Drinking from the Firehose of Fascism

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:00 Clip: You must never, ever give up or give in. You must keep the faith and keep your eyes on the prize. That is your calling. That is you mission. That is moral obligation. That is mandate. Get out there and do it. Get in the way. Change happens because people care. The people have the power to make this life free and beautiful. To make this live a wonderful adventure.

0:00:38 Clip: I still believe with all my heart, America can be a place where no child is left hungry, no community is left behind, and no one gets told they don't belong. Country is always worth it.

0:00:58 Thomas: And welcome to opening arguments this is episode 1125. I'm your host, Thomas Smith, that over there is real-life attorney still on a, uh, would you call it a asylum? No, we don't have that anymore. Yes.

0:01:11 Matt: Storm escape. I have escaped a Boston snowstorms. Yeah, that's right. Of course, I was just thinking about Rush Limbaugh because I can't just take a vacation. I have to think about Rush Limbaugh for some reason.

0:01:13 Thomas: Storm refugee how's you and no one else there's that that I forget who it was but they really nailed it where someone was like you know no one no one cares about Rush Limbaugh anymore no one on the right gives a shit nobody could cause all all people their whole lives they just contribute garbage and hate and nothing and making people mad and there's no like memorable legacy. Nobody, you know, it's, and no

0:01:31 Matt: It's true. Yeah. I think we can agree that he far too late. I do think there was one good idea that Rush Limbaugh had. It was wrong, wrong place, wrong time, wrong subject. But do you remember out?

0:01:51 Thomas: Doing drugs, Yeah.

0:01:55 Matt: Yeah. Don't know if you ever listened to him, but I remember sometimes I used to love AM radio, but he used to introduce his show by talking about how it's America held hostage, you know, day 320, you know held hostage by Bill Clinton, a centrist Democrat who was trying to to give people healthcare. Will say this is America held hostage day 25. We've made it. We're here to day 25 week.

0:01:57 Thomas: Parents did. Oh God. Yeah actually happening for real though.

0:02:16 Matt: It's actually happening and, and by a non -elected official too. Of course that takes more than one guy, but one guy's doing a lot.

0:02:19 Thomas: His 20-year-old racist, uh, did call it though I'm gonna I'm gonna take a little credit for like when that racist they let him go and that that very day I was like I'm surprised that happened I feel like they don't need to do that anymore but don't tell them and then like the next day they're like oh wait we just remembered we don't need to care about racism anymore and then they hired him back they literally hired him back.

0:02:39 Matt: Vance. JD Vance stepped up for him. You know, just poor kid was just misguided.

0:02:48 Thomas: The guy was literally spouting hatred toward Indian people. J.D. Vance married to an Indian woman. Like, yeah, but, you know, it's incredible. No morals, these people.

0:03:00 Matt: The The youthful indiscretions of four months ago. Yeah. Anyway, so we're going to talk about some actually genuinely good things that are happening. I want to spotlight some some superheroes, some people are doing their right things in tough times. And, of course, we have to talk abut some of the bad news, too. And then I got kind of a fun follow -up footnote on a story that's just, I'm trying to think how to say it. But I've got a fun follow -up footnote.

0:03:21 Thomas: It's not fun.

0:03:22 Matt: No, I guess it's, no, it's true.

0:03:23 Thomas: Fun footnote on a really stupid

0:03:24 Matt: It's a very stupid thing, but it's so stupid that it's not worth a segment and it's not worth our time, really. But it just, I was interested in the legal, actual mechanics of this thing. So we'll talk about it.

0:03:25 Thomas: Thing. How about that? Yeah. All right. Well, get to it. The news hose giveth and the news hose only givet. There's no taketh away. It's just just givest. So we'll have to get to It.

0:03:42 Matt: Does not stop.

0:03:43 Thomas: After this break, hey, please support the show patreon.com/law and thank you to all the supporters. Please support the show patreon.com/law every day that goes by is another day that the mainstream media fails us in every single way and uh just hope folks can support independent journalists whoever they may be who are actually telling the truth in an objective way uh not a both sides bullshitty way because that's what got us here so thanks so much to those who support us and after this break we will get to all the news hoes all right release the hoes matt what's happening.

0:04:21 Matt: Just doused in it here. Let's start with a quick update to Wednesday's show with Liz. We've got breaking news from just a few hours ago that, was speculating this memo we're discussing from Ibo Bové, which was instructing the SDNY to dismiss the case against Eric Adams. She was saying this really is a test for Danielle Sassoon, who is the sort of interim SDNY chief. She's only 38, I just found out, which is really impressive given what this job is.

0:04:46 Matt: I mean, as Liz was telling us, it's the sovereign district. Seems like she might fit the profile of somebody who'd be willing to go along with Trump orders. She was a Scalia clerk. She's dedicated federalist society. She's got integrity because she's in this position that every prosecutor wants. And she just resigned a few hours ago rather than carry out Emile Beauvais' order to dismiss the case.

0:05:06 Thomas: You good for her.

0:05:06 Matt: So they're going to bring in some other shithead to do it.

0:05:09 Thomas: Yeah. Does that accomplish anything? I know it seems like a good deal, but was she, you probably not long for this world anyway, in terms of that position? Because I just feel like our message has been stay and fight for a lot of this, but sometimes that's not the right move. You know, it really depends depends on the context. Does this seem like the right move in this context to you?

0:05:19 Matt: I think so. I mean, I wouldn't want to have have to live knowing that I had done this stupid illegal thing. It's a case that she believed in. Like Liz was telling us, you know, she personally filed stuff in her name into this case, which is unusual for the acting U.S. attorney. You Know, it's integrity and it's good to see.

0:05:43 Thomas: To say nothing of lawyers aren't supposed to just do unethical stuff, right? Like I know it's weird to say, but like there is some amount of professional responsibility to be like, oh, I'm not signing my name to this. This is called extortion. What we're doing here, we're doing a public, you extortion racket and I'm not going to legitimize it.

0:06:02 Matt: I'm not going to put the mayor of New York on a leash for Donald Trump. That's not my job. You Know. Good for her and wish her well. I somebody I usually would think I'd be aligned with, but these are strange times. So I to move on to a sort of theme that's been developing of people who have been told that they're fired who have declined to leave, which is a good thing at this point, because the Trump administration, as we've been talking about, has just been firing people all over the place, including people that has absolutely no legal authority to fire.

