WTW42: Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, and Tom MacDonald All Walk Into a Grift...

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:42 Thomas: Welcome to Where There's Woke. This is episode 42. your host, Thomas Smith, and that's my host wife.

0:00:49 Lydia: Host wife. Why have we never said that before?

0:00:55 Thomas: How's it going, host wife?

0:00:56 Lydia: Of Thomas. Yeah, you know doing okay because we watched something that made me feel like I was going insane.

0:00:57 Thomas: Yeah, the best.

0:01:08 Lydia: Literally insane.

0:01:09 Thomas: I want to tell you folks something. Here's how good this fucking root material is. This subject matter on which we are basing this episode. I may have noticed that so far this month of Where There's Woke, you know, Lydia has been been handling things along with, of course, Matt, because opening arguments is back and I've been focused on this. Then we get to this video. This video is so good that I was like, I will myself in order to be able to cover this because I can't not. And I started going down the research rabbit hole and I like it's it's so good. God, I fucking love it so much. It's how good I don't have the time. I have borrowed time, like, you know, like the Fed or something. I don't know.

0:01:53 Thomas: Like we're, like we're the United States, uh, you know, just I'm printing time and it doesn't exist. And then somehow later on I'll owe it back, but it's worth it because this is that good. This is, this is the best.

0:01:36 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, and rates are really bad right now.

0:02:08 Lydia: So good that one of my notes, I was looking back at this from when we were watching it the first time. And one of my notes was just in all caps, I am worried about this person.

0:02:19 Thomas: Yeah. Here's the thing. Jordan Peterson, uh I'm sure people have already seen the title.

0:02:24 Lydia: If you couldn't guess. Yeah.

0:02:27 Thomas: Do we, what, where to even start? It's impossible. It's impossible. Okay. I don't know if people know this, but way back in the day, I've kind of mentioned it here and there, but it's hard to keep track of where I've said what and who knows what.

0:02:30 Lydia: I don't know. Sure.

0:02:39 Thomas: But way back In the day I was around for this, for this. I was there 10,000 years ago when Jordan Peterson first cropped up. I know a lot of everybody was, But, but, but a lot of people weren't, you know, it's actually been, God, fucking eight years now. Jesus.

0:02:44 Lydia: Yeah, not in the podcasting space necessarily.

0:02:55 Thomas: It's been eight years, pretty much since, and maybe a little more since he popped up. And he popped Up in the context of being a transphobe. I'm not going to go down that route. But, um. And there were a bunch of people in, listeners of my show, even who swore that this guy was amazing. He's the best. He's a genius. I even, I, I should go look this up. I don't remember where it is. I think it's in my Twitter account. I don't use anymore, but there was a guy who offered to pay me, I don't know, $500 to read Jordan Pearson's book. Do you remember that? Did I tell you about that? I put, I said it somewhere.

0:02:56 Lydia: Yeah.

0:03:25 Lydia: Hey, take him up on it.

0:03:27 Thomas: Yeah. I should Go back now and be like, Hey, he's still in it. I actually thought of that. I was like, maybe I could find this person and see, like, are you still a true believer? Because, again, this was an atheist and it wasn't immediately apparent. People so bad at this. They're so bad it going back and recognizing what they knew at the time.

0:03:33 Lydia: Yeah, mm -hmm.

0:03:43 Thomas: You, I've done the same thing with Sam Harris. I know I mentioned that a lot, but like, I thought I saw through Sam Harris earlier than I did. But then I go back and I look at the years and I'm like, oh, shit, I was still into Sam Harris, maybe, uh, not like, you know, not like yesterday, obviously, but it was like a year later than I thought, you know, I was like, I was giving myself a little more. You go back and rewrite your history a little bit and you kind of rewrite, like, okay, when I first was suspicious, then that's when you rewrite yourself to be like, yeah, I saw through the whole thing, but it's like, you know, so, um, think that happens with Jordan Peterson, because at first people didn't know he was a religious nut, like, wasn't much known about him.

What You know, obviously information was available, but in terms of just like what people were seeing, info, what people were getting about Jordan Peterson, my audience at the time, which is, you know, it was mainly atheists, mostly people on the left, but as we saw, there was a significant group of atheists who were kind of, I won't say they were right-wingers per se, they might've turned out to be, but many of them were just anti, what we would have called at the same time, anti-pc or anti-regressive left, was was around that time, it wasn't called woke yet, um, and they loved this guy's thing, they loved that Jordan Peterson was out there, you, truth to power, which

0:03:59 Lydia: Right, right. Yeah mm -hm.

0:04:56 Thomas: They really think it's that, like, they've convinced themselves that the powerful are trans people who just want you to use their pronouns and the weakling is is this very wealthy professor, you, like, that's that's the underdog, and then the, the real just punching up is just him sticking it to the trans people. I, with the Ricky Gervais thing last month, there's a bit of a theme there. Um, so anyway, people, Peterson is a classic, classic guru. He's a classic cult leader. Like, he really is. He says incredibly mundane things, but with, he has a real talent for language. Like, he really does. He can generate massive amounts of language very quickly, and he makes excellent use of religious, you Yeah, exactly.

And like classical literature allusions that it sounds really impressive, you and he's very good at that. Like he generates so much language so quickly I think it overwhelms people and it makes a certain percentage of people think, well, he must be a genius. Like if he's, if he saying things that I can't keep up with, like that means he's super smart. Right. But if all he's doing is fundamentally just giving you a pretty simple message, then it's not, you doesn't always mean it's bad. Just Like just doesn't necessarily mean he's a genius. You know, he might have a rhetorical gift, but it doesn't mean the underlying message is right. Like that's the, the

0:05:17 Lydia: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

0:05:41 Lydia: Imagery and yeah.

0:06:18 Lydia: Hmm.

0:06:19 Thomas: Overarching theme of, of what I wanted to cover in this. That's like the thing to keep an eye on. And so that guy was like, yeah, if you read his book, I'm telling you, he's a genius, and I think, I believe this person really believed that. They, they were willing, they were like, how much money? I'll pay you so much money to read this book, and I was like, I don't, I am not doing that. I'm not, first of all, it's a book. I am not reading a book. Secondly, I, there's no way, like, I know this guy, it's, he's not some hidden genius that, and I have consumed a lot of the Keith Ranieri cult stuff, and it's the, the same thing, I think it's like that kind of cult leader where no, but

0:06:46 Lydia: Yeah, J .B .P. does not play volleyball, though. I can look at him right now and I can tell.

0:06:55 Thomas: Part of the effectiveness of cult leaders like that is, like, if they can speak in a way that's hard to understand, it just gives their followers the license to be like, this is so genius. And it's easy to be, like, hey, if you don't get it, that's because you're missing something. That's, you know, and it's, like, perpetuates itself because all of the people following him are fully incentivized, the longer it goes on, to convince themselves and to convince each other, like, yeah, this guy, whoa, he's a genius. Everything he says is a genius. And when, when someone is very rhetorically gifted and speaks in an incredibly obtuse way, you know, in a very authoritative way, if you notice how he speaks, it's incredibly authoritative. Find it grating as hell because, like, personally, I think I see through it pretty easily.

I always have. I never believed him for a second. But, like, it's people who are susceptible to it, or to people who agree with him, it comes across as like this guy authoritatively knows what he's talking about. And there's a confidence there. Ooh, there's talking about authoritarianism. There's a bit of a nexus there. Ah, nexus, isn't that the name of the other? No, what was it? Nexium?

0:07:12 Lydia: Yeah?

0:08:07 Lydia: NXIVM? Mm

0:08:08 Thomas: Okay. It's all connected. See, I'm doing the Jordan Peterson thing. It has brilliant connections linguistically that actually don't mean anything. No, but the authoritarianism thing actually does mean something because specifically as we're going to talk about, um, are correlations with authoritarianism um. Personality traits and right-wing politics and all that. And they, types of people are very attracted to somebody like this who speaks very authoritatively, um... Incredibly morally black and white.

0:08:08 Lydia: Hmm? Yeah.

0:08:35 Lydia: Yeah, it feels, feels like a sermon, right? Like you feel like by his words

0:08:39 Thomas: Is a he's A Preacher. I was gonna make that comparison too, it's totally true. He's a preacher, he's, he's more unpleasant than any preacher I ever had, but I also was in the kind of the loosey-goosey Christian churches. I wasn't in like fire and brimstone ones, so your mileage may vary there. I'm sure people who had those like awful preachers who were just about you going to hell and stuff, but like he's is very much a preacher.

