U.S. v. Dunn 7 - Another Witness Is Called and the Plot Thinnens

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:25 Thomas: Gavel in, Gavelinos I'm thomas that over there is lydia how you doing ah sandwich jokes so fucking old

0:00:30 Lydia: I ate a sandwich today. So I'm doing well. Going to be every episode of this trial, literally every single episode, I will be talking about sandwiches. And I'm sorry, but that's just what it's going going to be and I sorry hang on I wasn't done I need to explain my sandwich I mean

0:00:42 Thomas: Enough just kidding and fellow sandwich monger matt oh we got oh I to explain my sandwich uh I need you to explain your sandwich you

0:00:56 Lydia: I have described I my my perfect beach hut order as a vegetarian and that is what I ordered today everybody which was uh the California it's the vegetarian sandwich but I get rid of that spinach because it I don't like it on my teeth and I do the lettuce I know not

0:01:08 Thomas: You already said this this has actually already been in the episode. You stop. So every episode we got to refresh on.

0:01:12 Lydia: This episode if anyone's tuning in for

0:01:17 Thomas: Yeah, this may be first time listener. Okay. Reset Lydia's sandwich order.

0:01:18 Lydia: The first time. Yeah, no, so I did my beetroot order that I've talked about before on this show, so I won't get into it again, I guess.

0:01:28 Thomas: Better be a payoff to this story. Did something happen?

0:01:31 Lydia: It was actually not made well today. That's important.

0:01:34 Thomas: All of a sudden you threw it at an officer.

0:01:35 Lydia: The way that they stacked the food in it today and the bread was like the bread was open the wrong way. And it was it was crazy.

0:01:44 Thomas: Anyway, I would like to get to our guest, our Matt Cameron. How are you doing, Matt?

0:01:48 Lydia: Whatever. This is premiere content. Whatever.

0:01:52 Matt: I'm not a sandwich expert today. I've eaten no sandwiches, just more falafel, which I do enjoy.

0:01:55 Thomas: I thought you were going to do, I'll have what she's having.

0:01:59 Matt: Mean, like I this routine. Obviously, we don't go to mass, but this is our mass. We start out with the litany of the sandwiches, the things we've eaten.

0:02:06 Lydia: There you go.

0:02:07 Thomas: Well, I was just thinking, we've talked about Beach Hut, and I will say that if he threw a Beach Hut sandwich, first of all, he'd throw his arm out. Secondly, I think that would be more of a crime. Legal question, there is a threshold of sandwich at which this is more of a crime right like there's a weight threshold or yeah once it weighs as much as a bowling ball like subway is not that yeah

0:02:26 Matt: It's going to cross over to an aggravated, deadly, dangerous weapon at some point. Yeah, I'm to imagine the ingredients that would make it that heavy or that dangerous, but yeah, just rocks.

0:02:37 Thomas: Mainly a bowling bowl

0:02:40 Lydia: Thomas's sandwich order. Yeah a rock sandwich sandwich bowling ball sandwich

0:02:42 Thomas: That's my classic can't order anything else good old rock sandwich nothing beats that for the for the simpsons fan anyway uh we've got some interesting testimony today we are on essentially like chunk three of the day one um getting getting toward the end of day one this how we got some testimony by the officer and eventually we're going to get to the main funny legal thing that's they're trying to do which is like getting in this body cam footage. And the more we go through this, the more I wish I had done like the classic zit face teenager voice for my lawyer. Like it would have been so much better because I think I could have done a reading that's like sound like it's my first day and I'm in high school there and it would fit.

0:03:30 Thomas: It seems to me like I feel like this guy does not know what he's doing.

0:03:30 Lydia: There's there's some funny stuff in this one that's for sure no

0:03:36 Matt: Yeah, we're crossing into our Rashomon. Have you guys seen Rashomon? You know about Rashomon, right, basically?

0:03:39 Thomas: I know the reference.

0:03:41 Matt: Yeah ,I you guys don't like, well, Thomas doesn't like older movies, but it's a great, great film, the Kurosawa.

0:03:44 Thomas: I wouldn't say that exactly.

0:03:46 Matt: Hasn't it come up before? You don't want black and white movies?

0:03:47 Thomas: No, it's not not the black and white acting used to suck and so there's a lot of movies that have bad acting but I some old movies are good yeah yeah those are good you

0:03:55 Matt: Not Kurosawah. No, this stuff is good. But I for our purposes, it's more of a Rai Shomon, of course, or Rai Sho Ham. I don't know. We're going to keep squeezing out the sandwich jokes.

0:04:01 Thomas: Did that for this and it was worth it yeah that was that was worth it like jimmy for stewart is not a good actor like that's not I can't really watch that kind of acting it's nothing he's

0:04:14 Lydia: Yeah I don't know how to feel about that is

0:04:16 Matt: Jimmy Stewart is not a good actor.

0:04:16 Thomas: Him just watch Watch him. He's

0:04:18 Matt: American treasure, Jimmy Stewart. Okay. All right.

0:04:18 Thomas: Not a good actor. He was good at the job of being an actor at that time, but he's not, it's not like real. You don't watch him go like, wow, that guy's really experiencing that. Okay, watch him. Watch him in a movie.

0:04:34 Lydia: All right I will I'll

0:04:35 Thomas: Recently. Yeah, now. Yeah.

0:04:36 Lydia: Be back that's

0:04:33 Matt: Well, anyway, in Rai Shimon, which of course does not feature Jimmy Stewart, but actually is in Japanese. You just have six people talking about a murder that they saw. And of course, they're all telling different stories. This is going to be a slightly different perspective on the extremely dangerous and aggravating crime of throwing the sandwich. This is Going to Be Detective Dana Henry. We're now getting into her direct testimony. She's going to tell the story of her account of that night. And then, as you said, we're going to get into the body cam issue, which I think is pretty interesting and just to go deep in a small, quick trial on this issue. I've got a story out of Massachusetts that might provide some interesting perspective on how bad things can go. So if you let this kind of thing in without laying a foundation, it's pretty bad.

0:05:14 Thomas: Wow. Excited to hear that.

0:05:15 Matt: Yeah, just for comparison, I have to get into Massachusetts law. I don't really have any basis otherwise. I think it's a good point of comparison.

0:05:22 Thomas: Do like your idea of a Rashomon parody that's just them them all telling basically the same facts about a nothing story. That would be really funny. Well, there it was, the sandwich, and he did throw it. It was, yeah, he threw it. Oh, well, the other guy said that too. That kind of ruins the whole bit. Yeah, lots of fun stuff to talk about. And also, I'm going to send a complaint to the transcriptionist because the end of this one started getting really weird, mislabeled stuff. I you know what?

0:05:48 Thomas: You've heard me on the record being like, well I trust the transcriptionists. They do a great job. Rob. I trust them, you know, explicitly, or is that the right word or implicit?

0:05:48 Matt: That a

0:05:57 Thomas: I can't remember one of them.

0:05:57 Matt: Little both yeah

0:05:58 Lydia: Why we sent them all of our money

0:05:59 Thomas: And yeah. And, and I'll be like, well, they must've said that if the transcription is typed, they might've said it. And then we get to this one where undeniably stuff that's not the judge is labeled the judge and vice versa, you Know, and it'll be the witness being like, well, in my courtroom, I, and you're like, I think that's the judge. Not really, but it's, it's like, it got to the point where I'm like, oh, it on, it was a very interesting faith journey, you know, where I went from like, no, they not cannot tell a lie. Those transcriptionists, they're brilliant. Everything they say is right. It must be this to where, once the dam broke, I was like, oh, well now I don't know anything. Yeah.

