SIO488: She Filmed Her Harassment and It Went Viral on TikTok

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:12 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Serious Inquiries Only. This is episode 488. I'm your host Thomas Smith and with me today is guest number one. I don't know, Lydia, how are you doing?

0:00:22 Lydia: Sneaking in. Good. How are you?

0:00:24 Thomas: No, I let you in. You didn't need to sneak. I thought it was weird that you crawled on the floor to get, that you army crawled.

0:00:26 Lydia: That's true. You're like, the door is open.

0:00:31 Thomas: Yeah, I was like, you can just be on the podcast. You're like, shh. We've got a wow wow it's a fun one for us this was a treat for us um it's also might be a bit of a triggering episode in in some ways for sure um don't why don's you introduce it because our friend our dear friend this was so interesting this probably happened to some people just by the uh you know the power of the internet and the Kevin rules or whatever, but have you ever known somebody and then just, they went totally viral on something? It's kind of interesting. It's the first time it's happened to us to this degree, I think. I can't think of anything else.

0:01:03 Lydia: I yeah, to this degree. The numbers are shocking, honestly. So our friend Holly was recently harassed in a public space. And I want to preempt her story too much, but having been fed up by that, she decided to film it and was angry and posted it. And it blew up yeah

0:01:30 Thomas: It's possible many of you have saw it. It'S been a few months now or a month and a half now, but yeah, it was weird to see. And we really wanted to talk to her about it um I I think there's so many reasons why and please one like I you know something this show has always cared about I've always cared about any sort of me too stories and and know I think that there was a brief moment where me too happened and then there's a moment afterwards where everyone's like how's it gone too far and now I think everyone's just like fuck off like that's general yeah I think our society like we don't care anymore, like because Trump or something. I don't know. We feel like they don't have to care about anything anymore. It's really depressing. And same time, I think there's definitely, you and on the subgroup of people where things have gotten better and things are people are more aware. And it's like it's just a weird segmented society thing now where it's I think people are aware in a lot of spaces, but then broadly speaking, it does feel like there's also this permission now to be worse than ever and to care less than ever about women,

0:01:37 Lydia: Definitely almost worse than it used to be yeah yeah yeah

0:02:27 Thomas: About, you know, non -white people, about non -cis people, just all that stuff. And so I'm always interested in that, but it's also really interesting to, we want to talk to her about the experience of not only obviously the harassment she's been getting, but the experience of putting it online and then that second order experience you know where it's like how did that go and that there's definitely positives there's definitely negatives and it's just a really it's a really interesting thing and we love our friend and she's so fun to talk to and honestly I was noticing in the edit you may hear me just like it sounds like I just come back in real quick and the reason is because because we're friends we trail off for a while and I'm like okay let's get back to it and then I say something and then And then we had to edit that. And so it may sound like I'm like cutting in, but I'm not. It's just the edit because we we we're friends and we got off track a lot. So it's like, OK, let's come back down to it, you know. So anyway, this was just so much fun. We left Holly to death and it was it was

0:03:25 Thomas: Really fun. Oh, and so much so also that we've got a special patron extra and folks I think you're gonna want to hear this it's really I

0:03:19 Lydia: It super fun it was you doubted me you doubt outed me

0:03:35 Thomas: Didn't know what you were had in mind but yeah I mean yeah it's lydia also it was after this right that you guys went yeah yeah um had And further thoughts on gender politics and all that stuff inspired by going to Thunder Down Under in Las Vegas.

0:03:45 Lydia: Her harassment yes mm -hmm thunder

0:03:57 Thomas: Thunder from Down Under. Okay. Yeah. No, I'm not part of the club, so I don't know.

0:03:55 Lydia: From down under yes yeah a male exotic dance show yes

0:04:04 Thomas: And we talked about it, the three of us, because Holly also went. Then they, too, did a trip. And it was really fun because we talked About some, I don' t know, sexuality and gender and different things. And it turned out to be really fun as a bonus segment. So patrons are getting that extra long episode, uh, patreon.com/seriouspod. If you want to listen, you can do that right now so that it just goes into it for you or else when you get to the end, you'll have to, you know, go, go redownload it. So, you know, do that now, but take a break, which you can also completely bypass, get around. No more, no, no ads whatsoever. If you go to patreon.com/seriouspod, that's another reason to go get the full episode,

0:04:07 Lydia: Holly and I did that together yeah so many

0:04:40 Thomas: Lose the ads. And thanks so much to those of you who make the show happen. We've got several serious inquiries on these planned to release at the end of the month in our normal chunk system. And I think you'll like them. Looking forward to releasing them. So, all right, we'll talk about that. We'll take our break and then we'll get on with Holly.

0:04:40 Lydia: Reasons yeah

0:05:09 Thomas: Holly, how's, has it been going? How are things? How you doing?

0:05:16 Holly: Know. It's crazy. I've never had a viral video before and like being in the center of a discussion.

0:05:23 Thomas: What was the viral video? It was like a cool dance you did or something fun. Yeah. A skit you do where you're both sides of it, you know?

0:05:27 Lydia: Super trendy yeah

0:05:30 Holly: Wish. And everybody's complimenting my talent. Um

0:05:35 Thomas: What's happened to you? Us Take through the past. How long has this been now? A couple of weeks or something?

0:05:41 Holly: Was on july 5th so

0:05:42 Thomas: Gosh. It's over a month ago. Holy shit.