0:08:40 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I Like to go to Andrew Scott's practices from Fleabag Yeah.

0:09:04 Thomas: Fleabag season two, timely.

0:09:06 Lydia: Hot Priest.

0:09:06 Thomas: That's, yeah.

0:09:07 Lydia: Andrew Scott's always timely, please.

0:09:10 Thomas: Raised without religion. So that's the closest thing in her brain that she could grasp onto that was like, I know religion. It's hot priest from Fleabug season two.

0:09:13 Lydia: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. That's what everyone is talking about when they talk about religion, right?

0:09:21 Thomas: You know, that's it would be a better world, hun, if everyone was like that. All this was to say that, like, is an interesting show for us to do, Where There's Woke, because a lot of these shows have a lot of success being very dedicated to, like one person, you Jones, Tucker Carlson. And they evolve. They do other stuff like these shows. It's not to at all denigrate the shows, but I have really hard time with anything repetitive or monotonous. So what I tend to do is be like, oh, Jordan Peterson, he's an idiot. I wrote him off eight years ago. I never listened to him again. But there's a trade -off because I'm missing a goldmine.

0:09:57 Lydia: Yeah.

0:09:58 Thomas: And part of me when I watched this video, I was like, oh, I should have paid attention to him more. This show is a little bit about finding that trade -offs because it's all good fun. I think my approach of like, oh, that person sucks, don't need to listen to them forever. I actually don't Think that's the best approach because you could be missing good stuff too. Like I could just be wrong about someone. Not wrong about Jordan Peterson, but you know, you never know.

And so I, watching this video, I was like, oh, what have I missed? And all that is to say, I don't know if the audience will know way more about Jordan Peters than I do at this point, if they've like paid closer attention. I dug up some very interesting things, but I hope they're not old news. They weren't old news to me. And I'll just have to assume there's enough people listening listening to whom they won't be old news.

But if there's some other podcast people listen to, that's like Jordan Peterson all the time, every single video breakdown of that, I worry that like, oh, okay, this is going to be old new to them. But who knows?

0:10:50 Lydia: It won't be to me. So lay it on me.

0:10:51 Thomas: Yep. I podcast to an audience of one, baby. How how did мы come across this? Do you remember?

0:10:55 Lydia: I On this via, was either my Google alert that I have every day for this kind of stuff, or Reddit. It might have been Reddit, yeah.

0:11:06 Thomas: Weird. Well, anyway, I don't remember. However it happened, we started watching this video. We referenced in a previous episode in last month's news roundup, talked about last minute. It was a last minute edition by me. The best rap song ever made, Facts, by Tom McDonald Donald and Ben Shapiro. Um, had a John Ralphio-esque, uh, to it that I particularly enjoyed. And that rap song is the funniest thing ever. It's, it's so stupid, but it's also, honestly, it's kind of business genius because it's, everybody wants to laugh at it. Um.

0:11:07 Lydia: Yeah. Yep.

0:11:26 Lydia: Like to say his And They're just getting views. Yeah.

0:11:43 Thomas: 'S very smart. Nothing. Uh, else, Ben Shapiro is smart about being an online personality. I think he's I think he knows how to get attention, and I'm sad to report that in my research I've discovered I think she's a little more self -aware than I would have hoped. You know, he actually knows what he's doing with a lot of this. It doesn't mean don't confuse that with him not believing what he says. I actually think he believes what he said pretty much, but I think you also like all the clips. I'm probably not going to go into it, so I'll just say it now. You You know, all the times where he's like reading the rap lyrics, you know, and like, you know, WAP and all those. And when I came across those, it's it's always someone else quoting it and being like, look at this fucking dork reading these rap lyrics. But I think he knows that that's

0:11:43 Lydia: Yeah. That

0:12:28 Thomas: What it is. Like, I think.

0:12:29 Lydia: It's going to be used for that. Mm

0:12:29 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. I saw a video of him talking about it and I got I got the indication that it's like, OK, well, I would rather he not be self -aware in that way. But I Think I think He is. I think he knows that, yeah, he just wants to get views. He knows how to get reviews. He knows that to get attention.

0:12:30 Lydia: -hmm. Yeah.

0:12:44 Thomas: And yeah, it, he is good at that. So I think this rap song is the stupidest fucking idiot thing I've ever heard of. And it's hilarious and it's a self parody, but it's also very smart business -wise and it did very well. And that was that we were kind of like, oh, it's not worth doing more on that song, even though it's God, it'S so bad. Sad until we saw this video, which you, I guess, found. I don't know. Now I have no fucking idea, but one of us found, probably

0:12:38 Lydia: It's just calculated. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was me.

0:13:12 Thomas: You. And it's okay. You found, if you're confident, then I believe you. Is Jordan Peterson, his YouTube channel. He's got 7.75 million subscribers, pretty healthy. It's a psychological breakdown of a rap song. And he's obviously talking about this rap song and all. Why would you do that in the title? Why don't why don't you just title it Facts to try to get that SEO? Whatever.

0:13:12 Lydia: Crazy.

0:13:32 Lydia: Yeah.

0:13:33 Thomas: Who knows? Some reason, he didn't. But he it's 51 minutes. It's a psychological breakdown, according to him, of that Ben Shapiro, Tom McDonald song. For some reason we started watching it and it's classic. Instant It's the best. And so I'm still in the fucking preamble here because I started watching it. And then that, that was when we were like, okay, we could do this, for WTW. And then the more I watched it, the more, I was like, I want to, the first of all, this is my new religion. This is the best thing ever in an ironic way. Yeah, no, like, you know, I, I appreciate how fucking insane this guy is. Behold. Like he's so good at his shtick. I love a good shtik, you now. I love, I love good culty shtick. You know, I appreciate a good cult. Jordan B. Peterson is absolutely a cult leader. Uh, he just doesn't have like a physical cult. I think if he did, you we would see the documentary where they all killed themselves or fucked

0:13:47 Lydia: So Bad.

0:13:59 Lydia: It's working would be covering

0:14:26 Thomas: Each other or something. They'd be just doing something. Something, but because it's an online cult, somehow, know, those can go on a while. I think we'll see. Anyway, I go into this video. Start researching stuff. I so much about Tom McDonald and Ben Shapiro. And then I get one minute into this fucking Jordan Peterson video. And he's said so many things that I have to fact check and then lead to other things that like, that's going to be a separate thing. Then I have another secret bonus thing planned for Ben Shapiro that is my new favorite thing ever. I'm delighted by this.

0:14:26 Lydia: It. Yeah. For sure.

0:14:55 Lydia: .com slash where there's book okay

0:14:57 Thomas: Don't worry. I'll give you more info later. So this video is the subject of the episode, but we're probably going to get all of one minute into it, and then we'll have to transition to something. But before we get into that, let's talk about the other characters here, because I didn't know anything about Tom McDonald. Did you know know anything about Tom McDonald?

0:15:11 Lydia: Not. Really?

0:15:15 Thomas: Okay.

0:15:15 Lydia: No. Oh.

0:15:16 Thomas: Um, assumed that maybe he was like, you, a normal rapper, and then didn't find success, and then, like anti -woke, that's what I assume, because that's usually what what it is, but he's been anti-woke rap from day one. Um, was apparently he tried to be a professional wrestler at some point, didn't make it. This is just like one line is Wikipedia that I found interesting, but no, like his rap early on, it's incredibly, uh, anti-woke, which, um, was again, not exactly what I was expecting. I, think he has absorbed, uh, a lot of these talking points and believes them. Um, I wanted to go through some, uh, some hits. It's not as though this is his first anti-work by Longshot.

0:15:23 Lydia: And then went like anti -woke. Yeah, yeah. Why?

0:15:43 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah, okay.

0:15:54 Thomas: Here's one of his early ones. Is six years ago. 2018, songs are very formulaic music wise, which is everyone's are. I don't, it's not really a knock on him, per, I only say that because we can pretty much play every video until the chorus and hear the chorus. And then that's enough. You know, like, like, you'll see what I mean. One's called White Boy. I should describe the scene. He's in a classroom taught by a black man, sort of adult education class. I don't know what it would be. But that's the setting, you. So picture, this is 2018. So this, I imagine, is like peak discourse on like colleges classrooms or something, or something. And is just classic, nobody colon blank, and then Tom McDonald, how

0:15:58 Lydia: Okay. Yeah. Oh.