0:06:29 Matt: And I appreciated someone on Blue Sky recently did an edit of a story about this. This is Hampton Delliger, the head of the Office of Special Counsel. And the media is just too quick to pick the burden on the person who's been wrongfully fired by saying that he's actually been fired and that now he's suing to get his job back. That's not it. He was not fired.

0:06:48 Matt: It's just not. He's still got the job.

0:06:46 Thomas: Point. Yeah, yeah. If I were to say you're fired, the media wouldn't be like, well, Thomas did fire him. I mean, like, no, that's he's not fired. Actually, Thomas just said a thing.

0:07:02 Matt: Some more steps. And there's also things to review. And in this case, Office of special counsel, as the name would suggest, it's a pretty important important job. They protect whistleblowers in the federal government. They investigate personnel issues. Just the kind of job that Trump wants to be sure he can fill with a loyalist so that they can protect all the stuff they want to do. And because of that, 5 U.S.C. 1211, the Office of Special Counsel can only be removed as chief counsel for inefficiency, neglect of duty, or malfeasance in office. And they didn't even try to allege any of that, which has really been a theme in these firings. They're not even saying why they did it. They're just saying, you're done. So he, of course, immediately went to court. And D .C. Judge Amy Burnham Jackson, who's come up several times on this show recently, immediately entered an administrative stay. And DOJ tried to appeal that. There's actually an interesting question we don't really need to get into right now about whether you can actually appeal an administrative stay of this kind. And the D.C. Circuit said they actually couldn't do it. But then she went ahead and entered a full temporary restraining order to keep Hampton Delger in his job, which which is the right thing because it's just, the law is obviously on his side. This was an illegal firing and he should not have to leave. So good on him for doing that.

0:08:04 Thomas: I'm still stuck on that point, which is a very good one, which has yet another way the media is just doing his work for him, doing Trump's work for reporting on it as though he was fired when he wasn't. That's not the way to do it. I don't even think of that.

0:08:16 Matt: Special shout out to Blue Sky user Brad Johnson at ClimateBrad. Did a fix, an actual red line edit of the Huffington Post and pointed out that things like a federal official who was in charge of overseeing whistleblower complaints should be is in charge, arguing his firing was unlawful, should be attempted firing was unlawfull, that he received an email purporting to fire him rather than just firing him, right? I mean, these are simple things the media can do. It's not that hard.

0:08:42 Thomas: It's and it's not even again that's not like oh take the side of the resistance that's that's accurate reporting. That's more accurate. Again I fired Donald Trump everybody. I fired him. Start reporting. Well he's fired. Is he gonna stay? I I don't know. I'm not sure if he'll stay.

0:08:49 Matt: It's plainly illegal. Yeah, exactly. Right. He going to respond to this obvious firing by Thomas Smith? Oh. Actually, while I'm on it, actually, I wanted to mention The Guardian, exceptional work. When asked Elon Musk about how it is that he could not have a conflict of interest when he's gutting agencies left and right and making funding decisions when he receives billions of dollars in federal contracts. And he said, it's the people at SpaceX or something. It's not me that's filing those contracts, right? And they said, it's the people at SpaceX or something, said Musk, the founder, chief executive, chief engineer, and chair of SpaceX. Such good writing.

0:09:01 Thomas: Yeah. See how you like it. Okay. Yeah.

0:09:33 Matt: That's how you do it. You just remind everybody who he is. Not that hard, media. Hampton Dillinger is not fired and continues to not be fired. And I think based on the very, very simple law that was specifically written to protect the special counsel because they knew the presidents would try to get up to this thing, I think he's going to be okay. Okay. Assuming that this continues the way it is. Similarly, the inspectors general we've been talking about, you remember he fired 17 of them in major agencies. These were not like backwater inspectors, general. These weren't in all of the major agencies, same deal. Yeah. I was saying it's the same thing.

0:09:46 Thomas: This exact thing. Yeah. Now, should we not do the thing we're just saying? Did he fire them or should we say tried to? Yeah.

0:10:10 Matt: Yeah. So see, there we go. You caught me doing it.

0:10:12 Thomas: Yeah. It's a tough one. It's tricky.

0:10:14 Matt: It's because it's so much in our mindset that you've read that, that they were fired. And as it is, they can only be fired under 5 U .S .C. 403b, which requires that the president communicate in writing the reasons for removal to Congress 30 days before he does it. It's just a very clear blackwater requirement. I don't see how you can possibly see it another way. Way. It took them a little while, but eight of the IGs filed suit on Wednesday, just the 12th, and the suit's looking pretty good. I would expect that we're going to have a similar result from that because, again, the Trump administration is just taking the position that it can do whatever it wants, fire whoever it wants. Hold back money whenever it wants to. Steal money when it wants to, as we'll talk about in a minute. So, yeah, that's looking promising. Also, shout USAID, who issued his oversight report this week. As you can imagine, it was a very unusual oversight report

0:11:04 Thomas: I don't see anything anymore. I don't know what I'm sighting over.

0:11:07 Matt: Am I looking at? Yeah. This was dated February 10th, and it's entitled, I will link to it, but Oversight of USAid -Funded Humanitarian Assistance Programming Impacted by Staffing Reductions and Pause on Foreign Assistance. That is quite a euphemism, considering that USAID has been completely gutted. Uh, the, just wanted to commend the exceptional work of this report. It's only six pages long. It's very much to the point, pointing out something very, very important that every taxpayer should know, which is that there are 500 ,000 metric tons of food that are going to be spoiled that we paid for, that we're going to have to pay a lot more for if we can't get them to where they're supposed to go.

0:11:43 Thomas: It was $500 million, wasn't it? I think it was half a billion.

0:11:47 Matt: Million. That's right. Yeah. Right. He's doing exactly what an inspector general is supposed to do, pointing out actual waste in a government agency. Right. And if they cared about waste, this is the kind of thing they'd be doing is more inspectors general, not fewer of them. So wanted to point out good work here.