0:05:44 Holly: I um on July 5th I was told by my therapist to go outside more. I have

0:05:53 Thomas: Sorry that's both probably really good but also so funny I don't know why it's just like it's probably to every podcast listener very relatable and their therapist should also probably prescribe that yeah

0:06:00 Holly: A vitamin D deficiency and I was like, okay, yeah, I'm going to go outside more, I have to read something, so I'm gonna go for a picnic with my friend and go to the park around the corner from her house and while I'm at this park she and stay because I wanted to finish reading my book and not even like five minutes after she leaves this man approaches me while I am like breathing and like taking in the sun and like okay I am just like trying to like practice being present and like having a mental health day and this man approaches me and he goes hey are you Armenian and answer because I was like I know this person isn't talking to me like I'm clearly minding my own business and he was like hey excuse me are you Romanian and I look at him and I say no he Was like what are you and was Like I don't need to tell you that that like I don't know who you are

0:07:02 Thomas: Who the fuck are you

0:07:03 Lydia: Are you conducting a census? Like what? What's happening right now?

0:07:07 Holly: Also like in la with all the the going on with ice and stuff I'm sorry can I say shit okay good

0:07:13 Thomas: Please I was hoping you'd say more more more yeah

0:07:16 Holly: Get ready um with all this shit going on with ICE and like I'm like I dont need to tell anybody who I dont know my ethnicity that's just so like out of touch whatever and I'm just hoping he'll be like okay and like leave me alone but he starts um me about being disrespectful and

0:07:27 Thomas: So did you tell him like you're not gonna tell him

0:07:35 Holly: I was like I don't need to tell you that I don't know who you are like not interested in talking to you I think I said something like that um goes you know you're you're being really disrespectful. When somebody asks you a question, you need to be more respectful and answer them.

0:07:49 Lydia: In the world?

0:07:51 Holly: Yeah. He's like flipping out, berating me. And so I pull out my phone immediately and I start recording him. At the beginning of the video, you can hear me say, I don't care. I'm, I'm my own fucking business. Like I don'T have to talk to you. And he starts walking up to my, my blanket. I'M sitting on the floor and he's walking up And he's trying to be.

0:08:09 Thomas: I know you need to get outside more but it's called the ground I don't I don' t jeez I see what your therapist was thinking and I see this man on my screen and he keep

0:08:13 Holly: Sorry. I know. I'm sitting on the floor. Am on this weird carpet. It's like green.

0:08:23 Thomas: Clicking on him and nothing happens it's weird sorry okay

0:08:26 Lydia: Kind of itchy yeah

0:08:31 Holly: Shag carpet. Walks up to me and his his demeanor is very threatening. He's obviously trying to intimidate me and um he's looming over me and telling me I think he he's just so stupid that he couldn't come up with a comeback so everything I was saying he was echoing I'd be like you need to leave me alone you needtoleavemealone I was like yeah and I up as soon as he starts like trying to intimidate and walk know loom over me and

0:08:33 Lydia: What he's towering over you in the video

0:09:04 Thomas: So you're still on the like with your book on the on the floor yeah on the shag carpet yeah

0:09:11 Holly: And I get up right away um all of my defenses are like I'm like oh my god I'm gonna have to fight this guy yeah

0:09:19 Thomas: I can't imagine how stressful that would be I mean I would get super anxious right away. And I'm a dude. I can't even imagine as a woman having a weird random dude do that. That'd be terrifying.

0:09:22 Lydia: Like your heart rate and

0:09:28 Holly: And yeah it was and I'm just like My whole brain is saying like you're gonna have to fight him you're going to have to fight him and just telling him like go away leave me alone um somebody counted I think in the video I say leave me along like eight times and he just doesn't leave I think he genuinely is like upset that a woman is telling him what to do and he like doesn't want to listen to a woman and so finally I take out my mace and and he leaves me alone and then I'm so enraged by this whole situation that I came home and in my rage, I was like, I'm going to fucking post this on TikTok because I already have like 36 ,000 followers. I was like, yeah, blast him on TikTok. And like a day later, I had like 3 million million views.

0:09:40 Thomas: Jesus. Jesus, wow.

0:10:14 Lydia: Insane try

0:10:16 Holly: And then maybe like five later, I had 6 million.

0:10:22 Clip: I don't need to talk to you. I'm minding my own fucking business. I'm minding my own business, but you're not minding your own fucking business. You can get the fuck out of my face, dude. Get out of the way. Get out my face. Why are you recording? Leave me alone. Leave me along. Leave me long. Walk away. If you record me, I'm going to break your phone. You better not touch me, dude, I mean, you better not fucking touch me. Get away. No. Why are we being racist? Get away, you get away, dude and get away from me.

0:11:30 Thomas: It seems like from some of the things you've said, is happened before? Is this the kind of thing you've dealt with before? Was this like fed up last straw and that's why you posted it? Or was it like this hasn't happened before and you're like so shocked by it having happened yeah

0:11:45 Holly: Has happened to me so many times. It's not even funny. And like my initial reaction before was to fawn or to freeze. And I've tried every tactic in the book to try and get strange men to leave me alone you know try to be nice to them I'm really flattered but yeah yeah laugh it off tell them how flattered I am um tell them I m a lesbian tell them I m married tell them anything and like led to the same reaction every time you mean not every single time but like like sometimes they do leave me alone but I've been assaulted so many times and then I leave feeling icky like I wish I would have not been so nice I leave feelings dysregulated and like I don't know I guess like I wasn't showing up true to myself when I was uh I used to give them my phone number just

0:12:04 Lydia: And make a joke yeah yeah yeah Yeah.

