WTW122: Fox News Declares Project Hail Mary Anti-Woke Because Sure Why Not

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:03 Clip: What's so scary about the woke mob, how often you just don't see them coming.

0:00:11 Clip: Anywhere you see diversity, equity, and inclusion, you see Marxism and you see woke principles being pushed.

0:00:19 Clip: Wokeness is a virus more dangerous than any pandemic hands down. The woke monster is here and it's coming for everything, everything, and everything. Instead of go-go boots, the seductress green M &M will now wear sneakers.

0:00:41 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Where There's Woke. I'm Thomas, that over there is Lydia. How are you doing?

0:00:45 Lydia: Hello. You know, I'm excited about this one, so I'm doing well. How are you?

0:00:49 Thomas: Excited too because it's been, God, How long have we been doing this show now? We're almost at like three years?

0:00:54 Lydia: Two years? Three years?

0:00:55 Thomas: Wow. Well, I'm exciting because after all that time, we're finally going to know less about what the word woke means. We've been at this long and we've still never gotten a definition that makes any sense. And I'm exited to be even more confused about what that word is supposed to mean.

0:01:13 Lydia: Mm-huh. It will be. We're going to talk about how, well, you saw Project Hail Mary. I saw Project Tail Mary. We actually saw it together. Wouldn't you believe it?

0:01:22 Thomas: That was a weird way

0:01:23 Lydia: I don't know why I presented it that way, but that's what I did. And we're going to go with it. We saw that movie and enjoyed it. Whatever reason, Fox News put out this article saying that this is proof that Project Hail Mary wins rave reviews as anti -woke Hollywood blockbuster. And you and I were both like, what?

0:01:23 Thomas: Of saying that. I don't know why you did that.

0:01:37 Thomas: What's the headline? Yeah. Yeah. We both went and watched it. Great movie. Enjoyed it. You know, I have an SIO coming out about some of the science of it soon. So look out for that. But we watched it and then you see that headline. You're like, did I miss something? Was there like an anti like, you know, was there like anti trans athletes in there somewhere I missed or something like what?

0:02:02 Lydia: It's crazy.

0:02:03 Thomas: What?

0:02:03 Lydia: Yeah. The article is obviously like super fun. We're going to talk about it. We're gonna talk about a of, other of conservative commentators, you know, kind of rushing this exact same talking point. Yeah, we're gonna have a lot of fun.

0:02:18 Thomas: It's more than just like some idiot at Fox News who needed like a article to write that day. It was more than that. I can't wait. Cause the minute I saw that it was like, okay, I have to know how are they making this case? Like what in the world is woke to them? Like, what does it even mean?

0:02:33 Lydia: Know. Yeah."

0:02:34 Thomas: Is we going to find out that the author is like a super Republican guy or something? Like What, what's going to happen? We'll have to take a break and find out after the break. So, uh, if you want to not have to hear ads, go to patreon .com slash where there's woke. You You can Can Not Hear Ads. You Can Get the Goodies. And, um, support the show. Support debunks. And finally figuring out what woke is supposed to even mean. Uh, so after this break, we'll find out.

0:03:04 Lydia: Going to start us off by reading through the article, probably just about half of it, because then it takes this like religious turn that I don't think we need to get into today. You know, about how Ryan Gosling's character is a Christlike figure. Project Hail Mary is also in reference to the Virgin Mary. I don't know. Yeah, but they recognize that. They say, and the Hail Mary is also reminiscent of.

0:03:19 Thomas: It's a Hail Mary. Okay

0:03:26 Lydia: Yeah. But we'll focus on this woke angle that they, of course, lead the article with.

0:03:26 Thomas: I how you can always if you're a Christian you can always say any character is Christ like like any main character is be and this one is not like there's not even really much spoilers he doesn't die at the end there's no like it's

0:03:47 Lydia: He's just willing to die.

0:03:48 Thomas: Weird to have that be what you say also

0:03:51 Lydia: Actually, he's not willing to die. That's the other thing. Yeah. Other spoiler.

0:03:53 Thomas: He's not Christ like in

0:03:55 Lydia: I just said he was willing to Die and he's not.

0:03:55 Thomas: Any way there's It's just a thing that they say about every main character because usually the main character, there might be some self -sacrifice. But like, it's just he's just the character. It's not. It's stupid.

0:04:06 Lydia: Yeah. All right. A new science fiction film is drawing praise from audiences who say it delivers something increasingly rare from Hollywood, a crowd pleasing blockbuster that avoids overt political messaging. Project Hail Mary, adapted from the novel by Andy Where, stars Ryan Gosling as Ryland Grace, a biologist turned middle school science teacher who is chosen for a space mission to save the planet from an impending disaster. Film has drawn strong audience and critical reaction, earning a 95 % critic score and 96 score. It also led the box office in its opening weekend, earning $80 .5 million domestically and $140 .9 million worldwide. Reception has prompted praise from a number of conservative commentators who compared the movie to other crowd -pleasing hits such as Top Gun Maverick. Several commentators said the movie's success offers a lesson for Hollywood.

0:04:59 Thomas: As always.

0:05:01 Lydia: Saw this last night. Fantastic movie. Zero foul language. Nothing woke or inappropriate. Just great humor and MRCTV managing editor Brittany Husso, who knows, knows nobody, wrote on X, adding, Hollywood, take note. Berry, managing editor of the Babylon Bee, called the film a, quote, fun movie that is great, quote to watch with the family. I hope they make more like this. Journalist Megan Basham echoed that sentiment, quote. So clearly, Project Hail Mary, which is being roundly applauded for old school, wholesome entertainment, is going to be a massive hit, just like Maverick. And Hollywood will learn nothing from it. She added, quote again, Again, Hollywood can thrive again. It just has to an industry that it cares more about telling good, entertaining stories than in peddling political propaganda.

