DOD138: I'm a...Sad Sad Fish with a Sad Sad Face

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:02 Clip: I'm the cool dad. That's my thing. I know now what I can offer you that no one else can. Complete and utter dependence. I'm a man. I'm sensitive. I need to feel loved. I need to be desired.

0:00:22 Clip: Telling is the only part of being a father that I enjoy.

0:00:29 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast that's definitely sad to be fishing because that shit is fucking boring. I'm Tom Curry. I've joined, as always, by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick.

0:00:39 Eli: Hello.

0:00:39 Tom: Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:41 Thomas: Hello. I would like everyone to know if you want to know how opposite Eli is to what people perceive him to be. Eli was, I would say not even late. It was like on, it was like time, on like on the button. And Tom and I called like a rescue helicopter. Yeah.

0:00:58 Eli: 9 -1 -1, right.

0:01:00 Thomas: We were like, this is not big.

0:01:00 Tom: I had a wellness check done at his home.

0:01:01 Thomas: Yeah, because he's normally, I don't know, at least like three minutes early every single time.

0:01:06 Eli: Seven cops came and shot my dog. It was a whole, it was a whole thing.

0:01:08 Tom: You can't

0:01:12 Thomas: Well, the next time be three minutes early like you always are.

0:01:15 Tom: Set a precedent of always being early. Literally look my dad's an always early guy and if my dad showed up on time somewhere I would be in a panic in a panicked I if he showed up if we're supposed to get together at 12 and it was 11 45 and he wasn't where he was supposed to be like his arm is blown off in a war somewhere like that's the only possible way this has happened

0:01:20 Thomas: Jesus.

0:01:33 Eli: This how bad my dependable earliness is. A friend of mine was doing like a pre -wedding celebration um he texted me hey eli I know you are within a five minute walk it was like an hour beforehand he was like hey I knowyouarewithinafiveminutewalkof this location we need the following things from the store will you stop pretending that you're not here already and bring those and I had to be like yeah yeah I'll get ice oh

0:02:02 Thomas: Jesus.

0:01:59 Tom: That's that's a very much a Cecil thing too Cecil has never been late that I'm aware of I mean I've known Cecil for for coming up on 30 years now. And I don't believe he's ever been even on time. If you want to piss off Cecil, be late with a cup of Starbucks coffee in your hand. I, oh, let me tell you a quick story. I was going to go, it was going to be Cecil, a very, very good friend of ours and myself. We were going to do a little of a talk to go just recreation. We're going to go like a skeet shooting. So just going to fuck around and just have like a day, just hanging out, doing nothing. So there's no agenda here, right? Right. There Nothing important is happening. But we had agreed to meet at my house at let's call it 8 a .m. I'm making up a time since it's been 15 years since this happened. And 8 a.m. rolls around and my buddy's not there. And like 8:05 rolls around. And Cecil's getting agitated because Cecil, of course, has been here since 7:45 waiting

0:02:19 Eli: The coffee the ultimate insult right obviously

0:02:55 Tom: In his car because he also won't knock on the door until 8 o'clock. Right. Because that would be rude. He's Right.

0:02:59 Eli: Too early is also rude yes yeah

0:03:01 Tom: So he's going to get there early is going to wait in his car until the appropriate time. That's just who he is and who he'll die being, right? I mean, it's a great thing. Like, none of this is a bad thing about Cecil. It's great about Cecils. Incredibly dependable. 8:10, 8:15, maybe 8 16, 17.

0:03:16 Thomas: Thomas wakes up and is like, fuck.

0:03:19 Tom: Buddy rolls up, gets out of the car, and he's got a cup of Starbucks coffee. Cecil gets in his car and drives home. Ha, ha, ha.

0:03:24 Eli: God drives away yeah obviously I'm I don't know if you did you ever have a time where a teacher didn't show up to class and someone you down to the you stood there in the hall like the huddled masses and so you sent someone down to the principal's office and I don'T know if this I hope this just happened to me but that that person was like if they're not there by 30 minutes after the bell you guys can leave and that's what I've been on for the rest of my life like if if any event is the broadway show funeral is running 30 minutes late I'm like no we don't have to be here no it's over the

0:03:30 Thomas: Oh my god that's so funny yeah yeah yeah boy how have you and I ever done something together no I will say you will never see me with the starbucks cup though like at least say that for myself it wouldn't be like oh I'm gonna take my time good at it

0:04:01 Eli: Principal no no the someone who just spent a week with the smits can I tell you the Smiths are never casual late right there's blood streaming out of Lydia's forehead a wound is hand stapled clothes on Thomas's arm and I'm like you guys just came down for breakfast what happened sharp stairs we don't have time we don't have time throw bacon at us as we get into the vehicle

0:04:26 Thomas: Because I try so hard to get on time once I've made myself late like an idiot. Like just I know, there have been times where it's genuinely a fucking mental illness. Obviously, I really make an effort with you gentlemen. That's why I was here on time to call that rescue helicopter for Eli. Like even noticed it in myself where I'm like, OK, hockey, for example, I play hockey. Hockey it's something I care probably more about than like much anything including my children no I'm just kidding I love hockey so much and even still I'll be like all right well if I left now I'd be about five minutes early and then my brain's like yeah so you can't do that that'd be fucking insane what are you talking about you can like I'll literally be in a of pair prison of my own mind being like can't do it that would be stupid you can'T be early and then all of a sudden I'm like 10 minutes later I'm Like what the fuck happened I don't don't know how that happened. And so I just want everyone to know it's nothing not to do with not caring about something. I do it with everything like,

0:04:46 Eli: Right can't leave now I mean saying yeah it's

0:05:05 Tom: So yeah you

0:05:23 Eli: No more tragic piece of fiction than Lydia Smith saying she's gonna

0:05:29 Thomas: Okay,

0:05:29 Eli: Be in an activity before noon in a chat thread nothing they're fucking what does it got Schindler's List and fucking Sophie's Choice have nothing on Lydia's message being like yep see you at 8 a.m and I'm like you you sure will old dog you sure well what

0:05:45 Thomas: Here's the thing. I, this is so funny. I don't Know what happened. I don't know if it's because of having three kids. I don't know if it's because Lydia finally just gave up. Cause I'm always late, but I'm the early one one out of the two of us now yes I swear to god eli I swear to god I am the one getting up and being like maybe not okay sorry not getting up that's wrong if it's in the morning I'm not the early one yeah

0:05:45 Tom: So so that was gonna be my question we already didn't believe you as soon as you started that sentence

0:06:07 Eli: Lydia

0:06:07 Thomas: I want I I'm becoming a hundred percent honest if it'S something where it'S like okay

0:06:11 Eli: His voice breaks into the podcast guest hey it's the fourth dad here he's a fucking liar right

0:06:13 Thomas: it'S not that no definitely not if IT'S something early that'S a still a challenge for me but pretty much anything else and there'S a lot of things that don'T start right in the fucking morning Somehow, I have a sense of how long it's going to take to get these fucking kids ready. And it's always 45 goddamn minutes. And I don't blame Lydia because you think, oh, well, if we start getting the kids, all we have to do is like get their shoes on and get like, you know, a snack and get them in the car. How could that possibly take more than 15 minutes? And somehow it takes four hours. I don't know how but I have updated my brain to calibrate to where I include all that in my brain and I'll still be five minutes late with that but Lydia I hasn't updated or something because it's here's another thing about me I haven't updated that I'm the early one so I'll constantly be like well okay if she hasn't started moving then I guess we're fine yeah exactly and then I'll be like shouldn't we keep going she'll be Like yeah no no, we probably should. And I'm like, fuck. And then like racing to get the kids out, you know, ready.

