Lively v. Baldoni 41 - Calling Yourself a "Ball Buster" Is as Bad as Sexually Harassing Someone When You Think About It

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:26 Thomas: It's gavel time. How's it going? I'm Thomas. That's Lydia.

0:00:28 Lydia: Hi, yeah.

0:00:29 Thomas: How are you doing?

0:00:29 Lydia: Good, good. I am good, actually. I said that like as a as a habit. And then I reflected on it and I was like, wait, no, I actually am doing pretty well today.

0:00:33 Thomas: Wow. Wow. That that's profound. You're having a real realization in the moment.

0:00:43 Lydia: It is. I feel connected to like my mind. Yeah, yeah, I think I actually got good sleep. So, you know,

0:00:44 Thomas: I'm I'm well, I'm well, everyone. Well, braggy. What's what are you so happy about? Jeez.

0:00:57 Lydia: The bar is really low.

0:01:00 Thomas: Is it a good day to work our way through some of this complaint?

0:01:03 Lydia: So, you know, yeah, if I'm going to have to do this, today is a good day to do that. Most other days, the answer would be no. But today I'm feeling ready.

0:01:11 Thomas: Well, in that case, I'm so glad that this intro takes place on this very same day that we are going to to go on to talk about Wayfair V Lively, because that's the only way we're ready is if today is the day that the rest of this podcast episode is.

0:01:19 Lydia: Nothing to see here. Yeah. Yeah. It's podcast magic, ladies and gentlemen.

0:01:31 Thomas: Well, where did we last leave our beloved characters?

0:01:35 Lydia: Well, last we heard, there was an ultimatum in the air. It was this ultimatium from Blake Lively that she was going to threaten his reputation. But now we get this text that I am super excited about, kind of chatted about it in the outro last episode, where I found it incredibly clarifying. It's a conversation between another producer, with Jamie Heath in particular, and I really think it sets the stage for a conversation that's really, really important about what was happening behind the scenes, maybe like what the root of all of this drama was. And if it actually was Blake Lively or if someone else might hold a little bit of responsibility here too.

0:02:18 Thomas: Yeah. I also say this is probably this text exchange we're about to get to is maybe some of Baldoni's better evidence, but it's also confusing. So like, we'll see what you all make of it, but it's some of his better evidence, and I know that that's relatively speaking, for the idea that Blake was a problem on set of some kind, but it also doesn't entirely fit in with the rest of what's going on in the timeline in a way that makes it feel to me more like possibly this wasn't that big of a deal and it's being shoehorned in later, but we'll let you all be the judge. So we're gonna take our usual break. You would have heard all of this so long ago had you been at patreon.com/GavelGavel where you could find the podcast, because it wasn't available in the normally feed, because we suck and we're too busy, and sorry about that, we'll fix that going forward, hopefully, but that's where you will have been able to hear this much earlier.

0:02:27 Lydia: Mm, mm -hmm, mm, yeah.

0:03:18 Thomas: We love our patrons, so at least we're doing that for them anyway. patreon.com/GavelPot. Thanks so much to those who support, and you can skip this ad you're about to hear before we get into this text exchange.

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0:03:36 Lydia: And now we have a text thread here, which I think this actually bolsters my opinion from earlier about the producer, Jamie, chat on the side basically being like, Justin needs to figure this out because Justin is messing this up. Where the producer says here, he cannot let her have opinions on everything. Jamie Heath says, Blake, the producer or she's going to be co -directing this film. Yes. Jamie, yeah, we were talking about that a lot yesterday. Producer, exactly. This is why everyone is starting to lose it. We've been talking about the same thing for months. Jamie says, yep, it's starting to get resolved. The producer, no, it is not. And so I read that conversation.

People in Hollywood deal with divas all the time and like attitudes and stuff from celebrities all the time. What this producer is expressing here from my My perspective is Justin needs to literally put that director hat on, pull up his pants and just like like have the tough conversations because we've been tiptoeing around it for months. We're still having the same arguments, the same issues that we feel on this from the production side of this. And it has to be resolved. And he's the one that has to do it. She's not saying like Blake needs to stop having opinions on everything. She's saying he cannot let her have opinions on anything. Entertaining it.

0:04:11 Thomas: Yeah.

0:04:46 Thomas: Yeah, and now that we've gone back in time to April 20th, now it makes my point even more clear, like she said on April 25th, "Hey, if you don't like what's going on, fire you know, recast me, okay, just do it. Why didn't he do it? Well, because he imagined there's a big threat, you know, or

0:04:50 Lydia: Oh, yeah. He had he had an opportunity. Yeah, exactly. And look where we are now.

0:05:06 Thomas: Whatever. I fully allowed for the fact that, I don't know, maybe she was being extra here, maybe she had too many any opinions. If the producer did think that, and the producer at this point, I don't know why we'd have any reason to doubt this that I can think of now. If a producer is saying this is why everyone's starting to lose it. Yeah. Maybe she was taken up all the time. We've been in those theater productions where we're like, okay, can we fucking move on?

0:05:26 Lydia: Yeah.

0:05:27 Thomas: Like you've already, you've already, yeah, maybe she was being extra in that way. And if the producer was unhappy about it and communicating that to Jamie Heath to like, Hey, he needs to kind of take control. Yeah, yeah, maybe that was frustrating.

0:05:38 Lydia: And also an interesting thing in the returns to production, like the protections that her legal team put together, Blake's legal team, put together. One of the things that she called out was that Alex Sachs, this producer, would have equal responsibility for what was happening on set. And so I think, like, we've seen that here. We've seen that in various other places where this is the person who is handling things professionally on the set that, like, is actually trying to make a movie and get things done and clearly not being treated with the respect, or, like, or her opinions aren't mattering as much in this. She's seeing issues ahead of time and expresses them to Jamie Heath directly, and they do not get addressed, and it's interesting to me that, like, I don't think she really likes Blake anyway, but Blake was like, she needs to have an equal voice and all this stuff. Mm

0:06:26 Thomas: That is interesting. I also think, like, honestly, a couple of ways to read this. It sounds like it's possible Baldoni is not able to stick up for himself and is kind of just a weak leader and can't manage Blake. Now, if he wants to say that's because he was intimidated or she's bigger or whatever, that's all, again, you signed up for this job. That's what you're going to have to do as a director. That happens on nearly every single film, I'm sure. Actors are notoriously this way. And so that's just his inexperience as a director.

And maybe it still sucks of her, by the way. I'll fully believe maybe she was trying to take too much control. I would also believe that maybe Baldoni is not doing a good job and she wants the movie to not suck. Like I genuinely that could be it because Baldoni has no fucking experience, really, like barely any. She has a ton. I don't understand what this is. I'm not saying this is being deceptive, but when I read something like this, I am envisioning that they're shooting a scene and she won't shut the fuck up. But this is the same day they announced Brandon Sklenar's casting.

0:06:36 Lydia: -hmm Yep. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah.

0:07:21 Thomas: So like they're not anywhere close to filming. Like they're a few weeks away, right? Or at least isn't it early May?

0:07:27 Lydia: I think May, May 12th maybe is when they

0:07:29 Thomas: If this is just like a meeting, the producer is saying we've been talking about the same thing for months. I mean, is it just production meetings? I guess it must be.

0:07:33 Lydia: Officially. Yeah, so I, I know that, like, the wardrobe issues were coming up here in terms of, like, the budget and stuff. There were concerns there, and yeah, I guess it's just bits and pieces that she's having opinions on, and Baldoni says, "Yeah, sounds great to her."

