We Watched the Eastman Documentary Trump Screened at Mar-a-Lago

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:00 Clip: You must never, ever give up or give in. You must keep the faith and keep your eyes on the prize. That is your calling. That is you mission. That is moral obligation. That is mandate. Get out there and do it. Get in the way. Change happens because people care. The people have the power to make this life free and beautiful. To make this live a wonderful adventure.

0:00:38 Clip: I still believe with all my heart, America can be a place where no child is left hungry, no community is left behind, and no one gets told they don't belong. Country is always worth it.

0:00:57 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Opening Arguments. This is episode 1111, which Thomas Smith and the intro solo today because the plan had been to give you all a little gavel gavel content that we were working on because I like trying to post it over here when we can so so that everybody can hear it, the thing we recorded went wildly long, like three times the length, and so that threw off the editing schedule a little, so instead, I bring you all a nice, long, healthy chunk of Lotawful Movies 7, which is the John Eastman thing called Eastman, whiny little victim. It's called the John Eastmen dilemma. It is something. I can't wait for you to hear this. Just because, you know, oh, it is a bad movie we are riffing on, which I have a lot of fun with, but did a ton of research into the people behind this movie, and it is really interesting. Thing. I'm glad that you all will get to hear it. You'd like to hear the whole thing, of course, you've got to be on patreon .com slash law at that second tier and above. If you are at that 2nd tier and Above, you don't need to keep listening to this because this from here on out will just be the lot awful movies that you can go listen to in full. Without further ado, please enjoy a nice, healthy, free chunk of lot awful movie seven. Can't wait for you to hear it.

0:02:18 Thomas: And welcome to Lot Awful Movies 1007. right, we're two in a row. Time, doing it. Thomas, that over there is real life attorney Matt Cameron. How you doing, Matt?

0:02:29 Matt: Thomas, I'm craving the art and beauty of Lenny Riefenstahl today after watching this piece of shit propaganda.

0:02:36 Matt: At least the Nazis had Lenny Reifenstahl, I gotta what you will about the Nazis, and I certainly have.

0:02:41 Thomas: You take the controversial position that Nazi's not great. I don't, it's, it keeps, yeah.

0:02:46 Matt: But good at movies. You can quote me on that. This is triumph of the shill, I think, is what we're looking at here.

0:02:53 Thomas: And also joining us is Lydia. How you doing?

0:02:56 Lydia: Laughing in the background um I only watched this once as opposed to a law for christmas which I watched twice um

0:03:04 Thomas: Let's tell them what we watched. We watched John Eastman's nose hair. That's it. That's the entire movie. That's that's the whole movie. That's not the entire fucking movie. There's no other part of it. Once that was featured in a close up for the first. Well, the whole move. But like the minute I saw it, there's no you cannot see anything else. There's nothing else you could look at except for John Eastmen's fucking nose hair, what I insane why how how how he he clean shaved his face too it's not like oh we caught him after he had been on retreat in the mountains for yeah it's like it's no he specifically did trim his beard it's clean shave but like oh there's a one nose so there'sa little nose there'sabushel an entire just a of broccoli coming out of his nose or

0:03:32 Lydia: Could have trimmed up a little bit. Yeah Yeah, yeah. It's pretty significant. Ears, too.

0:03:51 Matt: It's the kind of thing that they would have caught if they had a director or a producer or a crew.

0:03:55 Thomas: A single eyeball everyone caught it there's no it's the only thing in the movie I can't talk about anything else guys it's The Only Thing it's so bad this is not I'm just not a nitpick it's it's like how I just the insanity that it takes to do an interview a full movie it's not like oh sit down for two minutes oops nose hair a full hour of your big film that you've been that you're debuting at Mar -a -Lago that you like getting ready for. And have paid a billion dollars to CGI it out. If I were him, I'd have been like, Oh shit, messed up.

0:04:11 Lydia: It's egregious. Yeah. Mar -a -Lago. Yeah? Tell you, I'm hoping this happened because, you know, premiered at Mar -A -Lgo, front row, Donald Trump's right there, Eastman is a few seats down and there was this video I saw on Instagram of someone like recording John Eastman watching himself you know and then he like looks over to Donald Trump to like see how how Trump is reacting to it and like he's smiling Donald Trump has no reaction and so I'm hoping that like in Donald Trump's mind he's just thinking about the nose his hair also.

0:04:59 Thomas: Yeah. I'll Trump watched this, it would be the famous Simpsons joke where it's all tense in the courtroom. And and of zooms in on homer and he goes hey like that's all that's going on in his brain trump has no interest less than zero interest in this film I he probably did eastman a solid or was eastman flattered him enough to debut it but there's no chance that trump followed or cared about a single word of this other than maybe when they started talking about like how he actually won but like he doesn't care about john eastman's like legal crusade now like he does it doesn't matter to him

0:05:32 Matt: But his name's in it a lot, so that probably kept him awake.

0:05:34 Thomas: He probably perked up a little bit well I guess you guys it's called the eastman's nose hair dilemma I watched the nose hair fortunately other people I think on this recording were able to hear or see any other part of it so um I think they should have you covered but I've covered my bits I'm gonna leave I'm out of here did the nose air which

0:05:43 Lydia: Man.

0:05:53 Matt: Yeah, it took me a very long time to watch this movie. It's an hour -long movie, and I had to stop it every 15 or 20 seconds to look something up or take notes or just yell.

0:06:02 Lydia: Yeah, I know. An hour and four minutes. The Eastman Dilemma, Lawfare or Justice. And this was produced by a company called Madison Media Fund. And if you're saying, hmm, never heard of that production company.

0:06:16 Thomas: Major studio is is that? Yeah.

0:06:18 Lydia: Yeah, so there they an interesting story there. I went on a very deep dive to figure out what the heck this company was, because if you go to their website, there's not any information there. It just says taking back the movies one story at a time

0:06:34 Thomas: I'll I'll tell you what they don't do. Make films. I know they don'T do that. Cause this, this one is not a film.

0:06:40 Matt: They one yet.

0:06:43 Lydia: It it says current project and it lists the eastman dilemma watch the film and but then they have this thing called producer circle film library and you you look through it and you think oh maybe they're involved with these and it's like blackfish and you know like some big movies arrival I was like what american sniper So what it is, it's films that free speech advocate thought leaders, is how they phrased it, have created. So they consider them as like allies. And here's where you can watch the films that they've worked on

0:06:43 Thomas: For one on that one. Oh wow. Arrival. What? Oh my God. It's

0:07:15 Lydia: With other production studios. Studios.

0:07:17 Thomas: Like the early, early internet where you had to like link other meaningless sites to try to like get any sort of, yeah.

