WTW31: [youth pastor voice] You Know Who Else... Hated The Woke Mind Virus

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:41 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Where There's Woke. This is episode 31. I'm your host, Thomas Smith, and we are continuing the discussion with Heath Enwright from Scathing Atheist and other shows, of course, to Christianity in order to fight Wokeism, one of the foremost evils of the world, apparently. So, uh, lots more to talk about here. I did want to make a note, of course, I think this has been a monthly tradition that there's a flurry of episodes in the end of the month here, and just want to note there's one more coming your way. It's a lot of fun, and then that's it, we're caught, that's for the year, we're caught up, no need for any placeholders or anything, we are good to go, and we are ready to start January 2024 with a full tank of gas, ready to go for Where There's Woke, with so many things on our agenda, on our whiteboard.

0:01:30 Thomas: So I'm really excited for that. Thank you so much to anyone and everyone who listens to the show, shares the show, reviews the show, and especially supports it on patreon.com/wherethereswoke. You're the reason this is happening. And there, I think there's so much more to do. I always constantly feel like we barely dipped our toes in to to this sort of anti anti-work coverage. There's so much more to do, and a lot will be happening this year. So I hope you'll come along with us. All right, I'll go back and rewind a little bit just to give you a hint of context for this part two, where the conversation left off. But here you go, back with Heath Enwright and Lydia Smith, of course, talking about Ayaan Hirsi Ali's conversion to Christianity in order to fight the woke.

0:02:11 Heath: She she's describing all the problems with Islam like another like like getting to heaven. It can be used to manipulate people. But with Christianity, it's the next paragraph.

0:02:19 Lydia: My God.

0:02:20 Heath: Like, it's so much of that, yeah.

0:02:19 Thomas: That fucking Bizarre. Are, well, um, once again, under the theory that this is not new and this was inevitable, would you like me to play a clip from 2011, Heath, that uh has strong uh, strong uh implications, or or shows the roots of that very thing you're talking about? 2011.

0:02:36 Heath: Please.

0:02:38 Thomas: Here's a uh video that I came across, and I think the title will kind of say it all. This is from 12 years ago, Ayaan Hirsi Ali on converting Muslims to Christianity. So this, I think this is from a question from the audience, actually, if I have this right.

0:02:56 Clip: Your book, you suggest that Christian organizations are heading to Muslim communities and evangelize. Given that most of the Christian organizations that do evangelize are pretty fundamentalist, wouldn't you just be replacing one fundamentalist ideology with another? I Like the applause. And I want to challenge those people who are applauding, how they think that they can challenge radical Islam in schools, in Muslim centers, you know, how can we win the hearts and minds of those 1.57 billion people to believe in something else other than what the radical Muslims are proselytizing, because they are winning the arguments and they're working hard to do it. And yes, there are Christians who are radical, they are Christians, I wouldn't say just as, because they're absolutely not as violent, but intolerant and narrow in their thinking. But that is not the Christianity that I have seen. I know that

0:03:13 Thomas: A great question.

0:03:13 Heath: Would

0:03:15 Lydia: Yeah.

0:04:02 Thomas: Hmm.

0:04:02 Clip: There is also established Christianity. I had lunch this afternoon with Bishop Rob Forsyth, and

0:04:09 Thomas: Okay. Who the fuck is that? And why are you randomly having lunch with a bishop? Was one thing I wrote down. Like, what? I just happened to have lunch with the bishop. Is that a thing you do a lot? How many lunches with bishops have you guys had that I should know about? Weird. Like, I don't want to get too conspiratorial, but it's like, fucking what?

0:04:23 Lydia: Lot, actually. No, I'm just kidding. Zero. Yeah?

0:04:24 Heath: I've

0:04:29 Clip: The Christianity that he represents, the Christianity, that many people like him represent today is dormant. They are not going after that demography. They They are not challenging the principles and the premises of the radical Islamists. And many people within that demography radical

0:04:42 Thomas: This is so good.

0:04:51 Heath: Always said that American Christianity it's uh, dormant, I would say that's the word I would use for it

0:04:55 Thomas: Yeah. First off, what is that word? Christianity. I haven't heard of that. Define it, because that's definitely not anything I've heard of. Sure, historians might recall what that is, but it's laid dormant for generations, eons in America.

0:04:57 Lydia: Oh,

0:05:01 Heath: Yeah

0:05:11 Clip: Islamist, and many people within that demographic do not want to become atheists. That is a reality I've come to accept. So given that fact, there would be nothing wrong, and in fact everything right, and maybe a better alternative to military wars, to bombings and law enforcement officials, to compete for the hearts and minds of those 1.57 billion people in every way we can. The Christian churches, the Catholic churches and the Protestant churches, the moderate ones, are already established and know how to do that. They're just being intimidated either by by the PC people or people like you who think that they're all radical. And I think that we should stop doing that.

0:05:46 Thomas: This is the good stuff. Hey. Yeah yeah

0:05:56 Lydia: My God? Wow.

0:05:58 Heath: And they've been, you know, they're dormant, so like they only come out every 17 years like the cicadas, and then like then they can do a little bit of ChristianITY and then they

0:06:06 Thomas: I think you yeah You have to get like a chemical, was it reagent or whatever, like you have today, it's there, it's totally inert right now, and then if you we scratch and sniff a little bit on the Christians, they're like, "Oh, I'm awake, what do I do, and they're not, can you help with the Muslims?" I guess I don't, like, yeah, being intimidated by the PC people.

Again, I I said 12 years ago, that's when this video was uploaded, it's actually from 2010, so it's like 13 years ago, but, but yeah, this is like everything at the time, that mindset at the time was Islam is the biggest problem in the fucking planet. And whatever we can do to stop it is fine.