0:07:40 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, sure. Yeah yeah. And that's the thing. If he has given her every indication, which he has every indication, that he wants her to to contribute rather than standing up for himself and the film and having integrity as a director, you can't blame her for that, honestly. Like maybe even if she is being a bit too, like, controlling here, if she's tried to contribute and she's given you every out, by the way. She said in that, we talked about those messages, she said, "Hey, if you want me to butt out," 100, and he said, "No, you're the best."

0:08:02 Lydia: Face Yeah. Mm. -hm Yeah.

0:08:16 Thomas: I love it so much when you contribute, and then he's gonna say later on, "I hated it whole time, whole time, hate it." Well, then fuck you, you're a liar then. Like, there's a certain point where, yeah, I won at some point, white lying, I get it, you know, like, okay, you're kind of smoothing these over. At a certain point it becomes your fucking fault, like if you just literally tell someone to their face constantly, "I like this, this is great," and then later on to someone else you're like, "Why does she keep doing this? I don't understand. She won't." It's like

0:08:24 Lydia: Grow some balls and say it. Yeah. Yeah, and I think that constantly is important there, right? Because if it's like one time and you kind of, like, white lie through it because you don't want to damage that relationship, okay, now you're better prepared for the next time that this comes up and you can handle it better, but he didn't. It was repeatedly over and over and over again, and it's clearly causing tension with his production team, where they're chatting about, I have to imagine they're chatting about it directly with him. Jamie indicates that he did in that text message that we just read. So he's aware that this is an issue. Then why don't you address it? Why don't you address this?

0:08:54 Thomas: Yeah.

0:09:12 Thomas: Yeah, you know what, okay, here's, once again, I'm fully just talking shit here, this is consistent with my Baldoni's trying to fuck her theory, and his bro Jamie Heath is kind of like understanding that and in on it, and

0:09:20 Lydia: Hmm. Doesn't want to cock block.

0:09:25 Thomas: And this producer is like, why the fuck is he not saying no to her? And Jamie's like, no, yeah, we're trying. It's getting resolved.

0:09:30 Lydia: Yeah. Hmm. It's getting better.

0:09:34 Thomas: We're doing it's consistent with that is all I'm saying. And so is the voicemail. And so as a lot of other stuff is all I'm saying, but I don't know. It could be that he's just a fucking coward. Could be that.

0:09:41 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. A bit of that and also wanting to be wanted. Yeah?

0:09:46 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. So there you go. And that is before the plane ride. Because we jumped in time. So, like, the plane, right? And when he's saying they get along so well, that's all after this. So what are we to believe here? It gets confusing when you change up your timeline so much, it

0:09:51 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah Yeah, absolutely. That's done purposefully when you do stuff like that.

0:10:02 Thomas: Feels like it. I mean, I will, I guess I will say that if you're talking about the different allegations, you know, one is the fat shaming, one's the costuming, and like, I guess it is true that rather than doing the George RR Martin tell a little bit from each character's point of view at that time kind of thing, you have to, like, do that storyline, but in this, in this case, I don't think so, because you could have just told this in order. This feels very intentional to me. It might not be intentional all the time. It might be because Like, well, we have have to, like, jump in time in order to tell, like, one of the storylines. Absolutely.

0:10:24 Lydia: Yeah, that's fair. Well, I think that's something that we've experienced, too, with all the stuff with Andrew. It becomes really complicated when you try to explain a certain period of time of your life with all these different people and instances and stuff. Telling that story gets just really, really complicated. So I guess I have empathy for them in that respect. It's really hard to ask someone to live a period of your life and absorb it all. Yeah. After Ryan Reynolds said, fuck you to Baldoni, et cetera, et cetera, after the ultimatum.

0:10:54 Thomas: So May 3rd is when the suppositories thing was. We've already read this, but again, because we're jumping around, like if we're going in timeline order, May 3d, so after supposedly she's taking over and this is so bad, after that they're texting. After the ultimate, after all this stuff, Blake is saying, "I feel the same. It's such a good feeling to get work done that we're proud of and to do it together. It just clicks when we find it, and that's just as rewarding as filming it or editing it or marketing it or releasing it. This is all storytelling. This is why we do it. Thank you for your collaboration. I'm really proud of what we're doing." He hit love on that. I like sentimental Blake never met her. I also like asshole Blake. "Don't worry." "Okay, good night." I've met her, so my suppository is "good night" and laugh react. So, like, again, he seems to be okay with this collaboration or he really did not do enough to discourage it at any time to where I don't know why you would expect Blake to do anything other than continue to collaborate.

0:11:49 Lydia: I also want to note that they cut off this text exchange. So it starts with Justin saying, well played. And then Blake saying, I feel the same. OK, well, I don't know. I feel the same. So he started this with a compliment.

0:11:53 Thomas: Hmm. Hmm, interesting.

0:12:04 Thomas: Right. Probably, yeah.

0:12:04 Lydia: He started this mit something about how great it is to work with her, because if she's saying "I feel the same," it's not too "well played." I wonder why they're not showing us what is there. So closing out the fat shaming bit, post meeting, etc. Yeah.

0:12:08 Thomas: Good catch. Yeah, yeah, good catch. Interesting. Yeah. It's that section, but this is about the like, yeah this is the, yeah oh this is, yeah that doesn't make any sense. This is where they threw in the April 20th text about it's gonna get resolved. The ones we just read between producer and Jamie Heath. Hey why is he letting her direct blah blah blah. And then the The very next sentence is paragraph 53.

0:12:21 Lydia: Yeah.

0:12:31 Lydia: Right, this was the first time Lively openly moved to seize control of the film from Baldoni.

0:12:38 Thomas: What? What was the first time? Yeah. He, she implicitly openly took over

0:12:38 Lydia: But it would not be the last. Also, openly moved. He also called it implicit. That's not openly.

0:12:48 Thomas: Impliedly. Yeah. It's just so clear he's retconning.

0:12:48 Lydia: Moved. Choose a lane.

0:12:52 Thomas: Like this is how, if you had to fucking craft a narrative out of stuff that is kind of like there's some amount of stuff there, but not enough. So you have to, it's awkward to fit this story into it.

0:13:02 Lydia: Yeah, so here's the thing. I want to give a little bit of understanding to believing this stuff, because, like, if you're just reading this mountain of a document and you see screenshots of text that seem to say the things that they, the narrative says, if you are not picking it apart like we have been doing, losing your mind slowly over the course of a

0:13:10 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, if you are not starting a podcast, taking way too long, getting behind and behind, regretting that you started this thing, wishing we hadn't, Googling, can I invent, who has Time Machine invented?

0:13:31 Lydia: Year. Time machine But I can understand why there are folks on Reddit who read this and they're like, wow, she's really, like, pulled the wool over our eyes or whatever, right? Like, look at what happened here. I can understanding that she's like, oh my god, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry, I can't understand if you just read this once kind of absorbing the narrative that they're telling you. And it is a privilege and a curse to be able to pull this apart, but I'm glad we're doing

0:13:57 Thomas: Yeah. On one hand, I guess I do understand that there are people who don't read. On the other hand, I hate that there Are people who Don't read and it is I mean, it is on them for lying. There's so many times where they just say, here's what happened. And then directly under it is not Not that. It's like, come on.

0:14:02 Lydia: It. Well There's some. Yeah, but here's the thing. Okay, so, like I just want to say, like, like, yes, directly under that is a fair criticism to have, but this was the first time Lively openly moved to seize control. Like, your brain is just kind of skipping over the "openly moved." You're not thinking about them saying "implicit" before and, like, the comparison between the two. Like, that's just not happening when you're reading something for one

0:14:20 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's true. I don't know if I would say it's good lawyering per se, but it's Good Lying. There are people who are good at making these fake things up. And Andrew Torrez was really good at it. Created entire storylines that weren't there and then found things to, like, or he's just delusional. Like, you never know. Yeah. And so I think that maybe people like Friedman or whoever mainly wrote this are able to say, okay, our storyline is she's taking control, and just look for everything that might kind of say that, over describe it, like, like describe it in ways that aren't that, but then people's brains fill in the gaps, to your point. And it, yeah, it's like you do have to actually read carefully, you know? Yeah, yeah, no, it's good lying. I'll give them that.

