Lively v. Baldoni 43 - But the Intimacy Coordinator Said You Have to Make Out With Me Right Now

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:26 Thomas: In Gavelinos, it's Thomas. That over there's Lydia. How you doing? It started like "I have a gavel head and I'm not afraid to use it" is what I thought you were saying, but

0:00:30 Lydia: I have a gavel head and I'm ready to party. I am a gaivel head? No, I also have a gavelhead. Oh no, I'm ready to party. I'm ready. I don't know.

0:00:41 Thomas: I have a gavelhead. Then what do you, what's the first part of that? Okay, hi, I have a ga velhead, unrelated. I'm ready to party. Weird. All right.

0:00:44 Lydia: It's just how I feel. I don' know. I'm just describing who I am as a person. Yeah, it's like me showing my ID to a bouncer. Let me in, please. I have a gaVEL head.

0:01:00 Thomas: All this time, and that's the best you get? No, I'm just kidding. It's been a, it's, it's been a minute for patrons. It's not a minute for normies, I guess, but I'm going to just forget the timeline split and we're going to combine timelines. We're back together, sort of.

0:01:03 Lydia: Yep. We're together again. Yeah.

0:01:13 Thomas: We've gone through several existential crises and other things, mental breakdowns over this. Man, this is killing us. This has given me reading through the entire Bible on a podcast memories, like flashbacks, because this is rough. We're going through the Wayfarer complaint. By now, this has been nine months old.

0:01:16 Lydia: Here's what you missed.

0:01:26 Lydia: Yeah. Wow.

0:01:33 Thomas: So it's always been the case in pretty much everything we do that because we do debunking stuff, it necessarily takes three to ten times longer than the bunking to begin with, than the bunk, I guess. And I guess I might have underestimated how exponential that becomes when you're dealing with this quantity of lies. So this is wearing on us. We just wanted to update everybody on what we're thinking, because this can't go on forever. Obviously, we're so far behind where we wanted to be in the timeline of this. But the thing is, I think this is going to trial. Like, I mean, you never know. And they always say it looks like that until parties settle. Yeah. And maybe that's true. But if this goes to trial, we're going to be so well positioned to cover that. And it's going to Be really interesting to have all this insight.

0:01:43 Lydia: Right. Right.

0:02:11 Lydia: Until it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah. And all of you amazing listeners will be well positioned to absorb what's actually happening at trial based on all of the work that you did listening up to this, too. So well done.

0:02:29 Thomas: Yeah, hopefully it's not as much work to listen to it as it is for us to make it. But yeah, point taken. No, there's like a million things that have happened, obviously, between this complaint that we're not even through yet and now, and we just wanted to update that we're nicht going to like go through all of that to the same degree at all. I think what the plan is, is we need to move on to something else, but we also need to finish this. So how do we do both those things?

0:02:52 Lydia: Right.

0:02:53 Thomas: And we can barely manage this level of work as it is. And I think where we're going to do is we're need to finishe this complaint. Got to finish it. Just have to do it. Even though it sucks. I think it's the mother load. It's the trove of all the lies. And it really is the Rosetta Stone of all of the crap online.

Line Like, we need to, I personally just want to cover all of this and, like, know what all of it is, because it's the same well they keep going back to. And weirdly, as much as I think the public is probably mostly either lost interest, doesn't care anymore, or probably might be on Blake's side, there's, like, this growing supercell of people who are rabidly anti -Blake and pro -Baldoni that, like, it's weirdly, it's growing a lot, and it's one of the reasons we were covering this. Is seeing that that split reality is just very interesting to me.

And I want to know more about that all the time. I want it. I wanna know what's going on. I'm gonna try to like talk to people on the other side with the facts

0:03:05 Lydia: Mm hmm.

0:03:48 Thomas: In hand. And weirdly, that subreddit mainly is, like, my main measure, is growing to a degree that is, like, kind of alarming for how bad everything's gone for Baldoni.

0:03:57 Lydia: And I think the language has also become like more disturbing, too, like it's not just that it's growing. It's morphing into something that's like, I don't even know. It's so far beyond.

0:04:01 Thomas: Oh, yeah. I mean, it's been pretty bad the whole time, but I, but, I do think that as things get worse in reality for him, they have to escalate and escalate to be able to like explain it. Anyway, Anyway, all that is to say, I'm still very interested in all of this and we need to get through this complaint, but we're going to be starting on a new thing. I think alongside, we might do something as of right now, our thinking, once we get through this complaint. Which could be anywhere from, God, I don't know how much longer things is going to, we'll see. It's going to Be a little while, but not like that long. Yeah.

0:04:14 Lydia: Right.

0:04:35 Lydia: There's a big portion of this complaint that's his New York Times complaint, which we've already covered.

0:04:39 Thomas: We've already done. Yeah.

0:04:39 Lydia: So, yeah. So I'm hopeful it's going to move along pretty quickly, but we'll see.

0:04:42 Thomas: I think what we'll probably do is switch to a half and half method. It. There'll be like few episodes on this topic and a few episodes on the other thing we're going to do per month. That's what we're thinking. And so just wanted to say if anyone's really feeling the slog of this, I hear you. I think there's plenty of people and maybe it's only the only people left listening are like, no, I love this. I want more.

0:05:06 Thomas: I wanna get through all of the stuff in the trial or in the all of this stuff in The Court Battle. And, so, I don't know. Sound off patrons. Sound of, but I think that's what were gonna switch to. We'd switch to more of a higher level view probably and cover, summarize more stuff to kind of catch up. It would be great to catch up to present time. I think we'll have to obviously skip a lot and not skip, but like do a 30 ,000 foot view of a lot or whatever.

0:05:19 Lydia: Like summarize movements on the docket.

0:05:30 Lydia: Yeah.

0:05:30 Thomas: I Think the plan is few episodes of that per month, few episodes of the other thing we're going to do. And hopefully that can maybe reinvigorate the project a bit and get back to the gaveling that these gavelinos want us to gavel. Or those gavelitos are all gone. It's only people are like, no, go through every single line of Wayfair Lively and then all all the other stuff. And if that's true, tell us in the Patreon, you know, that'd be good information to have, but I don't know.

0:05:55 Thomas: So that's the plan. Thanks for sticking with us today. What are we tackling? Where are we in the complaint?

0:05:55 Lydia: Well, We're still working through that 17-point list. We're going to kick off with point three: no spontaneous improvisation of scenes involving physical touching, simulated sex or nudity, which must be choreographed with intimacy coordinator. So we're moving along through that 17-point list with plenty of stuff within the narrative itself, but also using the attachment, as we have been doing this entire time, going along and looking at additional quote-unquote receipts that Baldoni's team had uploaded to their website and tried to put on the docket as well.

0:06:27 Thomas: Oh man, it is really fun that they just, they fucked themselves over with that so badly. I don'T, did they not read it? Anyway, we'll get to it. I love it. So yeah, we're on point three in that list and that's where we'll begin. Let's see how far we get. All right. We're going to take our usual break. And now that we're all in the same timeline, I can say, thank you so much, patrons, for patronizing. Hope you enjoyed the way early content up until now, heretofore. And normies, get on that. Patreon .com slash gavelpod. You can have stuff early, you can skip the auto ads, and you can talk to us. Yeah, for sure. Let us know how you feel. And all right, so after this break, we'll get on with point three in Wayfarer V Lively.

0:06:38 Lydia: Yeah.

0:07:02 Lydia: And it's, yeah, easier to talk to us. Let's do it.

0:07:19 Ad: [Ad break 1 — ad music]

0:07:19 Thomas: So let's go through point three, which was to remind everyone who probably has it memorized rise by now. This is the third item in the 17 point list, right? We're doing the 17 one, right, not the, okay. There is to be no spontaneous improvising of any scenes involving physical touching, simulated sex, or nudity. Scenes involving kissing, depictions of sexual intercourse, or any other physical touching must be contained in the screenplay as approved by Blake Lively, choreographed in advance in the presence of the intimacy coordinator, and may only proceed as as choreographed with the consent of all participants in advance.

0:07:31 Lydia: Yes, the 17.

0:07:55 Lydia: And they paraphrase this in their complaint as, Point three, no spontaneous improvisation of scenes involving physical touching, simulated sex, or nudity, which must be choreographed with intimacy coordinator.

0:08:06 Thomas: That's a weird way to phrase that.

0:08:08 Lydia: Yeah, I feel like they're leaving out some elements there, personally.

0:08:11 Thomas: We've already gone through this. We get the refusing to meet. I do think this could have been some sort of misunderstanding because, for one, when Justin Baldoni says, just hired intimacy coordinator who I love, will set you up to meet slash FT, FaceTime, I think, right? With her next week for intro. That's just intro. And Blake Lively says, I feel good. I can meet her when we start. Thank you, though.

