We knew the Epstein plea deal was awful. Newly released emails make it EVEN WORSE.

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:09 Thomas: And welcome to opening arguments it is wednesday wild card wednesday everybody uh and what a wild card it is I guess it's um you files release day I don't know something starts with a w that goes whatever. Anyway, it's also Merry Christmas.

0:00:25 Lydia: Weirdo. Yeah.

0:00:26 Thomas: Here's a bunch of Epstein files, everybody. I'm Thomas. That over there, of course, is real life immigration attorney, Matt Cameron. How you doing, Matt?

0:00:34 Matt: I'm very happy to be joining you for the darkest Christmas special ever recorded. I think pretty much. Bad timing, but here we are, Christmas Eve.

0:00:40 Thomas: A very Epstein Christmas. Yeah.

0:00:43 Matt: Indeed, indeed, as we have to call it.

0:00:45 Thomas: And of course Lydia Smith, how you doing?

0:00:47 Lydia: I'm here, happy to be with you guys. Not happy to keep talking about this, but it's obviously really important, so I'm glad that we are, ultimately.

0:00:54 Thomas: Yeah. I'm not, I'm just happy. Fine. I'll say it. I's not like this is Because of the political things that we have to be discussing, this is like, you'd root for this because this means things are happening. Maybe people are going to be upset at Trump. But anyway, we got file dumps. They're weird. They'RE redacted. At first, it seemed like everything was redactED and it was just black pieces of paper. And then it wasn't. And then some of it was badly redacted and then some of it is fake, some of its not. We got so much to dig through. I'm hoping, Matt, that you'll be able to, at the very least, just give us like the actual facts. Like I think that the misinformation is so bad these days that even for the folks who listen to us, and I include myself in this as

0:01:00 Lydia: Merry Christmas to me! True that's fair yeah

0:01:43 Thomas: A listener to you, even if we just tell people like, yes, this one is real that you've seen, this One isn't real. You know, even that is like a service a service nowadays because so few people actually check and uh we're happy to be the folks who actually check for some folks

0:01:59 Matt: Yeah, well, Department of Justice released 30 ,000 pages this morning, and I have read all of them, of course, so fully prepared to fully briefed. No, I'm doing my best.

0:02:03 Thomas: Well it's not hard because there's only like one word per page so

0:02:08 Matt: Lots of black bars uh no I this actually this this morning's release was a lot more substantial which is why I'm going to try to do my best to get through as much as I can I just started looking at it you know this morning I already had some time blocked out uh you know we're getting into the holidays here but uh you Know this is a first draft this is our first time around we're going to highlight some of the stuff I found some of this stuff has I've not seen in the media yet some some of it the media started to catch it's been kind of fun because all day everybody's working from the same pages we're just trying to figure it out and you know no no advantages except for the fact that there's teams of researchers at CBS and there's just me and Olivia otherwise, but you know, we're doing what we can.

0:02:40 Thomas: Yeah we uh that is important to note there's literally stuff dropping like as we're recording this we kind of waited as long as we could but uh so there's inevitably going to be some sort of breaking whatever but we've tried to keep pretty up to the minute in terms of are now. So we'll see. So I'm looking forward to that. I guess we'd better take our break and we better thank our patrons. Thank you so much, patrons. Hey, it's Christmas and you got us the best gift of all, financial support.

0:03:09 Thomas: We don't need socks. We need support these days. patreon.com/seriouspod and thanks to the amazing folks who are doing that we're going to thank our hall of famers these are the folks at the five dollar level and above for at least a month and uh we love them the most if you're if we're putting a number to it thank you to matthew cutler autistic twitch streamer then

0:03:05 Lydia: Thank you a buck yeah oh yeah

0:03:38 Thomas: Anari for america 2028 one man one vote alec unremarkable amina oh get well soon amina uh just a friend of ours giving a shout out without trying to reveal anything but get well sooner donna treadway mother of heritans protect trans kids deep space nine was the best star trek Mike Lapinsky ma is as selfless as I am did we have that oh so are they growing it didn't we have a different we had like a paw is yeah ma is is as selfless as... Does that actually... Oh, maybe... Wait. Hold on. Ma is... Oh.

0:04:03 Matt: That's pretty solid. Yeah, there was a Paul one. Yeah!

0:04:14 Thomas: Did we get the referee? The palindrome referee is selfless. Wow. I think that does work.

0:04:13 Lydia: You have to like like, oh my

0:04:20 Thomas: Well, that's a cool one. I like that one. Well done. That's palindrom of the week so far.

0:04:20 Matt: It's a good one.

0:04:26 Thomas: Cyanitis, normalized bidirectional spooning, a constant favorite. Fourth Circuit attorney reluctantly changing her font. Charlie Kelly, attorney at Byrd Law. Apprentice of Adventure, probably a real person. Nick Fish, Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer, and Project Elandrome's Spembrace Unirisms. I don't know what's happening there, but I thought it was like, I thought it was going to be a palindrome in a weird way, but it's not quite.

0:04:47 Matt: That was pretty good. That is pretty good, but it's a Spinnerism. Oh, wow.

0:04:56 Thomas: I might've just had a stroke or that's funny for reasons I don'T even understand. Could be.

0:04:56 Lydia: It's so funny.

0:05:04 Thomas: Wow. You got Lydia. All right.

0:05:07 Lydia: It is nonsense. I love it.

0:05:10 Thomas: Wow. Well, thank you so much. It's the gift that keeps on giving is these patrons. You're amazing. Patreon .com slash law. Join the ranks. And we will see you after the break. Right what's the first item on our jet I know you insisted on an amuse-bouche because we're doing heavy dark stuff for the main lifting here

0:05:26 Matt: Yum. Since it's Christmas, we don't actually have any amuse-bouche in this one. We have some lovely young drunk college kids. These are my heroes. These kids are great. And I love this so much.

0:05:37 Lydia: Well, the subject that what they're talking about is the douche, right?

0:05:41 Matt: Yes.

0:05:41 Lydia: So they are also commenting on an amuse-bouche. Yeah.

0:05:39 Thomas: Don't stop him he was talking about how young college kids are his personal heroes I'm I'm waiting to see how this works yeah

0:05:47 Lydia: Sorry. I was intervening on your behalf, Matt.

0:05:51 Matt: But honestly, I've been, you know, we're all a little worried about young white men right now. And, you Know, the manosphere has taken everything over. I guess they're all listening to Joe Rogan and lifting out and doing who knows what. But it's good to see young, drunk white men doing something sensible. This is actually very funny. This is perfect comic timing. Just wait till the end because this is a very short video. It's the last five seconds, three seconds. It's a real payoff here. But it's really fun to watch otherwise. Let's just enjoy. Just a man on the street interview with these guys.

0:06:10 Thomas: All right well let's see here man the street interview here we go

0:06:19 Clip: You support ICE. Nah, not really. They don't - You support ice. Nah, Not really. They don - Fucking nah. Why is that? Cause it's not good. Okay. No, it's splitting up families. It's not right. These people are not illegal. It's fucking holocaust shit. That's holocaust shit. Come on. Okay, what do you say to the people in the comments, ICE is just following the law, everyone should support them? In Germany, they were following the laws. That's how they fucking said that shit. And you know what? Following the law does not mean it's legal. That does not means it's right. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, thats

0:06:22 Thomas: Hold on it looks it's starting here oh

0:06:53 Clip: What I am saying. These people voted for this! They voted for THIS! And that's WRONG! What was the last illegal thing you did? Underage drinking? You didn't

0:06:58 Matt: Here it comes.

0:07:09 Lydia: My gosh. It's like an SNL sketch. Like, it's like a funny SNL sketch.

0:07:11 Thomas: So good fantastic

0:07:11 Matt: That's so good. Underage drinking. Yeah, I've seen it so many times and I love it so much. It gives me real hope for the kids, I got to tell you. So there you go.

0:07:20 Lydia: Man, love that.

0:07:19 Thomas: The the some of the kids are sort of all right I guess yeah that's delightful good times consider

0:07:25 Lydia: Those two guys anyway. Yeah.

0:07:24 Matt: Are all right yeah yeah fun times in minnesota out in the snow

0:07:31 Thomas: This douche amused just... Wait,

0:07:34 Matt: That's right at the end of the day we are all the douches being amused it's

0:07:37 Thomas: I'm not doing another ad break after just that. Okay, so I guess we've got to go right into it.

0:07:40 Lydia: Well, we'll dig into it.

0:07:40 Matt: We got to press on let's let's set up the epstein story let's talk about what we're actually getting into today unfortunately uh so uh before we start looking at this stuff remind everybody that uh the epstein files transparency act was passed by congress last month and I'll just give you a a quick rundown of the Epstein Files Transparency Act. We'll link to it. But 30 days after the enactment, which was November 19th, which if you're counting means Friday was the day it was all supposed to come out, the Attorney General shall make publicly available in a searchable and downloadable format. That's arguable if they've done that. Everything relating to Jeffrey Epstein, Glenn Maxwell, flight records, everything you might ever want to know, internal DOJ communications, which is the most interesting part of what's come out recently, all communications and memos, etc., etc. Now, no record shall be withheld, delayed, or redacted on the basis of embarrassment, reputational harm, or political sensitivity, including any government official, public figure, or foreign dignitary. They submitted a memo to Congress, a six-page thing explaining why they thought that maybe there's another law that overrules this. I don't have time to get into that right now. But the

0:08:41 Matt: Attorney general may withhold or redack the segregable portions of records that contain personal identifiable information about victims, obviously. Anything that depicts child sex abuse material, obviously nobody wants that out there. Anything that would jeopardize an active federal investigation. We were talking about how Trump might try to get an investigation coming with Bill Clinton, right, to try to get that.

0:08:59 Matt: But of course, they were happy to release pictures of Bill Clinton. I don't think that's happened yet.

0:08:59 Thomas: And did that... That kind of fizzled out. We thought that was going to be a plan for them to not... All right, here, I got it up here. Where where are we on this thing? Second page.

0:09:05 Lydia: Play. Yeah, the

0:09:08 Matt: Second page. Third page, rather. Third page. Yeah so if you want to look at the withholding section. They released on Friday within the 30 day deadline was, as you probably have heard by now, a whole lot of photos, all PDFs, by the way, just pure like one page PDF. Each one was a photo. The whole thing, all of these releases have just been one page PDFs all the way through. And every page is really obnoxious, which is why I really appreciate people are immediately putting up searchable formats with keywords, everything available. They're not making this easy. You know, I think they're just going to keep doling this stuff out. They released a little bit more on Saturday, and then they released a bunch more on the morning of Tuesday. Just as everybody's starting to wind up and go home for the holidays, they dump out the stuff they actually wanted to see, which is a lot of the internal DOJ communications we're going to look at, a lot of interesting emails. You know, again, I flagged a few of the things that I thought were particularly interesting after going through keywords, especially involving some of our favorite key players. You knows Dershowitz is going to be in here, so we got

0:10:02 Lydia: Dersh.

0:10:02 Matt: Some Dersh emails. Emails. But I'm going to try to take this through a little bit. But if you want to pull up the slideshow here, we can talk about what we actually got. And this is thank you, Olivia, for our very Epstein Christmas.

0:10:12 Lydia: Thank Thank you, Olivia.

0:10:14 Matt: I didn't want to call it that, but we have to.

0:10:07 Thomas: Here we go. I like the Christmas themed colors for the logo.

0:10:17 Matt: Yeah, that's true. That's beautiful. Nicely done. So let me give you a taste, because I'm sure you heard by now that the entire grand jury transcripts were reacted in full. So you just got page after page after or page of black text. Nothing. Just nothing was released from those grand jury transcripts.

0:10:19 Lydia: The Epstein Clause. Oh,

0:10:23 Thomas: So good.

0:10:32 Lydia: Yeah. Didn't The Onion post a video? Ben Collins, he posted a video of him just scrolling and it's just black, black, black.

0:10:34 Matt: Just scrolling through it. Yeah. It's incredible.

0:10:37 Thomas: And then they reposted the famous onion thing that was like CIA realizes it's been using black highlighters this whole time whatever

0:10:43 Matt: That's right. And fortunately, we had talked in LA a couple of months ago about how DOJ was pushing to get grand jury records from these different cases released. And obviously, there is no exception that would just allow the judge to just release them. But under the Transparency Act, the judge did find a couple of weeks ago that they were going to have to release them and they did. So now, well, they did in the sense that they released pages that were allegedly that were redacted grand jury materials. There are grand jury material materials from 2005 and 2007 in this release, which is very exciting, things you can actually read. So we'll talk about those as we go here, but let me just give you a little taste. And thanks to attorney Brad Heath on Blue Sky for catching this one. Put that in the next page here.