0:14:30 Lydia: Time. Yeah. Yeah, agreed. Yep. Concerning, right? It could be his is reality. And that's concerning to me.

0:14:59 Lydia: Yeah. And if it works for like 75 % of whoever's going to be reading this, then you've done your job, you know? All right.

0:15:14 Thomas: Read the heading there. Builds

0:15:14 Lydia: But now we get into some meaty stuff. Filming begins as Lively builds her takeover strategy.

0:15:20 Thomas: Her takeover strategy. Weird. Okay, she's still building it. Before she was openly doing it, and she had the fat shaming, but okay, she's building still. Let her cook. Okay.

0:15:27 Lydia: Yeah, oh my gosh. Okay, let her cook. So we finally get to production. "Principal photography began for the film early early May 2023. On set, Lively continued to maintain what later appeared to be a facade of a close, caring relationship with Baldoni, even as she continued to make escalating demands for creative control." Yeah, so by the time production began, Lively and Baldoni had worked closely together for months, and Lively expressed warm gratitude for her collaboration with Baldomi on the eve of filming. We get a text here that seems to have been extracted

0:15:48 Thomas: Yeah.

0:15:57 Thomas: What? Yeah, this is so weird, but it says platform, and then that's, like, edited, so I don't know if it's a different messaging. Well

0:16:00 Lydia: And so they have access to, to extracting texts.

0:16:08 Lydia: No, this looks a lot like you would see with like Cellbrite or whatever, right? I'm not saying that that's the vendor they used, but this is not a screenshot. This is not printout of an email. This is something that is a little more, it's just generated in a different way. And I think that's really interesting.

0:16:16 Thomas: No, maybe. Yeah, that's fucking weird. Yeah, but I don't think they had done actual extraction software at this point, is my point, so I don't know what this is. And the timestamp at the bottom makes no sense because it's before. So, like, we're reading a thing. There's no means so much. We even read it, did we?

0:16:29 Lydia: No, not necessarily. Yeah. Yeah, no.

0:16:36 Thomas: There's no means so much to me. I'm excited to start tomorrow, but it's only one piece of the journey. We started months ago, blah, blah. Let's do this shit. So it's a Blake Lively being like, awesome. We're about to start. But then we get this like from blank, and I guess it's her number, Blake Lively to Justin Baldoni. And I guess probably his number after.

0:16:50 Lydia: Well, and also it's Justin Baldoni is typed over it because we know that he has a burner phone with a different name.

0:16:55 Thomas: Ah, good point. Good point. Yeah. Blake Lively's not typed over, but Justin Baldani is. Priority normal participant, Justin Baldini delivered such and such read on basically that exact second.

0:17:03 Lydia: So yeah, it's Just weird.

0:17:09 Thomas: And And then status red platform blank. And then a timestamp that's six hours -ish before what we just said.

0:17:15 Lydia: Weird, yeah, nothing makes sense.

0:17:17 Thomas: Nothing makes sense. And they're the same. It says UTC plus zero for both. So they're same time zone.

0:17:20 Lydia: Yeah, it's just so weird. It's so different. It's not their normal, so it was just shocking to me to kind of see this formatting.

0:17:27 Thomas: Yeah. In the timeline, it's not this. It's back to the screenshots. What the fuck? I'm sorry that we waste time on this stuff, guys. But like, this is so confusing.

0:17:34 Lydia: Oh, maddening, yeah.

0:17:37 Thomas: This doesn't make sense. Like, why would, what is happening here? I don't have, I'm not saying conspiracy theory explanation. I have no explanation. Like, either a good faith one or a conspiracy theory one, give me what this is, somebody, like, why do you have it one way in the timeline in a totally different made up way in the

0:17:45 Lydia: Yeah, oh, I know, it's just weird. It's weird what's happening Yeah, also the way that this is presented is, "Lively expressed warm gratitude for her collaboration with Baldoni on the eve of filming." And again, here we go to the exhibit, and Justin Baldoni initiates that conversation conversation. Yeah.

0:17:58 Thomas: Complaint?

0:18:07 Thomas: Oh yeah, maybe that's why, partially.

0:18:10 Lydia: Blake, well, here we are. Even though I've told you a bunch of times, I will say it again.

0:18:14 Thomas: Sorry, when you said Blake, that's just to clarify, this is Justin Baldoni's message and he says, "Hey, Blake," but but this wasn't Blake, so this is him initiating all this. Go ahead.

0:18:17 Lydia: Justin Baldoni. Yes. Hey, Blake. Yeah, yes. Well, here we are, even though I have told you a bunch times, I will say it again. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the part of you that told you to do this film. I'm fixing this as I go. Sorry. With me. Thank you for diving in head first and caring so much about every little detail. Oh. Thank you for not settling for good at the expense of great. Thank Thank you for the hard conversations and the fun ones. The long -ass nights and the flights rhyme not intentional. You are a once -in -a -lifetime talent, and you make everyone around you and everything you touch better. As your collaborator, your director, and your friend, I am so grateful and excited to take this journey with you and grateful for your trust in me. Let's tell the truth and enjoy ourselves while doing it. Love, Jay. P .S. Happy Mother's Day. You are also a fucking amazing mom. It's been a joy to witness how you love and adore your kids. They're all amazing and a testament to their parents. Something redacted.

0:18:35 Thomas: Sorry, hmm, wow, okay, collaborator.

0:19:13 Thomas: And then she says, "Laugh, laugh, finale for the win." Oh, that must be the joke. Is that whatever's redacted?

0:19:17 Lydia: So there must have been another Oh, could be, could be, yeah. The finale for the win.

0:19:23 Thomas: Interesting.

0:19:23 Lydia: So whatever's redacted, she laughs as a response. Whatever's personal joke between them, yep.

0:19:26 Thomas: And that's fine. That might be him protecting something personal, which I don't mind. But she says, laugh, laugh. The finale for the win. It must be that last redactED line. I love it. I Love that we're getting all that. We're getting a proactive. Thank you for collaborating. Thank you For writing, for taking the time to care about every little detail, to do everything that you're doing. Literally keep doing it. Thank thank you for doing it. You're my collaborator. Love it so much. Meanwhile, the narrative is like, God, he hated it so Much. It was the worst. He couldn't get out of it. He had no choice.

0:19:33 Lydia: I think So every little detail, yeah, everything you touch is better for it, yeah.

0:20:01 Lydia: And again

0:20:01 Thomas: He was being threatened. The mob was stepping on his balls right then and making him say it.

0:20:04 Lydia: Like, yeah, if that were the case, if he hated every single second, here was another opportunity, yeah. I mean, you could be like, "Like, really looking forward to tomorrow. We're going to have a lot of fun out there. Can't wait."

0:20:08 Thomas: Just don't send that message. Yeah.

0:20:14 Lydia: You know, sleep tight. Like, it could have been something like that or nothing at all. Could have been fine.

0:20:18 Thomas: Or if this is genuinely a problem, which I believe that it was, if that producer is saying it, like maybe it is a problem but he's just doing a bad job as director. How about he says, hey, this has been awesome. I got to say, we're getting stressed about schedule And we've been spending a lot of time.