0:07:24 Matt: Roll. Yeah.

0:07:24 Thomas: Like pre -Google, you know, and all that. That's how you had had to do it here's other things on the internet that you might actually like okay are we a website now I

0:07:34 Matt: So what is the deal? They haven'T made any of their movies, right? This is a front for the Claremont Institute. It has to be Eastman's employer.

0:07:40 Thomas: Think it would look a lot better if it were yeah

0:07:42 Lydia: Of, not totally. So I ended up finding this like really random early draft of their website that they did through Squarespace. And it was titled like Decagon Tarantula Knack 5. I don't know why, but it says Madison Media Fund and it has like the producer circle and, you sample catalog, all those things that they have on their actual website that they're using now. If you scroll through this, it has a lot of language here that they did not use in their current website. So it says, Hollywood has caved to the progressive left. Over half the country now struggles to find entertaining content that isn't full of toxic messages and social justice garbage. Madison Media Fund is fighting back. Here it is. Award grants to filmmakers who create movies with uplifting messages without shoving any woke madness at the audience um I think what's happening here is that kind of sort of claremont institute um forward and wanted to do this and then the madison media fund is they're the production company but like they also contributed some of the money but it definitely was not funded by them because I looked at their their non -profit it, 501c3. I looked at their material there, and they report $0 in revenue, $0 in assets, $1 in liabilities. I don't know what is going on. It's very strange. But this is something that is typical of folks I'm going to be talking about that are producers on this film I guess quote unquote yeah

0:09:09 Thomas: You just scare hey we'll just do a scare quote on the on whole episode instead

0:09:13 Lydia: Yeah

0:09:13 Thomas: Of a trigger you note trigger warning just everything you just said producer of film of website yeah information uh words it just everything is scare quoted oh

0:09:19 Matt: Movie, documentary, yeah.

0:09:20 Lydia: I know I know yeah yeah they're an original website talked about like a mentorship program that they were developing um they want to hear what your story is even if like you're new to filmmaking and how like we can work together um how much they fund oh they wrote films with budgets from one thousand to ten $10 ,000 can receive grants between $500 to $5 ,000, funding up to 50 % of your production budget. Then how to apply. You guys want to email them? Yeah, if we have an idea, we can just send it to them and see if they'll give us money.

0:09:50 Matt: I got some ideas. Take their money. From there, zero dollars.

0:09:56 Lydia: Yeah, I from think what's going on is the behind this is named Gary DePue. And he is currently now a a serial entrepreneur. Let me give you a little rundown of some of the companies had. So Avalon Family Films, Avalone Entertainment One, Avolone Productions Two, those are all separate entities. One of the things that he created from Avaline Family Filmes was Jack and the Beanstalk. Wallace Shawn was in that. It was a real movie. That's the only real movie that Avalonne ever did. Work Productions, Case Market LLC, Madison Media Fund, Majeure Productions, the Four Circle LLC, Long Claw Incorporated, which I can't find anything about.

0:10:20 Matt: That was a real movie.

0:10:35 Lydia: It it said like a very vague statement like like for business purposes. I don't know. Morning Financial LLC, Oathkeeper Inc., which was a cryptocurrency that he started and decided to call it Oath Keeper.

0:10:35 Thomas: Claw oh

0:10:49 Matt: Not great.

0:10:50 Lydia: Yeah, that has since been suspended. That is no longer an active cryptocurrency because it did not do well. It was like point zero zero zero two cents or something per share. Then Las Abuelitas, which was very interesting to me because I was like, where is that coming from? And where it's coming from is from his husband, Andre Depew. And he is also listed as a producer on this movie. De Pew is someone who is, very he's active on Instagram. I spent a lot of time on his Instagram .I think I accidentally liked one of the pictures and I was like, oh, God.

0:11:26 Lydia: I was really worried about it. But I was, you know, I was looking through his stories, too. So like, maybe he has noticed that I'm stalking his page. But has pictures with right wing folks all the time. Lots of pictures with Donald Trump, the three of them, Gary, Andre, and Donald Trump with Donald trump, Jr. Eric, Laura, like everybody, they're taking pictures, they spend a lot of time at Mar -a -Lago. And Andre Depew, I'm pretty sure he's 27 because found his Medium blog and he wrote something back in 2020 and said he was 23. So I'm Pretty Positive that means he's twenty seven. Gary Depewe is sixty four. And I'll tell you how I know this in a minute. But let me explain a couple other other things. In my search of Andre Depew and who this guy is, I found his Spanish tutoring page on ClassGap. You could do a lesson for $18 for or you could buy a pack of 10 for $13 a lesson. Anyway, he seems like a perfectly nice man. He's from Colombia originally. Intentionally. When I scroll down to the reviews, there's only one. It says a student review, and there's Only One with a attached to the star rating. And guess who it's from? Gary DePue. It's says, I have taken many online classes, but this one is the best I have tried. The instructor, Felipe Martinez, prepares customized

0:11:25 Thomas: We're made everyone jump out of the window right now what oh

0:12:47 Lydia: Lessons for me, and work at my pace. I don't waste time reviewing basics I already know and we don't work faster than my comfort level. It also helps that he's very nice and has a sense of humor. I actually look forward to my classes. Thank you, Class Gap.

0:12:49 Thomas: My god my God also

0:13:00 Matt: Well, that's sweet.

0:13:00 Thomas: Will you you marry me this

0:13:02 Lydia: Yeah, and the Medium blog was the same thing. It would show like a hundred claps and I was like, oh wow, a lot of people are reading Andre's stuff on Medium. And what it was was just Gary DePue and Andre clapping or whatever and I guess I don t know how they did a hundred of them, but they did a hundred reactions and stuff. All the comments are always like the two of them. It's very strange. It is so weird.

0:13:24 Thomas: Is insane so sorry who this is the people behind you okay they're behind the fund

0:13:30 Lydia: Media Fund, yes, this organization that reports zero dollars in revenue, zero dollars in expenses, like zero dollars across the board. When I was looking at Las Abuelitas, us. It says it's like a food truck, but then it also has like a subsidiary like cleaning company. And I was like, what the fuck is going on? And eventually I was like, is going on. I'm not I'm not done.

0:13:53 Thomas: Lydia accidentally unearthed a multinational conspiracy and money laundering and human trafficking you

0:14:00 Lydia: Like I am going to figure out what is happening here. And again I'm just saying like all these companies associated with Gary Depew Andre Depeow I'm clicking through on open corporates like trying to figure out who's who for everything um looking at the registered addresses it's either their condo that they lived in when they were in Pasadena that they no longer live in they They moved to Florida. They live in Boca Raton now. And or it's their townhouse in BoCA Raton that it's listed as their address. Essentially, I was like, OK, like is Madison Media Fund. They say that they're a nonprofit organization. Can' t see anything involving money, but can I at least see like confirmation that they' re actually a 501c3? And I got the IRS letter of approval as a 501c3 for Madison Media Fund, or so I thought. The EIN is actually tied to a company called Juntos Foundation when they were still in Pasadena, and that was registered as a 5009A2. And so now I'm like, I know.

