SIO426: In Defense of Virtue Signaling

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:12 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Serious Inquiries Only. This is episode 426. I'm your host, Thomas Smith, and don't even know how to begin, folks. I don't even know to begin other than to say, through a year and a of good court thingies, hard-earned, hard fought, good court thingies, I am back on Opening Arguments. I'm hosting the show and I'm having Matt Cameron on primarily and also going to try to find others to expand our repertoire, but primarily Matt. Matt is amazing. Seriously, he's such a great guy. He's an immigration attorney. He also has some criminal defense. He uses the law to help people, who desperately need it. And I would love for you, if you haven't already, to go check out the first episode with Matt.

0:01:00 Thomas: It's out now everywhere, and it really gets into his background, some really, gosh, just gut-wrenching cases that he talks about. We also had some fun getting to know each other. We laugh a little bit, and it is a great podcast episode. It's really good. I hope you'll listen to it. I really hope you'll check out Opening Arguments and please support the show. It's in an interesting situation and I can't talk much about it. But what I can say is, legally speaking right now, due to, again, hard fought wins in court of the comedian of the show over the Harvard attorney of the show. We now have a receiver in place and that receiver is Yvette D'Entremont, Cybabe, you may know her from online from internet and she's great.

0:01:46 Thomas: She is a model of integrity. She's doing the job that is court ordered. Her job is to do what's best for the company, Opening Arguments, and so all decisions that are being made are being made with now her tie-breaking vote, must be in the best interest of the company by court order. And right now, I'm getting the chance to prove that me hosting Opening Arguments is what's best for the company. But this is a live issue. This is a current and live ongoing legal dispute. So I have to do everything I can to prove to the event that me hosting is better for the company, Opening Arguments. And I to just ask you, the bottom of my heart, help me show that. Please help me share what I know to to be the case, what I know to be true, was that what Andrew did caused the downfall of the business.

0:02:37 Thomas: And my view, that business to be turned around, Andrew can't be the face of it. We've also agreed that for the time being, any profits over and above the operating costs of running the show and the will go toward repair and accountability. And of course, we'll give any updates we can as that gets figured out. Right now, we still have a lot to figure out. We have a lot to We're finally getting to have full access, as was ordered by the court on February 2nd, have full access to company files and accounts and everything. So one more time, just I will ask you to help me prove to the court and to the receiver what I know to be true, which is that doing the right thing a year ago when this happened was what needed to be done.

0:03:22 Thomas: Doing the right things also was the right thing for the business, and that wasn't done. Any successful effort to repair the business involves accounting for those mistakes and moving forward in a different direction. But most of all, over there on Opening Arguments, I plan on getting back to what made the show great, rate. And I really think Matt is such a great addition.

We've already recorded a bunch and now I'm just, I'm up to my eyeballs in editing, trying to get it out because there's so much we're doing, extra stuff, kind of get some practice going. Some of it'll be perhaps Patron only, but you know, some of it won't, there's going to be plenty available for everybody. So please go check out Opening Arguments and I am so looking forward to the future there. All right.

So wanted to combine this because I knew I wanted to, you know, talk a bit about what was going on over there. I wanted to combine this with something else that I've been wanting to talk about for a really long time. Well, I say that for several months, I've wanted to talk to you for several months. So I hope you'll excuse, uh, the weirdness of the episode, but this is just something that's very important to me.

0:04:21 Thomas: I think it will resonate with you all. But it's about corporate pride, is a big part of it, but not just corporate pride, also of pride and support for queer folks, trans folks, my evolving thoughts on this because I just feel like there are so many people who have a very cynical view of this, but not quite for the right reasons and in a way that has lost perspective. You know, most people know this. I grew up in a right-wing Fox News household and it took a while to kind of get out of all that. And one of the first things that really successfully just, oh, begun like, the process of, oh, that's all bullshit, process was, of course, where I grew up, in the time I grew up in the 90s, early 2000s, the word gay was thrown around like an insult, and obviously worse words, but the word gay was thrown around casually to mean bad.

