Epstein files reveal he was BFFs with Steve Bannon and offered him USE OF THE ISLAND. and his house.

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:08 Thomas: And welcome to opening arguments this is we don't know what this is called this is part two of our emergency epstein file release episodes uh this is wow this one we saved weirdly we saved everything for part two this is where we had some amuse douches in part one it was one long amuse is douche in part one and part two is uh the the main douche course I think ill douche douche I'm Thomas that's real-life immigration attorney Matt Cameron how you doing matt

0:00:39 Matt: Serving up a big plate of douche for everybody. Yeah, it's a lot. There's just so much evil in these emails. It's just evil.

0:00:45 Lydia: Gross hello

0:00:46 Thomas: Yep yep and lydia smith how are you doing today

0:00:50 Lydia: I am reluctantly here but I'm here and yeah we're gonna get into it so oh

0:00:57 Thomas: Uh matt little preview what can we expect in the main douch course here

0:01:02 Matt: We're going to pick up where we left off, talk a little bit about Michael Wolff. But I think for me, the big revelation from all of this, from everything I've seen so far was how tight Jeffrey Epstein was with Steve Bannon. We knew that they had some kind of relationship, but they're very friendly. We are also going to hit one of your favorites, it's Lawrence Krauss. We've got some real scummy stuff from him.

0:01:21 Lydia: Man

0:01:22 Thomas: Well we kind of figured out that the lawrence krauss thing must have been what he was talking about with his friend I mean yeah what was it ken star giving the recommendation he's like hey I hear you have a piece of shit in your life is getting canceled yeah

0:01:23 Lydia: With Ken Starr yeah yeah for Jed here's another piece of shit that I'd like to introduce you to

0:01:38 Thomas: Shit meets shit yeah canceled I was gonna say that about the steve bannon and and epstein like that's like you know in a horror movie when there's like two big bads and they just for some reason are like like drawn on to each other or whatever. It's like that. They're just like, yeah, they just like have to, they're like, oh, oof, I'm feeling a giant evil presence.

0:01:52 Matt: Jason and Freddie. Yeah, totally.

0:01:54 Lydia: There's like a tingle in my pants right now for you like that's how I'm picturing it

0:02:02 Thomas: Gross.

0:02:02 Matt: Pretty much. Pretty much.

0:02:04 Thomas: Lydia took that in a different direction.

0:02:04 Lydia: I'm sorry I just that's that's how they probably are together or were

0:02:08 Thomas: This is a, uh, this is a family program about a pedophile rings. Okay. Okay. Let's keep it above board here.

0:02:14 Lydia: Hey at least at least steve bannon is over 18 okay so like I'm connecting two two over 18 people together. Yeah, I know. This is not for kids.

0:02:20 Thomas: Gross. Oh, man. Oh man. This is, yeah, there's a lot here. Also, I can't believe what Matt just told me before we started recording about Bannon in particular. I'm not going to spoil it, but the level of hypocrisy and bullshit with Bannon is perhaps even further than you might predict even given how shitty steve bannon is I can't wait

0:02:48 Lydia: Bannon. Yeah. Even given Bannon?

0:02:49 Matt: It turns out maybe you can't trust Steve Bannon. That might be a takeaway from this. Yeah. Who knew? Who knew.

0:02:55 Thomas: Well what's weird is you can either ultra trust him or not because like sometimes for well a lot of times he's just plain telling us the evil plans you know like a lot of times it's like he'll be like yeah so we're flooding the zone with shit we're just uh we're fascists we're gonna put everything out there

0:03:09 Lydia: Tune into his show on Rumble. He just lays it all out. Yeah.

0:03:11 Thomas: I don't know it's like, it's almost like he's kind of like reliable in a way. Like he just says like, he's going to do the evil plan. And then you're like, Hey, should we care about this? And everyone's like, and then they do the Evil Plan.

0:03:19 Lydia: Yeah and everyone else gaslights

0:03:23 Thomas: And he's like.

0:03:23 Lydia: You and yeah. Yeah.

0:03:23 Thomas: Oh, how did, how do we not see it coming? So anyway, it'S kind of a weird duality of Steve Bannon there, but we're going to take our first break and then we'll get into it with, uh, starting with the Michael Wolff ones we left off with on Matt's very nice slideshow presentation that I've learned new technology in order to present. So we'll take this quick break and we'll get to it okay this first one is do we have here oh

0:03:51 Matt: Note the date, first of all, 10 -29 -2016. So we're just a few days before the election. And this is from Michael Wolff, who, as we discussed last time, not exactly a journalist. I've read a couple of his books about Trump because they're very entertaining, but he's a tabloid kind of hanger on. And he spent a long time talking to Epstein. He's got hours of tapes with him. And we're going to talk a little bit about him. He was very much trying to play both sides with Trump and Epstein here, but this is Wolff offering... This is something obviously a journalist would never actually do, an actual journalist, as you can read what he has to say here.

0:04:25 Lydia: All right. This is from Michael Wolff. There's an opportunity to come forward this week and talk about Trump in such a way that could garner you great sympathy and help finish him. Interested?

0:04:37 Matt: I don't even know what this is about, but you're offering great sympathy to Jeffrey Epstein. Again, many, many years when people know who he is, and an opportunity to finish Trump. So let's go on to the next one. Just wanted to get a little taste there.

0:04:49 Thomas: That's like a real monkey's paw situation where it's like you can take out trump but great sympathy for the world's worst fucking person jeffrey epstein monkey's you know know whatever that

0:05:04 Matt: This next one is from the year before, just so you can see kind of the extent of these communications.

0:05:06 Lydia: Interesting. From Wolff to Epstein. I think you should let him hang himself. If he says he hasn't been on the plane or to the House, then that gives you a valuable PR and political currency. You can hang him in a way that potentially generates a positive benefit for you. Or if it really looks like he could win, you could save him generating a debt. Of course, it is possible that when asked, he'll say Jeffrey is a great guy and has gotten a raw deal and is a victim of political correctness, which is to be outlawed in a Trump regime.

0:05:33 Thomas: Is what he said isn't it oh this one's going back a little bit right 12 16 15 wow let's

0:05:39 Lydia: Fifteen. Yeah yeah.

0:05:38 Matt: This is 2015. Yeah. Yeah So I'm just showing the relationship here. And then, right,

0:05:43 Lydia: And I guess this is like Like, this is sparked because Michael Wolff says that CNN was going to ask Trump in an interview about his relationship with Epstein and Epstein kind of saying, like, well, what what do you think he should say if you were to put together the answer?

0:05:52 Matt: If we were to craft an answer for him, I mean, just the degree of control over that, you know, You know, like the idea that you might be able to help to craft an answer for Donald Trump about his relationship with a child sex trafficker. But this both sides playing that Wolf is doing here, it's really gross.

0:06:15 Matt: It really says a lot about how he does things. Then we have another one from 2019, you might have seen about this one, but I had to include it because this is just. Bad this

0:06:22 Thomas: I do like by the way matt I do appreciate that you're taking us on a tour of the like somewhat lesser known but it's like you still have to like it's It's like when you go to the show and they're playing the B -sides and they still got to play like the hit, you know, they're still going to play that one. So we're playing the hit still as well. Let me, let me get this on here. All right. What do we have here?

0:06:29 Matt: Hit the highlights right sure of course yeah

0:06:39 Lydia: Yeah. So this is January 31st, 2019 from Epstein to Wolff this time. So we've seen Wolff to Epstein mostly. And he says, blank worked at Mar-a-Lago. She was the one that accused Prince Andrew. Trump said he asked me to resign. Never remember ever. Of course, he knew about the girls as he asked Ghislaine to stop. And then please note, but I don't know if that's actually to his signature or if he wrote that.

0:07:03 Matt: That's the standard disclaimer stuff yeah yeah sure sure yeah

0:07:06 Thomas: And we should know, I don't think you said it, but I assume the highlighting is from you searching the database, right, Matt? Or are these actually highlighted words that were in the records?

0:07:13 Matt: Uh no we're not highlighted

0:07:15 Thomas: That's probably important to say for the viewers.

0:07:15 Matt: This way yeah wolf has defended himself and and said that it's normal to ingratiate yourself to sources this way and to talk this way to people I don't think so I'm not a professional journalist but I just don't think this is normal, this kind of communication they're having.

0:07:28 Lydia: Interesting. So that's been his comment in response to these emails becoming public. Is that that's what he's saying? Yeah.

0:07:34 Matt: You got to say something.

0:07:37 Lydia: Well, of course. But like, interesting,

0:07:36 Thomas: I disagree none of this is normal I mean

0:07:39 Matt: No, like giving him direct advice about how to play it. Yeah. This was just in the Atlantic the other day where he was commenting on this. But yeah, this is obviously about Virginia Jufri, who comes up a lot in these, the one who accused Andrew. The reason that Andrew is no longer Prince Andrew is because of her brief testimony. But there's some interesting honesty here in this. You know, there's another place where Epstein insists repeatedly that Bill Clinton has never, and he puts in caps, never been to the island, which is especially relevant because now the Trump administration is saying they're going to investigate Bill Clinton specifically because we got to do something with these emails.

0:08:17 Thomas: That bleat that I saw really does capture it where someone was like it would be the peak of irony if actually bill clinton was a total boy scout and all this and it's fucking ken star was the one who's a piece of shit like god I wish we could go back to the 90s and just just tell everybody just like ken star sucks man And like the thing, it's always been hard because not like Bill Clinton is great. He's not. And still, you know, it'S like you can't you the religious nutjobs who are also hypocrites and shitty in their quest to take down Bill Clinton, even though there was some bad stuff about Bill Clinton. Like, it 'S just, yeah, it''s all a mess. That whole thing sucks on all sides.

0:08:58 Matt: But it's interesting because I tend to believe Epstein when he says things like this. Like, I was never a member. I mean, it would be easy enough to prove or not. And I'm willing to believe that Bill Clinton never was actually on the island. He was on the flight logs, but it doesn't seem like he actually went to the island.

0:09:10 Thomas: Saw Epstein with a bag of golf clubs. Clubs so I don't know if that's just a social club but no I guess it's just a social Club but is that the one where it was like almost a Mandela effect where what didn't we somewhat recently within like a year find out that there isn't a golf course at Mar -a -Lago or whatever like it just it's one of those things that everybody assumed or at least I did like yeah like Trump golf yeah and you always see pictures of him golfing and associated like there's it's Doral is like nearby or something like that maybe and so like I just just a hundred percent assumed Mar-a-Lago was a golf, like golf, private golf club or whatever. And it's not the weirdest

0:09:27 Lydia: That people just because trump golfing and clubs yeah oh huh it's

0:09:32 Matt: And he owns other golf clubs. And

0:09:49 Thomas: Thing. It's still, it's still like Berenstain bears to me. I can't believe it, but it's, you know, yeah.

0:09:49 Lydia: Just yeah just for great gatsby themed parties I guess during a government shutdown down

0:09:56 Thomas: It was just for paying money. If you're a foreign leader, paying money to, for memberships to influence Trump.

0:10:03 Lydia: Crazy

0:10:03 Matt: Since I mentioned it, I should say we didn't get to talk about it last time, the fact that Trump has announced that Pam Bondi is going to be opening an investigation into Bill Clinton and other people named in this. We should talk about that quickly because obviously the entire purpose of that is to make sure that we never see any of it. So that's an open investigation throughout the Trump administration. That's why they're doing it.

