So... I guess DoJ needs to arrest itself for releasing CSAM in the latest Epstein files?

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:09 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Opening Arguments. This is, it's Wednesday and it's Pedophile Response Wednesday. That's what we've always called it. I'm Thomas. Us. That over there is real life immigration attorney, Matt Cameron. How are you doing, Matt?

0:00:23 Matt: I've been better. Thomas, this is a lot. There's a whole lot of Jeffrey Epstein to talk about. Ooh, yeah. I mean, it's important.

0:00:31 Thomas: And a whole lot of other people. Yeah.

0:00:32 Matt: Yeah. A lot of other people, more importantly. That's right.

0:00:34 Thomas: And joining us is Lydia. How you doing?

0:00:37 Lydia: Am also doing okay. I don't know. And I think what's even more disgusting is this is half of what is supposed to be out. Yeah, I'm sure we'll get into it.

0:00:50 Thomas: Well, first question before we even get going. Yeah? What even is this in terms of amount? Do we know? Can we know thousands

0:00:56 Matt: Great question. Yeah no, I mean AOC has come out and said that there's quite a lot more that we need to be aware that this is just, again, another drop. I mean this is three million pages and thousands of videos. As we'll talk about shortly, some very ill -conceived stuff, but not all of it was supposed to have been out. And as we've been talking about over the last couple of episodes when we're talking about Epstein, the redaction almost seems random sometimes, and it certainly wasn't what it was opposed to be. So this is late, it's bad, it's not enough, but there is a lot of stuff. And lazy, yeah, of course. But we'll get into what's actually in here. But I'm happy to be talking to everybody about it. I think it's important. I think people need to know, uh, again, 3 million pages have not had time to read at least a million of them. Uh, so yeah,

0:01:08 Thomas: Of videos? Yeah.

0:01:25 Lydia: Lazy?

0:01:41 Thomas: Yeah. Well, did the full I did the whole 3 million actually come out? Or was that what he's saying there was and then I thought he said like half of that and

0:01:47 Lydia: That's right. Yes.

0:01:49 Matt: Then they pulled it. Yes. So if you actually, right.

0:01:51 Thomas: Then they pulled it yeah that well there's several things ah

0:01:53 Matt: Yeah, if you're actually downloaded the initial, uh release, which I did not, and I had other things to do this weekend initially, but, uh you ended up downloading child sex abuse material. The Department of Justice was distributing interage minors, uh pictures of minors.

0:02:03 Thomas: So I saw that and I um you know not this is like turning something awful into something awful minus 0.01 but I thought I saw that it was not confirmed if it was actually underage people just like appeared like they could have been but that's the last thing I saw the new york times said I don't know if they actually confirmed it

0:02:24 Matt: There's a was. But at the very least, there was a lot of stuff in there that shouldn't have been that we'll talk about.

0:02:26 Thomas: For sure yeah but that's so that's scary um I was just imagining how like I feel like the next amazing trump justice system move trump doj move would be if they start prosecuting people for having what they released in the fc files but like you're just like I'm expecting that'll be the next thing like for some reason who knows that's their way of getting that's the way of having everybody buddy have something to be arrested for potentially like just waiting in the wing you know

0:02:43 Matt: But they didn't. I thought of that. Yeah.

0:02:55 Lydia: And they can be like, see, we're prosecuting based off of this. We just pivoted. Yeah, honestly.

0:02:56 Thomas: We are very tough on child sex abuse here in the trump doj you know, we're proving it. Oh boy, so there's yeah infinite to talk about and uh I it's not fun so I don't know yeah it's just like we got to do it um I have truly saved myself for this because I keep seeing because here's the problem and this this was a problem even before AI. And I'm not even sure if AI made this particular thing worse, but like people are just posting fake stuff on this all the time. They're just posting fake things. There's also the problem of there is stuff that is actually in there, but is obviously just like some crank wrote an email saying, I heard, you know, George Bush senior raped somebody or whatever. And it's like, that's be all kinds of outlets are publishing that stuff as though like, here's just revealed in Epstein files. And It's like this is an absolute mess. And as much as I hate the media these days, like this is actually something that we do need actual media institutions for. Like you should, everybody out there should be really careful about sharing any Epstein file, anything without it being from a real source, you know, because it's, it's. And there's so much, the problem is there's still so much to like, because there's millions of files,

0:03:05 Lydia: I don't know. Yeah. Necessary. Yeah,

0:04:14 Thomas: It is very believable for it to be like, wow, just uncovered this because there there will be stuff. It's going to take forever for people to go through all of that. But I think you should rely on actual sources. And that's why I'm relying on Matt to have actually, so we're only going to be talking about stuff that's actually in the files and not a fake Photoshop from some Facebook page that's trying to get clicks.

0:04:29 Lydia: I think it's also important to think about like the consumption of this stuff and who is framing it as entertainment versus who is flaming it as news. Because people, I mean, we absolutely have a right to know this stuff, but think about how you're consuming it. Are you consuming it in a way where it's salacious and, you know, like your clicks are giving somebody money or something like that? Like, just be mindful of that because I think it's really, really easy to start dehumanizing everybody who's been involved in decades of abuse for the random person's entertainment. So those

0:04:37 Matt: Very important. Thank

0:05:14 Lydia: Are some things that have been sitting with me.

0:05:14 Matt: You. That's really important. I mean, this is not salacious. This is not fun. I'm going to really be centering the people most affected today when we start out with this, because I want to really show that there is some stuff in here. There's a famous quote from Anthony Bourdain about about. Henry Kissinger, do you know that one? He said that if you've ever been to Cambodia, he said that for the rest of your life, you're just going to want to strangle Henry Kissanger to death with your bare hands. And that's how I feel after reviewing some of the things I'm going to show you today about some of these men. To be honest, I'm not a violent person. This is not a death threat. I'm just saying, yes,

0:05:47 Thomas: And still about Henry Kissinger too, just for, yeah, man.

0:05:49 Lydia: Coincidentally.

0:05:50 Matt: In the grave, yeah, if I had a chance. But yeah, Yeah, I know. I don't even have words for how disgusting it is to actually see. It's one thing to have Virginia Drewfrey write a book and then take her own life, and that's horrific. But some of the things we're seeing here were never meant to be seen by anybody. And I'm going to show you some things. Again, we don't know who wrote the things I'm gonna show you, but I think people need to see it. And it hasn't been reported enough. Things are actually written at the time by some of these people. So yeah, no, there's a lot here. It'S heavy stuff. Obviously, a huge trigger warning for pretty much everything we're going to talk about, more than usual on this stuff. So if you have been anywhere near this stuff yourself, you might want to skip this one. But it does need to be understood because there are so many powerful people caught up in this at this point, so many more even than what we expected, I think.

0:06:39 Thomas: And this is all knowing that they've been trying to scrub Trump from it as much as possible. And This Is Still What We Got, right? I mean, they almost successfully convinced a lot of people that the Trump -Epstein connection was kind of overblown. Like it was, oh, they were kind of friendly, but you know, it's just a, you know it's an overblow thing. Thing. And then and like I was almost kind of convinced of that a few years ago when it was like it just there. We didn't have access to a lot of stuff. And it's like, yeah, OK, I'm sure there's bad stuff going on, but maybe there won't be anything like crazy, you know, like maybe it won't super intensely crazy. But then once Trump, I don't know, a year ago, whenever it started, once he started really resisting this in a serious way, I was like, OK. Never mind. There's definitely there would be no reason for him to be like that. And he was resisting it in a way that was not good politically. It wasn't like he was, you know, so it was very much in his self -interest if he were truly innocent to just get these out there

0:07:36 Thomas: And he did everything. But, and so at that moment, you Know, a couple, a year ago or whenever this first started, I can't even remember. It feels like it's been since he got elected virtually, but the second time, but it's felt like there's something there and correct me if I'm wrong, Matt, it seems like there's a lot of Trump up in this one yeah

0:07:52 Matt: Is. But again, it's kind of in the vein of what we were talking about last time that it's unsubstantiated, it's hard to know because all these are tips. There is one particularly shocking thing that that we will get to. And there are a lot of shocking things we're going to get to, and yeah, yeah.

0:07:59 Thomas: And again all knowing they're trying to scrub so this is what we got you know we still can't be sure like this iswhat we got you know and they're not we know they're there we know their crooked on this like we know there are not their hands aren't clean on this I don't want to be a alex jones of the left but like I donno like what how do we know for sure that that we're getting the majority of the information yeah

0:08:09 Matt: And yeah, that's

0:08:23 Lydia: Well, and I think it's interesting, like the way that I've seen like Blanche characterize this too is like you're getting way more than anything that would have ever come out in a court case. Well that's not the standard that we're talking about here. There's a law where it's beyond what we would would get in a court case. So I don't care. Why are you bringing that up?

0:08:37 Matt: Not what Congress said. Yeah. Great.

0:08:44 Lydia: That's deflection.

0:08:44 Thomas: It has no relevance Yeah. What an asshole.

0:08:47 Matt: Yeah, yeah, we got a lot to get through. There's a lot here.

0:08:50 Thomas: And we're not going to have time, but what we first have to do is thank the people who make this show possible, who make, by the way, I, you know, I don't want to be like, Hey, you're sponsoring, you know, pedophile response, but for real, your support allows us, uh, and particularly Matt, the time to be able to go through this stuff and dig through for the good information, like trustworthy information on this. Because it's not easy. You can't just share what you're seeing online, like without uncritically, you just you can't do it. So I want to thank these folks, our top patrons on patreon.com/law. We're going to go in thirds, even though I have no idea how long this is going to be. We'll see. But really, truly, thank you. It's more important than ever to be supporting this, particularly this this this very tough work that, you know, Matt is doing and Lydia is doing. I'm not doing anything, but Matt and Lydia are doing to to dig through this. So thank you seriously from the bottom of our hearts for making this possible. I want to thank My House is a Mess, but I read a lot of books. Oh, yeah. And you also get a cool shout out of whatever your choice is. So that's also fun. Dominic Gillispie, Matthew Cutler, autistic streamer (twitch.tv/MTC_streams). Vetinari for America 2028, one man, one vote. UnreMerkable, your mom fell in a hole. Your mom fell into a hole? Oh, God, that was so good. The guy, the guy

0:10:09 Thomas: Was like, and I was pushed into a whole.

0:10:08 Lydia: From the Antifa roundtable.

0:10:11 Matt: Cheers me up every time.

0:10:12 Thomas: God, whatever vapid response that was, if this is too much of a downer, and it will be, go watch that afterward.

0:10:18 Lydia: It's pretty funny.

0:10:18 Thomas: Aminah, Donna Treadaway, Mother of Harridans, protect trans kids and document everything with ice, will want exhibits for the show trials.

0:10:18 Matt: Antifa roundtable.

0:10:25 Thomas: Yes.

0:10:25 Matt: Hell yeah.

0:10:26 Thomas: Show trial? Isn't that a, that's like a derogatory, am I wrong?

0:10:31 Matt: Yeah...

0:10:31 Thomas: Isn'T that a derigatory term for a trial? That's like saying for the kangaroo court, isn'T it? Like, it's a real trial. I agree with everything else, except it's a real trap.

0:10:31 Matt: I'll take real trials. Right, yeah, right.

0:10:38 Lydia: Give us real trials.

0:10:39 Thomas: Mike,

0:10:40 Matt: Put them on TV though. It's fine.

0:10:40 Thomas: Unless I'm wrong, maybe I'm wrong. Mike Lapinsky, ah, Satan sees Natasha. Good one. Like it. Sionitus, normalized bidirectional spooning. Fourth Circuit attorney reluctantly changing her font. Apprentice of Adventure, Charlie Kelly, attorney at Bird Law.

0:10:57 Lydia: I thought you were going to thank Charlie Kirk for a second. I was like, what?

0:11:00 Matt: From the grave.

0:11:01 Lydia: What?

