Lively v. Baldoni 14 - It's Not Retaliation If You Wait a Little While Until You Do It, Right?

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:26 Thomas: Hello, and welcome to Gavel Gavel. This is episode 14. That's right, part 4 of Wayfair in New York Times. I'm Thomas. That over there is Lydia. How you doing?

0:00:37 Lydia: I am doing pretty well. We're moving right along. One can say that we're not meticulous.

0:00:42 Thomas: True, we don't know who else is going through it this much but um glad we are and it never gets old to me to see how um lacking that a lot of this stuff is so we're starting right off back on paragraph 17 this time and got to say there's a lot in this one. What we're going to talk about today. There's a lot to talk about because these slew of paragraphs that we're going to get through have a lot of the claims and pretty much the bulk of trying to counter Lively's harassment claims and we'll see how he does. Don't we just get on over to it? So we'll take our usual break, which you can avoid at patreon .com slash gavel pod. That's where all the best folks are. They're awesome.

0:01:24 Lydia: They are awesome.

0:01:25 Thomas: So cool. Thank you so much for supporting the show. Really appreciate it. We know not everyone can. That's all right. If you can't support the show, tell a buddy, That'll get been a way to show your appreciation for our meticulousness meticularity and appreciate it so much so um enjoy not hearing this ad everyone else enjoy the after the ad all And now we're really getting into some bullshit. This fantastic. Why don't you read us paragraph 17?

0:01:36 Lydia: Yeah. Meticularity. Paragraph 17. The Times compounded its journalistic failures by uncritically advancing Lively's unsubstantiated claims of sexual harassment against Heath and Baldoni. For example, the article based on Lively's CRD complaint sensationally alleges that, quote, quote, Mr. Heath had shown Lively a video of his naked wife.

0:02:15 Thomas: I stopped there. Sensationalized is Mr. Heath had shown Lively a video of his naked wife? Sounds not sensationalized to me.

0:02:24 Lydia: There's like no there's one adjective.

0:02:27 Thomas: Does this thing where it tries to, they always try to tie together the CRD complaint and the New York Times article, even though they're not. Here's what, I'll go back to the New York Times article. Talks about the meeting and it lists some things she complained about, which are facts. She did complain about these things. Even if you don't think they happened, this did happen. She did complain about them. That list, it says, Mr. Heath had shown her a video of his wife naked, she said, and And he had watched Miss Lively in her trailer when she was top. So that's the only sentence. That's it. Only sentence in the article is Mr. Heath had shown her a video of his wife naked. That sensationalized? So but if we tie it together for some reason with the CRD complaint in this complaint against the New York Times, then it goes on to say, all

0:03:09 Lydia: Lively's CRD complaint even labeling the footage as, quote, pornography. Claim is patently absurd. The video in question was a non -pornographic recording of Heath's wife and baby during a home birth, a deeply personal one with no sexual overtone. Distort this benign event into an act of sexual misconduct is outrageous and emblematic of the lengths to which Lively and her collaborators are willing to go to defame plaintiffs.

0:03:36 Thomas: Right, look, I going to be people who have different views on what constitutes sexual harassment. But if you, out of the blue, show someone your wife giving birth naked and they have a problem with it, going to go ahead and side with them. Like, what are you talking about?

0:03:54 Lydia: This is a workplace. It is a different kind of workplace, I guess, because we're not used to being on set. But if you were in the office and one of the higher ups came over to your desk unannounced, any sort of question, would you like to see this beautiful video I have of our home birth? Nothing that happened like that. It And was just. In your face, would you feel comfortable in that moment in your workplace? Think I back on like some of the bosses I've had, I'm like, yeah, that I, I don't even know what I would do. I'd be so thrown off.

0:04:25 Thomas: There's, yeah, there's no good version of this. It's silly. And this an example of how misdirection here, that's pretty consistent. It says still of the video reference. It has a picture in the complaint and here's the thing. Let's go back. According to the complaint, you this noted something interesting about the timing. When I first read it, I assumed this was part of the effort to get her to do nudity for the birthing scene. But it sounds like from what you're saying that this actually happened perhaps the next next day um I guess was still probably because of that so they're trying to convince her to be nude for the birthing scene and she's like yeah well that's weird and they're saying and puts in quotes here I don't know you know if that's just her remembering um know recalling the words uh the day of shooting the scene in which miss lively's character gives birth mr baldoni and mr heath suddenly pressured miss lively to simulate full nudity despite no mention of nudity for the scene in the script her contract or in previous creative discussions mr baldoni insisted to lively that women give birth naked and that his wife had ripped her clothes off during labor he claimed it was quote not normal for women to remain in their hospital gowns while giving birth miss lively disagreed but felt forced into a compromise that she would be naked from below the chest down um so then there's the whole disgusting thing about the birth scene not hired his friend and also it wasn't closed set like it was supposed to be and then it does say so it does say it doesn't say the next day but says to add insult to injury mr heath approached miss lively and her assistant on set and started playing a video of a fully nude woman with her legs spread apart so right away she says miss lively thought he was showing her pornography and stopped him him. Mr. Heath explained that the video was his wife giving birth. Ms. Lively was alarmed and asked Mr. Keith if his wife knew he was sharing the video, to which she replied she isn't weird about this stuff, as if Ms. lively was weird for not welcoming it. Lively and her assistant excuse themselves, stunned that Mr. Heath had shown them the nude video. Yeah, apropos of nothing, you just show a video with a woman giving birth like that's That's a that's a very, very that on someone is crazy to me. And then to try to put his photo in there, to try to put a still, which if you look, there's a baby in it. So definitionally, that's not what it was when he was showing it. He was showing a video of her legs spread before she's giving birth. I guess she was naked in it and then in order to show, look, it's such a wholesome some video. It's

0:06:44 Thomas: Not, you couldn't possibly think.

0:06:44 Lydia: They find the frame that,

0:06:45 Thomas: Yeah. They pick a frame after the baby's born and she's holding the baby on her chest. So you can't see her chest and she's in this like water, I guess a home birth or whatever. She's in water. So he can't say anything else. And he's in there with her, but if the whole point they were trying to make was women give birth naked and you show a still of after birth happened, we know that's not what you were doing.