0:12:03 Thomas: I think what really kills me, and I know we all know this, but it's just worth saying is the CFPB, you know, it's like trying to gut something that's, again, if you do the math, they're like, ah, you knows, something million dollars return to the taxpayer. Pair, it's like $10 a person and it saves a gajillion dollars in banks effing us over, which is something, again, that both sides allegedly care about. And I actually believe that a lot of Trump voters, a lot of Trump supporters do have, at least in their minds, they do have that economic populism going. Like they do think they're doing that. And this is directly that. Like nothing but good. Nothing but good, all of it. Does is take very little money to make more money back in the form of like stopping banks from ripping us off. It couldn't be more economically populist. And yet here it is. That's what's happening. They're

0:12:25 Matt: And predatory. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

0:12:59 Thomas: Getting it. They'RE trying to.

0:12:59 Matt: And they've developed this narrative that it's just making it too hard for banks and good riddance. And yeah, that's a tough one, the CFPB. Couple other things. The American Bar Association, which doesn't usually get involved with politics very much, issued a very strong statement in support of the rule of law. You know you're really getting somewhere when the ABA has to remind everybody that the law exists.

0:13:16 Thomas: Also the American physicists association was like, we're, I guess we'll say it. Gravity is real. I don't know. Weird thing for us to I have to say. We thought that was kind of, we took it for granted.

0:13:24 Matt: Please to respect gravity. Yes. The ABA talking about, obviously, everything that's going on with Doge and just all of the insanity that's everywhere right now. We support Our courts who are treating these cases with the urgency they required. Americans know there is a right way and a wrong way to proceed. What is being done is not the right way to pursue the change that is sought in our system of government. These actions do not make America stronger. They make us weaker. It goes on from there. Uh again though aba not usually it's a reasonably conservative organization and its current president is like a you know big corporate wire this mean this is this is good it's it's the right kind of thing and it's more than democrats are saying as a body so

0:14:03 Thomas: I don't know about that, but I do think that it's too little too late in my opinion. I think that they've long had the, you know, not qualified rating that they do, but it, I think, that too, you the way they've hacked the system is by exploiting the fact that our reactions, or at least these institutions' reactions, max out. And they max out in things that are are not very like effective to normal people. Normal people are like, well, you know, oh, this is unlawful. Like, what does that mean? I don't, that's not strong enough, you know? Also another thing that I've been thinking about when that happened was like how many of our like institutions, uh, and I think a of people just their, default kind of picture and conception of objectivity is both sides ism is like staying out of it, you You know, and that is a real loophole that they've exploited because if they start ruining things, but they're doing it in a quote unquote, a you partisan lens, then everything just gets framed as like, well, it's left versus right. And you got to stay above the fray, but then you retreat more and more from what is objective fact. You know like if that's your

0:15:02 Thomas: Barometer and especially if you're any sort of organization like the ABA whose job it should be to sort of preserve the norms in a way, you You know, like it just the more we give in to this idea that being apolitical, being staying above it is objective somehow. It's not. It's non -objective.

0:15:20 Matt: That it's like a moral thing for them like it it's you're being immoral if you're not showing both sides at all times and I I can't take it anymore I'm right a few more things uh before we get on to the less good things uh cdc website has been restored that was a big one there was a bunch of uh that was considered to be I guess too woke that was on the CDC website that had to do with very important medical matters that people were not able to access. Was a good one. We did have the first finding. Mean, this is kind of a mixed one here, but Judge McConnell in Rhode Island has found that the Trump administration is in violation of a court order for the first time. And it will not be the last time, but it's the first one. And this is as to freeze. The And Judge McConnell is very clear in his decision. I McConnell'S decision was on Jan 31st and had to issue this order on february 10th. That is a very long long time to not be respecting a court order. He makes the point that the defendants have come back and tried to argue that they're just looking for fraud, that, you know, the reason that they are still freezing some of these funds and not giving out the money is now plea they're trying to read out fraud, but the freezes in effect now were a result of the broad categorical order, not a specific finding of possible fraud. So did you hear me the first time, basically? And this is the way to come back when the government doesn't do these things. We'll see what happens from here. But I will say that after this order, the NIH did finally acknowledge that it did not have the right to withhold funds because it was trying to withhold something like a limit to 15 % of indirect funds. It was trying To make sure that something like $4 billion was not going to be paid out completely illegal. And it had to acknowledge that that was no longer something they could do. Again, 12 days after a court order, but they did acknowledge it. Small progress, maybe some things are going to start to move forward. Now, what was concerning after that time was J.D. Vance and others responding

0:17:03 Matt: To this and saying that this is a bad judge, that this is somebody who's standing in the way of the president's agenda. And I went back, I don't remember this, but back in 2021, J. Vance was on Jack Murphy's podcast. And I think Jack Murphy has been pretty thoroughly, I Don't know, is he still around? He was an MRI type.

0:17:18 Thomas: I don't know who that is. I'm sorry.

0:17:20 Matt: Oh, you don't need to. He's, I mean, we've already talked about Rush Limbaugh. Talk about him. I sent you a clip here, and it's kind of striking. If you hear the way that J.D. Vance is talking, I mean, this is four years ago, and he's kind OF laying it right out there about how he feels. This

0:17:33 Thomas: Really? Seemed like so much of J .D. Vance's shtick has been convenience. Um but maybe maybe I'm wrong that maybe it's it has it's been maybe he's been more consistent than I thought let's see uh

0:17:42 Matt: Does have some things that he wants, and they're not good.

0:17:45 Clip: Powerful chief executive, a very powerful president. But if he can't even fire the people in his own administration, like, is this really a successful Republic? So, so a lot of concerns that we should basically eliminate the administrative And I'm sympathetic to that project, but another option is that we should just seize the administrative state for our own purposes. We should fire all of the people. I think Trump is going to run again in 2024. I think he'll probably win again in 2024, and he'll win by a margin such that he will be the president of the United States in January of 2025. I think that what Trump should do, if I was giving him one piece of advice, fire every every single mid -level bureaucrat, every civil servant in the administrative state, replace them with our people. And when the courts, because you will get taken to court, and then when the court stop you, stand before the country like Andrew Jackson did and say, the chief justice has made his ruling, now let him enforce it. Because this is, I think, a constitutional level crisis. If we continue to let bureaucrats control the entire country, even when Republicans win elections, then we've lost, we've just permanently lost, we've permanently given up and

0:18:16 Thomas: I called that wow all right well

0:18:57 Matt: It turns out he meant that. Yeah, it's right there.