0:05:10 Thomas: And I remember in college, started doing theater, I'd made a lot of friends, and that stereotype of people being overrepresented in theater is just accurate. Let's face it. And so I made a lot of gay friends and I loved them. They were great. Think I just kind of subconsciously that mostly out of my vocabulary, taking that word as a negative, as a pejorative, out of my vocabulary. I said, I think it was just kind of a subconscious feeling in my brain of like, yeah, that's obviously not a polite thing to do, but it wasn't something I had, you know, really thought too much about until one night I just, it just, it just slipped. And then I just happened to say, I don't, I have no idea what I was talking about. It was, it wasn'T anything serious. It was just like, oh, you know, oh, something that's a, is essentially a, that's a bummer type expression. And I said, that's gay the way that is not okay to say it, a negative, meaning a pejorative. And then I met eyes of my gay friends right at that instant.

0:05:58 Thomas: And I was like, oh my God, I am so sorry. It was just like a wave of like, I really hadn't consciously thought of it. It was a wave of like, I, I am so sorry. And told him that the instant, like it was, it was just something that went from, oh, I hadn't really thought about to like, oh shit, in, in 28 seconds, I had gone from not really thinking about it to, oh my God, I'm so sorry, I'm never going to say that again. That's, I don't know for word, but it was something close to that because I just hadn't thought about it, and all of a sudden I see it's pretty powerful to be like, I'm saying something like that's a negative thing, and then someone who identifies as that word is right in front of me, someone who was a good friend who I loved hanging out with, and just realizing just the awfulness of that in that moment, inadvertent, I didn't bear any like hatred for gay people, that doesn't matter though. It doesn't really matter what was in my heart.

0:06:44 Thomas: What matters is how hurtful that is to hear that. Imagine if qualities that you have, and not just qualities, I shouldn't even say that. Imagine if fundamental identities that you have, and I'm sure many of you don't have to imagine this. But if you are someone, a privileged person like me, imagine if those identities were used as a negative, just casually used as a negative expression, depression, like all the time. You know, it's, it's, I think it's so much better now.

It's something I still hear occasionally and it sucks. But it, but it's nowhere like it used to be. It used to be everywhere all the time. At least, I don't know, as a kid, I guess, maybe adults weren't saying it all the times, but like as kids, it was everywhere all the time. And truly in that moment, I said, I will never say that again in that way, obviously. And I never did.

Did I never did, I went from not having thought of it, being raised this way, being using that word commonly, I'm sure not a ton, but like using it commonly as kids where I was, did, I will never say that again that way, and I never did, it is actually possible to learn and grow, is actually possible to, instead of making excuses for your behavior and the easy way out. Oh, oh, it's just, it doesn't mean the bad thing. Like it doesn't, oh, it's just something I grew up with. It doesn't make excuses. No, recognize what's going on and stop.

I actually didn't even realize I was going to tell that story. That's kind of how my brain works. Sorry. So anyway, all this is to say that even then, even though I had made that growth, minimal though it may sound to you, and that's fine, but I had made that personal growth and it was important to me.

I still was in, for a long time, I'm in that awful centrist lane, you know, just like I had seen that right wing crap was stupid, I had still that negative partisanship, just that awful image of left wing stuff.

0:08:29 Thomas: And so I had that middle of the road centrist approach for a while. And I bring it up because if you have that negative bipartisanship, and this is even true of a lot of Democrats, it's true of the people on the left. A lot of people have absorbed that negative stereotype and coverage and perception of people on the left. You know, it's SJWs, it is the woke, it has a lot of stuff I already talked about. And this is not to say there is no valid criticism, of course. There is valid criticism of opportunism and amok, silliness, wokeness gone amok or whatever. There is going to be legitimate criticisms, of course. But when you perhaps have that mindset, that centrist mindset, or that sort of anti-left mindset, even when you are maybe center left or maybe even left, it's easy to look at any displays. They call it virtue signaling.

0:09:14 Thomas: That's a thing that was thrown around a lot when I first got into podcasting. It's not thrown out so much now. I think people, I mean, people are still complaining. They're just using different words. They're just saying it's wokeness or it's blah, blah, blah, but virtue signaling was the thing that for some reason bothers a lot of people. It's a very, very weird thing because on some level, socially speaking, we all can think of a person who's like a little bit too, you know, braggy and wanting attention for something good they did in a way that we're like, all right, okay, you're trying to show that you're better than, and so, okay. And yeah, we can all imagine that version of that that's like, it's a little far, maybe even downright obnoxious sometimes, who knows. But what you see online oftentimes with anything like this, with pride, with kneeling, with Black Lives Matter, with any of these efforts that people make to their voices heard and standing up for people they think need that, people they they think need that support.

