Lively v. Baldoni 49 - The Biggest Telling on Themselves Yet

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:01 Clip: All rise. Court is now in session. Court is reconvened. I may be seated. Maintain order. The federal rise to face the jury and harken to its verdicts.

0:00:25 Thomas: Gavel in, gavelinos. It's gavel time. I think I've kind of settled on that as the default. That doesn't mean I'm never going to change it, but I think it's a comforting... I should like gavel in gavelino. It'll be fun.

0:00:36 Lydia: I like it too.

0:00:37 Thomas: I'll probably forget about it next week. Anyway, I'm Thomas. Gavel heads, that's true. GaVEL heads, gaVEL in, everybody. It'S gaVEL time. GaVel heads, gAVELinos, and

0:00:39 Lydia: We don't call them gavel heads, though. Gavel heads.

0:00:49 Thomas: Various gavels... something.

0:00:51 Lydia: Gavel, yeah. GaVEL variations.

0:00:51 Thomas: I need another form of that. Like another conjugation. GaVEliAMos. Gavel, nosotros gaviliamos, gavel folks. Yeah. Non -gender gavel folks. I'm Thomas. That's Lydia. How are you doing?

0:00:59 Lydia: GaVEL folks. GaVEl. Hello, I am excited. I think this might be the one.

0:01:09 Thomas: The thing that I've been waiting since, you know, part one of this sub chunk, this is the biggest telling on themselves in the whole thing. It's this episode, folks. I verified, I made sure. I thought for a second I was going to be wrong and it would be funny, but no, it's in this episode. I can't wait.

0:01:23 Lydia: He rolled the tape to confirm. Yep, it's here.

0:01:25 Thomas: Yep. Roll the tape. That is what I did. And I can not wait for you to hear this. It is so bad. They are so stupid. They are so, they are so up their own asses that they don't realize that when they're providing evidence that they think is good for them, it's actually bad for them.

0:01:28 Lydia: How bad is it? And they don't seem to like get it ever. It continues over and over and over again. Like you keep thinking like, oh, maybe this is the time that they'll get it. But they continue to do that kind of stuff to this day.

0:01:50 Thomas: And I think it fits so much with the whole, like, he told Colleen Hoover the news. And this is somewhat from information we found out subsequently, but this was a dinner of Justin Baldoni and another woman who we think works with Colleen, but either way, point was, this was them getting to Colleen first with their story. And it wasn't just Baldoni. I thought it was, but it was actually Baldoni and Heath. And for that to happen, and then Colleen Hoover to come away from that and be like, fuck these guys. The only reason I bring it up again is that's just so fitting. It's so emblematic of them being entitled and clueless.

0:02:26 Thomas: Like they think everything they do is great. And if they just, you know, can explain a little more, you'll see why they're great. And it's just like, no. To that point, in the later half of this episode, we're going to get the worst version of that. It is so bad. I cannot believe it. It's one of those things where like, after this, I'm like, God, I want to go post this on the other sub. Like, just like, there's no excusing this. This is one of Those things in this episode, you're going to get that there's just no excuse for it. There's no version of this. That's fine. There you go. No spin. You can put on it. All you can do if you are on Baldoni side, and this is pretend it doesn't exist or rage about how I'm actually fucking Ryan Reynolds or something. There is no actual way to respond to this. Sometimes these things are like, okay, I need to make a bit of an argument on this. And there's a lot that's interpretation. Like there's plenty of these things where there's an interpretation that could go Justin's way. There's plenty of things. The key is though, once you see a million of those and then a bunch of things that are inarguable, it's like, oh, okay. Loses possible deniability. And then the house of cards kind

0:03:33 Thomas: Of falls but this is one of those things that is just there's no there's no excuses it's like plain as day so I'm excited to get to that you will have that in your arsenal of reasons why Baldoni fucking sucks from here on out and let's see anything else to talk about Lydia's hungry we covered that in another intro for a different show tying the universes together and I'm gonna request that they don't because that would be unless we know you unless you're someone we know.

0:03:52 Lydia: Man, I am hungry. I'm going to ask our listeners here if anyone can bring me food. I've just got to keep keep visiting all the shows until someone brings me food yeah it might be a little invasive

0:04:08 Thomas: It would be a little weird. I mean, shoot us a DM first. Yeah, shoot. I'm just saying don't show up unannounced. Shoot us a GM that's like, hey, I've got this pot roasts. I say pot roast because it's a funny word, but we're vegetarians. I've Got This Nut Loaf. Time all together. Nut loaf. Vegan nut loaf here. We're not vegans, but you know. Anyway, Anyway, point is, Lydia's hungry and I'm hungry for gavels. So we need to gavel, gavel heads. Let's take our break. And that's where I say the patrons have heard this. The patrons knew Lydia was hungry weeks before the normies knew.

0:04:09 Lydia: Well I'm kind of inviting them yeah oh yeah tell me what you're bringing and then it better not be a pot roast yeah nut loaf yep we do need to gavel when it actually could have been solved and all you normies see

0:04:48 Thomas: Yeah, and now she's dead. Thanks to you who don't pledge. You happy? In memory, in memoriam, Lydia Smith.

0:04:53 Lydia: What you've done r .i .p yeah oh

0:04:58 Thomas: Yeah, no, patrons get stuff early and they don't have to hear ads. And they're the best. They're just the best, so join their ranks. Patreon .com slash gavel pod. We'll take our break and get to it.

0:05:15 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:05:15 Thomas: Does Jamie have a PGA credit? What the fuck did he do?

0:05:17 Lydia: They are yes he does he'd be the president of wayfair

0:05:22 Thomas: Yeah, okay, cool. So I like how you read this paragraph that's like, Both Baldoni and Heath did not feel that her work warranted a PGA mark, a distinction highly valued and taken seriously within the industry. As Heath had already noted in his email, they didn't feel it right to misrepresent her contributions in order for her to get a PGA mark. Heath had learned from Sony that Lively was extremely displeased with this response and told Sony that as a result of the men not submitting the letter, any goodwill left was now gone. Yeah. Okay. First off, I like this idea that this is this coveted thing, a high distinction. Meanwhile, Heath has it for the, you know, contributions of sexually harassing people on set and showing them films of his wife giving birth. You know, like what, what the fuck did he do? That's like that much different or better than what Blake did with

0:06:05 Lydia: All I can think of you know like looking at the pga eligibility when you get those produced by credits and and you get that pga mark all I kan think of is maybe like under production overseeing daily operations consulting with and resolving issues raised by the key physical production and creative staff and liaising with financial studio and or distribution partners like he was the primary person interfacing with sony as they're getting those things figured out he's the one that's being tagged no pun intended with all of those things

0:06:35 Thomas: Stuff asking them to stop getting in the way.