0:12:41 Holly: Because I didn't want to argue and then I would have a strange man calling my phone while I was like with my boyfriend and like how would I tell him you just like a no win situation really you know and so I was at least least I'm gonna do is like get proof that it's actually this scary and like post it for everyone to see you know. And I kind of had a feeling it was gonna get a lot of traction but I had no idea it was going to get that viral.

0:13:11 Thomas: You as you you that happening I'm sure you see comments and people discussing it like what's your impression of why it caught on so much literally

0:13:20 Holly: Think a majority of people of women are scared and they have dealt with this I think it's I mean the amount of um just like in my dms saying that just him he has done that to them is crazy yes that guy yes um oh yeah I was at this one coffee shop in glendale and he he did the same thing to me. They were sending me pictures from their surveillance videos of him getting in fights.

0:13:34 Thomas: That guy oh my god what the hell what's his deal like sure

0:13:55 Lydia: But I think importantly, like, it's also not just him. This Like, is, like And, you know, Holly, like seeing your story, hearing your story and stuff, and then, like seeing the scores of women that have said something, like as a response, and again, not just specifically for him. It was like – I was remembering after the election when Nick Fuentes, you know that nazi um posted your body my choice and I think we need to be explicit about this like always been a scary time for women um I feel like it's scarier now in a lot of ways because I think I think it's it's been a lot of times where I've been in a situation we have a culture and a society that thinks that they're because there are no consequences like ultimately so what do we have shame right and I think that is something that that you you tried to do um

0:14:43 Holly: Yeah because I even went I went to the police. I mean, I knew the police weren't going to do anything. There was There's nothing, no crime was committed, you know, and, I was getting maybe like quarter of the comments are saying, why don't you go to the police, go to the police. And so I was like, all right, let me go to The Police and see what they do, you know? And of course, I mean, they told me just what I already knew. It was, oh, just, you know, try and stay away from him. Um, you know, but no crime was committed. So we can't make a police report. And um after I went to the police station I discovered somebody's um on tiktok who had been commenting in defense of him on my on my video and I clicked on the profile and it was a man who all of his videos were him following around women on the street and recording like as

0:15:14 Thomas: What how

0:15:36 Holly: They were walking yeah and he had like all these followers and all these views and it's just videos of women walking and a lot of them you can tell that they're scared and they're walking fast you

0:15:52 Thomas: That not a crime is that okay

0:15:53 Holly: There's no it's not and there's all these these like comments underneath saying haha and this isn't even illegal and in his bio, it said, exercising my constitutional right.

0:16:07 Lydia: Know what constitutional right that is but yeah

0:16:10 Thomas: That's the kind of person that's on the other side of this debate I suppose yeah

0:16:14 Holly: Mean, yeah, but it just goes to show that, like, there really isn't any consequences. The only consequence for stuff like this is public shame. I mean. Look at our president is literally a rapist. You know what I mean? And like, he's our president. Like know it's feel like he's been in office for so long that I don'T even know what it's like when he's not in office anymore but I feel like it's worse least for me like in the service industry I've noticed such a difference with like the audacity in the way that like I'm treated yeah

0:16:47 Lydia: Patrons of of establishment that you're at kind of thing yeah talk a little bit about um the public shame sort of aspect of this doesn't really apply unless he is known, right? If he is made aware, spoiler alert, he was made aware. But can you talk a little bit about how that came to be and sort of like the power of the internet, I think?

0:17:12 Holly: So um very next day after I posted it, I um, got a DM from Dinesh who, um mean, his whole entire platform is him just exposing these people and finding them. And, uh, he was in my DMS and he said, got him, found him.

0:17:22 Thomas: Who is this this is just some guy that does this oh nice so

0:17:28 Lydia: TikToker, yeah.

0:17:29 Holly: He's got a pretty big following um

0:17:32 Thomas: When this creep is filming girls butts he's like filming them and being like look at what this creep is doing it's going to be just a chain of like people filming each other walking down the street yeah

0:17:41 Lydia: God, it's a Black Mirror episode.

0:17:42 Holly: I know dude um he found him he found his name um found all his profiles and because of his large following following it. Don't even know what happened to the guy in the video. His name is Harut. I don't even know what happened to Harut. I don't know. I mean, he's obviously still angry about it. 'Cause I'm STILL GETTING HARASSED BY HIM. THEY LIKE, FOUND all his information people were like dming me his address yeah

0:18:10 Thomas: That's also weird. Yeah. How do you feel about that component of it? Because if you put it online, you know, and, and I'm sure that felt satisfying somewhat to get, you know, support and all that, but this do you think this is how he came across it or saw it? And, and so in that case, is it, is like, did this make it worse yeah yeah

0:18:29 Holly: It's hard for me because it's so complicated like I want him to get the shame that he's getting you know I want them to be scared the way that he scared me and many other women he should be scared you when people do that, it's not their first offense when people, you know, behave that way. And so like there needs to be some kind of justice. And like, happy about that. But I do think that like something is that viral, it is like put out into the world. And now all of a sudden it is the world's issue and it is not mine anymore. You I am just this like avatar for this discussion. Discussion. So is he. And that, part makes it really weird because then getting all these like racist and Islamophobic comments about him and he's not even Muslim. Like, you Armenian and Armenians are Christian. They're like one of the oldest like christian ethnicities you but I'm getting all these islamophobic like oh this is why we need to get like the muslims out of our country and of course it's a muslim of course and I'm like damn do you guys just see like a person with brown skin and an accent think there's only two like options like

0:19:43 Thomas: I think that that is it you nailed it yeah

0:19:45 Holly: Then they're oh call ice I'm like, well, now you're like inadvertently being racist towards me. You know, like, you can't see me in the video. But everybody's just assuming that I'm this like damsel white woman who's being like, aggressed by like this brown man. And now all of a sudden, I'm in that story. And that's not even the story. You you know?