0:07:06 Tom: Have time yeah so eli are you is anna also an on -time person or is she a so I think I'm the only one here where I amtheon -timeperson and hayley is the eventually person or at least she used to be she's gotten much much much mucho much better over the years and that's because we've finally worked out about a system that doesn't make either of us crazy and that works like this one I have to be like if we're late I I don'T get to have a heart attack about that I just have to be like we're LATE and that IS a thing that sometimes happens and that helps me not have a fucking aneurysm because when we first started you dating and we would have places to go and we hadn't worked out like time management which is like a real thing you know like we hadn't worked out this collective time management issue and we were going to be late like my blood pressure would be like 300 over 200 because I can't I just can't do that like it makes me insane to be like not on time to anything it makes me feel like a fucking crazy person and so then I start to act erratically because I'm like ah so I've learned is one if hayley is still getting ready I have an infinite amount

0:08:22 Tom: Of time to get ready because Because there's

0:08:22 Eli: Infinite yep you do whatever you want start

0:08:25 Tom: Way for me to get ready at a pace that doesn't mean that so like if Haley's like, you know, picking out her outfit, can, I I'm like, I'll seriously be like, oh, she's picking out an outfit. I definitely have time to still shower, right?

0:08:30 Eli: A novel yeah for

0:08:37 Thomas: Take a nap. Yeah. Yeah,

0:08:39 Tom: Like I can shower, brush my teeth. I could shave. I can like write an essay for Citation Needed. I have plenty of time. It is fine.

0:08:39 Eli: A bath yeah I'm yeah yep

0:08:47 Thomas: Have have you seen those, you know, tick tocks or whatever of of like, you wife trying to eat at the pace of the husband or vice versa? That's a. Oh, oh, sorry. I thought I figured Eli has seen everything, but that's the thing people do now where it's like Like they set up you a know, a phone kind of like hidden and it just says like trying to eat at the same pace as my husband or vice versa. And it's like impossible. It's like that.

0:09:07 Tom: It, it is. So now what I do is I've recognized that, like, because I don't have ADHD and she does that, I have to be the keeper of time. And so I have a whole series of strategies where I lie to her about what time things start. I gently say things about what Time it is that have nothing to do with hurry up. It's already five o 'clock. Right. I'll be like, God, I can't believe it's already this dark at five o'clock. And that's a way for me to signal, hey, it's five o'clock, without sounding like I'm a pestering asshole. Hole I and it works it works great right because she'll like look up and be like fuck it's five o'clock and then I'm not the asshole who created pressure it's so we have this whole system and we are never late anywhere anymore we are ever late anywhere anymore it works well that we we don't go out as much as we used to but we are never late anymore we make it almost on time to absolutely everything except for once in a a great while. And I mean, I'm talking like it's happened twice in seven years. I'll be the reason we're late. So the other day

0:09:45 Eli: You go oh yep

0:09:46 Thomas: Never late anywhere anymore. Oh, you stopped going anywhere. Okay. That's yeah. Technically speaking.

0:10:05 Tom: We I were driving to an appointment and office had moved. It was a doctor's appointment. The office had moved. I put old address in my GPS and we were like seven minutes late.

0:10:05 Thomas: Oh yeah.

0:10:14 Tom: And she was so happy because I was the reason she was like walking with like a little, like step, you know, like a little spring in her step like he's the reason we're late it's

0:10:20 Eli: Hey sorry we're late hey tom remind me why we were late again no

0:10:31 Thomas: The doctor's like, anyway, I can't do the kidney transplant. It's been too long. You got to, yeah, the kidney is no good now.

0:10:35 Tom: Been seven minutes right yeah

0:10:37 Eli: Problem doc tom this is your fault yeah here's the thing I think me and Anna have started out I think it's different people because I think Anna started as a late or on time person but then shared airport habits right is that we are both 19 hours early to the airport people there's no amount of time you could suggest getting to the airport ahead of time that I'm not like yeah it sounds great it's awesome so 24 hours and I'll fucking tom hanks it right and then we get a job in construction and we learn a different language from the friends flan book I get it I'm fine with it right so I think that just crept into the rest of our life because I was always in such a because here's the thing and I want to own this if you are an on -time person and you're married to an early person your life is a fire drill right you spent your whole life just being like all right well we need to be there at 6 30 and it's a 15 minute drive it's six I think now is the time to leave and I'm in the car sweating and crying crying and vomiting out the window but the car is still so it's just splattered in a puddle down the door like a certain point you either give in to that psychosis or or you develop the like insane and I don't know if you guys have ever seen the mismatched couple because those people make abusive relationships look healthy by comparison right he comes in just soaked in sweat, eyes bleary, blood coming out of one nostril. She's still in her bathrobe and she's like, I don't know, he said something about a hospital. I wasn't really paying attention.

0:10:39 Tom: I know yeah I'll go a day early it's fine yeah right when Hayley and I first got together, I need 30 minutes or so with a shower to get up, like showered, dressed, presentable out the door. That seems to me it's always seemed to me like that's a reasonable amount of time, even for a guy. It's so easy. Right. Even if you're going to put on a suit, a suit takes an extra minute to two minutes to tie your tie.

0:12:40 Tom: Everything is easier. Right? Getting dressed is easy. Doing your hair is you get thrown deodorant. You know, I guess nothing is difficult. It's also easy. So my brain, my stupid idiot brain, I'm it takes about 30 minutes, maybe 45 minutes to get ready to go out. And I remember when we were first dating and we had like like a little bit of a mini fight about something. And I'm like, well, how much time do you need? And it was like three hours. And I was like, that can't be true.

0:13:06 Thomas: Oh my God. Yeah.

0:13:08 Tom: That cannot be true, but she's like, I, well I got a shower and I got to like pick out something to wear and I gotta like wait for my hair to dry and like, yeah.