0:06:37 Lydia: Yeah pretty much but I like I mean

0:06:38 Thomas: I see what you mean but but it's not some like incredible either creative or like irreplaceable effort that you know like she arranged an exclusive song for the fucking thing give her the pga for that alone

0:06:48 Lydia: Yeah well yeah and I'm not saying that because that's how jamie has his that means that blake shouldn't also get one I'm Not saying that at all but I can understand why he has a pga mark on here just from like yeah he's like the the nuts and bolts I guess of the operation

0:07:02 Thomas: Yeah I wasn't necessarily arguing that he shouldn't have it's just like I'm saying if he has it and we know what he did which is like not special then why shouldn't she get it I guess is the point I'm making and note even in their own documents lively was extremely displeased with this response and told sony that as a result of the men not submitting the letter. Any goodwill left is now gone. That doesn't say, and now she's threatened to pull out of the promo. And now she'S threatened to go to the New York times. And now she doesn't Say anything. Any Goodwill left was now gone, you

0:07:27 Lydia: Yeah that's what I want nothing to do with you guys

0:07:35 Thomas: Could get rid of all of the dispute and everything that one transaction could stand on its own. Like it could truly be that like, like pretend we live in an alternate reality where everything was totally fine, but Blake had done these things and felt she deserved this credit and rightly or wrongly felt she deserved the credit. She asked for it and Wayfarer's like, no, that's a, you don't deserve that. I feel like a response of, wow, well, any goodwill left between us is now gone. It's like that works even without any of the other contexts. So like my point is this isn't, again, it's not indicative of some extreme strong arming, extortion, blackmail. You wouldn't even know anything else was happening based on that response, right?

0:07:36 Lydia: Anymore yeah yeah

0:08:19 Thomas: Stupid.

0:08:19 Lydia: No absolutely so simultaneous to this producer tussle I guess we're continuing on with our marketing journey and we have a span of time from this timeline june 20th to 24th able baldoni's publicist emails sony's marketing team to inquire about a content shoot that lively Lively, seemingly coordinated with Maximum Effort, Ryan Reynolds' production company. Now, they're bringing this up because they want to start pulling Ryan Reynolds into this more, right? It's been a while since we've heard from him in this whole saga. Sony, at the time of the initial outreach by Abel, was not aware of the plans for the shoot, which were planned for the following days, June 27th to 28th. Later, Sony attested to the fact that Lively and Maximum Effort were, quote, running the show. Abel was understandably concerned at the optics of the entire cast doing a content shoot without the director and co -lead being present. This would later be something that the public would take notice of as well and heightened the rumors and negative press that Lively would take issue with. So we do get some proof here, I guess. This is from Jen Abel, two folks at Sony and Cece to someone at Jonesworks. She is still working at Joneswork. Yes.

0:09:26 Thomas: Quick conspiracy theory. What if that's because it's redacted? We've got Jen Abel, but then we've got redact it at jonesworks .com. What ifthat's Steph Jones? And they're like, they've already made the claim that she wasn't doing anything or whatever. So they're just like, yeah, maybe that's maybe that'S not it could just be the other person on the account or whatever, that's probably what it is.

0:09:34 Lydia: Yep. Oh, yeah. Black it out. Yeah. Morning. Quick question for you both. I'm I'm hearing through the grapevine that Blake is having her agent and other producers, I .e. redacted, reach out to the reps of the other cast members for an IEWU event she is putting together next week, dot, dot. Just want to get ahead of this. Is this something official for the film that is being organized or something more private that Blake has been doing? Do you guys know about this at all? I don't want to make a stir about it or let people know that we slash JB team knows about it. So just wanted to keep it between us. Let me know when you can. Thanks. Sony responds. We just heard about that, too. And then this part's red underlined she wants to tape more content with some of the actors we can keep you posted when we know more jen abel responds again okay if it's something that's going to be used in an official way on socials etc for the film then we need to find a way to include justin we can't have fans guessing as to why he isn't in this kind of stuff

0:10:36 Lydia: Thank you looks like no response the following morning jen able responds again me again just checking in to see if you've heard anything else about this is it happening on monday or when just want to make sure that we stay on top top of this and can put together some content ideas for JB to also be included so it's less apparent that he's not physically there with the cast dot dot dot keep me posted please really appreciate it

0:10:36 Thomas: Again we've said it from the beginning it feels a little hostile and I don't know it feels pretty harsh to ban or exclude Justin from the stuff on the other hand we don't even know all of what Blake has gone through at this point and Blake and others by the way including her sister Jenny Slade and all that stuff and so this sounds like PR for Justin working in their yeah doing their job working in Their Interest to try to get him included in more stuff to not make it obvious that he's not being included and sony either truthfully or or they're just trying to manage this conflict to saying oh we don't know we're not sure about anything I don't really see what this is you know like what oh there is a running the show

0:11:17 Lydia: Doing their job yep yep right I don't see anywhere about the running the show you know indicating anything about where like oh they do say

0:11:41 Thomas: Yeah yeah why don't we go down to that but but just in terms of this being like I don' t know again I don'T know what this proves this shows that either sony's telling the truth and they weren't necessarily doing like extra content shoot I don''t know or they' re managing him and it's just again it's more proof that you weren't invited to the party it's like yeah man that's how much everyone didn't want you there right

0:11:59 Lydia: That yeah yeah I think it is one of those things because again now it's been several weeks where he's been by his own admission cut cut out of the movie and not involved in the post -production elements of it, where Sony, like you said, maybe they are needing to manage this situation, not necessarily divulge too much because again, they're speaking to his PR people and they're not lying, but they're probably keeping some things close to the vest. It does not sound like they're upset about anything at all.