0:06:18 Lydia: And to that extreme

0:06:32 Thomas: Now I'm, now we're like, did they say that? That doesn't make sense. Maybe we have to fix that.

0:06:30 Lydia: Questioning everything yeah did this

0:06:36 Thomas: So know that's what I'm wondering. It could be, you Know, it could be that partway through they're like this is not worth it. It's not worth my time.

0:06:37 Lydia: Trial even happen yeah one's gonna want this

0:06:44 Thomas: Yeah. No one has ever seen.

0:06:46 Matt: I've already done the fun part I was

0:06:49 Thomas: No one will ever read this uh whoops okay someone ordered it damn it uh yeah so um that was a little interesting uh we had kind of figure some things out do some guesses on nothing huge but like some sentences were like I that doesn't make sense that

0:07:03 Lydia: Do think she'll listen to this

0:07:04 Thomas: Would be funny I don't know how she would know does

0:07:06 Lydia: I mean knows she that we wanted the transcript

0:07:08 Thomas: No not not the show we we used a fake ID.

0:07:10 Matt: I didn't say about four yeah

0:07:11 Lydia: Well no we have she has the she name us

0:07:14 Thomas: She has a name. Yeah. Yeah, he's the patsy. He's gonna go down for this.

0:07:17 Matt: At least yeah she

0:07:20 Lydia: I were the transcriptionist you guys know me I would have been looking this up like why do they want this I'm gonna find out why this person wants this

0:07:26 Thomas: But to her, it was just a lawyer. Well, I guess that is kind of out of the normal, huh?

0:07:30 Lydia: I would want to know

0:07:31 Thomas: A lawyer not involved in sandwich enthusiast. Yeah?

0:07:31 Lydia: Why is this massachusetts lawyer wanting this what's

0:07:32 Matt: Reviewing there's no motions or appeals to be had here like he's he's done, so it is a weird thing to do.

0:07:38 Thomas: That's interesting. Do we get put on a list for this like a sandwich list? Like something's going on. We got sandwich creeps. All right, we're gonna take our first break excuse the show patreon.com/gavelpod and you can get early episodes that happened last time we put out the second episode right away for the patrons and if that were to happen again it'll be right up there for patrons on patreon .org and everyone else has to has to wait, just, just eat a week's worth of sandwiches before you get it. You know? That's a reason to support. All right. We'll take a break and then we'll be back.

0:07:42 Lydia: Man

0:08:19 Thomas: Okay. Uh, Matt, you want to set us up here? Reorient the crowd. Where are we?

0:08:24 Matt: So we're going to be hearing from Dana Henry, as promised at the end of the last episode. She is a DC detective, so a federal employee, but she, of course, like everyone else, has been deputized as a U.S. Marshal for the Safe and Beautiful Task Force. So you might remember from Larimore's testimony that he doesn't remember her being around at the time of the sandwich incident.

0:08:44 Matt: She will testify that she was, I think, across the street or nearby. So we're going to have to establish her witness status.

0:08:48 Lydia: In the subway like we thought when we first talked about this

0:08:52 Thomas: Like she was getting a sandwich. That's funny.

0:08:52 Matt: It was a fair guess,

0:08:52 Lydia: That she was she was hungry

0:08:54 Thomas: I forgot about that detail.

0:08:54 Lydia: And yeah yeah

0:08:54 Matt: But yeah. We're gonna hear a little bit more about the Safe and Beautiful Task Force, about her role on it. I think it's kind of an interesting insight into this moment in history, this thing that was happening. And of course, you know, she's not a vital witness, but she's going to kind of bridge the gap, not only to provide a non -victim testimony of an but also, as we're going to see later, to be able to introduce footage of something that she wasn't there for or saw for herself.

0:09:19 Matt: So we'll get to that when we get to them. But first, we'll start with the Rashomon moment.

0:09:18 Thomas: And that, that's the key. You think they would would have bothered if it weren't for that footage like does she add really anything

0:09:26 Matt: Terms of if you have any doubts about the officer, I think he might be biased about the enormous injury that he suffered, or he's clouding his memory, maybe the PTSD. I guess you've got this outside perspective from Dana and Henry. Makes It sense when you've got another police witness to just just bring her in and confirm that she saw what happened. And then also she testifies about the chase because she was part of that when Dunn went running. So that is relevant too.

0:09:47 Thomas: Yeah all right fair enough well uh this starts off strong

0:09:52 Clip: Counsel, you may proceed. Thank you. The government would call Detective Henry. Very well. You may get the detective. Your Honor, may we have a very brief sidebar? Sure. Go get the witness. We'll do the sidebar. Please put us on the husher. My colleague is in the bathroom. That was my sidebar." Oh.

0:10:13 Matt: So good.

0:10:16 Lydia: My god it's so good

0:10:19 Thomas: You can't be that mad at the transcriptionists you know they they gave us gold like that like pure gold so now

0:10:25 Lydia: Amazing. It's so good. News will not report that because they're not going to have access to that.

0:10:29 Thomas: I love how she was trying to be coy um can I have a uh a sidebar just just a minute I did that because my partner's taking a shit judge is like oh I love the idea of getting the husher and it taking like five minutes to set up or something

0:10:31 Lydia: So good, So good, yes,

0:10:45 Matt: I could totally see this as an to set up and get everybody with their earpieces on.

0:10:52 Thomas: Yeah okay what do you have

0:10:54 Matt: I was going to say, I could totally see this is a Barry Zuckerkorn Arrested Development moment. It's great.

0:10:54 Thomas: To say good times all

0:11:03 Clip: Good afternoon, Detective. Obviously, there is a microphone there, and you see that. Please speak very loudly, very clearly, into the microphone. Counsel, vous may proceed." Thank you, Your Honor. Good afternoon. Good afternoon Could you please introduce yourself for the judge and the jury? My name is Detective Henry, Dana Henry By whom are you employed? The Metro Transit Police What do you do for the Metro Transit? I am a detective How long have you been employed by them? Over ten years As a detective, what are your primary duties? Investigating the cases assigned to me Video review, speak with victims, witnesses, material suspects and the whole array of responsibilities. Prior to being a detective, were you a patrol officer? That's correct. What type of work did you do then? I was on patrol as a uniformed officer. Also spent time on plainclothes details, tactical operations as well. What areas geographically do you generally cover? Anywhere where the buses and trains run. So Montgomery County, the District of Columbia, Arlington, Fairfax, Arlington and also PG County, Maryland. Where is your office physically located? Virginia. Now, directing your attention to August 10th of 2025, were you working that day? I was. And what were you doing? I actually came into work overtime as part of a joint task force that I was notified of via email earlier that afternoon. And what did that entail? Our main goal was to police enforce any infractions or any illegal activity, to be visible, make sure we showed a presence, simply do what we do on a daily basis as an officer. What do you do in preparation for that? And who was with you? So I met my supervisor for that night at the park police headquarters, had to be sworn in and deputized, and then spoke directly with him in regard to what the goal would be for the night. And what was the goal? When I spoke with him, he basically stated that we are to enforce any laws that were broken that night, make sure that we were visible, make sure we were able to just move around the area, walk around the areas, and make sure our presence was shown that night. And were any other transit police officers participating in this? Yes, there was a total of four officers that night. Myself, Officer Fields, Officer Thandy, and a new officer whose name I cannot pronounce. And what about any other law enforcement agencies? Yes, There were several different law enforcement agencies with us that night Which ones? I remember Department of Homeland Security, FBI. We also had Border Patrol with us. It was those three that I can recall. And how were you dressed that evening?

