Dr. Rick on Trump's Terrible HHS, Continued; and, Trump's Surgeon General Nominee

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:17 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Serious Inquiries Only. This is episode 469. I'm your host, Thomas Smith. That over there is, I suppose, co-host, right? Lydia Smith. How are you doing?

0:00:25 Lydia: I'm good. I mean, I guess temporary co-hosts, sometimes I join.

0:00:28 Thomas: I'm not one for formality, so I just forget these things.

0:00:31 Lydia: That's true. Yeah.

0:00:32 Thomas: You know, actually, real life note. Someone did send message saying we ought to add you as a host to Dub-T-Dub on Apple podcasts. I don't know how. I forget how to do that, but we should. Good so we should yeah I'm taking this very important time of the show uh So we'll figure all that formality out. But at rate, how are we going to be talking about today?

0:00:45 Lydia: I, that would be nice. Aw. So in the last episode, we talked a lot about health and human services departments and some of the things that Dr. Rick from his experience working with some of these departments, what he sees as the some of the things to watch out for with the new Trump administration. But we weren't even able to finish up with so we're going to uh where we left off and hear about the rest of his thoughts uh starting with the FDA.

0:01:21 Thomas: Lots to talk about. We'll get on over to it after our usual break hey lose the ad support the show patreon.com/seriouspod look I did such a short promo for it and ad

0:01:31 Lydia: Stop complaining.

0:01:34 Rick: Mean, I think the other one that, uh haven't really talked much about yet that I think is another area of, of big concern is going to be the Food and Drug Administration.

0:01:42 Thomas: Which is already doing such a bad job and I don't blame them. It's, it's from already being gutted and you know, like it's already, man, yeah. It'S, it's just so rough already. Like the, the recalls and the, you know it just, well, I always mix up who does what, But, like, that's been a real issue, as I'm sure you can talk about.

0:01:50 Lydia: Interests. And yeah, yeah,

0:01:56 Rick: Well and that's what's so crazy is this is a huge administration the FDA like as you're talking about all these recalls like that's like the food part of it like whole drug part of is a completely other massive thing so know I work in biotech and you know the work that we do is is direct result so I guess to Before I jump to the FDA, because that's sort of at the end of this biotech story, but at the beginning of this biotec story is the NIH. So all of that research I was just talking about through the NIH being funded, lot of that research, when you do find that one breakthrough, gets spun out into a bioteх company. And those bioteh companies are learning and growing and building upon the research that is going on in the NIH age and is to incredible cures like CAR T cells for treating cancer, which you can take a person's own immune cells, their own T cells, and you can put in actually a little virus. You take their white blood cells out, you put in a little virus into that cell, and it begins to express what we call a CAR or antigen receptor on its surface. And that is actually just a little antibody that we engineer that can now go and kill the B -cell lymphomas and wipe out the cancer with your own immune system. Was first developed in these research labs and is now, you a commercial product that is healing, people from, from some types of blood cancer. Um

0:03:27 Lydia: Think that that's a good point about like the NIH funded studies often lead to commercial interests and, you biotechnology firms and stuff. And like one of the nominees, specifically the health deputy is O'Neill, and he's a science and technology investor. And like knowing Elon with money, like all these people with tons of money in this Trump Trump administration. I know a lot of them probably invest in firms like that. And do you think that they just don't see that connection or that?

0:03:51 Rick: Well

0:03:58 Thomas: He does. He just uses it for his rocket companies and then wants more of that money. He's not going to cut any of that. I'm not even joking. I mean, that is, yeah. They understand the government money for research when it is Elon Musk's companies. Is just grift.

0:04:07 Rick: I that's where I I do get a bit confused because yeah this seems like an administration that's going to be run by grift and so you would think that are they going to grift this

0:04:18 Thomas: Oh, do we need to get better grifter? Like, get grifters on our side. No, we don't need more grifter.

0:04:23 Rick: Well I mean I mean that may protect some of these areas or it may create some of this dissidence where you have have somebody like rfk saying like no more vaccines and like somebody elbows him was like I make a shit ton of money off vaccines buddy and he's like oh right more vaccines you

0:04:38 Thomas: Brain worm. Hey hey I actually have a lot invested in these don't get it yeah oh okay it's

0:04:44 Rick: I reorganized your portfolio where you were passed out last night after we hit that second bear yeah yeah you know at the end of this journey this through you you know, early research that, you know just understanding the mechanisms of what causes cancer. You know, I think we talked about that once before Thomas about how like, you can almost think of like cancer and auto -immunity as kind of two opposite ends of your immune regulation.

