DOD79: Bragging About Your Kids

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:28 Tom: Welcome to Dear Old Dads, the podcast whose kid is better than yours. And we have the bumper sticker to prove it. I'm Tom Curry. I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:39 Thomas: It the one that says baby on board, I always love that. I've made this joke for 20 years, I'm sure it's it's old by now, but I love the the implication that like most cars you can just fucking kill, like, you can't do it, you can do it, just ram your car through it, no big deal, smash them, to do whatever you want. If you see that sticker though, there's a baby, so don't do it to that one. That's

0:00:57 Eli: Laugh, but you need to check you're not a terrible driver privilege, because I do actually start driving when I see a baby on board sticker. My usual homicidal negligence momentarily subsides until that car is out of view. Yep.

0:01:11 Tom: I will tell you a story that's really does not frame me very well, but like, whatever, it's true. When I was in my early 20s, yeah, because I was still in college, I was in my 20s, maybe even late teens, I got, I was driving somewhere, I remember where I was, near my work, I got cut off, like, real aggressively by somebody, and it just was like, wrong day, wrong time, and I got super pissed and I like followed that person, flashing my lights, I just had a total road rage incident, like, I like acted like a total dick, and they finally pulled over into Wendy's parking lot, and I pulled over, and I was so hot about it, and I pull over and I got out of my car and I looked in the car, and they had a kid, and I immediately was like, you got a kid, you're gonna cut me off and piss me off when you got a kid, I got back in my car, because I was like, but, like, I totally, I think there's actually something to it, I guess is what I'm saying, because, cause I was like, so righteously angry in my dumb testosterone-fueled teenage, early

0:01:37 Thomas: Jesus Yeah.

0:02:06 Tom: 20 male mind, you know? And then I saw this kid and I was Like, but I could have hurt you in front of your kid, you know, like, yeah, yeah.

0:02:12 Eli: Exactly. Yeah.

0:02:14 Thomas: You take it all back now that I think about it, it's more like the signed student driver, you're just like, whatever, idiot thing they do, you're like, well, they got a fucking baby, man, I don't blame them. Like, I, they're probably they're probably literally asleep right now while driving.

0:02:21 Eli: Yeah. I Yeah.

0:02:28 Thomas: How

0:02:25 Tom: That's Smith, here's a life hack for you is whenever you go visit Eli Bosnick, bring bring with you a student driver sticker and put it on his car.

0:02:37 Thomas: Have we not thought of that before?

0:02:39 Eli: You know, the actual bumper sticker I have on my car, the

0:02:43 Thomas: Oh I think I do, I forget.

0:02:43 Tom: No.

0:02:45 Eli: Actual bumper sticker I have on my real car is, "Why am I like this?"

0:02:48 Thomas: Oh yeah. We've been wanting you to get that as a face tattoo, but for now bumper sticker, yeah.

0:02:55 Eli: Sure. Yeah. You know, well, I feel like people get it with the hairline, and the only thing worse than my receding hairline is the auto ads, gentlemen, I think we can all agree. I don't know about you, but the auto adds have taken an uptick for me, I used to get like one or two auto ads for each of our episodes, I counted, the last episode I listened to of our program, because I listened into the regular feed, because I'm a working man, with sweat on my brow, and the golden fields of wheat in my eyes, I had I

0:02:57 Thomas: Oh, yeah

0:02:57 Tom: Oh

0:03:22 Thomas: And the rich men north of Richmond aren't going... fucking... what?

0:03:27 Eli: Had 15 ads on my last

0:03:29 Tom: What?

0:03:30 Thomas: That's not even impossible. I'm

0:03:30 Eli: Episode of our show, it physically is

0:03:32 Tom: We don't even...

0:03:33 Thomas: In charge of that. There's that. Wow.

0:03:35 Eli: Thomas, you've been, you've hoodwinked, they're sneaking other ads in on you. Yeah.

0:03:40 Tom: Holy shit. Well, that's a spamming amount of messages.

0:03:41 Eli: Yeah.

0:03:41 Thomas: Well, I think it's more, even more urgent that people pledge on patreon.com/ slash Dear Old Dads.

