A New Gavel Gavel Trial! U.S. v. Dunn - Assault with a Deli Weapon

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:00 Thomas: Opening Arguments listeners. It's Thomas, obviously. Happy new year. Hope your 2026 is going great. We're not exactly like on a vacation or anything, we have been taking the opportunity to air some other things this week. This is a great one. Look everyone I'm sure knows about gavel gavel and folks listen over there some folks maybe weren't as interested in the Blake Lively thing which way I wanted to take the chance to maybe rope some of you back on over to gavel because we've got a new trial that we're doing we're is the sandwich trial. For today's OA, you get to hear gavel gavel, I guess 51, which is USV done number one. One was so much fun. It's so funny. And we're going to get back to that trial transcript readings style that did for the Trump trial. We're going back to dat for USV done. Just hand it off and you Can hear me, Matt and Lydia introduce it and talk about it and review the video of the crime itself. It's so much fun. I love this episode so much. You enjoy head And if you do enjoy, maybe subscribe to Gaivel Gavel and wait for the next one to come out. Right, here you go.

0:01:33 Thomas: Gavel in, gavel in. Oh, we've got a new gavelino. I'm Thomas. That over there is Lydia. And yeah, I was just going to say, I need to figure, what are your gavel pronouns?

0:01:41 Lydia: Gavalystilidia.

0:01:47 Thomas: Welcoming back an original gavelista. It's Matt Cameron. How are you doing?

0:01:53 Matt: Gavalero? I could be, maybe. Gavalera.

0:01:55 Thomas: Yeah, gavenos and gavelistas is what we've gotten so far.

0:01:59 Matt: Gaballero? Wait, I don't know. Anyway. Well, it's always together. But yeah, I'm very excited to be back. Of course, I love this show and love what you guys have been doing with it. But I'm ready to get back to you. I've been excited to do this since we first thought, since we first realized we could do it, to cover this trial in particular, because it's a perfect gavel -gavel trial, as far as I'm concerned. Because it's very short. It's fairly simple. It's very entertaining. And nobody got hurt, most importantly. What I really like in this. Nobody actually got hurt.

0:02:07 Lydia: It loves you. You. The diehard

0:02:28 Thomas: Well, a sandwich did.

0:02:29 Matt: Well, that's true. A sandwich was wasted.

0:02:30 Thomas: And hopefully whoever it was thrown at, but I don't know.

0:02:34 Matt: No. It is also an acquittal. So just to spoil everything, justice will get done in this case. Another reason we're talking about it. But

0:02:41 Thomas: Me give our Gavalinos some more context because I are folks who've been listening to, yeah, exactly.

0:02:47 Lydia: Lively V. Baldoni folks.

0:02:49 Thomas: They're going to be like, so which sandwich was Lively and which sandwich which was Baldoni. No. So we had mentioned, gosh, now a month back probably, had mentioned that we were going to try to incorporate another trial or, you know, legal thingy, I suppose, either way into this, because it's been, obviously it's has been now a year since the Baldoni thing first broke.

0:03:12 Lydia: Yeah. That's so crazy.

0:03:13 Thomas: So that our first episodes, it hasn't quite been a year yeah it's been a since the article dropped essentially and uh that's too long it's too Long to be working on this this one thing but this is that that is really feeling like it's going to trial I mean I think we'll have an answer pretty soon because there's the judge is doing a lot of the like force them to do the settlement talk that they have to do and I think that's formality or I don't think it's going well. I don't think it's going to go well. So I I am glad that we're, you know, right on top of that and going to have all the info we need, possibly going into covering a trial of that, which will be really fun. But at the same time, it's been a lot and we've wanted to be able to do other stuff, see other trials. You know, we're not,

0:03:16 Lydia: Think, yeah, I think we're at 10 months. Yeah. It up a little bit. Monagas.

0:03:58 Thomas: We're not, you monogamists in life or law. And so we've been keeping our eye out. Think we've got our trial. I think it's time to go. I think I think that we've got it. Why don't you tell us why we landed on this one?

0:04:15 Matt: There's so many reasons to cover this trial. But I know first of all it's a case that everybody, at least briefly on social media, really enjoyed. And we got to have some joy in our lives, right? We have to enjoy the small things. The fact is that we have this hero, this man Sean Dunn. I'm going to say right up front that it is the official position of this show that you do not throw things at ICE officers. Please do not take anything we're saying as endorsement of throwing things at ice officers. Just need to say that disclaimer right up front.

0:04:40 Thomas: Question. Can I say, but it's also sick as hell, even if I say don't, don't do it.

0:04:45 Matt: So yeah, that's the problem with this episode is that you're going to agree, I think, by the end that Sean Dunn is actually a hero because the reason he did this actually wasn't really reported.

0:04:53 Thomas: Sandwich was too spicy? I don't know. It was a Larry David-esque situation in which he actually just didn't like his sandwich. Had nothing to do with ice.

0:05:05 Matt: Just disposing of a sandwich and it happened to be an ICE officer there.

0:05:07 Thomas: And he's like, yeah. Took up a whole cause behind him. The

0:05:11 Matt: There's just a lot more context here, I think, that is worth talking about. The stretch goal here is we'd love to get the defendant as lawyers on, but we'll see how it goes. As federal charges go, this is not too serious, as I was saying, but it's indicative of something that's going on in D .C. right now, which is that they're charging all kinds of people with federal crimes who should not be charged with federal crime, and grand juries and juries are not playing. They just aren't interested. And checked, and of 100 people charged with felony assaults on federal agents in kind of situation around the country, 55 have already been reduced to misdemeanors or dismissed already. Five defendants who've gone to trial on these kinds of things have already been acquitted, including this one.

0:05:45 Thomas: Six.

0:05:46 Matt: I think it's relevant because obviously kind thing does not belong in federal court, but it's DC, so they've just been throwing everything to federal court. And this also happened right at the beginning of sort of the Trump invasion of DC. So it's kind of a tense time to begin with. The really exciting thing about this is we have the transcript, which no one else has. And I

0:06:08 Lydia: Nobody else, you guys.

0:06:10 Thomas: That's an important thing to say. So if you reason that you're listening to us is that it silly how much it costs to get these stupid transcripts. No offense to transcriptionists who apparently must have a good union or something or whatever they have the stranglehold over. I'm sure they they do great work, but we decided to get this transcript because nobody else was likely going to do that. It's entirely possible nobody else has done this. I

0:06:36 Matt: No reason to. He was acquitted. So there's not going to be an appeal. There is no reason a transcript ever would have been prepared unless some idiots asked for it. And here we are. That's us.

0:06:43 Lydia: Here

0:06:43 Thomas: And we're the idiots. Yeah and so I just wanted folks, if is like an investment that we've made to do this series, so if you feel so inclined to perhaps pledge at patreon.com/gavelpod to, you know, maybe reimburse a dollar that we've put. It's more than you would think. It was more than, it's a lot more than I thought as an average person that a transcript would cost. But I think it'll be worth it because I just can't wait to get every moment of the testimony of the sandwich, especially.

0:06:44 Lydia: Are the idiots, yeah. Yep. Oh, I cannot wait.