0:05:50 Lydia: Yeah, so going to skip to the end because we're going to talk about this guy's website we're going to go to or I'm gonna go to and I'll tell you guys about it. But entertainment critic Christian Toto, host of the Hollywood in Toto podcast, told Fox news the movie's reception reflects audience hunger for hopeful storytelling quote there's a reason project hail mary is causing a stir the film is brimming with imagination hope and humanity he says that the film unlike many of its modern counterparts avoids virtue signaling or quote mocking the story's straight white hero he goes on it's a fiercely original story that feels all too human yes the lead actor is a handsome movie star but his character isn't sure he'll be able to complete his mission that's very relatable on several levels the film is also the film is also clean wholesome and attractive to all ages yeah no virtue signaling no lectures

0:06:21 Thomas: What are you talking about? And that's not woke. Clean. Yeah. I'm tired of like litter around my films.

0:06:44 Lydia: Just a little too much clutter nothing but entertainment sadly in this day and age those basic qualifiers make it a culture war conversation starter

0:06:51 Thomas: What the fuck are you taking? What are we talking about. In mind that you're even thinking of yeah

0:06:52 Lydia: Yeah I mean you and I read this article we were so confused and we're like okay I like there's elements of the movie that are would actually bother conservatives so are they just like blinding themselves to that like let's talk about that

0:07:08 Thomas: Well I think what's what's great is I I was just doing the exercise as you were uh I was thinking okay if we wanted to do the opposite week I could write that article right now like the article of fucking woke hollywood well first of all it's about climate change because the sun is oh sure they made it so that the sun's getting you know colder or whatever but like they're just doing the opposite so it's about climate change and that's about the world having to get together and by the way who's in charge of the of the science of this a woman she's in charged of course they got a woman scientist who's in charge yeah they de -eyed

0:07:41 Lydia: A woman yeah and dei I see people of all different races is gathered around that table yeah

0:07:50 Thomas: Yep they got all they have the woman and then the multicultural multicultural everybody different languages they're speaking and so then and by the way I'm probably just gonna have to I'll try to try to not spoil the movie but and then they got the main character in straight white guy who should be our hero he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing he's a bumbling idiot yeah he's in space pretty much and sure he knows a little bit bit but like yeah they can't have them just be competent like you just can't have a competent white guy anymore like you can't just be like a competent like you're just not allowed to be a white man and be like competent in the movies anymore can't

0:07:54 Lydia: Not enough white people at that table yeah bumbling idiot he's clumsy he's makes bad jokes

0:08:30 Thomas: Even do it

0:08:31 Lydia: This is this propaganda against marriage and the family because he does not have a partner he doesn't have kids

0:08:35 Thomas: Two single that yeah that woman who DEI to the top of the science thing she doesn't have family either nobody has a family is very anti -kid they're fully against having families and then there meet meet an alien, and instead of shooting it like we should, he tries to teamwork with an alien.

0:08:43 Lydia: It is yep

0:08:55 Thomas: Come on, fucking woke Hollywood and your bullshit. And you don't know what what he is too he's an evolutionist he's a science teacher that's his whole thing yeah the the science teachers and the deis are gonna save us yeah

0:08:55 Lydia: Isn't that crazy yeah of course have to learn to communicate and it's not that he's He's going to teach the alien English as he should. Right. The universal language.

0:09:17 Thomas: The alien can't even assimilate you know you could usually go the other way with it like a hundred percent what

0:09:19 Lydia: It's crazy. And I go to because, you know, that that's like a brilliant little paragraph happening at the end of of this article here. And soI had to know more about this guy's Web site. It's the Hollywood and Toto Web site I mean, it's brilliant because it's so insane, where clean, wholesome, attractive to all ages, no virtue signaling. I go to his website, and the tagline is, the right take on entertainment. Ha ha. Like, okay, cool. This is just like a conservative website of gathering entertainment news. From like the Hollywood Reporter, because that's too woke too, I guess, then you can go to this guy's website. And he has an entire article about lifting up conservative movie critics and like linking to their work too, because, you know, he thinks that most movie critics are liberal and the conservatives get hidden. And this Know, what about DEI for conservative beliefs, blah, blah, blah. And how I found out that I didn't, I don't think I knew this Ross Duthat. Um

0:09:35 Thomas: Was sorry what what's a brilliant little pair what the clean one okay yeah no purchasing yeah

0:10:24 Lydia: Guys I call him duke hat that's his name uh a film critic for national review did you know that I didn't know that that's funny um uh conservative critic that that he lifts up here that I I'm just checking folks out and stuff is john nolte for breitbart and writes he's arguably the most outspoken conservative movie critic in the game Now, this I'm going to read to you from John Nolte is not about Project Hail Mary, but just to kind of get you the idea of, again, what does woke mean? Because this guy's obviously anti -woke.

0:10:30 Thomas: That sounds right yeah I still don't know oh

0:11:00 Lydia: The kinds of, you know, really well-considered movie reviews you're going to get. This is about, oh, this is About the Netflix woman, in the Window with Amy Adams and stuff.

0:11:12 Thomas: Yeah I don' t know it

0:11:13 Lydia: He writes, John Nolte for Breitbart, what's really sad is how woke tartary was able to turn this movie, a movie about voyeurism, into something as sexless and sterile as Bible study.

0:11:20 Thomas: My god dude come on what huh what is happening right

0:11:28 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, wait, that's not fair. There's sex in the Bible. How did Hollywood become so broken that a movie about window peeping has zero sex, zero erotica, a total waste of time and talent?

0:11:28 Thomas: Now oh

0:11:41 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:11:39 Thomas: My gawd sorry what the

0:11:44 Lydia: Amy Adams wasn't sexy enough as she was spying on neighbors.

0:11:46 Thomas: Who so this wasn't dude hat was it I'm I'm who are we talking talking about?

