Pete Hegseth's books are racist trash written in crayon. We've got some highlights for you.

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:09 Thomas: Hello and welcome to opening arguments this is vapid response wednesday I'm thomas that over there is real life immigration attorney matt cameron how you doing Matt.

0:00:18 Matt: Am jazzed to talk about the fox news hosts who are bringing us world war three that's what we're here for today I

0:00:24 Thomas: World War III brought to you by, by gold or some, some other, some other sponsors as well. Yeah.

0:00:29 Lydia: VPN. Yeah, yeah.

0:00:31 Thomas: And Lydia, how are you doing?

0:00:33 Lydia: Hi, I am. I'm doing okay. I would say I'm not as excited to talk about this stuff as Matt is apparently. But I mean, we're gonna have some, some real pieces of work on our our screen pretty soon um yeah so we'll see

0:00:45 Thomas: And Matt Siegels, how you doing. I actually love this, the Siegel there. They are a beloved character of the show. Now that we have a crucial Siegel update, everybody, Matt was taught is okay. Siegles is okay if I said so before the the show Matt was saying there's construction and that quieted the seagulls down which has me worried like I felt bad when you said that I was like oh that's their rightful territory they've earned it you know but I think we hear them yeah we hear they're they're right back to their old squawks their old squawking they're totally back so that's everyone

0:00:49 Matt: Think we'll see We're right by the harbor. I think they'll be okay. I'm

0:01:20 Thomas: Can rest assured yeah

0:01:20 Matt: During this very recording, they will probably be back, but they're quiet for now. We'll see. We're just,

0:01:24 Thomas: I already heard them they're good I was telling Matt I'm gonna try to mic them like get their own mic you you know, there's, I want to hear him in full. It's delightful.

0:01:27 Lydia: Alive and well yeah stereo just kind of soothing

0:01:35 Thomas: Every once in a while, he's just like in the background. That's great.

0:01:35 Lydia: The ears yeah that's nice no

0:01:38 Thomas: Um, all right. So we've got some fun stuff in, uh, yeah, it's not really fun. Like you said, I mean, uh it's, it's I think the only thing that's fun about it for me is now every time I see or think about Hegseth, I just think about what's his name from SNL. One of the, uh yeah, that's, that's one of the better, it's, and it's the writing. He doesn't have to do much like he just it's

0:01:44 Lydia: Though yeah so good yeah he

0:02:02 Matt: Just to be a bro.

0:02:02 Lydia: Has a good look

0:02:02 Thomas: So well written yeah he looks perfect for it so good oh rarely has a character been captured so well

0:02:03 Lydia: For it though too I think yeah yeah I love it and there's so much Hegseth right now right because we're coming up on um almost a month since the war that's not a war in Iran

0:02:17 Thomas: He's got a lot of wars going well

0:02:18 Lydia: So he's you know on camera a lot um which means we get a a lot of call -in on Saturday Night Live, so that's good.

0:02:25 Matt: Yeah. But as with the Kristi Noem episode, I had to go back and listen to his books. Not just one book, but two books. I've listened to way too much of these books.

0:02:37 Matt: And And we can learn quite a lot about Pia Hedgeseth and the situation we're in right now. I really feel like these books should have been raised more as confirmation, maybe, if it would have made a difference. I don't know, but it would've been good. They're pretty psychotic.

0:02:49 Thomas: I can't even imagine I first off I just want to see the process of writing that book like how many people adults had to help him you know how did he I mean did he just dictate it to his mom or something thing.

0:02:59 Lydia: I know.

0:03:02 Thomas: And then, yeah.

0:03:02 Matt: A lot of six -packs, a lot of late nights, yeah, a whole lot of handles.

0:03:06 Thomas: So Pete's Hegseth. Uh, let's see what else did we tease everything else? Um, got to find a amuse-bouche.

0:03:12 Matt: We do, with another one of our favorite MAGA Fox News characters, Janine Pirro, in a truly unhinged press conference. It's actually a very historic press conference, so we'll talk about that in a minute. And then we have to go back for a classic vapid response moment to January 2023, when James Donald Vance is telling us about why he's voting for Donald Trump specifically on the issue of war.

0:03:32 Matt: So it's obviously aged very well. And we'll take a look.

0:03:33 Thomas: I mean, it's so good that we didn't elect Hillary because then we would have been in this war a little sooner. That's the thing.

0:03:42 Matt: Who knows what the Middle East would look like right now.

0:03:43 Thomas: Yeah Yeah. Oh, everything's stupid. All right.

0:03:48 Lydia: Yeah. Hence, vapid response. Hence why we're doing this slot.

0:03:52 Thomas: That's why we're here. And

0:03:53 Lydia: Yeah lucky

0:03:54 Thomas: Another reason why we are here is our amazing patrons at patreon.com/law. A lot of people loving that video game duo of episodes, the Subnautica lawsuit. Folks, if you haven't listened to that, you got to listen. Part two is already up for patrons. It is, man, that is, that that is a thing, Matt. I, sometime we got to talk about, I want to get your thoughts on that, Matt, at some point, because I can't believe the CEO of that company is using AI to try to screw people over with something that important, like that much money. It is just, if you want to see good, bad things happen to bad people legally, you got to listen to those episodes. Good times.

0:04:11 Lydia: Ducks.

0:04:33 Matt: It's too bad. I loved those games. They're really beautifully made. Beautifully made. But it does fit into an ongoing theme in opening arguments about idiots using idiot AI, garbage in, garbage out. So it's a great story.

0:04:44 Thomas: Well, I think this was good news. If you're a Subnautica lover, I Think it may, may, uh, may be good news there for you. So, but those amazing patrons, we thank our hall of famers. Those are the $5 level and above who pledge at least for at least a month. And we thank them each and every week. And it's so much fun because some of them change their names and do funny things. Some of them have consistent names that we've enjoyed for gosh, eight years.

0:04:49 Lydia: A little bit of justice.

0:04:49 Matt: I hope so.

0:05:05 Lydia: Many years. Yeah.

0:05:07 Thomas: Yeah. However long it's been. Uh, so we'll start with our first third here. Thank you to the Ruth Bader Ginsburgler. My house is a mess, but I read a lot of books. Dominic Dominic Gillespie, Matthew Cutler, Autistic Twitch Streamer, Vetinari for America, 2028, one man, one vote. Unremarkable, Christy's Christy Double Tap Gnomes Goat Fences, Inc.

0:05:16 Matt: Respect.

0:05:31 Thomas: It's a great business idea. Amina, Donna Treadway, Mother of Heritans, Mike Lapinsky, No X in Nixon. Oh, good. Okay. That's a palindrome. No X in Nixon Cyanitis. AI marketing is anti -worker propaganda. Gray preponderance of the evidence. For a resurrection lasting more than 72 hours, please consult your doctor. Apprentice of adventure. Charlie Kelly, attorney at Birdlaw. Probably a real person. And Nick Fish. Thank you, top patrons. We'll take a quick break and then we'll get into it. All right, Matt, what do we got here? Oh,

0:05:42 Matt: Well done. Okay. So here we have a decision from Judge Boesberg. You might remember, of course, from all of the immigration litigation. Great judge from what I've seen in the District of Columbia. So we've got the U.S. Attorney's Office. This is a very unusual thing that has just happened. So of course first of all, the extremely unusual thing they were trying to do was criminally investigate Jerome Powell, the head of the Federal Reserve. So that was their first mistake. And we all know, and I think we all understand at this point, that the investigation of Jerome Powell is just completely political, that Trump didn't like the way he was doing interest rates, and he's trying to threaten him, basically. So there were subpoenas that they were trying to get, criminal subpoenos that, yes, that's

0:06:42 Thomas: And that's the only thing standing between Trump and a booming economy. Really? It's just the only one. He just, if you would just adjust those rates a little, give them 0.25%.

0:06:47 Matt: One guy.

0:06:52 Thomas: We're in, we're booming.

0:06:53 Matt: Yeah, no, that's pretty much it. So we've got quashing. We've got some attempts to quash these subpoena. And we're trying to quash.

0:06:59 Thomas: We got quashing. You said that like it was a, like a return. We got quash alert all right what's being quashed yeah wait

0:07:06 Matt: I know we appreciate a good quash on this show. Yeah. So we're playing around a quash, we have two different subpoenas that were issued to him.

0:07:13 Thomas: Sorry I'm just I saw I scrolled because yeah me

0:07:17 Lydia: I thought for a second this is what the judge was writing. But no, no, he's quoting Trump.

0:07:20 Thomas: Too I was like what is happening

0:07:22 Lydia: Yeah.

0:07:23 Matt: Give it a few years, a few more Trump appointees, we may have this.

0:07:25 Thomas: There are there there have already been trump judges that write as bad as this we've seen it uh okay sorry that just caught me by surprise

0:07:30 Matt: But yeah, this This is, once again, a judge using Trump's words against him, his stupid social media posts, Truth Social, more than 100 statements in which he's directly attacked Jerome Powell and talked about who should have a job and whatever. So this is extremely unusual because it's very hard to quash a subpoena just by saying this shouldn't have happened. This is super political. You're just trying to investigate me because you don't like me. That doesn't happen very often. But in fact, Judge Bosberg had to find that clearly everybody understands that Jerome Powell was being politically persecuted, and that they're trying to prosecute him for disagreeing with the president. And so there's two different subpoenas. There's one about his testimony before Congress, and there's one the renovations that Trump is saying cost too much. It's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. It is so stupid.

0:08:14 Thomas: As he as he has this stupid ballroom and not even built in the background.

0:08:18 Lydia: Unbelievable.

0:08:18 Thomas: Yeah.

0:08:18 Matt: Yeah. And as the rest of this episode will show, the US government has no trouble spending money right now.

0:08:24 Thomas: Yeah, well, they're starting to have trouble spending money. They're starting to need a little help there with the military budget.

0:08:32 Matt: So, Boasberg quashed these two subpoenas and said they could not go forward with this criminal investigation. And Janine Pirro, who is, of course, to remind everybody, former Fox News host, the one of two former Fox news hosts we'll be talking about, who's helping to run our government today. And she's, yeah,

0:08:44 Thomas: Yeah well for the list for the listeners that we should say this the the the I don't think we read it or anything. The opinion starts, Jerome, too late pal has done it again. Exclamation points. He is too late, all caps, and actually too angry and too stupid and too political, all gaps to have the job of Fed chair. He has costing our country trillions of dollars. Put another way.

0:08:51 Lydia: We didn't. Yeah

0:08:53 Matt: In caps.

0:09:09 Thomas: Yeah.

0:09:02 Lydia: Dot dot dot an extra.

0:09:09 Thomas: Dot, space, dot, space, spot, space. Too late. Oh, no, that was OK. That's just the normal cap. Oh my god this is so insane put another way too

0:09:17 Lydia: No no put another way what he calls Jerome Powell is too late too late is his his nickname for Powell.

0:09:22 Thomas: Late is a oh it's his nickname okay

0:09:24 Lydia: Yeah put another other way too late it's a total loser

0:09:25 Thomas: The f the amount of effort that's put into inaccurate punctuation is like staggering like he's doing like comma and then like a single quote whatever like is a capital's total loser and our country tree, capital C, is paying the price. Okay, so that's what he, that's, this is, that is one of at least a hundred statements that the president or his deputies have made attacking the chair of the Federal Reserve and pressuring him to lower interest rates.

0:09:54 Lydia: That's crazy

0:09:54 Matt: This just keeps happening over and over again. The judges quote this ridiculous bullshit in these decisions, because it's just so obvious, like you can't miss, there's no nuance to what he's saying here, right? So he found there's a mountain of evidence that the dominant purpose of these subpoenas is to harass Powell, just for the purpose of no other reason, and that obviously this is political, and that he's making the very unusual step. He's going to the step of actually quashing the subpoena. So we're going to hear now from Janine Pirro and what she has to say. There is a 20 -minute press conference we're not going to watch very much of, but we're gonna watch the last few minutes when she really just hammers it home and makes some really good points, I'm sure you'll find.

0:10:27 Clip: Years

0:10:28 Thomas: I go to full screen and it just pushes play. That's cool. So helpful. Everything in the internet is so helpful now. It's all so helpful. AI, everything doing bullshit that I don't want it to do. Hasn't it gotten and great anyway and shitification of everything I guess we'll play it now

0:10:30 Lydia: Thanks obama mama yeah

0:10:45 Clip: Ago, I'll deal with the devil. I'll take a case from the devil if you can give me information that will lead me to possibly find a crime.