0:12:32 Thomas: Right now go to the email that that I was just talking about bottom of page 90

0:12:37 Lydia: This is from Sony to Jen Abel, redacted at JonesWorks, and another individual at Sony. Hi, nice to see you too. For the screenings, will you just let us know when you have each journos avails for the latest they could see it? And then we can try to get other folks into that screening as well. So getting ready for that press junket.

0:12:54 Thomas: Well and it also sounds like it could be something that justin's pr is trying to work on to get you know when you're like trying to ask someone for stuff you're trying to bring something to it you know maybe like oh hey we've got this uh we're ranging with these journalists uh for the screening anyway uh is Is there more content than can we get Justin in on? You know, PR firm doing their job.

0:13:14 Lydia: Try and like bait them into responding back. Yeah.

0:13:17 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, that's how I interpret this. Don't know that that means it's what it is, but it's what it seems like to me.

0:13:23 Lydia: And then it continues. And this is a red rectangle around this section, folks. So listen up. Listen up.

0:13:27 Thomas: Red, we got a red rectangle, everybody.

0:13:30 Lydia: For the content, Blake and Maximum Effort are really running the show. Okay, got it. We know it's Thursday and Friday, but Blake has been talking to Talent and Maximум Effort is leading the planning. I'm not flying out for it either.

0:13:41 Thomas: Okay, so on one hand, I could see in good faith taking this argument. If you said to anyone, hey, Blake has now taken over the film and she and she's this maximum effort, which you're telling me is Ryan Reynolds company. They're now doing the promotional stuff for the movie that might seem prima facie like does seem a little weird what I want everyone to keep in mind is no one is more interested I think probably no one ist more interested in this film doing well than sony millions and millions of dollars of investment they are in charge of the distribution and this is sony not just one person at sony sony plus cc another person like we can tell that like thought has gone into this saying well blake and Maximum Effort are running the show on this particular thing. And it's only one particular thing, at least in this email, which is just like some little shoots that they're going to do. Who knows what it is? I feel like if Sony's comfortable with that and it's their million bazillion dollar investment, and it'S not as though Blake has dirt on Sony, you know, she doesn't have like Sony sexually harassed me or whatever.

0:14:45 Thomas: Maybe Maximum Effect is doing a good job. Maybe they did a good pitch. Maybe who knows? You know, it might even be like really inexpensive stuff. I you know who knows yep those are good

0:14:56 Lydia: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if you've seen, like, the Mint Mobile ads and stuff. Like, Ryan Reynolds, he has smart people who work for him that know marketing. Like, they're not stupid. But I think you're right that this is Steph Jones because then if I'm following up in this email thread, the next one reads to me like your boss is chiming in because you're not getting anywhere and they're trying to like up the stakes a little bit because it says if you – no, no, no, if you scroll up, right, because we have to go reverse order.

0:15:18 Thomas: Wait what's the next one I don't even I see texts next oh up oh they got me on that

0:15:25 Lydia: Yeah. So if you scrolling up, page 90, but now we're in the middle, it says, you know, responding to the screenings. Yes, for screenings, we're working on the latest dates, blah, blah. With the content is sony supporting these efforts and will you use materials from the events are they running any of the ideas by the sony teams or is maximum effort totally off on their own island with this again we just really want to ensure justin is being included where possible supporting the film thanks comma redacted I'm sure it says steph I'm surer it says stef

0:15:26 Thomas: Again oh it is pretty short who was the dude that ended up inheriting yeah

0:15:55 Lydia: Matthew mitchell I think is his name that does not read like this reads to me like someone in charge yeah yeah that this is more her

0:15:58 Thomas: It does read like stephanie honestly yeah it is who knows but

0:16:03 Lydia: Vibe and then yeah and then they don't get a response and so So then Jen kind of tacks onto that. Can we be connected to maximum effort? Who are they exactly?

0:16:10 Thomas: Yeah they didn't even know yeah

0:16:11 Lydia: We cannot have some cast doing content and the rest not being included. We will need to find another way for JB to participate in this. And we need Sony support here. So this is definitely like a freak out moment right now, I think, for Jen Abel and Steph, I think, potentially at Jen's Works.

0:16:26 Thomas: Also keep in mind this is hollywood I'm sure that this is very part for the course when you have every celebrity, every actor, actress, whatever has got their team that wants their person to be in the best light and to be included in the most thing. You know, who knows how much of this is completely ordinary and to the point where I'm sure Sony and executives at Sony have dealt with this shit before. They're probably making decisions based on what they think is best for the bottom line. I don't see any evidence here that anything untoward is happening in terms of Blake influencing them to hire Ryan Reynolds company for a bunch of money to do that. Like, it just seems like Sony trusts Blake to be doing this and trust Maximum Effort to be doing this.

0:17:06 Lydia: And it's a thing they don't have to worry about. Just cross it off their list and someone else is going to run the show. That's what you want. You want to be able to delegate.

0:17:12 Thomas: And it might be, again, a very minor thing. Like, we don't even know what this isn't like. Oh, they're doing the international trailer for the movie that we know. It seems like these might be little promo thingies here and there.

0:17:23 Lydia: Here's the other reason why I think it's Steph Jones, because if you scroll into the thanks and then the part that's redacted, there's a little tiny curve on top of that black redaction. You see that? That's an S. That's a S, baby.

0:17:25 Thomas: I love I already love this. Yeah. That's very interesting.

0:17:37 Lydia: Yeah. Steph, I see you. Yeah, exactly.

0:17:38 Thomas: So she's working hard for her client. Yeah. So it's funny that the complaint skips all this. I mean, again, we don't know if it like goes backwards later. We'll see, but it skips to all of this. And there's an interesting thing here right after that. I think, I think it's, why don't you just read the next stuff? Cause I think It's interesting here.

0:17:55 Lydia: June 25th.

0:17:56 Thomas: Mm -hmm. What are you talking about? You haven't demonstrated any of this yeah fearing what she was capable of

0:17:57 Lydia: While contemplating the PGA letter and fearing what Lively was capable of. Fearing.

