Tim Kass thing, like that would have been like extreme Pat Buchanan, like hardcore stuff that the regular party wouldn't have touched. So he's right about that.

0:59:06 Thomas: Of course yeah of course yeah I

0:59:16 Lydia: Like an overton window sort of situation well

0:59:17 Thomas: Think that I think the thing he's wrong it's not that it hasn't changed I think he's He's trying to make, he's glorifying what it was a little too much. Like it was, there was also still racism and talk of assimilation and all that, like everything he's saying, but whatever, it's fine. I

0:59:32 Lydia: And he's like lionizing trump too as part of this right like this is almost like like brown nosing trump a little bit like his role you know in making

0:59:37 Thomas: Don't even know what the point of this is. Like, what is the point? What is the part of this in his article? Like, hey, they were, they wouldn't even touch this 10 years. Okay. What does that, that, what does that mean?

0:59:40 Lydia: This yeah word count I don't know even

0:59:48 Matt: Yeah. Well, there's a huge red flag or like a signifier in this next sentence I want to point out.

0:59:54 Lydia: The concept of remigration that recent immigrant arrivals legal and illegal must go back to their own countries is gaining traction, even in the Trump White House.

1:00:03 Matt: All right. Anybody who uses the word remigration is a white nationalist, is a white supremacist. Like it is a huge telling point because first of all, as you might notice, remigration has not an American word. It actually comes from French. It comes from like hardcore French nationalists. But it is word that has been kicking around. I think we've talked about a show a couple of times. Stephen Miller kind of put it out there as something that we need to do. There's like an office of remigration. I Think they're trying to open in the department of state, I believe.

1:00:27 Matt: But that is a word that has not been associated with mainstream policy thinking at all. And they're trying to bring it in. So it's not even a dog whistle at this point. It's just a whistle you can look for when people use that word. That's not a normal word.

1:00:38 Lydia: Well, so click on that link. I expected it was going to be a federalist piece, them just linking to themselves.

1:00:42 Thomas: That even in the Trump White

1:00:44 Lydia: Yeah, it's from the White House Twitter.

1:00:44 Thomas: House? Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, I remember they used the word.

1:00:48 Matt: We talked about it.

1:00:48 Thomas: I think Trump might have used that word. Yeah.

1:00:51 Lydia: So it crosses out replacement migration and says re -migration.

1:00:55 Matt: Right. They really want to push this word here. And you guys can Google it. I mean, it's just it's a word. It has been used until recently by the wrong people

1:01:02 Lydia: No surprise then that this week, two Republican congressmen, Representative Andy Ogles of Tennessee and Senator Tom Tuberville of Alabama, introduced a bill called the Assimilation Act. Ogle

1:01:13 Thomas: Who are you arguing with? I don't understand what like he's presenting this like you're just describing what's happening. OK. No surprise then. I wasn't surprised. What OK.

1:01:21 Lydia: Said in an ex -Post Thursday that the idea is to, quote, gut the Hart -Celler Act of 1965 as well as scrap provisions of the Immigration Act of the 1990s. The goal of this bill is simple, end replacement migration and ensure American cultural cohesion, end quote.

1:01:37 Matt: Replacement migration again another huge red flag

1:01:41 Thomas: So like Jews will not replace us kind of thing.

1:01:43 Matt: Replaced great replacement theory they're like right on the edges of a great replacement thing of like there's and even with the way he was characterizing the 65 act he's making the 65 Act make it sound like it was like a sneaky secret thing to bring in the third world when that was not at all and it's not what happened but it's not what they wanted to happen at all I can guarantee you that

1:01:49 Thomas: Replacement migration. Well, yeah, because Antifa DEIs were in power back then. You know, they were they were the ones writing all all the bills. So yeah,

1:02:02 Matt: That's right. Ted Kennedy and such. Yeah. Yeah, that's right.

1:02:07 Lydia: As first reported in March when Ogle's proposed the legislation, the bill would indeed dismantle the hard -seller regime. It would end chain migration, which allows immigrants to sponsor relatives in foreign countries for visas, end the H -1B visa program, end the diversity lottery, impose mandatory e -verify to prevent employers from hiring illegals, strengthen public charge rules to make it harder for immigrants to get on welfare, and impose tougher standards for asylum. The bill would

1:02:34 Matt: Most of these are recycled ideas. I just want to point out, we'll talk about them after though.