0:07:16 Matt: Read it, this is something we can actually cover gavel to gavel as promised, because it's a two -day trial with two witnesses. There's some interesting legal arguments even. We can talk about the use of 18 U.S.C. 111 and how that's been abused around the country and why the statute is kind of dangerous for the one he was charged with pertaining to anything that looks like an assault on a law enforcement officer. And I'm really happy we did this. And I do want a special shout out to Lorraine Herman, the transcriptionist who I was in touch with on this. Very sweet, very helpful. And She graciously began work on this just before Thanksgiving. And I think she probably had a little fun with it because, you know, she sat through this trial. I'm sure she remembered it. And it's not every day that you see a trial this silly in federal court.

0:07:52 Thomas: That mean? Does she get to make makeup? Some of what happened? What are you talking about? What does she, what does she go to work on it? Don't, okay. First legal question. I don't know if we should go after the commercial break yet, but they already transcribe it? What were they doing when they did their fancy three prong typewriter thing?

0:07:55 Matt: That's right. She can edit it.

0:08:07 Lydia: Three prong.

0:08:08 Thomas: Their weird thing they have. What's the additional work they do after that? Does that, they, they type it in Klingon and then they got to like translate it wait

0:08:16 Matt: I don't know specifically. They're usually, they're sitting there with that mask on, you know, where they're just kind of talking to the record so they can go back and type it up later if they need to.

0:08:25 Thomas: What's what the wait who uses the tiny three -legged uh the little you know the little typewriter that's got the weird keys man

0:08:31 Matt: The shorthand. Yeah. Uh, I don't know enough about court reporting, to be honest.

0:08:36 Thomas: Have you ever been to court oh

0:08:38 Matt: Of the courts I go to just have a digital record. Nobody's sitting there. You know, I DON'T go to courts that are important enough.

0:08:42 Thomas: That makes way more sense yeah

0:08:43 Matt: That would yeah and pretty soon I'm afraid these people are going to be out of a job because it's going to be very easy to generate transcripts um flawless transcripts I think but you know I'm happy to give them the money in the meantime um I guess give them your money more to the point yeah so but again this is a very entertaining trial I have read it we are pretty much as far as I know pretty much going to do every line of this trial because there's a lot of little fun moments in it. It's so short. Why not? It's only two days. We paid for it.

0:08:43 Thomas: Why not just do that yeah can't wait and it's gonna be the return of voice acting uh

0:09:15 Lydia: Yes. Yes. I

0:09:16 Matt: I can't wait. It's

0:09:17 Thomas: Be playing the sandwich which cannot wait. It's the role I was born to play. There's so much more to get into with the, with why and the how and of it all. And what, why don't we take our first break?

0:09:28 Lydia: Like you're a court reporter already. The who, the how, the what, the where, the why.

0:09:32 Thomas: Take a court reporters? Like,

0:09:34 Lydia: Think all reporters are interested in the facts. That's what I think.

0:09:38 Matt: We're journalists. Of course we are.

0:09:38 Thomas: The, the facts, man. Okay, sure.

0:09:44 Lydia: Gavel out.

0:09:45 Thomas: Lydia's done a drive -by on her recording. No. Okay. The break, and again, you can reimburse our transcription fees at patreon .com slash gavel pod, and we'll definitely make sure to have plenty of bonus extras for you on this little series. And we will obviously be continuing Lively Baldoni as we go as well. There's to talk about and catch up on that we never will, but we can die trying. Support the show, lose the ads and all that. After this break, we'll get more into the sandwich. We, Matt?

0:10:26 Matt: Nightlife in DC, I think, is where we were. So let's pick that up.

0:10:29 Thomas: A sandwich have a backstory I don't know about?

0:10:30 Matt: Yep. It is extremely relevant. Is the context that I think people should know. But we're going to talk about setting the stage here, the scene of the crime, sort of the timeline of the crime. We're going to watch the video of the crime because that exists.

0:10:45 Thomas: Another great reason that we're doing this one I can actually watch the video of the crime which is pretty it's it's pretty pretty rare that I'd be happy about that because usually we're talking about something horrible yeah but no we're just talking about a sandwich yeah

0:10:53 Lydia: It's usually very dark. Yeah. Oh,

0:10:57 Matt: Usually that means a conviction when there's a video of a crime, so so much here. Happened on 14th and U Street in D .C., which is a very well -known nightlife district, and there was a gay club nearby having Latin night. So that is the context for this. The other thing that people need to understand is that the National Guard entered D .K. on August 7th, and Trump had made noise about starting to take over DC police. I'm sure everybody remembers incident happens on August 10th in the nightlife district when federal troops have only been there for a couple of days and tensions are getting high because DC presidents don't want them there for the most part.

0:11:28 Thomas: In this year of the of 2025 that happened and the trial already is that normal is it just because we're no okay wow because

0:11:37 Lydia: Interesting.

0:11:31 Matt: Happened very quickly. Yep. No. This goes to show like this is, and we'll talk about the charges in a second, but yeah.

0:11:41 Thomas: Didn't they also fail famously we you know joke that they failed to indict a hand sandwich a ham sandwich a couple of times holy

0:11:48 Matt: Yep. No, we'll talk about that in just a second. That is, yeah.

0:11:49 Thomas: Crap okay sorry good prime

0:11:51 Matt: No, and the timeline really tells you a lot about how serious this case really is because it really all happened very quickly. Enter Sean Dunn. And so this is the defendant in this case. He's 37 years old, Air

0:12:03 Thomas: Sandwich throwing age he's still got I mean well he's a little later years of sandwich throwing like greatness you You know, he's he's still got it. He's still got some zip on that sandwich. Like you can you could sometimes you see a glimpse of the sandwich thrower he was at 24, you know, when he first came into the league.

0:12:13 Matt: Well, you know, yeah, sure. At some point, like you're in your 40s, you got to start coaching because it's over. But I know how that goes.

0:12:26 Thomas: Even the Dodgers pitcher and what's his name? Yeah, even Clayton Kershaw finally hung it up. The greatest sandwich thrower there maybe ever was. Except he's on the side of the fascists. So, fuck him.

0:12:35 Matt: We'll never know. Oh, wow. Did pretty well in the Air Force. Now, he was an international affairs specialist at the Department of Justice. That's what makes this century extra interesting to me, was he's a DOJ employee, a paralegal, essentially.

0:12:47 Thomas: I don't think I knew you that holy shit okay

0:12:48 Matt: One of the many interesting things about this. Was using his skills to investigate cybercrimes. I was looking at his GoFundMe here, which we can... Actually, there's probably no reason to give to his Go Fund Me at this point, but let me just check in on that.

0:12:57 Thomas: I know go fund me for buying your sandwich transcript dude

0:13:01 Matt: That's right. We should get a cut. Go Fund Me was called Help Support the Sandwich Guy, and he raised $28 ,126 ,000 out of $35 ,000. That's not too bad.