0:10:52 Thomas: What ma ma'am, this is a windys to possibly

0:11:01 Clip: It doesn't matter where a case comes from. It doesn't matter. I can have a suspicion. I CAN read the newspaper. I just want to make sure he He didn't commit a crime. So don't make the judges wrong on his dates. He is wrong.

0:11:03 Thomas: Find it what what

0:11:17 Clip: That's why we're not only appealing, we're making a motion to reconsider.

0:11:14 Thomas: One of those dates okay

0:11:22 Matt: Good luck. Yeah just the way she's saying openly I don't even care what your evidence is I'll do whatever it takes to find this guy committed a crime this is incredible uh this isn't even the good part this is just a little intro for you

0:11:33 Thomas: It's not the good part I thought you chimed in like you wanted me to stop oh okay

0:11:34 Matt: We got we got more coming oh

0:11:36 Clip: Okay, I want to say one more thing, and I think it's important that you guys hear this from me. There's another way of looking at this, and that is that it's not just the public being fed up with this stuff. It's the fact that what we've got are grand jurors who are supposed to hear this and they haven't been able to hear any of this because someone has decided that they're not entitled

0:11:36 Matt: No I just wanted to say that

0:12:01 Lydia: What

0:12:00 Thomas: Find the the paper you're looking for what is she fishing through her purse what

0:12:08 Clip: To hear this. Can you take this? Thanks. This process has been arbitrarily undermined by an activist judge. We have a process. We We have been asking for information about a matter that has raised questions in many people's minds. Senate banking, the public, the papers, it doesn't matter. So give me the information so I can assess it. Give me the info so the grand jury comprised of regular Americans can say there's nothing here and I'll accept it the way I accept other cases. Okay,

0:12:09 Thomas: What is yeah no

0:12:11 Lydia: In the world no

0:12:14 Matt: Her professional phone answer

0:12:34 Thomas: No one gives a shit I

0:12:49 Clip: Whatever it is, we'll abide by it. What we don't accept is a judge standing in front of the door of a grand jury blocking our access, a role that has never been envisioned, a roll that will now be used by other defense attorneys around the country who's going to come in with a client and say, oh, my, my client is being targeted. Don't you dare go in the grand jury. A judge says, yes, the guy's bathed and washed in immunity and

0:12:49 Thomas: Like very dynamic speaking technique you know single out someone to make eye contact with in the audience that's good it's really grabby wow podium smith yeah

0:13:10 Matt: That's what he's for bathed in immunity

0:13:24 Lydia: What

0:13:24 Clip: You can't go after him. The process should have been allowed to run its course and it wasn't and shame on them oh cut it out do you know how many convictions we've got cut it off you're in one lane we have cleaned up you know and shame on them oh cut it out you know many convictions we've cut it out you're in one lane we have cleaned up this city yeah historic really I'll tell you what's historic what's What's historic is that I prosecute everything other than 10 % of the cases where the United States attorney before me didn't prosecute 67 % of cases. That's what's

0:13:32 Thomas: She's broken the podium podium. What was the, I couldn't, what was the question? I couldn'T hear it. Hold on. Yeah. She makes too much noise. I can't even. One lane cleaned up this city.

0:13:47 Lydia: Cases in her office something wow

0:14:06 Matt: What

0:14:07 Clip: Historic. I'm willing to take a not guilty. I'm wiling to take and no true bill because I'll take all the crimes and put them in. Thank you. We are

0:14:17 Matt: Mic drop there she goes I mean there's so

0:14:20 Thomas: Podium drop. She should have dropped the podium. Like picked it up and this thing's broken. The judge broke broke my podium, getting in between me and you.

0:14:22 Matt: Much yeah just push it over yeah yeah there's so much to unpack here there's some much going on first

0:14:22 Lydia: Just knocked it over yeah like a cat man chaos that was just chaos

0:14:33 Matt: Of all I mean incredible I mean the idea that that first of al that just now defense attorneys are going to think of the idea that maybe protecting their clients because they're being targeted when you are in fact targeting people and you said at the beginning of what you just said I'll do whatever it takes to find a a crime here, right? So maybe that's something defense attorneys, right, right.

0:14:42 Thomas: Let's finish the sentence. Now every defense attorney is going to use this for their client dot, dot, dot whom Trump has tweeted about a hundred times. So yeah, for every single one of those, they'll probably do that. Maybe some that he's only tweeted about 50 times too. They should probably try you know I would say if he's tweeted about him at all you know and

0:15:06 Lydia: And I think that's reasonable I think it's reasonable for them to raise that as a concern like if that's actually happening yeah crazy

0:15:10 Thomas: And directed you a fucking tv idiot to go prosecute someone I think that's they probably you know should should have a good defense there yeah

0:15:19 Matt: I mean, the idea that a good prosecutor is somebody who brings all of the cases they can possibly bring that are in front of them versus, you know, like carefully weighing with discretion what you should actually be able to go forward on. She's like, I'll take a not guilty, I'll do anything. It's just, yeah. This is insane.

0:15:19 Lydia: Such as as the sandwich trial such as the sandwich trial

0:15:36 Thomas: Brought

0:15:36 Matt: Yeah? That's how we get there. That's how we get a messy sandwich trial.

0:15:41 Thomas: To you on gavel gavel pod by the way going through the sandwich trial new episode is probably out as we speak but uh if not very shortly thereafter. So, uh, we are going through that sandwich trial. It was fun and tasty. I'm hungry. What's next?

0:15:50 Matt: Good times. Brought to you by Janine Pirro. Couldn't do it without her. All right, so that's our Amuse-Bouche for today. And we're going to move on to less fun topics of looking at the war and sort of some angles, some legal angles, and also just sort of looking at how people talked about this stuff before we got to our present situation. As we were recording, the war is really heating up. Things are not going well, and this is all completely inevitable.

0:16:21 Thomas: Which is weird. Cause I think we've won it two to three times now.

0:16:22 Lydia: Well if you hear from Trump yeah and not just that they're in the middle of peace talks he says right now that they're they're negotiating and it's going well

0:16:29 Thomas: How many times do you have to win a war? I thought it was one, but it seems to be more than that, which is odd. Is it like, if are we, how many have we done? Is it it like we won first round yeah best of is it best three out of five is that where we're at yeah because we're up to uh we're gonna sweep this war running the table I

0:16:30 Lydia: Yeah like best of five yeah yeah the seven Seven game series.

0:16:43 Matt: Rock, paper, missiles, you know. Yeah. Now, he said that we are having peace talks if we can find somebody that the Israelis won't kill first, basically, to negotiate with.

0:16:56 Lydia: And then he's also announced, though, that they're sending troops over. Like a thousand troops, I think.

0:17:03 Thomas: Still think about boots on the ground or not on the table every day of mine that's my favorite thing I don't did we ever get that exact quote right I want to I want it tattooed on my arm boots on the ground are not off the table it's so good uh but anyway but then we got and this was a John Oliver is of course doing the best bits where it's like, they're going to land on that little Island maybe. And they're like, well, it's not boots on the ground.

0:17:03 Matt: But also, Also, we've already won... No, not at the table.

0:17:28 Thomas: That doesn't count. Yeah.

0:17:18 Lydia: Man. Yeah. Yeah. Boots on an island.

0:17:32 Thomas: They're wearing flip -flops. We put them in flip -clops. They're not in boots. It's fine.

0:17:35 Lydia: They're not actually in booths

0:17:36 Thomas: Crocs actually. I think Crocs would be great for war. Yeah, camo Crocs for sure.

0:17:38 Lydia: Camo crocs too yeah yeah that's

0:17:42 Matt: So one of the Trump promises that I think a lot of people may have actually believed was that he wasn't going to start any new wars. And so James Donald Vance, now our vice president, is pledging his allegiance to Donald Trump based on that premise in the piece we're about to read in the Wall Street Journal. So this is this one. Here we go.

0:17:57 Thomas: You mean this one he has my support he

0:18:04 Matt: Yeah, let's read the headline. And

0:18:04 Thomas: Said before I guess he was vp candidate was just kind of funny to look at in retrospect oh

0:18:08 Lydia: The one jd vance says he has my support in 2024 because I know he won't recklessly send Americans to fight overseas.

0:18:16 Matt: The headline is, Trump's Best Foreign Policy? Not Starting Any Wars. Good start. Good start. All right.

0:18:17 Thomas: Did someone already say the main title or oh yeah darn well we got his second best foreign policy oh well and we've got

0:18:28 Matt: All Right. Try to make some sense of this opening. It's quite an opening. Yes.

0:18:30 Thomas: Zielinski is the uh main

0:18:33 Matt: A little squirrel to look at here. A Little Distraction.

0:18:33 Thomas: Image yeah why

0:18:32 Lydia: A few days before America's 2022 midterm elections.

0:18:38 Thomas: Helpful sorry I have a thing in my high disabled never display go die is there another option die in a fire everything is so helpful

0:18:45 Matt: How about that? So

0:18:50 Lydia: A little sneak peek into living with Thomas, everybody. A few Days Before America's 22 Midterm Elections, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky accused Russia of firing a rocket into Poland. It was a claim with extraordinary implications. Poland, member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, benefits from the alliance's mutual defense pact. An attack against one is an attack against all. The U.S. would plausibly have an obligation to respond militarily to a Russian attack inside Poland. In making the accusation, Mr. Zelensky was pushing on the dominoes that could start the world's first war between nuclear powers. The rocket attack, it turns out, came not from Vladimir Putin's Russia, but from Ukrainian air defenses. Even after NATO made that assessment and acknowledged that Russia hadn't fired the rocket, Mr. Zelensky continued to deny Ukrainian responsibility. The story faded from the headlines, and Mr. Zelensky enjoyed a hero's welcome in Washington in December.

0:18:55 Thomas: Man that's almost as bad as bombing a school killing 150 children or whatever and then saying maybe they did it to themselves themselves that's almost as bad as that not that's actually not even close to as bad as that oh

0:20:03 Lydia: I agree. American taxpayer money has continued to flow to Ukraine. Crane a wiser foreign policy wouldn't have let such conduct go unnoticed

0:20:11 Matt: This is his opening story. The opening paragraph is about a mistake. This was just a mistake that the Ukraine didn't actually realize. This is one of their missiles that had gone astray. It took a while to figure this out. That is

0:20:21 Thomas: So that's true that's actually he said a true thing well

0:20:23 Matt: But I mean, Zelensky wasn't lying. He just didn't know at the time that it was actually not Russian and there was a lot of confusion. It take a while figure this. I mean it's not easy to track everything. So I guess his point is that Joe Biden should have like smacked Zelenski down and refused to support Ukraine because he was misrepresenting the fact.

0:20:39 Thomas: Well yeah cuz cuz Putin's never said anything untrue so it's you look at the two sides and you're like ah man well one of them said a mistake thing darn

0:20:42 Matt: He's straight shooter. Yep. It's incredible that this is what he's got, I guess, against the Biden administration is that we're too quick to believe Vladimir Zelensky. Vladimir, that's it.

0:20:55 Thomas: And it's like why would that that undermine the fact that like the poor Ukraine, like, honestly, I mean, they're doing their best, but like the couldn't happen at a worse time. And it's mainly our fault. I feel like, like I mean it's just like the worst time for that to have happened because I feel like any other time in the past 30 years, well, forget that past what I don't know, 60, 70 years, like we would have been all in on supporting them against Russia. And then, I guess that's why why they waited that long.

0:21:24 Matt: And now we've got J .D. Vance in the White House yelling at Zelenski that he's not grateful enough in that meeting. If you remember that. Yeah?

0:21:29 Lydia: My god he's

0:21:29 Thomas: So pathetic. The only thing that comforts me is that, and I, you know, we shouldn't make predictions like this, but I don't care. There is no fucking way JD Vance is ever going to be president. There's just no fucking Way.

0:21:38 Matt: Let's hope. Let's Hope.

0:21:40 Thomas: There there's no, I can't, I there's no way. Yeah. He's just not it. There. My only fear is that he did do his nice guy routine in the debate with Vance, uh, with, um, with walls.

0:21:41 Lydia: Too pathetic walls

0:21:51 Thomas: Uh, and, uh. And I guess if he tried to pull that that up. But if he tries to pull that off, like in order to win the primary, he has to be Hitler Jr. So like he would have to pivot from Hitler Jr. to being nice to everybody. I don't know. No way.