0:11:27 Matt: Check out these redactions on that next page. This is a table of citations from a brief, from Motion. And they're speculating that maybe it automatically redacted SDNY for some reason, because it appears to be reference.

0:11:27 Thomas: This oh this oh case it what

0:11:33 Lydia: Why? Why?

0:11:45 Matt: Yeah, so we're looking at a table citations essentially. What my favorite one that was right in the middle, see that blank V Maxwell?

0:11:43 Thomas: The hell

0:11:53 Matt: You want to guess who?

0:11:53 Thomas: And then let's just like us or something

0:11:55 Lydia: Okay.

0:11:55 Matt: Yeah, it's a federal criminal case against Ghislaine Maxwell. I'm pretty sure that, yeah. Yeah.

0:11:58 Thomas: So it's we can't know that it's the us

0:12:01 Matt: Actually, you know what? That's a 2018 case, so that actually might not be. You know what, that's the civil case. That's the simple case.

0:12:07 Thomas: And it's is it in it's an alpha looks like it's in alphabetical order so it'S oh okay something v okay I can transition I can zoom this here blank v maxwell yeah

0:12:14 Lydia: Gotcha.

0:12:10 Matt: So the plaintiff's name is redacted. Yeah. But there's still enough information with the citation that you can immediately find out what that is. This is clearly not intentional. This is just some sort of weird auto -redaction, but people are catching all kinds of places is where things are redacted in just weird ways.

0:12:26 Lydia: Lazy.

0:12:21 Thomas: Obviously huh what would it be redacting so it's something number so it is between so it something in a parentheses that's before a lot of but

0:12:38 Matt: I think it's SDNY because the jurisdiction is in the parentheses there. So yeah, that would be SDNY probably.

0:12:41 Thomas: Doesn't there look like there's a a period after it every single time oh

0:12:44 Lydia: Is that standard formatting? Matting.

0:12:47 Matt: It could be, yeah. But just a little taste because obviously this is just some sort of automated or random thing.

0:12:47 Thomas: It would be okay huh I wonder if yeah is it something where it's it looks like somebody's initials so they're maybe that's it

0:12:59 Matt: Oh, right. That's a good point. It might be automatically redacting initials because obviously all the victims are going to be referred to that way. So that could be. Maybe they just...

0:13:05 Thomas: I bet you that's it

0:13:07 Lydia: Well, but then we have DLC there in the Henry Wynette, and you see DLC at the end of that citation. Capital DLC, the one that's aligned to page 24.

0:13:10 Thomas: Dlc sorry which no periods though yeah so

0:13:17 Matt: But there's no no periods after it. Yeah.

0:13:20 Lydia: But what about U .S.

0:13:20 Thomas: Maybe the periods are the key you

0:13:22 Lydia: Period? There's U.

0:13:24 Thomas: Doubt well well, maybe it knows to not

0:13:25 Lydia: S. everywhere.

0:13:24 Matt: But yeah, there might be.

0:13:27 Lydia: I don't know.

0:13:28 Matt: Anyway, I just want to give you the idea here. We can go into the next one.

0:13:29 Thomas: Do that. US. Maybe US was an easy one for them to be like, okay, not that one. You don't need to redact that.

0:13:37 Matt: I mean, I'm sympathetic to how much work this has to be to actually redact this stuff. I means, it's a lot of pages to go through. So let's check out one of the big revelations here from all of this that came out on Tuesday morning. Let's check out the next page. We've got the biggest reference to Trump, and I'm not going to talk a lot about about Trump. He's not really much of this, but this is big.

0:13:38 Lydia: Odd at

0:13:59 Thomas: All right. This one?

0:14:01 Matt: Yeah, this is an email, January 7th, 2020, from an assistant U.S. attorney. Of course, we don't know which one. And Lydia, if you want to read the highlighted, many

0:14:10 Lydia: The very bottom. All right. For your situational awareness. Wanted to let you know that the flight records we received yesterday reflect that Donald Trump traveled on Epstein's private jet many more times than previously has been reported, or that we were aware, including during the period we would expect to charge in a Maxwell case. In particular, he is listed as a passenger on at least eight flights between 1993 and 1996, including at least four flights on which Maxwell was also present. He is listed Listed as having traveled with, among others, and at various times, Marla Maples, his daughter Tiffany, and his son Eric. On one flight in 1993, he and Epstein are the only two listed passengers. On another, the only three passengers are Epstein, Trump, and then 20-year-old Redacted. On two other flights, two of the passengers, respectively, were women who would be possible witnesses in a Maxwell case. We've just finished reviewing the full records, more than 100 pages, a very small script, and didn't want any of this to be a surprise down the road. From

0:14:23 Matt: More.

0:15:11 Lydia: An assistant U.S. attorney out of SDNY.

0:15:11 Matt: That is quite an email. And then up above that, you don't have to go, but the person actually responds. The only reply is, who are the two Maxwell witnesses? Because they want to know. Obviously, they're putting the Maxwell case together at this point to prosecute her. Now, just because they were women who'd be possible witnesses of the Maxwell case does not mean they were necessarily minors, but there's a very good possibility they were minors at the time. Some of the other witnesses in the Maxwell case were people that were co -conspirators, including women who helped him to supply women. So that's the biggest thing.

0:15:41 Lydia: Well, and then in Maxwell's, like, conversation with Blanche, wasn't she like, oh, you know, like barely knew Donald Trump, you Know, like rarely interacted with him.

0:15:50 Lydia: I mean, obviously we all knew that was fake, but like.

0:15:51 Matt: There's... Yeah. No. It's a good reminder though, because there's so much in here. Oh also, Thomas, I meant to mention before, I know one of your favorite things about that we've done recently was trying to go through that audio and the work you did to reconstruct the Todd Blanch audio. And if you want it, the raw masters are now available in the AppState tab if you wanna go through.

0:16:09 Matt: They don't sound much better, but every single audio file.

0:16:10 Thomas: But... I think that I could tell that But everything was just as a result of terrible recording technique. And there wasn't any like, it wasn't like the file quality was, I can get the remaster gone and get the actual, you know, 192 ,000 K or whatever outtakes.

0:16:18 Matt: Yeah, it was really, but right.

0:16:25 Lydia: Thomas's version tv the

0:16:27 Matt: Yeah that's right. It's got all the outtakes too. Maybe there really are outtakes, there might be, I don't know, but bloopers. Bloopers, but it's like little two second audio files.

0:16:33 Lydia: Little bloopers yeah

0:16:37 Thomas: Like the, like the end of podcast bloopers we do.

0:16:40 Matt: I was wondering if you went through, like if your patients might be rewarded, if you get some weird blooper stuff in there, but I mean, just, they just dumped in all of the wave files for everything that he recorded in that room with her. So who knows?

0:16:50 Thomas: Yeah. You don't think that you think there's different stuff? I don't think there is different stuff.

0:16:53 Matt: No, I don't know. I just thought it was weird that they gave us the safe source material instead of just maybe just to prove everything. But all right, let's take a look at the next thing.

0:16:59 Thomas: Well, thing is differently shaped and hard to zoom in on and it takes me a second. So first I'll give you this super zoomed out preview of it and since you did a delightful slideshow for For whatever reason, I can't like zoom in on a slideshow on the docks. So I have to do it a very annoying way, which sucks because I do love the slideshow. I love that part of it. Maybe we'll find something that works in every single way. But OK, I filibustered long enough. Maybe it's something here.

0:17:04 Matt: That's true. Yes. Okay. There we go, that's unfortunate.

0:17:30 Matt: Well, let's talk about tips for a minute. So

0:17:33 Thomas: Oh, God, is this the yeah.

0:17:33 Matt: You, yeah, so this is a very, very specific tip because it is coming from one Mark Epstein, the younger brother, and verified from Mark Epsteins because Mark Epstine apparently does believe this. I just didn't know the extent to which he believed it, but I will note that you've been seeing a lot of things flying around about different allegations, including yet another sexual assault allegation against Trump, which we're all willing to believe, obviously. We have no doubt he sexually assaulted people. We'll get to that one, I think. But really anything after the Epstein prosecution, once it was starting to get into the news, I mean, anybody could make these tips, right? So you can't necessarily assume these are facts. These are just tips. But this one I thought was particularly interesting on February 22nd, 2023.

0:17:40 Thomas: Not the yeah, hmm. Yeah.

0:18:14 Lydia: It's right. On February 22nd, 2023, at 6 .24 p .m. Eastern Time, Mark Epstein, date of birth, we don't know, cellular telephone number, blah, email account, blah. Residential address, IP address, which resolves to whatever, submitted an online tip to the FBI National Threat Operations Center via tips.fbi.gov regarding allegations of murder of Jeffrey Epstein in blank. Link uh yeah submitted text down below jeffrey epstein was murdered in his jail cell I have reason to believe he was killed because he was about to name names I believe president trump authorized his murder what was the exact crime that occurred murder when did

0:18:25 Thomas: Cellular telephone number.

0:18:27 Matt: So you get to submitted

0:18:38 Thomas: Hmm.

0:18:41 Matt: Text. It's quite a thing. So

0:18:57 Lydia: The crime incident occur?

0:18:58 Thomas: Most foul.

0:18:59 Lydia: August 9th, 2019. Yeah. Where? In his cell.

0:19:01 Matt: Mark Epstein was also in touch. There's a weird earmail exchange in the record here, and I'm not going to pull it up because it's just too weird. But he was in touch with a guy who identified himself as Melvin Cohn, also suggested that may or may not be his real name, also suggested he may or might be associated with some sort of intelligence. And it's this whole thing about how we all know that Jeffrey Epstein was not working for Mossad, but you should watch your back. And I know about the cars that have been outside your house. And there's just a bunch of weird stuff.

0:19:26 Matt: I don't know what to make of any of this. I just wanted to sort of put it in. But

0:19:30 Thomas: I don't think he was murdered, but who knows?

0:19:32 Matt: I don'T think so either, but a lot of people do. So I just want to throw that in. Mark Epstein has really been passed over for the most part by the media. There hasn't been a lot investigation of him. I don't want to slander him in this recording, maybe in a future recording, but there's some weird stuff going around him too. So let's go on to the next one because this is the one that you've been seeing in the news, I think probably. I just wanted to address it and move on because it is weird.

0:19:58 Matt: So the second half of this on the right side is the relevant part that's been highlighted. And this is another

0:20:04 Thomas: The highlight is actually the part I want to look at. Nice. That makes it easy for me. I

0:20:06 Matt: Tip that was called in. And of course, the Trump people jumped on the fact that this tip was called on the 27th of October 2020, days before the election. So take of it what you will, but there's a lot of detail in here. And so the person who is a little confusing, but the person submitting the tip is talking about somebody he's talking to that he knows that had driven a limo that Trump had been in.

0:20:25 Thomas: Can get this zoomed for us. Here we go.

0:20:38 Lydia: So he knew the driver in that situation. Okay, Blank asked Blank about his time driving a limousine for two years in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. During Blank's time as a driver, he had met Donald Trump. Blank noted he he picked the president up in 1995 and took him to the DFW airport. Blank reported some of things President Trump had spoken about during the ride while on his cell phone were very concerning. Blank recorded he was, quote, a few seconds from pulling the limousine over on the median and within a few minutes of pulling him out of the car and hurting him due to some of the things he was saying, as Collar chose not to. Blank noted Trump continuously stated the name Jeffrey while on the the phone and made references to, quote, abusing some girl. Blank was unsure who he was talking to nor who he Was referencing. As Blank talked about his time meeting Donald Trump, Blank immediately, blank demeanor, went, quote stone cold, as Blank stated, quote he raped me. Blank said, quote what, as Blank replied, quote Donald J. Trump had raped her along with Jeffrey Epstein. Blunk noted some Some girl with a funny name, quote, took me into a fancy hotel or building. That's how it happened.