0:10:10 Thomas: Gay people, black people, immigrants, people of color, you name it, whoever it is, they think they need that support. They think that lending their voices and showing their support is good. And they think that. There is a, far too common reaction that that is some bullshit. Like, all right, enough with all pride. Yeah, you're real. You're so, you're great. Like you see these comments that are downright hysterical, like just from someone saying Black Lives Matter or having pronouns in their bio, your pronoun, you're so great. You're just, you's amazing. And they very quickly reveal like there's, there's something wrong. Talking about protesting too much. Like someone has a pronoun in their bio and they just lose their mind. Like, I can't believe your virtue signaling so hard. And to a certain extent for a while in my early twenties, I, I felt not that insane about it, but like, I felt that, I felt that like, okay, all right.

0:11:00 Thomas: And I will tell you a lot of that came from just ignorance of what was really going on in the world because I was ignorant. I was oblivious to the fact that like there are so many places, and to a certain extent everywhere, but there are some many places where rights, equality are just not at all where I thought they were, as a kind of ignorant person growing up in the nineties in a small white town. I thought things were fixed. You know, I thought it was bad. And so to that person, seeing all this display is like, what do you, what do we, what is this about? What are you even doing here? Like, all right. Yeah. We get gay marriage is legal. Everybody, like, what are we talking about? And I, you know, I didn't hold that view like super harsh or whatever. I wasn't going after people or anything, but just in my mind, I was like, oh, okay. It was one more defense mechanism, I think, as an asshole centrist to like not be too far left.

0:11:50 Thomas: And fortunately, as you guys well know, I shed that 10 years ago or whatever. I say all that because I get it. I've been there. I have been through that journey And I get it. And now I'm even further on the other side because through the last eight years, specifically the four Trump years and everything after and our entire fucking political situation after witnessing what it's been like for my trans friends, my gay friends, friends of color, people who need abortions, you know, witnessing that. That, oh no, they're not fine. Everything wasn't fixed. You can't point to Roe v. Wade and be like, yeah, yeah, that was decided. Well, now it's all of a sudden it's not decided. Hmm, how did that happen? Did that come out of nowhere? No, things were not what I thought they were 15 years ago.

0:12:35 Thomas: Conditions were not good in many places. Maybe they were good in some places. I think progress has been made, not gonna deny it. But I think we're in a real danger of losing a lot. I think obviously with Roe, We've lost a lot of that progress. And in other places that I'm worried we're not paying attention to, like gay rights, gay marriage. That's something I am deadly afraid that we are going to lose in this country, the right to marry someone of the same gender. Scary as though that seems to so many people. I'm worried we're going to lose that. I'm not saying, I'm not predicting we are, lest anyone, again, there's this desire to be like, oh, you're being hysterical. There's been solid gaslighting around stuff like that for a long time. And I regret that I was part of that 15 years ago. I was probably part of the gaslighting. What are you talking about?

0:13:20 Thomas: You know, the rights are settled on this, whatever. And now that I have paid so much attention, I've been so closely following all these situations and laws that are passed and all that for those last eight years, I'm more scared than ever. Like I'm, I'm like quite scared for a lot of, a lot of not just people I know, but just people I don't know, people anywhere, because I, what terrifies me so much in this world is, is intense hatred of people for inherent characteristics. It's just a, it's, it's a terrifying thing to me because just think about how precious my family is to me, and I just think about if the shoe were on the other foot, and it could be in many situations, what if someone is hating my kid for no reason? How could you want to do anything other than try to make that as rare as possible?

0:14:09 Thomas: World. Honestly, I will go to my grave never understanding how, at the very least, the minute you become a parent, how that doesn't turn everyone into the biggest pacifist to ever walk the earth. I will never understand that. To me, it is so scary to love someone and care about someone much, to see in the world, let alone in your neighborhood, in your country, to see people hating other people for no reason. I say no reason, I mean no just reason. Not as though hatred can't exist as a concept. I get that. But for hating people for no just reason. Hating people to the point where there are people who hate children because of identities that they have, which is just, I can't fathom that. So all this is to say actually, I really value things like pride, displays of pride. And I think they're important.

