WTW70: San Jose State University's Volleyball Season That Wasn't About Volleyball

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:03 Clip: What's so scary about the woke mob, how often you just don't see them coming.

0:00:11 Clip: Anywhere you see diversity, equity, and inclusion, you see Marxism, and you see woke principles being pushed.

0:00:19 Clip: Wokeness is a virus more dangerous than any pandemic hands down. The woke monster is here, and it's coming for everything, everything, everything, and everything. Instead of go-go boots, the seductress green M &M will now wear sneakers.

0:00:42 Thomas: And welcome to Where There's Woke. I'm your host, Thomas Smith. That over there is your other host, Lydia Smith. How you doing, Lydia?

0:00:49 Lydia: I am doing pretty well happy Thanksgiving happy after Thanksgiving has nothing to do with what we're going to talk about

0:00:57 Thomas: Yeah, okay. That's very cordial of you.

0:01:01 Lydia: Know I'm not good at like linking in the story with the intro like Matt is Matt is killer at it yeah and I just say fine like every time yeah

0:01:06 Thomas: That's how he's got a pun ready. Yeah, what are you going to serve up to us?

0:01:15 Lydia: Geez so this is a story I've been kind of tracking for a while um going to be talking about the controversy at my alma mater um where I went to for graduate school san jose state and their women's volleyball team well

0:01:35 Thomas: Controversial about that? Like what could be going are they dealing are they a drug cartel are they secret murders are they what could it be so important that there's a women's volleyball controversy that I've heard of so

0:01:48 Lydia: It's so important that it was like the main point at the rnc at the madison square garden rally after immigration this is like number two I

0:01:59 Thomas: Kindof carbon footprint does that volleyball team have I'm just trying to think of what's so important they do dump a lot of oil like wherever they go just like as they're wow I guess we'll find out what is truly so important uh this break support the show patreon.com/wherethereswoke uh it's the only reason this happens and it's uh you know I just feel like especially especially these days when we've lost a lot of mainstream media. I feel like the reaction to the election from the New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times has been, you know, enabling and

0:02:01 Lydia: Mean yeah disappointing

0:02:35 Thomas: Yeah, very disappointing caving. Essentially. I just, Oh my God.

0:02:36 Lydia: And yeah oh yeah like morning joe right msnbc yeah exactly

0:02:44 Thomas: Not that I ever gave a shit about morning Joe, but I mean, it really is like we're losing more and more of it. And I just. Just we want to set the record straight on a lot of these bullshit things. And that's with your help is the only way we can do that. So thank you so much to those who support the show. You make it happen and share the show, hey, if you can't, you know, we understand, share the show right a good review that helps. All right. Well, after this break, we'll find out how many genocides this volleyball team is. That must be something really serious.

0:03:11 Thomas: I am just I am pins and needles. I can't. What's what's it going to be?

0:03:14 Lydia: I this exploded when a individual named Brooke Slusser joined a lawsuit, an existing lawsuit. And we'll talk about that a little bit first before we kind of get into the specifics regarding San Jose State. The lawsuit that Brooke joined, this was in September of 2024, they submitted an amended complaint. This is the NCAA lawsuit that's Gaines et al., as in Riley Gaines, so you kind of see where this is going, versus the NCAA, specific to like Georgia Tech University and their claims that between the, you know, the college and the NCAA that women were denied being access to equal opportunity in sports. This is basically the same thing.

0:03:55 Thomas: Question. Is this the same Riley Gaines bullshit or is this a new effort? Like it's

0:04:01 Lydia: This is like, oh, so this is one that was filed March 2024.

0:04:01 Thomas: Just, I mean, I know court cases take forever, so it's like that same case.

0:04:08 Thomas: Oh, okay. So it is like a newer, they are just going around trying

0:04:11 Lydia: This one. So And so then this one is filed in coordination with a new nonprofit organization founded in 2022. it's called the Independent Council on Women's Sports or ICONS. You'll see it referred to as ICONs all over the place. They have like a merch section on their website. That was founded by Marshy Smith and Kim Jones. Both of them are former student athletes. And Kim Jones is actually a of one of Leah Thomas's former teammates. And so she definitely has a bone to pick um because of you know perceived injustices there um along with Riley Gaines so um two individuals are you know kind of new to this space um least in terms of advocacy and you can really tell like when they do media appearances and stuff especially Marshy Smith um was watching something of her where she was kind of like um holding her earpiece in because like she was I I think kind not super used to it. But anyway, this it's a new nonprofit, they are getting very involved with a lot of different things. So they both had signed on to an amicus brief for West Virginia versus BPJ, which is a 2024 filing that the Supreme Court has not yet agreed to hear at this time. But they are, you know, amicus grief has been put up, The petitions have been put up. Other amici include America First Legal, Do No Harm, Concerned Women for America, kind of like the people you would typically expect with this area of concern, I guess. What that case is about, and we'll see if the Supreme Court decides to take it up, is West Virginia passed a law in 2021 that categorically banned girls who are transgender from participating on all -girls sports teams from middle school through college. And a student sued BPJ and they ended up winning and went through the appeal process and went on appeal. And so West Virginia is taking it up to the Supreme Court at this point. Point. Also, these two women via ICONS, submitted an amicus brief in U.S. v. Scermetti, which is going to be, oral arguments are coming up on that, I think, very soon. Regarding access to gender -affirming medical care in Tennessee. Lots of stuff going on there.

0:06:22 Thomas: Boy, don't love all this. Like, and this one is coming up with the Supreme court and this one is whatever. So this is going to be a Supreme court season of transphobia and and ruining trans people's lives. Awesome.

0:06:25 Lydia: Know. It's bad. Yeah. Yeah, will be,

0:06:33 Thomas: Yeah, well, keep an eye on that going forward.

0:06:33 Lydia: Honestly. It is depressing. Yeah.

0:06:36 Thomas: So that sucks.

0:06:37 Lydia: Yeah, of course. So with that original complaint, the you ACLU is going up against them. And they an amended complaint in September 2024, like I mentioned, where additional women joined. And one of those women was Brooks Lusser. Brooke Slusser is the captain for the women's volleyball team at San Jose State. She did not start at San Jose State. She's a transfer student. She started at Alabama and has not publicly talked about why she left. She has just said that she was looking for a to love the game again. I do have a clip where I think she might allude to something that happened.

0:07:12 Thomas: It's something more than normal sports.

0:07:14 Lydia: Think it could be, you know, again, she has not really said anything 100 percent anywhere. But in terms of like her playing time and stuff, you know, as like a freshman and sophomore, it's not like she was being, you for particularly long periods of time. Like she's a really good player. And everyone who has given interviews about her from like the athletic staff perspective has talked about her leadership and the way that she handles herself on the court and her volleyball IQ and all of those those things, they're very impressed by what she brings to the table with those things. So I would be surprised if it was related to that. She's just said that she wanted to find happiness in the sport again. San Jose State recruited her. So in the complaint, though, she named a teammate of hers that she said was transgender. First and last name.

0:08:05 Thomas: Awesome.

0:08:07 Lydia: As the captain named her teammate. I will not be using the name myself. Some of the clips might be using her name, but it's not something I want to engage in because this person has not come out and shared things themselves. And the school obviously is maintaining her to privacy. And, you know, that not my business.

0:08:10 Thomas: Essentially outed. Yeah.

0:08:28 Lydia: So, yeah. Brooke shared her name and said that she was transgender, she not only just alleged that, that. But she kind of set forth like all of these specific, you facts of the case kind of thing. Right. So saying that she shared a residence with this student and that she roomed with her for traveling. Come to find out, according to Brooke, that it was because the student had basically given a list of women on the team that she felt comfortable with staying for travel and overnights and things like that. And Brooke was one of them. And so the athletic staff roomed them up together. And the way that Brooke found out about this, according to this lawsuit, was that she a conversation between other students that this individual on the volleyball team is a guy, in quotes. And she asked more questions about it and they said that oh yeah um person's a dude

0:08:28 Thomas: No way.

0:09:29 Lydia: And was like really kind of shocked by it it it was brand new news to her because you know by this point it had been a year since they had met and they had room together and they had played on the same volleyball team together um she ended up like not really um talking about it for because according to her, she wanted to think about how she was going to respond. Simultaneously, what I Brooke wasn't aware of, which I find surprising, but she says she was not aware about this, a mother from a competing school. So this is in the Mountain West Conference. We'll be talking a little bit about the conference and the various teams that they play for San Jose State Women's Volleyball. But an opponent's mother basically sent a tip to this website called Redux. Have you heard of Redux?

