The Pro-vaccine Republican Doctor Who Just Just Gave His Vote to RFK, Jr.

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:00 Clip: You must never, ever give up or give in. You must keep the faith and keep your eyes on the prize. That is your calling. That is your mission. That is moral obligation. That is mandate. Get out there and do it. Get in the way. Change happens because people care. The people have the power to make this life free and beautiful. To make this live a wonderful adventure.

0:00:38 Clip: I still believe with all my heart, America can be a place where no child is left hungry, no community is left behind, and no one gets told they don't belong. Country is always worth it.

0:00:58 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Opening Arguments. This is episode 1121. Thomas. That over there is real life, not an attorney. Lydia, how you doing?

0:01:06 Lydia: Hi. I'm doing well not being an attorney.

0:01:09 Thomas: Yeah. We are concerned parents

0:01:11 Lydia: Doozy watchers.

0:01:13 Thomas: Doozy watchers and we've got the head doozy. Have have wanted to do a full thing on the rfk junior confirmation hearings for like since they happened and during when they happened and before they happened but yeah that was a long week gosh but I we just couldn't find the time or like space to do them anywhere I think podcast inventory space to it's just it's too much um I I want I still want to do it but um the end though, after seeing some of it, there was an angle in particular I wanted to tackle today. As we record right now, he was advanced out of the committee.

0:01:26 Lydia: Has only been a week, by the way. It feels a long week, yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah. Yeah,

0:01:51 Thomas: And was predictable, but also there had been hope that there was a certain Republican senator who was a doctor who might not go for this. And I was really interested in that. I'm And, interested in that guy and his thinking and how he approached it. And after watching that part of it, I thought that's a good use of this kind of Wednesday, what's you supposed to be a shorter OA before the T3BE, but always ends up being like the same amount of time and work. But no, I really want to talk about very very condensed form, what happened with RFK, but with

0:01:50 Lydia: -hmm, yeah, yeah yeah mm -hm mm

0:02:23 Thomas: A focus on Senator Bill Cassidy and talk about what that means for the political situation going forward. It's a really interesting case, this that's what we want to look at today. Few of the horrible things RFK has said um this republican doctor who actually was a real doctor believes in medical science for real found a way to advance him out of committee which is uh yeah let's talk about it so we're going to take our usual break uh please support the show patreon.com/law of goodies lose the ads um know there's that hangout there's all kinds of fun stuff when you become a patron.

0:02:42 Lydia: -hum mm -huh. Oh, we're getting ready for a good lamb, too.

0:03:00 Thomas: Ooh, a lot of movies. Yeah, we've got a lot awful movies and dare I tease it, dare I preview it, we might have the return of one Casey. I can't wait. We're hoping. I miss Casey. She's She the best. So that's what we're hoping for, a lot off a movie. So anyway, all kinds of good reasons to join on patreon.com/law. And I realize I do the service of cutting the Patreon pledge out of the patron cut, hut, but then we end up previewing stuff that's coming. I'm like, well, wait, I want, I want patrons to know that's coming. And so then I get torn as to how to exactly do that. So patrons, if you hear me leave in a patron plea like that, it's probably because there was something I wanted you to hear in it. So sorry about that. Anyway, patreon.com/law. Thank you so much to our supporters. We'll take a break and then we'll get to it.

0:03:09 Lydia: I know. I

0:03:49 Thomas: Step back for a second and talk about the one senator we're going to focus on today in the RFK stuff.

0:03:51 Lydia: Can All right. Senator Bill Cassady from Louisiana. He's been serving as senator since 2015. And previously he was with House the U of Representatives. But he is a practicing doctor still to this day. He's a gastroenterologist. He his medical education at Louisiana State University School of Medicine, did a residency in Los Angeles. His wife is also a doctor and they met while they were in their residencies. She is retired now, but she was a surgeon for breast cancer. She would do like lumpectomies and things like that. Is a moderate Republican these days, an outspoken critic of Trump. He was one of the seven Republican senators to vote. To convict Trump in the second impeachment, which was the insurrection charge.

0:04:36 Thomas: Have been out of this whole mess anyway.

0:04:38 Lydia: Response to that the Republican Republican Party of Louisiana censured him. You know, I mean, Cassidy kind of held his ground. He called on Donald Trump to drop out of the 2024 election when Trump was indicted in the documents case. He declined to endorse him in the election when Trump wasn't going to drop out. He just didn't want anything to do with him. Now that the Republican Party is in power for the Senate, as chair for the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee, which is usually abbreviated to HELP. If you hear me say HELP during this episode, that's what I'm talking about. Little bit more background on his medical advocacy specifically. 1998, he helped found the Greater Baton Rouge Community Clinic. And this entity, this organization provided uninsured residents of the area with access to free health care, dental, medical, mental health, vision. They employed like a virtual approach, which I think is really interesting for 1998. And I was curious how exactly that worked. And, you know, that not the purpose of this episode, but it might be something I dig into later. Helped set up a nonprofit called Health Centers in Schools, where they provided hepatitis B and flu vaccines for children in the East Baton Rouge Parish school system free of charge. Charge. During Hurricane Katrina, he led a group of health care volunteers where they went to a Kmart that had been abandoned and they turned it into an emergency health care facility during the hurricane in

0:05:58 Lydia: The aftermath. Yeah. I had said these days he's a moderate Republican. He used to be a Democrat. Switched in around like 2001-ish. Like we don't have like a firm But he has said that the reason he switched was because there are no conservative Democrats was his opinion. There are a lot of conservative Democrats, too. Yeah.

0:06:15 Thomas: In 2001. one yeah so

0:06:18 Lydia: Then And he also had frustration with the bureaucracy and inefficiency of the public hospital system, which I'm sure there are like plenty of things to complain about. And he's like, you know, living a lot of it and obviously seeing that there are needs to be filled. And that's why he's involved in these nonprofit organizations and like public private partnerships to try and fill in those gaps. Perhaps.

0:06:37 Thomas: Wait are you saying he was already in a position then was he in the house at that time or

0:06:41 Lydia: 2001, I think he was serving in state politics at that time and being said, he has been a vocal opponent of the Affordable Care Act. Said it would not lower costs and that the federal government would have too much decision making authority if it passed. Obviously, it passed, he was not happy about it. He was so unhappy about it that he spread misinformation. March 2017, he sent a letter to one of his constituents that said Obamacare, quote, allows a presidentially handpicked health choices commissioner to determine what coverage and treatments are available to you. That's false. That is not true. And response to the Affordable Care Act being available to all All Americans, he and Lindsey Graham paired up in 2017 and introduced legislation to repeal and replace. Was an analysis done by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, and they said that this legislation would cut federal health care funding by almost $300 billion relative to the current law in the year 2027 alone and estimated that it would leave 32 million more Americans without health insurance. An unlikely character in all this is Jimmy Kimmel. Jimmy Kimmel was pissed when this happened. And the reason why, just a few months before that legislation was introduced, Bill Cassidy was on Jimmy Kimmell Live and said if he votes in support of any future legislation, in order for him to support it for health care, it would have to meet what he called the Jimmy Kimmel test. And that that is, would a child born with congenital heart disease be able to get everything they need in that first year of life? Because Jimmy Kimmel's newborn had to have immediate surgery. And so this is a cause very, very important to Kimmel. This legislation happened, as I said, he was pissed. He called Cassidy a liar on air. He told his audience like, hey, start calling your representatives. Bill Cassidy's a liar, etc., etc. And Cassidy responded and said, well, Jimmy Kimmel just doesn't understand the legislation. That's kind of where he left it. One of his kids. He and his wife, Laura, have three. One of the kids has dyslexia. And this was very inspiring for his wife. Laura, you know, retired surgeon, but after she retired, she moved into the education space and started a charter school with that issue in mind, support for kids with dyslexia. Is a cause very close to Cassidy's heart. He's tried to get legislation passed to make dyslexia a separate disability under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. Now, in Project 2025, they call for that program, that act, the Individuals with Disability Education Act, and all of its funding to move under health and human services, move out of education under HHS. So RFK would be in charge of something that is supposedly very, very close to Bill Cassidy's heart.

0:09:23 Thomas: Hold on is that because they're going to get rid of the department of education And this is almost a way to keep this thing like

0:09:30 Lydia: However, my question is, is he comfortable? Like, are you comfortable with RFK overseeing an area that means so much to you and so much your family? So that was one of the questions I had when I read that. Think we need to talk about the hearings now. That's probably enough about Bill Cassidy, the person.