0:13:36 Thomas: We about to ship another couple here are we gonna

0:13:39 Lydia: Think it's creepy. I'm not shipping that couple. Are you shipping that couple shroff

0:13:41 Thomas: We had did we add what was the other one strathmore we're not shroffmore oh okay you so wow okay you can ship shrofmore you can lead a ship to shroftmore but you can't make it your drink. I don't know.

0:13:45 Lydia: More shrof more yeah so is di lorenzo and henry so it would be yeah

0:13:57 Thomas: Dealer DeLera Henslow. No.

0:14:00 Matt: Lorenzo.

0:14:01 Thomas: I think if you have names that aren't compatible, you just can't be together.

0:14:01 Lydia: Or de henry de henery is

0:14:04 Thomas: I Think that someone has to break it to you. Sorry. He's just can'T have a relationship.

0:14:05 Matt: Dan Ray works. Yeah, it's

0:14:05 Lydia: Easy not gonna work out yeah

0:14:09 Thomas: Hen Renzo. No Dealer Henry. DeLer Henzo.

0:14:09 Lydia: It's de henri DeHenry. DeHENRY. There's an easy

0:14:15 Thomas: DeHenry.

0:14:15 Lydia: Answer.

0:14:15 Thomas: I guess yeah I'm sure if you use one letter of one and then sure dear Henry cool why not Henry Lenzo Henry Lenso I think is that's that's my the one I like better okay well fine you they can't be together no

0:14:16 Matt: Right there. I

0:14:16 Lydia: DeHENRY. No, two letters. D -I. Dehenry. Henrolenzo. That's fine, too.

0:14:32 Matt: Just wanted to ask, have you guys been to DC?

0:14:35 Lydia: No.

0:14:36 Matt: I have ridden the metro plenty. My parents live around there. And I just think it's interesting that they're pulling in. I mean, we've already talked about all of the range of federal agencies that have been roped into this task force. Can't imagine that the metro DC, and again, this is only police who police the metro system, both the bus and rail. And the DC metro system is pretty extensive. It's very large. I like it a lot. I think it's a great system. They don't have that many detectives. This is kind of like with the Larimore, you know, being a supervisor in CBP, like what are these people doing out? I don't know. I just, it's, it'S just a waste.

0:14:35 Thomas: Wow

0:15:07 Lydia: I guess I didn't realize it's literally just officers connected to protecting the transit system I

0:15:14 Matt: Buses and trains, a lot of crimes happen on buses and trains.

0:15:16 Lydia: Realize that that's what it was though like yeah you just have someone who like you know if you were in new york city someone who just works a subway station then goes to get deputized to work

0:15:27 Matt: It somehow CBS managed to make like five shows about crimes that involve the Navy. I'm sure this would make a pretty good TV show too, too, like DC Metro Transit. And I've had at least two clients who've tried to hijack subway trains. It does happen.

0:15:28 Thomas: What

0:15:39 Matt: For some reason, it's something that drunk people really like to do. Yeah, I know. I don't know how I ended up with two, but they that they should be driving the train, and they did not have illegal authority to drive the train.

0:15:38 Thomas: A wow two sorry hijack a subway train doesn't I'm gonna ask a stupid question doesn't it just go where it goes like how much driving do you do you

0:15:57 Matt: Yeah. But you can still do a lot of damage if you're trying to drive to train. It's not good.

0:15:59 Thomas: Do believe that it's like can you step on the gas or something like I don't know I thought they're mostly automated right I mean it just goes on doesn't not let I would hope we had better systems that don't let you do stuff that would would cause like derailments and all that maybe

0:16:04 Matt: We can't just just let anybody drive the train, Thomas.

0:16:12 Matt: Just a person. I mean, in Boston, we have an entire transit line that's just trolleys in a tunnel. They're just actual trolleyes. So they're a little more modern now, but they're much more trolley -like, but there still look like trolleies. Yeah, I mean it's, again, these are people that like, there are a lot of serious crimes that happen, especially in a major system like the Metro.

0:16:23 Thomas: Just trawling me now when they hijack a subway cart does do the police have to commandeer the one behind them to try to catch up to that you know like

0:16:41 Lydia: And they have to like pump their arms like like a mine cart to go faster

0:16:42 Thomas: If there's a

0:16:41 Matt: Chase them down. Follow that train.

0:16:47 Thomas: Video game then you have the mine minecart with a seesaw on it that the cops go back and forth.

0:16:50 Lydia: That's what I'm thinking of yeah yeah yeah after them

0:16:57 Matt: The people I'm thinking of, we're not entirely sober. This is not a sober activity typically that someone does in their right mind. Can't say I haven't thought about it myself on slower days.

0:17:00 Lydia: What

0:17:06 Thomas: What are you going to do? It's like, you're stuck. There's no place to go.

0:17:08 Lydia: Why then you're just working now you've taken a you've taking a subway car and now you're just picking up everybody and taking them to their stops for free

0:17:12 Thomas: Now you're just working. Yeah. Now you just do it. It's, like, that art display that was, like. Hey, you can turn this crank and it'll earn you, like minimum wage. And people are, like oh, free money. And they do it for a while. And, they're, like boy, this sure sucks. It's like that.

0:17:27 Matt: That an interesting insight. I often do fantasize about I will admit that. So that

0:17:30 Thomas: No, I do hear that. I'll be like, boy, I could just could be, work at Starbucks and not that left after you're done with work. You just done with Work. You don't have to like, yep.

0:17:38 Lydia: And you don't have to think about it yeah I know oh you guys they

0:17:39 Matt: That would be amazing. Or sometimes I'll go home and play a video game where I'm doing a completely different job too, just didn't have to do it. Is DC Metro police. I just wanted to point out that she's a detective. The Safe and Beautiful Task Force is a waste of everybody's time. So I guess we can keep going here, but just to give you some perspective on that.

0:17:55 Clip: I had on my uniform vest that shows the Metro badge on it. It has police across the back. I also had on mine uniform trousers as well as the footwear I normally wear. It is G .O. and acceptable for night. Were any of you wearing masks that evening? No. And can you please tell the jury what happened? So we originally met at the Gallery Place Metro Station. From there, we took the train to the U Street area. It was a large group of us. Being that the only individuals who actually had radios that would be able to communicate to dispatch if there was anything that occurred were just the transit officers, we broke up into groups. Each group had a transit officer with them. That way, if anything occurred, we would beable to transmit or speak with dispatch. At one point in time, being that it was maybe 20 of us together, myself and Officer Fields, who I was working with, we decided to separate once again. So we had both approximately 10 agents with us. We stayed on U Street and just kind of walked back and forth on that street for several blocks. At some point in time, I think maybe about 15 or 20 minutes after walking, I just told him, let's just stay here on this corner. We were at 14th and U Street at that time. Now,

0:19:02 Clip: During...

0:19:02 Lydia: Must have been so bored

0:19:03 Clip: If I could pause you, I

0:19:04 Thomas: This is very boring.