0:20:41 Matt: Yes, I believe. There's other references in this tip to trying to spell Ghislaine, trying to remember the name Ghislain, and then claims later in this tip that this person had her head blown off in Kefir, Oklahoma, and that there was no way it was a suicide. Now, the note at the end is somewhat discrediting because it references is somebody named John W. Nichols, who is a figure in right -wing conspiracy theories about Oklahoma City. I don't know. I wanted to say this is a tip. This seems fake because there's some interesting details, but I just wanted to put it out there because you're going to be seeing this one a lot. It has a new rape allegation against Donald Trump. And again, we're all willing to believe these kinds of allegations against Donald trump. I'm certainly willing to believe that if you heard Donald trump talking about these things, you would want to pull over to the side of the road and try to hurt him. That's the most believable part of the tip. But otherwise, otherwise I don't know I don'T think this is really anything um the legal stuff in this is much more interesting I just want to kind of get these out of the way because this is stuff people might have heard about in the headlines it

0:22:15 Thomas: This seems fake. Yeah, that's weird. I don't know. It

0:22:44 Matt: Is weird yeah

0:22:44 Thomas: Doesn't seem very credible to me, but okay. Interesting. I know

0:22:46 Matt: Well much more credible is coming up if we go to uh the next email from the invisible man uh the Invisible Man to Ghislaine Maxwell, subject summer camp.

0:22:57 Lydia: Okay. I am up here at Balmoral summer camp for the royal family. Activities take place all day, and I am totally exhausted at the end of each day. The girls are completely shattered, and I will have to give them an early night today, as it is getting tiring. During splitting them up all the time how's la have you found me some new inappropriate friends let me know when you are coming over as I am free from 25th august until 2nd september and want to go somewhere hot and sunny with some fun people before having to put my nose firmly to the grindstone for the fall any ideas gratefully received c -a -a xxx prince andrew yeah are

0:23:33 Matt: And this is, of course, the man formerly known as the Duke of York, Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor. No doubt that this is... I mean, who else would be sending this email? Just, you know, yeah, some new and appropriate.

0:23:44 Lydia: The girls in reference to his daughters there because

0:23:46 Matt: Yeah, I hope so. I really hope so, I

0:23:48 Lydia: I I initially read it as like because he's a a pedophile creep and so like that's absolutely disgusting I'm like dear god let those be his kids and I can interpret it in a very different way yeah

0:23:50 Matt: Know. Oh, yes. I had the same thought. Yes. Yes, I think I'm just going to choose to believe that and move on. But he is looking for new inappropriate friends. And he knows exactly who to ask his inappropriate friend, Ghislaine Maxwell, who will supply them. Yeah, Gmax1.

0:24:03 Lydia: G max one

0:24:11 Thomas: Then september 11th happened man this

0:24:13 Matt: Not even a month later. Yeah Yeah.

0:24:15 Thomas: One is wow old okay geez

0:24:18 Matt: All right. So next one, this is important. This is the FBI report that was submitted by Maria Farmer, who is of course one of the known survivors of Epstein. And this is tragic, of course, because she's telling the FBI.

0:24:14 Lydia: Actually yeah like

0:24:18 Thomas: Yuck oh

0:24:30 Matt: She also said she had told the New York Police Department as well about, yes,

0:24:30 Thomas: God is this that old old complaint that that yeah this one just really really unbelievable I don't I don'T even understand how this could have happened

0:24:36 Matt: From 96. That's right. Yeah. Yeah, he

0:24:36 Lydia: 96 yeah uh okay so this is complainant stated that she is a professional artist and took pictures of her sisters 12 and 16 years for her own personal artwork work epstein stole the photos and negatives and is believed to have sold the pictures to potential buyers epstein at one time requested blank to take pictures of young girls at swimming pools epstein is now threatening blank that if she tells anyone about the photos he will burn her house down is

0:25:13 Matt: Made those kinds of threats a lot, it turns out. That just gets kind of an ongoing theme here about these kinds of dangerous threats. So yeah, this is one of those things that if they had found that he was stealing pictures of young girls and started asking some more questions, they probably could have figured out pretty quickly there were other things going on.

0:25:29 Thomas: Like, I don't, I don't trust the cops for much, but I feel like this is something they do usually look into. Um, what the hell?

0:25:30 Lydia: The fbi gonna have to like yeah would there be material because I mean like like the The FBI didn't look into it. But do we know if the New York Police Department also did not look into it? Or do we not know that yet?

0:25:47 Matt: What I saw, Farmer said she didn't hear back from anybody until the plea was taken in 2008, until she was finally contacted about Epstein having done this. Yeah. So nothing ever happened with any of this. But yeah, no, believe women.

0:26:00 Thomas: So we got, we got. How is this? How did this happen? Like we got somebody who, again, I don't have a high opinion of law enforcement really, but like this is something I feel like they usually, maybe a different time, 1996, but I feel like this is something they take seriously. Like, somebody is, you know, stealing pictures of underage girls, right? And then threatening, also threatening to burn down their house. Like, I

0:26:28 Lydia: You know, I feel like it's the Megyn Kelly effect, right? Like how she said, well, you know, 15 is like whatever. And like, I think if you would change the ages on the sisters to like three and seven, I Think it might have been different. Like think back in 1996 it is

0:26:37 Thomas: Don't know. I just think that's really big speculation. And I don'T know if there's, like, I

0:26:47 Lydia: But I think like that's all we can do at this point is speculating but

0:26:50 Thomas: DON'T know if it's ,like, gonna be some bizarre clerical explanation or some, you KNOW, someone had them and was retiring and just lost track of it. Like, what? It's just weird. It there's no um there's not much other information I guess it says complainants address and telephone number so you would think they could like follow up you know is it it's gonna be one of those things who knows back then it's the 90s they try to follow up once and they're not home and or something and then they call and there'sno answering machine and so they're like well did what I could who knows I wish we had more answers on that huh

0:27:26 Matt: I think even in 96, Epstein was pretty connected in New York, so who knows? Who knows? But yeah, let's go on to the next. There's a fun cameo here from one of the guys we spent some time with last time. This is from an early draft of Jeffrey Epstein's will. There are several different drafts of his will. Check out who is appointed to be the successor executor, and in the case of the executor being unable to serve.

0:27:52 Matt: James E. Staley, by the way, was a guy who knew exactly who he was, who kept him banking for quite a while, one of the executors here, but we have Larry Summers, Lawrence H. Summers appointed as successor executor. Summers also makes another...

0:28:05 Thomas: Is that from is that oh okay starting his engines

0:28:08 Matt: That's my hog.

0:28:06 Lydia: It's matt he's on his harley his his crotch rocket

0:28:10 Matt: You know me, can't stay off it. But yeah, Summers also makes other appearance in some handwritten notes. I'm not including here, I just wanted to mention that there are handwritten nodes that contradict the Alan Dershowitz. My wife and kids were in the house story where this woman is saying, no way that's not true. And then also mentioning that at a time when there are a lot of girls around and there was a very long meeting going on that Summers was there in a way that he definitely would have known what was happening. So I just wanted to mention that. Again, those appear to be investigator notes, so that's a little more credible to me than some of these tips coming in from online. There's so many other weird tips that aren't even worth mentioning, but let's go on to the next thing. I just want to give a little Larry Summers cameo there. The most interesting thing about the new releases are in these emails to me. So we have emails between different US attorneys. We will never know who they are, at least for now.

0:29:01 Matt: So on the left you have, this is the earliest reference I could find, September 6th, 2007. He ends up taking the plea in June 2008, but there's so much negotiation back and forth. Now just to remind everybody, this is in Florida. And what they're negotiating, what they are going to be negotiating with the defense attorneys, you'll start to see more and more stuff from the defense as we're going through here, this is just between two prosecutors. But they're going to be negotiating a non -prosecution agreement in which the federal government, and we now know from these releases as of this week, we know that they had so much on him. So the question in the one email was, what's the deal on the table? Just remind me because I haven't been paying attention to this or whatever. And this is a response to what's -the -deal -on -the table. So basically, Yeah.

0:29:42 Lydia: Hi blank oh sorry matt did

0:29:44 Matt: I was going to say, so basically I'll just summarize the first paragraph. He's just saying we're prepared to go forward and we can have a federal plea. And we've learned a lot from, and again, we're still trying to process this, but they were actually a couple of months into the grand jury investigation federally in Florida. They were ready to move forward on some serious money laundering stuff. We still don't have a lot of the financial stuff in here that we're expecting to see later.

0:29:44 Lydia: You have more to okay right

0:30:05 Matt: Yeah. Yeah, potentially. Because they had to get them on federal charges and moving money around was a big part of all of this. But he's saying, just in case Alex Acosta is the US attorney for Southern Florida at the time, Alex is going to come up quite a lot in these conversations. In case Alex changes his mind, and then a formal non -prosecution agreement containing the state police. So basically, they were ready to proceed for trial. They were ready to proceed with the grand jury. And just to finish it up, they're ready to procede with potentially a plea in the future federally and have an offer on the table for that. And then of course, the non -prosecution agreement, which was going to be they were going to, on the condition that he pleaded to extremely minimal state charges, that they would not bring any more federal charges or not any federal charges at all at the end of the federal investigation. And the state, of course, was not happy because the state had deferred, thinking the federal government was going to be actually prosecuting him. But

0:30:04 Thomas: Money laundering yeah huh wow

0:30:56 Matt: Take a look at that middle paragraph. You want to read that one?

0:30:59 Lydia: There are three concerns that I hope we can address tomorrow. First, that there is an absolute drop -dead date for accepting or rejecting because it is strategically important that we indict before the end of September, which means presenting the indictment on September 25th. Second, the agents and I have not reached out to the victims to get their approval, which as Blank politely reminded me, is required under the law.

0:31:22 Matt: Just stop real quick there. Yeah, let's just read that again. As blank politely reminded me, is required under the law. This was a huge problem.

0:31:23 Thomas: What

0:31:31 Matt: On another

0:31:30 Thomas: The hell what

0:31:33 Lydia: And third, I do not want to make any promises about allowing Epstein to self -surrender because I I still believe that we have a good chance of getting him detained.

0:31:41 Matt: Note, they still are taking this seriously as a federal case as of this point. Whoever this is, is not playing the game that everybody else is playing. Because obviously, everybody else, including Alex Acosta at this point, is totally on board with, it seems, allowing Epstein to be treated as gingerly as possible and allowing him to turn himself in and keep this off the record. The part of the non -prosecution agreement is that none of this would ever come out and he'd have to register as a sex offender, but nobody would really know the details.

0:31:45 Thomas: Does that mean and

0:32:13 Matt: And he'd be pleading to the most minimal possible charge of soliciting an underage girl basically for sex.

0:32:21 Matt: So yeah. And then there's on another note, Junior got a call today and basically just saying that Epstein is going to police state charge and the chief, the Palm Beach police chief wanted to know if victims have been consulted, which of course they haven't been. And then just note, yeah, right.

0:32:35 Thomas: They never were right what

0:32:37 Matt: And the judge found in 2019 that they should have been. Yeah, yeah. Oh, no, there's... Yeah.

0:32:38 Lydia: Never.

0:32:39 Thomas: The and they and and all along it's like they knew and just didn't do it holy

0:32:44 Lydia: They knew they were supposed to, and they knew that it was required under the law, as explicitly stated in this email here. And these are attorneys. These are attorneys, yeah.

0:32:50 Thomas: Shit what the the hell yeah u .s attorney yeah yeah

0:32:51 Matt: Politely reminding. Yep. Prosecutors. Yeah.

0:32:55 Lydia: No, no, I know, but all I'm saying is, like, that's even more despicable.

0:32:58 Thomas: This is before trump appointed you know game show hosts or weather people to be these people actually were doing this job for real reasons uh to your point

0:33:08 Matt: So let's check out an email from Jay Lefkowitz just to see the kind of tenor of a lot of these. Now, Jay LeFkowitz is a very well -known litigator. He's is at Columbia. And he is writing now to Alex Acosta directly, the US attorney. And the tone of this email, and you don't have to read the whole thing, but just to get a little taste, maybe the first few sentences.

0:33:11 Thomas: This is crazy hmm

0:33:30 Matt: Excuse me, just read the second paragraph. Check out the second paragraph.

0:33:34 Lydia: Second paragraph, okay. In our prior discussions, you expressed that you were, quote, not unsympathetic to our various federalism concerns, but stated that because you serve within the, quote. Unitary executive, you believed your hands were tied by main justice. You were also extremely gracious in stating that you did not want the United States to be, quote unfair. Fair. Although CEOS limited its assessment to the federal statutes your office had brought forth and to the application of those laws to the facts as presented, it is abundantly clear from blank letter that Maine Justice is not directing this prosecution. In fact, CEOS plainly acknowledged that a federal prosecution of Mr. Epstein would involve a quote novel application of federal statutes and that our arguments against federal involvement are quote compelling. Moreover, Moreover, the language used by Drew in his concluding paragraph, that he cannot conclude that a prosecution by you in this case, quote, would be an abuse of discretion, is hardly an endorsement that you move forward.