0:04:49 Thomas: Like venom or something yeah yeah I was that's funny that came to mind I was like where did I hear that and it was from you right

0:05:13 Rick: Yeah, yeah. So, you Know, a lot of cancer is actually thought to be like it becomes cancer when your immune system stops controlling it. Now it's, you KNOW It's thought that we might have these sort of malignant -like cells that are cancer, pre -cancer type cells that sometimes pop up, but the immune system comes along and is like, hey, you're acting weird. You're gone. It's like the bouncer, right? Understanding that was a huge breakthrough because before that, we were treating people with high -dose toxic chemicals that just kind of wiped everything out, and we hoped killed that the cancer before we killed you, right, And and where you actually understand the basis of cancer that you can make more precision treatments like CAR T cells that aren't going to just devastate your entire body that are, you your immune system have the upper hand again. In. Through that understanding and that funded research that is massive through the NIH, but then it is capitalized upon in biotech and the pharmaceutical industries, and you can have a lot of complaints about those areas, totally get it. At the end of that, and a lot of what people cry foul of being so expensive, is the FDA is that final approval body. So when When you're going to do a clinical trial, it's going to be under the supervision of the FDA. If you're gonna get a drug approved to go on the market, it has to be approved by the FDA itself. So they have huge power, you know, and I think I already saw some sensational headline that, you is calling for the revocation of the polio vaccine. You know, that would be the FDA revocating that, so the ones that, are sort of that gatekeeper on what medicines are even available to people so things like the pill or with the prexone or

0:06:54 Rick: You know yeah

0:06:54 Lydia: There's an entire section of project 2025 that specifically talks about abortion pills and it says that the fda needs to reverse their approval of Mifepristone and like drugs because the politicized approval process was illegal from the start is what they're saying so if if that's it's an avenue they want to go down, then we're not even talking about, you the court approach that they tried last year with the Mifepristone case. This is something where now you can move into the regulatory model, which Roger Severino is an expert in, the writer of this chapter of Project 2025. And he ProPublica got a hold of, man, a a lot of private training videos from the Heritage Foundation that they were offering to anyone who was like signing up to be you know part of this conservative administration the personnel call that they did they have all the videos I'll include the link in the show notes if people want to see it on Roger Severino's video is specifically about how to make the regulatory process work for conservatives and it's very it's like 45 minutes long and he talks about specifically how to work it and and I see like opportunities for entities like the fda um on

0:07:36 Rick: Man yeah do yep

0:08:04 Lydia: Who's in control like really moving into that movement and making a lot of changes to everybody's lives without even having to go the legal system around yeah

0:08:04 Rick: Right and and a lot of that is you know it'll be tied up in court so they'll try to but I mean when you're just making small policy changes changes within an administration, well, the courts tend to kind of give them a lot of leeway. So, you know, that's, that, that is scary. And, and the flip side of it of, you know, it's not just taking away already approved, proven safe, proven effective medications, but it's also, you know, my concern is, this you is an area of the food and drug administration, the FDA, I have a lot lot of respect for on their uh like of clinical trials and approval of drugs for the most part like these are experts these are highly qualified scientists that are being uh in and and are usually uh very political and you what happens if there's regulatory capture in that process you know that could be a terrifying world to live in where you get back to snake oil salesmen where ivermectin is now approved for for everything you know and also what I fear is that the moneyed interest that we were just referring to of all these different people could be affected through the fda of saying I want you to steer more business to these companies that I have stakes in you

0:09:25 Rick: You know I would hope that it can resist it but that's that's sort of the place that is the tough one for a second trump administration that I think many of us are feeling is we hoped a lot that first go around and we got through where we did with as much you know damage as we got but everybody learned after that right not just our side their side too you

0:09:44 Lydia: You have an organized right in now.