0:21:49 Lydia: Yeah well now you have like record yeah it would it would be insane honestly yeah I don't know I hope that is an accurate position that we're taking there. Bipartisan foreign policy consensus has led the country astray many times. Leadership in both parties supported the invasion of Iraq, the decades -long nation -building project in Afghanistan, regime change in Libya, and guerrilla war in Syria. All of these policies cost a lot of money and killed many. None of those conflicts has served the nation's long -term interest. Very few were ever challenged by a leader of national significance. That is,

0:22:04 Thomas: There's no way. Yeah. Syria thing is interesting. So we should have, I mean, I'm not exactly sure what he's referring to, but I mean I feel like it was probably good to try to support the citizens who were getting chemical weapons used on them by Assad. Am I?

0:22:51 Matt: Yeah... didn't cost us that much, I don't think, relatively speaking.

0:22:54 Thomas: I I'm sure it didn't. Yeah.

0:22:56 Matt: Not compared to what we're doing.

0:22:56 Lydia: Of course,

0:22:57 Thomas: And there weren't even any crocs on the ground in that one.

0:23:02 Lydia: Until Donald Trump came along. American partisans view Mr. Trump's record primarily through a domestic lens. To my fellow Republicans, Mr. To my fellow Republicans Mr. Trump lowered taxes and worked hard to deregulate the federal bureaucracy. Hypocrisy.

0:23:10 Thomas: But he's also awful on other things. Yeah.

0:23:19 Lydia: To Democrats, Mr. Trump was a corrupt narcissist who earned his two impeachments.

0:23:24 Lydia: Yet neither party acknowledges perhaps the most important part of Mr. Trump's legacy, his successful foreign policy. My entire adult lifetime has been shaped by presidents who threw America into unwise wars and failed to win them. I just started high school when George W. Bush was elected president, and his presidency is the first I remember with any detail. Mr. Bush allowed a just war war in Afghanistan to turn into a nation -building quagmire and then started an unjust war in Iraq. His successor, Barack Obama, doubled down on nation - building in Afghanistan and launched a new war of his own in Libya with the enthusiastic support of then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

0:23:37 Matt: That one. Never again.

0:23:56 Thomas: But, I mean, I get it that you can, you know, criticize Obama for stuff, but it's, like, it's fucking Bush. Like, if it weren't for Bush, who started all of that, like he, Obama inherited, at At that time, I specifically remember the Iraq war was obviously way unpopular, but the the conflict in Afghanistan like that was like seen as like, oh, that's the good war. That's the one back at that time when.

0:24:22 Matt: So he says it's a just

0:24:22 Lydia: That's the one that we were meant to do, yeah.

0:24:22 Matt: War.

0:24:24 Thomas: And like I don't think Obama would have started a war in Afghanistan apropos of nothing. I'm just saying.

0:24:33 Lydia: In Mr. Trump's four years in office, he started no wars despite enormous pressure from his own party and even members of his own administration.

0:24:40 Matt: I mean, he did try, to be fair. He did kill that Iranian general. Didn't work out, but it could have been a war.

0:24:43 Thomas: that'S right. Yeah I remember.

0:24:48 Matt: Could have had it.

0:24:48 Thomas: And there also was the day that Donald Trump became president famously. That was what did he bomb then that was something anywhere no where was that what was the day he became president oh come on no the day you guys okay that's it I

0:24:59 Lydia: January 20. What?

0:25:05 Clip: Became president of the United States in that moment, period. Period. There are a lot of people who have a lot of reason to be frustrated with him, to be fearful of him, to be mad at him. But that was one of the most extraordinary moments you have ever seen in American politics, period. And he did something extraordinary. And for people who have been hoping that he would become unifying, hoping that he might find some way to become presidential, they should be happy with that moment for people who have been hoping that maybe he would remain a divisive cartoon which he often finds a way to do they should begin to become a little bit worried tonight because that thing you just saw him do if he finds away to do that over and over again

0:25:28 Thomas: Of things that age really well, this is what happened in Trump one. Yeah. Yeah.

0:25:43 Matt: This was five days in. Yeah.

0:25:53 Thomas: Oh yeah.

0:26:00 Clip: He's going to be there for eight years now there is a lot that he said in that speech that was counterfactual that was not right that I oppose and will oppose but he did something tonight that you cannot take away from him. He became President of the United States.

0:26:00 Matt: He won't.

0:26:07 Thomas: Counterfactual. Yeah. Wow. I, I just, he became president of the United States that day. Uh, so I just w I see your age badly and I raise you 70. I go all in.

0:26:19 Matt: Wow. Forgot about that one. That

0:26:22 Thomas: This is the day that Donald Trump became president. This became, this was mocked for like the entire time since then. I feel like I was crazy that you guys haven't heard of this.

0:26:30 Lydia: I think I mine's like a protective mechanism that my brain has shut out certain things maybe

0:26:34 Thomas: That's so good. Good. And so then Megan Amram would tweet, this is the day that Donald Trump became president. Like every single time something dumb would happen, like something he would do. It's incredible.

0:26:44 Matt: And that was apparently after that raid in Yemen in which a U .S. soldier died. And he'd said some presidential stuff, the kinds of things that like, right,

0:26:51 Thomas: Cause if you send a, a, just a, a young man to their death, but then say presidentially things about it, that's you're the president, man. You're the president.

0:26:57 Lydia: That someone else wrote for you yeah yeah

0:27:01 Thomas: Oh, that'S incredible. Sorry. Okay. Just a little little detour brought to you by making sure

0:26:59 Matt: You're president. All right.

0:27:04 Lydia: Brought to you by van jones

0:27:08 Thomas: I wasn't in that black mirror episode where someone's changing things right from under me where were we uh oh yes trump's best foreign policy and

0:27:17 Lydia: In mr trump's four years in office he started no wars despite enormous pressure pressure from his own party and even members of his own administration. Not starting wars is perhaps a low bar, but that's a reflection of the hawkishness of Mr. Trump's predecessors and the foreign policy establishment they slavishly followed. But Mr. Trump did more than simply keep the peace. He brokered the Abraham Accords, a historic agreement between Israel and Sunni Arab states, providing the best hope of a long -term counterbalance to Iran. He began the long, slow process of decoupling the U .S. from its economic reliance on China. He opened diplomatic talks with North Korea after a half -century of stagnation, and he pushed hard, to much derision, for Europe to take more responsibility for its own defense, precisely so that the U .S. wouldn't be drawn so deeply and dangerously into a conflict like the one in Ukraine. A common critique of Mr. Trump, even from his ideological allies, is that he lacks, quote, statesmanship. Even people who like his policies wish he exercised more verbal restraint. Fair enough. But there's an implicit critique of America's leaders hidden below the surface of that accusation. Why is it that the people the U .S. trains for leadership are

0:27:41 Thomas: Look at them now yeah people value it yeah I

0:28:32 Lydia: So careful with their words, yet so reckless with their actions?

0:28:35 Thomas: Don't think that's implicit in what that I just love just Just every, the pseudo -intellectualism. There's an implicit critique hidden below that. No, you're just putting it there. You can't say it was there if you're putting it there.

0:28:36 Matt: Why can't they be reckless with their words too? Yeah. Right.

0:28:45 Lydia: Just try and find a little little gap. Yeah. Right. Why does America devote billions of dollars to recruiting and training its best young minds for leadership only to have those minds orchestrate one foreign policy disaster after another? The answer is that from grand strategy seminars to the State Department, our entire notion of statesmanship is broken. For many, statesmanship means having a polite social media presence and throwing out slogans about, quote, freedom and, quote democracy while while starting world -historic catastrophes in the Middle East. I prefer a different kind of statesmanship, one that stands athwart

0:29:21 Thomas: Well, it grabs them by the, well,

0:29:23 Lydia: The crowd, reminding leaders in both parties that the U .S. national interest must be pursued ruthlessly, but also carefully, with strong words but great restraint. Enter Pete Hegseth. Donald Trump's presidency marked the first real disruption to a failed consensus and the terrible consequences it wrought. That fact, more than any single accomplishment, is the enduring legacy of Mr. Trump's first term. But there is much more to do, and I'm supporting him for president in 2024 because he's the only person certain to do it. And he told me I get to be vice president. Yeah.

0:30:00 Thomas: Not yet, but yeah. Wow.

0:30:02 Lydia: Well, maybe he told him on the side. Who knows?

0:30:03 Thomas: That aged very well.

0:30:05 Lydia: Yeah.

0:30:06 Matt: About as well as anything we've ever read on this show.

0:30:08 Thomas: And it's with a signature smugness too. It's great when something so smug is so fucking stupid. Yep.

0:30:15 Matt: And wrong. Just completely wrong. Just absolutely demonstrably wrong. As of today, certainly. It was always wrong. But the idea that we're all ignoring his incredible foreign policy achievements when, I mean, the idea, anyway, and

0:30:17 Thomas: Just wrong.

0:30:23 Lydia: Man.

0:30:26 Thomas: Yeah. Of only bombing a few things and what, I mean, if you want to say it's better than Bush, sure. Yeah, it was better than bush. Yeah great.

0:30:33 Matt: Sucking up to Kim Jong -un. Yeah, right. Yeah.

0:30:37 Thomas: Excellent.

0:30:37 Matt: Didn't kill a million Iraqis, sure.

0:30:39 Thomas: It's a low, low bar.

0:30:40 Matt: But we're working on it. We're catching up.

0:30:42 Thomas: All right. Well, are we taking a break?

0:30:45 Matt: Yes, too.

0:30:46 Thomas: Well, let's take a break and then we're going to get to, boy, Matt, you are putting yourself through it. I don't know why you're doing this to yourself, but Matt has read allegedly a book, uh, wait, two.

0:30:56 Lydia: Not one. Two.

0:31:01 Thomas: How did he have so many crayons?

0:30:59 Matt: I speed ran these books. And so this

0:31:03 Thomas: He must've run out of crayons at a certain point.

0:31:04 Matt: Is the first time, I'll just say right now, this is the first time that I've ever listened to a book on 2X, like a lot of it. And he was reading it to me because I couldn't take it, but I've

0:31:12 Thomas: Man. Two X is my, I mean, I would've, I wouldn't have been at near, I would've been at like at least 2 .5 for this. That's, I can't.

0:31:15 Matt: Never done that before. It was hovering between 1 .5 and 2 for most of it, yeah.

0:31:23 Thomas: Holy shit. Okay. Well, Matt died for your sins, everybody. And we're going to take a break and thank some patrons who are making the show happen. Thank you to Punch's Stuffed Monkey Friend, a negative phenomenon, no more than a foot goat.

0:31:40 Lydia: Norma. Okay.

0:31:41 Thomas: It's not a palindrome. It was just no more than a foot goat. You got to fight for your rewrite to ex parte. Jay Sank, David Souther, vehicular man's laughter, reluctantly changing his blinker fluid. I'm forbidden to produce milk, milk in Wokey LA. And we only drink diet Coke, diet Coke. I don't know. Is that to the melody of something? It's like a song or something, but it's definitely where there's woke reference, but I'm not a hundred percent sure if that it It must be song lyrics that I don't know. Sorry. Proud to be one of the three chunkers.

0:31:43 Matt: We like our footcoats.

0:32:07 Lydia: I don't know. Yes.

0:32:19 Thomas: Today's episode is brought to you by The Letter and then Unreadable Thing. Classic.

0:32:24 Lydia: It's already classic.

0:32:25 Thomas: Yeah, cavalry. It's been like a month at least, maybe more. Thomas Freeman, Cajun Killa, Fraud Fishy Hates Everything, Chris Simpson, Gavelhead Chucking Away, Anonymous Akilah, Mark Schultz, Nuke, Hunt, Who Dis? Great.

0:32:28 Lydia: More. More

0:32:41 Thomas: Super funny. It does have nuke in it I guess at least all right uh then we'll take a break and uh then we'll be back with allegedly a book written by pete hegseth's mom no you're right I already couldn't handle that so I turned it back into one

0:32:41 Lydia: Two books written by Pete Hegseth yeah no it's two two whole books

0:33:02 Thomas: The war on warriors behind the betrayal of the men who keep us free yeah

0:33:10 Lydia: Down american flag

0:33:11 Matt: At some point, this would be a great book to go into depth on Where There's Woke because it's just about how Wilk destroyed the military. And it's, yes.

0:33:17 Thomas: I bet famously woke place that military you know they're just just nothing but trans people and you know just all kind they're just it's yeah you go there and everyone's just love bombing each other they're just there's no discipline what the fuck are you talking about so stupid I

0:33:25 Lydia: Everyone being too polite yeah yeah wow

0:33:35 Matt: I will say in the introduction, Pete Hegseth does say very specifically, I don't want you to enjoy reading this book. And trust me, Pete, you know, you got me. You're right. Mission accomplished.