0:10:19 Thomas: So I think you're, you're under, let me, let me sell this for you a bit, Matt, because you told me this and it was pretty pretty mind blowing. So I thought that was the usual. So, so the headline is essentially what Trump tells Bondi, which by the way, once again, just reminding you of a certain tarmac and and a certain Bill Clinton. Uh, Loretta Lynch. Is that who? Yeah. Like he just orders the attorney general to do stuff. And that's just normal now. Right. I mean, that's how it goes.

0:10:45 Thomas: Okay. So orders publicly ordered, not like we uncovered an email. It almost probably people would react more if we found an email of it, but now they just does it in the open. Okay, just totally outright, right completely something that used to be not allowed at all um it's just it's it's embarrassing to the nation that this is what it is and so he tells bondy well look in this look into this whole epstein thing and this epstein fellow that I'm hearing about look into him vis -a -vis democrats like related to democrats and

0:10:44 Matt: In public. Yeah, just doing it. Right. Totally.

0:10:47 Lydia: It's his justice department right yeah right oh

0:11:16 Thomas: I thought that was the usual just darvo or whatever just like the every accusation is I thought it was just that usual stuff but then you were saying there's a actually a pretty devious, you bad guy genius reason that they're doing this. So what's that?

0:11:30 Matt: Yeah, well, as soon as he opens an investigation, we don't get to see the files, because everything relating to Epstein, you know, pretty much is going to be an open and active FBI investigation, and DOJ investigation. So they can just drag that as long as they want. And they've got a good reason. And I, you short of, and again, we talked about it on Friday, but short of impeachment, which we all know about impeachment, and that's a political process. It's very unlikely. But I just want to remind everybody that Kash Patel can be impeached, Pam Bobbitt can be impeachment, Donald Trump can be impeached. These are options. And maybe the pressure will build, I don't know. But when they're clearly doing it for the correct purpose, yeah.

0:11:39 Lydia: Question though is it is it active and open now or is this kind of like a race to try and just dump everything out before they open up this investigation that they threatened to open up okay

0:12:16 Matt: Yeah, it sounds like they're trying to open it as quickly as possible. So maybe we should get moving on that. There's supposed to be a vote.

0:12:20 Lydia: So but congress could like beat them to it kind of thing

0:12:22 Thomas: Well, also, I mean, does that apply to like, because I know there's all kinds of exceptions for like Congress and the ways they can sometimes release stuff and not get in trouble for it. How does that interact with that, man?

0:12:34 Matt: Trying to subpoena everything from DOJ and they're just trying to get everything released. So DOJ refuses to turn it over.

0:12:40 Thomas: So they could hold on to the DOJ ones and not release it to congress they don't already have all those okay but then so yeah I was gonna say so the estate ones though is that a different story so maybe congress already got a hold of that or something or is that through was that through doj as well right

0:12:44 Matt: They don't have everything. They have the estate.

0:12:57 Matt: There's more estate stuff to come for sure because that subpoeno request, I took a look at it. It's huge. There was a lot of stuff. And we're being told that the emails we're looking at are maybe 1 % or 2 % of his emails. So I'd certainly love to see more.

0:13:07 Thomas: So the question is sorry was that a subpoena from doj or from the house from

0:13:08 Lydia: But it but it went directly to congress right okay

0:13:10 Matt: From Congress. That was from the house. Yeah, from Oversight.

0:13:12 Thomas: Congress okay so that we should theoretically still they should be able to get that right and they could could they could release and it wouldn't this whole investigation thing wouldn't impact that oh

0:13:22 Matt: The Epstein -Fowles Transparency Act, which is kind of what we're hoping in the end game here, would require DOJ Jay to publish all unclassified records, obviously redacted to protect victims, but relating to Ghislaine Maxwell, flight logs, travel records, individuals named and referenced, including government officials, in parentheses, in connection with the investigation and prosecution of Jeffrey Epstein. And they're permitted to withhold certain information, such as the personal information of victims and materials that would jeopardize an active federal investigation. So obviously Trump saw that and said, hey, let's just get a federal active investigation going because there hasn't been one. And they actually closed out an active federal investigation of Epstein's finances because nobody wanted to see that apparently back in July. Yeah. So we got that going again. Yeah, so at the moment, yeah, yeah. But that is the easiest and most corrupt way to do this would be to open up a broad ranging investigation of everybody who isn't Trump. That seems to be what they want to try to do. Yeah.

0:14:02 Thomas: So there so you're saying there is no investigation so those we could get then or theoretically congress could release cool cool

0:14:21 Lydia: DOJ could intervene though. Couldn't they with like the estate, um. The subpoenas, the sub -subpoena to the estate and that stuff getting to Congress. Couldn't, they file something to intervene. And I'm just guessing right now based off of like my, my thought of the law.

0:14:31 Matt: If it compromised, that's a good point.

0:14:33 Lydia: Like, um I, I mean, I don' know. No, I think if they're if

0:14:31 Thomas: Cool that's interesting could they that's a separation of powers thing right so if that'd be interesting interesting

0:14:40 Lydia: Say it's related to like their active investigation and like appeal to a judge that like, hey, this is problematic right now. Like, can we stay this?

0:14:46 Matt: It's possible.

0:14:47 Lydia: I don't know.

0:14:47 Matt: It's possible they could certainly

0:14:49 Lydia: I'm just here brainstorming

0:14:49 Matt: Say it would compromise something.

0:14:50 Thomas: So if so well

0:14:51 Lydia: Ideas for the DOJ to keep getting away with stuff. Sorry.

0:14:53 Thomas: So well this is an interesting constitutional question right matt so if if congress has subpoenaed somebody for records and that's just like a private citizen and they're not national security anything I guess and doj says we're actively investigating that can't that doesn't affect that does it can they by

0:14:53 Matt: It could work. It could. I could see that blocking the subpoena because a congressional subpoenas can still be challenged in court. I mean, you certainly could come in as a third burden.

0:15:22 Thomas: By doj so like wouldn't wouldn't that be be, like, wouldn't that have a separation of powers issues though? If it's like the executive branch is saying, no, you don't get to have this power. That'd be interesting. I don't know. That seems weird to me. I mean, you're the lawyer, but so tell me, but, huh.

0:15:34 Matt: Strange. After what a judge decided. Well, it's a pretty unusual situation. I don't think it happens very often then.

0:15:40 Thomas: That's true. We don't have a lot of precedent for like the DOJ being weaponized in order to interfere with something. But I just know like, it's not as though Congress is necessarily when they subpoena something that's not them saying we're releasing this to the public right I mean they can subpoena stuff that stays private or whatever stays it's kind of yeah so I don't that's interesting all right well we'll pin in that I guess because that could I mean sounds like from what you're describing that could matter oh

0:16:00 Lydia: Confidential. Yeah?

0:16:06 Matt: Keep a watch. Talk a little bit about Steve Bannon. And we had to do a little detective work here to figure some of this out because the senders are redacted in a lot of these. And there's been a lot speculation in the next email we're going to look at about who Ms. Miller is. The initial thought was this might be Stephen Miller, which would be too good to be true, but it's not. Stephen Miller as far as we know is not implicated at all in the Epstein files. He's implicated in plenty of other things, so don't worry about that. But this, from what we we can tell when you add up the context of all this, Steve Bannon was in touch with Jeffrey Epstein a lot, a lot. And like in a very chummy way. And before we get to this email, actually, we should watch the trailer for the documentary that he put out.

0:16:51 Matt: Now he has about 16 hours of recordings of interviews with Jeffrey Epstein. The original purpose of this recording as sold to Jeffrey Epstein was to help rehabilitate him. And instead now, he put out a documentary, or at least a trailer for a documentary with the word monster in the title. So you can see where that went after Epstein died for

0:17:12 Thomas: This is the trailer marked epstein trailer okay so what you you're telling me is Steve Bannon was gonna like put out okay let's see let's see let'S see how this looks here oh

0:17:14 Matt: The movie we haven't seen yet. Yeah. It hasn't come out yet. Yeah. See what it came out to.

0:17:26 Clip: I convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein inside a New York City jail. We were underage. We were little girls. By the time I was 16, I brought him up to 75 girls. He was glib, and he lived essentially like he was Gatsby. He was an absolutely terrifying person to encounter. You own an island. Right. Thank you very much. Two islands. The islands of Dr. Moreau? Correct. Jeffrey Epstine was a billionaire New York businessman whose vast wealth brought an arrogance that knew no limits. He acted as if he could have anything he craved. Reporting, the FBI is now looking into how it can interview Britain's Prince Andrew over his relationship with

0:17:38 Thomas: Eric Weinstein in it sorry this is just a cut together archival footage from public no just so far it's like here's my preview for my documentary hard -hitting you know I've got I've Got Stuff no one's ever seen it's It's like, this is from the news, dude. Okay.

0:18:12 Matt: Oh, there's interview stuff in it too. Yeah, right.

0:18:24 Thomas: We're halfway through it. Haven't seen anything.

0:18:22 Lydia: What

0:18:24 Clip: Jeffrey Epstein. I may beg of you from old thinking, but the future is for the way women think. The way women thing. That's correct.

0:18:32 Clip: Is that not a sop because of all the depravity you've done against young women? Your new sop is that women's thinking is the future? No, I've always believed that women would in fact be able to take over. I'm a firm believer and supporter of time zone. Federal prosecutors said yesterday video of Epstein's jail cell when he made his first suicide attempt no longer exists. I'm Jeffrey Edward Epstein. Have you ever been convicted of it?

0:18:40 Thomas: That's, okay. Sop? What the fuck? The

0:19:02 Clip: Epstein got away with his crimes because nearly every element of society allowed him to get away with them. This morning, we're learning new details of the exact cause of death of former registered sex offender and financier Jeffrey Epstein. The greatest threat to people put in solitary confinement is they try to kill themselves. Imagine that. You're only in a room for 24 hours, you start to go crazy.

0:19:27 Thomas: Monsters? Oh, it's him and Jeffery.

0:19:30 Matt: Yeah right. Two monsters.

0:19:32 Thomas: It's, like, he's starring in it. The Monstors starring two monsters. Wow. That interview. Is

0:19:37 Matt: So yeah, I

0:19:35 Lydia: Man did with the sop thing did he just mean standard operating procedure like what sop what is that I don't know I was trying to figure that out

0:19:45 Matt: Think his

0:19:45 Thomas: That what he means? Yeah, it sounded like it was his new, like. Marketing ploy. Kind of thing.

0:19:49 Matt: Line, his story, right?

0:19:51 Thomas: Sop. Oh, my

0:19:52 Matt: So Michael Wolff described these interviews as basically like media prep sessions where he was getting him ready for a 60 minutes interview that never happened. And Bannon, yeah, looks like, yeah

0:20:00 Lydia: Is that why like stylistically it like kind of even looked like that? Yeah, like the same kind of room.

0:20:04 Matt: And so what Bannon was promising in these emails, we don't have all of them here, but I just want to just give you a quick summary here, is Bannon saying, you know, I know you guys at Netflix. Bannon of course had had a background in film production, had a Hollywood past, and he was going to try to get, because Epstein was obviously obsessed with becoming known as a philanthropist and as a man of arts and sciences, right? The true Jeffrey Epstein.

0:20:25 Lydia: And Time's Up biggest supporter, apparently.