0:14:56 Thomas: I've never even heard what is that I've ever heard of that

0:14:58 Lydia: And so I'm trying to figure out what the heck is happening here because they changed their the public charity status. And I think you can do that based on the types that these two were. And then they also changed their name and they changed their mission and they changed.

0:15:13 Thomas: One well if you're taking in zero dollars I don't yeah you probably change whatever you want you don't don't they don't do anything yeah a

0:15:17 Lydia: I guess it's just so weird. So weird.

0:15:21 Matt: Well, a is mission -related income. So presumably if the mission is making movies or serving food from a food truck, you can do a nonprofit, whichever thing it's doing, or crypto, I guess. I don't know. Know, or who knows what. No, I don't think that's a thing. Part of their empire, though.

0:15:33 Thomas: Non -profit crypto yeah

0:15:38 Lydia: Yeah. One of the other things that I stumbled on is one of these companies that Gary Depew started was before he and Andre were an item, I believe, because it was with this guy named Pascal Goupil. And he was involved with Avalon Entertainment as well. So I digging on him because to figure out like what what this deal guy's is. And he was like the house manager for Gary Depew. And then I found a resume that Gary DePEW put together for him, for this guy. And I'm like, okay, was there like a sexual relationship here too? I'm trying to figure it out. Because he essentially him all these other jobs. He became the chief financial officer for Avalon Family Entertainment entertainment as a result like yeah and then they started the fourth circle LLC that was a project that they started together and it's very strange so

0:16:12 Thomas: Probably what what is happening this is like we're we'RE Perry Mason and then Lydia's like the private detective that we hired to like yeah

0:16:35 Lydia: About to go to Florida to like figure out more stuff you guys

0:16:37 Thomas: She's giving us but geez how however much we're paying her double it she's got all this information about stuff so this this is the medicine media fund but that's that who made it or did they just give some money to some people who don't know anything about movies to make it

0:16:52 Lydia: They are the production company yes

0:16:54 Matt: The front, at the very least, because the executive producer is Tom Klingenstein of the Claremont Institute. He's the head of the Clarmont Institute, so I just think that the Claremmont Institute didn't want to put their name on this, obviously, because they want to make it look like somebody was interested enough to make this movie, which, again, I do not think this is even legally a movie. I think it's a glorified YouTube video.

0:17:12 Thomas: Is there a legal definition if If there is, then yeah, it's not.

0:17:16 Matt: Was actually actually considering what the league I mean as what I pointed out there's no certainly no union involvement there'sno crew there's and there's not director listed which is kind of a red flag movie wise yeah

0:17:24 Thomas: Okay, that's the first thing that's made any fucking sense that anyone has said today. Yeah, this wasn't directed. No one directed it. First note, chip trim your fucking nose hair!

0:17:36 Lydia: Thing I want to get to is a little bit more on Gary Depew, because I mentioned he's like a serial entrepreneur now. He did not start that way. I Depew you went know to USC um had started doing like films when he was in high school um millimeter films with uh best friend who I will get to in a second also um when he went to USC, he and his best friend both went. His best friend went to the drama department and was studying theater and acting. And Gary went into business. But because they best friends, he spent a lot of time with them. And he decided he wanted to start some extra work. You know, it's decent money or whatever as a college student. And he actually found out that he could make even more money and have even steadier work as an extra um if it was considered a special skill or um uh I guess of individuals if they had one of their limbs amputated and gary depew it does not have one of his legs and so he became like a peg -legged robot um peg leg pirate um was

0:18:39 Thomas: Right

0:18:39 Lydia: In the last episode of MASH.

0:18:39 Thomas: Well this and this is what the 80s or something 70s

0:18:41 Lydia: Yeah, late 70s. Literally the last episode of MASH, he was, you know, someone who lost their leg in in the war. He is not a good actor. And he recognizes that I listened to an interview with him like he started getting an improv when he moved to and Florida. I listened To an interview With his improv teacher on his Improv Teachers podcast.

0:18:43 Thomas: Yeah okay interesting

0:19:05 Lydia: He, yes, I did. I did write

0:19:05 Thomas: My god no you didn't I'm sorry this is what you did instead of watching it a second time I guess this is worse matt

0:19:11 Lydia: A book about this guy.

0:19:14 Thomas: Are you happy with what you've done okay

0:19:15 Matt: Does

0:19:16 Lydia: You broke Lydia. So he, recognized he wasn't a good actor. But he saw that like, could step into like the producer role and like turn and films out from the administration side with his business background. So anyway, one the first films that he did that with is something called The Willies. I don't know if you guys have ever heard of it. It's kind of like scary ghost stories around the campfire with a bunch of like you know, Sean Astin's in it. Um 1990 was the willy's and it was a like paramount movie release or whatever you know like straight to movie thing um he said that they raised a hundred thousand dollars and then they sold it for two hundred thousand dollars so he's in the mode of like raise money to produce something that is I guess, and then hope someone else pays more money for it. And I think he's just been doing that over and over and ever.

0:19:41 Thomas: What year what he wow oh my God he's

0:20:06 Lydia: And so the reason I mentioned the Willie specifically is it was directed by Brian Peck. Have you guys heard of Brian Peick?

0:20:07 Thomas: Got to be stopped oh that sounds familiar hmm

0:20:16 Lydia: First line of Gary Depew's IMDb article says, Gary DePew grew up in San Diego, making backyard with an 8mm camera alongside his, in parentheses, still best friend, Brian Peck. That strange that DePue wrote this himself? He wrote this IMDb biography. Why would he write Still? I bet a lot of listeners recognize the name Brian Peack as well. Peck was covered in the quiet on set documentary, which was pretty recently. It came out in early 2024, and it was about child actors, especially at Nickelodeon in the 90s and the abuse that they experienced. And Brian Peck is a convicted convicted abuser of children and one was convicted in 2003 and the child actor had never come forward until the very last episode of the Quiet Onset documentary and he revealed