0:09:45 Rick: Know right so it's hard to hope and think that yeah Or feel very positive that these and file scientists and people really not driven by a political agenda, but driven by a passion that got them into these fields to begin with, will be able to sustain. I'm not sure. I think that there's going to be areas where they just get overridden. Sadly, another area I'm really worried about is the administration for children and families. Actually, I think like has like the second or third largest budget under health and human services. So, so

0:10:18 Lydia: Kind of stuff do they do?

0:10:19 Rick: This this is like really the safety net for families. You looking at you providing programs to help with like child support or childcare, Head Start programs, child welfare. So like, yeah. And so like all of these things that basically the republicans like don't want to help poor kids right like that's what the acf does and I'm it's being a little flippant there it does a lot more than that but I mean it's really that safety net for for and and when this is what rang in my head when you were talking about like what the family unit is according to project 2025 because Because I think the for Children and Families, is there to really help have high quality families, no matter what the composition is. That's what we want for children, right?

0:10:30 Lydia: Like WIC? Is WIC through there? Yeah. Yeah,

0:11:07 Rick: Matter whatthe composition of your family is, as long as you're loved and you're safe and you 'r fed, you know ,and can grow. That's the area where, you know, things like, you Start programs, child welfare, early, early childhood, medical programs to help with, you preparedness, you sure you guys are going to talk about JFK's influence. God, why do I keep doing that? RFK, he's just so much more iconic, JFK.

0:11:07 Lydia: RFK. Yeah? Yeah.

0:11:33 Rick: I hate to say it.

0:11:33 Thomas: You wish he was dead yeah

0:11:36 Rick: I, RFK, uh, junior, you know, the his, children's whatever defense fund or whatever that he's affiliated with in Samoa and yeah.

0:11:44 Lydia: Children's health defense. Yeah.

0:11:46 Rick: And the misinformation and then, you know, actual deaths of people on the ground. And, you know, a lot of those deaths are going to be, you in folks that, that, know, are struggling anyway. So I think that that's, you know, that's sort of, we're going to define what the family is. Well, this is an area, I mean, it's family is in the name, you know, the administration for children and families.

0:12:07 Lydia: I mean, all they have to do then is like change the eligibility requirements.

0:12:11 Rick: Right. Say you're not a family unless, you fit this, you

0:12:17 Lydia: Do you interpret the especially with with folks like RFK that are like children's lunches at school are not healthy and they need to be healthier and we rely too much on like highly processed foods and all of these these things. How is that going to look like? Because we have, again, financially restrictive Republicans that they not going to give money towards those efforts. But that's clearly something that's very important to RFK in particular, and also important to some of these other nominees that Trump has named from some of the research I've been doing. And how how are those going to combine together? I mean, I guess money probably always always wins out. Yeah, it's just it's I don't know, the Make America Healthy Again movement, I guess.

0:12:58 Rick: Yeah. I mean it's an interesting one. I, that has been the only thing where I've sort of kind of been like, huh, that would be kind of fun to see that play out. And if they could actually make some headway on it. I do think, yeah, I do Think we probably have too much processed food in school lunches.

0:13:12 Thomas: But but then I I don't I feel like the problem with that is that I don'T think they have reliable information on that Like, I think they're getting lucky a few times and then being like, and seed oils or whatever. And you're like, I don't know if that's anything, is it?

0:13:27 Lydia: Not in the amounts we consume them. Yeah?

0:13:29 Rick: Yeah, is going to be where like the fine print of what they write in there is going To be like weird. Like be something in there. I guarantee it. That will be like you cannot have ground up crickets.

0:13:40 Thomas: Isn't the biggest problem that we just don't give enough funding for it? So it's like they need to provide an three meals a day for 40 ,000 people on five dollars. And you like, well, we can give them this motor oil. I don' t know. There' s nothing like how are you going to buy a healthy stuff reliably, right?

0:13:54 Rick: Well, in most of the time now, it's actually, we're going to auction the right to do that off to the lowest bidder. And that is going to be a for -profit company that's still got to turn a profit from that $5.

0:13:59 Thomas: That's gonna do it yeah bullshit bid that probably wasn't accurate will

0:14:08 Rick: I think that that that's where it that dissonance of where you're saying like the money kind of is going to win out in this because if they're still going to just auction the stuff off to the lowest bidder then you can't get around processed foods like preservatives things like that um yeah it's going to be strange like as you say like there maybe it's

0:14:24 Thomas: The pizza still be rectangular is the important part slop

0:14:29 Lydia: Still

0:14:30 Rick: And will the sloppy joe still saturate the entire bun? Yeah.