You know, like that really was the mindset, and we can trace the, the the, journey, like my grand theory of what happened with the atheist movement is it went from Islam is the biggest program ever, you know, and then also there's a lot of anti, yeah, like making fun of Christianity, there's a lot, you know, of This is this is a broad, um, trend, like obviously there are legitimate things within all these things, but like the broad trend was Islam is the biggest problem, the worst religion, and the fucking left is stopping us from telling you the truth about that, because they are, as much as at this time, like 2006, seven, seven, eight, nine, this time, they're like, as much as I'm a liberal, as much as I'm a Democrat, I don't, I'm starting to worry that the left is too PC to allow us to call out every single Muslim for being the same person, like and

0:06:08 Heath: Right

0:07:35 Thomas: So then, broadly, that shifted a lot of the focus and, you know, there's also the anti-feminism component that, that's a big, you you know, thread within that, but that shifted the focus over time from fuck Islam, fuck Islam to like, fuck the left, fuck, the left fuck. Like, you know, like, and it was this general transition that started with like the left won't let us criticize Islam. And also the, there's that, that thread of atheists who are super anti-feminist, and that was also fine. They would love to bash the left as well, cause that's typically where the feminists are. And it just over time then that became the new Islam, like they've they've replaced their bad guy that was Islam with the woke

0:07:35 Heath: With I can't say slur

0:08:15 Thomas: Yeah

0:08:16 Heath: Words when I want like that. Yeah. It's a weird transition.

0:08:17 Thomas: To the point where she is not only converting to Christianity, there's also Richard Dawkins is like in love, we covered him on here, like he's in love with with the Christians, there's components of the essay obviously that show this, but there's also what I love, are the atheists like my favorite, Jerry uh Coin, that piece of shit, and Richard Dawkins and others who have to try to criticize Ion for this but are also completely on board with every single other part of what she's saying, except the Jesus part really interesting

0:08:51 Heath: Right.

0:08:25 Lydia: Yeah, exactly. Right, right. Except that they're not willing to call themselves a Christian, but they're totally on board that the you, woke mind virus, right, has completely infiltrated the country and the world, and know, we're all doomed kind of thing.

0:08:53 Thomas: Yeah

0:09:03 Heath: So they took just that. They're not going to talk about like, you know, climate change being a problem or like nuclear proliferation. Just the woke thing. Yeah,

0:09:12 Thomas: So I know I spun out a little bit on all those things that were so much fun, but why don't we get back through her essay and talk a little bit more about the ironclad proof of Jesus's resurrection that she has.

0:09:24 Heath: It's such a weird leap.

0:09:25 Lydia: I I wrote down, you one of the quotes that I think is really, maybe maybe where she's coming from, again, I'm so confused by her, just in all in phases of her life, like what is happening at any given time, um, but she wrote, "I but we can't fight off these formidable forces unless we can answer the question, what what is it that unites us," and later on she says, "I've also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable, indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question, what is the meaning and purpose of life?"

0:09:33 Thomas: Mm-hmm.

0:10:00 Thomas: That's a classic. I'm sure, Heath, you've come across this pro-religion argument.

0:10:05 Heath: Yeah, it is pretty ridiculous. Atheism is in its simplest form just a claim about something not Not exactly that. There's like a tangent there, maybe. But as an atheist, you can then, you know, think about that philosophically for sure. You just don't land on the Christian God as Ayaan Hirsi Ali has done.

0:10:22 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah! Yeah. No, I need an all-powerful magic thing.

0:10:38 Lydia: Just like, nah, God. I want to go to church on Sundays.

0:10:43 Thomas: Yeah, it's crazy. Crazy.

0:10:44 Lydia: Yeah.

0:10:45 Heath: So one of The other points she made is that, and we started to talk about it a little bit, she makes the point that Islam is scarier for an apostate than Christianity right now. And Yeah, but like that, the argument is it's basically like eating five shit sandwiches is better than eating 10, but the answer is zero. And like you were there for a bunch of years and now you're like, "Maybe I'll try five," because maybe that's, it's a medium ground answer, that's perfect for shit sandwiches so weird whole thing. I mean, at its core, this is a weird regression progression about philosophy and about epistemology that happened in her head. And she wrote this essay about it. And she has to draw these lines between Christianity and Islam. And it never works. There are ways to draw some lines, but she doesn't even get to the good ones. She does insane ones. Oh,

0:10:54 Thomas: Sure. Yeah.

0:11:11 Lydia: Yeah, exactly.

0:11:12 Thomas: It's incredible.

0:11:35 Thomas: Yeah, I might be skipping too far ahead, but one of her conclusory paragraphs here that I think drives it home, for one, there's this quote: "When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything." It's like, no, yeah.

0:11:50 Heath: Yeah. It was a G.K. Chesterton quote, right? Yeah, yeah, sure.

0:11:52 Thomas: Chesterton yeah. Yeah, again, you were, were you not paying attention in class? I, on we, were arguing against all this shit when Christians were doing these apologetics. Here's what's funny, her, you, best friend Christopher Hitchens, I'm sure had, a I bet you could find a Hitch slap of Hitchens dealing with exactly this bullshit quote, like precisely this quote. I'm surer was delivered to Hitchens and he probably made a mockery of it. And yet here she is, like, no, man, I don't believe in anything, what are you talking about, how did, why would, why would that follow.