0:10:59 Thomas: It was because I had seen bird, like my eyes flashed. So I was like Charlie Curd, but so it wasn't Charlie Kirk, but I, maybe there was some part of my brain that was doing that I don't know Charlie Kelly, attorney of Bird Law, Probably a real person and Nick Fish okay very important uh thank you so much to our patrons and uh we'll take a quick break and then we'll dig in to our amuse-douche fake out amuse-douche first but it is related right okay well we'll tak e a break and t hen we'll amuse ducially we'll douche amusedly okay right matt uh here's are famously coined by you, amuse -douche, fantastic terminology. What is it this time?

0:11:25 Matt: It is unfortunately. Um, so our, Today's douche de jour is fan favorite Todd Blanche. Uh, we never, I have to say it every time we bring up Todd Blanch's name, of course, he's now the deputy Attorney General, second in command at the Department of Justice. And we, of course, only knew him and fans knew him as Trump's defense attorney in the People v. Trump case, which we spent a very long time with Liz Skeen breaking down, never knowing that this man would have so much power.

0:11:44 Thomas: Douche to shore. Yeah. He's one of the few people I'm confused about still. I don't know why he did this. Like the other guy who's now a judge seems like an evil Nosferatu person.

0:12:08 Matt: Oh, by the way, yeah. Sure.

0:12:10 Thomas: Bove seems like, oh, he's just a piece of shit. You know, Stephen Miller's a piece de shit. Lots of people, other people like the guy who made Melania's movie apparently were in the Epstein file. So it's like, I get that, you know, like there's all kinds of reasons people, I don't understand Todd Blanche. He seems like a normal enough guy. Like, are we going to find out there's something weird with him? Or is this all opportunism? Could, is, do people care that much about money? I don' t, like it's the things he's having to do, debase himself, defending pedophiles. It's like what are you doing? But okay, sorry, go ahead.

0:12:34 Matt: Well and I do want to remind everybody of the very long video we did with Liz of Todd Blanche interviewing and Glenn Maxwell going down and pretending that there was some new information that he could get out of her and well after her conviction. He is very much a company man. He's doing everything he's supposed to do as Trump's top dog here. So let's just hear a bit of Todd Blanche talking about why it's maybe not so bad to hang out with Jeffrey Epstein.

0:13:05 Thomas: God, here we go.

0:13:06 Clip: Of the people we saw on camera at the rallies, is there any chance that any of these individuals who partied with Epstein, and engaged in, you know, relations with minors, will be prosecuted?

0:13:19 Thomas: Wow.

0:13:19 Clip: Any chance? I'll never say no. And we will always investigate any evidence of misconduct. But as you know, it is not a crime to party with Mr. Epstein. And so as horrible as it is, it's not a crime to e -mail with Mr Mr. Epstein. And some of these men may have done horrible things. And if we have evidence that

0:13:31 Thomas: Is partying a crime? Indeed, the Beastie Boys fought for our right to party.

0:13:42 Clip: Allows us to prosecute them, you better believe we will. But it's also the kind of thing that the American people need to understand, that it isn't a crime to party with Mr. Epstein, it isn' a crime. It didn't look like that's all that was going on in some of those photos. I mean, if the photos could speak, some of them look pretty bad. That's right. And unfortunately, photos can't speak. And so we need witnesses and we need evidence. Are there videotapes that that you all have or some of the people we saw on camera.

0:13:53 Matt: Stop saying that.

0:14:05 Thomas: Well, the clip ends there. I guess we won't find out the answer to that question.

0:14:08 Lydia: Now the press press release from the DOJ. He's not going to say it on camera. It says, quote, this systematic review revealed no incriminating, quote client list. There was also no credible evidence found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals as part of his actions.

0:14:08 Matt: That's all. No.

0:14:23 Lydia: We did not uncover evidence that could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties. So that sounds like a no to me oh

0:14:30 Thomas: Well, that's a different... So Matt, I think, covered a long time ago, who knows when this was, that it's kind of a red herring to look for the quote -unquote Epstein list, right? Like that was kind of a... So does it feel like maybe an intentional thing on... I almost said Beauvais. What's his name? Blanche's part. Intentional thing on Blanche's part to kind of redirect to that, because that, that is like the one part of this that is kind of, I won't say it's a myth, but it's like not really substantiated that, you know, that so, so, oh, no list everybody. Yeah. Okay. No list, but holy shit. Look at everything else. Like, wow.

0:14:43 Lydia: Yeah blanche right

0:14:50 Matt: Blanche. Yep. Right. Yeah, I can give you a list after looking through just what I've looked through. It's

0:15:10 Thomas: You just need to make a list by typing in the names of all the people that there's bad stuff on. Then there's the list.

0:15:15 Lydia: And and and centering again the victims here the one of the lawyers for for a number of victims said the recent documents only confirm what the victims have been saying all along the absence of a formal client list is not the same thing as proof that no no third parties participated.

0:15:31 Matt: Yep, yep. And

0:15:32 Thomas: Well, there you go. I don't read this stuff ahead of time. So I just didn't know they said that.

0:15:36 Lydia: No, it's okay.

0:15:39 Thomas: I handle AV here. I really do nothing. But no, that's a good point. That was the point I was making. Like it just, yeah, I think that's an intentional misdirect there.

0:15:47 Matt: And yeah, it is. And just, I mean, yes, it's not a crime to quote unquote party with Mr. Epstein, but you know what kind of parties he's having. And also, somebody suggested that should be the new slogan of the Republican Party for 2029. It's not crime to party with mr. Epstine, because so many of them have.

0:16:02 Thomas: Oh my God. Might as well be. Yeah, and like, honestly, Matt, you're the lawyer. Like, it could be. I mean, depending on what was going on there, like, it doesn't take much, especially when you're dealing with like minors. Like again, Again, I'm not an expert on the fucking law. You could tell me, but it doesn't take a whole lot for something to be going on at a party with Mr. Epstein that would make everybody there possibly culpable, right? I mean, if anyone knows about like an exploitation of a minor of any kind, right, like at a party, that's got to be something, right.

0:16:37 Matt: There's a lot of people who should be investigated, I think. We're not even going to get to so many of them, but let's talk about the DOJ response, because, you know, the Epstein Files Transparency Act, I'm going to give everybody a quick review of this. And before we dive into everything else, required by December 19th that everything be, excuse me, required by January 19th, that everything will be released. And here we are.

0:16:57 Matt: It is first week of February. Yep. So the first slide is going to be the excerpt from the Epsteins Files Transparecy Act.

0:16:57 Thomas: Is this our first slide? Okay. Let me know when. Yeah. All right. We've got a slideshow, everybody. Buddy.

0:17:04 Matt: And I just want to talk about what we actually got and what is probably still outstanding. And also as we're going through how these redactions are working. So just a reminder here in this act of Congress that no record shall be withheld, delayed, or redacted on the basis of embarrassment, reputational harm, or political sensitivity, including to any government official, public figure, or foreign dignitary. Now, of course, the AG can withhold or redict anything involving victims, and we want that, and of course that didn't happen to the degree it should have. Anything involving depictions of child sex abuse material, depictions about child sex use, or anything that would jeopardize an act of investigation. Now there was talk of Trump trying to make something an active investigation against the Clintons or or whatever, so we could keep a lot of it. That hasn't happened yet. A lot of this stuff has come out. But I just wanted people to keep this in mind that they can't just withhold things because they want to. But the problem is that the US attorney for the Southern District of New York is Jay Clayton, who was previously under Trump, the SEC chair, and who worked very closely with Leon Black, who I want to talk about for a little while when we get to it. And the fact is that Jay Clayton as the head of SDNY is in charge of most of the Epstein evidence because most of this happened in New York, and most of these things were collected in New York. And there are serious questions at this point because 40 names were accidentally or whatever disclosed. I mean, 40 names came out that shouldn't have come out just from this release alone.

0:18:22 Matt: Dozens of images.

0:18:22 Thomas: As in they were in something that wasn't redacted properly.

0:18:25 Matt: Yeah, and remember last time, and this time you're gonna see it as well, they redacted the names of the US attorneys who were involved in the plea deal, right?

0:18:32 Thomas: Yeah.

0:18:32 Matt: I mean that's... talk about embarrassing information.

0:18:33 Thomas: They were dead. Look, I, again, did see, uh and I'm pretty sure this is a real thing, a pretty gross email and the name of that emailer was redacted and it's not a victim. And right away, already that's violating this law. I'm looking here, this is, you know, I'm not Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, but I feel like reading these words is pretty clear. So the only redactions we should be seeing are victims, right? That's the only thing by the law, right. Doesn't matter if they're, oh, it would be embarrassing. Oh, it doesn't matter.

0:19:06 Thomas: This is that. So anything that's redacted, that's not a victim is essentially, I wouldn't call it a crime or would you? Like it's against the law. It's against this law, right?

0:19:03 Matt: And it be enforced. You may have to actually sue to enforce it. There might have to be court action to get more of this out. And even just in the very small sampling we're going to see today, there's all kinds of redactions that don't make a lot of sense, except they're just trying to protect people. And it's disgusting. But I do want to actually, Just to call back to what Todd Blanch said, I'm not going to completely agree with him, but I do want to say that just because your name is in the Epstein files, just to remind everybody, doesn't mean that you were an associate or that you knew what was going on or anything else. There are a lot of people, even there are press clippings in here for people that have absolutely nothing to do with anything. There are people that are arranging, scheduling with him for different things or different people are working with other people. Thomas Smith is in The Epstein Files. I just wanted to point that out. I just had some fun searching for all of our names.

0:19:55 Thomas: Some other Thomas Smith. Oh okay.

0:19:57 Matt: It is actually different, Thomas Smith. Myth. I'm not breaking that on this show.

0:19:59 Thomas: Well it's, it could have almost not been because you know, Michael Marshall, I thought he was doing that thing where he was saying that someone named Michael Marshall was in, but no, he was actually in there because he contributed to the article against Lawrence Krauss.

0:20:00 Lydia: Actually friend of the show. Yeah and

0:20:14 Thomas: Cause he witnessed Lawrence Kraus do something weird. So yeah.

0:20:14 Lydia: Lawrence Krauss was drafting his response with Epstein to that article so

0:20:21 Thomas: So Epstein helped Lawrence Krause draft a response to being outed for being gross, uh, by our friend Michael Marshall. So it's not impossible that I could have been in there, honestly, like, cause I did, you know, an episode on that around the time, but I don't think he was, I don' t think I was on his radar. Wait, did I have him on the show though, hun?

0:20:38 Lydia: You did mm -hmm yeah

0:20:39 Thomas: Oh shit. I had Lawrence Krauss on the show.

0:20:40 Lydia: You had him on the show and it was like I was so proud and then all this stuff happened and I was like oh well bummer

0:20:45 Matt: Good.

0:20:44 Thomas: Man. Jeez. That's been a while. So I could have been Matt. Yeah. Good point. I mean, being quote unquote in the files could mean that Epstein was talking about someone he hated, you know, like it could be, you know. Your name could be in there for any number of reasons. I also know that with scientists, now this doesn't apply to Lawrence Kraus, but I know he did try try to cozy up to lots of scientists who, you different levels of maybe when someone might have known that Epstein was a creep, but like, certainly, it's going to be a I think it's really case by the case. I think if you see someone's name was in there, I really think that, you know, I think especially when you're dealing with something this gross, I Think you probably owe it to like the just general due process principle of, you Know, fairness of life to be to like check, you you know, like to not

0:20:48 Matt: Good. Right.

0:21:31 Thomas: Be like instantly assigning someone to be like literally the worst thing, like a child predator, essentially, because they're mentioned in the files. I think it's worth verifying and then calling them a child. Right.