0:08:25 Lydia: Mm -hmm. Yep. Mm -hm. Mm -hum. Yeah.

0:08:33 Thomas: Now, that seems entirely reasonably to be, hey, I don't need to do a quick like 10, 15 with someone like I'm fine just when we which I totally relate to. We've already said all this as a busy person, as I'm sure she's very busy. She's like, nope, trust you. Good. But we do get and I do think this might have been Justin Baldoni, maybe misunderstanding or miscommunicating because he does say he forwarded it to female producer. Producer, who I guess is Alex, just wanted to tell you about this. Seems she doesn't want to meet intimacy coordinator until we start, which may mess up the workflow, but I can still meet with her. Of course, producer says that's fine. If she doesn'T want to meet her now, you'll just have to walk her through what you and blank are thinking. Yeah.

0:09:14 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. I can't imagine that they are sitting there and choreographing every scene as part of this meeting. Even Justin Baldoni to Blake Lively characterized this as an intro like, hey, Blake, meet so -and -so, so -an -so meet Blake. You know, like, let's talk about our yeah, like our vision. What are we comfortable with in general? But it's it wasn't like, "Hey, we're starting to choreograph these scenes. Do you want to join for the meeting?" Yeah. Or like, "Sorry, Blake. We actually have a pretty tight timeline. Lines so we're going to be using this intro to also work through X, Y, and Z. Would really love for you to be there."

0:09:23 Thomas: For intro. That's why I find this so confusing.

0:09:36 Thomas: Yeah, and he could have sent a message that was like, "Oh, well, I wanted you you to start actually, like, working on scenes." Like, you could have sent that. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. But the thing is, based on this text, I think this also isn't, like, a lie or anything. I just, it's just confusing why Baldoni did this this way. Like, I don't get it. Like, why it's clear you said next week for intro, you know, like, just an intro, and then he's like, "Well, that's will set us back, but but why?" I don't, very weird. Yeah.

0:09:58 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, well, and then even Alex says that's fine if she doesn't want to meet her now, you'll just have to walk her through what you and Blank are thinking. Yeah, like Alex has raised the alarm in other scenarios that we've seen in these text messages where she's like, "Hey, this is a problem with, like, Blake's revisions to the script." Like, she has no problem expressing when and she thinks that there is going to be a problem, and she does not think there is a problem here.

0:10:28 Thomas: Right. And there is a big blending that goes on. And this is so much of what Baldoni relies on and Friedman or whoever's writing this. They rely on just blending a bunch of stuff together and then responding to the points that they can respond to. And then you, the reader, or hopefully you didn't read it for one. They don't want anyone reading. And if you did read, hopefully it all blended together and you're like, oh, oh, they responded to that.

But this is the switcheroo that we've done. There's several switcheroos, switcheseroo here. Because he says, as a result, many sex scenes were not written with simultaneous collaboration and input from both Lively and the intimacy coordinator, as Baldoni had long intended. But again, the allegation wasn't that the sex scenes were bad or something. That wasn't the allegration. The allegation was stuff that wasn't sex scenes. As Baldoni, in his own complaint, also said there hadn't been any intimate scenes.

We just read that because he's like, there hadn't even been any intimate scenes, which is like, yeah, exactly. That's her point. There was intimate contact in stuff that shouldn't have been there. So her problem is this is getting improvised. So I'm not doing any other stuff that has any intimate contact without it being expressly discussed beforehand with the intimacy coordinator.

0:10:32 Lydia: So, yeah. Yeah. Right. Mm hmm. Right, because, yeah, I mean, from like her perspective at that point, it's like, hey, this could be like, you know, we're at the DMV kind of scene and you're going to try and do stuff like I don't know at this point. And so I can't trust you to just take the scene on paper anymore.

0:11:54 Lydia: And now she needs to be there all the time.

0:11:54 Thomas: Well, I don't even know how many of the actual written intimate scenes she complained about. So this is blending much together. And he also they also use this to say, well, this was why frequently he was discussing his private life and her private life sexually was because they were had to discuss these scenes because she didn't show up for the intro to the intimacy coordinator, which there's like a percentage of that that like maybe could be reasonable if it's like, oh, well, I want the character to do this because I don't know, in my experience, such and such.

That's one of those things where if it was just that and it was just him being like, what's your thoughts, and maybe if he went a little too far with personalizing it, like, oh, what do you and Ryan do, like, that's definitely like over the line, but if it was just out of like, hey, that's awkward, no. Whereas this is he's trying to say that all happened because of there's no intimacy coordinator, but also the time she alleges that happened, most of them were like, we were in a car, you know, it was the

0:12:01 Lydia: Right? Yeah. Mm Hmm. Yeah. Yeah,

0:12:50 Thomas: One where he said he, like, you know, there's another one, like there's other ones that it isn't during these scenes. So this is all just switcheroo. This is all just smoke and mirrors to try to get it to be something that it's not. And the times that she actually complained in ways that are relevant to his response to it is, I don't know if there are any. Like, I don't know if he actually hits on any of them other than he does say. So actually, you should read that. Why don't you read paragraph 85 real quick?

0:12:51 Lydia: With her driver and stuff. Yeah. Sure.

0:13:17 Lydia: Contrary to Lively's knowingly false claims, it was Lively who refused to meet with the intimacy coordinator to plan out their scenes, putting Baldoni in the awkward position of meeting alone with the Intimacy Coordinator and later relaying sex scene suggestions and plans to Livery in the Intomacy Coordinator's absence. These meetings often took place, at Lively'S insistence, in the couple's home. Yeah.

0:13:36 Thomas: Oh, so they did happen and often while Lively's husband was present is the rest of that. So it did happen. So it sounds like you did have meetings about the intimacy coordinator stuff, right? But it's not Lively, he's not complaining about any of this

0:13:44 Lydia: Yeah. Just without the intimacy coordinator there. Right.

0:13:49 Thomas: So for him to go into this, like, these half these meetings took place at Lively's insistence in the couple's home, how is that relevant to anything? Does that respond to anything? I gotta pull up her complaint.

0:13:50 Lydia: Mm hmm. Yeah, The paragraph continues, Lively's method of work was unconventional and uncomfortable for Baldoni. To suggest Baldoni was the one who created this scenario is knowingly false. And so I think, you know, it's talking about when he shared the notes from that meeting, and that he had he was doing so in her home and how uncomfortable that was for him, I guess.

0:14:10 Thomas: Yeah.

0:14:19 Thomas: No.

0:14:20 Lydia: But I don't know. Again, again, it's not like she never met the intimacy coordinator. So couldn't those notes have been saved for when the when all three of you were together, when the thing had started and you were starting to kind of like choreograph the scenes a little bit? You could say like, oh, yeah, here's what I remember from the intro that I did with so -and -so Blake and so -on. So chime in if there's anything I'm missing from my recollection of that meeting.

0:14:31 Thomas: Yeah.

0:14:44 Thomas: Yeah, so the important thing is we we have to go back. I know we've gone over everything so many times, but because this is so much obfuscation and smoke and mirrors, let's go back to what she's actually alleging, because what this does, what this whole complaint does is it creates a false memory of what her complaint was and then demolishes that. So you're like, oh my God, she was lying, but it isn't actually what her complain is. So if I go back to her complaint, so under the big A heading of Justin Baldoni and Jamie Heath of Wayfair engaged in inappropriate and unwelcome behavior, et cetera, et cetera. There's a small A heading after a few paragraphs, Mr. Baldoni ignored well -established industry protocols and filming intimate scenes and exploited the lack of controls on set to behave inappropriately.

So she says such safeguards ignored by Wayfair include providing performers with appropriate notice of nudity and simulated sex and ensuring that one, consent is given free of pressure or coercion. Two, sign nudity writers in place, spelling out the parameters of nudity or simulated sex scenes. Three, safe and secure working conditions that are not detrimental to performers' health and safety and morals and career. And four, the use of intimacy coordinators to observe intimate scenes.

So to get more specific, she says, without these protections in in place, Mr. Baldoni improvised physical intimacy that had not been rehearsed, choreographed, or discussed with Ms. Lively, and no intimacy coordinator involved. For instance, Mr.-Baldoni discreetly bit and sucked on Ms .Lively's lower lip during a scene in which he improvised numerous kisses on each take. Mr.- Baldoni insisted on shooting the full scene over and over again, well beyond what would have been required.

So she's alleging, just to make this very clear, she was alleging that this wasn't an intimate scene, and therefore there was no discussion with an intimacy coordinator, there wasn't that she didn't think she needed one. And he is improvising intimacy and she's saying this was never discussed. And so therefore these protections were not there. So for him to respond by saying, well, you refuse to do the intro with the intimacy coordinator, that's nothing. For him to then say the meetings often took place at her home. That's nothing. None of that is anything unless

0:15:01 Lydia: Right.