0:18:05 Lydia: Well, because she's a, you know, she's wanted by the FBI for trafficking a film across state lines. So, you Know, it's scary. Heath reached out to Lively via text in order to humanize the situation. Jack off motion.

0:18:17 Thomas: Interesting well and also might be very violative or whatever like if if if she has said she doesn't want to be talking to the sexual harassers this feels like it could be really bad to me but we'll

0:18:24 Lydia: Yeah. Right. Yeah. It had been months since Lively had spoken to Baldoni or Heath directly. I wonder why. As she insisted, as

0:18:33 Thomas: See well you're gonna find out why with the rest of this

0:18:39 Lydia: She insisted at each turn that she needed an intermediary.

0:18:40 Thomas: Sentence they put in their own document my ex -wife is like she has a restraining order against me and And like, I shouldn't be there, but like, come on. Like she got a restraining order.

0:18:52 Lydia: I just need to talk

0:18:53 Thomas: Like I'm just trying to talk to her and the police are here or whatever. And like can you believe that she's doing that?

0:18:53 Lydia: To her about it. Yeah. Crazy.

0:19:00 Thomas: It's like you put in your own document. She insisted that she needed an intermediary. Why? That's weird. Why did she do that? Yeah.

0:19:07 Lydia: And it had been that way for months too. Like this is not something new. And so he goes or they go on, this time was no different as she refused to get on a call.

0:19:15 Thomas: Yeah. So in so many words, the person still doesn't want to talk to you and you are violating that request. Okay. Yeah.

0:19:17 Lydia: Sounds like boundaries. Yep. Heath, feeling that she was unwilling to even hear them out regarding the PGA mark and their position, again conceded and agreed to write the letter recommending Lively for a PGA Mark. So they've just decided that her Her being like, I don't want to talk to you directly, like, you know the deal, means that they weren't going to get anywhere on, like this discussion if a PGA mark is appropriate or not.

0:19:42 Thomas: That's entirely them being psychic.

0:19:45 Lydia: And it sounds like it's entirely the same approach where they never gave constructive criticism. They never pushed back. They never said no, you Know, along all these steps on the way. And she's supposed to magically just know that they're actually not OK with something and then adjust accordingly. Like, it sounds Like it's another opportunity.

0:20:02 Thomas: Well they do she does know that they're not okay with the pga mark that's why there's the you know any goodwill is gone so I think that's again I don't know if she's not going to get on a call because it's just heath gonna fucking bullshit about how she doesn't deserve a pga mark or whatever and she just doesn't care but then again they're just imagining well also she probably had a gun to my child's head I don'T I DON'T didn't see it but like probably so we agreed to this it's like what they're even in their own thing they're like without any word at all from From Blake. That's why they have to put in the fearing what Lively was capable of, because there's nothing, there's nothing here except them being like, well, let's see what it is. You could read the text message here.

0:20:40 Lydia: From Jamie. Hi, Blake. I hope you are well. I wanted to write a note acknowledging the challenging times we all have found ourselves in and how it has undoubtedly affected many decisions. One being the requested letter to the PGA. In the midst of it all, so many of the conversations have been had with third parties. I do understand why. However, I believe it could be helpful if you and I had a direct conversation in effort to find a path through this. I'm adding in, you know, like little missing words. We could have blank and whomever else you'd like to join as well. Well, hopefully this can be an opportunity to simply consult and see if it could lead to a potential change of thought. Honestly, Blake, I'm reaching out with a spirit of optimism. Please let me know if you're open to having a Zoom today. Thank you, Jamie. She responds about four hours later, it looks like. Hey, Jamie, feel free to send through anything you'd like to say here. I hope you're well, Blake. And then he responds. Thankyou for your response, Blake I respect your decision to not have a call. No problem at all. To be fully transparent, parent, it was indeed a tough call to receive when asked to write a letter to the PGA. I do believe you can understand to some extent why that might be. However, we do want to be fair -minded and just to all parties. The truth is, you are incredible in the movie, your performance is spectacular, and I hope that you get all the glory you deserve for it. Also, you have certainly added a great deal to the movie beyond the acting role itself. There is no denying that. With that said, I have consulted further with Justin, and as a result, he and I have both agreed to write the the letter please let me know to whom we should send moving forward I will continue to respect the process of communication through your designated reps but I felt compelled to reach out directly for this looking forward to the movie being a success for everyone involved jamie blake responds thank you jamie I appreciate you both acknowledging the work you can send the letters to me here or via email and I'll pass along to the people I'm speaking with at the pga I'll let them know now that your letters are incoming so if he had a problem with this pga thing he never put it to her like he said he wanted to talk about it because

0:22:31 Thomas: Yeah, he said they've had the conversations through other people. So I guess he's just, who knows? We haven't seen all those or maybe we have. And it's just that thing that was like, any goodwill is gone. I don't know. You know, like we don't knows. We don't how much they've communicated, but it's also weird to be like, you can imagine why we wouldn't want that. And it's like can we imagine why he wouldn't want that I don't really know why that would be necessarily yeah

0:22:50 Lydia: I just feel like she's basically saying, hey, I'm not going to have a call with you, but feel free to, you know, text me whatever you need to text me. And in response, he says, we think you should get the PGA. Like, that's just such an odd.

0:23:04 Thomas: Well he's they are trying in desperation a last gasp effort to get on her good side or at least jamie is I mean it's kind of weird for justin to not even who like that's kind of like they're really on the outs her and justin this feels to me like hey let's try to kiss ass a bit here and see if we can get back on her good side and blake is sticking to her guns And I can see, absent context, how that could look cold, I guess. And I think it's fuel for people who hate women to be like, that absolute bitch. But like, yeah,

0:23:35 Lydia: That's exactly it, because there aren't exclamation points or emojis. If that came from a man, like that response, it'd be like, oh, you know, very professional.

0:23:41 Thomas: I think that's right. I think you're expecting, for one, the sexist expectation should be that this woman is just, wow, she's got the approval of a man. Amazing. This should be like this moment where the men are saying, you know what, kid, you do deserve it. And she should be, like, oh, my God, it's all I've ever wanted. Amazing. But keep in mind, we're talking about Jamie fucking Heath. In terms of gatekeepers, again, we went through it. He did stuff. I'm not saying he did nothing, but like she has run circles around these clowns and her career has run astronomical circles around These Clowns. And they're just clowns.