0:10:16 Thomas: I don't remember.

0:10:18 Lydia: It is horrific.

0:10:18 Thomas: Was this like some of that transvestigating stuff? Oh, God. Everyone

0:10:23 Lydia: That's exactly what it is. And it's just completely horrible. Southern Poverty Law Center has said that it's nothing but rabid transphobia. And like many white nationalist websites that list endless pages of black crime meant to suggest that black people are inherently prone to criminality, Redux is an endless scroll of alleged trans sex offenders and pedophiles. Really bad. I like went on the website and it's just horrific. And so this came out in April 2024, where.

0:10:50 Thomas: These same fucking people during me too were like there is a whisper network and they're just accusing people mind that it is pretty much all people and men who actually are disgusting and harass people and then they're like well but this is fine we can do a totally anonymous list of people we're just accusing of being trans and by the way pedophiles in the same sentence you're saying like I don't know what that has to do with any each other but like unreal oh

0:11:17 Lydia: Nothing unless you're this website and then it's everything. Not only posted, you know, there is a suspected student athlete at San Jose State on the women's volleyball team who was assigned male at birth. They don't say any generalities like that. They out this person on the article and not just that, including pictures. They went on this person's aunt's Facebook to find pictures of before their transition. They dead named them in the article. Really, really awful. And so, yeah, it kills me that that happened. And that was an isolated thing, April 2024. And obviously, obviously, this student knew about it. Supposedly, a lot of other people didn't necessarily. And Brooke decided to name her in this very obvious lawsuit.

0:11:48 Thomas: My god really sad this so she named her what do you mean named so this lawsuit was already happening so they submitted oh an amended oh so it is part of the complaint it's not an amicus brief or whatever who's

0:12:11 Lydia: And then they did an amended. Yep. No, correct. She joined the So then they submitted an amended complaint to include her story. Defendant is the NCAA, Georgia Tech. So, yes, yes.

0:12:22 Thomas: Who'sthe defendant no whole ncaa so they're

0:12:28 Lydia: Because of their policies. Yeah.

0:12:28 Thomas: Like oh we're adding on here's another you know okay I gotcha

0:12:32 Lydia: Instance in which Title IX was violated. Yeah. With Brooks addition to this lawsuit, this is when it all went crazy. Was one instance kind of immediately after the lawsuit where they were in, they do like pre -season tournaments and stuff with other schools that aren't in conference. And there was one school that refused to play them. And when the organizer reached out to the coach, she said that it was because they tired. So they were just going to, you know, take the forfeit kind of thing and that their team needed to recuperate from some of the other games that they've had during the tournament. And that was the only reason they got. But what it had to do with was this.

0:13:13 Thomas: That's not really a thing

0:13:14 Lydia: Yeah, it was not not true. And so what you see then is.

0:13:15 Thomas: What you do in that case is you play some of your bench players that don't get any playing time.

0:13:24 Lydia: So immediately following the complaint, we basically have a series of forfeits that happened from Mountain West Conference schools that you would probably expect. So on September 28th, San Jose State was slated to play Boise State. Boise forfeited. On October 5th, San Jose state was sladed to play Wyoming and Wyoming forfeitted. Then they played a few a few matches during the month of October until October 23rd, when Utah State forfeited. October 26th, Nevada forfeitted. And then on November 14th, Wyoming forfeoted again. And dann on November 21st, Boise forfeicted again. Right now, we're actually in the Mountain West tournament, the conference tournament to determine who's the champion of the Mountain Western Conference. They were slated to play Boise State for the semifinal, and Boise forfeited there as well. And actually today they're playing Colorado for the championship game. It actually is probably over by now.

0:14:19 Thomas: Jesus. This is crazy. And is this Division 1?

0:14:26 Lydia: Division one.

0:14:29 Thomas: These fucking people. I would be pissed if I were on any of these teams. You're telling me we're good. Look, I don't know anything about this girl. I don' t know. Know. I I could imagine if she's like seven feet tall and benches 400 pounds and spikes balls and takes people's heads off or something like, OK, maybe maybe that would be concerning. But like volleyball, like women's volleyball, what what position is she like? Is it like I could imagine it being absolutely not even noticeable, which it seems like it wasn't for the longest time. Seems like nobody cared. This didn't matter for a pretty long time. And the idea that in division one sports who imagine the seniors on the other teams whose it's whose last season last chance to do this competition which is very important to them and they're like sorry one of the players on this team might be trans so there goes your season like just play the fucking game you losers like I'd be so pissed yeah

0:15:30 Lydia: So Brooke talks about this a lot. She she has said that the teammate towers over opposing teams. This student is 6 '1", and seven of the San Jose State teammates are six feet or taller. Brooke Slusser is 5'11". Like, these are not significant differences. She has said that this individual can jump very high, and I don't have any information related to that, like what that data point is. But, you know, fair enough on her But as far as how tall she is, 20 % of all current active players in the NCAA are taller than six feet. This is not unreasonable.

0:16:08 Lydia: Additionally, Brooke Slusser has said that this student hits the ball at 80 miles per hour. 2015 study of a Spanish team that is very, very good at volleyball found that the average women's volleyball spike is 44 miles per hours, and the average men's is 60 miles per hour. So this student is incredible and should be in the Guinness Book of World Records then if truly they are hitting the ball at 80 miles an hour. Did see some records related to the fastest spike. And in women's volleyball, the individual is Paola Egonu at 70.1 miles per hour. So that's very fast and very strong. But it is unlikely that this student, that this 20 -something year old student is hitting the ball at 80 miles per hour, because I feel like we would have heard a lot about that before they were even outed as being transgender.

0:16:59 Lydia: It would be like, oh, my God, can you believe it?

0:17:00 Thomas: This just in another victim has claimed at the yeah her head came clean off it's

0:17:06 Lydia: There footage of one of the games where she spikes and she's a very talented player, definitely. She leads the team in a variety of statistics I don't understand because I don' t know what all the abbreviations stand for. And there's a lot of them. And I was trying to like understand. But she does lead in what they call kills and like these spikes that, you know, nobody can stop, I guess. And one of those attempts that she had ended up hitting a player on the opposing team. And everybody said, oh, my God, it hit that girl in the face. You know, like came down at what they think is 80 miles an hour in this woman's face on the opposing team. Donald Trump reposted it that this girl got hit in the face by a volleyball because, you know, we have non -women in women's sports. And what they found like as they were slowing it down was it likely actually just hit her shoulder and it showed the student right after and her face is fine they people get hurt like that that's what happens um you know when when Brooke is talking about um and other people who participate in this conversation they talk about like how dangerous it is to be up against someone who is you know tall that strong that powerful that that there's, know, these you biological differences in physicality between men and women, et cetera, et zebra. Very, very, very common practice in women's volleyball and in

0:17:59 Thomas: Just a part of the game it doesn't matter yeah it's

0:18:25 Lydia: Like the not even that they have men just play like are practice players because they want they

0:18:25 Thomas: The scrimmage the men's teams the players are killed every time but it's worth the other half they get a a lot better a lot of improvement

0:18:37 Lydia: But that's part of the NCAA rules like that is completely allowed. Loud. Most schools participate in that. I feel like San Jose State participates in it. I didn't find anything corroborating either way, but it was something I was looking into. I'd be surprised if they didn't because it does give you a competitive advantage. And it's not just like practicing against people who are taller than your team because you might be going up against significantly tall women on other teams or that have particular strength that your team might not have. But it it also gives your team the chance to from having to constantly for spikes and things like that. Like you get to practice defense and not have to kind of practice both at the same time. So it actually protects the players on the team to some degree as well. If you would hear it from Brooke, it's the most dangerous thing in the world having the student on their team and that everybody is scared of her and that no one feels safe and that people are having to dodge her spikes because they're so scary and so powerful and I'm sitting here going well I bet you you guys have male practice players I bet that's

0:18:41 Thomas: Of course crazy

0:19:39 Lydia: Happening um coaches will sub in too and do that same thing so

0:19:43 Thomas: All right, hon. Sports are not your forte.

0:19:46 Lydia: Fair.