0:15:59 Lydia: Mhm, mhm, mhm. Right, right.

0:16:44 Thomas: He wants to allege that he actually did run this by her or something, but I don't even think he's doing that. I mean, he could try maybe, but But I don't know. It seems like these meetings might have been like later anyway. So I'm not sure. Yeah, it makes it sound like he's responding.

0:16:53 Lydia: Right. Yeah, yeah, they're just non sequiturs. It has nothing to do with anything. Yeah.

0:17:00 Thomas: Here's another one. And oh, OK. The other allegation was the slow dance scene. Blake alleges that he did something inappropriate there. Now, we've talked about the footage.

0:17:09 Lydia: Mhm. In depth. Yeah.

0:17:10 Thomas: Yeah, that is what it is. But again, there was no allegation that this was a intimate scene that they discussed, but then she had complaints about. It's a non -intimate scene that turned intimate, and she has a problem with that. So get her allegations right, and then feel free to respond. But instead, it relies on lying about what her allegations are.

0:17:18 Lydia: Mhm. Right. Exactly. Yeah, that was my point about, like, you know, it's a scene at the DMV, you're waiting in line, and like, all of a sudden now there's a kiss that it's not in the script, it wasn't discussed, it, like, it is happening out of nowhere. So yeah, exactly, like, stop misconstruing what the complaint

0:17:42 Thomas: Yeah, and here's the closest thing. So here is maybe what he might be responding to, which is the female gaze part, which is, B, Mr. Baldoni inserted improvised gratuitous sexual content and or scenes involving nudity into the film, including for an underage character in highly unsettling ways. Now, this is where I'm like, you know, he's the director, so I don't know what the rules are and whatever this is. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not totally sure the sequencing of how that all has to work.

But at least as far as the allegation goes, 49, after Miss Lively signed on to the movie based on a draft of the script, Mr. Baldoni, without Miss Latively's knowledge or consent, personally added graphic content, including a scene which Miss Lifully was to orgasm on camera. When Ms. Lively objected to these additions, Mr. Baldoni insisted he had added them because he was making the film through the female gaze.

Although he agreed to remove the scenes, he made a last -ditch attempt to keep one in which the couple orgasmed together on their wedding night, which he said was important to him because he and his partner climaxed simultaneously during intercourse. Mr. baldoni then intrusively asked Ms. Lively whether she and her husband climaxed simultaneously during intercourse, which Miss Lively found invasive and refused to discuss. So then then the next thing is the birth scene. So once again, no intimacy coordinator because it wasn't an intimate scene, although that

0:17:46 Lydia: Is. Yeah, I consider

0:18:58 Thomas: One, I'm not sure. Yeah.

0:18:59 Lydia: That intimate. I think that's an intimate scene.

0:19:01 Thomas: I don't know why there was no intimacy coordinator. That does seem like an intimate seen

0:19:03 Lydia: I don't know why you wouldn't just err on the side of caution too.

0:19:06 Thomas: For sure, yeah. But again, he has never said that there was one. It's never been like, well, she said there wasn't one here during the birth seen and she's lying, there was. When he never says that. So that's how you know they fucked up and didn't have an intimacy coordinator when there's a birthing scene, and the only way they can try to respond to that is by saying, well, you didn't meet with her or something, but there's nothing to do with

0:19:26 Lydia: Yeah, don't you also think, like, if you're shooting a scene and the expectation for that scene is that it's a closed set, is that it's inherently intimate?

0:19:28 Thomas: Anything. Yeah, you would think it's weird that there wasn't an intimacy coordinator there. I don't get why. Huh. And so I guess in terms of the, like, inserting scenes in, I suppose, like, that's where this is kind of could be a response if she's alleging he tried to get these scenes in. And for one, I don't know, like, I don't know how strong that claim is other than, and I guess in terms of being one of a pattern of, like, little, you know, we've talked about from the very beginning, sexual harassment either has to be one big event, a very severe event, or a bunch of little events.

0:19:37 Lydia: Then, yeah.

0:20:03 Lydia: Severe. Yeah. Pervasive. Yeah.

0:20:08 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. And so I suppose because like I don't I don'T know if by itself this would be anything. It was like, well, the director wants to put these scenes in. And I said, no. So they weren't. You know what I mean? I don' t know if I itself that would be enough to like win a case over necessarily. But I don''t know. I' m not the lawyer, but I don ''t think so. But just as a pattern. So if he's going to defend himself by saying, well, no, I discussed these with the intimacy coordinator, but you weren't there or something. I don't, I don' know. I guess that would come down to like, well what does the intimacy coordinators say? Like, are we going to hear from them? Are they going to corroborate? I feel like I would need to know which scenes and which things, because he, he isn't specific. He just says, well no, I just did that based on the intimacy coordinate. But she is being specific about like, Like there was this scene with an orgasm. I didn't want to do it, et cetera, et cetera.

0:20:09 Lydia: Yeah.

0:20:51 Lydia: Yeah. Well, he definitely like within his timeline exhibit, he has some verbiage here where he is saying that the notes from his meeting with the intimacy coordinator would, quote, later become the basis for Lively's complaint in which she states that Baldoni would talk about his own sex life and insert gratuitous scenes with Lively character orgasming. And so they're kind of pivoting and saying like, no, it wasn't actually Baldoni and Lively having a conversation. It was Baldoni sharing notes that he took down from this meeting.

And here's the proof. Here's the picture of the notes that He took when he met with the intimacy coordinator. And I think that that is another attempt at misdirection, right? Because both of those things could be true. True. Yes, he wrote orgasm down on paper while he was talking with the intimacy coordinator and discussing some ideas there. And also he could have overshared and asked invasive questions. And so reducing that to these two pages of notes that he took from the intimacy coordinator meeting, it really does feel like misdirection. And when you look at the note pages, too, it's I don't know, all of this is just weird.

0:21:39 Thomas: Yeah.

0:21:55 Thomas: Okay. So it's always smart to go back to that timeline, which has stuff that I, you know, may or may not help his case sometimes hurts his case. So this is interesting in terms of a response. I don't know why you would put this in this stupid inadmissible document and not in the complaint. So we get May 22nd. Lively and Baldoni perform a scripted kissing scene. So that would kind of contradict her, so I think this could be important to look at. But if so, I don't know why this isn't in the complaint, unless maybe it is. Okay. A scripted kissing scene in which their characters get engaged at the hospital. In the sequence, Lively pulls Baldonian to kiss her.

It is clear Lively was initiating the kissing. In one take, she pulls Baldorian and kisses him once, in another twice. Lively determined the number of kisses based on what she felt necessary for the scene, though Lively improvised the number. The number of Kisses in the scene.

Make no mistake, the kiss itself was written into the script and was in no way improvised. Wait, what? Contrary to Lively's CRD complaint, there was no inappropriate improvised kissing on set. Any improvisation was made by Lively herself. Oh, it says: Note, no intimacy coordinator was present on set for this day. As a standard, when two professional actors with over three decades of combined working experience perform a scene in which only kissing is involved, in no other intimacy, nudity, or simulated sex is required. Furthermore, during preparations, Lively and her attorneys did not indicate in her nudity writer that she wanted an intimacy coordinator present for scenes involving only kissing. Instead, in line with industry practice, focused solely on bringing one on for the simulated sex and nudity scenes.

0:22:00 Lydia: Yeah. So But then that's still to your earlier point where it's not about the scenes in which she was aware that kissing was happening. It's the scenes in which there was no awareness of kissing happening.

0:23:41 Thomas: Yes, and it's also that when she's going to come back to work, she's making an increased demand. So she's saying, hey, if I'm going to comes back to the office, I'm not going to be able to work, I want an intimacy coordinator like fucking everywhere, like in every closet and every whatever. And then he's taking that to say, ah, but you didn't ask for that before. I was like, yeah, because that was before I got sexually harassed.

0:23:42 Lydia: Yeah. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't feel safe on set anymore more.

0:24:01 Thomas: So It's yet another switcheroo. Yeah. And so they, they take that to mean, well, she's alleging that we were supposed to have one all the time and we didn't. But that, you know, this is just her asking for extra protection to come back to set. So It tricky because there's gonna be stuff that we just don't, we can't really evaluate because it's like, I think they're talking past each other most of the time. I think that's intentional, but here I, I just don't know. Because if she says he improvised intimacy that hadn't been rehearsed and bit and sucked on Lively's lower lip, that's what she says. And he says, no, this was fully scripted. It was this scene in which they got together in the hospital and she was the one. That one seems pretty weak to me because he keeps saying she improvised it. Well, it was written in the script, but she improvized the number of kisses.

0:24:13 Lydia: Yeah. Right.