0:13:09 Thomas: Tom had a stroke on the spot. I got to watch the Lord of the Rings extended version. Yeah,

0:13:19 Tom: And I'm in my brain that's what I said I remember being like it takes you a Lord of the Rings movie to get ready like you could storm the fucking Mordor or whatever in in my brain it's like that's six times as long but that is that's

0:13:19 Thomas: I get it. See,

0:13:30 Eli: It's not true. Real is why. Because it is not real. Do it.

0:13:33 Thomas: That's not real. Three hours is

0:13:35 Eli: Watch them. Watch them.

0:13:35 Tom: The amount of time it takes her

0:13:36 Eli: Wash them with your eyes. Be like, oh, really? Is that the amount of time it takes? Great. Let's do it right now. Let's pretend we're headed out. I just started a timer on my phone. I'm going to climb in the shower with you in my full fucking clothes there we go oh look at that same amount of legs as me not I don't know 18 legs let's

0:13:35 Thomas: Not real, there's no way.

0:13:41 Tom: You've never met Hayley absolutely

0:13:54 Thomas: Okay here's what I will say I've studied this a little bit because Lydia does not take that long but you know she can take a while here's what women do I think part of it men that don't do they well that maybe no but often they actually try like four different things they'll be like no no no outfits like oh really are she trying more than four outfits holy shit well okay Haley might be a special case but like and so they'll do the whole routine they'll do the whole thing it'll be like fucking hair and makeup for mask you know that movie with that guy with a giant head they'll be like all right here's my look and then you'll be able to see it and you'll like cool so we're going I don't like it and then you know and then it's like a whole nother thing like a hole different they do that several times sometimes and that does add up I guess because if they were

0:14:04 Eli: Lie is what they do lie about how long it takes

0:14:12 Tom: That's adorable. Yeah. Oh, 12, 15.

0:14:42 Thomas: Just getting ready with one thing there is no way it takes three hours I'm sorry

0:14:43 Tom: Well, it does. Yeah, no, but the choosing of things, but

0:14:47 Eli: Yeah that that's like if I was like I'm sorry every time I've got to get ready I just have to play zelda link from the past like I know you don't have to do that yeah I know look I know you might have a moment here where your brain tells you it's time to change outfits but you don't now look I will say as the other side of the spec when tom said 30 minutes I was like you misspoke it's seconds right the time it takes me to get ready for any event that is not the funeral for a person who said please wear a suit to my funeral is the time it takes me to take off my basketball shorts and put on my cargo shorts. That's

0:14:55 Thomas: Now you're talking now youre talking my language yeah yeah exactly no I'm with you either maybe yeah that's

0:15:26 Eli: It. Because the basketball shorts do not have the tensile strength for a wallet and keys. If they did, it would take zero seconds.

0:15:35 Tom: My god no I'm no uh -uh no that's insane that is that is insane

0:15:41 Eli: But motion that it would, it would make me longer than to get, go again, literally when people, I have this happen this year because I have two weddings this summer and both of the weddings are like wear what you're comfortable in and I called both people and I was like do you mean that and they were like no I don't mean that could

0:15:42 Thomas: So that's awesome hey yeah

0:15:57 Tom: Not for you no not yeah so

0:15:58 Thomas: They're like Eli you didn't get this special invitation that we printed that was different it was like color -coded for you human

0:16:04 Eli: All of them needed to put on the invitation except for Eli who we expect to wear a suit that he has worn before yes exactly and

0:16:10 Thomas: Clothes yeah

0:16:13 Tom: Let me give you guys an example so we're going hayley and I are going to a concert on friday so we've got tickets to go see Billy Joel

0:16:19 Eli: She started to get it ready just before this record began

0:16:21 Thomas: Well as long as Tom reminded her that it was the time to go yeah

0:16:21 Tom: You're not wrong though So we

0:16:24 Eli: Huh crazy that it's Friday already that's

0:16:27 Tom: We bought these tickets six or eight weeks ago, and she started planning her outfit the day we bought the tickets. She started planning what she's going to wear. So she already knows what she's going to do. She already knows she's got to wear down to, like, the accessories she's gonna wear for this, because this is a big event. That's the thing. This is a Big Event. If that sort of, like planning work isn't done in advance, because Haley's very image conscious. She wants to make sure that if she's going to go out in the world, she wants to feel for herself like she looks really nice that's really important for her so

0:16:39 Thomas: Well there there you go should take even less time right

0:16:57 Eli: Fair if I had the capability to look as good as Haley looks I

0:17:00 Tom: Same right that guy that's what I'm trying to recognize here is like I

0:17:02 Thomas: Fair oh

0:17:00 Eli: Also might put some time it yeah I'm I'm maxing out at a c -minus

0:17:05 Thomas: I hope people don't take this as like a criticism this is genuinely just like especially eli because I'm with eli I'm like a 20 second get ready but that's more out of the necessity of so much training you know the 10 000 hours thing of being so fucking late that you have to do I can do stuff I can put on clothes in ways you wouldn't even imagine I can and get ready and it's like I'm a magician all of a sudden but Tom I'll let you get back to it but I hope nobody takes that as like a criticism it's just like trying to understand the anyone else works is all yeah

0:17:26 Eli: It's Lovecraftian horror I've see Thomas throw his car keys in the window into the ignition of his car he just like a dart like a dartboard just bullsize it it's what has to happen it's what has happened years of practice she's guys you know the only thing worse than uh patriarchy which I think we can all agree is the creation of all of these problems why it's the auto ads which you've probably heard 17 of at this point we went a little bit long but if you wanted the smooth jazz listening experience that you so deserve as a podcast listener why you can give us as little as a dollar over at patreon.com/dearolddads as well you'll get an extended commercial free version of every single show when tom feels like it as well as monthly bonus episodes we got a hot fresh ama that's

0:17:40 Thomas: That's why I have to be good at darts yeah that'S why oh sometimes eli sends the link at one minute

0:18:25 Eli: Right sometimes I send the link on time and so you know there's ever everyone's at fault for different reasons. I also do nothing for the bonus on this podcast and don't edit the show, so what the fuck am I to? I mean, not that Tom does either, but so, you know. But yeah, you get all that stuff over at patreon.com/dearolddads. Rip into it.

0:18:25 Thomas: After the hour so yeah damn it I was hoping you'd forget that one yeah

0:18:51 Tom: We gotta get t -shirts just dear old dads rip into it

0:18:53 Eli: Rip into it. And it's got that, like, Raptor font. Yeah.

0:18:57 Thomas: It has to be yeah

0:18:57 Eli: Hell

0:18:58 Thomas: Breaking it through the shirt yeah

0:18:59 Tom: It needs to look like it was clawed into the shirt that's only read shirts that are clawed into can

0:19:03 Eli: One of these centuries we're gonna convince Tom to do a live show and you can all get your rip into it shirts on that day yeah

0:19:09 Tom: You imagine the disaster buckle of a dear old dad's live show it's already a ramble like like an on -stage ramble like I've taken one unscripted show live and I I'm not looking to repeat that performance all

0:19:13 Thomas: Be fucking great man I'll do great oh oh don't worry that's just me apparently never being allowed to do a live show by Tom because I don't have of a fucking script oh so does my kind I know but tom does my kind not get to do live shows

0:19:33 Tom: I'm saying I did a bad job what I'm saying is, well, if you're competent at it, it's probably great. If you're me and you just bomb terribly in front of a large crowd.