0:07:09 Lydia: This is also during lunch. So like, let me present you with a baby crowning.

0:07:16 Thomas: Just so pathetic like I feel like this legitimizes her claim even more and this is a terrible excuse I mean it'd be one thing if they were like this never happened she made it up but for him to essentially um her claim and give a horrible excuse you I'm gonna say this one I'm fully in Blake Lively's corner on um no such thing as showing a video like that having the person be like what is it I don't want to watch this is this pornography you know because they see it and then don't that way and then like somehow they're the asshole like Like, that's just not even close to plausible in any way.

0:07:28 Lydia: Corroborate. Keep in mind, this is also after like several other. Uncomfortable moments that Blake has had. On the timeline front, you know, just to kind of like bring in some more specifics. What we know, the birth scene was filmed on May 22nd, 2023. There was no intimacy coordinator present this day. I would hope personally as a woman that intimacy coordinators would be requested to be on set because like I feel like giving birth is a pretty intimate experience. Didn't happen until the following day, May 23rd.

0:08:22 Thomas: You know, that is interesting. That is what you say. But then in this very complaint, it says, the Times failure to scrutinize these claims or even provide a balanced account of the events.

0:08:35 Thomas: OK, I remind you it was Mr. Heath had shown her a video of his wife naked. That was the sentence. Anyway, balanced. Says a account of the events further underscores its role in amplifying Lively's falsehoods while abandoning its responsibility to truth and accuracy. And that says, the video was shown to Lively as part of a creative discussion in preparation for a birthing scene in the film. Informed Lively that his wife condoned displaying the video. Yeah. Any suggestion that Heath engaged in the exhibition of pornography or inappropriate content is false. So, yeah, I don't, does that, that's

0:09:08 Lydia: Well, it's this is skipping ahead a little bit. That is contradicted in their own amended complaint that they issue in January.

0:09:16 Thomas: Weird.

0:09:17 Lydia: Entire timeline. It lists May 22nd. Shoot day number six there. Know, she's giving birth, et cetera, etetera. And we'll get into it later. And then later on, May 23rd, during lunch, as part of a continued creative discussion that they were having about the hospital birthing scene for

0:09:29 Thomas: Was it more than a one -day shoot or, like, do they have more to do?

0:09:32 Lydia: The birthing seen. I don't

0:09:33 Thomas: Yeah, I guess not.

0:09:34 Lydia: I don' so I mean I it don't think it says any other time that they continued filming the birthing scene yeah

0:09:41 Thomas: Yeah, weird. But I'll be honest, Like both I are bad and I don'T even know which is worse. Like in some ways I could see arguments for either being worse because, again, if you're showing it in trying to like convince her to do more nudity than she wants to do and all that, that'S bad. That if you're still on this topic the next day, like after this conversation has been done, that's also bad. Point the point is even more corroboration shown too lively as part of a creative discussion in preparation for a birthing scene. Again, if try to do this thing where, oh, it was a completely fine video and here's a screenshot, which conveniently doesn't have any nudity. It's like, again, the point you were trying to make was that she should be naked for it. So we know the thing you were doing was showing her a video of someone naked giving birth. Like we just know it's, it's so pathetic. This is one of the times where I really took a turn for like, okay, I, this, this is absolute bullshit. There's no such thing as being the person who sprung this on someone and then they complain and then there are wrong. Like there's just, there's no Such thing as that.

0:10:41 Lydia: And honestly like that sentence I'm guess I'm hung up on the timeline thing but like this sentence is just like a flat -out lie the video was shown to lively as part of a creative discussion in preparation for a birthing in the film it should be like the video

0:10:55 Thomas: Yeah. Was shown as part of a, and one more thing. Uh, no, I am right. Or something, you know, like who knows?

0:11:03 Lydia: Well, and it's like this this is the same legal team that are putting these two things together and not getting their story straight across the complaints. So anyway, flagging that for discussion later.

0:11:14 Thomas: Well I guess you I could always say the could have been corrected and and that's the honestly that's not the kind of thing that I would count too much against they're trying to get this complaint out immediately she presented it that way that it kind of was part of that so I I don't know I point is this is just terrible all around and uh we get we here we get so another claim was the trailer stuff oh

0:11:34 Lydia: Right. Paragraph 19. Adding to the sexual harassment narrative is the article's parroted accusation that, quote, both men repeatedly entered her makeup trailer uninvited while she was undressed, including when she was breastfeeding.

0:11:47 Thomas: That's interesting hold on that's that's an interesting place to start the quote. Let me just look what's before that. She said that both men repeatedly entered. Oh, wow. Weird that the she said is not before that again. The New York Times. You're trying to sue for libel. You selectively quote. So it just says both men repeatedly. And nope, it says she said this is her complaint. Not libel, man.

0:12:10 Lydia: And the article failed to mention is that Lively invited Baldoni into her trailer while pumping to, quote, work out their lines.

0:12:17 Thomas: Yeah. This one is really bad.

0:12:18 Lydia: Then we get a screenshot from Justin's phone, and it starts from him to Blake Lively. Blake, I'm so sorry to hear you and baby are sick. I know it's literally the last thing you needed right now on top of a tough week. I pray it comes and goes with mild symptoms and more than anything that he is okay. If you're up for it, I am here absolutely anytime and would love to check in. I am committed to making things run smoother across the board. That was May 26th. Responds June 2nd. Our mistake. Molly did get the new pages at 11 p .m. last night. She didn't realize they were new, but new pages can always be sent to me as well, please.

0:12:50 Thomas: It sounds like that's It's not a response. It seems like they just included that first message to try to make him look like such a nice guy.

0:12:52 Lydia: Not a response. Yeah. I agree. And continues I'm just pumping in my trailer and this is underlined I'm, just pumping in my trailer if you want to work out our lines Justin says Copy, eating with crew and we'll head that way blake lively says take your time. Says I'm here I'll meet you in hair and makeup. Says sorry. I'm just seeing this and then they justin sends some uh dialogue from the script her

0:13:15 Thomas: Dialogue or something. So this is represented as what Lively in the article failed to mention is Lively invited Baldoni into her trailer while pumping to work out the lines. Didn't see any of that. I saw I'm pumping in my trailer. You want to work out our lines, you know, if we had something like that to do, let's say we're going to work on lines. I was like, oh, hey, I'm just about to take a shower. If You Want to Work Out Our Lines, that could imply I will be done in a few minutes is what that could apply. It doesn't say, come on in, come into the shower.