0:16:44 Clip: And I never burned a closet, hit my face to the hood, You can't just label me racist, cause I'm related to people who did some terrible shit way back before I was alive, My parents brought me up to treat everyone as an equal, I refuse to feel ashamed cause of my pretty blue eyes, I'm a Nazi, to white supremacy, Anyone who labels me, I'm the genetics, They hate me for caucasians, it's so pathetic, Don't be proud that you're black, but don't hate me, for some credit, I am not the white devil, Neo -Nazi cop trying to pull the trigger You can call me what you want, but I'd still never say White race as a whole ain't the enemy This race is white people, but we're far from that collectively Yeah, yeah, I'm dumb, so I hate

0:16:46 Lydia: My god. He's

0:17:03 Thomas: Don't know. Why it's censored. Actually, almost Where does this come from? You the amount of victim narrative, like that he has the victim complex over being white. This is his first album that I, I know, see in his Wiki. I mean, he had had like some like mixed tapes or some crap or whatever. I don't know how anything works, as again it wasn't as though he was like a normal mainstream guy and then was like, you know, let me try a different thing. And here's the other thing that I hate, I, that I have to say right now, no, I uh, particularly been a fan of rap, I don't really know anything about it, um, don't have an opinion on it, because I've just, it's not music that I care about, so I'm not saying it's good or bad. I, I don't, don't care, t know, he' pretty good musically. I have no fucking idea about rap or nothing about that.

I' m making no opinion on his rapping, per se. But, like musically and production wise, he does a really good job of, like writing just enough, like catchy melody for each chorus and making interesting sounds. It's actually frustrating to admit, but he is actually good at it. Like another one. I don't know if you'll notice a theme, but this one is called Straight White Male.

0:18:05 Lydia: So Yeah. Oh, okay.

0:18:48 Thomas: Is from, looks it like the next album. So we're in, we're in 2019 territory here. In this one, he's in like an orange jumpsuit and a witness box or something. Like he's being, again, talking about the persecution complex, complex, it's called Straight White Male, and he's already appearing like he's under arrest for being a straight white, like that's literally the imagery we're going with, like is in an orange jumpsuit, he's on trial for being a straight-white male, let's listen through to this chorus.

0:19:04 Lydia: Yeah. Interesting.

0:19:15 Clip: Myself I'm mad, my skin's so pale Got white privilege, so why can't I fail? The world told me I'm evil, so I break a lot, but escape the jail My diet only mayonnaise acts as I used to ran Oh, I am bad as hell I'm not a Nazi, I don't like people like Davis By 10, I thought I was the racist I like Hispanics and Negroes and Natives and last hours I've got the fly, hours as I make I know y'all trippin', I'll get you some fish, Y'all have been making me villainous, I'm not the one setting fire to your villages, I'm the man that's raping and pillaging, I do not care if my neighbors are immigrants, Maybe y 'alls whites look the same and you think that I'm somebody else, Oh school, honestly I think that everyone looks alike if they ain't writing, I'm sorry it's true You love me, knows,

0:20:21 Thomas: Oh,

0:20:22 Lydia: There are elements in there I definitely hear like Eminem a little bit, you know, just some rap commentary.

0:20:28 Thomas: He is a big fan of Eminem. Oh, that's funny, yeah.

0:20:29 Lydia: Yeah. I can like hear some of that in there, um, then honestly like some of the, I heard ironically, maybe like a little Childish Gambino. Yeah.

0:20:38 Thomas: There's a little bit of it where you're like, if it was ironic, and that's why again Facts is actually that way too, where like if someone did it as a joke it's hilarious, like if that if that was like, oh, I'm gonna make fun of the concept of wing music and rat, it'd be hilarious. Yeah.

0:20:49 Lydia: Again It's it's a John Roffio thing, right, like if it were on an episode of Parks and Rec, you like Mouse Rat, right, like we'd be like oh my god this is amazing and let's listen to it because it's so stupid.

0:20:59 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, there are people, including by the way the actor, uh, there's a black actor that was the teacher in the last video and is also in this one somewhere, that a publication that interviewed him was like, hey, why are you doing these videos?

0:21:16 Lydia: Why do you do this? Yeah.

0:21:18 Thomas: And I swear this is a coping mechanism for so many people. He was like yeah, he doesn't really believe it. He's not really racist. I think he just likes to, you know, get a rise out of everyone.

0:21:22 Lydia: Oh. No.

0:21:28 Thomas: I'm so sick of that fucking point of view. It doesn't, I feel like we come across this from all sides all the time. Like on the the right believe that no one is, believes what they're saying on the right. And people on the left believes that noone believes what their saying on them on the, right. It's, I don't know why. Like, I think it's like on a version of it. I'll say that is trying to still like some. Though they say right wing stuff. So there's a version that's like, yeah, he doesn't really believe that stuff. He's trees being funny.

0:21:34 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:21:57 Thomas: You you know, basically everybody. It's like, no, he doesn't, he doesn't really believe that stuff.

0:21:57 Lydia: It's meant to be, be provocative, right, it's It's meant to get us thinking. Yeah.

0:22:04 Thomas: Yeah. Then for some reason there's, Eli and is a huge proponent of this point of view. My I, co-host dad on Dear Old Dads and his other shows he loves to say that, for legal reasons I can't say that. He loves to saying that like on the right, like these personalities don't believe what they're saying and he probably, I think he has some personal experience that tells him that. And I think he's probably accurate in that judgment. He like met somebody and it was clear they didn't believe what they were saying. He's told the story somewhere. Major personality. He doesn't say who, but anyway.

0:22:13 Lydia: Can say boyfriend. It's fine.

0:22:29 Lydia: Right. Right.

0:22:39 Thomas: I just hate living like that. Like maybe naive, because but I always say what I mean all the time, I can't imagine other people not doing that. It just seems like like, how would you live like that? It just seems horrible. Like, I don't know. So maybe I probably overcorrect the other way where I think everyone's telling their truth all the time.

0:22:44 Lydia: Hmm.

0:22:56 Lydia: But honestly, but even if that were true, that they don't mean what they say, like, I don't know that that helps anything. Like, they're still willing to say these horrible things. In some ways, it's worse.

0:23:02 Thomas: Oh no, it doesn't. And that's the next point to get to, which is it really doesn't matter. Like the fact that it's like, oh, you don't understand Tom McDonald. He doesn't really, he's not really a racist. And I feel for that black actor who's like, "Hey, man, I'm an actor, you're trying to get paid to act." It's like, all right, I guess, tell yourself the story you need to tell yourself to feel good about it, you know, um, Tom, he, McDonald is pretty fucking consistent from day one. He has this complex about him. He's probably absorbed so much right-wing bullshit that, like, he thinks white men are like this persecuted group. There's nothing more consistent in the fucking earth than that message from this guy's music. Like, it's everywhere. So at what point does it matter if he doesn't truly believe that or something? Like, I can't distinguish that. So what does it mater? Like, just constantly putting out that message, and everyone in the comments is like, "God, totally, totally. Yes, yes, yes."

0:23:10 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. It's a job.

0:23:35 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:23:58 Thomas: Love it. Love it. Yeah. 28,000 comments on this particular video. Straight white male. Million views reviews four years ago. Yeah. Very popular stuff right wing sphere. So I don't care whether he believes it or not. Here's a weird one. Is actually one song that I came across. I don'T know if there are more, I haven't gone through every one of his songs, but There's one that I came across that doesn't seem to be right wing. Really weird, it's like actually weirdly like it might be good. I don't know, like, okay, just listen to this.

I has 43 million views want you to forget everything you know about this, like, do your best right now. Now, everybody listening, forget who I'm talking about. Pretend I'm just telling you about some random new artist. Well, I was four years old, but whatever. Some random new-ish artist, and they have a song. Forget everything you know. I'm serious. Like, I'm bad with rap, so I can't judge what's good or bad rap. But this is mostly melodic, so it's not really rap, I don't think, for most of it. There's some weird rap parts, but we'll probably not get that far in the song. But

0:24:05 Lydia: Oh my God. Okay.

0:24:28 Lydia: You're struggling here. Oh my God.