0:34:33 Matt: Just look at the tone of this. This is, again, the lead defense attorney writing to the US Attorney for Southern Florida. And He mentions up in that first paragraph, he says, I respectfully request that you not shunt me off to one of your staff. He's like, you have to deal with me. I want to talk to the manager." He's representing someone.

0:34:34 Thomas: Sorry I may have been messing with that with zooming for a second I'm I'm not sure I'm following so what year is this when is this

0:34:57 Matt: This is 2008 when they're getting very close to finalizing the deal. And he's

0:35:01 Thomas: Close to finalizing the deal all all right so

0:35:03 Matt: Just not happy with the way it's going. And this is Jay Lefkowitz. So this is within about a month of the plea happening.

0:35:06 Thomas: The defense who who's who wrote this jay that's

0:35:13 Matt: And he is the lead defense.

0:35:12 Lydia: Part of Epstein's defense team.

0:35:15 Matt: You're gonna hear that name a few more times today. But again, yeah, I just want to show people the tone. And then the response, now this is not a direct response from Acosta, but Alex Acosta was, there's a transcript that came out end of October that he was interviewed by the House committee on this. And he basically all the way through is basically talking about how he was being kind of railroaded by the defense. And they were constantly lying to him and they were just sending him email after email and they're nitpicking and everything. And they're taking back what they were doing. And He's basically suggesting that the U .S. attorney's office was either outsmarted or just ground

0:35:16 Thomas: All right yeah what what in

0:35:49 Matt: Down.

0:35:49 Thomas: The world that's the so this is the the people who do these prosecutions this is like like like federal what you know whatever they are you can't forget all the terms but like

0:35:59 Lydia: Supposed to be like some of the best of the Best.

0:36:02 Thomas: And they're like well the guy he does a lot of emails so we just agreed yeah I was just he's really in like like, pushy. Like, what?

0:36:05 Lydia: I got overwhelmed. It was too much. Fine.

0:36:12 Thomas: Wouldn't you just, yeah, so wouldn't you just be like, hey, fuckfaces, how about, it's off. It's all off. Let's see you in fucking court.

0:36:11 Matt: And they are, you'll see. You'll see with their letters. I mean, right. We've got the evidence, right?

0:36:20 Thomas: Yeah.

0:36:21 Matt: And look at the tone though, just the end of the last paragraph, actually. It's worth reading the sentence at the end at the first paragraph. You and I have both spent a good deal of time on this matter. And I know that we would like to both resolve this matter in a way that it bestows integrity on both the department and the process. This is famously not a plea deal that is full of of integrity. This is one of the most generous plea deals ever given to anyone, possibly the most generous deal ever given anyone. But imagine writing the US attorney. This isn't even some line DA that you're trying to negotiate a plea with. This the main guy and you're being a total Karen about this and just saying, I'm talking to the manager, this is me, and you have to do this. Now, the next one is especially noteworthy because this is Alex Acosta responding to a different allegation or some other things that Lefkowitz said later publicly about how he thought some of this was unfair. And just look at the way that Acosta is bowing and scraping. And I mean, it's embarrassing. This is on DOJ letterhead. I just zoomed it in so we could get it nice and

0:36:27 Thomas: End of the dispute.

0:37:16 Matt: Clear. But yeah, this is quite a statement that if you want to read this one, this is amazing.

0:37:21 Lydia: Yeah. It is an understatement to say that I am surprised by your allegations regarding my role because I thought that we had worked very well together in resolving this dispute.

0:37:30 Matt: This dispute. Yeah.

0:37:33 Lydia: It's not a dispute. It's criminal charges.

0:37:35 Thomas: What the hell?

0:37:36 Matt: He's a sex trafficker.

0:37:37 Thomas: What?

0:37:37 Matt: Yeah,

0:37:38 Lydia: I also am surprised because I feel that I bent over backwards to keep in mind the effect that the agreement would have on Mr. Epstein and to make sure that you and he understood the repercussions of the agreement. For example, that one potential plea could result in no gain time for your client. I corrected one of your calculations of the sentencing guidelines that would have resulted in Mr. Epstein spending far more time in prison than you projected. I contacted the Bureau of Prisons to see whether Mr. Epstein would be eligible for the prison camp that you desired, and I told you my suspicions about the source of the press leak quotes and suggested ways to avoid the press. Importantly, I continued to work with you in a professional manner even after I learned that you had been proceeding in bad faith for several weeks, thinking that I had incorrectly concluded that solicitation of minors to engage in prostitution was a registrable offense and that you would, quote, fool our office into letting Mr. Epstein plead to a non -registrable offense. Even now, when it is clear that neither you nor your client ever intended to abide by the terms of the agreement that he signed, I have never alleged misconduct on your

0:38:01 Thomas: What the fuck is happening? What

0:38:41 Lydia: Part. Why are they best friends?

0:38:41 Thomas: The fuck? What is happening to me? What's

0:38:44 Lydia: Like, who

0:38:44 Thomas: Happening? Yeah, this is, this is nuts, dude.

0:38:45 Matt: It is incredible.

0:38:46 Lydia: Do you work for, Alex Acosta?

0:38:47 Thomas: Who, who, what, how do you you explain this man like but

0:38:47 Matt: It's incredible. Ten years later, this man was the Secretary of Labor. He was allowed to be appointed by Congress as Secretary of labor. He had to resign when all this stuff came out, but this was all knowable at the time. And he was asked about some of this. I don't know if this letter was out at the same time.

0:39:03 Thomas: How do you explain this like is this is this is there any other criminal where this would make any sense and so why like what is the explanation I

0:39:14 Matt: Acosta did work at Kirkland and Ellis and knew Lefkowitz before, so we'll start with maybe some sort of personal relationship. But the fact is that he had been And browbeaten, as he was saying, and constantly ground down by these attorneys, constantly, including Dershowitz, just writing him and Ken Starr and harassing him. And we'll see some more of this in here too. And nitpicking every single thing of these. But he's defending his own integrity about some allegations that Lefkowitz had made about his ethical compromises or something. I mean, it's just, it'S insane. It really is, the whole thing. I can't imagine. He put this on Department of Justice letterhead, this letter. This isn't even an email.

0:39:48 Lydia: Gonna have this engraved in like stone and then when he dies I'm going to put it over at his like tombstone it feels like he's working for him like that's what it reads like to me like I've done everything you asked I've been doing everything you've done I've done everything left wits

0:39:59 Matt: It's bizarro day. Yeah, right.

0:39:51 Thomas: Just I feel just too confused by this this doesn't make any sense yeah it's like give him a sweetheart deal everything you ask and then the the prosecuting like the person in charge of the prosecutING this this sex offender or whatever is like, hey, you're saying some mean things about our deal that we did or something. I don't understand this. Can you imagine a black drug dealer getting this kind of treatment by the justice system where they're like, oh, we considered how it would affect Mr. Epstein. I've gone to the prison that he's going to be at. It's cozy.

0:40:37 Lydia: I chatted with the warden they're very excited to have you.

0:40:39 Thomas: I checked out the room the little room that they have it's

0:40:43 Lydia: They've agreed to give you a mint every night on your pillow.

0:40:46 Thomas: All ready yeah it's like what is happening yeah

0:40:47 Matt: I checked your math homework and you were about to let him get more sentencing and I made sure he didn't get more time than he was supposed to. Yeah I know. I knew you'd love this one.

0:40:53 Lydia: That is crazy. I forget when all the Alex Acosta stuff was coming out, like, is there recourse for the people that were being represented by the United States Department of Justice at that time? Like, you know, they were pursuing Epstein on behalf of the following people that he, you know. Hurt do they have any recourse or it's just kind of sol like yeah

0:41:19 Matt: So the Crime Victims Restoration Act is what's going to come into play here to allow the victims to sue, if that's what you mean. And there's going going to be a whole other discussion we're going to get into, and we're trying to move here, but there's a long back and forth in all of these emails, and I did not excerpt most of them, but this is like a big subject of the emails, is who is going tobe appointed to manage the victim's rights in this, because they very much have their idea about who should be doing that, and the prosecution has their idea, and they're quibbling back and fourth about, you know, and it's amazing that they think they get this much say in it, because the victims are going to bring suit, andthey know they're goingto bring suit. And they're just trying to manage there's the damage here. But of course, they're not being told. Yeah, no, it is.

0:41:52 Thomas: Is absolutely nuts and they were

0:41:55 Lydia: Crazy

0:41:55 Thomas: Never even I don't understand that like I still think I'm still confused it just doesn't like if we looked at other things that acosta did like other he would have been like at that time would they be like this too or is this just some special you know Epstein had connections to somebody or the, I guess, like you're saying, maybe the specific attorney involved, like he has too much deference to, but that is just sheer incompetence, right?

0:41:55 Lydia: If

0:42:23 Matt: I would be surprised if Alex Acosta was this involved in prosecution at this level for most cases. I mean, this is... And you'll see he's cc'd on a lot of stuff here. They know that Epstein has a lot money and has a big defense team, and I guess they have to take him seriously, but it's not... I don't know.

0:42:39 Thomas: This is weird. Wow.

0:42:40 Matt: Yeah. Well, let's...

0:42:42 Lydia: It feels like yeah it feels Like he doesn't want to piss off Epstein for some reason like he wants to keep that connection or

0:42:46 Thomas: So they're all very sorry that this happened to him.

0:42:50 Matt: Yes. Yeah? No, the effect it's going to to have on your client. No, the way he talks about it is... And remember, I'm just going to...

0:42:53 Thomas: What the huh

0:42:54 Lydia: And and I'm on your team is like how this reads to me and that's disgusting Testing.

0:42:57 Matt: Basically. Yeah. Yeah, I am going to remind everybody that he did say in print at one point that he had did not have a lot of sway over what was going to happen with this plea because Epstein belonged to intelligence. He took that back later. But that's what Acosta said. Now he needed an excuse, I guess, but that's just a thing that's out there.

0:43:10 Thomas: Well that's what Acosta said I don't know man I like I thing is I don t know but like I also it doesn t make any sense in any reason like I don it it reads as though he is dealing with his like supervisor like it reads is though Alex Acosta is trying to make his manager happy be. And he's talking to the defense attorney.

0:43:36 Matt: So let's... Oh, yeah, there's more of that in these emails. There's, yeah. Yeah, I've

0:43:37 Thomas: I've never, I mean, I'm no expert. We've covered a lot of law in the last decade. I have never heard of anything like this. Have you?

0:43:46 Matt: Emailed a lot of prosecutors and a lot of government lawyers. I'm always very polite. I can be a little tense when I need to be, but they are short, usually.

0:43:50 Thomas: Aren't they dicks usually? Especially to fucking sex offenders. I feel like they're not going to be normally super cool.

0:43:57 Matt: I mean, you'll definitely get a happy holidays or whatever, but yeah, no, you're not going to get this kind of respect, this kind of deference. I won't, right?

0:44:04 Thomas: So, okay, you're working with the attorneys. Sometimes it's going to to be a little different than, they're not going to treat the defense attorney as though he's Epstein himself, I guess. I'll say that much.

0:44:15 Matt: Unless they really earned it. And sometimes defense attorneys do earn that, too.

0:44:18 Thomas: Fair enough. But, but this is crazy, right?

0:44:21 Matt: Yeah, this is. Well, if you want to see something that's a little more along the lines we're used to.

0:44:24 Thomas: Well, if you want to see something, we got to thank patrons because we've gone on long. We haven't taken another break. So we've got to think, yeah, this prosecutorial misconduct brought to you by the following Hall of Famer patrons at patreon .com slash law. Thank you to A Negative phenomenon. David Sother. Al lets Della call Ed Stella. I think that's a leftover one.

0:44:29 Matt: Oh cliffhanger. I gotta tell you.

0:44:46 Thomas: You got to fight for your right to ex parte. Jay Sink, probably a real vehicle.

0:44:53 Thomas: I love that one. That's vehicular man's laughter. Changed their name and picked a great one. They're fantastic. When we're still a bit sick, it's hard to, if you make us laugh, like I might have a coughing fit for an an hour.

0:45:04 Lydia: That's why I keep going to the side.