0:19:44 Thomas: That don't take that one scotland audience to be represented

0:19:49 Eli: No he was talking about australia scotland was all of us together

0:19:51 Tom: So, oh, Scotland was all of us. Australia, Australia was my, yeah, that was, great. That Biggest stage I've ever been on. So that was good.

0:19:57 Eli: I want to put you on stage at madison square garden that's my goal how do we get tom with With Billy Joel and Madison Square Garden.

0:20:05 Tom: Here's the thing though, to be honest, I had a great time and I would do it again. I didn't can give a shit actually

0:20:08 Eli: That was a great, yeah, that was lovely. So the problem was like, like not a lot of people at that, that was a huge Australian conference and just not a Lot of People knew us. And so it was like and now Nishi McNeish and their niche friends. And so most of these very lovely people were like, I don't fucking know this show and they left but we were there also Tom fuck you because I had to follow the educated lady and I know she's not actually the educated lady but I had to follow australian educated lady who escaped a cult and she came off stage and she hugged her lover and she was like you did it you told your story and I was standing there in a wedding dress that I stole from someone's wife and I Was like good speech I'm gonna go out there and do some gay marriage jokes

0:20:49 Thomas: Obscure

0:20:49 Eli: Look

0:20:49 Thomas: Even for me I hope people know what what this is That was like 10 years ago, wasn't it?

0:20:52 Eli: Our aussie listeners get it and they're are like yeah time's

0:20:55 Tom: That was a while ago but yeah all right so let's talk about sad fishing there was an article I think from parents.com I sent you guys um I want to just read very briefly from it to catch the audience up and then I want to chit chat with you guys a little bit about it so sad fishing uh is raising concern particularly among teenagers. The term, which researchers define in the Journal of American College Health in 2021, refers to social media users who exaggerate their emotional state online in order to generate sympathy.

0:20:58 Eli: A flat circle are

0:21:09 Thomas: Catch them up for sure. I just have to point out, though, that this article is of the form, they're calling it sad fishing. You know, that a new trend. Yeah.

0:21:29 Eli: Your kids safe stay tuned

0:21:37 Tom: It a an ominous quote, or a vague post. Journalist Rebecca Reed coined the term in 2019.

0:21:40 Thomas: Come on, dude. I'm sorry. Already, Tom. We had, okay, maybe this was just me and Eli's generation. We were literally called like emo. Like we were the emo generation. We went on, we had fucking, what was that website before Facebook? You'd pick a song, you could have a, you have a sad ass song for your fucking thing. Come on, this isn't a new thing. Anyway, sorry. Hmm

0:21:55 Eli: Oh no

0:21:56 Tom: MySpace, yeah. No, no, no. That's okay. So experts say sad fishing is likely due to the fact that a child or teen is struggling with something and wants to let others know. In these cases, they often don't feel that they have a person they feel comfortable to share their struggles with, so they turn to the social world. So study published in the journal BMC Psychology found that teens who participate in sad fishing, exhibited signs of anxiety and depression, while low social support was a large contributing factor. And the article goes on at length. I don't want to read you an entire article, but I do want to talk about sad fishing because one of the things that the article does say is that these social media posts are largely unsuccessful for teenagers teenagers, in getting them the kind of support and response that they likely are looking for. And I think that anecdotally, I totally believe that. And I know I'm the social media is evil guy. So I want to throw that out there. I do think that social media has a net loss to humanity.

0:23:02 Thomas: How dare these sad depressed kids cry for help that is so stupid of them

0:23:06 Tom: The it doesn't work. If they're crying out for help and they feel like this is the space for them to do it that isn't working it is not giving them oftentimes what they end up receiving instead is ridicule and mockery and so yeah and so like the sad fishing they're not catching what they're looking to find right they're they're going out there into the world and they're creating these posts that are vague and these creating these hosts that are sad they're They're creating this stuff. And rather than actually receiving what it is that they want or need, which is likely something that social media simply can't provide, which is genuine connection and probably therapeutic support, they're getting mocked and they're getting ridiculed. They're getting screenshot. The shit gets passed around. It does seem like the one hand, really understandable, normal kind with social media sort of publicly vent your shit but on the other side for teenagers like we know it doesn't work like seems

0:23:22 Thomas: Is that what that's what's oh shit that sucks yeah

0:24:07 Tom: Like it doesn'T work so it's it's really kind of an interesting article for me about that

0:24:11 Eli: And I think it's because um media is probably the most different product than what you're being sold right are sold that social media is this place where you go on and you say what's on your mind and you're like having a sad day today miss you woofy hope it's fun on the other side of the wearing bow bridge and your aunt is like oh honey feel better like that's the that's outside of the candy wrapper and the inside of the candy wrapper is more ads than the human eye can comprehend and russian spies making your grandma I'm a racist. Nonsense.

0:24:41 Thomas: Ai generated viral content top actor performance movie and then it'll be a video from fucking some godfather one with the write -up that makes that's all of my I don't know what happened to me but that's all of my facebook yep

0:24:58 Eli: And it's just like weird clips from movies and stuff. Yeah. So think part of that reason is that like young people, as much as I think they have a healthier relationship with social media than we do, those who still get sucked into the product, not only like, is are they not getting what they want out of it? I'll go a step further than crazy Tom and say, there's nothing good there.

0:25:18 Tom: I'm right there with you buddy let's link arms my friend yes

0:25:23 Eli: Let's dive into crazy town. Tom, join me over here in crazy town, the Surgent General in the last 75 years has issued warning labels on four products, alcohol, tobacco. There was a general widespread acknowledgement of the COVID-19 virus. And now he is requested to place a warning label on social media websites. Sights. That's

0:25:26 Tom: Buddy yep yep

0:25:46 Thomas: They really do like hey I know you've probably heard of this COVID-19 we're saying it's not great over here like surgeon general

0:25:52 Eli: That's how infrequently the surgeon general comes out in his little fucking minute

0:25:57 Thomas: Two thumbs way down for the COVID-19

0:26:00 Eli: In his little minute man military uniform that makes no fucking sense because that's from the 15th century. And he's like, Hey everybody, I just thought you might like to know that lighting something on fire and then breathing that process and

0:26:11 Thomas: He should have to be half scrubs and a scalpel in one hand and then like the Patton