0:20:28 Thomas: He's a big champion of women.

0:20:29 Matt: And one of the things that Epstein, I'll

0:20:30 Lydia: A pig champion of women, is what he said?

0:20:32 Thomas: I said big champion of women, but what?

0:20:34 Lydia: I thought he said pig champion.

0:20:36 Matt: Say that.

0:20:38 Lydia: Burn.

0:20:39 Matt: One of the thing that they're talking about is Epstein throughout throughout these emails with Bannon, there's a lot of back and forth about he's advising him about how to use crypto to help raise money for Trump and for the MAGA movement and also to plot stuff in Europe. And Bannon is promising that he can help push the culture away from Time's Up and Me Too, and that he Can set back the whole movement a decade or so.

0:21:03 Thomas: Because Epstein's a huge fan of that, though.

0:21:04 Matt: He loves Time's up. He's very much in favor of accountability, and we all know that. So here's a little chummy exchange. This is a very interesting one.

0:21:15 Thomas: So this one, or did we... The Miss Miller one, Or did we do this? Oh, okay.

0:21:20 Lydia: So we think this is with Bannon.

0:21:23 Thomas: Oh, this is the iTunes email, by the way. Sender J -E -E iTunes at gmail .com.

0:21:33 Thomas: I'll get that back in the screen just for fun. Oh, good times. J E E iTunes. You and a Miss Miller want some privacy, you can use Island or Palm Beach House anytime. So this is June 2018 to who? We don't know who this is to.

0:21:39 Lydia: So we can go top to bottom.

0:21:51 Matt: Is probably Steve Bannon. There's some thought that this was Emily Miller, a Trump person that he was in touch with at the time. There is also some thought that Jason Miller might have been involved in some of this, who of course is one of the worst people in the Trump administration, but I'm not going to say that for sure. I'm just going to move on with that.

0:22:07 Lydia: Jason Miller?

0:22:10 Matt: But this is actually about Steve Bannen because he's also talking about an ABC interview.

0:22:13 Lydia: Who's Jason Miller.

0:22:15 Matt: Oh, Jason Miller was the horrible Trump aide that was a spouse abuser.

0:22:12 Thomas: Who's Jason Miller? Who is Jason Miller,

0:22:21 Matt: You remember this guy? He was so bad. Yeah, he

0:22:24 Thomas: But I don't,

0:22:21 Lydia: I Oh, wow. I was like, there's no way Matt's getting Stephen Miller's name wrong right now.

0:22:28 Thomas: Well, I mean, I wouldn't put it past Matt, but no. but, but, so, but it's a Miss Miller, I don't, I, so you would think it would be a,

0:22:36 Lydia: So why would Steve Bannon and is gonna go hang out with a Miss Miller?

0:22:42 Matt: Was involved with Emily Miller at the time. So there's some thought that he was saying, you want some privacy, you can use... I mean, I just think this is important because he's offering the use of the island or a Palm Beach house anytime. I mean this is not, I

0:22:48 Lydia: I see. I cannot imagine Bannon having intimate relationships with anybody like that is just so So, but why?

0:22:59 Thomas: Yeah, I'm sure

0:22:57 Matt: Didn't want to make you. Sorry about that.

0:23:00 Thomas: It, I's sure it's happened, but I'm not, I also not sure it happened, yeah.

0:23:07 Lydia: You can use Island or Palm Beach House anytime. And then who we think is Steve Bannon responds, thanks, brother. And then Epstein replies, again, you, you

0:23:18 Thomas: I'm trying to, yeah this, this one is in the worst format.

0:23:21 Lydia: 12 o 'clock high, me high noon. What? What does that have to do with anything?

0:23:24 Matt: I don't know. Is it a drug

0:23:25 Thomas: You, 12 o 'clock high, yeah here

0:23:26 Matt: Joke? I really don't know. But that last piece, though, just

0:23:30 Lydia: And then, is

0:23:31 Thomas: I'll get, sorry about that. You 12 o clock high, me high noon.

0:23:37 Lydia: It a penis joke?

0:23:38 Thomas: Was that, no, was that from, wait, who was is that, was that to or from, that's from Epstein, right, okay, yeah,

0:23:38 Lydia: Joke I don't know from Epstein huh okay interesting and then uh and then he responds again Epstein responds again and says um and the house use invite is sincere and not made often right

0:24:00 Matt: Wanted to show how serious these people were. This is not a casual relationship when he's saying that. I think he used the island as kind of a bargaining chip, like we saw even with somebody like Al Suckel, who's basically a hired gun for him. But yeah, just an interesting sort of look into this relationship. Now, there's way too many Ben and Epstein emails to get into, but they're going back and forth about all kinds of stuff. And they're plotting some stuff at the highest levels. We'll see some of this in a minute here, but good advice ignore Dershowitz you can work down from the top here

0:24:30 Thomas: Okay. So this one, what do we got here? Message ignore Dershowitz. Oops. So message. So 2000, so four 10, 2018 sent from Epstein to, do we know who?

0:24:45 Matt: 4 .09 in the morning

0:24:44 Lydia: Epstein and do we think this is bannon still

0:24:48 Matt: We think this is abandoned still yeah

0:24:51 Lydia: He says to bannon ignore dershowitz and I think responds he is going to be the next lead lawyer and then epstein responds I hope that is a joke oh that's good his

0:25:04 Thomas: Does

0:25:06 Matt: And then and you can get out of the next next one there

0:25:08 Lydia: Former lawyer too right like Epstein's former lawyer and he's like I hope that's a joke 2018

0:25:11 Thomas: He mean like the next,

0:25:13 Matt: I In April 2018, I'm not sure.

0:25:13 Thomas: He mean, yeah, does he, does he mean attorney general?

0:25:18 Lydia: When did Bill Barr come in in

0:25:19 Matt: Was nominated in December 2018. So looking for a replacement for Sessions at that point, so that really could be.

0:25:26 Thomas: It might be about attorney general.

0:25:27 Lydia: My god can you imagine if alan general you can imagine I think I don't yeah it would have been so

0:25:30 Thomas: Yeah. I mean in this,

0:25:33 Matt: There is a worse timeline, line, it turns out.

0:25:34 Thomas: In this world in which we live, yeah Yeah, I can.

0:25:35 Lydia: I just like like just what we know about him with the pierogies and everything now and just like thinking about I know well there is part of me where I feel like it also would have Been funnier like if dershowitz was attorney general just again seeing his pierogi meltdown

0:25:40 Thomas: You're forgetting who we actually got as attorney general, though. Like, yeah, he's like, I'm finally going to investigate this pierogi vendor and Martha's Vineyard. It's bringing the weight of the federal government down on this pierogie vendor.

0:25:54 Lydia: I think there might have been more joy with alan dershowitz attorney general than bill barr attorney general so um but bill barr did push back eventually against trump right and I don't think that would have happened under dershowicz so who knows but yeah

0:26:04 Thomas: That's for sure. Yeah. That's crazy that he did.

0:26:12 Lydia: Uh but it looks like it this conversation continues though right right, Matt? If we go to the next slide, joking about Dershowitz.

0:26:18 Thomas: It does. Okay. Okay.

0:26:22 Lydia: Okay. And then the sender, who we think is Bannon, says, not a joke at all. And dann Epstein says, okay, but you know the truth. Okay, interesting, interesting.

0:26:32 Thomas: Interesting that he didn't keep his underpants on, I'm guessing.

0:26:37 Lydia: Bannon – allegedly Bannon responds, everybody except Trump knows this is a joke.

0:26:42 Thomas: That kind of makes sense. Everybody, except Trump knows this is a joke because I I feel like Dershowitz is the kind of exactly like TV lawyer person that Trump would think is like, well, he's a lawyer I've seen on TV, so that's got to be attorney general. So like that kind of all fits. I don't know. And then we get a very bizarre message at the bottom here. Call if you get a moment. Nothing urgent. Crypto. Carrie. Qatar.

0:27:08 Lydia: Sessions.

0:27:08 Thomas: Sessions. Jeff Sessions?

0:27:08 Lydia: Oh. Well, yeah, then there you go. Go. I think that might be that might Be a clue.

0:27:12 Matt: Could be the AG.

0:27:10 Thomas: Well, Well, OK, it's related. Yeah, yeah, that's was that like way late? Let's see. When was that? I don't know. It was just later that day, I guess, or depending on whatever the time zone is. Wow. Crypto, carry, guitar. I imagine sending emails like that. I send messages to Lydia like that. Hey, call me, you know, crypto, guitar, Jeff Sessions, just normal stuff.

0:27:18 Matt: Same conversation. Yeah.

0:27:19 Lydia: A couple hours hours later. Yeah. Yeah,

0:27:33 Matt: Next AG, yeah, pick up some milk.

0:27:35 Lydia: Weird.

0:27:37 Thomas: Yeah. Not urgent.

0:27:39 Lydia: Very strange.

0:27:40 Thomas: So, we got something that's uh got a different format what's going on here jared

0:27:43 Matt: So we got some iMessages. This is about, so you might remember how much Steve Bannon hated Jared Kushner and the way that they had this ongoing feud.

0:27:44 Thomas: Forgot

0:27:56 Matt: The top message here is just working down when he says, is there any way you can mediate the difference with Jared? I just thought this is a really creepy thing for Jeffrey Epstein to say, and

0:27:52 Thomas: About that why

0:28:06 Lydia: And it continues he is so outclassed by you it's like child abuse what so that that's from that's from Epstein

0:28:11 Matt: I would know. It's awful. This is July why 2018 yeah

0:28:15 Thomas: Can't I see that is it the top of of the... It's barely cut off.

0:28:17 Matt: At the top here it's so

0:28:18 Thomas: Sorry, everyone. I don't really know why, but it's like just barely cutoff. I'll get it zoomed in there.

0:28:24 Lydia: Is there any way you can mediate the difference with jared he is so outclassed by you it's like child abuse dot dot dot yeah

0:28:32 Thomas: Who is that from and to?

0:28:33 Matt: That is from a child abuser jeffrey epstein to steve bannon yeah

0:28:38 Thomas: It's like child abuse and I would know.

0:28:40 Matt: I'm the expert uh and then he responds jared why would I want to do that like why would I want to mediate because he hates jared right this is you know um and then you can go down to the next epstein message and is a little hard to read, but yeah,

0:28:54 Lydia: What is the downside favorite what okay sorry

0:28:58 Matt: I don't know what this means. I

0:28:59 Lydia: Favorite even better than on or off dick was period you're supposed to be a smart guy but you sound like a fucking moron oi instead of why why not by the way my new we don't know what what is how would you were okay if you guys got that message from somebody like what would you respond with

0:29:17 Matt: Don' t know. Are you

0:29:22 Thomas: I'd be like, I think you've been hacked. Hacked every single reply to him would be I think you've been hacked what's what is the downside of mediating possibly is what we're thinking then it says okay we got that favorite even better than on or off dick was comma was you're supposed to be a smart guy but you sound like a fucking moron.

0:29:27 Lydia: This I yeah what right right but then what favorite was

0:29:40 Matt: I hope that's a typo.

0:29:43 Lydia: Was yeah be a smart guy so is this what he's trying to say like you should say this to jared

0:29:54 Thomas: Maybe? Yeah. Exclamation point, exclamation point, oy. And the next line, instead of why, why not? Okay, I guess that kind of makes sense.

