Lively v. Baldoni 43 - But the Intimacy Coordinator Said You Have to Make Out With Me Right Now

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:01 Clip: All rise. Court is now in session. Court is reconvened. I may be seated. Maintain order. The federal rise to face the jury and harken to its verdicts.

0:00:26 Thomas: In gavelinos it's thomas that over there's lydia how you

0:00:30 Lydia: I have a gavel head and I'm ready to party.

0:00:32 Thomas: Doing it started like I have a gavel head and I'm not afraid to use it is what I thought you were saying but

0:00:33 Lydia: I am a gaivel head? No, I also have a gavelhead. Oh no, I'm ready to party. I'm ready. I don't know.

0:00:41 Thomas: I have a gavelhead then what do you what's the first part of that okay hi I have a ga velhead unrelated I'm ready to party weird all right

0:00:44 Lydia: It's just how I feel. I don' know. I'm just describing who I am as a person. Yeah, it's like me showing my ID to a bouncer. Let me in, please. I have a gaVEL head.

0:01:00 Thomas: All this time and that's the best you get no I'm just kidding it's been a it's It's been a minute for patrons. It's not a minute for normies, I guess, but I'm going to just forget the timeline split and we're going to combine timelines. We're back together, sort of.

0:01:11 Lydia: We're together again. Yeah.

0:01:13 Thomas: We've gone through several existential crises and other things, mental breakdowns over this. Man, this is killing us. This has given me reading through the entire Bible on a podcast memories, like flashbacks, because this is rough. We're going through the Wayfarer complaint. By now, this has been nine months old.

0:01:16 Lydia: Here's what you missed. Yeah. Wow.

0:01:33 Thomas: So it's always been the case in pretty much everything we do that because we do debunking stuff, it necessarily takes three to ten times longer than the bunking to begin with, than the bunk, I guess. And I guess I might have underestimated how exponential that becomes when you're dealing with this quantity of lies. So this is wearing on us. We just wanted to update everybody on what we're thinking, because this can't go on forever. Obviously, we're so far behind where we wanted to be in the timeline of this. But the thing is, I think this is going to trial. Like, I mean, you never know. And they always say it looks like that until parties settle. Yeah. And maybe that's true. But if this goes to trial, we're going to be so well positioned to cover that. And it's going to Be really interesting to have all this insight.

0:02:11 Lydia: Until it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. And all of you amazing listeners will be well positioned to absorb what's actually happening at trial based on all of the work that you did listening up to this, too. So well done.

0:02:31 Thomas: Hopefully it's not as much work to listen to it as it is for us to make it. But yeah, point taken. No, there's like a million things that have happened, obviously, between this complaint that we're not even through yet and now, and we just wanted to update that we're nicht going to like go through all of that to the same degree at all. I think what the plan is, is we need to move on to something else, but we also need to finish this. So how do we do both those things?

0:02:52 Lydia: Right.

0:02:53 Thomas: And we can barely manage this level of work as it is. And I think where we're going to do is we're need to finishe this complaint. Got to finish it. Just have to do it. Even though it sucks. I think it's the mother load. It's the trove of all the lies. And it really is the Rosetta Stone of all of the crap online. Line like we need to I personally just want to cover all of this and like know what all of it is because it's the same well they keep going back to and weirdly as much as I think the public is probably mostly either lost interest doesn't care anymore or probably might be on Blake's side there's like this growing supercell of people who are rabidly anti -Blake and pro -Baldoni that like it's weirdly it's growing a lot and it's one of the reasons we were covering this is seeing that that split reality is just very interesting to me. And I want to know more about that all the time. I want it. I wanna know what's going on. I'm gonna try to like talk to people on the other side with the facts

0:03:48 Thomas: In hand. And weirdly that subreddit mainly is like my main measure is growing to a degree that is like kind of alarming for how bad everything's gone for Baldoni.

0:03:57 Lydia: And I think the language has also become like more disturbing, too, like it's not just that it's growing. It's morphing into something that's like, I don't even know. It's so far beyond.

0:04:07 Thomas: I mean, it's been pretty bad the whole time, but I, but, I do think that as things get worse in reality for him, they have to escalate and escalate to be able to like explain it. Anyway, Anyway, all that is to say, I'm still very interested in all of this and we need to get through this complaint, but we're going to be starting on a new thing. I think alongside, we might do something as of right now, our thinking, once we get through this complaint. Which could be anywhere from, God, I don't know how much longer things is going to, we'll see. It's going to Be a little while, but not like that long. Yeah.

0:04:35 Lydia: There's a big portion of this complaint that's his New York Times complaint, which we've already covered.

0:04:39 Thomas: We've already done. Yeah.

0:04:39 Lydia: So, yeah. So I'm hopeful it's going to move along pretty quickly, but we'll see.

0:04:42 Thomas: I think what we'll probably do is switch to a half and half method. It. There'll be like few episodes on this topic and a few episodes on the other thing we're going to do per month. That's what we're thinking. And so just wanted to say if anyone's really feeling the slog of this, I hear you. I think there's plenty of people and maybe it's only the only people left listening are like, no, I love this. I want more.

0:05:06 Thomas: I wanna get through all of the stuff in the trial or in the all of this stuff in The Court Battle. And, so, I don't know. Sound off patrons. Sound of, but I think that's what were gonna switch to. We'd switch to more of a higher level view probably and cover, summarize more stuff to kind of catch up. It would be great to catch up to present time. I think we'll have to obviously skip a lot and not skip, but like do a 30 ,000 foot view of a lot or whatever.

0:05:19 Lydia: Like summarize movements on the docket. Yeah.

0:05:30 Thomas: I Think the plan is few episodes of that per month, few episodes of the other thing we're going to do. And hopefully that can maybe reinvigorate the project a bit and get back to the gaveling that these gavelinos want us to gavel. Or those gavelitos are all gone. It's only people are like, no, go through every single line of Wayfair Lively and then all all the other stuff. And if that's true, tell us in the Patreon, you know, that'd be good information to have, but I don't know.

0:05:55 Thomas: So that's the plan. Thanks for sticking with us today. What are we tackling? Where are we in the complaint?

0:05:55 Lydia: Well, we're still working through that 17 point list. We're going to kick off with point three, no spontaneous improvisation of scenes involving physical touching, simulated sex or nudity, which must be choreographed with intimacy coordinator. So we're moving along through that 17 point list with plenty of stuff within the narrative itself, but also using the attachment as we have been doing this entire time, going along and looking at additional quote unquote receipts that Baldoni's team had uploaded to their website and tried to put on the docket as well.

0:06:31 Thomas: It is really fun that they just, they fucked themselves over with that so badly. I don'T, did they not read it? Anyway, we'll get to it. I love it. So yeah, we're on point three in that list and that's where we'll begin. Let's see how far we get. All right. We're going to take our usual break. And now that we're all in the same timeline, I can say, thank you so much, patrons, for patronizing. Hope you enjoyed the way early content up until now, heretofore. And normies, get on that. Patreon .com slash gavelpod. You can have stuff early, you can skip the auto ads, and you can talk to us. Yeah, for sure. Let us know how you feel. And all right, so after this break, we'll get on with point three in Wayfarer V Lively.

0:07:02 Lydia: And it's, yeah, easier to talk to us. Let's do it.

0:07:19 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:07:19 Thomas: So let's go through point three, which was to remind everyone who probably has it memorized rise by now. This is the third item in the 17 point list, right? We're doing the 17 one, right, not the, okay. There is to be no spontaneous improvising of any scenes involving physical touching, simulated sex, or nudity. Scenes involving kissing, depictions of sexual intercourse, or any other physical touching must be contained in the screenplay as approved by Blake Lively, choreographed in advance in the presence of the intimacy coordinator, and may only proceed as as choreographed with the consent of all participants in advance.

0:07:31 Lydia: Yes, the 17. And they paraphrase this in their complaint as, Point three, no spontaneous improvisation of scenes involving physical touching, simulated sex, or nudity, which must be choreographed with intimacy coordinator.

0:08:06 Thomas: That's a weird way to phrase that.

0:08:08 Lydia: Yeah, I feel like they're leaving out some elements there, personally.

