How Joe Biden Can Go Out a Legend

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:00 Clip: You must never, ever give up or give in. You must keep the faith and keep your eyes on the prize. That is your calling. That is your mission. That is moral obligation. That is mandate. Get out there and do it. Get in the way. Change happens because people care. The people have the power to make this life free and beautiful. To make this live a wonderful adventure.

0:00:38 Clip: I still believe with all my heart, America can be a place where no child is left hungry, no community is left behind, and no one gets told they don't belong. Country is always worth it.

0:00:57 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Opening Arguments. This is episode 1085. I am Thomas Smith. That over there is Matt Cameron, real life attorney. How are you doing, Matt?

0:01:05 Matt: Thomas, I am having the kind of week where I am reacquainting myself with the backlog of Rage Against the Machine. That's where I'm at. And yeah, Zach Della Rocha, where have you gone? Come on. Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you.

0:01:18 Thomas: Yeah, I remember being a young conservative kid and hearing some of those that were, is it, bear crosses or work for one or the other? Whichever way it goes are the same that uh burn crosses and conservative kid I was like this is insane nonsense like what the what are you talking about and then it was funny like I heard the song later you know 10 years ago or something and I was like oh my god yeah oh wow yeah you said it geez that's exactly

0:01:29 Matt: Some of those workforces. Yeah. No, it's so fun. I had exactly the same experience because it used to be like what I'd work out to because it's great to work out too, and I wasn't really listening that much. And then, you know, the more I spent time inside the system, the more you realize you've got to rage against it. But I've got tell you, there's a line, though, I was thinking about in terms of today's episodes. We don't take the action now, we settle for nothing later. Settle for nothing now, and we'll settle for Nothing Later. Later. And So, that the mode I'm. In. We we can't settle for nothing now. Let's talk about what we aren't going to settle for and what we might actually be able to do before January 20th. I'm going to talk about this probably in a couple of different ways, but today we're going to be talking about the president, Joe Biden, and his lame duck era. So that's what we got today. And then we're gonna talk about some things that I think he should do. And we're just gonna talk a little bit about what he should and what he should do, and then we'll have some fun with something that he absolutely should not do from the National Review.

0:02:30 Thomas: I can't believe you've turned this around. My episode, Listener Thomas S episode request. I even expecting it so soon, but I'm glad because it really is important. And I again, I really worry that Biden doesn't get it. I think one very legitimate concern with Biden and Harris in the wake of the election is the he's a fascist. He's a racist. He's fascist, right? Right? We must have a smooth transition of power. I'm not saying we shouldn't. I'm Not Saying It Should Be a January 6th, but I feel like the rhetoric did not meet the moment. I don't know. Doesn't bode well for this, like, battening down the hatches or whatever on the way out, but who knows? I've also seen, you headlines here and there that he is thinking about some of these things, so we'll see, but let this episode be a guide. To make it happen.

0:03:11 Matt: Let's do it.

0:03:12 Thomas: Right, well, after this break, which you can avoid at patreon.com/law, and also get that Lotawful Movies that is, I'm going to go ahead and say is out now. That Lotawfel Movies is out. If you were in line for Lotawfil Movies, stay in line for Lotawful Movies because it is out. It was a lot of fun. It's going to be a nice distraction from what's going on in the world right now. Interesting and funny law stuff. So please, patreon.com/law. Get your hands on that thing and also give her to the ads. Right. After this, we'll get to it.

0:03:22 Matt: Stand one.

0:03:43 Thomas: Step one, Matt. Where do we start?

0:03:45 Matt: Let's start with the fact that Joe Biden is, in fact, a lame duck. I just wanted to talk about that for a second, what it means and the point that we're at here. And I know that we have a lot of listeners abroad who may know, maybe they haven't heard this term. A little weird to call your president a lame Duck. But just for everybody who doesn't know, that is the period. Now, there's actually it's been used in several different ways. It's often used to talk a lot about the fact That's obviously that's one thing. So Obama, Clinton, there has been a total of five lame ducks, actually, since the law was changed to only allow two terms in 1951 and but it's mostly sort of vernacular that it's used now is when we're talking about people who have just come out of an election and are waiting for inauguration day for the next person people are not going to be replaced they're not going be coming back so

0:04:23 Thomas: Is weird. It does imply that normal presidency is like a healthy know, like it's a duck either way. Yeah. It's a physically able duck, I guess. I don't know. Maybe we got to get rid of that phrasing.

0:04:27 Matt: Deck yeah yeah yeah a little ableist but originally it was actually about a stockbroker or he couldn't pay his debts back. It goes back to like the 18th century. And for some reason, Congress started using it in 1861. That's the earliest time that we could find it. But so the 20th, actually, the 20TH Amendment was the lame duck amendment because in 1933, they realized that there was about 13 months under the old system where federal elected officials could just mess around, where they just had this time where they knew they were out of office. Way too long.

0:05:01 Matt: You can't have people unaccountable. Can Yeah, get corrupt and lazy and unacccountable. And I mean that's Congress anyway, anyway, but extra corrupt, lazy, not accountable. You know, you don't want people in that position for long.

0:05:01 Thomas: Way too long. Yeah, it's still too long how it is. It doesn't make much sense at all.

0:05:13 Matt: So is. I mean, typically when you're fired in an important job, you have to leave that day for a reason.

0:05:19 Thomas: Yeah you're fired pack up your things and get out here in two months is what it is right that's our case though I'm glad it exists because Because we've demands.

0:05:27 Matt: Got some opportunities. We do. And I want to talk about those. But I just want to talk about a few other presidents and how they've approached him. Like I said, there's only been officially five lame ducks, and they haven't really been able to do that much because, you know, Bill Clinton was being impeached.

0:05:38 Thomas: He got to pardon his brother or whatever, right?

0:05:40 Matt: That's right. So Bill Clinton's major accomplishment on the way out was 140 pardons on his last day, which is a lot. Going to propose that Joe Biden do about $16 million more than that. We'll get there. Yeah, I've got a bold one here. But yeah, no, his half -brother and financier Mark Rich was the most controversial besides his half brother. That one's still pretty corrupt. In terms of Trump and everything else, it looks pretty good at this point. There's a long history of presidents. It goes back to the second president, John Adams, only 12 years after the Constitution took effect. Most famously, John Adams and the Federalist Congress passed the Midnight Judges Act. And the reason you've heard of that is because it went to the most famous Supreme Court case and the most important Supreme Supreme Court case in United States history, which is Marbury v. Madison, 1803. was all last minute lame duck appointments of 16 judges. They actually created six new circuit courts, appointed 16 new judges. And this is kind of funny to think about now. They didn't pack the court. They shrank the Supreme Court. This was a time when they took it down from six to five to avoid ties. There was a five -member Supreme Court at that point. But that every law student knows, and I hope every American should actually know, but

0:06:45 Matt: Marbury Brampton Madison determined at that point that the SCOTUS has the authority to say what the law is and that could decide whether or not these appointments were valid.