0:20:31 Thomas: Sorry wow oh

0:21:09 Lydia: Himself for the first time it's Drake Bell um a a number of different shows. He was very well known from the early 2000s. And that is a dark and depressing thing to went down that rabbit hole too. Brian Peck, like him for very long time and then assaulted him at one point. But apparently like Like Drake's dad like he early signs and he was like concerned and like would keep an eye on them and like in and try and like always be involved. And then Brian apparently started trying to drive a wedge between Drake and his dad and succeeded and that relationship. And then, yeah, and put him in this position where then he was, like, calling Drake constantly, texting him constantly. Recently drake was like staying with his girlfriend at um girlfriend's house and the mother was like what's going on because he was like getting all these crazy text messages and it's just a very very sad story um

0:21:09 Thomas: My god but he was convicted in 2003 so

0:22:04 Lydia: Was convicted in 2003 um he has done work since um

0:22:08 Thomas: This is one of his old grooming buddies you're saying they're grooming do

0:22:10 Lydia: And best friend since high school is staying his best friend there There were 41 letters of support of Brian Peck when this court case happened. It's know, people like, like Ryder Strong, James Marsden, like these people that came out that did not expect this from him. They were really surprised. But other child other actors have since come through and said there have been weird things that Brian Peack did did to them, too. Like of the child actors in The Willies, the 1990 film that he directed, said that Brian like Peck tried to like watch him change in a hotel room and are children and it's just it's so disgusting. And

0:22:43 Thomas: You guys ever think that like q anon was right every everything but in reverse like there's actually a conservative pedophile of human trafficking human ring wow

0:22:48 Matt: Reverse. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

0:22:53 Lydia: It's so funny you say that because there this like tweet from someone who's really, really MAGA. And they're like, hey, you Eastman Dilemma, did you guys look into Madison Media Fund at all before like you started making this documentary? Because this Gary DePue guy says that he's still friends with Brian Peck, convicted, you know, child molester. You your research, you conservatives.

0:23:15 Thomas: They're not going to oh

0:23:17 Lydia: It was just, it was so interesting because like, yeah, that saved the children movement, right? And like, you have to go like two steps and you find another person.

0:23:25 Matt: Have just run like several laps around Maggie Haberman, I want to point out. Just so you're aware of this, the official New York Times review of The Eastman Dilemma is, it is unclear who produced the movie.

0:23:35 Lydia: Maggie, call me. I'll help you out, girl.

0:23:38 Matt: Dateline, West Palm Beach, Florida, January 6th, 2025. That is all she has to say about the movie, it is clear who produced it. It is unclear, who produced The Movie. Good work. You've done The New York times.

0:23:49 Matt: It is now clear who produce The Movie, and

0:23:50 Lydia: It's very clear who produced the movie Gary Depew his young young husband Andre who posts a lot of thirst traps on Instagram and I'm very like curious about when that relationship started I don't know guys like it's it's Very Strange I will continue to look into these people because like I it will never end honestly I will find out what is at the root of this before before I die.

0:23:53 Matt: I don't like it. Say, this sounds like the profile of the kinds of people who hang out at Mar -a -Lago, though. Like, it is such a weird zoo, a human zoo. And oh, also, this is not on his IMDb. He is not a producer on this. He's not anything. This isn't on IMDб, because again, not to repeat myself, not a movie.

0:24:16 Thomas: For sure yeah right

0:24:19 Lydia: My gosh, I know. No, mm -mm. Yeah, it's not real.

0:24:28 Matt: Not at all.

0:24:29 Thomas: So so the only way we're tying it to him is that it's on the madison media fund website is that or is there any way

0:24:36 Matt: He's listed.

0:24:36 Lydia: Listed in the film as a producer at the end credits, and then, yes, Madison Media Fund, he is the, I think he's the president, and, then, like, Andre is the executive director or something. I don't know. They switch off, you know, who's what for all the companies, so. So, yeah, yeah.

0:24:38 Thomas: Gotcha gotcha I

0:24:49 Matt: Obviously Maggie didn't watch the movie, because she would have seen that. Oh well.

0:24:56 Thomas: Show is brought to you by Rocket Money. Folks, I've told you time and time again, and it's still true. I love Rocket Money, I used it before they were a sponsor, and I'll tell you why. It is so easy these days to subscribe to things and forget about it. Everything is a subscription. Every single thing now. That's the new age we live in. We if subscriptions have, you know, gotten out of hand for you, as they have for me, you need to try Rocket Money. Is a a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. Know a lot of you in the new year will want to be saving money. That's a resolution that I certainly have. Rocket Money is a great way to do that. Think about it. If you don't keep track of this, if you let, you two, three, four subscriptions that you're not using get out of hand, think adds up month to month. Because if you're anything like me, the months just fly by like minutes. It's crazy. You don't want to lose track of that. It's not just about subscriptions. Money's dashboard also gives you a clear view of your across all your accounts. Help you create a budget with custom categories. You can get alerts if your bills increase in price or if there's unusual spending activity. Has so many amazing features. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of 500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's premium features. Your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney .com slash opening today. Rocketmony .com slash opening. Rocketmany .com slash opening

0:26:26 Lydia: Right. Well, should we talk about the movie?

0:26:28 Matt: I'd rather not.

0:26:28 Thomas: Don't yeah I said jeez that was that was incredible I that's I'm like like genuinely just disturbed by this. You know, it's like so much of it ends up being this, like how, how often do we look into it? Do we just need to do Blue Anon, but unironically, like, do we just, I mean, this is okay.

0:26:33 Matt: Real reporting. Scoop.

0:26:50 Thomas: Anyway. So a possible, possible sex offender, or at least best friend of a sex offending.

0:26:55 Lydia: Yeah. Well he's very clear he's best friends with him still. So, yeah.

0:26:57 Thomas: Clearly that's not, yeah. That's not not alleged that's a admitted admitted best friend of child actor groomer uh jeez uh is behind it

0:27:00 Lydia: A convicted sex offender. Yes. Yep. Yeah he was like like Pickle Boy. I don't know know if you guys ever watched um like Kenan and Kel and all that and everything but like like he had on -screen appearances too this Brian Peck guy but yeah mm -hmm

0:27:18 Matt: Should probably just real quick remind everybody who John Eastman is before we get started. It is John Eastmen Week at Opening Arguments, but maybe you're not keeping up. Maybe you're listening to this out of order. Maybe be. You just woke up from a merciful coma. As it is, John Eastman is pretty much the architect along with Kenneth Chesbrough of the January 6th events. Essentially, he put everything into motion that rolled up into January 6. You can go back and listen to OA 1108 if you want to hear the whole story about how they were responsible for it. Has grown increasingly radical, but he has always been associated with the Claremont Institute, which is a hard right radical organization pretty right of the Heritage Institute that went full MAGA and has been very Trump -supporty the whole time. And Eastman was brought on as a campaign attorney, famously wrote a couple of memos that set up the idea that Mike Pence as vice president could reject certificates. And we're going to hear him explain himself in this movie. The entire purpose of this movie is for him to not only explain himself, but to be valorized for the things that he did and to be the hero of the January 6th story. It is very strange to me that they debuted this movie on January 6th. That's just a real in -your -face kind of thing. More I think about it, that's just the weird thing to do. Like, he's proud of it. Doesn't

0:28:24 Matt: That seem strange?