0:13:11 Lydia: Yeah. Give

0:13:11 Thomas: My god but for going through this trial I mean come on now I'm back to being sympathetic

0:13:16 Matt: He didn't have to pay most of his lawyers, as we'll talk about. He was investigating cybercrime and child exploitation and fraud. But he also, again, previously before DOJ, had served a couple of deployments as an Air Force comms tech and joined the Forest Service and was fighting forest fires in New Mexico. So he's had a pretty interesting career. He's been around. Around. Was out that night, and he saw CBP, Customs and Border Protection, out on the streets of D .C., which is a very unusual thing to see. And here we are out near the Gay Nightlife District, and they're standing right next to a club that was having Latin Night. And he puts things together that CBP might be there to enforce and pick up brown people, essentially. That was the state that you see him in in the video that we're going to watch. But before we watch that, let's just remember why federal troops are in D .C., and we're going to have to have Stephen Miller explain it to us.

0:13:18 Thomas: Good oh sure

0:14:07 Matt: I thought that was worth just playing very quickly because, again, this is the context. These aren't just regular cops. This is federal troops in the streets of D .c. because, well, I'll let him say it.

0:14:16 Clip: Secure the city of Washington for the people who live here, for all the American people and all who visit here. It's our capital city. It is more violent than Baghdad. It is more violence than parts of Ethiopia, parts of many of the most dangerous places in the world. It, it's really shocking if you actually look at the graph that has been shown comparing parts of some of the dangerous failed states in the world compared to D .C. D. C. is more violent and so he's going to do what's necessary to make sure our nation's capital is safe for all Americans. Thank you. Thank

0:14:27 Lydia: Me a break.

0:14:45 Matt: Don't even eat sandwiches in Ethiopia, so I'm sure it's even more dangerous here.

0:14:49 Thomas: Well it's hard here because we have the fully automatic sandwiches that you know they don't even other countries learned from this and they banned they had one sandwich massacre and they're like never again and we're like no we've got custom reloader sandwiches that

0:14:59 Lydia: Never again.

0:15:04 Matt: That's right. Mean the way we load our sandwiches up to begin with is, you know, it's obscene. A lot of ammo in there.

0:15:07 Lydia: They are dangerous, actually. Yeah. Could kill you.

0:15:11 Thomas: America's a real outlier in sandwich related deaths well

0:15:15 Matt: All right. So let's take a look at the actual crime. Is the next clip here. It is a very quick clip and

0:15:21 Thomas: Let's comment on this the the voldemort that we just saw um just think it's worth mentioning right around the time we're recording is when the vanity fair stuff happened and the the comment it's just out of a movie that I don't even know if anyone is creative enough to have written, which is Stephen Miller apparently telling the photographer, like, you know, you have a lot of discretion and the kindness you show to people or whatever he said. Just baffling. I don't know if he's purely trolling or if it had anything to do with whatever. And then the photographer is like, yeah, so do you, buddy. It's just so funny to hear this interview and just think of that. Like, yeah. He's going around telling other people like, hey, be kind.

0:15:55 Matt: So good. Fact that kind isn't as a vocabulary and that's who knew, who knew? So then, yeah, that is Stephen Miller. And then of course, we covered this on our way back in August when this was all happening. But of course at the beginning of the year, a different DOJ, led by a different president, announced that D .C. crime was at a 30 -year low and carjackings are down 53%. And then, of course, Big Balls, Edward Korostein, was carjacked and sandwiched.

0:16:22 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah someone sandwiched that guy yeah that

0:16:26 Matt: Here we go.

0:16:25 Lydia: Got a knuckle sandwiched him.

0:16:27 Matt: It's a verb. Yeah. So this is the context, is that Sean Dunn is out for a night and sees CBP standing near a club that, and I will note too, that intersection, section, there's actually a Latin American queer history museum right there on that block. So this seems pretty notable. So that is the state of mind he's in when this happens. This isn't just walking down the street and seeing a CPP officer and losing your mind and throwing a sandwich. We can see if you want to describe what you're looking at before we hit play yeah

0:16:27 Thomas: Guy got sandwiched wow oh well we see a guy in a pink shirt and some blurry officers of some kind that's all I got so far sorry I'm not much help as an eyewitness is mad. I'm going to be terrible at trial. Am I going to be good? I don't know. Maybe I'll be good. Yeah, I didn't see much. Just the pink shirt guy.

0:17:16 Thomas: Is pink shirt guy the guy? My God.

0:17:17 Matt: Is the guy that is Sean Dunn

0:17:18 Thomas: I love this guy already. So he seems to be doing it. Now I'm at three seconds. I am going to break this down frame by frame like Zapruder. He is doing some sort of a very sarcastic getting in the face of an officer in he seems to be mocking the officer with gusto, which I really respect. I I mean, this is a, this is like a Homer-esque like doing a, I can only see him from behind and I can't hear what he's saying, but the body gyrations he's doing while he's mocking the officer, they tell a story.

0:17:19 Matt: He's upset uh no

0:17:47 Thomas: Like he's, and he's bending his knees. He's got good form. Like he is. He's actually, yeah, yeah. Like he has just going after this guy right in his face, but it just seems to be doing mocking stuff. And he's in a pink, looks like probably a polo can't we might be a collar on that bad boy can't tell pink shirt and uh shorts uh that go you know tasteful there he's not wearing like the shorts that uh you know that we wore in the 90s that we thought were stylish that go all the way down past your knees he's wearing a nice stylish cut that lydia would love me wearing which is like yeah you know halfway down the thighs essentially a

0:17:55 Lydia: Protecting his back. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

0:18:26 Thomas: Little further down okay I'll keep going that's not him Whoa, Ethan. Okay.

0:18:33 Matt: Uh these sandwich artists don't mess around with wrapping up a sandwich I mean this is this is a tightly wrapped sandwich this

0:18:37 Thomas: Then he turns to start to go. Like had enough of making fun of this guy.

0:18:42 Lydia: Then psych.

0:18:42 Thomas: And then he sort of considers the sandwich first. But this all happens in a split second. And this is me. I'm making this up. But if I'm his inner monologue, I'm like, oof, man, I still have a lot of this sandwich left. Ah, that's a lot. Do I want to throw this in? It was going to be my leftover. You know, it wasn't that good, though. The sandwich was not as good as I thought it was going be. I'll just buy another sandwich. Okay. And then He just chucks it at him. Disappointed to see that the sandwich remained fully intact and hit just his, because it was wrapped up.

0:19:12 Lydia: It was wrapped.

0:19:12 Thomas: It was fully wrapped and it hit his chest. I was, I guess this whole time I was envisioning like a nice open face sandwich into an open face, you know, just like a meatball sub.

0:19:20 Lydia: Well, you have it like on like a roll, right? And then the bread like kind of comes apart and the lettuce flies into the air, you know, like I want that visualization.

0:19:28 Thomas: Yeah. They're having to draw a chalk outline of all the lettuce, you you know? And then he throws it. I'm going to get, I'm gonna make sure I get that again. Again, we got it now. This is my analysis that I provide is important. So he decides, he turns, throws the sandwich right at the guy. There's a chance. Hold on. There'S a chance upon further analysis.

0:19:34 Lydia: Lettuce splatter yeah

0:19:49 Thomas: I'M going to, I'M GOING to do, I' m going to cut down to slow -mo.