0:25:01 Clip: Bad news, I've been rollin' with some bad news Bad dudes, I been tryna get back to, back to I'm just doin' what I have to, I have too I said, mama, I got bad news Bad moods every day Bad news Tattoos on my face Sad dude, with a head full of rain I just wanna make it rain Mama, I will be okay Mistake right now, yeah I just need a cake right now I please right now, I'm so tired of flexing I got a minor confession, like I might die from depression Like whoa, I look good on the gram But you know anyone can, I'll keep it a grand Mama, I got bad boy moves I've been

0:25:53 Thomas: This is a good song I'm sorry it's a good song. I don't know what to tell you, people. I didn't know any of this about any of him it's good song here

0:25:53 Lydia: It's really good. The rest of it. Just kidding.

0:26:01 Clip: Talking, trying to get to I'm just doing what's easy

0:26:05 Thomas: I am in the, like, I'm doing this research. I've got, this is the, like, the fourth one I've gone through in my list, like, "Oh, I'll go through, get the examples of the videos," and what I was doing is kind of going through chronologically a little bit, and then I was like, "Oh, maybe I should just check what his most popular one was." And so this is his most, most popular, 43 million views it is yeah Um, it's older, but it's not like his first thing, so it's like his third album maybe or something, and it also seems to be a collaboration with people I have no idea about. Uh, it says Tom McDonald featuring, and, know, this fucking shit, where I'm so old, God, I'm sold, I don't understand music now, I'm sorry All right. Tom McDonald and Mad Child featuring Nova Rockefeller.

0:26:13 Lydia: Oh that that's his most popular one. That's interesting.

0:26:39 Lydia: Interesting. Know any of those people?

0:26:45 Thomas: Wait, I think Nova is his girlfriend. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. No, I've come across that. Nova is his partner. I don't know if they're married or not, but she does all the videos.

0:26:45 Lydia: Oh. Okay. Oh. That's cool.

0:26:55 Thomas: Is cool until you remember that every single one except this one is like Nazi propaganda. So, you know, but this one is good. And then what's funny is what happens is whoever these other people are, I guess it must be Mad Child, he starts rapping, and he has like the weirdest fucking voice ever, so it turns into, I don't, I don't know what that guy's deal is, but it's it turns a little weird.

But the point is, here I am, I'm watching this right wing garbage monster just, oh, this, every single video, so dumb, oh, I'm a white male and whatever, and then this song starts playing. I hit play on this video, and I'm 20 seconds in, I'm like, am I, am I feeling emotional about this, like, I was like, this isn't even a genre of music I like, but like, it's, this is, it's a good song, man, like, it's actually, if, if this were all he had done and I didn't know anything else about him, it's like genuinely a moving song because he's talking about like depression, and he's talking about, he's talkin' about a lot of serious stuff, and, and, you know know, what actually is a little bit weirdly nice to see is every single comment on this one is all people genuinely enjoying the song. It's

0:27:32 Lydia: Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Oh.

0:28:00 Lydia: That's nice, yeah.

0:28:00 Thomas: Yeah it's interesting, there's nobody who's like, "Hell, rather see your Nazi shit." There's just a whole bunch of people being like, "Man is amazing, amazing," uh

0:28:00 Lydia: Yeah. Like "This one really spoke to me" kind of of thing, yeah.

0:28:10 Thomas: There's so much like, "Oh, my, you, my son committed suicide this year, and I've" connected to the, like, it's, it's, what the fuck is happening, I don't know it's like, just, do this, man, like, just doing this stuff, that's cool, it yeah, I mean, it's, and maybe it's the kind of thing where, he don', I, t know if it's because of the, the, I don't, don't know if the other person's popular. I don't fucking know anything at all now. Cause again, I'm a hundred years old. So then after that, I, I kept going down the list and just to, just to cleanse our palate here, this one's called fake woke.

0:28:16 Lydia: Man. Who is this guy it's the most popular anyway, yeah. Yeah.

0:28:43 Lydia: Of Course.

0:28:44 Clip: I'm the ones with a lemon car, GB is the role model for girls, there's rappers pushing Xanax at the top of the billboard, but if I mention race in a song, I don't care, I'm scared I'll get killed for it, it's backwards, it's getting exponentially dumb, it's more difficult to get a job than purchase a

0:29:00 Thomas: Can I just say he does this in a number of songs where again, he's the right wing rapper, and he's like, "Yeah, easier to get," maybe it's just Canadian coming through or it's like, it's, it's harder, easier to get a job than it is to purchase a gun, and you're like, "Wait, yeah," um, I agree with that point, what are you talking, do you think that's, you, it's the right wing point, like, that's that's a completely left wing take, yeah not only do people on the left want people to have like jobs, but they also don't want guns.

0:29:01 Lydia: Oh. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

0:29:20 Lydia: You're right, let's fix it Yeah.

0:29:29 Thomas: So that's like a double lefty take, but it's in all, he says, he makes that point a number of times in different fucking -wing Nazi propaganda videos.

0:29:37 Thomas: I know, I really think that could be what it is.

0:29:36 Lydia: Well Is Canadian, so Yeah.

0:29:46 Thomas: Well, you're not American. That's interesting. Yeah, that one's kind of boring. Here's the, okay, last one. And this one features the, an argument so stupid, I had to write a note about it. Like I was just like, all right, I'll do one more just to kind of take a survey of this music. One's called people. So stupid. Oh boy. Here we go.

0:29:47 Lydia: Yeah. What Yeah.

0:30:13 Thomas: You go.

0:30:12 Clip: Score Every dude who touched a boob will run

0:30:14 Thomas: Can't get a doobie on a plane. Well, yeah, I mean, it's a plane you don't want to. That what you said?

0:30:18 Lydia: You're not gonna be a lot of smoke on it anyway.

0:30:20 Thomas: Yeah. Why would you like that? Is that your talking point? You think, oh, is it that you can't bring what like you transport one, but specifically a dooby though? Yeah.

0:30:20 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, travel with with marijuana, you know, who won't let you travel with marijuana, conservatives. So there you go, yeah.

0:30:31 Thomas: Exactly. But Also, um, gun message again, the uzi in schools and it's like, all right, man, who's your audience, okay, this image right now is it's a fake news broadcast bullshit thing, uh, and it says, man crucified for having opinion, and He is standing like front of a cross, like, like he's being crucified.

0:30:43 Clip: Defensive, we're all racist, and we're sexist We all grow up offended

0:30:59 Thomas: Like the persecution complex is insane. Like it is, it is so fucking crazy.

0:30:35 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. -huh. Okay. Yeah, you go.

0:31:08 Clip: Now being fat is beautiful? Name a thing that you can't do? Jumping jacks, run a mile, live past 42? Man, it used to be cooler to slip a bird through the system. And now it's trendy to be triggered and pretend you're a victim. It's my race, it's my weight, it' because I'm a Christian. I hate the haters, and it's anyone who has an opinion. And everybody angry if you say white. K, fine, pass me the brush and I'll paint my face to the shades right. Let's talk about abortion, sorry, tell me how this works. Bacteria is life on Mars, but a heartbeat isn't life on earth. Weird.

0:31:39 Thomas: I'm sorry. Bacteria is life on Mars, but a heartbeat isn't life on earth. Nobody says that a isn't life. No one says that, you know, where bacteria is also life on earth. Like what's the Mars part. Why is that? Like, he thinks he has this gotcha. I'm sorry, if your song is called "People So Stupid," you have good gotchas, you can't just be like the worst arguer in the world, do you care about killing bacteria? No, your but bacteria, yeah that is that is life a fetus also life, It's just not a person yet, in my opinion. And also, there's a million other philosophical concerns. There, bodily autonomy matters, um, the worst fucking argument ever, and yeah well

0:32:01 Lydia: Yeah. You use Lysol wipes? Do you wash your hands? Yeah. Yeah.

0:32:20 Lydia: Unless Mars is also life and the bacteria has taken over the planet, the life planet.

0:32:26 Thomas: But even so I would say Mars has a right to planetary autonomy. Mars can, can get rid of that bacteria, but like, I know this might sound like quibbling, but then just listen to it, come into the chorus here, like you can't make that argument and then go, "Oh, you're so stupid, literally everyone else on earth but me, you're so dumb." Yeah.

0:32:30 Lydia: It. Yeah. Okay. That chorus by itself, I could picture myself like blasting that in my car and having the time of my life and thinking it was the best.