0:45:07 Thomas: Cavalry, a merry chunkmas to all. Oh yeah, chunkmas is coming.

0:45:10 Matt: There we go.

0:45:10 Lydia: Chunk mess.

0:45:11 Thomas: Even a blind squirrel can find these chunks. Today's episode is brought to you by the letter and then the whatever bizarre character. They're still getting us on that. Thomas Freeman, Cajun Killa, Fraud Fishy Hates Everything, Chris Simpson, Gavelhead Chucking Away, E .T., Anonymous Akilah, and Mark Schultz. Thank you, patrons. And we'll take another quick break, which is probably late at this point, but we'll make it work. All what's next on the docket here?

0:45:39 Matt: It's Dersh time, everybody. So we've got email from March 18th, 2009. I just had to feature this exchange because this is Dershm emailing an unknown U .S. attorney. We don't know which assistant U .N. attorney it is, but check out on the right here. Let's start there. It was nice having a drink is the subject line.

0:45:41 Thomas: Dershtime! Woo! On

0:45:42 Lydia: Man.

0:45:56 Thomas: The right, okay.

0:46:00 Lydia: Dear Blank, it was so nice having a relaxed drink and conversation on the porch of our neighborhood bistro. I hate that this is how he writes. Now you see why we love this location so much and want to make it our second and perhaps our first home. What? Oh, like primary. Okay.

0:46:16 Matt: Florida.

0:46:16 Lydia: I appreciate your kind words of advice, encouragement, and friendship. I also appreciate Your candor.

0:46:22 Thomas: You're Kandwa. Oh, we killed Lydia.

0:46:25 Matt: Can't walk.

0:46:29 Lydia: Yeah, I keep dying.

0:46:31 Thomas: Kandua.

0:46:32 Lydia: I also appreciate your candor and

0:46:32 Thomas: Kander with an I in there. Now you're going to tell me that's actually how it's been the whole time, and I'm wrong. I can't wait for that. Can't oh

0:46:38 Lydia: Directness about the difficult and emotionally exhausting case we both went through. Okay. I especially appreciate your assurance that the feds will not interfere with how the Palm Beach Sheriff administers Jeffery's sentence as long as he is treated like any similarly situated inmate.

0:46:45 Thomas: Okay no he just can't type jeffery there's no fucking chance he's gonna be drew like any similar

0:47:13 Lydia: He already hasn't been. Come on. My understanding is that if the sheriff were to decide in the normal course of events that the circumstances warranted Jeffrey free completing the custodial portion of a sentence under alternative custody slash in -home detention your office would not intrude thanks again for meeting me on such short notice I will keep you apprised of our rental or purchase plans because he cares and I'm looking forward to spending time with you and your life

0:47:42 Matt: I didn't catch that before. You and your life.

0:47:44 Thomas: I don't I know this is a time of that's so funny that's so creepy like you and your life yeah

0:47:48 Matt: It sounds like a thread. Real nice life you got there.

0:47:52 Lydia: My god when we return in november best alan Alan, you and your life.

0:47:54 Matt: Sure hope you have more of it. So look what Dershowitz is doing with this email. He's, well,

0:48:02 Lydia: Sent via Blackberry, Matt. How does that make you feel?

0:48:04 Thomas: Yeah you're on team Dersh

0:48:05 Matt: I mean, you'll notice it's much better written than Epstein's. I was also, I'm still using BlackBerry. I've been using Blackberry Friday, 2009, of course. So I just want to point out what he's doing though. He is casually talking about this great time they had having a drink out at the bistro. And then like, oh yeah, I just want to remind you that what we talked about, that you said that you're not going to make sure, you're going to put any pressure on Palm Beach to keep him from his work release. Because they're very concerned about making sure, because of course he's supposed to be doing 18 months of the softest possible time. And dann he ends up being able to do quote unquote work release, which means going back to his own office for 12 hours a day with two Palm Beach sheriffs in suits suits standing outside.

0:48:40 Matt: So let's see the response on the other side, because this guy does not want it known in writing that he said that.

0:48:39 Lydia: On the taxpayer dollar, yeah.

0:48:42 Thomas: I'll respond on the other side yeah cuz it so this struck me as like they had a meeting who knows how you know over some over some pierogies yeah Yeah. And who knows how like, you know, friendly this guy was in person. And then Dershowitz wants to do the lawyer thing and like get it documented right away.

0:48:53 Lydia: Perhaps shared some pierogies.

0:48:56 Matt: Some adult pierogies, I don't know.

0:49:08 Thomas: And in this totally, obviously transparently bullshit thing where it's like, oh, thinking back to our time where you made me the following promises that I'm now putting in writing.

0:49:07 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, yeah

0:49:07 Matt: Yeah, yeah.

0:49:15 Lydia: Yeah yeah. Yeah, I especially appreciated your sentence that went like this.

0:49:22 Thomas: Yeah. Okay. So it's that one. Are we on the lower one here? I'll try to get it up.

0:49:25 Matt: Lower left, and then we can work out.

0:49:26 Thomas: Okay, here we go. Let's get that there. All

0:49:31 Lydia: Alan, it was great seeing you and your beautiful family as well. As we were talking, I couldn't help but think that Don Rickles once referred to that same area as... He redacted the O from God's... God's waiting room.

0:49:42 Matt: That's a Jewish thing. That's

0:49:43 Lydia: Oh, okay. Okay.

0:49:43 Matt: Fine.

0:49:45 Lydia: Thank you. I did not know that. What a transformation. Hopefully you'll be coming down for many years to come, and I look forward to maintaining and growing our friendship. Regarding Mr. Epstein, the United States Attorney's Office will not interfere with how the Palm Beach Sheriff's Office administers the sentence imposed by the court. That being said, this does not mean that the USAO condones or encourages PBSO to mitigate the terms and conditions of a sentence. Furthermore, it does not means that if contacted for our position concerning alternative custody or in -home detention, we would not object. To be clear, if contacted, we will object. Naturally I also expect that no one on behalf of mr epstein will use my assurance to you to affirmatively represent to pbso that the usao does not object to an alternative custody or in -home detention have a safe trip back to boston and I look forward to reading your new book take care

0:49:44 Thomas: Right. Right. That's right. Okay.

0:50:36 Lydia: Yeah

0:50:36 Matt: You don't. So this is great, because of course, Alan Dershowitz has sent this email reminding him of this conversation to his government email, which he knows can be potentially subject to just this kind of thing. Yeah. So he's putting it in very clear terms. Now, again, the US Attorney's Office doesn't necessarily have any say in how a sentence is carried out by the state at all. So it doesn't really matter, as he's pointing out. But he's also saying, we're not necessarily going to sit back if they ask us what we think about allowing him to be released for alternative custody or in -home detention. I mean, we do work and have an opinion on that. But smart of him to put this in writing. Just very interesting, though, this mix of friends and business.

0:50:47 Thomas: Foyas and yeah. Yeah, yeah.

0:51:13 Matt: And then this is very funny too, the Ellen Dershowitz response,

0:51:16 Lydia: Dear blank sorry I couldn't get back to you earlier with the name and number I will have it for you on monday I really appreciate your willingness to make the call you are a real mensch best akin looking

0:51:26 Matt: Best. He misspelled his own name on his Blackberry.

0:51:29 Lydia: Forward

0:51:29 Thomas: He's an equal opportunity offender there. Give him credit to that.

0:51:33 Matt: I just thought that was funny.

0:51:34 Thomas: Jeffrey on

0:51:35 Lydia: To spending time with you in your life on camera so

0:51:37 Thomas: Camera. Yeah um

0:51:39 Matt: I'm going to end every email with that now.

0:51:41 Lydia: Good

0:51:43 Thomas: What what the fuck is that? Is that just a non sequitur or do we know?

0:51:46 Lydia: I think we just wanted the typo

0:51:46 Matt: I thought it was funny that he misspelled his name. But also just to see this, this is just fascinating to me, this insight of how these these people communicate. Here's another Dershowitz email, the next one.

0:51:50 Thomas: I wasn't sure if I was. Yeah Yeah.

0:51:59 Matt: And he's really working the refs here. He's trying to make sure that his client is not going to have to actually do 18 months in a minimum security facility.

0:52:08 Lydia: Yeah this is all it's all billable though right like all these emails he's sending

0:52:12 Matt: Yeah. And I think they worked.

0:52:14 Thomas: I don't think it's about that. I think it is about

0:52:16 Lydia: I know I I think it's yeah

0:52:17 Matt: It's the love of the game. No,

0:52:18 Thomas: Getting more massages with his underpants on.

0:52:20 Lydia: It's this guy yeah bffs

0:52:22 Thomas: Possibly. Allegedly.

0:52:23 Lydia: Dear blank sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but I've been incredibly busy since I left paradise in miami beach just argued an appeal in new york and debated the mid -east at georgetown I greatly appreciate your willingness to call the sheriff and advise him that your office would take no position on how he handled epstein's sentence as long as he didn't get special treatment but let's put off let but let us put any call off for a while thanks alan but I

0:52:48 Matt: This is sneaky. So this is a few weeks later, he's like, yeah, thanks for making that call for me to the sheriff's office to make Sure that it's clear that the federal government doesn't care if you let him out, as long as he doesn't get any other spatial treatment.

0:53:00 Thomas: He didn't say thanks for making the call. So the first one was like...

0:53:02 Matt: You're willing to call. Sorry, sorry. Yeah, sorry, right, yes. Right.

0:53:05 Thomas: Okay, it was so nice and he is saying I appreciate your candoir and you will not interfere, blah, blah. Okay. So it wasn't really in that first one. Did, did he make that? Okay. So what did he actually say?

0:53:21 Matt: In the second one, he said we still might object.

0:53:23 Thomas: He just says, yeah, we'll not interfere. This doesn't mean that they encouraged Stone. I also expect that. Yeah. Yeah, he didn't. He said, if contacted, we will object, but

0:53:36 Matt: Right. Or we could.

0:53:37 Lydia: Mean we don't know if there's a phone call that happens in between these right well because he specifically I I mean oh

0:53:38 Thomas: Then I, I don't know that this sort of seems like Alan Dershowitz either Either because he received this confirmation in person or he's just fucking being a dirtbag being like, oh, yeah, here's the name and number that you were going to call. And he's the other guy is like, I don't think I ever said that. And then he's like, Oh, didn't get back to you. And then I think he's trying to preserve the idea that he promised to call by saying, I greatly appreciate your willingness to call the sheriff and advise him that your office would take no position. But let's just put that off. Off you know so that that way it's like he can still preserve the idea that he was promised that even though it sounds like he wasn't fucking

0:54:24 Matt: And I'll call upon you at a future date. Yeah... Yeah! No, that's just how how these people operate. It's very interesting. Speaking of how these people operate, we've got another letter from Lefkowitz. This is amazing. The beginning, I had to include this because the opening is so amazing to me, of this letter. I just can't imagine writing like this to the U .S. Attorney's Office or any prosecutor's office. On the left, yeah.

0:54:25 Thomas: Dirtbag so uh okay so remind us so this is that same attorney that apparently is in charge of that is apparently alex acosta's boss yeah his pretty much he's like college professor that he's still trying to impress here I can get a zoomed in yeah yeah here's here's the letter of recommendation I promised and it's getting zoomed a little bit let's start with that left side here okay like

0:54:54 Matt: At the time. Yeah, basically.

0:54:56 Lydia: Dad yeah get that letter of wreck I appreciate your letter of June 17, 2009. I sincerely hope that any and all issues that could generate an adversarial relationship between Mr. Epstein and the United States Attorney's Office are in our past.

0:55:27 Matt: DJ, run that back.

0:55:28 Thomas: I don't know sex abuse what

0:55:32 Matt: Just, please read that again. It's incredible.

0:55:34 Lydia: I sincerley hope that any and any issues that could generate any adversarial relationships between Mr Epstein and the U .S. Attorney's office are in the past. Well, that's up to Mr. Mr. Epstein, is he going to continue to crime?

0:55:35 Thomas: Adversarial yeah yeah that's just the crimes what in

0:55:43 Matt: Like the crimes.

0:55:48 Lydia: If so, then we might be adversaries in the future. We probably should still be adversaries.

0:55:48 Thomas: The world look I don't want this prosecutor -defendant relationship to be adversarial. This should be a collaborative endeavor.

0:55:59 Matt: Too many things coming between us these days. Yeah. Next sentence is pretty good too.