0:28:24 Thomas: Matt he's proud of it I don't know what you're talking about yeah

0:28:28 Matt: I forgot. You're right. Hard to imagine, but he is.

0:28:32 Lydia: Movie starts with with voiceover that you cannot discern because it's just newsreel talking over each other while a quarter spins and

0:28:40 Matt: A very inception moment. I had this thought of like, am I living a nightmare right now that's never going to end? Is this coin going to continue you flipping forever that's really all I could think of was inception yeah yeah and

0:28:47 Lydia: It'll never settle down. And mercifully, it does. Then it means that we're going to see John Eastman. So they set him up. And the first thing I wrote while I was watching this weirdo thing was we have to show Eastman walk in instead of him like kind of being settled in the seat because we want to get footage of a mic in the frame. Like, why is that happening? This yes.

0:29:09 Matt: Antiquities he's got like statue heads and stuff yeah

0:29:11 Lydia: Lots of heads in that office. Yeah.

0:29:13 Matt: A little touches I guess and

0:29:15 Lydia: And so so they're setting up this question. And the person who's leading the interview, who we have no idea who it is, he asks Eastman, was it worth it? And then we like cut to, you title sequence. Lens yes who is the narrator I can't figure this out either like and it's so bad it's

0:29:29 Matt: Then is this what this is when the will arnett style narrator kicks in yeah I don't we'll never know no credits yeah

0:29:37 Thomas: I hope we have at least one clip of the just the absolute jarring transition between the silent interviews and the narrator who's at full blast.

0:29:44 Lydia: Sound mix yeah yeah

0:29:46 Matt: Actually if you got a 225 we can hear the will ornette style narrator And you can hear how weird this is.

0:29:51 Thomas: Please. Thank you. OK.

0:29:52 Matt: I was really jarred by this.

0:29:56 Clip: Yes. I jumped at the opportunity. Okay, let's back up. Who is this guy who the literal president of the United States turned to at this critical juncture? I'm John Eastman. I'm a former professor of constitutional law, and I run a public interest.

0:30:09 Matt: Tone. It's just a weird tone shift to do like Joe Bluth suddenly out of nowhere. I just, I don't know. I'm like, is there going to be stuck with this narrator for the whole movie? Kind of, not really. He's not going to come up that often, but he will occasionally jump in. There's no official questioner asking questions.

0:30:12 Lydia: Let's back up

0:30:25 Matt: There seemed to be like a guy off camera.

0:30:25 Thomas: It really is like they had some footage and they're like, please, can anyone can anyone make this a movie and someone was like I'll give it a try and did four percent of the work and then died and because there's like okay who is and then like it come he comes in a couple more times way way louder than everything else and the rest of it is just footage that is you know that's it it's just footage there's no like the opening is so weird there's No credits really I mean there's a couple things at the end but there's opening it's bizarre are.

0:30:43 Lydia: Way louder nope yeah

0:30:56 Matt: Yeah. And we're sitting there in his fancy office with his antiquities, and he's telling us about what a great job he did on January 6th. Then suddenly we've got this guy being like, hey, who is this guy? It's just, what are we going for? I don't even know. There's no director, obviously. So then we goes straight into his theory of the case. He's going to give us his best possible explanation of his terrible actions. I And think it's worth playing its entirety from 320, just so you can hear him explain himself. Now, he's going to be talking about an Oval Office meeting, and he's going to make this sound like on January 4th, two days before.

0:31:23 Lydia: January 4th over and over and over again that's

0:31:28 Thomas: He repeats himself at least twice, right?

0:31:32 Matt: Yep. And

0:31:33 Lydia: The only date that he will talk about in this movie

0:31:35 Thomas: First

0:31:35 Matt: Because he has already written, remember, he's already written two memos explaining the coup in detail. He claims that the first one shouldn't be looked at, and you should look at it. We're going to link to it, of course.

0:31:42 Thomas: One doesn't count. Get one free coup memo, Matt. Everyone knows that.

0:31:45 Matt: That's right. One freaking memo. Yeah. But the second one isn't that much better, and they both say that Vice President Mike Pence has the ultimate authority to reject votes, which is not true. And his defense is going to be that I talked Trump down from rejecting the electoral votes to delaying the votes, which Mike Pence also can't do as vice president. It's just about as illegal. I think it's as illegal.

0:32:05 Lydia: I think the other striking thing about this and folks and will be able to hear it from Eastman himself, but this emphasis on January 4th, he is making it seem like that's the first time he talked about this ever. And it's not. Because from his position, oh, if I just brought this up for the first Time January 4, in two days, that wouldn't have been enough time to be responsible for this, right? Something else was happening. No, John Eastman, you're a liar. And you're doing this purposely to mislead folks.

0:32:21 Matt: Not at all. Exactly?

0:32:35 Thomas: It's not only that. I think in addition, I think a key part of his case is that, look, we found these irregularities and they didn't have time to go over them they didn't have time to fix them so they needed to delay the count and so I think that's another way to artificially create that timeline so it's like oh well yeah they gotta delay it because it's only just calling it to attention on the fourth

0:32:59 Matt: And I'm glad you brought that up because we have to try to keep track of the lies and misrepresentations and misdirections. And many other things besides the memos, shortly before the certification date, Elector Day on December 14th, Ronna McDaniel got a call from Donald Trump with John Eastman, introducing her to John Eastmen. And she said, oh yeah, I know about this plan. I'm ready to help. The RNC was on board. So this is not a last minute kind of Hail Mary play. I mean, it sort of ended up being, but what it turned into. But let's hear him talk about his heroic work on this starting

0:33:16 Lydia: -hum. Mm -ham. Yeah. Mm-huh.

0:33:30 Clip: My role was to explain what I thought the Constitution allowed for resolving disputes if electoral votes had been submitted that were were improperly certified because the laws had not been followed and that's clearly what we had. There were other people that had urged that the vice president could simply reject the Biden electors and substitute in Trump electors, and gavel Trump president. And the vice president said, point

0:33:56 Thomas: We have I'm sorry the graphics they're like they're sort of done like a it's a little bit Vox-esque you know like a little but in that style but the art they grab so it got these he's like we out backgrounds yeah that make it has this like aesthetic that vaguely looks like something you'd see in a real thing but then the the problem is the pictures they use for that are often really dumb so in the one it was like trump which it kind of looked like it made sense like it's it's reconstructing a meeting and it's using like cutouts and whatever but then pence's picture was like completely different like he was presiding over the senate almost like it didn't make any And then just now when they said Biden's electors and sub in Trump's, the electors are clearly from a

0:33:57 Lydia: The graphics, I know. Yeah.