0:11:49 Lydia: It wasn't Dude Hat. It's John Nolte for

0:11:51 Thomas: John Nolte for Breitbart. Okay, so the reason that now the woke Hollywood has taken over, now there's not enough creeping.

0:11:51 Lydia: Breitbart. There's not enough sex. Exactly. We should be we should be having more sex in all of this stuff. He uh he found this on reddit where apparently his old muckrack tagline uh I'm a huge supporter of gay rights just look at my folder of lesbian porn so but I mean well he is he is a conservative conservative uh that is being touted by hollywood in toto which was cited as saying that project hail mary you know is a triumph for anti -woke because there's no virtue signaling no lectures um it's clean wholesome and attractive to all ages like this it's so confusing pick a lane like what is this yeah

0:12:02 Thomas: It's so complicated. This is some creep weirdo. I don't feel like he speaks for the Christian conservatives, though. Also love how they always do this thing. They always do it. Oh, maybe irrelevant Hollywood can can finally get back to blah, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, dude, it's one movie and it's, let's just look at the box office. Like it's always like, okay. The, in 2026, Project Hail Mary is doing well, but But let's look at some amazing grossing movies from 2025 because we're only a little bit into 2026. back the months wicked for good that one's dei as hell we got we got two women of color, right? As the main, as the leads.

0:13:15 Lydia: Mean cynthia revo is like double woman of color because she's a black woman in green paint yeah they

0:13:21 Thomas: And she counts twice. Yeah. Captain America, Brave New World. That's, didn't they make a black Captain America? DEI. Snow White. Weren't they specifically mad about Snow White?

0:13:29 Lydia: Did oh they hate snow white

0:13:34 Thomas: Yeah, well, that was the top March movie of last year. So a year ago, that Was the top grossing movie. So there's a good grossing movie that's woke we have to go back to woke right but when there is one that's allegedly not woke then we get to go back I just don't even know they have to just switch back and forth so often or could it be that the thing you're saying makes no fucking sense and it's just a movie it's just a goddamn movie okay

0:13:37 Lydia: Allegedly too yeah yeah so let me let me piggyback off of that because this this is so ridiculous that you have a former amazon executive he was uh The head of Amazon Studios, he no longer is, Roy Price, wrote a New York Times opinion piece about Project Hail Mary and what this means for Hollywood also. And he says, a possible reason for this rebound, movies are starting to feel fun again. What?

0:14:23 Lydia: And then he talks about the history of movies a little bit. Loves box office data, and the recent data suggests that there are two paths forward for the industry. One path is the prestige message films that dominated the most recent Oscars, exemplified by this year's Best Picture winner, One Battle After Another. The other path is represented by eight -cylinder entertainment like Project Hail Mary and The Housemaid, as well as pulpy films like Weapons and Sinners. Yeah, Sidney Sweeney.

0:14:47 Thomas: Housemaid, pulpy films like weapons and sinners hold on now Now sinners counts, that's not the woke left?

0:14:54 Lydia: It puts in parentheses, which had its political notions, but you could enjoy it for the music and vampires.

0:15:00 Thomas: Yeah, again, if it's bad, woke. If it's good, not woke. No.

0:15:04 Lydia: Yeah. If this new era of fun has a figurehead, it's the actress Sidney Sweeney, who almost single -handedly revived the romantic comedy with Anyone But You and the erotic thriller that was with Glenn Powell. One day, like, yeah.

0:15:12 Thomas: Sorry, what? I know, but that wasn't

0:15:16 Lydia: Oh, I know. Yeah. Oh. You're saying sorry, but what about the whole sentence?

0:15:18 Thomas: Good. Nobody was, yeah, like nobody, was that good? When did that come out? I don't even see it on the box office list here.

0:15:26 Lydia: Well it came out last year and I think the thing is that what we're talking about

0:15:30 Thomas: It didn't lead any particular month, so there. There.

0:15:33 Lydia: I think he is reflecting on actually is marketing success not necessarily box office data um the housemate like these are things that at least for me on my social media I see this stuff all the time and I see sydney sweeney she like reshares people's tiktoks of them going to see her movies and stuff. So then other people are invested in like, oh, let's create a TikTok of us doing it too, because then Sydney Sweeney is going to repost our thing. Like this, all marketing. It's all marketing.

0:16:02 Thomas: Guess I have not come. I didn't even know what this was that came out. Oh, wait. Housemaid came out in twenty twenty five. I thought. Oh. Oh, in December. OK, so that's not anywhere on the list. But to be fair, it was outdone by Avatar Fire and Ash. Is Avatar: Fire and Ash the second place Zootopia to hold on? What what is this movie? The, okay. Let's see what came out ahead of that. Avatar Fire and Ash, Zootopia 2, Five Nights at Freddy's 2. That's such an important woke film. Wicked for Good, which I think had already been out for a month. So it's still, Wicked is still beating it. Wicked part two, which, I'll be honest, wasn't good, still beaten it.

0:16:46 Lydia: Know what? Hot take I'm a big wicked lover and I also did not really enjoy part two part one was solid oh

0:16:50 Thomas: It wasn't very good. To be fair, David, which is that stupid but religious movie that also outperformed the housemaid the housemate was in sixth for december like yeah it's not it wasn't I I don't know what to tell you it wasn'T a big movie yeah it's fine. It's just another movie that came out I don'T I DON'T understand the the whole trying to make a whole thesis out of everything and then cherry picking box office date look the oscars is not trying to reward box office sales you that seemed like the step he was doing, right? It was like, well, exemplified by the Oscars. Well, take a look at those performances. It's like, yeah, they're not going to be based on ticket sales. It never is. The Avatar fucking Fire Nation, the Minecraft movie would be the Oscar winners or whatever. If it was based on tickets sales, it's never

0:17:01 Lydia: It's a particular type of audience yeah yeah right right

0:17:36 Thomas: Going to Be what it is. By the way, how about the Minecraft movie? That was pretty woke, right. Got lots of people of color. You you got. Yeah, I don't even, I actually don't Even know what to make of that movie.