0:24:46 Thomas: But then it cites a script page that says she kisses him all over his face. So it's like, well, that doesn't specify a number. It's not like it's said like they kiss exactly once and she did three times. So that's trying to do like a no, you're the sexual harasser, but super weak. I guess we'd have to see if Baldoni's right and that's the scene and he has proof that she did it, then yeah, maybe that would be good and she would be wrong on that. But I also just don't know if that's The Right Scene. Like it seems like in times past, he's pulling a fast one and it's like he's talking about a different thing. So I think that we just have to wait and see. But I keep coming back to like, I don't think she would have complained if it was her doing this. Again, you have to have the backing assumption that she's faking something to get something in order for this to make sense. Or she's insane. You have to think one of those two things.

0:24:46 Lydia: Yeah, right. Yeah. Right.

0:25:34 Thomas: But I'm like, well, if she had a problem with stuff, it's probably not a problem with her doing stuff. It's probably you doing stuff, so if you want to think she's faking and lying, I think that's a tall order, and I think you would need a lot of proof to want to thank something so insane, especially with all the evidence that goes counter to that about how much she obviously was bothered and cared and whatever. Ever.

And it could be that maybe there's things in here she misremembered. Like that's, I don't know how you would write a complaint perfectly with remembering everything that happened in the right order. Like there's going to be places you can pick apart in a complaint about behavior over time. She's bound to have gotten some stuff wrong, but that doesn't mean nothing happened. It just means you're not being the perfect, like photographic memory victim, butthat shouldn't be the standard. Yeah, exactly. So I don' know how to evaluate that. Like maybe this part is is responsive in Baldoni's complaint. Maybe it is, but we can't really tell. I mean, it seems like she's talking about a different scene, but I don't know. Especially if he's citing that it was written into the script and she's saying it wasn't.

Well, it sounds like maybe they're talking about a difference scene because I don't think she would claim that if it was in black and white written into this script. All right, so you had talked about notes from the intimacy coordinator. I'm curious to get a look at these. So now that we're on the topic of the intimacy co-ordinator, we can go to the part in the timeline you were talking about. Do you want to read, I guess, the April 21st entry there?

0:25:41 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, mm-hmm.

0:26:15 Lydia: Which is basically being a human. Yeah.

0:26:43 Lydia: Right. Yeah. Yes. Baldoni meets with the intimacy coordinator to discuss how to shoot the sex scenes. It was important to him that the intimacy coordinator be a woman to help craft sex scenes that would speak to the book's mostly female audience, I .e. be written from the quote, female male gaze. So tired of reading that. So already he's saying to discuss how to shoot the sex scenes, but what he told Blake was, was it was an intro, an introduction, right?

0:27:05 Thomas: Yeah. Well, yeah, if this is even the same thing, I don't know.

0:27:13 Lydia: His notes from this meeting are pictured below and were later shared with Lively during one of their script writing meetings at her New York apartment. These notes would later become the basis for Lively's complaint in which she states that Baldoni would talk about his own sex life and insert gratuitous scenes with Lively's character orgasming. As seen in the notes, these mentions come directly from the intimacy coordinator's notes: quote, goes down on her, quote, orgasm, quote, foreplay, quote, the clit test. Ideally these conversations would have taken place directly between Lively and the intimacy coordinator directly, as Baldoni had requested. He didn't request

0:27:23 Thomas: See, that's overstating it.

0:27:39 Thomas: Test directly.

0:27:50 Thomas: No, I didn't. For an intro. I don't know that any part of her complaint complains about that, does it? There' s nothing where she says in the penthouse. Yeah. Yeah.

0:27:51 Lydia: That. However, Lively declined to meet with her, leaving Baldoni in the less than ideal position of having to relay these notes to Lively in her penthouse. No, I know, I don't, I don' t think so. That's what I'm saying. It's like like, both of those things can be true: that you wrote down this as part of your notes from that meeting, and also you expressed things in an environment that made her uncomfortable. That wasn't you whipping out your notebook and saying on the 21st of April.

0:28:17 Thomas: Maybe this is nothing too, but he says how to shoot the sex scenes, but that doesn't seem right. It seems like this is, they're still writing it because then later they're still doing script writing meetings. I feel like the process of an intimacy coordinator discussing how to shoot them would take place like on the day, wouldn't it? God, I can't fucking read any of it. Oh, okay.

0:28:23 Lydia: Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is also, you can tell in his notes, it is not about shooting the scenes. It's talking about, you know, some things that they could play around with. I can read a lot of this, actually. Intimacy coordinator Meet before I

0:28:47 Thomas: Intimacy cover, meet bar fare, They're safely, comfort, helping build the steaminess.

0:28:53 Lydia: Think it's supposed to be safety, comfort.

0:28:59 Thomas: Oh, okay. I can do this. Give the fans, he capitalizes the first letter of some of the words.

0:29:00 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. The strangest letters. Yeah, yeah.

0:29:08 Thomas: Give the fans what they want. Sex in Vegas,

0:29:11 Lydia: ECU I don't know what that is. Yeah.

0:29:12 Thomas: Okay, without showing anything. What is sex in Vegas? Is there a Vegas scene?

0:29:18 Lydia: I think there's a Vegas scene.

0:29:21 Thomas: When is there a Vegas scene?

0:29:22 Lydia: I don't think there is sex in that scene, though, right? Or did that get cut?

0:29:23 Thomas: What would that even be? I have no memory of Vegas scene. I don't know what it would be. I don't like, they don't they don't travel do they? Am I crazy? Like oh

0:29:28 Lydia: Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I think so. I think it's cut because it says, the Vegas scene: in the book, they elope to Vegas for a quick ceremony. In the movie, Raul proposes to Lily in the hospital shortly after Alyssa gives birth, and the father officiates the wedding. Let's see. So, yeah. So in the book, the Vegas scene is when they get married.

0:29:53 Thomas: And so that could be the wanting to orgasm together thing.

0:29:56 Lydia: And then they redid it in the movie so it happened after Jenny Slate gave birth. A brief scene of the wedding is shown, but the location is not specified. So, yes. I think it got cut. Right.

0:30:05 Thomas: Okay, so that's supposed to be like the wedding night sex that he wanted to do. Yeah, I mean, this could be a place where her claim is slightly weak if it's like, well, I just don't know. You know, I think we would need more because it could be true that he talked to an intimacy coordinator about a sex scene in Vegas that he wanted to do but she didn't want to do that. Like that could all be true.

And it wouldn't matter, like, if it wasn't in the draft of the script that she read. So in the complaint says, "After Miss Lively signed on to the movie based on a draft of the script, Mr. Baldoni, without Miss Lively's knowledge or consent, personally added graphic content, including a scene in which Miss Lively was to orgasm on camera." This is one where I could see him, like, maybe some parts of this I think he could have a point, you know, if it's like, well, this might have been a misunderstanding, I don't know. Like maybe he just wasn't, maybe he didn't have any reason to think he couldn't do that. Like I could say, I've said it from the beginning, when you're the victim of sexual harassment and you have to build your case, you're going to throw everything in there because you have to establish a pattern. And maybe some of the stuff will be, well, that was genuinely a misunderstanding. Sure. It doesn't make any of it a lie or less valid.

0:31:04 Lydia: Mm hmm.

0:31:04 Thomas: It might be that was something that bothered her that maybe the jury would be like, well. I don't know about that one, but if there's 10 others, then fine.

0:31:11 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. And that could also be like some lawyering there, too, where he wanted her to orgasm on camera. And it's like, well, you know, those were conversations that he had with the intimacy coordinator. But obviously, if she wasn't comfortable doing that, they would have written it in a way that she could support. You know, like I think it would have all turned out way differently if there weren't the sexual harassment on set.

0:31:14 Thomas: Yeah.

0:31:30 Thomas: Yeah, so this is a lot of this stuff about this Vegas scene that didn't happen. Vegas scene, funny sex position that doesn't look work. Work. Oh, that doesn't work. They switch. She misses. Oh Jesus. What? She misses when she lowers herself. You're going to put that in him. That doesn't, I don't. That doesn't seem like something you could put. Am I crazy?

0:31:34 Lydia: Yeah. That doesn't work. Mm hmm. Mm hmm? You've got it. She misses when she lowers herself. So, yeah, they They laugh. A new position that's super awkward.

0:31:56 Thomas: How are we going to even do that?

0:31:56 Lydia: And then here's the other thing, too, because there's been a lot of conversation about the rating that this needed to be a PG-13 movie. How are you going to do that as a PG-13 movie? I don't think Sony is going to be supportive of this. Right. Right.

0:32:01 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's not doable. Here's the other thing I would be curious. I want to know, have we heard from, well, okay. At this point we haven't heard from the intimacy coordinator for all we know, no, these are his notes of what he wants to talk about with the intimacy coordinator. And she's like, what? You can't fucking do that.