0:06:52 Thomas: Since. That was where we went wrong, and it's been crap ever since, yeah?

0:06:54 Matt: Wrong turn. Scale that one back.

0:06:56 Thomas: Of wrongly decided from the beginning.

0:06:58 Matt: Who knew how that could have gone? But yeah. But I mean, you might say it is a deeply rooted right, a history and tradition of presidents doing kind of emergency last minute stuff on their way out. So whatever Biden wants to do, it's not going to be all that unprecedented. Now, I'm going to suggest some things that have never been done or even really considered before, but it's not really totally out of line with the idea that you can try to do some things on your way out. Now, as we'll discuss, most of those things are not going to be permanent, but you can also kind of put the ball in the next guy's court to do what he was going to do with it. I'll mention a couple of other things that presidents did on the way out, George W. Bush didn't do that much, but he did manage to bail out GM and Chrysler, which actually the Dems tried to do, but the Senate Republicans had actually killed that package because, believe it or not, because it didn't slash autoworkers pay enough. So Bush came back and had to make up for that with $17 .4 billion. That was pretty much his only accomplishment I could find on the way out. But Obama, of course, you understand, but by the time we got to the Obama administration, executive orders became a regular part of life because Congress wasn't doing that much. I should mention that that every every simple lame duck president, the five that I was talking about all had opposition Congresses, and at least Joe Biden has the Senate right now. That's an opportunity that the others didn't have, and that could work to his advantage here. Obama was in a tough position because he was facing Trump coming in, and Trump had said specifically that he was one of the worst presidents in history and he was going to undo everything he'd ever done. About things like the Paris Climate Accord, the Iran nuclear deal, the normalization of relations with Cuba, expansion of national parks, Trump undid all of that. Offshore drilling, everything else. I mean, just like ran through everything he could possibly find and undid it. It. And, you know, executive orders obviously have been controversial recently, but, you know, Obama had several hundred. Trump had about as many. Went back and looked, actually. Washington averaged one executive year per order in office, about eight total. And John Adams only had one in four years. Can you guess the only president who never issued a single executive order?

0:07:01 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Is that guy who died, the speech that he gave forever?

0:08:46 Matt: 30 days. Didn't have time to do any executive orders in 30 days. Yeah, yeah. RIP.

0:08:50 Thomas: He's like, my only executive order is death.

0:08:52 Matt: That's right. The final order. FDR was the old timer, though, about more than 3 ,700, but he was also, you know, doing a war. So lots

0:08:57 Thomas: Three terms and doing a war yeah well he started

0:09:00 Matt: Of war. You know, a lot of steel mills to take over. Not war, but yes.

0:09:02 Thomas: A fourth right yeah yeah yes yeah

0:09:06 Matt: So, right, right. Got me there.

0:09:06 Thomas: He was I'm skimming past world war three he started at fourth world war no yeah fourth term he started fourth so it's a lot of time in office to get that uh done make

0:09:14 Matt: And they changed the law with the 23rd Amendment after that to not have that happen again. But yeah, so, I mean, there were all kinds of Obama executive orders that Trump immediately returned to. Things that I went back and looked, you know, obviously we know about DACA, we know about the drilling stuff and the national parks and whatever. But, you Know, at one point Obama designated three household solvents as dangerous carcinogens and Trump just reversed that because, you Now, why not? Kind of stuff. It's stuff you never hear about.

0:09:40 Matt: That's right. That's great. That's good. So, you know, just in terms of what a president can actually do on the way out, even when you have total immunity, as they now do in their core executive functions, it is pretty limited in terms Of what you want to do permanently. So that's what I was thinking about. Two sort of major categories is the stuff that's going to stick. And there's the stuff That you know that Trump is either going to reverse or going to have to work hard to reverse later. And, you you know, when you're talking about executive orders, those can just be undone with a stroke of a pen. If you talk about regulations that are promulgated through your agencies, those actually take quite a while to undo, but it's too late to get those started. You're probably not going to be able to promulgate. Unless you do some emergency orders, it is possible. But for the most part, it takes many months to get one of those actually finished. It's all going to be symbolic when you're doing things like that. And a lot of it will be useful for Democrats to be able to say, well, Biden tried to fix this problem and

0:09:39 Thomas: Solvents deadly again make Yep.

0:10:24 Matt: Look at Trump immediately reversing it. It.

0:10:25 Thomas: Yep, still worth doing.

0:10:27 Matt: Worth doing. All of it is. Everything we're talking about is worth doing. In terms of the permanent stuff that he can actually do and that'll leave a legacy, and I'm going to say he should just do all of this because there's no reason not to. There's two major categories here. First is judges, obviously. We got 47 vacancies, and he's 20 short right now of Trump's record. I'm gonna suggest this should be the Democratic priority. And the Senate leaders have said this is going to be their priority even before this election. They really want to try to get his judges through. And I think that they should do whatever it possibly takes, weekends, nights, harangue whoever you have to, to get these judges appointed. We cannot afford to not have every one of those judges seated. Should be the Democratic priority.

0:11:03 Thomas: At a minimum, this is a minimum.

0:11:06 Matt: No question. It's strange to think of now, but I went back and looked, and in 2004 and 2012, when you've got bush and obama both you know at the end of their terms there um they were both coming into second terms at that point but the senate still confirmed all of their nominees with voice votes um know those are opposition senates they just let them through very different times even 2012 and time the report I saw from uh an unnamed uh senate republican was that there's not a lot of time for judges and I don't see why we would make it easy for them, which is exactly what we should expect, obviously. But, you know, at this point, as we discussed before, Trump has appointed one -third of the federal judiciary. Donald Trump is appointed one third of the Supreme Court. Whatever we can do to try to balance that out, because we're going to need these judges more than we need anything else, I think, because judges were the only thing that held back the bad Trump policies before, the very worst of the Trump policies, I should say. And they are the only things that's going going to be anything close to helping us going forward for the next four years. So that has got to be the priority. But there's something else that Joe Biden can do that he has absolute power to do. And that is, of course, pardoning people. I'm going to talk about what I'm calling Pardon Fest 2024.