0:19:06 Lydia: I I think like the night for her was probably very boring too like that sounds so incredibly boring just walking back and forth on like you know two blocks worth of street for 20 minutes yeah

0:19:19 Matt: Will point out that Larimore, this is an interesting note, and it's just kind of a funny, relevant thing between the two jobs here. Larimore parked somewhere near the CBP headquarters, which is 14th and Constitution, not far from Reagan, I think. I'm just looking at the stops. Metro I am kind of transit nerd, obviously. And I just think it's funny that henry did what anybody should do and just took the metro like you know the thing that she polices uh there's you know she's right near a stop

0:19:43 Lydia: But Landmoor laramore did not commute. Got it.

0:19:45 Matt: A long walk instead of just getting on the train like a regular person I just I think that's funny but she's obviously into the trains so yeah

0:19:52 Thomas: That's why dealer Henry work so well.

0:19:55 Lydia: D.

0:19:55 Thomas: Yeah what was it again? Hen Lorenzo. That's they both are such big big fans. That's why it works.

0:19:55 Lydia: Lor Henry. Hen Lorenzo.

0:20:00 Matt: Transit appreciation yeah

0:20:01 Clip: Would like to show you Government's Exhibit 1000, which has already been admitted.

0:20:05 Thomas: This model train.

0:20:06 Clip: Please publish that to the jury. Before you proceed, do you recognize Government'sexhibit1000? I do. Can you just explain the locations as they relate to your your testimony. So this appears to be in the right -hand corner would be 14th and U Street. You can, we are high -tech here. I think you can circle it. You can if you use the finger on the screen.

0:20:25 Lydia: Our clocks are all wrong. Our AC

0:20:27 Clip: Not a problem.

0:20:27 Lydia: Doesn't work.

0:20:28 Clip: This intersection right here is 14th NU Street. Right here is where we would be situated. This is 14 across, so basically this X is where we were standing that night. May the record reflect the witness has circled the intersection to the right with a blue circle and an X appearing at the corner. What is that corner? 14th and U. Northwest? Yes. That is in Washington, D .C.? Yes, sir. Please proceed.

0:20:51 Lydia: What if it was in a different city?

0:20:53 Thomas: This is what feels like he's just a completely incompetent, like, do we really not know we're in Washington, DC, Matt?

0:21:01 Lydia: So funny.

0:21:03 Thomas: Like, yeah, just establishing the basics.

0:21:01 Matt: But you could break this whole thing open turns out it was actually in arlington virginia the whole time and we're in the wrong court sure

0:21:07 Lydia: Shoot. Yeah. Well, she said Arlington twice also, according to the transcriptionist.

0:21:11 Thomas: Yeah, she say Arlington twice, double Arlington.

0:21:13 Lydia: According to the transcriptionist. We're not sure that she actually did.

0:21:15 Thomas: Don't know what to believe anymore.

0:21:16 Matt: Metro does go there so happen yeah

0:21:28 Thomas: I don't want to be too judgmental, Matt, but does seems like in DC. Do we not know we're in DC? Is he being, based on other stuff going on, I just feel like it's his first day and he's kind of like trying to be like overly careful.

0:21:40 Matt: I mean she's just testified about how they met at gallery place and they took the train to u street I think we know we're still in dc but I guess you know again the metro doesn't go to virginia so it is possible you could have left dc I think it goes to maryland as well so

0:21:51 Lydia: I think this is a different lawyer than earlier, too, technically. Di Lorenzo.

0:21:54 Thomas: Are you? No, it's DeLorenzo. Oh,

0:21:56 Lydia: No, and you were, uh, started with a P before.

0:21:56 Thomas: That. Oh shoot. Wait. Is that true?

0:22:00 Lydia: Yeah, I think so.

0:22:01 Thomas: Blows my whole case. Wait really?

0:22:03 Lydia: Yeah.

0:22:03 Thomas: I thought it it was di lorenzo oh no you're right wait then how could there be two idiots on this thing that doesn't fit I

0:22:08 Lydia: John Perrin is the, was the one that you were reading earlier.

0:22:11 Matt: That's right that's fine yeah it takes takes two prosecutors for sure to get this case through. And this is, there's a lot to manage here.

0:22:14 Thomas: Sorry because I remember you told me the one was new but which one was the new one? And did you have info on DeLoreno?

0:22:22 Matt: Yeah John Perrin was the one who was recently, recently somewhat recently at this point graduated from upenn and uh is the one who actually had a lot of experience in national security and such so gotta have him on here

0:22:31 Thomas: Well, I stand corrected. I guess DeLorno is just being really. Is filling the time? Are they like, we got a whole podcast episode out of this trial. So is that D .C.? um Washington DC or okay so Washington DC America or or yeah

0:22:45 Lydia: Or the state washington state he did get his jd from catholic university law school so I just want to

0:22:54 Thomas: I'm making judgments about that all right now

0:22:58 Clip: We were standing there several minutes. I did see the defendant, or the person who was later identified as Mr. Sean Dunn, speaking with an officer. Seemed cordial. I didn't hear any elevated voices or anything like that. I continued just to try to patrol. People were coming up, asking questions and so forth, giving direction. Really a routine day. At some point in time, I did hear yelling. When I turned around, I saw the individual who was identified as Mr. Dunn yelling, being quite loud. And before you continue, the individual you're talking about, you said the individual you saw yelling that night. Do you see him in this courtroom? Yes. And could you please identify him by an article of clothing and point him out for the record? Mr. Dunn is going to be to my right. He is wearing a blue sweater and what looks like a blue tie. Great. May the record reflect the identification. Identification. The record will so reflect. You

0:23:48 Thomas: You already did that do you have to do that twice she

0:23:51 Matt: I guess just to establish because she is an eyewitness to the event you gotta make sure that she is gonna say that she saw this guy do this thing yeah different kind of picture yeah I gotta say I'm I'm really hearing a female detective here today this is a solid read know why it just sounds like a dc transit cop

0:23:56 Thomas: Didn't see like a different sandwiching you know a coincidental sandwiching okay Okay.

0:24:05 Lydia: Thanks

0:24:09 Clip: You said you noticed a change in the defendant's behavior. Please explain. Correct. He was being very loud. He started to yell. He started to walk towards me at one point. I walked towards him. He was saying, you know, what are you guys doing in my city? Something to the effect, fucking fascists. I told him if he wanted to continue to express his First Amendment right, he would be allowed, but he was being disruptive. I said that because there were some people that were asking, what what are you doing? Why are you so loud? At that time, I asked him to cross the street, which he did. He walked across 14th Street, so he was standing on the other side, which would be right where this red building is, which is the Reeves building. At that point, we continued just to stand on that corner. It seemed to be de -escalated at that point. Before he crossed the street. How would you describe his tone? Prior to crossing the street? Yeah. He was still loud, yelling. As he crossedthe street, I didn't hear him as much. If he was was yelling, it wasn't something I had noticed. However, when he did get across the street, he did yell, shame, repeatedly. Again, after that, he kind of was more subdued, so we just continued to be in the area and stayed there until he came back across the Street. And please explain. When he came across the St. he approached the agent, Mr. Larimore. At that point in time, he continued to yell and so forth. He definitely was drawing attention to himself. Mr. Larimore was standing, they seemed to be standing about a foot or closer to one another. I did see Mr. Dunn put a sandwich, I believed he moved it from his left hand to

0:25:36 Clip: His right hand. He then just threw the sandwich at the officer, struck him in the chest. At that point, we gave chase. He was stopped and detained, I believe on the corner of 15th and U Street, about a block away. Now, you testified that the defendant approached Agent Lairmore. Did he approach any other agents or officers who were on the corridor there? Once he returned or came back across the street, I believe Mr. Lairmore was the only agent that he approached. And what was he saying when you recall him returning? More of the same. You know, you fucking fascists, get out of my city. What are you doing here? I don't want you here. And what were you and the other officers doing when he was, you know, yelling these words at you? Just same as last time. All right, that's enough. Calm down. Walk off. And what did he do? More ofthe same. What did he doing at that time? That's when he threw the sandwich at the officer. At that time, he attempted to flee and go across the street. How would you describe the throw that you saw? Just a

0:25:36 Thomas: Into throwing position. Yeah. He cocked it.