0:12:21 Heath: Yeah, no, the quote's ridiculous. It's basically saying when people stop believing in God and become, you know, skeptical, then they're capable of believing anything. Like the end of her sentences might as well like wrap around and cross out the beginning of her sentence. Is just a blank essay of crossouts.

0:12:30 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, wait, could I become Christian again?

0:12:45 Lydia: That's what I was going to say.

0:12:45 Thomas: Yeah, I've stopped believing God. I can believe in anything, including God. Oh, shit. I'm stuck in a loop. Damn it. But the paragraph after that was actually what I was going to read, which is, in this nihilistic vacuum, the challenge before us becomes civilizational. We can't withstand China, Russia, and Iran if we can't explain to our population why it matters that we do.

0:13:07 Heath: Also, the wokes, China, Russia, Iran and some some liberal college kids are fighting. We need a rallying cry.

0:13:09 Thomas: Yeah, we can. Yeah, exactly. I want to

0:13:10 Lydia: Yeah man.

0:13:15 Heath: I

0:13:15 Thomas: Continue, but pausing on that sentence, do you think it is a major problem? Just think of humans in general. Do you think its a major challenge to explain to them why it's important that, you know, they survive? Like, is that like a challenge? We're like, man, okay, we need to resist the oppression that is upon us. And then a bunch of the crowd that is assembled is like, yeah, but don't, why why don't we all just die? Like, that's what I'm feeling.

0:13:42 Heath: Was thinking of killing myself. Do you ever rally and cry to deal with that? No.

0:13:44 Thomas: Do you Have like any, like Jesus or something that you can rub on that for me to stop wanting to kill myself? Like that's not an, like humans in general, look, there's a, there's some depressed people here or there that don't care about life, but as a group, like as a whole, are we worried that humans are like too prone to not caring about their own survival or is it the exact fucking opposite? Is it like, wow, I'm amazed at how much a group of humans, like, I don't know, Qafs, Palestinians, for example, will go through and still have that drive to try to like persevere despite the worst possible conditions and, you, like life expectancies and like all these reasons why you would think there would be nothing but despair. And yet there isn't, it's yeah

0:14:28 Heath: A lot of those people with that you coughed and said they have the wrong name for God and they still do that and they're still thrive They're still willing to survive.

0:14:33 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. It's just like that's not a challenge, that isn't a problem.

0:14:39 Lydia: I'm just, in you, my head, this might be a bad take. You guys, let, let me know, um, but just kind of watching, man, some of this, I, I kind of understand as a perpetual people pleaser, um, again trying to fight that, root for me everybody, but some, some things that I, I see here, I'm almost wondering if she doesn't actually have her own thoughts and beliefs. I mean, like, because, because I'll just say, like she specifically said, you Muslim Brotherhood came in, she was sympathetic to what they were saying.

0:15:05 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:15:13 Lydia: She joined up, then, you Know, something happened and then she kind of changed her stance and then She was this anti-immigration MP right after immigrating.

0:15:21 Thomas: And Then she Instantly Was A right-wing member of A Parliament in A thing and Then was instantly with these right-wang fucking people in their institute. Yeah, so.

0:15:24 Heath: Oh.

0:15:24 Lydia: Right right and I just, you know, she's like super like atheist. But it's because she was adopted by the four horsemen basically right Like, so I just, I, there's part of me that feels like she's very, very smart, and she can speak to things very, very well, I think, you, um, know, I don't agree with anything that she's saying, but like, you know, if you do, then She, she sounds very smart. So I feel like she might not actually have her own thoughts and beliefs as they stand, but she can formulate an argument around something that she's adopted from somebody else. I don't know.

0:15:34 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right.

0:16:02 Lydia: Is that a bad take?

0:16:02 Heath: Certainly she's she's an intel no I think that's correct, she's a very intelligent person is the impression I get, and yeah, that's uh, kind a dangerous thing about being a very intelligentperson she's able to form arguments for things that aren't good or true. Yeah, absolutely.

0:16:16 Thomas: Well, I And maybe that's why that quote appeals to her at all, because I hear that and I'm like, that's fucking stupid. But I don't know, maybe she's if she resonates with that. Well it's like, yeah, if I don't believe in God, what am I going to believe in? Then like, maybe that is why she she's gone from thing to thing here. Kind I think for her, her one certainty is that she hates Islam. I think that's number one. And like, Like yeah, I mean, given her personal experience, I get why that is something she would hate, but that is motivated her more than anything.

And then it's been about finding where that can be best represented. I think it's. So I would say I not I don't quite agree with the like she doesn't have her own belief. I think that's her overarching belief. And then everything else is like, how do I best fight Islam? You know, like how do I best continue to that grudge and like and I get it, you know, but I think it's just so clearly shows all these biases in that she can't differentiate at all. But I want to continue that paragraph. Quote, fight woke we ideology if we can't defend the civilization that it is determined to destroy.

0:16:26 Lydia: Yeah. Yeah.

0:17:19 Lydia: She has some thoughts about about what woke even is. You know, there's an article from 2022 where she starts kind of listing out, what woke is calling people to do.

0:17:30 Thomas: Yeah, I know that this is just taken as a given among the anti-woke that we want to destroy Western civilization. But now I find myself wondering, when did we decide that? What is the proof of that?

0:17:41 Heath: Oh,

0:17:41 Lydia: Well, okay. So she says in her list of things that the demands from the woke mob, yeah,

0:17:45 Thomas: Okay. Oh, Oh, this will help. Cool. Yeah. I mean, I wrote this, so I should remember. But like, yeah.

0:17:47 Heath: OK.