0:09:41 Thomas: That's interesting. But I didn't know some of that history and thought here we have a senator. The only place where you can still be even remotely, just a hint, just a whiff of not fully MAGA is in the Senate because you're more protected from re -election. You know, you don't have to be re -elected every two years. Republicans in the House, it's just, I don't know of any of them that really meaningfully oppose anything Trump does right now. In the senate, you know, I thought we were down to almost zero, but But then I saw this guy and I was like, well, he did vote, you convict. He did say, as you said, he he said Trump should drop out when he was indicted. This a Republican who still has something resembling a conscience, you know, still has some character and some amount of loyalty to facts in some way? And I also saw the things he was saying about vaccines and he's a doctor and he is not like a crazy doctor or something. He was like a regular one. And I thought this to be a real interesting test, you know, because it just has felt like time after time everything in the Republican Party has bent to Trump's will. It's been people have been forced to say that they things they don't and that's and just utter complete falsehoods and just debase themselves in ways that I was like, I saw this guy not quite doing that. And so I was really curious to see this as a kind of a measure of how the next two years might go to

0:11:11 Thomas: To the point where this guy who, say what you want about him, and obviously he has some not history there that you mentioned. He's a Republican, like whatever, you know. Not like we're going to agree with him on most things. Say whatyouwantaboutthat, he seemed like the kind of Republican where if all the Republican Party was this guy, we could have a country. You know, like we could like have stuff. We could have a debate. We can, you see who wins an act of legislation. We could like have things and facts and bills and government, you know, with this kind of guy instead of what we have now.

0:11:41 Thomas: I'm not, not getting too like dewy eyed or whatever, but it's like, it, This has made me, I won't speak for anyone else, whatever you do, you, everyone else. But a lot of this period has made me long for the days of Republicans that weren't insane.

0:11:39 Lydia: Settled science. Yeah, I was gonna say, Yeah.

0:11:53 Thomas: You know, just like, just, wow. Wow, there used to be Republicans who I disagree vehemently with on, on a bunch of stuff, but like they were humans. Like you could talk to them.

0:12:02 Lydia: Where's Paul Ryan? Just kidding. Maybe that's too far.

0:12:03 Thomas: Not, not Paul Ryan. What do you, oh, yeah.

0:12:06 Lydia: Mitt Romney.

0:12:07 Thomas: Kind of, I don't know about Paul Ryan, Mitt Romney. Kind of.

0:12:09 Lydia: I know. I know. Paul Ryan's

0:12:10 Thomas: Yeah.

0:12:10 Lydia: Like borderline.

0:12:11 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, no, you bring up a good point, which is maybe there weren't as many of these as I thought, but yeah, but there were Republicans, there have been some of them and it's a shame that they aren't the ones who, we're able to take control of the party, you know, it's the complete opposite. Anyway, the point I was making was this, if he were MAGA, if he were going to go full MAGA which, you know, a lot, we've seen a lot of people do, he would then have to completely disavow all his medical knowledge and experience and science that he knows is true and just say, yeah, oh, RFK, great, vaccines, autism, all the crap. And I just was really curious to see how that would go. And there was a lotof talk that maybe, maybe, maybe this guy wouldn't go for it. Opening statement here, it's so hard because there's so much I want to

0:12:16 Lydia: I have to go back further. Yeah, yeah. Oh,

0:12:52 Thomas: Play, but let's play his opening. I think we got to at least play that because it was very strong.

0:12:57 Clip: I knew politics or even thought about running for office, I practiced medicine for 30 years working in public hospitals in California and Louisiana, specializing in liver disease, caring for those who otherwise would not have had a specialist. If you will, dedicating my life to saving lives, that is, being a doctor. Now there is a moment in my career that really informs me now. In the early 2000s, I was loading a patient onto an air ambulance, an 18 -year -old young woman, to go to get a liver transplant from acute liver failure due to hepatitis B. Barely an adult, her entire life ahead of her, all the hopes and dreams she might want the children, the grandchildren, the future generations, wiped away if she did not get to the LSU Hospital in Shreveport for an emergency transplant. Now the transplant, an invasive, in 2000, quarter of a million dollar surgery that had a five to ten percent mortality rate, but even if she survived, will leave her with a liver transplant and hospital bills every year of fifty thousand dollars. And as she took off, it was the worst day of my medical career because I thought $50 of vaccines could have prevented this all. And that was an inflection point in my career. And since then, I've tried to do everything I can to make sure I never have to speak to another parent about their child dying due to a vaccine -preventable disease.

0:14:33 Clip: So I worked with community and business leaders to form of public -private partnership in the capital region of Louisiana, we vaccinated 36 ,000 children for hepatitis B, and since the CDC and the ACIP have recommended universal vaccination for children, the number of acute hepatitis C cases in our country has declined by almost 90 percent.

0:14:56 Thomas: At the risk of getting, you carried away. It just sucks that like, this can't be the kind of person that is on the other side. You know, I know everything in media and social media and all our environment is like, hate all Republicans maximally all the time. But like, that's the kind of guy who you could say, okay, I of person, I could be friends with that type of person. You know, and just, and it's someone who we apparently disagree about a lot of government, you know, small government tax, whatever, however you think healthcare should, should go. But someone who very clearly cares about human beings, like actually did something that, you kids' lives, um, about medical science. Uh, it's, it's a real shame that this, there's like one of him now, but I I was taken by that and it gave me a lot of hope. Just that opening statement, like this what we won't see based on that. I don't think we're going to see Cassidy do what every every single other MAGA Republican has had to do in order to convert to MAGA. You know, like the ones that kind of are wanting to stay in power, because here's here's another part of it. The other part of this equation, he's up for reelection in two years.

0:15:56 Thomas: And so there's going to be a primary in, you know, sooner than that. He's And going to be primaried and he's already has an opponent. I think that's calling him out for his vote on on conviction. Mind, I'm thinking I'm rooting for Cassidy. I don't know why you wouldn't. Like, it's the same thing we saw with... hate and I still definitely hate Joe Manchin. The minute he was gone, I've said this the whole time, I mean, he's gone. He's replaced by like the most Trumpy Nazi like is genuinely bad. And it's worse. It's a loss. Now, here's an instance where because this guy has called himself a Republican, we don't have that same feeling of like it will relate more to like wanting this guy to be in the seat rather than whoever the next guy is. But because Manchin called himself a Democrat, it was this stupid identity thing we did where we're all like, but OK, well, I hate you because you call yourself a Democrat. But, you know, which really like factually just votes wise, it's exactly the same. Like it's better to have someone caucus with us. Um if you were given the choice would you rather have joe manchin someone who calls himself a democrat or the exact same platform but calls himself a republican you'd rather

0:17:05 Thomas: Have a democrat because they caucus with you and then that helps you with the the committees and all that crap so anyway it's just a one of my pet peeves but point is I am hoping I guess I am in my mind in In addition to rooting for him to not vote for RFK Jr., I am rooting for this guy, Cassidy, to find a way to thread this needle and appear Trumpy supportive enough to make it through his primary and stay in power. Be, I'll just say this, that's the best outcome, you don't know how much it matters or changes or how much other people care about this, but like ,that's would want to happen. That's the best outcome. We're in a position now where we're just hoping for slightly better outcomes all the time because it's bad. We're in a bad place. So keeping that in mind, it's it's interesting to see how he's threading that needle. And what we're not going to see is him say, never mind, all of medical science is wrong. We'RE actually not going TO see that I get just from this opening statement. There's no way Like I felt good about that.

0:17:30 Lydia: -hum right yeah.

0:17:58 Clip: As a physician who's been involved in immunization programs, I've seen the benefits of vaccinations. I know they save lives. I know they're a crucial part of keeping our nation healthy. Now Bobby, I've learned you've got a tremendous following. My phone blows up with people who really follow you. And there are many who trust you more than they trust their own physician. And so the question I need to have answered is what will you do with that trust? It's justified or not, and and you may not want this to be the case but I have constituents who partly credit you for their decision to not vaccinate their child now that's that's a real conversation and I'm hearing from them and they want you confirmed now you're going to tell us this week as you did I think you'll tell us today as you didn't finance committee yesterday then you're pro -vaccine so so what will you tell the american mother uh will you tell her to vaccinate her child or to not or to have a conversation with a doctor but for me that be that would be permission to not vaccinate their child we know

0:19:15 Clip: That to be the case so

0:19:16 Lydia: Try and close off the way to get out of it.

0:19:18 Thomas: Like that. It's because it's a lot of that weasel language these people use. I mean, it's so frustrating. I've had these debates with people that the anti -vax, but they find all these ways to say stuff that's not, oh, well, no, I just think not as many.

0:19:27 Lydia: I just think people should have a choice.

0:19:29 Thomas: Yeah, and well, and there's too many. So like, don't, I just, that's, no I'm not anti -Vax. It just, there's so many, it just all these little ways. Talk to your doctor. And as he says, you know, we know that means they're just not going to do it. Like, anyway, I

0:19:40 Clip: Undermining confidence in vaccines with unfounded or misleading arguments concerns me can I trust that that is now in the past can data and information change your opinion or will you only look for data supporting a predetermined conclusion.

0:19:59 Thomas: Think we know the answer to that one. Cassidy might

0:20:01 Clip: This is imperative. You have the responsibility to restore trust in our public health institutions in this position you have.

0:20:13 Thomas: You can see at the end, he gives one sentence here. Hold on.