0:25:37 Lydia: Getting ready yeah yeah

0:26:34 Clip: Baseball pitch, I guess is the easiest way to say. Overhand throw. Again, they were standing within, you know, a foot or so from each other.

0:26:35 Thomas: Curveball. Knuckleball. Two seam fastball. It hit the corner

0:26:42 Clip: What I'd like to do is show the witness Government's Exhibit 5000. Do you see Government'sexhibit5000? I do. It's a photograph? It is. And is it, what is it a photograph of? It looks... Counsel, you can clear that circle by touching the screen. There you go. Press that arrow. Hit clear. There ya go. Just briefly, what does this picture, Government's Exhibit 5000, depict? So, this is prior to the offense. I wouldn't be able to tell if this was the first time or prior to him crossing the street or if this is after, but this is PRIOR to the offence. So it's a photograph of the subway on the corner outside of the subway. Is that a fair and accurate depiction? It is. The government offers Government's Exhibit 5000 into evidence. Any objection of admission of Government'sexhibit5000? No, Your Honor. Government'sExhibit3000 is admitted and may be published. Can you please identify the location and some of the individuals that are depicted in, well this will be 14th and U Street Northwest. You can see Mr. Dunn. He is standing with one foot on the curb and Mr. Agent Larimore is going to be directly in front of him. Unless there's someone in between us, I'm going tobe next to or to the left of Mr. Larimore. So you can actually see yourself in this photograph? Yes. All of the other agents are wearing, like, green. You can seethat I'm wearing black. Can you make a mark where you see Agent Larimore? I just circled him. May the record reflect the witness circled an individual wearing what looks like a baseball cap in the center. Who is directly in front of Agent Larimore? That's going to be Mr. Dunn, standing in front of him. And where are you? I am standing to the left of both of them. Could you circle your location? May the record reflect that the witness has circled the individual. And you are wearing your police uniform. Correct. And who is to your right? Do you know who that is? Yes. I apologize. It's going be Mr. Larimore's partner. I cannot recall his name at the moment. He's also with the same agency. The question is who is to your right. I think the question was supposed to be who is to your left. In the picture, that's right. Who is to you? Who is your left in the picture? Who

0:26:42 Thomas: Of the zone.

0:28:58 Clip: Do we see to your Right? Oh, my apologies. To my right is going to be Mr. Larimore. Okay. Then where you are standing, who is to your Left? To my left, again, is going to be another agent. He was Mr. Larimore's colleague, and I do not recall his Name. Custom and Border Protection Agent? He is also a Custom and Border Protection agent. That's correct. I'm going to circle one of the other individuals. Do you see that?

0:28:58 Matt: This all the time it's

0:28:59 Lydia: Yeah

0:29:21 Clip: Yes, sir.

0:29:21 Matt: A lot of circling it's

0:29:22 Clip: What

0:29:23 Thomas: The judge will eventually comment on the amount of circling that happens. Poor other agent guy. I like to imagine him with like some flowers like ready to, Oh, man, I was going to ask her out, but never mind. I guess I'm just agent whatever his name is. Didn't make an impression.

0:29:26 Lydia: I know

0:29:26 Matt: Gotta be getting messy how big is the screen

0:29:42 Thomas: Slowly walks out. Anything going on here, Matt? Feels This like just time killing.

0:29:49 Matt: This is a lot yeah

0:29:50 Thomas: This might be conspiracy theory. You can let me know. You know, it feels like it could be in in Thomas's conspiracy world. Are they trying to justify even having this fucking witness so that it's less obvious when they're just having her do authenticate the thing we're going to talk about later that she shouldn't even

0:29:37 Lydia: Oh boy yeah hen

0:30:09 Thomas: Be authenticating?

0:30:11 Matt: I mean they definitely had her on the list as an eyewitness and that was supposed to be the point and he's really stretching it out the defense is not challenging identity they're not saying it was some other guy so like this is kind of a waste of time he's on video and he already said he's thrown it and we We already have the victim clearly identifying him.

0:30:26 Thomas: What facts is this giving us?

0:30:29 Matt: Just another perspective. Just got to get that Rashomon. I don't know.

0:30:31 Thomas: But again, Rashomon isn't just the same thing said by.

0:30:35 Lydia: This level of detail of about yeah like it just seems like she's established she was there yeah

0:30:40 Thomas: Why I I kind of feel like this is padding a little bit we're just like trying to you and could you circle uh circle that circle something else you circle you

0:30:44 Lydia: Just like hoping that you bore shroff enough that she falls falls asleep and

0:30:50 Thomas: Make a circle there I'll make an x and then we'll play tic-tac-toe there's nothing going on here yeah

0:30:56 Lydia: This is standard. This is standard, standard

0:30:58 Matt: In this picture is a dachshund. Can you find, can you find the dachschund?

0:30:59 Thomas: My left your left my yeah Yeah.

0:31:03 Matt: Circle the duchshund, please.

0:31:05 Thomas: Okay. Yeah. That's my, that's my theory. I don't know. We'll see.

0:31:08 Clip: What other law enforcement agencies were with you while you were on the corner of 14th and U Street? FBI. And what is happening in this picture at this point in time? I know at this point in Time there was an attempt to de -escalate the situation. I can't tell if this is from the first time or initial time Mr. Dunn approaches us or if it's after he crosses the street and comes back to the group. And what, if anything, did you notice the defendant doing with his hands when he was interacting with Agent Larimore and the other officers? Just a lot of pointing. And then if I could, if you would remove Government's Exhibit 5000 and put up 5001, and just to show this to the witness, I'm showing you Government'sexhibit5001. Is this also a photograph? Yes, it is. And to move things along, is this a photograph of the same scene in the same time frame? It is. And is it a fair and accurate depiction of that? Yes, I would say so. Your Honor, the government would offer Governments Exhibit 5001. Any objection? No, Your Honor. Governments EXHIBIT 5001 is admitted and may be published. Can you identify some of the individuals? Again, I can't tell where in the timeline we are. Mr. Dunn is speaking with the officers. I'm now a little further from Mr. Lairmore in the left, or in the photo I'm on the right. Right. From the still image, that's all I can tell. Great. If it could help, you can circle. You can see my little puff right there? You can say part of your head, is that right? That's correct. You circled that with a blue circle? Yes, I did. And then where is Agent Larimore? Larimore is going to be middle of the photo, right about there. May the record reflect the witness identified Larimore with a Blue Arrow. Do you see anything in the defendant's hand? Yes. He has a sandwich in his left hand. All

0:32:56 Clip: Right. Thank you.

0:32:56 Lydia: Dun, dun, dun.

0:32:57 Clip: Thank you. So did you have occasion to view any social media videos that were posted in connection with this? Yes. Was that part of the preparation for your testimony today? Yes, it was.

0:32:58 Matt: Case closed.