0:21:43 Lydia: -hmm I I will say though because like we we've gotten so many you know comments from people who have been outed through this release that are like I regret my relationship I disavow blah blah blah they didn't say that any time before they had plenty of opportunity to say that if you truly meant that why wouldn't you have you know gone out in front um knowing that even even after the act was passed it could have been as late as that knowing that all of this stuff is going to come out why wouldn'T you you only do it now when your name shows up in a search engine and I find that a little um concerning and uh disingenuous in terms of their apologies on that end

0:22:18 Matt: For sure. And then there's people like Howard Lutnick who really tried to say, well, I thought he was weird. I saw a massage table with something going on. And then of course it comes out now in this dump that 2018, he's in touch with him, you know, scheduling lunch or whatever, you know? And everybody knew. That's sort of the Treasury Secretary, Howard Letnick, is one of the people.

0:22:38 Thomas: Don't know what, what's this. So he tried to say prior to this, that he was like, Oh, I was blowing this whistle on this. And it turns out he was full of shit oh

0:22:47 Matt: Yep, still in touch with him. And there's a number of people like that. But you do have to kind of put in layers of culpability, right? Because there are definitely people, he had a private jet and he would just give people rides, right? And like, if you're going to get a free ride in a private Jet home, sure, why not? You don't know who this guy is. But there are Definitely people that have tried to say they don't Know him that well, that knew him pretty well, were in touch all the time. And we talked talked about some of those. We'll talk about some more of them. But before we talk about any of these men, I want to just show you something that has broken my heart, and I want to take you through a little bit. Well, actually, before we do that, let's just look at the next slide very quickly. We've got it up here.

0:23:21 Matt: Just for the legal point here about DOJ's attempts to comply with the Epstein Act. This is in relation to a civil suit. This letter was on the 2nd of February, was put into the court in the civil suit, and their or detailing, this is from Jay Clayton from STNY, detailing their efforts to work all through the weekend. This is when it became known that there was a lot of stuff in there that shouldn't have been in there. So they're saying they took down nearly all of those materials specifically identified by victims or counsel. They actually still have a tip line, basically, if you find something you don't think is supposed to be in there, other documents identified independently. So I just wanted to point out the problem with trying to tell you about what has just come out is that we don't have a complete picture. When we were doing these before, people would copy copy in and make a very easily searchable database on Pinpoint and

0:23:20 Thomas: This one yeah

0:24:05 Matt: Other sites. And that has not really happened yet. So we've had to use the actual Department of Justice, what they call now the Epstein Library, the worst library that you're ever going to visit. And so that is a lot harder to do because it's a government website. It's not as agile as something like Pinpoint, where you can search for a person, you know, between date ranges and everything else. It's a big mess to try to search there. We tried.

0:24:20 Thomas: I have to imagine people are hesitant to make that when there might be actual child sex abuse material so maybe that's going to take a minute yeah for people to

0:24:31 Matt: It's been a real problem. Yeah. There's a lot of interesting Reddit threads about this, about the efforts. You know, people have had to, like, they put up BitTorrents, right? And then they had to take it all down because they realized, you know, who knows what I might be streaming right now. Yeah, it's dangerous. So I'm, you Know, this is all kind of really, we're probably gonna return to some of this because there's so much in here. But definitely some things that I've found, some of us has known and has been talked about, some of I haven't seen anywhere else. But the next thing I want to show you is something that I haven'T really seen anywhere elS. And I think it is, it's a journal. I don't think we know who took this journal. I don't think we want to know, we don't need to know. So this is a screenshot and these are clippings. And this girl, I have no doubt that she was a girl, she's doing this arch for herself. She's also keeping a journal and she's keeping a journaling code. There's a code you can decode pretty quickly, someone has decoded it. And I'm not going to go too much through in detail here, but you can see on the the screen here, this sort of collection of clips. Let's see if you want to read what it says. It's like a ransom

0:24:40 Lydia: Ladies

0:25:03 Thomas: Cracker

0:25:31 Lydia: Man,

0:25:31 Matt: Note.

0:25:33 Lydia: Terrible guy with a gift for giving girls in a world of wealth and privilege. This is about power and control the special roles to fulfill. Your voice has no power. And no matter where you are, nothing gives you the power to be heard. No voice, tragic childhood tracker oh

0:25:53 Matt: This is, yeah, this is the beginning of, you know, and there's quite a lot here. We can link to it separately, and you should actually maybe open it just for a minute and flip through. But the things in here, there's some really powerful stuff in this. I mean, you can see the way she crosses out some words and writes on other things. And I don't think we want to.

0:26:13 Thomas: I don't understand this so what so this so someone who's do we know who this is or what right but are so we're assuming it's a victim victim then right so assuming it's a victim how so how would we think this is in evidence is it like he had it or is it like it was collected as

0:26:24 Matt: And it's definitely evidence. Yeah,

0:26:33 Lydia: Submitted as part of

0:26:33 Matt: It was submitted, I think, as part of the witness investigations.

0:26:34 Thomas: Part of a case oh

0:26:37 Matt: Yeah. And you can look at the next page, there's an allegation. I mean, I don t consider this main allegation, but Leon Black. So you can see the code here that she's using.

0:26:37 Thomas: Okay is that in the oh

0:26:48 Matt: And then someone has transcribed the code so you can what it says.

0:26:48 Thomas: I see I

0:26:51 Lydia: On the right so on the right is what it means walk down Madison Avenue to 71st Street my

0:26:54 Matt: Yeah. And again, trigger warning.

0:26:58 Thomas: Can zoom into that part fuck

0:27:00 Lydia: Mother has lost her fucking mind even though Ghislaine said it was best to take me home because Mr. Black is so important for some reason over my health there is going to be hell to pay I ruined their trip and I am dramatic when that fuck But when that fat fuck bit me, he threw me on the floor and blood all over Jeffrey's carpet. And I am the issue. Who the fuck bites someone? Sick. No one is that important. And Leon can go fuck himself. I hate New York.

0:27:27 Thomas: Is happening here walk

0:27:28 Matt: This is Leon Black. So this is a very, very important person in the story we haven't talked about yet. Leon Black is one of the people who made Jeffrey Epstein who he was. And there are multiple very serious allegations. And I don't consider this an allegation. This istrue. Obviously, she wrote it down in her journal as it was happening. No, she didn't think anybody was going to read this. And you can see on the left.

0:27:30 Thomas: Down the mess yeah do we have a date on this like when this okay just wondering so

0:27:48 Matt: I don t think we have. Yeah . But on the left there, you can see there's the code, and then further down, there's another scrapbook collection of words.

0:28:00 Matt: And she's trying to express herself through collage, basically. It's more than she can write out. So I wanted to talk about... Yeah, good.

0:28:08 Lydia: Now, yeah, Leon Black, head of the Museum of Modern Art, Metropolitan Art. Shoot now I don't remember uh

0:28:16 Matt: He's on the board at least, yeah. But

0:28:18 Lydia: You know he yeah so he was um uh he yeah museum of modern art and he was the chairman of the board um in 2018 so he Was elected chairman of board in 2018 he then resigned in 2021 when it was discovered how much money he had given epstein that he insists was just from, you know, financial advice and philanthropy and ties related to that. And then there was also sexual misconduct allegations separately from Epstein to individuals that had that were pursuing like lawsuits against him. And I think one of the things that we found out from from this dump is that it wasn't, you know, clearly was not just business dealings. Like Leon Black paid $600,000, I think, to one of the victims that

0:28:40 Matt: So much money. Yep. More. And also

0:29:18 Lydia: We know about, I thought. But yeah, maybe it was more.

0:29:18 Matt: Paid some of the assistance of Jeffrey Epstein, So millions of dollars, basically paying for these different services, no doubt. I've just stuck in another slide on the next one about Leon Black as well. We can talk about it, but yeah.

0:29:31 Thomas: Do we have any idea what my mother has lost her fucking mind means does that mean she was knowledgeable of it or my mother's lost her f*****g mind even though Ghislaine said it was best to take me home because Mr. Black is so important for some reason over my health Ghislraine says best to tak me home so instead of to the hospital maybe or something or to the or there's going to be hell to pay I ruined their trip and I remember me on the floor but wow I mean that's wow I don't know what their mom had to do with it but that it's potentially very dark yeah

0:29:35 Matt: No, there's not a lot of context, but I think they didn't cheat.

0:30:05 Matt: There's some really dark edges to a lot of this, even darker than I would have thought to physical abuse. The next one, and again, everyone should believe this because because this is from, I

0:30:09 Thomas: I I hate to ask this question but who's the fat fucking question is that uh leon black for sure okay I was just not sure because of the content I don' t know if it could have been somebody else and or something but okay

0:30:19 Lydia: Leon Black.

0:30:18 Matt: Believe that's Leon Black. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. The context, she's clearly got an issue with him for good reason.

0:30:27 Thomas: I'll go to the next

0:30:28 Matt: And the next one is a redacted investigation. This is from FBI.

0:30:35 Matt: And I just wanted just to really cement this, right? That Leon Black was soliciting, we don't have to read the whole thing, but essentially this is a summary of how Leon Black is soliciting sexual contact during massages. He can't say he didn't know what going on during these massages or what these girls were being used for by Epstein. Again, in case you're not the kind of person who believes a girl's journal that she wrote at the time, here it is that Black is just expecting sex during these messages.

0:30:28 Thomas: One yeah well she was probably just trying to get notoriety in her personal private journal matt matt

0:31:04 Lydia: Right. What we have here. Blank recalled two instances in which Epstein directed her to provide massages to other men, both of which occurred in or around 2011 or 2012. First, Epstein instructed Blank to massage Leon Black at Epstein's New York residence. Blank attempted to give Black an ordinary massage, but Black began initiating sexual contact, at which point Blank ran out of the room. Blank complained to Epstein, who laughed it off as a funny incident. Blank also recalled a woman named Blank being directed to massage [redacted]. And afterwards, Blank told Blank that she had provided Blank with oral sex during the massage. Second, Epstein instructed Blank to provide a massage to Jes Staley in Epstein's New York residence. I'm not sure. Blank attempted to give him an ordinary massage, but he forced Blank to touch his genitals and then raped Blank.

0:31:55 Thomas: That wow so

0:31:56 Matt: Jes Staley is an executive at Barclays, another banker. There's a lot of finance guys in this. Well, Black had to resign from Apollo Capital, which he managed for many, many, many years. I know, poor guy. And then he picked Jay Clayton as his replacement for Apollo Capital. Jay Clayton, now the SDNY District Attorney and Prosecutor.

0:32:00 Thomas: Which prison no holy

0:32:13 Lydia: Of course.

0:32:16 Thomas: Shit it.

0:32:17 Matt: Right. Yeah, no, these people are all connected. Yeah. The stringboard is very small.

0:32:19 Lydia: They're all connected. What disgusting web.

0:32:22 Matt: Yep. Yep, yep.

0:32:22 Thomas: They're, they're releasing the them files. This is the them files. They're in this. What? How can we possibly trust that we have everything here?

0:32:32 Matt: Yeah. No, this is just a little picture, just a little taste. There's so much in here.

0:32:36 Thomas: There's literally a rape allegation.

0:32:38 Matt: Yeah, straight up. And it's very believable, as is all of this. I mean, we also have, I want to point out, maybe we'll get to it, but we have the indictment finally, the 2007 indictment that would have been in another universe, the federal indictment, that Jeffrey Epstein was facing, if not for the terrible plea deal, got a lot more, as well as the investigation behind the indictement more that has come out as well. So I mean this is building and building. But let's take a quick look. We'll move on. We But oh, and Leon Black, too, I just want to mention $158 million between 2012 and 2017 that Jeffrey Epstein was managing, allegedly. He claims that Epstein helped him avoid about a billion dollars in taxes. And he did the thing that people love to do, where he paid for in a law firm to investigate his own relationship with Epstein. And it turns out it wasn't that bad. That was what the law firm concluded.

0:33:26 Lydia: Convenient.

0:33:26 Matt: Yeah, but that is not what comes out in these files. That is not at all. If you can open an outside link here, I just want to give you an idea of just gifts to one person associated with Epstein.

0:33:24 Thomas: What, can't be right. I think you've sent me to a porn site because it's the DOJ and it's making me say I'm 18 years or older. Boy, that's gotta be a fucking, that's got to be a first.