0:18:58 Thomas: Holy shit matt wow that is wow yeah

0:19:02 Matt: Yeah. And he posted this just a few days ago after that ruling I was just telling you about. And he said, essentially, the judge can't tell a general what to do. He can't tell a prosecutor what to do, why can't he tell the president?

0:19:12 Thomas: But a judge judge can though. Am I crazy? That's what judges do. This stupid, obviously lying mindset does a judge do?

0:19:21 Matt: Is a Yale law graduate. He knows that a judge can step in if a prosecutor is being unethical or immoral or trying to dismiss a case for corrupt reasons, right?

0:19:29 Thomas: So stupid. He's a liar. So is a judge's job? Do the judges only rule over what? Lawyer? What does it mean in this mindset to be a judge? He's trying to make they're like well it's the judicial branch they only do judge things but thing judges do is judge everyone else like they otherwise what are they doing it's like saying an NHL referee can't tell any like NHL players what to do they're refs I was like yeah but who do they referee free.

0:19:45 Matt: Power over the president, that's for sure. Else is going to tell them? Yeah.

0:20:03 Thomas: Yeah. What am I crazy? That's what he's saying, isn't it?

0:20:05 Matt: Yeah. And this clip he's saying that the president should have absolutely full authority to dismantle something that congress created and funded which is now what he's doing so it's pretty consistent I think that he's been part of this project for a long time I think he's there for a reason too and you know it's it's disturbing to see a lawyer of that education on that level and somebody who's been in the senate who knows how these things work act like he doesn't yeah

0:20:26 Thomas: The crazy thing is they have Congress anyway, but they just won't. It's just not fast enough for Trump. And Trump likes to look like he's just in control of everything. And why not? If you can have a constitutional crisis along the way, why not do that? It's the mindset is if Republicans win elections, they ought to be able to do literally anything they want. It's a a constitutional crisis but there's obviously so much wrong with it um a way though it's like if we can win elections and utilize some of what they've done to actually do good things then that might just be what it is now because power once power gets seized by the executive branch it never goes away yeah they well

0:20:38 Matt: Well the real constitutional crisis is that these people have jobs you see that's what he just said so That's it. Yeah. Raw power. It's naked, unmasked politics. Here we are.

0:21:10 Thomas: News as we're recording, literally just saw a New York Times headline that Eric Adams is going to allow ice into Rikers, I believe is what I saw. I just just saw it. So. So, yeah, there we go. There's that shoe that I would do. We even wait for it to drop. It was like the shoe was there the whole time.

0:21:25 Matt: And Eric Adams is acting like Trump, too, because there is, as we discussed with Liz, there's a law that does not allow them to honor detainers, except in certain circumstances. So I'll have to look into that. But of course, it sounds like he's just going to try to ignore city councils on law that the previous mayor signed. No surprise there. Discussing. It's right there.

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0:23:10 Matt: Want to get to a patron question from Shad Riley, who asks about this executive order that was just signed the other day, in which Trump is saying that they're going to put a 180-day pause on the enforcement of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, because why would you want to enforce the Foreign Corruct Practices Act? This is something that conservatives have been complaining about for a while, because it makes business harder abroad when the normal thing to do is to bribe people. Um been complaining a lot about how you just can't get anything done because we can't be corrupt in other countries so they're saying that this isn't a priority for the government anymore that they need to reevaluate how they're actually doing this and shadra was asking can he just not enforce a law I mean he's obviously choosing to not enforce a lot of other things so I was thinking back to the cole memo under obama in 2013 when you might remember uh Eric Holder said that they were no longer going to be enforcing some marijuana offenses at the

0:23:49 Thomas: All right. Right. Yeah.

0:23:59 Matt: Federal level and that they Were not going to prosecute states in any regard, but places where it's decriminalized or legalized. There was a lot of hubbub about that, of course, but that is absolutely the department's priorities. That's how they can set them. And if they want to say that we're no longer gonna, we're gonna prosecute simple marijuana possession, especially in places where It is legal at the state level, that's just a complete waste of our time and goes against the will of the states they can do that this is different this is saying we're just not going to enforce a federal law for 180 days so go ahead and be as corrupt as you want I guess for 180 um

0:24:32 Thomas: An interesting one. This is one that I think that I do remember people having a problem with from before the crazy time. So I think this is like perhaps not because like, OK, this is the kind of thing where China or whoever just gets in there and does do all the bribery and then we can't compete because they just do it. You in it for Trump? Is this just throwing the business community a bone kind of thing?

0:24:53 Matt: Something that they've wanted for a long time um are going to issue updated guidelines and policies I think there have been some questions raised about some gray areas it's not my specialty of course but uh doesn't look great especially in combination with some of the things they've been doing on behalf of big business. Another priority from the DOJ memo that was really concerning to me from February 5th, because, you know, again, DOJ has its own ability to set its priorities and to say what's important to us and what's not. In this February 5 memo, Pambande is making it eminently clear that immigration is what they care about, that they want to make sure that every possible immigration offense that can be criminally charged is criminally charged. And if you don't, then you have to explain yourself if you have the opportunity to do that. You know, kind of in the same way that after 9 -11, the entire purpose of DOJ and DHS was to find terrorism, right? And now they're looking for immigration. But in the course of that, they specifically state, I free resources to address more pressing priorities, which again are immigration, and end risks of further weaponization and abuses of prosecutorial discretion. So, you know something really good is coming. The Foreign Influence Task Force shall be disbanded. So this is kind of in a similar vein. Recourse to criminal charges under the Foreign Agents Registration Act shall be limited to instances of alleged conduct similar to more traditional espionage. So we've talked a number of times about the Foreign agents Registrations Act. Most recent time we talked about that.

0:26:10 Thomas: There's a lot. But when the Russians bought off Dave Rubin at all, I think that's that's one.

0:26:14 Matt: How could I forget?

0:26:14 Thomas: So does this enable more Russian buying off of our right wing media figures?

0:26:19 Matt: Right. And everybody else, you know, and people like Michael Flynn and all the other sort of soft power that Russia and China and other places have been trying to influence. Want a little bit to traditional espionage so I guess just like james bond stuff I don't know um you know foreign influence that that's how it's done now is

0:26:34 Thomas: But taking millions of dollars to launder Russian propaganda? That's not spy stuff. That's fine, I guess, apparently.