0:56:06 Lydia: Like you, we hope that the ongoing, complex, and at times vigorous litigation will not again require your involvement, nor result in any belief on your part that any legal position taken by Mr. Epstein's counsel conflicts with the non -prosecution agreement.

0:56:20 Matt: So they're talking about the victim litigation, the civil suits that they're filing. They're like, so you're going to stay out of it, right? U .S. Attorney's Office won't be talking to any of those, won't Be participating in these suits, won'T be turning things over.

0:56:30 Thomas: I'm on the second page.

0:56:32 Matt: And then he goes on to browbeat him about, and we don't have to get into too much of this or read it, but a clause in paragraph eight of the non -prosecution agreement. And even though we're trying to end this part of this relationship or move on or whatever, we also very much would appreciate the opportunity on page two, middle paragraph there, we appreciate an opportunity to discuss paragraph eight with you in the very near future in order to clarify a few pivotal questions raised by the NPA. Again, the nonprosecation agreement that we all spent months hammering out. And this is one thing that Acosta was saying is that they would go back and they would try to change the terms of the deal, they'd try to reinterpret things, they'd say, well, it's not actually what he signed, this is unfair to him.

0:56:28 Lydia: Interesting right right

0:57:14 Matt: Paragraph 8, I believe, is as to venue.

0:57:20 Matt: He's referring to paragraph 8 of the non -prosecution agreement that he won't contest the jurisdiction, rather, and also waives his right to contest damages, because he's basically saying Epstein waives his right to contest liability and also waives right to contests damages up to an amount as agreed to between the end bona fide individual. Now, he did settle with a number of people, and I hope they did well. I think we don't know how much it was for or what the terms were, but he said he was going to waive his right to contest the liability at this point. The waiver of liability does not embrace situations where a particular plaintiff asserts multiple violations. Okay, come on. It would require at at most that he stipulated the existence of a single enumerated predicate that would entitle an otherwise eligible plaintiff to actual death. Imagine just getting letter after letter after letter like this every day when he's taken the plea a year ago, and they're still going on about this, about the civil stuff. You can kind of see Acosta's point. Now, again, it's his job to deal with this, but this is what expensive lawyers can do, is just jam you up and write this stuff and try to get out of every single word that you signed. So just thought you'd

0:57:24 Thomas: I see. Gotcha. Yeah. Gosh. Yeah,

0:58:23 Matt: Enjoy that one.

0:58:23 Thomas: I guess if you have, for some reason, infinite resources to fight every little thing, you can just constantly be going in in front of a judge and be like, we, your honor, this didn't mean this when we signed and then they got to do more bullshit around that all the time.

0:58:24 Lydia: What happens like what happens though like if alex acosta receives this and just doesn't respond I

0:58:44 Matt: Yeah. Nothing

0:58:44 Thomas: Well, I don't think he has to do anything to this. I don'T think he asked to respond to this exactly, but I think, well but it sounds, in the same way that the Dershowitz thing happened, it almost sounds like they're kind of hoping there won't be a response because then they can point to it. They can go to the judge and say, your honor we sent this correspondence of this date outlining our idea of the deal and, uh, didn't get any, didn'T get any response and get any fight from them on this.

0:58:48 Matt: This is just about, yeah...

0:58:49 Lydia: Would just like throw it in my epstein file and ignore it but right yeah yeah our understanding I

0:58:56 Matt: Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yeah.

0:59:15 Thomas: So I think, so it's like trying to win by just bombarding them with all these emails and documents and whatever, and just maybe hoping this is just my speculation. Does that sound right, man?

0:59:15 Matt: So, no,

0:59:20 Lydia: Feel

0:59:26 Matt: I think you're right. I think that's absolutely right. I think this might be why people don't like lawyers, I'm actually starting to realize. I hadn't put that together before, this

0:59:32 Thomas: Well, not all of them defend Jeffrey fucking Epstein.

0:59:37 Matt: Vigorously, certainly.

0:59:37 Lydia: Like that that's I mean there are plenty of problems with the system but I feel like that it's just a problem of the system then that like a judge should be able to look at that and be like no this is ridiculous like what you're doing is ridiculous

0:59:47 Thomas: And maybe they would, I guess. Like, I imagine you can tell me, Matt, but it seems like if it came to it, this strikes me as like when you try to get out of the speeding ticket by fighting it and hope the officer doesn't show up in court. Like, maybe if they just do enough of this stuff, there's not really any cost to it other than the money, but the money doesn't matter. They have all the resources in the world. Does that seem like what's happening, Matt?

1:00:12 Matt: Yeah, that's a really good observation, I think, because there's so much lawyer going on here. And I don't do this kind of lawyer. I don't think this way. This is very interesting to me.

1:00:22 Thomas: This is awful.

1:00:23 Matt: And you'll see some more.

1:00:23 Thomas: Awful. I'd rather fucking die than do this kind of thing.

1:00:26 Matt: So I have to really stretch my imagination, I guess.

1:00:27 Thomas: I have dignity. Yeah. It's, it's hard. I can, I, it'S, I feel like we're the same where I think it's harder for you to even engage in this kind of fucking analysis because it's so obnoxious.

1:00:38 Matt: But yeah, Yeah, find somebody scummier, I guess, to be our scummy advisor.

1:00:40 Lydia: Let

1:00:42 Thomas: What if we had, what have we had scumbag lawyer correspondent? Oh, wait, let's get fucking, uh, this would be a good, I guess it could be the, the simpsons lionel hutz or something but like hey dirtbag attorney uh correspondent what is this and they'll be like oh classic scheme okay here you go we'll go they're

1:00:56 Lydia: Me break this down for you you.

1:01:00 Thomas: Like they take the phone call in and in a like their ambulance chasing or whatever I don't know classically

1:01:00 Matt: Maybe Dershowitz has an apprentice we can find somewhere out there. All right, next page.

1:01:06 Thomas: Can't think of anyone I would hate more yeah

1:01:11 Matt: Speaking of Dersh, we got one more Dershm thing. I think this is kind of funny. Actually, it's only the thing on the right. We don't need the one on the left. That was my mistake.

1:01:20 Thomas: Here I'll give you the full screen then I'll zoom reputed

1:01:23 Matt: So this is, I think from what I can tell in his thing here, but I believe that this is some sort of academic.

1:01:34 Matt: And I thought this was a funny note here about Dershowitz, the thing that starts with in May. This is October 3rd, 2020.

1:01:40 Lydia: In May, Professor Alan Dershowitz told me that he was calling on Harvard to further investigate him so that he would be exonerated completely of any wrongdoing in connection with Epstein. In a follow -up to the letter to President Bacow at Harvard, I asked his office recently whether they have any status update on that investigation Professor Dershowitz mentioned to me? It's a good question. You may have seen that Scott Bergersen, Glenn Maxwell's reputed husband, resigned from his tech startup. That leads me to believe the Maxwell deposition is likely to be unsealed.

1:02:14 Lydia: It will be interesting to see what's in there, among other things, perhaps more insight into the activities of various faculty members and administrators at MIT and Harvard. We'll see.

1:02:24 Matt: That was a really tantalizing sentence, as you can imagine for me to read. Various activities, various faculty members are in there. Yeah.

1:02:31 Thomas: So 2020. So who is this again? It's always like I'm always fiddling with the technology. We don't know. Wait, special agent, FBI, Boston.

1:02:33 Matt: We don't know. Yeah? Oh, that's something else. Yeah, that

1:02:39 Thomas: That's something else.

1:02:39 Matt: Wasn't supposed to be in there, don't

1:02:40 Thomas: OK, so that doesn't matter. So it told me he was calling on Harvard to further investigate him. So they're asking, like, did that did that happen?

1:02:41 Matt: Worry about that. Yeah no, I don't think it ever ever did. It's just kind of a fun, ironic kind of like, yeah, it's a good question.

1:02:51 Thomas: And then, we

1:02:52 Lydia: And saying like, oh, there might be some of our friends over at MIT in Harvard who might be implicated as well.

1:02:58 Matt: Just an interesting little thing there for you.

1:03:01 Lydia: Who would be the MIT people be?

1:03:02 Thomas: Don't know who this is or what kind of person this is.

1:03:05 Matt: I think it's an academic based on his email signature, but maybe

1:03:07 Thomas: But what's the yesterday yesterday capucci reposted the epstein interview I did from may yeah

1:03:15 Lydia: I don't know who Capucci is.

1:03:15 Matt: I can look it up. Yeah. Maybe.

1:03:17 Thomas: But so we assume that what's redacted there's a hyperlink I'm guessing to the interview but are they interviewing him are they being interviewed about him because that yeah actually that should be pretty findable

1:03:24 Lydia: Yes, I think so.

1:03:24 Matt: Now I can see. Yeah, I'm tracking it down here. I think it is possible. It looks like it might be somebody named Stephen DeLay. Does that sound like can name me now? Dr. Stephen DeLane.

1:03:43 Thomas: But that doesn't doesn't mean much if I so it could be like another professor though essentially well

1:03:48 Lydia: I see this this Bobby Capucci. Yeah, that's May 2020.

1:03:50 Matt: Oh, it is. Yes.

1:03:52 Lydia: That's what it is. We found it.

1:03:53 Matt: So we can redo that if you want to do that,

1:03:55 Thomas: There we go no this is live man yeah

1:03:55 Matt: Because this matches his email signature. All right.

1:03:56 Lydia: We have the whole transcript of the recording.

1:04:00 Matt: Okay. There we go.

1:04:00 Thomas: This is all live so so who is this person then

1:04:02 Matt: All right. So he's an academic in North Carolina. And yeah, I'm not sure why he has this insight, but he's written six books on theology and philosophy. So it seems like an actual professor.

1:04:16 Lydia: Interesting.

1:04:17 Matt: Just an an interesting little note he seems to have some insight let's try this

1:04:19 Lydia: Originally out of Santa Clara County, California for any of my Bay Area folks out there.

1:04:21 Thomas: But what's his connection to any of this? What's he, who is this to? What is he trying to do? Subject Epstein again.

1:04:27 Matt: Good

1:04:30 Lydia: Well, okay. So Bobby Capuchi hosted the Jeffrey Epstein show. So I just searched Epstein, which isn't helpful because that's the name of the show. So it's like the very first sentence.

1:04:43 Thomas: Oh, I just wonder, is it somebody who's kind of going after Dershowitz a little bit?

1:04:46 Lydia: I think so. OK, so just kind of scrolling through here. So this is like a full transcript. It's it's 21 pages of conversation.

1:04:58 Lydia: Let's see. Dr. DeLay says, in fact, I'm sure we're going to touch on this as we progress. But I was pretty disappointed to see how few of my colleagues in higher education have really taken the situation on squarely. And I think that unfortunately, the response you might think there should be from faculty and administrators at Harvard and also from MIT, for that matter, just hasn't been forthcoming. And of course, that's disappointing. I will say the petition is designed to call for significant fundamental reform to the donation policies at MIT and Harvard so that so that philanthropy, the sort that Epstein was notorious for, just doesn't creep into higher ed. And yesterday, the petition thankfully really took off. And there's a ton of signatures. Signatures.

1:05:36 Thomas: Should we try to contact this person?

1:05:36 Matt: Job steven yeah it seems pretty cool

1:05:38 Lydia: Yeah, maybe.

1:05:39 Thomas: If they, yeah, because if this was someone trying to actually do something about it, I mean, who knows? Who knows who this is? But so Matt, are these two emails connected? I don't even understand.

1:05:48 Matt: No don't worry about that other one no we can move on yeah yeah I think that was a mistake yeah

1:05:49 Thomas: The other one's just not connected. Okay, that's a relief. But then my question would be, why is this email in the files? So this looks like a professor emailing another professor.

1:06:03 Matt: We don't know who's emailing so uh just yeah but it's great

1:06:04 Thomas: So why would this be in the Epstein files?

1:06:08 Lydia: So for the DOJ to have access to this.

1:06:08 Matt: Question yeah

1:06:08 Thomas: Like, how does the government have it? Is there any yeah but can you give us any insight as to the possible ways that that might happen or

1:06:11 Matt: I don't knows I just thought it was interesting um I mean he obviously would have to have been emailing with somebody whose emails were subpoenaed by the Department of Justice or otherwise made some other device they had access to. I really don't know. I don't have that one.

1:06:29 Lydia: Yeah I mean it could very well be a government employee with this external email thing like that's he he is communicating with someone that is on a very secure network for it to be labeled that way in the subject, right?