1:02:37 Lydia: Also introduce a quote, national interest standard for immigration. As Tuberville said in a speech introducing the bill Tuesday on the Senate floor, the bill, quote, says America has a right to set immigration policy in the national interest and that, quote. Legal immigration should place higher value on skilled merit, economic contribution and the ability to succeed without becoming a dependent on the American taxpayers.

1:03:00 Matt: But don't try to bring your mom, please, apparently. So yeah.

1:03:03 Lydia: All of this is common sense and should have been the mainstream position on the right for decades. For fear of being labeled racist, Republicans shied away from talking about assimilation or acknowledging that some cultures and societies are going to produce people who are more inclined and able to assimilate to American society than others.

1:03:19 Thomas: You know, small point, maybe that's partially true, but also genuinely some Republicans used to actually not want to be racist. Like maybe they still were, but they used to just not want, to be, racist. You know, like I know there was a ton of them who were pretending, I get it, but like, not for nothing. Now that we're doing our histories, I will tell you as someone who was alive in the nineties, you used to not want to be racist.

1:03:43 Thomas: That used to be, it's amazing to say, but even Republicans used to gesture at not wanting to be racists in a real way. They weren't, they, and again, they fell short of it, but they, they weren't pretending to not want to be racist. They didn't want to do it. They, they didn't want to, they probably still were is what I'm saying, but like, it was a different time. Like, I don't think everybody was pretending.

1:04:02 Lydia: Shouldn't have taken this long to get here or have been this hard to state the plain truth, but it's a testament to how much what's politically feasible can change when people are are willing to stand up to false accusations of racism. False? I don't know about false.

1:04:16 Thomas: You're not, it isn't false accusations of racism and xenophobia. You're just saying racism and xenophobia are good.

1:04:21 Matt: And you want to go back to a racist visa system. So

1:04:24 Thomas: Just fucking again, in we're another year it'll be racism and xenophobia are good actually will be the articles we're almost there just do it fuck you this is what you think false accusations that racism and xenophobia great all right

1:04:40 Matt: We're fine. Yeah yeah.

1:04:33 Lydia: And simply say the thing everyone already knows, that immigration without assimilation is national suicide, and it's long past time we had an immigration system that recognized that. John Daniel Davidson.

1:04:52 Matt: Great work, John. So, yeah, this is again, Again, one of these sort of intellectual, the more intellectual version, allegedly, of the TimCast thing we saw. It's all the same shit. It's the same thing. And I want to talk a little bit about what this bill actually is, because it's bad. It's very, very bad.

1:05:08 Thomas: Taking our last break and then we'll get to that in the remaining time we have so we gotta thank our top patrons the number well the top top third. Thank you to Mark Schultz, ET. Check out, oh, this looks new. Have we seen this? Check out www .gal, let's see, gal in a comic. No, galena, galenacomic. I'm not sure because it's all one word. G -A -L -E -N -A, then comic .com for a cool web comic.

1:05:35 Lydia: I see it. I see it.

1:05:37 Thomas: All right. Bob Loblaw's Law Podcast. Philly Basement Bar is currently closed for spring cleaning and reorganizing. When are you opening Philly Basement Bar. It's been a while, you know?

1:05:44 Lydia: Yeah. It's almost summer.

1:05:46 Thomas: Yeah. Elect Thomas Smith President, American Hockey Talk Bar Association. Balta Kitei, Philip Kaiser. Under Biden, I could only fit $100 of groceries in a bag, but thanks to Trump, I can now fit $150 of groceries into the same bag. Yeah. Corinne Lann, a string of unpronounceable characters. Malika Chandler, runofthedork .com. Milo Meadsong is fighting petty tyrants. Big Easy Blasphemy, me chris waltrip sam denow fred r growthiest classic libtard and mitchell our top top top patron mitchel thank you so much everyone and we will take our last break and then get to that uh bill awfully racist bill

1:06:23 Matt: Right. So as we're getting into Hart -Celler summer, I just want to tell you about what this bill is. Now, we don't have the full text of the bill yet. We have had it teased. They're kind of laundering it through Fox News. They gave a draft to Fox News so they could report on it, which is the story you're seeing here. We know basically what's going to be in it. And it's the most extreme piece of legislation, I think, for immigration ever introduced in a serious way by Andy Ogles. Um and I think just let's read the uh summary here aka

1:06:47 Lydia: Ogles' bill would reverse key portions of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965, colloquially known as the Hart -Celler Act after its two main backers in Congress. The landmark bill reversed longstanding immigration quotas that overwhelmingly favored people from Northern and Western Europe, leading to more migration pathways for people from Asia, Latin America, Africa, as well as places like Eastern Europe.