0:13:25 Lydia: Trailer Yeah yeah. You a timeline. Yeah.

0:13:47 Thomas: Yeah, I'M JUST PUMPING. Now, for who doesn't know, why don't you talk about, like, how long does pumping usually take? Like, what's that process?

0:13:47 Lydia: I mean, I would say anywhere between like 15 and 30 minutes.

0:13:59 Thomas: It's not like it's four hours. If someone said, I'm just pumping my trailer if you want to work out our lines, I think that implies, like. Not busy after that or you're not, you know, it'S like, that'S the thing you're doing. You're NOT doing some other, like... current status. And also, it even says, take your time, you with crew and we'll head that way. Way eating takes about as long as pumping like it's just it doesn't take that long to pump and then he says I'm here I'll meet you in hair and makeup and she says sorry I'm just seeing this so like that isn't what happened they didn't meet in her trailer while she was pumping so this isn't anything yep

0:14:31 Lydia: Was pumping. It also is specifically just Baldoni and not Heath and Baldoni. And just one time.

0:14:37 Thomas: And just one time and that's another thing now even if this were that just correct me if I'm wrong, listeners, tell there are times you might be set up to pump where it's like, eh, it's not as big of a deal. You're not having to completely like disrobe versus maybe you're wearing a different thing. And like, it'S more cumbersome to like get in and out of that situation. Right?

0:14:57 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, it can be like if you're wearing, you a specific dress or something where you can kind of just drop the top of it. That's Like a lot easier versus like there are other shirts where it's really, really challenging to pump with and you're having to remove them completely.

0:15:11 Thomas: Like, So what, this already was true, but just over -determining the fact that one time, even if this were what he's saying, And it doesn't seem to me that it is. Could have been a one time thing where she felt like she was in a good setup or position to do that. And it does not apply any other time. And she's complaining. If she has complained about them, here's from the New York Times. She said that both men repeatedly entered her makeup trailer uninvited while she was undressed, including when she was breastfeeding. So that isn't even a time they're talking about. So, like, this isn'T even relevant to this. Like, if you had gotten this text, like just everybody listening at home, again, man to man, actually, because this does involve male conduct. I to man, you tell me right now, if you are a man listening to this and someone said, I'm just pumping my trailer if you want to work out our lines. That time, by the way, you didn't didn'T meet her when she was pumping. Then from then on after, do you think you would assume you could just walk into someone's space while they're pumping their boobs for their baby?

0:16:12 Lydia: Yeah.

0:16:12 Thomas: Would you man to men? You think that's cool? You think That'd be fine? No problems there. And even if somehow you had some friendship or relationship where that was fine, this clearly isn't that. And if the woman complained later, I think we know whose fault it would be. You know, it's just not credible. Gets even worse because already we went for his framing for some reason. Like it just was really easy to like take his framing from that text and talk about it. But mind you, she said while she was breastfeeding, talked about like, oh, I'm pumping. That's different. That'S a different process. So it just goes to show, like, if one time she said, I'm pumping in my trailer and you didn't even meet in her trailer, which I think is clear, that wasn't the plan. Like, it just doesn't seem like it. Because because he didn't, he didn'T say, I'M, yeah.

0:17:01 Lydia: Knock.

0:17:02 Thomas: Hello. Hi, I' m texting you while talking to you, looking at you for some reason. And she says in her complaint throughout Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath, by the way, to your point, this doesn't at all him. It's I might, I just, I'm I so sorry. There are so many people on the internet who are so wrong about this entire thing. And I just want to just, if there's any men, I wish I could look them in the eye right now and say, do you think that because one time Baldoni got a text saying, I am just in my trailer pumping, if you want to run lines, and he didn't even go in then. Do you think that means Heath is good too? That consent just travels, that non -existent consent also travels to another guy who she's already creeped out by? You think that's fine? You think I'll be okay? Unbelievable. I know they don't actually believe that. I

0:17:13 Lydia: Exonerate him. Yeah. Yeah. Hmm.

0:17:48 Thomas: Know They wouldn't do that in their real lives. They might say it, but I know these men wouldn't, because they know better. They absolutely know better, and if they did do it, they would know they were doing something creepy. Like it's just not even a close call. So she says, Mr. Baldoni and Mr. Heath invaded Miss Lively's privacy by entering her makeup trailer uninvited while she was undressed, including when she was breastfeeding her infant child. Litely often had to work while breastfeeding, which she felt comfortable. We read that part. Miss Lively did not expect or consent to anyone entering her private spaces while topless, exposed and vulnerable with a newborn or during body makeup. And the, point I was making earlier about the actually applied more to breastfeeding. I think that that was what I was thinking. It's not, pumping is always going to be a little weird, I think, to have someone there. Cause it's just like, I mean, you tell me, but you know, it's a, it'S an interesting mechanism.

0:18:31 Lydia: It's like right right right.

0:18:33 Thomas: Yeah. I'm sure it doesn't feel amazing to have a work meeting in person while doing that, but

0:18:38 Lydia: Your nipples are being pulled into a machine. Yeah

0:18:42 Thomas: Breastfeeding it's like, sometimes you could be in an outfit where, you know like you could have have a conversation, I guess, if you wanted to. But again, none of that at all would justify doing like entering someone's space without their permission. It's just not even close. It is just different ways that this is absolutely pathetic and terrible.

0:18:57 Lydia: And I mean, she's not breastfeeding in a public space. She is breastfeeding any private space. So that indicates she wants privacy. If she didn't mind having a conversation with people while she was breastfeeding, she would be hanging out at a picnic table outside on the lot, you know, like while she's feeding her son. And maybe that happens sometimes. Who knows? But it did not happen when she was in her trailer. That is a private space for that purpose.