0:26:42 Matt: That's that's just media that's how we do media that'S no that'S that's not great at all

0:26:44 Thomas: That's very worrisome. Now, did you see, speaking of Pam Bondi, Matt, did you see this, world we live in, Matt? You Did see that she announced charges against somebody? Was that? And then it turned out what they meant was they're just civilly suing somebody, which is like a very different, thing.

0:27:00 Matt: Really wanted to say they're going after Letitia James. Then this is the beginning of something we've been talking about, that they're going to start to go, this is, I think that's sort of the opening of the seal here, but starting to go after sanctuary jurisdictions and after jurisdictions that don't work enough in their view with DHS and with the immigration authorities. And so this one's about the new York driver licensing law that does not allow the DMV in New York to share information with ICE, which is standard in any state, including Massachusetts and Vermont and other places, where you can get a state ID or driver's privilege card of some kind, matter your immigration status. And I think that's a really important thing that people should be able to do. Of the deals that you make in these universally in the states is that if we're going to give you something like this, where we're not going to hand over any of the data that you give us, any of the documentation you provide. So if all you're able to provide for your ID as a foreign foreign passport, right? They wanted to be able to say that they filed charges. And I, as I've been predicting, I think for a little while now, I think there will be criminal charges at

0:27:55 Matt: Some point against some state prosecutor or attorney general.

0:27:57 Thomas: So do think you that was intentional then? Because I looked at that as yet another bit of incompetence, like not not knowing the difference, but maybe that's intentional. I don't know, though. That's that's pretty dumb. Saying we're filing charges but it's actually just a lawsuit like

0:28:12 Matt: I think it was for Fox news. I think it was just for the media to be Able to say That, you Know, they're going hard on these sanctuary jurisdictions, but be following that one. I haven't had a chance to look look at the complaint yet. But that's yeah, very much the direction though. And as I said, if immigration is your priority, then that's what you're going to see everywhere.

0:28:17 Thomas: Maybe you're right like the amount of different that that is though is pretty astounding like the how irresponsible it is for the head of justice in of the whole country you know like the captain announcing something that's charges when it's actually suing somebody which is like that's quite alarming like if if you know if somebody Somebody like, hey, I'm going to sue you saying for what you did. I'm gonna sue you. It's like, okay, well, that sucks. But like, I recognize that that's a case that maybe I can, if someone's prosecuting you for something you said, that's fascism squared, you know, and so like, kind over the difference there and allowing people to not know whether you're announcing like fascist police state action against something versus, you a lawsuit, which sucks, but it's like not, you know, that's like still within the realm of like, not a fascist dictatorship. You know, just allowing people, you don't have to be confused on that is so irresponsible.

0:29:14 Matt: Mean, one of the most important things about being a lawyer is being careful with your words and making sure that you're saying the thing you mean to say.

0:29:20 Thomas: Exactly why I'm not one, Matt.

0:29:23 Matt: It's one of my favorite parts of being a lawyer. I think this is very intentional. I think they want to normalize the idea of charges against state officials. And I think that's something we're going to start to see.

0:29:32 Thomas: I think you might be right, actually. Actually, gosh, I don't know which is more scary. Actually, I do. That is more scarier. I was actually rooting for it to be incompetence, Matt, because that is less scary than that. But I think you're right.

0:29:34 Matt: That's my take on that.

0:29:43 Thomas: I think your right about that one.

0:29:42 Matt: Just, I mean, I don't know if you've been seeing this, but they're trying to reroute the top officials who would otherwise quit, including, I just saw that the head of DOJ's tax enforcement, after 40 years, just stepped down because they were going to put him on like a sanctuary city task force. They're trying to just get all the most qualified people over there. And that's what they're offering them instead of resignation to get out of their jobs. And And that's very concerning. If DOJ is turning its barrels on sanctuary cities, that's really how it looks. Wanted to continue on our theme of lawyers. Fascism is not possible without lawyers, by introducing people to the new lawyers of Doge, because as we discussed, Bill McGinley, who was supposed to be White House counsel, was rerouted to Doge and didn't last three days. Pretty much as soon as he saw those lawsuits, he was out and back into the private sector. We talked about that at the time. And, know, the reporting on Doge has been around the kids, rightfully, because you've got a bunch of complete idiot, unqualified hackers kind through.

0:30:37 Thomas: Racist. Yeah. The racism is important, Matt. Don't forget that.

0:30:41 Matt: And that's right. It's a job skill. Qualification. That's right? At this point, I mean, we've just gotten word of just on Wednesday of a major, major major federal felony of taking back $80 million from New York City. Know, the Quabac, which there is a provision for Quabacs. I was looking at the Congressional Research Service report, always helpful for these things. It's a complex process. It's not that you just go steal the money from the commercial bank account where it's being held by New York.

0:31:07 Thomas: Can you be more specific on what? Because I saw these headlines. What money is this? How did this happen? I don' t totally get it.

0:31:14 Matt: This is not money exactly FEMA money. So there was a lot of lying going on about this program for shelters for recent migrants yeah it's not coming because remember that a few months ago conservatives were trying to say that drained the fema funds and now we weren't going to be able to do any kind of hurricane relief because we're spending money on migrants completely different pool of money um related but this is money that was going to new york so that they could house migrants and they were putting them in reasonable hotels uh musk was claiming they were going to luxury luxury accommodations, but the Roosevelt Hotel is not necessarily luxury. And from what I saw, they were paying about $156 a night, which is a really good deal in New York, but probably not the best hotel.

0:31:47 Thomas: New York? Come on.

0:31:48 Matt: Yeah. In New York City, that's an incredible deal. This money just disappeared from the account where it was being held. This was supposed to be helping to fund that because the federal government is on this kick, which we'll be talking about a little later in the show, about Train to Araragua, which has this uh gang it's kind of the new boogeyman it's now that ms -13 has been more or less dealt with in el salvador um know if you know about this but trump ally his own guantanamo bay essentially for gang members and has been holding on to we we showed that video a little while back of train Tren de Aragua is the new boogeyman. It is the thing that Trump is trying to say that Venezuelans are, right? Because he just revoked temporary protected status for Venezuela, that 300,000 people he's just made undocumented. Venezuela is in worse shape than it ever was, political enemies are still being persecuted and detained. The economy is in terrible shape and it does have a gang problem, but the United States is not, we're not taking in vast members of Venezuelan gang members. That's just not

0:32:07 Thomas: Wow. I that. Okay. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah . Yeah . . Yeah,

0:32:42 Matt: Happening.