0:12:09 Thomas: Right.

0:12:10 Matt: It's time. Just want to remind everybody that the pardon power is incredibly broad, like it is so broad. And I'm gonna read just from Ex parte Garland, Supreme Court case from 1866. they're talking about the constitutional power, which, you know, you can pardon basically everything except impeachment. The power thus conferred is unlimited with the exception stated impeachment. It extends to every offense known to the law and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken or during their pendency or after conviction and judgment. The Power of this president is not subject to legislative control. Congress can neither limit the effect of his pardon nor exclude from its exercise any class of offenders. The benign prerogative of mercy reposed in him cannot be fettered by any legislative restrictions. Such being the case, the inquiry arises as to the effect and operation of a pardon. And at this point, all the authorities concur. A pardon reaches both the punishment prescribed for the offense and the guilt of the offender. And when the pardon is full, it releases the punishment, et cetera, et etc. So this is full -on unconditional pardons, what I want to talk about here. Now, let's start with the fact that Trump has threatened over the past few years to prosecute over 100 people, who are people that I would suggest should not be prosecuted. Most of those people are

0:12:26 Thomas: Gotcha. R. Hillary Clinton.

0:13:18 Matt: Involved in trying to, yeah, right, his political opponents, people that absolutely are inappropriate for prosecution, people that have done nothing actually wrong. Hillary Clinton was one of them. He tried to get her prosecuted, didn't go very far, but he tried. And he's threatened to prosecute journalists. He's threatened to persecute people who criticize the Supreme Court. He has threatened to execute everybody who's ever been involved in trying to prosecute him, including not just judges and not just prosecutors, but court staff at some point. So the one thing that Joe Biden could do right now is preemptively pardon everybody that Donald Trump has ever indicated he might ever prosecute. There's no reason he can't do it.

0:13:50 Thomas: I have conflicted feelings about this because

0:13:53 Matt: Why's that?

0:13:54 Thomas: Are you talking about like jack smith and like those kind of people man

0:13:56 Matt: Even one more shot on everybody else, right? Because, you know, he's made noise about prosecuting all of them, as have the Republicans.

0:14:01 Thomas: I think there is such a danger of this instantly verifying every single right -wing theory ah look he had to pardon them they must have done something wrong they must it was bullshit from the beginning he had a part in them there

0:14:08 Matt: He can... So I considered that. I was thinking about how you make this announcement, because it is, obviously, it's a little delicate. They're going to say that either way. But I think the thing to do is to say, we don't see any probable cause for any of these prosecutions. But just in case any any future administration thinks they do. And the next president has indicated that he thinks he has some reason to prosecute his political opponents. And I would put it in those terms to say these are political opponents, these are people who've tried to prosecue him, these're baseless. But just as a prophylactic measure, we're going to go ahead and make sure that people like Jack Smith and Juan Marchand and Letitia James are protected because they're public officials who are just doing their jobs. You can call it lawfare or whatever else, but it's think it's worth worth it. And And I know what you're saying. Is, obviously, when you're extending a pardon, there's an implication that somebody did something wrong. And you can extend a pardon. You think about the Ford pardon of Nixon, right? That Nixon was never charged with a crime. Nixon at first was reluctant to accept it because it seemed like he might be accepting criminal responsibility. And Ford actually wanted to make that pardon conditional on what he called a statement of contrition from Richard Nixon. And Richard Nixon refused

0:15:16 Matt: To do it, and he did it anyway. Know. Ford really just wanted to do it. So he went ahead and issued the pardon without the statement, but the statementthat Nixon did end up making, it was not a statement of contrition. It was, in part, looking back on what is still in my mind, a complex and confusing maze of events, decisions, pressures, and personalities.

0:15:34 Matt: It's just all a blur, you know? One thing I can clearly see now is that I was wrong in not acting more decisively and more forthrightly in dealing with Watergate, particularly when it reached the stage of judicial proceedings and grew from a political scandal into a national tragedy. So basically, I could have handled that better, is what Richard Nixon said.

0:15:34 Thomas: You're reminds me of the holy grail when he's like let us not you with who killed who this is supposed to be a happy occasion you know yeah

0:15:59 Matt: Who covered up what? Who broke into where? Yeah, yeah. Talking about a free, unconditional pardon that can be extended at any time. And I understand the precedent issues. I understand how it looks, maybe. But I think there's a way to thread the needle here. And maybe you even get an opinion from OLC saying that we don't see any probable cause to charge any of these people, but that just in case, because of these statements that have been made, we want to protect these public servants.

0:16:00 Thomas: Yeah yeah I so funny I hadn't really thought about until you brought it up I think I disagree with this one I think think this is actually something that we have to just, if they were to, for some reason, go after Jack Smith, for example, for one, there isn't anything to go after him for. So like they would have to be inventing a crime. I think rather than pardon, and I'm just talking about Jack Smith. I don't know, you know, maybe there's somebody where it makes more sense. I don't have to The messaging that you're talking about, we already know that that doesn't get through. So they don't, nobody on the right hears our messaging. They just hear the headline of, of pardon this person that Trump has been saying is corrupt. Trump has been saying has been going after them. Trump hasn't been saying, has Biden's been weaponizing the government. And now all of a sudden he's issuing a pardon for those very people who are going after Trump. And really the only only thing we're risking is like, to Jack Smith, but if, If Trump's going to invent a crime to charge him with, make I Trump do that. Don't think there's – I actually – sorry to kind of no -but you, but I actually think this would be a bad idea.

0:16:57 Matt: Hey, we got to disagree sometimes. It's important. And I think it's an interesting debate. I haven't really seen people talking about this one, but I've been thinking about expansive use of the pardon power. Now I will say the proposal that I have today, I think that this part of it would get overshadowed by what I'm about to propose.

0:17:28 Thomas: Well, listeners, chime in.

0:17:43 Matt: So, you know, possibly.

0:17:41 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, and I think I'm going to agree with your later proposal.

0:17:47 Matt: But let's sort of work up through the proposals. And certainly you're going to agree with everything else I'm going to say here, I think, which is Joe Biden ran on his opposition to the death penalty when he ran. And right now he has a chance to show that by commuting these sentences of all 40 people on a federal death row right now. There is no reason not to do that. Just get them off a death row and show that you meant it when you said that you were opposed to the Death Penalty. Don't leave those people because Trump will execute them. He executed a lot of people in his term.

0:17:51 Thomas: I think so. Now, what happens – can you commute just the death part, or are they free to go?