0:30:01 Lydia: Right and yeah I get that I

0:30:03 Matt: Sage advice from Jeffrey Epstein. This is great stuff.

0:30:06 Lydia: I guess I get the like the first thing and the last thing and then whatever whatever he wants bannon to say to jaren in the middle I don't understand this even better than honor off dick I have no idea what that's supposed to be uh

0:30:11 Thomas: Okay, whatever. Jeez.

0:30:18 Matt: I prefer not to think about it. But yeah, the message in blue.

0:30:20 Lydia: And then So then Bannon responds, to do that shows that DJT is center of gravity of this movement and not me. Will never do. They are transitory figures. The DC game is to succumb to that. It's why I never did before joining campaign. I could have been the Trump whisperer years ago. Avoided on purpose.

0:30:42 Matt: Very interesting insight there from Steve Bannon that he thinks he's bigger than Trump. Yep.

0:30:46 Lydia: Very calculated. Mm -hmm.

0:30:48 Matt: Yep, he doesn't want to attach himself that much.

0:30:49 Thomas: Or at least he thinks the movement is, but yeah, he probably thinks him too. Yeah. He's definitely full of himself, that's for sure.

0:30:56 Lydia: And then he follows that up with, Jared is the idiot son -in -law. Always dismissed as that. Interesting. That's from Bannon.

0:31:06 Thomas: From, wait, who, is that back from, Oh,

0:31:08 Lydia: No, that's from Bannon to Epstein again. And then Epstein responds, agree on all. I have no views on the third act. I only would like to see him less afraid of you.

0:31:10 Thomas: Again.

0:31:21 Lydia: Jared less afraid of Bannon?

0:31:20 Thomas: Who less afraid?

0:31:21 Matt: Third act presumably, yeah, it's interesting.

0:31:24 Thomas: Or Trump less afraid of him? Yeah, I don't know.

0:31:26 Lydia: Then Bannon responds, I want him more afraid of me more in all caps okay the

0:31:31 Matt: Sounds about right. Third act presumably being post -Trump.

0:31:33 Thomas: Fuck face. Maybe? I don' t know. We' re in the first Trump administration, right? So, third act. Maybe he' s saying I don'' t have any views on what should end up happening from mediating this whole relationship. It' s just... He, it's for some, why does he care? Why is Epstein so involved in this?

0:31:41 Matt: Who knows? Just thought this is very interesting.

0:31:42 Lydia: Third act yeah

0:31:58 Matt: Yeah, it makes me think he had some kind of involvement with Jared who was doing business with all kinds of people, right? All kinds of money, right.

0:32:01 Thomas: Doesn't it? Because otherwise it'd be really weird. I mean, step aside from this impossible to read language. Um, what is undeniable is this is Epsteen emailing Bannon trying to resolve an interpersonal conflict between Jared Kushner and Bannon, right? Right?

0:32:08 Lydia: Well

0:32:23 Matt: Yeah. And this can't be philanthropy. This can't just be because he cares about Jared Kushner. I refuse to believe that.

0:32:26 Thomas: It would be bizarre if it was that.

0:32:29 Lydia: What what role did Kushner have at the time there he was like he was mediating Middle East stuff right was like was Epstein

0:32:34 Thomas: He was way involved in the, well, they were way involved in The First Turn. And yeah, I mean, I guess he had a bunch of roles, Middle East Envoy or whatever, Middle Eastern Peace Envoy. I don't remember when that was, but the point is, I do remember there was a slight, man, I'm remembering, I think there was some slight conflict between Kushner and Trump, but I guess that wouldn't matter. So it's Kushner in Bannon. Why does That is really weird. Do we get any other answers, Matt, in these emails? Why does Epstein care about Jared Kushner and Bannon's social

0:32:39 Lydia: I mean he had like several roles I guess but yeah frenemy situation

0:33:11 Thomas: Interactions or at least work dynamic interactions? That's weird. Weird. So you got to figure either Epstein has some connection to Kushner or just has an interest in like the goings on of this fascism regime and like wants to make sure it's smooth sailing. It's just weird. I can't think of what this would be that we know of. Yeah.

0:33:35 Matt: Fortunately, Jared, I mean, fortunately for him, Jared Kushler was not stupid enough to email Jeffrey Epstein directly. So apparently that we know of. Not yet. Hasn't come out yet.

0:33:43 Lydia: It it hasn't been released anyway. Yeah.

0:33:44 Matt: Yeah. We'll see.

0:33:45 Thomas: But What about, what about Jared Kushner's dad? I feel like that would be the more, the more likely thing, you know prison buddies I don't

0:33:51 Lydia: That's interesting. Yeah, maybe there's yeah, maybe there is something there. Interesting.

0:33:57 Thomas: Know but that's just weird okay yeah

0:34:01 Matt: There's another exchange I didn't include. I just wanted to mention very quickly in which Epstein helps arrange a jet for Bannon and then asks him, how does it feel to have the most highly paid travel agent in history? Bannon thanks him with you are, which I hate so much, you are pretty good assistant. Yeah.

0:34:14 Lydia: Oh letter U letter R. Yeah yeah.

0:34:17 Matt: He says, you're a pretty good assistant to which Epstein replied, massage is not included. So this is 2018, 2019 and he and Bannon are joking around.

0:34:25 Lydia: Joking about his own conduct. Yeah his own disgusting conduct. And

0:34:27 Matt: Yep, Bannon knows very well. The next one is an interesting view into the power issues here going on with Bannon and Epstein.

0:34:37 Lydia: Now these ones don't have Steve Bannon redacted.

0:34:42 Thomas: That's interesting so so if we go to this one here we don't see Steve Bannon redacted um we know that this is Steve Bannen but you're saying the other stuff it's only suspected it's Steve Bannan is weird but you are saying that um they might just redact stuff stuff differently depending on the content or depending on the source or something?

0:35:01 Matt: Well, the other ones we were just reading were, I believe, iMessages. And these are emails. So I think that might be part of it, how it was redacted. But I think it really was sloppy redaction. I think that they meant to redact some of this.

0:35:07 Thomas: That makes sense. I

0:35:10 Lydia: I mean they had 20 ,000 pages right so they probably just missed a couple

0:35:12 Matt: Not really sure what the rules were here, but

0:35:13 Thomas: See. Okay. But the different message format does kind of explain that. Okay, gotcha.

0:35:21 Matt: And you can see Steve Bannon is using a BlackBerry, which I will continue to insist makes for better emails. But yeah,

0:35:25 Lydia: So here we start at the bottom though and work our way up to the top

0:35:30 Thomas: Oh, because we're back to email stuff.

0:35:30 Matt: The bottom is really the important part. Yeah,

0:35:31 Thomas: Gotcha.

0:35:32 Matt: This is a really important email. There's a lot in here, in this bottom thing.

0:35:33 Thomas: We're learning.

0:35:32 Lydia: All right so this is from Epstein to Bannon the subject is subject Corker hopeful on approving new war powers authorization for Trump administration an article out of Politico so Epstein says yes I saw it one I will invite Jerry Baker to our our dinner tonight. Two, Miro Lajkic, president of UN, will guide the EU project if you like him.

0:35:39 Thomas: March 2018. Oh, political. Okay yeah. The fuck?

0:36:00 Lydia: His government will fall this week as planned. What?

0:36:03 Matt: Smiley face.

0:36:04 Lydia: What? Okay. Three, later today we can discuss Michael and his coins. What for Sultan Dubai in New York. Twenty one. Twenty two. Uh yeah what what

0:36:17 Matt: So yeah, let's pick this apart very quickly. There is some important stuff going on here. I wanted this little snippet here because there's so much that says so much about the kind of power that Upstein is working with. Jerry Baker is the editor -in -chief of the Wall Street Journal. So I'm just going to hang out with the editor in chief of the wall street journal. Come come on over, let's have dinner.

0:36:33 Thomas: That fits.

0:36:34 Matt: Yep, yep,

0:36:35 Lydia: Uh who also by the way that's where amy chua from our last episode the one who kind of um was in charge of all the kavanaugh um uh postings and stuff she always does her op -eds through wall street journal so you know trust that source so

0:36:50 Matt: Very much the voice of the establishment. And then Miro Lachik was somebody that there's a lot of talk about him all the way through here. Epstein really liked him. He was a Slovakian politician. I believe the president of Slovakia who became president of UN. Epstein got weirdly involved in Slovak and right -wing politics. Not really interesting enough to talk about that much, but just this little expression here about, we'll guide the EU project because he's been trying to work with Bannon on coordinating in Europe. He has all kinds of advice for Bannon about how to do business in Europe and how you have to stay there to make sure that you don't try to do things remotely because they want to see you, you have to establish a presence, which he did. Bannon ultimately did buy that. I don't know if you know about this. It's like this monastery where he was trying to do right -wing political training.

0:37:30 Matt: I dunno how much. Yeah, he bought some historic building to set up a right -wind bootcamp basically for politicians. But this chilling statement here, his government will fall this week as planned.

0:37:29 Lydia: At a monastery? Like he just bought like an old monastery? Weird. Yeah. Smiley face, yeah.

0:37:44 Thomas: But I thought you said he liked this Miro guy so

0:37:47 Matt: Yeah, he liked him for, I don't know, different. I mean, again, the same way that these predators like anybody, right? They're just useful.

0:37:55 Thomas: He liked him but his government will fall as planned unless it's saying now that his government Will Fall he'll be free it's like he's he's looking for work his government's gonna fall is that what it means like I don't even fucking know but he's president of UN what does that mean his government We'll Fall oh does that the Slovakian government like it's not like Like, as in, not like he's involved in it. It's just his country's government that he's not currently in will fall? Is that what that means?

0:38:00 Matt: The Slovakian government. Yeah. He was the Minister of Foreign Affairs. Yeah. Yes, not the UN government. Right, he was the former foreign minister. And it was that day the President accepted the resignation of the Prime Minister Robert Fico, I had to look that up. And this was actually over mass protest over murders of journalists. So, yeah. So I mean, again, it was predictable. It wasn't like he was pulling the strings on the fall of the Slovakian government, but he's certainly

0:38:49 Thomas: And it could have been as planned by whom? You know, like, not necessarily Epstein.

0:38:52 Matt: Yeah. But I mean again, Just to throw this in there for conspiracy theorists, Jeffrey Epstein was a member of the Trilateral Commission and the Council on Foreign Relations, both of which figure heavily into conspiracy theories. Just a very influential guy, there's just no question. He had his fingers on a lot of pies, so I just think it's worth mentioning. I don't know about...

0:38:58 Thomas: What?

0:39:14 Matt: I

0:39:13 Thomas: I would argue you can't be influential when you email like this. Nobody, like who could, what could you influence?

0:39:17 Matt: Would hope.

0:39:19 Thomas: Like, somebody could send me an email like this, and I'd be like, I can't do anything with this.

0:39:19 Lydia: Straight to trash. Well, that's why Peggy in the last episode, she was like, yeah, if you fix your grammar, fix that statement, I'm happy to help.

0:39:30 Thomas: Weird.

0:39:29 Matt: Right, get back to man. But you know, just this little set of items.

0:39:35 Lydia: Michael. OK.

0:39:32 Thomas: Weirdest thing ever. Okay. And the Sultan of Duabi.

0:39:36 Lydia: And then wait. But Mike, Michael and his coins. What's Michael and His Coins?