0:08:11 Thomas: We've already gone through this. We get the refusing to meet. I do think this could have been some sort of misunderstanding because, for one, when Justin Baldoni says, just hired intimacy coordinator who I love, will set you up to meet slash FT, FaceTime, I think, right? With her next week for intro. That's just intro. And Blake Lively says, I feel good. I can meet her when we start. Thank you, though.

0:08:25 Lydia: Mm -hmm. Yep. Mm -hm. Mm -hum. Yeah.

0:08:33 Thomas: Now, that seems entirely reasonably to be, hey, I don't need to do a quick like 10, 15 with someone like I'm fine just when we which I totally relate to. We've already said all this as a busy person, as I'm sure she's very busy. She's like, nope, trust you. Good. But we do get and I do think this might have been Justin Baldoni, maybe misunderstanding or miscommunicating because he does say he forwarded it to female producer. Producer, who I guess is Alex, just wanted to tell you about this. Seems she doesn't want to meet intimacy coordinator until we start, which may mess up the workflow, but I can still meet with her. Of course, producer says that's fine. If she doesn'T want to meet her now, you'll just have to walk her through what you and blank are thinking. Yeah.

0:09:14 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. I can't imagine that they are sitting there and choreographing every scene as part of this meeting. Even Justin Baldoni to Blake Lively characterized this as an intro like, hey, Blake, meet so -and -so, so -an -so meet Blake. You know, like, let's talk about our yeah, like our vision. What are we comfortable with in general? But it's it wasn't like, Hey, we're starting to choreograph these scenes. Do you want to join for the meeting? Yeah. Or like, sorry, Blake. We actually have a pretty tight timeline. Lines so we're going to be using this intro to also work through x y and z would really love for you to be there

0:09:23 Thomas: For intro. That's why I find this so confusing.

0:09:36 Thomas: Yeah, and he could have sent a message that was like, oh, well, I wanted you you to start actually like working on scenes like you could have sent that yeah it doesn't make any sense but the thing is based on this text I think this also isn't like a lie or anything I just it's just confusing why Baldoni did this this way like I don't get it like why it's clear you said next week for intro you know like just an intro and then he's like well that's will set us back but but why? I don't, very weird. Yeah.

0:10:05 Lydia: Yeah well and then even alex says that's fine if she doesn't want to meet her now you'll just have to walk her through what you and blank are thinking yeah like alex has raised the alarm in other scenarios that we've seen in these text messages where she's like hey this is a problem with like blake's revisions to the script like she has no problem expressing when And she thinks that there is going to be a problem and she does not think there is a problem here.

0:10:28 Thomas: Right. And there is a big blending that goes on. And this is so much of what Baldoni relies on and Friedman or whoever's writing this. They rely on just blending a bunch of stuff together and then responding to the points that they can respond to. And then you, the reader, or hopefully you didn't read it for one. They don't want anyone reading. And if you did read, hopefully it all blended together and you're like, oh, oh, they responded to that. But this is the switcheroo that we've done. There's several switcheroos, switcheseroo here. Because he says, as a result, many sex scenes were not written with simultaneous collaboration and input from both Lively and the intimacy coordinator, as Baldoni had long intended. But again, the allegation wasn't that the sex scenes were bad or something. That wasn't the allegration. The allegation was stuff that wasn't sex scenes. As Baldoni, in his own complaint, also said there hadn't been any intimate scenes. We just read that because he's like, there hadn't even been any intimate scenes, which is like, yeah, exactly. That's her point. There was intimate contact in stuff that shouldn't have been there. So her problem is this is getting improvised. So I'm not doing any other stuff that has any intimate contact without it being expressly discussed beforehand with the intimacy coordinator.

0:10:32 Lydia: So, yeah. Yeah. Right. Mm hmm. Right, because, yeah, I mean, from like her perspective at that point, it's like, hey, this could be like, you know, we're at the DMV kind of scene and you're going to try and do stuff like I don't know at this point. And so I can't trust you to just take the scene on paper anymore.

0:11:54 Lydia: And now she needs to be there all the time.

0:11:54 Thomas: Well, I don't even know how many of the actual written intimate scenes she complained about. So this is blending much together. And he also they also use this to say, well, this was why frequently he was discussing his private life and her private life sexually was because they were had to discuss these scenes because she didn't show up for the intro to the intimacy coordinator, which there's like a percentage of that that like maybe could be reasonable if it's like, oh, well I want the character to do this because I don't know in my experience such and such. That's one of those things where if it was just that and it was just him being like what's your thoughts and maybe if he went a little too far with personalizing it like oh what do you and Ryan do like that's definitely like over the line but if it was just out of like hey that's awkward no whereas this is he's trying to say that all happened because of there's no intimacy coordinator but also the time she alleges that happened most of them were like we were in a car you know it was the

0:12:50 Thomas: One where he said he like you know there's another one like there's other ones that it isn't during these scenes. So this is all just switcheroo. This is all just smoke and mirrors to try to get it to be something that it's not. And the times that she actually complained in ways that are relevant to his response to it is I don't know if there are any. Like I don'T know if he actually hits on any of them other than he does say. So actually you should read that. Why don't you read paragraph 85 real quick?

0:12:51 Lydia: With her driver and stuff. Yeah. Sure. Contrary to Lively's knowingly false claims, it was Lively who refused to meet with the intimacy coordinator to plan out their scenes, putting Baldoni in the awkward position of meeting alone with the Intimacy Coordinator and later relaying sex scene suggestions and plans to Livery in the Intomacy Coordinator's absence. These meetings often took place, at Lively'S insistence, in the couple's home. Yeah.

0:13:36 Thomas: Oh, so they did happen and often while Lively's husband was present is the rest of that. So it did happen so it sounds like you did have meetings about the intimacy coordinator stuff right but it's not lively he's not complaining about any of this so for him to go into this like these half these meetings took place at lively's insistence in the couple's home how is that relevant to anything does that respond to anything I gotta pull up her complaint

0:13:44 Lydia: Yeah. Just without the intimacy coordinator there. Right. Mm hmm. Yeah, the paragraph continues lively's method of work was unconventional and uncomfortable for Baldoni to suggest Baldoni was the one who created this scenario is knowingly false. And so I think, you know, it's talking about when he shared the notes from that meeting, and that he had he was doing so in her home and how uncomfortable that was for him, I guess.

0:14:20 Lydia: But I don't know. Again, again, it's not like she never met the intimacy coordinator. So couldn't those notes have been saved for when the when all three of you were together, when the thing had started and you were starting to kind of like choreograph the scenes a little bit? You could say like, oh, yeah, here's what I remember from the intro that I did with so -and -so Blake and so -on. So chime in if there's anything I'm missing from my recollection of that meeting.

0:14:44 Thomas: Yeah so the important thing is we we have to go back I know we've gone over everything so many times but because this is so much obfuscation and smoke and mirrors let's go back to what she's actually alleging because what this does, what this whole complaint does is it creates a false memory of what her complaint was and then demolishes that. So you're like, oh my God, she was lying, but it isn't actually what her complain is. So if I go back to her complaint, so under the big A heading of Justin Baldoni and Jamie Heath of Wayfair engaged in inappropriate and unwelcome behavior, et cetera, et cetera. There's a small A heading after a few paragraphs, Mr. Baldoni ignored well -established industry protocols and filming intimate scenes and exploited the lack of controls on set to behave inappropriately. So she says such safeguards ignored by Wayfair include providing performers with appropriate notice of nudity and simulated sex and ensuring that one, consent is given free of pressure or coercion. Two, sign nudity writers in place, spelling out the parameters of nudity or simulated sex scenes. Three, safe and secure working conditions that are not detrimental to performers' health and safety and morals and career. And four, the use of intimacy coordinators to observe intimate scenes. So to get more specific, she says, without these protections in in place, Mr. Baldoni improvised physical intimacy that had not been rehearsed, choreographed, or discussed with Ms. Lively, and no intimacy coordinator involved. For instance, Mr.-Baldoni discreetly bit and sucked on Ms .Lively's lower lip during a scene in which he improvised numerous kisses on each take. Mr.- Baldoni insisted on shooting the full scene over and over again, well beyond what would have been required. So she's alleging, just to make this very clear, she was alleging that this wasn't an intimate scene, and therefore there was no discussion with an intimacy coordinator, there wasn't that she didn't think she needed one. And he is improvising intimacy and she's saying this was never discussed. And so therefore these protections were not there. So for him to respond by saying, well, you refuse to do the intro with the intimacy coordinator, that's nothing. For him to then say the meetings often took place at her home. That's nothing. None of that is anything unless

0:15:59 Lydia: Mhm mhm mhm right right

0:16:44 Thomas: He wants to allege that he actually did run this by her or something, but I don't even think he's doing that. I mean, he could try maybe, but But I don't know. It seems like these meetings might have been like later anyway. So I'm not sure. Yeah, it makes it sound like he's responding.