0:33:42 Matt: Time you go through the Epstein library. Yeah. Yeah,

0:33:47 Thomas: Imagine trying to explain that to somebody from 20 years ago. I don't know. Like, yeah, to get into this site, the government site, you got to say, you know, you do Pornhub and you just like say,

0:33:59 Matt: And that's just 2015. That's just to one of Jeffrey Epstein's associates. And there is a lot to unravel here about Russia and about Eastern Europe and about women flowing through. There's not much out there about her right now, but I do think I've seen that name in associated with Epstein before, but I know that for sure she was working with him. And there's stuff that still needs to be developed here about Russia because it does seem like there's a good chance that he was laundering money through Russia and receiving Russian women and that this web goes pretty deep. It's hard to talk about this without getting conspiratorial and without sounding. And we'll get to a document that, yes, it is a conspiracy.

0:34:09 Thomas: Anastasia Surchenko. GIFs. Well, yeah, I think because we have a conspiracy here, Matt. I think that's why. So

0:34:39 Matt: And yeah, the guilty parties have tried to say this is very limited to Epstein and just a few of his people, but it does seem to be going quite a lot deeper and further.

0:34:39 Thomas: When there's a conspiracy. Were so engrossed in this, I forgot to insert breaks. So totally organically, I want to put this. This has happened at the time. I want thank our second group of Hall of Famers who are once again supporting the show and giving us the ability to get you this very important information. Thank you to UnfrozenCavemanLawyer, A Negative Phenomenon, the palindrome of Bolton would be not lob. Okay. You got, no

0:35:12 Lydia: Oh, I was expecting the entire thing to be a palindrome and not even, yeah, okay.

0:35:15 Thomas: Way. Yeah. You gotta fight for

0:35:17 Lydia: Not a lob.

0:35:17 Thomas: Your right to ex parte. Jay Sank, David Souther. I'm the top ambiguously non -human slash councilman slash class D felony patron. And all I got was this lousy B block shout out.

0:35:30 Thomas: Can't think of anything except abolish ice that works the blind squirrel has been crushed by these by these chunks. Today's episode is brought to you by the letter [this is a character I can't read], uh, cavalri, uh, Thomas Freeman, Cajunkilla, Fraud Fishy Hates Everything, Chris Simpson, gavel in, Gavelinos, chucking away, Anonymous Aquila, Mark Schultz, and abolish Ice, abolish Ice but spelled weird, um, okay, thank you middle group of patrons, you're the best. patreon.com/law if you'd like to support more investigative stuff like this going through the files of the worst people and

0:36:10 Matt: Is just a reminder for Elon Musk. I'm sure you've heard of the Elon Musk stuff, but I just had to show you very quickly about Elon Musk's desperate desire to get to Epstein Island. I just want to make sure people saw it. Yeah.

0:36:14 Thomas: Next line. Yeah, I remember this. Well so so first he said this. Yeah

0:36:25 Matt: But X post from June last year. Yeah, we

0:36:29 Lydia: Time to drop the really big bomb.

0:36:30 Thomas: First of all it was not a big bomb. We we already all knew that.

0:36:33 Matt: All knew.

0:36:35 Thomas: Sorry.

0:36:33 Lydia: At real Donald Trump is in the Epstein files. That is the real reason they have not been made public. Have a nice day, DJT.

0:36:41 Thomas: Yeah. No shit, dude. Oh

0:36:43 Matt: Elon Musk has asked us to deny our eyes and ears because we've got two emails here at least, in which Musk is writing to Epstein desperately begging to come to Epstein Island because he just wants to party. Here's, yeah, not

0:36:54 Lydia: So from epstein to elon musk how many people will you be for the heli to island this is november 24th 2012 so around thanksgiving time uh and then elon busk responds probably just talula and me what day night will be the wildest party on your island yeah

0:37:11 Matt: A crime to party with Mr. Epstein, folks. But you know, now this is again to Talulah and me. So maybe innocent, maybe not, but he knows that the party is on Epstein's Island.

0:37:19 Thomas: Who's that? I don't know who that is.

0:37:21 Matt: Oh, his wife at the time. So then this one, look at the date on this one. This is what he's thinking about on Christmas, 6 AM.

0:37:25 Lydia: Christmas 2012, uh from elon mosk yeah

0:37:30 Thomas: This is so Elon. This

0:37:32 Matt: 6 AM, set

0:37:32 Thomas: Is like, couldn't be more Elon. Elon.

0:37:33 Lydia: 6 a.m., yeah, like literally like you're gathering around the tree like probably Getting coffee ready. Yeah, I know. And any like normal family would be. Do you have any parties planned? I've been working to the edge of sanity this year. And so once my kids head home after Christmas, I really want to hit the party scene in St. Barts or elsewhere and let loose. The invitation is much appreciated, but a peaceful island experience is the opposite of what I'm looking for. Yeah

0:37:37 Thomas: He's not. Yeah. What? Peaceful Island.

0:38:00 Matt: Me up at the party. Yeah, I

0:38:01 Thomas: So this was in, I guess, in response to some other invitation, right? That we don't, do we have, and where

0:38:06 Matt: Mean, there definitely was correspondence. But yeah, I wanted to show because he's denied obviously that he ever had any correspondence with Epstein, that he never knew him, whatever else. And obviously, they're pretty friendly, and he's he's sending him a helicopter yes

0:38:15 Lydia: And yeah well elon musk's daughter did corroborate timing of um yeah the uh where they were and that it all lines up with with stuff

0:38:21 Matt: Christmas yeah yeah yeah

0:38:24 Thomas: They were. That was wild. Do you have, do you have have those those would be interesting to show because it was Elon Musk's daughter basically uh blue skying or tweeting I'm not sure which probably threads

0:38:30 Lydia: Yeah I can find those I saw it on threads but probably yeah probably either I don't know maybe yeah yeah

0:38:38 Thomas: I maybe she's not on Twitter she's probably not gonna be on Twitter um I hope not anyway but she was like okay this is crazy I'm just finding out about this along with all you that Elon is in the files and here's you know I can corroborate that like it literally replying in real time almost to like this this release was Elon Musk's daughter. Um, just a reminder, trans daughter that he's disowned and, uh, it's possibly one of the reasons for Elon, um, becoming a rabid anti -trans piece of shit.

0:39:03 Lydia: I sent a reddit link of that if you wanted to pull it up with the images yeah

0:39:13 Thomas: Oh my gosh. This is, this was wild. I did, I did see this on social media. It's just like, wow. Okay, so somebody put together the emails along with her it looks like. Yeah.

0:39:23 Lydia: Um, so this is uh a different Christmas, the following Christmas, I guess, December 2013, a couple weeks before. Um, we'll be in the BVI, St. Barts area over the holidays, is there a good time to visit? Uh, and then Jeffrey Epstein says I will, we'll send Heli for you. And he also says, sorry for all the typos, which I think is that the only time I've seen like apologize for his stuff. And then Elon Musk's daughter here, you can see in the threads, there was this boat ride from St. Vincent to St. Barts. I remember from when I was little, we used to visit around the holidays. I Remember the Sea Being So Dark at Night. Yeah, so just corroborating that. And dann the following pages are just additional emails. Emails.

0:40:04 Thomas: Okay, ones we've already seen. Oh, and there's this one. Another? Is this yet another Christmas? December 2013?

0:40:10 Lydia: So this is, yeah, two weeks after that first email we just did where she responded.

0:40:16 Thomas: I thought it was 11, 12, and 13, but maybe I'm wrong. Is it just 12 and 13?

0:40:21 Lydia: It's 12 and 13. Yeah. So, this is just them kind of lining up the logistics. We'll be, let's see, any day, first through the eighth, play it by ear. If you want, always space for you. Okay. Probably the first then. The second or third will be perfect.

0:40:36 Thomas: Always space for you, huh?

0:40:37 Lydia: I will come and get you, Jeffrey Epstein says to Elon. Elon responds, I need to fly back to L.A. on the night of the 2nd. Actually, I could fly back early on the 3rd. He responds again after no response. We will be in St. Barts, when should we head to your island on the 2nd?

0:40:55 Matt: Wants to go to that island yeah

0:40:56 Lydia: Yeah. Seems like desperation, actually.

0:40:58 Thomas: It seems like maybe he went to the island. The only other option is that everyone hates him so much that even Jeffrey Epstein was like this fucking guy. Uh, I'll keep, I'm going to keep giving him the runaround. That's the only other explanation I will accept. Either he went to pedophile Island a lot of times or Epstein kept being like, Oh, I sent the hell. Did you not get the helicopter I sent? Oh man. Darn. I must've gone to the wrong place.

0:41:02 Matt: And what a loser yeah yeah jeff ripson

0:41:24 Thomas: Just cause Because even Jeffrey

0:41:24 Matt: Knew a lot of losers is one thing I learned from this but this

0:41:27 Thomas: Epstein is like, fuck this guy. I can't handle this guy, that's the only other option.

0:41:29 Matt: Is yeah um all right so I've got some kind of creepy ones I just Just things we may never know what this is.

0:41:37 Thomas: Now we're going to get to the creepy ones?

0:41:38 Matt: No, sorry.

0:41:40 Thomas: These have all been totally chill and

0:41:41 Matt: Non, yeah, right. So we've got this next one is super creepy. There's a couple of these that we don't know the context, but

0:41:49 Thomas: Goes in the category, and I've kind of seen people mentioning this. I've been waiting to see what you made of it and what you verified, Matt. But, I mean, there's people theorizing about, you know, Jeffrey Epstine being responsible for, like, people being killed. And this is under that category.

0:42:04 Matt: It's, and there are allegations. I mean, certainly, I don't Know. I mean I can't defend the bed, but who knows, but I just, just the, the, the way that they're talking in this email is just so, I dunno.

0:42:15 Lydia: Yeah. So this is June 30th, 2014, approximately 3 p.m. from Redacted. Likely not a victim. This is probably somebody that shouldn't have been redacted yet.

0:42:23 Matt: Gotta protect that person. Nope.

0:42:26 Thomas: This is inappropriate. Should not be redacted.

0:42:30 Lydia: I give you permission to kill him. He is apparently with blank. He lied to you and he lied to me. And then Jeffrey Epstein responds. Whoops. I don't know why. And then he says no one will lie to you and get away with it from me no one whoops is correct oh I guess whoops that he killed him I guess maybe that's what he's implying

0:42:49 Matt: I did look.

0:42:49 Thomas: Well, so there's a number of emails. At least this is what I saw. And again, I'm waiting for Matt to verify this kind of stuff. But he seems to reply whoops after people died a number of times.

0:42:58 Matt: Yep. I searched whoops. There's like 400 whoopses and there's like, yeah.

0:42:59 Lydia: I did not see that oh

0:43:01 Thomas: 400? Okay.

0:43:03 Matt: I mean, there's lots of reasons to use it. I don't know why he just uses it all the time, but like, Mary Kennedy, one of the Kennedys dies. He's just like, whoops, weird.

0:43:11 Matt: Just really weird. She took her life. Yeah right.

0:43:13 Thomas: That's the... Well, that's the RFK Jr.'s wife. That one. That's one of the darkest things.

0:43:16 Matt: I think yes. Second wife. That's That's right. Yeah.