0:39:41 Thomas: Michael and his coins.

0:39:43 Matt: So they do talk about Michael Cohen a lot. I don't know if Michael Cohen is trying to get a crypto coin going.

0:39:46 Lydia: That that made me think it was Michael Cohen. Oh, would

0:39:46 Thomas: That, oh, The taxi medallions? I don't know, that doesn't make sense.

0:39:51 Lydia: You call that coins? I mean, I don't know, maybe. And his coins? Lines.

0:39:52 Thomas: I don' know, it's all I can think of. Michael and His Coins.

0:39:55 Matt: But they do talk about crypto a lot, so I'm guessing it's crypto then.

0:39:57 Thomas: Yeah it could be could be crypto yeah it's probably crypto but it could also still be Michael Cohen interesting okay what

0:40:02 Lydia: Freaking crypto. Okay. And so then Steve Bannon responds, what What time time is diner? Do You want me to come over beforehand? And then Epstein responds. Sure. Dinner seven, come at six. And Steve Bannan responds done so they had dinner later that night and now we know their social calendar right

0:40:20 Matt: Editor -in -chief of of the Wall Street Journal, because why not? Yeah, so just a little taste there. And there's another one where he promises he can stave off Time's Up for a decade. It's just like all this stuff. There's a lot of back and forth.

0:40:24 Lydia: Yeah jerry baker yeah

0:40:36 Thomas: But I thought he loved Time's Up what's

0:40:37 Lydia: So yeah how how does that work stave off

0:40:42 Thomas: This uh are we going to the Next One uh that has oh you're saying there's another one that you didn't include oh oh gotcha

0:40:47 Matt: Yeah. There is so much stuff here. I'm just referencing some things I've seen.

0:40:52 Thomas: I know I'm just trying to make sure I'm on the right ones oh

0:40:52 Matt: So this one is a quick note about the Acosta thing.

0:40:57 Matt: They Alexander Acosta, of course, was the US attorney who had negotiated the plea deal. He ended up having to resign as labor secretary to Trump once it came out that he was the guy who had negotiated and finalized the sweetheart deal. Yeah.

0:41:06 Thomas: The sweetheart deal for uh Epstein

0:41:08 Matt: Yeah, right. So this is an interesting chain here with Reid Weingarten, who was a very influential defense attorney who worked on Epstein's matters. And then Roy Black is also in the chat. Roy Black was apparently going to represent him at trial. Roy Buck is a very well -known defense attorney and was going to to represent him if he went to trial in the Florida case, which he didn't, of course.

0:41:28 Matt: But interesting note from Weingarten, I thought. He sends the story.

0:41:33 Lydia: So so yeah so uh epstein sends weingarten the story um from politico about you know them looking to alex acosta stuff and uh weingarton responds I know I just saw that and almost threw up also have to decide today whether or not to take Flynn oh

0:41:48 Matt: I thought that was really interesting for several reasons. You've already been representing Jeffrey Epstein for years and you're vacillating about whether or not you're going to represent Michael Flynn. I feel like It's not really... I don't know.

0:41:51 Thomas: Take Flynn yeah

0:42:00 Lydia: Yeah to take him as a client interesting and it's not that he has like a son named Flynn like that he's gonna like take to the zoo or something well

0:42:04 Matt: I don t think so.

0:42:04 Thomas: That's funny I was gonna take Flynn to the Acosta show one -man show Now I might not.

0:42:15 Lydia: Because that's the thing I read Flynn and immediately I thought like Michael Flynn also but then but then a part of me is like okay but am I being like too harsh You know, and it just happens to be somebody else named Flynn. Like, yeah, no, I just wanted to throw that out there. But OK, so then OK, then we get this conversation between Weingarten Black and Epstein, it looks like. And Epstein says, who will represent Acosta at hearings?

0:42:19 Thomas: It's definitely that. What? No, that's interesting. Okay. Oh, it's like a forwarded. Oh right.

0:42:41 Lydia: And then Roy Black says he will be by himself, perhaps a Trump administration aide to assist and accompany him. And then, yeah, and then it looks like that was forwarded to Weingarten to keep him in the loop.

0:42:48 Matt: Just the level of interest is very interesting to me. Just a

0:42:55 Lydia: Got it. Interesting.

0:42:56 Matt: Little insight there into how closely they're watching all of this. Because they know that the more attention on Acosta, the more attention on Epstein. And they know it's going to come up at the hearings. So yeah, they really thought that they were going to get away with it. I think he actually thought it wasn't going to come up again.

0:43:09 Lydia: I mean, ultimately, they did get away with it, though, right? Right. Like it was it was brought up again, but like the it was, you know, kind of weak report that ended up coming out of all of that. Yeah, that's true.

0:43:11 Matt: Well, yeah. But arguably, the reason that people know so much about Jeffrey Epstein now is because of that churn around the Acosta story, because it brought up all that reporting again and got a lot more popular interest than it had before.

0:43:29 Lydia: Yeah, yourself Thomas because I I just peeked at this next one and it is, it's gross, everybody. It's gross.

0:43:36 Matt: Is a trigger warning. So for context, this is Lawrence Krauss, very familiar I know to you guys at ASU. And he is seeking advice as many horrible men do from Jeffrey Epstein about women, kind of out of order.

0:43:54 Lydia: So, okay. But then these look like they're combined in a weird way, right? Right. Because, like, there's one that says December 11th, 7 .09 p .m. in the middle that it says Epstein wrote, did you have sex with her? Condom? Did she take it? I wouldn't respond. My advice is consistent off the record. This just like mislabeled or something? Is there a weird time zone thing happening? Because the thing at the very bottom makes sense to be first. Yeah. OK. This has to be from bottom to top.

0:44:19 Thomas: Why?

0:44:20 Matt: Weird. And we

0:44:26 Thomas: Well, it sounds like, is this a reasonable response? It sounds like that could be a forward of something. Maybe.

0:44:34 Lydia: But I guess I'm just thrown off because that that date there from Epstein in the middle says December 11th, which predates that email at the bottom from Krause. See what I mean?

0:44:44 Thomas: Oh, I was assuming he was responding to, oh yeah, fuck.

0:44:49 Lydia: It's confusing.

0:44:50 Thomas: You're right. How does it, so that's the most recent date stamp is that, I see. Is this a reasonable response huh okay

0:44:59 Matt: Don't know what the response is, but yeah.

0:45:01 Thomas: Yeah so it looks like we don't have that part all right

0:45:04 Lydia: Yeah. So but then like if I go in time order, assuming these are all timed accurately, then you go up to the top. Now, December

0:45:12 Thomas: Back to the top let

0:45:13 Lydia: 12th at 2 .22 a .m.

0:45:16 Thomas: Me zoom in on that a bit oh

0:45:17 Lydia: And we see the subject that this is in response to BuzzFeed News inquiry regarding allegations of sexual harassment. So this has to be I.

0:45:25 Thomas: This is when he's starting oh that's early too right because it took a while well

0:45:31 Lydia: Yeah, I think this might be when he got published against basically. Like called out about to yeah yeah yeah exactly um and he responds to epstein's question about sex here no we didn't have sex decided it wasn't a good idea it feels very strange if like this is your thread about your allegations of sexual harassment and buzzfeed is asking for a comment from you that jeffrey epstein is like asking you questions about did you have sex with her like like within this email thread. I don't know.

0:45:35 Thomas: Well it sounds like well it sounds like he's getting yeah being asked for comment right from the yeah yeah oh oh is this this a reasonable response? I think is responding to the news inquiry. So he probably had a draft of like Lawrence Krauss probably had draft response to the News Inquiry. Okay, I see. I just got threaded weird.

0:46:13 Lydia: And that's his last, yeah, exactly, because that's His last message in this. At 2 .47 a .m. at the bottom, Lawrence Krauss says, is this a reasonable response? Should I even respond? Could use advice. Mutual decisions about meeting and everything else at the time, I assumed that was clear. I don't know what that is about oh

0:46:33 Thomas: Well, mutual decisions about meeting it. I imagine he's probably saying yeah, everything was consensual or something to about whoever the woman was.

0:46:36 Lydia: About oh at the time yeah okay yeah yeah this this is threaded very haphazardly by whoever put this together but um yeah I come on house oversight committee I'm just kidding they have a lot going on I guess I think

0:46:56 Thomas: So is this all we get Matt? Was there any other things to this thread or is this gross?

0:46:59 Matt: There's more Krauss but this is what we get for this. And again, I just thought it was noteworthy that he's looking for advice and that Epstein says not to respond.

0:47:05 Thomas: Hey, if you're going to try to find out how to get away with sexual misconduct, you might as well learn from the best. You might as Well, go to the pie may of getting away with sexual misconduct?

0:47:12 Lydia: But but you would think like if you had an ounce of self -reflection or humility or anything, like you'd take a second to reflect on who am I reaching out to for advice in this moment when I'm being accused of sexual harassment? I know my pedophile friend. Like that seems like, yeah,

0:47:31 Thomas: Well, I'll be honest. I mean, I think he's going to someone in his life who he knows has dealt with this kind of thing. Like he's like, yeah, you have experience with being accused of stuff and all that.

0:47:41 Lydia: I don't know. I feel like you should go talk to a lawyer, just like a, you know, Jed

0:47:49 Thomas: Well, who did Ken Starr end up connecting? Well that is a a lawyer right or I mean but not in a legal like context I guess yeah interesting I all I can remember from that time is Lawrence Krauss's whoever Lawrence Kraus's wife was at that time I don't know if still is was just going off on people in comment sections about this like defending him like everything was consensual he's you know we're all adults kind of thing in a way that was like weird it was it was like I mean already that's weird but it also was like the the language and the everything was like,

0:47:54 Lydia: Rubenfeld from Yale to Lawrence Krauss. Uh yeah well a law professor yeah yeah legal scholar yeah um a bit yeah

0:48:26 Thomas: This, this looks like a kid or something. It was just weird. She was like or like a super boomer, you know, like just I remember the language being just bizarre. It Was the whole thing was disturbing. And I wanted to stop knowing about it as soon as I could.

0:48:36 Lydia: Well and like and we we had just met him like seven months before this at a conference yeah

0:48:43 Thomas: Well, and we had met him and he was instantly one of those people who because I was a big fan of Lawrence Cross. I loved his talks. And so I'm just super interested in exactly that kind of, you know, astrophysics stuff like that.

0:48:57 Lydia: And the science communication like he's really good at it yeah mm

0:48:59 Thomas: Theories of, uh, of, of origins of the universe and everybody's the origins project is what, what he was the director of just all that stuff was so interesting. He was getting pretty, pretty big at that time in the, in the science circles and the skeptic circles. And we went to this event and his talk was pretty good. Um, and then after it was one of those things where I wanted to, you Know, talk to him and it it became clear that he was like, there are those people, um, and I don't know if everyone else is like me, but sometimes you meet someone and right away I was like oh, he's one of those people who has had enough to drink where I'm not talking to him, like he just can't, he wasn't, wasn't there, you know, and I, I have pretty, um like I, I cut off, I cut people off easily with stuff like that, like I just don't want to, I'm not, you know like I don't Want to be around, so I was like like oh can't talk to you never mind and that was kind of the the extent of the interaction and it

0:49:53 Thomas: Was like oh okay once this came out I was like well that kind of fits like if already he was at like the after mixer thing at the conference and it was like it was at the venue it wasn't like we went it was this wasn't a fifth location you know like all night drinking kind of thing it was like at the bar the hotel bar that was right next to the hotel venue that it was literally just just walked out the door. And I, I don't remember what time that was, but it was like, not that late. And it was, like, he was already just, it was just, oh, okay, he's one of those.