1:07:10 Matt: Migration pathways because they didn't exist before yeah it

1:07:13 Lydia: It established a system that favored family reunification, refugees, and people with specific skills deemed beneficial to the U .S. economy. Ogles himself previously called for repealing Hartzellar, posting on X in December 2025, quote, the Hartzeller Act scrapped the highly effective national origins quota system and replaced it with an immigration regime built to favor third world migration.

1:07:34 Matt: Was not but uh I will point out too that he has repeatedly used the phrase you can go to the next one yeah he's repeatedly used to phrase make america look like america again just in case you have any doubt what he's trying to do with this yeah yeah I I can't I don't know we don't have time to unpack it phrases

1:07:43 Thomas: Does that mean but these are false accusations

1:07:45 Lydia: Just say it. Just like, yeah.

1:07:47 Thomas: Of racism and xenophobia yeah

1:07:49 Lydia: Honestly, I would have more respect for you if you would just say it, like say what you actually mean.

1:07:50 Matt: Here's

1:07:54 Thomas: They pretty much are why do they still pretend it's false allegations. It's not false allegations.

1:07:56 Matt: The uh official statement here

1:08:00 Lydia: Yeah, and to be clear, I would have like zero respect as opposed to negative respect. So like, there's still like, don't don't get don't get it twisted, guys.

1:08:01 Matt: Is yeah right exactly just because you can baseline yeah so

1:08:09 Lydia: I don't like these people.

1:08:05 Thomas: Shut

1:08:10 Matt: Here's the ogles x post uh which is worth reading just to give you you know just in case there's any question about legislative intent troops

1:08:16 Lydia: The Hart -Celler Immigration Act of 1965 in in conjunction with the Immigration Act of 1990, is the most recent declaration of war Congress has ever passed. God, drama queen.

1:08:26 Thomas: The fuck up. God. Oh

1:08:30 Lydia: Not only did this legislation declare war on American culture, but it has also been sending foreign troops to every American community to steal their jobs, erase their religion, and infiltrate their schools.

1:08:40 Thomas: Dude. Yeah.

1:08:44 Lydia: I am preparing a monumental bill that That repeals Hart -Celler, ends the H -1B visa scam, ends chain migration, and creates a whole new character -based system that would make America look like America again. The Assimilation Act is how we can save our culture and secure our country.

1:09:01 Matt: And then you see that response there

1:09:02 Thomas: You know what he's not doing? Giving a shit about declaring war for the actual war that Trump is doing.

1:09:05 Matt: That's right the most recent declaration of war congress has passed that's very funny actually making

1:09:09 Thomas: He doesn't care that they're not doing this one, but okay. Okay.

1:09:12 Matt: That point uh yeah you should check out the response too from a well -known white nationalist yeah

1:09:17 Lydia: Yeah. Wesley Todd, and in parentheses, sensible moderate.

1:09:18 Thomas: Sensible. Yeah.

1:09:20 Lydia: Thank you, Representative Ogles. America must maintain her christian and european identity wow

1:09:27 Matt: Stuff that would not have been unacceptable to say out loud, very rightfully, pretty recently. So I want to point out the things he's teasing here that he was going to put in here. They're claiming it's going to end birthright citizenship, which Congress can't do. That is a fundamental constitutional right in the 14th Amendment. So it's gonna go up to court, obviously, if they actually pass this thing.

1:09:27 Thomas: Shut up. Yeah, only the Supreme Court can decide to do that sometime if they want to.

1:09:46 Matt: And as we've looked at in the last section, we've pretty much ended chain migration or what they call, and I hate, I just call it family -based migration or family migration, because that's what it is. Chain migration sounds like it's not made out of people, which it is, is um yeah exactly anything to use objects describe immigrants is probably not the best language to use um but we've effectively ended chain migration we were only looking at the one category for brothers and sisters but like adult children of u .s citizens from many countries are waiting decades as well like just people that you would you would think would get to come here pretty quickly um

1:09:58 Lydia: It's very dehumanizing yeah yeah yeah yep

1:10:15 Thomas: Just that we can we can hold more fucking people assholes. We can hold more people you talk about the birth rate you talk to other whatever you're just racist.