0:19:53 Thomas: He'S go - Okay. I, I - there's a chance that the sandwich, there's a chance, I'm going to review, that the sandwich, because of the weight of it relative to the wrapper, flies out above the officer's head and only the wrapper hits him.

0:19:48 Lydia: What

0:20:08 Thomas: Like, it kind of looks like something flies off of it. Hold on a sec. Or, if we've got a footlong, famously, could be, you know how they do the footlong and then they cut it in half, like, like in the wrapper, usually I it's possible that the debris I'm seeing the shrapnel that, that comes off of it could be the other, the other six inches that let's say, okay. Reviewing.

0:20:08 Lydia: Yeah the six and the six yeah wait he throws a footlong at him holy crap I didn't know it was a foot long

0:20:34 Matt: A big sandwich

0:20:32 Thomas: Yeah, I Okay. Hold on. Okay, we got in the moment of impact. I'm going to hold on, I'm gonna cut it down to 0 .25. Everybody, this is to really get, yeah. Oh, yeah, we gotta get the mother. Well now it's just a tool song so I don't know I think that was it I think that was the well he doesn't say motherfucker the other oh you mean there was that the famous utter utterer

0:20:35 Matt: Very

0:20:56 Lydia: Was that him saying motherfucker yeah I know I know the the amazing person that's filming it Yes. Yeah.

0:20:57 Matt: Industrial I've

0:21:07 Thomas: Of motherfucker let's see yeah that was it okay because I heard the note you know I would like to note that I can take this sound and digitally slow it down in a way that actually preserves the sounds better. This is just the YouTube shitty algorithm off the top of its head. So anyway, sound aside, because that's so annoying. I'm going to mute it as I go. 0 .25 here. All right. I got it. This is important. I think it is either part of the sandwich or the full thing, because he throws it. Oh, frame by frame. Yeah, it hits him. It hits his shoulder.

0:21:49 Thomas: Oh, okay. I'm pretty sure that's just the wrapper. Or that's a little bag that it's in because the sandwich flies over his shoulder. It hits his shoulder and flies over. Then what falls on the ground, you can see, is just like paper. I'm wondering if we're going to blow the lid off this whole thing. What sandwich never technically hit him and it was just a wrapper?

0:21:49 Matt: Got stills also.

0:22:06 Lydia: Interesting.

0:22:07 Matt: Sandwich truther.

0:22:14 Lydia: Freaking baby.

0:22:14 Matt: Sandwiches can't melt, still beams.

0:22:15 Lydia: Baby it's

0:22:15 Matt: It's well known. Sorry.

0:22:18 Thomas: The cheese can't melt. No, I don't know. Wait

0:22:22 Matt: Now, I will just point out that I did send you the complaint. You can look at page two with stills. And what's really funny about it is they could only get stills from this Instagram user. So it has the caption in the stills as part of the evidence.

0:22:32 Thomas: This very one that we're on oh that's fantastic so

0:22:36 Matt: Out Statement of for yourself. Of course, we're going to link to all this so everybody can play along at home. Very seriously describing the crime and then showing you the still photos.

0:22:45 Thomas: Oh wow here we go yeah and why don't you uh why don'T you read read some of this

0:22:53 Lydia: 11 06 p .m dunn approached v1 and threw a sandwich at him striking v1 in the chest victim one victim

0:23:01 Matt: Victim one. He's not a missile.

0:23:00 Thomas: What victim one big is was there other victims that got residual like sandwich mustard gas thing

0:23:08 Lydia: Unbelievable Unbelievable.

0:23:11 Matt: Mustard stains. Yeah. Should go up a paragraph and actually read what he said because it is relevant.

0:23:18 Thomas: That was so funny it cleared up my my illness thank you hold on well then you might as well just start let's just read the statement of facts

0:23:24 Lydia: Dunn stood within V1. Okay. I'll just start from the beginning. All right. I'm going to start from the beginning, folks. On August 10th, 2025, at approximately 11 p.m., Metro Transit Police police detective Dana Henry badge number D948 and members of United States Customs and border protection CBP were patrolling the area of 2001 14th street northwest in Washington, D.C. Detective henry observed an individual herein referenced as Sean Charles Dunn begin to shout at CBP agent Gregory herein referenced as V1, who was, at the time of the offense, an employee of the United States and acting in performance of his official duties.

0:23:35 Thomas: Sandwich time. And not a fan of Subway.

0:24:07 Lydia: Dunn stood within inches of V1 pointed his finger in V1's face and yelled, Fuck you, you fucking fascist. Why are you here? I don't want you in my city. Dunn continued his conduct for several minutes before crossing the street and continuing to yell obscenities at V1. At approximately 11 .06 p .m., Dunn approached V1 and a sandwich at him, striking V1 in the chest. An

0:24:19 Thomas: Amen. Wait a minute. He comes back for a second. Okay, we didn't see that. Okay. We don't get any language about his, like, it almost looked like he was doing a chicken dance out of Arrested Development or something. Like, the amount of expression he was doing, I was hoping we'd get some narrative about that. Darn. Okay.

0:24:46 Lydia: By an observer captured the incident. The video depicts Dunn screaming at V2 within inches of his face for several seconds before winding his arm back and forcefully throwing a sub-style sandwich at V1.

0:24:59 Thomas: How was his form? Was it good? Didn't comment on that.

0:25:02 Matt: And Instagram screen capture too is just very funny that that's the best evidence they have.

0:25:06 Lydia: Gets sub-thrown at him down U Street.

0:25:08 Thomas: Yeah, are they required to include that? Like, is that, would it be evidence tampering if they, like, didn't, if they cropped out the thing?

0:25:15 Matt: They took out the caption. Yeah, no,

0:25:16 Thomas: Yeah, like probably not, right? Why would they have to?

0:25:18 Matt: It's going into the record.

0:25:19 Thomas: That's funny. Okay.

0:25:20 Matt: It's the only thing they have, and then there is on the next page just a quick follow -up to finish up.

0:25:25 Lydia: Attempted to flee on foot but was apprehended. While being processed at Metropolitan Police Department's 3rd District, Dunn told mtp officer oh tandi I did it I threw a sandwich confession wow

0:25:39 Matt: Signed his death warrant right there.

0:25:43 Thomas: We need the serial music to go up at that. I did. I threw the sandwich. And then, then we can go into my analysis about how, but the sandwich may have never even hit the officer after all. It all depends on the Nisha call or something. I don't know. Uh, Oh, did it. I through a sandwich.

0:25:46 Lydia: Amazing

0:25:46 Matt: That's right. Yeah totally, totally.

0:26:06 Thomas: Oh

0:26:06 Matt: Talk about what happened. Oh, you can watch the rest of it actually before we talked about.

0:26:09 Thomas: Oh, there is more.

0:26:10 Matt: More. A few more seconds.

0:26:11 Thomas: So, I you are right. I should put it back to full speed before consuming the whole thing.