0:24:17 Thomas: This is probably been somewhat demeaning to be like, no, the clowns who who get to make that decision are like, you don't deserve it. And then they're like hey I've talked to justin and I talked him into you deserving this thing and I don't know how much of this is about that or how much it is about the sexual harassment I who knows but either way she maintains her business -like approach he's violating her wishes by contacting her directly by the way and she says thank you send the letters

0:24:48 Lydia: But do you think like because I know that they say like in order to humanize the situation, like, are you thinking that this is more like let's get on her good side because but then there's elements of the way that they phrase this but they're still contemplating the pga letter and that because she's refusing to get on a call he felt that she was unwilling to even hear them out that makes me feel like about the contemplation of the pGA again conceded and agreed to write the letter it feels like if you truly are having a problem with that and even the waythat he's presenting it here I don't

0:24:56 Thomas: Here yeah yeah I feel like they could have been trying to use this as leverage to get something and it It didn't

0:25:25 Lydia: Know yeah it could Could be. Could be, and it didn't work.

0:25:27 Thomas: Work and she stuck to her guns. And then maybe they thought like, okay, let's just as maybe Jamie thought, I feel like it wasn't Justin. I feel Like it was Jamie probably was like, Hey man, this doesn't matter really. So let's try to just do this and say that, Oh, the conversation is game of telephone. We weren't really, I don't know, something and see if it works to get, to get on her good side again. And he shoots a shot and it doesn't work.

0:25:55 Lydia: Yeah, I think the other interesting part here, too, is that, you know, I think the way that this had been characterized a lot online was Jamie's, like, forced to write this letter to the PGA for something she doesn't even deserve, et cetera, et zebra. But what we learn about this here is that Blake is in conversations with people at the PTA directly anyway, so she's probably had conversations with them about, like, you know, this is, I mean, not like a job interview, but like, well, we'll just like, you know, here are the ways.

0:26:15 Thomas: Hmm oh like how normal this is or how yeah no in terms of her contributions yeah yeah

0:26:25 Lydia: Yeah, like, like here's how I contributed, you know, like like this film was a really interesting process for me, like creatively and on the post production side in ways that I was really happy to explore, blah, blah. And then they're going to say, OK, well we need letters confirming that those things did occur, you know for their records and to finally like, you know like sign it up.

0:26:41 Thomas: Exactly this is yeah this is so funny

0:26:43 Lydia: It's just it's so silly. It's so silly.

0:26:51 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:26:51 Thomas: You got to read okay read the read the paragraph june

0:26:54 Lydia: After many conversations and once again feeling trapped, Baldoni and Heath write a letter of recommendation to the PGA on behalf of Lively and send a copy to Lively to submit to the PGA. Heath simultaneously wrote a letter to his attorneys deriding the extortion by Lively.

0:27:09 Thomas: 26 in their own fucking documents they're two -faced pieces of shit so their own documents in their own documents we don't get any threats from blake we don'T get any evidence of blake extorting them then we don't get any of that in their own fucking document none of that what we do get is him being like well she had a restraining order but I thought like she got to hear me out

0:27:18 Lydia: No. Just saying I'm not going to get on a Zoom with you. Yeah, right.

0:27:30 Thomas: And then her being like okay say what you want to say and him being like well we've thought it over you did such a good job you deserve it and then he he writes a letter and writes this a letter to the attorneys which we've already come across before so I kind of remembered it was coming that's like hey this This is against our, it's totally, we're a gun to our head right now. I'm blinking in Morse code to say, I don't agree with this. Like, what a two -faced piece of shit.

0:27:47 Lydia: Yeah yeah I think it's so funny to like to send this to your legal team which is you know just the one person at Wayfair but maybe she has people who work for her but It's really funny because it's like, do you think the PGA, like they're going to come after you for like fraud or something because of this letter that you wrote them? You know, like, why are you involving your legal team? Do you think you're going get sued because of This from the Producers Guild?

0:28:11 Thomas: Yeah, that's interesting. Why don't we read, I know we've done it before, but I think with all this context, why don't you read what he wrote, what two -face piece of shithead wrote.

0:28:25 Lydia: Hi, everyone, which there's one redaction. I don't know, but maybe they or maybe. Oh, yeah. Maybe it's a group like Wayfair Legal at Wayfairy dot whatever.

0:28:26 Thomas: Everyone. That's interesting, that doesn't sound like the, it could be a group or something, maybe, but it's weird to address them as everyone.

0:28:36 Lydia: Everyone. I'm writing to you all. All right, fine. There's more than one person regarding a letter that I wrote on behalf of Justin and myself addressed to the producers guild as you know we received a request to write a recommendation on behalf of blake for her to receive the pga mark this was a request that we feel was unreasonable and cold -hearted no no

0:28:52 Thomas: Cold -hearted? Does it take away something from them? Like is is there some credit system where like oh well he gets five pga points if he's the only one but now that she's getting one they have to split the

0:28:58 Lydia: There's no like limit no I guess it's just like this ego thing where they think everyone that views that they're going to be like oh well they're not the only ones with pga which means that blake probably made more of this movie than they

0:29:11 Thomas: Points yeah what's the cold -hearted thing yeah

0:29:17 Lydia: Did you know like they don't get get as much credit in the mind of the audience but but no one no one is watching a movie and being like let me evaluate the pga marks here

0:29:23 Thomas: No they don't give a shit

0:29:24 Lydia: No essentially the movie it ends with us has been taken unjustly from justin as a director and essentially from wayfarers control due to the extortion of blake god without going into all the details of the events

0:29:37 Thomas: Because we don't have any of the proof or

0:29:40 Lydia: Yeah this honestly feels like something might happen in the future and I'm going to write this email to our legal team yeah to to start that paper trail.