0:19:21 Thomas: Right. Just the Well, hits keep on coming. So let's let's go paragraph 20.

0:19:25 Lydia: The allegation that Baldoni inappropriately described Lively's character's attire as, quote, sexy is exaggerated and misleading. The exchanges between Baldoni and Lively show that Lively had insisted that her character's clothing be, quote. Sexier. When Baldoni later used the word sexy, he was just responding to her creative input, not objectifying her personally. Lively set the tone that Baldomi heeded during the creative process. Then we have a screenshot here again from Justin to Blake. Says, we'll show you both ways, but Beanie is much sexier. It's the look. Feels TV without, especially with a crop top in the snow. It justifies the rest of the skin. And because it washes the effort off the rest and then get a lot of irrelevant quotes.

0:20:10 Thomas: That wasn't. Yeah, it's like later different conversation. So yeah, it surprise you to learn that none of this is in the New York times article?

0:20:13 Lydia: Was May 17th. Not.

0:20:19 Thomas: Uh just doing a quick search for sexy, not there. So again, feel free to include this in his amended complaint against her or something, but this isn't in there. So it's kind of irrelevant. They present it? Just says, likewise, the allegation. So he's just taking the opportunity to add that. This is in the CRD complaint. So what it says there. Oh, Okay, good.

0:20:39 Lydia: I have that up. There it says Mr. Baldoni often referred to women in the workplace as sexy when they express discomfort. Mr.

0:20:51 Thomas: Interesting.

0:20:51 Lydia: And then Blake Lively gives an example where he tells a different female cast member that her leather pants look sexy when she arrived to the set when she rebuffed his comment because she was uncomfortable rather than apologizing. He brushed it off with I can say that because my wife is here today.

0:21:06 Thomas: So actual thing they're talking about is next, but, but still that's important because it's the technique all the way down here, which is respond to one aspect of something with something that I think is still completely inadequate. Look, there may be a couple of times where he he might be right because maybe there is a misinterpretation somewhere that I'm totally willing to believe that. And I'll call it out when I see it. A lot of this is five five accusations, respond to one of them badly, and forget the other four. And so her discussion of her character and her clothing or whatever would have no bearing whatsoever on these other people who were

0:21:10 Lydia: The following paragraph. Right

0:21:41 Thomas: Complaining about it. A female cast member that her leather pants look sexy when she arrived to the set. That's not in costume.

0:21:48 Lydia: The the with Blake, it says. He wanted to see her onesie under the coat because it was zipped low to reveal her lace bra. Consistent with past practice, he said, quote, I think you look sexy in a tone that made her feel ogled and exposed. With other female cast members present, she said, that's not what I'm going for. He bristled and replied, I'm sorry, hot. Deeply uncomfortable, Ms. Lively said, not that either. Mr. Baldoni responded sarcastically, I guess I missed the HR meeting and walked away.

0:22:15 Thomas: It's, read that next sentence too.

0:22:17 Lydia: Yeah. And then it says that another woman on the production spoke to Miss Lively afterward to offer empathy and to share her own similar experiences with Mr. Baldoni commenting about her in sexual terms. Like a reasonable complaint.

0:22:29 Thomas: This one, I mean it so little because so clearly he's in the wrong here it's not close but like I think this is an interesting thing where maybe think he was doing a switcheroo where it's like oh you look sexy and then it's Like oh no you look hot as in you need to remove something because your temperature is hot but then it seems like she still interpreted that as how she looked which whatever I don't blame her but like yeah

0:22:48 Lydia: I think the way that he responds kind undermines the way they're trying to play that too where he's like no I just meant temperature wise like that's not how he responded in the moment according to blake how he

0:23:01 Thomas: No it's either way like it's what's funny is the like version that she kind of it seems like she maybe didn't pick up on in the moment is actually grosser that's like more gross you know if you're like oh sexy oh no I I'm sorry uh you're too warm you better take that off that's it's more gross to me um but it seems Like she maybe even charitably was just interpreting it as him picking a different adjective to try to like be and I guess I don' t know for sure which interpretation is correct, but that's what, when I read it, that's what occurred to me that he was doing some like, know, obnoxious, like, oh, you don't know. I just mean you're hot. So you better remove some of that kind of thing. Is, I just want to point that out. Cause I think that's like kind of even grosser, but again, as a result of Mr. Baldoni's behavior on May 29th, another cast member lodged a sexual harassment complaint about Baldoni is gross and unwanted comments toward her and others. So yeah, yeah, this is a Baldoni problem. Problem. This is not a Blake Lively problem. Just because in a text, like a week and a half before that, when they were talking about costuming, she said Beanie is much sexier. Does not excuse any of all of that.

0:24:07 Lydia: Right, now they're bringing in New York Times stuff again. Misleading, the article draws on Lively's assertion that Baldoni, quote, improvised unwanted kissing and discussed his sex life. Both the Times and Lively intentionally exclude that Lively refused to meet with the intimacy coordinator to plan out the film's sex scenes. In turn was forced to meet and relay any suggestions to Lively separately. Notwithstanding Baldoni's reluctance, he and Lively would later sketch out the scenes together, absent the intimacy coordinator. As part of those creative discussions, Baldoni and Latively sought to personalize and develop their characters and, in doing so, engaged in conversation about their individual experiences. The Times, taking Lively's CRD complaint as true, characterizes this discussion as an inappropriate attempt by Baldoni to talk about a sex life. It was not. More still, Baldoni consistently acted at the direction of the intimacy coordinator. These baseless accusations do not constitute sexual harassment.

0:24:51 Thomas: Now, maybe, pause here to just do the thing where we compare to the article before we go on. Says she detailed her complaints. It says she claimed Mr. Baldoni had improvised unwanted kissing and discussed his sex life, including encounters in which she he said he may not have received consent. Don't you tell us what's in the complaint on this?

0:25:26 Lydia: So it says that to her 17 -item list, without these protections in place, Mr. Baldoni improvised physical intimacy that had not been rehearsed, choreographed, or discussed with Ms. Lively, with no intimacy coordinator involved. For instance, Mr.-Baldoni discreetly bit and sucked on Ms .Lively's lower lip during a scene in which he improvised numerous kisses on each take. Mr .Baldony insisted on shooting the full scene over and over again, well beyond what would have been required on an ordinary set and without advance notice or consent.