0:26:12 Lydia: So some more motherfuckers yes please dear god

0:26:18 Thomas: And I am going to go all the way back because I want to hear that guy again. He had some things to say. Want people to review this themselves and tell me that the sandwich does over the officer and the wrapper hits him. Nobody is talking about this. Can see the sandwich. Hold on. There are more victims. There are my victims. I can actually finally tracked the actual sandwich because looking on the ground thinking the sandwich was going to fall behind him on the grounds. But no, what I didn't account for was the velocity, the exit velocity of the sandwich, the exit philosophy of that sandwich is a lot higher than I would have thought because it's like it has the actual bulk of the momentum because

0:26:16 Matt: Yes, please. My

0:27:05 Thomas: It's actually what received the kinetic energy of this man's hand, this amazing sandwich thrower's hand arm. So it goes behind him. It goes behind the officer and actually hits possibly that wall. And then another guy, I found it. Hold on a sec. Let's see.

0:27:21 Matt: Ooh, a second victim.

0:27:24 Thomas: Yeah. And that guy also looks to be an officer. The really tall one in the back. If you're looking, I think, gosh, it's so fast. All right. We'll have to, you know okay runs away fucking guy

0:27:22 Lydia: Victim two what

0:27:38 Matt: Very quickly.

0:27:45 Lydia: Are they saying

0:28:00 Thomas: Gentleman I hope it's okay I say fit gentleman like I'm not saying like ripped but like yeah sean dunn is is athletic he's got he's filling those little shorts yeah like he's he's and he takes off running in in decent form. I don't even think he's going 100%, to be honest with you. I think he is worried that if he runs 100%, then he is committing a real crime. He sort of jogs off. Well, first off, he almost gets hit by a car. There is a car that comes right behind him as he throws it, like it was almost like a... If that had been his getaway vehicle, imagine the sandwich heist of a century nay of two centuries that would

0:28:05 Lydia: Dunn yeah athletic oh okay yeah yeah he's got the glutes oh Oh,

0:28:45 Thomas: Have been incredible um then he just sort of he's trotting he's not really he's running like he's gonna run a longer race like maybe he's in it for the long haul that could he'd be pacing it could be that because he's not sprinting so I think that's also important evidence that we should consider okay is there anything else I need to take in from this I think I've gotten all the the facts do

0:29:02 Lydia: He's pacing himself?

0:29:12 Matt: That's the crime. We have now seen the basis for these charges. We should talk about how this all went down.

0:29:17 Thomas: Know the charges yet because

0:29:18 Matt: So that's on the complaint that I sent you there that we were just looking at. That was a statement of facts attached to the complaint, the first page.

0:29:22 Thomas: So I guess I didn't remember then and I wanted to ask was he also charged for the running part that's almost if anything the part that I would have thought would be like sometimes they get like you know when cops are doing a dirty cop bullshit it's usually like well I'm arresting you for resisting and that's it that's the only charge and it's like well resisting what like sounds like there was no nothing happened

0:29:47 Lydia: What's cited here in the complaint, it's 18 U .S .C. 111A1, assaulting, resisting, or impeding certain and employees of the United States. So maybe it's like kind of encapsulated in that?

0:29:56 Thomas: For the sauce that goes on the sandwich okay maybe well yeah

0:30:05 Matt: They're going with forcible assaults, that's what they're going to be talking about.

0:30:09 Thomas: The resist part isn't a key part of it

0:30:11 Matt: I think that might come up at the trial. Talk about 18 U.S.C. 111 another time, because I have a lot of concerns about this as a statute. But let's talk about what happened that night. He's taken in, he's processed, he'S released. The complaint that I just sent you there with that statement of facts, they say they're going to be charging him with 111, and they leave it at that. Fine, that's all pretty normal. And then the White House posts one of the most fascistic things I've ever seen, especially when you now know the context. Text. Let's pull up the next video I sent you here of they went back to re -arrest Sean Dunn. You will not believe what you're about to see.

0:30:41 Thomas: I forgot about this this is incredible holy shit

0:30:44 Matt: It's really bad. We're linking to all this. You can all play along at home.

0:30:47 Thomas: I'm glad, I'm glad we're covering this. Oh my god. Oh, I thought I hit unmute. Uh, you know, the platforms need to make up their fucking minds if they're all gonna be unmuted. Half of them are unmuted by default. Half them are muted. I hit play. I think it's gonna be me. It blows my ears out. Then I hit playthrough and it'll play and it's muted. God damn it. Okay, here we go. Ah!

0:31:08 Thomas: That still blew our ears out! Oh, that's their stupid... Oh my God. That's them doing their Christopher Nolan Nolan fucking whomp sound effects like it's Inception or whatever.

0:31:07 Lydia: My God. That oh my god that's insane yeah

0:31:14 Matt: Soundtrack. Yep. Yep, and you have to describe what you are seeing. It is obscene, right?

0:31:24 Thomas: It was a lot at once. So we got, yeah, we've got like several different cuts. Somebody put some editing into this. They put a location, West End, D .C., 1109 p .m. And I like it too because they pair this action sounds with some people with FBI on their back standing there in jeans and it's like wow that's that's a total action movie right there okay so now U.S. marshals oh my god you've got to be fuckIng kidding me with this this is actually crazy so

0:31:50 Lydia: This is crazy just

0:31:58 Matt: Remember he had been released a few days before and they come back for him with this crew yep

0:32:02 Lydia: To get the content like that's why they did this

0:32:04 Matt: He had not violated the conditions of his release they had no reason to come back he was going to come to court yep I

0:32:08 Lydia: My God unbelievable

0:32:10 Thomas: And so the police it says police U.S. marshals people in tactical gear in a hallway 11 30 13 p .m they've guns drawn this is a farce why would you the that anyone would take part in this you know I'd like to think as much as I'm anti-police and everything I'd Like to think there's still some people with dignity but apparently not nobody in this shot nobody

0:32:19 Clip: Jeanine

0:32:37 Lydia: Like the most pathetic thing I've ever seen in my life like

0:32:41 Matt: Imagine like just like come on boys you've all seen that video let's go get this guy I mean come on

0:32:46 Thomas: Silly they

0:32:46 Lydia: Like he's a dangerous terrorist what in the world are you doing yeah

0:32:52 Thomas: Don't think they think he's dangerous per se. I think, I think it's like, if I'm trying to get into the fascist mindset of basically run of the mill conservatism, um, shouldn't be allowed to at all question or threaten or do anything against law enforcement ever. And if you do, they want the harshest possible consequences. So it's not so much that they're like trying to make like this guy's dangerous they're trying to scare us and say you this will happen to you and it's this let like that's how eager they are to punish you for this and that there's no and that's and it'S also trying to show like the numbers is like we this is the amount the resources and the manpower that will go after anyone who questions us or challenges us in any way mm

0:33:40 Matt: Then we're going to do this Jerry Bruckheimer trailer to show your arrest.

0:33:44 Lydia: I just feel like it's it's so pathetic because if anyone knew who this guy was that they were taking away I would be like wow you guys like are really insecure and you like don't feel confident being able to carry out your duties at all like like you look like freaking babies right Having to put on bulletproof vests and

0:34:01 Thomas: Mm-hmm those are sandwich bruce fest they're loaded with napkins so there's like there's also like a wet wipe uh holster that yeah tight pants yeah that's good

0:34:06 Lydia: Your helmets. Yeah, exactly. They have Tide pens in their holsters. It's just so stupid. They're going to go knock down his door and stuff.