0:19:51 Thomas: Well my god wow

0:20:06 Lydia: Well, especially because you were picnicking. And that is a very, speaking as a white woman, that's a very damsel -y white woman thing to do. It's maybe one of my favorite things to do, and I'm upset I wasn't invited, so there you go.

0:20:21 Holly: My God, I know, huh?

0:20:12 Thomas: Damsel -y thing to do damsel core yeah your therapist was like you don't think a damsel would do try more of those you know put your hair out of a tall window up high or something I don't know what else do damsels do you know do you have to hold up a handkerchief and go ah and faint when they happen I don't but but yeah that's crazy that's I mean so they've it's so predictable like a lot of people are putting it in their racist terms which one of my biggest pet peeves too especially see this a lot where men take the first excuse to be misogynist like they find a woman who's like really blameworthy for for something like unrelated different stuff like online someone who really they hate and and someone who deserves it and then that's their excuse to say a bunch of misogynist things because like broadly people are on their side of the you know being against whoever this woman is and in the same way it's like the minute someone uses you terms or whatever to try to like shame this guy it's like that no that's invalid don't do that that's wrong like I'm not you know and so it's like it's it must be so weird to have all these assumptions made about you and and the story and what's happening yeah

0:20:33 Lydia: Let it all down. Sleep. That's the damsel I would be.

0:20:41 Holly: Mean, I'm, -hmm. Yeah. Right.

0:20:59 Lydia: Right.

0:21:29 Holly: Was bizarre. It started like really taking a toll on me because I almost being distracted from like, what had happened to getting so pissed off and not even fully being able to process the fact that like, I just had a video go viral. And is weird. You know, that's like a lot to process here. And and then I'm like dude like now I'm part of an argument that this isn't even about like yeah

0:21:53 Lydia: Almost and like defending him in a way, too, because like that's you're defending, you -discrimination, I guess. But it has the face of the person who is harassing you. And like that'S probably like a really challenging position to be in and really unfair to you, honestly.

0:22:10 Holly: Yeah absolutely I mean even um people who were saying that he was trying to kidnap me too I was like like put in a position to have to defend him against that because I'm like you somebody's a creep it just it goes to show like how many people haven't experienced creeps at this level you

0:22:30 Thomas: Making it into like a bigger thing and you're saying no this is like an everyday thing it's not like this is like jack the ripper or some shit it's

0:22:38 Holly: Like this isn't a human trafficking thing this is a problem that we need to address that that's an everyday problem yeah

0:22:44 Thomas: It's sort of another way of minimizing it really minimizing this dynamic is is insisting it's some like, Bond villain or something.

0:22:48 Holly: Literally yeah they were like oh this is a human trafficking thing this isn't normal this isn'T just a guy getting upset over being rejected and I'm like yeah it is like the amount yes it is you a problem you under the patriarchy people are so like defensive and ego -driven in you to get super like female supremacy on anyone but like um is what people talk about when they talk about toxic masculinity you get being able to take no for an answer and getting your little fragile ego hurt when when somebody isn't interested, you

0:23:30 Lydia: Then not just even in the video, but then doubling down and continuing on in the comments of the video after he's been named, you know, at that point. He wouldn't let up in that space either, from what I understand.

0:23:45 Holly: Not at all. He He's has made about 20 fake accounts on I don't know how many he has made on TikTok because my TikTok got hacked, and I was kind of glad. I was like, you -know -what, I just, yeah.

0:23:57 Lydia: Like a blessing in disguise. Yeah.

0:23:58 Holly: At first, I was really defeated, but then I was, like, I really don't need to be looking at this anymore. It It's driving me crazy. I know on Instagram he's made about 20 fake accounts posing as different people defending him in, like, every forum that the video is posted. And he will harass people who comment and say, like – oh, God, what a creep. He'll, like slide in their DMs and, like harass them. Has been like harassing me found my name um don't know what he's planning on doing with it I think he just found it like last week posted

0:24:34 Thomas: Doyou feel like this was received overall? Lotof people are gong to be defending you and I'm sure a loto of peopleare going tobe defending him. Like what's your impression? What are the kinds of things people would say?