0:17:44 Lydia: Some pigs um piglins I don't know

0:17:48 Thomas: Would

0:17:48 Lydia: What even to call everything yeah it's It's I think I know.

0:17:49 Thomas: You call it woke or not woke or neither I don't know oh

0:17:53 Lydia: Yeah, I think it's confusing. I think. I don't know. You have to be in a particular brain space.

0:18:00 Lydia: He also says, you trying to say that sex, erotic thrillers and humor were on the outs. Romantic comedies essentially disappeared from 2012 to 2016. Roughly 67 comedy films with budgets over five million were released a year on average from 2017 to 2023, excluding covid in 2020. 2020 that average dropped by a third to 45 comedies a year it was an era when you could make nomadland a best picture oscar winner in 2021 but championing the ribaldry of a film like bridesmaids seems suddenly out of the question and I think it's just it's when I see all of this stuff about um like fun movies like people are going to the movies again they haven't forgotten where their movie theater is you come out if it's fun if it It speaks to them. And I look at, like, to your point when we're looking at the monthly data, I'm just looking at the best performing box office, you of the year. And the amount of money that they make is consistent. Like, it's a lot all the time.

0:18:57 Lydia: And, yeah, and the movies are, are fun, but they're also, some of them were derided by, like, Ben Shapiro as, yeah.

0:18:57 Thomas: Like whatever the top one makes yeah yeah a couple years ago barbie yeah they

0:19:05 Lydia: As woke. Barbie, exactly.

0:19:06 Thomas: Keep talking about how top gun maverick was like that's the one that said okay that was 2022 box office leader 2023 was barbie and out too is there anything more woke than emotions inside out two is 2024's top movie and And to your point, you make a great point, which is they're all kind of around the same amount, though. Like, ultimately, there obviously there was a huge dip after COVID. And gross of box offices leading up to COVID, it was $10 billion and it had hit $11 billion.

0:19:36 Lydia: But look at the movies that are leading that. We're talking about Marvel. It's Avengers Endgame, Black Panther.

0:19:40 Thomas: It was peak Marvel. That's actually a bigger part of it, honestly. It Was peak Marvel, but then the other thing is COVID killed it. So So 2020, it goes from $11 billion to $2 billion. That is actually shocking.

0:19:52 Lydia: And the number one release that year, I'm sure you didn't see it. I didn't say it. Bad Boys for Life,

0:19:56 Thomas: Well, it's probably just because it came out like in the months before.

0:19:59 Lydia: 2nd.

0:19:59 Thomas: Exactly. It came out before COVID hit. So then it was the default like winner.

0:20:03 Lydia: It got two months.

0:20:04 Thomas: And so it's building back up from that COVID disaster. But in starting in 2023 with Barbie, by the way, not Top Gun. Got back to almost $9 billion, which is like pretty... Pretty good recovery.

0:20:15 Lydia: Pretty dang close.

0:20:16 Thomas: Yeah. Like, especially with how much we thought like, oh, streaming is just killing everything, you the theaters actually went out of business because of COVID. So I know there's a lot of like infrastructure, you Know, that probably gone. That wasn't there anymore. And yet 2023, 8 .9 billion, 2024, 8 point five, 7 billion, 2025, 8 0 .6 billion. So yeah. Okay. It took a billion haircut because of covid or whatever. Like yeah, yeah, that's going to be rough. But now it's pretty consistent. Like, it's not like there's a major change in the movies that are driving this, to your point. I think it's a great point. It's like Barbie, Inside Out 2, Minecraft movie. Like yeah, there's a certain number of people who want to go see movies and they're probably mostly just going to see whatever, you

0:20:16 Lydia: And that's a great point too like yeah yeah mm -hmm

0:20:56 Thomas: Know? And there's people who are only going to go out to specific movies, but also those people usually find a specific movie. Like it's not going to be like they're going to every movie, but they'll find their release that they want to go to. I don't know. I think it's not really dependent on fucking woke.

0:21:11 Lydia: Yeah but this Hollywood and Toto guy is taking this that op -ed and and kind of like uh don't know but turning it into this tornado of a situation where Where he says, he's right, even if he shrewdly didn't use the W word, woke. Yet few people within the industry were willing to vocalize this truth, let alone do something about it. Chose to self -censor instead of fighting back in the wake of President Donald Trump hate and the overreaction to George Floyd's death or the mishandling of the Me Too revolution.

0:21:42 Thomas: Is happening? Is this about movies still? I've lost track of what this is.

0:21:43 Lydia: I don't know. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then he says that either way, films often felt like a chore to watch, not a pleasure. But And then you look at the dollar amounts and the movies that have come out. And I think like you're lying to yourself. That's not actually reality at all. I And guess like you could say maybe Barbie, like you didn't have fun watching Barbie if you're, you in the mud or whatever, like super conservative or something. But Oppenheimer came out that year. That was a great movie.

0:22:14 Thomas: Barbenheimer.

0:22:14 Lydia: Yeah there are movies that are fun to watch all the time

0:22:16 Thomas: Contrary to what they think, like the wokest don't like we just watch a movie. It's like it just be a movie, Like, not everything.

0:22:23 Lydia: If it's good storytelling yeah

0:22:25 Thomas: Sometimes there's movies that are more political. Sometimes there's not. Who cares? We don't want to see a movie that's like the Bible. That's kind of boring. I mean, you could probably make a good one if someone wanted to, like, actually make, like a good movie that was kind of based on that. But yeah, we're not going watch morality porn tale or whatever, you know, the stupid, like morality tales of whatever, like that's not gonna be good. But for the most part, like your average people just Even your average like quote unquote woke person, they're a good movie, we're going to watch a good fucking movie. That's all people really care about. Got something for interesting you.