0:17:48 Lydia: Yes, Yes, exactly. You are the primary author. Ideal such as merit it and colorblindness are either misleading or utterly meaningless, um, She's saying this

0:17:57 Thomas: Wait, sorry. What? So. Oh, so the woke

0:17:59 Heath: Woke is claiming that. Yeah. According to her.

0:18:00 Thomas: Believe those

0:18:01 Lydia: Is the woke what the woke believe, and what they call on everyone to then believe as well, otherwise, you you're a horrible human being and we cast you out of society. Yeah.

0:18:11 Thomas: Are just a weird two things to tie together. So merit. OK, I think that. Yeah, obviously, you know, it goes back to the bullshit she said to that guy who's my new hero, who's like, where'd you learn this fucking crap where she's like you have rags to riches. And then people who have read a single book are like, that doesn't seem to be the case, actually. If you look at the fucking, what is it, the Ginny coefficient? What the fucking is that? Yeah.

0:18:22 Lydia: Yeah.

0:18:33 Heath: Yeah yeah yeah.

0:18:35 Thomas: Yeah. He's the kind of guy who knows exactly what I'm talking about. You look at that coefficient, you look the actual metrics and it's like, no, actually, the best place to live for the American dream is the fucking Netherlands, probably. Who knows?

0:18:35 Heath: Measure of inequality. Mm hmm.

0:18:46 Lydia: Yeah.

0:18:46 Thomas: Like it might be what it's not America. It's nowhere near America. And. So I guess that's part of it. It's taking that as our rejection of this fake fantasy that is rags to riches and pointing to actual data that suggests, no, that doesn't really happen much. Like you can find examples but

0:18:48 Lydia: Yeah. Yep.

0:19:01 Heath: Yeah starting point is huge and merit is way less than we think. Yes, that is true and provable.

0:19:03 Thomas: Yeah but that means we want to get rid of you know those columns that are in the front of buildings the woke want to smash those and get rid of Western civilization, I hate those fucking columns man

0:19:16 Lydia: Uh.

0:19:16 Heath: Yeah. What is the end game that people are picturing when they say shit like that, it's just like a post-apocalyptic hellscape and then like 10 college woke nerds emerge from the ground and they're like, haha, nailed it all. Right now we can have perfect equality for the 10 of us. I don't understand

0:19:18 Thomas: Yeah yeah yeah no

0:19:36 Lydia: See, individuals exist only as members of certain tribes defined by unchosen traits and divided by power privilege and victimhood all people are either oppressed or oppressors depending on group identity omnipresent racism is suffocating the United States. Um, let's see capitalism but

0:19:40 Thomas: One believes that no one believe that no one belives that it's fucking stupid. No no one beliefs that oh Okay. Okay. Well, I do believe that. Yeah, sure. You got one. She nailed one. No, I guess we'll give her the merit thing too. Like I do. I mean, I believe that merit kind of exists, but I just don't, I don't. So that's a half credit.

0:19:55 Heath: Okay also

0:20:02 Lydia: But no one calls it misleading or meaningless. Really, right? It's that merit, merit, it's tied to these systemic um structures as well, and in order to properly evaluate merit, we need to consider that. Okay.

0:20:06 Thomas: Maybe. Yeah. Tell you what, we're trying to grade this quiz that she took on what the woke believe. And if she's saying, oh yeah, the woke believe there's no such thing as a meritocracy in the United States, then yes, I don't believe believe the United States is a meritocracy, largely speaking. So, okay. We'll give her possibly, yeah.

0:20:31 Lydia: All right yeah

0:20:31 Heath: It's not it's like a belief, it's true yeah I'll

0:20:35 Lydia: Yep.

0:20:33 Thomas: Yeah. It just isn't. Yeah, so we'll give her one point for that, and then a bunch of other bullshit that no one believes, she said, so it's fail, fail, fail, but then she had one that we did believe. What was that last one?

0:20:40 Lydia: Uh. Racism is suffocating the United states

0:20:44 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, no, I do believe that. Yep, okay, two out of whatever.

0:20:47 Heath: Give her a point, yeah.

0:20:46 Lydia: Uh capitalism is a system of white supremacy and racial domination, which should be replaced with some form of socialism or communism Abram

0:20:55 Thomas: Okay that's interesting, because I do think that there are people who believe that, I will give her her credit that that's a belief that people way on the left have. I, for one, don't believe that capitalism is necessarily white supremacist. I don't think that's just logically speaking true. I think historically you could probably point to evidence for that. Yeah, but I think that comes from like maybe Ibrham Kendi, I remember reading "Stamped from the Beginning," and I think a lot of that the might be where that angle is coming from. So I'll give her credit for that. I personally think that's going a little too far. I think honestly, capitalism is a fucking economic system that any group of people could take up and has, and it's not like necessarily related to white supremacy, but

0:21:01 Heath: Some yeah some people be approximately that yeah no whatever

0:21:32 Thomas: Historically, like, yeah, sure. We'll give her credit for that, you but also I don't know that the second part is necessarily true. I think that's, once again, taking the biggest, broadest brush, applying it to the woke and saying, and the woke want all of capitalism to be replaced by a bartering system. Them. It's like, yeah, I don't, I don't know. Do they, maybe some of them do, but like we again, The way that the status quo defends itself is by casting any possible change as the end of the fucking universe forever.

And it's like, yeah, I might personally believe, I, who knows where I am in terms of economics. Really? I don't think I'm like a communist. I don't think I'm quite a socialist, but I'm somewhere in the spectrum of like way further left, but I'll you what, I'm not in charge of instantly setting the dial of where we are and nobody is. You can have a bunch of people in a group who are like, hey, capitalism sucks, capitalism sucks, and the end result of that might be if they somehow achieve any modicum of power that we turn the dial slightly left, like

0:21:33 Heath: Group has the best starting point it is going to do the best in it, and it doesn't have to be any particular race. No,

0:21:56 Lydia: Some of them are into that, yeah, right.