0:19:46 Thomas: No shame. No shaming there. I would just like to you point out that sports are kind of my forte. I'm really into sports. I thought, first thing I thought as you were talking was, well, why don't I check the, you statistics? This is NCAA division one. There's stats on all this stuff. And you, I don't know volleyball that well. I don' t claim to. I mean, I know the basics, so I don don't like what stats are going to matter, but you mentioned kills. Kills per set seems seems solid. And I click on the national rankings and was just looking at like the stats and I didn't even see, we had to clarify, I didn't see San Jose State in the top 50, meaning of the individuals that list their school and the top50 individuals in women's volleyball and D1 in the nation. Was no San Jose state. I was like, do we have the right thing? Until I got to at page two and uh this person is in the 70s in the nation in terms of kills per set enough it also lists their height and uh six one the person right above them six five

0:19:59 Lydia: Yeah, yep. Right. Yeah

0:20:46 Thomas: Uh person six three six two six two um there are some five which by the way really impressive five nine wow that's super impressive I always love that like the folks that are yeah a a little bit shorter, but they're getting kills. You know, that means they're actually still, you know, spiking the ball. That's not like they're just so. And in fact, the fourth in the nation is five, nine. That's actually really cool. And the numbers. So kills per set, the the top number is 5.6 in the nation. That''s the nationwide leader in NCAA division division one sports 5.6. This person is at 3.8. Pretty big difference there.

0:20:55 Lydia: That's awesome. The shorties.

0:21:24 Thomas: Like this is not a kid you would think.

0:21:23 Lydia: Yeah is there an advantage or not like

0:21:28 Thomas: Yeah, well, it's that's a weird question. Like it's it's this this is a complex issue. And I don't know when you want to get into that. But my opinion has long been a this is Not a problem anyone should ever give a fuck about like at all. B I do actually think there should be rules about this. And I think a lot of people are like, gosh, there should be rules About this. Trans person. Yeah. Hey, guess what? There are rules about it.

0:21:30 Lydia: I know I know yes

0:21:54 Thomas: Hey guess what? There's a whole world of people outside of your limited little experience that do this stuff all day. You come when you see an angry thing on Fox news about it, then you come and you're like, oh man, there nobody knows about this, nobody knows anything but me. I'm the first person to discover sports and I'm gonna it's like there's it's the nc fucking double a all this is a billion industry not not women's volleyball in particular but like the ncaa as an entity billions of dollars billions of hours they have to come up with rules for stuff they've thought about this do I know their rules I don't know do I know that they're guaranteed to be perfect rules no do should I have a fucking opinion on it really as a person who hasn't studied this doesn't I'm not a doctor I don't understand and no, if you were a person who's an expert in this field, I think it's sensible. You know, we do divide men, women, sports, and there are reasons for that that are solid. It's a complex issue, like anything with human beings. There's going to be like a spectrum of different things. And people talk about, you talked about the height advantage. Number two in kills per set in the nation, Kennedy Martin from Florida, 6 '6". It's

0:21:54 Lydia: There are oh 100 yeah yeah wow

0:23:05 Thomas: Really tall. Yeah, she's really tall. And that you single out someone who seems to be pretty good, but, you the 70s in the nation, that doesn't seem like overwhelmingly.

0:23:05 Lydia: That's awesome not even the tallest on the team on san jose state she's not even the tallest of the team I don't

0:23:17 Thomas: God. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, you someone in in the 70s that's not overwhelming that's not someone who's murdering people it this just it doesn't seem like an issue and it for me the when he first told me about this it's like for me okay who's the entity whose entire job it is to regulate sports these these sports the NCAA have they thought about it yes do they have rules yes is this person acting within the rules while you'll get to it but But that seems to be the beginning and the end of the conversation for me. And yet all these people are dipping their nose into it. They're They're making a huge issue. It's heartbreaking how many how many people's careers I would be fucking pissed again if I was on any team that forfeited to her. That's just so pathetic like know, these people aren't going to the pro volleyball league that we all know and love and we pay millions of dollars to like for most of these athletes. This is it. And, and many of them are seniors, you know, in fact, this person is a senior, the trans person.

0:24:13 Lydia: Yeah, as is Brooke. Yeah

0:24:20 Thomas: Yeah. They're seeing this is their last year.

0:24:20 Lydia: This is how she's choosing to spend her senior year.

0:24:23 Thomas: And it's, and it's like, you're going to ruin it with this. Like, it's just pathetic. It's sad.

0:24:28 Lydia: I'll tell you some people who have been very of the stance of some of their schools the governors of some of those states they've gone on to X to say you know know, really proud of the women.

0:24:39 Thomas: They're proud of them quitting inequality.

0:24:41 Lydia: Yeah. Really proud of the women at, Boise for standing up against, you know, inequality in sports at the college level. So you have, you know, governors, yeah, governors from Utah, from Nevada.

0:24:52 Thomas: You would have thought that this trans student is the number one in the nation. And furthermore, you would have thought, well, it San Jose state also must be just, they must be poised to win it all. They're not ranked. Did you say that? They're not rank the NCAA in every NCAA sport, they tend to rank the top 25. If you don't have a number by your name, guess what? You're not ranked. And there they're not ranked. They're not in the top twenty-five of, the thing. I mean, that this isn't an issue. What, what is the, what does the worry here? You know, that's

0:25:27 Lydia: Yeah, yeah and I mean, you know, one of the things that as this started coming out, you know, I talked about all the forfeits and the media attention. Kind of kept growing and growing and going. And come November, the associate coach for the women's volleyball team at San Jose State ended up joining Brooks Cause and they filed a new lawsuit yeah, against the Mountain West Conference regarding the tournament. And so So this was an motion for injunctive relief because the conference tournament was coming up very quickly, two weeks before the conference. They knew the conference was coming up. They waited till two weeks to file this. And a number of students that would be in the tournament, so a lot of the students that participated in some of the boycotts that supportive of not playing. I think actually it was Nevada, you know, in Reno, they did not make the decision to forfeit. But the athletes pulled themselves out kind of thing. Like the school was like, we are planning on playing the game. And then the student athletes were like, no, we're not, you Know, majority of the team and they pulled themselves out. And Riley Gaines was like very, very proud of them too. And yeah,

0:25:48 Thomas: So sad yeah truly the rosa parks is of our generation

0:26:36 Lydia: But this lawsuit, they they wanted, What they demanded from the judge was they wanted an order requiring the Mountain West Conference to rescind the transgender participation policy, which we'll talk about in a second. They wanted them to flip the wins and losses for the forfeits for each of the times that San Jose State went up against the team that didn't want to play. They wanted to switch who won, who lost, recalculate the team's standings, and enjoin San Jose State from continuing to roster its transgender player and prohibit her from playing in the tournament in two weeks. Brooke Slusser, interestingly enough, only asked for that last item, that her teammate be removed from the roster and not get to play in the Tournament.

0:27:16 Lydia: But she didn't want to flip the wins and losses for the forfeits. She didn't wanna recalulate the team standings and she didn't care. Care interestingly she did not care about the transgender participation policy yeah and

0:27:16 Thomas: Of course yeah boy weird about that level of fairness like I'm so obsessed with fairness that we need but also we still get the wins it was we still I still should get the wins though

0:27:35 Lydia: Well and like different in interviews and stuff she she specifically has said you know like I know this isn't going to make a difference this year but this is about making an impact you know for the women who come after me and you know making that thing better but she wasn't signing on to rescind the tpp the transgender participating policy so art like it's just it does not make sense.

0:27:36 Thomas: Transparent maybe she just wants it changed Yeah, there must be some reason.

0:27:59 Lydia: When the judge considered this, so this had to move at like lightning speed, right, because the conference, the tournament is coming up. And the judge issued an order just a few days ago, right before the tournament was set to start. I'm just going to read you a quick quote from here. Here, when considering the movement's challenge to the TPP, this policy was approved and ratified by the MWC's member institutions, including Plaintiff Intervener USU, Utah State State University in August 2022. And any threatened harm resulting from the MWC's enforcement of that policy is apparent on the policy's face. When a team refuses to compete against another team that rosters an eligible trans teammate, the refusal is deemed a forfeit and the forfeiting team will be charged with a loss and the opposing team credited for the purposes of conference records, standings, tie -breaking formulas, and MW Championships participation. Yeah. Throughout the order, the judge cites Tenth Circuit and SCOTUS precedent. So pin in that for how this could unfold. Know, we're talking about things that seem safe as of right now.