0:14:36 Lydia: Slop.

0:14:36 Rick: Yeah. I think that'll be a weird place to watch because I think it would be nice to see better quality food in schools for sure. I think that, you know, nutrition, like, true science -based nutritional outcomes, you know, show that kids do better when they have full tummies with good nutrients in them.

0:14:56 Lydia: Michelle Obama has been saying that for a long, long time. But But

0:14:58 Thomas: That's what I was thinking is like I know she tried to do it and I don't think it took so I feel like there's this is gonna be hard either way well

0:15:06 Rick: Backroom deals that had to have been made and, like. Like, how long is RFK's tenure going to be? Because so much of this just seems like a weird patronizing pat on the head to some degree.

0:15:18 Thomas: Okay yes here's my thing what if you're working in any of these organizations whose initials I already forget make sure if especially with rfk jr please just give them fake reports like just oh here's hey health it's just a graph and it says health on one axis and make it really flattering. Oh my God. Health. We just, this just in dude, health is so much higher than it was. It's like off the charts. This is incredible. And that's my plan. Do it.

0:15:35 Lydia: Health.

0:15:38 Rick: And it just goes up. Yeah.

0:15:43 Lydia: Health and time. Yeah.

0:15:52 Rick: Got it. You got health on one axis and good on the other axis. And then it just goes up yeah yeah

0:16:00 Thomas: That's even more nonsensical than what I said. Health and good. How are you even plotting that? I was going with health and time so that you can do like, oh, see, ever since you got here, Buster, that's you. Put his face and the worm on the graph. Yeah, like, ah, here's where you came in.

0:16:22 Lydia: The line is the worm. Yeah.

0:16:24 Thomas: Yeah.

0:16:23 Rick: And yes yeah you know yeah

0:16:31 Thomas: This is, we've got, we've nailed it. And we're like, it's so far up, buddy. That's all because of you. I

0:16:32 Rick: And that might actually be better my other suggestion was just going to to be to take like a hole puncher to all of the reports and just strategically poke holes in it and just say like it's the worms but like there's worms everywhere I don't know

0:16:46 Thomas: Worry why rfk jr weirdly I'm I mean who knows but I'm less scared because he's an idiot like that's the problem is that guy is genuinely dumb like you can't run things efficiently you can'T accomplish things when you are that bad at taking in basic information and who knows maybe I'm wrong but I worry I mean dr oz as much as he's he's a weirdo. Like he was a doctor. I don't know. I don'T think he's like, I I think it might be a little bit more competently evil. Um, or maybe we'll get lucky. And like, he's not maybe more of the Republican. He stuff was just to gain popularity, you know, to, to to, gain power. I, I don' t know. Who knows, but yeah, it's just, I guess I'm just looking for a little mini tea leaves of hope, but, uh, yeah,

0:16:55 Rick: And he's gonna call for weird shit yeah yeah yeah yep yeah yeah I mean a shame because it seems like it there is kind of a mixed bag from what I've seen from these nominees from the like Like, the personality side, you know, you have your Fox News host, your Mamet Oz, your RFK Jr. types, and then you have, you know, these others that are more institutionalists in, like, politics and whatnot. And I'm not sure where to be more worried, kind of, I think, is where you're getting at is, you what would that look like for Dr. Oz I think certainly he from his background I would think would skew things towards being helpful to doctors make them you or whatever you know like those are going to be his buddies right if you just think like how's the grift going to drive this but like if you're doing that then that's going to make insurance companies unhappy

0:18:16 Thomas: I don''t trust the good guy's grift over the bad guy's grift. Yeah. Or it'll be some bullshit like pseudoscience that pays him a bunch of money or something which

0:18:19 Rick: It's like who's who's yeah yeah

0:18:24 Lydia: I mean, I'll tell you what Project 2025 calls for for Medicare and Medicaid is to cut funding for Medicaid.

0:18:26 Rick: Just it's gone. Yeah.