0:43:20 Thomas: I am really disturbed by that. This, I mean, the thing about this is like, again, we, we on the, not only on the left, but on the side of skepticism, verifying things, you know, institutions to some degree, not wanting to spread false information. It gets to the point where even we are like, what the fuck is happening here? Like the worst version of the RFK Jr.'s wife stuff that is possible, completely possible and not even like in a in a, you know, anything's possible sense, like just consistent with these facts is really ugly. I mean, she

0:43:25 Lydia: That's scary yeah

0:44:00 Thomas: Committed suicide or it's ruled a suicide, but there's reports that like her hands were inside the noose that she like that, like on her neck. Black and like I don't like it's just stuff where it's like I don't know I don'T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF ALL THIS I DON'T KNOW AND HIM SAYING WHOOPS AFTER THAT LIKE WHY WOULD YOU SAY I ACTUALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT THE INNOCENT EXPLANATION FOR THAT IS OTHER THAN HIM LIKE THIS IS A REALISTIC POSSIBILITY IF EPSTEIN WAS JUST TRYING TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE HE WAS DOING STUFF LIKE I COULD IMAGINE HIM YOU KNOW IF HE'S A SERIAL LIAR IF HE SOME YOU KNOW LIKE I CAN IMAGE HIM WANTING TO APPEAR MORE POWERFUL AND SINISTER THAN HE IS TO CERTAIN people and just for, you know, trying to like give the impression that he's responsible for things he's not like, that's like the best case explanation. And it's possible, you know, when you're dealing with a fucking lying pedophile, like, you, you know, you gotta be careful not to take his words as true only when you want to, you know? Um, yeah,

0:44:56 Matt: You're also dealing with a billionaire, and am I willing to believe the billionaires know how to have people killed if they want it?

0:44:59 Thomas: I'm not ruling it out. Yeah. Not ruling it out in any way, shape or form.

0:45:02 Lydia: The amount of money and power in all of these files is just disgusting and um terrifying I think in some ways because you'd want to think like that's stuff for the movies right like but I don't know

0:45:17 Matt: Well, this next one is as dark as it gets.

0:45:19 Thomas: This one is, yeah. I don't know what's going on I'm here this

0:45:21 Matt: There's no explanation for this. We don't know who it is. We need

0:45:23 Thomas: Was the one I saw with the with the redacted thing and it's uh that made me say say that before why is this redactive matt why is it fucking redact it's against the law is it against thelaw that this is fucking redactic right now this is not a victim they just are protecting somebody you're not they're not allowed to do that am I correct like they can just break the law they can break the law and do whatever they want it's letter of the law anyway yeah Yeah.

0:45:24 Lydia: I didn't see this great so

0:45:25 Matt: To know who this is and what's going on. Could

0:45:40 Lydia: No they're not explicitly yeah uh from

0:45:51 Thomas: Read this horrible thing, I guess, for the listeners.

0:45:52 Lydia: From Epstein to Redacted, uh, April 2009: where are you, are you okay, I loved, loved the torture video. And then this person responds, I am in China and I will be in the U.S. second week of May. And then Epstein responds to that, hope to see you.

0:46:04 Matt: Be a joke. Maybe it's not. Hope to see you, guy who sent me the torture video?

0:46:18 Thomas: Is that now after the torture video thing, is that like the equals and slash? Is that like a, some sort of face or I

0:46:23 Matt: A lot of that is in here. There's a lot of equals. Yeah. I don't know. It might be. It might have been emoji face.

0:46:27 Lydia: That could be. I don't know that I see him often. Well, this is 2009. So I have seen ones where it's the object, you know, error thing. So he did do emojis.

0:46:35 Thomas: Also see equals. There's a lot of equal. Oh, actually this is weird too, because there's an equals sent from my BlackBerry and an equals instead of a W. What the fuck?

0:46:48 Matt: Some weird replacement. Equals show up a lot in here. I really don't what's going on. But as established, he's very bad at texting and messaging. Yeah right.

0:46:51 Lydia: Not sure. Strange.

0:46:52 Thomas: That's a weird, because you know that that sent from my blackberry is not a typo because it's a signature so what the fuck so however that so when they extracted this which would have been during the original investigation I guess right maybe however they extracted it did the wrong decoding of because there's different decodings of um characters and stuff and if you mix the wrong one with, you know, then it, then I'll get stuff wrong, but, but an equals fuck.

0:46:59 Matt: Automatic.

0:47:25 Lydia: Yeah. Same Same thing from sent from my equals phone instead of iPhone.

0:47:29 Matt: Idea.

0:47:30 Lydia: So, yeah, just some weird, weird stuff going on.

0:47:34 Thomas: It's like, I don't, I, I want to turn into a crazy person, but what's all that? I don'T know what that, I DON'T know if it's sinister, but it's weird. I DON't know what the fuck's going on there. I would like to feel like we have, you KNOW, even the stuff we have. I WOULD like to feel like it's accurate. I don' t know. Um, okay.

0:47:48 Matt: Got another one. I looked for Woody Allen. There is quite a lot Woody Allen, as you might expect in this.

0:47:52 Lydia: Hmm, there is. Yeah.

0:47:53 Matt: Big fan of Woody Allen?

0:47:55 Lydia: Oh, I had a I had random Woody Allen thing. I don't think you pulled because it wouldn't really be necessarily relevant to what we're talking about. But I just want to share it with you where they're trying to plan. This is in 2018. they're trying to they're talking about trump and who might who might trump listen to who does he respect besides ivanka and they're like trying to throw some names back and forth and they'RE not sure and then um jeffrey epstein says to woody allen the crazy court case schedule is making planning our step trip difficult sorry woody alan says what crazy court case schedule and epstein responds an old one that keeps coming up um and then woody Woody Allen responds, you poor thing. It's relentless and never ending. You know, wah, wah.

0:48:24 Matt: Crazy court case. Yeah.

0:48:38 Thomas: The two, two bit, two victims there just to, ah, ah allen jeffrey epstein can't catch a break is

0:48:42 Lydia: From what I could tell, timing wise, I think it was a defamation case that he ended up settling. But yeah, that's yeah. Poor babies. OK, so now from Ismo.

0:48:53 Matt: Just a little bit of Epstein honesty on this one. Don't know who that is, doesn't matter.

0:49:01 Lydia: Funny, huh? Where are you? And Epstein responds Paris with Woody Allen this is 2012 by the way um oh gross and then Ismo responds for less pedophile convention yeah

0:49:09 Thomas: He filming that movie for late yeah lay pedophile convention oh

0:49:16 Lydia: And then Epstein response I think pedophilia is the plural cool

0:49:20 Thomas: My God so are they are they are they joking are they I get

0:49:20 Matt: So there it is. Yeah. No, just in case. Just joking around about themselves. Yeah, I mean, he's joking about them. Yeah I mean

0:49:30 Lydia: They have to I mean otherwise

0:49:31 Thomas: Is he joking that that woody Allen's a pedophile and he's like holier than thou about his pet like you know what I mean like I

0:49:32 Lydia: Like if he's just making fun of Woody Allen Allen?

0:49:38 Matt: He's saying it's a plural. They're hanging out. Yeah it's the convention.

0:49:40 Lydia: Because he's saying plural. So if he's there with Woody Allen, yeah, I mean, I don't know.

0:49:47 Matt: Maybe there were other pedophiles meeting up too, who knows, in Paris. Got plenty of them. And my

0:49:51 Thomas: Know people I know we're dealing dealing with evil people, but normally the bad guys aren't like, I'm a pedophile. Like I'm just saying I, yeah.

0:49:58 Matt: Buddy, me and my buddy just hanging out being pedophils. We're plural.

0:50:00 Thomas: Like, okay. Jesus. All right.

0:50:03 Matt: That's why I had to include it, because it's just so honest. Yeah.

0:50:05 Thomas: Holy shit. Okay.

0:50:07 Matt: The next one isn't that interesting, but I just thought I'd... Because we've mentioned Peggy Siegel before. I know I literally want to talk about her again, but of

0:50:13 Thomas: Who was that? I feel like,

0:50:14 Lydia: So PR, like, you know, really huge in New York scene, put together huge parties, was really, really, really important for a long time. If anyone listens over at Gabble Gabble, Brianna Butler -Koslow used to work for her, for Peggy Siegel. She's the person with Katie Case that then worked for the agency group with melissa nathan who also worked for epstein we found out in this dump as well crazy um so peggy siegel uh just wanted to know you know if you guys watched the epstein stuff that we've covered before we have talked about her and she continues to show up and so this is a 2009 email uh

0:50:40 Matt: Course. Yeah, I want to say I picked this just because this is an email you send a friend. I mean, I wouldn't send this email, but this is a buddy email.

0:51:01 Lydia: We are sitting in the amsterdam airport about to to take off for nair or nair I guess headed to kotar's camp in the masai mara got apologies everybody I do not know kenyan um geography very well got maddie in tow she is dressed as a runaway in ripped jeans and a hoodie and sits on the floor of every airport repacking her knapsack she's now passed out like the homeless we'll take photos and send we are going to photograph ourselves with masai in the mud huts and say we crashed the winter white house and are posing with obama's relatives wow miss

0:51:36 Thomas: My God, holy shit.

0:51:40 Matt: Yeah, this is who these people are.

0:51:42 Lydia: You keep you posted did you see sarah the d on tv or speak to her also

0:51:48 Matt: I don't know who that is, but just to give you a little taste of their friendship and the fact that Peggy Segal was definitely very intimate Like, you know my daughter Maddie, right? Obviously from this, like,

0:51:57 Lydia: Willing to send pictures of her daughter disgusting

0:51:58 Thomas: Sending pictures of your daughter to, uh, yeah... I mean this is before he was convicted or I always forget when when was he actually when would someone have known he was a convicted of something oh

0:52:01 Matt: Yes. And I've been making racist jokes about Obama. Yeah. You should have known as of 2008. So yeah, and I mean, she knew him and she organized stuff for him and

0:52:12 Thomas: Well there you go posing with obama's relatives in the mud huts jesus fucking the winter white house wow jesus christ oh

0:52:19 Lydia: Insanely racist

0:52:23 Matt: And this is one of the biggest socialites in New York, somebody who was super connected. Or Hollywood, would rather. No, not Eric. I think she also knew Eric, but yeah, that's

0:52:24 Thomas: Matt

0:52:27 Lydia: Well it helps launder his reputation she is responsible she is one of the main people responsible for laundering jeffrey epstein's reputation among the powerful and the elite Yeah,

0:52:36 Matt: Yep. And now she needs some help herself. Next, we have Kathy Rumler, who we didn't have a chance to talk about last time, actually making the Obama transition here. Wanted to note, so she was an Obama lawyer, and she has done a very good job of trying to distance herself from Epstein. You get some background on her, I think, last time we didn't get to, Lydia.

0:52:44 Thomas: That oh did this

0:52:54 Lydia: She was associate counsel to Clinton back in 2000 -2001. She was the deputy director for DOJ's Enron task force, really skilled lawyer, principal deputy White House counsel, White House Counsel to Obama 2011 -2014. And now she she's been doing like white collar defense, promoted to chief legal officer at Goldman Sachs and General Counsel in 2021. She was floated as a Supreme Court pick back in 2012. You know, someone who is really connected to the Democrat Party. I think someone that, you know, really smart, sharp legal mind. She met Epstein while a partner at Latham and Watkins. Um she says that there are trips that she is uh she was supposed to have taken with him she says they did not happen she was listed as on the the flight logs um one was to paris in 2015 one was a stop at his virgin islands home in 2017 she says um at one point I regret ever knowing Jeffrey Epstein, but her emails span from 2014 through 2019.

0:54:05 Thomas: One says 2019 it wasn't he died in 2019 right like what the hell when

0:54:11 Matt: I'm sure. He was facing charges like he was about to go to jail.

0:54:14 Thomas: Was he arrested what was that date when he was actually put in jail this

0:54:18 Lydia: Well, I think it says June 2019. Let's see. July 2019, I Think, is when he was arrested.

0:54:22 Thomas: Is like okay so So six months before that, Uncle

0:54:26 Lydia: And they continue talking until June 2019, from what I've seen. She was so close with him that she was once named the backup executor of his will um she didn't have to end up serving in that role um but they were close they were very very close um and yeah and she's tried to distance herself and then you know the emails kind of just keep coming out huh huh

0:54:49 Matt: Well, there's also just a note before we look at the email. She came up unrelated to this release. She She came up in a case just a couple of weeks ago in New York right now where there's a survivor suit that's being brought against the estate. Her name appears 571 times in this index of emails that are related to things that are pertinent to this lawsuit. And the estate is claiming that these are attorney -client privileged emails, and she's denying that they are privileged emails. She's just saying that they're communications. But the titles of these emails, which we don't have, are very clearly about legal matters, including advice on a 2015 letter to try to keep ABC from airing the Virginia Giffrey interview, which they didn't do. So she was providing him with actual legal advice, and I think that this email pretty well proves that they had some kind of business relationship, if you want to read what she's saying here.