0:33:02 Thomas: Again if this was parody. If this was if this was Lonely Island, we're in, we're a hundred percent in, just fucking guy, so I, that's Tom McDonald. Then I start to do the Ben Shapuro part of this where I'm like, "All right, I've, I" to talk about those Tom McDonald songs because, Jesus Christ, what a victim. I was like, all right, how, how does one say about Ben Shapiro that hasn't already been said? Like, everything's been said, you know, I mean, the, the obvious points for this one are everywhere, where he said rap music is, isn't music, and if you think it is, you're stupid. Um, here's the thing to say, recognize a lot of my former self in Ben Shapiro, which is the worst thing I've ever

0:33:09 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Too bad. Too God.

0:33:44 Thomas: Said. Yeah, no, but it's true. Like correlation between going after rap music as not music and being a conservative, who's also probably a little bit racist, at least that's real. And I feel like that was me when I was a kid, you know, that music was equivalent to black people. And so I think it was more than a little problematic to just, that's a type of music that I hate. Now here's the thing, I grew to like rap music, but I realized that my opinion on it doesn't matter, so that's why I've tried to present it in a way of like, I don't have an opinion on this because I just, I grew up not listening to it. I don't claim to understand what's good or not about it, so I, I hope that that comes across in the way that I intend, which is, know, I I'm not going to pretend that I like it or understand it because I don't, like I just don't, but my, my opinion doesn't matter. Like it's, if people

0:33:54 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Yeah, it

0:34:29 Thomas: Like it, it's good. Yeah.

0:34:29 Lydia: Is. Yeah, yeah. It's not for you, then. Yeah.

0:34:31 Thomas: Yeah. It's not for me. Plenty of music that's not voor me. Country music is not voor mi, but I'm happy to say it sucks. Like, cause I understand country music. I understand how bad it is. Fully understand it. It sucks.

0:34:31 Lydia: Mm -mm. Yeah.

0:34:43 Thomas: Modern country anyway, yeah, I hope that that comes across. And I would say that Ben Shapiro is a big reason that I, I don't know how, again, this will be one of those things where I don't know if I'll remember when this change came. Maybe it'll be more recently than I would hope to admit, but like seeing Ben Shapiro be like, you 17 year old me, which indictment of Ben Shapira. I think he really is 17 year old. A lot of conservatives, you know, like he's a 17 year old dude in a lot of sense.

0:35:07 Lydia: His voice, too, right? It's like a 17 -year -old's voice.

0:35:08 Thomas: Yeah. But seeing him do this shtick of like, oh, it's not music. It's not real music. I'm like, Oh God, was that what I sounded like? Oh fuck. Oh God. That's so racist. Just, why didn't I know it back then? That was really bad. that'S something I did want to kind of admit, you when seeing Ben Shapiro talk about rap, it's that, yeah, that big reason why I, tried you to make that change in my life. And then, okay, here's what I'm going to do. Just going to tease for you what's going to be the bonus thing. It's the, it's, it'S the best. It's the best! Don't know when this will be out. The bonus thing will probably be like third in the order here. We'll see. Let me let Jordan Peterson set up his little video. And, uh, I think that'll, that'll me into what I was gonna say not

0:35:16 Lydia: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think

0:35:50 Clip: Everybody, everybody, so as you may or may not know, although most people know if they're maybe awake, um, Bench Beer and time to go have the number one song in the world at the moment and it's very comical because it's a rap song and just the idea of Bench Beer being rap, hip-hop is comical at

0:36:01 Thomas: True by the way that was never true I also

0:36:06 Lydia: Hip hop.

0:36:07 Thomas: It's so funny, hip-hop, um, it's the best. This guy, okay, I, I wasn't ready to get into this video, but see, this is why I can't get into anything. 16 seconds in, there's 40 things to say. For one, keep in mind, with Jordan Peterson, every, and Ben Shapiro as well, everything in their fucking persona and character and vocabulary, everything has to be geared toward appearing to be smarter than they are at all times and it's so funny, just a small example, maybe it's nitpicky, but like he has to say comical, it's always so comical, it's very comical, he says comical like four times, he can't just say like, yeah, it's really funny, it was hilarious, because that's

0:36:11 Lydia: It's all good.

0:36:29 Lydia: Mm-hmm. Mm hmm, hmm. Yeah yeah.

0:36:43 Thomas: What I, an idiot, would say. I can say that, I can say something's funny because I'm just an idiot, but a smart person said, well, it's very comical, so comical, yeah, yep, yeah.

0:36:43 Lydia: Yeah. No, he references that thesaurus in his brain, right? Because he can't just say the word that is most readily used. He has to come up with the synonym that is a little, I fancier.

0:37:01 Thomas: And I'm realizing I said a little bit about this kind of thing in the, in the live stream for top patrons the other day, that was so much fun, top two tiers, ah, love you folks, that was amazing, but like, I I, very much in my life, my my entire life always had the opposite priority. Like I I feel can't, like trying to sound smarter than you are is fake. As a consequence, I sound really dumb and Jordan Peterson sounds really smart. And that's just something I have to live with. I just have to Live With It.

0:37:08 Lydia: Two tiers. Yeah Yeah.

0:37:29 Thomas: Then also I just Have To Point Out that he said it's the number one song in the world, which was never true. It was the number 1 on iTunes for like a minute. It, um, the thing he puts up, like the graphic that goes up behind him, is just number one song in America. So I think it's like even his own graphic, like he couldn't find one that confirmed his lie. Just had to point that out. Here

0:37:27 Lydia: Oh, Yeah. Before, but you continue, though, I just have one note. Feel seen, because when he said anyone who's vaguely awake, that's me. I am vaguely awake every Day

0:37:55 Thomas: Are your two Modes Are asleep or vaguely awake? Yeah, that's True, there's

0:37:57 Lydia: Yeah So He said that. Yeah, I felt really appreciated Yeah One

0:38:02 Thomas: And Well, okay, fact check We'll give him credit for that one. You were vaguely awake and you were aware of this song. So there you go. It's very comical.

0:38:06 Lydia: Point, true

0:38:12 Clip: Bench beer in time to do have the number one son in the room at the minute, and it's very comical cuz it's rap song, and just the idea of Ben Shapiro being rap, hip -hop, is comical in and of itself. It's even more comical because he's been a critic of that particular genre, so it's very interesting to watch Ben step out of his presuppositions, let's say, and also his domain of previous competence, although he is a musician.

0:38:24 Thomas: This is comical?

0:38:31 Lydia: Genre Yeah

0:38:35 Thomas: I hear, and later in this video, he references him as being a classically trained musician or somebody else does.

0:38:40 Lydia: He shows A picture Doesn't

0:38:41 Thomas: Yeah, he's classically training. Yeah. Oh, and so I, you a musician, though not classically train, whatever the fuck that means, latched I onto that. And I have heard that vaguely, but I've never cared enough to research it until now, baby. And this set me down a path of, want, I had to know because just wanted to know, because we're finally talking about music and this has come up a bunch, with uh, this Ben Shapiro rap video, his snobbery and it's like, I'm classically trained. And I was like, all right, fine. I'm going to look into to this. Are you a musician? And so I started Googling and I was just kind of looking for some stuff here and there. And one of the first things that came up, okay, here's what I'm doing. This is a teaser, folks. This is a tease.

0:38:41 Lydia: He Yeah

0:39:21 Thomas: I launch into this now. I'm myself down so that I don't launch in. Yeah. Lydia knows nothing about this. Am going to play for you what is to me and anyone else who knows music, probably one of funniest fucking clips I've ever heard in my life. And I'm not going to go into it because that'll be the bonus. I have so much on this that I'm just going to do for patrons. But here you go, hun. You ready for this? This

0:39:23 Lydia: And I Know nothing about this, so okay I'm Ready

0:39:44 Clip: An octave is, you know, in music, an octave is non -dissonance. The seventh is that weird feeling that you get when somebody is playing an A and almost an octave up. They're playing a note that is one below the octave. It sounds terrible. It's actually called the devil in music.

0:39:56 Lydia: Yeah That Would that Would Be Seven Yeah Oh

0:40:02 Clip: Quick music theory lesson there for you. But it sounds dissonant. It doesn't sound correct. So here's Trump talking about Joyce and he's the old office and all conservatives across the land shaking their heads.

0:40:03 Lydia: My god Wow

0:40:15 Thomas: So good. It's every second, every second of that video is funny. And I can't wait to go into why. And it also led down, there is actually a debunk, uh, in this bonus. It's a debulk of, and it's just a myth. Shapiro does reference it there, but it's also, itS like, I don't blame him for that.