0:18:31 Lydia: Yeah. So they want to put caps on federal funding, a limit on lifetime benefits per capita, let states impose stricter work requirements, and then also make it harder to enroll and apply for and renew Medicaid. They also want to turn it into a voucher program and and eliminate federal oversight of state Medicaid programs.

0:18:51 Thomas: It's the unpopular bullshit that uh ryan uh and no one gave a shit about because it's old generation republicanism um so we'll see it's it's it's very stuff that they are trying to smuggle in um the culture wars and the the mega but it's not really popular so it's really on us to make sure people know about it you know oh

0:19:06 Rick: Well and I think that we're gonna see I mean you know the the recent focus on health care and and with the assassination I ever I hear all over the news you know now of you have the most expensive health care system with the worst outcomes and that is a problem and I don't see any of this is going to make that better and if people are already really upset about it then I mean again I this is this is a fundamental problem I've been having since election day of just how do people vote against their own interests in this um

0:19:40 Thomas: It's easy you just make them really mad at trans people and immigrants literally true that's it dying of whiteness that's how it goes all

0:19:42 Lydia: And immigrants, yeah?

0:19:44 Rick: I guess but if that's really it yeah I know it's absolutely wild yeah I'm just trying to wrap my brain around it because it's like if people are at this point where they're so fed up with you know the cost of living and health care and all these places like these people are not gonna make it any better in fact they're gonna just set it all on fire and it's gonna make everything way worse going to remodel these agencies through through arson yeah and I also think there will you know just like a forest fire there will will be the day after when something has to happen and

0:20:19 Lydia: Just how many people are dying as a result. Yeah, mm

0:20:20 Thomas: I'm not sure about that you

0:20:23 Rick: And how many adults can still be in the room so to speak to to step in at some point once we have to get through two years do we Have to get through four years like how do we get more checks and balances obviously you would be the hope but it's it that's been the struggle I've been been internally having for the last month and a half.

0:20:43 Thomas: Should see a doctor is

0:20:43 Lydia: Yeah . . .

0:20:45 Rick: Probably. Except for that's not covered anymore. Yeah. Guess the last little note is you know if it's a glimmer of hope But right now, it the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration that is part of HHS. It seems like we're seeing, you Know, nationally, a lot less drug overdoses for a lot of different reasons. And it seems complex, but it's great. And yeah so nancy reagan was right um I from what I had seen it looks like you know it's it's going to be a lot of things there's I DO THINK THAT KIDS THESE DAYS ARE GETTINGS A LOT SMARTER ABOUT THIS KIND OF STUFF AND JUST SEEING THE WORLD THAT THEY'RE GOING TO INHERIT AND BE LIKE OH I DON'T NEED TO BE LIKE high for that like that's gonna be hard

0:21:08 Lydia: Just saw a headline that, uh, use among teens is like way down. Yeah

0:21:15 Thomas: Finally just said no well

0:21:16 Lydia: Yeah

0:21:34 Thomas: Honestly a serious point uh is so addictive that it takes up more time like tiktok and all that like genuinely that could be part of it it's like there's more to do that takes that reward that centers of your brain and lights them up back when it's just stick and hoop they're like jesus give me some fucking heroin I can't do this stick and hoop but that's all there is there's not not even another level it's juste someone make a new map for stick and loop it's jist the world is the the map the only map they've made for that game wow

0:21:40 Lydia: That's true yeah eight

0:21:45 Rick: Maybe that's it yeah um right just level wow

0:22:03 Lydia: Eighty-eight percent of high school seniors in 1979 said that they'd had a drink in the year before being interviewed now was down to 46 percent yeah

0:22:12 Thomas: Okay we got to get our kids into that 46 % though otherwise gonna be totally nerds yeah

0:22:14 Rick: I'm surprised it's that low but what I'm hoping for I want my kids to be as nerdy as possible. Why not? It does seem that, you know, Narcan is in, was it Suboxone, um, are definitely the availability of that, which uh, has been influenced by, you Know, health and human services, making that more widely available and more regulatory hurdles to it. And I I don't know if you read anything in project Project 2025, you know, Republicans seem to like to criminalize addiction and mental health problems. So, you know, maybe they're gearing up to try to swing the pendulum back the other way. But it seems like that is something that they, had any wisdom, they could just like not touch much and it should continue.