0:22:39 Lydia: Right

0:22:39 Thomas: Someone gets like another thousand bucks and a child tax credit like that's that's what really happens but she has to be like no, they're going to replace the entire economic system overnight. How? How are we doing that?

0:22:39 Heath: Right no absolutely not

0:22:42 Lydia: Yeah we can't even like pilot UBI, right?

0:22:52 Thomas: Yeah.

0:22:52 Heath: Yeah, exactly. No, if you doing honest appraise all of the left in the United States or even in the world, they honestly look at the country they want. Capitalism with a lot of reined in socialist type policies that make it reasonable for everybody to survive in capitalism at a reasonable base place and above just look at world, that's what most countries are

0:23:05 Thomas: Nope.

0:23:10 Lydia: Uh the nuclear family is toxic and must be replaced by the form of communal child rearing, isn't

0:23:18 Thomas: No one fucking thinks that. I'm sure you can find a tweet or a book from the 60s or some shit, but I'm sorry, that's not representative of, and that's the key. For a lot of these things, you can fine a person probably, or two, or maybe a few more, but then it always comes back to vilifying the woke. And then when convenient, The quote unquote woke becomes like all of Democrats, too. That's the substitution that goes on. It's very useful to these people because it allows them to keep the right motivated and to keep, you know, people going to the polls and, you Know, all that kind of stuff to keep up that eternal conflict, that quasi religious eternal conflict between good and evil. But when you look at some of these complaints, it's like, all right, do you mean to to tell me that Joe Biden thinks the nuclear family should be obliterated and replaced with communal child rearing? Like, do you really mean to tell Me that a single person on the left in political power anywhere actually believes

0:23:26 Lydia: That crazy, yeah. Yeah.

0:24:17 Lydia: Yeah.

0:24:17 Thomas: That? No. You found that in some radical fucking something somewhere, and then you get to just paint the entire left with that brush when convenient. And if I say that's bullshit, you say, no, look at this link to this tweet where somebody Nobody said that once. It's like, no, that's not valid. Sorry.

0:24:34 Heath: Well I'm gonna give her a point for that one, I actually, I actually You get a point from me. I, on, like, I, I do think we should have a more communal look at what the family looks like. Like, you know, it takes a village. That's a good concept.

0:24:48 Lydia: But so do homesteading people, right? Like, you know, you think about people who are pretty conservative and they end up homeschooling, like, you know, they all get together and they all help rear their children in a particular way. What?

0:24:59 Thomas: Can you reread the quote? Because we have to actually grade Heath what was on the quiz. You know, you don't get to just look at the actual. If you're grading a calculus test you don't get to be like, yeah, the vibe of the problem was fine.

0:25:00 Lydia: Yes.

0:25:03 Heath: Oh, okay. Okay.

0:25:11 Lydia: Family is toxic and must be replaced with a form of communal child rearing

0:25:15 Thomas: Must be replaced with a form of so that sounds pretty mandatory to me, like everybody, no one's a day one of me in charge as a wokist, no one has a nuclear family anymore

0:25:16 Lydia: Right

0:25:26 Heath: I would like to take most children away from most parents. Yes, that is something I agree with. I don't think they're doing a good job.

0:25:31 Thomas: All right so they got heath

0:25:32 Heath: Present company excluded.

0:25:33 Thomas: All right so he still gets a point, I guess, or gives her a point for that one. Are there any more zingers for what we believe

0:25:33 Lydia: And um But yeah, this article is incredible, and, you know, I won't go into it too much, but just you uh know I um, oh, well, this one: educational and legal systems can never be racially neutral and that they should be used as tools for quote, social justice, against alleged, quote, systemic racism. Okay.

0:25:54 Thomas: Yeah, I think that's a point. I'll give her a point for that. Right. I mean, I Think it's stating it in a little more of a conspiratorial tone than I would like. It's more like we don't want to use it as a tool. It's More like, yeah, we want actual facts to be taught. And those facts, when you learn real facts, you actually become more left because because that's how the world works. And so in that way, from her view, it's like they're using the education system to whatever. It's like, all right, I disagree with the conspiratorial language there, but I think she gets a point because I do want to do that. There is no such thing as a, quote,

0:25:57 Lydia: Okay. Yeah. Alleged systemic racism. And

0:25:58 Heath: Yeah, sure.

0:26:28 Thomas: Racially neutral education. That's fucking stupid.

0:26:31 Heath: But the end of her thought was they're using it for justice. And yes, like, I want societal institutions to support justice. That is a thing I definitely want, like all of them. That's what society kind of is to me, even as an atheist where I don't have a rallying cry or any reason to live. Yeah, I

0:26:41 Lydia: Yeah, yep.

0:26:47 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah,

0:26:49 Lydia: Students at a very young age must be made aware of racial differences. In particular, white students need to be alerted to their privilege, supposedly a collective attribute of their race. Privilege in quotes. Yeah I know.

0:27:00 Thomas: Can just Just, I, we've, I'm, that one's

0:27:03 Lydia: No, so she,

0:27:03 Thomas: Too far along the fucking Florida, the DeSantis.

0:27:06 Heath: Think that's an N slash A. You can't even grade that. That's nothing.