1:10:19 Matt: We have capacity yep yeah

1:10:23 Thomas: I think it would be great to have more people aren't we worried about like fucking China and stuff like wouldn't it just be good to have More people and have especially to have talented people skilled people, smart people. I want everyone to want to come here. That's how you have the best country. If you, if everybody wants to come in right now, no one wants to fucking come here because it's horrible and racist and we're losing talent. We're losing like, you know, college applicants don't want to Come here. What do you think is going to be the future?

1:10:29 Matt: Got space and

1:10:49 Thomas: Unbelievable.

1:10:48 Lydia: Yeah no

1:10:49 Matt: A system that takes 160 years to bring somebody here is not a system. It just doesn't exist. It's nothing. And in the Timcast thing, again, there's so many clips I could have played, but they all agreed basically at one point that they would rather have what they called automization. I think they meant automation. They kept saying automization over and over again. But they would Rather have fully automatized factories or whatever they were saying and data centers than bring another single Indian person over. Yeah, that's what they're trying to say. They just kept saying automation.

1:11:10 Thomas: Automated. Just okay. Automation. Organization.

1:11:15 Matt: And it's not even a word. But They agreed that they Would rather have that. They'd have a limited American American jobs, then bring a single more Indian person over. Yeah. Because they can't stand the idea of any immigrants doing any kind of high tech work. Yeah, so that's where they're coming from. It's all I mean, speaking of national suicide.

1:11:22 Thomas: What fucking

1:11:28 Lydia: Ridiculous yeah

1:11:30 Thomas: Losers, goddamn fucking losers. How much of a loser do you have to be to be? I don't even think about it. I don'T think about IT. You don't, it's like, you just go about your life. There's people talk to them, you know, or don't. I DON'T talk to anybody, but it doesn't matter. Yeah. It's like you know what are you worried about? What do you what's what's the the fucking problem yeah

1:11:44 Lydia: I was gonna say

1:11:49 Matt: You're I mean the answer is you're the kind of loser who fills in for Tim Pool is on vacation. So it's pretty easy.

1:11:55 Thomas: It's just so pathetic fucking crybabies so terrified of non -white people

1:11:59 Matt: Yeah. But this is extreme stuff. And I want to point out because we talked about the RAISE Act, you and I, and we had some fun with it actually back when, like two years ago, when we talked to about the point system and how you would maybe not qualify under the point system that they were trying to set up, where it was basically just favoring Nobel winners and Olympic athletes and the most talented people you could possibly imagine instead of just regular people or regular workers. The RAISE act looks pretty good compared to what we're seeing of this proposal. And that was nine years ago. We are coming a long way in the wrong direction. Um, you know, this is about as extreme as anything I've ever seen seriously proposed and, and Andy Ogles is not a serious person, but I think a lot of Republicans are gonna get behind this and you're going to start to hear this rhetoric. That's why I want to do this today. Cause we're getting ahead of the curve here. You're goingto start to here, Hartzeller, Hartzzeller, Heartzeller 1965, you know, it's not working for our needs or whatever. And there's gonna be a bunch of lying about the history of 1965 act. So I want bring

1:12:26 Thomas: Man

1:12:48 Matt: Out the real stuff.

1:12:48 Thomas: As a kid I never understood when you read and be like well and then there's you know in the senate in the house there's these like klansmen you're like how how like as a kid I was just like how were they allowed I don't understand it you just had there's

1:13:00 Lydia: They should be shamed out of the world

1:13:02 Thomas: No way you just back then they had just like plain racists who were like, I want the racist thing. And then it's like, oh no, we still have that. Still have that,

1:13:08 Matt: It's representative democracy. That's what you get.

1:13:08 Lydia: Don't you think like for all these people I just think about like these these four white men on timcast covering this and they really really don't like immigrants that that much that like I feel that they need to to then only be allowed to eat like boiled potatoes, boiled chicken, only

1:13:26 Thomas: You should only get to eat. Hey, here's how we, real talk, yes and, and this is a policy I brought up before, here is how we fix the world. You are only allowed to eat the food of whatever your stupid culture is, white people. You are only allowedto use any medicine if you accept all medicine.