0:55:29 Lydia: Interesting yeah I'm totally tricked out by uncle Uncle Jeffrey today, Jeffrey boots, handbag, and watch.

0:55:39 Matt: Her sugar daddy in June 2019, January 2019, rather.

0:55:42 Thomas: Jeffrey in 2019.

0:55:44 Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it's not just men. Ladies can be in the Epstein files, too.

0:55:43 Lydia: It's really gross.

0:55:46 Thomas: What the fuck is happening? Feminism.

0:55:55 Matt: Yeah, that's right.

0:55:56 Thomas: Jesus.

0:55:56 Matt: All right. Big trigger warning for the next one, especially if you grew up in the 80s and 90s. Got to say, I wasn't a huge fan, but this is disgusting.

0:56:06 Lydia: David Copperfield.

0:56:07 Matt: This is bad.

0:56:08 Thomas: Least surprising thing ever. I think Eli has some stories about that guy being a total fucking weird piece of shit.

0:56:13 Lydia: Interesting.

0:56:13 Matt: I hope he doesn't have a career left at this point. This from an FBI investigation in November 2019. So Epstein's dead at this time, I believe.

0:56:20 Lydia: Wow. Yeah in August of 2007 the Seattle FBI opened an investigation on David Copperfield in relationship to a rape of a young female. The investigation showed that Copperfield trained his employees to identify young females, teens to early 20s, in the audience of his shows. These females were separated from their boyfriends, families, and husbands and were brought backstage. Copperfield's employees were given access to a notebook that instructed them how to provide Copperfield with females. He kept a notebook with the females he was with, included in the notebook that contained contact information, whether he had sex with them, and a photograph. I don't know if any of his victims were underage. There were allegations that he drugged some of the females. I recall Epstein's name coming up in our investigation a number of times and Copperfield appeared to have a very close relationship with Epstein. His name was on a list we found that included other men, some of which had reputations like Copperfield and Epstein Our case was eventually closed because our USAO was weak and intimidated by the financial resources of Copperfield. Admittedly, the victim had issues and the jurisdictional issues were challenging. Because of the nature of the investigation, I tried to get copies of as much as I could before the original evidence was returned. I don't know if the information would help your investigation, but I thought I should let you know that some of the information should still exist.

0:56:36 Thomas: Come on. Why don't we know who this is from or two? Oh,

0:57:46 Matt: Great question. I mean, this is in the course of investigations unrelated to... The Copperfield would not be related to Epstein. So they are allowed to exclude some things for unrelated investigations, but it mentions Epstein, so it's enough to put in the files. And they're just sort of sticking it in there just in a little note that they were associated and doing the same kind of stuff. So this is Jeffrey Epstein of the magic.

0:58:04 Thomas: So this is somebody learning. So on november 2019 though huh so what invent why that late what is so after he died someone's like hey

0:58:09 Matt: I remember Epstein was part of this. And I wouldn't have thought of Epstein at the time because it's August 2007, we're in Seattle, right? So you wouldn't necessarily be thinking about the Florida investigation of somebody nobody's ever necessarily heard of at the time.

0:58:15 Lydia: Oh, by the way. Yeah.

0:58:26 Matt: But then after his death, I think maybe he jogs his memory and he writes in. I

0:58:23 Lydia: Yeah,

0:58:25 Thomas: So this is awful I I just want to in in in full fairness do we know that this like how reliable is this information about this fucking like notebook and stuff like do we know that that's real or do we like was that just somebody alleging it or so

0:58:42 Matt: Mean, clearly the FBI did because they're saying the only reason it was closed is because the U.S. Attorney's Office didn't have the strength to do it, essentially, in the investigation.

0:58:52 Thomas: This isn't email from somebody involved in Now I gotta thank our final group of patreons. These are the top patrons at patreon.com/law, these hall of famers and by the way if you want to get on this list and you want a shout out uh each and every time we do this here uh that's the five dollar level and above for at least a month So thank you to the Cincinnati Kid, Bob Loblaw's Law.... Podcast, Philly Basement Bar will be getting a new house rep in the midterms. Oh, nice.

0:59:18 Thomas: Elect Thomas Smith President, American Honkytonk Bar Association. Baltakatei, Philip Kizer. In Soviet Russia, Dennis Prager, you. Stupid. I love that. Coryn_Lann Lann.

0:59:31 Matt: Made me laugh all

0:59:32 Lydia: Someone already watched No Safe Spaces and listened to The Gam, yeah.

0:59:35 Thomas: God, that's so funny because I feel like I thought of like, it's a joke like that. I don't, I didn't say that, did I? No, I did. Coryn_Lann, a string of unpronounceable characters. Malaika Chandler, RhondaTheDork.com. Milo Meadsong is fighting petty tyrants, hors d'oeuvres in the court before we report, Big Easy Blasphemy, Chris Waltrip, FRED R GROOTHUIS, Sam Donow, Classic libtard, and Mitchell, our patron champion. Thanks so much, patrons, for making this happen.

0:59:57 Lydia: Mitchell. You guys are the best.

1:00:02 Thomas: Right, well, uh, next thing it looks like we've got our old pal Dershowitz back, huh?

1:00:07 Matt: Among others, this is quite a document. Now again, this is just a level up from, we looked at some of the tips last time. I will note there were a bunch of tips about Donald Trump that were removed from this dump and just are not there anymore. Somebody did capture copies. We can take a quick look. But the tips, as we talked about last time, are not all that reliable. They're just people who can just call in or fill out a form.

1:00:25 Matt: But this is an actual interview with the FBI with a confidential human source, that's CHS. And so this is a CHS reporting document. And there's some interesting facts that the CHS is passing along. And I don't know what to make. We're not going to read all of them. I just wanted to highlight a few things here. As we go, you can see the information here hear about Dershowitz, though, in the middle paragraph.

1:00:26 Thomas: Jokes

1:00:46 Lydia: Harvard Law Professor Alan Dershowitz, CHS, learned that Dershowitz influenced many students from wealthy families. For example, Josh Kushner and Jared Kushner were both his students. Dershowitz told CHS that if he were young again, he would be holding a stun gun as an Israeli intelligence Mossad agent.

1:01:06 Thomas: On you they don't use stun guns they just kill people sorry

1:01:08 Matt: Dream big, Alan.

1:01:10 Lydia: CHS believed Dershowitz was co-opted by Mossad and subscribed to their mission. CHS still continues to communicate occasionally for Dershowitz.

1:01:18 Thomas: If I missed it sorry what's chs

1:01:19 Lydia: A captioned confidential human source is what it says up at the top.

1:01:23 Matt: Yep. So the guy they're interviewing, whoever it is. This person has a lot of information, and it seems credible to me, but let's check out the next paragraph.

1:01:23 Thomas: Oh gotcha gotcha okay

1:01:29 Lydia: Interesting. Jeffrey Epstein was represented by Dershowitz. CHS remembered Dershowitz tell Alex Acosta, U.S. Attorney of Southern District of Florida at the time, that Epstein belonged to both U.N. and allied intelligence services. CHS shared phone calls between Dershowitz and Epstein, during which he slash she took notes. After these calls, Mossad would then call Dershowitz to debrief. Epstein was close to the former prime minister of Israel, Ehud Barak, and trained as a spy under him. Barak believed Netanyahu was a criminal. Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the United Arab Emirates are allied against Qatar, Turkey, Iran, and Syria. One of CHS's, who presumably worked blank, asked CHS a lot of questions about Epstein. CHS became convinced that Epstein Was a co -opted Mossad agent.

1:02:19 Matt: See previous reporting. Yeah. So I mean, they're being shown notes of a phone call. We know that Epstein was close to Barack. There's a joke. We don't want to show the email here, but there is a jokey email between Barack and Epstein, where he's like, you're not going to tell anybody about Mossad, right? Smiley face and it's just that kind of stuff.

1:02:37 Matt: It keeps going on the next page. Again, I'm not sure what to think about a lot of this, but it is more credible because it seems like it was investigated a lot more than the usual tip. I'm saying it's true or false, I am just saying that it seems to be backed up by something.

1:02:38 Thomas: Man yeah

1:02:52 Lydia: Interesting.

1:02:52 Matt: We don't have to read all this now, but there's some information about how Russia was co -opting the Trump presidency, how Jared Kushner was a lot more influential than they might have realized, helping to move Russian money around. And CHS, at the bottom paragraph there, believed that there's a real collusion story here. And again, I don't know. I don t know what this person's agenda is or what's really going on, but Kushner's the real brains. And in the first term, it certainly seemed like Kushner was responsible for quite a lot.

1:03:17 Matt: We're not seeing him as much now. But yeah,

1:03:20 Thomas: Just to clarify everything, there's, and I mentioned this, there's tip line type stuff that could just be completely fucking bullshit but this is a different thing than that, right? This is actually, when they say confidential human source, worse this means it's a little more serious than that they could be still saying stuff that's not true right I mean could who knows but like that's more than just like some rando called with a tip or something right yeah

1:03:36 Matt: There's somebody there working. And they're actually doing a full investigation or a full interview. I mean, again, yeah, we don't mention it if we get full credit, but even when the parentheses, it says, see previous investigation. I mean, there's something going on here. This is one of those things, and there's so many of them in these files, and maybe there's more we're going to start to piece together, but one of the little threads, things that you could pull that just seem interesting, worth talking about.

1:03:58 Thomas: What the hell huh

1:04:08 Lydia: Hmm, that first one right there just kind of, you know, one of the other big things that we've seen is relation with the tech industry and Silicon Valley. Valley. And this first one here, Masha Drakova, telephone number redacted, is based in Silicon Valley. She's been running a firm called Day One Ventures, which is supposedly an early stage investment company. She used to be Russian President Vladimir Putin's main contact in the Russian youth movement. CHS and Drakova spoke, but Drakova did not talk at all about technology. Instead, she looked at CHS, and said, quote, you knew Epstein, didn't you? She said Epstein was a, quote, wonderful man, and that it was a crying shame what is being done to him, what had been done to hem, I guess. CHS concluded Day One Ventures was in Silicon Valley to steal technology.

1:04:45 Thomas: It was oh so this is after he died I didn't realize that they're talking about this right right okay so

1:04:58 Lydia: Interesting. Okay.

1:04:59 Matt: And this is, again, just so we're being intellectually honest, this is a few weeks before the election as well. So they can say whatever they want to say about that.

1:05:06 Thomas: The 2020 or 2024 election okay interesting phoebe's

1:05:13 Matt: Just kind of putting it out there. Some more from the CHS, just a few more details. This one actually doesn't have anything much. You can go to the next one. In terms of what we actually need to read there's really not we can link to this document it's just interesting but the next one yes Rex Dillis yeah she's got some beef with Kushner

1:05:27 Lydia: Is this Rex's wife? Rex Tillerson's wife. Interesting. Okay, CHS stated blank, Renda Tillerson, telephone number blank, Renda is the wife of Rex Tillerson, former secretary of state for Trump. Renda told CHS about smears in the New York Post and how Jared was running a rival State Department operation. Rex affirmed Renda's claim, of course he did. Renda was introduced to CHS by Darren Blanton. Renda and Rex both told CHS they had been under intense surveillance. Renda called CHS, she can't wait for the FBI to call her so that she can tell them everything she knows.