0:33:58 Matt: The graphics. So lazy. Cutouts, I think I'd call them. Yeah.

0:34:42 Lydia: Stock

0:34:42 Thomas: Stock photos of a diverse boardroom meeting or something like it's just like diversity. The stock, stock photo. Like that's what it is. And both of them are that. So it's like, instead of Biden's electors that are stock photo of diverse, like business looking people.

0:34:43 Lydia: Photo. Yeah. Yeah. Blue background.

0:34:59 Thomas: Yeah. It's the same. It's like the, it's, it'S like a different photo from the same set of stock photo it's so weird yeah right

0:35:04 Lydia: With red background. Yeah.

0:35:06 Matt: But I have to point out, since you stopped, that he says here, other people pointed out that Pence could reject the electors. Now, where did they get that idea, John? Maybe from your memo of December 24th, when you sat down and shat this thing out, in which you said, and I'll just read it, talking about Pence. This is step three of his six -step plan. Then. The end, Pence announces that because of the ongoing disputes in the seven states, there are no electors that can be deemed validly appointed in those states. That means the total number of electors appointed is 454. majority of electores appointed would therefore be 228. They're at this point 232 for Trump, 222. Pence then gavels Trump as reelected. I just wanted to read all of that so people understand. He put that in writing. He said, Pence can reject them and we can reduce number the of electors so that we get there to the majority. I am not not going to let him sit there and say that he did not come up with this idea. Okay, we

0:35:13 Thomas: Me I'm other people yeah yeah

0:35:55 Matt: Can keep going.

0:35:56 Lydia: Continue

0:35:57 Clip: Blank, do you think I have that power? And I said, well Mr. Vice President, it's an open question. I happen to think in the circumstances we have here, which is the Republican and electors had not been certified by anybody that it was the weaker argument but even if he had that power I thought it would be foolish to exercise it precisely because the state legislatures had not certified the alternate slate of electors but a number of the state legislators have written vice president pence and said their elections were illegally conducted and the electors for biden should not have been certified after an illegal election jurisdiction and they wanted time to assess the impact of that illegality and then report back. And if the illegality's impact was smaller than the margin, they would recertify Biden. But if it was bigger than the origin and they could determine that Trump had actually won when only the lawful votes were counted, then in order to give effect to the will of the people, the consent of the government, then Trump should have been certified. And that's what we were talking about in that meeting on January 4th in the Oval Office.

0:36:13 Lydia: Argument foolish it's just the graphics sorry

0:36:35 Matt: Because you stirred them up. Just wanted a whole episode on that minute of this. I mean, there's like, but just reading from the second memo, just to be very clear, in case you want to go and say, oh, no, that was just the first memo. Don't worry about that, Matt. VP Pence opens the ballots, determines on his own which is valid, asserting the authority to make that determination under the 12th Amendment and whatever precedents he thinks there are. And then he's got three different scenarios in which Trump wins, using this idea that Pence can reject the ballots. And he's presenting this as, oh, that's the weaker argument. First of all, it's not an argument. There's no actual good faith basis whatsoever for that argument. Acting as if the states are just begging them to do this, when at this point, all the state challenges have played out. At January 4th, we're way past the point where this is possible, where this at all legally possible. The entire legal team has bowed out, and Giuliani and Powell have been taking over the show.

0:37:44 Lydia: Well according to eastman and like just moments later in this clip he says there was cheating that went on and it never got its day in court

0:37:52 Matt: Talk about that. But again, though, for him to to say, even if Pence had that power, which I said in two different memos that he has, that Pence is the ultimate arbiter, it would be foolish. Well, that's good that your own advice was foolish. Thank you. That's great. Again, the idea that these are just kind of thought experiments. These are just some ideas we're putting out there to the people and we'll kick them around and see what happens.

0:38:13 Matt: This is what lawyers are supposed to do. Lawyers are also supposed to tell you when something is fucking illegal. So how about you do that? How about you just say, Donald Trump, Mike Pence, this is not going to work. This can't happen.

0:38:19 Thomas: Why in this story why did he write a memo why would you write a memo to be like oh here's a foolish argument for you yeah

0:38:32 Lydia: I did this work all this work for a foolish argument oh

0:38:36 Matt: He's going to downplay the memos quite a lot. We're not going to hear much about the memOS.

0:38:39 Thomas: And I I want to know what the truth is I don't yeah wouldn't you want to wait till we get

0:38:43 Matt: We'll get there to the memOs in a second, Aria. Then he goes on about the, uses the phrases consent of the governed and petition for redress of grievances a lot, right? Because those are fancy law phrases, just covering, right.

0:38:54 Thomas: I mean it's a small thing too I have to point out oh if the uh illegal votes is as big as the margin of whatever then we can certify trump it's like why would you assume a hundred percent of all just any irregularity would all be biden but that's that's a huge assumption like even if you wanted to say oh there's some shady stuff going on he talks the whole time as though the The only possible illegal activity that ever would have gone on would be pro-Biden when we know that not only is there not really that, there's also plenty of evidence of, yeah, like evidence of the right trying to do, like, if you're going to say, okay, there are irregularities, there is no chance that it's all Biden's side.

0:39:12 Lydia: Confirmed Yeah.

0:39:37 Matt: But did it affect the election? And he doesn't really talk about that either, if it actually would have made any difference at all in any of this, right? But when he's talking about fraud and cheating in the next few minutes here, what he's taking about is the COVID era changes in 2020 to make voting easier. That's what they're pissed about. That' what they don't want to talk about. That's what he keeps calling cheating. And let's say again, in the podcast appearance that he did with them, I think he did a pretty good job of continuing to call them out. I'm like, well, you talking about procedural cheating? Are They change the rules to make things easier. Or you're talking about some kind of conspiracy. And he never really nails down which one he's talking about. Because he's definitely getting conspiratorial in this. And I've listened to him. He has been on recently a right -wing shitty podcast tour. And have you ever really listened to like really shitty right-wing podcasts?

0:40:16 Thomas: Boy.

0:40:16 Matt: I hadn't really given.

0:40:16 Thomas: It's hard.