1:13:27 Lydia: The food of your ancestors, right? Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

1:13:43 Thomas: If you acceptall medical science as the way to go you get that same with science same with all science you can if you accept science you get to use science you don't goodbye cell phone goodbye roads or goodbye cars goodbye everything everything is from science really we'd have to draw some lines you can yeah you can make your own fucking you know wagon somewhere if you want and you have some horses fine go nuts but you don't get any of the benefits of science if you don't accept science and each enjoy your fucking potato yeah

1:13:46 Lydia: Then you can pop your Advil. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Goodbye, buy gas powered ovens yeah yep yep no

1:14:10 Matt: Speaking of, there's a post I wanted to include, I'll just say very quickly, that mentioned that in 1965, they were trying to preserve traditional American foods, such as hamburgers and pizza, neither of which are American food. It's amazing. It's incredible. Where did you think this come from? Okay. I mean, yeah,

1:14:27 Thomas: It's also are they are they our fucking kids like only chicken nuggies all we can have

1:14:32 Lydia: And french

1:14:36 Matt: It' s just pizza. It's, I mean,

1:14:36 Lydia: Fries oh

1:14:37 Thomas: Who invented ketchup that's gonna be important if if a white person didn't invent ketchup my kids are fucked their their diet is half 50 to 60 percent ketchup I'd say most of yeah most of what they consume my kids is ketchup actually for

1:14:41 Lydia: They would be man

1:14:46 Matt: White people can't even spell it. So yeah, I think the next slide, we have a quick sneak peek of the bill. He did post like the, but,

1:14:56 Thomas: Some reason it wasn't even

1:14:54 Lydia: Place of origin united kingdom

1:14:58 Thomas: Going to another slide. That was the last slide.

1:15:00 Lydia: Sorry I had to look up ketchup's origin um the the united kingdom is the mushroom variant that's their origination but it is a united states originating food tomato variant

1:15:04 Matt: Cats up, yes.

1:15:14 Thomas: Our kids are safe. Okay.

1:15:15 Matt: And we changed the spelling also to be more realistic. So we've got that going for us.

1:15:18 Thomas: Well, that's fine. Yeah, no, that was the Last Slide, Matt, that I have, unless I need to refresh the...

1:15:22 Matt: Well, that's all right. We didn't just say it. The bill's not out. When it is out, we'll talk about it a little more. But I'm concerned because we're cutting in two midterms. I think that they have understood that ICE enforcement is now very unpopular because people have seen what it looks like, that most people at this point understand that the way that ICE was doing things was really bad and bad for communities and didn't look good. And that was the thing that Donald Trump got elected on twice was the promise of mass enforcement. So now they're going to have to change gears. And I'm not saying mass enforcement still doesn't fly and isn't going to be popular in lots of places, but I think there's a surprising backlash for them and it pulls very badly now. So I think this makes sense as a midterm kind of faint of just like, the economy is obviously gas is going to be twice as expensive. And as our patron said, it's now 150 bucks instead of 100 bucks to get your groceries and everything's getting a lot worse. And we know it because of really ridiculously stupid choices that Donald Trump has made for no reason. So they're going to need some kind of anti-immigrant thing to do. And I'm afraid this is going be it, is saying the 1965 bill was passed by woke liberals and we're going to replace it with fascism.

1:16:23 Thomas: Yeah, I don't think that's going to work. I actually don't think so. I think this kind of thing is for a definitely significant percentage, but I think the people who tend to matter in our stupid system, which is the the uninformed swing state, whatever voters. I mean, it's not as important in the midterms, but I mean kind of depending. But I think the gas prices and the food prices is overwhelmingly going to be what they care about. And so good luck, everybody.

1:16:50 Matt: Sure. Sure. But I'm just saying to bring them back and get them out just to get them voting, you know?

1:16:54 Thomas: I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying. I'm saying I don't think it'll work. Like I think you're right about, yeah, I think

1:16:57 Matt: No, I don't either. Yeah. I think the economy is, yeah. But yeah, could be.

1:17:01 Thomas: This is, they might just be doing it for the love of the racism game, you know. I don'T even know if they think

1:17:06 Matt: Could be the last

1:17:06 Thomas: This will increase voting or not.

1:17:08 Matt: Realistic chance to pass anything like this. Maybe they're just going to try to shove it through and then also trumpet it as a major Trump accomplishment that, you know, he destroyed the immigration system. But I just, and I will note too, that in the RAISE Act that we're talking about, the Tom Cotton bill, they were going to eliminate parent visas and replace them with like a temporary visa where you could bring your parent over occasionally. Which again, you're a Nobel Prize winner, an Olympic athlete. You don't want to bring your mother? Like, is that just, come on, like, how are we going to encourage your immigration that way? They were going to eliminate, I believe, yeah, they were going completely eliminate the sibling visa and make it much harder for everything else. So they were already basically on the way to ending what they called chain migration at the time. I don't know what the specific proposal is here, but I'm sure it's even worse.