0:27:08 Lydia: But This article goes on forever. She's like super anti-DEI, obviously. She's saying corporations are to blame for this too, because they're standing up DEI efforts, academic institutions also. And then she says, even medicine is not immune. One kidney specialist, Dr. Stanley Goldfarb observed and talks about Dr. dr stanley goldfarb and never mentions do no harm and his anti-trans you gender ideology is the devil position like that's never brought up at all just just a kidney specialist yep

0:27:34 Thomas: Oh yeah. He's just referenced as a medical expert or something. What is his, what, how, what does she say that he says? The kidneys are too woke?

0:27:47 Lydia: Hospitals state health authorities and the federal government have all authorized race-based formulas for rationing COVID treatments. Yeah.

0:27:52 Thomas: Oh yeah, that's right. That's right, yeah. They haven't, but yeah, okay.

0:27:56 Lydia: Medical schools increasingly

0:27:57 Thomas: We covered that in something. I can't remember what.

0:27:59 Lydia: Are preparing physicians for social activism at the expense of medical science. So this is a very Sally Sattel, you know, kind of position.

0:28:04 Thomas: Yeah, yeah! Oh, that where I, yeah yeah yeah! Okay. I think that's when we talked about this. Yeah. They're not even teaching medicine anymore. They're just teaching woke-ism. It's like, really? Cause I, yeah, there is no more pancreas. We're replacing that with the following woke agenda.

0:28:12 Heath: They were like, we're canceling right leg and we're doing critical race theory in med school. OK, relax.

0:28:07 Lydia: Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yep, yep. Yeah she's been involved with Foundation Against Intolerance and Racism. She served on their board for a while. That's the one that sounds good, but isn't. That's like Christopher Rufo was involved with them. Sally Sattel was also involved with them, but yeah. Some zingers.

0:28:34 Thomas: Yeah, so I got to play a little bit of, there's so much, I don't think we're going to be able to go on too much longer for time with our our lovely guest. Thank you for giving us so much of your time. But I do want to play, cause uh, my first impulse, I actually misremembered when I first heard this, I was like, "Oh, did her husband finally convert her?" But I had misremembered my right-wing assholes.

I thought she was married to a different right-wing asshole who was like super Christian, but, but she, she isn't actually, her husband this whole time has apparently not been Christian, Christian I guess but has been right-wing obviously and so then Lydia, that and I were even more confused, like, wait, what, where's this coming from, but so I was wondering, I was one of the questions I was trying to ask, is like, what has he been secretly Christian, or has, you know, because it, look, it's not a sexist thing if she can't have her own beliefs or something, read her fucking essay, her essay reads as, "I don't believe any of this shit but I'm gonna be a Christian," like that's what it really reads as, there's no real reason she's not, like, "Jesus, and the evidence is Jesus was on the cross." No, she's just like, "Well, I guess, I don't know." Like that, that reads to me as someone who's being converted and is trying to make peace with it.

You know, like, "Ah, it's probably better for all, Christian maybe, so I guess I'll believe this." But I saw, I came across this little nugget in a video that I would like to share, this is great. This is something called the

0:29:07 Lydia: Yeah. No

0:29:54 Thomas: Alliance for Responsible Citizenship YouTube channel. Is this an organization that we've tracked?

0:30:00 Lydia: No, I don't think so.

0:30:01 Thomas: This this is a panel discussion are you ready for this panel it is Jordan Peterson, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, just someone named John Anderson and someone Os named Guinness and those are just some old crusty white Christians that I don't recognize uh it could be Australian possibly uh this is something I saw a couple memes of, but I didn't know where it came from. Peterson seems to be wearing like a Harvey Two-Face costume now. Is that his name from the Batman thing? Here, let me show you

0:30:02 Heath: I bet it's irresponsible.

0:30:31 Heath: Harvey Dent. Yeah,

0:30:33 Thomas: I got to send it into the chat now. I'm gonna put some time on the clock. I am going as quickly as you can. What is this?

0:30:46 Heath: I just immediately turned it on. He literally does have a two-toned, bisected down the y-axis, colored suit so he's trying to, I'm assuming, because it's red and blue, he's saying to say that, like, I'm a reasonable moderate. That's what I'm gonna assume. And I also see his dying face, which doesn't help at all. No, he

0:30:54 Thomas: Yeah. What? I Yeah. Yep. I don't know what that's about, but anyway, he's like the moderator of it, which is, you know, like I don'T, I haven't watched the whole video, so I don't know how many times he just starts crying. Look, as a guy who cries a lot, I look at Jordan Piers and I'm like, dude, come on, man, keep it together.

0:31:24 Heath: Usually comes in hot already crying cold open. Yeah. Oh,

0:31:25 Thomas: Yeah, Yeah. And so the end of this video, though, is the important thing. It's closing remarks. And it has some, I think, key information.

0:31:35 Heath: God. I love that he clearly went to a tailor and made them do this, and they were like, God, are you doing, like, are you being a mediator for some bullshit argument that both sides are completely wrong, but you're gonna try to claim you're the middle. Yeah.

0:31:45 Thomas: Oh, Heath, poor, gentle, naive Heath. People would never have on someone from the left to represent anything. I, it's not a debate. I just don't want people to get the impression that this was some debate between left and right that he is moderating. That, that's just a suit, man. These are just all right wing nutjobs. It's entirely a right wing nutjob collection

0:31:53 Heath: Of course not. Hey, man

0:32:03 Lydia: Oh my gosh, yeah board members include Dan Crenshaw, Mike Johnson, Mike Lee, Michael Schellenberger, San Francisco, uh, yeah, Vivek Ramaswamy. Yeah

0:32:11 Thomas: Ooh oh my god

0:32:16 Heath: Are you gonna try and mediate like a thing in Charlottesville? He's like, no, no, no, I'm actually just gonna stand on the one side that, uh, probably murders somebody with a car, but like, I still want the the two-tone suit

0:32:24 Thomas: But but he didn't commit to the bit with the pants. I'm just now seeing. Yeah.