0:40:17 Lydia: One Less than an octave

0:40:33 Thomas: Yeah. It'S like, It's a commonly referenced thing that is just not true.

0:40:27 Lydia: Oh Just In General It's A myth Yeah Okay, did You find any like youth recitals Of his Oh, my

0:40:39 Thomas: I did. I actually did. And it'S not hard. It's on YouTube. But like he kept referencing being classically trained. So when I saw this, I was like, well, no, you're not like that. That's stupid. Like there's no one who is classically train, quote unquote, would talk about music in this way.

0:40:42 Lydia: God. My God, I'm so excited.

0:40:55 Lydia: Yeah.

0:40:55 Thomas: But then I was Like, am I being too harsh? Maybe he's now 30. think he's two years older than me. So he's now whatever that is, 39 or something. I was like, ah, maybe it's been a while, you know, maybe he doesn't remember his theory. Here's another weird thing about the video. Well, no, I'm not going to go into it. Yeah, I can't go into It.

0:41:04 Lydia: Yeah, no, you can't. You got to sign up at patreon.com/wherethereswoke.

0:41:12 Thomas: God, I found there's literally literally a video of him when he was 12 that we're going to go through. There's a video Of him recently that we'RE going to Go through, um, We're going to talk about a music myth that he, that again, I don't particularly blame him for this, but like, now that I've looked into any of this, I of course have to talk about this stupid fucking myth, um, that he references, and uh, not for nothing though, if I were to try to distill one of the important messages for the main show here, not the bonus, is, is being obsessed with quote-unquote "classical music" and classics and all that is about as racist as you might think if you're a listener to this show.

0:41:17 Lydia: My God so excited about that.

0:41:47 Thomas: It really is. Like, it's the kind of thing that it's just like saying Western philosophy or Western blah, blah, dah, or values or whatever. It's just code for white.

0:41:44 Lydia: Hmm. Yep. Yep, yeah.

0:41:56 Lydia: White people.

0:41:57 Thomas: Yeah, that's All it is. And what I love is when like me who knows a thing or two about music and is wise to these racist talking points and to these like ways of disguising it, makes it so abundantly clear how not smart you actually are when you talk about Western classical blah, blah, like it sounds smart to the average person. Like, yeah, classically trained. Wow. The classics. Those are smart. Oh, Plato, Aristotle, smart, smartness.

0:41:57 Lydia: Yep mm Mm-hmm. Mm hmm, mm hmm, yeah.

0:42:22 Thomas: But then I hear him talk about music theory and I'm like, oh no, you don't know what the hell you're talking about at all. And it's part of the facade. Like it's all part of the I'm So Smart facade. And all I'm gonna say on for now. So that's Ben Shapiro.

0:42:30 Lydia: Yeah. That makes me so uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah, oh

0:42:36 Thomas: And now Jordan Peterson. We're not even gonna get to the video. And I know I played, hold on, how much did I play? I played 30 seconds of it.

0:42:43 Lydia: Yeah, I was gonna say 26 seconds was my guess.

0:42:45 Thomas: 30 seconds of it! Admittedly, there is another like 30 seconds I can play before we get to our first thing, but I'm not going to because there's a different thing I want to talk about, which is I've set up the characters a little bit. I've said up Ben Shapiro, I've sat up Tom McDonald now, and I've also set up Jordan Peterson. However, there's another thing I want to put here because, uh, I think it's a good place for it, even though it's a little out of order. Makes an offhanded comment in this video and I'm just going to go ahead and, uh... I'll play the comment. Again, I'm cheating. This is six minutes and 29 seconds into the video. We're never going to get that far. Don't worry. We'll never really get that But I want to play this because I found it. It just stuck out. I was like, what's that about? Here, let's listen.

0:42:46 Lydia: Okay. Okay, yeah

0:43:22 Clip: I would recommend that, you know, as a clinical psychologist, which I still am, by the way.

0:43:27 Lydia: Oh,

0:43:27 Thomas: It's like, What is that? Do you know about that?

0:43:29 Lydia: Yeah I had picked up on some of this through like osmosis or whatever of our online, that there were for his coming into question, right? Like, because of his positions on certain things and stuff. But I did not follow it super closely.

0:43:38 Thomas: Yeah. So I hadn't followed that at all. So I looked into it a little. And we've got ourselves a court document to read. Canadian. So, I don't know how I'm not doing a law breakdown, but I'm just reading it.

0:43:52 Lydia: Yeah. Don't know know a lot about American law. So there you go.

0:43:58 Thomas: Yeah? No, I'm I'm just reading this for the background and the fact pattern kind of thing. Peterson, who is very proudly saying that he's still a clinical psychologist. Reason he made that comment was here's the thing about being a clinical psychologist is the only reason that's worth fucking anything. This goes for, I don't know, being a lawyer or being a whatever, a doctor or whatever, is because there's some sort of organization that's in charge of letting letting people know like, yes, that person is a legitimate ex, you know, like, yeah, licensed.

0:44:02 Lydia: Yep, yep, yep. Yep.

0:44:26 Lydia: Licensed to practice. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

0:44:28 Thomas: Exactly. That's a great word for it. He's licensed. God, the of this guy just knows no bounds. Like it truly does not. Like that he thinks he's above every single rule ever made is the weirdest. So hard to understand why people don't see that as anything other than being a fucking asshole. So many people worship him for this. All Like, I see is, oh so you're just an asshole who thinks the rules don't apply to you in any way, shape or form.

He'll often lecture people about how they ought to, you being so individual and get along with society and follow the rules, you know, oh, oh, men and women are different. You got to follow the roles of society to be a blah, blah, you know, it's like until it's a licensing board is saying, hey, you got to follow our rules to have a license. And he's like, this is a fucking dystopia. This is an outrage. it'S really pathetic.

So here's a little bit of background I'm not gonna read the whole thing but peterson has been registered with the college as that's the College of Psychologists of Ontario. So that's, you is in charge of him having a license,

0:44:29 Lydia: Yeah, I Right.

0:45:33 Thomas: I suppose.

0:45:34 Lydia: The board. Yeah?

0:45:35 Thomas: And so it says he's been registered with the college as a clinical psychologist since 1999. Okay. So at least he was a real vet. Give him credit. However, do you know this? You could guess, when did he last see a patient?

0:45:48 Lydia: 2015.

0:45:49 Thomas: Oh, that's a very good good guess. However, he stopped seeing patients in 2017 and no longer has a clinical practice. Rather, as his counsel described him in their written submissions, quote, he is a prolific author, podcaster, and YouTube content producer who

0:45:55 Lydia: Oh, yeah, I was gonna say he's too busy making videos.

0:46:06 Thomas: Maintains an active social media presence. In his social and political commentary, Dr. Peterson is often colorful and controversial. Dr. Peterson maintains his membership in the college and and refers to himself in his public statements as a clinical psychologist. So that's apparently very important to him. Now we have, since at least 2018, I like the at least, the college has received complaints about Dr. Peterson's public statements. Some complaints have been formal, but many were tweeted to the college via the social media platform, often involve Dr. Pearson's views on topics of social and blah, blah, blah, so the categories are, you know, transphobic, racism, racism, you know, overpopulation and COVID-19 among others. So we won't go through all of them, but they, they outlined some of the complaints. I love this, again, is very Canadian slash. It's also seems to be how these things work.

Cause like in the same way that you cannot fucking ever get disbarred, apparently the first response to these complaints in 2020, following an investigation, by the way, the the ICRC, which with the following advice, "As a registered member of the college and in light of your public profile, you may wish to offer your opinions and comments in a respectful tone in order to avoid a negative perception toward the profession of psychology."

0:47:19 Lydia: Yeah.

0:47:19 Thomas: That's it. Was their first thing. Hey, sorry, but can you be respectful when when you're being a transphobic, racist piece of shit. And of course, Jordan Peterson said, how dare you? I will not, you know, it's just like, he can't even accept that. And then they get, way you more complaints, of course. Of this stuff is like, all right, I actually don't care that much. Responded Like there's, to somebody about overpopulation by saying you're free to leave at any point, I guess, guess, you know, implying like go kill yourself, I guess, but like not, I, I don't know, like honestly that one for Twitter, like honestly that in Twitter speak, that's like kind of gentle.