0:28:45 Thomas: Because that's how sports fucking work. Furthermore, I think all the teams that are against integration should should forfeit, too. You know, if you can't stand having a black woman on the on the team. Team.

0:29:05 Lydia: I know. I know so they of plaintiffs appealed this and they lost an appeal that happened kind of simultaneously because again, Again, this was moving at a very, very quick, pace. I wanted to talk just very briefly about Mountain West, you know, what the judge cites there regarding the Mountain West transgender participation policy. Is something that, as he stated, was approved and ratified by all of the schools that are part of the Mountain West Conference in August 2022. Every single one, every single one read this, approved it, ratified it. It became part of the conference documentation. And Mountain West as this started kind of getting a little more traction in the media after Brooke joined that initial lawsuit in September, they ended up uploading the policy and appending it to their 2024 handbook. And so, again, like I'm looking at an excerpt from the TPP here, and it specifically says, you know, if a transgender athlete has been deemed eligible by the NCAA and has been included on an MW member institutions team there, are permitted to participate in all conference competitions. And so when you're when you're wondering, OK, well, then what's the NCAA, you It doesn't matter. I mean,

0:30:22 Lydia: I have I have it. But

0:30:22 Thomas: It doesn't matter. Yeah well maybe we'll go over that in the next part or something but like as far as I'm concerned if youre gonna I mean look I guess I understand in their minds what they're doing like in their mind this is a great injustice because these the policy is wrong and so they're trying to bring attention to it I still think you could could just do that. Especially again, it would be one thing if this person was like, so they many extra volleyballs because when she spikes them, they're on fire. They actually just light on fire, several audience members are killed, and the team is in first. Yeah, one's ever scored a point on them. It's actually really boring to even go to the game. Then, okay, then we're talking. All right, that seems insane. That would be extreme. I just looked up, there's another um you know they only bother ranking the top 25 but there's another metric they use which is just based on like strength of schedule and record um just kind of more like a ton of it's just math basically but it's not um don't put a ton of thought into it uh they put a lot of thought in to the 25 because it matters usually but anyway just that metric and they can do that for all of them because they all have a record and they all whatever san jose state you want to guess their ranking I'll

0:31:33 Lydia: Would say,

0:31:33 Thomas: Give you a hint there's the total seems seems to be 346 teams,

0:31:38 Lydia: Okay. I'm going to say 172.

0:31:40 Thomas: 130. So you picked middle of the pack, but still 130th. We're doing this over the 130th ranked team, 130th, what? Come on, man. What, what isthis? What a waste of time and energy. What a heartbreaking thing. Like why I it's, it's such a heartbreaking thing like there there's a lot of this that's really really sad like this poor person to be put through this and and it's just for for enough for what the 130th ranked team again if you want to challenge the policy challenge the fucking policy and argue the merit of it or something but doing this dramatic doxing

0:32:10 Lydia: I know.

0:32:25 Thomas: Thing is obviously just bullshit political theater to get people Well,

0:32:32 Lydia: Yeah I know I alluded to this kind of at the beginning of this episode. Let me go ahead and send you this link. But But, you surprise. Brooke Slessor goes on Megyn Kelly to do a pretty extended interview. And Megyn Kelley asks, you know, like, does your family say about this? You know, what you've been through and the situation you've been put in.

0:32:54 Thomas: You've been through being on a team.

0:32:55 Lydia: Yeah. Well, with regard to rooming with this person and et cetera, et cetera. So we'll go ahead and listen to this conversation.

0:33:00 Thomas: Horrible. No one in college has ever had to stay with like even on their lines. But whatever.

0:33:06 Clip: There is real risk, there's genuine danger to you, like, what, what did your parents say, what does your family say when you realized the school had placed you in this position?, My parents were enraged, I mean, you can only imagine, it's like, you're sending your child off, putting them in the hands and chest of these coaches to basically take care of you and be able to make, like life decisions and everything through them, and then come to find out that they said all these things, So then we'll hear, we'll care for her, we love her and worry about a man being on the team and allowing

0:33:09 Thomas: What? What? Sorry, what? What. Oh,

0:33:44 Clip: Me to move in with a man on the team.

0:33:47 Thomas: My Move in.

0:33:48 Clip: After knowing everything that I've been through personally with my past and all of all. So it was, they could not have been angry about the whole situation. I'm right hope so. I feel for them entirely and would have shared the outrage so

0:33:50 Thomas: Did been through personally with my past shut the fuck up Megyn Kelly am

0:34:06 Lydia: So, you though they knew what I went through in volleyball, you know, kind of thing. And I was like, Oh, that's really interesting. I wonder. There are a lot of problems in, in sports and And athletics. Right. Yeah.

0:34:17 Thomas: Who knows what that's about I don't know it's entirely possible she has genuine trauma of some kind and yeah that would suck but it has nothing to do with this yeah

0:34:27 Lydia: Right. And it has nothing to do with this individual either who she constantly misgenders throughout Megyn Kelly's show, obviously, and to name throughout the show, obviously um it's one of those things where um know I just I cannot believe that the individual that has been going through all of this still shows up on the court and plays as if nothing is happening um like respects Brooke as a captain from everything I see like Like, it's just I mean, the coach, I mean I don't know that I would necessarily.

0:34:59 Thomas: Well that's dumb shouldn't do that let's not get crazy here yeah

0:35:07 Lydia: But she's just like just focused on volleyball. And, you had said in an interview after is just, you Know, one of the matches shortly after the lawsuit came out. And there were a lot of people complaining. This is where I don't understand sometimes with people in our program. And I've told our team this. They were upset with the players' energy on the court that night. I give her credit because she reacted in a much better way than I would have. Amended lawsuit was, what September 22nd. They had a game on September 24th. And she went out and she played. And if nothing had happened at all. It's, I don't know. She is a strong, incredible person and not deserve this at all."

0:35:14 Thomas: Which oh god Jeez. I also look the, the idea. So she said, move in. Did they move in together?

0:35:54 Lydia: They did live together. So when Brooke transferred, both.

0:35:56 Thomas: I thought you said rooming together, like for road trips or something.

0:36:00 Lydia: So when Brook transferred, the way that I understand it It was the athletic staff suggested, you know, that she room with some of the girls on the team that had come in as well. So then that way she could kind of get to know them and stuff before the season started. And so she was a roommate with this individual as well as two other girls. I believe I think it was four of them that lived together and

0:36:21 Thomas: Let me get this straight. Room Uh, together, live together. How Um, long have they been doing this together? Just this season or something?

0:36:28 Lydia: No. This is their second

0:36:30 Thomas: This is their second season, second season together, together, room together, live together, played together, literally didn't even notice, you know, like no, no issue, nothing. And then to do this tearjerker, I can't believe the danger they put me in from the nothing that happened that I'd never noticed. And I never would have noticed and didn't matter in a million years. It's just disgusting, fake victimhood bullshit. And is so cruel. Like it's really sad.

0:36:30 Lydia: Season together. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it really, really is.

0:37:00 Thomas: I don't know if this will get me in trouble, but Hey, Brooke, Brooke, your voice is a little deep. Just wait till the transvestigators come after you because that happens. I don't wish it on anyone, but that's the thing about these things. That spirals out and often the eating faces people who are like, well, I want you to go after everyone. They don't realize what they've set off is a disgusting misogynist, horrible movement of hate that goes after any women that doesn't fit their exact ideal of womanhood.

0:37:20 Lydia: Of what a woman looks like, sounds like, acts like. Like, yeah.