0:20:30 Lydia: Sony's been breathing down our necks. Yeah. Yeah.

0:20:31 Thomas: Yeah, I have loved that we've collaborated, but we're going to need to like going forward on the shoot, like we got to dial it back a little bit in terms of the critiquing every decision, brainstorming ideas at every turn. Like I'm starting to get a little bit of heat for how long we're taking on that. So love the contribution. But if you can maybe streamline a bit. Yeah. Like find a nice diplomatic way. He had that option at any time and he didn't do it. But I think at this point with that producer text, I guess I'll go ahead and say that I believe that there was some issue there, but

0:20:47 Lydia: From here on out, I think we got to, yeah. Yeah. Yep.

0:20:59 Lydia: Mm -hmm. Incapable of leadership. Yeah. Mm -mm. Yep. Yeah. Yep. I know. It is. It's amazing. Yeah. I don't know.

0:20:59 Thomas: Either Baldoni didn't agree with that and was like, so in love with working with Blake that he's like, nah, it's fine. Or he's just a pathological liar and just tells her the opposite thing of what, yeah. Or, or that, like, I don't, cause it's in your own document, dude. It's not in your main document, but it's your timeline. This timeline document is like, it is. It's funny how much it undermines his complaint and yet he did it. Really weird. So we have no answer as to what this fucking metadata weird thing is. It's like, it almost looks like it's unrelated, like a different thing. But why is it even in there? Why wouldn't you just chop off the bottom part of the fucking so weird? Guys, if you want to know what we're talking about, page 35 of his 131 .25 Baldoni amended complaint that that's when it was. That version, this is blowing my mind. Just fuck this. Yeah.

0:21:46 Lydia: And then compare it, and then compare it to page 23 on Exhibit

0:21:51 Thomas: These little landmines that he set for anyone, maybe it's intentional, anyone who has a brain who wants to analyze this, they kill themselves after having looking at nonsense and we get another one. What the hell? Oh yeah, keep that last message sequence in mind and then reading the next sentence, even though this is under the heading of "Lively Builds Her Takeover Strategy," keep in mind what you just heard, which is Bald only being like, take my movie, please.

0:21:57 Lydia: A Yeah. She continues right throughout the first filming period. Yeah.

0:22:19 Lydia: Throughout the first filming period, Lively continued to share her open and unguarded thoughts on life and her

0:22:23 Thomas: I Wonder why. Could it be because you said I love so fucking much when you share your open and unguarded thoughts all the time? It's my favorite fucking thing ever.

0:22:35 Lydia: Character. She's like, okay, I'll give you more, I guess you like it.

0:22:38 Thomas: They make these arguments about women. You could argue that he's entrapping her into this thing. Like he's like, if this is true, he's literally lying her into trying to collaborate too much. I'm not saying that's true, but that's what they would say if the tables were reversed.

0:22:43 Lydia: It Yeah. Oh Yeah, yeah.

0:22:52 Thomas: They say she's entraping him into like this fake relationship. So then she can rip his heart out out later, whatever, you know, like what Stupid.

0:22:58 Lydia: Crazy. So while we were chatting about the movement of these messages and this next piece where it says, you know, she talked about wardrobe choices to make her character much sexier, it gives the example of the beanie and saying the beannie is much sexnier, it's the look, yada yada, that's dated May 17th, 2023. And when I was comparing that to the exhibit again, this is so great, thank you for doing this thing that the judge was like, why did you do this thing? May 15th is when the paparazzi took the pictures of her in character, making fun of her wardrobe, and then led to him in the trailer. So part of me is like, okay, there was the trailer May 16th. Now we get May 17th, where she's like, we'll show you both ways, but Beanie's much sexier. He's indicated to her that he cares about the paparaazzi thinking that her character doesn't, it looks frumpy and whatnot. Not, I think this text message is a direct response to what he has indicated as a director he's looking for because of how those paparazzi photos like impacted him. No

0:23:03 Thomas: Okay.

0:23:25 Thomas: No.

0:24:00 Thomas: No, because the sexy allegation is probably later

0:24:03 Lydia: Yeah, sexy allegation is later, but he has already expressed, because of the paparazi photos coming out, where I think she took it to be like, I want you to look sexier for this character

0:24:11 Thomas: Right. Oh Oh, so you're saying that So the allegation of the looks sexier thing is probably still later, and then he's pointing to this to say, ah, she said sexy first, but you are saying this is after whatever the fuck happened in the trailer when he's crying, and maybe he could have have been, I mean, we don't have proof of what he said, right? But he could have been expressing that she needs to look sexier for this reason. And that could have like led to this.

0:24:31 Lydia: Yeah.

0:24:41 Lydia: Yeah, he says in his exhibit, Baldoni approached Lively in her trailer to discuss necessary wardrobe adjustments and his desire to have more control of wardrobe decisions going forward. So with her saying like, hey, here's two options. Beanie's much sexier if that's what you're going for. Like that's to me an actress listening to the director if that'S what he said as part of that trailer meeting. She's kind of getting the idea, okay, like you want more control over this thing. Here's a couple different options and if you're, if sexy is the thing that you're going for, this in my opinion is sexier because of these reasons.

0:24:56 Thomas: Yeah.

0:25:07 Thomas: Yeah, right. But we should note the sexy allegation of Blake's is just so categorically different than this thing that it was already a lie. This already wasn't an answer to that. So just clarifying.

0:25:20 Lydia: Yeah, I just think this is, it's super interesting because the way that this is presented in the narrative is share her open and unguarded thoughts on life and her character, she talked about wardrobe choices to make her character quote much sexier, but then the example that they give from this is something that happened after the paparazzi photos, after the trailer breakdown, after him saying in Exhibit A, at which point he said he wanted more control over wardrobe. So I just don't see how this is any sort of like gotcha that like Blake was always, you know, talking about things being sexy and blah blah blah. Okay.

0:25:22 Thomas: But yeah, it's interesting. Yeah?

0:25:54 Thomas: All right. Paragraph 57 is meaningless and we should skip it except it's so fucking dumb that we have to read it to you.

0:26:00 Lydia: Lively continued to express her warm appreciation and respect for Baldoni as filming continued, even as she acknowledged she could be difficult and critical of others using the kind of language she herself would have alleged to be inappropriate. Footnote

0:26:14 Thomas: Yeah they're claiming that she would have alleged this to be inappropriate.

0:26:16 Lydia: 10 Yeah.

0:26:19 Thomas: Now, before we read the footnote, why don't you just read the text exchange?

0:26:21 Lydia: Justin Baldoni: I'm not going to tell you that you were amazing because you tease me for being so sentimental, but you were

0:26:40 Thomas: And now footnote 10 says,

0:26:42 Lydia: Amazing today. Blake Lively responds: Thank you, I do appreciate it. I'm just a ball buster, but it means a lot to me. I care a great deal and always want to deliver. You were terrific. I'm proud of everything we did today, but really every day, Justin. Love reacted to that and said thank you. Lively's use of the word ball buster would certainly have made it on her 17-point list had it been Baldoni who said it. Yeah.

0:26:44 Thomas: No. So fucking stupid. Take it away from all this. Pretend this is a normal workplace and a woman is alleging like, hey, this guy's using some inappropriate language toward me. I guess we'd have to be more specific. But like if she alleges that he said, take your jacket off, it's sexy kind of thing. And then he countered with, well, one time you said you're a ball buster. No one in their right fucking mind. Imagine being the HR person who heard that excuse that the man gave. Would you be like, there's no way that's, like, you know, that's a term everyone uses, like ballbuster, that's just, that's not inappropriate. Sure, I maybe I wouldn't say it around the kid, I don't even know. Like it's nothing like ballbusters very commonplace phrase and is not inappropriate language, and does no, in no way, just. And I think it's so belittling of her claims because no, it wouldn't have made it on her 17-point list, because the things you said were actually serious and this is not.