0:18:16 Matt: And Yeah, no, commutation can substitute a lesser penalty. So you could have life, and you could potentially fully pardon some of these people. I don't know a bunch about who's on federal death row right now, but that's case by case. But at the very least, let's make sure that we don't leave 40 people for Trump to kill. I think that we can agree on that. That. Easy one. And, you know, Trump has talked about expanding the use of the death penalty in ways that are very concerning. I'm sure maybe you've heard about some of this, but he's talking about potentially recommending death for anybody who's ever reentered after deportation, if they can possibly be eligible for the death penalty, like, automatically. He's talking abut death penalty for child sex abusers, for drug traffickers. There is, technically, in federal law, there is a provision that allows them to execute federal drug drug traffickers. It's never been used before.

0:18:32 Thomas: I agree with this one. Wow. What?

0:18:58 Matt: And it was almost certainly unconstitutional because we've already decided, the Supreme Court has already decided that you can only give the death penalty for murder. But if he tries this one, maybe they'll decide drug trafficker should get it too. Could happen. It is in the law. It has just never been use.

0:19:01 Thomas: Why? This Supreme Court is likely to back him on pretty much anything like that.

0:19:17 Matt: And the expansion of the death penalty is very concerning. Like that is something we just can't see in this country. In terms of other very reasonable just pardons, was kind of on a campaign to try to ingratiate himself to people of color by pardonning offenders who

0:19:30 Thomas: Remember, and actually Lydia and I covered in the New York rally, there was one of them who spoke. I so I guess you could say that might have worked in a way. It sounds like that guy was supporting Trump who spoke at the rally. And also, I mean, Trump did make some inroads with black men in the election. But yeah

0:19:36 Matt: Yeah, Wayne, I think, and Kodak Black also got clemency one got me out of federal prison, I don't know, it'd be hard not to say something. But well, no, I could not say something something.

0:19:53 Thomas: Gotta say boy you sure do suck but I like not being in prison wait I first I'd say um my lawyer can he put me back no okay hey you really suck but thanks for taking me out of prison I do appreciate that

0:19:56 Matt: Thanks for that. Yeah. I remember Kim Kardashian got, I was at Alice Johnson as a woman with the first time drug offense and she pushed for that so that goes to my next point though that right now there are so many drug offenders of many different kinds in federal prison. Just pardon them all, make the point and maybe get ahead of Trump. Maybe get the jump on that because, you know, there's no reason that we can't show that mercy. We should be showing it And, you know, just go hog on pardons. There's no reason not to. Go out a legend. And if you really want to go out a legend, here's my big one.

0:20:21 Thomas: Do it there

0:20:33 Matt: Now, this is when advocates have been kicking around for a while. Technically speaking, and this hasn't really been exercised that much, a federal pardon can include civil offenses. So, is no reason that Joe Biden could not say that I pardon every single undocumented person in the United States. You could set parameters. You could say if you don't have a deportable record. You could say, if your only immigration offense was coming to this country without permission or overstaying your visa. And you could say every single undocumented person in this country right now cannot be deported, can't be put in immigration proceedings.

0:20:33 Thomas: We go yeah wow

0:21:03 Matt: He could do that.

0:21:03 Thomas: Now that's not citizenship or anything right that's just interesting

0:21:07 Matt: Nope, just protection. And it is, it's the single best way to protect against the mass deportation that Trump has promised. Because that really, I mean, there's nothing they can do about it. If that's what he does, that's why he's here. That's what's what it does. And are still plenty of other people who could be deportered for other reasons, for crimes and for old removal orders.

0:21:22 Thomas: I wouldn't say nothing because the supreme court could just just but yeah oh

0:21:25 Matt: They certainly, I don't know, I'm not even sure how that would get there, but you know, they could certainly try.

0:21:29 Thomas: Well uh you see a lady wants to make a website about how shitty these who came into the country illegally are and now she can't make the website so therefore

0:21:37 Matt: That's true. You know, actually, yeah, no DHS could put somebody in proceedings who's supposed to be pardoned and then, you know challenge it and take it up and that could get there. But again, in terms big swings in terms showing that you mean what you you say.

0:21:47 Thomas: I agree with this one I think this is a good idea needs to be again kind of contradicting myself because I do do think the messaging doesn't matter much. But I do think the idea being, hey, mass deportation, I think you should like put it, what do they call it? Put his marker down or whatever, like put his marker that if is really going to do this mass deportations, this is a horrible, horrendously evil thing that country will regret. And maybe conservatives won't see that message right away when he does that pardon. But if Trump's going to actually do this, it is something that maybe people will see over time. Like Once they see this is terrible and then they see that Joe Biden took this action in order to try to avoid it, even though the Supreme Court undid it and all that and the people were deported and we live in a hellscape in, you know, two, three years. Think that's worth doing. I agree with this one. Do

0:21:49 Matt: That's a fun one. Right. Yeah. Yeah, why not? It's mass. Mercy, right, in the face of mass deportation. Why not? And that's who we should be. And it is, to me, it's the simple, clean solution to this thing. And like I said, it is such a broad, expansive power that why not give it a try? Terms of immigration, we talked last time about a couple of other things. But I wanted to mention that as the head of the immigration system, obviously, Joe Biden can reset their priorities. And personally, I'd like to see him push through every pending citizenship application as quickly as possible and make sure all these people are sworn in. Got work permits that have been pending for a very long time. And right now, just as a small detail that matters to me, but it matters to a lot of my clients too, work permits typically are issued for one year, but because of the delays, the Biden administration was issuing work permits for five years.

0:23:17 Thomas: That what my friend just got? I

0:23:18 Matt: So Very likely, you know what that pending case you're telling me about, that she would have gotten that.

0:23:22 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, she said she just got her work permit, and I wonder if that means she got it for five years.

0:23:25 Matt: Great. She's covered. I mean, as you think about it right now, if you give everybody with a pending application, their five -year permit, they're covered through the Trump administration. So that's one easy thing that we can do right now.

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0:25:32 Matt: And unfortunately, we're going to have to talk about the Keeping Families Together program another time because we just got some bad news on that, but that'll come up again. But the provisinal waivers to get around those, As I've told you before, those are pending for three or four years right now. Reset USCIS priorities and just spend the next couple of months just churning through those. You can get them done in a couple of weeks. You can put the right people on them because

0:25:51 Thomas: I'm sorry. So dark. Just got some bad news on the Keeping Families Together program. I don't know what that means, Matt, but Jesus Christ.