0:14:58 Thomas: They are so much more important than I ever would have thought as a youth. The difference between vulnerable and not having any idea someone supports you versus vulnerable. And seeing like, oh, wow, someone went out of their way to show they don't hate me. I have to imagine that that is a good thing to put into the world. Now, this is not to say that corporate pride isn't also bullshit, that's the thing, like you can still be plenty cynical about, like, yeah, okay, Pepsi's using the thing to sell Pepsi, what, yeah, fine, doesn't, but it, but like, so what, the thing, I'm not going around giving a bunch of money to stuff just because it has rainbow colors on it. Maybe some people are, but also if they are, who gives a shit, like it's not a big deal, it's it strikes me when people whine about this kind of thing, why are you so concerned about it? People, people give money to things for all kinds of dumb reasons.

0:15:50 Thomas: Why does that concern you? Oh, they don't really believe it. Well, first of all, maybe some of them do. I don't know. Maybe some of them don't. But also, why do you care so much about that? Why does it bother you so much to see gay people, queer people be supported? Why is that a thing that like, even if you're like, all right, this corporation is doing bullshit and that'll happen. There's plenty of like room for like, oh my God, they're trying to slap a rainbow on this and sell it. Yeah, totally can be valid criticism. But when you see the people who it's really bothering them a lot and they're vocal about it, I'm wondering why. And so that brings us to the NHL. This was all a trick to talk about hockey. Take that. Gotcha, everybody. The NHL, October this, of, I say this year, this season, that's a sports brain for you, but like of 2023, let me step back.

0:16:43 Thomas: There are things like NHL pride nights for different teams. You know, I don't think I've actually been to one. And again, it's so little, like it's just literally the least anyone can do. I think usually what it is, is like for warmups before the game, players and entire teams will wear like a pride themed jersey and maybe use pride tape, which I realized as I'm saying that for non-hockey players might not make any sense, but hockey players tape their sticks. So it's often just a white or a black tape that goes around their stick. It's something to do with the feel. I don't know. It's literally universal, so it must, I never questioned it. And it's just something you do, or maybe it like protects the stick a little bit and gives you some feel. And also you can, you know, replace it when it gets torn up by the ice or the whatever skate.

0:17:29 Thomas: And so usually it's, you know, white or black for the most part, but in these pride nights, there'd be rainbow, there's rainbow tape, it's pride tape. And I've never thought much about any of this because again, it happens before the game. So just as a viewer, unless you go to the game, you're not, you know, maybe then you'll see it, but it's, it's not something that I've seen too much, let alone because you'd have to get there early.

0:17:50 Thomas: Imagine me successfully getting somewhere early. That's not happening. I've tried. Even the thing, just so you know, the thing I care most about in the world, which is hockey, which was San Jose Sharks hockey. I'll be like, all right, we're getting there. We're getting their own time. I'm going to watch them warm up. I love, I love watching them. Nah, it's impossible. I can't get there on time just because I can get anywhere on time, it's not happening, no amount of trying that, that helps that. It's just, anyway, I started to see certain players complain about pride stuff. So at first it seemed like it was, oh, it's the Russian players, uh, this Russian player will not take part in Pride Night or whatever. And I was like, that's weird. They're like, yeah, it's because back home, you know, their families could be in danger.

0:18:38 Thomas: I was like, well, is that true? Jeez. If that's true, I guess. Yeah. Like if it's literally a matter of danger for your family, then I mean, if that's actually true, yeah, sure. Like opt out of wearing a rainbow for 20 minutes, if that's literally going to endanger your family, and the incremental amount of pride support that you are providing versus, versus the whole team and the organization. Like, okay, yeah, that's a trade-off I could understand. I didn't look too much into it. But I was like, all right, I'm a little skeptical. Like, is somebody in Russia paying attention to the pregame warm-ups? Are they, you know, like, is someone documenting that? And they've got your family hostage, and they're like, ah, he put on the pride jersey, you're dead, family. That seems a little crazy to me.