0:26:18 Eli: Then a gun One causing the wound and the other,

0:26:20 Thomas: He's a surgeon general he's like two face

0:26:23 Eli: Every Surgeon General looks wildly uncomfortable in the little military outfit they put them in. As well they should, because they are not a member of the military. They are a doctor who knew someone in Congress, always. And this guy, it's in the Times, today when we're recording this, a couple weeks ago when you're hearing it, where

0:26:42 Thomas: Literally be a couple days but

0:26:44 Eli: He was just like, sorry to bother you everyone. It's just killing kids at this point. It's like a it's like kid murdering barn like if there were a barn filled with sharp knives That's basically what social media is and they're fucking a lot of them. They're really I can't emphasize I would like to put a sticker and everyone's like fuck you. I've never heard of you I thought you were Anthony Fauci and it's a no he's a different guy. Please if someone Did you I don't know are you Jewish too? I don' really see how that's relevant. No, but I also well then we'll see see

0:27:17 Thomas: It'll yeah oh

0:27:18 Tom: Well and let me let let me just and we'll talk only exclusively on this show about kids because that's where it matters but I would add like I also don't think there's any reason to think that the harms are exclusive to kids I think we just care more about kids in general so

0:27:31 Eli: Like right the same way that like I don't care that the guy standing outside the factory with his eighth cigarette that day he doesn't need the label like he could just fucking have his cigarettes he gets it

0:27:40 Tom: I I just I just don't want there to be a perception out there that like this is only dangerous for kids or the kids are primarily all I go you know kids are really uniquely no it's just like we it's so bad for you like like smoking or alcohol that like like just got to try to not hook them early right like that's the thing because it's really hard to hook people.

0:27:56 Eli: Well and he says if you read the opinion piece he says it's like it's bad for grown -ups too but I mean you're not even gonna listen to me about this so I don' t fucking know I've never honestly there are there are tween suicide notes with more wellbeing in them than this.

0:28:12 Thomas: He's sad you're saying he's sad fishing the Surgeon General's sad fishing it somehow

0:28:14 Eli: He's yeah. He's truly sad. This makes sense as a like Facebook note.

0:28:18 Thomas: The newspaper has like an emo song yeah

0:28:20 Eli: Right. That he that he tags at everybody in and you're like, oh, Jesus, are you shutting down the discord for the United States? I bet they are.

0:28:31 Thomas: Do I okay you crazy boomers go ahead Tom and then I can step in and I

0:28:34 Tom: And I think like what's what's funny about this is that when you read it, it's like another like moral panic about social media. And I totally get that idea. But it's also we already know that we should be worried about cyberbullying. Right. We already knowthat that's a real thing. And there's this like intersection of like on social And sharing your innermost thoughts, which really amounts to creating like a public micro journal, like a Public Micro Multimedia Journal, and then allowing that to intersect with the toxic cyberbullying culture, which we know exists and which we know is pervasive and problematic. And then sort of like shrugging and being like, well, I don't know why that didn't go well. It's like, Well, how the fuck was it ever going to go? Well, it's It's like imagine if somebody read your fucking diary because you made it public and then like it was every bully at every school everywhere always and it never goes away. Like that's the problem here.

0:29:30 Eli: And then for the last 25 years, all the greatest minds that should have been landing us on Mars were using that journal to try to sell you Skittles. That's, that's what happened. We landed a guy on the moon and then we took all our nerds and we were like, make the most powerful algorithms for buying humanly possible. And they were like don't you want us to cure cancer and they were like no skittles ai generated ads for a magic show he won't see or get the fuck out of here and they're like okay if you say so oh

0:29:59 Tom: What? What? So I think it's really interesting that like idea of sad fishing, I and I've talked to the kids about being really real. You will not be surprised, but being really conscious about what they're putting out online for a lot of reasons. Right. Safety reasons for, you know, no,

0:30:23 Thomas: Bet bet That Tom's kids are like, Dad, can I just not think about one thing? Can you ever let me do something and not think about it, please?

0:30:27 Eli: I bet that I bet they I bet they gather privately and they are like guys guys guess what he is afraid of today guess what he's afraid of aislinn you get to go first because you won it last time I will give you a hint it is a snack cake that was available when he was a kid yeah he does think

0:30:45 Tom: OK, I'll stop being worried when I'm wrong. But yeah, like I what I just find it really fascinating, this desire, this like confluence like of desire to reach out and have connection and to confuse real connection interaction with the internet with social media and like is actually does kind of if you look if you read advice blogs on reddit which I've done for like farming for content for talking ship for example one thing I think is fascinating about reddit and I think it's a function of the anonymity um like people will post something and sometimes it'll be like a real like complicated problem it's not like some like little like oh here's a piece of pithy quick advice but you'll read through it and be like holy shit and reddit will a lot of times get it right They'll say something like, hey, this is above Reddit's pay grade. You need to get to a therapist. Reddit does a good job of that sometimes on these advice column areas, like marriage advice and sex advice and all those kinds of places. They'll be like, Hey, this is above the Internet's paygrade. Social media that is not anonymous does a bad job of

0:31:46 Eli: They're like thank you for coming to me president of opinions

0:31:47 Thomas: It's not the anonymity, by the way.

0:31:49 Tom: That. But I think that the anonymity, here's why I think the anonymities a factor. Factor if I'm connected with somebody on social media right I see that they're sad fishing and I recognize even if I don't have that term if I recognize what it is I will feel yeah I probably would actually but like I I would feel a certain sense of obligation to like say something kind or say something supportive or to interact with it in some way and that interaction I think validates and reinforces that behavior in a way that is not only unproductive, but it's counterproductive to actually going to places that provide real help and real support and real connection.

0:32:03 Eli: Unfollow

0:32:30 Tom: That make sense? And that's why the anonymity thing, because if I'm anonymous, I can be like, dude, fucking get help. Right.

0:32:29 Eli: Yes yes

0:32:36 Tom: But if I see like a friend post something and be like they actually want me to support, they want a little hug reaction, you

0:32:36 Eli: Uh

0:32:42 Thomas: No, I'll say get get help to a friend. I mean, OK, I don't know how much this point matters, but I think that has more to do with the fact that Reddits are organized a certain way and you join a subreddit like that for a specific reason. There's also moderation to a degree. And so a lot of the people who have joined that subredtit, they're not seeing, oh, my friend posted something, they're seeing like a whole thing. They're like, well, this person has problems and it's to this level where they need to get help. And it's not like I think That's also a lot Of it like you're joined a focus group, but But I, okay, here's what I want to say. I don't know that like I'm coming out strong that everything you're saying is wrong per se, but I do want to come out strongly with a I don't know opinion about this for a couple reasons. For one, haven't read that's whatever the latest thing you're talking about is. So maybe I've changed my mind. I didn't, did they come out really today as we're talking and say something? Surgeon General thing? Or is that, what

0:33:09 Tom: I think so So, too, I think that that's part of it, too. Yeah, for sure. Think it was yesterday.