0:22:25 Thomas: Oh no they want Narcan to not be available because people should have to suffer consequences for their addictions that's that's how they feel about it.

0:23:05 Rick: But it's, I mean, it's ravishing rural

0:23:08 Thomas: Dying of whiteness, my friend, dying of whineness.

0:23:09 Rick: So I mean you would think, yeah,

0:23:11 Lydia: Makes no appearance at all. The word opioid in Project 2025 chapter 54 pages and it's not in there at all

0:23:20 Rick: Mean maybe, maybe that's a good thing maybe this is something they forgot to look at yeah you know hopeful that maybe they just forgot to ruin it um I think that there's some really good stuff coming in that direction I know had read something too that suggested that some of this is actual international diplomacy also being helpful that we've

0:23:38 Thomas: For what? Some of what is?

0:23:40 Rick: Drop in drug overdoses that yeah Yeah, that it's more that the I guess the Chinese government is cracking down on some of these chemical manufacturers that make the like components that are used. And so there's that, you know, which they were kind of looking the other way before. And so I think that now they're seeing the fentanyl and stuff that that is on the streets or coming over the border is typically a little less potent. And so that's also part of it. So just trying to highlight that this is not just one administration or one agency within an administration's like This is, you know, really multi -pronged from like, you and, and state department to health and human services work to surgeon generals work to, you know, on the ground, local authority work to cell phones being too addicting.

0:23:44 Thomas: Like there's not as much coming over the border or something? That's good. Yeah.

0:24:35 Rick: That was sort of the, the final note of, I was trying to find something to be positive about in our conversation today. I wanted to leave it on, on a high note. So, yeah,

0:24:39 Lydia: Great. Right. And with that, I just want to give a huge thank you to Dr. Rick for walking us through how health and human services kind of all works in some ways. And clearly, we had a lot to talk about. I'll be getting into next time the people that have been nominated for some of these different departments within health and Human Services. And they, certainly are doozies. And I'll tell you that. I mean, I feel like I say that every time.

0:25:08 Thomas: We were promised doozies and we got doozis. The doozys always deliver.

0:25:13 Lydia: My gratitude to Dr. Rick for taking that time to join us today. And until next time, serious pop. I don't know.

0:25:22 Thomas: Yeah, stay Watch out for those doozes. Oh, I should just put in the Groundhog Day quote. Watch out for that first step. It's a doozy.

0:25:28 Lydia: Oh, there you go.

0:25:29 Thomas: Oh, man. Why didn't I incorporate that before? Oh, well. You know, there's always time.

0:25:34 Lydia: There is. There's a lot of doozies to go. So maybe we just start embracing that now.

0:25:37 Thomas: There's no shortage of doozyes. So remind me, I know when you've said it or if I've just forgotten. Who's doing what? Did what's Dr. Oz doing? What's Kennedy doing? I remember what the structures of these things are.

0:25:54 Lydia: So structure wise, what we're looking at is RFK Jr., Secretary of Health and Human Services. And then under him are a variety of agencies. That includes things like the Food and Drug administration, the CDC, the Surgeon General's Office, the National Institute of Health and all the research that they fund, and the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Are a few of the things that we'll be talking about.

0:26:23 Thomas: Gotcha. So So, um, I he hasn't rescinded that. This is one of those nominations that is, is this actually happened? Like this is, he's actually, there's been so much attention on other bad nominees that I feel maybe not enough has gone to how bad RFK Jr. is going to be.

0:26:32 Lydia: I mean, yeah, I likely, honestly.

0:26:45 Thomas: Do you think he'll get past?

0:26:45 Lydia: Confirmation. Yeah.

0:26:46 Thomas: Wow. I don't know. I mean, we, he, we can make him look real.

0:26:49 Lydia: If Pete Hegseth can get through, I

0:26:52 Thomas: Yeah, but like here.

0:26:52 Lydia: Think RFK is going to get through.

0:26:55 Thomas: OK, don't Don't don't. Get mad. I think RFK Hegseth looks like Barack Obama compared to RFK Junior in -a -vis their thing. Like, in terms of qualification, it's like Pete Hegseth was in the military. Like, he knows roughly what the military is and has been to it, has seen it, was in it. Whereas RFK Jr., it's, It's, Like, if he didn't believe in the ministry, he wouldn't have been able to do it. And then they put him in charge of the military, and then they'd put him back in charge It's like, that doesn't, that's way different.