1:06:03 Matt: So fascinating whatever is going on there with oh yes Judge Sugarman is back another well law professor I think we've touched on briefly but yeah he's a

1:06:10 Lydia: I don't remember. Yeah,

1:06:05 Thomas: Jed Sugarman. Who is that again? I know that name. Yeah, sorry. There's something it's just too many creeps and weirdos and lawyers and whatever. Jed sugar that why is it so familiar? I feel like we've have

1:06:17 Lydia: It's overwhelming.

1:06:21 Matt: Law professor at BU he's done a lot of writing but he's not necessarily a bad guy but he is we

1:06:25 Thomas: We have we had him on the show?

1:06:28 Lydia: No, I don't think so.

1:06:28 Matt: Might have Yeah, no, but it's

1:06:30 Thomas: I think pre Matt.

1:06:31 Matt: Possible. He's not necessarily a... I

1:06:33 Thomas: I think it's possible.

1:06:33 Matt: Think so, yeah. I think he might have...

1:06:35 Thomas: Because that name is really sticking out to me.

1:06:36 Lydia: Well, interesting. According to him, Jed Sugarman, and Whitney Webb, Leon Black owns the mercenary firm formerly known as Blackwater, now Constellis, which has been accused of being involved in several arms and human trafficking scandals. Black is also the CEO of Apollo. New York Times noted that Black, quote, inexplicably stood by Jeffrey Epstein recently giving him $50 million. Apollo also lent the Kushners $184 million while Kushner was facing his 666 Fifth Avenue disaster.

1:07:05 Thomas: Yeah, 2020, 08409, Judge Sugarman on Trump's unfaithful execution of the oath, 8 -3 -2020.

1:07:05 Matt: Yeah, I just thought. Yeah, he is an incredible source for this kind of stuff. And I forgot to mention that Leon Black also was a major owner of Blackwater. It's just to have one more nexus of evil in there.

1:07:22 Thomas: That seems pretty, yeah.

1:07:24 Matt: Yeah. So, no.

1:07:25 Thomas: So according to Judge Sugarma, okay. So it's not like he did anything wrong in here. It's just like referencing him.

1:07:33 Matt: No, just he's as a source.

1:07:34 Lydia: Wow, like he's involved with this and is sticking by Epstein and here's all the money.

1:07:38 Matt: Yeah this page is especially full full of like very verifiable stuff. I mean, Rex Tillerson and his wife and, you know, a lot of Professor Whitney when he was a journalist. Elliot Brody is another person that Michael Cohen was doing some work for, if I remember correctly, on the next one.

1:07:51 Lydia: Recently pled to charges related to money laundering unregistered lobbying for the uae brody previously paid a former playboy model over a million dollars to stay quiet about an affair he had with her brody allegedly successfully lobbied to increase u .s sanctions on the government of qatar chs advised since brody Broidy was purportedly the largest fundraiser for Trump supporting the 2016 presidential election. He apparently used his access to Trump to lobby. Joel Malbray, telephone number blank, has been in Broidy's inner circle. CHS believed MalbrAY was an unregistered lobbyist. MalbrAy was one of the, quote, shiftiest people CHS had ever encountered. MalbrY was a convert to Judaism. CHS stated MalbrAy would flip on Broidy because he's a, quote flipper. Congressman Ed Royce was close to Broidy and has been trying to do shady things. NFI.

1:08:39 Thomas: NFI.

1:08:41 Matt: Sure about that.

1:08:42 Lydia: Royce's wife may be a lobbyist who works with Broidy.

1:08:45 Matt: I want to note this because Elliot Broody was one of Michael Cohen's only three or four clients. You might remember he, as a lawyer, otherwise just a fixer. But one of the major things he did was negotiate this kind of a payoff the way that he did for Trump. So just interesting. This person has a wide range of interesting knowledge at the very least, right? And then this final one is kind of an interesting point.

1:09:07 Lydia: CHS emphasized the importance for the FBI to investigate Gawker for its involvement in pushing Russian propaganda. Matt Mellon told CHS that after Gawker was destroyed, the Russian intelligence service started using Zero Hedge to influence U.S. people.

1:09:21 Matt: No surprise there, if you know Zero Hedge. But yeah, just an interesting... I just think this is, yeah, it is weird.

1:09:25 Lydia: I don't know Zero Hetch. Yeah,

1:09:26 Thomas: Weird about Gawker, though. Is that the one that Peter Teal took out? Hulk Hogan?

1:09:32 Matt: But and with Hulk Hogan. Yeah, that's right.

1:09:36 Thomas: Which was a real weird, like, they were in the wrong, but also fuck Peter Peter Thiel and Hulk Hogan, like, but, but they were, I didn't never heard of them being, so they investigate Gawker for its involvement in pushing Russian propaganda. Who knows what the hell this is?

1:09:46 Matt: No, I hadn't heard that either, but who knows? And the CHS could definitely have his own agenda, no question, his or her. So yeah.

1:09:57 Thomas: Definitely does. I'm sure. Um, but that, you know, that's the thought that occurred to me as we're talking about this is like, look, we, um, we here on the show and me particularly, like obviously not a huge fan of police, uh, and all that. That, this would be a good reason to have competent FBI, right? I mean, competent FBI competent US attorneys, right, competent people in DOJ. There are things that you want people like that for, you know, that you do want, quote, unquote, cops for some stuff. And I think, if we're going to, on one hand, talk about how horrible this stuff is, I think we should acknowledge that, That, hey, why don't we, for one, in 2028 or 9, whatever, you know, like 2029, Project 2029 I guess it would be, like, get rid of all the Trump idiots in some of these places, staff up with real people who are good and competent and who want to investigate actual disgusting stuff like this.

1:10:57 Thomas: Like, real investigators, you now? Know, because we have nothing now, like so many people have left and the people who are remaining are probably just, for the most part, such trump toady incompetent people. Like, you know, who knows how much, I feel like if you're a, you're probably feeling pretty emboldened, you know, like with how little resources they have. First of all, all their resources are going to try to cover up this. Like currently all DOJ resources is, hey, let's redact the right stuff for covering up for Trump and others, you know, so like they're busy, so, uh, yeah, that's it, that's gonna be a time that's ripe to get away with stuff because they just don't have the right people there

1:11:41 Matt: True. It's true, I've just sent you one more, a couple other things, but just one more thing before we go here. This is just with the Russian thing. This is Epstein writing to a Russian business person. We don't know exactly who it is. And this is another kind of creepy, weird email that shows the level of comfort he has with Russians and with Russian sex trafficking.

1:12:01 Thomas: Right. Taking a look at that. Hmm. Two, some sort of Russian characters.

1:12:05 Lydia: So this is to a Russian.

1:12:08 Thomas: Yeah. Image attachments. Image result for redacted model 600 by 400.

1:12:08 Lydia: Yeah from Epstein blank model.

1:12:08 Matt: Cyrillic yeah yeah I think it's a headshot maybe it's going to be relevant a minute here

1:12:22 Lydia: Interesting.

1:12:22 Thomas: Interesting.

1:12:23 Lydia: Okay. So it says, how are you? I need a favor. There is a Russian girl from Moscow blank she is attempting to blackmail a group of powerful businessmen in New York

1:12:33 Matt: Business

1:12:33 Thomas: With a Z. What the business, man?

1:12:34 Matt: And yeah here's

1:12:35 Lydia: You guys if you're listening to this in audio yeah b -i -z -n -e -s -s m -a -n in New York it is bad for business for everyone involved she arrived New York Saturday of last week staying at the Four Seasons on 57th Street suggestions yeah

1:12:37 Thomas: Then god jesus christ huh oh

1:12:50 Matt: Her picture and where she's currently staying do you have any ideas about what to do with this russian girl who's blackmailing powerful men writing to a russian man I I don't what are we supposed to think this is yeah

1:12:55 Thomas: That's a good wow I don't and the fact that it's like here let me go to my contact for this kind of thing hey need a favor russian girl from moscow she's attending a black male group of it is bad for business for everyone involved what the fuck

1:13:04 Lydia: That is strange yeah

1:13:07 Matt: At the very least this is go threaten her but at the most it's go hurt her or killer.

1:13:16 Thomas: Suggestions yeah what would what would that what would the innocent explanation oh by the way here's where she's staying. Wow. Okay. This is fucking nuts, man.

1:13:24 Matt: Just to give you a picture of Jeffrey Epstein's regular correspondence. And again, just for people who say that this was just limited to him and his friends and that this whole thing's been overblown, these little touches we're getting, these little basic things. And we can end very quickly just because I think a lot of people are going to be repeating the stuff they've heard about the Trump tips. And I just wanted to give you a look at the Trump tip. This is an archive.

1:13:45 Matt: They were backed up by someone, as a lot stuff stuff was. We don't have to read all these, but you can see all the stuff is highlighted. These are all allegations involving Trump. They're disgusting. And I'm willing to believe that quite a few of these things are true, but we don't Have to read them. But I just want to give you a taste because you'll probably hear people repeat some of these and say that these things definitely happened or that Trump is known to have done these things. And as you said, yes.

1:14:04 Lydia: There's a lot of very salacious stuff in here. And so I think that that is a really easy thing for people to want to repeat.

1:14:11 Matt: To repeat. Yeah.

1:14:12 Lydia: Exactly.

1:14:08 Thomas: So let me ask you some just to get some good information on this because there seems to be an email that this is in and it says, are you able to send me blank full, you know, redacted full NTOC report? What's NTOCs report?

1:14:26 Matt: That would be the I'm not sure, actually. I'm sorry.

1:14:29 Thomas: And that email is from Special Agent Child Exploitation and Human Trafficking Task task force in the FBI, right?

1:14:36 Lydia: And let

1:14:36 Matt: Because they have to to report all these of

1:14:37 Lydia: Me chime in really fast. It says regarding the Alexander brother allegations. And so this is also something that's been coming up.

1:14:42 Thomas: Well it said we need to interview regarding

1:14:46 Lydia: Right. So the Alexander brothers are pieces of shit. They're horrible. Horrible real estate people and credible accusations, allegations of human trafficking and sexual abuse, a variety of things, also were clients of Melissa Nathan.

1:14:51 Thomas: These awful like real estate people or something right ntoc yeah

1:15:07 Lydia: So I'm going to keep bringing that up. And I'm sure the bot army is going to come after me because they've been going after everybody else who brings this stuff up lately in the last couple of days. So welcome, welcome bots yeah yep

1:15:07 Matt: Course yeah no

1:15:07 Thomas: She sucks um yeah this is it's and it's weirdly all kind of connected you know like it's it kind of is like the the gavel gavel blake lively stuff we're doing the people involved in that are not entirely unconnected from this like melissa nathan is involved with Epstein and the whole the one of the reasons we're so interested in that is the Jed Wallace stuff which is this weird internet like manipulation stuff that he's doing that we haven't gotten a good idea of it now and unfortunately I feel like he's might get away with it we'll see how it ends up going because I think he's been good at like covering his tracks and playing dumb or he's a huge fraud I don't know it could be that but it seems like these people are capable capable of manipulating the internet pretty seriously. And

1:15:31 Matt: No surprise yeah sure

1:16:03 Thomas: Like we've, we've seen an example, again, I know I'm going off topic, but related to gavel gavel, we're seeing an example of there was someone who put on like a, what is it? Instagram, some sort of video, an allegation against Justin Baldoni. And that video was just gone from the internet. Like, which is hard to do. Like, I don't like, there's nowhere you can find it until miraculously they had to produce it in in discovery because Melissa Nathan took a screen recording of it. Like when they were saying, Hey, need to, Oh, or okay.

1:16:30 Lydia: Think jennifer abel did but yeah yeah yeah

1:16:33 Thomas: Able one of one of the other took a green recording of it. And it's like this horrible, bad quality version. That's the only version anyone can find. So like, how do you get rid of something from the internet? I mean, it just seems like, I don't know. I don'T pretty much.

1:16:44 Lydia: Notably anything you put on the internet lasts forever but not if you're this guy not if youre jed wallace

1:16:49 Thomas: Not, not if you're certain people, I guess. And maybe there's an innocent explanation. Like she put it up and no one saw it. And then they contacted her and got her to take it down, I guess, maybe like, but like, it seems crazy, like that level of important thing. And that was as I think the controversy was blowing up. So like people would have seen that.