0:33:43 Thomas: Guess that's one way to do it yeah I'm trying to write a bad book

0:33:48 Matt: Yes, you will not enjoy this. I did not. And honestly, though, I mean, both of these books, I'm going to say the other one has an even more ridiculous title and cover. We'll get to it next. But these books should have have been covered a lot more in his confirmation hearings, because there is, you can learn a lot about this man from, obviously, from the things he wants in writing, just like with Kristi Noem, when we looked at the dog and goat killing stories that, you know, the media covered, but like, you just have to hear her tell the story. I mean, it's the same kind of thing with him.

0:34:12 Thomas: She was so close to a dog and pony show but she had to do a goat

0:34:14 Matt: Dog and goat show. So Pete Hegseth is reading this book to us, and I am going to start with kind of a warm -up here, because the chapters, can you pull up actually the chapter listing, because there's some funny chapter titles in here too. But this is from the chapter all about why he got kicked out of the military, why he resigned from the military. He has so many different grudges that come out in the course of this book. And P .T. Hegseth, just to remind everybody, has a really interesting backstory. He's sort of a creature of empire in a way that I think every major empire has probably had this kind of a guy where he has gone... I mean, just think about it, just to very quickly give you the idea here. I don't want to get his biography completely wrong, but I'll just give you the very quick version. He signs up after 9 -11 wanting to defend the country, and he gets sent to Guantanamo Bay to watch people being tortured, basically. And then he gets disillusioned by that because he feels like we're not actually... I mean, he has a lot to say as we're going to hear about the laws of war and how they don't work. And he gets disallusioned because he goes to Iraq and he watches his buddies getting blown up by IEDs for no reason in a place we're supposed to be.

0:35:13 Matt: And the only time he's ever controlled any kind of group of people was a small squad of people. And he's just again and again, seeing that there's no reason we're supposed to be there. And it gets more and more disillusioned and drinking more and gets more and more upset and more burned out. And that's how we get pizza. I'm sure he was always a jerk to begin with. It sure seems that way. But yes, yes.

0:35:32 Thomas: But but what but it sounds like you're telling a backstory of like an anti -war you know peacenik but what is so is he like man we're not doing enough war crimes over here

0:35:42 Matt: That's why I wanted to listen to the book. He definitely thinks we're not doing enough war crimes. We'll hear about that at the next segment. But basically what I understood when he was being confirmed was that this is a man who wants to be very careful about how we use our troops because he thought all the idiots in DC were getting them killed all the time and sending them to stupid conflicts we didn't need to be in um so I did actually kind of believe

0:35:45 Thomas: What oh

0:35:58 Lydia: Here are some of the chapter titles. I pulled that up. Chapter two is titled Extremists That Never Were. Chapter three, Cowboys Led by Cowards. Chapter four, The Left's Very Special Forces. The deadly obsession with women warriors, riot

0:36:02 Matt: Please eight

0:36:17 Thomas: We're obsessed with women warriors that

0:36:19 Lydia: Shields and real racism, supporting DEI. Yeah. Supporting DEI means soldiers, D -I -E.

0:36:22 Matt: Is my favorite that's like the onion version of this book that is like yeah

0:36:31 Thomas: Has to be written in kran there's no like come on that's

0:36:33 Matt: It's so good yes

0:36:33 Lydia: Matt, more lethality, less lawyers. That's going to be good.

0:36:39 Matt: More

0:36:40 Thomas: The best he could do for that one more lethality less lawyers it's also fewer fewer lawyers so you didn't yeah

0:36:42 Lydia: Marxist adjacent military academies. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

0:36:41 Matt: Authority less lawyers yeah yeah so we're gonna be hearing right yeah but can't count them for the english uh we're going to bring from chapter six, the army thinks the enemy dot, dot, dot is Pete. So this is the story of Pete Hagseth's tattoos and how they ended up getting him excluded from the inauguration. We remember the story because we talked about this in a way, and it's been around a bit, but I was interested because I knew the backstory and how he tells the story. Just like when you hear Kristi Noem tell the story of the dog and the goat, what does she have to say about it? What does she want us to hear in her book in her own voice? So this is his explanation. And anybody who knows these tattoos and knows the story will sense the problem here. Let's listen to a little bit here of Pete Hegseth telling the story of why he ended up leaving the army.

0:37:04 Thomas: Oops

0:37:26 Matt: And remember, he's supposed to be serving at the inauguration in 2020, which is just weeks after January 6th, when the army is very concerned about possible extremists in its midst guarding Joe Biden. All right. He's

0:37:23 Thomas: Okay all right I think I can do this oh oh man

0:37:38 Clip: Army, but not the DC National Guard. But what was the real reason my orders were revoked to help guard the inauguration? The question irked me long after leaving the unit. When I left, I left it all behind. I didn't ask questions, I just got the hell out. But now, while researching this audio book, I had to know.

0:38:00 Thomas: You just went to witness

0:38:01 Clip: So I called a senior leader in the unit and asked him, Sir, will you just give me the real reason I was not invited to Biden's inauguration? There was a long pause over the phone, then breathing.

0:38:01 Thomas: Protection yeah

0:38:15 Matt: Just too damn handsome.

0:38:17 Clip: Man, this must be bad. It must be what I thought.

0:38:17 Thomas: Then breathing no he's masturbating

0:38:22 Clip: The leader said to me, Look, Major, I know with 99 .99 % certainty because I was in the meetings and on the emails. He paused again as if that was all I needed to know I wanted more so I pushed okay sir what happened okay so you were not brought to the inauguration because they dubbed you an extremist he stopped started again and then hesitated you

0:38:23 Thomas: More

0:38:24 Lydia: Must be what I thought.

0:38:41 Thomas: Than the nothing

0:38:43 Lydia: Yeah.

0:38:55 Thomas: Stop

0:38:57 Clip: Were nicht brought to the inauguration because they dubbed you as a white nationalist and an extremist you got flagged by two soldiers who had been trolling your social media they saw your tattoo and the tattoo was what they flagged you on I have many tattoos which one made them say that this is outrageous yeah well major hegseth it is quite absurd the cross on your chest was what they determined was what made you an

0:38:58 Thomas: Started again and then hesitated hesitated

0:39:29 Clip: Extremist and domestic threat.

0:39:30 Thomas: Yeah well you see it was the white nationalist ones that did it

0:39:31 Clip: That cross, it was determined, is a tattoo of a white nationalist extremist. It's a Jerusalem cross! Did they even Google it? The Jerusalem cross represents Christ's sacrifice and the mission to spread his gospel to the four corners of the world.

0:39:38 Thomas: That's because it is yeah

0:39:50 Clip: There is one large cross in the middle and four smaller crosses on each corner. This was part of the coat of arms after 1203 A .D. and the 104 -year reign of the Jerusalem Kingdom.

0:39:50 Matt: Kind of. Kind of from

0:40:04 Clip: I got it after I saw it on a church while walking the streets of Jerusalem. It's a religious symbol, not a white nationalist symbol. Yet my detractors made the argument that I was a threat, a racist, and an extremist, not qualified to guard the inauguration. I was told that a few of my unit leaders tried to stand up for me, but it was futile. The D .C. Army National Guard leadership was clear. Block him. As was relayed to me later, they literally said, quote, Hegseth needs to stay the fuck away, end quote.

0:40:46 Matt: DC.

0:40:46 Clip: Just like New York, Hegsath needs to say the fuck way. But was this really about a cross?

0:40:51 Thomas: Like new york what are

0:40:52 Lydia: Another story I guess he talked about.

0:40:54 Clip: Was this really about one Christian man, a Christian man with no history of doing any restoring

0:40:55 Thomas: We still going matt or what did you say okay

0:40:58 Matt: Well, let's take a quick look at his tattoos. Yeah, let's take a look at his tattoos. We can go to the record here. So that is basically it. Now, that is not the whole story. That is not. And I think he knows that when he's writing this book and reading it, because we know that because the officer who gave him this information told the Associated Press, the Washington Post, I think in Reuters also, I was looking at different stories here, that that was not the tattoo that did it. Let's take a look at the tattoos. We have the record here.

0:41:23 Lydia: Did he also say that he, you know, started, stopped, hesitated? Did he explain explain the way that he had that conversation, then hesitated.

0:41:24 Matt: This is the famous one. Yeah, right, right.

0:41:23 Thomas: Well here's here's this one hesitated he started no he stopped then started then hesitated which is really I don't think he's a reliable narrator I'll be honest with you it's really like he started but stopped then hesitated how do you differentiate between a starting and not saying anything and hesitating

0:41:45 Lydia: Also, they're on the phone, aren't they? So, yeah.

0:41:48 Matt: I'd like to keep this image up as little as possible. So let's just talk about this very quickly.

0:41:49 Thomas: I don'T believe any of that yeah

0:41:53 Lydia: So sorry that Pete Hegseth is on your screens, folks, if you're watching us on YouTube.

0:41:56 Thomas: To the listeners you're lucky

0:41:58 Lydia: Yeah, Thomas, would you like to describe Pete Hegset to the listeners?

0:42:00 Matt: We've got... Definitely.

0:42:04 Lydia: Describe his muscles, please. No, don't. I'm gonna go.

0:42:07 Thomas: So I mean he's got whatever that tattoo is and then he's also got a flag with a gun as part of the flag that's yeah and then some other dumb shit

0:42:14 Matt: Yeah, that's not... So we're gonna look at the other tattoo in a minute, but this was just one of the tattoos that got him flagged. It's the combination. So the Jerusalem Cross, by the way, he's inviting you to Google it, but when you Google it you can see it is a very well -known white supremacist symbol because it is Crusader Cross. It is like... And as we'll find out, he is all about the Crusades. He really, really likes the Crusade specifically. Specifically.

0:42:23 Lydia: It's the combination.

0:42:30 Thomas: I mean he even in his own telling me not knowing much about this he's like it's totally normal it's from you know the 1200s when we wanted to spread christ's message to the four corners of the earth oh yeah you're right that's chill never mind yeah like like I'm sure I'm sur uh uh pete if there was a soldier who had a like an islamic tattoo that was all about islam and spreading islam and the quran to the four corners of the earth you'd be like yeah no that's that's cool that's that's just cool times just part they're just celebrating their religion I'm

0:42:48 Lydia: And killed anyone in our way that wanted to prevent us from doing it. Yeah.

0:43:10 Lydia: Well, I can tell you specifically he has a tattoo that's an Arabic word meaning infidel. And it is tied to Islamophobia. Like these are like there are biker gangs with this tattoo specifically like that are not OK with Islam at all.

0:43:26 Thomas: Sorry you are so dedicated to your dumb bigotry that you're getting a tattoo in the language of the thing the people that you hate that says they don't like you what kind of psychopath do you have to be to do something like that that is the weirdest thing oh

0:43:39 Lydia: That you don't. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:43:48 Matt: Well, let's go look at the tattoo that actually flagged him. Because again, the Jerusalem Cross is an indicator. And you can see it looks just like the iron cross, the Nazi iron cross. But it is like a very well -known white supremacist symbol. But this other one, the bicep picture that I've also sent you is, yes,

0:44:00 Thomas: Thank god there's a little bit less of P -TECH Seth in this one I do appreciate that

0:44:02 Lydia: We can pretend that's on somebody else, maybe.

0:44:03 Matt: You can't see his face. And this is in sort of German script, it says Deus Vult. And so, this is a very well -known white supremacist thing. So, in combination, you have alarm bells going off.

0:44:13 Lydia: It means God wills it for folks who are listening that have not heard that before.

0:44:16 Matt: And yes, and that's a very -well -known thing throughout history of white supremacy and Christian nationalism. And again, remember, we're talking weeks after January 6th when there are people inside the United States government that have helped to coordinate a possible takeover of Congress in a violent riot in which people died. And so the military is very reasonably going through and thinking maybe we don't want every single person that could be showing up to guard Joe Biden.

0:44:39 Lydia: And I think it's one of those things, too, where in any other context, Pete Hegseth is not going to have a problem with law enforcement profiling people because of tattoos that they have on their body, right?

0:44:52 Matt: Yeah.

0:44:52 Lydia: It can be unfortunate potentially, but yeah.

0:44:54 Thomas: You can deport someone for a nothing tattoo

0:44:58 Lydia: And I do think it's important to consider it's the combination of these two things. This was really, really popular. It was on flags at the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville. These specific two images together are the word and the image of the Jerusalem cross together. The president and executive director for the Center for Peace Diplomacy said that combination specifically is, quote, an invocation of the claim that crusader violence and its atrocities, including the massacre of civilians, was legitimate. And so I think it's perfectly reasonable for someone to be concerned when they see that on a body of someone who's meant to protect the next president.