0:23:02 Thomas: Here's what I just noticed. If I just notice that we've got the total gross. We've also got the number of releases.

0:23:02 Lydia: Exactly and yes

0:23:09 Thomas: And if you look, it's actually that the releases have gone down. And I just quickly took the average. Is obviously not like super scientific, If you take total box office, as reported by boxofficemojo .com, which I think they probably have pretty good info, and then you take the total releases, it was 12, 13 million before COVID on average.

0:23:09 Lydia: Oh great point yep yep

0:23:34 Thomas: So, like, your average movie was getting that. Post -COVID in this recovery, it's actually a little higher. So, it is 14 .6, 15. Now, 2024, that year that was Inside Out 2, well, it's not specifically that one, but that year, oh, wait, it has the average for us right there already.

0:23:33 Lydia: Mm -hmm yeah

0:23:53 Thomas: I thought that, I just, you

0:23:52 Lydia: It's okay I was letting you cook it's fine

0:23:56 Thomas: Should have just told me that, because I thought That Was the Box Office for that movie, because it had the movie right next to it. Yeah, yeah.

0:23:57 Lydia: It's you already did the work oh oh I see no you already did the works I wasn't gonna interrupt you

0:24:04 Thomas: So, and I was just checking numbers. They line up, they line up pretty good. Yeah yeah they uh pretty accurate seem to be you know rounding rounding yeah no it's good checking the rounding looks pretty good it looks like they're rounding down so like for example for barbie uh you know for the that year I got uh 818 .92 they round it to 818 so you know a little dollar here and there but

0:24:08 Lydia: You're like yep ties out ties out yeah different schools of thought you know oh

0:24:36 Thomas: Yeah okay well you know when you have adhd and you're also trying to listen to your wife's lovely podcast uh don't notice that that column is actually already the average so anyway the average has gone up uh you know it's a little low in 2024 and I guess 2025 it was a little lower as well I think it's because the the barbenheimer year probably was like a bit of a anomaly because yeah I think was a good year but point is where they're doing fewer movies now does that mean if they did more that we'd get the consistent box office and it would would be back to the heydays of 2010s the basically all of the 2010s I don't know I mean maybe I I don I guess I wouldn't know either way I'm nowhere near an expert but to try to derive all of this meaning either way like woke or anti -woke because of these numbers it's just stupid like it doesn't fucking mean anything yeah

0:24:57 Lydia: Probably an anomaly yeah yeah I some of this is also like a self -fulfilling prophecy because this we're talking about the number of releases on this data set it's box office releases and how many things are being released direct to streaming platforms and And I think that a lot of studios think that people won't come, that they won't come to the box office, they won'T come and actually watch movies and theaters. And they will if they are like pulled in by something that piques their interest. And so what you have is like studios deflating the numbers of things that they would normally release in a theatrical, you and putting them on a platform instead where people are consuming, they're still consuming it. I bet a number of things that were direct to platform, had they been put out in releases, in movie theaters and stuff, I bet a lot of people would still come. I mean, you wouldn't see the numbers.

0:26:15 Thomas: That that might be the difference in the in the releases the it might just be that the studios decided okay about a third or fourth of the movies roughly we're just doing streaming yeah

0:26:18 Lydia: We think the market has changed. And yeah, and so we're going to do this. It also costs them less to do things straight to streaming for them. So they're able to turn a bigger profit on, you you know, whatever gets watched. And they probably have existing agreements with the streaming platforms about what that looks like. You know, I think that there's a lot of data that's within this, that when you get an op -ed like that in the New York Times, or you get this conservative person spinning that op -ED then to be even more anti -woke than it actually is, you end up with something that just, it doesn't make any sense. And I think it's really highly un -nuanced and for how movie consumption actually works for the average person.

0:27:04 Thomas: If it's not good that's woke if it is good it's not woke here's the truth about project hail mary it's got a delightful alien guy that why that's like be the main reason it's delightful alien alien guy. It. I I want to write the same article except replace any of the woke bullshit with just they're actually doing puppets instead of CGI. That's my new, that's the crank article we should be doing. Hey, you know why this movie's doing so well? It's because it's not a fucking CGI Yoda like like the timely reference, the prequels back in, in, no, they went back to the puppet for the Mandalorian because it'S better. Better uh not it's not that cgi bullshit we got an actual puppet we got puppetry you know

0:27:32 Lydia: And effects. Yeah, Oh, oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

0:27:45 Thomas: That's the key you want to get people back in the box office bring back the puppets that's actually a better thesis than yours yeah that puppet rule the puppetry fucking ruled in that movie

0:27:50 Lydia: I think that's actually not totally wrong. I think people, and it wasn't just that either. I saw a thing that said that the way that they did the, um, the astrophage, you know, the, the actual like effect of the light was chicken wire and lights wrapped around that. And I was like, well, that's freaking cool. Like there's all these practical effects that people are so creative in using. And I think it shows like when you're watching a movie.

0:28:15 Thomas: I'm fucking tired of cgi I really am I'm sure there's also plenty of cgi in the in the film but yeah but it was like a better use of it I I think, I think there's, there's always a place for it, but, um, could write, yeah, you could right. The same old man yells at cloud article, except about, wow, we're going back to more practical effects, you know, an

0:28:18 Lydia: CGI AI go away. Yeah, of course. Especially like to clean things up and stuff right yeah yeah well speaking of old man yells at cloud I thought we could uh hear the quartering he's not that old I guess he's older than me I'm gonna call him an old yes yeah um I thought that would be a good idea we could listen to him because he loved project hail mary um he's also holding up ryan Ryan Gosling is like a hero for calling out the Hollywood elite is kind of how he puts it. So I thought we could listen to his take on what we can learn from this.