0:24:44 Holly: THINK OVERALL IT WAS, IT KIND OF HEALING, UM, SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE SAYING, OH MY GOD, THIS IS ACTUALLY SO SCARY BECAUSE IT WAS VALIDATING BECAUse THE AMOUNT OF TIMES THAT I 'VE BEEN THROUGH SOMETHING LIKE this. When I tried to go home and tell like my husband or I tried to tell somebody what just happened, people would look at me like, what? Ignore it next time. Or it would be minimized, you know? So like actually putting the video up and showing like how scary it is, I'm like able to really show people like what it is that I go through so that, I don't know, guess I people can believe me and why why I'm so exhausted and angry, you

0:25:25 Lydia: Do you think that they just like, visualize like something else in their mind and, and having had that experience like they just can't empathize with what you're trying to explain that you've been going through yeah please

0:25:37 Thomas: Well, I can mansplain this one if you want. I really think there's a side of dudes, for real, it actually might be something that I don't know that maybe women don't realize is there's the side of dudes that they don't show other dudes. You probably realize that. They just don't. Like don't see that side of dudes. Like it's reserved specifically for women. I'm talking broadly speaking, obviously straight dudes, you know, and it's like, it's very weird. Like pretty early in my life, I realized that, you don't realize that, you know, but, but like somewhat early in my life, I realized like when, it just helps to like have female friends and talk to women. Cause like you hear these experiences and it's, it's sure maybe as a dude, maybe the first one you hear, you can doubt maybe the second one you hear, but after you hear like, you Know, more than a handful, it'S like, Oh, maybe there's cause it, it like in, in, I guess, average random dudes kind kind of defense. It There is. It's almost like a Jekyll and Hyde situation. Dudes will be one person, I guess, to us and to other interactions. And then they're just a totally different person in some of

0:26:33 Holly: It is. -hmm. Yeah.

0:26:41 Thomas: These situations, especially they're being shut down or turned down by women. They turn into a completely different human being that That I, as a dude, will not have ever seen. And, and realize that, like – to expand their imagination of how dudes are acting when they're not seeing them.

0:26:59 Holly: Yeah. And it sucks. Like I deeply empathize with like like this person's my friend and I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. You know, like I don't want to believe that this person is being weird with women, you know, like that sucks. It's heartbreaking, you but like imagine how like women feel on the other side of that, you know, where it's like God like

0:27:21 Lydia: You know and it also feels like like yeah that's a shitty feeling and stuff and you know I'm processing this too because like I think a lot of people hear stuff about like their friends or a friend of a friend and And like something that they did that you're like, wow, I believe it. Or like that's I'm not – I don't know. Maybe the story is a little different. But like that's that, the vector that's actually going to make an impact is if you believe the woman that your friend or a friend of a friend or whatever is capable of something like that. Then now your responsibility to step in and help them be better. How we're going to get it to change because it's not going to come from the women who are being victimized and harassed and predated upon in society. It's not gonna come from any sort of like authority figure or anything like that or like the general zeitgeist of, you society. None of that is going to work. What's going to works is the connections and kind of driving your friends to just be better people.

0:28:20 Holly: Dude.

0:28:21 Thomas: Interesting. I think that's why – you know how, in the same way that often when a man is doing this and you say, oh, I have a boyfriend, I have a husband, and in the same way that that kind of works often, I think for that very same reason, men don't show other men this stuff. And I think that like it does make it hard to be like, hey, you know, that way you're acting that I've never seen that cut it out. You know, it's like it's a it makes it hard. I think I think men do that on purpose. I they know they're doing something wrong with this and they don't show other men specifically because men are the people that we worry about the consequences of like men are the people we actually are afraid of pissing off oh

0:29:03 Holly: -hm yeah yeah I've used the like I have a boyfriend and that's also kind of why I don't say it anymore because I'm like it take me being owned by a man for you to leave me the fuck alone you know but yeah exactly you I could easily be like oh I'm married but like no fuck that and you know also before I've told people that and they've gotten immediately violent with me like I was at a bar one time and this guy was trying to talk to me and I was like I'M SORRY I HAVE A BOYFRIEND. And he started SAYING FUCK YOU BITCH YOU'RE NOT THAT CUTE I'M GONNA SLAP THE SHIT OUT OF YOU YEAH BITCH you're not going to do anything and I fawned, you know tried every tactic I've unfortunately had way too much practice and this was the first time that I actually felt of how I handled it you

0:29:17 Lydia: I've already been claimed so yeah yeah yeah yeah

0:29:51 Holly: I was like well now people can see yeah

0:29:54 Thomas: A no one situation it's just so shitty you know and it's like the one time you feel as you say the one one time you feel like you had in the way you wanted to it's like now there's all these other consequences I mean I guess I'm glad that like it in all it feels like you know you've been kind of happy with the consequences for the guy and how it's gone and that's good but I still worry about you a lot and I worry that like is this yeah is this like does it end up being the one time você respond em uma vez que você responde da maneira que você don't know yeah

0:30:17 Lydia: Your safety and security and yeah is

0:30:24 Holly: Right yeah I know that's something I'm like dealing with this week ever since he like found my information and I'm really on edge. I feel like the closest grocery store is in Glendale, and I'm scared to go to Glendal.

0:30:37 Lydia: Know you know we've talked about how no crime was committed so there's nothing really like the police can do but in terms of like pursuing a restraining order and you have knowledge that he has your address and your name like can that change the situation with the police because like yeah I mean now I'm just talking on a personal level not even for the podcast like I just want to make sure you're going to be okay okay

0:30:58 Holly: I don't know. Really raw right now, and if I go and they take me seriously then it's gonna hurt my feelings and I'm afraid of that you a small part of me that and I know it's other people's voices I know It's not my own voice and it's constantly saying like he didn't even do anything that that bad you mean I'm seeing comments saying you acted like you raped you.

0:31:26 Holly: Yeah. And I'm just like, yeah, you're right. He didn't. But like, I should be able to like go sit and read a book without having like my day be completely ruined by a troglodyte coming out of nowhere, you

0:31:41 Lydia: And I'm sorry and there there is no way for you to know that this stranger literally like towering above you looking down on you while while you're on the ground, whether they have weapons, whether they do have someone like willing to help them, you know, buy their car or whatever, like you have no way of knowing that at all. So you have to treat it like that could happen because it absolutely could happen.