0:32:42 Thomas: I wouldn't think.

0:32:43 Matt: Just to give you an example, ICE went out trying to find in Colorado, because you remember there's all those stories about Aurora, Colorado being overrun.

0:32:49 Thomas: They took over apartment complexes,

0:32:51 Matt: That's right. Yep. So that's right, changing the rules. Yeah.

0:32:51 Thomas: Matt. Running your HOAs. Know. Yeah.

0:32:57 Matt: Yeah. They sent 400 ICE agents throughout Colorado, mostly in Aurora and Denver, trying to find Tren de Aragua because there were all these right-wing conspiracy theories. Even though the mayor of Aurora came out and said, this is not a problem. We don't have a problem with Tren de Aragua here. And in all of that time, with 400 people on the ground, they found one gang member, one Tren de Aragua gang member.

0:33:16 Thomas: I'm going to go and doubt that that's even true. We'll see.

0:33:19 Matt: It's probably a Venezuelan guy with tattoos. Twos. And in the similar vein, the New York Post, which this is actually cited in one of their filings, DOJ's filings is New York Post article in support of the idea that this hotel, one of the hotels that they're calling the money back for was being overrun by this gang. Um, some kids basically that have formed like the 42nd street devils or something. And, you know, like some unaccompanied kids and are making some trouble for people, but it's not the same as the vicious killers of trains that are like, it's a very different thing. It's certainly not anything that would justify canceling this funding. There's a lot of completely illegal things happening, but it requires lawyers to do these illegal things. And they've got some high -powered lawyers, including a former Jones Day partner, James Burnham, now general counsel for Doge since McGinley left. And I wanted to name and shame a few of these people because this stuff can't happen without the sheen of law that they're going to put on it. You might not be surprised to learn that James Burnham clerked for Gorsuch and

0:33:28 Thomas: My God. Oh God. God.

0:34:13 Matt: Very much into deregulation. We know that from reading Neil Gorsuch's book. Also another kid, essentially, Jacob Altick, who just graduated from University of Michigan Law School in 2021 and then went to clerk for Naomi Rao in DC. He's a pretty hard -right MAGA. Is supposed to be starting his clerkship with Neil Gorsuch in the fall. So this is his, I guess, internship before he does that. I don't know. Then we've got an Alito clerk named Kenan Kamyak, has a shady history with blockchain, crypto -type stuff, and not a lot of other experience from what I could see. He did with clerk Alito and Roberts. So these are not necessarily the kind of people that have been dredged up from the places you might expect, that these are not Sidney Powell's and Rudy Giuliani's. These are people that have some experience, have some names behind them, have connections. And that's how these things get done. Now, I don't know that they're going to be able to justify a lot of what's happening right now in a way the courts are going to accept, but it is concerning. And I think it's worth knowing when lawyers like that are getting involved in things like this. So I just wanted to mention them. Yeah.

0:35:10 Thomas: Absolutely. I will say, though, that I like the story about the 400 ICE agents wasting their time forever looking for something that isn't there. And so now I'm wondering if our PSYOP is to start planting stories of gangs drug that are places that they... Hey, Vermont, they're taking over the... Yeah, I don't know, something. Or maybe let's... Yeah.

0:35:30 Thomas: Let's have have them hit a red state yeah oklahoma they're all over it and then just a bunch of ice agent idiots will be just like I mean I not sure I'm workshopping this does that create more trouble I don't know I feel like they're going to be terrorizing people somewhere I think this is a good plan I actually I for until I'm talked out of it this is my new plan I'm going to call the new york post yep

0:35:29 Matt: Malasca. Send them all to Alaska. Yeah, well, as long as you send them somewhere where there aren't Venezuelan immigrants, because

0:35:55 Thomas: Yep yep I'm gonna find the whitest place I can find all right I'm I'm going to go on the census data here.

0:35:57 Matt: The widest place with no it's yeah. Want to talk some outstanding from Pablo Manriquez. He's an independent immigration reporter. I'd love to have him on the show sometime soon. He actually produced the oil painting I've mentioned several times of Justice Sotomayor. That's on my wall. Yeah, super cool guy.

0:36:12 Thomas: That's awesome.

0:36:13 Matt: Substack is Migrant Insider. I'm a subscriber. I'd recommend that others do too. But he did some original reporting on this to talk to the families of a couple of the Venezuelans who've been sent to Guantanamo Bay. And I want to talk about that for a few minutes because the has picked up on some of this. I just wrote a very long substack piece about what it means that we're sending people from the interior of the United States to GuANTANAMO Bay. That said, my substack, Deport Nation. But these profiles of these men do not surprise me I have to say because we were promised that they were going to use guantanamo bay for the worst of the worst just as they did you know all this time holding right that or something of them had been the result of bounties that have been paid by their neighbors you know these were not necessarily people picked up on battlefields um you know guantanamo bay the most expensive car store project in the history of the world at one point about 13 million dollars per detainee, yeah as dropped money on pakistan yeah and afghanistan um I wanted to mention this because this is very important that we get this out

0:36:43 Thomas: As they did asterisk. No, they didn't. But yeah. Yeah.

0:36:58 Thomas: Wow. I think we could just pay people to not do terrorism. Like we could probably pay them one million each. Yeah. Yeah.