0:28:41 Thomas: Old man yelling at a cloud. God. That's, that'S just insane. Fucking neckbeard incel yelling at cloud, I disagree. I love the Hollywood elite. Like anyone's on the other side of that argument. It's so fucking stupid. But what saying I have to watch this I'm required to it's part of my job that's

0:29:08 Lydia: I know it is stupid. Yes. Yes. Yeah, it is.

0:29:16 Clip: On my name's jeremy this channel's called the quartering and here's today's news so we all know that hollywood has been struggling complete box office disaster after a complete box

0:29:26 Thomas: Today's news here's todays news so we all know that this hollywood sucks and it's really bad it's today news anyway the weather

0:29:40 Clip: -office disaster sometimes the videos are just movies are just bad sometimes the actresses are really just that rachel zegler for example I don't know if snow white was any good I have no idea it's not a movie for me but there is zero chance I was going to see it after the actor opened their mouth this is exceedingly common especially also in tv where people really love a show for example like reacher then it turns out the main star has trump derangement syndrome and says that you know christians shouldn't like donald trump and all this kind of stuff and well wouldn't you know it viewership drops down or they pump out something that is just woke trash from jump street for example star trek uh starfleet academy which has now been canceled okay next season will be its last season that's the new way of saying nobody watched this garbage and we don't want to say it's canceled we want to stay here and we want to say that it was only going to be a two

0:29:45 Thomas: The actresses what well it was the top box office movie of that one month that I what they

0:29:48 Lydia: Calling out actresses. Yeah oh because you're a misogynist is what that is yeah

0:30:42 Thomas: Usually

0:30:42 Clip: -year show that that's that's their new cope but the

0:30:43 Thomas: Say it's canceled it's cancelled that's

0:30:46 Lydia: That that the hollywood elite not

0:30:46 Thomas: Their name who's they who's they yeah

0:30:46 Clip: New movie project hail mary which again I wholeheartedly endorse I am I watch a lot of movies okay this was the best movie I've seen in the theater in 10 years period it was an incredible ride yes the third act had a little pacing issues but I mean I even 3d printed this little guy if you know you know it was incredible movie and so much of what I do on this channel is like dunking on woke trash.

0:30:55 Lydia: Snow white yeah it's the aliens rendering of ryan

0:31:19 Clip: But if you're going to do that, you also have to tell people when something is very, very good. And Ryan Gosling, the star of this film, came out and just put Hollywood on complete blast, proving us all right. Remember after the lockdowns, Hollywood came out, and they're like, you have to support the theaters. Think about all the people who work at theaters are going to lose their jobs and think essentially it was the american people's fault that

0:31:13 Thomas: It's the alien oh

0:31:19 Lydia: Gosling but yes wait

0:31:21 Thomas: Yeah you're right sorry oh

0:31:37 Lydia: Till you hear what it is yes

0:31:49 Thomas: God this guy

0:31:49 Clip: Theaters were going to close down not

0:31:49 Thomas: Has two million subscribers subscribers on YouTube. So fucking dumb.

0:31:52 Lydia: Folks please share our show

0:31:55 Thomas: Yeah. We, you just, everything is so fucking stupid. I don't, what are we doing? I guess we're just, we're 그냥 fucked.

0:32:01 Lydia: Yeah insane

0:32:04 Clip: Fact that going to the theater started costing more than a month's rent practically for some people well that's probably exaggeration but going to the theater for a family four started costingmore than a hundred dollars not for the fact that a string String, an almost unbreakable turd of bad content had come out of Hollywood for five

0:32:12 Thomas: Probably. What?

0:32:24 Lydia: There was plenty of good stuff you're wrong no

0:32:25 Thomas: When?

0:32:25 Clip: Straight years. There were gems that came out, but people were so gun -shy because everything sucked so bad.

0:32:30 Lydia: They weren't they spent their money yeah

0:32:32 Thomas: I, what, what is he talking about? Okay. I'm looking at the box office again. We can go to the data. It's yeah, COVID was bad. 2020, bad year. That's because it shut down. 2021, still pretty shut down, but already, you basically over doubled the year before. 2022, recovering again, kind like of almost doubled again, like went from 4.4 billion to 7.3 billion. By the time you get to 2023, I mean, we're pretty much back. Like Not meaningfully different in those years. You know like so okay we'll do the reddit thing like exclamation point remind me in if we get to the end of 2026 and 2026 is actually like 11 billion or something then I get maybe he will have had well he still doesn't have a point but it would at least like support what he's saying rather than contradict it but like again barbie top movie of 2023 of

0:32:54 Lydia: Huge year yeah oh yeah yeah Mm-hmm

0:33:25 Thomas: A very good year 2025 still Still didn't even touch that. We'll see if 2026 touches it. It's, you know, probably be close, but like that, not real. You're just fucking saying shit.

0:33:34 Clip: Well, cue Ryan Gosling saying exactly what we all knew. And hearing

0:33:40 Thomas: Is he saying exactly a long string of turd, blah, blah. Like whatever bullshit you just said.

0:33:44 Clip: This out of a Hollywood actor, hearing this level of self -reflection and humbleness and like understanding the actual situation is so incredibly refreshing. Well, thank you just for coming to the theater. You know, I think obviously theaters need you, but it's not your job to keep them open. Oh, based.