0:33:07 Clip: What I'd like to do is show you Government's Exhibit 4000, which has already been admitted into evidence. Rather than show the entire video, which had already been done today, what I'd like to is start at about 1 .13 if we could, and then before we play, this is fine. It's 1.12, but we will jump to 1.13. What I'd like you to do is stop at a couple points, but have you explain what you see, if you see yourself, and what you see. Okay. Please play. Please stop. So do you see the defendant here? Yes, I do. And where is he? He is going to be standing right there. Right, you circled him. He appears to be wearing a pink shirt? Yes. Counsel, I don't think we need to circle people every time. I'm guessing the jury has figured it out by now. Who

0:33:06 Thomas: Were they funny or.

0:33:53 Clip: Is directly in front of, who is the defendant facing?

0:33:53 Lydia: There's like four people involved involved in all of this.

0:33:56 Clip: He's facing the group. The closest person to him is going to be one of the Border Patrol agents. Now hit play. Stop. That night, were you able to hear him say, back up, mother effer? Yes. Please hit play, pause please. At that moment, where the defendant is yelling, you know, back off, M. Effer, what

0:34:09 Matt: I'm sorry, that kills me. We've all watched the video. We know what he says. Yes. He's trying to avoid an explicit tag on this trial, is what he's trying to do.

0:34:17 Thomas: Which is so funny. Cause the, Liddy officer already was like, you know, fuck you.

0:34:20 Lydia: Fucking fascists.

0:34:21 Thomas: You fucking fuck. Yeah.

0:34:24 Clip: What is the reaction of the officers that are on that corner? Not much. And what are you as a group doing? I'm sorry, say it again? What are you, as a group, doing on the corner? Watching him. I remember at this point in time telling him he may want to go across the street. That's it. You know, again, our goal is to make sure we are visible, and again, if I had to arrest every person who was disorderly just by, you know, yelling at us or so forth, there would be a lot of arrests. There was no need at this point to do more than telling him to leave the area and continue. You said you warned him. Did you warn him him more than once about his conduct? I believe he was responsive, so I remember the first time telling him that you may want to go across the street, he starts to walk towards the street. I did tell him repeatedly every time. I did mention to him to leave the area. He did a little bit more, so the de -escalation at that point in time was working, so there was no need to take any further objection. What about here when he told the officer to back the F up? I do not see or don't know at that point in time what the officer was doing, I know I was telling him, you know, okay, time for you to leave the area. Please play. Stop. Now, we are here about 2.17. Mm-hmm. What do you see here?

0:35:39 Lydia: Interesting to me because Larimore and his testimony is all, you know, all I said was, you know, have a good night. And I remained calm and everything. And, you know, she testifies to that, too. But it is interesting where she's like, he He responds to de-escalation. Right. He responds to all of these strategies that we do to deescalate situations, to lower the temperature. And he's going across the street. And if that's the case, if she's telling him to, chill, you get back across the street, back off. And He is responding to that. And something must be different, though, in the way that the conversation is happening with with Larimore. I mean, it just feels like, I

0:36:18 Thomas: I don't know. I mean, the video we've seen the video, I guess, has been a while since we've watched it now. But I whipping himself up into more of a thing.

0:36:22 Lydia: Like nothing changed and it just kind of, in his mind, it's escalating. Oh, Oh, okay.

0:36:28 Thomas: I yeah, that's my memory of it.

0:36:27 Matt: He's getting agitated. He is getting more and more concerned about what might be going on here with CBP. Thinking about it, probably. Not entirely sober.

0:36:33 Thomas: Yeah. Getting did. Yeah, I was going to say, was did that factor in? Does it matter?

0:36:38 Matt: Yeah, I don't think it's mentioned here in the trial, but he was not entirely sober, he has said that in public.

0:36:42 Thomas: It's what I would have guessed.

0:36:43 Lydia: Gotcha,

0:36:44 Clip: Again, Mr. Dunn has approached the agent, excuse me, Larimore, yelling, being more animated, pointing again, and just yelling directly at him. What do we see here, Adam? What do he recall about his body movements or gestures? You can see from his gestures he's more animated than he was previously. Definitely more worked up than he was before. And how is Agent Larimore reacting, if at all? Maintaining his calm. Please play. We are stopping at 2 .30, and that's, like, the chase that you indicated? Correct. Were you wearing body -worn camera that evening? I was. Can you please explain to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury what body -sworn camera footage is? Body -warned cameras are issued. They have a distinct number. Mine should only be worn by me. That way anytime there's video you know specifically that it's from my camera. It has a buffering time to it so from the time I actually activate it, which I have to do by pressing a small button in the middle of it twice, once it's activated it will show 30 seconds of video. It will be only video that shows. There's no audio to the video so you get 30 seconds a video prior to when I actually activate the button. It records video and audio once it is activated and according to our geos we keep them on until the end of the events. So in this case because Mr. Dunn was arrested, until I am no longer in contact with him, my body-worn camera would be activated and on. Once he is processed and no longer with me, I can turn my body worn camera off. Where is the camera physically located on you? It's going to be on the center of my chest right about here. As

0:37:22 Thomas: We go.

0:38:11 Lydia: Sandwich area.

0:38:13 Thomas: Yeah. Right in the sandwich basket. Right. We call it yeah

0:38:25 Matt: Want to note the 30 -second thing, I just think that's kind of interesting, that is standard for body cams. It's like a pre -event buffer, basically, so that you're about to record and it captures the video of what's happening just before you record. Yeah, makes

0:38:36 Lydia: It's like always, I mean this, I guess, is a technical question, but it's just always sort of in a state of capturing everything but not actually capturing it like not storing it I guess especially

0:38:45 Thomas: 30 second buffer yeah stores 30 seconds I don't know why there's no sound that doesn't seem like that

0:38:47 Matt: Sense. Yeah. That seems like it could be a problem in some cases.

0:38:51 Thomas: Sound is like than video by a lot yeah

0:38:54 Lydia: If you're talking about context to lead you to activate your body camera yeah

0:38:59 Thomas: I also feels like so easy to be like well I forgot to do it you was I thought they were just like on more I thought There was things that made them turn on I just this doesn't feel like the most efficient system especially with how I mean I guess is it like the unions or like privacy concerns of the officers and stuff because

0:38:59 Matt: Somebody's yelling and yeah. And it would also be a lot of data to store you those gigabytes of data from every shift.

0:39:21 Thomas: But I mean you store you save like a week or something or say you know save a certain amount of time um I just it just feels weird that there's no um that it automatically goes on in any way I mean they have to remember to do it

0:39:25 Matt: That's true at a time. Yeah it's true. We have to trust it. Yeah I

0:39:36 Clip: You described, it's not constantly on. It has to be manually turned on? It's not consistently on. We have to activate it to start to receive video. Did you activate it this evening in connection with this event? I did. And would you recall where it was where you activated it? I believe at some point we were chasing Mr. Dunn. I tapped it on so it should be mid -chase. At that point, it pulls back how much time? Approximately 30 seconds of video. And that doesn't have audio? It would not have audio to it. Did

0:40:04 Thomas: Swear

0:40:04 Lydia: Said that I literally just saidthat yeah

0:40:06 Thomas: Trying to get your essay word count up like it's what what are we doing and that's um a that's that's so that's camera so I bought body cam that's not short for camera and who's who's body your body oh okay so yeah

0:40:20 Lydia: And remind me, where on your body is this camera placed?

0:40:23 Thomas: Does it mean worn like like it says jeans that are pre -worn or does it mean body worn like it's going to be on you

0:40:30 Matt: Know what he's thinking the whole time? Some jerk podcaster is going to be paying by the page for this. I'm going to make him pay.