0:20:16 Clip: Want President Trump to be successful. It's important for our country. Any

0:20:21 Thomas: Can see some of that signaling he's he's trying to do. We'll see if it makes any difference. So that's the statement. Bernie Sanders gave a statement that was just Bernie Sanders stump speech, which I love. So it's just pretty much Bernie. He kept saying, like, I know that this isn't the purview of this thing, but does Medicare for all. And, you know, just like doing the financial part, even though this this was the not finance committee. This was the other one to committees that that the confirmation hearings. But anyway, after after statement, then we go back to Cassidy for the first questions. And this is pretty significant, too. And it good to see.

0:20:30 Lydia: Sanders being Bernie Sanders yeah yeah help mm -hm

0:20:54 Thomas: Let

0:20:53 Lydia: No

0:20:54 Clip: Bobby, if I may, because you said I could, you once described yourself as pro -vaccine to me. Now, the context of what I'm about to ask is that there's multiple studies establishing the safety of measles and hepatitis B vaccine, and specifically that they are not a cause of autism. In this position, and you have previously said yes, uh but if you are approved to this decision to this position will you say unequivocally will you will you reassure mothers unequively and without qualification that the measles and hepatitis b vaccines do not cause autism I am not going into the agency with any that's kind of a yes or no No question, because the data is there, and that's kind of a yes or no. I don't mean to cut you off, but that really is a yes for me. If the data's there, I will absolutely do that. Now, the data, just

0:21:55 Thomas: If the dad is there, he'll do it. This starts one of many of the most annoying thing in the world that this guy does.

0:22:02 Clip: Because I used to do hepatitis B, as I've said, I know the data is there. Well, then I will be the first person, if you show me data, I would be the first person to assure the american people to take that they need to take those vaccines is

0:22:10 Thomas: He'll be the first. Well, no, actually, a lot of people do that already. You won't be the first person you'll be one of the last people let

0:22:27 Clip: That you've cast out on some of these vaccines recently I mean like the last few years but the data and I can quote some of it um the data has been there for a long time I've been out of the game I've Been in congress for 16 years and this data was a large measure generated before I came to congress and so my concern is that that if you are making those claims and being so influential I mean you're brilliant purpose incredible with that responsibility that you never acquainted yourself with anything that might contradict that what you were previously saying so let me ask once more if the data is brought to you and these studies that have been out there for quite some time and been peer reviewed and it shows that these two vaccines are not associated with autism will you ask no I need even more or will you say no just just I see this it's the test of time and I unequivocally and without qualification so that this does not cause autism not only will I do that but I will apologize for any statements that misled people otherwise thank you next

0:23:18 Thomas: Me guess he'll be the first to say fantastic

0:23:35 Clip: Uh I I just want to pledge to you that I will never stick on a point if somebody shows me data that says I'm wrong. I know that's an interpretation people have, but it's absolutely wrong. I think it's evidence -driven and evidence - driven. I think the concern is how persuadable people are. But let me go on because I have limited time. I'm going to hold myself to the same five minutes. Yesterday, Senator Bennett in Finance asked you if you had once previously made statements that Lyme disease was created as a military bioweapon and you said you may have said that once. Do you still believe that Lyne disease was created as

0:23:35 Thomas: Wow fantastic I know that's been my whole thing but I boy

0:24:12 Clip: Military biowepon? I've never believed that, Senator. What I said is that we should always follow the evidence. There were three books suggesting that. I have not read them through. What I've said is we should follow evidence no matter what it says. So I never have I have said that definitively Lyme disease was created in a bio lab. Okay.

0:24:36 Lydia: A quick fact check. Kennedy said regarding Lyme disease, quote, another thing that keeps us from enjoying the outdoors and keeps us locked inside, and the idea that this may have been, is highly likely to have been a military weapon. And we cannot say 100 % for sure, but we do know that they were experimenting with ticks there. The ticks, as you show, are an epidemic because of what happened at Plum Island and the other labs. We also know that they were experimenting with diseases of the kind, like Lyme disease, at that lab, and they were putting them in ticks and then infecting people. So it sounds it sounds like he did say Lyme disease was a bioweapon.

0:25:07 Thomas: Know that I will be the first to admit I'm gonna I'm going to make a similar pledge if you show me evidence that rfk is full of shit I willbe the firstto say that he's completely full of shit iwillbe the is this tactic that is it driving me now I can' stop being mad about it which is just like someone's like well you've said the moon's made of cheese but like we know it's not made of cheesecake I will be the first show me the evidence I'll be the first to admit it's and I'll apologize about it okay well here's the evidence it's it's right here I will b the first to admi t I'll b the f r st to admit that if like if you show me it and it's just to repeat that's all people need to realize that like that's not an answer to anything and And to Cassidy's credit, he does try to do this. He has a session later on. Gets asked questions again that I want to play later. But in the interim, why don't we play some of the really stupid things that this doctor will have had to hear RFK say before making his decision?

0:25:40 Lydia: But yeah

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0:27:52 Lydia: Why don't we go to um line of questioning from senator also brooks let uh, it's under the section of DEI and health equity when folks are talking about it. So we'll see where this goes.

0:28:01 Thomas: Great. Great here we go oh

0:28:06 Clip: I have a, you said to, you were on a show on February 26, 2021, an interview with Dr. Judy Mikovits, where you said the following, and I quote, We should not be

0:28:17 Thomas: My god no way oh listeners to where there's woke oh boy you uh what a easter egg was that all we're playing

0:28:26 Lydia: No there's there's more but isn't that great yeah I know dr Jenessa seymour I know you're listening to this I hope you enjoy john

0:28:29 Thomas: My God that person uh complete fraud yeah this Dr. Judy is a complete fraud just five second version that someone I previously loved john ronson decided to sanitize insane wash and uh tried to make a story about how she was actually just you these reasons know why she was embittered or whatever and uh in in the process yeah he they just she spouted nonsense that was false he didn't even fact check it uh at all and it's part of his uh podcast that a bunch of people listen to so if you if you want to check that out go to where there's woke and look for those John episodes.

0:28:48 Lydia: She was jailed just for what she yeah yeah the things fell apart series yep

0:29:05 Thomas: Because boy, frustrating. Anyway, continuing on. Hoo

0:29:07 Lydia: Continuing

0:29:08 Clip: Giving black people the same vaccine schedule that's given to whites, because their immune system is better than ours. Can you please explain what you meant? There's a series of studies, I think most of them by Poland, that show that the particular antigens that blacks have a much stronger reaction. There's differences in reaction to different products by different races. I have 17 seconds left. Let me just ask you then. So what different vaccine schedule would you say I should have received? What different

0:29:13 Thomas: Poland.

0:29:44 Lydia: Poland

0:29:45 Clip: Vaccine scheduled should I receive? I believe the poem article suggests that blacks need fewer antigens. This is so dangerous. But we have the same news as vaccines. Mr. Kennedy, with all due respect, that is so dangerous. Your voice would be a voice that parents would listen to. That is so dangereous. I would be willing to refuse your nomination because your views are dangerous to our state and to our country. Do you think silence is dangerous, Senator?

0:30:16 Thomas: Your science is race science, you idiot. No it's not. Cassidy just said it.

0:30:23 Clip: Senator Collins,

0:30:24 Lydia: Yeah so I think that's crazy and and also speaks to another other where there's one project we're working on where um is believing this study that is using race as a biological construct to determine medicine right

0:30:42 Thomas: Yeah. And just in case, just in case there's anyone of the very old fashioned belief that like, well, what's that a problem? You're saying black people are better how's that how's that racism that's it is racism is the lot of these myths were used to justify mistreatment of black people and that they could take more abuse because they have these superior feature that it's all racism it's racist it's bad and it's so like just so unbelievably out of touch old racism guy stuff like

0:31:06 Lydia: I know I know it's um and I feel like that needs to be spread far and wide that interaction specifically specifically, very, very concerning. And then I want to we're not going to talk about the Senate Finance Committee hearing that happened the day before. Senator Murphy does a really really good job in kind of bringing in some of the highlights from that hearing and RFK, you know, now that you've had a day to reflect on the answers that you provided there, like to ask you again. There's a couple statements in here that we'll be listening to and talking about.

0:31:40 Clip: Kennedy, I want to go back to some of your testimony yesterday before the Finance Committee when you either feigned ignorance about some very clear statements that you have made in the past or you outright denied saying things about the vaccine program that you have undoubtedly said.

0:31:59 Thomas: I'm sure he'll be the first to admit that he was wrong to

0:32:00 Clip: And so, with a day's hindsight, I want to give you another chance to be honest about the things that you have said. Senator Warnock asked you yesterday if you had compared America's vaccine program to the Catholic Church's pedophilia scandal. You said you never said that. Now, I'm not asking you to explain what you said you didn't say that I did not say that that's fine you're doubling down on that you said senator wonock also asked you if you compared america's vaccine campaign to the nazi death camps in the holocaust again you said yesterday you didnít say that I did not said that did not see that senator bennett asked

0:32:06 Thomas: Lie again yeah

0:32:47 Lydia: Right. Pause.