0:03:44 Eli: I was gonna say so if if you would like to not have the equal amount of ads to podcast, podcast, you can just

0:03:51 Thomas: Obviously

0:03:52 Tom: We're going for a one-to-one ratio of podcast content to auto ads, so

0:03:53 Eli: Exactly yeah, if you would like to avoid that, you can support us over at patreon.com/dearolddads for as little as a dollar a show, you get a little extra parenting story at the end of every episode, and, like I said, your show will no longer be 50 percent advertisement.

0:04:14 Tom: I told this story, I wanted to talk about, um, about your kids and like performative parenting, I don't know if it's just a phrase I invented, but, like, I think it's it's apropos, and it actually dovetails off of the story I told for patrons last week in our last episode, um, about taking Aislinn to the ice ice rink. Um, by the way, I got messages from people that said I'm crazy that there's ice rinks all over the place.

0:04:35 Thomas: Yeah.

0:04:35 Tom: So I actually went and Googled nobody. Hang up. I Googled where I live. I think it's just a function of me living in, in like a relatively underdeveloped suburban area. So I Googles it. The closest ice rinks to where I lived was built in 1996 and is a 30 minute drive. So by 1996, I was a senior in high school. Like I was done with that kind of shit. So, So but nothing growing up. So I was like, God, am I crazy? Did I just miss all the fucking ice rinks by me somehow? But no, I didn't. But so this lady that I had the weird encounter with that insisted on tying Aislinn skates from last week's patron bonus.

0:05:09 Tom: Yeah, I felt terribly, like, I could barely get my dick hard for a week, but like she was I out with her for maybe the first half an hour of the sort of like kid event, right, no shit, the entire time she kept up a running commentary of how fucking awesome her kid was and all the great shit her kid did, she I learned I learned, in in this 30 minutes, her kid's body fat percentage, which I

0:05:07 Eli: Who emasculated you, me too, Tom, me too that's

0:05:09 Thomas: Oh, Jesus Christ uh,

0:05:30 Eli: Awesome that's great. Oh, that's

0:05:38 Tom: Thought was literally insane, that was an insane no, Eli, it was, fuck, she's a black belt in MMA, and I'm looking at this kid, I'm like, no, I don't think so, yeah, yeah, it, just MMA, not like Brazilian

0:05:38 Thomas: No, That's not good. Yeah. They

0:05:38 Eli: Not good no. I take that back, okay, that's that's a lie, that's yeah,

0:05:48 Thomas: Don't give out black belts in MMA, it's like saying I'm a black belt in fighting it's like, no, you maybe there's I guess there's probably some fucking gym somewhere that does that, someone's gonna call me out, oh, there's an ice rink on every corner, and there's... there's a gym that has black belts in it yeah yeah well

0:05:54 Tom: Jiu -jitsu right yeah no, yeah, it's so

0:05:55 Eli: What

0:06:06 Tom: There's an ice ring in every pot so I just, she just kept up this running 30 minute patter about, like, bragging on her fucking kid, like, with, like, I don't think she came up for breath the entire time, to the point where, like, I just was like, and I don't, I don't fucking do that shit, I think that shit is fucking gross, so and I think it's that's

0:06:26 Thomas: You don't like your kids at all so it's I I mean...

0:06:29 Tom: True, and I got nothing no I think it, yeah well

0:06:30 Thomas: Yeah.

0:06:29 Eli: Would you say Tom oh god, let me, let me look at this note on my phone, Flynn, Flynn, yeah

0:06:39 Tom: Just fucking left, I was just like, you know what, I got some calls I got to make from the car, and I just went out to my car and like did, I have some calls, there's always some calls I can make from my car, like, I've always got work to do, but, like, I could have also not done that. And it kind of leads me into the the, because I've seen this and encountered this, and I'm sure you guys have too, and I said the bumper sticker thing on purpose, because, like, Like, you drive around, you see those, like, my kid's an honors student, and that's, like, the least awful form of bragging about your kid, right? Like, hey, your kid did a cool thing, you want to, like, kind of show off a little bit, that's cool. But then there's that other side to it where you're showing off for other parents, in a way that, like The Kid's not involved.

0:07:16 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:07:18 Tom: The Kid is not there to hear it. The Kid off fucking ice skating 100 yards away. She's not hearing her mom being like, oh, I feel like really validated. My self -esteem is boosted. Like, this is just for me. Me. This is a, this is a brag for her to say what a great parent she is. And it's like really this sort of awkward hierarchical. And I wonder like, if you guys encounter this and what your thoughts are on it,

0:07:18 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I haven't. I feel like there is definitely a gender component, though. Like, I feel this is a mom shaming other moms thing more. Like, don't you think? I mean, I guess there's also the male dad's dragging about sports.