0:40:35 Lydia: Yeah. Maybe he's dating the transcriptionist. Maybe that's what we should be shipping.

0:40:39 Thomas: I we're blowing the lid right off this whole scam I think this is I really think this is like trying to make something be more serious that is just not serious like in any way just

0:40:41 Matt: Lorraine. Yes. It's just not going to work. You Yeah. Can't make this important.

0:40:49 Thomas: Trying to pad the the word count

0:40:52 Clip: Did you review your body -worn camera footage prior to today? Yes, I did, sir. What I would like to do is pull up Government's Exhibit 3000 -A. You had an opportunity to look at it prior to today, right? Yes, I did. Is this from your body -worn camera footage? Yes. It will show the chase, apprehension, and arrest. I would ask for 3000 -A to be admitted and published. Any objection? No, Your Honor. Government's Exhibit 3000 -А is admitted and may be published.

0:41:24 Lydia: Can you pause it for a second? That you had the court do the reading of the exhibit number like mirrored the way DeLorenzo did it with like dash a like they both did it. I don't know. It brought me joy.

0:41:25 Clip: Please

0:41:31 Thomas: Well well the the I think that read was all right another worthless exhibit like okay cool have a 3000 dash whatever yeah really

0:41:43 Lydia: Hey.

0:41:45 Clip: Hit play. Now, we hear no sound. Hold for a second. So, we heard there were two beeps. What were the cause of the two beeps? That's the activation beep. You can see my left hand towards my chest. At that time, I had been able to start to play the video.

0:41:58 Lydia: Now remind me when you activate

0:42:00 Clip: That's when you turned it on? Correct.

0:42:01 Matt: Is there sound? Out.

0:42:02 Clip: Why was there no sound before that double beep? That is just the buffering period, generally. And I want to say, for the most part, most BWCs are activated. So, you can get access to the video prior to the event. So, that's basically what we were seeing until you heard the two beepes. And then the arrest itself. So, it wasn't a hard takedown. Could you describe the arrest? Yes. So, I don't know if you can see me in the video, but there was an unmarked patrol vehicle, an MPD vehicle nearby. I'm actually using one hand. I had my flashlight. I am kind of flashing it towards Mr. Dunn so they can see who we are running after, trying to apprehend. So, the vehicle who stops him, they're actually just parked. They have their vehicle parked right out of camera frame to the left where the intersection is. And the person who is on the left of the camera, the bald gentleman with the glasses, is one of the MPD personnel who actually came out of the vehicle and stopped and detained Mr. Dunn. If we could just quickly pull up Government's Exhibit 1000. You saw this at the beginning of your testimony. Do you see the location where the arrest took place, where the defendant was stopped? Yeah, so we're going to be right around this area here, which would be the intersection of 15th and U Street, northwest. And then just generally, what happened after the defendant Was taken into custody? City? Well, I went over the air or basically communicated with my dispatch, let them know that there was an arrest or a 1095. At that point in time, we did a wanted check on the person. We were given his ID, which we got from him, search incident to arrest. So he has checked or searched at that point. In time, he did have a wallet on him that had a government ID on it. I use that information, which would be first, last name, date of birth. We run a person's check to make sure he doesn't have any outstanding warrants or any attempts to locate or anything like that. I let Let them know that he was going to be placed under arrest for not the APO or assault or police officer assault or federal police officer, but disorderly conduct. I

0:42:06 Lydia: It. Because I already said.

0:43:49 Matt: Very important here, just want to note.

0:43:50 Thomas: Is yeah what was that about yeah

0:43:51 Lydia: Tell us.

0:43:52 Matt: Feel like she threw that in, like she did not have to mention that. It's a very good detail, but nobody was thinking about this.

0:43:57 Thomas: Out to me as well really

0:44:00 Lydia: She on Dunne's side.

0:44:01 Matt: Little bit, it seems like. I mean, it does seem like she kind of slips that in that I wanted, I did not, yeah.

0:44:03 Thomas: That's what you I thought you were going to explain there's some some other reason for that arrest

0:44:09 Matt: No, I just think it's interesting that she just gratuitously mentions that she had no reason to charge him for assaulting a federal officer or any officer, just disarroiled contact for making a mess of a sandwich yeah

0:44:15 Thomas: Him for that huh what hmm

0:44:18 Lydia: Honestly like the like way that her testimony had been going I feel like she is more sympathetic towards Dunn than like I mean she's obviously just answering based on facts and observations and stuff but like the way that she emphasizes I think that he He was responding to de -escalation. Don't know. I just think there was a lot there that I was like, oh, I think she's on his side. I think he probably is not super into this case either.

0:44:43 Matt: About her motivation in this scene because she's just got the email that afternoon that she's going to be on this stupid task force yeah yeah I mean it's like it's an easy overtime thing but like she's not doing her job that she presumably wants to be doing um she has stuck babysitting cbp officers basically um don't even know how to take the train I

0:44:55 Thomas: It is a very specific thing to be like not for that I wasn't sure if there's some legal reason that would make sense

0:45:06 Matt: Mean makes sense that she didn't think it it was really worth charging him with. And say, I mean, at least around here, they will charge people with APO, I saw them better, a police officer. They'll charge it for pretty much just touching an officer or trying to touch an officer. So, you be surprised at all to see somebody charged in Boston with that. You wouldn't go to jail for it or anything, but it's interesting, though, that just her state of mind at the time was

0:45:13 Lydia: Is APO?

0:45:28 Thomas: I don't know what it's interesting clarification I feels to me like it would be like yeah I'm one of the assholes that was trying to arrest him for a sandwich kind of thing like maybe it's more about her like trying to clarify like you know I'm Not really for any of that crap, because that was nothing. Yeah, I don't know. That's interesting. Was very curious if there's going to be some weird legal reason she would say that is there anything about the the manner in which you're arrested or the way? Oh, wait. Does it have to do mit how they picked him up later? Because they let him go, does it mean the first time they arrested him, it makes more sense if it was for something different?

0:45:38 Lydia: It could be yeah

0:46:03 Matt: It's good to remind people that they did decline to charge him in D .C. And she is a D .S. cop, and she would have had the authority there to charge them. Um she also could just have the most neutral read of this is she's just trying to recount everything that happened in that arrest so she's it down but

0:46:16 Thomas: But it is a thing to like, she would have to think of saying this for some reason.

0:46:21 Lydia: Because I mean other the The simplest way to continue that story would be like, I let them know that he was going to be placed under arrest for disorderly conduct, like listing all those other things.

0:46:30 Thomas: I'm trying to just think just in case, because like, my theory is that all cops are

0:46:36 Lydia: But she's a transit detective, too. So, yeah,

0:46:39 Thomas: But but there anything to Matt like if she had arrested him for the assaulting an officer, but then they had like let him go? Would complicate it would or give Dunn any recourse if because they did this the whole SWAT team thing later? Later it's like I'm the only thing I can think of is like oh it's important to say I didn't arrest him for that thing otherwise it might be harassment to have arrested him twice for the same thing okay

0:47:04 Matt: He's he's arrested on federal charges later uh he's just talking about dc charges I believe and what she's saying here what she would have jurisdiction over but

0:47:07 Thomas: That wouldn't matter that was the only things I could think of so I guess so nothing to that theory all right weird what

0:47:13 Clip: I called for a transport officer, which would just be an officer that comes with a caged vehicle. So we would be able to transport Mr. Dunn from this location to the precinct where he was gonna be processed. From there, he's taken to the district and processed for the offense. Who was the officer that assisted with the transport? It's going to Be a transit officer, Officer Thandy. Thandy, can you spell that? His last name is T as in Tango, H -A -N as in Nancy, D as in Delta I, Thandie. Did you accompany him to the station? Yes, I did. The station. What station was that? I believe it was going to be the 4th District, MPD's 4th District. The station house. Have you been there before?