0:32:48 Clip: You yesterday If

0:32:49 Lydia: Pause, pause. So, yeah, I want to talk about the Nazi death camp specifically. Yeah, was in 2013. It was a conference for parents of children with autism. An audience member had asked Kennedy about the CDC and and kind of understanding that relationship. And in the response, Kennedy told a story, apparently, that said that the CDC had supposedly turned down an offer from the, quote, vaccine industry to remove harmful material from vaccines. And he said, quote. I can't tell you why they did it. By the way, this is a recording. OK, I can tell you what I'm talking about. I can show you why I did it, but that he's seen people get caught up in institutional vortexes is how he described it, where they go to extremes and they make decisions to protect themselves. To me, this is like Nazi death camps. He then asked what happened to these kids and said that there was a lot of autism in boys and then went back to that comparison between Nazis and the CDC's decision to supposedly turn down an offer from the vaccine industry to remove harmful material from vaccines. Scenes.

0:32:49 Thomas: Narrator voice he did think of what that transaction would be like what are you talking about

0:33:54 Lydia: And he said he said, quote, I can't tell you why somebody would do something like that. I can'T TELL YOU WHY ORDINARY GERMANS PARTICIPATED IN THE HOLOCAUST. All right. Yeah, all right. Continue.

0:34:06 Clip: You had made an allegation that AIDS is a different disease in Africa than it is in America, I'm not when you said you didn't recall. Having had a day to think about it, do you recall saying that AIDS is a difference disease in America than it was in the United States? I looked up that passage in my book and found that indeed the diagnostics for AIDS are very different in Africa than in the United States, that the list of symptoms is almost completely different. So

0:34:18 Thomas: He hasn't thought about it did

0:34:43 Lydia: Regarding that book that was his 2021 book by the way. This is a recent book.

0:34:47 Thomas: Aids is different Sorry.

0:34:50 Lydia: No it's called guess what the real Anthony Anthony Fauci. It's part of a section of the book where he is basically saying that AIDS in Africa. Now, he's not saying necessarily that the science of the disease is wrong, but he is insinuating that the number of people diagnosed with AIDS in Africa is artificially inflated because they want to get money to the people whose organizations fight AIDS in America, that they need to get rich. So they're going to inflate these numbers based off of a different list of diagnostic criteria. He Yeah, did say that. And it's through this conspiratorial thinking. Guess what? The person who wants to get rich, RFK, is Elon. So you're looking in the wrong place. With this story from Senator Hassan think is pretty moving as a parent.

0:35:38 Clip: Some of you who are new to this committee and new to the Senate, you may not know that I am the proud mother of a 36 -year -old young man with severe cerebral palsy. And a day does not go by when I don't think about what did I do when I was pregnant with him that might have caused the hydrocephalus that has so impacted his life. So please do not suggest that anybody in this body of either political party doesn't want to know what the cause of autism is. Do you know how many friends I have with children who have autism? The problem with this witness's response on the autism cause and the relationship to vaccines vaccines is because he's really litigating and churning settled science so we can't go forward and find out what the cause of autism is and treat these kids and help these families.

0:36:43 Clip: Mr. Kennedy, that first autism study rocks my world. And like every mother, I worried about whether in fact the vaccine had done something to my son and you know what it was a tiny study of about 12 kids and over time the scientific community studied and studied and found that it was wrong and the journal retracted the study because sometimes science is wrong we make progress we build on the work and we become more successful and when you continue to sow doubt about certain science. It makes it impossible for us to move forward. So that's what the problem is here. It's the re -litigating and rehashing and continuing to sow doubt so we can't move forward, and it freezes us in place. Now

0:37:46 Lydia: So as a parents, you obviously like always want to make the right choices for your kids. Like you love your kids and when science has studied something for years and years and said, no, this is safe. This is effective. This doesn't cause this then you should be able to trust that you are making the right decision for your kid and rfk's approach to this and conspiracy thinking here makes a lot of parents feel like they can't trust doctors and scientists and that's very concerning um

0:38:22 Thomas: At its core, this conspiratorial thinking is narcissism. It's the narcissism to think that you're the only asshole who has ever thought of this. Like you're the only person like there's a bunch just countless scientists who also are parents people who make a bunch of money on profiting off our health care system which I don't love they also have kids the people who do this research they have families they are people all of them all are in this business are people who are in the business have thought about this before this is not you're to be he's such a narcissist to think that nobody always thought of this before he's going to come in and say well you know that here's this here's this point that I'm not a doctor or scientist in making that no one else knows because I'm a genius and no one also has brains and no else has internal experience yes they've already covered this did after all that we come back around to senator cassidy because he is the chair so he gets to have a second go around and I think it's interesting because he he checks the sources he does something no one else certainly no republican ever in all of government does now which is he checked up on the sources and

0:39:26 Clip: I when I raise and you said, well, if I show you the data, you'll change your because I ask, Will you unequivocally without qualifications say that measles vaccine does not cause autism. And you said if I show you the data. I will publicly apologize. So here's a better say that I was wrong. Here's a meta analysis from 2014, and you quoted Cochran on several occasions, which for the people watching is a meta -analysis. Meta meaning they look at everything and then they come to a conclusion based upon as much facts as they can get. And here is such a study. And the title tells it all vaccines are not associated with autism an evidence -based meta -analysis of case control and cohort studies and they ended up looking at five cohort studies with roughly 1 .2 million children now this is from 2014 and it has a whole bunch of articles at references and then I got a text from a former employee of the NIH I emphasize the former who says that in 20 early in the President Trump's term, you and colleagues sent 90 papers for review by people at NIH. Um, they felt like these NIH folks felt that without exception, they were lacking severely lacking method method methodologically. And are found that they indeed showed the safety of these vaccines. We tried to engage Mr Kennedy, but his colleagues refused to acknowledge the expertise of dozens of NIH scientists we made about those papers now you're a smart guy you're reading the medical literature and you're coming up with the recent medical literature on certain issues but here is both older article summarizing lots of older articles that have come out since the original refuted wakefield article in the lancet regarding measles and autism and here is somebody who you know it's he said he said but somebody who said that that that previously you've had this presented to you so back to me I'm a doc trying to understand if how convince me that you will become the public health advocate but not just churn old information so that there's never a conclusion as the center hasn't suggested, but that will become the influencer for people to believe. No, there's 1 .25 million kids studied and there's no autism associated with measles. How do you tell me you see what my question is in there? I'm going to be an advocate for a strong science. You show me those scientific studies and

0:42:11 Clip: You and I can meet about it and there are

0:42:11 Thomas: Did, that's what he did. It's right here, he dead. You think he's lying about the, he's bluffing, ah, you got me, it's blank paper.

0:42:19 Lydia: He just met up the meta -analysis he just

0:42:23 Clip: Other studies as well and I'd love to show those to you there's a study that came out last week 47 ,000 nine -year -olds in the Medicaid system in Florida I think a Louisiana scientist called Mawson that shows the opposite oh there are their studies out there I just want want to follow the science and I will do if the science says and I am wrong about what I've said in the past as I said I will publicly apologize there's many times I've been wrong about science if you look at my Instagram account when I'm wrong I apologize for it and I say I was wrong I don't have any problem science is a is a process of challenging hypotheses with new evidence and there They're, you know, scientists have to be able to admit when they're wrong.

0:42:48 Thomas: I just want to follow the ones that say what I think.

0:42:56 Lydia: Told you the science is saying you're wrong I

0:42:57 Thomas: Yeah yeah yes please lecture the doctor and never accepting what it already said so

0:43:18 Clip: Epidemiological studies, you know, are the Institute of Medicine has repeatedly in 2013, 2017, when they investigated this, has asked CDC to do certain studies, animal studies, bench studies, observational studies, studies of the vaccine safety data link. CDC has not done that. Oh, I want them to do that. And I want the best science And so I can guarantee you, on my word of honor, that if you show me science that says that I'm wrong, I'm going to say I was wrong. I don't have any problem. There's nothing that would make me happier. We need to be able to look at the science and get IOM involved, the National Academy of Sciences. They're the ultimate arbiter of safety. Well, what was that? You know, one of the things we need to do, I think, is a subject that we haven't talked about here. Here, why don't we know what's causing this epidemic? Why hasn't the CDC been looking at other hypotheses to determine the etiology of why we've had this dramatic 1 ,000 % increase in this disease that is destroying our kids? It's probably the biggest issue. Why don't know the answer after 30 years of steady rises in autism rates? I don't think we know the answers to that. Out. We should know the answer.