0:37:30 Thomas: And that captures all kind who knows the percentage of people on that hate website you said they're just cis probably a lot

0:37:37 Lydia: And I mean that's a great point and something that I stumbled on, you know, when I was talking about the founders of the Independent Council on Women's Sports, I mentioned Marshy Smith and she posted this thing on Facebook during the Olympics about Imane Khelif saying, you know she was like crying and she was like watching a man punch a woman in the face while everyone was cheering at the Olympics was so hurtful and and like literally crying on camera during this and I was like but that's not true like that it's like I mean, that's a perfect example of, that you Imane Khelif did not look like Marshy Smith's idea of what a woman was. And so she decided that Imane Khelif was a man and

0:38:07 Thomas: It's not a trans person yeah nothing well and it was that weird like wasn't the russian like something ah there's a lot of no the the the only reason this was on anyone's radar is they said said at some point she had failed some test thing but it was not the actual olympic committee remember it was just like they thought it might have been again the fucking right because we're always going to trust the russians word on it like they're being sore losers or whatever and there's no evidence and again it's algeria like there's going to be some out trans person just competing I mean it's just nuts it's Just ridiculous and it's all because of how she looks Like, that's the way, again, this doesn't end with exactly, it never ends for the, I mean, honestly, for the Latino people who voted for Trump, too. It doesn't End with just the people you want them to ruin the lives you want to ruin. Like, it always goes further. And to think you're safe as a woman from this movement of purity, you know, of like what their idea of female purity, do you think you're going to be safe? Or some people you care about are going tobe safe should illustrate that this is a bad idea to do. I mean, it's just not it's really harmful in every way. And and by the way I'm not it's already harmful enough because it's harming trans people but it it's also a movement of enforcing this exact patriarchal idea of what women should look like at all times and

0:38:52 Lydia: It is. It really is. Yeah?

0:39:43 Thomas: It hurts all women as well cut

0:39:45 Lydia: Yeah. Yep. So in contrast with how she acted on the Megyn Kelly show, I'm going to Send you an interview that she did with out of San Francisco. And this is really really interesting. We're going to play this for a little bit, but just notice the difference in how she is interacting in this environment.

0:40:07 Clip: Asked about how and why she felt unsafe schlesser said the height that the person can jump is so much higher and honestly higher for a man. It's insane. And then the strength behind the ball when they're swinging is also just so much more powerful. But her transgender teammates stats don't appear to give the Spartans a dramatic upper hand. The San Jose State women's volleyball team is ranked 119th nationally. But nonetheless, Lesser claims safety is one of her top concerns. There's many times for multiple people all the time that we're having the try and dodge the balls that are coming up straight at our face.

0:40:43 Thomas: Many times. Oh my god.

0:40:48 Clip: I've been hit multiple times by the balls, and I've had bruising on my legs just from trying to dodge it, and it catches my thigh, and I haven't had a bruise on my thigh for weeks.

0:40:49 Lydia: That's volleyball.

0:40:53 Thomas: You've got to be kidding. Oh my God.

0:40:57 Clip: Bumps, bruises, and minor injuries are common in Division I volleyball, as is practicing against men. But when pressed, Schlesser said she's never been injured to the point of coming off the court. In total, there are approximately 500 ,000 female athletes in the NCAA. Trans female athletes account for less than 50. It's an important conversation for us to have. Cyd Zeigler, a co-founder of Outsports.com, an LGBTQ -focused publication, says it's a discussion that needs to be had. I've been running Outsports for 25 years. I've written about trans athletes over two decades before anyone was talking about it. For me, it's important for every athlete to have a path to inclusion. He added that in this particular case, the issue should not be with the San Jose State Volleyball player, rather the governing bodies. This athlete is not the problem. If you have an issue with this athlete competing, your issue is with the NCAA and USA Volley Ball. Bring it up with them. Since becoming the only member of the San Jose State women's volleyball team to speak out, Schlesser has become the face of the controversy. This season, six teams have chosen to forfeit matches against the Spartans. I think the biggest issue is, one, it's not safe, like with what we've talked about. It's just no woman is ever going to have that strength and power that they have. And two, they're taking opportunities and scholarships and medals away from women that have worked

0:40:57 Thomas: Fuck you. Weird. Multiple

0:42:26 Clip: Their entire lives for it. KTVU reached out to San Jose State University. They said they're unable to comment due to student privacy laws. In San Jose, I'm Bailey O'Carroll, KTVU.

0:42:27 Thomas: Of them. Wow. Yeah, good. The

0:42:35 Lydia: San Jose State's really held the line on that. Will not comment. You know, the head coach has not commented. The associate coach is commenting. They actually suspended her, the associate coach.

0:42:46 Thomas: Coach? Yeah.

0:42:48 Lydia: Yeah. Suspended her because of the participation in this and violating, I'm sure, plenty of paperwork.

0:42:54 Thomas: They have a no hateful witch hunt rule? Good. That's

0:42:58 Lydia: For me, what really stood out in the way that she presented herself with Megyn Kelly versus KTVU is she never misgenders her teammate in the KTV interview. Interview. She says they all the time. She's perfectly capable of it. But when she's on Megyn Kelly show, she says him, he constantly is doing that. And then the way that that she approaches, you expressing her concerns. It's very different in those two interviews, too. I think that Brooks Lesser knows what she's doing 100 percent. And I think on it in she's in the environment that is going to be receptive to it. And part of the other reason why I believe this is because when they, you know, were looking into her mom, her mom is a big, big supporter of her. Her mom though, however, has not responded to any interview requests or anything like that. And so, you Know, reporters have done a little bit of digging on their own because she is posting anti -trans content now and turns out she's been posting anti -trance content since 2021 so this is just this is part of who this family is um brooke had a problem with her teammate when she found out that she was transgender and that's the only thing that's it there did not complain about her height she did not complain about her power she did not complain about um that were you know being prevented to other students or whatever at san jose state none of that happened until she found out that her teammate was transgender that was it I right so in that ktvu interview, you heard the reporter kind of fact -checking some things alongside

0:43:15 Thomas: Interesting. Yeah

0:44:39 Lydia: Brooke's one

0:44:39 Thomas: Not in real time though obviously it's the kind of the voiceover but yeah yeah

0:44:43 Lydia: Right. That's what I mean. Real time for me.

0:44:45 Thomas: I just want to let everybody know yeah makes

0:44:47 Lydia: And one of the things that she mentioned was that there are, you know, about 500,000 NCAA student athletes female student athletes and of those less than 50 are transgender and of the things for the NCAA in order to compete in sport uh you know division that you identify with with regard to your gender is specific the NCAA used to have like a broader policy. And then they ended up kind of trimming it back and they decided to go sports specific and leaning on, you know, the governing body of that sport to make the decision.

0:45:27 Lydia: And think that's totally reasonable, right? So So when we're looking at the NCAA's expectations for women's volleyball, it's going to be based off of USA Volleyball's for eligibility. For transgender women 18 and over, they are required to maintain testosterone levels of under 10 nanomoles per liter for a minimum of one year. Now, what the heck does that mean in comparison to like, how would you know? Obviously, blood tests. But comparison, to what that looks like for men, it's essentially, for cis men, It's essentially like the very bottom of what you would expect for testosterone levels in men. Testosterone is also like a complicated situation, right? Because, yeah,

0:45:25 Thomas: Sense I was gonna say because a lot of these are distribution so I'm sure many women probably some of these fucking athletes many cis women are above those levels I would imagine yeah

0:46:17 Lydia: It's always going to be a range. It's always gonna be a different level at any point in time. Is also something that isn't just activated by what genitals are, right, Right. Like these are things that are tied to a lot of different parts of your body. And, for example, women with polycystic ovarian syndrome, they often have heightened testosterone levels because of the way that their body manages androgen within their various systems. Systems.

0:46:45 Thomas: Yeah often one of the first sign of that is if you put a volleyball through someone's skull by hitting it so hard they're like you might have this syndrome obviously

0:46:54 Lydia: Yeah. So when you're looking at, you know, transgender women having, you more than 10 nanomoles per liter for over a year, in comparison to that, cis women are generally 0.7 to 2.8. with PCOS are typically between 2.0 and 5.2. And And then men are between like 10 and 30, cis men. So it's, it's a very wide range, can change over the course of time. But if you are taking hormone therapy to address you know, I don't even know like, okay, testosterone, not just it being an imperfect way to measure how male you are, how female male you are. Other piece of it is, how does it express itself in some of those like athletic abilities, right? Because even with men, you could have high testosterone and be really bad at a sport. Yeah, you can have low testosterone and be really good or have like a really good work ethic. And so you're practicing all the time. And like you have a specific skill for this. Like I would be curious to see a study of like Olympic athletes. Right. And I'm just thinking back on gymnastics and like the various, you know, sports specific things like you could look at sports specific. And I would be curious to see, you know, like women in gymnastics versus men in gymnastics. And what's the testosterone difference there? And I don't know. I don'T know what it is, because the other piece of it, too, is when you are a incredibly competitive athlete, that actually has an impact on your growth when you're young. And so you see that a lot with like gymnasts where they're the way that they practice and what they put their bodies through and everything like that. It actually ends up influencing the expression of, you and stuff. And like you have athletes who end up not having their periods anymore. Like a lowered estrogen situation. Like this stuff is very, very complicated, I guess, to your earlier point. It's not just the policy and the execution of that policy and like figuring out a way to make sure that things are inclusive for people, but also just like the science of it. Like, it's not like a clear -cut, you know, you belong in this box, you belong in that box, and think it's a testament to how gender is fluid, and pinning it down, it can be complicated.