0:32:30 Lydia: Oh it's just the coat. Yeah.

0:32:30 Thomas: Like, okay, the left, his left is blue, his right is red, of his jacket. The pants are just red, man. You're giving away the game. I need one left blue pant leg and the other right, the fuck yeah. I don't even know that that's what he's going for actually don't

0:32:42 Lydia: He's 75%. Yeah. GOP and yeah

0:32:46 Heath: His pants are just made of a prism that has all the colors I'm

0:32:51 Lydia: Yeah

0:32:51 Thomas: Oh, this was revealing. It's the closing remarks, and Jordan Peterson sets up, uh, Ion here.

0:32:58 Clip: Close with you, if you don't mind. So you, early in your life, relatively early in you life, you moved away from a totalizing religious view of the world, and I don't exactly know into what you then moved, whether that was a secular humanism, but what I'm hearing from you now, and and I believe this is also the case with your husband, is that you you have come to to a new understanding of the existence of the transcendent per se, and also of your relationship with it now. First of all, do I have that right, and second of all, like, is that, is that the movement that you have made, and if so, why? So I rebelled against a transcendent, a concept of God, of a God that now manifests itself in, you know, the Iranian regime, Hamas, Isis. That was the God I grew up with. That was the story that I grew with. I rebelled against that, and then when I was bold enough to say, and this was in the Netherlands, I, I don't want any of that. I didn't convert to Christianity, I didn't convert to another religion or another God.

0:33:25 Thomas: There, it is her husband is converting with her, I guess, so

0:34:20 Clip: I carried with me this idea, you know, the three-letter word of God stands just for evil. And my best friends became Sam Harris and Christopher Hutchins and Richard Dawkins. These are people I still love and adore. And I think, over time, I'm now 53, and so when I made this, when I was in this state of rebellion, it started for me when I started two years old. Over time, I've come to realize, and I wish Christopher was alive today to comment on what we're going through was we were actually having a conversation about, in my view, the wrong conversation. Does God exist? You know, it was the world built in six days? Do we believe in fairy tales. And that was the wrong conversation to have. The right conversation to help, as I said earlier, was to compare what we as human beings, the transcendent that we have imagined and developed over centuries. And so now I can say I am proudly of Judeo-Christian religion with

0:34:54 Thomas: You'd be Christian with me.

0:34:55 Lydia: Yeah

0:35:06 Thomas: That's and notice even that she tries to sidestep, they're like, look, it's, let's not keep track of who killed who or whatever, it's not to keep track at who died and created the world in 68 with all that stuff, um, I'm just a Christian for the not stupid things or whatever, and she, uh, goes on to say, actually, I forgot, I cut it off, she goes on that Richard Dawkins is the most Christian man I know, because she's like, oh, it's not about whether you believe these bullshit propositions, it's about, you how Western, Western civilization you are, essentially. And so Dawkins is not a fan of that. I was, I was thinking we'd go more into that, but maybe it's, you know, we're out of time. So let it suffice to say the response is, ah, but no, you have to pay attention to the world being created in six days, like, that. It does matter.

0:36:17 Thomas: But anyway, also, yeah, wokeness is ruining the whole world. And And yes, let's keep, hating trans people. Uh, God bless. No.

0:36:24 Heath: Yeah, can I give her one more point for one thing, but then I'm going to take it away. Don't worry. So sure, she's trying to make the general point that, like, okay, okay, radical Islam is bad, I have terrible experiences with it, I want the world to fight against that, and, like, okay, all right, so as a strategy, she's saying the important lesson I learned from from radical Islam during my experience with it is definitely use religion stuff to motivate people. So strategy wise, like I understand why she's saying that, but that's bad. And also the next thing she says, you know, in her general idea is, okay, so Christianity, definitely that one, that one's perfect. That's basically the end of her essay. That was like the last paragraph was basically what I just said.

0:36:26 Thomas: Hmm. Okay. Sure. Yeah.

0:36:27 Lydia: It's

0:37:04 Thomas: You said. Yeah. Actually, just to bolster your point, Heath, I'll read the last two paragraphs real quick. That's where she says that the lesson I learned from my years with the Muslim Brotherhood was the power of a unifying story embedded in the foundational texts of Islam to attract, engage, and mobilize the Muslim masses. Unless we offer something as meaningful, I fear the erosion of our civilization will continue. And, and fortunately, this is fantastic. Guys, look at this. There's no need to look for some new age concoction of medication and mindfulness. Christianity has it all.

0:37:09 Heath: Sure. Wow.

0:37:38 Thomas: Yeah, we've had it this whole time.

0:37:37 Lydia: Been lying dormant this whole time yeah

0:37:39 Heath: We need old age magical bullshit, not new age magical shit. Christianity has it all.

0:37:44 Thomas: And she says, that is why I no longer consider myself a Muslim apostate, but a lapsed atheist. I still of have a great deal to learn about Christianity. I discover a little more at church each Sunday. But I have recognized in my own long journey through wilderness of fear and self-doubt that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer. That's the end. I and just want to be like, don't you know about like there are moderate Muslims and look at like Qatar or like look at the Emirates. Like there are places where she keeps pointing to Iran, which is like, yeah, OK, that's a pretty fundamentalist.

0:38:09 Lydia: Yeah

0:38:20 Heath: Maybe look at the United States where there are Muslim people and you are here. Take a look. There you go.