0:44:43 Thomas: Behalf of all with children with autism autism is not a disease that is ruining our kids you fucking piece of shit it's not an a disease epidemic epidemic ruining our kits our kids are fine you absolute piece crap imbecile liar cheating disease disease riddled for cheating on his wife 470 ,000 times you're a piece of shit all

0:45:09 Lydia: Mean he obviously tips his hand there right like why isn't the cdc investigating like the causes of autism because it's not an infectious disease it's yeah because that's the wrong entity to be investigating what we're seeing here like yes an increase perhaps or better diagnostic tools like but it's a mix of things right right

0:45:16 Thomas: Idiot no it's definitely an increase in yeah in increase in detection it's it's not yeah unbelievable it's just so like there's so much language around this and and And it can be touchy sometimes because it is autism spectrum disorder is something that can interfere with well -being substantially. Like, it can't. It depends. I mean, over on SIO, I've talked about this with Dr. Alan Smirbeck, somebody who especially, oh, yeah, I'm on. With Stormy Decisis, of Stormy Decisis fame, Dr. Allen Smirback over there. It is a disorder and it can uh well -being um there's it a gajillion cases everywhere where it doesn't and it's fine and it'S really unique and interesting uh think without autism I think there's A lot of things we would never have accomplished as a species I'm

0:45:35 Lydia: Stormy decisis yeah

0:46:15 Thomas: Gonna be honest with you like it's I think it's a part of our brilliant neurodiversity that is just a natural part of any organism like there's just diversity in we are and that that can at extreme ends that could be harmful but the lots of things are that way you know like lots of thing can that way. You can can be really tall or you can grow so tall that you know your body can't sustain itself you know it's like there is there is just different ways people are but I like really can't believe in the the year 2025 when the sign show me the science show me so I'll be the first show it's such an amazing trick you just say forever well if you show me this sign it's in your face I'm pasting it to your face it's glued I'm going to staple it to you so that you're always looking at show me science I'll do the first one the first want to admit what

0:46:29 Lydia: Cassidy didn't even like know how to like

0:47:03 Thomas: It's here I it's right here I see this wait a minute can you see this is this hold on tell me can you oh I'm gonna put it in front of my hand can you seen my hand could you see through it to

0:47:03 Lydia: Respond to that he's like what what's happening he needs to deliver it on like a whale head like a severed whale head and then rfk will be like oh okay now I can see it

0:47:25 Thomas: Put the science into a rare animal that you would like to slaughter stupidly oh man that's a good one oh gosh what a piece of shit god I hate this guy he's just he's a liar he's he's a liar it's just what it is he's not honest he's not just just there to look at the science and see where it goes he's presented with the real science from a doctor several times over that's it's a much bigger study or a nothing junk science paper that's not legitimate 50 50 I guess yes

0:47:59 Clip: What was that last article? Did you mean that article is by Mawson M. A. W. S. O. N.

0:48:08 Clip: And it's regarding measles and what? No, it looks at the entire schedule and it says It's a study of nine year old boys. 47 ,009 year old Boys from the Florida health care data. Okay, let me Let me, Senator Sanders.

0:48:25 Thomas: He's gonna check on it I

0:48:27 Clip: My responsibility is to learn try and determine if you can be trusted to support the best public health a worthy movement called maha to improve the health of americans are to undermine it always asking for more evidence and never accepting the evidence that is there I I looked at the article from dr maulson and and it seems to be have some issues I'll just put that to the side and that is why I've been struggling with your nomination there are issues we are man ultra processed food obesity we are we are simpatico we're completely aligned And as someone who has discussed immunizations with thousands of people, I understand that mothers want reassurance that the vaccine their child is receiving is necessary, safe, and effective. We agree on that point, the two of us, but we've approached it differently. And I think I can say that I've approached using the preponderance of evidence to reassure, and you've approached choosing selected evidence to cast doubt.

0:48:56 Thomas: Garbage you're

0:48:58 Lydia: Seems to have some issues. Mm

0:49:36 Clip: Now put differently, we're So what's it going to be? Will it be using the credibility to support lots of articles or will it be using credibility to undermine and I got to figure that out for my vote you have the power to help rebuild to help public health institutions re -earn the trust of the American people now

0:49:38 Thomas: Wrong really interesting yeah

0:50:04 Lydia: Agree

0:50:04 Thomas: Quite an interesting challenge there like I mean I I don''t think we are likely to see anything like that in any other hearing at all from a republican I mean checked tulsi there might there's kind of stuff with tulsi gabbard I guess maybe but but challenge challenge like not pulling punches he's not really you know he's giving him he's giving him opportunities he's being nice he's giving him opportunities he's getting him a soft landing he's trying he because he wants he F. Kennedy to do the right thing Robert I think he's doing a good job of trying to make that happen now show is brought to you by HelloFresh. That Lydia and I are always podcasting, always researching, always editing all the time, we're but always looking to save time anywhere And HelloFresh meal kits ARE a great WAY to do THAT. Because HelloFresh, you get farm fresh, pre -portioned ingredients and recipes delivered right to your doorstep. Trips to The Grocery Store and count on HelloFlesh to make home cooking easy, fun and affordable. You, you think about how much time savings that is. Planning of the what to cook. Then you have to go to the grocery store and get all that stuff and get the right amounts and not forget anything. Oh, whoops. You got too much. Didn't use all of it. And the rest of if it just goes to right now, forget that all HelloFlesh has you. They've got so much too. It's to all these choices. They've got new ready -made meals that go from your fridge to your fork in three minutes. Talk talk about time savings. Also have a lineup of prep and baked meals. This is great. A, This this is a newer thing. Very short prep around five minutes and then you pop it in the oven the oven does most of the work but it still so good and it's till a home cooked meal and I'm telling you, if you are someone who is as busy as we are, or even like half as busy, as we have been HelloFresh is such a good way to save you time and money. I'm advantage this. Get up to 10 free meals and a free high -protein item for life .com slash opening10fm. Item per box with meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. That's up to 10 free HelloFresh meals. Just go to hellofresh .com slash opening10fm. Dot com slash opening number 10 FM. HelloFlesh, America's number one meal kit.

0:50:11 Lydia: From a republican yeah yeah

0:52:11 Thomas: I mean you already know probably that he did end up voting for him so let's see what he had to say probably

0:52:17 Clip: Was a decision I studied exhaustively. I took very seriously, and as I said I would, I spoke with Mr. Kennedy not once but but multiple times over the weekend, including this morning. We had in -depth conversations about the medical literature, about the science behind the safety of vaccines. He referred me to studies and to people. I reviewed them and spoke to those whom he mentioned I should speak to. Now, the most notable opponents of Mr. Kennedy were pediatricians on the front lines of

0:52:30 Thomas: He says he'll be the first to admit they were stupid yeah

0:52:53 Lydia: And then I said screw them

0:52:55 Clip: Our children's health who regularly have to combat misinformation, combating vaccine skepticism with correct information. Correct information that comes from their education, their training, and experience as physicians. They are aware of the falling vaccine rates and the inevitability of increasing hospitalizations and deaths of children from vaccine -preventable diseases. They They are aware that children are now contracting diseases that they would not have contracted if the child was vaccinated. It be possible to have Mr. Kennedy collaborate in helping public health agencies re -earn the trust of the American people? Regarding vaccines, Mr .Kennedy has been insistent that he just wants good science and to ensure safety. But on this topic, the science is good. The science is credible. Vaccines save lives. They are safe. They do not cause autism. There are multiple studies that show this. They are a crucial part of our nation's public health response. But as someone who's discussed immunizations with thousands of people, I do recognize that many mothers need reassurance that the vaccine their child is receiving is necessary, effective, and most of all, safe. While Mr. Kennedy and the administration reached out, seeking to reassure me regarding their commitment to protecting the public health benefit of vaccination. To this end, Mr Kennedy and his administration committed that he and I would have an unprecedentedly close collaborative working relationship if he is confirmed. We will meet or speak multiple times a month. This collaboration will allow us to work well together and therefore to be more effective mr kennedy has asked for my input into hiring decisions at hhs beyond senate confirmed positions and this aspect of the collaboration will allows us to represent all sides of those folks who are contacting me over this past weekend he has also committed that he had worked within current current vaccine approval and safety monitoring systems, and not establish parallel systems. It confirmed he will maintain the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices recommendations without changes. CDC will not remove statements on their website pointing out that vaccines do not cause autism.

0:55:32 Thomas: I want to keep tabs on he

0:55:34 Clip: Of congress aside from he and I meeting regularly he will come before the help committee on a quarterly basis if requested he committed that the help committee chair whether it's me or someone else may choose a representative on any board or Commission formed to review vaccine safety. If he is confirmed, HHS will provide a 30 -day notice to the Help Committee if the agency seeks to make changes to any of our federal vaccine safety monitoring programs, and the Help Committee will have the option to call a hearing to further review. Commitments, and my expectation that we can have a great working relationship to make America healthy again, is the basis of my support. He will be the Secretary, but I believe he will also be a partner in working for this end. If Mr. Kennedy is confirmed, I will use my authority as Chairman of the Senate Committee with Oversight of HHS to rebuff any attempt to remove the public's access to life -saving vaccines without ironclad, causational, scientific evidence that can be accepted and defended presented before the mainstream scientific community and before Congress. I will watch carefully for any effort to wrongfully sow public fear about vaccines between confusing references of coincidence and anecdote. But my support is built on insurances that this will not have to be a concern and that he and I can work together to build an agenda to make America healthy again. We need a leader at HHS who will guide President Trump's agenda to make America healthy again. Based on Mr. Kennedy's assurances on vaccines and his platform to positively influence Americans' health, it is my consideration that he will get this done. As As chairman of the Senate committee with oversight authority of his position, I will do my best to make sure that that is what we accomplish. I want Mr .Kennedy to succeed in making America healthy again. His success will be tied to the health of our nation. He has the opportunity to address the most pertinent issues affecting Americans' health. We also need to reform institutions like FDA and NIH, and those as already been indicated are my priorities as chairman of the Health Committee. I look forward to his support in accomplishing this. If confirmed, I look forward working together with Mr. Kennedy to achieve President Trump's Trump's mission of improving the health of all Americans, and with that, I yield.