0:34:23 Thomas: Everyone's got the like typical napkin down their neck like thing like Like, all ready to arrest him.

0:34:31 Lydia: My God. Yeah. Anyway, this is just so pathetic. Like, just like they're playing police or something. It's so stupid.

0:34:33 Thomas: It very much is. Yep. Yep. Oh, we still got a few seconds here. Okay, so he's just standing there. They're walking him out. They're cuffing him, like, again or something? Or they're showing it again? Why do they keep showing the time? 11 .21. Are they trying to tell us, like... Here's how... Yeah, okay. So it took him 12 minutes to get up the building, arrest a guy in jeans and a shirt, And put him in a car and it says, The White House, President Donald J. Trump.

0:34:54 Lydia: Efficient? God, it's so dumb.

0:35:08 Thomas: Is just so stupid, That is SO fucking stupid.

0:35:10 Matt: So fascist. Also, it's a message from the White House.

0:35:13 Lydia: Part of this, I mean, again, like you were saying, if there's anyone left that has any dignity at all. If you saw this, like, I would quit. Like, I mean, a bunch of other things would have made me quit before, but this by itself, I'd be like, this is fucking dumb. I'm not going to be affiliated with this anymore. I don't want to work for this anymore, even if this was the only thing that existed in Trump 2 .0. Just this video alone, I feel like this is so stupid. Stupid.

0:35:24 Thomas: Would hope. Yeah, it is absolutely pathetic. Yeah,

0:35:40 Matt: Right on. Sent you the Pam Bondi tweet, the ex -post from the next day after he was arrested, just so we can get the full picture here.

0:35:48 Lydia: Got him. Yeah. Bondi posts. If you touch any law enforcement officer, we will come after you. I just learned that this defendant worked at the Department of Justice no longer. Not only is he fired, he has been charged with a felony. This is an example of the deep state we've been up against for seven months as we work to refocus DOJ. You will not work in this administration while disrespecting our government and law enforcement.

0:36:14 Matt: Yep. There you go.

0:36:15 Lydia: Okay, ma'am.

0:36:16 Matt: Loses his job. I do have to argue there with Pam Bondi. He was not charged with felony. They filed felony charges. I think she really thought that was going to stick. Did not. 18 U.S.C. 111 has a felony option. If on the force of the assault and depending how they want to charge it, it can carry up to eight years on the felony. It can carry to 20 if you actually injure somebody, which of course didn't. No, but they're not even trying to say that happened here.

0:36:24 Thomas: Look how spicy the sandwich is. If any fish in it it does carry an extra charge yeah incredible

0:36:42 Matt: The dry cleaning. Yeah. The grand jury refused to indict. We don't have that because they didn't indict it on the 27th of August. Embarrassing for DOJ. And decided then to just proceed by information, which they can do in minor federal misdemeanors.

0:36:56 Thomas: What is what does that mean what

0:36:57 Matt: That's when you just file the charges and then, you Yeah, If crimes that are in misdemenas that carry less than a possibility of a year, they can just proceed by information.

0:37:00 Lydia: An indictment? Okay.

0:37:00 Thomas: You just do that okay you gotta explain that a little more so there's a requirement and I know it's always weird with dc but like there's do you have to do a grand jury all the time or some some of the time or what? How's that work?

0:37:18 Matt: Really depends on the jurisdiction. So there's a lot of different answers to that. But generally speaking, to get a felony charge, you have to go through a grand jury everywhere. Get a regular criminal complaint, just stand up for a misdemeanor. And what we were reading from was the complaint where they're just proceeding and they're saying, this is what we're going to charge them. We haven't decided how we're going to judge them yet when can bypass the grand jury indictment and just proceed directly to prosecution on information for anything that doesn't carry a year or

0:37:41 Thomas: Explain the grand jury is the thing where you're grabbing, you some rando people and it's not like a trial where there's two sides. It's just the one side, right? So the reason that they say you can indict a ham sandwich is it's just a state, right. They just get to say all their stuff and get to try And you're only trying to convince these citizens that charge someone, right?

0:38:05 Lydia: Enough there, there.

0:38:06 Matt: Presumably they showed them this video that we just watched and said, hey, this guy assaulted a federal officer. Here's the assault charge. Please indict. And they didn't. That's what happened.

0:38:16 Thomas: It's fantastic. It's amazing. They're as much heroes as the sandwich thrower himself.

0:38:19 Lydia: For them. The sandwich. Oh, I thought you were going to say it's the sandwich?

0:38:23 Thomas: The sandwich is just a tool, Lydia.

0:38:23 Matt: The sandwich was not.

0:38:26 Thomas: A sandwich in the hands of a revolutionary. A sandwich and the hand over the policeman could go the other way. You know it's just a tool but

0:38:25 Lydia: I don't know. The sandwich gave its life. The Yeah, it's true. Yeah.

0:38:35 Matt: So they did go forward with the misdemeanor charge, and that is what this trial is going to to be about on

0:38:40 Thomas: You can just go for you just say well we disagree so you're saying is as long as it's not if it's a minor thing they're able to say like I like I imagine you don't have to get a grand jury for like a traffic infraction or something so it's like I imagine it's that sort of rule where it's like okay this is a low enough thing that we're not going to bother in paneling a grand jury okay

0:39:01 Matt: Probable cause, basically, that a magistrate will take a look and say, okay, that looks like enough to proceed.

0:39:05 Thomas: That meant though the most they could get him for was got to be way less than they even thought right like initially what what were they hoping like what kind of time or whatever could he have been doing for the first thing they were trying to get okay

0:39:18 Matt: The felony carries up to eight years and up to 20 years if there's injury, but that didn't happen. So now they're stuck with the misdemeanor that's not more than one year. And realistically, I don't think he was going to get time on this anyway, but who knows? I mean, I'm thinking with Massachusetts choose its roles here, but is the setup. There's a little bit more I want to talk about here with the characters and the things we're going to be seeing here. Let me give you some background on the people involved. Are only going to быть two witnesses at trial, so obviously the defendant is not going to testify, although I think this is one case where maybe he could have, because are

0:39:29 Thomas: It's know this is his first sandwich god tell me we got the sandwich artist please tell us please tell them we got this sandwich artist and how tightly did did you pack that lettuce?

0:39:54 Matt: Going to play the body cam footage at trial.

0:39:56 Thomas: Cucumbers of the sandwich artist? Oh, darn. There cucumbers in that? They're trying to get like what could be like harder shrapnel. I'm trying to think what's the most damaging, you know?

0:40:04 Matt: The hot peppers, I mean, those get in your eyes. So Dunn's

0:40:05 Lydia: Pepperoncini um

0:40:07 Thomas: There's a rumor that there's extra hot peppers. Can you confirm that? No, I don't. I try to testify to pattern and practice. Would you have packed, you know that many peppers into a footlong okay

0:40:21 Matt: Voice will be heard at trial because they're going to play the body cam footage of him with his dramatic confession of I threw a sandwich. Will come out. But the only two witnesses are going to be V1, aka CBP officer Larimore.