0:34:15 Clip: A thousand percent based. It is not our job to keep them open. And then he delivers the second half of this, which is incredible. It's our job to make things that make it worth you coming out so that's what we did with this film I uh

0:34:20 Thomas: Man. I'm sorry. Imagine being so fucking addled your brain. So melted by politics that someone saying, Hey, Hey, thanks for coming to the thing that we sell. Um, it's not your job to keep us in business with the thing they said that we sell. It's our job to sell a good product. Thinking that that's somehow a reinforcement of your entire worldview. Like he's just saying it's yeah, it's what any business would say. Like it's literally like the most basic fucking business guy thing like well it's not that you know we have to make a good product for the customer so that they buy it yeah exactly that was it

0:34:55 Lydia: To yeah yeah like a foundational capitalist principle Like, exactly. It's economics. Oh, God. No, yeah, you can stop there.

0:35:20 Clip: Not your job to keep theaters open it is our job to make movies that you want to see exactly

0:35:23 Thomas: I want to hear more yeah man yeah exactly

0:35:29 Lydia: That's what they're trying to do all the time.

0:35:31 Thomas: I'm I'm sick of these wokas saying hey we're not even going to put on a movie you just have to come to the theater yeah you got got to pay then you're gonna buy an empty box of popcorn for the same price because because you know what woke is like giving money to businesses for not any products I don't

0:35:50 Lydia: None of it makes any sense. What is woke, everybody? What is wok?

0:35:53 Thomas: They're fucking brain dead they are brain dead everything

0:35:56 Lydia: It's all nonsense. Nonsense. It has flattened any sort of conversation, any sort of real conversation. If you could have actually ever had a real conversation about any of this stuff, it's stupid. And it's for people who've been brainwashed already.

0:36:08 Thomas: I hate is woke exactly it a good movie I was disappointed by the guy I think you're going to talk about it the the guy's quote I'm not a fan fan of.

0:36:22 Lydia: Actually, why don't I just send it to you right now we can I think this is the one you're thinking of. But this is back when the Martian came out.

0:36:24 Thomas: Let's play that. Really? Oh, okay. I saw people saying it recently, but

0:36:31 Lydia: So this is from when he was interviewed back during The Martian.

0:36:35 Thomas: Okay. Let's see. But that was a while ago now. When did that come out?

0:36:39 Lydia: 2015, 2016.

0:36:40 Thomas: So he's writing, well, we'll get to what he says first, but that is very relevant information. Okay.

0:36:46 Clip: Of My Books Have Any Message. I never had, like a moral or a deeper meaning or anything like that. For me, what's front and center is the science. If you confine yourself to the real physics, then that's hard science fiction. And it's considered even harder science fiction if the technologies used actually exist. So, for instance, in The Martian, all the technology shown is stuff that actually exists. In the face of overwhelming odds, I'm left with only one option, and I have to science the shit out of this. I don't put politics in my novel, because as soon as you can see the political slant of the author, you know that the universe of that book is going to conspire to validate the author's political viewpoint. So as soon you know, then it makes the book boring, because you can predict the sequence of events and you can predict the outcome or you can predict it to within a few, a very small subset of outcomes because you know that the author is not going to preach a political viewpoint and then it turns out to be wrong. None

0:37:47 Thomas: So that book was from 2011 and the movie was from 2015. I think that's kind of important. Now, this interview, though, seems to be from 2019. 19. So I guess maybe, maybe my point about that is wrong. Um, I don't know. I guess I could go either way. I saw people quoting this and dunking on it. And I it's pretty rough to be like my, my, uh, my books, there's no message of that first quote. What was it? There's no meaning in my books.

0:38:14 Thomas: Hold on. I'm going to go back to that quote. It's just a hell of a hell of a way to start.

0:38:17 Clip: Of my books have any message.

0:38:19 Thomas: Ah, yeah. None of my books have any message. Like there is a sense of if If I'm trying to be charitable, there's a sense in which I agree in that good is an often said thing, like good art doesn't answer questions, it poses questions, you know, like it's not good art if you just make a political, you know, movie or book or whatever and it's just the good guys are good, the bad guys are bad and it is because they agree with your politics. I agree with that, like nobody, that's kind of boring, like, nobody really likes that. Well, I say that a lot of people love the West Wing, so maybe I'm wrong about that. I think it's boring, but I also don't even know if that's being too charitable to him, because I feel like like to say there's nothing in it that's political is that's silly. Like, science is political. All Like, of science. And this is going to make me like this guy's stuff a lot less because I would like you to at least be grappling with issues that are interesting.

0:39:16 Lydia: The thing. I this is blind spot. I don't know that this is necessarily like coming from a bad place. He grew up in the Bay Area. And like me, I don'T think he's really had to grapple with what the rest of America looks like. I think so. I mean, well, so he did a Reddit ask me anything 14 years ago. And he said,

0:39:29 Thomas: I don't know. No, I'm just saying we have no way of knowing, like, what this is coming from. Um, he said, Lydia is right. I am from the Bay area. Everything's cool.

0:39:42 Lydia: He was born and raised in the Bay Area. He confirms that. Also, it's in his Wikipedia. He up in Livermore.

0:39:45 Thomas: I'm not saying that was wrong.

0:39:46 Lydia: No, I know. Says, on social issues, I am very liberal, as you can probably expect from me growing up in the bay area. But on fiscal matters, I'm conservative. I work hard to keep my political views out of my stories.

0:39:54 Thomas: So he's a conservative. Yeah,

0:39:56 Lydia: Nobody wants to be preached at. I don't think that that I think that is like, I

0:39:57 Thomas: Conservative. Conservative. I think that's what Bill Maher would say. He would say I'm

0:40:03 Lydia: But 14 years ago, I think I know where he's at now.

0:40:05 Thomas: So even worse. Yeah probably

0:40:07 Lydia: But14 years ago. I don't know. When I was a teenager, that's kind of like the line that I thought I was.

0:40:08 Thomas: Worse. There's that old. Yeah no that's fair. There's Yeah, it's interesting. I imagine this guy is probably libertarian or something like a lot of those tech guys are as well.

0:40:20 Lydia: He's, you know, an older. Yeah, exactly.