I didn't really care about that. There's plenty more to be upset about. Um, but they list a bunch of stuff here. So, uh, Here's one various comments. Dr. Peterson made on a January 25th appearance on a podcast podcast, the Joe Rogan experience. Dr Peterson is identified Identified as a clinical psychologist and spoke about a, quote, vindictive client whose complaint about him was a pack of lies. Speaking about. So that's bad, which feel Like if you were a clinical psychiatrist and you're like, yeah, I have this vindictve client who's a liar. Like,

0:47:34 Lydia: Oh yeah. Yeah

0:48:23 Thomas: Yeah.

0:48:23 Lydia: It's problematic.

0:48:24 Thomas: Like, maybe that's not like I would think the board that is in charge of licensing you would be able to have an opinion on that. I think that seems valid to me. And then bearing the lead here, says it this, speaking about air pollution and child deaths, Dr. Peterson said, quote, it's just poor children and the world has too many people on it anyways.

0:48:25 Lydia: Yeah

0:48:45 Thomas: Yeah. I don't know if that's some joke or out of context.

0:48:44 Lydia: My god what an asshole.

0:48:48 Thomas: I didn't check, but just go fuck yourself. Like the minute anyone ever talks about children dying is anything other than complete tragedy, you should just fucking Go fuck yourself as hard as can possibly be. I have no tolerance for that whatsoever. It's awful and evil and you can just go fuck yourself. Did these children choose to be born poor? You fucking asshole. I don't care how many bootstraps you believe in, like the children are children. So fuck off. I know this whole thing is like, everyone's responsible for, how you they were born, but like, fuck off. All right, anyway, lots more annoying shit. He sucks. Oh my god. But I have, do you know, okay, just want to send you this one. I don't, I'm sure you already know this, but just in case you don't, I just have to send me this tweet because this is one of my favorite things ever. I saw this in real time when it happened, and

0:48:55 Lydia: Yeah maybe he should just be gone then like geez.

0:49:38 Thomas: It was the funniest thing I've ever fucking seen and I'll never get over it. I

0:49:42 Lydia: I a link. I am clicking the link. Website formerly known as Twitter has loaded, and he has opinions about the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. Yeah.

0:49:53 Thomas: Do you remember this, were you, oh God, it's so good, sorry.

0:49:55 Lydia: I do remember this. Model Yumi Nu, looks like, and she is plus size. And he says, sorry, not beautiful, and no amount of authoritarian tolerance is going to change that. Wow.

0:50:10 Thomas: Not beautiful. This is from May 16, 2022. Can you believe it's been almost two years? And You say plus size, this is just a normal person, like, I don't understand.

0:50:15 Lydia: Yeah. Sorry, I'm Thinking like model, model speak, right? Like, she'd Be Considered Plus Size And Models

0:50:20 Thomas: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Model Speak For Plus Size Means completely Normal ass human being who looks great, by the way, like, And I, this is so fucking funny to me because I saw this in real time back when I guess I was still on Twitter and see the swimsuit model. I'm like, oh, she's absolutely hot. Objectively speaking, there's no way anyone would ever think she's not hot. Not only that, here's the other funny thing that I instantly thought was don't these dumb fucks always have like the whole, you know, well, evolutionarily blah, blah, and like every single thing I've ever read about anything suggests that like wanting women to weigh 70 pounds is a recent thing. Like I don't think that that's like an evolutionarily driven thing. I think if anything, this model looks much more like the quote unquote classic conception of beauty that I would think this idiot would be into, but he literally tweets, sorry, not

0:50:24 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:50:41 Lydia: She's Beautiful, yeah.

0:50:59 Lydia: Yeah.

0:51:13 Thomas: Beautiful.

0:51:13 Lydia: Because She Looks like she can bear children.

0:51:15 Thomas: Yeah. She's just normal. Like, I'll be honest, she's just looks normal and great, no like amount of authoritarian tolerance. It's the best authoritarian tolerance, yeah, the replies are amazing, yeah.

0:51:15 Lydia: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's Crazy. Crazy. Oh, My gosh, someone, someone tweeted, uh, replied, you know, and Said How's This related to authoritarianism?

0:51:36 Thomas: Here's what I love about the replies, which I was also going to go into, because I haven't found the reply I saw at the same time, because Twitter is a mess and who, God knows, it could be deleted, could be not there, who knows. I saw at the time, and I actually felt for this guy, and you can still see these comments underneath this tweet to this day, people who are fans of Jordan Peterson, and there was one I remember that was like, hey man, I'm fan of yours, but like, my this wife looks like this, and I think she's really hot, like can you please, like not say this, you know, and I remember just in that moment, I know it's a Jordan Peterson fan, so we can only have so much sympathy, but I remember feeling for that guy being like, yeah, man. Duh. Cause this isn't some authoritarian project to make you accept some hideous thing is beautiful. It's like, nah, she just looks fine. Looks good.

0:51:45 Lydia: Wow.

0:52:18 Lydia: It's Crazy On The cover of a magazine.

0:52:23 Thomas: Magazines dare to allow people who have, you I don't want to body shame anybody. She that being skinny, There's nothing wrong with being skinny, but she is someone.

0:52:24 Lydia: No, It's Just all different body shapes And sizes, yeah.

0:52:31 Thomas: Yeah. Whereas Before you had to be a certain body type to be on a music, it's nice that sometimes people are like, yeah, well, sort of, it's still terrible, but like we're, made progress in, in being like, hey, here's someone who we're going to call plus size, which I think is insane, who's just like an like average body type, um, it's progress, I guess, again. And what I love about this tweet is so many people are like, uh, I You man, you really, you've inspired me, but like, what, yeah.

0:52:32 Lydia: Yeah.

0:52:54 Lydia: Oh, my God. Someone said, honestly, this took a lot of confidence to tweet considering your face. I appreciate that.

0:53:04 Thomas: Yeah. There's Also some good owns, But like I, one, Dr. Peterson, I I respect you and you've changed my life reading your books, but you do not determine what beauty is. This is an awful tweet. Another one, dude, she's hot. There's so many. Oh, here's a good one. This tweet was a mistake. Been a listener since the very beginning, five plus years ago. This tweet is disappointing and unnecessary. The critics are justified this time, Dr. Peterson. I fail to see, I love this, these fucking dorks. I fail to see how this is a meaningful or precise tweet.

0:53:06 Lydia: Yeah. Oh, Oh my gosh. Precise.

0:53:36 Thomas: Fucking stupid. God. God. Amazing. I, an asshole, colossal like asshole. Sorry. Not beautiful. No amount of authority. And of course that spawns so many memes. Like it's just incredible. Like you just put that description with like so many different things. Oh. It's just the best. It's the best man. There's other good photos from that shoot. She's great. Someone's saying a another of the photos and said, this is the ideal female male body.

0:53:37 Lydia: Yeah.

0:54:00 Thomas: You may not like it, but this is what peak performance looks like.

0:53:53 Lydia: Amazing. Yeah, right.

0:54:04 Thomas: Good stuff. So, that, forgot about that. And it was referenced in this court document as one of the complaints, and it goes on and on and lots of complaints, lots of complains. I'm going to cut to the chase and let you know that this court thingy I'm reading, is a good court thing, because he appealed whatever thing it was to the Canadian court, and the Canadian cort was like, "No, fuck you." So the court document was like, "Yeah, no, you got to listen to the fucking licensing that's in charge of that." Like, that's seems like a pretty basic, forget everything else.

0:54:22 Lydia: Mm-hmm, yeah.

0:54:36 Thomas: That conservative for a moment, um, get to be in charge of that and set regulations so that I, a potential customer, can see, "Ah, this person is licensed by this board, that must mean something, that must means they at least something" you for him to treat that like it's some, again, it's Trumpian, like the rules just do not apply to this fucking guy. Let tweeted out, like, what they wanted him to do. And it's like, he has to do, he, like, a course on not being a fucking asshole, and he has to pay for it. And, and again, I don't even know, like, he probably has to violate shit 10 more times before anything happens, 'cause, you know, too lenient. This kind of stuff is too lenien, in my opinion.

0:55:11 Lydia: But re -education, right?

0:55:13 Thomas: Well, okay, here you go. Here's his post. After Uh, losing this decision, higher court in Canada has ruled that the Ontario college of psychologists indeed has the right to sentence me to a reeducation camp. There are no other legal avenues open to me. Now it's capitulate to the petty bureaucrats and the adult pated woke mob or lose my professional license.

0:55:32 Thomas: Congressional CP, Ontario, you won this round. Mark my words, however, the war has barely started.