0:47:51 Thomas: Here yeah yeah I think it's another thing where there you know I don't think I'm not going to pretend I don'T THINK WE NEED TO PRETEND that there would never be any issue like when you draw lines for anything with humans There's always going to be edge cases of stuff where it you might worry about fairness. Like what I think is that, A, this is not a problem. Obviously, it's demonstrably not a problem. Like the people dominating the league seem to be cis like all the way down. And B, it'S like you could take a look at the actual numbers. And as you say, 50 out of was it? Wait, you

0:49:54 Lydia: Than 50, 500 thousand female student -athletes.

0:49:58 Thomas: That be right? Right? That's, that's a lot.

0:50:00 Lydia: So when I looked it up, I mean, that's what KTVU said, that it was female athletes. Not I see that it it was assigned to females specifically so that might be a mistake that they made yeah

0:50:08 Thomas: I think that was total. So yeah, I am seeing a random one that says 229 ,000 female athletes in the NCAA. Yeah. So, but yeah, I mean, this is negligible numbers. It's, it's just, it'S just something that's better left to the people in charge of this, you know, like it's Just let them, they, sounds job is to figure this out, let them figure it out.

0:50:15 Lydia: About half yeah there know I think that there's going to be uh on on how oral arguments go for U .S. v. Scrimeti coming up, know, we'll probably have more information soon because if it's something where the Supreme Court that a state has deny access to medical care for some of its constituents, then it might be a situation where, you know In some of these states, over the course of a generation, you won't have any athletes that qualify if they're transgender because they can't necessarily meet the hormone requirements unless those things change. So it'll be interesting to see, I guess, what kind of argument they're making there. Again, with ICONS, the Independent Council on Women's Sports, with their amicus, they really, really focused in on, again, women's equality with sports. Like that's that's their bread and butter. But again, they're they're also joined with and these entities also join them in their fight, their legal fights do no harm. And we talked about that at length with January Littlejohn and story through John Ronson's podcast. Right. Right. So I talked about before. It's this interconnected web. What's unfortunate is that we are looking at now an administration that not only says it's OK to have these positions, but actively fans the flames of them. And said, Donald Trump sharing out that video of this player spiking the ball and saying that it hit this girl's head when it didn't and people to feel afraid of something that's not something to be afraid of or that everybody should be worried about in all sports. Because these are also people who watch football and have no issue watching

0:52:23 Lydia: Football and the lasting brain damage that happens to those players with repeated concussions. Like it something that was striking to me watching this that like, OK, do we care about do we share about athletes safety or not? That's the question.

0:52:39 Thomas: We care about women because it's a patriarchal thing of setting them on a pedestal and you have to rescue them.

0:52:45 Lydia: I also don't think that if it were just cis women versus cis women, then I don't Think they would react at all. It's just because it's just because of this belief that

0:52:55 Thomas: It's perceived to be men doing something Yeah, it's just really sad. I think ultimately when you boil it down, it just comes down to people who don't think being trans is real. That really is all it is. If you think being Trans is real, you think gender dysphoria and all of that, if you think that's a real thing, then it's like, well, some number of those people are going to like sports. And it's good that we have you know rules that make that as fair as possible and that's that you but if you think it's not real and you don't respect their dignity you're like all right well I'll try to tolerate it maybe or not but if it ever you like it's affecting anything I care about then I'm gonna make a whole fucking deal about it because they don't they they don't think it's real. They don't respect it. And it's really sad. I can't just the, amount of sadness in this, you know, just like that person's, how do you go? I don't understand how you look someone in the eye after this.

0:53:55 Thomas: Like how, how does this awful person who's this captain continue? They play on the team. Like, how did they just, it's, it'S mind blowing to me it's really sad and not as though when you file a legal thingy you type it up that day and then it's up it's like no if that comes out that takes weeks if not perhaps months of preparation I know that was a faster one maybe but like that's

0:54:02 Lydia: I mean they're two of the best players on on their team. Yeah you no not not the initial complaint the Mountain West one. Yeah for sure. But yeah but her joining the NCAA and she didn't tell the athletic staff Brooks Lesser didn't help the athletic staff until about an hour before it went up. Yeah blind blindsided the athletic staff.

0:54:26 Thomas: The yeah wow wow yeah she would have known for a long time So a premeditated attack that is obviously going to endanger the physical safety of your classmate, your teammate, um,

0:54:50 Lydia: Much so that San Jose State, they've said that they've had to hire additional security on behalf of that student as well as Brooke. And so this is a publicly funded college that is now spending who knows how much money on additional security for this situation that Brooke created herself. Also wanted to mention too, I totally glossed over this. Has also turned into like like going down a conspiracy route. So when I talked about the associate coach, her name is, I think, Melissa Batey Smulas. She came over with the coach right now. They started coaching in 2023. So this is their second season in with them. And they had coached at schools previously and do well together. But this assistant coach, associate coach, joined Brooke's efforts and then said that the teammate met up with a Colorado State player the night before a game and that they colluded to leave parts of the court open to make Brooke Slessor vulnerable to kills from the Colorado state player. And the plan was to physically retaliate for Slesser being involved in the NCAA lawsuit. Yeah. So this associate coach is going out and saying this happened. I know this happened. And they, you know, obviously look anything, any sort of allegations like that. There's zero evidence for it.

0:55:25 Thomas: A name. You can't fuck around with the NCAA. Like you you can'T throw, you know, that's like classic with it. Like the gambling stuff. Yeah.

0:56:24 Lydia: Throwing games. Yeah yeah.

0:56:27 Thomas: That's not something they're like cool with. I

0:56:30 Lydia: And so you know the coach has had to come out and deny the allegations. Said there are people on this team that don't want certain people to be able to play and to continue to stay on this theme and the university and I have made the decision that everyone certified to play volleyball on San Jose State will remain a part of this program until the end of the year. End of story.

0:56:48 Thomas: Would hope it's not their decision, but that's just me.

0:56:51 Lydia: Oh I don't I don' think necessarily is right because they would have to be following Mountain West Conference and NCAA

0:56:54 Thomas: On title nine and yeah whatever else

0:56:58 Lydia: I mean I guess it depends on how the lawsuits all work out but um didn't stop there with this like oh they had a plan to to sure that Brooke could get hurt it went beyond that so then like you know you have your right wing media eco sphere um kind that. And then at a Colorado State volleyball game shortly thereafter, that player that supposedly met with the transgender player at San Jose State was kneeling during the national anthem along with two other women on the team. And people were like, oh, my gosh, is this like because of the student at San José State? You know, are they kneeling because of X, Y and Z? Like how disrespectful to the flag, et cetera, et zebra. And basically saying like that they're kneeling to the flag because of the way that, you know, a transgender volleyball player at a different school is being treated and, you Know, how dare they and yada, yada. And then to the point where like, a representative from the school, like an adult from the School had to come out and say they've been doing this since 2021. Like since they started

0:57:59 Lydia: At this school.

0:57:59 Thomas: We just hate the police yeah

0:58:01 Lydia: They're all women of color. They've been doing it because yeah, because like that is something that matters to them with regard to to Black Lives Matter, obviously, and stuff. And so it's just people taking these like little things and and them. And just, yeah, it really, really does.

0:58:13 Thomas: It consumes their entire lives it really does face

0:58:17 Lydia: And to the point where that associate coach has been suspended from her job because she has let this consume her in this way, where, you know, Brooke Slusser is like, this is what she's going to be known for. And that was probably OK with her, because you see people like Riley Gaines, who they're doing fine. They're doing just fine being the, you know, the disruptor of. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

0:58:38 Thomas: Of transphobia yeah in sports

0:58:40 Lydia: Exactly. And so Brooks Lesser is being recruited essentially to that and, you know, getting her media appearances in on Fox News with Megyn Kelly, with OutKick, you know, The Daily Wire affiliated right wing sports site, all those things. She's getting that time in and she's going to she's going to have a career after this. Know, probably not in volleyball, but in transphobia. So yeah, you

0:59:08 Thomas: There is a professional transphobic league there is not I mean there is pro volleyball of some kind but oh

0:59:16 Lydia: I do want to look up because the Mountain West tournament championship game is probably done. Oh, Colorado State won. Beat San Jose State.