0:07:51 Tom: The dad's now the dad standing around the garage.

0:07:54 Thomas: Yeah.

0:07:54 Tom: That's yep.

0:07:55 Thomas: That's fair.

0:07:54 Eli: Yeah. That's A big part Of

0:07:56 Thomas: That's true.

0:07:55 Tom: I was going to say like,

0:07:56 Thomas: That's very fair. Yep. Yep.

0:07:56 Eli: It

0:07:57 Tom: Cause I'll give you the dad example real quick. Cause I was at a work event a few weeks ago and it's very like the, the upper management of my work is very male centered. So it's a bunch bunch of dudes we're sitting around we have nothing to talk about because none of us know each other personally and so we're talking about our kids and it is all bragging about their kids. Oh yeah, you know, John is in football and, you know, he's also an all-star baseball and I think he's gonna start, uh, basketball and hockey and lacrosse and crew, uh, all at the same time. Oh yeah, Jim got onto, uh, Harvard and got into Yale and got onto Stanford. We're really deciding to, I see who gets the most. It's very, very braggy. Like there's this really intense sort of like one-upsmanship that like, just refuse to engage in it.

0:08:40 Thomas: You know, I don't say this often, but I think, um... being an introvert is actually better. I think just stop. It's not fucking worth talking to people. You know, it's just fuck. It'S not worth it. I can't. Cause I, the minute I'm in that conversation, Tom, I'm like, nah, I am leaving. I don't know. It's your grudge. I'll fucking, I'll go to a different room. I CAN'T do this. I DON'T care.

0:08:49 Eli: Oh, I don't want to distract from the episode, but I have an amazing buddy who is an introvert, doesn't understand why that's bad thing for him and his family story, but I won't distract, just remind me, no, but it's like you plus really sad consequences plus like a 20 minute conversation conversation about recognizing the humanity so

0:09:11 Thomas: That's me. That's Eli. That'S, that'S me. You're going to have to tell on a different show. ThatS me. Oh, okay. No, there'S not that. No. You should tell it. You SHOULD tell it! I mean, I don't know, I think you should tell it.

0:09:24 Eli: I had some of the dads out, we did a little, uh, did a Little Dad Night, um, year in preschool, um, like all the dads for my son's preschool class, and it was really fun, I know all the dads, I was the class parent, so we went axe throwing, right, we went ax throwing, which is just like, you guys want to go throw some axes at shit, right, and the thing about axe throwing that they don't tell you is that everyone, everyone is bad at axe throwing, so that there's that first moment where you're like, god, I hope nobody's good at this, and everybody bounces the axe off at the first time, and they're like, oh, I actually don't give a shit about this at all, drinks, uh, so we're all having a good time, and my buddy, who I will call Schmeigel, um, is very sweet and very thoughtful and like just a genuinely good dude, but he's one of those people who is like, and, and not the bit that you do, Thomas, I don't, I don't want this to come off as like a sidelong insult, but like is genuinely an introvert, and so like didn't talk to anybody, and I came in

0:09:24 Thomas: Nice. Yeah. Oh

0:10:23 Eli: And checked with him like three or four times like, how's it going, man, and he was just like, okay, and I was like, all right, well, I said I have done my best, and so I messaged everybody, I was like, yeah, we'll do this again soon, and everyone was like, absolutely, yeah, we ended up doing a couple of things, you know, family meet up in the park, all that kind of stuff, but. But Smigel, much as I love him, wrote me this text being like, I don't know, man, it just felt like everybody was talking and I wasn't. And I kind of had to be like, man we're middle -aged. Like I don'T know what to tell you. We don't have a fucking buddy bench anymore. Like at a certain point you just got to open up your heart to the other humans

0:10:24 Thomas: Yeah no I don' t do that what yeah this isn' t fucking yeah yeah

0:11:01 Eli: Within your experience. And here to bring it back to what Tom was saying, so that I'm not just, you know, driving us off a cliff with my baby on board sticker, I think that's a lot of where that place of bragging comes from is the terror of socialization and the, like, the real problem that a lot of people have of being interested in other people, so you're just like, I will say impressive things and then you will say good job, and I, and we did, we did conversation conversation

0:11:21 Thomas: Yeah yeah yeah or you Will say, "You have defeated my child with your child in single combat. Your child is better." I yield, sir, more

0:11:37 Tom: Yeah.