0:17:00 Lydia: Yeah yeah they're just non sequiturs it has nothing to do with anything yeah

0:17:00 Thomas: Here's another one. And oh, OK. The other allegation was the slow dance scene. Blake alleges that he did something inappropriate there. Now, we've talked about the footage. Yeah, that is what it is. But again, there was no allegation that this was a intimate scene that they discussed, but then she had complaints about.

0:17:09 Lydia: Mhm in depth yeah

0:17:18 Thomas: It's a non -intimate scene that turned intimate, and she has a problem with that. So get her allegations right, and then feel free to respond. But instead, it relies on lying about what her allegations are.

0:17:18 Lydia: Mhm right exactly yeah that was my point about like you know it's a scene at the DMV you're waiting in line and like all of a sudden now there's a kiss that it's not in the script it wasn't discussed it like it is happening out of nowhere so yeah exactly like stop misconstruing what the complaint

0:17:44 Thomas: And here's the closest thing. So here is maybe what he might be responding to, which is the female gaze part, which is, B, Mr. Baldoni inserted improvised gratuitous sexual content and or scenes involving nudity into the film, including for an underage character in highly unsettling ways. Now, this is where I'm like, you know, he's the director, so I don't know what the rules are and whatever this is. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not totally sure the sequencing of how that all has to work. But at least as far as the allegation goes, 49, after Miss Lively signed on to the movie based on a draft of the script, Mr. Baldoni, without Miss Latively's knowledge or consent, personally added graphic content, including a scene which Miss Lifully was to orgasm on camera. When Ms. Lively objected to these additions, Mr. Baldoni insisted he had added them because he was making the film through the female gaze. Although he agreed to remove the scenes, he made a last -ditch attempt to keep one in which the couple orgasmed together on their wedding night, which he said was important to him because he and his partner climaxed simultaneously during intercourse. Mr. baldoni then intrusively asked Ms. lively whether she and her husband climaxed simultaneously during intercourse which miss lively found invasive and refused to discuss so then then the next thing is the birth scene so once again no intimacy coordinator because it wasn't an intimate scene although that

0:17:46 Lydia: Is yeah I consider

0:18:58 Thomas: One I'm not sure yeah

0:18:59 Lydia: That intimate I think that's an intimate scene

0:19:01 Thomas: I don't know why there was no intimacy coordinator that does seem like an intimate seen

0:19:03 Lydia: I don't know why you wouldn't just err on the side of caution too

0:19:07 Thomas: But again he has never said that there was one it's never been like well she said there wasn't one here during the birth seen and she's lying there was when he never says that so that's how you know they fucked up and didn't have an intimacy coordinator when there's a birthing scene and the only way they can try to respond to that is by saying well you didn't meet with her or something but there's nothing to do with

0:19:26 Lydia: Yeah don't you also think like if you're shooting a scene and the expectation for that scene is that it's a closed set is that it's inherently intimate

0:19:28 Thomas: Anything yeah you would think it's weird that there wasn't an intimacy coordinator there I don't get why huh and so I guess in terms of the like inserting scenes in I suppose like that's where this is kind of could be a response if she's alleging he tried to get these scenes in and for one I don'T know like I DON'T know how strong that claim is other than And I guess in terms of being one of a pattern of like little, you know, we've talked about from the very beginning, sexual harassment either has to be one big event, a very severe event or a bunch of little events.

0:20:03 Lydia: Severe yeah pervasive yeah

0:20:08 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. And so I suppose because like I don't I don'T know if by itself this would be anything. It was like, well, the director wants to put these scenes in. And I said, no. So they weren't. You know what I mean? I don' t know if I itself that would be enough to like win a case over necessarily. But I don''t know. I' m not the lawyer, but I don ''t think so. But just as a pattern. So if he's going to defend himself by saying, well, no, I discussed these with the intimacy coordinator, but you weren't there or something. I don't, I don' know. I guess that would come down to like, well what does the intimacy coordinators say? Like, are we going to hear from them? Are they going to corroborate? I feel like I would need to know which scenes and which things, because he, he isn't specific. He just says, well no, I just did that based on the intimacy coordinate. But she is being specific about like, Like there was this scene with an orgasm. I didn't want to do it, et cetera, et cetera.

0:20:51 Lydia: Yeah. Well, he definitely like within his timeline exhibit, he has some verbiage here where he is saying that the notes from his meeting with the intimacy coordinator would, quote, later become the basis for Lively's complaint in which she states that Baldoni would talk about his own sex life and insert gratuitous scenes with Lively character orgasming. And so they're kind of pivoting and saying like, no, it wasn't actually Baldoni and Lively having a conversation. It was Baldoni sharing notes that he took down from this meeting. And here's the proof. Here's the picture of the notes that He took when he met with the intimacy coordinator. And I think that that is another attempt at misdirection, right? Because both of those things could be true. True. Yes, he wrote orgasm down on paper while he was talking with the intimacy coordinator and discussing some ideas there. And also he could have overshared and asked invasive questions. And so reducing that to these two pages of notes that he took from the intimacy coordinator meeting, it really does feel like misdirection. And when you look at the note pages, too, it's I don't know, all of this is just weird.

0:21:55 Thomas: Okay. So it's always smart to go back to that timeline, which has stuff that I, you know, may or may not help his case sometimes hurts his case. So this is interesting in terms of a response. I don't know why you would put this in this stupid inadmissible document and not in the complaint. So we get May 22nd. Lively and Baldoni perform a scripted kissing scene. So that would kind of contradict her, so I think this could be important to look at. But if so, I don't know why this isn't in the complaint, unless maybe it is. Okay. A scripted kissing scene in which their characters get engaged at the hospital. In the sequence, Lively pulls Baldonian to kiss her. It is clear Lively was initiating the kissing. In one take, she pulls Baldorian and kisses him once, in another twice. Lively determined the number of kisses based on what she felt necessary for the scene, though Lively improvised the number. The number of Kisses in the scene. Make no mistake, the kiss itself was written into the script and was in no way improvised wait what contrary to lively's crd complaint there was no inappropriate improvised kissing on set any improvisation was made by lively herself oh it says note no intimacy coordinator was present on set for this day as a standard when two professional actors with over three decades of combined working experience perform a scene in which only kissing is involved in no other intimacy nudity or simulated sex is required furthermore during preparations, Lively and her attorneys did not indicate in her nudity writer that she wanted an intimacy coordinator present for scenes involving only kissing. Instead, in line with industry practice, focused solely on bringing one on for the simulated sex and nudity scenes.

0:23:28 Lydia: But then that's still to your earlier point where it's not about the scenes in which she was aware that kissing was happening it's the scenes in which there was no awareness of kissing happening

0:23:41 Thomas: Yes, and it's also that when she's going to come back to work, she's making an increased demand. So she's saying, hey, if I'm going to comes back to the office, I'm not going to be able to work, I want an intimacy coordinator like fucking everywhere, like in every closet and every whatever and then he's taking that to say ah but you didn't ask for that before I was like yeah because that was before I got sexually harassed so

0:24:01 Lydia: I don't feel safe on set anymore more

0:24:01 Thomas: It's yet another switcheroo yeah and so they they take that to mean well she's alleging that we were supposed to have one all the time and we didn't but that you know this is just her asking for extra protection to come back to set so it tricky because there's gonna be stuff that we just don't we can't really evaluate because it's like I think they're talking past each other most of the time I think that's intentional but here I I just don't know. Because if she says he improvised intimacy that hadn't been rehearsed and bit and sucked on Lively's lower lip, that's what she says. And he says, no, this was fully scripted. It was this scene in which they got together in the hospital and she was the one. That one seems pretty weak to me because he keeps saying she improvised it. Well, it was written in the script, but she improvized the number of kisses.