0:26:01 Matt: Yeah. Yeah. They purposely, the court saved it until right after the election. This is the program we've been talking about that makes it easier for people married to U.S. citizens.

0:26:11 Thomas: I did see that headline. Oh, geez. Okay.

0:26:13 Matt: To have to be another episode. But, you Know, obviously I'm not going to shortchange it here. If you push through those provisional waivers, that would solve a lot of this problem of the people that have been waiting for all this time, and there's no reason that couldn't be done. And honestly, I don't know why Trump didn't threaten the provisational waiver program. He never did, but he still could. It's an executive program, so it could go, and we could make that a lot harder for people married to citizens otherwise. Was. Other thing that I'd really like to see is that if you have right now, in terms of forestalling mass deportation, in turns of trying to cut off what's coming, if you order DHS trial attorneys who are all under the executive branch operating in executive courts in front of immigration judges, right now they've been pretty good during the Biden administration about exercising prosecutorial discretion and dismissing many of the deportation cases in front them. If you've got people with demonstrated work histories with U .S. citizen kids with no records, because you've got millions of people in immigration court right now. It's a very thin pipeline. It is taking many years. The Biden administration's position was, why should we waste time deporting somebody with three U. S. citizen kids? Even if they don't have other immigration options, let's get them out of court

0:27:14 Matt: And, put you in somebody who's got a serious record. They have the opportunity right now to review all of their pending deportation cases and kick those out of the court. And I really hope they do. And we're going to start pushing really hard.

0:27:22 Thomas: Well, how is that just a question of you need the people to review it, though?

0:27:28 Matt: Well, I mean, they could listen to our requests because we've been requesting them for a while. And basically the way it works right now is once the case comes to a hearing, they dismiss it if it's in that category. But what they could do is review, and it's not that hard to do. You just categorize your cases. They've got plenty of help. And just try to figure out which ones are actually supposed to be the priority. If you don't think that a case is an enforcement priority, then that's it. Dismiss it. And you just file a one -page motion. It's not THAT hard. So those are definitive things that could actually have permanent effects and really help people. Could talk about a few more things that aren't quite as permanent before we get to the fun stuff. There's drug policy. And of course, we've talked already for a whole episode about the proposal to reschedule cannabis from Schedule 1 to Schedule 3. You know that I'm opposed to that rescheduling. And I think that we should deschedule. And I think now's the time for Joe Biden just to go for it. Why not?

0:28:14 Thomas: About messaging. Hey, guys, we're you know, we'RE going to need this over the next four years.

0:28:19 Matt: Yeah, that's That's right. Yeah. Doing it for everybody. Yep. But that would leave the ball in Trump's court, though. That would say, like, if you get things going and put it on track to deschedule marijuana, Trump's going to have to come in and say, no, actually, I oppose that, which I think he's been pretty reluctant to take a position on it because it's pretty popular with Republicans as well. So that could actually do some real good because it would force Trump to come out against it. Of course, there is foreign policy, which, you about 30 days ago, Joe Biden sent a letter to Israel saying that he was going to end aid if they didn't stop blocking humanitarian aid to Gaza, the military aid would end. And that is actually the second time he's made this threat. The last time he did, he decided that things had improved and they could restart the military aid. That letter was sent about 30 days ago. So, you you know, let's just end aid to Israel for now, because we all know what Trump's going to do. There's no reason not to.

0:29:06 Thomas: Well, yeah, so this would be in the category of stuff he should totally do that he's definitely not going to do. Biden's just he just loves Israel. I don't get it. It's really stupid

0:29:16 Matt: I know. Just saying. I just wanted to make the point that that's what he should do.

0:29:18 Thomas: It's important to say I'm not saying I I just want to bolster like I do I do think we should have a category in some ways of things there's a difference between here's things that biden should do because it would be consistent with biden's worldview and he should do them you know that's a question of like it's a tactical thing that we need to make sure he thinks of and they do, and they take the effort to do. It's a slightly different thing, still valuable, different thing to say, this is kind of against Biden's worldview, but here's what a president should do right now in that case. And we should still lobby for those I'm things. Not saying we shouldn't, but I do think it's important to think of those differently as all.

0:29:21 Matt: I'm with you. Yeah, well, no doubt. But, At you the point at which he sent a letter saying that he will end aid if they don't fix things, and they haven't fixed things, I think it's important to call on him.

0:29:54 Thomas: Fair. Yeah. Let's pressure it. Yep. Absolutely.

0:29:56 Matt: Follow through. True. Here is take everything we would have spent on Israel in the next couple of months and just send it to Ukraine. Why not? Just do everything you can. Just give Zelensky everything.

0:30:04 Thomas: That is a really scary thing. Putin. I has so thoroughly gotten everything he ever wanted from us for the last eight years. Like I just run circles around us and I think a lot of the world in ways that are truly disturbing. I don't know. You not calling, you election. I'm não estou dizendo que a interferência russa é responsável para o Trump ganhar, mas definitivamente não perdeu as suas chances e ele queria que o Trump ganhasse. And if they cut off aid to Ukraine, if They do anything with that. I mean, this is that stands to gain a lot there. And so, yeah, please, everything we can do for Ukraine.

0:30:37 Matt: Honestly, just do it and see what happens. I mean, I think at this point, just get into that mode.

0:30:43 Thomas: Think I saw he authorized American like like private security contractors to fight, uh, is the headline I saw. But stuff like that, like, yeah, please let's just do everything we Can.

0:30:52 Matt: Whatever we can before you know or you know if you don't want to send it just send it to jamaica or anywhere else but israel honestly at this point so uh so

0:30:57 Thomas: That's a good point. Yeah. Show up with a big big envelope on, uh, like some country we never talk about their door. Hey, congratulations. You've won the something sweet.

0:31:05 Matt: Surprise giant check yeah yeah

0:31:09 Thomas: Yeah. The, uh. It stopped Israel genocide sweepstakes. What a great, you know, make it fun.

0:31:14 Matt: I we got some big checks yeah terms of foreign policy, I also am concerned about Cuba because Obama normalized relations. He signed 22 bilateral agreements with Cuba and open trade, and Trump canceled that immediately. But there's no reason that Biden couldn't just restore that right now and get American companies investing in Cuba, like, right now, so that they're literally invested in this proposal, so to make it that much harder for Trump to undo it. We should not still be in this state with Cuba right now. It's ridiculous.