0:25:55 Thomas: So that's her allegation. Again, you can go ahead and not believe her for some reason. I that's unlikely given like how vociferous she was early before there was any legal anything and how, you know, the fact that she had the meeting. Fine, but you can't pretend that this responds to that. That's Like he is trying to explain things away is misdirection and dishonest. Again, the article says she alleged it. It's in her complaint and says she said, so that's our, as far as this actual legal stuff goes in this complaint, there's fucking nothing here. Like they are allowed to report on her allegations and they did it as such. End of story. Like, I just, it's not even, we'll talk to the lawyer, but like, as far as I'm concerned, end of story, but in terms of the like of the complaint, I suppose, of the actual CRD complaint and that kind of thing, this doesn't address that at all. Let's try to to track of what's being alleged and what's being responded to because it really is we may need more information on this but we see a text that you are speculating I think reasonably that is in probably late march because it's about it says justin baldoni and he just hired an intimacy coordinator according to I don't know his timeline later or something he met with the Intimacy Coordinator on April 1st. Filming doesn't Start until May 15th. So, okay, let me just read the text. Just hired Intimacity Coordinator who I love. We'll set you up to meet slash FaceTime

0:27:20 Lydia: FaceTime.

0:27:22 Thomas: With her next week for intro. And this would have been, by the way, before any real issues, right? Is still Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni on good terms. They haven't started filming. Blake Lively says, I feel good. I can meet her when we start. Thank you, though. Also Blake Lievely is busy. She has another project. She had just given birth. She's saying, it seems to me when I read this, I'm like, yeah, I don't need to meet them ahead of time. Like just when we do it, we do it, which, a month and a half ahead of, like, is that normal that you would have to meet an intimacy coordinator a month And a half before shooting? I don't really think this, this strikes me as like an extra, um, might be nice of Baldoni at this time to be like, Hey, I met a great person. I know you'll love set you up to meet. She's offering that. And she's saying, Oh, no, thanks. Don't need it. It's almost like she trusts him at this point. Don't need to meet ahead of time. We can just do it when we start. Then we see he forwarded that to a producer. It says female producer. He said, just FYI, just wanted to tell you about this. Seems she doesn't want to meet the intimacy coordinator until we start, which may mess up the workflow, but I can still meet with her. Of course, says that's fine. If she doesn'T want to Meet her now, you'll just have to walk her through what you and intimacy coordinator are thinking.

0:28:27 Lydia: I imagine that's Alex Sachs because she's the only other PGA female producer.

0:28:32 Thomas: Keeping in mind that the The allegation in the CRD complaint is that Baldoni improvised stuff and discreetly bit and sucked on Miss Lively's lower lip during a scene which he improvised numerous kisses. And also the intimacy coordinator was not there for this. His response is, oh, yeah, but you didn't meet the intimacy co -ordinator a month and a half ahead of time. I don' don't, t think that really responds to it Because I think in Blake's mind, it's like, yeah, I DON'T need to meet her ahead of, like A pre -meeting, because again just says, we 'LL set you up to meet slash FaceTime with her next week For intro, so she's like I DON' T need an introduction, like And I have all this empathy in the world for this, because I have no time If someone's like oh yeah, we'll just do a quick call, you know I'm like, it' s fucking fine, I Don' T, whatever whenever we

0:29:06 Lydia: We'll do that. We'll do That when we have our conversation.

0:29:18 Thomas: Need to do a thing yeah and that's so like I'm I'm fully on board with her response here she's she just had a baby like literal newborn hey I'm good I'll meet her when we actually start um which I I guess like there's a possibility there's some misunderstanding but he did say for intro so that that's not even to plan the scenes you know like an intro isn't planning the scenes in detail, which fairness, this is still before any like And Baldoni does seem to believe that this messes up the workflow. And I guess I'm confused why. Like, I don't really know why not FaceTiming for a quick intro messes Up the workflow, but I also, again, I don't think he's like lying here. I think he is genuinely because this is a text again, April April 6th, where we see this text to female producer. So I believe him here like,

0:30:01 Lydia: No, April 6 is when it continues. They did a terrible screenshot here. We don't Know when that was

0:30:06 Thomas: Yeah. OK, so we don't know when it was, but sometime before April 6. We know it was before, you know, whatever. It's in it's in a time period where there problems yet that we know of at all. It doesn't seem like. So I believe Him that he thinks this is going to mess up the workflow. But again, the female producers says that's fine. So is it that they still needed to, like, work out some writing or something?

0:30:27 Lydia: So we we see the notes later on in the process. Right. At this point in time, we don't. But he did have significant like handwritten notes from that meeting with the intimacy coordinator talking about, you approach to to sex from these characters, points of view, et cetera, et and I'm sure we'll discuss that more at a later point in time. But it did sound like it ended up being a little bit of a working meeting, even though it was an intro. To know each other.

0:30:58 Thomas: But that's not even necessarily what because says we'll set you up to meet like that's not like she didn't miss that meeting this. Like, I think he either I think he might have miscommunicated or like later. It seems like he miscommunicated because if I see a text that says we will set you up to me will set you up to meet with her or FaceTime with her for an intro. Think that's her saying saying, I don't know, whatever, I trust you. She's good.

0:31:23 Thomas: This doesn't sound like, hey, we're going to craft our scene together. And she's like, fuck you, don't care.

0:31:22 Lydia: I think that's a fair point. Yeah

0:31:29 Thomas: You know, it's like that's a totally different thing. And furthermore, even did catch her up later about going with the scene. They had those discussions. And she is saying that he stuff that wasn't in that. And so this doesn't even necessarily respond to that. See, what he gives us proof here is a big gotcha, is she didn't do a FaceTime intro a month and a half ahead of time. That's a non sequitur. That doesn't respond to the claim.

0:31:57 Lydia: If like the intimacy coordinator diagramming out this scene that never gets written down is therefore consenting on Blake's behalf for for these things, which is insane.