0:40:16 Matt: Like the ones that just stream and then just put the stream on Spotify. Thomas, it'll make you nuts. It's too much. Nobody edits these. They leave in all of the stuff where they're like, oh, you're freezing up. And then they're 30 seconds where they just, you know. Anyway, but he's been on the tour of some of the bottom of the barrel right-wing podcasts. And he was on one called Big Mig or something. He was talking about open conspiracy theories. The host is just going on and on about how the FBI did January 6th. And he's like, oh, yeah, no, interesting stuff to look into. Like, just not even, like, is where he's at.

0:40:46 Matt: Like, he's really at the bottom here. Anyway, okay, all right. So, I'm you not going to take a lot of time. I don't think we need to take all the time addressing the fact there was no substantial fraud in the 2020 election. I think everybody understands that. Let's just presume from the understanding of that. He's going to keep referencing it. There's going be a couple of minutes on it. It's not worth responding to. It just isn't. Sorry, I'm really... Okay, I got to take breath. Okay.

0:41:07 Lydia: Let

0:41:09 Clip: Memo that got disclosed in the press eight ten months later it was an An internal document shared with only a couple of people. It never got to Vice President Pence. It wasn't designed for that. It never Got to anybody on his staff. I don't believe it even was given to the president. And the memo has nine different scenarios. In

0:41:24 Matt: Of course it wasn't. To

0:41:28 Thomas: The found your bank robbery plans uh that was an internal document um that was not meant to be circulated

0:41:36 Matt: Be clear, I always shared that with the people who's going to do the bank robbery with. So yeah, I don't what you're talking about.

0:41:38 Thomas: The with the conspirator with my friend yeah with the internal what document

0:41:44 Matt: Okay I'm sorry mike pence was not his client like that I don't it doesn't matter that he didn't share it with vice president pence and it doesn'T matter that HE DIDN'T PERSONALLY SHARE IT WITH DONALD TRUMP nobody everybody knows that donald trump's not going to read anything he shared it with the campaign and he shared IT WITH PEOPLE LIKE MIKE LEE WHO WAS VERY SKEPTICAL BY THE WAY TO MIKE LEE'S MINOR CREDIT MIKE LEE CONSTITUTIONAL SCHOLAR FORMER I THINK THOMAS LAW CLERK UH NOT LIKE ANY OF THIS AND REFUSED TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT AND ARGUED WITH HIM SO I WILL GIVE HIM HIS DUE ON THAT

0:42:06 Thomas: Well that's weird because the whole thing is about how the the problem with eastman is that it's his client donald trump and then now he's saying well trump didn't even look at this well well, then how is it, for how his client, right,

0:42:18 Matt: HE'S SENDING IT TO THE CAMPAIGN LAWYERS AND YOU KNOW THEY WERE ALL

0:42:21 Thomas: Well, but then, is isn't that not how an attorney client relationship works, Matt, or am I, what am I not understanding?

0:42:26 Matt: If you serve it on your client's attorney, it's like if you're sharing it as part of it. Because he was retained formally by the campaign, I think, on December 6th. Yeah, yeah.

0:42:32 Thomas: The campaign, okay, okay.

0:42:34 Matt: Do this kind of consulting. And the real thing was that they wanted a document that they could point to. Clayton Clayton Mitchell requested that he write this because they wanted something they could send around to idiots like Jim Jordan. They So gave them on board. So they could say, here's a piece of paper that says we can do this. That's all they wanted.

0:42:47 Matt: And they got that from him. Can keep going. I'm sorry. Let's use the rest of it as I say. Yeah.

0:42:47 Thomas: That's all I need.

0:42:52 Clip: Five of them result in Biden winning. And the one that represents what I actually recommended in that Oval Office meeting, to delay and let the legislatures assess the impact of the illegality, that has two different paths specified if the legislature says we've looked at it and the impact is smaller than the biden margin then we recertify biden and biden wins but if in fact the impact was greater than the Biden margin and we can discern that Trump actually won the election then isn't consent to the government required that we certify the Trump electors instead but it's that path deferring to the state legislature to conduct that investigation that I urged in that meeting on january 4th

0:43:37 Matt: He's just pretending. He is pretending that somehow that Pence rejecting them so we can delay is different from Pence rejecting them and just electing Trump president. And obviously the whole purpose of the delay was that so they could have the MAGA people start harassing all these state legislators, the way we saw them do with county election officials and everything else until somebody gave and they got enough electoral certificates to make it work.

0:43:57 Thomas: Today's episode is brought to you by Quince. Folks, the new year gives you a chance to turn the page a little bit, and I'm telling you, you may want to turn the page on some of your wardrobe. I'm calling me out, and if anyone else feels called out, I can do about that. I blinked my my eyes and like a decade went by and I have too many clothes that are from a decade ago or more let's be real it's more than that but I'm is a massive help in refreshing my look a little bit modernizing it up to date into this you know millennium first off I Still think everyone needs Quince's Mongolian cashmere sweaters for $60 and speaking of New Year's resolutions there's no better workout motivation than some new activewear. Performance tees and tech shorts are perfect for any movement. If your New Years resolution has anything to do with saving money let me tell you, Quince is perfect for that because all Quince pieces are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. They do that because they partner directly with top factories, cutting out the cost of the middleman and passing the savings onto me and you. Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible manufacturing practices. Mentioned before that I got some new towels from Quince. I am enjoying those towels. Much towel per towel. My TPT ratio has gone up astronomically. I also have bought some of their workout gear, and I love it. It's fantastic. It got some shorts I love wearing. In California, those are good for me, 11 and a half months out of the year. Love Quince, I think you will too. Upgrade your closet this year without the upgraded price tag. Go to quince.com slash OA OA for 365-day returns, plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash OA to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash OA.

0:45:42 Matt: So yes, I'm looking at the memo. Well, that is the last scenario, and he's summarized it that way, other than the fact that the the vice president has no authority to do any of this. But I want to read in bold the part right after that, what he just talked about, in caps, bold, certainly. He's talking about his own plan. But this election was capital S stolen by a strategic Democrat plan to systematically flout existing election laws for partisan advantage. We're no longer playing by Queensbury rules, therefore. For. So he's saying we can cheat because they're cheating. That's what it says in this memo. This is the memo that he wants you to read.

0:46:16 Matt: This is the one he thinks is the good one.

0:46:16 Thomas: Because he made it sound like, oh, I just wrote out all the scenarios, you know, and like, you you know, several of them, but yeah, I gamed it out. But that sentence you read Matt, uh, that, suggests maybe something else what's going on.

0:46:21 Matt: Just gamed it. War games. Is literally saying we could punch below the belt because they have already stolen the election. He doesn't think you're going to go read the memo. Of course, he's showing the memo. Second He's completely writing off the first memo. But the first memo got the rolling. That was the point, was to get people excited about the idea. That the vice president might have this power. And then he fleshes it out in a way that, honestly, is just a few more words. It's, you know, it doesn't have the kind of Bond villain edge, but yeah, yeah.