0:24:46 Thomas: But then it cites a script page that says she kisses him all over his face. So it's like, well, that doesn't specify a number. It's not like it's said like they kiss exactly once and she did three times. So that's trying to do like a no, you're the sexual harasser, but super weak. I guess we'd have to see if Baldoni's right and that's the scene and he has proof that she did it, then yeah, maybe that would be good and she would be wrong on that. But I also just don't know if that's The Right Scene. Like it seems like in times past, he's pulling a fast one and it's like he's talking about a different thing. So I think that we just have to wait and see. But I keep coming back to like, I don't think she would have complained if it was her doing this. Again, you have to have the backing assumption that she's faking something to get something in order for this to make sense. Or she's insane. You have to think one of those two things.

0:25:34 Thomas: But I'm like, well, if she had a problem with stuff, it's probably not a problem with her doing stuff. It's probably you doing stuff, so if you want to think she's faking and lying, I think that's a tall order, and I think you would need a lot of proof to want to thank something so insane, especially with all the evidence that goes counter to that about how much she obviously was bothered and cared and whatever. Ever. And it could be that maybe there's things in here she misremembered. Like that's, I don't know how you would write a complaint perfectly with remembering everything that happened in the right order. Like there's going to be places you can pick apart in a complaint about behavior over time. She's bound to have gotten some stuff wrong, but that doesn't mean nothing happened. It just means you're not being the perfect, like photographic memory victim, butthat shouldn't be the standard. Yeah, exactly. So I don' know how to evaluate that. Like maybe this part is is responsive in Baldoni's complaint. Maybe it is, but we can't really tell. I mean, it seems like she's talking about a different scene, but I don't know. Especially if he's citing that it was written into the script and she's saying it wasn't. Well, it sounds like maybe they're talking about a difference scene because I don' t think she would claim that if it was in black and white written into this script. All right, so you had talked about notes from the intimacy coordinator. I'm curious to get a look at these. So now that we're on the topic of the intimacy co -ordinator, we can go to the part in the timeline you were talking about. Do you want to read, I guess, the April 21st entry there?

0:26:15 Lydia: Which is basically being a human yeah right yeah yes Baldoni meets with the intimacy coordinator to discuss how to shoot the sex scenes it was important to him that the intimacy coordinator be a woman to help craft sex scenes that would speak to the book's mostly female audience I .e. be written from the quote female male gaze so tired of reading that so already he's saying to discuss how to shoot the sex scenes but what he told blake was was it was an intro an introduction right

0:27:05 Thomas: Yeah. Well, yeah, if this is even the same thing, I don't know.

0:27:13 Lydia: His notes from this meeting are pictured below and were later shared with Lively during one of their script writing meetings at her New York apartment these notes would later become the basis for Lively's complaint in which she states that Baldoni would talk about his own sex life and insert gratuitous scenes with Lively's character orgasming as seen in the notes these mentions come directly from the intimacy coordinator's notes quote goes down on her quote orgasm quote foreplay quote the clit test Ideally these conversations would have taken place directly between Lively and the intimacy coordinator directly as Baldoni had requested he didn't request

0:27:23 Thomas: See, that's overstating it. Test directly. No, I didn't. For an intro. I don't know that any part of her complaint complains about that, does it? There' s nothing where she says in the penthouse. Yeah. Yeah.

0:27:51 Lydia: That however lively declined to meet with her leaving baldoni in the less than ideal position of having to relay these notes to lively in her penthouse no I know I don't I don' t think so that's what I'm saying it's like Like both of those things can be true that you wrote down this as part of your notes from that meeting. And also you expressed things in an environment that made her uncomfortable that wasn't you whipping out your notebook and saying on the 21st of April.

0:28:17 Thomas: Maybe this is nothing too, but he says how to shoot the sex scenes, but that doesn't seem right. It seems like this is, they're still writing it because then later they're still doing script writing meetings. I feel like the process of an intimacy coordinator discussing how to shoot them would take place like on the day, wouldn't it? God, I can't fucking read any of it. Oh, okay.

0:28:23 Lydia: Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is also, you can tell in his notes it is not about shooting the scenes. It's talking about, you know, some things that they could play around with. I can read a lot of this, actually. Intimacy coordinator meet before I

0:28:47 Thomas: Intimacy cover, meet bar fare, They're safely, comfort, helping build the steaminess.

0:28:53 Lydia: Think it's supposed to be safety comfort

0:28:59 Thomas: Oh, okay. I can do this. Give the fans, he capitalizes the first letter of some of the words.

0:29:04 Lydia: The strangest letters yeah yeah

0:29:08 Thomas: Give the fans what they want. Sex in Vegas,

0:29:11 Lydia: ECU I don't know what that is. Yeah

0:29:13 Thomas: Without showing anything. What is sex in Vegas? Is there a Vegas scene?

0:29:18 Lydia: I think there's a Vegas scene

0:29:21 Thomas: When is there a Vegas scene?

0:29:22 Lydia: I don't think there is sex in that scene though right or did that get cut

0:29:23 Thomas: What would that even be? I have no memory of Vegas scene. I don't know what it would be. I don't like, they don't they don't travel do they? Am I crazy? Like oh

0:29:28 Lydia: Oh yeah yeah no I think so I think it's cut because it says the Vegas scene in the book, they elope to Vegas for a quick ceremony. In the movie, Raul proposes to Lily in the hospital shortly after Alyssa gives birth and the father officiates the wedding. Let's see. So, yeah. So in the book, the Vegas scene is when they get married.

0:29:53 Thomas: And so that could be the wanting to orgasm together thing.

0:29:56 Lydia: And then they redid it in the movie so it happened after Jenny Slate gave birth. A brief scene of the wedding is shown, but the location is not specified. So, yes. I think it got cut. Right.

0:30:05 Thomas: Okay so that's supposed to be like the wedding night sex that he wanted to do. Yeah I mean this could be a place where her claim is slightly weak if it's like well I just don't know. You know, I think we would need more because it could be true that he talked to an intimacy coordinator about a sex scene in Vegas that he wanted to do but she didn't want to do that. Like that could all be true. And it wouldn't matter like if it wasn't in the draft of the script that she read so in the complaint says after Miss Lively signed on to the movie based on a draft of the script Mr. Baldoni without Miss Lively's knowledge or consent personally added graphic content including a scene in which Miss Lively was to orgasm on camera this is one where I could see him like maybe some parts of this I think he could have a point you know if it's like well this might have been a misunderstanding I don't know like maybe he just wasn't maybe he didn't have any reason to think he couldn't do that like I could say I've said it from the beginning when you're the victim of sexual harassment and you have to build your case, you're going to throw everything in there because you have to establish a pattern. And maybe some of the stuff will be, well, that was genuinely a misunderstanding. Sure. It doesn't make any of it a lie or less valid.

0:31:04 Thomas: It might be that was something that bothered her that maybe the jury would be like, well. I don't know about that one, but if there's 10 others, then fine.

0:31:11 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. And that could also be like some lawyering there, too, where he wanted her to orgasm on camera. And it's like, well, you know, those were conversations that he had with the intimacy coordinator. But obviously, if she wasn't comfortable doing that, they would have written it in a way that she could support. You know, like I think it would have all turned out way differently if there weren't the sexual harassment on set.

0:31:30 Thomas: Yeah, so this is a lot of this stuff about this Vegas scene that didn't happen. Vegas scene, funny sex position that doesn't look work. Work. Oh, that doesn't work. They switch. She misses. Oh Jesus. What? She misses when she lowers herself. You're going to put that in him. That doesn't, I don't. That doesn't seem like something you could put. Am I crazy?

0:31:38 Lydia: That doesn't work. Mm hmm. Mm hmm? You've got it. She misses when she lowers herself. So, yeah, they They laugh. A new position that's super awkward.

0:31:56 Thomas: How are we going to even do that?

0:31:56 Lydia: And then here's the other thing, too, because there's been a lot of conversation about the rating that this needed to be a PG-13 movie. How are you going to do that as a PG-13 movie? I don't think Sony is going to be supportive of this. Right. Right.