0:50:09 Lydia: The hotel bar yeah yeah yeah there there were some questionable interactions too from what I recall

0:50:25 Thomas: And so when it came out, I was like yep, that all, that fits. That all fits perfectly.

0:50:28 Lydia: Gross

0:50:30 Matt: Well, if you'd like to have a little less respect for Lawrence Krauss, we've got a fun misogynist joke on the way out. Next slide.

0:50:35 Thomas: I, that's, that going to be hard to do, Matt. Let's see if we can have less respect for Lawrence Krauss.

0:50:39 Matt: I didn't want to leave on the disgusting one. I thought we should have something a little lighter. It's still awful, but bottom

0:50:44 Thomas: Oh, this is the, is this the men of the, that one, the, am I on the right one?

0:50:44 Lydia: And this this one is going from bottom to top yeah yeah yes all

0:50:47 Matt: To top. Yeah, so he writes,

0:50:51 Thomas: Okay, Okay. Here we go.

0:50:53 Lydia: Right so starting from the bottom this This is April 5th, 2018, so post -BuzzFeed News article release, I imagine. See, Epstein forwards from Tina Brown, the Women in the World Summit opens April 12th and runs through April 14th with a power -packed agenda of remarkable female newsmakers sharing their stories of male misbehaviors. Okay. Confidential agenda enclosed here. How did he get that? Guess Tina Brown. Yeah. And and then Lawrence Krauss. What is this? Lawrence Kraus responds. Enjoy.

0:51:23 Matt: Enjoy.

0:51:18 Thomas: Confidential agenda. Yeah. Wow. Oh, well, I don't know that this was necessary after. What was the date that that thing came out?

0:51:34 Lydia: February 22nd 2018 um the buzzfeed news article he became a celebrity for putting science before god now lawrence krauss faces allegations of sexual misconduct

0:51:38 Thomas: So just that. Okay. Okay, now

0:51:43 Matt: Just stories of male misbehaviors. So Jeffrey Epstein thinks, my buddy Lawrence Krauss will enjoy this. Haha. Follows up eight hours later when Epstein hasn't responded.

0:51:52 Thomas: He's still seething about it.

0:51:54 Matt: Yeah he's still thinking about it.

0:51:47 Lydia: Enjoy let's yeah from lawrence krauss to jeffrey epstein let's do a men of the world conference kevin spacey bill clinton al franken woody allen and then I'm guessing that's him his signature but it's but it adds lawrence krauss to the list

0:52:06 Matt: It's his signature, but it's funny. It was like, throw him in too.

0:52:13 Thomas: Let's do a man of the world. It's Kevin Spacey, Bill Clinton, Al Franken, Woody Allen. And then it says Lawrence Krauss. That's funny.

0:52:14 Lydia: Man

0:52:21 Matt: Telling himself.

0:52:21 Thomas: Unintentionally.

0:52:23 Matt: So there you go. Just the worst people talking to each other.

0:52:27 Thomas: I wonder if that's based on the women that were actually there, if he's saying there's something wrong with them. Oh, it's Hillary Clinton, Ronan Farrow. Point is men of the world conference featuring the worst people. Okay.

0:52:48 Lydia: Didn't jeff epstein get listed on there like, just add him there, too. Why not?

0:52:51 Thomas: That's who he's talking about. He's saying,

0:52:53 Lydia: I know.

0:52:53 Thomas: He's, he was talking to,

0:52:54 Lydia: I know, but, like, let's do it.

0:52:54 Thomas: He saying, let's do it. He's, I think, I assume let's do it means there'll be the keynotes, you know, cool Krause. Awesome. I ever play for you the, the clip of, of Krause defending Epstein? Do we ever do I ever play that for you why

0:52:58 Lydia: Okay. Gotcha, gotcha. Don't know if we have done that yet.

0:53:10 Matt: Just that seems appropriate.

0:53:12 Thomas: It's not an actual video. It's just I thought it was a video. Remember conversations pretty well, but I don't remember what they were. So like it might have been that I read this and heard it in his voice in my mind and then thought he said it like in an audio medium or video medium.

0:53:24 Matt: It's good to be able to just look at this quote, though. This is quite a quote.

0:53:27 Thomas: But yeah, I know this. I've gone off on this before because it's truly outrageous. As a scientist, I always judge things on empirical evidence, and he always has women ages 19 to 23 around him, but I've never seen anything else. So as a scientist, and I think it will continue here. Oh, wait. Oh, there is a video. Okay. Sorry. Maybe we do get a video version of it. I don't know.

0:53:46 Lydia: Wait maybe wow

0:53:50 Clip: Would

0:53:50 Matt: Good just to dwell on that language, which is going

0:53:50 Clip: You raise your right hand, please? Yes. Do you soundly swear the testimony of these women

0:53:53 Thomas: Well, now it's going into deposition. Okay, I think I was just contrasting that quote with Edifile.

0:53:54 Matt: To contradict what he said. But yeah, he always checked the IDs of all the ladies around Jeffrey Epstein, 19 to 23. That's a very specific age range.

0:54:02 Lydia: Well and you have to say 19 also because if you say 18 it's like okay no there's no way like she looked 18 but yeah not 19 yeah

0:54:09 Matt: We know what you mean. Right, right? Yeah.

0:54:12 Thomas: Man, only defends him, he uses his scientific clout to defend him by casting it in those terms. Like, you a scientist, and you know he's a scientist with credibility because he does all these universe talks and stuff. It's like, that was so disgusting. Like, it's one of the worst ways you can even defend Epstein, and that's saying something, because using scientific credibility as a scientific leader to try to defend him is just disgusting stuff.

0:54:40 Matt: That should be the last time you get to say as a scientist again. Like that's, yeah.

0:54:42 Thomas: You would hope so. Yeah, yeah. Anyway, while tying that out, I don't see if there's a longer quote anywhere, but you get the gist. So got a great our favorite person Megan Kelly who always has a good chill take on okay who's this hold on who's this do we know who this is News Nation host does she suck do you know who THIS is okay but someone else who sucks too

0:54:50 Matt: That's awful.

0:54:56 Clip: Who were grown-ups when they met Jeffrey Epsteins talking

0:55:04 Lydia: That I don't have background on her yeah

0:55:07 Clip: About themselves like they were children at the time? To me, that's really off -putting. It's kind of a slap in the face to the actual victims. The Virginia Giuffre aspect where there was just lie upon lie upon lie, like the idea that this is kind of something that's going to bring Trump down with his own base, with the other side, I just find it to be all so sordid.

0:55:17 Thomas: They always care about the actual victims items uh

0:55:33 Clip: Moreover, you know, Jeffrey Epstein, there are countless, countless numbers of women, young women, who were brought into his houses and to his island and paid for, quote, a massage with a happy ending, for lack of a better term. I mean, countless numbers of women. And he did like them young. And there were several young women who he did this to who were minors, who were underage. There's just no question about that. That is a true fact about Jeffrey Epstein. But that is not a true act about Donald Trump. And

0:55:33 Thomas: -huh okay

0:55:33 Matt: That's what started.

0:55:56 Thomas: End of end of video good night everyone oh okay

0:56:04 Clip: If Donald Trump allegedly liked the barely legal type, we would know, we would know we know virtually everything about the man's sex life unfortunately and we would know if he had a penchant for the super young girls at this point he ran the Miss Universe contest yes we heard a story about him possibly going backstage into the dressing room at least once not great not particularly shocking given how Trump was when he was younger

0:56:04 Thomas: Here we go well didn't he say he likes him young like yeah and we know that he went into there mm Mm-hmm yep good you got there no oh

0:56:30 Matt: Said it himself when

0:56:35 Clip: But we have not seen some slew of young women

0:56:37 Matt: He was younger.

0:56:35 Thomas: It's not shocking guys that's okay if you if it's if we expect him to be a horrible shitty pedophile, then it's not shocking. That's the thing. It's only, it's only newsworthy if it's shocking. If it's a new, different thing, that's, that'S the problem.

0:56:45 Matt: Nothing new.

0:56:48 Clip: Come forward to say, me too, on Donald Trump molesting them or having paid for sex with them when they were barely legal or otherwise. It just hasn't happened. Yeah. In fact, at that same press conference, the lawyer for a group of the women actually said Jeffrey Epstein would prey upon women when they Were underage, true and disgusting and horrible. And then the lawyer said, and when when they came of age and he was no longer interested in them, he would then pass them on.

0:57:20 Clip: So there was no pedophilia ring. There was a pedophile who did unspeakable things to vulnerable girls and then they would age out of Jeffrey Epstein's pedophilic interests at which point he would then start to pass them around to his friends, meaning that there were not actual crimes committed by anybody beyond, there's no pedophile ring.

0:57:20 Matt: At 18. Yes.

0:57:26 Thomas: And then I, and then a used service, like a, oh, okay. Gotcha. It's fine. Yeah.

0:57:37 Lydia: Just sex trafficking yeah okay no that's

0:57:41 Clip: There's a pedophile and then a bunch of friends who were getting massages at that point from women who were no longer underage. This is from the lawyer at that press conference. So I think that that kind of dispels a lot of the like salaciousness of the story. People are like, where is the justice for the victims?

0:57:37 Matt: Trump, why

0:57:41 Lydia: Still a crime sorry

0:57:48 Matt: Are you doing this?

0:57:57 Clip: The justice is one of the person, the people who did unspeakable things to them died in prison and the other one is still in prison. So like they got their justice and the whole ring idea I think has been wildly blown out of proportion for these political reasons. I don't know about ring. But there are definitely a couple of very well -connected people who have not been brought to justice.

0:57:56 Lydia: No killing

0:58:06 Thomas: Wait, who's the other one? Oh yeah.

0:58:08 Lydia: Right

0:58:19 Clip: I'm not going to repeat the names here, but one

0:58:18 Thomas: Oh, okay now you, so now you have to maintain your ability to say it's Bill Clinton and the Democrats who were doing this thing, but also there was no, there was no thing. So, but the Democrats were doing, doing it, but it was all fine, but not Trump.

0:58:33 Lydia: But but not trump because trump trump is like like 18 and up, like as a rule, as a hard rule.

0:58:35 Thomas: So Trump and the democrats in their worldview were doing the same thing. But when you talk about Trump doing it's, it's fine. It's fine, But then these other people that wasn't fine, even though they were doing same thing, right? Like you can't maintain those two things.

0:58:48 Lydia: Well, yeah, well, I think, I think what, like, what Angar Sargon is, yes.

0:58:51 Thomas: She literally said there's one pedophile. She said there's one. So if she wants to take that position and I don't know, is that correct? Maybe it's correct that like the only, the only person who was doing stuff with underage people was Epstein. And then he would like pass them along once they were of age, I guess.

0:59:07 Lydia: I'm sorry. Yeah, I just find that really hard to believe.

0:59:09 Thomas: Like if you want to go with that, then you can't also say, but, but there's some Democrats essentially who aren't in trouble, who haven't been caught yet. You can't do both those things. Sorry.