0:19:24 Thomas: But people are pretty homophobic in certain places. So, maybe, maybe, then you had, just uh, assholes saying they didn't want to do it. And what disappointed me so much is, uh. It actually, one of the prominent ones was the San Jose Sharks goalie for a couple of years, James Reimer, who I really liked because he was a great goalie. And then the minute he said this, I was like, man, I don't enjoy you anymore. Sorry. Unfortunately, the team got rid of him. He's older anyway. Was good though. Good goalie, but yeah, he was, he's, it goes against his Christian faith to do it, and so he opted out of it. And then that's when we cut to October of 2023. There's a lot to this story that, not worth getting into. In October of 2022, they announced we're banning Pride Tape. Banning Pride Tape. It wasn't like a mandatory, by the way, it wasn't mandatory.

0:20:10 Thomas: People could not use it in the warm-up. And it's in the warm-ups. It's nothing. It's absolutely about free speech and, you know, you do you. I just, because that was all the arguments of the opting out of Pride Night. That was the first stage was, hey, I'm not stopping everyone else from doing Pride Night I just, my Christian faith means I can't do that because God said, you gay people are going to hell, which is insane to me. Then very quickly, it's like, oh, also, no, never mind. We are saying no one else can do it. We're banning Pride Night too, too controversial, too divisive. That was their reasoning for the ban. Well, you know, since some people were refusing to wear the pride stuff, we'll just ban it all together. Sure. That seems reasonable.

0:20:56 Thomas: And when I heard this, I was so mad. I was so mad because it's so stupid. It's so pointless and hateful and hypocritical and everything. I don't know what it was. Obviously, I've had a rough year, but I was just like, fuck this. And I literally, when I found out, I went to the website that sells the pride tape. I don't know if you know this, I play hockey three nights a week in the NHL, actually. No, it's terrible, beer league hockey. But I went through it and I ordered a bunch of it. And I was like, yeah, I know this is inspiring me to spend money on a company that, by the way, I actually think it is a good company. They are, it is not like, oh, they are capitalizing by making certain stuff pride. And that's no, they're like their whole deal was pride tape because they they're LGBT.

0:21:42 Thomas: Plus friendly company trying to do good. But anyway, I don't care that it was like, all right, yeah, it's getting me to spend money on a product. I don't care because we are increasingly living in a world that is more dangerous than perhaps privileged folks might realize it is for non-privileged folks. It's more dangerous than you might've thought in a lot of ways, in a lot of places for a lot of people, if you aren't paying attention. And seeing them ban that made me so mad. It made me so mad. And so I've just been using pride tape on my sticks for, you know, I don't, it's stupid. It's stupid, I thought, all right, this is kind of stupid of me. This is kind of silly. Know, I'm don't play in the NHL, no one cares. I'm just doing it because I'm mad about this dumb thing.

0:22:27 Thomas: It's so, it gets me to no end. This the fake rationale, the idea that so many of these people cry free speech, and then the moment they have the power, they're like, never mind, no free speech for you. So I was just like, I'm just doing this forever, I'll just, I'll use this pride tape forever. By the way, the pride tape, not as good quality as the normal tape, it like wears out faster. I don't give a shit, it doesn't matter. I actually end up taping my stick twice, so I put it, like a layer of the normal tape, and then I put the pride tape over it. It doesn't matter. I think it's, I don't want to bash the company. I think because the tape they make is not like specifically for hockey sticks. It's like for hockey plus other stuff. So I think like got a wider range of use than just the purely hockey stick tape that I think is made a little bit better for that purpose.

0:23:16 Thomas: But no matter, it's fine. And I was thinking it was dumb. I also, there was a second where after being in a few locker rooms and hearing a few, you know, perhaps a shitty word here and there said, I started to realize like, wait a minute, is it, am I slightly endangering myself? Like, I mean, hockey is a rough sport and people get like, there's a lot of, a lot of shitty like MAGA idiots in the league. I think it doesn't come up much, but occasionally I hear a little something expressed, you know, and I thought like, damn, am I gonna get like hit or something? Like somebody, I just had this thought of like, I didn't really think about that, but like it's not zero percent. Like people, people, you know, they could get, they could get a little extra violent where maybe they wouldn't have because they see that it's, it's a very apparent thing. And I thought like, well, OK, well shit, that's a chance to perhaps take on a slight amount of danger.