1:06:37 Matt: Yeah, that's true.

1:06:43 Thomas: Yeah I mean that could also just be university email or something but huh that's so weird okay but

1:06:48 Lydia: I mean, it could be a state school and so maybe there's like, yeah,

1:06:51 Thomas: With that it's not like that automatically gets funneled to like every email that everybody yeah no I I just I would love more insight from matt as to what the the fuck this could be but I guess it's just hard to know yeah

1:06:53 Lydia: I don't know I'm just coming up with ideas I'm the idea person even

1:07:05 Matt: Yeah again, this is the day it was released and it's really hard to put some of these pieces together. This next one is pretty easy to understand though. So this next one from July 3rd, 2008. And four days later, the first victim filed suit under the Crime Victim Restoration Act. And this is very interesting. This is an an assistant U .S. attorney, unnamed, writing to presumably somebody in their office, although it's full black bars on the from and to line, so we actually can't see.

1:07:08 Thomas: Jesus

1:07:31 Lydia: Length of email address or anything like that yeah yeah hi

1:07:34 Matt: Because the other ones, we can kind of get the idea that it's a Florida U. S. Attorney's office, but I'm guessing this is internal just based on the context here. It's an interesting email.

1:07:44 Lydia: Blank I just got an earful from the last of the victim's lawyers cool an earfull that's a way to characterize that he is a former broward county asa and he represents three victims he says that his clients can name many more victims and wanted to know if if we can get out of the deal. I told him that at this time, assuming that Epstein performs the last piece of the agreement, we are bound. He asked that if there is the slightest hesitation on Epstein's part of completing his performance, that he and his clients be allowed to consult with our office before making a decision.

1:08:00 Thomas: Holy

1:08:15 Matt: So just pause very quickly and remind you, this is July 3rd. He took the plea, I believe on the 30th of June of this year. So this is just days after they take the plea. They're just finding out about this and they're like, right.

1:08:15 Thomas: Shit holy

1:08:25 Lydia: Without notifying the victims. And

1:08:26 Matt: Can he get out of this? Like, cause there's more people that want to talk. Yeah.

1:08:30 Thomas: Shit this thing sucks man we need a I is there been more of an investigation I know there's been stuff like you said acosta was interviewed or something like I just a complete 9 -11 commission on this fucking plea deal? Has there been that?

1:08:33 Matt: So

1:08:33 Lydia: That's and that's the government like saying that.

1:08:46 Matt: There was a DOJ investigation, which found that some of this stuff was borderline, but that none of it crossed the line and then nobody got fired basically. There's a whole report and we can link to, but yeah, no, that's pretty bad. Yeah, but let's look at the next Next paragraph, DOJ internally.

1:09:00 Thomas: Who did that? Did a good DOJ do that? No, I know, but like a Trump DOJ or a Biden DOJ, or like, when was that?

1:09:04 Matt: Great. I think that was 2020, so I think it was under Trump. Yeah.

1:09:13 Thomas: Okay, so that sucks. This is just another thing that we could do if we take back power, is just look into more of this kind of stuff. I don't know.

1:09:23 Lydia: Like maybe not cover up this crap anymore like

1:09:25 Thomas: It's just, this seems weird. Like it just, there's something. Okay, sorry, let's keep going with this one because this is devastating

1:09:31 Lydia: Um I also couldn't remember if I told you about our meeting with the sheriff's office about the jail epstein is out at the stockade not the jail goldberger and some psychiatrists have already met with him and have told him that if he receives any less favorable treatment than others ken star and the whole crew will sue he also told me that epstein was quote brilliant and that he has already offered to teach ged classes I sort of cocked my head at the brilliant comment and said, you know he only has a high school diploma, right? I used my best, quote, don't believe the hype voice. He was clearly shocked, and I explained that Epstein usually claims to have at least a master's degree, but other than a few college courses, he had no education above a high School Diploma, which I think makes him ineligible to teach a GED

1:09:31 Matt: Yeah it's interesting, the details here.

1:10:17 Thomas: What

1:10:17 Lydia: Course. He also told us that Epstein is eligible for work release and will be placed on work release, in direct contradiction to what he told the agents a few months ago.

1:10:26 Thomas: The fuck is happening oh

1:10:28 Matt: Yep, because that's one of the big questions is how he ended up on work release. And so this is just all kind of clipping along the way it was supposed to. Yeah I mean, he's committed a sex offense. I don't know. Goldberger and some Some psychiatrists have already met with him. I guess somebody from the sheriff's office, it sounds like.

1:10:33 Thomas: Ken

1:10:39 Lydia: Who's Goldberger?

1:10:47 Matt: But they're all on this hair trigger because they know what they're saying right here. Ken Starr and the whole crew will sue. If there's the least bit of different treatment, if it looks like he's being discriminated against in there because of who he is and this deal.

1:10:58 Thomas: Star and the whole crew will sue sorry remind me his involvement I can't remember exactly how on

1:10:59 Lydia: So to to counteract that is

1:11:03 Matt: He was on the team. He was very much on the Team.

1:11:04 Lydia: Defense team. Yeah.

1:11:05 Matt: He's not named too much in these. In the new ones, I searched for his name, too. There's nothing too notable, but he was absolutely participating.

1:11:05 Thomas: His legal team okay okay okay

1:11:09 Lydia: Because it's Lefkowitz's partner at the time. Right. Like, you know, legal partner for.

1:11:12 Matt: He was part of the firm.

1:11:14 Lydia: Yeah, but I think what's funny here, too, is like if you know if he receives any less favorable treatment than others, they're going to sue. So let's make sure he doesn't receive any less favorable treatment than others by giving him way more favorable treatment than anybody else could ever expect to see.

1:11:13 Thomas: More favorable treatment well that fits because like we're covering on where there's woke you know christians want to receive the same treatment as others and that means they can do shitty reading uh responses writing assignments and then get people fired and just don't have any accountability and so you do have to treat them better than everybody else for them to even think that it's a neutral entitlement it's just how it works that's weird I have the brilliant thing in the in the high school thing it's well

1:11:50 Matt: All right, I got another, yeah,

1:11:39 Lydia: Their essays. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. And as much as this guy gets it at the end, right? I am also really bothered by the earful from the last of the victim's lawyers. That kind of language there, I just like, really rubs me the wrong way.

1:12:05 Thomas: It depends It depends on if it's, if it depends, like I could see that being, if this person, so this is one U .S. attorney to, and we don't know to who, sending the email to who. So if this is, it wouldn't, would it be Acosta or what, or no, but anyway, presuming that I just don't have the structure of this stuff, Matt, so anything you can offer me on that. But this is a U .s. attorney, assuming they're like not happy with the way this went, I could see it being like, Hey, fuck face.

1:12:19 Matt: But presumably it's somebody in law enforcement. Hard to say, right?

1:12:40 Thomas: I just got an earful from the victim's lawyers because of this bullshit deal you're doing. Yeah.

1:12:44 Matt: This dumbass deal. Yeah, could

1:12:46 Thomas: I could see it in that sense. In which case I could see saying that he

1:12:41 Lydia: That's true yeah yeah yeah

1:12:46 Matt: Be. I will say that the black bar is small enough, it could be Alex. That would fit. That's a short name, whatever it is. So it could say, hi, Alex.

1:12:54 Lydia: Man

1:12:55 Thomas: Is a foreign. So he's saying he got an air earful for the victims only says that the clients can name any important victims. Want to know? Okay.

1:13:02 Matt: Yeah, but this very likely could be Acosta that he's writing, because who else would he be writing up the chain to? And then it says consult with our office before making decisions. So yeah, it Could be.

1:13:11 Lydia: That's just so crazy like that they knowingly did not tell the victims and then there's obviously tons more victims and it's

1:13:21 Thomas: Man, this fucking sucks. It's a real bummer.

1:13:24 Lydia: Like really really disappointing like I think it's you know there are so many things that like shake your confidence in the government obviously trump 2 .0 just in general like as a whole but even back then like like Like, that's just really, really, really disappointing, like, to see this is how our government was approaching the situation.

1:13:45 Matt: Well prepare to be much more disappointed next page uh we've got november 17th so this is now going to be five months after the play deal uh just just so you want to give a little taste of some of this there's so much of this kind of correspondence in here uh start at the bottom at the email at the bottom it'll work out uh so this has left go it's writing to someone in the u .s attorney's office presumably someone who worked closely in the epstein deal and so

1:14:11 Lydia: Sorry. Blank, will you be around Monday or Tuesday before Thanksgiving Day? Jay. Hi, Jay. Sorry. I've been meaning to get back to you. I will be around both days. Do we need to discuss anything related to Mr. Epstein, or is this purely a social visit? I'm going to send out an email to you and roy today on two issues related to mr epstein I

1:14:27 Thomas: Let me guess for

1:14:30 Matt: So Roy Black would be the other defense attorney, one of the other ones. Yeah, but this thing about the social, yeah, check out the response from Lefkowitz up top for

1:14:41 Lydia: Will be seeing jeffrey during my trip and I can certainly update you on him and the various civil cases I am dealing with but primarily I thought we could have a social visit for once huh

1:14:51 Matt: Once.

1:14:51 Thomas: Once. You always want to talk about Jeffrey.

1:14:57 Matt: Jeffrey, yeah.

1:14:59 Thomas: It is like we never talk anymore. We never just talk about us. You and I.

1:14:55 Lydia: Jeff we never get to talk about you and your life life love

1:15:07 Thomas: We ever just have... Yeah. I don't want to confuse people because this isn't a Dershowitz one right or so this is lefkowitz

1:15:11 Lydia: Akin it's

1:15:13 Matt: So, but it's still, it's the same tone though. Yeah, an unknown U .S. attorney, yeah? So, now it's an assistant U .s. attorney. So this would be one of his deputies. But I just wanted to highlight, because again, there's a bunch of stuff like this on the record that's just like chummy.

1:15:14 Lydia: Still funny is

1:15:15 Thomas: And do we think it's a uh acosta again I mean okay assistant okay so that means that he has a personal relationship with also the assistant u .s attorney so is this lefowitz just so connected that that's a big part of this maybe man

1:15:34 Matt: Oh, yeah. I mean, they all probably went to law school or worked in firms together or whatever.

1:15:41 Lydia: He still alive please say he's dead

1:15:42 Matt: It doesn't hurt. Oh yeah, he's still teaching at Columbia as far as I know.

1:15:44 Lydia: Oh columbia of course wow right

1:15:49 Matt: But this is just a really indicative of how the... Because you were asking before, Thomas, how does this happen? This is how this happens. They're friends. They chummy, like I got this guy And you can tell too, when he puts together this team of Ken Starr, Alan Dershowitz, Jay Lefkowitz, Roy Black, these are big names, and they're all coming in. And so this has to be something you take seriously. You have to write back and do this. This is how it works, American justice. Here we are.

1:15:59 Thomas: Drain the fucking swamp yeah yeah

1:16:17 Matt: Yeah, so that's pretty much it. I mean, I also highlighted the weird, probably fake thing that you probably saw, the Larry Nassar thing. We can address that there real quick on the way out.

1:16:26 Thomas: That's a weird one let's pull that up here is that the next one that is bizarre I from what I've seen so far I feel like this isn't real but

1:16:30 Lydia: That's the next line yeah

1:16:28 Matt: We should talk about it. Yeah. It is very strange. It probably isn't. The handwriting is pretty good. And also there's a lot of reasons to think that this is some sort of plant or prank or something, but DOJ for what it's worth in an ex -tweet, this is really weird. DOJ earlier today, excuse me, DOJ on the table recording this had said, we're going to be looking into this to see if it's real, which is very funny because they've been looking at these files since January, right?

1:16:37 Thomas: It seems weird yeah yeah so can we reset and tell everybody what this is the

1:16:59 Matt: So this is a letter allegedly from Jay Epstein at the Manhattan Correctional Facility to Larry Nassar, who is of course, I believe probably is a better idea. I can summarize who Larry Nasser is better than I can, but right?

1:17:10 Lydia: Piece of shit sexual predator who abused abused gymnasts across the United States when they were underage girls and also as they crossed over the 18 threshold or whatever. But yeah, he's a piece of crap.

1:17:12 Thomas: Abuse the gymnast yeah

1:17:12 Matt: So many people. Yeah. So another supervillain of pedophilia.