0:32:09 Thomas: Intimacy coordinator isn't there on that day of shooting that we know of. That seems to be what Blake's saying. And I don't see him saying yeah actually she was there that day so I think we can assume she wasn't and that's part of her complaint like that is why she had a bulleted list of complaints one of them was we need an intimacy coordinator if we're going to do anything like this because yes and it sounds Like maybe what the plan was was we'll have the intimacy coordinator on like these kind of heavy intimacy days but there's going to be a bunch of stuff that's marginal. And then also he's kind of taking it more sexual than it was where there's not a coordinator there and she's not okay with that. And that makes sense to me. That seems reasonable to me.

0:32:29 Lydia: It can't just be like a credit for an intimacy coordinator. They actually need to physically be there on set. Hmm.

0:32:54 Thomas: Anyway, I mean, I could look, this is one where I could see if there's more facts or something that make that make sense. But again, I think this is another case of trying to pull a fast one on us. Like if you look at that wording, that might as well say found a great intimacy coordinator it's her son's birthday do you want to go to a birthday party and she's like no I'm good and then he's like well fuck she didn'T didn't lay out the scene with me so it's like No you said intro a FaceTime for an intro you too not even Justin there so

0:32:53 Lydia: Yeah? Mm hmm? Also, like as the director, he have been more like, hey, no, actually, I think this is going to be more of a working meeting with the three of us. You would like you to be there. Me work with your schedule. What's a good day? It is weird.

0:33:33 Thomas: Weird it's so yeah it's weird it just it seems like either way it's on hit like maybe best case scenario, he miscommunicated. But I still think that's totally tangential to why this went wrong. I don't even think it would have mattered. Like it doesn't seem like the intimacy coordinator planning was sufficient. And it seems like he went above and beyond that in a way she wasn't comfortable with and she wasn't there that day. So I think we can move on from that one. But again, it's another slimy misdirection. All right, I think, it's I so hard to, said I we weren't gonna read the whole thing, so far we have, because it's impossible not to. Why don't you take 22 and, you know, 23 and 20, because 22 is great! It's fantastic.

0:34:11 Lydia: All its effort to craft a distorted narrative, the Times fails to address a glaring contradiction in lively CRD complaint. After the execution of the Protections for Return to Production agreement in November 2023, Lively herself acknowledges that the film was, quote, completed, marketed, and released safely and successfully. While Wayfair, Baldoni, and Heath disagreed with Lively's rationale for requesting the document, many of its provisions were already standard practice, they chose to comply for the sake of the film and to ensure Lively. Crucially, Lively concedes that neither Baldoni nor Heath engaged in any quote, harassing behavior following the agreement in November 2023. she admits that her stated concerns were sufficiently addressed at that time. This admission directly undermines her allegations of retaliation and strips her claims of credibility. Without the fabricated smear campaign narrative propping up her CRD complaint, Lively's retaliation claim collapses under its own contradictions, exposing it as yet another ploy to salvage her public image rather than pursue any legitimate grievance.

0:35:19 Thomas: What? Look, she was so offended, and just on her behalf, behalf, but on others in the production's behalf, that she got her lawyers together and made a bolted list and had a very uncomfortable meeting in which her husband had to yell saying like, stop doing this disgusting shit. That, we're fine. So what are you talking about? That doesn't make any sense. Look, sounds like what happened was she was really disturbed and grossed out out by his behavior, but was signed on to do a very important project to her and was a project she wanted to do and wasn't going to let him take that away from her. So she was going to finish the project. If has to finish a project with like pretty extreme measures that she had to take. That's when you're like, well, yeah, once you had like an armed guard, I didn't attack you then, you know? So it's like, yeah. But she had to have that armed guard you know it's like she had to do these things and that was enough for her to be like this guy's gross it's really gross behavior and that is what caused the rift and of this argument is insane because okay for it to be retaliation has to be about her having done this you know loosely speaking about her her having complained about her treatment, sexual harassment. Saying because she complained about sexual harassment, which again, we're all agreeing and the law agrees, especially in California, that that means he can't retaliate against her for it no matter what. Like even if it's not like official HR complaint, by the way, even if it's informal, she had to go to these lengths and then they behaved themselves after that. There can't be retaliation for what happened to begin with. Doesn't follow. That Doesn't Make Any Sense. If, to just put it simply, say just for fun, I'm going to switch it. Let's just say Lydia sexually harassed me. It's about time men catch a break here. And it's actually gross. I can't, it's too hard to imagine because there's, you know. So when it comes to I have full consent in sexual harassment. But let's say somebody sexually harasses me and it's gross and I don't like it and I complain. And that person corrects their behavior for his claim to be true. Now, if that person then traditional workplace, let's say after that, the person got me fired. Make sense as a defense to say, well, but I was better after you complained, so I can get you fired now. That's fine. It's not retaliation.

0:37:40 Thomas: Doesn't make any sense. It is a total non sequitur. Again, that admission, he says in this complaint, she admits that her stated concerns were sufficiently addressed at that time. This admission directly undermines her allegations of retaliation and strips her of credibility. Why?

0:37:58 Lydia: And when I think they're really relying on this idea that like don't believe the smear campaign like that, if audience feels like that didn't actually happen, then this is like the last thing they need to take apart, which is to say that they were on their best behavior after November 2023. I think that's assuming a lot.

0:38:18 Thomas: Doesn't even make any sense. Yeah, exactly. The fabricated smear campaign narrative propping up her CRD complaint, retaliation claim collapsed. Well, I mean, it is true that if there weren't a smear campaigning, then yeah, there's not a retaliation. That's not even an attack on anything. That be true regardless of the first stupid point.