0:38:22 Lydia: Western

0:38:20 Thomas: Right but but in looking at those even like more moderate muslim majority countries, is the way that they got out of a more fundamentalist belief because they had Christianity, or or is it more that like, honestly, socioeconomic conditions, how much the U.S. has come in and completely fucked with your entire country, uh, and drawn the map lines for you. It's not just the U.S., like, fucking all of the, well, there you go. Western civilization how much have they completely ruined your fucking country, like, that's the determining factor more when it comes to Muslim violence and terrorist groups and all that. It is not that they had a better story to we, we don't need to come at them with a better fairy tale. It's not about that at all. Like, it's just about tendencies and conditions that create radical.

0:38:54 Lydia: Civilization, yeah human

0:38:55 Heath: Yeah yeah

0:39:16 Thomas: Yeah. That create like radical behavior, terrorist behavior, largely it's broader conditions that are the key there. And you can see that because there there, are moderate Muslims and they're, they didn't get that way by being Christians just definitionally

0:39:15 Lydia: Behavior well, you

0:39:31 Heath: You would solve it with, I don't know, social and economic justice, but she thinks that's, you know, the woke ideology, which is going to bring the downfall, so I think

0:39:37 Thomas: Yeah.

0:39:39 Lydia: Guys, because here's a couple little fun facts about her positions on things. Um, the women's march was just an anti-Trump crusade, just so you know, American feminists are idiotic women concerned with trivial things, like who does the dishes and

0:39:54 Heath: That's what that was about

0:39:55 Thomas: What, What year is it for her? When, as Heath said, when are you?

0:40:00 Heath: Wait

0:40:00 Lydia: Thought Brett Kavanaugh should be confirmed, and she was retweeting articles that, saying that he was, had a, you victim of a setup yeah but you know, she's on, she's a fellow at the University of Austin, if anyone wants to go there, uh, with her husband Neil Ferguson yeah definitely more on that later, um no, no, so the University of Austin is is a

0:40:06 Thomas: Oh, yeah, that sucks that he never got to be Supreme Court Justice. Poor guy. Oh, there you go. More on that later. Yeah. Different thing. Fake university.

0:40:20 Heath: She's on staff at UT Austin, oh it's like the Washington Examiner or whatever not the yeah, Prager

0:40:30 Thomas: Yes.

0:40:30 Lydia: They just got a version of accreditation, like, very very recently through Texas but but

0:40:33 Thomas: Yeah, it's a fake university. It doesn't matter. It's still fake.

0:40:36 Lydia: Yeah um

0:40:37 Heath: U, school of hard knocks

0:40:38 Thomas: Yes,

0:40:38 Lydia: Yeah yeah just so anti-woke, anti-feminist, um, and a reaction to this essay, you know, she says in it, again, that increasingly clear that Christ teaching implied not only a circumscribed role for religion as something separate from politics, but a reaction to it was a stark reminder that the liberal secular West cannot survive without the Christian faith from which it emerged. So, yeah, we go.

0:40:38 Heath: Yeah okay yeah

0:40:38 Thomas: Exactly.

0:41:03 Thomas: Wasn't in the beginning of this, in 2007, wasn't she saying that no Christian wants the Bible to be used as government and now she's like well, anyway, the Christian Bible is necessary for government, I've come full circle, uh all right, well, she sucks, and uh, Christianity sucks, and it's not true

0:41:04 Heath: Yeah

0:41:10 Lydia: Yep.

0:41:11 Heath: No ridiculous ridiculous

0:41:17 Lydia: So crazy. And I'm not here to get involved in like how people raise their children or anything like this, but we don't have time for it. I had sent you a clip of Neil Ferguson, her, her husband, with Dave Rubin, and it was during COVID, they're homeschooling their kids, and he's like, oh, I have this hilarious story to tell you about our eight-year-old, and he was like, you know, his observations on life are just so interesting, and he was saying, you know, dad, there's two pandemics right now, there's COVID-19, and then another one that's even more dangerous because, because it's contagious via the internet, woke at 19, and like

0:41:22 Thomas: Oh God woke

0:41:56 Heath: Yikes

0:41:57 Lydia: Wanted to die, yeah

0:41:58 Heath: I'm more offended by that than anything else we've talked about, I'm tearing out my headphones right now, oh

0:42:01 Lydia: Yep

0:41:59 Thomas: At 19 yeah we finally got, he, all right, we thought we were done, but he's going to go for 90 minutes on better puns. Woked 19.

0:42:09 Lydia: Woke at 19, and then Ruben is like, he's like, normally, like, when people post things like, of what their kids say on Twitter, I don't believe them, but knowing it's you, I believe, yeah

0:42:12 Thomas: What? But that I believe. Oh, that's a good note to go on. So Heath, thanks so much for giving, again, way too much of your time. We appreciate it. Plugs for all the everything. Ooh, new season of D&D Minus was fucking hilarious so far. I want more of that.

0:42:35 Heath: Glad to hear it, yes, that's the perfect thing to plug right now we got a new season going, it's very exciting I'm

0:42:37 Thomas: Oh my God. Episode Episode two was really, just listen to that the other day. That was really funny.

0:42:43 Heath: Loving Achum the cat wizard, played by the one and only Anna Bosnick, I

0:42:48 Thomas: A whole new cast of characters. And of course, God awful movies, The Skeptocrats, Scathing Atheist, and Citation Needed. Did I miss any? I think we got it. Nailed Thanks it. So much for coming on. Really appreciate it.

0:42:57 Heath: Think you got him always a pleasure even as an atheist where I don't have a rallying cry or any reason to live.