0:32:22 Lydia: Right. Yeah.

0:32:22 Thomas: You know, like for all we know, I don't know.

0:32:24 Lydia: Well, and it could be like as they're talking, he's like, oh, or what about this? And like starts writing his idea down because he wants to share it with Blake later and the intimacy coordinator. This isn't her signing off on this or anything like that. And also an intimacy coordinator wouldn't be able to sign off on behalf of Blake Lively and her consent.

0:32:34 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. And it's kind of like if you've hired an intimacy coordinator at this stage, I think it would be you're telling them what you want to do. And they're being like, 'OK, well, you'd have to do it this way.' Or, you know, like, I know that this means that for sure everything discussed here was like fine in accordance with her contract or what she agreed to do or even what a PG-13 film could could be: she lowers herself, she misses when she lowers herself, they laugh, a new position that is super awkward, like, 'What?' That's not

0:32:47 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. So, that's three positions that are super awkward and we have to get details of like.

0:33:10 Thomas: Yeah. That is, like, then what's he [doing]?

0:33:14 Lydia: I think it's he finishes.

0:33:14 Thomas: What's that? He finishes, then goes down on her, or she comes, and then he says, 'No, that was enough.' Oh, that was the, like, oh, she finishes but he doesn't, and that was the thing where she was like, 'Oh, that would be weird.'

0:33:18 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think he probably did share like these as ideas with the intimacy coordinator. And then the intimacy coordinator probably responded with his very next note on there, which says 48 hours in advance per SAG guidelines.

0:33:39 Thomas: Yeah Yeah, that's like boxed too, which I love, because I could almost imagine her being like, 'Yeah, so make sure you give notice, because this stuff is like fucking crazy.' Like, I don't know, this isn't in movies, like I'm not trying to be a prude. They don't put this stuff in major films, like, they just don't. There's not, like, a bunch of intimate depiction of who comes exactly when, and they talk about it like that. Doesn't peachy

0:33:43 Lydia: Yes. Yeah, exactly.

0:34:03 Lydia: And again, and beyond that, what are we supposed to be doing from this film from a storytelling perspective? What does the sex add? Yeah, it doesn't add anything to the entire story of this. And especially if we're talking about from the

0:34:07 Thomas: 13, uh, they're boning. Yeah, it's nothing thing. No.

0:34:18 Lydia: Female gaze, that is not that. That is not going to be, I don't even know how you would do that from a female gaze.

0:34:20 Thomas: Well, I think it's funny because it seems like, okay, look, if it's true that that all just came from the intimacy coordinator, because that's what he tries to say. So she accuses Baldoni of Insisting Lively do uncomfortable or gratuitous scenes, scenes that were in fact proposed by the intimacy coordinator. And by all accounts, very typical asks of any actor performing simulated sex scenes. Those are absolutely not. And then it says this is well documented in handwritten notes Baldoni took during meetings with the intimacy coordinator and later read to Lively. Yeah.

0:34:33 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, no.

0:34:54 Lydia: And it never says intimacy coordinator suggested this for the

0:35:00 Thomas: And it's like, maybe the intimacy coordinator did suggest that, I don't know. Maybe he was like, hey, give me some things that would be very like from the female perspective friendly, and she's like, okay, it might be

0:35:04 Lydia: Scene Could do something like this.

0:35:11 Thomas: Like she finishes but you don't in some way, or it's, it's likely prioritizing her orgasm or something. Or like, I could really imagine he was coming up with these fucking ideas, I don't know, like I wouldn't, we need to hear from the intimacy coordinator, I don't know that we have, but at least at this point in the complaint we have haven't.

0:35:17 Lydia: Yeah, yeah.

0:35:26 Lydia: And then like contrast that page with the other one, the previous page in the same image where it says details details details, space in between kisses, inside of wrists, earlobes, it's much more like romantic and like small and

0:35:39 Thomas: Oh yeah, it says push and pull foreplay. Yeah.

0:35:41 Lydia: Like, yeah, exactly. And then you contrast that with, But the next page where he finishes, then goes down on her or she comes and then he says no. Like it's just, yeah, it's like it's coming from two different people. I find it hard to believe that what is written on that second page are words that came out of the intimacy coordinator's mouth.

0:35:47 Thomas: Oh yeah. She misses when she lowers her, like it's what? Yeah.

0:36:00 Thomas: Or if they are, it's again, it is not the intimacy coordinator's job to be like, what's the fucking rating on this thing exactly? And what, what is going to be, like, this is before it is even written fully. It could be like hey, let's just talk sexy stuff. Here's some ideas. And that doesn't mean that it would be something that Lively agreed with. Now, again, some amount of this, it could be a misunderstanding. I don't know. Like some amount of this could genuinely just be like he was in good faith trying to do something with an intimacy coordinator, maybe, like for some of the stuff I could see maybe, but also none of that was in, for one, that seems not in the movie. So something happened, what happened? Sounds like she didn't want to do it and they took it out, in which case it would be weird to say like a defense to that wouldn't be, but I discussed it with the intimacy

0:36:06 Lydia: Yeah. Right. Yeah, exactly. Right.

0:36:42 Lydia: Right.

0:36:42 Thomas: Coordinator, because that wouldn't matter. It'd be like, no, I didn't agree to do this sex scene to begin with, doesn't matter how You craft it. I didn't agree to do that kind of thing. And that, I don't know if that's sexual harassment per se, but it's at least like an item on this list.

0:36:47 Lydia: Yeah. And then funnily, just, you know, because we're here in the timeline, the following day is when he asked her trainer how much she weighs. Yeah.

0:36:58 Thomas: Yeah. About the weight. Yeah, that's funny. I wonder why. I under why. That's like, no, you know, that's actually interesting. If the thing they were just doing before he was just doing that day was nudity stuff. Yeah.

0:37:06 Lydia: Yeah. Let's talk about sex positions. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

0:37:13 Thomas: And he's going to say, well, no, it's for this lift. That's a totally different scene that I was worried about that doesn't exist. I don't know. Like, this is kind of almost a little, little bit, it's not dispositive, but like, this makes me think his mind was in nudity, sex scene, Vegas, like all that kind of stuff, and he's like,

0:37:27 Lydia: Yeah. She's got to lose some weight.

0:37:29 Thomas: Yeah, I wonder how much she weighs right now. That's like the same fucking day, right? Or the next day. Uh, yeah, the very next day. Interesting, interesting. It would lend more credibility to her theory, I think, slightly.

0:37:31 Lydia: Yeah yeah. Yeah like literally the very next day. Yeah I agree.

0:37:51 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:37:51 Thomas: Why don't you read us paragraph 88? Because this might shed some more light on

0:37:53 Lydia: In support of what Lively positioned as the impetus for these demands, she alleges Baldoni personally added, quote, graphic content, including a scene in which Miss Lively was to orgasm on camera. This is false. During a creative meeting, which Lively requested to take place in her home, Baldoni read to her his notes from the intimacy coordinator, including the suggestion that Lively's character orgasm during the scene similar to the book. Lively remarked, quote, oh, no, I'm too old for that. And Baldoni offered another suggestion instead, also from his notes from the meeting with the intimacy coordinator. Baldoni then moved on.

0:38:09 Thomas: It doesn't matter. So that's interesting, because that seems to pretty much corroborate her story. Now, again, I don't know what level of anything this is. You might be able to say, yeah, that happened and I suggested that, but what's the big deal? She said no. And like, honestly, I think a jury would be like, yeah. That's Hollywood actor. You propose something.

She said, no, like maybe that, but this does at least legitimize her version of the story, which is nothing to do with no intimacy coordinators and the blah and the notes and the whatever.

And it isn't a defense to say like, if you've signed someone on and that you've had some understanding, again, this would be a matter of determining the evidence for this, but if she is saying, if her claim is that this wasn't anything she agreed to when she signed on, there wasn't going to be any like orgasm scene, and his defense is, well, I met with somebody who I asked about an orgasm seen, or he acts like the intimacy coordinator was writing the movie, like I just went in there and she's like, what if Blake orgasmed, you know, like that's not the intimacy coordinator. Again, is going to consult based on what you're giving them. So if Baldoni, I still think there's a chance he just fucking came up with all that shit.

Who knows? But even if not, if he's like, okay, what would be a really good female, gay -centric sex scene? That doesn't matter if the intimacy coordinator made that suggestion. If that's not something she was ever going to do, why is he even asking about that? You know, like if she has signed on

0:39:11 Lydia: Yeah. Right.