0:33:31 Thomas: The yesterday? Okay, I didn'T catch it. I'll catch it, but here's my, here's the other thing, Tom, that I worry, and maybe you can answer this question. Question I don't believe that any of my experience I'll speak for myself I don't believe any of my experience on social media is at all relevant to kids today because they're not on the social media that I'm on they're on other stuff that I don' t do and maybe that's not true of you tom I don't know but all I know is if you mention facebook to anyone younger than like 30 they' re like that stupid site that the old people like you guys are on and so and that's like what I'm on you know and and I'm I'm on Reddit as well, but I don't, I don'T really think that's like what you're talking about per se. So I don't, I don't really know, you know, like I, I think there's definitely some bad stuff going on when it comes to Instagram and body image and that kind of stuff. But I, I don't, what, what are people sad fishing on? Does it talk about that? Like what it? What social media is

0:33:32 Eli: Yeah two days ago something like that that's a good question yeah because the the difference between sad fishing on facebook which is what I see because Cause I'm on there and sad fishing on like tick. Well, tick tock, I think is just like all the worst things about the internet turned up to 11. Right. So it's not sad fishing. It's like pretending you have Tourette's fishing or whatever the fuck the kids are into these days.

0:34:39 Thomas: This? But someone in the Chinese government might be sympathetic to your condition though. Like, hey, you know, I'm just spying on you for the data and all that.

0:34:45 Eli: Xi Jinping. Sad face. So

0:34:50 Thomas: But, like, hey. You should see somebody about this.

0:34:51 Eli: You're going through it. Also buy something with your credit card on the in, in, in app browser. Use your mom's credit card it's for something we're using it for something yeah

0:35:03 Tom: Wrong about this, but I think the apps primarily, the social media apps primarily that I see the teenagers using, like Instagram is huge. Huge, huge, huge.

0:35:12 Thomas: Which I don't understand. But, yeah.

0:35:14 Tom: Yeah. Right, so So Instagram is big. I know a lot of kids use Snapchat. We don't let any of our kids use Snapchat, but I know a lot if kids do use Snapchat

0:35:15 Thomas: Don't get it.

0:35:21 Eli: The child porn app your kids don't you get to use the fucking job the job or no no here's the thing like instagram there's a possibility that it's not for children to send naked pictures of themselves to each other they do they allow it they actively encourage it but snapchat is the the take a naked picture of yourself as a child app. That's what that app is for, right?

0:35:22 Tom: Well, I mean, I feel similarly about Instagram. I'm like, it's like, oh, fuck.

0:35:46 Eli: Anyone who's like, no, I need a way to send secret hideable picture. Why would you need secret hide?

0:35:41 Tom: That's true. Yeah, right. I know it's so

0:35:52 Eli: The best version of that is cheating on your spouse. The best.

0:35:52 Tom: Awful. You're not even remotely

0:35:59 Eli: Because if you're allowed to send other people naked pictures, then that's just your phone. That's just the text messaging service.

0:35:59 Tom: Fucking wrong. Yeah, so I think Instagram is huge. I think TikTok obviously is massive, massive, massive.

0:36:15 Eli: And I'm on the bleeding edge of TikTok, everybody.

0:36:17 Eli: So if you need any knowledge about that,

0:36:19 Tom: And then Snapchat. Which, Snapchat is so funny. You're exactly right. I remember being on Snapchat when it first came out for about seven minutes and being like, oh, this has nothing to do with me. There's no space on here that has any intersection with me possible. This is bonkers

0:36:31 Eli: When they incorporated the snapchat stories which was like the content section of snapchat I have never felt older I shriveled like an apple left in the sun for a thousand days and a thousand nights because it was just some guy making spaghetti on a marble countertop and I was like I don't remember a culture that was relevant to this one and he was like we're gonna gonna put 12 pounds of gold in there and I was like don't do that they really need aid in casa right now I think you should focus on that yeah

0:37:05 Tom: You know you know that's actually a funny that's a funny to say that because it feels this feels like the therapeutic equivalent to slacktivism right like

0:37:17 Thomas: Okay. Hold on let me I meant to say this though yeah what I expected when you said sad fishing which seems to me to be quite a derogatory term I thought you were going to say you don't understand it's the children of rich parents who actually have everything they could possibly want pretending to be sad to get attention and then the article is like yeah so it's kids who are anxious and depressed they have actual anxiety and depression and they're posting things that that are sad. I was like, well, so maybe they're just sad. Like, why is it like, it feels a little like insulting to be like sad fishing. You should just be sad in private child who only knows social media as a way to interact with anyone.

0:37:57 Eli: Of all thomas don't announce my inner thoughts on the air like that that's not kind no but I I agree it's a derogatory term I think the point of the article which because I was going down the same road which is like this is going to turn out to be about how kids emotions aren't valid I thinkthe point ofthearticle and what I I think is interesting is that it's it's not that they're not really sad and it's not that their not worthy of care and help it's that social media doesn't do that yeah

0:38:21 Thomas: I get that. I just feel like the fishing part is maybe a little unnecessary.

0:38:24 Tom: Let me let me offer this too because I I think the article in its definition does make a distinction by saying that, and I think I see this, I do see this, even with adults in addition to kids, is the exaggeration of those feelings in order to get attention. And the article does point that out, that sad fishing as a definition term involves the exaggeración of those feeling.

0:38:37 Thomas: Definitely. Oh, okay.

0:38:38 Eli: I see it with myself right

0:38:50 Thomas: Huh?

0:38:51 Tom: And I do think that there's a really vicious and problematic psychological and emotional feedback loop where if we validate exaggerated feelings, we encourage more of that sort of exaggeration and encouraging that exaggeration in a space that is not therapeutic and encouraging that that exaggeration in a space that cannot functionally help in the meaningful ways that people who are really sad and really anxious like what they need is not an online boop hug like we know we actually know that that stuff has no lasting effect we know that that's actually not an overall good for for us like they yes

0:39:33 Eli: Especially because everyone talks like tumblr came to life in some terrible midnight lightning strike now so no one's just like going through a hard time and it is like sorry friend hope you feel better which is like I guess fine right Right. I hope that helps you. But everyone's like, you know, when I first self -diagnosed with cross anxiety, multiple upside down boobs disease, it's when I realized the toxic capitalist capitalist toxins that were capitalist toxins, toxins, toxic capitalist toxins.

0:40:03 Eli: And, and I'm just like, you don't fucking know this person. Why are you writing a paragraph of advice when they just fucking did a pair of fucking sad face on their Facebook? Why are You writing a Paragraph of advice? Like you're a psychiatrist giving a presentation at a fucking conference.

0:40:03 Tom: Of my of my narcissistic gaslighting that. Yeah. Right.