0:46:50 Thomas: Just if hypothetically, let's say Matt, you're an unethical lawyer. Let's say you're a lawyer that's bad and you're going to do crimes. And I come to you and I'm your unethcial client or whatever. And I'm like, Hey Matt, can you come up with scenarios as to how we can steal an election? And then you you do a memo that has nine scenarios and three, know, five of them or whatever don't result in us stealing the election. That doesn't mean that like, that's a neutral document. That means, okay, I'm gaming it out to find the ways that we can steal the election, that'll be the important part of the memo.

0:47:23 Thomas: It'll Yeah, it's not like, even if you're, if you'RE trying to do a crime, again, we can go back to the bank robbery example. Okay, game out my bank robbery. How many scenarios result in me robbing this bank? Bank. It doesn't matter if it's like, well, I've come up with a hundred scenarios of the schedules of the guards and the transit and the whatever. And in 99 of them that you don't successfully steal from the bank, but in this one you do. That's not, this doesn't make it like a neutral document. That'S like, okay, we're finding the way to steal the bank.

0:47:22 Matt: The ratio is not the point. Yeah, right, right.

0:47:51 Lydia: Finding the way to get away with it.

0:47:49 Matt: Right. I would think something like embezzlement, right? If I wrote you up a memo of like, here's 10 different ways that you can steal from your company. And, you Know, some of these may not work out for you, but, you Now, some, some Of these look pretty legal.

0:48:03 Thomas: Five of them, you probably get caught or something, you know? Yeah.

0:48:06 Matt: Right and if I put in the memo you know I think some of your employees are stealing from you so this is fine you know they're cheating you can cheat right that's I mean it's it's a rough analogy but I just of this is how I understand uh at least from having taken a class in professional responsibility in law school and having passed the bar and the ethics exam none of us is how we understand lawyers are supposed to be working and the fact that he's defending himself and that he thinks he shouldn't have been facing bar dark discipline for all of of this, which we'll talk about.

0:48:27 Thomas: We're also going to hear from from the ethics teacher of the previous co -host of this show. So he's in this.

0:48:29 Lydia: Was gonna say. Yeah. Actually, why don't we go to him now? 820. Alan Dershowitz disagrees with you, Matt. So let's hear why.

0:48:40 Thomas: So, boy, this fucking guy.

0:48:37 Matt: Enter the Dersh. Yeah. Oh is actually, you have to play 810.

0:48:43 Lydia: 810.

0:48:43 Matt: I'm sorry. Because his opening line is incredible.

0:48:44 Lydia: Go for it.

0:48:46 Clip: Been following the easley case this is a law professor and was known as a distinguished lawyer and very knowledgeable constitutional law and I'm very sympathetic to him legally I didn't know him personally and politically we're on completely with different sides but my feeling is that the constitutionally appropriate way of challenging an election that one believes was unfair it doesn't matter whether it was or wasn't unfair if one believes an election was unfair the constitutionly permissible ways of challenging that election are as unclear as anything could be you can't go to a book and look up oh how do I challenge elections. This is what you do ABCD. No. You have to extrapolate through cases and the idea that somebody is criminally prosecuted for maybe taking the wrong route to challenging the election violates

0:49:04 Lydia: Eye roll.

0:49:14 Thomas: Kind of matters.

0:49:44 Lydia: God.

0:49:44 Clip: The rule of law, violates our constitutional prohibition on ex post facto laws and it's just plain unfair. But

0:49:52 Matt: Okay. Hold on. So many things, but first of all, Alan, challenging you elections is not that hard. It just varies state per state. That's all it is. Like Everything he says in this is completely disingenuous. Every single word, starting with politically, we're on completely different sides. Dershowitz obviously left the Democrats September 7th, I checked, of this year, but he's never really been much of a Democrat, especially once Trump came in the the picture.

0:50:15 Thomas: It's so... Don't blame you. It's So Rough. It's SO horrible.

0:50:18 Matt: But I'm the idea that it's just so confusing, how could we possibly know what the right way is? I mean, it reminds me of what you're saying to the bank robber. We can stick with this because it's like saying there's so many ways to withdraw from your bank account.

0:50:28 Thomas: Exactly. I mean, there's... You got your online portal. You got an ATM. What are those? Hose. You could just do a slip, I think, and like go right on it and then take it to, so like the idea, the

0:50:39 Matt: You could bring a gun into the bank. That's an option.

0:50:41 Thomas: Idea, no, you have to, you Have to not say that one, Matt. That's kind of blows the whole thing. Dersh didn't say, and you can steal it. Like he didn't Say that. But the idea that like someone for writing up a plan for how to withdraw money in a particular way is, is going to be charged with a crime that is just beyond the pale that that's effectively what he's saying god

0:51:06 Matt: Later, we don't have to play this, but he says that it was no different from what happens in his law school classroom, where people just kind of toss ideas out. And I immediately thought about Jeff in my professional responsibility class, who made a spirited case for about how sleeping with your clients is great, actually. It's like that.

0:51:20 Thomas: Can you check on where that guy is right now

0:51:22 Matt: Yeah, he's in New Jersey. No worries. That's exactly the right place for him. But, I mean, how about you put that in a memo and you know, that's attorney -client privileged. I'm going to write a memo to my client saying why I get to have sex with you. Like, I means, just come on. Like, we don't just throw out ideas in law school. It's not the same. I'm sorry. Okay. All right. Then he has to say that it was like Bush v. Gore, because they bring this up several times. Was a lawyer in Bush v Gore. Obviously, he was on the Gore side. He says there's a lot of creative thinkers. This is like that. And no, it fucking isn't. No. know. So has in the pages of the prestigious pages of the goddamn Daily Mail, he has made this comparison previously somehow trying to steal this election is something like Bush v. Gore. Nothing to compare here. Bush v Gore was a mess, as he points out.

0:52:05 Matt: Okay. All right. I've been putting it off. I don't want to talk about it.

0:52:06 Lydia: I I know. I

0:52:08 Thomas: Right yeah here's where we all get really bummed I did not know that this was is coming featured sorry for the cliffhanger, but I'm gonna have to leave it there. Really hope you enjoyed that. If you did, well, better go to patreon.com/law and join up at that second tier and above. To the rest of it. There's plenty more where that came from. Either way, thank you so much for listening and see you on Wednesday.

0:52:34 Clip: This podcast is a production of Opening Arguments Media, LLC, All Rights Reserved. It is produced and edited by Thomas Smith, who also provided the fabulous intro and outro music used with permission.