0:39:45 Thomas: Under the understanding that there's not going to be this sex scene, it's not really a defense to say, well, before I proposed it, I ran it by an intimacy coordinator. It's like no, I didn't agree to do that. Like imagine if it was just nudity, by the way, just to sub that in. Imagine an actress signed on to a movie, and as I imagine is probably a pretty important part of negotiations, was like, no, I'm not getting topless. And then the director is like talking to the intimacy coordinator and was like oh what if she got topless here, yeah, no that'd be great. And then comes to her and is like, so we were thinking you'd get topless for this, like it doesn't matter that he talked to an intimacy coordinator, I didn't agree to do that.

0:39:45 Lydia: Right, right, right.

0:40:16 Lydia: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it's just so interesting to me, too, like thinking about this. He clearly wanted this scene in there and had some ideas about how he wanted it to look. Yeah.

0:40:25 Thomas: Yeah, he wrote extensively in his private fucking diary about it.

0:40:28 Lydia: And perhaps this creative meeting is him pitching her on like, hey, what if we that scene in the book? You know, she didn't read the book, whatever. I don't know. But there's a scene in the book where they actually get married in Vegas. I'd love to bring that into the movie. I was talking with the intimacy coordinator about it. And we had some ideas. Like, what do you think? Like, let's chat about could this fit into this version of the movie? And he's giving her his ideas and pitching her. Her on them, and she's like, no, I'm not doing that, I'm not comfortable with that.

0:40:34 Thomas: Mm hmm. Yeah.

0:40:53 Thomas: I think to put a finer point on it, as I'm imagining this, I think it in my mind is further illustrating the deception going on here that Baldoni is doing because he's acting like an intimacy coordinator is someone you go to and you're like, OK, what sex should be in this? And then they just tell you all these scenes that should be in it.

0:41:02 Lydia: Right. Right. The sex director. Yeah.

0:41:12 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. And that's like you've offloaded that you've you've outsourced anything. Anything. But in reality, if he's saying, okay, what created this situation was I had to meet with the intimacy coordinator alone. And then I had relay the stuff, but imagine they were in the meeting together, all three of them. And Baldoni's like, hey, so what if we did this sex scene in Vegas? How should we do that intimacy coordinator? And Blake is like, I'm not doing that.

0:41:32 Lydia: Right. Right.

0:41:35 Thomas: It wouldn't have been better. It would have been different. It still would come from him. It's not as though the intimacy coordinator was like, I've got a great idea for you guys. How about a sex scene In Vegas? There's no fucking chance that that's how it goes. They're there to consult on what you give them.

0:41:46 Lydia: Right, and to advocate for the actors, right, and their consent.

0:41:49 Thomas: Right. And so it is a misdirect to say that this is a product of it not being the three of them discussing it. It's not. Because even if they had been the three OF them discussing IT, if he is suggesting, and maybe she's lying or something, but if we're go with her accusation, if it's that he's suggesting stuff that she never had agreed to, that's like extra sex scenes, it doesn't matter if he had done that in front of an intimacy coordinator. It still would have been the same thing. It is trying to trick us into to believing it came from the intimacy coordinator. Yeah.

0:42:16 Lydia: Who was a woman, so how could it have been wrong?

0:42:18 Thomas: It's sort of like, treat it like it's chat GPT, just in case my point isn't clear. If he was like, hey, chat GPG, write me a really hot, steamy sex scene. And then Blake's like, I never agreed to do a hot, steamy, sex scene like this, but he's like oh, well, but it came chat GP T. You told it to do that. Like that's what the misdirect is, I think.

0:42:20 Lydia: Yeah.

0:42:38 Thomas: So then we get stuff about the film and we've already done that, the bar scene. So I think this is hopefully we can skip. Yeah, go listen to that. Let's see if there's anything different in the allegations here because we hadn't read this at the time. 89 starts with an annoying thing where he says, Lively's later complaint sheds light on what this point was alluding to in the demand, which at the Time was baffling. But like you've already said, we're still on point three, right?

0:42:33 Lydia: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's Fair, yeah. The romance montage, we did an entire episode on that.

0:43:00 Lydia: Yeah.

0:43:00 Thomas: We haven't changed points. You've already said like 40 things about it. So that why you already know what it was about. What are you talking about? Now he's trying to do another misdirect where he's, he's trying to make it all based on one thing, which had the Time was bafling. And upon review of the filmed evidence is unequivocally based on a lie. Production was filming a romance montage of Lily and Ryle on their date. One of the producers played music to set the mood, blah, blah. This is a bar scene.

0:43:21 Lydia: Yeah. And I think we did talk about some of this stuff because we were like, you have the footage and you're like, misquoting what is even in the footage.

0:43:26 Thomas: Right, right. That's true. Yeah, and then just another example of the obfuscation here. We're trying to skip through the bar scene stuff, but just to say one thing. Lively took them out of character again and joked that Baldoni should undergo a rhinoplasty. Baldoni laughed it off. Footnote 18. Lively alleges Baldoni inappropriately commented on her physical appearance. It was the other way around. But she didn't allege that, unless he's saying that was the thing where she had the hoodie on or whatever. The, um, yeah, the hoodie over the, that's the only other thing, because in the bar scene she didn't allege that.

0:43:56 Lydia: No, yeah, no, I think, I think they must be pulling from a different example, but like, hey, if you feel that strongly about it, that the allegation is wrong, then go ahead and cite it. Direct us to where in her complaint she alleges that. And there's no citation. You feel so confident that you're destroying this bit by bit, then show me, show me draw the lines to what you are talking about, where and how it's wrong.

0:44:14 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, he is purposefully confusing things because here is the entire, it's one paragraph actually in her complaint, that's this. It says, "On another occasion, Mr. Baldoni and Miss Lively were filming a slow dance scene for a montage in which no sound was recorded. Mr. Baldani chose to let the camera roll and have them perform the scene but did not act in the character's rile and said he he spoke to Miss Lively out of character as himself. At one point, he leaned forward and slowly dragged his lip from her ear down to her neck and said, it smells so good. None of this was remotely in character or based on any dialogue in the script and nothing needed to be said because again, there was no sound. Mr. Baldoni was caressing Miss Lively with his mouth in a way that had nothing to do with their roles. When Miss Lively later objected to this behavior, Mr. and it says Mr. Baldoni. Mr. Baldy's response was, I'm not even attracted to you. Do you see anything about comments on her physical appearance in there?

0:44:27 Lydia: Yeah.

0:45:03 Lydia: No.

0:45:04 Thomas: Nope, because it's not there. This is him talking about a different thing, but blending it together and responding in a way that's misleading because she didn't allege that there. And so if you are saying, ah, I've got a big gotcha, you were the one who said I should get a nose job. It's like, well, but that wasn't the allegation in that section. She didn't allege the fact that he commented on her appearance. That's a different allegation.

0:45:23 Lydia: Yeah.

0:45:24 Thomas: And also, by the way, not for nothing, if you're just talking, oh, comments on physical appearance, like a joke about a nosejob. Yeah, I think that's kind of in poor taste, but we've talked about about that but That's a different thing than being like, hey, sexy, take off your hoodie, like That's, or whatever, you know, like, I want to see your cleavage, like, that's not

0:45:33 Lydia: Oh yeah, well, we, yeah, we both agree that that's gross. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you could say like a, like, hostile work environment or something like that

0:45:46 Thomas: Yeah, like a negative comment about physical appearance might be bad, and I guess in some contexts could be sexual harassment, but if you're trying to do a, like, oh no, you did it, those are two way different things. Her joking like, oh well, time to get a nose job. Yeah, that's insulting maybe, and you can if he was was upset with that, but sure. But for him to say that was actually the sexual or something versus what he's alleged to have done, which is to say, hey, take off your hoodie so we can see your boobs essentially. Like those are very different.

0:45:59 Lydia: Yeah.

0:46:12 Lydia: Yeah, incredibly.

0:46:15 Thomas: So I guess that's that. Again, go back and listen to the Varstein one if you want. We talked way more about that. Point four though, we're on to point four. All right, now they're going to respond to point four and I'll go ahead and read the actual point here. Physical touching and or comments on BL's physical appearance must only be Done slash made in connection with the character and scene work, not as to BL personally, except as written into the screenplay or as strictly required in connection with makeup or costume preparation, there is to be no physical touching, including hugging, of BL, her on -set personnel, and or her employees.

0:46:29 Lydia: Different now. Okay, in their narrative, point four is, and I'm just gonna do this side by side like we just did. This is how they sum it up from their perspective: "No physical touching of Lively, including hugging, or comments on her physical appearance except in connection with the character and or scene work, not as to Lively personally." But they're leaving out a key part of this where Lively included her staff. I think that's a little suspect personally, because from Lively's complaint we know that there were instances in which her staff were made to feel uncomfortable with

0:46:53 Thomas: Yeah.

0:47:19 Thomas: Yeah. You know, I was going to say, on one hand, I Was like, well, it's like Lively's the one suing, so you can't sue on behalf of someone else. But interesting thought I just had was I do think in terms of retaliation, I feel like that absolutely applies if you complained about behavior towards other people as well.