0:40:23 Eli: Right. I would, extend I the joke to be like, you wouldn't give people medical advice, but they fucking do that too. Right.

0:40:23 Tom: Yeah, yeah, And I think that that's exactly right. And I think also there's a conflation that happens where sort of like the public exposure of feelings is being sort of confused with a private connection. I mean, think about like When you've really needed help or when you've really been upset about something, as a person, is it for you to interact on a private one -to -one level about something that actually has a deep emotional impact on your life versus this sort of public exposure? It's sort of trying to replace quality with quantity and combine that with the sort of exaggerated for effect plus validation feedback loop. Like this is, this is a recipe for sadder people. This is a recipe for more alienation, not connection.

0:41:20 Eli: They provide such different things and we don't often acknowledge that. Right? And like, let me say, cause I don't want to call anyone out here, but myself, I will say no one is more guilty of this. Certainly on this podcast, no one is more guilty of this than me. I was listening to a podcast the other day, uh, and this comedian I really like was talking about how the most toxic people are the ones that are always on a social media break. And I had just been like, Hey everybody, time to go on a social media because I'm just a fucking sack of shit. And here's the thing, Here's right? Why, right. Cause I could say it as one who does it. The reason why is feeling sad about something you see online and going to my wife and being like, God, man, I am so sad about seeing this news thing, man. It just, I, it breaks my heart and I feel feel powerless and helpless and I wish I knew something to do and we talk about a little bit and I'm sort of like okay you know and we offer each other the comfort we can offer each other in person which is not much that's how humans work

0:41:44 Thomas: So true. Oh my God.

0:42:17 Eli: Right oh I'm sorry you feel that way thanks all right well you know cheer up thanks I appreciate it versus the internet wall of sympathy which you can summon from the ether at a moment's noticed having a sad bad day friends with an S and no D, right? And then 11 billion people, right, no matter who you are, and yes, it helps that we are public figures to a certain extent, but no matter who you are, a hundred people will hop on and be like, apostrophe, hug, apostrophe, and that feels good, right. It's the difference. Look, if you're hungry, sitting down and having a meal of steak and potatoes and green peas is one thing, but eating an entire bag of Cool Ranch ranch Doritos just hits different.

0:42:58 Eli: And social media is eating an entire bag of cool ranch Doritos. It is filling a need that the steak and potatoes of human contact doesn't. And we're addicted to it. And it's like, I, about million little pieces, which I know is a bad book because he made up a bunch of stuff. And a lot of the stuff he madeup is wildly racist. And we've got to deal with that in its own way. But the thing that he said is like, that is in that that book that I think really pertains to social media and like be lot of things in life is he talks about how like I had to get real with myself that nothing was ever going to feel as good as heroin felt and that's okay right and I think that's the conversation that needs to be had about social

0:42:59 Thomas: That's fair. I gotta

0:43:39 Eli: Media is like you're heroin rules everybody if I can make one recommend if you learn anything from today's

0:43:40 Thomas: Gotta try heroin.

0:43:46 Tom: That is not the official position of this show.

0:43:47 Thomas: Surgeon General hasn't come out against has he

0:43:48 Eli: Also thomas

0:43:49 Tom: This does not the official position of this program

0:43:51 Eli: In the name of rip into it our new motto uh thomas how do you vote about whether or not daddy issues llc feels about heroin ah

0:43:53 Tom: This cannot be two against one we got

0:44:02 Thomas: I'm I'm agnostic on it yeah I'm sorry I'm abstaining I'm voting for hold on hold on I'm voting for a third party candidate because I don't think either of the candidates are you like I think honestly we need more options this was the thing

0:44:05 Eli: A tie I win

0:44:05 Tom: What an impasse what a goddamn heroin impasse no

0:44:14 Eli: So we are neutral if anyone asks daddy issues lc neutral on heroin that's the second t -shirt you can buy.

0:44:21 Tom: That can't be the thing that we are that

0:44:23 Eli: Dear old dads, neutral on heroin.

0:44:19 Thomas: Neutral I think

0:44:24 Tom: Can t be our position It can't happen to me.

0:44:26 Thomas: So much truth to what you've said eli for sure like That's really interesting. I to do some reading, honestly, because I do feel like the literature has not quite supported the doom and gloom about some of these things that I think Tom and I have disagreed on, but doesn't mean it won't any minute. It you know it doesn't mean like okay they've run this study on this new social media you app or usage and and like truly like it could be that they just have not you the right studies yet or I'm a little like to go all in on the social media is the devil thing but I do I do think just on our level, Eli, a of what you said just there is spot on. I've done a thing where because social media has become so useless because it's all the AI I have a weird ritual I do where I wake I go on Reddit or something and I'm like, okay.

0:45:14 Eli: Already don't believe you.

0:45:17 Thomas: I wake wake up. I'm already late. I go, no, is that a little more realistic? Yeah.

0:45:21 Eli: Ah, Reddit.

0:45:22 Thomas: I cancel something.

0:45:23 Eli: I got to read Reddit so fast right now.

0:45:24 Thomas: Yeah. And, and then I, I opened Facebook out of habit. Like it's an old, like, you know, it's just some old ritual I did back in the day where I opened facebook and it had something that was relevant. So I have this feeling somewhere deep in the recesses of my brain. Oh, facebook, that's a place where I could see something. And then I'm like, Oh no, absolutely. Literally literally nothing there anymore. Like it's

0:45:46 Eli: Like a widow making four eggs instead of two. Just, oh, John.

0:45:51 Thomas: And then I close it and I'm like, that was stupid. And Then I'll look at Reddit and then I'll open a Facebook again and be like, Oh, that's something Facebook is. Nope. Just did that. I just did it. Why did I open it again? There's nothing there. And so I just quit in a, I don't announce I'm on a social media break everybody, but, but

0:46:02 Eli: Because you're not a miserable sack of shit like me. I

0:46:12 Thomas: I just like found myself not really doing it much except for like, at least we We have our podcast Facebook groups that can be really cool. And I do enjoy those. And that's about it.

0:46:23 Eli: Will say because I quit twitter right I actually quit twitter I just deleted my account um it didn't matter and the secret was I realized I didn't miss it at all when I actually did it and that still has not made me quit facebook which is so fucking weird because it's like I'm on I'm one meth and heroin I gave up meth and my teeth grew back and I'm like I don't though maybe it's still nice to do heroin sometimes how else am I gonna find out what my niece is up to oh any other way that doesn't drive you insane and turn you into a mewling golem of the internet nah yeah I want to be very clear because thomas put it very nicely I want to be clear I am not saying anything that I said or say is fact -based right let's be very clear where the opinions are coming from tom is like those people who don't drink soda and they're They're like, you shouldn't drink soda. I read this article and it says soda is bad for you. And like, I don't know. I don'T know if they're right or wrong. Maybe soda is Bad for You. I'm the person who's like on my 600 pound life and

0:46:50 Tom: Hey, fuck you.