0:59:25 Thomas: Boy, you can't even, can't even get a championship at all this, huh?

0:59:29 Lydia: I know. That's a bummer.

0:59:31 Thomas: So it just so happens that we're recording this right as that Mountain West tournament was happening in San Jose State, I guess, know, due to a lot of forfeits, although we don't know what would have happened otherwise, but was in the finals and they lost. So weird. Couldn't amazing. I mean, I wonder how many limbs and heads the other team lost, but they were still able to power through that's impressive yeah and that might be the end of the story the way it works is you still could get into the well okay I'm assuming there's a ncaa tournament that the same format as basketball um I think that's usually how there's some sort of playoffs you know whatever bracket type thing um could conceivably still get in if they were uh

1:00:13 Lydia: Doesn't have to do with their ranking, though, and they're not ranked well. Yeah.

1:00:15 Thomas: They're not ranked. I mean, that could have changed because of this tournament. Like sometimes you can, yeah. You know, it's, it's been a while. I actually don't pay attention to college sports that much anymore. I do. But I do remember you can make it somehow, you even if you don't win your tournament, but yeah, that's not not likely given that how low they were, you Know, before. So And this could be literally the end of it could be all, all done done entirely done oh I mean I'm just looking at projections for fun and that they're not you projected to be in it and it's doubtful they would be because they're They're not ranked, and, yeah, that's how it works. So that's the end of it. It's all – I mean, it's sad, but, like, yeah. That's the whole – all this hubbub, all the fuss he made, and it's like they didn't win. They're probably not going on to the tournament, and – so what do you have? What did you do? Why involve – you know, to that person's point, even if you had a problem with this, and fine. You know, if you have a if you think you have a problem with the criteria, have a problem with the bacteria, don't make it about this athlete. What did this person do wrong? They've followed your rules. They followed the NCAA's rules. They're there's nothing at all, even alleged, it seems to me, of any misconduct or anything. There's any despite the danger that this asshole thought she was in. There a whiff of anything improper that happened? Any problems? Any anything?

1:00:34 Lydia: And the end of their season. Yeah, no, nothing.

1:01:37 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. So why make it about this girl? So it's so hostile. It's so sad. It'S so mean.

1:01:38 Lydia: Thing and because this was someone that that student had named as you know someone that she felt safe around that had expressed to you know the coach and stuff who she would feel safe with and comfortable with rooming on overnights and travel and she only named a handful of people and Brooke was one of them and then Brooke turns around and ends up being an incredibly unsafe person for her um just really sad um think they they considered each other friends before this you I don't know just really depressing um I do want to give a shout out to the ESPN coverage specifically on this um have a great article that does a great job outlining all of this stuff, all this nonsense. Katie Barnes, which has great coverage there. New York Times has been picking this up now too. And all of this could have just been handled in a much smaller, more respectful way and become come a huge spectacle. So yeah.

1:02:07 Thomas: Really sad. Yeah. It, needless. It' s needlessly hateful. Again, you want to challenge the policy, challenge policy based on, I don' t know, science it's based on something you know don't out this person it's horrible it's just mean evil behavior and it sucks all

1:02:51 Lydia: You know, ultimately, this is not something new. This specific situation with San Jose State is new, but Riley Gaines is not a new name. And I actually have a couple of things I wanted to share from a last year, around this time, actually, around December 2023, December 5th, 2023. And it was titled, The Importance of Protecting Female Male Athletics and Title IX. And the witnesses that they included were, of course, Riley Gaines, and then Sarah Perry, who is a senior legal fellow with the Heritage Heritage Foundation. I want to kind of focus in on this particular line of questioning regarding biological differences that Representative Paul Gosar from Arizona brings up. So if you want to hit play, I think the panelist handles it well.

1:03:44 Thomas: Okay, but in my sidebar, I'm seeing some really tempting options instead like comedians destroying woke hecklers. Fuck your pronouns. I mean, I guess I can ignore it for now.

1:03:54 Lydia: It's an occupational hazard of

1:03:57 Thomas: Yeah, it's ruined. My algorithm is fucked. Okay.

1:03:58 Lydia: Our job. I

1:04:01 Clip: Chairman, as an understanding of fairness is one that we almost instinctively learn from birth. Nothing offends a little child more than a sibling getting a treat and he or she doesn't. And America really hates cheaters. Just ask Lance Armstrong. Remember Deflategate? The inquiry of the steroid era was not kind to baseball. That is why beating women in women's sports is so obnoxious to the American public. Not only is allowing men to play in women s sports a flagrant violation of fairness as well as posing a danger to women in the locker room in the bathrooms making women feel the opposite of unique as then anyone can become one it normalizes and encourages the terrible reality and tragedy of children mutilating themselves in a misguided and hopeless attempt to change genders family research council cited the world professional association that the transgender health as a source of the following list of awful diseases that cross -sex hormones cause. Here's a list. Blood clots, high triglycerides, cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, high red blood cells, a destabilization of some psychological disorders. It defies common sense that mutilation improves mental health. For

1:04:10 Thomas: Which? Instinctively or we learn it? What

1:05:11 Clip: The love of God to everyone who promotes this terrible ideology, desist, stop. Every time you claim a man can play a woman's sports, every time you tell a child that they can be whatever gender you want to be, every time you read a book to a child promoting this propaganda you are risking the health happiness and well -being of our children please stop experimenting with our youth this gross graves when's your question is the genetic composition of a transgender versus a woman the same no well I'm not a scientist we're talking about science here so I mean I hope you would they're not the same so that's why you see all these physiological differences if I can answer though I I mean if your question is how do you define woman and woman is an adult female but there's a lot of variation that goes beyond my level of height you can't I'm not looking at a definition I'm talking about the science the science genetically is a man is a menace a different genetics and women plain and simple that's just I guess what I would say is that it is I'm not a scientist or doctor but is my understanding that it is more complex than what you are saying in that there is variation among men and among women and sometimes more variation among than there is between again I'm not a scientist and you know I I don't think the panelists are scientists either it seems like it may be a different scientific hearing that you can well that's why you have the differences that's what you see muscle mass that's where I see tidal volume that's how you see all these right variations so for example For example, in the WNBA, there's players that are 5 '5", and there's players that 6 '9". There's a wide variation. Now that you brought that up, let's talk about that. So the center for

1:06:11 Thomas: Guy's crazy who

1:06:59 Clip: The Arizona

1:06:59 Thomas: Do you think's gonna win all this here I think

1:07:00 Clip: Phoenix Mercury, she had to get a genetics test to prove that she was a woman.

1:07:04 Thomas: The liberty will do it I

1:07:05 Clip: Did she not? You know what? She did. And it's actually going to the problem with these sorts of sex verification and sex texting that when I think about what all women but especially black women whose bodies have historically fell outside the sort of typical what's considered the typical norm the idea that people would have to prove up their femaleness to play it's horrifying and it's going in the wrong direction I don't know anybody I theoretically disagree with you I think I think we've got to be real about with people about what their aspects are Riley how does playing in women's sports affect how do men playing in women's sports affect the esprit de corps of a team or the team spirit speaking to again my lived experience first and foremost it was a major distraction to have a male competing with us at that national championships it was all we could talk about as a team we were fearful to go into the locker room

1:07:39 Thomas: I disagree because I want to inspect everyone's genitals what whose fault

1:08:12 Clip: We We had to wait and watch if Thomas came out, then we would enter to avoid going in at the same time. Of course, our sport is very physical, but there is a mental aspect to it. And allowing men into our sports certainly negatively impacted that mental aspect, as well as the physical, of course.

1:08:12 Thomas: Is that sounds like a bunch of weird shit that you did imagine if someone asked me that about a woman and thomas what was it like doing a sport with a woman well fuck I had to wait I didn't want to be around it and I just had to leave when you'd be like what is some kind of creep what is some kind weirdo like what are you talking about what is that sounds like all stuff that you did what

1:08:46 Lydia: What's your problem? Yeah. Well, and then the comment about like, it's all we could talk about. And then and then you think about like Brooks Lesser, like, yeah, obviously it's gonna be all that they talk about because she decided to join a lawsuit while she's on the team with this player. Like, it'S just, yeah. Incredible.