0:32:08 Holly: Self -preservation, you know? And did have a friend that was like behind me in the bushes the whole time. Like You their whole body language was very threatening. And weren't trying to kidnap me. I'm like almost 40 years old. They're not going to try and kidnap you. You know what I mean? Like they're just their tactics when hitting on women. It's Just trying to like have the implication that you can't go anywhere. And that's a problem. You had it happen before. I I have almost like 100 stories of just like this. Insane. And like prey, you sucks, because I don't want to stop being myself. Like as the feminine woman that I am, you Know, I'm not going to cover myself up. I live in a free country I'm I'm not walking around naked or anything but like yeah but I mean that's kind of how they behave you like a feminine woman in the wild is like feel like a lamb and they're all wolves I know it's scary and I'm tired of it. I'm ready to put them on blast.

0:32:41 Lydia: They're like like hyenas, like, Yeah. Now you would have ended up in the police station for something else if you were so.

0:33:18 Thomas: Yeah I think we do need a shift you know I I think that the more people believe stories like yours and the more People are on the other side of the equation the more this becomes unacceptable I think that that can make a difference it's Just like I yeah Yeah, it's just it's such an unfair situation because like you have to respond in exactly the right way. And as you've covered, is there no right way to respond. There's no right way to respond when shutting down a man like this at all, which that's already unfair. And then even what's so frustrating is and it's so we've seen it with so many different things like this where they go to like, oh, you're acting like he raped you kind of thing, as you say. It's like, even if there is, you know, Lydia is saying that you never know, and absolutely, but also even if you were 100 % sure he wasn't going to, you you have the right to not be bothered in this way. And there's no, like, I don't know why that's controversial. And it's just this, I love the, you You know, back when we thought things were going on a better trajectory in discussions, I love the word empathy was one of the things that people coined where it's like people see this interaction and they put themselves in the man's place. Like they

0:34:29 Thomas: Just look at like, OK, I'm going to sympathize with the dude. Well, OK. Did he really do? Yeah.

0:34:34 Lydia: He's the main character in this. Yeah, like

0:34:36 Thomas: What did he really doing? Et cetera, et cetera. And it's think it's so clear if you look at, like, what your options are. Like if you're just somebody who's, maybe you not had this experience and maybe doesn't understand this interaction. I just think like if you look at what your options are and they're all terrible. And I just Think it's not right that your only option should be to put up with it or to like have to pretend to be interested in someone like that. It's not Right that that's your only options as simple as that like there's no way that's right and so getting up. It doesn't have to be that you're, you think you're going to get kidnapped or it doesn't have to Be that, you know, and it might be, but like, it doesn'T have to BE that it can be that You just don'T want to be fucking bothered by a random dude and dudes need to understand that, like, they shouldn't do that. Like, that's the only option here. Like, I don't know why anyone else online would be saying anything other than like, yeah, he shouldn'T be doing that. Like, that's it.

0:35:19 Holly: Walk

0:35:30 Thomas: End

0:35:29 Lydia: The first time that you said leave me alone, like okay, yeah, no,

0:35:32 Thomas: End of interaction.

0:35:35 Holly: Before that happened, I was at a store and this man walked up to me and he goes hi and I looked at him and like waiting to see if he was gonna like I don't know tell me I dropped something or like what he wanted you know and he kind of like looks me up and down goes hi I said I really don't need to talk to you and he left exactly he's not exposed you know not being doxxed

0:35:55 Lydia: Nice, yeah and that didn't make a TikTok video, right? Like Like, yeah,

0:36:03 Thomas: I I mean there's one step further they could go to just not do the first thing, but yeah, no, that's better.

0:36:09 Holly: Yeah no really though

0:36:10 Lydia: Hey, we're taking all the like the little wins, you know?

0:36:12 Thomas: For sure.

0:36:13 Holly: No but there's even like oh so men aren't allowed to approach women anymore these are that's like one of the famous comments that I'm getting so do you expect men to meet women and it's like dude they're a place really like

0:36:25 Thomas: Is that how you get? Yeah. That's my way. I do. You know how I met Lydia? I went up and I was like, are you Armenian? And And she's like, oh, my God, love of my life. And I was like, fuck, yeah.

0:36:34 Lydia: Well, like burst in on someone while they're trying to do something else, like while they'RE clearly trying to DO something else. Like I'm going to the bathroom and then like a man's going to open the stall and be like, hey, what are you doing? I'm freaking busy. I'm GOING to the BATHROOM.

0:36:36 Holly: I know yeah yeah yeah I'm

0:36:40 Thomas: Hi. It's amazing. Yeah.

0:36:49 Lydia: Leave me alone.

0:36:52 Holly: Just like dude there's like designated places for you to go like where women are like willing to be met you

0:36:58 Lydia: Like maybe even see like you know you can kind of hang up on the side and like maybe someone's gonna look up and then catch your eye and like you know they're they're gonna see you and you know there's there's all these like nuanced subtle things that can happen in the meantime like if it is in a place where you normally don't just like go and approach somebody I guess but what what you experienced what happened there is not it at all yeah

0:37:21 Holly: Like learn maybe learn to read body language before you like decide you want to start dating you know know like that's important yeah

0:37:30 Thomas: I think another thing that, like, really, I wish that, again, I guess I'm in I'm seeing all that in my mind. I'm saying all these, you know, the comments, too. Been around the block with a lot of this stuff and just seeing the stuff online. And it's like, I also think people should imagine what it would be like to always have this threat of danger. You know, like, yeah, I think that a lot of men, you know, certainly we don't go about the world feeling that kind of danger, like ever.