0:27:24 Lydia: Don't know. Right before Christmas, There there are positive reports coming from senators post meetings with RFK Jr. saying that they've had productive conversations. He's making progress. Heard generally positive comments.

0:27:33 Thomas: Jesus. We've almost got him to understand what a doctor is. We got to the shin bones connected to the foot but I don't know there's progress in terms of this conversation oh

0:27:38 Lydia: Here's senator tillis says that he doesn't agree with labeling kennedy as anti -vaccine um I see this happening personally um so the nomination for Surgeon General, we have talked.

0:27:53 Thomas: Yeah that's rough yeah to.

0:28:01 Lydia: Yeah, we've talked about her family already. Her name is Jeanette Nishwat, and she's Mike Waltz's sister-in-law. He's the National Security Advisor Pfizer nomination. Creed is her brother-in-law.

0:28:13 Thomas: Creed.

0:28:14 Lydia: Yeah. Scots it out.

0:28:15 Thomas: Which diseases and or vaccines does she not believe in?

0:28:19 Lydia: So this is interesting. I'm starting with her because I think this is a really interesting one. Very quick background. Studied at the University of South Florida, did her residency at University of Arkansas Medical Center. From there, she went on to join the of urgent care clinics in New York called CityMD. And she rose through the ranks there and is now one of the medical directors for their clinic network. And that was really helpful during the pandemic with a city like New York that got hit incredibly hard. And the ability to test huge numbers of people, these clinics were were really instrumental in offering those services. But she has an interesting story on how she decided that she wanted to get into medicine. It's not something that she really talks about very much. And she doesn't talk about it in her book. She just kind of alludes to a loss in the family impacting her decision to go into medicine, but a variety of news articles articles have uh kind of helped connect the dots there were some news articles at the time that covered this as well so we um know that in 1990 she was going into her parents room um get scissors I think is what it was and

0:29:34 Lydia: Yeah

0:29:34 Thomas: Whatever this is already sounds weird. Oh,

0:29:36 Lydia: It's um she was trying to reach uh scissors which I guess happened to be up by a fishing tackle box she knocked the tackle box box down accidentally and it had a handgun inside and it somehow

0:29:49 Thomas: My God. Just for when you really need to fuck the fish up. Like, you could just catch it with a hook. You don't. It's for the big ones.

0:29:55 Lydia: Yeah it somehow went off as it fell and killed her father shot him right in the head and

0:30:02 Thomas: Mike. Okay. Okay. Either sounds made up or the least lucky thing in the world.

0:30:07 Lydia: So the police have said like this is the craziest freak accident and they didn't pursue you any charges is like an accidental death of this 13 year old girl for her father kind of thing.

0:30:17 Thomas: Her mom murdered her dad, huh? That's enough to send anyone into medicine.

0:30:20 Lydia: It's it It's really interesting because they're you know like the 911 dispatcher was interviewed for one of these articles and so was a police officer that like recently and he was like, you know 35 years later almost 35 years. Later. I know exactly what what case you're talking about. Like, this has never left me. And the 911 dispatcher happens to be married to like one of the lead officers from the case. And she was like, yeah, they like all came back and they were trying to figure out how in the world this happened. Like no one could figure out the mechanics of it. Who knows?

0:30:38 Thomas: It's that murder case that we didn't. Yeah.

0:30:54 Lydia: But that's that's.

0:30:55 Thomas: No, this is all me. This is the first time I've heard of this. I'm not going on any, any, no, no actual knowledge. Oh, I'm very certain there's, I am personally very certain. I just wanted to tell everybody else that it's not based on anything other than my feelings. No. You know, crazy stuff happens, you know, it's got to happen to somebody. So,

0:30:59 Lydia: No conspiracy. Yeah. Yeah, right. Right. So I mentioned, you know, she was really instrumental in the New York City COVID response by way of being involved in this, the urgent care clinics across New York city. She initially championed COVID vaccines. She called them quote, quote, a gift from God. She was encouraging everyone to wear masks. At one point, she encouraged people to double up on masking, wear double masks. And then Fox News invited her to be a medical TV, for Fox News TV, and provide commentary during COVID. And wouldn't you know it, by late 2022, now she's voicing some opposition. Specifically, though, This is one of the things that I find most interesting. Her opposition is very targeted. So her concern largely is about including COVID vaccines on the childhood vaccine schedule. She's not necessarily opposed to the vaccine in general, but specifically about the childhood vaccination schedule.