0:31:41 Thomas: Add to to that yes anding what is our problem with Cuba right now is it the that Russians they're they're communists they're red Cuba they're we got to stop you the domino effect is that Cuba is going to go come well Republicans are in love with Russia now what is what is even your problem with cuba anymore what is by their logic like what what are we even doing here yeah

0:31:50 Matt: Domino effect? Sure. No, communists, and that's it. And, you know, I've been there, and and they could use the help. I mean, they really are. They're doing very well, considering how limited their resources are. It's a lovely place, and I love the people, but they need the money. They need the investment. So let capitalism flourish. Then honestly, if you think that we need to win, then that's how you win. Otherwise, let's move on to a couple other topics. We've got climate. And could declare a climate emergency. That's something that advocates have been asking for for a long time, pretty much since he was campaigning.

0:32:27 Thomas: What, what would that do, exactly, yeah,

0:32:29 Matt: Under the National Emergencies Act, which has been used like 60 times, I like 30 of them are still in place, but it would allow him a lot more flexibility in funding and ending drilling and doing all kinds of things to just kind of last minute under the executive. I mean, he's already Been able to revoke permits and stop oil and gas leases and do a lot. And he's basically said he thinks he's Already as much as declared one, but why not declare one, make the point, we are in a climate emergency. It's 78 in Boston as of this day, as of this week. So, yeah, something's going on.

0:32:54 Thomas: What nice weather, I can finally come visit you, I haven't had - oh, my excuse has gone away now, ah, no, what else am I gonna think of, said that something like 30 emergencies are still in place. Can't think of what's a bigger emergency than climate change. Like, I really can't. I mean, it'd be one thing if it was like, well we've declared a state of emergency twice. It was World War II and, you know, something like that. I guess it's like, okay. I guess it's not like that kind of emergency maybe, but like relative to whatever 30 current states of emergency you're talking about, come on, like it's, this winter is crazy. It's, it's downright

0:32:59 Matt: It is the time. Yeah.

0:33:31 Thomas: Californian everywhere.

0:33:33 Matt: We need some flexibility here, and especially given what Trump is promising to do as soon as he comes in, to start drilling federal lands. The other thing I was going to mention is that Biden has the ability to designate new national parks potential or to get that going. At least, again, leave it in his court. That's what all this is about. Make them do it. But to drill on national park land, then let them tell us why, which

0:33:50 Thomas: I think that's important to say, but yeah, it's unlikely that much of this permanently fixes anything or, or prevents Trump from doing anything. I would say the judges is maybe the best. That's the most actual harm prevention that should last. Else is, don't I want to give people the wrong impression, none of this will really do anything except it will make them do the bad thing, which I think is very important. We're going to be switching over to a mode of let's do we keep people aware of the horrible things he's doing? Because they're going to do a million things at once. Flood So the zone with shit. You've said the quote a lot of times, and that is absolutely a an intentional strategy of theirs. And so making them have to do these things, giving us those headlines so that it doesn't just quietly, you the background, oh, is, like making them have to be able to do it. It so that we can make noise about it.

0:34:05 Matt: Doubt. That's right. Sure. That's fine. That's all right. Show people what they voted for.

0:34:40 Thomas: Yeah, like there's no reason not to do this.

0:34:41 Matt: Not at all. Push the point and let them show us. Agree And all the way. And I think, generally speaking, like you said, the judges are pretty much the only thing that are going to have permanent and lasting effects, other than the pardons, which will be great for everybody involved. Vault. Other you than that, we're talking about executive orders and executive actions that would not last very long. And we all understand that. But that's the part. With you. We've just had a good talk about some things that he could do. And I want to talk now about something that Joe Biden should absolutely not do. And it's the funniest possible way to talk about it, because this is the dumbest thing I've read in a long time. And I thought that everybody should enjoy just how stupid Mark Antonio Wright ideas. Now, this is the executive editor of the National Review. I just want to say that up front, the man we're about to read here. And he's either trolling us or he is just hopelessly addicted to the taste of boot leather. It's one of those two things. I mean, this man, and again, we're not here to kink shame anybody.

0:35:30 Thomas: Or he Or he think he's wearing the boots, maybe. I don't know.

0:35:35 Matt: That's right. Or he's going to be. Yeah. They're going to get him a nice set of fresh boots, but you know, again, not trying to kank shame, just safe keep it safe, sane and consensual here. But I really think this guy doesn't even even know he has a kink. I think it's that deep. But this man loves to lick a boot. So, you know, just saying. They gave like a Pulitzer in fascism. We're talking like an early contender this week.

0:35:53 Thomas: You're bringing new life to the Footnote foot fetish boot fetish that's the new segment boot fetis.

0:35:59 Matt: Actually, that might be it because I want to keep reading these fascists. I want to show people what they're actually saying because they're just putting this stuff out there. Boot fetish. I like it. I Like that.

0:36:04 Thomas: All right. Have said I've stayed spoiler free on this.

0:36:10 Matt: Fantastic.

0:36:10 Thomas: This can't wait for this. That am time to have a little fun but also it's like gallows fun and honestly

0:36:10 Matt: Well, get through it I it where we get it thomas that's where we're at

0:36:19 Thomas: When they uh set me up for the firing squad I you know I'm I'm going to laugh at them because it's so pathetic. Like, why not? This is a way to go out.

0:36:26 Matt: It's thing they hate the most this is absolutely the way so let's let's laugh because

0:36:29 Thomas: All right, you clowns. Here we go. Mark Antonio writes for the, as you said, the National Review. The first thing Biden should do this morning is invite Donald Trump to the traditional visit in the Oval Office between the outgoing and incoming president. Biden should extend all the traditional and lawful assistance to Trump that is appropriate. And he's already going to do that. Come on. We already know he's going to. So he did that probably already or whenever that's scheduled. Biden should then move to use his constitutional authority to pardon Donald Trump of all pending federal charges and relieve special counsel Jack Smith of his duties. He should then ask New York Governor Kathy Hochul to use her authority to part in Trump for the crimes he was convicted of in New York state.

0:36:32 Matt: Let's do it yeah come on right all right there's the setup

0:37:11 Thomas: Why? OK, let's. Oh, my God.

0:37:11 Matt: Let's see how this joke plays is.

0:37:15 Thomas: Should do this not because Trump is entirely blameless for the circumstances surrounding the indictment.

0:37:19 Matt: He totally did it.

0:37:20 Thomas: Not entirely blame. OJ wasn't entirely blameless for the murder that he did.

0:37:21 Matt: Just watch this language. Watch the way this is going to go. The language is incredible in this piece.

0:37:28 Thomas: Not because Trump is entirely blAMeless for circumstances surrounding the indictments that have been leveled against him.