0:32:01 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's not doable. Here's the other thing I would be curious. I want to know, have we heard from, well, okay. At this point we haven't heard from the intimacy coordinator for all we know, no, these are his notes of what he wants to talk about with the intimacy coordinator. And she's like, what? You can't fucking do that.

0:32:22 Thomas: You know, like for all we know, I don't know.

0:32:24 Lydia: Well, and it could be like as they're talking, he's like, oh, or what about this? And like starts writing his idea down because he wants to share it with Blake later and the intimacy coordinator. This isn't her signing off on this or anything like that. And also an intimacy coordinator wouldn't be able to sign off on behalf of Blake Lively and her consent.

0:32:40 Thomas: And it's kind of like if you've hired an intimacy coordinator at this stage, I think it would be you're telling them what you want to do. And they're being like, OK, well, you'd have to do it this way. Or, you know, Like, I know that this means that for sure everything discussed here was like fine in accordance with her contract or what she agreed to do or even what a PG -13 film could could be: she lowers herself she misses when she lowers herself, they laugh a new position that is super awkward like 'what?' That's not

0:33:08 Lydia: So, that's three positions that are super awkward and we have to get details of like.

0:33:12 Thomas: That is like then what's he [doing]

0:33:14 Lydia: I think it's he finishes.

0:33:14 Thomas: What's that he finishes then goes down on her or she comes and then he says no that was enough oh that was the like oh she finishes but he doesn't and that was the thing where she was like, 'oh, that would' be weird

0:33:29 Lydia: And I mean, I think he probably did share like these as ideas with the intimacy coordinator. And then the intimacy coordinator probably responded with his very next note on there, which says 48 hours in advance per SAG guidelines.

0:33:40 Thomas: Yeah, that's like boxed too which I love because I could almost imagine her being like yeah so make sure you give notice because this stuff is like fucking crazy like I don't know this isn't in movies like I'm not trying to be a prude they don't put this stuff in major films like they just don't there's not like a bunch of intimate depiction of who comes exactly when and they talk about it like that doesn't peachy

0:34:03 Lydia: And again, and beyond that, what are we supposed to be doing from this film from a storytelling perspective? What does the sex add? Yeah, it doesn't add anything to the entire story of this. And especially if we're talking about from the

0:34:07 Thomas: 13 uh they're boning yeah it's nothing thing. No.

0:34:18 Lydia: Female gaze, that is not that. That is not going to be, I don't even know how you would do that from a female gaze.

0:34:20 Thomas: Well, I think it's funny because it seems like, okay, look, if it's true that that all just came from the intimacy coordinator, because that's what he tries to say. So she accuses Baldoni of insisting Lively do uncomfortable or gratuitous scenes, scenes that were in fact proposed by the intimacy coordinator. And by all accounts, very typical asks of any actor performing simulated sex scenes. Those are absolutely not. And then it says this is well documented in handwritten notes Baldoni took during meetings with the intimacy coordinator and later read to Lively yeah and it's like maybe the intimacy coordinator did suggest that I don't know maybe he was like hey give me some things that would be very like from the female perspective friendly and she's like okay it might be

0:34:54 Lydia: And it never says intimacy coordinator suggested this for the scene could do something like this

0:35:11 Thomas: Like she finishes but you don't in some way or it's it's likely prioritizing her orgasm or something or like I could really imagine he was coming up with these fucking ideas I don't know like I wouldn't we need to hear from the intimacy coordinator I don't know that we have but at least at this point in the complaint we have haven't.

0:35:26 Lydia: And then like contrast that page with the other one the previous page in the same image where it says details details details space in between kisses inside of wrists earlobes it's much more like romantic and like small and

0:35:39 Thomas: Oh yeah, it says push and pull foreplay. Yeah.

0:35:41 Lydia: Like yeah exactly and then you contrast that with But the next page where he finishes then goes down on her or she comes and then he says no. Like it's just, yeah, it's like it's coming from two different people. I find it hard to believe that what is written on that second page are words that came out of the intimacy coordinator's mouth.

0:35:47 Thomas: Oh yeah. She misses when she lowers her, like it's what? Yeah.

0:36:00 Thomas: Or if they are, it's again, it is not the intimacy coordinator's job to be like, what's the fucking rating on this thing exactly? And what, what is going to be, like, this is before it is even written fully. It could be like hey, let's just talk sexy stuff. Here's some ideas. And that doesn't mean that it would be something that Lively agreed with. Now, again, some amount of this, it could be a misunderstanding. I don't know. Like some amount of this could genuinely just be like he was in good faith trying to do something with an intimacy coordinator maybe like for some of the stuff I could see maybe but also none of that was in for one that seems not in the movie so something happened what happened sounds like she didn't want to do it and they took it out in which case it would be weird to say like a defense to that wouldn't be but I discussed it with the intimacy

0:36:06 Lydia: Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly. Right. Right.

0:36:42 Thomas: Coordinator because that wouldn't matter it'd be like no I didn't agree to do this sex scene to begin with doesn't matter how you craft it. I didn't agree to do that kind of thing. And that, I don't know if that's sexual harassment per se, but it's at least like an item on this list.

0:36:54 Lydia: And then funnily, just, you know, because we're here in the timeline, the following day is when he asked her trainer how much she weighs. Yeah.

0:37:01 Thomas: About the weight. Yeah, that's funny. I wonder why. I under why. That's like, no, you know, that's actually interesting. If the thing they were just doing before he was just doing that day was nudity stuff. Yeah.

0:37:11 Lydia: Let's talk about sex positions. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

0:37:13 Thomas: And he's going to say, well, no it's for this lift. That's a totally different scene that I was worried about that doesn't exist. I don'T know. Like this is kind of almost a little little bit it's not dispositive but like this makes me think his mind was in nudity sex scene vegas like all that kind of stuff and he's like

0:37:29 Lydia: She's got to lose some weight.

0:37:29 Thomas: Yeah I wonder how much she weighs right now that's

0:37:31 Lydia: Yeah yeah. Yeah like literally the very next day.

0:37:33 Thomas: Like the same fucking day right or the next day uh yeah the very next day interesting interesting it would lend more credibility to her theory I think slightly

0:37:41 Lydia: Yeah I agree.

0:37:51 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:37:51 Thomas: Why don't you read us paragraph 88 because this might shed some more light on

0:37:53 Lydia: In support of what Lively positioned as the impetus for these demands, she alleges Baldoni personally added, quote, graphic content, including a scene in which Miss Lively was to orgasm on camera. This is false. During a creative meeting, which Lively requested to take place in her home, Baldoni read to her his notes from the intimacy coordinator, including the suggestion that Lively's character orgasm during the scene similar to the book. Lively remarked, quote, oh, no, I'm too old for that. And Baldoni offered another suggestion instead, also from his notes from the meeting with the intimacy coordinator. Baldoni then moved on.

0:38:09 Thomas: It doesn't matter so that's interesting because that seems to pretty much corroborate her story. Now, again, I don't know what level of anything this is. You might be able to say, yeah, that happened and I suggested that, but what's the big deal? She said no. And like, honestly, I think a jury would be like, yeah. That's Hollywood actor. You propose something. She said, no, like maybe that, but this does at least legitimize her version of the story, which is nothing to do with no intimacy coordinators and the blah and the notes and the whatever. And it isn't a defense to say like, if you've signed someone on and that you've had some understanding again this would be a matter of determining the evidence for this but if she is saying if her claim is that this wasn't anything she agreed to when she signed on there wasn't going to be any like orgasm scene and his defense is well I met with somebody who I asked about an orgasm seen or he acts like the intimacy coordinator was writing the movie like I just went in there and she's like what if blake orgasmed you know like that's not the intimacy coordinator again is going to consult based on what you're giving them So if Baldoni, I still think there's a chance he just fucking came up with all that shit. Who knows? But even if not, if he's like, okay, what would be a really good female, gay -centric sex scene? That doesn't matter if the intimacy coordinator made that suggestion. If that's not something she was ever going to do, why is he even asking about that? You know, like if she has signed on

0:39:45 Thomas: Under the understanding that there's not going to be this sex scene, it's not really a defense to say, well, before I proposed it, I ran it by an intimacy coordinator. It's like no, I didn't agree to do that. Like imagine if it was just nudity, by the way, just to sub that in. Imagine an actress signed on to a movie, and as I imagine is probably a pretty important part of negotiations, was like, no, I'm not getting topless. And then the director is like talking to the intimacy coordinator and was like oh what if she got topless here, yeah, no that'd be great. And then comes to her and is like, so we were thinking you'd get topless for this, like it doesn't matter that he talked to an intimacy coordinator, I didn't agree to do that.