1:09:06 Thomas: It's all we could talk about I I if they're just sitting there in the in the friendliest courters obviously the house controlled by republicans and this very weird guy and it's just like you have to come up with what the victim narrative is well we sucked during it why was this so bad well um we made it horrible uh and that's why it's not our fault question mark it's crazy oh

1:09:36 Lydia: You might remember him from um video he posted back in 2021 where uh was like an anime thing and he put his face on one of the characters and he Put AOC and Joe Biden on the other characters and then it showed him killing AOC yeah

1:09:53 Thomas: Do see that he's got a lot of stop the steal stuff this guy's

1:09:56 Lydia: Yeah he's he's a pretty pretty person uh yeah and there was um you know school shooting in I mean which one but May 2022 a rob elementary and he tweeted that the perpetrator was a transsexual leftist illegal alien yeah yeah and then shared shared a post from 4chan which included pictures of a trans woman who had nothing to do with the attack I

1:10:05 Thomas: What are the odds wow how would he even get that like you have to be pretty I'm not I don't even really know how to get to 4chan or it's 8chan now or whatever like Like, yeah, it's like not that easy or clear what that even is and how to look at it. At least it seems, I don't know. Anytime I've seen stuff about it, it is like kind of secretive dark web crap or no. But anyway, the point is, how does he get a hold of that? Like, is somebody on his staff into that? Is he into it? It is just crazy.

1:10:30 Lydia: I have no idea yeah I probably I mean he delivered Back in 2021, he delivered the keynote speech at the America First Political Action Conference, which Nick Fuentes hosted. And, you know, just as recent in like 2023 to his website, he posted an email that he had sent, I guess, saying that U.S. Army General Mark Milley should be killed. That he um he said that he was a sodomy promoting you know general or whatever and that quote in a better society general Milley would be hung how is this person not like not a huge list of ethics uh like this this is really dangerous stuff this guy is very scary yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:11:32 Thomas: Insane. It is amazing how they just get to have these nut jobs in Congress. In Congress. And then they point to us what they saw someone say in an internet forum once in 2008 or whatever and like that's a these leftists be crazy and but it's like this fucking weirdo creep wanting to inspect your genitals make it up a bunch of weird shit is a member of the house and he has been since 2011

1:12:01 Lydia: And was censured for the AOC and Biden video and removed from his committee assignments, but once the Republicans got back control, then they just restored him to all of his assignments because that's fine.

1:12:16 Thomas: Do right well that's very interesting I mean it's your yeah your alma mater where you used to play volleyball to tick tick tickle the floorboards with I don't try to side out I don' know yeah

1:12:21 Lydia: My alma mater. Yeah. No, no. yeah, it's it is tough. I mean, like, that's where my sister went to school there. My mom went to School there, my dad, my aunt, like my other aunt, my uncle, like everybody went to preschool there. Know, I've spent a lot of time on that campus. And and you would think that being in the Bay Area to be a little little more inclusive. But I don't know. Brooke is not from the Bay Area. So yeah.

1:12:50 Thomas: Oh boy yeah it's so weird well

1:12:55 Lydia: For a different sort of breath of fresh air, I think in this episode, we've talked a lot about what the point of all this. And Jasmine Crockett has a similar position. Representative Jasmine CRockett has similar position for that House hearing of December 2023. And why don't you pull up that second clip I sent you and we'll just listen to her thoughts on the entire sideshow.

1:13:19 Clip: Chair now recognizes miss Crockett from Texas oh okay all right so most everyone up here on the other side of the aisle has endorsed a person that has been found liable for sexual abuse of women to be our president of the United States but we are going to talk about how this this party is going to protect women protecting women what exactly does that mean are we going to talk about sexual abuse because we can get into it because we do have some real conversations that we can have about it considering the fact that we're currently in the middle of say a war there's been allegations of rape being used in war seems like maybe we could have a few conversations about what it would look like to prevent that what it will look like maybe go and get those hostages out maybe go and send some money to our allies it looks like we could do something of value but let me tell you this session we have set so many good records one of those records was we've had a record number of people that have retired or announced their retirements in the month of November from the house and from everything that I hear it's because this body has become completely unserious but we do have serious issues especially when it comes to women so let's talk about what it looks like to protect women in this country. When lawmakers like this are so far out of touch with what women need, we see states pushing back, at least states that will allow you to push back. I'm from the state of Texas, and, of course, they don't want you to ever have an opportunity to raise your voice in the state Texas. In fact, Ms. Perry, I know your organization, the Heritage Foundation, loves

1:15:04 Clip: Texas. Ooh, they love Texas. They always sending us some nonsense bills that somehow set this country on the wrong trajectory. They send them to Texas. They send to Florida. Florida, every deplorable state that we can think about, they usually coming out of y 'all's think tank. But nevertheless, when we talk about protecting women, what we've seen is say in the state of Ohio was one of the most recent states when their lawmakers didn't have the courage to do what they needed to do because of course we believe in gerrymandering. And because we believe gerrymandering in this point of order, I moved to strike my time. I move to strike her words, deplorable states. That's not a point of order, let the gentlelady proceed. The committee will suspend, whoa, whoa whoa whoa, the committee will suspend, just hold slow.

1:15:20 Thomas: Y'all's think tank it's awesome these people

1:15:24 Lydia: She's so cool

1:15:53 Thomas: Are so stupid point of order that's and I wouldn't say that is boy yeah she said it I mean this has become unserious it really is yeah

1:16:06 Lydia: You know, um, when we watched and again like I'm not trying to to tout Republicans necessarily. But when we watched the Swamp documentary recently and where it like followed Freedom Caucus members and at the end, Ken Buck was like, I'm not doing this anymore. It's interesting watching even some of these like Republicans that we don't really have anything in common with, like even some OFM kind of getting fed up with it. Mean, and for him, it was like it was moneyed interests and things like that.

1:16:31 Thomas: It's kind of different yeah it's a different thing

1:16:33 Lydia: But but it's still like, no,

1:16:33 Thomas: Because he's probably like man we should be spending more time doing show trials of trans people and what you know like

1:16:41 Lydia: No, I don't know if he cared about that necessarily. I mean, I think he just wanted to cut budgets to everything. And then the other folks in the Republican Party weren't as serious about actually like reining in spending and stuff. So he just kind of had enough and left. But I think it's interesting because I, feel like there, Crockett said, there is so much we can tackle to protect women and to protect LGBTQ individuals and to protect um people you of color and all these marginalized communities and like if you even just focus on women like the the one group that probably the republicans they say they care about um if we just focus On that there are so many other ways that we can protect them instead of devoting all of our attention all of Our energy on this very niche issue of um sports in college. And that's not to say that it isn't something to be talked about. But the fact that they had an entire congressional hearing about this feels a little ridiculous at this point. So I don' know. I just found it really interesting, you know, that obviously this is a fight that's been been going on even longer than this. You are some signs that it might be coming to a head pretty soon with those Supreme Court cases we were talking about.

1:17:57 Thomas: It's just a depressing it's, it's depressing how stupid it all is it's truly too stupid to even think about like they just do these bullshit hearings that are nothing they're the content of which is stuff stuff they saw on Twitter. And that's what a committee hearing is now. It's nothing. It is useless. It's really sad. And I think that what we see is that obviously they find their scapegoat and they locked on to trans people and specifically trans women athletes because it resonates. You know, it resonates with people. That's the fact of it. I don't know how much this this affected the election I don't know I'm not sure I'm not sure if it's hard to know exactly but I think there's a reason they're pushing on this and I think because it's appealing to a lot of people um think a lot of people are scared by this issue and I think all we can do is try to keep informing people and try to keep spreading actual knowledge scientific knowledge um of fear and it's just it's oh boy Boy, it sure feels shitty to have these people do all this, be unserious, and then win. That's our country.

1:19:10 Thomas: Yay. Great breakdown, um, ending to that really, um, sad bad story all around and needlessly hateful. That's the story of this era.

1:19:23 Lydia: And here's hoping though that that that athlete gets some peace and respite away from this and can live her life the way that she wants to live it.

1:19:33 Thomas: Yep. All right. Thanks so much for listening, everyone. Support the show. Please rate the show, please share the show and we'll see you next time.