0:45:28 Thomas: Also just fucking look at him or listen to him for five seconds oh

0:45:38 Matt: Oh yeah. When you hear more of this book, again, if you have read his book, that's a good reason not to let him go to the inauguration either. I will tell you that. But I will say that, yeah, it was very much like this one. There's a much bigger red flag than the cross, but as Lydia said, in combination.

0:45:51 Matt: But again, there's a reason, again, he's crafting this the best he can to tell this story. And he is not mentioning the Deus Vult. He actually mentions Deus Vult later in one of his other books. He talks about what a great expression is. But he knows, he should know, that that was the thing that really did it. Because that's what the commander, I think they put it in writing, but the guy freely told the press.

0:46:06 Lydia: Wills it is such a great expression.

0:46:11 Thomas: He for sure had that tattoo at that time it wasn't like he got it after okay just making sure

0:46:15 Matt: That was definitely in the picture. And, you know, they're going through soldier social media to try to see if there's anything at all, like in the people they're screening that might flag them. And you've got known white supremacist, white nationalist stuff. And in this book, by the way, he basically says that it's time, he says that normal dudes have always fought and won our wars. And he makes it very clear. He says it explicitly. He means white men, straight white men specifically.

0:46:39 Matt: And he's very concerned that the army isn't recruiting enough normal dudes and that they're driving normal dudes away. And so normal dudes with a Deus Vult and Jerusalem cross tattoos.

0:46:38 Thomas: Who's

0:46:48 Lydia: Very normal.

0:46:49 Matt: Yeah. And so, I mean, again, we're going to build a profile here, but you'll see the crusader stuff is not subtle at all. He really, really likes the crusades and he thinks we should do another one, which is, as we're speaking, kind of what we're doing.

0:47:01 Thomas: We I I haven't done any crusades matt I don't know what you're and I'm not a christian so I'm Not part of the we that has done crusades

0:47:05 Matt: Well, you're paying for one. So, yeah.

0:47:10 Lydia: He also has a cross and sword tattoo, which he specifically says is it demonstrates the militant aspect of his faith. So, you know, like you put all these things together, Pete Hegseth, and you are obviously an extremist.

0:47:20 Matt: Not subtle.

0:47:22 Thomas: Again make it make it muslim and see how much you like it oh well this is the part. This is the suicide bomb that I have a tattoo on just for the militant part of my religion.

0:47:34 Lydia: Right, man.

0:47:35 Thomas: You would love it.

0:47:36 Matt: Big, big theme.

0:47:36 Thomas: You'd be big, big fans.

0:47:38 Matt: Big theme in his writing is that Islam is not a religion of peace and Christianity is. We have to go out there and spread the gospel with the sword.

0:47:38 Lydia: Man yeah

0:47:43 Thomas: And if you say anything else, I'm going to beat the shit out of you.

0:47:45 Matt: That's right, that's right. Totally. No, I mean, he was at one point, not that long ago, he's not that one year, dragged out of a bar, drunk, screaming death to Muslims. Like he's, you know, yeah,

0:47:46 Lydia: Yeah exactly so good yeah when

0:47:49 Thomas: Listen here, you dweebs. I need the beer. Oh, my God. Wait, what?

0:47:58 Matt: Yeah.

0:47:58 Thomas: That happened?

0:47:57 Lydia: He does that sorry wait wait I missed it what oh death to muslims

0:47:59 Matt: He was screaming death to Muslims while drunk in a bar one night, not while he was defense editor, obviously, but while he was, allegedly he's not been drinking since he started the job.

0:48:08 Thomas: That's like a... Was there a video of that?

0:48:10 Lydia: I think it was brought up during his confirmation hearing

0:48:12 Matt: Yeah, yeah, it was.

0:48:13 Thomas: Holy shit.

0:48:14 Matt: All right, so that's just kind of an introduction to Pete Hegseth telling us, yeah.

0:48:15 Thomas: That's... I feel like that's a bigger deal than we're saying here, which is somebody's like death to a particular religious group of people. Imagine if it were death to Jews, how much a lot of people would react to that. But death to Muslims, we

0:48:21 Lydia: I know I know well I mean all of his buddies apparently were doing that at Unite the Right you know they have the matching tattoos so I yeah I don't know this guy's bad deal

0:48:38 Matt: They're tattoo buddies. That's right. All Right. Let's go on to the next clip here.

0:48:43 Lydia: Sticking with this book though

0:48:44 Thomas: Done with that? We done with that selection?

0:48:44 Lydia: Nope uh that selection

0:48:46 Matt: Yeah, that's all we need there. That is more than enough.

0:48:49 Thomas: All right, where do we go from here?

0:48:51 Matt: Allright, now we're going to talk about Pete Hegseth's views on the laws of war just to get a little more relevant to this show uh I thought this is interesting because he said some really weird stuff about how much he hates the laws of war let's just play a couple of those clips we've got some youtube clips here of petexeth talking about you might have heard some of these but I think hearing them back to back is especially helpful uh

0:49:10 Thomas: Right let's see uh what he's gonna say here warrior

0:49:13 Clip: Victory and clarity as an end state restoring intentionality to the use of force so that your direction Mr. President the war department is going to fight decisively not endless conflicts it's going to fight to win not not to lose we're gonna go on offense not just on defense maximum lethality not tepid legality violent effect not politically correct we're going to raise up warriors not just defenders so this war department mr. president just like America is back thank you for restoring victory unlike

0:49:46 Thomas: Poets more like oh god it cut off I guess wow

0:49:53 Lydia: Man

0:49:52 Matt: He got some bars there. He is rapping. He freestyles. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, tepid legality. Lethality, not tepid legality.

0:49:55 Thomas: Spitting bars cool tepidly galley

0:50:02 Matt: Yeah?

0:50:02 Thomas: Mm -hmm yeah

0:50:03 Lydia: So is he just wanting to drop like like a nuclear bomb everywhere like just you know that maximum lethality and who cares about laws who cares About you know anything like that like just end it you know get it done

0:50:15 Matt: Because anything in the defense of basically once we're in a war, not putting anybody at risk and just taking out anybody we possibly can. He complains a lot in one of these books about how the Biden administration had been very careful about killing civilians. He thinks that's a real problem. We might hear some of that, but yeah. So that announcement, by the way, that was in the White House when he's talking about the Department of War. He does say in the book, he thinks it should be the Department of war, not the Department of Defense, because that's what it's for. It's for waging wars, not for defending us.

0:50:32 Thomas: Fucking wokest and

0:50:46 Matt: So let's hear it. One more quick clip here. This is in the context of the more recent conflict.

0:50:50 Clip: Many of our traditional allies who wring their hands and clutch their pearls hemming and hawing about the use of force. America, regardless of what so -called international institutions say,

0:51:00 Thomas: That's just a lot of props that's a lot of like coordination I was just thinking they're wringing their hands clutching their pearls and hemming and hawing that's like a tap your head rub your chin like times infinity

0:51:08 Lydia: Hemming and hawing yeah too too many stage directions pete you

0:51:15 Thomas: I can't do it Pete I can' I'm trying uh how do you hem and haw is that hem and hawing this is hard I'm tired of

0:51:24 Matt: Not when I'm clutching my pearls, I'm not doing that. Yeah, no, it's...

0:51:26 Thomas: I know I can'T clutch my pearls and wring my hands is that what yeah wow pete

0:51:28 Matt: And make those noises. Yeah.

0:51:31 Lydia: Have to use your feet for one of them I think is the the deal just kill

0:51:33 Thomas: I'm only hemming and hawing because of how hard this is

0:51:37 Clip: Is unleashing the most lethal and precise air power campaign in history, all on our terms with maximum authorities. No stupid rules of engagement, no nation building quagmire, no democracy building exercise, no politically correct wars. We fight to win and we don't waste time or lives.

0:51:55 Thomas: I'm tired of these politically correct wars guys

0:52:00 Clip: Unlike -

0:51:54 Lydia: Everybody wow yeah

0:52:00 Thomas: I'm tire like that is a parody of anti -wokeness that I you can't I wouldn't have accepted it would have been too dumb as a parody if someone was like I've been like yeah that's a little too like you're going too far with your joke and these politically correct wars everybody enough I don't

0:52:09 Lydia: What what is a politically correct war like give me an example

0:52:21 Matt: You guys, have you already forgotten that supporting DEI means soldiers D -I -E? Have we forgotten the lesson already?

0:52:26 Lydia: Die yeah

0:52:25 Thomas: Yeah I still wouldn't call it a politically correct war oh

0:52:32 Matt: And just to show that it wasn't a politically correct world, we kicked it off by bombing a girl's middle school and it's just horrible, horrible stuff. I mean, he's talking about precision and inlethality and not being politically correct and just wiping it out, apparently on really old information or something. We still don't have a good explanation for this.

0:52:38 Thomas: Truly horrible yeah yeah it was old information it wasn't ai ever yeah there's been a lot of coverage of that um just incompetence It sounds like, you know, because he fired the JAGs. I think he's also part of it is that he's gotten rid of enough people that I think that somehow was part of it, like like not enough people reviewing, you know, looking this over.

0:52:56 Matt: A terrible way to start. Yes, it's got to be relevant, right?

0:53:08 Thomas: But that's

0:53:08 Lydia: Like like actually reviewing intelligence and stuff yeah

0:53:10 Thomas: It. It's it's hard to want to bring down the show. But yeah, since you mentioned it, that's fucking atrocious. And we are the bad guys. Like, I don't understand how people in this country can go around thinking we have some moral high ground when we bombed a school of children and killed it's like 150 of them right something like that hundred I I

0:53:18 Lydia: Unequivocally yep uh I think I think just under that 135 or something I think yeah

0:53:34 Matt: Plus

0:53:34 Thomas: Don't like folks I imagine how you would feel if that happened to you like just imagine how he would feel don't you think like I I always think this I would become a terrorist like I don't know why people have this idea that you can bomb terrorists out of existence. Like, you kill my children, I would be a terrorist. I don't even need whatever religious stuff. Throw that in too. Maybe that helps. Maybe it, you know, lubes it up a little bit. But it's a joke. Wouldn't you hate any country that did that to you? And think about that. And we've done this times a billion. The drone strike, even under Obama, is one of the probably the worst part of Obama's administration. Like a lot of that stuff was done under Obama too. Like drone droning you know innocent people um and then there's one story I remember where it's like the guy's trying to even get like money to bury his family that were droned and that was a struggle like it's we've been doing this shit forever but this is particularly

0:53:55 Lydia: You just create more yeah yeah yeah

0:54:36 Thomas: Bad I can't imagine thinking we have any moral high ground here whatsoever yeah

0:54:42 Matt: This kind of recklessness, unfortunately. I mean, just think about on the other side of it, the US soldiers that now know they have to live with knowing that even though they were following orders, that they killed all those kids.