0:26:52 Lydia: Yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Right, right. Yeah exactly.

0:27:42 Thomas: It's just stupid. Like imagine putting that footnote. Lively's use of the word ball buster would certainly have made it on her 16 point list had it been Baldoni who said it. I mean, if your allegation is that if you had used ball bbuster, then she would have put it in her complaint. Well, I don't know. On May 3rd, Justin said, I also like asshole Blake. Yeah, and Blake didn't complain about that because that's fine. There's no, you can't just say, oh, and I bet you would have totally complained about this, and then there are those things and she didn't complain, so you're just lying. I bet she'd also complain if I touched her on her shoulder, you know, it's like, shut the fuck up, dude. It's so typical shitty man way to respond to sexual harassment.

0:27:54 Lydia: Yeah yeah. She's calling herself a ball buster, so you would have to say that the word itself is disrespectful, like the word unattached to anybody else. Yeah, it's just, it's crazy.

0:28:22 Thomas: Yeah, it's nothing. Yeah, because it has ball in it. All Right, so that's fucking stupid. Let's go to paragraph 58

0:28:32 Lydia: Oh boy okay. Lively's intimate comfort with Baldoni continued as filming progressed. In June of 2023 after the alleged harassment and quote, uncomfortable situations allegedly occurred. And that was in italics. She even invited Baldoni to her trailer to rehearse while pumping breast milk. And we've broken this down so many times.

0:28:50 Thomas: Once again, yeah. We've got, so I'm just pumping in my trailer if you want to work out our lines doesn't mean that, come watch me pump, it just means that's what she's currently doing. And he says, I mean, they don't put this in this, but he says, I'm eating, she says, take your time pumping does not take that

0:29:01 Lydia: I'll meet you in hair and makeup. Yeah. And then he later says,

0:29:08 Thomas: Fucking long. Yeah, he doesn't go in

0:29:09 Lydia: I'm in hair and makeup when you can come over.

0:29:12 Thomas: So in no way does this at all demonstrate what he's saying. So

0:29:15 Lydia: It is just so patently false from any sense of reality that if you were Baldoni, like, and being comfortable with having that in the complaint, it's so incredibly misleading, but in a way that is offensive. I can understand, like, white lies here and there, I guess, like within your own complaint because you're trying to put your best case forward, but that for me, that specific thing for me is like so beyond It just, like, really bothers me.

0:29:34 Thomas: Frustrating. Yeah. 59

0:29:49 Ad: [Ad break 2 — ad music]

0:29:49 Thomas: Kind of goes further with

0:29:52 Lydia: Lively was so close and comfortable with Baldoni that she freely breastfed in front of him during meetings, including when her husband was present. Okay, what does that have to do with anything?

0:29:52 Thomas: This, okay? Do we maybe, I mean, does that mean that That she had one of those things where the baby's covered and, you know, like there's those little drape thingies that you put over yourself. Like, we don't know.

0:30:03 Lydia: What does that mean? Also, yeah, I mean, like, women are comfortable and not comfortable on different days of the week, like it just, you know. Yeah.

0:30:14 Thomas: Yeah, it's interesting because this is apropos of nothing. We haven't gotten.

0:30:18 Lydia: Oftentimes Lively's baby nurse would come in mid-meeting with Lively's hungry baby, and Lively would breastfeed openly and without hesitation. On every occasion Baldoni averted his eyes from Lively's chest, either maintaining eye contact or looking away. Lively also took photos of him holding and soothing her crying baby

0:30:29 Thomas: All right. That's nothing. Yeah, doesn't. If you didn't like me looking at your boobs, then why did you take a picture of me holding your baby? So stupid.

0:30:35 Lydia: In her penthouse. That has nothing to do with anything. It doesn't even have anything to do with what you're talking about for breastfeeding.

0:30:46 Lydia: Seriously, like the way that sentence started, Lively also took photos of him. I was like, breastfeeding her baby? Like, I didn't know.

0:30:51 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Took photos of him helping the baby breastfeed on her, yeah, squeezing her boob to help, like that doesn't, yeah, is it so stupid, it doesn't make any sense.

0:30:56 Lydia: Like, supporting the baby's head while it breastfed? I did not know where that sentence was going. They laughed deliriously during late night writing sessions. All of these events took place after

0:31:06 Thomas: Oh That's why it's okay if you look at her boobs. That's fine. Okay.

0:31:12 Lydia: The alleged sexual harassment. Lively's accusations seemed to come out of the blue. She even knew his tea order. When we get a text about his tea order.

0:31:21 Thomas: It just says, hot matchaa.

0:31:23 Lydia: In route to you, can I get you anything?

0:31:25 Thomas: So that's him, and then she says, no good, thank you though. I'm getting you a hot match How? How? First off, it's not even demonstrated that that's, like, his tea or, like, whatever. I'm grabbing you

0:31:29 Lydia: Yeah. He's like so unable to stand up to Blake. He's, like, yep, that's my favorite. That's my favourite tea order, how'd you know?

0:31:37 Thomas: One, yeah, but also, even if it is, wow, it's really hard to memorize hot matcha after, like, one time. You would know that one single time where you're like going to Starbucks, "What do you want?" Or whatever, you know, like, "Cool, I love that." When you say tea order, like, it's like, okay, it's this, this, I want two things of pumps of this one, one thing of this one. Yeah, it's stupid.

0:31:47 Lydia: Yeah, yeah.

0:31:57 Lydia: Exactly, I was just going to say, it's not Eli Bosnick's Starbucks order. This is very simple.

0:32:00 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is just one tea, please. She even had his tea order memorized. Hi, hot tea. Stupid.

0:32:05 Lydia: And I would like it hot instead of cold.

0:32:13 Lydia: We get more into the language here, so I think this is important because we're going to be talking about the word sexy quite a bit, okay? Paragraph 61 says, Lively herself set the tone for personal discussions on set, including what language was acceptable. For example, on one occasion while filming a restaurant scene, Livedy sat on the floor in painfully expensive shoes while discussing with a group of male cast and crew how, quote, sexy her shoes were and that they have the evidence for it in film footage.

0:32:31 Thomas: Painfully expensive shoes. Why are you saying painfully expensive? Okay, whatever. So it's just well poisoning. All right. In her penthouse from her painfully. Yeah, whatever when talking about shoes.

0:32:42 Lydia: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. Lively had no issue using the word sexy herself, but apparently took note both times Baldoni said the word in her presence. Just said it. It wasn't that he was calling her sexy. It was just he happened to say it.

0:33:00 Thomas: All right, and then we I think we can skip through a lot of this because good news, everybody. We're on page fucking 39 of 224 and I think it's gonna repeat everything anyway, so I'm trying to figure out how much to get into everything, but if we repeat it, we should be able to at least skip it. Famous last words. So talks about her rewriting everything and they hate it now. We get E during labor strikes, Lively moves to seize absolute power. Phase three of my plan of the fucking Emperor Palpatine plan.

0:33:07 Lydia: Oh, my God.

0:33:24 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, I was picturing Genie from Aladdin.

0:33:29 Thomas: We're trying to skip through, but I do want to see how does he justify the move to seize absolute power. Is it going to just be, it's probably just going to be Like the meeting, right, in the document, I'm guessing, because they paused for the strikes, right? So they're not filming, that's

0:33:35 Lydia: Well, one thing is where she asserted her power was that the production was notified that the WGA had agreed not to picket their set, that they considered them an independent film, which would allow production to continue. But Lively was already gone and refused to return to the production immediately. Wayfarer reworked the shooting schedule at great expense to film the scenes with the younger versions of the characters instead of footage requiring Lively.