0:47:30 Lydia: Hugging. Yeah.

0:47:36 Thomas: You know, if I complain, hey, someone's sexually harassing this other person and the person doing it retaliates against me for reporting it, that would still be part of it. I don't know exactly how that matters here. It's in her complaint, but I guess they're kind of leaving that out of there. So sort of interesting. And it seems really, we noted, it seems very specific in her complaint. There's no reason that would be there unless she actually witnessed it happening and had a problem with it.

0:47:44 Lydia: Yeah.

0:47:57 Lydia: Yeah, or an employee expressed to her that they had a problem with it, yeah, directly.

0:48:04 Thomas: Right. Yeah. Well, how do they explain this? Well, they say none of that happened, I guess. That's fine.

0:48:08 Lydia: Yeah, exactly. This very first sentence right here, I'm going to read it. "To be clear, none of the named parties touched Lively when not in character, especially not in the manner suggested." That honestly is insane to me. There is no way that Justin Baldoni did not hug Blake Lively at some point during this entire time. There's no way. Why wouldn't you just say, just lean on the "not in manner suggested"? Why are you going to go to this absolute sort of thing like no one has ever touched her? There's no way. Yeah.

0:48:15 Thomas: That feels like a hard claim to back up. Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I kind of doubt that's, that's that seems like a big claim. Yeah. They're like, we don't even know her. Don't even knows who this is. Yeah. It's like you're going a little too far the other way. So I think the thing you pointed out becomes important here because they're trying to make it out like, oh, she just always confused the character. You know, she's just always confuse the character. Well, I doubt she confused her character for one of her staff, like I doubt I doubt, are you hugging my staff member as Lily Bloom or as that person? So I think that seems kind of intentional because that's what they go to, you know? Like, oh, she was just constant. It says, "Lively's constant confusion of references to her character is played by Lively as opposed to Lively herself." So a lot of that stuff, and then we, oh good, yeah, yeah, which is a good reason why that's like a problematic and weird way to do

0:48:46 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. What?

0:49:17 Lydia: An odd, what an odd thing to say too, because it's like, as far as we know, Blake Lively's like not a method actor. I think you could probably say something like that for someone who, like, is the person that they are portraying, you know, in an offset, and we have no indication that that's accurate for Blake Lively. So that's just very strange. So yeah, I don't know.

0:49:39 Thomas: Stuff unless everybody is on the same page.

0:49:42 Thomas: So now we get the explanation for the, the onesie thing, and we've gone through this at length. I don't even know that we need to do this.

0:49:48 Lydia: I know, that's how I feel about a lot of this stuff. Yeah.

0:49:51 Thomas: Again, yeah. Well, we're trying to find the new stuff, so I just find her version plausible and his version not plausible. We've gotten through it, you know, we. We can, you can refer back to that in whatever episode that was.

0:49:53 Lydia: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, he seems to assert in this paragraph though that the way that he remembers the interaction is documented on camera while they were filming, so I'd like to see that if that's truly accurate. They released the dance footage, I wonder why they didn't release

0:50:09 Thomas: Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah, yeah. I know that's the thing. It's like either you would release nothing because that's not you don't try things normally. And like if there's normal court stuff, you don't do that. But they did release the dancing footage.

0:50:21 Lydia: That. Right. Mm -hm.

0:50:27 Thomas: So and we poked a lot of holes in that, even though I do think like there's elements of that that were good for Baldoni's case. Certainly, ultimately, I obviously still side with kind of what she's saying. But I think if they release that, that's got to be like the best thing for them. You know, like if this if this was equally good. And this is a very short, distinct thing, too. This is like, oh, it just happened real quick. And for some reason, he says his statements were immediately followed by his gesture that she had something in her teeth and requests for someone on set to get her a toothpick. What? I don't. And this is this exchange, all of which is captured on camera, demonstrates, demonstrates how ludicrous and deliberately malicious Lively's allegations are. Why does that demonstrate that?

0:50:28 Lydia: Yeah, why would he? Yeah.

0:51:10 Thomas: Since I said she had something in her teeth, I couldn't have sexually harassed her. That's just science.

0:51:14 Lydia: What a weird Weird thing to include. I just find it suspect that they were willing to release the dance footage to all the outlets and stuff and try and address what they felt was like a misleading narrative about that scene. And here, apparently, they have the opportunity to do that again, and they're choosing not to. Yeah, like a point-by-point thing.

0:51:30 Thomas: Yeah. Imagine how powerful that would have been if they released like a bunch of stuff. That was all. I think it's funny here, too. We've gone into this before, but I like how he's like trying to make like, oh, no, it's hot. I was just talking about the heat. And then what's funny is he knows that after that, he said sexy or something. And so he has to make like, well, since that didn't work, I had to then switch tactic because she had earlier expressed that she wanted her character's wardrobe to be sexy. So then after saying, well it's going to be 90 degrees in the bar with no air conditioning. So, you know, you got to take it off.

0:52:04 Thomas: Then after that I was like, Well, it'll be sexy stupid.

0:52:04 Lydia: Yeah, I remembered her beanie comment and her use of the word sexy, and so I decided to apply it here. Or if

0:52:10 Thomas: Oh God. It's just not plausible. It is not. I'm sorry, that's not plausible, which is not stupid. And we'll see, hey, if you have the footage, uh He comments on the nose thing again.

0:52:18 Lydia: It is then, yeah, then show us the footage. Yeah, this last sentence though is like such a dig and really obnoxious to me. Baldoni, this is in paragraph 95, Baldoni, rather than adding it to a list of grievances, brushed it off and moved on with the

0:52:29 Thomas: Okay, yep, maybe that's because it wasn't really that big of a grievance. And in the context of what was happening, I mean, it was a little weird, but yeah, it's like one thing to be like, "Oh, that person said a rude thing." That's different than saying, "Oh, I'm being sexually harassed, and someone's made a gross work environment. It's different.

0:52:40 Lydia: Scene, I feel unsafe," yeah. Very quickly though, before we move on, like, like if it were something that truly bothered him, I mean, it bothered us when we heard it, wouldn't it been nice to have, like, an HR department that he could, could have gone to to discuss, you know, like, like his options there that would have been

0:52:55 Thomas: Things, yeah, yeah, yeah, and again, I think he made it infinitely worse by, by jumping to Jenny Slate.

0:53:07 Lydia: Nice. Oh yeah.

0:53:11 Thomas: I mean, it's one thing to be like, okay, yeah, that was a rude comment, but he took it to an 11 right away with someone else, which is like, at best, I'd call that a push. Like that's a tie. And then they just keep going to the same, like, to then bring this to the New York Times. It's like, just save that for like the end. Like I don't, they have to do it in every single paragraph. But anyway, and as for everyone, they're saying, despite the flawed factual premise underlying Lively's demand in the face of Lively refusal to return to work, Quayfair agreed to this condition. Okay, sure.

0:53:37 Lydia: One question

0:53:52 Thomas: They're still doing that?

0:53:54 Lydia: Though, on that previous paragraph where they say, you know, that they shared this false characterization, blah blah blah, then waiting nearly two weeks to file the complaint with this court, thus depriving him the opportunity to engage in discovery before the damage is done, yeah.

0:53:54 Thomas: Oh, for fuck's sake. Well, first off, she did file a formal complaint. Like, she filed a complaint. Then waiting nearly two weeks to file the complaint with this court, thus depriving him the opportunity to engage in discovery before the damage is done. I mean, that's just silly.

0:54:06 Lydia: You don't engage in discovery before a complaint, is like, that's insane. We're witnessing how long discovery takes.

0:54:08 Thomas: That takes months. Yeah. Well, yeah, they're still in it.

0:54:15 Lydia: Like, we just went through it in real time. Yeah.

0:54:17 Thomas: It doesn't, it's just so stupid. I'm, I mean it, like, who is falling for this? Yeah.

0:54:21 Lydia: It's just like an inaccurate portrayal of how the justice system works. I can't believe, like, that a lawyer decided to write that.

0:54:28 Thomas: All right, point five there to be, oh, this one's pretty much word for word because it's short here to be no discussions of personal experiences with sex or nudity, including as it relates to conduct with spouses or others. I think we've also been through a lot of that. We're getting more of the, "She took photos of Baldoni holding and comforting her newborn in her home, so naturally," yeah.