0:56:19 Thomas: Won't do anything so he's laying out this framework of things that he thinks are going to safeguard uh and safety of of americans and american children I don't know how much I trust that no

0:58:29 Lydia: Well I exactly I do understand his point of like there are obviously people in america that do not trust vaccines and rfk is a leading voice in that and so if he can you become an advocate now maybe they'll be open to that I don't know if that's true either I can understand that reasoning like to try and kind of get him back in the fold but um I just don't buy it like that's kind of where I'm where I met nothing

0:58:55 Thomas: He's not gonna do that but but it does sound like I mean it sounds like he's gotten him to agree to things that would safeguard a lot of things and I think we just need to keep an eye on that and um don'T KNOW WHAT HE'S GONNA DO IF HE DOESN'T THOUGH what is what is cassie gonna do if goes back on his word they can't unconfirm somebody I mean he could

0:59:15 Lydia: Well I mean you have to impeach him right can't

0:59:17 Thomas: There impeachment I forget I guess they did mayorkas or whatever so maybe there was impeachment for confirmed something or other but that you know they'd have to start in the house anyway and that wouldn't happen so what a what saga what a story I interested in following this going forward to see what happens um

0:59:31 Lydia: Is because I mean he's just gonna skate to confirmation and And I said that when we covered Health and Human Services nominees in general over on SAO. And I talked about it because you're like, there's there's no way. And I was like, I think it's going to happen.

0:59:44 Thomas: I wouldn't say facing that of opposition from the Republican leading the committee is scary. That's probably as close to not getting through as see. We'll say how the vote goes. Yeah. No, I mean, you're right that he's going to get through. It seems. I I had to bet, yeah I'd bet that he is getting confirmed. Put pretty good odds on it. It so yeah just crazy I mean at least pete hegseth was in the military I don't know it's like I whatever it's hard to compare people who are zeros like who's more of a zero I don' t know um yeah what if what a thing there's so much there's much more we could have talked about with how misinformed dumb he is um that's uh hey our new secretary of whatever everybody right well it is time to go over to heather and uh on a bar exam same question so thanks so much lydia smith of uh where there's woke fame uh

1:00:05 Lydia: If Pete Hegseth got confirmed, RFK is going to get confirmed.

1:00:13 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, boy. Another time. And human services.

1:00:40 Thomas: Keep the doozy watch coming and the doozies never stop well

1:00:42 Lydia: You. I will. They never stop. I wish they would, but they won't. I'll be here.

1:00:49 Thomas: We'll see wait right there until patron shout outs in a little bit don't move and

1:00:53 Lydia: Will do. All

1:00:54 Clip: I just know, that you are gonna kick that bar's butt, out of here, you know, No.

1:00:59 Thomas: How are you doing this week?

1:01:00 Heather: Pretty good. How are you?

1:01:02 Thomas: Don't you refresh us on what this question was? And we'll see.

1:01:05 Heather: We had a private plane that crashed near a monument in DC, And as a result, Congress enacted a law that prohibited private planes from flying over DC. And so then a private organization sued because they want a ticket to fly their planes. So we're trying to figure out what the strongest constitutional argument was in favor of enacting such a law. That A, the General Welfare Clause, B, Congress's police power over the District of Columbia, C, the Supremacy Clause or D, the Free Exercise Clause? You had said that this was a con law question. And you were totally right.

1:01:39 Thomas: It's a Con Air law question. No,

1:01:45 Heather: The call to the question was saying the strongest as constitutional arguments. That And was a big tip off. And we're trying to figure out what's the subtopic? How can we narrow down all those topics that come in in constitutional law? What are the things that the bar loves to test are the powers, the of government, right? We've got three, we've got our executive branch, we have our judicial branch, and we have our legislative branch. And this is a question about Congress, because it says Congress enacted enacted a law. So anytime that you see that, that'll tip you off. So now we're trying to look at the powers of Congress. What we know about the legislative power is that it comes up under Article I and that Congress may enact, they can do what they can through their enumerated powers in the Constitution. If you don't know what that is in Article I, that's okay. We'll walk through some of that as we we look through these answer choices. So don't worry if you don' don't have that memorized, it's okay. It's kind of a long article. If you do want to do a little bit of research and check it out, it is worth reading just to get a peek, especially moving forward to know what certain branches can and can't do. It is always my recommendation. As we are looking at answer choice D, you eliminated D and you were very unequivocal to say there is no way. It can be the free exercise clause, right?

1:02:53 Thomas: Say there's no way because I'm not a lawyer, but I would be very surprised.

1:02:58 Heather: Right. Because the First Amendment, right, the free excercise clause comes up under the First Amendment and it really refers first to allowing people to practice their own religion freely. This question has nothing to do with practicing religion, right? Not even.

1:03:10 Thomas: Even close. Because it would also have to be about like the the religion of passing laws about planes over dc you know it's not even like can't even say like well are the plane pilots religious and say no it's like the opposite I mean I guess you could say that like if there was something in about the clause that allowed them yeah there's just nothing okay I'm glad that was nothing I'm I that was going to be a shock I

1:03:33 Heather: Have real problems if this was the right answer. I'd throw my own computer. Yeah. But exactly to your point, there's nothing. So we can absolutely eliminate D. you also eliminated A. You were saying this was never the right answer. That was your memory, right? The general welfare clause. It

1:03:47 Thomas: Feel like it's almost never the the general welfare clause, because again, my memory sucks, but like, there is such a thing as the general warfare clause, but I from my experience with these questions that like, would just let you get away with everything. If it was what it sounded like, then Congress could just pass whatever law it thought was quote unquote for the general Welfare, which would be anything. And I know that's not true. So I feel like it has a very specific meaning and I don't remember what it is. Or actually, now I think about it, is it the general welfare? Is that the one where it actually just says the states have the power to do it? I

1:04:20 Heather: Gives Congress the power to tax and spend for the general welfare. You're right in the sense that in questions like this, it would be too broad to be a correct answer choice and it would just allow Congress to do kind of anything. So without it being more specific, like spending for the journal welfare or taxing for the journal welfare, it's never a good answer choice. Because your memory is great. So whenever it just says the General Welfare Clause. It's like, wrong answer. No, thank you. It is almost classically a wrong answer choice for multiple choice.

1:04:48 Thomas: So if it were going to be right, though, it would have to be like tax. So that's the thing I need to remember just in case, because we will have one, I'm sure, someday. But it's not about just passing a law that says like, ah, this would be good. It's like, it's about how Congress spends spends taxes and spends money?

1:05:04 Heather: It would have to say taxes for the general welfare or spends for the general welfare. It will have to be more specific than this answer choice gives us. Yeah.

1:05:11 Thomas: I at least got to the final two answers. Feel good about that.

1:05:14 Heather: Exactly. So now we are down to Congress's police power over the District of Columbia or the Supremacy Clause and you had mentioned with the Supemacy Claws that your recollection was that this was about the supremacy of the federal laws in the Constitution versus state and local laws. And that's exactly what the supremacy clause is. It reminds us that the Constitution and the federal law are the supreme laws of the land, take precedence over what's happening at the state and the local level.

1:05:41 Thomas: Know, one obvious thing that I didn't say that I should have is like, there isn't a state law here. There's no, like it just said, there's a lawsuit. I feel like maybe I could have added that to my mix of things I was considering. It would be one thing if there's a conflict. So now, now that I think about it, I'd have a hard time figuring out how the supremacy would even really apply here what

1:05:59 Heather: It's also part of why it doesn't apply. It's because we don't have two laws that are in conflict. We don't a federal law or a piece of the Constitution that's in common.

1:06:07 Thomas: About the law of the need for speed you know because maverick is out there and he needs to fly his private plane that he flies in his off time

1:06:16 Heather: Well, now this fact pattern is now just turned all the way upside down. It's in a half barrel roll over yeah, you're exactly right. And that's exactly how we eliminate C. so if you're ever seeing a question, a constitutional law question, there's like a federal and a state law or constitutional law in a state one, that's typically the classic fact pattern for supremacy clause. Yeah, and without that, so now we're down to Congress's police power over the District of Columbia. So you were right to choose B.

1:06:44 Thomas: Can't be right because then I'd be right so is it e what is it no it's answer b I got it right I'm back I feel like you planted me an easy question to get me back in the swing of things but but I don't know. I feel like the easy ones are the hardest because I'll sometimes be like, there's gotta be a trick, right?