0:34:02 Thomas: Fucking nothing, that's funny, because that's kind of an own goal, because, that would be evidence that, like, even though she could have come back to film, she was fucking pissed, and didn't want to come back, like her story is, she just left, because she didn't wanna be there anymore, after the sexual harassment, but they're trying to be like, and, she left, confusingly, what, that kind of proves her point, so, it talks about, he's editing during the strike, okay, so there's no proof of that, I mean, I know it's a small deal, but nothing demonstrates. I'm looking at the timeline there's nothing

0:34:12 Lydia: Yeah, she left and called her lawyer. Yeah, yeah.

0:34:24 Lydia: Lively expressed excitement over returning to shoot in the fall in New York, making no mention of any discomfort or harassment that would be brought up only later, after months of being apart, on the day the strikes ended.

0:34:40 Lydia: Well, I think it is a big deal because they're really trying to take apart this like thing where she was so uncomfortable that she would not return unless she had this document signed. And they're like, "She never indicated that she was uncomfortable." Like, she even expressed how excited she was to come back. And that's why we were blindsided by this. I mean, I'm scrolling all the way through this stuff and, like, we see things about the dailies, right? Messages from her regarding access to the dailies. We see a message from Baldoni saying happy birthday and giving her an update about the edit. And she thanks him for the matcha machine, which was the birthday present.

0:35:15 Lydia: His favorite. Something to remember him by. And then I'm looking through. We get to October.

0:35:14 Thomas: His favorite tea order Yeah. October—when did filming come oh that's right it went all the way

0:35:23 Lydia: Yeah. Their meeting was in November. Yeah.

0:35:25 Thomas: Oh shit. Yeah, they stopped filming for a long-ass time.

0:35:29 Lydia: So then it looks like there's text messages between Lively's agent, Lively manager and Jamie Heath. And I don't see anything about her being excited to come back to work expressed by the agent or the manager. And then Heath reaches out sharing her shooting schedule. And I don't see a response from her agent at all there. And then the next thing I see is reaching out to her lawyer.

0:35:43 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:35:54 Lydia: As you might know, we're back in Jersey. Yeah. Prepping for the last two weeks. Yeah, I would love to have a chat with you about moving

0:35:55 Thomas: To get aligned. That's weird. Why would they need to get aligned?

0:36:00 Lydia: Forward and get aligned the best we can at this stage. Interesting. Interesting. Then they get the email from the lawyer of the 17-point list saying she's not coming back until this is signed. So I see zero evidence that she was excited to come

0:36:07 Thomas: Yeah, and so once No, nothing. I mean, this could literally be, he justified it by, yeah, I think last time she said goodbye she's like, "Oh yeah, can't wait to film again." Yeah, it's like, okay, okay. There's no proof for it though. And given the fact that she had her lawyers help her come up with

0:36:20 Lydia: Back. "Can't wait to get back here." Yeah. Nope.

0:36:27 Thomas: A massive list of things you shouldn't do anymore, I'm going to go ahead and say that she wasn't excited to come back. Okay. Well, all that aside, we should, because in the timeline, we do get Baldoni complaining, I think, about this.

0:36:32 Lydia: Yeah. Oh boy. So let's, I guess, we've got to talk about the dailies now. Yeah, and talking to the editors.

0:36:43 Thomas: So yeah, she requests to see the day. Why don't you read how she asked for that?

0:36:47 Lydia: "Hey, would you mind giving me access to dailies, and I'm curious which takes you liked of the scenes you showed blank. My manager blank flew out to visit set and and leaves tomorrow a.m. He heard all about it from blank, and I'd love to show him. I appreciate you may be too slammed right now to make this happen, but maybe someone else can facilitate. Thanks so much."

0:37:04 Thomas: All right. Yeah.

0:37:05 Lydia: So then he screenshots this.

0:37:07 Thomas: And producer, are you still thinking this would be that one person? Oh, it does say A. Yeah, Yeah. Oh, so we get in the text, it says, yeah, the name is redacted with producer over it. And one time they remembered to block out, you know, the blank contact bubble in

0:37:10 Lydia: Yeah, it says, A, they forgot to redact it on the second one. Yeah.

0:37:22 Thomas: A phone where it like just puts like the initials. They did that one time and then didn't on the entire rest of the thing.

0:37:23 Lydia: An initial. All right.

0:37:28 Thomas: Well done.

0:37:29 Lydia: Now I'm going to say it's 100 %

0:37:30 Thomas: Definitely. It starts with an A. Yeah.

0:37:30 Lydia: Confidence.

0:37:32 Thomas: Justin forwards that. And by the way, Justin just says thoughts. It's not like Justin says, fucking God damn it. You know, like he's just like, thoughts? Producer says, I'd say no, but check her contract first, LOL. Yeah.

0:37:35 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. That's a smart producer thing to say. This is someone who is in the business.

0:37:50 Thomas: And then Jamie says, I was waiting for probably Alex to respond first. It's an absolute no for me as well, respectfully. Not sure the best way to respond being how delicate it is. I think you can either not respond until tomorrow and then it's cut off. Cool. Or so we don't get any of that. And then producer says, okay, copy makes sense. So what happened?

0:38:01 Lydia: And then we don't know so their plan on how to respond is being excluded here

0:38:11 Thomas: So yeah, we skip a lot of what seems like pretty important information for your claims. Or something, who knows?

0:38:15 Lydia: I feel like they were shit talking her. Yeah, saying some

0:38:19 Thomas: Or well, keep in mind, or they might have been not really shit talking that much, because like if their story is that this was horrible and she's demanding control, they might have been like, yeah, whatever, or they might have been like, yeah, given the fact that I fucking Sexually Harassed her, you know? But I guess if this has producer Alex, then who knows? Whatever. One way or the other, we don't have that. We skip a lot, and then we get Alex again, saying, 'Okay, copy,' makes sense. So we skip not only Alex's statement, but whatever the response is, at least. And then—and who knows?

0:38:21 Lydia: Stuff maybe them maybe workshopping how they're going to respond.

0:38:48 Thomas: Yeah, who knows how much we skipped because it's so blurry. We could almost guess by the timeline, except we can't tell the fucking timestamps. Blurry ass bullshit. And then, okay, so Baldoni says, basically send her a playlist of what I showed her agent.

0:38:50 Lydia: Yeah. So

0:39:03 Thomas: Okay. And then if or when she responds and says, can you send me everything? That's what I'll say I'm not comfortable with as I haven't even seen everything.

0:39:02 Lydia: That's the plan Right.

0:39:12 Thomas: Everything redacted believes that she will then start to edit the movie and tell me which takes to use if she has access to everything.

0:39:20 Lydia: And producer says, "Yes, I agree with that." And then Justin says, "Also, this is exactly how the writing process started. She asked if it was okay if she could take a pass at some dialogue tweaks on the rooftop scene."

0:39:26 Thomas: And Then I said, "Yes, fuck yes, awesome, so great." And for some reason she kept doing it. But anyway, sorry—that's all he says.

0:39:36 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, and then sometime later, I guess after he spoke with Blake, he says, just talk to Blake. She's in very good spirits and seems happy about this very nice conversation.

0:39:41 Thomas: Okay. Oh wow

0:39:59 Lydia: Yeah?

0:39:59 Thomas: It's almost like maybe you guys had a really negative view of her and somebody—which I wonder if that's Steve or something. I don't know who the other person, blank, believes that he will then start to audit the whole movie. I feel like that's them being pretty fucking paranoid, you know? If they're like, he believes she's going to use this to steal. And then she, he actually talks to Blake. She's like, "Oh no, that's great."