0:29:44 Thomas: Anything yeah documenting it it's like them recognizing like boy this is this so sure looks like we just thought she deserved it and did it so I better like write in my diary that it's it's under duress

0:29:53 Lydia: We might need this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Without going into all the details of the events that have transpired over the months, Justin and I ended up agreeing to write the letter due to feeling trapped. She continues to hold a threat over our heads, and every time we try and hold a line, what line? You never try and holding a line ever. She uses that threat either directly or indirectly to get us to fold.

0:30:14 Thomas: Weird where's the direct one you sure would think that would be in your documents that is all the proof of the thing

0:30:18 Lydia: Yeah the receipts. Make no mistake, I am not suggesting that we were literally forced to acquiesce, but given the high profile of the movie the partnership with sony the amount of money invested and the need to complete the movie we have written the letter on her behalf omitting the truth of how and why she was able to contribute in the ways we listed there is nothing to do with this letter now it only serves as a way to memorialize why the letter was sent in the first place should we ever need to explain it thank you jamie and yeah I guess you did need to expand it because you got sued

0:30:34 Thomas: Interesting now I imagine they already had conversations or something with the with the legal team before this but I do wish that this was just apropos of nothing and the legal team was like hey what the

0:30:59 Lydia: Yeah yeah we're gonna need more details yeah

0:31:02 Thomas: Fuck are you are you being extorted do you need to call the police like what do you what do you mean extortion that's a serious thing what are you talking about so funny so we got we're still not to July

0:31:07 Lydia: Crazy oh but we get the maximum effort content shoot so we get to see what that that is.

0:31:17 Thomas: Yeah how much really do you think this do you think this was like a multi -billion dollar contract for Ryan's company to do some Instagram posts I would find it hard to believe I don't know I don'T think that any of that stuff matters just a little stuff about the Instagram shoots that Justin was included in now we've caught back up to the complaint in July we're on July I would say the good news is if you look at the pages of the complaint I would in fact don't look at the pages if the complaint because that's too depressing but if you look at the pages of the timeline we're getting we're dangerously close to two -thirds sort of so that's good in the narrative we get some stuff from the editors that we kind of already know but it's like wow they're not letting me review it now it's funny as we get again by his own admission I have not seen the locked cut of the film evidently it's been worked on more and she's been mixing I'm getting to give notes as a studio today, not a director.

0:31:42 Lydia: All right. We're almost. Yeah, okay. All right.

0:32:09 Lydia: I've not seen the locked cut of the film. So he is seeing stuff. Oh, yeah, the final mix. So yeah, so he is seeing the film, there's a particular version, I guess he's not seeing and then he is supposed to be offering notes as Wayfair Studio and not as director Justin Baldoni, which yeah, I get it. I get switching hats.

0:32:13 Thomas: I mean, this is fucking crazy. It is absolutely crazy that he has lost control of this film this much.

0:32:33 Lydia: But yeah, yeah.

0:32:33 Thomas: I don't know how to explain that. Like it doesn't make any sense in his story and it doesn't make any sense on any level. You could have just said, no, what were you so afraid of? It doesn'T makes any sense. Or is it that Sony was not happy with him or is somebody else not? Like, it just feels like we're missing something.

0:32:51 Thomas: Like, it doesn 'NT makes sense. Like the technicality of getting to offer notes as a studio, but not a director. I don't even know what that would.

0:32:57 Lydia: I'm telling you like to get essentially banned from the lot lot, like not allowed to be on the lot, that is not something that is normal. There is, I feel like, something missing. Could just be how he interfaced with Sony about all of the issues that Sony was like, you're done because we're not dealing with you anymore. But I don't know.

0:33:02 Thomas: Yeah. Fucking weird. Yeah, something. But also, so I guess maybe it could be that since Wayfair has some sort of different contractual arrangement, they like can't budge on that because they have this like contractual right. Whereas I guess as the director, you wouldn't have a contractual, right?

0:33:30 Lydia: Well, or if there is, maybe there's something that makes you lose that right, something that Sony feels like he violated a particular clause and so he is not allowed to have that anymore.

0:33:34 Thomas: Hmm. I guess. Huh? Yeah. It's just weird. I can't explain it. I do not believe his story because again, Again, we've never, if there was anything, I've said this so many times, I'm going to say it again. If there was the slightest hint of Blake saying, you know, again, what's that New York Times? Like anything, anything, it would be in here.

0:33:57 Thomas: There's just nothing. Is she like the greatest like godfather mafia boss ever? She leaves nothing in writing. There's not even, here's the thing. It's one thing to be like, oh, well, she wouldn't write her extortion. Okay. There's not a single email of Wayfair to Sony or any other two people who know about it ever saying, holy shit, can you believe Blake threatened to go to the New York Times if he didn't do nothing?

0:34:20 Lydia: Or we need to talk now. Like there's nothing Nothing like that.

0:34:22 Thomas: Yeah, we've just been threatened. All there is is like narrative saying, well, we were so afraid. And there's been like emails or messages of Justin to like the editor saying like she's she's taken over. But there's no zero documented evidence at all of these supposed threats, the supposed extortion. I just it's so fucking weak. There's not even anything that could be construed as that. It's so weak.

0:34:47 Lydia: Let me just chime in really fast on some of the sentences here that we didn't get in the timeline. But again, think about what we went over in the Timeline. Did we get evidence of this? Despite unanimous recognition of the absurdity and the unmistakably extortionate threats, Sony and other parties, despite being adamant not to support Lively's demand for the unentitled mark, ultimately acquiesced and submitted letters of support.

0:35:07 Thomas: Weird. Do you have any proof of that at all?

0:35:10 Lydia: Nope. Nope.

0:35:12 Thomas: Despite being adamant, they're not just like, seems kind of weird. They're adamant to not support, but then they ultimately submitted letters. Why?

0:35:19 Lydia: That is so crazy.

0:35:20 Thomas: Because she was going to go to Megan Toohey about them as well. So fucking stupid. I don't believe you. This is not true.

0:35:28 Thomas: So I think we should pick up on the timeline on this July 2nd entry. This ist kind of interesting. Might be follow up to the maximum effort thing so why don't you read this keeping in mind that we had jen able asking who is maximum effort hold

0:35:42 Lydia: On a Zoom video conference between Wayfair and Sony Marketing, Wayfairy learned that Sony had been dealing with extensive notes and revisions to the marketing plan as a result of the content shoot. Because Sony ended up hiring Reynolds' company, Maximum Effort, to produce the promotional content for the film, the cost for the shoot significantly increased due to their fee being higher than what Sony had originally budgeted.