0:24:04 Thomas: Maybe not danger, but more realistically, take on the idea that I might get mocked for it or something like, Like, ah, what are you doing? The same crap I said earlier, using that tech. What do you do? Who cares? Pride, blah, blah. Getting mocked that way, or at least have people think of me a certain way. And by the way, that's the other thing that I didn't even think about that I don't know. Now that I realize it, maybe other straight dudes would have been like, I'm not doing that because people think I'm gay. And I'm proud to admit that I never thought of it.

0:24:35 Thomas: I guess it helps if you, I don't know, if you're married to a woman and have three kids, but I just never even, I didn't realize that until months later. I was like, oh, what if someone thinks I'm gay? It's like, yeah, okay. Well, then I'll take that. I'll take part of the splash damage. It wouldn't be the first time that I've been called a gay slur in an insulting way. I don't know if it has ever been because someone really thought I was gay or if they just were trying to insult me or something, but it wouldn't be the 1st time. Maybe that's absorbing, absorbing part of that homophobia, maybe that does some good for someone somewhere. I don't know. And, and, and by the way, pushing back against it, but like, who knows, maybe that's helpful somewhere. And so I was like, yeah, okay, I'll keep doing it. You know, I thought I was, I was feeling a little dumb for it. I feel a little dum for like having done this thing in this heat of like, I'm so mad about this national story, you know, the NHL.

0:25:24 Thomas: And then, I dunno, I, after thinking more, I said, nah, you know, it's not, it might be a little dramatic. I don't know. But like, why not? What harm You could it do? And any harm it could do to me or my ego from people making fun of me or something like, fucking who cares? What is that? That's nothing. So pause on my tiny part of the story and go back to the actual NHL part. Somebody, and was a player for the Coyotes, improbably there's a hockey team in Arizona, and this is a true story, is playing in like a tiny little place called Mullett Arena. It's called Mullett Arena because it's a name, someone's name, it's not like Mullet Arena, although it would be cooler if it was, and everyone hates it because it seats like no people. It's like a college ice rink.

0:26:10 Thomas: It is a whole thing. But anyway, someone on that team protested by using a little bit of pride tape, just a little bit. And I think there were a few others. Travis Dermott, it's not a player I was familiar with. I don't think he's like a big player or anything. And he said, I've been blessed to have some of those opportunities put in front of me to change my view of what being a good person means, example and model means, role going forward. You really see how people are hurting, and it's because of a system that maybe no one's intentionally trying to be malicious about, but until you've really had that first person experience, seeing people hurting from it right in front of you, it's tough to kind of take steps. Perhaps, said growing up, how awesome would it be to be the guy that people look up to? That's what really hit home when I was a kid, especially from my mom. You want to grow up and be that guy.

0:26:55 Thomas: That's so nice. Many people think that was instrumental in the NHL backing down. People think that, you know, the NHL being forced to like actually discipline someone, so suspend them or fine them for doing it, would have just looked too bad. And so they lifted it. So it was in place for about a month or less. And that's very meaningful. I find that really inspiring, that quote. And when that ban happened, I actually started questioning like, shit, how do we even have Pride Nights to begin with? You see something taken away, I guess. I anyway started thinking like, I started really appreciating what we have, like wow, how is it we've made enough progress, sports teams, professional sports teams, and let me tell you, professional hockey players, or just any hockey players, not the most leftist group of boys, not the most lefty of gentlemen, I'll just say.

0:27:51 Thomas: But all of them are into it or not, having as an organization, as an institution, having a pride night, which is, again, it's the fucking least they can do, but appreciating that that existed, you know, like, wow, that is actually pretty cool. Once that pride tape was banned, I just started thinking like, wow, it is very we have to be careful, like, progress is fragile, especially right now, the least we can do is not be cynical about it, is at least, and continue to work for it. And that's why I'm selling my line of rainbow shirt, no, I'm just kidding, no, it doesn't mean, whatever it doesn't mean, we have to spend a bunch of money on products or whatever, but like, it sure is better than not having it, for any of these things, for any things that you think is like, "Oh, that's just a virtue signaling display."