0:54:55 Matt: You So we are going to, I was interested to know from these books, I mean, I, again, I don't know how much you can actually learn about the inner lives of people who don't have inner lives, but these are Christian Hohmann and Peter Hegseth. But, you know, you can learn something. In the same way that I love reading Supreme Court biographies, like, I've read several different books about Clarence Thomas just to try to understand the guy. Like, how did he come out that way, right? And I think that Hegsith is a really interesting, as I said, sort of psychological portrait of a man who was a victim of our empire. Again, I think he was probably an asshole to begin begin with, but he's been through quite a lot on our behalf. And this is the conclusions he's reached. But one of the things that I thought he had reached, one of The Conclusions I thought he'd reached, was that we should be careful about how we use the military. And clearly, that is not a lesson that he has learned in his life. This is super reckless, everything we're doing right now. So I'm going to listen a little bit here, too, because I was particularly interested legally in what he's saying about how he doesn't care about the laws of war. As Thomas mentioned, he fired a lot of the senior JAGs who were supposed to be advising and signing off on targets and analyzing this stuff from a legal perspective. And that was one of

0:55:52 Thomas: Mean the tepid legality

0:55:53 Matt: Typical legality get

0:55:53 Thomas: Matt he fired the uh department of tepid legality yeah

0:55:57 Matt: Rid of those suits who needs them all right so we're going to hear a little bit about him talking about his opinions about the laws of war so we've got to

0:55:58 Thomas: Just tired of them naysaying and saying don't bomb schools like don't bomb school fucking politically correct I

0:56:07 Matt: The this chapter is the lawsofwar comma for winners this is how you win wars yeah

0:56:11 Lydia: Chapter 11

0:56:13 Thomas: Can't they're unironically just saying the bad things but like unironical for that like when you say like oh history is written by the victors you know you usually mean that like kind of in a negative way like it's kind of the it's going to be a different version of the truth you know and they're like no history's written right yeah let's do that let's yeah we get to do whatever the f we want oh boy let's see here so chapter 11 six minutes oh man I'm I'm mad at you me and the seagulls

0:56:13 Lydia: Six minutes six

0:56:33 Matt: We're the winners yeah so yeah that's good taste here yeah

0:56:40 Lydia: Minutes more

0:56:46 Thomas: Are mad at me for this I'm never gonna forgive you how

0:56:48 Clip: To act, end quote. Jus ad bellum, established in the UN Charter after World War II, lays out the conditions under which states may resort to war. It's how you go to war justly. Once the firing starts, modern countries are directed to follow the laws of war, referred to as jus in bello. This is how you fight war justLY. It was supposed to be a global remedy, a rule book to end senseless violence. Before you break glass for war, use ad bellum asks, is this a just cause? Do you have the right authority? Do you maintain the right intention? Is there a reason for the chance of success? Will you display proportionality? Is this a last resort? Then once you are separating meat from bone in battle, once the carnage has commenced, Jus in Bello asks, are you fighting with proportionality? Are you discriminating between civilian and military targets? Are the objectives strictly military? World War I was so brutal, so unabashed, there was a clamoring for some formally imposed restrictions on what countries could do to each other. The Geneva Conventions became a Jus in

0:57:32 Thomas: Could what gross just wake

0:58:10 Clip: In Bello international law of sorts, limiting the barbarity of conflict between nations, guaranteeing that a military force would wear a uniform, honor a chain of command. The conventions post -World War I established what would happen if you surrendered on the battlefield. The conventions signed at Geneva were to make humane what was never thought of to be humane, warfare. With rules in war, if you wear a unicorn and surrender, all your soldiers will also put down their rifles. More lives are spared.

0:58:10 Thomas: Me up when this is over I can't I can'T BE BEING LECTURED BY THE FUCKING DUMBEST KID IN CLASS RIGHT NOW oh you were sold wait

0:58:47 Clip: If you wear a uniform, you don't fire on civilians who are not in uniform. More lives ARE spared. And if you promise to protect soldiers who surrender, more soldiers will be incentivized to not fight to the death. More lives...

0:58:47 Thomas: What is

0:59:04 Clip: Are spared."

0:59:03 Lydia: Lives are spared

0:59:03 Thomas: This is he saying this is bad well

0:59:05 Matt: Is bad yes so

0:59:06 Clip: The problem with international law, of course, is that there's no such thing as international police to enforce it. The key question of our generation of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is way more complicated. What do you do if your enemy does not honor the Geneva Conventions?

0:59:14 Matt: Who cares right

0:59:24 Thomas: That's why famously those nazis hanged themselves after uh world war II yeah

0:59:29 Matt: Good no no one to police them.

0:59:30 Lydia: So he's he's basically saying like like this, this has good intent, but there's no promise that people are going to follow it. So don't do it either. Is that what he's getting at?

0:59:31 Thomas: Who

0:59:39 Matt: So the thesis very much of this book and the next one is that we are up against an enemy that has no respect for human life and doesn't give a shit about the rules.

0:59:47 Thomas: What what the fuck enemy are you talking about was

0:59:49 Matt: It's the one he made up. Yeah, he's got a cartoon version of the left and he has a cartoon version of Islam. And one of his theses, and I think in the other book is that everything you've heard about Islam is wrong.

0:59:51 Lydia: Islam. Mm hmm.

0:59:59 Thomas: Don't call it that man one of

1:00:01 Matt: Sorry.

1:00:01 Thomas: The idiot scrawlings that he did yeah

1:00:04 Matt: One of his presumptions is that the majority of people who practice Islam are actually super violent and not peaceful people. So we have to start from that starting point. Now, it's weird because he's talking about how World War I, in which the rules were out the window. There were no rules. I mean, we invented chemical warfare. We used it in a way that has never been used, but again, everything, it was just like the most brutal, horrific industrial battle.

1:00:05 Lydia: One of his tweets.

1:00:25 Thomas: This is the probably probably the worst thing to ever happen in humans.

1:00:27 Matt: Completely pointless on top of

1:00:29 Thomas: Awful.

1:00:29 Matt: That. And so he's saying, we invented all these international rules after that, but now we've got an enemy that doesn't respect them the way that I respect them, Pete Hegseth, even though he's going to tell you he doesn't respect them at all. So he's gonna be justifying. And a lot of this, this is all fascism, of course. Fascism requires you to throw the rules out the window and say that we're in a state of exception and that our enemies are awful and we have to behave like them.

1:00:50 Thomas: But does he really just speak in a general sense or is he talking about a specific like, like, it's just weird to me to be talking about an enemy and rules of war when we're not at like, what war is he taking about? Just in general or like next one?

1:01:04 Matt: And that's, well, he's lived through a few of them now. He's talking about Islam. That's what he's really talking about. He sang basically like, you know, this was all good and nice when white people were fighting each other. But now, you have to deal with this, these barbarians. So let's listen a more of a taster it's gonna I just want to set that up

1:01:22 Clip: We asked it all the time, especially if we want to win. And for all the briefings, PowerPoint slide decks, and lectures, it was never clear.

1:01:28 Thomas: He talks like Tucker Carlson.

1:01:31 Clip: Clear.

1:01:31 Lydia: That Fox News lesson.

1:01:32 Clip: We never got an answer, only more war, more casualties, and no victory. Should we follow the Geneva Conventions?

1:01:33 Thomas: It was just idiot brain. Yeah. What

1:01:43 Clip: What if we treated the enemy the way they treated us? Would that not be an incentive for the other side to reconsider their barbarism? Hey, Al -Qaeda, if you surrender, we might spare your life. If you do not, we will rip your arms off and feed them to hogs. Makes me wonder, in 2024, if you want to win, how can anyone write universal rules about killing other people in open conflict? Especially against enemies who fight like savages, disregarding human life in every single instance. Maybe instead, we are just fighting with one hand behind our back, and the enemy knows it. This is a big reason there hasn't been a war declared declared globally since the 1950s, and, quite frankly, why America hasn't won a war since World War II.

1:01:42 Matt: Keep your sexual fantasies out of this man because we follow the

1:02:38 Clip: If the world cannot agree on principles of honor or morality, how can we ever prescribe global terms of fair war? Land warfare, historically understood, is defined by how many people you can slaughter in one space at one time, limiting the will and capacity of your enemy me to fight.

1:02:38 Matt: Rules that's why yep

1:02:54 Thomas: This wasn't worth the work but just imagine I just want you to imagine it yeah

1:02:59 Clip: Same goes for bombing, missiles, and drone strikes. Just a different delivery mechanism. War will never be anything but hell as long as human nature stays deceptive, vengeful, and angry. Much to the chagrin of utopians and progressives, human nature has not changed and will not change. We are flawed. We're sinful. Men will always fight other men.

1:03:02 Lydia: What are we doing? Yeah that's the goal now this

1:03:05 Thomas: What's what are we doing

1:03:27 Clip: Many efforts to curb the bloodlust on the battlefield have been attempted. The Kellogg -Briand Pact of 1928, which was essentially betrayed hours after the ink dried on it, tried to assure that nations would not use war to resolve conflicts. It did nothing to prevent World War II, yet was used to sentence Japanese and German soldiers and officers to death in the aftermath of the conflict that it had so egregiously failed to prevent. Article 51 of the united nations made war legal only if you were attacked the escalation of that war was left tbd to

1:03:26 Thomas: What a dork yeah

1:03:27 Lydia: Is so dark arbitrarily

1:04:06 Clip: Be determined illegal wars continued and violence still escalated if our warriors are forced to follow rules arbitrarily and ask to sacrifice more lives so that international tribunals feel better about them

1:04:09 Thomas: What that means sorry what was that is that end of list here's my examples they're from fucking a hundred years ago and that's why today we shouldn't have to do rules yeah

1:04:27 Matt: You know murder has been outlawed for a long time and people just keep doing it so what's the point why are we prosecuting murder yep I remember a couple of things this is a man who got his political career started not only through fox news but by advocating for war criminals it's something to keep in mind as you're listening to this. They're not just speaking out for soldiers who are wrongfully accused, but people who are bona fide war criminals whose peers, like Eddie Gallagher, the rest of the unit is backing away slowly.

1:04:36 Thomas: I guess yeah let's yeah can't have logan's murder what's what are we doing oh yeah god so awful so awful their actual own unit turned them in

1:04:59 Matt: Yeah, right. And he's all about it. Also, Clint Lawrence, I wanted to mention, and Green Beret Major Matt Goldstein, who murdered 300 Afghan men who were walking away with their hands up and crowing about it, people that were just committing murder because they could. And And Pete Hegseth went to bat and convinced Trump that he could pardon all these people and make sure they didn't get prosecuted. Pete Heagseth, also remember, the person who's reading this book, one of the first major uses of military power was to just start hitting fishing boats in the Caribbean, right? This is all I can think about when I'm hearing him talking about this, about how we have to throw the rulebook out because of these barbarians and these horrible... What? Who are we talking about?

1:05:19 Thomas: Unfucking believable this sounds like a dude who would yell death to all muslims and actually try to like he just wants to kill all all Muslims.

1:05:38 Matt: In a bar. Yeah.

1:05:41 Thomas: I don't, if, if you are saying, talking about crusades and you have crusader tattoos and you are pardoning people who are literal murderers, you're advocating for people who just gunned down innocent Muslims. I think that means you just are a fucking racist who wants to kill all Muslims, I'm pretty sure that's what that means. I don't need your tattoos, actually. You're just awful.

1:05:41 Matt: No. And he wants an excuse.

1:05:43 Lydia: He he wants yeah right yeah yeah he's doing this in the name of christ right like like he is in the crusades

1:06:07 Matt: Yeah.

1:06:07 Thomas: Awful.

1:06:08 Matt: Yes. Yes. Well, there is more here and we don't need to keep going, but you'll get the idea. But he's basically just talking again about how both domestic restrictions and international restrictions on war are pointless and how we just need to do whatever we're going to do to protect our people. So this really is a good mind, a good sort of view into his, I guess I'm going to call it thinking, but I don't know how much of this came up with the confirmation hearing. Now, in his other book that we're gonna get to after the break, he goes on about his domestic enemies and about the left and like a super cartoony version of the left. Everything he says about the left would apply very well to everything that's going on in our government today about how these extreme ideologues are running everything and forcing their will through. I think at one point I wrote down, they are dangerous idiots and they are in charge. Amen. So I think you get the idea. We can keep going on this, but I don't think we really need to. He's complaining about how Biden was trying not to kill civilians and he really has a problem with that and how we have to just let our war Warfighters do whatever they're going to do to get the job done, whatever that job is.

1:06:59 Lydia: He's a horrible person.

1:07:08 Thomas: Well, we'd better, I guess, take our third break. Right. And then we can get to more of this genocide, aspiring genocidal maniac here. Here.

1:07:10 Matt: Few more things at the end.

1:07:20 Thomas: Cheery stuff. But you know what is cheery stuff? It is our patrons. And we've got to thank our final third here. Thank you to the Cincinnati Kid, Blah Blah Blaz Law Podcast. Philly Basement Bar will be getting a new house rep in the midterms. Elect Thomas Smith, President of American Honky Tonk Bar Association. Baldy Coutet, Philip Kaiser, to the tune of My Hero by Foo Fighters. Here we go. There goes a hero. Watch it as he throws. There go a hero, Hammond turkey ham and turkey yeah I didn't I don't want to do the whole thing just because you know it's too showy but yeah okay I like it ham and turkey uh cornland a string of unpronounceable characters Malaika Chandler RhondaTheDork.com Milo Meadsong is fighting petty tyrants Big Easy Blasphemy hors d'oeuvres in the court before we report Chris Waltrip FRED R GROOTHUIS Sam Donow classic Classic libtard, and Mitchell. Thank you so much, top patrons. You are the best. We'll take our last break here, and then we'll hear more of P -Dexeth.

1:08:21 Matt: I've saved the most psychotic for last. So, I need to love this cover this

1:08:24 Lydia: Good.

1:08:24 Thomas: Mmm, joy. All right, oh wow, subtle. Now did this one one come out after or before the other one?