0:40:16 Lydia: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it's just so interesting to me, too, like thinking about this. He clearly wanted this scene in there and had some ideas about how he wanted it to look. Yeah.

0:40:25 Thomas: Yeah, he wrote extensively in his private fucking diary about it.

0:40:28 Lydia: And perhaps this creative meeting is him pitching her on like, hey, what if we that scene in the book?

0:40:34 Thomas: Mm hmm. Yeah.

0:40:34 Lydia: You know, she didn't read the book, whatever. I don't know. But there's a scene in The Book where they actually get married in Vegas. I'd love to bring that into the movie. I was talking with the intimacy coordinator about it. And we had some ideas. Like, what do you think? Like, let's chat about could this fit into this version of the movie? And he's giving her his ideas and pitching her. Her on them and she's like no I'm not doing that I'm not comfortable with that

0:40:53 Thomas: I think to put a finer point on it, as I'm imagining this, I think it in my mind is further illustrating the deception going on here that Baldoni is doing because he's acting like an intimacy coordinator is someone you go to and you're like, OK, what sex should be in this? And then they just tell you all these scenes that should be in it.

0:41:02 Lydia: Right right the sex director yeah

0:41:12 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. And that's like you've offloaded that you've you've outsourced anything. Anything. But in reality, if he's saying, okay, what created this situation was I had to meet with the intimacy coordinator alone. And then I had relay the stuff, but imagine they were in the meeting together, all three of them. And Baldoni's like, hey, so what if we did this sex scene in Vegas? How should we do that intimacy coordinator? And Blake is like, I'm not doing that.

0:41:35 Thomas: It wouldn't have been better. It would have been different. It still would come from him. It's not as though the intimacy coordinator was like, I've got a great idea for you guys. How about a sex scene In Vegas? There's no fucking chance that that's how it goes. They're there to consult on what you give them.

0:41:46 Lydia: Right and to advocate for the actors right and their consent

0:41:49 Thomas: Right. And so it is a misdirect to say that this is a product of it not being the three of them discussing it. It's not. Because even if they had been the three OF them discussing IT, if he is suggesting, and maybe she's lying or something, but if we're go with her accusation, if it's that he's suggesting stuff that she never had agreed to, that's like extra sex scenes, it doesn't matter if he had done that in front of an intimacy coordinator. It still would have been the same thing. It is trying to trick us into to believing it came from the intimacy coordinator. Yeah.

0:42:16 Lydia: Who was a woman so how could it have been wrong

0:42:18 Thomas: It's sort of like, treat it like it's chat GPT, just in case my point isn't clear. If he was like, hey, chat GPG, write me a really hot, steamy sex scene. And then Blake's like, I never agreed to do a hot, steamy, sex scene like this, but he's like oh, well, but it came chat GP T. You told it to do that. Like that's what the misdirect is, I think.

0:42:33 Lydia: Right yeah yeah yeah I think that's

0:42:38 Thomas: So then we get stuff about the film and we've already done that, the bar scene. So I think this is hopefully we can skip. Yeah, go listen to that. Let's see if there's anything different in the allegations here because we hadn't read this at the time. 89 starts with an annoying thing where he says, Lively's later complaint sheds light on what this point was alluding to in the demand, which at the Time was baffling. But like you've already said, we're still on point three, right?

0:42:38 Lydia: Fair yeah the romance montage we did an entire episode on that yeah

0:43:00 Thomas: We haven't changed points. You've already said like 40 things about it. So that why you already know what it was about. What are you talking about? Now he's trying to do another misdirect where he's, he's trying to make it all based on one thing, which had the Time was bafling. And upon review of the filmed evidence is unequivocally based on a lie. Production was filming a romance montage of Lily and Ryle on their date. One of the producers played music to set the mood, blah, blah. This is a bar scene.

0:43:21 Lydia: Yeah and I think we did talk about some of this stuff because we were like you have the footage and you're like misquoting what is even in the

0:43:28 Thomas: Right. That's true. Yeah, and then just another example of the obfuscation here. We're trying to skip through the bar scene stuff, but just to say one thing. Lively took them out of character again and joked that Baldoni should undergo a rhinoplasty. Baldoni laughed it off. Footnote 18. Lively alleges Baldoni inappropriately commented on her physical appearance. It was the other way around. But she didn't allege that. Unless he's saying that was the thing where she had the hoodie on or whatever the um yeah the hoodie over the that's the only other thing because in the bar scene she didn't allege that

0:43:32 Lydia: Footage no yeah no I think I think they must be pulling from a different example but like hey if you feel that strongly about it that the allegation is wrong then go ahead and cite it direct us to where in her complaint she alleges that and there's no citation you feel so confident that you're destroying this bit by bit then show me show me draw the lines to what you are talking about where and how it's wrong

0:44:19 Thomas: Yeah he is purposefully confusing things because here is the entire it's one paragraph actually in her complaint that's this it says on another occasion mr baldoni and miss lively were filming a slow dance scene for a montage in which no sound was recorded mr baldani chose to let the camera roll and have them perform the scene but did not act in the character's rile and said he he spoke to Miss Lively out of character as himself. At one point, he leaned forward and slowly dragged his lip from her ear down to her neck and said, it smells so good. None of this was remotely in character or based on any dialogue in the script and nothing needed to be said because again, there was no sound. Mr. Baldoni was caressing Miss Lively with his mouth in a way that had nothing to do with their roles. When Miss Lively later objected to this behavior, Mr. and it says Mr. Baldoni. Mr. Baldy's response was, I'm not even attracted to you. Do you see anything about comments on her physical appearance in there?

0:44:27 Lydia: Yeah no

0:45:04 Thomas: Nope, because it's not there. This is him talking about a different thing, but blending it together and responding in a way that's misleading because she didn't allege that there. And so if you are saying, ah, I've got a big gotcha, you were the one who said I should get a nose job. It's like, well, but that wasn't the allegation in that section. She didn't allege the fact that he commented on her appearance. That's a different allegation.

0:45:24 Thomas: And also, by the way, not for nothing, if you're just talking, oh, comments on physical appearance, like a joke about a nosejob. Yeah, I think that's kind of in poor taste, but we've talked about about that but that's a different thing than being like hey sexy take off your hoodie like that's or whatever you know like I want to see your cleavage like that's not

0:45:33 Lydia: Oh yeah well we yeah we both agree that that's gross yeah yeah I mean you could say like a like hostile work environment or something like

0:45:46 Thomas: Yeah like a negative comment about physical appearance might be bad and I guess in some contexts could be sexual harassment but if you're trying to do a like oh no you did it those are two way different things her joking like oh well time to get a nose job yeah that's insulting maybe and you can if he was was upset with that, but sure. But for him to say that was actually the sexual or something versus what he's alleged to have done, which is to say, hey, take off your hoodie so we can see your boobs essentially. Like those are very different.

0:46:15 Thomas: So I guess that's that. Again, go back and listen to the Varstein one if you want. We talked way more about that. Point four though, we're on to point four. All right, now they're going to respond to point four and I'll go ahead and read the actual point here. Physical touching and or comments on BL's physical appearance must only be Done slash made in connection with the character and scene work, not as to BL personally, except as written into the screenplay or as strictly required in connection with makeup or costume preparation, there is to be no physical touching, including hugging, of BL, her on -set personnel, and or her employees.

0:46:12 Lydia: That yeah yeah incredibly different now okay in their narrative point four is and I'm just gonna do this side by side like we just did this is how they sum it up from their perspective no physical touching of lively including hugging or comments on her physical appearance except in connection with the character and or scene work not as to lively personally but they're leaving out a key part of this where lively included her staff I think that's a little suspect personally because from lively's complaint we know that there were instances in which her staff were made to feel uncomfortable with

0:47:19 Thomas: Yeah. You know, I was going to say, on one hand, I Was like, well, it's like Lively's the one suing, so you can't sue on behalf of someone else. But interesting thought I just had was I do think in terms of retaliation, I feel like that absolutely applies if you complained about behavior towards other people as well.