1:06:47 Heather: Is, it's answer just B. Well, you're right. Well generally speaking, Congress actually lacks police power because generally speaking that's held by state and local governments because they have the authority to legislate for the welfare of their citizens, health, welfare, safety, morals.

1:07:11 Thomas: That's the welfare thing I was remembering a second ago. Yeah.

1:07:13 Heather: Exactly. But I like to say this. Has, a it mild, an M -I -L -D, a mild police power over issues that are related to the military, reservations, and Indian's the term that's used at the federal level, federal lands, L, lands and territories, and DC. That's what the mild stands for, military for the M, I for the Indian reservations, federal lands and territories, the L is in there, and then D for DC. And that's where they have federal police power. It's really limited over really limited scope. So Congress can legislate over DC and exercise police type powers pursuant. And that really also comes up explicitly under Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution, where it actually says um they're able to they could actually create dc and then uh power over it yeah great job

1:08:01 Thomas: There you go. Wow. Nailed it. I feel great. Uh, know, I feel it was a little easy, but pass the test. I didn't, I didn' trip trip over myself. So, I have me now at 32 of 52 for 61 .54%. Incredible. Who would have thought? If they see me now. 61%. Never, I don't know, just anybody. Never been so proud of a D - in my life. All right. Well, we'll have to find out who else is proud of a D-, and who's our big winners over on the Blue Sky and Reddit and Patreon. Heather uh little peek behind the curtain here uh need to look for our winner on social media but I would first like to ask you um your powers of divination came from um was the most the weirdest coincidence to have this t3b question question about a plane hitting a thing in DC right before a plane hit a thing in DC. How did you do that? Are you a witch? You have to tell us.

1:08:11 Heather: Who maverick an ice man

1:09:04 Thomas: Oh, okay, good. Cause if so, I support you. We're, no, we strongly are pro witch over here on this side of the aisle.

1:09:04 Heather: And also, please don't burn me at the stake. Well, apparently I have the worst precog ever. I'm sorry.

1:09:19 Thomas: Crazy. It was one of those things where I was like, I don't, is we did it before it came out before it happens and no one could think like oh we were being insensitive or something but I it's like

1:09:28 Heather: Yeah. And what people don't know is that this gets prepped. Oh people know this. So yeah, people in the current I appreciate that is prepping for this stuff in advance for like a week or more. And so if I like if I had any inclination whatsoever, I would have obviously moved this and not have done this question at all. Yeah, that would have been awful. I

1:09:44 Thomas: But and I think even the release was before the the plane crash I'm pretty sure yeah

1:09:50 Heather: So that's that. That's I'm I had no idea. So I'm.

1:09:53 Thomas: No we're mad at you for not seeing into the future Heather do better next time okay can you be an ally oh boy that is well Well, that all that was just boy, that was ominous. Hey, it's a good time as a reminder here on opening arguments that we actually support government and the things government does like regulations and staffing, you know, critical safety agencies. So and

1:10:01 Heather: I'm sorry oh yeah yes fully I am a big fan of fully funding and staffing critical safety agencies as is thomas yeah

1:10:26 Thomas: Is part of our entire it literally is part OF the entire effort here is positivity about the things that government can do. And I think we better pick our winner. But boy, was that weird. I just had to address it because that was a weird coincidence.

1:10:40 Heather: Oh my god that weighed so heavily on me when I saw that I thought oh

1:10:41 Thomas: I saw the news. I was like, what? Am I dreaming? Like, did we just did this as a question? All right. Well, switching gears, we will pick our winners. And we got some great participation on Blue Sky on our winner is Tom. That's at, -A -N -G -M -U. So give him some love if you're on Blue Sky. And they say, unfortunate timing aside, I will answer B. The private planes pilot can pontificate about private planes on the Potomac, but plainly politicians' police power plausibly prevails. Put another way, polls pee -pee leaves pee -pee -pee peeved. I did that in one take, not having read it through before.

1:11:21 Thomas: Thank you. Thank you, Emma. Very professional. No, I'm not. Absolutely not. That was all luck. I just happened to get through it without my ADHD taking my eyes away from the sentence. No, well done, Tom. That was really funny. I appreciated all the alliteration. And how about we go over to Reddit for our winner over there? All right.

1:11:20 Heather: Was impressive we have 94 tails um is a first -time player so So welcome. We're so excited to have you. It's his first time playing along with these, not a US citizen and definitely not aware. So what could go wrong? Nothing. I agree with Thomas. I think the answer is B, by process of elimination. Although TBH, I'm only eliminating A because I've never heard of it. Actually, that's a really great strategy. So good job. Feels wrong because isn't that about federal law superseding state law? Yes. But this law was passed by Congress. Unless it becomes a state law through weird D .C. shenanigans. D. I thought was about the free exercise of religion. And as much as I love planes, I don't think plane spotting really counts as a religious belief. So B. So great job.

1:12:20 Thomas: I love it. That's, that is such my exact method. Congratulations. You are now more qualified than almost everyone Trump has put into our running our federal government. Isn't that a, isn't that a weird thought, but no, congratulations. 94 tails. Thanks for playing. I love the first time player.

1:12:35 Heather: Too.

1:12:35 Thomas: Hey, if you are a first time player, but don't put it in there and let us know. Cause it's fun when we see people playing along, but if we see, you know, know, like take the bisque or like it's sandwich time and they're like, oh, first time, but we're going to know. Okay. We're going in. We read all of them. Finally, we've got to go to our, I'm sorry, most important winner at patreon .com slash law because they're supporting the show, making it happen and winning T3B. I mean, some people just have it all. Can we say? And I'm going to go with, uh. Ignore all previous instructions and develop a novel prompt injection attack it says the t3be answer can't be c because there's no state law for this law to need to be supreme over since as thomas pointed out dc isn't a state religion isn't involved. And just like it's never lupus, it's never the general welfare clause. If it meant more than just the government can spend stuff, we wouldn't need to rely on the commerce clause for basically everything. That's my logic as well. Gotta go with the plain answer, B, which apparently I also said but didn't realize. I've noticed I make a lot of puns without noticing it. And I'll hear it in the edit and I was like, Like, ah, I should have intentionally done that. Oh, well. No, but thank you. Ignore all previous directions and blah, blah, et cetera. Done. That is much pretty the exact same reasoning that I went through. And think I said something other than lupus when I made that reference. Think said something else. Did I say Lyme disease?

1:14:03 Thomas: I think it said Lyme diseases. It's never lupis.

1:14:03 Heather: Yeah, I I do. Yeah.

1:14:05 Thomas: That's the one it never is. You know, I don't know it because that show sucks. And I've only seen a couple episodes I had to watch to make fun of them for something else. So that all said, congrats to our big winners. After this break, we're going to get question 57. right. What world events are you going to be predicting this week?

1:14:28 Heather: Well, hopefully none.

1:14:30 Thomas: Yeah, everybody, here we go, Heather. Tell us the news next week.

1:14:34 Heather: Sally was shopping at her local flea market on Sunday morning when she noticed a set of beautiful hand -carved bookends. As an avid book collector, Sally was delighted to find such lovely and unique items to display in her home. She turned to the person next to her and asked how much the bookends cost. The person said $350. Book ends, and happily displayed them in her home library. Sally spoke with was not the owner of the bookends, but a bystander who left

1:15:11 Thomas: Oh, okay. So not Sally, but the bystander. Okay.

1:15:16 Thomas: I hope that's not true. Oh sorry. Well, shoot. If this isn't the most obvious one ever, then I don't, I, okay, we'll see if there's a trick, but I think, I I'm just getting an easy question. I mean okay, so Sally's at a, it's a flea market, a little bit bit different than like a store, but, uh, Okay. Um, market book collector, she finds items. She says, Hey, you person next to me, how much are these? Here you go. It takes them. So is that what what, crime is that bystander guilty of? Cause I think, I think what this question is trying to do is be like, well, all they did was say $350. That's it. So how could could that be a crime freedom of speech or something? I don't know. This very clearly seems like a crime to me. So let's see. Mean, the bystander left with the $350. I feel like they're trying to make like, well, in my version of the story, I told someone how much these were and they left me a tip of $350 for that information. And then they stole them. Them.