0:28:36 Thomas: Well, okay, is it better to have a bunch of that or better to have a bunch of not that? Or even is it better to have a bunch of anti that? A bunch of vice signaling, a bunch Of people signaling how much they don't like your identity and probably want harm to come to you. I think we could afford to be a little less cynical about that stuff. And so to sometime later, I actually don't remember when, I no concept of time, but I feel like it was about two months ago, maybe I want to say. I was playing hockey still using my pride tape, you know, kind of don't, don't think about it much. Part of me is like, well, maybe it's a disadvantage because you can see the puck, you know, easier on my stick. So, you Know, goalies can see what I'm doing with the puck probably easier, but black tape would be strictly speaking, probably the most advantageous, but whatever. It's marginal. It's beer league. Who cares?

0:29:22 Thomas: And so, I play with my pride tape, and first intermission. I'm just standing there and someone came up to me. And they just said kind of quietly to me, they're like, hey, thank you for using that pride tape. And I was like, like not even, my brain was not in any, I'm thinking about the game, you know what I mean, and the last thing I was thinking about, I'm so down on, like I'm so second guessing myself all the time in my mind. I'm like, this is a, I can't believe I'm still doing this. People are going to think it's dumb, but like, whatever, I still want to do it. But like, I'm sure I'm going to get some comment from someone that's like, hey, asshole, oh, you're so virtue signaling. You know, I'm sure I'm going to get that. But someone came and said, no, seriously, thank you for using that. Like, I appreciate that, especially in this place. I don't know what that meant. I hadn't, witnessed like a particular amount of homophobia or anything.

0:30:09 Thomas: However, I have witnessed people using homophobic slurs and have spoken out against it a few times. But I just didn't even think of that as a possibility. I was like, oh, wait, this dumb thing I'm doing could could actually have have a positive impact on someone. Yeah. And they said, I really appreciate it, especially around here. I don't, I don't know this person's, how they identify. I have no idea. But like, I just was just nice. And it was just a reminder that like, yeah, I don't know, maybe it does matter to somebody, you know, and it's a small gesture. Gesture, but a time when any group is under attack, what's the harm in trying to support them? And, you know, it's possible that to this audience, you are all entirely way like lefter than me on this and have, and this feeling of cynicism that I'm kind of saying we shouldn't have. It's possible.

0:30:54 Thomas: That's not resonating at all. Maybe you're all like, "What are you talking about? Why would I be cynical about pride? Pride's great." If that's true, that's awesome, but I, and that's good, but I just wanted to talk about this because I think it is common to get a certain amount of cynicism about this and to get mad at people for virtue signaling in ways that I don't think are health, it's not healthy psychologically to be mad if other people are showing or trying to show that they care about people, that's, that's not, there's something wrong, I think, if you're overly concerned with other people showing that they support people, you're, you're too on alert for trying to take others down is my honest assessment of that. It's okay to note when someone might be going a little far or something, but like if that's something that really bothers you, you either hate the group they're trying to support and you're not admitting it, or you've just got a really unhealthy psychology, and I would go to therapy if I were you.

0:31:48 Thomas: And so I don't know. I hope this was interesting. I'm glad the NHL backed down and I'm still using my slightly lower quality than normal pride tape. And I'll continue to use it. I'll order some more. Cause you know what? Fuck it, man. I may be somebody who, uh, is, is some sort of queer identity or, or by the way, maybe somebody who has a loved one who's queer, who will appreciate feeling that there's slightly more acceptance than they might've thought in a place that they didn't expect it. I mean, that's, that'S worth it. So here's me virtue signaling everybody. Um, you listen this far, uh, thank you so much. I know there's a little bit of a weird episode, but it's something I just really wanted to get off my chest, and thank you so much. It means the world to me that anyone listens to anything I say, and I hope you'll please support this show, patreon.com/seriouspod.

0:32:37 Thomas: And I really hope you will go check out Opening Arguments and be there to rebuild it and be part of the case. Like I said, it's a live controversy. Evidence is being produced and gathered all the time in the world about this. And if you want to be part of that, please do so. patreon.com/law. Thank you so much. And I'll see you soon.

0:33:16 Thomas: And what being a good father and a good