0:32:11 Thomas: So that's so reasonable. See? Cause I was worried it was, yeah, they do this all all the time. I mean, I know you know this, but it's like, yeah, it's, like, picking some sort of thing to kind of seem reasonable, but as long as it chips away at, you know, the scientific consensus, it is not actually reasonable.

0:32:16 Lydia: It's only going to get worse from this, though. And then she outnumbered on Fox News to talk about puberty blockers and other efforts for gender affirming care for transgender kids. And this

0:32:38 Thomas: What does that have to do with the vaccines? Ah, wouldn't you know it.

0:32:40 Lydia: Is another area where she has like a very specific approach. Approach. So if you want to pull up the clip I sent you, we can kind of hear where she's coming in from this.

0:32:53 Clip: We have a very serious topic because it has a very high suicide rate, very high suicidal ideation rate. Up to 42% of those who struggle with their identity think about suicide because of the stress that it has on them and even their families. So I don't think it's right for Rachel Levine to impose, it seems, her personal views on all of us. Instead, we know that some people will benefit from transitioning and gender-affirming care, but we want to do it the right way. And that starts off with taking a history and a physical, maybe doing blood work, getting counseling and therapy, not lushing to hormones and irreversible surgeries that might have long-term consequences or irreversibility. So

0:33:31 Thomas: Yeah. Because now they don't do that. Fucking

0:33:40 Lydia: All to comment on a couple of things here. First of all, the information that she's outlining there that We should be doing before we pursue medical interventions for these kids. We're obviously doing it. Right.

0:33:50 Thomas: Obviously already gets done god right

0:33:54 Lydia: That's very disingenuous. Second of all, though, notice. I mean, this is such like this is ridiculous, but like I have to be happy about the fact that she did not misgender Rachel Levine. Like is not something that we see often in these spaces and so like I've been trying to understand her because it's it's kind of like the complaints that she has about gender affirming care are things that are happening so that's not real like her issues there are not real she's appropriately referring someone with the correct pronouns she says that this is a real issue because there are kids where this much real for them. And we risk suicide for if we don't pursue this appropriately, if we do not give them the help that they need. These are all things that I do not think you would necessarily expect from a lot of these Trump nominees. So when I saw that, I was like, oh, okay, that is really interesting. Then I was like, okay. But then what does the surgeon general do exactly? And there is a quote I found from a medical historian, Dr. Howard Markell, and he's written a lot about epidemics specifically. He said that the job is largely ceremonial and less powerful than most Americans assume. And so part of me thinks that a lot of this is because she has TV experience, you know, like Trump likes listening to her talk. I don't think that she's necessarily like batshit crazy, you you know?

0:35:15 Thomas: That well that kind of um of coming at it usually in my experience it's like someone who actually does know better but is finding their ways of like justifying getting into this mythology you know and like starts with these kind of like you ways of coming out of it but you can can still tell They clearly did did understand the topics at one point, the at one point.

0:35:38 Thomas: That's usually how I feel about that kind of approach.

0:35:41 Lydia: But, you know, her sister served in the previous Trump administration. Her brother-in-law is going to be serving in this one, assuming he is confirmed. I think it's just a family that is well connected with Trump. And also she has something financially to gain from this, I think, because she founded a brand of dietary supplements. So she has, you know, some skin in the game with regard to some of the changes with the FDA.

0:36:02 Thomas: How much snake oil are

0:36:04 Lydia: Yeah, probably

0:36:05 Thomas: We going to get from this administration?

0:36:07 Lydia: A lot, honestly. Yeah. Yeah so that is our Surgeon General.

0:36:11 Thomas: They're going to have a snake oil czar, like a czar of snake oil, like a super slick, like car salesman type guy.

0:36:13 Lydia: I know, I know. All So I was able to get through one of the nominees. We have a lot more to go. I'll And be spending our next episode walking through folks like Dr. Oz, which I know everyone is eager to hear all about. And I will tell you all about him. Unfortunately, I