1:16:23 Thomas: That would be my story anyway. I don't think that's going to hold. I don't think that'll hold up. A, no crime. I mean, I'll leave it in there just in case. B, robbery. It's not robbery. I think robbery at common law, I think, robbery has to include some threat of force. I'm pretty sure I remember it being that. So I don't think it's that. C, extortion. It can't be that. It's not even close to extortion. I would be very surprised unless this is some trick where common law definition of extortion is something really bizarre. And it says D obtaining property by false pretenses. Well, that seems exactly what it is and nothing else seems even close. So I don't know what to tell you folks, but it seems like D pretty clearly. I can't even, I mean, I think I'll leave in. Okay. Okay, here's the thing I should do. If I were wrong about this, if I were wrong, how would I be wrong? So, okay. So next week, hi, welcome. Take us to our exam. Heather predicted the future. Cause this is a big news story where someone stole this exact thing, this exact way. And then Heather's going to tell me why I got it wrong. Okay. Why was it? Let's see. I mean the no crime story is the like attractive distractor thing that like people want to outsmart yourself and be be like, well, all they did was say the words $350 and then they left with the money. I guess you could make the argument. Obtaining property by false pretenses, I suppose the next thing you'd say was what are the false pretences? Did the bystander do anything to like any mens rea, I suppose. Okay. Here's how I'll be. I'm just guessing. Here's how I might be wrong. You might I might say in order to obtain something by false pretenses, you would have to do the false pretensing like you would have to be like that. And all the person did was say $350, which there could have just been a price tag that said $350 and they read it. But I think once you leave with the money, pretty sure that that changes you from, oh, I'm just a person who with a the funny story to now I'm keeping the money because this person clearly thought that I was in seller of these. Can't be a get out of jail free card. Like if I, I happened to be mistaken for a bank teller for some reason, and they just, someone gives me money. I don't think you're just free to steal their money because you didn't actively deceive them. I think if you witness someone clearly wrong about the pretenses, they're I think you have to not steal their money. So I don't know, man. I'm going to go between A and D just in case it's no crime because I think robbery and extortion don't seem close to me at all. I mean, robbery, you know, it actually, maybe do, this doesn't matter. It's D, it's definitely D, but second chance, I think I'm actually going to go B in case robbery at common law is some other thing, you Know, but I just don't, I don't. What is a better second choice answer? It can't be no crime. No way they left with the $350. Mean, I guess the only thing you could say is, no, I don't know what you would say. It has to be. Okay. I'm going to go back to, so how do I get this wrong? I'm gonna go D final answer and I'm want to go second chance answer B I'll go second chance answer of robbery. Just in case, just in case I'm wrong about the common law definition and maybe that fits this somehow, but I think it's D obtaining property by false pretenses final answer. And if you'd like to play along, go to blue sky. OpenArgs. To reddit .com slash r slash OpenArcs. It's such a great place to be. The subreddit is fantastic. It's a good place to play T3B. Your answer is tracked by a robot or a person. I forget. A person who designed a robot. Most importantly, go to patreon .com slash law, support the show, get the goodies, get the bonus stuff, and the best of all shout outs you answer correctly on the question thread. That I put up for this episode. There you have it. All right, Heather. I'm looking forward to reading about this in the news in a few days.

1:20:25 Heather: Well, I say this, although we might not predict what's going to happen in the future. Maybe Well, we can predict that no one's going going to get fooled when they're out on their uh flea market trip this weekend I can we can only hope yeah

1:20:36 Thomas: That's the opposite of this, though. I don't understand. All right. Well, thanks so much, Heather, as always. And we'll see you next week for the thrilling conclusion. All

1:20:46 Heather: We'll see you no

1:20:47 Clip: Thank you for being, say we started from the bottom, now we're here, girl.

1:20:56 Thomas: There's only one thing left to do and that is thank our patrons uh can start with the new ones uh new patrons over on patreon .com slash law I hope you enjoy the goodies all this stuff and the not ads and uh why don't you why don'T you do it I'll let you do the new ones all

1:21:11 Lydia: Right. Our newbies. Welcome. Phil Ferne. Might I suggest taking up smoking? Caleb Morse. Olivia Smith. Cephander. Cassie. Jessica gibson keith bennett aaron dickman mara nagler and then g root sign other symbol del gadel gdel I don't know miko how would you say that okay

1:21:31 Thomas: Right I'll do it next time look if you have to ask then uh oh you know what it is is it's girdle or whatever it's or whatever I think that so anything that's like

1:21:45 Lydia: So now I'm gonna look so stupid

1:21:46 Thomas: Like, nah, I but think, I don' t think everybody would figure this out. I think it's because, so what happens is in the spreadsheet export, like, special characters don't come through correctly. That's why sometimes we get stuck on certain things for a second. I think this would be that OE combination. Is that what it is, or it's an umlaut or whatever? I forget how. It's like G G, -O with an umlaut thing over it.

1:22:05 Thomas: That's my bet, but we don't know because it's the square root of some Greek character is what it comes through at. So, yeah. Maybe there's a way to import that in a way that doesn't do that, but I don't Know What It Is right now, and I haven't ever bothered to figure it out. So, there you go. And it's time to thank our Hall of Famers and our all -time greats. These the amazing folks who pledge at that five dollar level and above and we get to hang out with them once a month now so fun let start us off thank you so much to Merk, Bernese Mountain Dog, Casey Kahn, Democracy Cannot Survive Unregulated Capitalism, oh well Oh, yeah, well, we're about to test that, aren't we?

1:22:05 Lydia: Literally root sign yeah yes it's the best yeah my god yep

1:22:43 Thomas: Testing that theory more and more every day. James H. And actually, yeah. It's already unraveled a bit. So, I think we know what's going on. Legal Bagel. Live Not By Lies. Childless Local 47 Chapter. Fourth Circuit Attorney Reluctantly Changing Her Font. Vehicular man's laughter doesn't always play his podcasts with others in the car but when he does he prefers the lydia edit sex and gender are different things Apprentice of Adventure still rooting for the hamburgers to deliver more timely justice than the current system unfrozen caveman lawyer Nick Fish doom old dads rip into it until it is done weird A Negative Phenomenon, cavalri quick update ovechkin is 17 away from the record only 878 to go that might be like as of now I think that just happened crazy

1:22:54 Lydia: Okay. That's my favorite. Thank you. Wow.

1:23:39 Thomas: You he had an empty narrow with 0 .1 seconds left it's funny yeah yeah it just barely got went in and yeah in no way does it do that but I like that I

1:23:39 Lydia: All right. Timely. What? Oh my gosh. Like this countdown. It helps us tell time. For you it does. Maybe. That was the day that Ovechkin got

1:23:57 Thomas: You gotta fight for your dex partay jay sink there's a rocket dog in my pocket moopsie great now I have to go back to changing my name every month except you you haven't so do it

1:24:06 Lydia: Don't. We're waiting. We are waiting so patiently and you never do. Do yeah is

1:24:10 Thomas: And a bunch of those symbols that I can't read sorry et nope no no thomas freeman cajun a cajun killa your turn

1:24:18 Lydia: That a patron name or is it my turn fraud

1:24:21 Thomas: That was a bigger room if you start talking I'm gonna be so mad we're

1:24:26 Lydia: Fishy hates everything chris simpson love the extra episodes gun owning liberal who knows that root cause mitigation and gun control are both important liberals own guns to support root cause litigation not ineffective gun control I feel like I'm going crazy yeah gun control works see australia Yeah.

1:24:41 Thomas: Getting the lyrics expanding yeah it's spreading yeah

1:24:45 Lydia: They're all going to become without gun control. This isn't a Patreon name and I'm not reading anything right now. I just personally think Legal Eagle is so handsome.

1:24:47 Thomas: I love too that like that liberals on guns team is a long time long time patron and that person's been like quarantined like either side is like a no actually person it's a gun control sandwich

1:25:04 Lydia: It's a little sandwich. Chelsea Shudtz, the Cincinnati Kid, Bob Loblaw's Law.... Podcast, Philly Basement Bar is back open and isn't taking the shit lying down. Elect thomas smith president american honky -tonk bar association baltic hotel baltic baltic Philip Kizer, hors d'oeuvres in the court before we report in response to the renaming of the gulf of mexico mexico is changing the name of actor john ham to juan carnitas I like that corn land a string of unpronounceable characters I

1:25:33 Thomas: Weird yeah juan carnitas is actually a cool name

1:25:42 Lydia: Know a stringofunpronounciblecharacters Milo Meadsong is fighting petty tyrants malika chandler malcolm the dragon the precious variant big easy blasphemy RhondaTheDork.com, FRED R GROOTHUIS chris waltrip classic libtard and mitchell it just says mitchel I added the dead a little little yeah

1:26:04 Thomas: Mitchell yeah but he's uh mitchel yeah mitchells right well that's our show um one more reminder that uh rfk he's a steaming pile of shit uh I hope that brain worm finally finishes the job

1:26:16 Lydia: Of brain worms Cheryl Hines is dead to me yeah all the things I

1:26:24 Thomas: Shell hines they're right behind him all the time yeah even after all the news about all of the cheating and all the stuff. It's really, really weird. What, what, okay, okay. We can't start.

1:26:26 Lydia: Know it's so gross yeah thank

1:26:36 Thomas: But no, thank you for coming on and going through that. And thank you everyone for listening. And we'll see for what I expect is going to be a very important and very in -depth deep dive on, you know, just how much Elon Musk is breaking the government and breaking the law. So that's what we're, unless something else blows up, That's what we're likely to cover on Friday. So we'll see you then.

1:26:39 Lydia: You oh boy see ya

1:26:58 Clip: This podcast is a production of Opening Arguments Media, LLC, All Rights Reserved. It is produced and edited by Thomas Smith, who also provided the fabulous intro and outro music used with permission.