0:47:36 Thomas: You know, if I complain, hey, someone's sexually harassing this other person and the person doing it retaliates against me for reporting it, that would still be part of it. I don't know exactly how that matters here. It's in her complaint, but I guess they're kind of leaving that out of there. So sort of interesting. And it seems really, we noted, it seems very specific in her complaint. There's no reason that would be there unless she actually witnessed it happening and had a problem with it.

0:47:30 Lydia: Hugging yeah yeah yeah or an employee expressed to her that they had a problem with it yeah directly

0:48:06 Thomas: Well, how do they explain this? Well, they say none of that happened, I guess. That's fine.

0:48:08 Lydia: Yeah exactly this very first sentence right here I'm going to read it. To be clear, none of the named parties touched Lively when not in character, especially not in the manner suggested. That honestly is insane to me. There is no way that Justin Baldoni did not hug Blake Lively at some point during this entire time. There's no way. Why wouldn't you just say, just lean on the not in manner suggested? Why are you going to go to this absolute sort of thing like no one has ever touched her? There's no way yeah

0:48:15 Thomas: That feels like a hard claim to back up. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I kind of doubt that's, that's that seems like a big claim. Yeah. They're like, we don't even know her. Don't even knows who this is. Yeah. It's like you're going a little too far the other way. So I think the thing you pointed out becomes important here because they're trying to make it out like, oh, she just always confused the character. You know, she's just always confuse the character Well, I doubt she confused her character for one of her staff like I doubt I doubt are you hugging my staff member as Lily Bloom or as That person so I think that seems kind of intentional because that's what they go to, you know Like oh she was just constant it says lively's constant confusion of references to her character is played by lively as opposed to lively herself so a lot of that stuff and then we oh good yeah yeah which is a good reason why that's like a problematic and weird way to do

0:49:02 Lydia: What an odd what an odd thing to say too because it's like as far as we know Blake Lively's like not a method actor I think you could probably say something like that for someone who like is the person that they are portraying you know in an offset and we have no indication that that's accurate for Blake Lively so that's just very strange so yeah I don't know

0:49:39 Thomas: Stuff unless everybody is on the same page so now we get the explanation for the the onesie thing and we've gone through this at length I don't even know that we need to do this

0:49:48 Lydia: I know that's how I feel about a lot of this stuff yeah

0:49:51 Thomas: Again yeah well we're trying to find the new stuff so I just find her version plausible and his version not plausible we've gotten through it you know we We can you can refer back to that in whatever episode that was.

0:50:01 Lydia: Yeah he seems to assert in this paragraph though that the way that he remembers the interaction is documented on camera while they were filming so I'd like to see that if that's truly accurate they released the dance footage I wonder why they didn't release

0:50:09 Thomas: Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah, yeah. I know that's the thing. It's like either you would release nothing because that's not you don't try things normally. And like if there's normal court stuff, you don't do that. But they did release the dancing footage. So and we poked a lot of holes in that, even though I do think like there's elements of that that were good for Baldoni's case. Certainly, ultimately, I obviously still side with kind of what she's saying. But I think if they release that, that's got to be like the best thing for them. You know, like if this if this was equally good. And this is a very short, distinct thing, too. This is like, oh, it just happened real quick. And for some reason, he says his statements were immediately followed by his gesture that she had something in her teeth and requests for someone on set to get her a toothpick. What? I don't. And this is this exchange, all of which is captured on camera, demonstrates, demonstrates how ludicrous and deliberately malicious Lively's allegations are. Why does that demonstrate that?

0:50:21 Lydia: That right mm -hm yeah why would he yeah

0:51:10 Thomas: Since I said she had something in her teeth, I couldn't have sexually harassed her. That's just science.

0:51:14 Lydia: What a weird Weird thing to include. I just find it suspect that they were willing to release the dance footage to all the outlets and stuff and try and address what they felt was like a misleading narrative about that scene. And here, apparently, they have the opportunity to do that again, and they're choosing not to. Yeah, like a point -by -point thing.

0:51:30 Thomas: Yeah. Imagine how powerful that would have been if they released like a bunch of stuff. That was all. I think it's funny here, too. We've gone into this before, but I like how he's like trying to make like, oh, no, it's hot. I was just talking about the heat. And then what's funny is he knows that after that, he said sexy or something. And so he has to make like, well, since that didn't work, I had to then switch tactic because she had earlier expressed that she wanted her character's wardrobe to be sexy. So then after saying, well it's going to be 90 degrees in the bar with no air conditioning. So, you know, you got to take it off.

0:52:04 Thomas: Then after that I was like, Well, it'll be sexy stupid.

0:52:05 Lydia: I remembered her beanie comment and her use of the word sexy, and so I decided to apply it here. Or if

0:52:10 Thomas: Oh God. It's just not plausible. It is not. I'm sorry. That's not plausible, which is not stupid. And we'll see hey if you have the footage uh he comments on the nose thing again

0:52:18 Lydia: It is then yeah then show us the footage yeah this last sentence though is like such a dig and really obnoxious to me baldoni this is in paragraph 95 baldoni rather than adding it to a list of grievances brushed it off and moved on with the

0:52:29 Thomas: Okay yep maybe that's because it wasn't really that big of a grievance and in the context of what was happening I mean it was a little weird but yeah it's like one thing to be like oh that person said a rude thing that's different than saying oh I'm being sexually harassed and someone's made a gross work environment it's different

0:52:40 Lydia: Scene I feel unsafe yeah very quickly though before we move on like like if it were something that truly bothered him I mean it bothered us when we heard it wouldn't it been nice to have like an hr department that he could could have gone to to discuss you know like like his options there that would have been

0:52:55 Thomas: Things yeah yeah yeah and again I think he made it infinitely worse by by jumping to Jenny Slate. I mean, it's one thing to be like, okay, yeah, that was a rude comment, but he took it to an 11 right away with someone else, which is like, at best, I'd call that a push. Like that's a tie. And then they just keep going to the same, like, to then bring this to the New York Times. It's like, just save that for like the end. Like I don't, they have to do it in every single paragraph. But anyway, and as for everyone, they're saying, despite the flawed factual premise underlying Lively's demand in the face of Lively refusal to return to work, Quayfair agreed to this condition. Okay, sure.

0:53:37 Lydia: One question

0:53:52 Thomas: They're still doing that?

0:53:54 Lydia: Though on that previous paragraph where they say you know that they shared this false characterization blah blah blah then waiting nearly two weeks to file the complaint with this court thus depriving him the opportunity to engage in discovery before the damage is done yeah

0:53:54 Thomas: Oh, for fuck's sake. Well, first off, she did file a formal complaint. Like, she filed a complaint. Then waiting nearly two weeks to file the complaint with this court, thus depriving him the opportunity to engage in discovery before the damage is done. I mean, that's just silly.

0:54:06 Lydia: You don't engage in discovery before a complaint is like that's insane we're witnessing how long discovery takes.

0:54:08 Thomas: That takes months. Yeah. Well, yeah, they're still in it.

0:54:15 Lydia: Like, we just went through it in real time. Yeah.

0:54:17 Thomas: It doesn't, it's just so stupid. I'm, I mean it, like who is falling for this yeah

0:54:21 Lydia: It's just like an inaccurate portrayal of how the justice system works. I can't believe, like, that a lawyer decided to write that.

0:54:28 Thomas: All right point five there to be oh this one's pretty much word for word because it's short here to be no discussions of personal experiences with sex or nudity including as it relates to conduct with spouses or others I think we've also been through a lot of that we're getting more of the she took photos of baldoni holding and comforting her newborn in her home so naturally yeah

0:54:40 Lydia: Which has nothing to do with your orgasm experiences with your partner. Like, that's the result, I guess, of an orgasm experience. But it feels

0:54:51 Thomas: Yeah no and so naturally once you've held the bit yeah Yeah. Yeah. Pretty weak, flimsy crap. Baldoni filmed her uncontrollably laughing with him as they rehearsed late into the, yeah, it feels kind of gross. And it's also just timing stuff. Like, I don't know when this was, whatever. I can't get away from the fact that we need to, for one, we need hear from witnesses and stuff. And again, my biggest complaint about, well, no, I shouldn't say that, but my main appeal to anyone who's on the Baldoni side of this is the very best you could do is, well, it's a he said, she said, we'd better wait for the more evidence or for the other, like that's the best you Could do. And instead people just are like, no, she's a fucking liar, harass everybody involved. And that's just wrong.