0:37:32 Matt: Surrounding the indictments.

0:37:33 Thomas: Yes. He's not blAMeless, most especially in the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case. Well, that's the one that's already... You took care of that. The fascists got that already. Minimum, negligent, and at maximum, absolutely complicit in ignoring the statutes governing the handling of classified

0:37:43 Matt: Easy for you to say. I'm sorry. Ignoring the statutes. Oh, damn. I forgot about 18 U.S.C. 1751 again.

0:37:54 Thomas: My god yeah oh ah remember those old oh I should have had a v8 commercials that's gonna age me anyway that's a that's that's a classic yeah he hits himself on the head ah whoops that's like saying yeah he was negligent in ignoring the murder law that when he murdered somebody like it's okay he murdered Murdered somebody is the thing you're saying. Complicit in ignoring the statutes governing the classified information and possibly those concerning the obstruction of justice.

0:38:02 Matt: Who could have known? Was a law for that? Man, Right. That's right. Yeah. That is generous. It's very generous, Mark.

0:38:26 Thomas: Yeah. Okay. So when I just imagine how they wrote about Hillary with whatever the email nonsense they have with like of ignoring the statute's governing obstruction of just, is this a bit? This might be a bit. Are we sure this is real?

0:38:40 Matt: It could be trolling. It to be real. He seems dead serious.

0:38:42 Thomas: That's man those concerning the obstruction of justice oh I by the way I've um I think I ignored some statutes those concerning armed robbery I think I just like I ignored them accidentally it's just a it's not that I committed a crime it's that I forgot you're not allowed to hold someone up at gunpoint take their their money because I forgot it's statutes who can keep track we're overruled I've read a book recently really good overrulred by the supreme Supreme Court justice?

0:39:08 Thomas: How can I keep track of all these laws? Come on. Constellation of charges surrounding Trump's actions.

0:39:08 Matt: Too many laws. It's a constellation of charges. I'm sorry. I love constellation of chargers. Okay, sorry.

0:39:15 Thomas: Yeah, it's so good. Surrounding Trump's action on and before January 6th, 2021 are more opaque. Not because Trump's actions were not mendacious, self-serving and contemptible, but because I'm not certain that Trump's plan crossed the line from low politics and clearly impeachable conduct to criminal behavior. Though my mind is open on that question. The Stormy Daniels hush money prosecution in New York was clearly bogus, turning an embarrassing situation that should have been handled administratively or as a misdemeanor into a criminal proceeding. No, not true.

0:39:22 Matt: More opaque. Oh, great. I'm Sorry. So sorry. I have to go back for a second. The idea that it crossed the line from low politics, you know, like a coup against the government, right?

0:39:52 Thomas: Well, he's not sure. He's open to the idea that it crossed the line from low politics to criminal.

0:39:55 Matt: He's open. Mark, call me. We'll talk. If your mind's open, let's talk.

0:40:00 Thomas: If he's open, he should be. If he is open to it, yeah. Fault in any of the above, I can't see how the 2024 election wasn't a definitive verdict on the subject delivered by the highest authority, the people. Yeah, you know when OJ was found not guilty and all those people cheered? I feel like that means he was innocent. Like if they cheered about it, then we don't, that's, yeah.

0:40:06 Matt: Any of the above. I can. Well, if they'd elected him mayor of Los Angeles after that, then it would have been fine. He would have Been totally scot-free.

0:40:27 Thomas: Or not, a majority of the public chose to reelect Donald Trump as the next president of the United States. He deserves to enter that term in January 2025 with the slate wiped clean of the controversies of

0:40:32 Matt: Get ready for this one. The controversies of the previous era. The controversries of the pre - Controversies.

0:40:43 Thomas: They're just controversies.

0:40:44 Matt: Federal felonies to put him away for multiple lifetimes. Controverseys. Love it.

0:40:47 Thomas: Yeah, I deserve to be wiped clean at the controversries because now some people have voted for me. No good at all will come of an American president fulfilling his constitutional duties at home and abroad under the cloud of pending criminal prosecutions. No good whatsoever will come of Trump himself ordering the Justice Department to drop the charges or by crossing the Rubicon in American life of self-pardoning. Yeah, come on. That's amazing.

0:41:10 Matt: That last one. Crossing the Rubicon into, like, don't make Daddy pardon himself. I don't want to have to watch him do it.

0:41:17 Thomas: Yeah, that will truly be the Rubican. Not all the cooing and the other stuff. Not the crimes.

0:41:23 Matt: don'T make him do It. It's just amazing.

0:41:25 Thomas: Joe Biden does not often spend his time an office acting much like a statesman. Oh, come on, dude. But a pardon now of Donald Trump would be statesmanlike. Such an act would go along.

0:41:30 Matt: Statesman, get ready for this. Statesman. I'm sorry. You just used the words Donald Trump and statesman, like within like several words of each other. All incredible.

0:41:42 Thomas: No, yeah. Joe Biden, a guy who came, you know, brought like dignity back to the White House after the shit stain that was in it before. He has an act of very statesman like. But just pardoning an absolute criminal of all of his misdeeds would be that would be a statesman. What do you think?

0:41:47 Matt: Great. Right. The guy who walks around shoving world leaders is our statesman. Yeah. No. No. Yeah. Sorry.

0:42:00 Thomas: Just thinking of physics. My not very statesman-like. And such an act would go a long way toward ending the cycle of lawfare that if left unchecked will cause more harm and more damage to the body politic. Oh, body politic is like a fancy way of saying stuff. So that means he's probably right, this guy.

0:42:09 Matt: They love it. Yes.

0:42:18 Thomas: Ford's pardon of Richard Nixon. Okay, this is widely regarded as like a shit move. Like one of the dumbest things. Gerald Ford's pardon of Richard Nixon is the precedent here, and it's a good one. Ford's presidential proclamation, 4311, delivered in September, yeah, well, that means he's smart. He knows things.

0:42:35 Matt: I love how you give the number. Thank you. Yeah I'll look it up. Yes

0:42:39 Thomas: In September 1974, it was politically unpopular at the time. It enraged Nixon's enemies, but it was the right thing to do. Ford's Pardon put a bandage on a festering national wound and closed the door on a regrettable era in our politics. Hey, you know what's weird about that? Now, was Ford pardoning Richard Nixon before Nixon came in and took office again? Is that, did Nixon get to be president after that, Matt? I'm not great at history. I've got a bad public school education. That what happened? That he pardoned him and then Nixon's like, oh, I guess then I'm fine. I can be president again.