0:37:55 Thomas: I mean, sometimes, sometimes we feel that kind of danger and it's, like holy shit. But, like that danger, you know, that could be at any time for women is just, like it's something that men just do not understand and

0:38:07 Holly: Like we're living in two different countries like is scary it's go places like I have to have my husband with me you You know, like it's hard for me to go anywhere without having someone with me, preferably a man. I it's not just Los Angeles. I know. It's not. It's just like one demographic of men because I've lived all over California and it's happened everywhere.

0:38:32 Holly: It's like seeing somebody who they think is attractive and feeling entitled. And like that's that's the problem. Them

0:38:42 Thomas: What else has happened in the story do we do we get all the major points I mean it's been a month of this like uh anything else significant kind of happened in that month around this how

0:38:52 Holly: Like crazy other than like he's still going like like two days ago he was still writing comments he he tried to log into my Instagram I got a bunch of emails one night I'm just I'm assuming it was him I got a bunch of emails one night trying to log into my actor Instagram that had my full name. Then I'm friends with somebody who has like a pretty good following on Instagram who has like a page about Glendale who posted the video and he sent me screenshots of the comments saying, oh, we found her. We found Holly Halle. And it was like right after they got all these these emails saying that somebody trying to log into my Instagram. That's what put me on edge this week.

0:39:03 Thomas: Do you know that wow huh

0:39:40 Lydia: It's not even just him, right? It's like, his, family members and his close friends and stuff that, like, you don't necessarily know what they look like. Um

0:39:46 Holly: His friends. -hmm. Also, going around telling all of them and everybody that I'm like an Antifa liberal woman who goes to Armenian protests and targets gets men and um I guess

0:40:02 Thomas: Is that a genre of person I don't yeah well

0:40:06 Lydia: Getting really complicated haroot

0:40:08 Holly: I mean yeah no it's getting worse and worse every time he like tries to explain it he said that I was sitting on the blanket saying um armenians from the blanket like I know

0:40:17 Thomas: Your therapist did recommend that

0:40:20 Lydia: You have a vitamin d deficiency and also yeah racism deficiency Efficiency.

0:40:22 Thomas: Have you tried being racist outside for some reason more look you're going to be resistant to this idea but I've seen it do wonders in the past towards

0:40:32 Holly: Yeah just just know go outside by yourself sit on the floor and start yelling racist things towards like a group of men yeah him and all his like people are saying that I should not to go to Glendale and like and all this stuff and like I know that like the Armenian community is very tight -knit especially in Glendal because it's like a small town you know and that's like the one thing that that me uh pause yeah

0:40:38 Thomas: Men yeah yeah sure oh boy well shit I don't know yeah anything else to be said I don't know I hope this is I mean I hope this is kind of the end of the story but I don't know when is this when does the story end yeah

0:41:07 Holly: I don't know god um I don't know, but you know what like I'm gonna continue to put people on blast when they don't won't leave me alone and it sucks because I'm like, maybe I need to pick and choose like who to post because then it's going to look like I'm setting these situations up. They're already saying that I set this one up, you I'm just like, I, I'm tired of it. I want people to see their face. I want to show these men now, like there are eyes on you. Not not just me. I'm Like showing everyone there are eyes on you, you

0:41:42 Lydia: Well, I have to say you inspired me to start kind of like being more open about some of the things that I've experienced in the past and like sharing some of those stories. Normally, like I would just keep it in. Like shared something that Thomas reached out and he was like, you've never told me this. And I was like yeah, I don't know. I just never really talked about it.

0:42:04 Holly: Mean, we we Have to live and sit with these experiences for so long. And like, it, sucks, you know, like, we shouldn't have to be of fear of people not believing us, or like not not taking us seriously. I

0:42:16 Lydia: Making the other person mad. Like, like is a big one for me. Somehow this person, this random person is going to stumble on a post on my private Instagram. I'm still like anxious about it, you know.

0:42:28 Holly: Yeah. I mean, we've been taught to like, not make anyone mad. You know, we've conditions that way. I proof of like women's pain, not being recognized as serious, you know, like even like medically it's not recognized as something that to take seriously and so we hard to come out with your pain but I don't know I'm just tired I'm tired of it and I'm tried of it for for all women too I don' t want my friends who I love to have to sit with it

0:43:00 Thomas: It was surreal because you know when when you posted this I I was uh going through instagram I didn't see it on tiktok or anything but I saw just going through Instagram stories and it literally looked like oh holly's just sharing someone's viral video I'm not even joking like I literally scrolled past it was like oh whatever this is I don' t know and then I think Lydia made a comment like, can you believe what happened to Holly? And I was like, wait, what?

0:43:26 Lydia: Yeah.

0:43:27 Thomas: And then I went back. I was like, oh my God, that just like, you don't expect your, yeah, to be like your friend's like viral video. I did not expect that that was you. And then it was like oh my god, like that's crazy.

0:43:29 Lydia: That's Holly's video. Yeah.