0:40:22 Thomas: There's there's the joke that like the dating profile that says not political means conservative. Like it's just that's.

0:40:22 Lydia: He I think in this day and age. Yes. I d 'nt think that necessarily was the case 14 years. Years ago

0:40:32 Thomas: Don't know. I think, think I would have said that in 2007 or so, you know, I would have said, ah, I'm not political. And it's because I was kind of conservative and everyone around me was liberal. And so I didn't really want to like talk about it, you know, and I'm from sort of near the Bay area. No, it doesn't matter.

0:40:47 Lydia: Yeah I I don't know yeah

0:40:53 Thomas: Yeah. Who knows? But to him, I'd be, I be curious, like, again, being really charitable, I could see this being a statement that's like, okay, OK, or or a statement that's kind of dumb, like if you're going to do the opposite and you're never going to be political, well, then I know that nothing in your story is going to happen that's political, you know, so now it's spoilers for that, you know, like to counter his point of like, well then you know it's going to happen because, you know, it has to be in accord with the political views, well OK, first off, you don't always know the political views of the author, like it could be that they start something and you think it's political a certain way, but even in something like one battle after another, like that supposed to be political? Is that the wokest that movie? Are they labeling it as such?

0:41:34 Lydia: I think so I think because of like them making fun of white supremacy like so it's you know woke because of the the new clan

0:41:42 Thomas: See, yeah, so you can't do that because it's predictable that white supremacists are bad, but they don't actually lose in the end, really. So, like, that's why I think good art also it's not going to be a morality tale. That's just like, and then all the white supremacists died. It's like, yeah. Okay. One character had a bad ending, but like those white supremacies are still in charge of everything at the end. Like they're, they're not.

0:42:06 Lydia: And yeah they don't see any

0:42:07 Thomas: So I don't, yeah, it's weird. I

0:42:07 Lydia: Consequences guess the other piece that I'll say is like he might say that he doesn't put politics in his books. But when we're talking about Project Hail Mary and like it literally is climate change as a result of something happening to the sun. Like and how does the earth how does humanity come together to try and face that existential crisis that is inherently political and the way that he has like the way that that piece is told I don't know I think he is just saying and maybe he doesn't necessarily intend for politics to come through in his writing but it's just that's reality. And so he gets kind of a cop out. He doesn't have to like, you include it or explicitly call out that those are the things that matter to him. Yeah.

0:42:51 Thomas: It really is like the white male privilege embodied of like, Yeah, I DON'T have to be put my work doesn't have to do political and he's just hasn't examined the parts that are. Also I love it like when you're doing space travel man hey we got a party in power that like almost doesn't even fucking believe in space like that we're so far off the deep end science wise they're cutting funding hey did did your book have NASA in it well guess what that's fucking political and they want to cut all of it you know like it just is and do understand the impulse though as a I could get it I guess as an artist of some kind to try to like like not, you don't want to be seen as political so that your stuff can kind of appeal to everybody in a certain way. I kind of get that in a sense. You don't wanna like turn into like a mouthpiece, you know, cause that maybe that's not your job. Like, I think that's like a legitimate way to be, but the whole, like, there's no message in any of my books. A, That's that's a weird thing to say. I don't know. It's just like, There shouldn't be like a, a one sentence cliche message at at each at the heart of each of your books. But the best books, the best stories will just make you think about a lot of stuff, you know, and that's that's a message in itself, like directing your focus and introspection to a particular thing is maybe not like a message in the sense that it tells you exactly what to think, but it is directing your attention towards something. And I think that's that's, the best way to do it. I have to imagine though that that's that quote is probably why and that mindset by him is probably while these conservatives felt confident to be like ha exactly this isn't woke because we know the guy isn't a woke is trying trying to spread the woke messaging so they could go all in and then not be embarrassed later by, by the author being like, actually it is kind of, you know what I mean? Like, I feel like that's why they probably felt safe to do all these takes. Cause it is pretty silly in the end. It's It's like, it's a cool space movie. People

0:42:59 Lydia: I think that's fair. Yeah. Yeah.

0:44:45 Thomas: Like cool space movies. They also liked interstellar. I don't know. That one wasn't by that guy, right? That's a different guy. I think or something. They liked interstellar like space movies and the mainly just the, the lovable alien. It's just, this is great. It's fun. It's a good movie. I don't seeing how much everybody else is liking it, I've kind of like, I do like it, but I do feel like it wasn't like a perfect movie.

0:44:57 Lydia: He's just cute. Quartering saying it's the best movie he's seen in five years is so insane.

0:45:11 Thomas: Think he said 10 years. Oh, did you say five? Either way. I dunno.

0:45:12 Lydia: 10 years? No, yeah, either way,

0:45:15 Thomas: Yeah.

0:45:15 Lydia: It's wrong.

0:45:16 Thomas: Yeah, it's not.

0:45:18 Lydia: It's fun. It's a fun movie. Don't get me wrong um this like trying to figure out like that this is holly hollywood woods reckoning with uh woke movies and this anti-woke blockbuster is showing them what they could actually be doing there hopefully they're gonna get it now um it's just like the weirdest interpretation of what's been going on no we still won't know yeah

0:45:37 Thomas: Yep. So I still, I guess we'll never know what Woke is, but apparently Project Hail Mary, Mary Notwoke, I guess. I don't know.

0:45:49 Thomas: Oh, boy. Well, that was fun. It's a good movie. People should see it. Hopefully we didn't spoil anything. I, it was a bummer to see that quote by that guy. It's just like, just say anything. Just a bumer. I don't know. It sucks. All right. Well, th at was fun, too. Thanks, Wocus, for listening. Thanks, Lydia, for the breakdown. And keep on sharing the show, and we'll be back very soon for another episode.

0:46:00 Lydia: Can't wait

0:46:34 Thomas: Was just checking numbers.