1:08:33 Matt: Is 2024 the last one was 2020 oh switch I'm sorry yes yeah

1:08:33 Lydia: Before uh switch switch mat yep

1:08:37 Thomas: I was going to say this looks older to me. Plus Sean Hannity was leaving less real. Yeah.

1:08:39 Matt: This is older you're right you're in yes

1:08:39 Lydia: This is this is 2020 yep yep and and the other one was him campaigning to be secretary of defense so yeah

1:08:42 Matt: That's right yeah with the wokeness

1:08:48 Thomas: What's that tattoo on his forearm? McDonald's? McDoccupied? What is that? Some Latin crap or something? I think it'd be really funny if it it was McDonald's.

1:08:57 Matt: So we've got yeah it's it's just to describe it yeah of course

1:09:00 Lydia: It's on his forearm uh Yahweh is it is it that one I'm I'm looking at his whole list of his whole lista tattoos

1:09:05 Thomas: That's not, it starts with an M. It says MDCC.

1:09:12 Matt: It's probably a year sounds like a roman numeral year he has so many tattoos uh so

1:09:14 Lydia: Uh let's see interesting yeah I'm not sure I don't see it there

1:09:20 Thomas: Classic trying to flex while holding a flag look. I love that. Yeah it's totally natural there.

1:09:26 Matt: We're going to go ahead and we've pete hegseth t -shirt and jeans waving a flag uh looking very resolved with his tattoos on display uh American Crusade this is the book we're gonna be looking at now and this

1:09:35 Lydia: Woke

1:09:37 Thomas: Our fight to stay free. Who the fuck is trying to make us not free? Who is it? I know I said before but like they're not, there's nobody, there'S nobody at our gates. There's nobody. We're not being invaded. There's nothing. Just fucking chill, man.

1:09:40 Lydia: College professors yeah from within

1:09:52 Matt: Is about the enemy within. The left is working tirelessly day and night to destroy America. He really talks like this.

1:09:58 Thomas: To let trans people exist.

1:10:00 Matt: Yeah, no. And he talks about how we are a nation that greets newcomers with a statue of liberty, not a statue of Lenin. That's a great line there, Pete. So basically, that's...

1:10:09 Thomas: Well, yeah, but that also doesn't work because now you don't even want the Statue of Liberty. They don't Even believe in that. Like they don't want any of that. All right.

1:10:16 Matt: That stupid poem, who needs it?

1:10:18 Thomas: You want me to hit play?

1:10:15 Lydia: What

1:10:19 Matt: Yeah. Let's look at this. So then we talk about his crusade. We're going to listen to a little bit of this and then we'll do the next one.

1:10:25 Clip: Again citizens of this country cannot naively naively hope that oceans will hold back the cultural invasion. The invasion is not just at our shores, it's in your community and schools. Arming yourself with facts is not against the law, and neither is speaking those facts to those in your committee. Protecting American culture is not racist.

1:10:44 Thomas: We never said it was that. Yeah,

1:10:48 Clip: Questioning the fruits of Islam is not Islamophobic. Demanding assimilation is not xenophobic.

1:10:48 Thomas: That might be, you know, it depends. Yeah

1:10:56 Clip: Condemning Islamism and its cruel worldview is not only right, it's essential for freedom survival.

1:11:02 Lydia: Wow it's not only right

1:11:04 Clip: Our crusade moment. Our present moment is much like the 11th century. We don't want to fight, but like our fellow Christians 1 ,000 years ago, we must. We need an American

1:11:12 Matt: If you want it.

1:11:14 Thomas: We don't want to fight. Sorry. That's the takeaway. Here's how it's similar to the 11th century. We don't want to fighting, but they're making us do a crusade. They made us go do a... We had to. Hands were tied. What is he talking about?

1:11:34 Clip: Crusade. We Christians, alongside our Jewish friends and their remarkable army in Israel, need to pick up the sword of unapologetic Americanism

1:11:41 Matt: Remarkable.

1:11:39 Thomas: That is really interesting right there to think about who the we is. It's rare that someone just says it.

1:11:50 Thomas: He's literally saying that the we We is the Christians. And then I guess, you know, if you're Jewish and you're with us, okay, you're like a second class of citizen. That's who it is. Like, there's no, no ifs, ands, or buts. He's not saying Americans. He's saying we Christians and some Jews. That's like, that's how he goes. That's, that'S, thatS

1:12:09 Clip: And defend ourselves. Like our fellow Christians 1 ,000 years ago, we must.

1:12:11 Matt: Also, I have to point out that the First Crusade, they completely got

1:12:12 Thomas: Crazy. Sure.

1:12:14 Matt: Their asses kicked by the Turks. They completely lost. So, I don't know if that's really the 11th century is the one you want to go for, but yeah,

1:12:19 Lydia: They they also massacred jews in the first crusade like I mean

1:12:22 Thomas: Well, man, it's because they made him do it. Like they didn't even want to be there. They're like, ah, he could be doing other stuff. But like, they made me do a crusade. Like my heart wasn't in it yeah

1:12:30 Lydia: Like, I find it, like, pretty disgusting that, you know, you're going to bring up the first crusade and say, you know, us Christians and our Jewish, you know, compatriots and stuff, we have to do this, much like in the 11th century. Oh, you mean when you killed a bunch of Jews? For no reason, just because you view them as enemies of Christianity. So, I don't know.

1:12:50 Matt: And Muslims. Let's be fair, they killed a lot of Muslims too.

1:12:53 Lydia: Of course, of course, I'm just trying to say, like it's, but

1:12:53 Thomas: I was gonna say to be fair they killed a bunch of jews as applies in any century of any

1:12:56 Matt: I know what you're saying right

1:12:58 Lydia: I know, but I'm just trying to say like this ally ship is is disgusting

1:12:59 Matt: And of course sure yeah

1:13:00 Thomas: I know yeah like bringing like specifically calling out jewish people into it are

1:13:07 Clip: Need an American crusade. We Christians, alongside our Jewish friends and their remarkable army in Israel, need to take up the responsibility to pick -up the sword of unaccommodated Americanism and

1:13:15 Thomas: Also our jewish friends and their remarkable army in israel so he's not even talking about just jewish people he's just talking about israeli people right or he's saying that that all of the Jews are in on it. Like they're all, all the Jews are part of Israel and they have an army in Israel. What a sloppy, racist way to write.

1:13:35 Clip: Defend ourself. We must push Islamism back, culturally, politically, geographically, and in the case of evils such as the Islamic State, militarily. The first step in this crusade is to have the courage to be intellectually honest about the enemy. Islamists haven't stopped, and they will not stop, unless we fight back. So -called tolerance smells like surrender to Islamists, because it is. Jesus did tell us to turn the other cheek, but I'm pretty sure he wasn't advising a secretary of defense at the time. People can slap me on Twitter because of my faith, and I will turn my head and smile. Mile. But bring a sword onto my property, into my community, and threaten my culture and country, and I'll turn on you with every weapon at my disposal.

1:14:07 Matt: Fuck him he's

1:14:16 Thomas: You won't. A sword?

1:14:23 Matt: Talking about going to their property but sure literally

1:14:25 Clip: Leftism has made us passive. We can't even imagine, as people did a thousand years ago, raising a sword and carrying a shield with a cross or an American flag on it.

1:14:34 Thomas: Why would you do that?

1:14:36 Clip: There are millions of Islamists who believe they are in a war with us and are willing to die for that belief.

1:14:35 Matt: Can't mm

1:14:36 Thomas: What the fuck are you talking about? You're right, Matt. This isn't, this should have been in

1:14:42 Clip: They teach their kids that suicide bombers are heroic. They are willing to kill for what they believe. Christian communities in the Middle East are dying by the sword.

1:14:42 Thomas: The hearings. Unlike you, who's writing a book

1:14:52 Clip: Christian nations in Europe are dying a death by a thousand cultural cuts.

1:14:52 Thomas: About killing for what you believe. Fucking

1:14:58 Clip: At what point do we face reality and deal with the fact that American and Christian culture is under attack and the outcome is far from certain?

1:14:58 Thomas: God, dude.

1:15:08 Clip: America is the greatest country.

1:15:08 Matt: Yeah this we can stop this for now uh

1:15:09 Thomas: I don't want these people in my country.

1:15:12 Matt: No this this book should have been played in its entirety at his confirmation they should have just made him sit through all of this and just justify it I'm sure he would have loved it but uh a little bit bit more let's listen to the the last chapter just so you can really just in case there's any doubt about who this guy is uh maybe not the last

1:15:14 Lydia: Pure evil yeah mm

1:15:27 Thomas: We need to just fucking, we need to make this not acceptable again. I don'T know how we do it, but polite society needs to come back. And what polite society should mean is not racist pieces of fucking garbage like this. This is disgusting. It's awful.

1:15:45 Thomas: It's truly, I don' t want to be near this fucking creep. What a hateful bigot you don't speak for me it's not an american crusade fuck you you're a racist piece of trash this can't we can't be like this we've got to stop this and the seagulls agree with me yeah that's

1:15:45 Matt: It's gonna get worse no loudly . Yeah let's listen to a bit of the last character uh

1:16:11 Thomas: Their version of snapping the seagles are snapping uh 13

1:16:15 Lydia: Chapter

1:16:13 Matt: That's right uh he's really gonna double down on the crusade thing yeah 13

1:16:18 Lydia: We're gonna take it from the top of chapter 13 yeah

1:16:20 Thomas: Here we go oh no

1:16:22 Clip: Are about to embark upon the Great Crusade. General Dwight D. Eisenhower, D -Day Eve Chapter

1:16:29 Matt: He meant world war ii not the middle east

1:16:32 Clip: 14 Make the Crusade Great Again Whether you like it or not, you are an infidel, an unbeliever, according to the false religion of leftism. You are marked for annihilation.

1:16:40 Thomas: I don't care I'm that according to your religion yeah

1:16:45 Clip: Just like Islamism, you can submit now or later. Or you can fight. Enjoy Western civilization?

1:16:43 Matt: Just

1:16:44 Lydia: We have to get tattoos now I I guess.

1:16:47 Thomas: But I would have to get it written an idiot so

1:16:54 Clip: Freedom? Equal justice under the law? Thank a crusader. Let's make the crusade great again.

1:16:54 Thomas: I don' t no literally not

1:17:03 Clip: From the beginning, 2 ,000 years ago, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ brought peace. His message was and is love.

1:17:10 Clip: His statement in Matthew 10 .34 reads, quote, Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to brings peace, but a sword, end quote.

1:17:10 Thomas: But he was an idiot so fuck him

1:17:21 Clip: Was not a call to arms, but reference to the discord Christians face when they express their devotion.

1:17:20 Matt: Contradicting the thing you just said. That was a metaphor,

1:17:27 Clip: Christianity spread through divine revelation, reasoned persuasion, human mercy, and evangelical travel, followed by centuries of deadly persecution of believers. It was not until the fourth century after Christ that

1:17:27 Matt: But however, the

1:17:38 Lydia: Then crusades.

1:17:35 Thomas: Travel are you I'm sorry that's his that's his version of why christianity spread we're just we're were just sightseeing we were just tourists we yeah we just we just talked oh

1:17:47 Lydia: Passport in hand.

1:17:50 Clip: Spread through divine revelation reason persuasion human mercy and evangelical travel followed by centuries of deadly persecution of believers it

1:17:58 Thomas: Travel and then they were persecuted and that's how it that's out traveled that's how

1:18:02 Clip: Was not until the fourth century after Christ that the leader of the most powerful empire in the world converted to the faith and Christianity picked up a sword after the Roman Emperor Constantine the Great converted to Christianity in the 4th century, that superpower effectively became the Holy Roman Empire. Christendom was officially born. The Romans had built military might to advance their power, and now Christians were safe behind the empire's shield. Christianity had a military to defend itself.

1:18:35 Matt: Good old days.

1:18:35 Clip: Centuries later, the religion of Islam was born. Muhammad, its founder, was the polar opposite of Jesus. Muhammad was a warrior through and through. Islam did not bring peace but instead gained power through coercion and war. Muhammad built and led a vicious army and slaughtered his enemies, promising paradise to his followers who died fighting for

1:18:54 Thomas: They didn't spread their religion nicely like we did are you kidding me

1:18:59 Matt: So he's making the point that Jesus, this is so weird. He starts out by saying Jesus is a man of peace, but also quotes him saying, of course, that I'd come not to bring peace, but a sword, which he did say. But that's a metaphor. But it's different when Muslims are doing it. And also, it took the Romans four centuries to get around to being violent, I guess. I don't think that's true.