0:40:28 Thomas: Hero gonna hear from the asshole who got this in oh I love it I

0:40:37 Lydia: Victim the

0:40:38 Matt: Best part of the trial. Honestly, saw the summary of this testimony, that was when I told you we've got to order this transcript because it is that good. We're going to have the same sandwich, the Dunn Memorial sandwich.

0:40:39 Thomas: Hope he cries I hope it breaks down crying that's what I hope don't spoil it for me a sandwich that's why I told you get subway on the phone yeah the

0:40:54 Lydia: Interesting

0:40:54 Matt: Larimore is incredibly overqualified to be standing on the street of D .C. on a Saturday night. He should be doing other things. Is a division chief with a strategic planning analysis directorate, and he leads information enforcement systems, basically tracking that allow agents to see each other and communicate. He's managing, basically, major communications within CBP.

0:41:16 Thomas: Being they're just throwing everybody out there to

0:41:19 Matt: Yeah. Has never been to D. C. before. He he's never been to U Street before. He doesn't know what's going on. He's just walking out and patrolling.

0:41:24 Thomas: Great that's probably good yeah

0:41:19 Lydia: Before his life was changed forever

0:41:27 Thomas: Not anymore he's not oh

0:41:31 Matt: Other witness will be DC police detective Dana Henry, who I'm sure has other things to do as well. She's going to provide her perspective on the crime and the evidence at hand. So those are the only people we're going to hear from at the trial. There are going to be some interesting issues. Lawyers themselves, I will say, I just want to give you a quick preview of what's going on here. But before we do that, I should actually play Janine Pirro's reaction when the grand jury failed to indict him. Forgot we have to get that in.

0:41:53 Matt: She was U.S. attorney at the time, of course, somehow

0:41:56 Thomas: I you know what's so funny is I was like oh yeah just the random tv hosts no not even joking like I thought we're just going to a clip of a fuck no this is a person yeah like no this this is

0:42:06 Lydia: Of her on Fox News. No, no. This is her in her official capacity.

0:42:09 Matt: She had just been confirmed.

0:42:11 Clip: The U .S. attorney for D .C., Jeaninepirro, after a grand jury declined to indict former DOJ employee Sean Dunn for throwing a sandwich at federal officers earlier this month. While speaking on Fox News, Pirro put the blame on D .C. residents for being so used to crime. There are a lot of people who sit on juries and they live in, you know, they live in Georgetown or in Northwest or in some of these better areas, and they don't see the reality of crime that is occurring. And my office has been instructed to move for the highest crime possible possible consistent with the law, the statute, and the evidence. And in that one case, in that particular article, we were on point. But the grand jurors don't take it so seriously. They're like, you know, whatever. And my job is to try to turn that around and

0:42:31 Thomas: Article christ

0:43:04 Clip: To continue to give the support that my prosecutors need. In that case, we took it as a misdemeanor and we'll go forward with it. The fact that they're so used to crime, that crime is so normalized in D .C., that they don't even care about whether or not the law is violated, is the very essence of what my problem is in D.C.

0:43:17 Lydia: Crazy.

0:43:25 Thomas: My God first

0:43:25 Lydia: A crazy way to spin that. Jeez.

0:43:27 Thomas: Off though, Matt, can we just take a moment to try to just, me minds back into a normal time and imagine the federal u .S. attorney not getting the indictment they want and then coming and like bad mouthing the grand jury has that ever happened well we're we know where we are but I I really want matt just give me context like this is an outrage right like this ist something something that is completely unprofessional, completely like unacceptable in the legal profession previously, especially again, this is the government, the government's lawyer, right?

0:43:44 Matt: They're too used to crime. No, I've never heard of anything like this for a prosecutor, like actually blaming them.

0:44:01 Matt: Yeah. Yeah that's why I wanted to play it because the standard reaction to press conference or to the to the media and something like this when the prosecutor's commenting on something like, this would be, well, we have to respect the grand jury's decision and we'll leave it at that, right? We move on. Or maybe we try to get them on the misdemeanor, but we have to respect what they did. And I mean, obviously this is essentially grand jury nullification, right? They saw it. They didn't think it was worth an eight -year felony and they declined to indict, even though they saw the same video that you just did.

0:44:28 Thomas: Incredible.

0:44:29 Matt: Not because they love crime.

0:44:30 Thomas: Just so disgusting. Like, you know, we're not super romantic about the institutions, but holy shit, it's better to have them than to have not them. And going to forget what it used to be like to have real people doing real stuff in these positions. This is fake. This is not real.

0:44:45 Lydia: Who

0:44:45 Matt: That's a very good point because we've got former Fox News and beauty queens now running these US attorney's offices apparently. So this is what we got.

0:44:53 Thomas: Just this is just ridiculous.

0:44:54 Lydia: Was in that role under Biden?

0:44:57 Matt: See, that's the point. You never heard of him because he just did his job whoever it was uh maybe I should assume a man let's see yeah I feel name was matthew m graves and uh I presume he was great because I never heard of him probably just did his job uh also prosecuted quite a few of the january 6 cases obviously that ended up being dropped so I mean he was pretty much in office for that whole thing so I'm sure that was a lot of work and then you get to watch it'll be all undone by that is the reaction when they couldn't indict, they proceeded on information.

0:45:02 Thomas: Nelson Mandela. No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, there you go. That's a bummer.

0:45:37 Matt: Just talk for a moment about the attorneys and then we're pretty much done today. Credit, we're going to be seeing these attorneys in the transcript, you'll be hearing their voices. I'm that's right. That's right, yes.

0:45:43 Lydia: You'll be hearing a version of their voices. You'll be be hearing us.

0:45:46 Matt: You'll never know the difference, the acting will be so good. Gatto sabrina schroff and nicholas silverman opted to represent dunn pro bono they took on the case which I appreciate um that's right just buy me a sandwich uh is a federal public defender in her 14 years um know she's been around the system uh silverman is a white collar crime defender. Shroff represented, among other people, Billy McFarland from the Fyre Festival, if you remember that debacle.

0:45:54 Thomas: Heroes. Got to take me to lunch, but I'm yeah. My God. That's so funny. Place where there famously weren't enough sandwiches covers all sides of the sandwich spectrum.

0:46:16 Matt: For on the other side of the case, we have Michael DiLorenzo and John Perrin prosecuting. I'm sure that this was not their finest moment, especially because DiLorenzo was the deputy chief of national security, and a 22 -year veteran of the D.C. District Attorney's Office. Prosecuted the mastermind of the Benghazi attack. Was only handling very serious transnational crime. Yeah, that's right. We got her. So just for his perspective on what this guy should be doing. Perrin, who's paired up with him on this, John Perrin has been practicing for eight years and joined during the Biden administration. So presumably this is not what he wanted to be doing either. I found his quote from Penn Law. He's a graduate from Penn, and graduated in 2017. This is his graduation quote, or excuse me, it's an interview quote. One of the more stimulating aspects of my summer internship was going to court and watching a variety of different proceedings. Sometimes in the classroom, I worry that I have a tendency to get detached from the practical reality of what the criminal justice system does. The importance of humanity in the whole process is something that will continue to stay with me long after my internship has ended. Defended.