0:59:19 Lydia: Of it's gross. And, and the idea that, that Jeffrey Epstein is likely to have been the only person who, you know, took advantage of and, and raped and sexually assaulted underage girls, I think is just, we don't know that. I find that kind of hard to believe when we know how many people he was in contact with and you look at like statistical likelihood. So I just, I don't buy that. I think Ungar Sargon is trying to just, you know, get people to move on and pretend like justice has been served. And I would be more interested in hearing from the victims and if they feel like justice has been serve.

0:59:59 Thomas: Well, and it's it might not be that like there's there's there's more than one thing that happened here that was wrong. It wasn't just underage people. It was also nonconsensual behavior. And there have been accusations against other people that and I think, Matt, you might have mentioned someone took him back, you know, after possibly death threats or maybe there's some sort of settlement or something. But like those exist.

1:00:22 Thomas: And so, yeah, like possibly, I mean, I guess we can't maybe prove anything right now, but I'm like if the evidence showed that he that Epstein's the only one they have proof of doing stuff with underage girls, I would believe that just because it it is the kind of thing that like I doubt like it's not often that pedophiles work in tandem with other pedophile. Like it's usually that kind of criminal is like an antisocial thing. I mean, I guess it's a different thing, but like I would, I'd be willing to believe that if the evidence showed that, I Guess is what I'm saying, but that's

1:00:22 Lydia: And those are still crimes. Yeah, yeah.

1:00:59 Thomas: Not necessarily the same as saying there wasn't any non-consensual stuff with people who were very young, but maybe not technically underage. Right.

1:01:07 Matt: And also what she's describing is grooming. She's saying that he would groom these girls and then pass them along when they're 18. That doesn't make it better.

1:01:13 Thomas: And that's a victimless crime. Yeah. It you're saying he started off with them underage, there is no innocent way you can pass them along. Like it would be what I think. I think in their mind they're thinking, oh, it was, you know, it's it's a massage. It's a service that you paid them for. And so it's just like, you knows, just like any other client referral. But it's like, yeah. If if he started with them as a child, there's no consensual version of passing them along, even if they've aged into adulthood. Adulthood yeah the whole thing is gross right

1:01:16 Matt: That's horrible at 14, 15. No. Yeah.

1:01:23 Lydia: It's trafficking. Yeah I

1:01:43 Matt: Yeah that's not as

1:01:43 Lydia: Do also just want to say like like in terms of Pedophiles being kind of like a solo endeavor. Usually it's because like they're considered to be a pariah of society, right? Jeffrey Epstein was not considered a paria of society people were like actively enabling him and and whitewashing his behavior and And trying to, like, make excuses all the time. They included him in events when they knew there were going to be people there at risk. So I just, I don't know.

1:01:53 Thomas: Yeah yeah fair no

1:01:57 Matt: We've learned.

1:02:09 Thomas: I yeah I'm just saying that's why if the evidence went there I would be willing to believe it but I don't know I like from from all we've seen I mean and we never know if we've seeing everything like conspiracy theories haven't totally panned out with a lot of it and I think that's hard because there have been so many of them that it's like okay well this didn't pan out this didn't pan this didn't pan out but I guess it doesn't mean like there aren't a few that panned out. And even if that's a very low batting average, that means there's still some really gross stuff that people got away with. But I think it's tough because like when I've seen skeptical people taking a look at all the evidence, like in the Ghislaine Maxwell case, when the line was, oh, who was she trafficking these people to? It's well to Epstein, like the evidence showed that it was to him.

1:02:56 Thomas: And so So in that sense, it's like, well, I want to push back on this idea that there was this vast pedophile ring and nobody was held accountable because that doesn't seem to be true. There doesn't seems to have been like a vast network of pedophilia that just somehow only one person got in trouble for. But it doesn't, that's not the same as saying there's nobody else that could be implicated. So it's kind of it's kind of a tough thing because it's like when depending on who's pushing the conspiracy theory, it's like you want to push back in some ways, especially because they're trying to say it's, you know, it's Hillary Clinton and the and the cheese pizza and the blah, blah, blah. And you're like, OK, there's no real evidence of any of that kind of crap, you know, but also there is evidence of Trump and possibly, you know. Our favorite lawyer maybe like there's allegations against other people that are not necessarily proven out or there's questionable things about them in terms of were they forced to kind of take their word back or are they not, you know, so like there's, there's other stuff, but there's not like a big pedophile ring. Right. Or I, or am I wrong? I know that's my, just my understanding

1:04:01 Thomas: Of the evidence based on what I've seen.

1:04:01 Matt: Mean a lot of people got hurt and that's what really matters. I know we all know that but I just want to make the point.

1:04:05 Thomas: A hundred percent. Yeah, of course. It's no, yeah. It was not about the lack of victims. It'S about perpetrators is what I'm saying. So like there'S countless victims.

1:04:11 Matt: I'm agreeing with you. I think that trying to plumb the depths of it doesn't really may even matter, as we'll see from the Describables press conference. There's so many people affected.

1:04:19 Thomas: Right. We didn't even get to the quote in this one, right?

1:04:23 Lydia: Oh, no, it was the barely legal, wasn't it?

1:04:25 Thomas: Did she already? No, I don't think we got to it.

1:04:27 Matt: There's another place where she says that basically,

1:04:29 Clip: Of them is a very, very successful business owner. No, I'm just, I don't want to get sued. But one of Them is a hugely successful business owner who seems to be a bit of a pervert. And his name is all over the papers. His connections to Epstein are very, well -known. They were connected financially. They were connected as friends. And I want to know more about him.

1:04:35 Thomas: But again, you can't have it both ways. Wait, who's she talking about?

1:04:48 Clip: There's plenty who I want to know more about who have been publicly linked to epstein and seem to have dodged responsibility that's my own take on it it's not that I'm not referring

1:04:48 Lydia: I don' t know.

1:04:56 Thomas: But you know who else has been publicly linked to Epstein? Trump. You can't be like,

1:05:00 Matt: Business owner? Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

1:05:09 Clip: To secret names only I know I'm talking about names that are in the paper but again like without hardcore proof you shouldn't say their names because you don't know what they're sure but you know people know the names we've heard them many many times anyway I do think there are some who are so well connected or did such a good job of hiding their tracks that they'll never be uh facing real charges as for epstein I've said this before but just as a reminder I do know somebody very very close to this case who is in a position to know virtually everything not everything but virtually everything and this person has told me from the start years and years ago that jeffrey epstein in this person's view was not a pedophile this is this person who was there for a lot of this but that he was into the barely legal type like he liked 15 year old girls and I I realize this is disgusting I'm definitely not trying to make an excuse for this I'm just giving you facts um that

1:05:28 Thomas: You Trump. Okay.

1:05:33 Matt: Here it is.

1:05:42 Thomas: Is this Dershowitz? I feel like it is.

1:05:56 Matt: That's not legal.

1:05:57 Lydia: That's illegal. Illegal, that's illegal.

1:06:02 Clip: He wasn't into like eight -year -olds but he liked the very young teen types that could pass for even younger than they were but would look legal to a passerby and that is what I believed and that was what I reliably was told for many years and it wasn't until we heard from pam bondy that they had tens of thousands of videos of alleged, forgive me, they used to call it kiddie porn, now they call it child sexual abuse material, on his computer that for the first time I thought, oh no, he was an actual pedophile. I mean, only a pedophile gets off on young children abuse videos. She's never clarified it. I don't know whether it's true. I have to be honest, I don'T really trust Pam Bondi's word on the Epstein matters anymore yeah so I don't know what's true about him but we have yet to see anybody come forward and say I was a like a I was under 10 I was under 14 when I first came within his purview

1:06:02 Lydia: That's a pedophile.

1:07:08 Clip: I look it's you

1:07:08 Matt: They were 14.

1:07:09 Thomas: I was gonna say it was pretty pretty close to you

1:07:09 Clip: Can say that's a dedication

1:07:09 Matt: So that's fine. Thanks for the nuance, Megyn Kelly. Very,

1:07:13 Thomas: Went to up to right up to the age pretty much like it's kind of an arbitrary cutoff yeah whatever

1:07:15 Matt: I mean, she has a 14 -year -old daughter. I just want to point that out. Yeah.

1:07:19 Lydia: That is disgusting.

1:07:21 Thomas: It's one of those things that is who always says that it's like the the um

1:07:26 Matt: The worst people on earth.

1:07:27 Thomas: The worst people on the internet yeah are always like no it's not technically this it's this other thing. What do they always say?

1:07:30 Matt: It's afebophile. I keep saying that word. Yeah afebofile.

1:07:35 Thomas: It's like, I bet you criminally and psychologically, there is probably some distinction there. I just don't really know why. There's some people who have a lot of interest in explaining that all the time. You're like, okay, I guess. What does that matter here? I don't know.

1:07:48 Lydia: That is very

1:07:48 Matt: It's just the best thing to well actually add us. Thank you.

1:07:50 Lydia: Harmful,

1:07:51 Thomas: Yeah. I think it seems like the, the only reason you would be constantly bringing that up. It was like, it's one thing if you're talking about in some context that makes sense, but the only way you're going to be constantly bringing that is because you're trying to possibly excuse someone who's the other thing, you know, like you're like, well, they're not into like eight year olds. Oh, okay. So now you're saying Trump was into, you know, possibly 13 year old or whatever, you know, it's like you, you're always bringing it up because you're trying to like soften the, the blow against somebody who, yeah, exactly.

1:07:51 Lydia: Harmful rhetoric right there. Yeah the blow, yeah, yeah.

1:08:18 Matt: Well actually it's the pedophiles monster. Yes.

1:08:23 Lydia: That is that's good no

1:08:31 Matt: Want to make sure we give the last word to Marina Lacerda who speaks speaks very powerfully in this press conference we're going to watch held at the Capitol because this is a perfect antidote to what Megyn Kelly just said

1:08:40 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, let's get, let'S get the real stuff here. What was the timestamp on this one oh sorry okay minute minute 14 or

1:08:43 Matt: At minute 14. Yeah.

1:08:47 Clip: Into Jeffrey Epstein where all she wanted was the government to talk to her little did What did she know? The government had worked out a secret immunity deal for Jeffrey Epstein and we had to file Jane Doe's versus United States of America to prove that Jeffrey Epsteins worked out an illegal non -prosecution agreement with the government. That was 2008. It took us 10 years battling the government pro bono for the judge to ultimately determine that the victim's rights were violated. The government has mistreated them after Jeffrey Epstien mistreated them. We then filed civil lawsuits against Ghislaine Maxwell, which has resulted in her being in prison. Our civil lawsuits led to her prosecution. We filed lawsuits against Jeffrey Epstein, against his estate, and against two financial institutions, JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank, that proved that they provided, knowingly provided, the financial infrastructure for a sex trafficking operation.

1:09:45 Clip: Unfortunately, all of the documents and evidence that we have worked so hard to gather hide behind protective orders, confidentiality agreements, and bank secrecy laws. That is why this discharge petition is so important. While we have seen the documents, you haven't. And when you see the documents you're going to be appalled. And the American people deserve to see everything. When you sign this discharge position, it should mean nothing is off -limits. That means the documents in the possession of the CIA should be made available. Those in possession of the FBI going back decades should be made available, the SEC financial records in the position of FinCEN should be made available everybody knows that evil evil flourishes in the darkness corruption flourishes and secrecy it is time right now to make a difference for the women that are behind me right now They have been courageous and fought through this whole thing. Whether you're a Republican or you're a Democrat, this one is an easy call. You're an American who cares about equal rights and equal protection under the law. If you care about these women, if you care about our country, and you care about this issue, this should pass with flying colors. I really appreciate everybody being here.