0:47:24 Eli: Is explaining to the doctor that you've been on an IV of Mountain Dew Red since 1992. And they're like well you should fucking stop that. That's where I'm at. All right. I'm not studying CITES. I'm being airlifted out of my emotional and psychological hell on a zoo stretcher. Okay you might have a totally healthy relationship with social media you might fucking crush it no illusions great example has a totally unhealthy nor he's like here look at a picture of my cats and I'm like where's what you guys don't understand about yemen no one asked no one fucking at the world's easiest job the nicest most pleasant job for which I am overpaid exponentially and once a day I tune into a pain website and shock myself in the balls like I'm Tom trying to wake up and then I'm like I don't know why it hurts it's

0:47:34 Thomas: Okay. That. Yeah. Yeah yeah and

0:48:18 Tom: Look

0:48:18 Eli: Just the thing that's happened every time since 2015 and

0:48:22 Thomas: No one will post about like he was sad when you know he posts sad stuff like no one would post that stuff in a healthy way that that's what's funny like I think you can I don't want to say this diminishes any of the effects of this stuff on children which very much may be real but like as as adults like trying to figure this stuff out. I think there is a way to use it in a healthy way. It doesn't make it easy for sure, but it is funny that you bring up. No, I never thought about that. Like he does have like the perfect relationship with social media. Now that I think about it.

0:48:50 Eli: I see it and I'm like I should I read books I could talk about the books and I might oh I just finished my book I should go online and then instead I'm like you motherfuckers I donno what happened someone else takes over my my brain and body and horny.

0:49:00 Tom: Well like I do think I I do think though that like we as adults need to remember if we can what it's like to be a teenage person and the the vulnerability like but no like the the the sort of like yeah still yeah it doesn't change but it's still like the emotional vulnerability and the the self -seeking that is a part of that adolescent space and and the outsized influence of our peers, which by this age, we've all outgrown, right? So you have to sort of like put yourself in that same space and remember how influential the reactions of our peers were, how much self -seeking and identity finding we were trying to do and how like big and uncontrolled our emotional responses were when we were preteen and teen people. And that's all, That's all developmentally normal, right? That's all appropriate. And now we've got this insane tool that amplifies all of that in these, I think, and I do think, like these really deeply troublesome and problematic ways. And the sad fishing to me is like really an example of the real danger of kids not doing that self -seeking and not doing that emotional regulation in places that are genuine and authentic and individual and peer -to -peer, but doing it in these sort of like big public spaces where it can be screenshot, it can being mocked, it be belittled, it also be problematically amplified so that the message they get back is, wow, I get a lot of attention when I'm sad. When I'm said, I got a lot this really positive attention. Maybe being sad is part of my my personality, maybe being sad as part of my online personality. And there's a conflation there and a feedback loop there that I think we should be cautious of. And I know the studies aren't out, but I think instinctively, we shouldbe really deeply cautious of that. I remember back to when I was a teenage person, and maybe you guys had really different experiences, but my peers were incredibly important. Their thoughts, their opinions, their validation, whether or not I like I was attractive to girls, whether or not like I was having problems with my friends, like these things were like everything my world revolved around. And at the same time, I'm trying to figure out who I am and I'm try to figure out like what things make me feel good and validated and important as a person. And have a real confluence problem with the with Internet where if we allow kids sort of and we sort of train kids that like putting negative stuff out there gets them this kind of attention that there will be a like I'm not talking about like genuinely sad but there can be an exaggerative effect that then becomes a truth because eventually they realize wow you know this is the kind of person that gets these hugs these online attention this online you know interaction that stuff seems real fucking dangerous to me real don't think it solves the problem of actually sad people and actually anxious people so I think it has like just a net negative that that feels very real to me and like connects with what I know about having experienced growing up does that ring true to you guys at all like in your experience

0:49:16 Thomas: It's you. It's still, still relevant. Yeah.

0:52:16 Tom: Of growing up that

0:52:17 Thomas: Do you ever feel like you got too busy to be fucking insane anymore? Cause I feel like definitely that's a lot of it.

0:52:22 Tom: Seems insane to you honestly that seems insane

0:52:26 Thomas: No, no, no. I'm Matt. That was me agreeing, Tom. That wasn't me saying like the, the

0:52:29 Tom: I thought you were calling me insane again

0:52:31 Thomas: Oh no, no, back in the day, genuinely you more time as well. Like it is also hormonal and all that, but you have more time to care about all that shit and now it's like ah third kid I'm sorry I damn it I want it to be insane but I forgot and I I could try to work it in my schedule

0:52:37 Eli: 2015 me and Thomas. Oh yeah. 2015 Thomas had two podcasts. I had two podcast and we were like, wait a second. Someone's wrong on Twitter. Let's really get in there and fix some bad ideas. We're going to help. And now I'm not I deleted my twitter in the only suicide I'll be brave enough to do thomas thomas is just like block block block black black black oh

0:53:08 Thomas: I tweet something I just retweet stuff occasionally I'm like ah why did I even do that I don't want to delete it you know it's got a lot of I think followers but I don'T know if they're real so So yeah, yeah,

0:53:13 Eli: My god none of it was real it was all it was all a terrible dream it was a terrible here's the thing that's gonna be crazy I feel like I've said this on the show before so I'll try to keep it brief because we gotta wrap up the thing that's going to be crazy is that max will not be insane in this way right and so what I'm gonna have to do the way that like our boomer parents were constantly having to be like no okay so go to your settings swipe over swipe over no it's the one that's the little gear on it okay click that and now click open just click up yes it's there it's absolutely it is 100 there well yeah you do do have to turn the computer on first. Right. So like that, that is what my son is going to have to do for me with emotional regulation in the world of an algorithm. Right? Because he's just going to be like, oh no, dad, you can't scroll six to eight hours a day through an algorithm meant to upset you and make you engage in content.

0:54:11 Thomas: Going to be like,

0:54:14 Eli: I'm going to, but it's there. These are all real people. None of them are real people.

0:54:14 Thomas: But it's there. It is there. No, not real.

0:54:19 Eli: They're all real and they all have real thoughts and hearts and I can reach them. None of that's real. None of that. You're literally looking at an AI generated photo of Britney Spears riding a shark and I want her to be safe. I'm going to tell her me and Britney are friends and I'm gonna tell her Britney be safe girl. I helped daddy helped just now Max daddy was big help to Britney. That's what she needed. Right, gentlemen before we go someone asked me if I had a favorite prog rock band I'd have to say yes do

0:55:00 Thomas: I love it. Love it.

0:55:06 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads .com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILf, tom smith who also wrote and recorded the intro music which is used with his permission this podcast is a production of daddy issues llc copyright 2022 all rights reserved

0:55:48 Tom: Only read shirts that are clawed into can