0:11:36 Eli: Yeah. Know, one of the things that we talk about for Platinum Nights, when we do live shows, which is like these very intimate meet and greets where basically we just spend the whole evening with listeners, Thomas, you've been to our, Tom, you did one with us for fucking, uh, so when, back when we did live shows for Chicago

0:11:49 Tom: Yeah.

0:11:51 Thomas: Might try to go to the Vegas one if I can. We'll see.

0:11:52 Tom: Mm hmm.

0:11:51 Eli: Yeah baby um, but one of the things, like, we really focus on, that I think is very, is we're like, let's just ask as many, any questions as possible tonight to, like, have these conversations. And what's funny is, like, the best times come from us just being like, so where are you from? What do you do? Right. This stuff that feels like the most boring of small talk turns into these, like, incredibly super fun nights where someone turns out to be a marijuana cultivator and gives Noah a trash bag of marijuana, or, you know, someone's like, I, you know, a high end computer person doing Linux coding. And so we get to nerd out about Linux for an hour or so.

But, but I think, I think the reason this comes up, this brag parenting thing comes up so often is I think a lot of us wrap our heads around the idea that, like, what you are is a parent now. And that's really scary, right? I think a lot of people are not prepared for that, and even at best, myself included, I was like, you know, it's all about my kid now, right? Like, what I do is important, it matters, it has its own value, but, like, now, now the defining moments of my day, and probably of the rest of my life, will be about what I do for this kid, right?

That is really hard to get your head around, but it's even harder not to, like, ask for a report card when you check back into reality to be like, he's an MMA black belt, please tell me my life isn't wasted and that I'm doing a good job, because I think a lot of people feel, uh, maybe a little resentful, maybe just a little nervous about having made that decision, and

0:12:21 Tom: Yeah, well, Way more kind about this than I am, because could pull apart different like context that this kind of behavior exists in where I think like what you're describing might be true for sure in some context, like to go back to my work example. So I have a highly competitive work environment. Right. There is a sort of proxy success that bragging about your kid boosts your level of perceived like competence and like social standing in the group.

0:13:55 Thomas: Yeah.

0:13:55 Tom: It's sort of like – it's like bragging about your kid in these big ways becomes like walking around with a luxury handbag within these really competitive circles. So I think the context makes a really big difference, and it certainly felt like that was the case. And I'll give you an example. I'm sitting there, and they're talking about where they're sending their kids to college because we're kind of – many of us are kind of getting to that age in my work environment where our kids are in college or going to college. And so we're talking about where they're sending their kids to college, and they're almost all sending their kids to highly academically competitive schools or highly athletically competitive schools. And you guys know my stance on that stuff, right? You had a whole episode on it.

0:14:36 Eli: Don't think colleges exist now

0:14:38 Tom: I just think that that's all a big

0:14:39 Thomas: You used to date a college and now you can't see it.

0:14:41 Tom: Waste.

0:14:42 Thomas: I can't remember. Something like that.

0:14:42 Eli: You can't see them anymore, it actually doesn't matter if you can read, if you step into the right zip code, they instantly hand you right amount of money and then you live that with that money. I don't listen to you.

0:14:43 Tom: I don't see college, yeah. So, But I listen to Serious Inquiries Only on that, there's two episodes, good, good two-parter on that, by the way, but Yeah,

0:14:45 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:14:59 Thomas: Tom was is actually pretty well vindicated, I think, for the most part on that whole college thing. So yeah, check it out. Oh yeah, we didn't even plug that. Oh well. There's, than a few SIOs that get inspired by this show. And sometimes I'll like actually have someone who, you know knows what they're talking about, talk about the stuff we talk about. And no, that's your whole bit is drink a bottle of Tylenol or whatever.

0:15:07 Eli: Well, then wow.

0:15:20 Thomas: So sometimes I will have a doctor come on and be like, yes, drink an entire bottle of...

0:15:16 Eli: Hurtful. That No, I'm I'm glad, yeah. Bottle of Tylenol. Yes, at last. Well,

0:15:27 Thomas: Yeah, no, and uh, so there was the Colleges one, check that out if you'd like to.