1:11:05 Thomas: It's marjorie taylor green right are

1:11:07 Clip: Hi, good morning. My name is Brittany Henderson and I I think in addition to Marina

1:11:10 Matt: So, sorry, was this at minute 14?

1:11:10 Thomas: We watching this or that was at a minute 14 um interesting

1:11:14 Matt: Yeah, that's what I had for someone else.

1:11:17 Thomas: Well that was interesting let me know if you find the the other the other part is

1:11:18 Matt: It's a good summary. I was looking for Marina Lucerta. I thought that that was... that's Lucerta right there.

1:11:22 Thomas: That does she look like I

1:11:23 Matt: You can go to the beginning of her testimony, her

1:11:23 Thomas: Can oh that maybe you had it 14 oh yeah you said a minute 14 did you say

1:11:31 Matt: No, I'm sorry. A minute 14. Yeah. That worked out pretty well to get right over the speech though.

1:11:34 Thomas: It did it did work out perfectly but uh I

1:11:36 Clip: Lacerda I was minor victim one in federal indictment of Jeffrey Epstein in New York in 2019 I was one of dozen of girls that I personally know who were forced into Jeffrey's mansion on 9 East 71 Street in New york city when we were just kids today is the first time that I ever speak publicly about what happened to me I never thought that I would find myself here. The only reason that I am here is because it feels like the people who matter in this country finally care about what we have to say. As an immigrant from Brazil I feel empowered knowing that the little girl struggling to get by at 14 and 15 years old finally has a voice. For the first time I feel like I matter as an American. I was only 14 years old when I met Jeffrey. It was the summer of high school I was working three jobs to try to support my mom and my sister when a friend of mine in the neighborhood told me that I could make $300 to give another guy a massage. It went from a dream job to the worst nightmare. Jeffrey assistant Leslie Groff would call me and tell me that I needed to be at the house so often that I ended up dropping out of high school before ninth grade and I never went back. From 14 to 17 years old I went and worked for Jeffrey instead of receiving an education. Every day I hoped that he would offer me a real job as one of his assistants or something, something important.

1:11:37 Matt: There we go.

1:13:15 Clip: I would finally have made it big as like we say the American dream. That day never came. I had no way out until he finally told me that I was too old. There are many pieces of my story that I can't remember no matter how hard I try. The constant state of wonder causes me so much fear and so much confusion. My therapist says that my brain is just trying to protect itself, but it's so hard to begin to heal knowing that there are people out there who know more about my abuse than I do the worst part is that the government is still in possession right now of the documents and information about the con that could help me remember and get over all of this maybe and help me heal they have documents with my name on them that were confiscated from Jeffrey Epstein's house and could help put the pieces of my own life back back together but I don't have any of it and I know the same is true for many of these women we are here to support this bill today not only for transparency but for the American people but if

1:14:48 Clip: The government is going to release these documents to the public describing the crimes committed by Jeffrey Epstein and others the least they can do is give me my documents that they have about me the The other survivors deserve the same respect from our government. While our identifying information must be redacted to the public, it is equally important to provide the victims themselves with unredacted information. I will never forget when the FBI agent showed up in my door in 2008.

1:15:21 Clip: Jeffrey Epstein hired a lawyer to represent me, or more like to represent him, I'd like to say. I couldn't ask any questions, and I had no idea what was going on. I was terrified. Until today, I think most of us are still terrified. I thought somebody was going to kill me. I thought something was going happen to my sister or my mother. It went further out to even maybe thinking something would happen in Brazil with my family.

1:15:51 Clip: And then one day, the lawyer said that everything was just going to go away, like nothing happened. I didn't need to testify. Testify when I asked him why he gave no explanation that was it so why why was I never called to testify then we could have saved so many women we could save so many lives from being abused why did he get away with it in 2008 why was he able to go on in the abuse with hundreds of girls after the Florida investigation. Why didn't they let me testify to help stop him? Our government couldn't have saved could have saved so many women but Jeffrey Epstein was too important and those women didn't matter. Why?

1:16:41 Clip: Well we matter now. We are here today and we are speaking and we're not gonna stop speaking.

1:16:50 Clip: Today I stand here with the women who have really helped me to find the strength to come out and come forward to share my story for the very first time. Together we are stronger than ever. While she may not be with us, Virginia Roberts, we will continue to use our voices to strengthen yours always. Thank you.

1:17:21 Matt: There you go. Just the contrast with what with Megyn Kelly. It's just,

1:17:25 Thomas: I didn't even think of the fact that they don't have records that apply to them. That's interesting. What happens in a normal trial? Like, let's just say a criminal trial. There's evidence related to you as a victim, do you ever have a right to see all that no matter what? Like, or what normally happens there?

1:17:47 Matt: Yeah, I mean, I don't know about Florida, but pretty much every state has and the federal government have victim rights statutes that you have a right to an attorney, you have the right to get copies of things to get the discovery. And I hadn't thought of that either until I heard her say this, that there's things that she doesn't know that she can't remember and that to move on and to even try to heal from this, you have to be able to see for yourself.

1:17:58 Lydia: Awful

1:18:05 Matt: It's really powerful.

1:18:05 Thomas: Because like I had heard that the thing and I get the thing where it's like, well, we're not going to release anything that's like child abuse material. Like I get that. But then you think, well if you were the victim, don't you have entitlement to whatever – somebody obviously is seeing this stuff, the authorities.

1:18:19 Matt: Your own? Yeah.

1:18:24 Thomas: They should be able to say, okay, well this applies to this person and they should have a right to see it, right? Or to at the very least get hands on their own stuff, right. But they just got all sealed away for some reason.

1:18:38 Matt: Like she said, as Brett Edwards said, a lot of protective orders, a lot of confidential deals, a lots of agreements. But in these civil suits too, that have kept a lot of things from coming out. So there's a lot more to talk about legally with the civil suits.

1:18:49 Thomas: So I'm glad. Yeah. I was going to maybe cut that first thing, but maybe I'll keep it in because it was interesting that the first guy, um, yeah. Cause it sounds like two things. It sounds like there's stuff they've seen that we haven't. Right.

1:18:54 Matt: It's a good summary. Yeah.

1:19:02 Thomas: It sounds Like there's a ton of stuff, Matt. And then it also sounds like she's saying there's a bunch of stuff they haven't seen that they know exists and it's kind of two different things and And all of that should come out, you know? So what's the status of this? Eventually, fucking Dingus McGee, whoever's our house speaker guy.

1:19:01 Lydia: Mike

1:19:23 Thomas: Mike Johnson. He eventually had to swear that the person they got the votes. I love how they said this should be a, you know, an easy vote for basically everybody is like, no, actually, you You know, Mike Johnson had to keep someone from being sworn in forever to be the last vote. So what's going to happen with that is that we kind of started there. Is that that that vote went through, right?

1:19:22 Lydia: Johnson right

1:19:45 Matt: Promising a full vote very soon, and then it'll go to the Senate, and it has to go to president, unfortunately. But we do put him in the position of, yeah, yeah.

1:19:52 Thomas: But I mean, but fucking that's good. Like, honestly, at least get him on the record as blocking the release of the Epstein files, like at the very least. So does the yeah does does the doj thing we talked about the beginning impact that process oh

1:20:00 Lydia: Well yeah and

1:20:00 Matt: Just another impeachable act. Maybe he'll sign off on releasing whatever they can release other than... Because it says in the Epstein bill, and the one that the discharge petition covers, that it doesn't cover open investigations, right? That they don't have to release that. So maybe he can sign it and say, yeah, right,

1:20:18 Thomas: So I see so it's even worse so they'll sign it and then it's up to doj who we already know is committing basically fucking crimes in this cover -up and they'll release the same nothing they've already tried to release a bunch of times yeah

1:20:26 Lydia: Then they'll say sorry our hands are tied yeah

1:20:30 Matt: Or how would you like a second set of binders with stuff we've already seen?

1:20:34 Lydia: Exactly to hire right check uh yeah and get her to distribute it

1:20:35 Thomas: Man horrible wow okay well that's at least least we're armed with that knowledge. Like we know, you know, if we see that happen, we know we're not still not getting the whole picture. So glad we have that breakdown and thanks for going through this, Matt. I know there's still, still more, but we at least got through your, your kind of first batch, I guess, of this and we'll keep an eye on the story. But thanks, Matt, thanks, Lydia and fuck these people. And I just keep harping on, I mean, this, this really is still still getting to try like this. It hasn't gone away. It's been a long time that this has been among the top stories. It felt like Trump got a bit of a reprieve for some reason, like for a minute. And then now we're back. So that's good. Keep it up.

1:20:51 Matt: So much more. Yeah.

1:21:19 Thomas: Let's keep up that pressure, which is like, so it's so weird to be, you see Marjorie Taylor Greene, this footage and you're like, all right, you know what? Fucking in this day and age where we need everything we can get. It.

1:21:19 Matt: And he's fully lost Marjorie Taylor Greene as of now. So yeah.

1:21:30 Thomas: Thank you, Marjorie Taylor Greene, I guess. I don't know.

1:21:25 Lydia: I know yeah yeah yeah but

1:21:32 Matt: Well, and then to bring it around to Steve Bannon, he promoted QAnon and was happy to use QAnons for years, which told everybody, including Marjori Taylor Grene, fully bought bought into it, that there's this network of people, you know, abusing children and, you know, here she is coming to the truth.

1:21:44 Thomas: I don't think he's getting away from this. I, I don'T THINK HE'S GETTING AWAY FROM IT. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE 'LL BE ACTUAL CONSEQUENCES, BUT HE'S NOT, AT THE VERY LEAST, TRUMP IS NOT GETTING WHAT HE WANTS. HE'S not gettIng all of MAGA papering over this with him. He's not getting that, at the very least.

1:21:47 Matt: Feels like it.

1:21:47 Lydia: I mean it I

1:21:59 Matt: Hell yeah.

1:21:59 Lydia: Mean I mean it's bad enough that he had to call a meeting in the situation room right I mean like the situation room is yeah exactly so there it's it's bad enough that it's at that point, I guess.

1:22:05 Thomas: We'll invite Boebert to it, right? It's a situation, technically,

1:22:10 Lydia: Yeah, it is now officially a situation.

1:22:11 Matt: It certainly is

1:22:11 Thomas: Legally speaking. Wow. Yeah.

1:22:14 Matt: An impeachable situation.

1:22:16 Thomas: Unreal. All right. Yeah, reminding Congress that impeachment exists and they should use it.

1:22:16 Matt: Keep the pressure.

1:22:21 Lydia: Please.

1:22:21 Thomas: Yeah thanks everyone for listening, viewing. Thanks Matt. Thanks Lydia. And we'll keep an eye on it and we'll see you next time.

1:22:32 Clip: This has been Opening Arguments, produced by Thomas and Lydia Smith, with editing help from Peter Baird. The intro is by Thomas Smith. This outro is by Matt Cameron. Support the show at patreon.com/law. Contact us through Patreon or openarguments@gmail.com. Make sure to follow our Bluesky @OpenArgs. But most of all, please share the show. Thanks for listening.