0:47:52 Clip: I have. Are you familiar with the intake and the processing? Yes ,I am. And the defendant was transported. Where was he within the vehicle? Vehicle? He's going to be sitting directly behind me in the cage or secured area of the vehicle. Now, prior to today, did you have occasion to review, do you know whether or not Officer Thandie was wearing a body -worn camera? He was. Did you have occasionally to review that? Yes. And in reviewing it, do see yourself in some of it? Yes, I do. And what I want to do is, Your Honor, here's the point. I can continue

0:47:52 Thomas: Does it look like yeah

0:47:53 Lydia: Is it nice?

0:48:24 Matt: Finally

0:48:24 Clip: If the court would like, or I will. What's your next question? So what I'd like to do next is show you some video.

0:48:29 Lydia: Like DeLaurence is getting bored himself.

0:48:31 Clip: You may. Great. It has some audio, though. We can turn the audio off. Well, that's what we will do. I'd to show government's exhibit 3002. If we could start at 11 -50 -23. I'd

0:48:24 Matt: The point yeah the

0:48:25 Thomas: I feel like this is our kind payoff here. So we're getting into it.

0:48:47 Matt: If you will yeah

0:48:48 Clip: I'd ask if you can put the video started at 23 -50. I think this is obvious. The record will be obvious. But when you say that, the 23 - 50, that's the time stamp of the video rather than the time of day, right? Right? In other words, that's, we're going to 23 minutes. I'm sorry, we are going to the time. Oh, okay. That's the time at the bottom. Yes. Okay. Look at the top right corner. The numbers seem different to me. It's not a big deal because of reasons I will get into in a minute. But for my purposes, let's just go to where

0:49:19 Thomas: Are that none of this matters it's not important for reasons that this whole fucking thing is stupid but

0:49:21 Lydia: You're wasting our time yeah it's

0:49:27 Clip: You want the video, ask some questions, and then we will deal with it. So before we play it, we are at the film timestamp that reflects the time that day, which is 234748. And the timestamp in terms of the ticker is 240069. And then if we could play it. Do you recognize this? Can you press pause? Mr. DiLorenzo, I'm having a lot of trouble hearing you. So let's press pause on the video, and then, Mr. DeLorenzo, if you could just make the mic a little bit higher and speak loudly into it, that would be great. Sure. Do you recognize Government's Exhibit 3002?

0:49:54 Lydia: So messy

0:50:05 Clip: This portion where we stopped it at the native timestamp 23 -39 -09? Yes, I recognize it. What is it? This is Officer Thandie's body -worn camera. Are you in it? At this point, I am to the right of the screen. Well, let's just do authentication first. Anything else you would like to ask on that question? No. Please continue to play the video. Okay, pause the video, please. It is marked at native timestamp 235025. Were you present at this point? Yes. And what is happening at this time? Hold on. Your Honor, objection. I get it.

0:50:42 Thomas: Right. We're going to pause there because the bulk of the, you the bulk of the legal debate and everything is going to take place in this in last bit here. It's really interesting and frankly confusing. So I'm excited to learn more about that. Do you think, Matt? What can you say about this? This first part we've gone through. Oh

0:50:48 Lydia: Fisticuffs

0:51:00 Matt: I got to say just that last piece we just listened to. Every one of my transcripts has a moment where someone says, Mr. Cameron, can you just speak a little louder so everybody can hear you? Every single transcript. I feel this, Mr DeLorenzo, I feel it.

0:51:10 Lydia: Man

0:51:13 Thomas: So when you bought the transcript that your name was flagged in the transcriptionist guild and they're like oh oh mr mumbles oh mr fucking quiet voice over here wants to buy a transcript double the cost nay triple it that's why it was so fucking expensive

0:51:18 Lydia: That guy

0:51:27 Matt: That really might be why I'm so sympathetic to transcriptionists. I know I put you all through a lot because I speak at the exact volume that I'm speaking into this microphone right now in my life. Really try in the courtroom.

0:51:39 Thomas: Even when he thinks he's yelling

0:51:41 Matt: Yes. And in the court room, I feel like I'm screaming and I'm barely talking above this volume. So, and

0:51:40 Lydia: Man I just I have to say I'm so glad deal runs at least didn't continue to give double time stamps like he did that first time where he was like the time of day was this and the time stamp on the ticker was this and he just switched to one thank god for the rest of it but god

0:52:01 Thomas: He's like gmt gmt queen yeah now was it daylight savings so that happened yet gosh just absolutely padding the the here what font was this fucking thing in

0:52:15 Matt: Courier, of course. Have our eyewitness. We have the person who saw the thing happen. And most importantly, as we talked about last episode, now she's going to set up this video that she was not part of and has not seen before.

0:52:29 Thomas: Right. Well, uh, episode is when the sparks are going to fly. Uh, when, when the courtroom wakes up and it's like something happening, something going on. Uh. There's a big, big debate because we've got some evidence questions. We've admissibility. We've gotta, uh, possible admission, all kinds of interesting stuff that would probably beyond Thomas takes a bar exam, uh that kind of thing and I'm curious to see how it goes.

0:52:40 Lydia: Man me too oh

0:52:54 Matt: No, good stuff here. And unexpected, I have to say, when I ordered this transcript, did not expect we'd be talking this much about admissibility of body cam footage, but I got pretty into it when I started looking into it.

0:53:01 Lydia: I can't wait to hear about the massachusetts case that you're you're gonna get into oh

0:53:05 Matt: A very dramatic shoving in a hallway and that was deleted but then testified to fight about anyway. So fascinating stuff.

0:53:13 Lydia: Just reminded me the body -worn camera stuff that john oliver just covered and thinking about oh so good matt have you seen that where it looks like they're fighting and

0:53:15 Thomas: I know. I was just thinking that too. Yeah, some, some news show did the like, here's the problem with body cam. It can look like you're having a fight, but actually you're not. And they were doing some weird like dance.

0:53:28 Lydia: It zooms out and they're dancing at each other.

0:53:30 Thomas: It was the funniest thing ever. Sort of.

0:53:31 Lydia: So funny. It was like

0:53:34 Matt: A West side story fight.

0:53:35 Thomas: It was like this weird, like, I don't even, I can't even remember exactly what it was. It was so bizarre.

0:53:35 Lydia: They were like jumping towards each other and moving their arms like in a way like it was. Oh, it's so funny. It's so fun. I'll find that for next time so you can watch it.

0:53:46 Thomas: Well, it's, it'S a purely visual, but yes.

0:53:48 Lydia: Matt.

0:53:49 Thomas: Oh, for Matt. Oh, from Matt. Okay. Well, we are going to wrap up the second half of the sandwich. The first one, I feel like we just ate the cookies first that came with the thing. That was just pure fun. We're going to get our, our uh, our vegetables in the next episode of the law. So we'll, Henry Lorenza happen? Uh, we'll find out next time on gavel gavel.

0:53:49 Lydia: For Matt. Shroff's colleague come back from the bathroom? Stay tuned.

0:54:33 Thomas: That because my partner's taking a shit judge mr mumbles oh mr fucking quiet voice over here wants to buy a transcript double the cost nay