1:19:16 Lydia: Man.

1:19:17 Matt: And then Muhammad just started doing it right away, so he's a lot worse. But also, we should be committing violence in Christ's name, and we should do a crusade also sooner.

1:19:20 Thomas: He didn't he didn'T do that yeah but yeah they're bad for doing that because we didn't but we should have done that because they're mad for doing bad yeah

1:19:31 Matt: Right. And when we did it, it was good. So the crusade, it was good, we should keep going a little bit more.

1:19:35 Clip: Islam.

1:19:36 Matt: But yeah, great

1:19:35 Lydia: What

1:19:33 Thomas: Fucking yeah god this guy okay

1:19:36 Clip: Islam never needed an army because Islam is an army. Since its founding, with almost no interruption, jihad fed Islam's expansion. Infidels like you and me had three options when encountering Muslims. To convert to Islam, pay a submissive tax, or fight to the death. Leftism also offers these three options. Since the 7th century and up to today, Islam has been on offense. By the 11th century, Christianity in the Mediterranean region, including the holy sites in Jerusalem, was so besieged by Islam that Christians had a stark choice, to wage defensive war or continue to allow Islam's expansion and face

1:19:43 Matt: Point, man.

1:20:02 Thomas: Where's my tax what

1:20:08 Lydia: A weird like random sentence about leftism.

1:20:10 Thomas: An idiot yeah jesus christ

1:20:21 Clip: Existential war at home in Europe. The leftists of today would have argued for diplomacy, sending Sir John Kerry to Jerusalem to broker peace by playing guitar with James Taylor.

1:20:23 Matt: He's not very familiar with European history, obviously.

1:20:32 Clip: We know how that would have turned out. The Pope, the Catholic Church, and European Christians chose to fight, and the Crusades were born. Pope Urban II urged the faithful to fight the Muslims, with his famous battle cry on their lips, The moment required followers of Christ to take up the sword in defense of their faith, their families, and their freedom. After centuries of fighting, the tide turned.

1:20:32 Matt: Yeah, that's exactly what would have happened. Callback

1:20:58 Thomas: Go defend it elsewhere in someone else's place

1:21:01 Clip: Christianity in Europe was saved. Jerusalem was liberated. And Christians did not seek further war with Muslims.

1:21:00 Matt: In palestine yeah

1:21:09 Clip: During his time on earth, Jesus was a spiritual warrior. But 1 ,000 years after his crucifixion, his followers were forced to take up the sword to protect their families and in defense of their right to worship him freely and peacefully.

1:21:08 Matt: Ever again there

1:21:23 Clip: Contrary to what many leftist scholars and Democrats preach, Jesus never taught against self -defense. I'm not romanticizing the Crusades.

1:21:19 Thomas: And no choice yeah he was actually into jiu -jitsu

1:21:32 Clip: They were bloody and full of corruption, injustice, an unspeakable tragedy, especially against our Jewish friends. I've read the full histories of the Crusades. They were complicated, flawed, and anything but clear -cut. But the alternative, surrender, would have been horrific for billions of people around the globe.

1:21:32 Thomas: Complicated

1:21:40 Matt: You go yes

1:21:44 Lydia: But but oh

1:21:51 Thomas: I think that's what you call a false dichotomy so you're saying I'm bad at history so please someone tell me if I just don't know something but I'm pretty sure that like the word crusade specifically evokes something like not staying at home and minding your own fucking business am I I wrong like it's actually yeah you don't I'm not a yeah it's my home crusade I just I've I'm a home crusade owner I just do I do yeah

1:22:06 Matt: You don't crusade in your backyard

1:22:16 Lydia: It's literally evangelical travel, right? With a side of murder. It's just, yeah.

1:22:20 Matt: Armed travel yes

1:22:19 Thomas: Yeah it says travel that's one of the best euphemisms I've ever heard in my life when he's like it spread through evangelical travel sightseeing

1:22:29 Lydia: Just a sprinkle of genocide.

1:22:31 Thomas: Yeah I mean this is like the the false binary of well either we had to go somewhere and kill people or we'd be dead we'd just be toast yeah

1:22:42 Lydia: Or eventually they would come to us and do it to us. Yeah

1:22:45 Thomas: Well that could justify pretty much anything couldn't it I

1:22:47 Clip: Again, do you enjoy Western civilization? Freedom? Equal justice? Thank a Crusader.

1:22:53 Thomas: Do love those things no

1:22:55 Clip: If not for the Crusaders, there would have been no protestant reformation or renaissance there would be no Europe and no America but even after being halted by the Crusades Muslims never stopped fighting and expanding both violently and non violently there

1:23:03 Lydia: What yep

1:23:05 Thomas: I yeah unlike all the christians

1:23:05 Matt: Also yeah I don't know how you get there this is such a weird view of european and christian history the idea that only the muslims I mean think about everything the spanish were doing like slaughtering Jews if they didn't convert, all the same stuff, right? And then of course, the New World, if we want to talk about colonialism and everything they're doing to convert and destroy. I mean, literally

1:23:25 Thomas: I feel

1:23:26 Lydia: The evils that have been wrought everywhere else

1:23:31 Thomas: Like the one religious group or like demographic that I don't feel like was colonialist at least over here there's not a there's like french canada there's not like muslimic canada all the empire building was done pretty much on behalf of christianity in that time I mean pretty much all of those countries that had colonies and colonizing they were pretty christian I mean maybe there's some exceptions that I'm not thinking of but yeah

1:23:58 Matt: Where you live right now, it's full of missions because that's how they got things going. They set up the mission first, build the town.

1:24:06 Thomas: Killed and albeit a lot of it unintentionally through disease but killed tons of natives and, and spread Christianity, you know, like, what are you talking about, dude? Like, well, Christianity minored its own business. I mean, its business is everywhere.

1:24:21 Matt: It was all defensive. Anything it was doing was in its self -defense.

1:24:22 Lydia: If you did a mission project in the fourth grade thank a crusader because that would have never happened also I don't think they do mission projects anymore more yeah only

1:24:34 Thomas: I hope not. Yeah, but

1:24:36 Matt: But this is all fascism because it requires us to be victims.

1:24:38 Thomas: Were there like Ottoman colonies or something like here, you know? I'm trying to think, like I genuinely, I'm so ignorant. I'm not, I like, I can't think of anything like that, but I, yeah, it's, well,

1:24:45 Lydia: Thing the only thing I can think of is is like the spread east and and but it was in relation to like business dealings I don't know that it was necessarily taking over

1:24:56 Thomas: I'm, yeah. It was a big empire, but I'm just, my point is not that any one side was all great. Any other side was all bad. It's just, his story is this victimhood narrative where Christianity was just like doing just my own business. Muslims were evil and always growing. And it's like, well I'm pretty sure where you live dude is like, that's all because of Christians going and empire building and colonizing.

1:25:20 Thomas: Right. I mean, I I can't think of like a, a Muslim presence around this area of the world that I, yeah, I mean, I, oh

1:25:27 Matt: Now, one of my favorite immigration facts actually is that I think it's from the Sudan or somewhere in Northern Africa. There was one year in the around like 1810 where there was one person who was recorded to have come over from this one country.

1:25:39 Thomas: You've, yeah. I remember.

1:25:40 Matt: And he was a Muslim missionary and he gave up. He just like tried to do some missionary work in the United States and left. And the one Sudanese immigrant. And meanwhile, yeah, that's what we know.

1:25:46 Lydia: I find that like really endearing actually

1:25:49 Thomas: That's so funny. Like in the record books, like that's just like, wow. Yeah.

1:25:54 Matt: It is. I'd watch that movie.

1:25:55 Lydia: Like he's like he tried and he was like never mind packs

1:25:56 Thomas: Credit for trying. Yeah. I hope that person was like rewarded handsomely at their back at their own country. Like I, I'm the one who tried.

1:26:01 Lydia: His suitcase he tried evangelical tourism

1:26:06 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. They make it so look so easy. Those Christians. Oh boy. All right. Well, was there any more to this? We need to hear Matt.

1:26:06 Lydia: Evangelical travel

1:26:07 Matt: I mean, you're getting the idea. I think we've heard more than we need to.

1:26:15 Thomas: I know it's all bangers. Yeah.

1:26:17 Matt: Yeah, it's all hate speech. But yeah, he goes on to talk about how we need an American crusade and how Trump is out there standing in the way of leftism with his Twitter sword. So it's pretty lame. It's just very pathetic, the whole thing. But yeah, no, so this is who Pace Hedseck is. We knew this when he was confirmed that he wanted an American crusade, and that seems to be what he's doing right now. And he talks very openly about how we should do anything that Israel wants us to do also. Like, that's a big part of the book.

1:26:17 Lydia: Gross yep

1:26:20 Thomas: Truly disgusting.

1:26:35 Lydia: Yeah

1:26:42 Thomas: Wow. Well he's got, he's God's wish there. Jeez. Our Jewish friends.

1:26:45 Matt: No, we got the right guy in the right spot. That's right. That's fine.

1:26:48 Lydia: Why do you need jags if you have netanyahu just whispering what what you you should be doing and what you should be bombing

1:26:53 Matt: Screening your missions. That's all right.

1:26:55 Thomas: Boy, truly awful, disgusting stuff, Matt. I think you're dead on with your, with your entire thesis statement here that this should I know it was futile, but boy, yeah, we could go back through the hearing. I don't remember this being a focus, and this is disgusting stuff.

1:27:10 Matt: I think some of the stuff about, because he has some awful things to say about his fellow Americans in this book, right?

1:27:15 Thomas: Women. Yeah, I remember the

1:27:16 Matt: And that too.

1:27:16 Thomas: Women. I feel like that's what they focused on a lot was the women in the military thing.

1:27:19 Matt: But but he basically he talks about how the military needs to be ready to be used against half the country because like leftists are going to try to take over yeah us yeah um and how like civil war is basically inevitable he says in this book that like I'm not saying we have to be violent but like we have be ready for it and let's buy some guns like this is not somebody who should be in charge of anything

1:27:26 Thomas: Half the country. Oh, wow. Yeah, I'm not saying we have to be violent, but remember when we carried around a sword and shield? That was awesome, huh? What a fucking racist piece of shit. God, he is so much worse than I even thought. I liked him better when I thought he was just a drunk loser.

1:27:41 Lydia: Yeah

1:27:41 Matt: Yeah imagine the good times yeah he's

1:27:52 Thomas: I didn't realize he was like the most fucking racist drunk loser, and that's saying something.

1:27:56 Matt: A drunk racist loser yeah all

1:27:58 Thomas: There's stiff competition for that one.

1:27:52 Lydia: Yeah yeah

1:28:01 Thomas: Wow. Okay. Well, this has been Vapid Response. Truly vapid in the most evil racist way, but thanks, Matt, for listening to that so we don't have to, although you did. I am going to sue you for making me listen to 15 minutes of Pete Hegseth, so you'll hear from my attorneys. Write yourself an angry letter and we'll go ahead and call it there. Thanks, Matt. Thanks listeners. And we'll see you all for Rapid Response Friday over on the Opening Arguments podcast feed and check out Gavel Gavel for some more fun, lighthearted, fun sandwich trial stuff. It's awesome.

1:28:01 Lydia: Dangerous yeah yeah

1:28:36 Thomas: It'S been a great time. And thanks. I was getting there. I probably would have forgotten, but you didn't give me a chance to forget.

1:28:36 Lydia: Also thanks Lydia you're welcome okay yeah because

1:28:44 Thomas: So that's on you.

1:28:44 Lydia: I didn't want to be be forgotten you're

1:28:46 Thomas: Yeah. Thanks Lydia is, I guess. You didn't listen to the stupid book, did you?

1:28:48 Lydia: Welcome I listened to as much of it as you did so so dumb all

1:28:56 Thomas: All right. Bye, everybody.

1:28:58 Matt: Right later crusaders

1:29:03 Thomas: Oh, God.

1:29:10 Clip: This has been Opening Arguments, produced by Thomas and Lydia Smith, with editing help from Peter Baird. The intro is by Thomas Smith. This outro is by Matt Cameron. Support the show at patreon.com/law. Contact us through Patreon or openarguments@gmail.com. Make sure to follow our blue sky at OpenArgs. But most of all, please share the show. Thanks for listening.

1:29:41 Thomas: The seaguls in their own track now made it stereo and get a good stereo picture yes or an image don't say that around them they hate that these are real seagals they're not this last time I mentioned that they beat the shit out of me don't even I

1:29:43 Lydia: There you go it's very 80s flock of seagulls not posers