1:17:00 Lydia: I don't know it was early yeah yeah

1:17:08 Thomas: So they, they might be capable of doing things with the internet that are like, it's getting a little scary out there. I don't know. Again, I'm trying not to turn into Alex Jones. I don'T, anyway, what is an NTOC?

1:17:14 Matt: For enough money I believe it sure sure yeah uh

1:17:20 Thomas: Is that by context?

1:17:21 Matt: That is the national sorry

1:17:22 Thomas: It's good.

1:17:22 Matt: National threat operations center so that's basically it's tip line it's where you report fbi tips

1:17:26 Thomas: OK, so it is the tip line. And so when we look at this, it has a format that I just want to like, I think it'll be helpful to put this into context if you kind of explain the basics of what this is. So see below with criminal history and disposition. I'm reaching out to get clarification on the response to redacted. So it'll have name, complaint summary, response, criminal history. Now, is the criminal history of the are

1:17:51 Matt: The reporter so the person who called it in just so you can know that what kind of witness they're going to be I

1:17:54 Thomas: You sure? Because like that, like, are you sure it's not like someone because that would mean all of them have a criminal history and they're quickly able to, like verify that. Actually, yeah. Would they even know who the caller is in all times? Like, or is it anonymous sometimes?

1:18:12 Matt: Mean all these people are identifying themselves.

1:18:15 Lydia: They are identifying anything themselves I

1:18:15 Thomas: But they might have like a name they gave. But but that would that be enough to get their criminal history? Or is that I guess what I'm suggesting is, is that that criminal history column more about like anyone related to the complaint, like anyone in the complaint versus the, okay.

1:18:29 Matt: I would guess. I mean, the FBI can run anybody with name and birthday. They can at least try to approximate if that person has history. They need to know if they complain and just who they're dealing with.

1:18:38 Thomas: I know, but what are the odds that all, like every single one has a thing? So, okay, almost every single one has criminal history. Like are the odds that every single person calling this tip line has a criminal history? I guess parking tickets or something?

1:18:49 Lydia: Mean

1:18:48 Matt: It's possible. A lot more people do than you might think. Yeah, that's

1:18:50 Lydia: Well everything has has something entered in there it doesn't mean that it is a criminal history it could be like none or you know like I think they would because that's still information that um that they want to but

1:18:58 Thomas: If they wouldn't redact, they wouldn'T redact that. Well, some of them are blank. So I think if it was none, they would just leave it blank. Well no, maybe Maybe that's no. No, maybe that's not true. Never mind. None of them are blank. So I don't know. OK, well, anyway, so complaint summary. What did we want to like give people a taste here?

1:19:08 Lydia: I don't and yeah I don't know hard to say yeah

1:19:15 Matt: I just wanted to just give people the idea. Something like on page page two, I just want to give you an example that in 1987, if you look in the middle there, this is a wild allegation. And this is the kind of thing that I can imagine somebody repeating on social media or making a TikTok video about and reading it and saying, look what Donald Trump did, right? Now, again, I think we're all willing to believe that Donald Trump has had people killed. I don't know that he's had people kill, but this is story about Donald Trump having somebody killed, the FBI notes, they can't contact this person because they're dead and the complainant didn't have any confirmed information at all. And there's an email at the end of this that says, look, a lot of this is secondhand information. You have to know that there's like secondhand, thirdhand hearsay. But the FBI

1:19:51 Thomas: And who highlighted these why are they highlighted okay

1:19:56 Matt: Said they highlighted these salacious information, like I guess the most interesting or most relevant stuff. I don't know. But this is,

1:20:00 Thomas: So this isn't whoever like collected this file and put it up here this is like actually the FBI did the highlighting

1:20:06 Matt: Yeah, the FBI did the highlighting. And this is a collection specifically of allegations about Trump. And this was removed from the Epstein document done from a few days ago. It's no longer there. That's why it's on archive .org. But this is definitely, it was there.

1:20:15 Lydia: Is gone now okay yeah sure

1:20:20 Matt: But, you know, this story is about somebody who gets into a fight. Excuse me, somebody who meets Trump.

1:20:16 Thomas: Why don't you just let me read this one for the listeners so we can just

1:20:26 Lydia: Caller

1:20:25 Matt: I guess. Yeah, just to give you an idea of.

1:20:27 Thomas: Give one of them yeah and

1:20:28 Lydia: Reported that in 1987 a friend, victim one was out drinking and ended up at Trump Plaza, victim one saw Donald Trump and wanted to meet him. An unknown man approached her and offered to introduce her to Trump. The unknown man gave victim one a drink and victim one woke up naked and sore with $300 on the bed. Victim one didn't remember how she got to the room. She remembered seeing, quote, a flash of Trump's face. Victим one called the caller and told her she thought she had been raped. VictIM one did not go to a hospital to have a rape kit performed because she didn't think anyone would believe her, especially because she was drunk. Victim One's husband's business had problems with suppliers, and Victim One believed Trump was behind it. Victam One also started dating a lawyer, identifiers unknown, who was married. Victum One had a fight with her lawyer boyfriend and went to a bar. Victım One left a bar with a man who no one in the bar recognized, but who seemed familiar with Victim one. Victüm One was never seen again. A few years ago, remains were discovered that matched the description of what Victim 1 was wearing when she went missing. DNA tests at the time were inconclusive.

1:21:32 Matt: So, you now, again, this.

1:21:33 Thomas: Then this column in the middle says no contact made victim identified is deceased and complainant did not have confirmed information

1:21:41 Matt: So this is fairly typical of these tips that like, I heard a story from a friend or I knew this friend's husband or something like that. And there's a lot of stuff in here. There are details like, obviously waking up and not knowing what happened to you and thinking you remembered spending the night with Donald Trump. That's totally believable. We're all willing to believe that happened, but we can't just repeat it as truth. And I just wanted to make that point.

1:22:01 Thomas: Especially because it's it's caller saying that victim one said that and they've been dead for however many years.

1:22:07 Matt: Years, yeah.

1:22:08 Thomas: Yeah. Jesus, 30 years. So yeah, it's, and it's claims they saw a flash of Trump's face is like, there's a lot of people in the world and there's a lot people who might want to, you know, again, people who want, might want to like take Trump down in some way. And I could believe that, that a lot of this is made up. Yeah, that's the thing is it's I think it's hard to know. Is there anything now, is there anything that gives us like in these other columns where it might be able to indicate if it's more plausible just based on whatever work they did verifying this or are these all going to kind of just be like unverifiable things

1:22:08 Lydia: 30 years.

1:22:42 Thomas: Yeah

1:22:42 Matt: Just recording the tips as they come in, really. And again, there's some stuff that's consistent between these about parties and about Trump abusing women at parties, girls at parties like young girls. So again, but no any one of these is in any way as credible as the people that we know were there and somebody like the person who kept that journal. So I'm not putting it on that level in any way. But, you know, something like, you know, Alan Dershowitz was there. Like we know on Dershouitz there's a lot of these parties, there's all of these events. But they're, like you said, there might be reasons that somebody might want to call in and just say, yeah, Dershouse was there too. So, you know, again, who knows?

1:23:14 Thomas: These are the ones where it's I I think I think most of these are just bullshit um

1:23:18 Matt: That's why I wanted to put it up. Yeah. Cause we can't trust it.

1:23:20 Thomas: And and you can't just put this uh these are these arethe ones that people are sharing just being like oh my god can't believe it it's like yeah I I can't belive it

1:23:28 Matt: Well, see that thing about Lisa Marie Presley up there, you just passed like that kind of thing where caller's talking about crimes committed against her. This is the kind of thing I'd expect people to call into the FBI, right? Lisa Marie Ray Presley, the British royal family, President Trump, and Jeffrey Epstein, right? That's just very vague.

1:23:42 Thomas: There's a lot of crazy people out there there'sa lot of people who want to be relevant and who are are gonna you know report things using the names that are familiar to them and claiming that you know so it's a lot of this is just I I think most of this bullshit honestly matt

1:23:56 Matt: So don't share the TikTok video that's like, oh my God, look what's in the Epstein files until you know which part of the Epsteins files it's in. A lot of different components here as we're finding. So next time, I want to talk more about the plea deal and about how we got to the point where, because we've gone over some of this before, we looked at some of the work correspondence, but there is some more rocks down to overturn. There's some more worms siding here. And it

1:24:18 Thomas: Are you saying last time when we that was we put out the video last time it was about how fucking shitty the plea deal thing was we already knew it was bad I believe I titled the video something like that we already know it was and it was even worse based on the so you're saying we're getting a a third degree of worse with this file dump.

1:24:30 Matt: Gets worse, a really bad third degree

1:24:36 Thomas: Oh my God.

1:24:36 Matt: Worse. Yeah. And we have one

1:24:37 Thomas: We need to talk about this.

1:24:37 Matt: Very honest US attorney who is the only woman I believe on the team who's pushing very hard to, yep, pushing very harder to wonder why Alex Acosta isn't doing anything. And then we have a previously undisclosed conflict of interest that has developed in here that is very, very bad.

1:24:41 Thomas: What are the odds? Oh my god. Oh My God. I don't want to wait for this, Matt. I want this now. Well, we are out of time. Unfortunately, we got it. We're going to, we're going to do more on this. This is really important. I mean, honestly, we could just cover this for a year probably.

1:24:53 Lydia: Honestly,

1:24:55 Matt: We're going to have to come back. Yep.

1:25:04 Lydia: Yeah.

1:25:04 Thomas: Maybe we should. I Mean, we might want to just start working through this stuff on a regular basis because it's really important.

1:25:04 Matt: Millions of months of content. Yeah,

1:25:11 Thomas: And it's, I mean, geez, but I am, that is quite a teaser, Matt, because I haven't, once again, that was something that we highlighted that didn't get a whole lot of coverage. And I'm, I haven't seen, like some of the stuff that you've showed us, I did see just like absorbed in the zeitgeist a little bit, haven't seen anything about the deal. So I'm wondering if we're going to be kind of, you know, with 3 million documents released, least like there's going to be a lot missed by a lot of people and I'm glad we're focusing on that so um I'm excited for this

1:25:40 Matt: I mean, I don't care

1:25:41 Lydia: Gonna be us and like local

1:25:42 Thomas: Now they're all owned by Sinclair and they won't care, Sinclair Broadcasting group oh

1:25:42 Lydia: News like basically specific to that area.

1:25:44 Matt: Because we could spend a right no it's it's we got to get independent media for a lot of the stuff we could just spend a long time talking about the owner of the New York Giants but I don't care about that. I care about the lawyers, so that's what we're gonna be coming back and talking about

1:25:58 Thomas: I do care about the all the owners yeah

1:25:58 Lydia: We might we might touch on that later another time.

1:26:01 Thomas: It's like I mean it's knowing about more of these creeps, you know, and there's... there's memes where it was like NFC West is glad that no, no owner like this division is like celebrating that none of their owners were in the Epstein files system it's like fucking yeah it's true yeah who knows yeah

1:26:12 Matt: Not yet plenty more to come sure

1:26:17 Lydia: They could be in the worst part that they're not releasing. Who knows?

1:26:19 Thomas: Ridiculous okay well this Matt, Lydia, thanks so much. And we will be back at this probably tomorrow and we'll get this stuff out as soon as we can because this is important stuff. We'll see you then. All

1:26:29 Lydia: See

1:26:30 Matt: Right more soon

1:26:30 Lydia: Ya.

1:26:34 Clip: This has been Opening Arguments, produced by Thomas and Lydia Smith, with editing help from Peter Baird. The intro is by Thomas Smith. This outro is by Matt Cameron. Support the show at patreon .com slash law. Contact us through Patreon or openarguments at gmail .com. Make sure to follow our blue sky at OpenArgs. But most of all, please share the show. Thanks for listening.