0:36:04 Thomas: On does wayfarer have some say over sony's

0:36:07 Lydia: No. Sony gets to do what it wants.

0:36:08 Thomas: Budget does yeah does like what that I just think you're lying sorry we're really concerned with the bottom line for fucking the sony corporation we're just really we just think it's so unfair that they had to put a meaningless amount of money towards something.

0:36:23 Lydia: Oh, yeah, I hear some more sob story coming here too. Notably, this charge was despite Lively's claim in a January 2023 text to Baldoni that Maximum Effort would, quote, work free for the family, as shown below. Yeah, things were a lot different in January 2023, by the way.

0:36:25 Thomas: Let's keep going. Yeah. Yeah, not only that is that sounds like you know who Maximum Effort is then. Seems kind of weird. I know it's Jen Abel. Was she making a rhetorical point? Like who are there anyway or something? You know, like was she playing dumb then? Because this is 2023. All right. Keep reading. This is so funny.

0:36:54 Lydia: Despite ultimately approving this, Wayfair was told that Sony was not allowed direct access to the footage, which they had paid for. This shoot included the cast baking cookies, floral arrangements, ironing patches on jeans, and other quirky ideas that completely missed the point of the movie, skirting the issue of domestic violence entirely to the detriment of all those involved. As noted in the email, quote, Sony did not have much opportunity to be involved in the shoot.

0:37:18 Thomas: Wait, wait a minute. What? Okay. We got Sony hiring Reynolds Company. Sony. And then we have notably this charge was despite Lively's claim to Baldoni the maximum effort would work free for the family okay does that mean they'd work free first sony's benefit too so sony hired them seems like a different entity then we get some weird confusing things here despite ultimately approving this but why would why would wafer approve it if sony fired them right I mean

0:37:46 Lydia: It's weird, too, because, like, when you look at the text messages underneath, so Blake says to Justin, Max Effort is on board to help as much or as little as you want. Let me know we have a great group over there who can help supplement and do the work that sony won't so we can just hand it to them between our collective resources and then I'm skipping an unimportant kid text that justin sends and then he says I'm going to push to hire max effort and justin doesn't work for sony so wayfarer would then be hiring maximum effort I think at

0:38:09 Thomas: Like at this point in 2023 yeah

0:38:12 Lydia: That point yeah and then blake says but all is led by me ryan and blank so we'll make sure to weed out any lame ideas they don't need to hire it's me and ryan in blank we work for free for the family it's mafia style on this is what she says so when things were good they were basically saying max effort can step in and help if sony doesn't want to pay for something that we really believe in we'll just we'll do it for free and then it's them working with wayfair that obviously did not happen and sony hired maximum

0:38:41 Thomas: Yeah or one way or the other I don't know why but it's weird to say despite ultimately legitimately approving this. And then they say Wayfair was told that Sony was not allowed direct access to the footage, which they had paid for, which I guess we're to believe is Sony.

0:38:45 Lydia: Effort yeah I think it's that sony paid for that shoot and then they were not allowed direct access

0:39:00 Thomas: Like that doesn't, I don't believe that. Yeah.

0:39:00 Lydia: Which there's there's no way and also I don't see sony complaining about it they probably were like again delegating we don't need to see it continue like just go ahead and take care of

0:39:09 Thomas: The only thing I can think of is if this did get any backlash, you know, was that them washing their hands of it or something? Like, did it get backlash for being like, you know once the internet machine had started hating, but maybe we're not, I guess we're Not to August yet.

0:39:28 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:39:28 Thomas: Welp. That's where we're leaving it. And I, I, that the more I think about the more, I know we're maybe at this point tripling down on it, but the more I think, oh no, we haven't gotten to really do our second victory lap around this, right? Because we referenced the fact that after editing this, I sent you a message and you all capsed me.

0:39:44 Lydia: It yeah yeah yeah I did all caps

0:39:48 Thomas: I thought you turned into a different person or like a Donald Trump tweet or something. Not, not in content, but just in, you know, in how it looked. It was, it was alarming. I'll just say like it was, it was alarming, but warranted. This guy put, they put in their own document, hey, put the time where I decided this B word isn't listening to me, even though she has told me I'm not to contact her. I decided she wasn't hearing me out. So I did that. I contacted her and tried to bullshit her demonstrably in my own document, I said, hey, you deserve the PGA thing. You deserve it. You're so great.

0:39:52 Lydia: You yeah stylistically it's not I don't normally type like that you're right yeah thank you mm -hmm yep yeah

0:40:30 Thomas: And then in the next like page is like, and anyway, oh shit, I, and then the next page, and this might be in the episode, but we already know this happened. In the next moment, he's writing a letter to his like legal team saying, hey I'm, I'm a hostage. I don't mean this. She doesn't deserve it in their own documents.

0:40:48 Thomas: This, we didn't have to cross-reference this. This wasn't a secret document release. We didn't go do discovery on them and find this. They did it.

0:40:55 Lydia: It's their own timeline line. Yeah, I think like what's crazy to me is like this idea that I know what's going to make me look good from the perspective of, you know, the audience consuming this thing where I've been accused of sexually harassing a woman. I'm going to offer proof of the time when she clearly expressed boundaries and I decided to violate those.

0:41:16 Thomas: I'm accused of boundary violation. Oh yeah. Well, there was this one time where I violated her boundaries in black and white. It's clear as day that I'm offering you.

0:41:22 Lydia: Yeah. But see, but see, I'm innocent. Right.