0:55:26 Lydia: Oh God. Oh my god. Stop it.

0:55:41 Thomas: There is nothing you can take from me that I'm unwilling to lose, so watch out, seriously, You have been warned. That was only a month ago, it's he's insane, like he's just insane, saying,

0:55:41 Lydia: No. My God. Okay. This is so melodramatic. Oh, my God. Disney villain. Like, it's just so ridiculous. Yeah. Comment in my notes, then, is holding up great, right? Like, I am genuinely concerned about him. I also wrote, like, this man is not well.

0:56:09 Thomas: That being said, let's go into this video until I have to stop it for part two. Ready?

0:56:15 Lydia: Scream. Yeah.

0:56:17 Thomas: How far we get into this.

0:56:19 Clip: With the analysis okay, well the first thing we might point out here with regards to use of language is that Tom does use genders, and I think that's actually, uh, what would you say, that's an interpreted mistake, because he should have used sexes.

0:56:30 Thomas: Here's his first analysis here.

0:56:41 Clip: By using genders, he fell into the trap that the leftists have made with regards to Language utilization. They're very, very good at occupying the linguistic terrain. There are a variety of temperaments, and that's easy to get confused with gender, and those are part of the reason we have the problem we have. And sexes would have worked, because it's also a two -syllable word, and it's a minor critique, but in some ways it seems picky, which means minor, but it's isn't.

0:56:41 Thomas: I cannot tell you how serious his face is. Like deadly serious here. That's It's our favorite of the whole thing. Thank you. You've said minor four times, and then you're like, and it seems picayune, which also means minor, by the way, just in case.

0:57:14 Lydia: Seems pekyoon. Yeah. That's like when I write, when I would like write papers and stuff in Microsoft Word and I'd be like, I'm using this word too many times. Let me right click and do a synonym for it so I can switch it up.

0:57:27 Thomas: Yeah. All geared towards sounding as smart as possible. Dumbs But it down for us dumbs by saying, it's minor, it's minor, and also picayun, which means minor.

0:57:41 Lydia: -hmm.

0:57:41 Clip: It's more important than that because if you let your political opponents gain the linguistic territory, then they win, right? You can't once you use their words, they win, so

0:57:53 Thomas: The fuck are you talking? I mean, all of this is just him finding things to say like this is an hour. This video is 51 minutes. I cannot tell you how not worth 51 minutes the lyrics of this rap video are. They're nothing. They're absolutely nothing. It's almost like he's playing a game of like how much output can I do from nothing? You know, like it's an improv game. That commits him to making really stupid points over and over. So, like, he's saying you should have used sexes and not gender. First it's like, OK, I think he's making that point because it's a little more defensible to say there's only two sexes. Like that's a little more biological and maybe you can defend that claim better. Saying genders is kind of a misstep. But then he says the reason, though, the reason why, again, Tom McDonald, who is anti-woke here, the reason he should use sexes is because you're occupied the linguistic train.

0:58:42 Clip: You let your political opponents gain the linguistic territory, then they win because

0:58:48 Thomas: Okay. Well then wouldn't you want to use gender? You're going to not use gender, then you are seeding the linguistic terrain. Like proper anti-woke thing to to be, say would be like, no, no, I'm committing to gender because I'm not going to cede that word to them.

0:58:52 Lydia: No,

0:59:04 Thomas: And I'm going to just say there's only two genders. So, like, in again, an effort to spend 51 minutes on nothing, just makes really stupid fucking points. And that's most of this. We're not going to go through all of it. See how far further we can get here, okay?

0:59:04 Lydia: Yeah yeah

0:59:16 Clip: You use their worlds, they win. So that's so with regards to every Caucasian being a bigot and his claim that then therefore every Muslim is a terrorist and every liberal is right, which is definitely not correct, especially if you're talking about the progressive mob, the

0:59:47 Thomas: Just have to point out first, like, how awkward that fucking those lines are, okay? If every Caucasian's a bigot, I guess every Muslim's a terrorist, okay? Okay, first off, nobody says every Caucasian's a bigot, nope. Like, again, his entire rap career except for that one good song is just, nobody, nothing, stop saying I'm racist because I'm white, like that's this whole thing, nobody says that, nobody says, we've gone on how many years of this, 10 years, yeah, actually it goes back to slavery, by the way, but, like, you know, white people have been complaining about being the real victims forever, like since the 1800s at least, but like.

Like, even in just our kind of lifetimes of this current movement, least a decade of, you think everyone who's white is racist, and every time being like, no, no one thinks everyone is racist they're white. Whiteness is a concept that's kind of racist, it's not the same thing. It's like, how many times do we have to clarify this? But like, okay, forgetting that for a moment, I'll, your shitty right-wing lyric of, if every Caucasian's a bigot, I guess every Muslim's a terrorist.

Okay, wow, great, amazing lyric. And then he says, every liberal is right. It's like, what, what, is the structure there? Cause formula is if every certain identity is bad thing, then other identity is a bad thing. But then he switches to like, liberal is a good thing. So it, like, switches, like the wording suggests that you're, you're arguing or talking to a liberal, you know, like you're arguing against liberal points. So, like, why would you say that? Wouldn't say like, well, every Caucasian's a bigot, then I guess every liberal is right. Cause a liberal would be like, well, yes, I don't. Okay, I guess, uh,

0:59:59 Lydia: Hmm. Mm

1:01:19 Thomas: A weird thing to say. I don'T know that it doesn't really work because like liberal is like an ideology. So why would some of them be right? But others not be right. Like what would, it's just this, I guess that's technically could be, it's such a fucking awkward shitty lyric, so dumb, anyway then we get to what launched a thousand ships or whatever the fuck here, because, uh, uh, here I'm going to tease part two, uh, this interesting.

1:01:24 Lydia: Hmm.

1:01:41 Clip: Fundamental problem with the, there's a variety of fundamental problems with the woke algorithm, reductive algorithm, or ideology that Ben and Tom are criticizing. We did research back in 2016 looking at political, political correct authoritarianism, and that was back when psychologists were just starting to analyze left-wing authoritarianism, and we found that the best predictors of being a left -wind authoritarian were being not verbally be intelligent. That was a well -being predictor. It was the very most closely associated with intelligence that I had ever seen, including grades. And so, if you're not very bright, the woke ideology is very attractive to you. The second best predictor was being female. The third best predicter was having a female temperament. The fourth best predictors was ever having taken a course that had the woke ideologies as a portion of it.

1:02:05 Thomas: What

1:02:05 Lydia: Mm hm.

1:02:20 Thomas: Huh okay

1:02:41 Lydia: Is crazy.

1:02:42 Thomas: Obviously, uh, our eyebrows and was like, what is this about? Did he have research? Did he do research? And then I was like, what is this? And so looked into it and would it surprise you to know that literally everything he just said is a lie? Like, would it surprise you to know, as a teaser for part two, everyone, what if everything he said was just made up, fucking wrong in ways?

1:02:50 Lydia: Yeah. God.

1:03:06 Thomas: In part two—we're now three minutes into the video, and I have to stop, and I've done the reading so that you all don't have to. I looked at the study, quote-unquote, and I've tried to track down what he could possibly be talking about. And answer is, I think he's just lying, uh, misremembering, maybe, charitably speaking, but like, I cannot wait to tell you all how, original paper he's talking about, it does exist, one of them exists.

One that he might be referring to exists, this, and after reading it 40 times, because I'm not a scientist, and I, I understand, I'm not going to do a scientific breakdown, but I can at least represent what they claim to have found, I don't need to be a scientist to do that, really, I can represent what they claim and tell you that over the years he keeps changing what it was, and to the point where it's now unrecognizable, and so that's, uh, next time on Where There's Woke, how did Jordan Peterson go from whatever, was like, like it seems to have been a legitimate paper, sort of, I can't fully endorse it because I'm not a scientist, but it seems as though it was something like legitimate to whatever

1:03:24 Lydia: Yeah, I can't

1:04:08 Thomas: The fuck he just said there. Wait to tell you all. So thanks so much for listening. Go to patreon.com/wherethereswoke. Please support the show and that bonus on Ben Shapiro's music acumen and his musicianship is going to to be so much fun. So make sure you pledge.

1:04:19 Lydia: Wait.

1:04:40 Thomas: Rather see your nazi shit there's saying I'm racist because I'm white like

1:04:45 Lydia: 2015.