1:17:42 Matt: And, you know, it's always very funny too, when they do this stuff and they talk about doing things like adding character requirements and adding income requirements, those are already there. Like they do this all the time, where they were promising this. Oh, yeah,

1:17:54 Lydia: Because people the vast majority of people don't know right so you can characterize it in a way

1:17:57 Matt: Of course.

1:17:57 Thomas: That's over and over. Yeah, that tends to be what's happening. It's not about what's real. It's not about the actual data. Same with taxes. Oh, they should be lower. Really? Do you remember what the fuck they are? Do you know what anyone's paying? You don't know. You just think they should be lower all the time. You think there should be fewer immigrants all the time .You have no fucking idea what's happening because

1:18:11 Matt: On everybody. Right? Well, yeah. I mean, Joe Biden did change the law such that when you're asked, are you a gang member? You have to say yes, because those are the only people we want, obviously. But no, they're claiming they're going to be keeping out more bad people. One thing I did see in the proposal was that they were going to go by arrests and not just convictions, which is obviously deeply unjust. Just. So if you've been arrested for certain offenses, yeah.

1:18:25 Thomas: Gang migration. That's

1:18:33 Lydia: Based

1:18:34 Thomas: Yeah. I'm like a bullshit government that like just arrests dissidents and stuff yeah I

1:18:37 Lydia: Off of color, too. Yeah,

1:18:37 Matt: And disproportionately arrest Black people for certain offences, no question. And they did that with the Lake and Riley Act, as we've discussed, where they expanded mandatory detention to people who've been arrested rather than just convicted. So yeah, that's potentially very dangerous and very bad. So we'll see. We've got to keep a watch on this one, but I wanted to get an early warning.

1:18:57 Thomas: Don't think I'm gonna vote for it I'm not voting for this bill my votes no everybody yeah oh boy matt you always teach us so much every time we do an immigration one every time I think too like oh I'm pretty familiar based on what matt's taught me it's like there's always more to learn about this and how much it's not what anyone thinks it is it's just mainly we don't let people in you know it's pretty pretty much.

1:18:59 Matt: Easy enough, Representative Smith. Glad to hear it.

1:19:05 Lydia: Man. Mm hmm.

1:19:20 Matt: Yeah.

1:19:21 Thomas: It's mostly, you could describe it as that. Like we just don't really let people in. It's all, it's all propaganda. They don't, they aren't basing their views on facts of the world. They're basing the views on the stuff they saw that someone showed them to make them mad, or they are the ones doing that. Uh, it'S just, itS just frustrating, but, uh, all right. Any other, any other thoughts? Are we closing it out for vapid response?

1:19:21 Matt: I really appreciate getting to talk about this. This is stuff I talk about in my class all the time. And I just think these are facts that people should know. Please share the show and get this information out there because Because I don't anymore.

1:19:50 Thomas: When do you have time to teach a class, Matt? The fuck? Yeah. I was going to say, if, if so, I need to know how you need to tell us. Yeah that's true yeah well reach more people that's good share this guys folks seriously because uh people don't know this they think you can just bring in whoever and you know but it's that that quota that website like that's actually sad like I honestly could almost you know I could almost start crying just seeing like oh let me fill out you know let me check the status of it's like never it might as well just be a page on the on the government website that just says says, fuck you.

1:19:54 Lydia: This is the class. Yeah?

1:19:57 Matt: This is the class.

1:20:18 Lydia: Yeah. There's no point. Yeah

1:20:19 Matt: Yeah. Yeah.

1:20:25 Thomas: Like that's, you know, I know that's most of them now, but, but even, but even under like Biden, I'm sure it's like, it's not like it was better because we're so backed up and the law and all that. But, uh, all right, Matt. Uh, thanks so much. Thanks so much listeners. Thanks Lydia. And we'll see you for rapid response Friday.

1:20:36 Lydia: Rough. Hey,

1:20:40 Matt: All right. Thanks.

1:20:46 Clip: This has been Opening Arguments, produced by Thomas and Lydia Smith, with editing help from Peter Baird. The intro is by Thomas Smith. This outro is by Matt Cameron. Support the show at patreon.com/law. Contact us through Patreon or openarguments@gmail.com. Make sure to follow our blue sky at OpenArgs. But most of all, please share the show. Thanks for listening.