0:43:13 Matt: Yeah this might be a different situation. Is possible. Talking if you want a regrettable era in our politics how about the last nine years? That's much more regrettable. I don't know I didn't live through Nixon but seems like he's outdone Nixon by a lot here.

0:43:24 Thomas: I mean, Nixon's crimes pale in comparison to what Trump did. Uh trump should accept such a pardon if offered by joe biden trump should then find a way to at least rhetorically extend an olive branch to the outgoing president oh

0:43:36 Matt: I'm sorry. In exchange for being pardoned for multiple federal crimes, Trump should say something nice about Joe Biden. That's what he's just said.

0:43:44 Thomas: My god these people's brains are so like they it's they've just they've absorbed nothing but constant self-victimhood narrative for so long that like can't even look at that you're right to point that out that skewed worldview of what fair would be. Hey, you know what would be fair? You get to Have done all the criming you wanted, all the, the cooing, all the, all of the dock heap and the die selling secrets, possibly to people sharing the mirrors, but everything you've done all that hiding your, uh, the hush money, all that stuff. And maybe if, if let Trump do all that, he'll be like, Oh, Biden, not such a bad guy. That's fair fair is fair wow what a what a bar you drive a hard bargain uh mark antonio right executive editor of national is this them so I haven't kept up with my national review we got two more paragraphs to go but I do remember they did initially try to resist the the mega for a bit like back in the day did they just give in on that yeah okay that makes sense

0:44:21 Matt: It's just, yeah. Yeah. And that didn't go so well. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, they knew where the bread's buttered here, unfortunately. And this is all anticipatory obedience, as we're going to be talking about, but it's gross. I'm starting to wonder, like, what they, shouldn't he use organic boot leather or something? Like, there's something in those toxins that they tan this stuff with. It's getting to him.

0:44:53 Thomas: There's too much. Oh, that's the problem. There is too much lead in the boots that of the boot lickers. That's why we're in the way that we are. There are too much lead in the, in the boot leather. We need to get rid of that.

0:44:55 Matt: That must be it. Yes. Careful, folks. Check those boots.

0:45:04 Thomas: Not naive enough to think that part. Okay, here we go. Hey, in case you thought that last thing was really dumb, I'm non-naive enough to thank that partisan rancor will not be a major factor in our national life in the next weeks and months and years, but a newly elected president deserves a fresh start and a grown-up, gracious, and honorable approach to the peaceful transfer of power.

0:45:08 Matt: It gets worse.

0:45:24 Thomas: Trump didn't give, yeah, a newly elected president dessert. Trump didn'T give his predecessor that courtesy, the last time around, of course.

0:45:24 Matt: I'm sorry. Gracious? Honorable? Okay, yeah, I'm so good. Get ready. He tried to overthrow the government. He denied the election to like last week, but you know, that's fine.

0:45:39 Thomas: People saw it as unpolite, impolite is how they described it. They were like, ah, that was a bit of a faux pas. Trump put his elbow on the table and did a coup. And yeah. He didn't give his predecessor that courtesy the last time around. That's no reason, however, that Biden ought not rise above revenge to the level of statesmen.

0:45:42 Matt: Discourteous. Happened to courtesy?

0:45:58 Thomas: Okay.

0:45:57 Matt: Statesman, once again.

0:45:58 Thomas: For anyone caught up in the idea that such a move by Biden would, quote, let Trump off the hook for one Trump controversy after another. There's no need to worry. There will be other controversies, I promise.

0:46:08 Matt: He'll do other crimes, folks! That's what he's saying. There'll be more crimes. Because controversies are crimes, apparently. There you go. Marc Antonio Wright, anticipatory to obedience within not even a week of our new era. He is making himself heard where he stands, which is on his knees.

0:46:24 Thomas: Unbelievable.

0:46:25 Matt: We are. I thought we'd enjoy that one at least.

0:46:25 Thomas: That's really dumb. Yeah, I think we're going to keep an eye on the media's complicity here and people who are ushering in the fascism. And that's a – I'll give them points for a creative way to try to welcome – I, for one, welcome our new fascist overlords.

0:46:38 Matt: It's as long as they keep giving us fashion notes, I guess we'll workshop that.

0:46:43 Thomas: Gosh. Incredible. All right. Well, we got to keep in eye – I think there's probably – are there going to be more recommendations for the lame duck or

0:46:50 Matt: I want time. Because there actually could be a couple of things Congress could actually do even with Republicans. I have some ideas. It or not,

0:46:56 Thomas: Excellent. I done. Let's keep an eye on it. Let'S get the word out, everybody, because we need to pressure Biden to do these things, except the pardoning of Jack Smith, which I disagree on. You guys can, you know, let hey, let us know where you stand on that. That's sounds like Matt and I disagree On that one. It's not that important of a disagreement. But the other stuff, the judges for sure. I really hope he does that. That. Think there's a lot of stuff that we ought to pressure him to do. And thanks for doing this, Matt.

0:47:11 Matt: Game. Anytime.

0:47:19 Thomas: Let's watch out for boots out there. Keep say once again, check out Lawed Off of Movies on patreon.com/law, because if I say that enough, that'll mean I will make myself myself finish the edit that I really want to finish before this is done.

0:47:33 Matt: You think fascism is funny, you'll love the demons.

0:47:35 Thomas: They're people that are the subject of that lot of the movies are exactly the kind of charlatan that gave us Trump, really. It's like that kind of, that, if you don some evangelical religious trappings then all of a sudden a of stuff gets excused. All right well um safe everyone and we'll see you very soon thanks matt

0:47:42 Matt: It's so true.

0:47:51 Clip: This podcast is a production of Opening Arguments Media, LLC, All Rights Reserved. It is produced and edited by Thomas Smith, who also provided the fabulous intro and outro music used with permission.

0:48:08 Thomas: Boy you sure do suck but I like not being in prison wait was that guy used to do that? McMahon or something.

0:48:12 Matt: The publisher's Clearinghouse.

0:48:13 Thomas: Yeah, if I was just killing. Or is that the myth?

0:48:14 Matt: McMahon. That's right.

0:48:15 Thomas: There's one that's a myth that he wasn't the one that did it. It's those, um, what's his face effects? Sorry. I'm so tired. His, uh., you know, the, the the mandala I think it's a that might be a mandala effect that he never did ed mcmahon never did publishers clearinghouse or something like that isn't that funny anyway

0:48:22 Matt: Mandela effect. Mandala. Yeah. Needed a laugh. That was fun.