0:43:34 Holly: Know a lot of people said that too they were like I saw that you posted that but I thought you were just reposting for like awareness nest but I had like patrons uh come into the bar and be like I saw that video like are you okay like it just popped up on their for you page yeah

0:43:44 Thomas: That totally. Oh my God.

0:43:57 Lydia: That's so crazy. Yeah?

0:43:58 Thomas: That is crazy. Didn't Lydia tell me you were like locked yourself in your car the other day or is that too

0:44:02 Holly: Dude literally just happened the fucking other day you know like I think it was like monday steven called me and was like um hey my car broke down I Steven's my husband he waslike my car just broke down and I haveto go to auto zone can you pick me up and take me to autozone and I waslike yeah there's an autozone like right around the corner for my house. And, I picked him up and I took him and he goes, stay in the car. Like, don't come with me. Cause he knows that like auto zone, there's going to be a bunch of dudes in there. And like, I'm right now I'm so on edge. I don't want to be around a bunch OF dudes, when I'm with him.

0:44:11 Lydia: Stephen's her husband. Yeah Yeah. When you're with him like it's just like you can feel them looking at you and yeah

0:44:38 Holly: Yeah. Know, I'll take him with me because most of the time they won't approach, but they have in front of him. And so I locked myself in the car and I'm not even like wearing anything crazy. I have no makeup up on my face I'm like in like a black t -shirt and this man not even two seconds after he walks into auto zone this freaking man walks up to the car and he's right up against my window he's staring in at me like he's looking at a freaking fishbowl or an and I'm like just ignore him just look forward just look look forward, just look forward.

0:45:17 Holly: And I pull out my switchblade and I pull up my phone. He's like still there. I pull off my phone and I start pressing record, but then I put it up to my, my ears if I'm like calling somebody. And finally I know, well, he was in a good place to where I could do that.

0:45:11 Thomas: Fuck what the fuck

0:45:36 Holly: You know, he Was like right on the side of me. And know, if he was was directly in front of me that maybe wouldn't have worked but as soon as I put the phone up to my ear he starts like walking away and I was like I'm gonna post this one too like when I was like 18, 20 years old I was pumping gas this guy would not leave me alone and I like ran over his foot yeah and

0:45:33 Lydia: That's smart yeah mm -hmm

0:45:48 Thomas: The fuck is happening yeah wow

0:45:50 Lydia: Post post mall yeah oh my God it's like the most holly story I've ever heard

0:46:07 Holly: He was like like, oh, but like, I don't care. Like, you know, but I mean, at least in, in, you know, in prison, I won't be around a bunch of creepy men.

0:46:07 Lydia: Oh my God Holly what's the statute of limitations on that

0:46:25 Holly: But it's not like a new thing. It' s just, I went to, I've recently been doing trauma therapy, EMDR therapy, um, like help me process things in real time. You're like focusing on this dot that's going back and forth and you're going through like memories and you are trying to relearn the thought patterns that came from these memories. Like a lot of the times with trauma, it creates a negative belief about yourself, right? For example, a lot of women who've been sexually abused, they start to believe like, I can't say no. I'm not allowed to say no, I'm allowed to stand up for myself. And that just becomes like their belief, it also puts them in a vulnerable position to like, for that to happen numerous worst times.

0:46:24 Lydia: What yeah

0:47:13 Holly: Yeah. And, I started doing that and like, it has helped me to not fawn anymore. Um, noticed the hugest difference when it comes to like, uh, able to take action, you know, like instead of like just letting my anger sit there and fester and feeling, feeling dysregulated and like out of my body and you know now I feel grounded in my body and I feel like I can like make decisions like in the moment which has never happened I never was able to make like clear decisions in the moment and it's because of like the trauma from past experiences you know but so I recommend emdr therapy for all women seriously like God.

0:47:59 Lydia: Just down some of those learned behaviors and um and like you said that the belief system right yeah becomes part of like what you think your identity is at a certain point, right.

0:48:03 Holly: The negative beliefs. Yeah, how you operate and like, in your everyday life. And like, you don't realize until after you do trauma therapy. It's like, damn, I really was so traumatized. It affected every single decision I made.

0:48:26 Thomas: Holly, thanks so much for sharing your story. And yeah, what the fuck are you supposed to say? I don't know. This fucking sucks.

0:48:31 Lydia: Yeah, can you need to escape you know

0:48:33 Thomas: Everybody's just, can people just be chill?

0:48:33 Lydia: You have a room with us yeah

0:48:35 Thomas: Can everyone, I'm not just this idiot, the guy, the people on the internet, you know, like just everybody just be chill.

0:48:39 Lydia: The guy filming women's butts like just walking around filming

0:48:42 Thomas: Just, just, just fucking chill. I don'T get it. Like what is, Why? Why? What's happened to the world?

0:48:43 Lydia: Butts and

0:48:50 Holly: For having a space to give me a voice about this because that's one of the things that these experiences do to women is they completely silence them and take away their voice and so this thank you yeah

0:49:07 Thomas: Our pleasure.

0:49:29 Lydia: We do like A like a 10 minute patron bonus about Thunder from Down Under?

0:49:36 Lydia: I I have so many thoughts. I have such a lot of so many thoughts about it. And how like it was such an empowering experience as a woman.

0:49:44 Thomas: Or is that too like scary to want to talk about no

0:49:46 Holly: Dude

0:49:45 Lydia: I no. We could we could talk about that. Speaking for Holly.

0:49:50 Thomas: She will say that she will tell that story the