0:55:03 Lydia: So creepy. Right.

0:55:36 Thomas: Like there's no way. Cause this is just, he said she said they waited for the, he says, and then they're like, well, that's The truth.

0:55:42 Lydia: That's the fact. Yeah. Yeah.

0:55:42 Thomas: So she's a liar. So this is that one. And we kind of touched on this with the intimacy coordinator notes, for example, in response to a proposal from the intimacy coordinator.

0:55:53 Lydia: We have no proof that it was actually a it was proposed by the intimacy coordinator.

0:55:54 Thomas: I don't know about that. Yeah. Yeah, again, what do they do? I don't think they say, well, I've got an idea.

0:55:59 Lydia: We went through that. But yeah, this would be hot.

0:56:04 Thomas: How about, yeah, it's like they help you. Anyway, who knows? Maybe, but it just seems off to me. In response to a proposal from the intimacy coordinator that Baldoni's character riled not orgasm after he satisfied Lily, Lively remarked, I'd be mortified if that happened to me. Personalizing the character's sexual act. Baldoni following Lively's lead in what he understood to be an attempt to connect with and develop their character's remark that those have been some of the most beautiful moments between himself and his wife. They then moved on. So there's some of this stuff that seems like it could be in the realm of, you know, I've said this before, if they were discussing characters, if there's discussing scenes and they talked about like their experiences, but I feel like the way she put it, I think if it was just that, I don't think it would have been a huge problem. I think the one One that I remember from her complaint was more like something like, hey, do you guys ever orgasm together or whatever, you know, like, and it just was a lot more direct than than like, oh, well, you mean me and my wife, blah, blah. Like, that's that's one thing, I guess.

0:56:55 Lydia: Yeah. At the same time, it could also fit in the realm of you sort of rethink some of those other interactions. And you're like, oh, that upon reflection, that does seem a little off. And then include that in your lawsuit potentially is like as pattern of behavior. Whereas like in the moment you might have brushed it off or not really thought anything of it and I think that that's possible here too well

0:57:23 Thomas: I think this is one where there could be misunderstanding here. There could be stuff. I think it'll be I don't think the case is going to hinge on these kinds of conversations. You know, I mean, I don' think it's enough that she reported a lot of stuff and then was retaliated against. I think that's going to be a lot of it. It's interesting that he says, in another instance, as Lively and Baldoni were developing their scenes, Lively said, I don't want it to look like porn and then offered up that she had never seen porn in her life. A very personal fact. That sounds, it's weird.

0:57:50 Thomas: He quoted the I don'T want it TO look like PORN and then not that thing, which I don' t know if that matters because it's all just kind of the he said, she said here. That seems surprising to me. I don''t know who would say that. That's a weird thing. Who would say they've never seen PORNO? Is she super religious or something?

0:57:50 Lydia: I mean she never drank or did anything like that

0:58:06 Thomas: A little bit straight edge.

0:58:06 Lydia: I don't think it's necessarily from religion yeah I think it's just straight edge and I don'T necessarily find that hard to believe just with other elements of her approach to life that we've seen and that she's openly discussed and stuff and that would be kind of a weird thing for him to totally lie about here. Sure.

0:58:24 Thomas: Yeah. I think it's important. What is happening here is a lot of confusion and blending as to the actual allegations. So we're on paragraph 55 of her complaint. Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath discussed their personal sexual experiences in previous porn addiction and tried to pressure Miss Lively to reveal details about her intimate life. This says during a car ride with Miss Lifully, her assistant and driver, Mr. Baldoni claimed to Miss Litely that he had been sexually abused by a former girlfriend, which she has since shared publicly. At the end of this story Mr. Baldoni shared that it had caused him to re -examine his past he then said did I always ask for consent no did I alway listen when they said no no Mr .Baldoni claimed this was an example of how we all have things from which we can learn and grow Ms .Lively was unsettled by Mr. Baldoni's suggestion that he had engaged in sexual conduct without consent when Ms. Lively exited the car her driver immediately remarked that he did not want Ms. lively to be alone with Mr. baldoni going forward which wow imagine what that conversation must have been like yeah so that's part of this section oh there was the one that where they talked about passing a woman like back and

0:59:19 Lydia: Yeah. That guy's going to be on the witness stand, I bet. Oh, right.

0:59:30 Thomas: Forth kind of a weird and then the pornography thing let's see 57 Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath often spoke of their previous pornography addiction mr baldone would often reference pornography to miss lively hoping to shut the subject down she said to him privately that she had never seen it later when mr baldoney was once again referencing his his experiences with pornography, he revealed in front of other cast and crew that Miss Lively had never seen porn. It was an incredible invasion of her privacy to discuss any aspect of her intimate life with the cast and Crew, much less reveal something that she had only told Mr. Baldoni to try to get him to stop talking about the subject with her. That's right. Now I remember this is way more disgusting than he's trying to portray. So, I mean, it is part of the complaint that he was talking about porn too much, but it wasn't just that it was that she said something And then he blurts it out and repeats it in front of other cast members. And that's just like, obviously not okay.

1:00:08 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Now I remember too. Wow. Yeah

1:00:25 Thomas: There could be something you're okay having a conversation with someone about in private. And then if they decided in a workplace, like you might be, you know, like have a more of a friendship in the workplace or something, or somebody you're confiding in, if they decide to then blurt out personal stuff you've told them in front of all your coworkers, that's a different thing. And it is completely legitimate to have a complaint about that. That.

1:00:25 Lydia: Mm mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean like even on the angle of like you know like this friendship if if I had a friend where I like told them something that was you know pretty personal pretty private and then they just like blast it out to a bunch bunch of people without talking to me about it first without asking if I was okay sharing that information about myself with all these other people that's friendship ending um and so like like there there's elements here there's layers of this relationship that he just showed that he cannot be trusted from a personal sort of relationship a working relationship like there's there's nothing there I don't blame her for like that erodes trust in all of those different different aspects any goodwill that you would that he had expected because they had built this relationship etc etc over you know these months and stuff he just killed all of it I mean through a bunch of different acts but like but even if it was just that I would not be surprised that she's like I don't trust you anymore I'm not going to tell you anything anymore you know I'm not surprised it turned out the way it did even ifit had only been this one specific

1:01:55 Thomas: He does say, and I think this is probably important, he says that, or well, they say, the parties say that Heath wasn't part of this conversation at all, and maybe it's possible she misremembered this. Moreover, Heath, who had nothing to do with this exchange and has never had a porn addiction or even mentioned porn in Lively's presence, was falsely and knowingly lumped into this accusation. So maybe they're right there. Maybe they have a point there.

1:02:18 Thomas: Maybe she blended some things together. Who knows? We'll see.

1:02:18 Lydia: Instance

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1:02:27 Thomas: All right, that's where we're leaving it for today. What do we have to look forward to?

1:02:31 Lydia: Oh the birth video oh my gosh we've talked about this before but there's still so much to talk about related to this freaking birth video

1:02:39 Thomas: We're not, we're not going through, you know, a lot of that we're not going through again, but there's, there's some, a few new things to go through on that point that, uh, and then we'll be on our merry way in terms of the other points in the list. All right. Well, with that to look toward to, thanks so much for listening, Gavelinos. Do all the things, share the show, patreon .com slash gavelpod. Listen, enjoy, rate, review. If it's a good review, if not, don't, because it's like the Uber Lyft system where if you have like a 4 .8, you might as well kill yourself. You know, like that's kind of how it goes.

1:03:04 Lydia: If not leave us alone

1:03:12 Thomas: So anyway, that's why I put it at the end of the show, because the people who hate us don't get this far. You know. They don't know our secret. Please don't give us bad reviews. All right. Thanks so much for listening, everyone. We'll see you next time.

1:03:11 Lydia: Yeah there you go