0:40:05 Lydia: Yeah. Sounds good. Thanks so much.

0:40:06 Thomas: Oh, okay. Weird.

0:40:08 Lydia: So we talked about the conversation regarding the dailies from the exhibit point of view. There's just one little piece here. If we go back to the narrative, I really want to call out. So after After they share that initial text where she's asking about access to the dailies, there's a footnote defining dailIES basically. And it says dailIEs refers to raw footage of what was filmed that day, including the many, quote, takes. This is not shared with cast. This idea that she's just, you know, random named character in this wasn't heavily involved in the writing, heavily involved in wardrobe decisions, maybe in a way that they all hated. I don't freaking know. But to just call her cast and say that her role was just cast is just so dismissive.

0:40:48 Thomas: Yeah. And again, I fully grant that maybe she's trying to take too much control. If I were involved, maybe I could have an opinion, but since I wasn't involved, all I can say is either. Yeah, she was taking too much control for bad reasons, maybe, but also Justin seemed to encourage it and be incapable of standing up for himself at all as a director, or maybe he kind of sucks. And she was really trying to save a project.

Like imagine again, maybe I have sympathy for this because I am, it sounds like I'm a Blake, to be honest with you. It sounds like, I'm like, if I get involved in a project, I am going to have a lot of thoughts, you know? Cause I don't want, especially something that, especially forget, get involved. Like if I was the fucking background actor, I wouldn't give a shit, like whatever, you Know, I mean, maybe, I'd have some thoughts on my scenes, but like, whatever.

If I'm the lead, like star of this movie, that is my name. And if I at all, as a star pretend I was, if I had all thought, who is this fucking incompetent guy who doesn't have any experience doing it? And he's doing a bad job. Yeah. I would be like, God, I need to, I don't want to be in a bad movie. Like what? Like imagine how it would feel to Blake. Imagine the threat Blake might feel. This is just me speculating.

I'm saying these are the possibilities and I don'T know. Cause I wasn't there and neither were any of us. So it's like, I'm not going to just assume the worst about Blake.

And I'm not, you know, I'm not necessarily assuming the worst about Baldoni when it comes to this. It's hard to separate because it seems like he's lying about what he said all the times. I don't know, but imagine how Blake, the threat she would feel to her livelihood if she's doing this project. She's signed on to this project that's gonna be a huge, like, it's her name, like, it's her at stake. Imagine if this movie sucked ass. Like, imagine if it comes out and it's a raspberry, like, it's just

0:41:21 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah,

0:42:26 Thomas: Awful. That's so fucking bad for her. Like, that's, that's existential for her. So if she thought at all that Baldoni was in over his head and didn't know what, what the fuck he was doing. Yeah, maybe she's really trying to, like, get this going the right way so she doesn't lose her career over it.

0:42:39 Lydia: It's more than that, too, because remember, she just gave birth to a baby. So she is sacrificing a lot of like early time with her family as they are getting closer and closer to Ryan needing to leave and be based out of the UK while he's filming Deadpool versus Wolverine or whatever. Deadpool and Wolverine. Deadpool.

0:42:56 Thomas: Don't talk like you didn't love that movie.

0:42:59 Lydia: And I know I do. I do I can't remember. Is it Deadpool versus. That's what I was saying. Whatever. Because I don't remember the titling.

0:43:03 Thomas: Actually, God, I don't remember. Yeah, Deadpool. Don't remember, you're right. I retract my comment.

0:43:07 Lydia: Deadpool And Wolverine because they're not fighting each other. Anyway.

0:43:11 Thomas: Apologies.

0:43:12 Lydia: Yeah I love that movie. It was fun.

0:43:12 Thomas: The jury will disregard Thomas's comment, right?

0:43:15 Lydia: But she has, like, explicitly said before that she doesn't sign on to do every project she She's beyond that point in her career. She wants to feel like a collaborator. She wants to feel like she can express exactly, and what she is sacrificing to do this project is a lot, it's a

0:43:24 Thomas: She made that clear going into it. Yeah, it is.

0:43:32 Lydia: Lot. Think about the family time that you have to choose to give up to do a project. You want it to feel like that project is freaking worth it, and if it comes out and it sucks, it's not just her career, the reputation, the impact there. It's like, what did I do all that for? I missed out on the early months of my new baby's life. I lost time with my family. For what? And I think that's a reasonable expectation to have when you're making decisions like that as a decently prominent actress.

0:44:01 Thomas: Yeah. And so again, I just look at this as a relationship and a thing that's happening that is probably very par for the course in Hollywood, and they got to manage it. And also I think, I think that their reactions are kind of telling in that Justin doesn't really seem that concerned about this. Like he kind of does, but he's like thoughts and you know, and yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah.

0:44:15 Lydia: Yeah, the only thing is this is how the writing thing started. That's the most most indicative thing we get.

0:44:23 Thomas: That's a good point.

0:44:24 Lydia: So then we get back to the narrative. About a month has passed since she requested access to the dailies and we get another text from her. "Hey, I hope you and your family are well. I watched the selects you sent. So great." So this is the playlist that he had mentioned, I think. "I was so happy and energized. Such solid work from everyone on and off camera was really cool to see. We were working so quickly. There was never time to look back. So it was nice to revisit from an audience's perspective. Please let me know who to reach out to to get access to the full gallery of dailies. I'm so looking forward to seeing all we have in the can. So, she's not happy and of course any scenes you cut together I'd love to

0:44:56 Thomas: They did say that they were just going to kind of stonewall if she asked for this. This is very weird. Sorry. This ist so stupid to go through. The complaint has the stuff we were saying was missing, but the timeline, which is like the master document of everything does not. So like, what the fuck? I think they had two different people or teams of people working on each of these things. I really do. Because like, there's so many times that one undercuts the other. Yeah. Really weird. Okay.

0:45:07 Lydia: See. It's so sloppy. Yeah, yeah.

0:45:21 Lydia: Yeah, you've explicitly said on multiple occasions, why did they include that? That hurts their case. Yeah. I

0:45:29 Thomas: So the part we were missing where after producer asked, what do we do essentially was,

0:45:33 Lydia: Think you can either not respond until tomorrow, or say you need to talk to the team, or just say no, you're not comfortable with it.

0:45:34 Thomas: Yeah, boy, those are, you know, not for nothing. Yeah, well, yeah. It's like, here's some very easy, reasonable ways to to fucking toughen up and stick up for yourself. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised. And I think you said this before, and I think You're absolutely right that the producer is kind of fed up with him being a fucking chicken. Just maybe she's like, I don't want to use Lady Macbeth because that's like usually the wrong end of it. But it's like the, hey, can you fucking stand up to her? Here, say, don't respond or say you need to talk to the team or just say, no, you're not comfortable with it.

0:45:41 Lydia: Listen to women. Yeah.

0:45:56 Lydia: She's like, you're a, a grown man. Why am I having to tell you?

0:46:13 Lydia: Yeah. I mean, like if I were this producer, if I were Alex Sachs in this moment, I'd be like, why am I your mom right now? You are an adult. Figure it out.

0:46:20 Thomas: And look at this.

0:46:21 Lydia: Yeah. So then Jamie responds, maybe we can let this be a Sony decision, and you can respond with that for now. Justin Baldoni says, "Thank you. Spoke to blank too. I think I'm just going to say yes and send her a playlist of a bunch of good takes from different scenes that last for three or four days. Blank said no. LOL." And then Alex Sachς responds, "We all said no, and you're gonna send it's

0:46:24 Thomas: Yeah.