0:41:25 Thomas: But that's why in the beginning of the episode, I was talking about the Colleen Hoover dinner, because that's why I gravitate toward this stuff. I really like trying things out of my reality machine of my brain and figuring out what is real and what isn't. It's just a fun, satisfying thing because I think a lot of people are extraordinarily bad at it. I think humans are really good at just believing what they want to believe. And it's very easy if you are a sexist or for whatever reason want to be on Baldoni's side to read his stuff and just take it and be like, wow, yeah, wow. Look at that. Wow. Yeah. But what I like doing is putting it in my fucking virtual reality machine in my brain, thinking through what actually would happen, what, you you know, like who was involved in what conversation and it's not, obviously no one's perfect at that, but like that's what it takes when you have ambiguous information and when you have so much information, it's often we're just overwhelmed with information while simultaneously not having all of it. It's just a fun puzzle to be like, hmm, which of these worlds makes more sense? Because it's all about probability. It'S all about statistics, you know? Because it's like human behavior is crazy. It can be confusing. And so there may be the odd text text message. There may be, and I'm not even talking about this. I'm talking about all this stuff. You know, every time we look at something like this or do a little bit of a debunk or an investigation of something, there may be the odd bit of evidence that's like, Ooh, that's weird. But the thing is, it's like well, does that mean we're in this world where this would happen 80 % of the time? Or does that means we're this world over here where that would happen 5 % of the time and we just happen to get a weird thing? You know what I mean? Like that's kind of how I think of things. And again, it is not perfect, but the more evidence you have, the more it starts to be pretty reliable because just statistically speaking, like it's kind of hard to mislead from reality for that long. Cause if you get so many different bits of evidence, there's going to be so many ways that it concords or whatever with the real world. All this is an elaborate way of saying what fits so much better with all the evidence is these fucking numb nuts think that everything they do is good. And for them to put in their own document, you don't understand this This woman wasn't listening to me. Like they literally put the sexist reasoning of,

0:43:28 Thomas: I felt like she wasn't hearing me. So I violated the thing where she said, don't contact her. It's like, do you hear yourself? And that fits so well with, with whatever must've happened at that dinner with Colleen Hoover, where they got first crack at it. They got first crack at poisoning the well. And, and no, cause, cause when you think you're so right that you could post this in your document and people are going to agree with you, that's when you say it's almost like like the racist, not knowing they're racist and saying super racist things. I mean, what, what? Don't we all think that, you know, like it's almost like that. It just fits so much better. It all meshes together. And it's like, yeah, that's the world we live in. It doesn't mean that everything Blake did was right. Everything they did was wrong. That's not what I'm saying, but it does mean that the overwhelming impression and the overwhelming conclusion of all this evidence together is these guys suck, broadly speaking. And then there's going to be little parts here and there that are misunderstandings. There's going to be, you know, and stuff spiraled. And

0:43:45 Lydia: It did not go well. Right? Yeah, of course.

0:44:24 Thomas: I am sympathetic to that somewhat. Like sometimes it's like when you get on the wrong side of a situation, a social situation or whatever, things can spiral because naturally each side has to like gird their loins, so to speak, in their minds, you know, they kind of have to double down on themselves and start viewing the other side in a bad light. And I'm sympathetic to that, but there's still just like the reality there that when you are the ones who who created a shitty unsafe work environment that's sort of on you to figure out you got to solve that yeah

0:44:52 Lydia: And I think we can have a nuanced conversation about that too, right? Like, I think that's perfectly reasonable. And we're all human beings. And everybody's capable of making mistakes and things like that. And we don't always make great choices when we're navigating out of mistakes. And I think this is just kind of a perfect example of that.

0:45:08 Thomas: And his whole thesis the whole thing that he was like she isn't listening to me and I think you pointed this out the whole salvo the whole think that he's ready to to violate her wishes and contacting her in order to say was well you could see how when you ask for the pga thing given all that's happened we hated it you know like it wasn't even like anything thing. Yeah. And that, that, I don't like, look, I don't know for sure what he's talking about there. I don'T like, it could be, it could be a number of things, but what it seems like is that he and his mind thinks that she's also aware that she stole the whole thing and it was a plot, you know? And so it's him being like, yeah, you know, that rubbed us the wrong way since you stole the movie and you're horrible or something. Like it kind of comes across that way to some degree. Otherwise, I DON'T really know what he'S talking about. Like, what is he, what is he talking about there? Like, why should she realize that that rubbed them the wrong way? Because what it looks like to me is somebody who did some work that probably deserves this thing. And even if you disagree, there's no reason that would rub you the wrong away. What does that, what does that mean to you? What does dat cost you?

0:45:26 Lydia: Yeah rubbed us the wrong way yeah yeah yeah mm-hmm right exactly you don't have a limited number of pga opportunities on your film where you're taking it from somebody else in order to give it to Blake Lively right yeah that's

0:46:18 Thomas: Yeah. The only message there is because we fucking hate you and don't like what you did, you know? And to think, and like, fine, they can do you that. But to think that that's the appeal that's going to work to her. Like, you don't understand. We fucking don't like everything about you. And so you could see why we hated this. But tell you what, kid, you earned it.

0:46:39 Thomas: And then to write your lawyers. I was under duress. Like it's just so fucking ridiculous. So I just, I can't. So that's why Lydia was in all caps.

0:46:39 Lydia: So weird, yeah

0:46:49 Thomas: And it really is like contacting someone, especially a woman in that way, who's complained about this kind of thing is just telling on yourself so hard and posting it in your evidence. Unbelievable.

0:46:48 Lydia: Yeah

0:47:01 Thomas: Well, we are down to, believe it or not, our final mini chunk of this mini chunk for this catching up on the November chunks.

0:47:00 Lydia: All right we're getting there There.

0:47:10 Thomas: Is the statute of limitations passed on the chunk word? Am I allowed to say chunk? I think the statute of limitations is passed.

0:47:15 Lydia: It was just one episode.

0:47:17 Thomas: There's a couple. I think we laid off for an episode or two.

0:47:19 Lydia: T-R-E-E. Yeah. Yeah.

0:47:20 Thomas: TR eats. So next episode, we will cover the final of the November chunks and then we will be on to a special bonus episode after that and then we'll be back to the chunks to more chunks and we're getting through it and I'm again I have a renewed energy for this case hoping we get on it sooner than last time I know we say that all the time but this time I mean it especially because the holidays later in the month that kind of got us in November but we're gonna try to be better prepared in December and so that's next episode thanks for listening everybody we'll see you next time

0:47:44 Lydia: Gotta get ahead of that. Jack off motion.

0:48:13 Thomas: Lydia is hungry