0:38:31 Lydia: Yeah. Well, I mean, that that's Well we wouldn't have a New York Times article. We wouldn't

0:38:39 Thomas: We wouldn't have any of this. Just to make the point again, if I complain that my boss is sexually harassing me they fire me, but they didn't sexually harass me after that, what, what does that mean? That doesn't, that isn't not retaliation. This is just the stupidest fucking argument. Because stopped sexually harassING someone, but then retaliated against them later, that doesn't undermine a claim of retaliation? I don't know. I'm just making sure we're all, am I reading English? Like, it's just, this is the most gaslighting bullshit in the world. Yeah, Lively herself acknowledges that the film was completed safely, blah, blah. That's not a knock on Blake Lively. Her being truthful about what fucking happened, all of a sudden counts against her. If she's like, yes, and I will report truthfully after I had to fucking complain about all this fucking bullshit, then they were better. But now they've retaliated against me that's not a knock on her for acknowledging that they did if anything that makes it more credible she didn't if she was just making shit up why wouldn't she make up a bunch more stuff after that it's is the same kind of crap that happens with conspiracy theories where first she's is a super genius who makes stuff up and can fabricate all this stuff. But then after the agreement is signed, then she loses that ability. She lost her powers, kryptonite. She can no longer make stuff up because if she's just making it up, why the fuck wouldn't she make up more stuff after that? That would look even worse for them. Parsimonious explanation is that she genuinely had these concerns and they did behave better after she She had to fucking get lawyers involved, which is so embarrassing. Like, yeah, I would hope they would, like, it'd be crazy if they didn't be, they weren't on their best behavior after that insane thing she had to do. Now we get the, the real theory of the case finally stated, I think, at a little more length. So why don't you read 24 for

0:40:30 Lydia: Getting into post -production now. The fact is that Lively embarked on a hostile takeover of the production, strong -arming Sony into blessing her with ultimate control. As they became increasingly frantic and unsettled by the usurpation of their roles, Baldoni remained resolute that they continue to take the, quote, high road and be proud of the, beautiful baby they had all made together. Notwithstanding, Lively waged war on Baldoni, weaponizing innocuous interactions for May and June 2023, long before there was any tension between them. That's

0:40:31 Thomas: Us? We go. Hmm?

0:41:02 Lydia: Not true.

0:41:02 Thomas: What? What? Was the, back to the timeline. Hold on.

0:41:06 Lydia: All lot of stuff was in May.

0:41:08 Thomas: I mean this is just this is just silly weaponizing interactions from man june 2023 no that's when all the stuff happened and it says long before there's any tension between them so from her perspective look I how he could think that well it's if he's truly dense could Think that everything went great in may and june excuse from his perspective the tension didn't come till later but that's because it didn't Come until she realized she had to go back to filming with him so like may and June happens a bunch of complaints happen then the strike happens production halts june 27th just from the timeline uh october blake lively texts a female cast member saying she's dreading returning to filming and so yeah once it becomes clear that filming is going to start back up she's got a whole legal team and a list and then all that and so I guess he could say from his perspective no nothing was wrong when I was was just doing sexual harassment it was great everyone loved it and then it was only when she was going to have to come back and be sexually harassed that she had a problem that very strong not very strong of an argument it even says it only after the writer's strike it ended and filming was set to resume did lively express any concern about returning to set when else

0:42:22 Thomas: Would she do so she has to she hasto express concern about return to set day one of of the strike what it's just setting up a bunch of nothings like these aren't good arguments all this importantly laid out their grand conspiracy theory of the case which is that she wanted full control and the only way she could do that was to have them do a bunch a weird creepy shit complain about it have other people on the set complain about have objectively that stuff happen and they've already confirmed it in their own complaint have her have to get and ryan reynolds and like make them agree to this insane document that every lawyer's told us they cannot believe they signed because that must mean there's some there there and that's what a what a brilliant plan all so that she could get the final edit nonsense I

0:43:10 Lydia: This is from Justin Baldoni to various folks on the Dream Team group chat. Curious if you guys have peeked at her cut and if anything has changed. Editor number two says, I've just been told that we are not permitted to look. Says, ha ha, wow, when did that happen? Editor one, as per Sony, editor two, this evening, through blank. Baldomi, wow. OK, then the editors and director isn't. Aren't allowed to look at an actress's cut. Got it. Well, here we go. We will keep taking the high road.

0:43:40 Thomas: Don't know what this is I'll be honest with you I don'T get it but the fact that it's sony okay the fact it says editor one and editor two both saying that and it says this this evening through, yeah, and then blanks it.

0:43:49 Lydia: Yeah, the through blank. Yeah. Well because it's the person from Sony, the rep from Sony that told them, I think.

0:43:56 Thomas: We don't know when this is no timestamps. Also just don't, I don't really get it though, because what understanding, correct me if I've got something wrong. I thought they were kind of both doing a cut and then Sony was going to pick or something.

0:44:09 Lydia: I think That's an area of debate, it seems. Know if we want to get too deep into this, but they screenings to test demos and stuff like that. Blake's didn't do as well as Justin's. And then she did a rework and got a second bite at the apple, basically. And it still wasn't as good as Justin'S take, according to some of those items in the focus group.

0:44:30 Thomas: I don't think this this is her getting the final cut. And then Sony saying you don't get to see it because it says, have you peeked at her cut? If anything has changed, it I guess I need more information on this. But I I DON'T really see what this demonstrates other than that. There seems like there's a difference of opinion and she wanted to do an edit. And that's what happened. I don't really like this.

0:44:52 Thomas: This seems like unrelated here. Here's the only way this is related to me. And I forget if I've said this, I could see based all she said, her really not liking his way he did this movie. I mean, somebody who is doing this like feminist woman's story movie thing and she in her view, it's a sexual harasser who actually sucks and is doing all this weird stuff and like harassing people like is not a safe person. Like, if that's her view, I could see her being like, I don't want this guy. Yeah.

0:45:22 Lydia: By his own admission, before they started filming the movie, that he would probably not be directing it because it deserved a female voice to helm it.

0:45:30 Thomas: And beyond that, maybe she just genuinely saw what he did in the cut and was like, Like, I don't like this, you know, and and she convinced Sony to let her take a shot at it, that just sounds like how are the fucking business works? He can he can complain. He can not like it. I don'T see how it's in any way connected to like allegation. She's a big celebrity. She could have gotten this if she wanted it.

0:45:53 Lydia: Is to Sony, not to Blake. I mean, people are going to like, their shot kind of thing. And so now take it up with Sony if you don't like it.