0:46:38 Thomas: Hillary Clinton. Sure.

0:47:21 Lydia: Very

0:47:21 Matt: Comment. See how it goes. But this is going to be such an interesting trial because the defense is conceding immediately that he threw the sandwich. No question he threw the sandwich?

0:47:29 Thomas: That is really interesting. Like I, I, part of me wonders and we'll get into it, but part of of me wonders, like, I know sometimes it's like, well, then can't the judge just be like guilty? Because you can't even argue, you know, like a key fact of the thing is that. So I don't know if maybe we save more of that legal talk for the actual trial coverage. But, you like saying I did it, but still, still, let's have a trial. I didn't even know you could do that.

0:47:56 Matt: Sure, it happens. It happens. And usually in this kind of a case, the defense would be presenting the defendant to explain himself about whatever mitigating circumstances there were, but he's not going to do that here. They are just going to proceed with essentially jury nullification. They're going to say, yeah, he threw The Sandwich, but what are are we doing here, folks? That's pretty much going to be the trial, and it's going to work, not to spoil anything, but that's where we're heading.

0:48:13 Thomas: That's amazing.

0:48:17 Matt: Also forgot to mention, just before we conclude here, that this offense occurred within the first week of National Sandwich Month, so excellent timing.

0:48:26 Thomas: It's also Also, in another part of the context, it's so funny. I don't know if people can remember back to this time where Trump was trying to distract from the Epstein files.

0:48:34 Matt: Yes, that's right.

0:48:36 Thomas: I know it's weird to think about now. Memory lane, you know, like, gosh, there's the dress. Those are the two different colors. And then also there's Trump was try to distract him from the epstein files, just like a perpetual story. I love that that story is the one thing in Trump adjusted terms. Trump adjusted America that has lasted like the news cycle. It's crazy. I know it's not the topic of this show, but that is actually, a possible reason why something this absurd, you know, it's kind of overexplained, I guess, by the fascism. But but I do think that there's a real chance they wanted to make the stupid spectacle of the video and everything to, knowing that it's kind of dumb, but it might distract from this even worse thing for them going on with the Epstein stuff.

0:48:45 Lydia: Man. It's actually kind of stuck.

0:49:25 Matt: Timing too, I just wanted to point out that this happens on the 10th, the sandwich incident, and then Trump ordered the The DC National Guard in the next day on the 11th declared an emergency and fully ordered them in. So I don't know.

0:49:34 Lydia: That was the last straw for him, yeah?

0:49:36 Matt: Maybe a coincidence. Maybe not.

0:49:38 Thomas: Well, we've set up a lot here, Matt. I'm so excited for one. I'm excited to have you back on Gigi. It's good to see you. You'll have to, again, choose your, choose your gavel pronouns, uh, choose, choose your gaivel and, uh. Choose it wisely. And, uh... It's going to be exciting and fun to go through this, get back to doing readings, doing, doing some acting, Lydia and I, you know. Can't wait.

0:49:43 Matt: Yeah. What a pleasure. Had so much fun with the Trump trial. That was really some of the best and most fun podcasting I think I've ever done. So I'm very excited to do this one.

0:50:04 Thomas: Going to do some acting. It's gonna be so much fun. Well, thanks. Thanks for listening, everybody. And again, please support not only our Sandrich budget, but our trial transcript budget over at patreon.com/gavelpod. and uh we'll try to make sure uh matt if you think of any bonus extras for this uh for this trial let me know that we can do for patrons

0:50:23 Matt: I'm sure they'll come up with themselves. There's so much great stuff here. Extra toppings. That's right.

0:50:27 Lydia: Before we sign off, what's everyone's sandwich order?

0:50:30 Thomas: Quit subway I can't do it anymore since I don't eat meat there's not much else there

0:50:35 Lydia: Sandwiches? Yeah, they're less exciting now as a vegetarian, for sure. Because we're all vegetarian, too. Yeah. That's funny.

0:50:35 Thomas: Yeah are you met the chairman for some reason I thought you were like well I thought he said he was he like was and then wasn't or something I'm sorry I'm I misremembered oh

0:50:44 Lydia: Do you keep forgetting?

0:50:48 Matt: I eat fish, but pescetarian.

0:50:51 Lydia: Pescatarian, yeah. That looks like me.

0:50:52 Thomas: I used to enjoy with the meat you know but nowadays it's like they just the way they try to like actually pack in mass like bulk they can't just put in like you know uh newspaper clippings or anything like that but it's just the lettuce is just nothing like it's wet wet slightly crunchy crunchy, nothing. It's just, I can't, I can't do Subway anymore. So I got, I got nothing for my order. Sorry, hon.

0:51:18 Thomas: What's, what's your order? Order is pass. Well, wait, are we throwing it or eating it?

0:51:20 Lydia: On the place. I'm eating it because I'm hungry.

0:51:25 Thomas: Because if we're throwing it, I'm going to, since I don't order, what do we order when we really want to pack the most punch, is what I'm wondering. Meatball sub.

0:51:27 Lydia: Yeah, throwing it is different. Meatball, yeah, because you want the weight, right?

0:51:35 Thomas: I'm a mess.

0:51:36 Lydia: God, meatball subs. That used to be like my favorite thing. And it's messy. That is so true. So true. The sauce gets everywhere.

0:51:42 Thomas: You look for the officer with the cleanest white shirt.

0:51:44 Lydia: Perfect.

0:51:45 Matt: I want a splash, though, a tuna salad. That's going to make a big mess, and it's going to smell bad.

0:51:48 Lydia: And stink it up.

0:51:49 Thomas: Interesting.

0:51:49 Matt: Yeah. Yeah, so you've got to contend.

0:51:50 Lydia: Egg salad too.

0:51:52 Thomas: Oh my God. Now we're doing chemical warfare.

0:51:54 Lydia: Dang.

0:51:56 Matt: Yeah, I think that's better. Gun to my head, that's murder, I guess, is either tuna salad, or they do have this veggie patty thing they put in that's meatish, but whatever. I'm with you, though. I think it's actually in decline right now. They're not doing well.

0:52:08 Thomas: You know, they could have, if they weren't cowards, if every corporation weren't cowards they could've leaned into this.

0:52:14 Lydia: Yeah. It would have distanced them from Jared.

0:52:14 Matt: Already had a pedophile representing them in public, right? Exactly.

0:52:17 Thomas: I know.

0:52:18 Lydia: Like they really could have like like stepped into this as their new marketing.

0:52:21 Thomas: Man.

0:52:22 Matt: People like Sean Dunn a lot more than they like Jared.

0:52:24 Thomas: I know, but you know what? Corporations like fascism a lot more than they like heroes.

0:52:28 Lydia: Like, That's true.

0:52:29 Thomas: So there we go.

0:52:28 Matt: That's true. It's true, all right. Adios, caballeros.

0:52:53 Thomas: I guess this whole time I was envisioning like a nice open face sandwich into an open face, you now it's just a tool song so