0:54:32 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Which has nothing to do with your orgasm experiences with your partner. Like, that's the result, I guess, of an orgasm experience. But it feels

0:54:51 Thomas: Yeah, no, and so naturally once you've held the bit, yeah yeah. Yeah. Pretty weak, flimsy crap. "Baldoni filmed her uncontrollably laughing with him as they rehearsed late into the," yeah, it feels kind of gross. And it's also just timing stuff. Like, I don't know when this was, whatever. I can't get away from the fact that we need to, for one, we need hear from witnesses and stuff. And again, my biggest complaint about, well, no, I shouldn't say that, but my main appeal to anyone who's on the Baldoni side of this is the very best you could do is, well, it's a he said, she said, we'd better wait for the more evidence or for the other, like that's the best you Could do. And instead people just are like, no, she's a fucking liar, harass everybody involved. And that's just wrong.

0:55:03 Lydia: So creepy.

0:55:24 Lydia: Right.

0:55:36 Thomas: Like there's no way. Cause this is just, he said she said they waited for the, he says, and then they're like, well, that's The truth.

0:55:37 Lydia: Right. That's the fact. Yeah. Yeah.

0:55:42 Thomas: So she's a liar. So this is that one. And we kind of touched on this with the intimacy coordinator notes, for example, in response to a proposal from the intimacy coordinator.

0:55:45 Lydia: Yeah. We have no proof that it was actually a it was proposed by the intimacy coordinator.

0:55:54 Thomas: I don't know about that. Yeah. Yeah, again, what do they do? I don't think they say, well, I've got an idea.

0:55:59 Lydia: We went through that. But yeah, this would be hot.

0:56:04 Thomas: How about, yeah, it's like they help you. Anyway, who knows? Maybe, but it just seems off to me. In response to a proposal from the intimacy coordinator that Baldoni's character riled not orgasm after he satisfied Lily, Lively remarked, "I'd be mortified if that happened to me." Personalizing the character's sexual act. Baldoni following Lively's lead in what he understood to be an attempt to connect with and develop their character's remark that those have been some of the most beautiful moments between himself and his wife.

They then moved on. So there's some of this stuff that seems like it could be in the realm of, you know, I've said this before, if they were discussing characters, if there's discussing scenes and they talked about like their experiences, but I feel like the way she put it, I think if it was just that, I don't think it would have been a huge problem.

I think the one One that I remember from her complaint was more like something like, hey, do you guys ever orgasm together or whatever, you know, like, and it just was a lot more direct than than like, oh, well, you mean me and my wife, blah, blah. Like, that's that's one thing, I guess.

0:56:55 Lydia: Yeah. At the same time, it could also fit in the realm of you sort of rethink some of those other interactions. And you're like, oh, that upon reflection, that does seem a little off. And then include that in your lawsuit potentially is like as pattern of behavior. Whereas like in the moment you might have brushed it off or not really thought anything of it, and I think that that's possible here too.

0:57:15 Thomas: Yeah, I think this is one where there could be misunderstanding here. There could be stuff. I think it'll be I don't think the case is going to hinge on these kinds of conversations. You know, I mean, I don' think it's enough that she reported a lot of stuff and then was retaliated against. I think that's going to be a lot of it. It's interesting that he says, in another instance, as Lively and Baldoni were developing their scenes, Lively said, I don't want it to look like porn and then offered up that she had never seen porn in her life. A very personal fact. That sounds, it's weird.

0:57:26 Lydia: Well

0:57:50 Thomas: He quoted the I don'T want it TO look like PORN and then not that thing, which I don' t know if that matters because it's all just kind of the he said, she said here. That seems surprising to me. I don''t know who would say that. That's a weird thing. Who would say they've never seen PORNO? Is she super religious or something?

0:57:50 Lydia: I mean she never drank or did anything like that.

0:58:06 Thomas: A little bit straight edge.

0:58:06 Lydia: I don't think it's necessarily from religion. Yeah, I think it's just straight edge, and I don't necessarily find that hard to believe just with other elements of her approach to life that we've seen and that she's openly discussed and stuff, and that would be kind of a weird thing for him to totally lie about here. Sure.

0:58:24 Thomas: Yeah. I think it's important. What is happening here is a lot of confusion and blending as to the actual allegations. So we're on paragraph 55 of her complaint. Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath discussed their personal sexual experiences in previous porn addiction and tried to pressure Miss Lively to reveal details about her intimate life. This says during a car ride with Miss Lifully, her assistant and driver, Mr. Baldoni claimed to Miss Litely that he had been sexually abused by a former girlfriend, which she has since shared publicly. At the end of this story, Mr. Baldoni shared that it had caused him to re -examine his past.

He then said, "Did I always ask for consent? No. Did I alway listen when they said no? No." Mr. Baldoni claimed this was an example of how we all have things from which we can learn and grow. Ms. Lively was unsettled by Mr. Baldoni's suggestion that he had engaged in sexual conduct without consent. When Ms. Lively exited the car, her driver immediately remarked that he did not want Ms. Lively to be alone with Mr. Baldoni going forward, which, wow, imagine what that conversation must have been like. Yeah, so that's part of this section. Oh, there was the one that where they talked about passing a woman, like, back and

0:59:19 Lydia: Yeah. That guy's going to be on the witness stand, I bet. Oh, right.

0:59:30 Thomas: Forth, kind of a weird. And then the pornography thing. Let's see, 57. Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath often spoke of their previous pornography addiction. Mr. Baldone would often reference pornography to Miss Lively, hoping to shut the subject down. She said to him privately that she had never seen it. Later, when Mr. Baldoney was once again referencing his his experiences with pornography, he revealed in front of other cast and crew that Miss Lively had never seen porn. It was an incredible invasion of her privacy to discuss any aspect of her intimate life with the cast and Crew, much less reveal something that she had only told Mr. Baldoni to try to get him to stop talking about the subject with her. That's right. Now I remember. This is way more disgusting than he's trying to portray. So, I mean, it is part of the complaint that he was talking about porn too much, but it wasn't just that it was that she said something. And then he blurts it out and repeats it in front of other cast members. And that's just like, obviously not okay.

1:00:08 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Now I remember too. Wow. Yeah

1:00:25 Thomas: There could be something you're okay having a conversation with someone about in private. And then if they decided in a workplace, like you might be, you know, like have a more of a friendship in the workplace or something, or somebody you're confiding in, if they decide to then blurt out personal stuff you've told them in front of all your coworkers, that's a different thing. And it is completely legitimate to have a complaint about that. That.

1:00:25 Lydia: Mm mm-hmm. Yeah.

1:00:47 Lydia: I mean, like, even on the angle of, like, you know, like, this friendship, if if I had a friend where I, like, told them something that was, you know, pretty personal, pretty private, and then they just, like, blast it out to a bunch bunch of people without talking to me about it first, without asking if I was okay sharing that information about myself with all these other people, that's friendship ending. Um, and so, like, like, there there's elements here, there's layers of this relationship that he just showed that he cannot be trusted from a personal sort of relationship, a working relationship, like, there's there's nothing there.

I don't blame her for, like, that erodes trust in all of those different different aspects, any goodwill that you would, that he had expected because they had built this relationship etc. etc. over, you know, these months and stuff, he just killed all of it. I mean, through a bunch of different acts, but like, but even if it was just that, I would not be surprised that she's like, I don't trust you anymore. I'm not going to tell you anything anymore, you know. I'm not surprised it turned out the way it did, even if it had only been this one specific

1:01:55 Thomas: He does say, and I think this is probably important, he says that, or well, they say, the parties say that Heath wasn't part of this conversation at all, and maybe it's possible she misremembered this. Moreover, Heath, who had nothing to do with this exchange and has never had a porn addiction or even mentioned porn in Lively's presence, was falsely and knowingly lumped into this accusation. So maybe they're right there. Maybe they have a point there.

1:02:18 Lydia: Instance.

1:02:18 Thomas: Maybe she blended some things together. Who knows? We'll see.

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1:02:27 Thomas: All right, that's where we're leaving it for today. What do we have to look forward to?

1:02:31 Lydia: Oh, the birth video. Oh my gosh, we've talked about this before, but there's still so much to talk about related to this freaking birth video.

1:02:34 Thomas: Oh yeah. Yeah. We're not, we're not going through, you know, a lot of that we're not going through again, but there's, there's some, a few new things to go through on that point that, uh, and then we'll be on our merry way in terms of the other points in the list. All right. Well, with that to look toward to, thanks so much for listening, Gavelinos. Do all the things, share the show, patreon .com slash gavelpod. Listen, enjoy, rate, review. If it's a good review, if not, don't, because it's like the Uber Lyft system where if you have like a 4 .8, you might as well kill yourself. You know, like that's kind of how it goes.

1:02:46 Lydia: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yep.

1:03:04 Lydia: If not, leave us alone. Yeah.

1:03:12 Thomas: So anyway, that's why I put it at the end of the show, because the people who hate us don't get this far. You know.

1:03:16 Lydia: There you go.

1:03:16 Thomas: They don't know our secret. Please don't give us bad reviews. All right. Thanks so much for listening, everyone. We'll see you next time.