0:37:12 Matt: And that people understand what they're actually doing because because they've admitted it at this point. The original plan was to send high priority people that could not be deported. And Venezuela is just now this week starting to take a couple of plane loads back, but they have not for many, many, many years for obvious political reasons, accepted their own deportees back. So Trump's strategy for people from Venezuela, Cambodia, Vietnam, places like that, that just don't take their people back, as we've discussed before, was to set up this migrant operations center, which already existed and which Bill Clinton already used to house tens of thousands of people in the 90s that were fleeing from Haiti and Cuba. It has not been operational for a long time. From what I've read, it's not in good shape. The plan was that they were going to send the worst of the worst, gang members, people with terrible criminal records, and just people that they could not otherwise deport. And my thinking has been, and I continue to believe this, that they want to challenge the Supreme Court's 2001 ruling in Zadvydas v. Davis, which specifically says that you cannot hold somebody for more than six months in immigration detention if that they will be able to be deported. My point in saying all of this is that are two men that Pablo profiles. One of them is Luis Alberto Castillo Rivera. He's 23 years old he has never actually been in the United States as a free man. He turned himself in through the CBP One app and was trying to go through the asylum process, was being held during that time. Turns out that he is being sent to Guantanamo Bay, even though there's no allegations of gang membership that anybody's aware of, because he has an Air Jordan tattoo and a crown tattoo. Yep, just the tattoos are enough. And this is a longstanding thing with ICE and CBP that as soon as they see a tattoo on a Latino man, that that is a gang member. They've been pretty explicit about that uh but the other one that he profiles has a couple of tattoos as well no known gang membership or affiliations and no criminal record and public talked to both of their families um they both had asylum claims and that were denied and they are now facing removal so and as I'm saying it's very hard for to deport people to venezuela it is now looking to be more possible as trump is putting more pressure and trying to get friendly believe Maduro. There are going to be a lot of people that they can't report. And so the administration has acknowledged that it's not just the quote unquote high priority migrants that they're sending there, that they are just sending people with removal orders and especially Venezuelans. And that is very concerning. The whole thing was concerning.

0:37:13 Thomas: What? Yeah.

0:39:24 Matt: I mean, it was already very bad that we were normalizing the idea of sending people who are in the interior of the United States right now. And there's about 100 men down there right now, and we're normalizing the idea of sending them down to the place that we associate, the world associates with being a black hole of due process, of being a place where your rights go to die. Frankly, that we know of have died in the last 23 years. Made two promises about this, one being the high priority migrant thing, which has already been broken immediately. They also said that they're only going to be holding them at the Migrant Operations Center, which is the non -detention and camp side of it not the part where they were holding the alleged terrorists and they immediately sent uh 10 of those guys to the high detention center to the yeah the place where Khalid Sheikh Muhammad is yeah and

0:40:05 Thomas: Really? I didn't even hear about this. That seems pretty important matt to report on that maybe wow

0:40:11 Matt: Is it's very important and it is shocking I mean yeah okay let me take that back was I going to say it's shocking it's not shocking because I knew as soon as I heard they're going to start sending people to guantanamo bay that they were just going to start sending whoever they wanted to

0:40:25 Thomas: I'm gonna correct your correction it is shocking we need to stay shocked not surprised it is striking that's that is I actually am genuinely shocked by that I thought that they would at least keep that up longer but every time they do something like this every time the line is crossed and get less and less afraid. They are not afraid at all. I mean, the rehiring of the racist Doge guy really is a big deal. I think that might not seem like much in the scheme, but the right now and has been for several years is there's nothing they can't whitewash over. There's nothing they can put in their own terms, their own fake news terms to justify and get away with. And it's It's getting really

0:40:28 Matt: Right you're right no no you're absolutely right it is yeah yeah yeah

0:41:04 Thomas: Scary because Matt, I don't, I don't know what happens when they just take whoever they want and put them in Guantanamo. don'T know what happens.

0:41:13 Matt: That's exactly the point my piece on substack right now in deportation that's what I've been thinking about for the last few weeks because the very famous Neil Moeller poem that we all know starts with first they came for the communists but Neil Moeller skips a step because the the concentration camps after political opponents were filled with people that were considered to be habitual criminals, the people that society could generally agree should be detained somewhere out of sight. And these some of the least popular people you can meet.

0:41:39 Matt: Now, as I'm saying, I don't think that even among these hundred men, it sounds like quite a few of them are not even that, but they can say that they are that.

0:41:45 Thomas: That's the thing. They can say they are, they loosen our idea of, well, okay, I guess if it's, you know, okay. We can have this black site essentially where people have been tortured and have died because it's the bad people. And then all they have to do, and they know they they can do this. They can pick up whoever they want and just say they're the bad people because they know their propaganda is that strong. I don't know what the limit is here. I really don't.

0:42:03 Matt: And That's right, and my concern because you've broken the seal on relocating people from the United States to this place that's not in U .S. territory that we know is associated with human rights violations and indefinite detention. And it is very, very concerning. And I think we need to talk about it. I know that we're in the middle of a constitutional crisis, but I had to talk about it today. And a link to the Substack piece where I get into a lot more. But I'm very concerned. And I will say ACLU has already stepped up, of course, as they always do. And they're challenging access, the trying to get access to challenging the entire thing. Were three Venezuelans being held in ICE custody who preemptively sued and said, we meet the profile. We're not gang members, but we have tattoos. We should, we're concerned we're going to have to be sent there too. And a judge did actually stop them from being sent anywhere. So there is some possibility here, maybe of getting some kind of permanent injunction potentially, and maybe getting these guys back, maybe getting lawyers down there. Like there, there is hope, but but we have to stop it now. As

0:43:01 Matt: You're saying, in the name of my Substack pieces, first they came for the Venezuelans because that's how I feel about this right now. It is that bad.

0:43:02 Thomas: We can't mess around with this. Yeah, and as we've already covered on this very episode, what happens when they stop listening to judges? And how I know some of that that stuff is, is impractical. I think it's, there's some stuff where it's just, there is no way because they need too much help. You know, I think the more, the more entities they need, the harder it's going to be for them to ignore a judge because all those people are not necessarily going to ignore judge, you know, when it comes to birthright citizenship, when it becomes other things that require a massive bureaucracy, I think those are a bit safer. I'm not going to go so far as to say anything is like a hundred percent safe right now, but like that stuff is safer I don't know when it comes to this uh you know black site uh I don'T know how many entities that requires to along with their plan I guess of not obeying judge's orders and once they do that what happens well it gets spun in the machine well you see it's these corrupt judges and so we can't listen to them and they're trying to get this child rapist out of prison for something you know they just put it there their their machine that they've built can do anything right now, it feels like. And it's really troublesome. We have

0:43:15 Matt: That's right. That's great.

0:44:10 Thomas: To be on this.

0:44:10 Matt: And as long as you have the right category of person, as long it's a gang member or like you said, child rapist or Antifa.

0:44:16 Thomas: As long as you can say it is. It doesn't matter who they are, Matt. It matters if they can say It. And I don't know how far that extends right now. I mean, who can they say? At the very least, anyone who is not white in is danger. It's just this horrifying.