0:45:59 Thomas: Well, and it sounds like Sony is the one who said they can't look at it for some reason. I still don't get what that is, but that we don't have any proof that that's her saying that. Don't know. I don'T really get this. We get back to the well, it was all her and it was her fault and we get a few more. We're like repeating the tag team text, which, again, New York Times didn't have. This is just Melissa Nathan. And it's well, I think we already saw some of this because it says, like, come on, we had nothing to do with that. This is crazy. She doesn't have a good reputation. This is organic stuff. So, I mean, it's nothing. It's just them being pre -defensive. That's them asserting that. And I'll again, say it again. I'm still open to idea the idea that maybe they didn't have to do any of this. And it's like Internet is so sexist that it just decided to do that. Like, that's I'm open to that. You'd need to see evidence, though, because with the evidence we have, which is that they were planning the smear campaign and they talked about it and they talking about some really suspicious shit about this Jed Wallace and everything.

0:46:52 Lydia: And they edited an entire article for for one

0:46:55 Thomas: Yeah, like like we have a lot of really, really suspicious sit. So in my mind, just not as a matter of law, but just if I were to try to figure out what I believe, based on what I are, the evidence, we already have. I would need a lot of convincing that they didn't do a smear campaign, not because they have the burden, but because the evidence has already showed overwhelmingly that they were planning that and talked about it and and also did it in some ways. So like I but maybe like maybe they never actually maybe it was misunderstanding or maybe it is selective texts and they never Actually went forward with it and it just happened to like fall in their laps like okay I mean it's possible but I feel like that's that's such a fact dependent claim at this point. That you'd a jury is going to have to talk about that. Or, you know,

0:46:56 Lydia: Of the newspapers. Yeah. Yeah.

0:47:35 Thomas: I guess if you do discovery and like the case isn't there, then I guess she would have to like settle or something or, you Know, but like I, from what we have, we have a lot, a lot of smoke. Well we got through I eight paragraphs if it's 17 through 24 always this was a lot I mean honestly this this was like he wasn't doing great before this it's not as though the complaint was doing great but this episode really in particular had Had so many just devastatingly bad, like his own complaint was devastating to him in this one.

0:48:11 Lydia: Us. Hmm. Yeah.

0:48:12 Thomas: Got the birthing video. That's just such a devastating lie to tell. Like there's, not going to lie to you. I don' t know how else to say this. There's definitely places where had he just not replied, I mean, it wouldn't have been good because I think then in you're just like, well, I guess it it must must be true if he had no response. But the same time, if your reply to the birthing video is to just try this, like false gaslighting lie.

0:48:34 Thomas: And that was like a bunch of these things. Trailer breastfeeding one pumping one is that's gotta be, I mean, again, again, that betrays more than just not even saying it. Like if your answer is yes, this other guy can go into your trailer whenever he wants, because one time I didn't go into your trailer after you said I'm pumping in my trailer. It's just nothing. It's so, I think perhaps so far created, just like the most devastating to his credibility, to their credibility, collection of bullshit. There's some lies where it's like, you'd be better off just not even telling them because it's so not credible.

0:49:11 Lydia: But wouldn't know it looking at certain corners of the internet like like some of these things are still holding strong and it's insane to me I don't understand how it can be portrayed in that light like thing I value you is the way that you like break things down in such a like precise logical way and ask questions in such an insightful way that we really can kind of get to the crux of the issue here and I think when you do that it's very clear that this stuff is just ridiculous you're

0:49:15 Thomas: Of course. Of course. Appreciate that. Yeah. Not to be undersold is the amount that they just say the New York Times said stuff that they didn't. Like, in any other complaint, that would be devastating you and it is devastating in this complaint to their own case like you almost don't notice it because all the other stuff is so stupid but the complaint is against the New York Times like that's who it's against for them to just say and they said it and they didn't say it is that is embarrassing harassing.

0:50:06 Lydia: -hmm well also really rich in a defamation suit that you're going to like make up what the person that you're saying defamed you is saying like that that's insane I

0:50:15 Thomas: Oh boy. Maybe my favorite is the retaliation is fine. If like, stopped harassing them for like a certain cool down period, that's one of my favorites. If I'm totally cool for some weeks, then I can retaliate. It's like, why would you think that's a good point? So bad. All right. Well, yeah, a major blow to their credibility in my mind.

0:50:39 Thomas: Like get that lawyers, I guess, do the thing where it's like well, well, yeah, they're a totally lying, terrible argument here, but we can just kind of like move on from that once it's proven wrong. I know I hate it. I hate it. You can't, sorry, you can't do that. Like that's not a regular people thing. That's a lawyer thing. I get it. And, you in some ways it's born of necessity because both sides are doing that all the time. So like, you can't just disqualify one side because then you disqualified both of them. And then it's like, well, I guess I have to pick a side. I get that. I I get that, but there's a, I mean, there's a line. I feel like there's a range of it. And I feel like there are times when, you yeah, you might be making a bad argument here, but usually, you in my very limited experience, that'S admittedly, also more often like a legal argument where you're trying to stretch like the fact, oh no, actually that case isn't dispositive because of this. And maybe you're trying to do that. Like the legal interpretation and maybe both sides kind of know like, you know, it's kind of a reach. It's not usually, I don't think, I mean, it's not usually just so about the facts and making arguments that are so bad they actually undermine case that you've made them. The feels like a different thing to me and maybe I'm wrong and I know I'm sensitive, more sensitive to any sort of lying than most folks, but like this is so bad. Had.

0:50:48 Lydia: I hate it so much. Hmm, look

0:51:49 Thomas: Nearly halfway through. So if you'd right, well, thank you all so much for listening. If you stuck with us through this, like, on one hand, I wouldn't blame people for just quitting because this is so stupid. The complaint is so bad and tedious and terrible. On the other hand, if you are staying, we appreciate you so much. And we're like even closer for gone through this together all of us the three of us me lydia and the listener the one listener yeah try it is a trauma bond yeah so we really appreciate you and hey it's just the three us now thanks we awesome uh tell your friends maybe we can you know just have four people all right thanks for listening thanks patrons we'll see you next time

0:51:51 Lydia: At us go. Yeah it's a trauma bond Yeah.

0:52:50 Thomas: I was was just doing sexual harassment it was great everyone loved it and