1:17:23 Thomas: This this can't be real so it's like the idea is this awful sex offender pedophile was like well as I'm about to kill myself better just write my pen pal that's the other notorious sex abuse crime and

1:17:37 Lydia: Yeah. With a Netflix special about him. And yeah. Yeah.

1:17:39 Matt: He was just moved that week apparently. So he's no longer at this address. That's why the envelope there is bounced. And this was found allegedly in the Manhattan Correctional Facility after Epstein died. It had come back and bounced. It takes a couple of days to get it out. And one of the reasons DOJ is saying this isn't real is because there's a Virginia postmark on it. I don't know. I mean, who knows?

1:17:57 Thomas: The postmark is three days after he died but how does that but would that happen based on yeah

1:18:00 Matt: Well, prison takes a while to get things out, potentially. But I mean who knows. I think it's too good to be true, this thing. It's too weird.

1:18:03 Thomas: That's true okay it's dumb yeah but

1:18:11 Matt: And it's to smart. It is written in such a witty way that we know how this this guy writes emails.

1:18:10 Lydia: It's too on the nose. You know, that's. Yeah, yeah.

1:18:18 Matt: I mean, no,

1:18:18 Thomas: Then again like who is writing this then because if it is three three days after the, wait, is it confirmed that it was actually from the prison? Like for sure?

1:18:21 Lydia: Weirdo Redditor.

1:18:29 Matt: I don't think we have confirmed that. I think that it's, yeah.

1:18:30 Thomas: I thought you said the postmark was, oh, okay.

1:18:32 Matt: It's supposed to be Virginia. And then it did come back to the prison because obviously the return address is New York.

1:18:36 Lydia: They just wrote the

1:18:37 Thomas: So if they dropped it, okay if they put it in the Manhattan Correctional J. Epstein, that is, wow, but

1:18:38 Lydia: Return address. Yeah Yeah, I don't buy this. I think it's one of those things that's like,

1:18:39 Matt: So yeah. I don' t know what to make of it. It' s weird.

1:18:46 Thomas: It's still somebody who did something pretty quick though, right? I mean that's somebody who didn't do it, right, so it's not somebody who did this, if it's a fake, it is postmarked from three days after his death right unless that's faked or something but it doesn't seem like they're saying that so that would mean somebody jumped on a prank pretty fast it's

1:18:59 Matt: Right. I th nk so. Yeah. Yeah,

1:19:08 Lydia: Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I'm not, I wouldn't be that surprised with something like that, but

1:19:11 Thomas: It also yeah no it just is weird but it does so I mean the content is gross but I feel like if we've talked about this so I think for listeners and everything we should say what we're talking about

1:19:24 Lydia: Dear LN, as you know by now, I have taken the quote short route home. Good luck. We shared one thing, dot, dot. Our love and caring for young ladies and the hope they'd reach their full potential. Our president also shares our love of young nubile girls when a young beauty walked by he loved to quote grab snatch whereas we ended up snatching grab in the mess halls oh snatching grub in the mess halls of the system life is unfair yours jay epstein yeah

1:19:52 Thomas: Yeah it's grub but fake

1:20:00 Matt: Too perfect. It s too weird.

1:20:01 Thomas: As fuck yeah but

1:20:02 Lydia: I I don't think it's real yeah

1:20:03 Matt: By the way, Trump also likes to blake's young girls like it's just come on what you just they've

1:20:04 Thomas: It's still weird yeah what

1:20:08 Lydia: Yeah it's too on the nose for everything like it yeah it just doesn't feel real um so So color me skeptical right now, and then if the DOJ comes out and they say, yeah, confirmed, this is the guy.

1:20:14 Thomas: A weird thing though yeah yeah like they're gonna do that right

1:20:23 Matt: Said today it's fake uh there's also a fake suicide video um in here because somebody sent it to doj and just asked is this real right so it has to go in the records because it was sent in reference to epstein um so you know just like take some yeah

1:20:32 Thomas: That's something I wanted to clarify because I saw people crying conspiracy theory about that and uh and I get it I get being really skeptical of this doj and all that but that was this is this is one of those like foia type things right where it's I I guess it's a slightly different law governing it, right? But it's like they have to send what they have related to Epstein. And so if somebody sent them a fake AI video and said, is this real? That's going to be part of the stuff they turn over in this effort.

1:21:02 Matt: In the epstein file that's all it takes so

1:21:05 Lydia: And there's nothing in the language of the law itself where they have to, like, indicate whether something is credible or not, like as to what they've turned over. We know that there were, like requirements regarding redactions that they didn't do, but there's something related to that.

1:21:21 Matt: Yeah no it's juste everything has to be turned over as long as it's not with one of the exceptions. So more to come.

1:21:27 Lydia: That's an unfortunate thing too, like in this day and age, because I think like what we see is that people see this as the DOJ releasing things and then they are just quick to believe that it's real. And not having expectations of the DOJ to indicate, you know, like, I don't even know if you would trust that necessarily from this DOJ, but it just, I think is going to create a massive amount of misinformation and anything real we're really really really going to struggle to like to tear that apart and that kind of feels like it's all part of the doj's like hope is that they can just say well that's all fake and so is also this thing about trump but dangerous yeah

1:22:11 Thomas: Well, let's do our final patron thanks and I guess break, even though it's late for that. But and then I want to ask a final question or two, I think. So we've got to thank. Our top patrons, our Hall of Famers, our all -time greats, the very top of the leaderboard. Thank you to The Cincinnati Kid, Bob Loblaw's Law Podcast, Philly Basement Bar is Busy Organizing, Elect Thomas Smith President, American Honky Tonk Bar Association, Balticate, Philip Kaiser, My Ex Broke Up With Me Because When They Got Sick Of Me Singing Wonderwall And Asked Me If I Would Ever Stop, I Said Maybe, Corin Lan, A String Of Unpronounceable Characters, Maleka Chandler, Milo Meadsong is fighting petty tyrants. RhondaTheDork.com. Orders in the court before we report. Big Easy Blasphemy. Chris Waltrip. Fred R. Grotheus. ClassicLibTard. And Mitchell. Thank you so much, top patrons. You're the best. A Merry Christmas and a Happy Holidays and a Merry Epstein Files to you. I don't know. But thank you for your support. And we'll wrap up after this. Yes. So Matt, I guess overall, what I want to make sure we address is like these redactions and their plan to sort of, you know, slowly release stuff. Like where's the rubber going to hit the road in terms of if they're just doing something improper here, which seems like they clearly are, but, but if they'RE doing this badly, if there's still a coverup here, who has recourse? What's what's our recourse, if any? And what's what would happen there?

1:23:05 Lydia: Whoop, whoop. Yeah.

1:23:46 Matt: Yeah, no, that's an important question. Chuck Schumer has said they're going to sue, that the Senate will sue to enforce this, and potentially you can get a court order, which we'll see what that's worth, because again, DOJ has ultimate control over this. The Senate also has inherent contempt power. They are inherently contemptuous, and they can just go after people they think are not complying with the law. So they can try to do that. I think that the right thing at this point would be to try to impeach Pam Bondi just to get her attention. I think maybe that might help because you've got other stuff you can try to impeach her on at this point. Maybe Kash Patel too.

1:24:15 Thomas: I think Massey said he would do that. Right. Or somebody I think there was actually a Republican that said they would dothat.

1:24:18 Matt: Go for it. Yeah. Because,

1:24:22 Lydia: Because Massey and Ro Khanna, you know, they're buds and stuff. And I think they've been kind of locked in on this together.

1:24:25 Matt: Big on this.

1:24:27 Thomas: But I do. My first thought was like, oh, that's great when I saw the headline. And then I'm like, this all still does put attention off of Trump. Like it is still like, Oh, yeah, those DOJ people, they're the ones doing that, you know, and it's like, yeah. Yeah, but also impeach Trump. He's in the, like, he's part of this. And I know they're not going to, but it's okay. But it's all right. Go on.

1:24:48 Matt: No, we've already discussed before in the last few months about how much there is against Bondi already, just in the way that they've handled this open and public, the way they've handled this investigation and the way they've protected Trump and potentially protected EpsteIn and the interests of anybody else who might be covered up here. So yeah, no, I think there's plenty of room for several different directions and they should just try them all because there's more to come. And I wanted to mention to you when we were talking about that at the end of the last segment there, I keep seeing people reposting things and I've done it in a couple of places today when things we've been talking about, I have mentioned things and we looked at a couple things that have not come out within this last few days, but have come out very recently that I want to make sure that we saw that were still in this release. But most of this stuff was stuff that came out within the last couple of days. But people are starting to to learn more and more about things that have been around for a while, like the Jane Doe civil suit. And people are posting an excerpt from the complaint in a lot of these different cases. And they'll post an excerpt from the point and be like, oh my God, can you believe these facts,

1:25:41 Matt: These new things that are coming out? And again, those are complaints. You have to take that with legal literacy. You have to approach and understand that there's a good chance of stuff in those complaints are true, but they're not verified fact. They're not findings from a court in the same way that you could say the things are actually facts. So just to look for as these things go forward, I'm particularly interested in seeing more about the finances because I still don't think anything else about that has come out. Hoping we get some more internal communications, some more emails. There's going to be so much more. I mean, there's an estimate that there's probably something like maybe 15 % of everything's been released at this point. And yeah, who knows?

1:26:15 Thomas: Well, and the takeaway so far, not really much in the way of Trump, but the deal and the people involved in that, that's so far. That's like the, to me, from what you're presenting, the thing that really comes across. And I wonder how much more there is about that.

1:26:15 Lydia: Crazy.

1:26:31 Thomas: Do you, yeah.

1:26:28 Lydia: Yeah. And that he had the audacity, like, to keep calling it, like a terrible deal. That Epstein, like thought it was a bad deal for him.

1:26:35 Matt: He was so unhappy with it because

1:26:39 Lydia: Am god

1:26:38 Thomas: Work in the refs.

1:26:39 Matt: He had to do time. He didn't want to do any time or anything that looked like time. Yeah, I had something else. But I

1:26:47 Thomas: And And I guess I understand, given that the prosecution was essentially taking a tone that like, hey, we're really sorry. This is an inconvenience to you. Yeah, well, maybe then he doesn't feel like he got a good deal, you know, whereas if you had actually pursued this in the way that you would with any other fucking criminal, which is like, hey, man, you're lucky to even be in these talks right now. We could just throw your ass in jail. We just convict you of really bad stuff. Then maybe you would have felt differently, but they, they just really treated him with such privilege. It's just, it's just astonishing.

1:27:17 Lydia: In a just world I would want to see Alex Acosta disbarred like I feel like this is really really really bad um and disgusting and he was not serving his clients he was serving the other person yeah

1:27:24 Thomas: This is crazy. Yeah.

1:27:35 Matt: Think about the other side of the spectrum here with Kilmer Obrega -Garcia, who they slandered terribly, called him a gang member, at one point tried to suggest that he was some kind of pedophile himself, which is ridiculous. And

1:27:46 Thomas: Well, maybe if, if he was, maybe you'd treat him better.

1:27:49 Matt: Exactly, right. He should have thought of that. But they sent him down to this torture prison for a couple months and then found a federal charge to bring him back on. So they didn't have to actually admit they'd made a mistake. They made up this human trafficking thing. You think his lawyers are getting these kinds of emails and this kind of chumminess? Of course. I mean, this is just the absolute opposite. But that, of course, is an undocumented Salvadoran immigrant who's seeking asylum.

1:27:59 Lydia: Crazy

1:28:07 Thomas: Yep. Committing the crime of being non-white, you know, absolutely

1:28:11 Matt: And you just have to be friends with Les Wexner and have a billion dollars and the biggest house in New York. And these are the lawyers you can afford, and this is the justice you get. That's right. I'm with you.

1:28:12 Lydia: Happy

1:28:19 Thomas: Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. Well, thanks for taking us through that, Matt. Thanks, Lydia. And thanks listeners for listening and supporting. We really appreciate you and have amazing, happy holidays.

1:28:30 Lydia: Holidays holidays!

1:28:31 Thomas: And we'll, we'll keep, we'll probably be doing more on this because there's so much more to come out, as Matt said. So we'll see you soon.

1:28:41 Clip: This has been Opening Arguments, produced by Thomas and Lydia Smith, with editing help from Peter Baird. The intro is by Thomas Smith. This outro is by Matt Cameron. Support the show at patreon .com slash law. Contact us through Patreon or openarguments at gmail .com. Make sure to follow our blue sky at OpenArgs. But most of all, please share the show. Thanks for listening.