0:44:18 Matt: That's what I'm saying. We all know how the Neil Moeller poem ends. There's no one left to speak for you. Sorry to bring everybody down there, but that's what's been on my mind with

0:44:37 Thomas: Matt, well, that is, you but it is dark and we need to talk about it. We're Um, going to take a break to decompress and but it's important. And we we do can't lose sight of this, that we gotta be making noise about this. So let's, uh. Take a break and collect ourselves and then we'll get to something stupid.

0:44:46 Matt: Not at all. It. Happy late Gulf of America Day. I don't know what you did to celebrate, but that was February 9th.

0:44:59 Thomas: There's a day now too. Too?

0:45:00 Matt: It was a proclaimed presidential day, Gulf of America Day. Exciting times. As we discussed in the first sort of round of executive orders, One of the first things he signed was something that renamed the Gulf of Mexico the Gulf of America, except it didn't, I want to point out. I feel like I'm one of the only people who apparently read this thing, along with the president of Mexico, because it doesn't actually rename the thing that's on the map as the Gulf of America. It renames the continental shelf, the seaward boundary, right? The actual like 22 miles out, extending to the seaward boundary with Mexico and Cuba and the area formerly named as the Gulf of Mexico. And I'm sure you saw this week that Apple and Google have already updated on the maps So that Gulf of America is right in the middle of that body of water, which is a gigantic body of water, the Caribbean. First of all, I just want to be legally clear that the actual order only renamed sort of the coastline, the continental shelf. Claudia the new president of Mexico, is actually looking into legal action against Google and Apple, Apple, because she's making the point that this is not the Gulf of America. It's the Gulf of Mexico. They are actually still in Mexico. If you are in Mexico, the maps will show Gulf of Mexico,

0:45:28 Thomas: Wait, what? Yeah.

0:46:08 Matt: And you might remember that the executive order ordered the Department of Interior's Board of Geographical Names to take steps to rename these things, both the Gulf of America and Denali, which is the mountain in Alaska, was going to be renamed Mount McKinley back to its original name. I also learned, I did a little more investigation about all of this. I'm just interested about how the law works on these kinds of geographical names because this became a political issue, of course, as everything always does, when the Associated Press was barred from a White House event this week because they wouldn't update their style book to Gulf of America. That's how important this is. And this, again, this is how fascism works, is you have to sort of redefine reality on your terms. So let's hear Caitlin Collins from CNN asking about this whole issue with

0:46:53 Clip: Precedent that this White house will retaliate against reporters who don't use the language that you guys believe reporters should use. And how does that align with the personal commitment that you were just talking about? I was very upfront in my briefing on day one that if we feel that there are lies being pushed by elders in this room, we are going to hold those lies accountable. And it is a fact that the body of water off the coast of Louisiana is called the Gulf of America. And I'm not sure why news outlets don't want to call it that, but that is what it is. The Secretary of Interior has made that the official designation in the Geographical Identification Name Server, and Apple has recognized that google has recognized that pretty much every other outlet in this room has recognized that body of water as the gulf of america and it's very important to this administration that we get that right not just for people here at home but also for the rest of the world

0:47:14 Thomas: Is it countable?

0:47:44 Matt: Okay. All right. So that's real Sean Spicer energy there. You know, the greatest inauguration of all time. We don't have the authority legally to set what the rest of the world calls it. I just wanted to make that point. The UN has that authority. We have the authority to rename within our borders what we want to call it, but we can't just go ahead and make the rest of world call it Gulf of America. This is actually an important legal point. And if you you go to the Department of Interior, the Board of Geographical Names actually has a very sophisticated online tool where you can search geographical names to see sort of the history. And it's actually way more complicated than I could use. But the Gulf of America, just as it is on the Google and Apple maps, is now right in the middle. The pin is right in the middle and it says Gulf of America. And that's just not right. I think that matters. And the same way that Department of Interior can change the name of the mountain, but only Congress can change the name of the Denali National Park. So Mount McKinley is still in Denali national park. Things matter. I know it's a very small law point, but they're trying to rewrite reality. They're trying just to literally remap the globe. So I thought it was worth pointing out. And I will say that I looked at just to see how people feel about this. Two different polls of Americans have come out recently about this, and they both found about 70% of Americans opposed changing the name of the Gulf of Mexico. So this very much a Trump thing.

0:47:46 Thomas: Stupid auto payment. Dumb.

0:49:01 Matt: It's incredibly dumb. But again, it's an part of fascism is redefining reality. So exactly.

0:49:05 Thomas: And just because you can. I can do that you can get everyone to believe that not a a criminal is a criminal uh and then you can put them in your uh site it's all of this the stupid stuff is just as important as the not stupid stuff when it comes to this um method of fascism here

0:49:20 Matt: Right. And that's why, I mean, it was a joke, obviously, when Sean Spicer came out on the very first day of the Trump presidency and said this was the biggest inauguration crowd of all time. But those of us who've done way too much reading about fascism, we're very concerned off the bat because it's exactly that. It's redefining the small stuff so that you can say whatever you want about the big stuff.

0:49:36 Thomas: And I think that back then it didn't work as well um but they've really loosened the jar a bit on the on the whole fascism thing and I think it's actually much more effective now than it was then Sean Spicer was a joke like nationally was a joke and had to leave pretty shortly but not not this lady yeah

0:49:45 Matt: Yeah, but Yeah no this is uh they're very serious about it but I just want to make sure everyone understands just so we can be geographically accurate that it is still the Gulf of Mexico in the deep water part it's only the Gulf Of America and you really don't have to call it that no matter what the president or secretary says uh the c -word boundaries. So just wanted to set the record straight on that one.

0:50:09 Thomas: Right Matt well that's our show boy a lot to lot about and very valuable deep dive there's there's a lot to cover and I feel up to date on a lot of stuff so I appreciate Appreciate that Matt.

0:50:12 Matt: So much. My best here.

0:50:18 Thomas: Thanks so much for listening, everyone. Thanks for supporting. And we'll see you very soon.

0:50:22 Clip: This podcast is a production of Opening Arguments Media, LLC, All Rights Reserved. It is produced and edited by Thomas Smith, who also provided the fabulous intro and outro music used with permission.

0:50:39 Thomas: Know, it's been a weird thing for just me as I went to college with someone who is named Daniel Sassoon, who is that age as well. This is very clearly not that guy that I knew from college, even though it is the same exact name and the the same age. But anyway, what did they do?

0:50:54 Matt: To respect gravity. Yes.