0:46:43 Thomas: So here is Justin in his own document. Other people seem to have a problem with Blake and Justin doesn't really, you know, like much, and

0:46:57 Lydia: A girl, we know that.

0:46:58 Thomas: Justin is saying this person who he's speaking to, who, who knows who that is, if it's, oh, oh, whoever.

0:46:58 Lydia: It later says she, in the next message, she

0:47:01 Thomas: Baldoni's talking to is a she, so I was just guessing, like Steve earlier, it's definitely not, I guess, interesting, who knows, but anyway, that same person it seems like who said she's gonna take over the editing said no for the point where Where producer Alex is like, we all said no and you're going to send like, I can't believe this. Like, will you stand up? And then he says, no, she liked the idea of a playlist. No to access to all the dailies.

0:47:24 Lydia: Yeah, so he's still finding a way to like appease Blake. Like, they're all basically saying you have permission to say no, you have commission to say you're not comfortable with it. Yeah. And he's like, well, I'm still gonna say yes, but, but I'm just gonna give her like this little bit when he explicitly said before, hey, this is how the writing situation started. She, she got a little bit and she kept asking and I kept giving. So you're setting yourself up again, Justin.

0:47:26 Thomas: Okay. Yeah. Here's all these ways. Yeah.

0:47:49 Thomas: Yeah, I guess.

0:47:50 Lydia: You're doing it again. This is on you. I don't really know what to tell you, man.

0:47:53 Thomas: I'm getting vibes that this is one of those people that just fucking lies all the time. You know, those people socially, I've had this friend before where they'll complain to you about a lot of stuff, stuff, especially about other people. They'll be like, oh, this person asked me to go them to something. I don't want to go. And they suck and all these things. And then I'll be, like, well, okay, don't go. Or just say, like. Oh, I'm busy. Or, just anything. And, then, they'll be. Like, ah, maybe. Yeah, I'll. And. Then, like you know. Five seconds later. Oh. They asked me. To go. And. So, I. Am going with them. And you're. Like. What? Why? Why are you going with. Them? And. The reason I bring it up is. I also don't know. Then. Like when Justin said. This is how the the writing started. I don't even know how much of a problem he has with that versus they have with it. You know, like maybe he's saying, you know what I mean?

0:48:14 Lydia: Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:48:38 Lydia: I think so too.

0:48:38 Thomas: Like he might just be reflecting what they've said.

0:48:40 Lydia: Yeah. I think 100 % he has a pathological need for everybody to like him. And I can relate to that to a decent degree. You still have to have hard conversations and things like that. But like what I see in these text messages and stuff, it's he needs, when he's having a conversation with Alex and Jamie, he needs them to like him. Like, he can't be a bad guy in that relationship. But then simultaneously, he doesn't want to be thought of to potentially be a bad guy in the relationship with Blake. He still desperately wants Blake to like him too. So it's like finding ways to people please everybody. And you find very quickly that it's not possible. Possible, but he's desperately clinging to try and figure out how to make that possible, like, subconsciously. Yeah.

0:48:44 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

0:49:23 Thomas: And I think it also explains why he's always going to think he's the good guy in the right, because I think in his mind, he's like, well, I always was just trying to kind of make everybody happy here. But like, if you're that much of a fucking noodle, it causes problems. Like, it really causes problems to not stick up for yourself or not be consistent or have a backbone at least somewhat. Like, you don't have to be an asshole all the time, but like, especially if you're gonna direct a fucking movie, a major movie, you have to have some amount of a backbone, and that explains why this producer's just like, fucking Jesus Christ, you know, I think you nailed it with, like, she's more upset about him than her.

0:49:29 Lydia: Yep. Yep. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I really think that's It, mm-hmm, mm-huh.

0:50:00 Thomas: I mean, she, granted, she doesn't want, like, to take over, sure, but like, yeah, yeah.

0:50:04 Lydia: But it's like, you know, par for the course. It's like, celebrity is gonna celebrity, and it's the director's job to shut it down, so shut it done.

0:50:10 Thomas: Yeah.

0:50:17 Ad: [Ad break 3 — ad music]

0:50:17 Thomas: And that's where where we're going to leave it today. Very interesting stuff. I'm excited. Next episode, we're gonna see what happens when Baldoni tries to put his foot down.

0:50:27 Lydia: Yeah, will he actually put his foot down, and what does that look like? And, you know, I think for me, one of the biggest lessons from this episode is: listen to Alex Sachs. I think she, yeah, I just, I went off about it already, could continue to go off about It.

0:50:28 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. Everyone listen to Alex X. Yeah.

0:50:42 Lydia: But I think that was one of my biggest lessons learned from this section of the complaint.

0:50:45 Thomas: Imagine what it must be like being the competent woman dealing with people who for some reason own the company, but don't have any actual talent. Yeah yeah.

0:50:54 Lydia: Or Backbone. Like, God, just unbelievable. Yeah.

0:50:58 Thomas: However, Jamie Heath got there. I don't think it was because of his extraordinary film producing abilities. And however, I think that Baldoni is there for one, because of prior success and money and being raised, I Think pretty rich. I think he, if nothing else, I thinks he was showing a good sense of what projects to pick. And I will give him that because he picked good projects. I mean, they, yep, exactly. I will Give him credit for that. That makes you a good producer probably.

0:51:04 Lydia: Mm hmm. Yes. Stories that deserve to be told. Yeah, mm hmm. Yeah

0:51:28 Thomas: Or, or, uh, so I forget what else you would be within the film industry. I'm not that that into it. It doesn't make you a good director and leader. Knowing a good story to pick is an asset in a film production studio, obviously. Is that enough for you to be the lead actor and director and editor and writer of a film? I don't think so. And so I can imagine, I feel like Alex is just like, oh my God, what is this? What are we doing here?

0:51:34 Lydia: Mm hmm, absolutely. Yeah yep.

0:51:54 Thomas: Why are these fools in charge?

0:51:57 Lydia: Yeah, I mean, like, you have, have a car that's not staying in their lane, they're weaving across traffic and they look insane, right? Like, that's what we're dealing with here. Yeah.

0:52:04 Thomas: Yeah, and Alex Sachs is in the back being like, are you sure? Can I drive?

0:52:09 Lydia: Could I drive?

0:52:09 Thomas: And they're like, no, we're doing fine. We're totally fine. So we have that to look forward to next episode. Thanks so much for listening. We'll see you then, Gavalinos. Gavel, gavel, gavle heads.

0:52:19 Lydia: Please, Javelinos. Gavel heads. Why did you emphasize the "heads"?

0:52:24 Thomas: Because I was expecting you to do the whoop whoop, I think.

0:52:26 Lydia: Oh, whoop whoop.

0:52:27 Thomas: Yeah, see if it's in the edit, it will be seamless.

0:52:30 Lydia: I think you should just leave it unedited. I think that's better. Just--

0:52:33 Thomas: Obviously, I will be leaving it unedited. You didn't need to comment on that. I was stepping through the fourth wall. Well, you went through the fifth wall.

0:52:40 Lydia: Put it through the bloops.

0:52:41 Thomas: We actually, you went into the four dimensional space time and stepped through fifth and sixth walls that didn't need to be stepped.

0:52:44 Lydia: Yeah, a la Kool-Aid Man man. Yeah, I Kool-Aid manned my way through a bunch of walls just now. Fifth and sixth walls. Oh yeah.

0:52:58 Thomas: Whoop, whoop. Yeah, I was trying to find it. I think that's it. Whoop.

0:53:24 Thomas: Whoop could it be because you said I love so fucking much when you share your open and unguarded thoughts all the time. It's my favorite fucking thing ever.