0:15:31 Tom: It's Funny, because it's like, I'm, I'm sitting in at this dinner table, and like, this is like, I said, again, this is a very highly competitive social work environment. And And like, there is this sense that these are, these are proxy successes. And so we can't all brag about our work successes, because those are all known to us, right? So they don't mean anything, like it does. It wouldn't matter to me to say, like, here's the thing I did at work. I would be like, I fucking know that, dumbass. But like, so the next thing that we get to brag about, in order to sort of like move our social standing up that next hierarchical ladder piece, right, is to brag about our kids and to elevate like our kids' successes as proxies for our own competence, as if like, because my kid went to Stanford, I am the better parent, and if I'm a better parent, then I am obviously better as a person, and more competent, and likes, etc. etc.

0:16:18 Thomas: Do you ever just fuck with them by trying to have like a normal conversation, Tom, you know, what do you think about that uh Ukraine conflict? And they're like, I don't That doesn't That Doesn't Involve my- me bragging, so, how to like- I honestly, now I just want to talk about bragging, because I'm like, people, okay you know, by now, if you're listening to this show, you guys know, know, kind of my upbringing. This is one of those areas where sometimes I'm like, all right, you know, there are some benefits to growing up with someone who just ruins your self-esteem. Like, there are a few benefits.

And one of them is that if we ever bragged in any way, my dad would beat us down so badly verbally that it would, like, we had such an aversion to any sort of boasting, any sort puffy, any sort anything.

And to the point where, like, I truly just don't even, and understand it, like, forget the, it's two separate things, I think, though, that when it comes to the kid bragging, I think it really is just, those same people would be bragging about something else if they could, but they happen to have kids. I don't think, because like, I talk about my kids all the time, and I'm super proud of them, but I think, I hope that it doesn't come across that way.

I hope when it's like, oh yeah, I fucking, Phoebe did this drawing and I love it so much, I, I would, I would hope that's not someone thinking I'm

0:16:26 Tom: Oh, lord. No, yeah. No, but,

0:17:32 Thomas: Like, yeah My

0:17:32 Tom: That wouldn't be bragging, that, right, would be talking about you, yeah, but it would be like, oh, my kid's, my, going into the uh gifted art program next summer, and they're drawing at a fucking college level or whatever. You know, like,

0:17:39 Thomas: Plus yeah, Plus, There's the backhanded way and of course, you know, that's what I said to, um, uh, the uh, Dean of the uh, the Harvard School of Little Gifted Children. Of course, try to do it in all the, like, underhanded, not really bragging ways. That's the thing that I, I only listen for, for that in these conversations, just for fun. I just like, listen, I'm just tuned into that frequency. Like, oh yeah. How's the way that you're bringing this up in a totally organic way. That's not at all braggy. It's I don't get, I don'T fucking, this is one of those places where I'm like, I DON'T understand the humans, Tom. Explain the humans to me. I'm not, I Don'T.

0:18:02 Tom: But, yeah. Well,

0:18:12 Thomas: What is talking about something like that do? It's the same thing with the dudes bragging about their sexual conquests. What is that doing for, to us in this moment?

0:18:12 Tom: I, I, I

0:18:20 Eli: Thomas, as a correct,

0:18:22 Tom: It impresses other men who feel, yeah. It,

0:18:24 Thomas: Yeah, but it actually doesn't though

0:18:25 Eli: Also, as a, it does, uh, as a, let me explain, constantly.

0:18:27 Thomas: No No, have

0:18:28 Tom: Does, yeah, I'll tell you from, From, yeah. It, yeah, yeah, now,

0:18:31 Thomas: You ever, hold, on. But in a real way, Tom, like, okay, for use, this as an example, take away the bragging about the sex stuff. Have you every once been in that conversation, Tom, and been like, wow, I'm really impressed with these parents, and they, I respect them? Now No, you're, you're like, fucking these braggarts, like, they're just fucking, oh, okay, okay, yeah, competitive parenting parenting

0:18:43 Eli: That's not me. I was, that, that's my hot take for this episode, which is, I fucking, I love the braggy parents. You know, because the braggy are in it to win it, because, look, you only get three flavors of parents, right? You get this fucking asshole, which is the worst parent, right? The ones who just, the minute their child wanders away, they just tell you how much they hate their lives, and these they fucking shat in the bed last night, and you're just like, oh god, just kill yourself, man. And then there, then there's the shrug parents, where it's just like, cool, I'm glad you have a neutral approach to your existence.

0:18:59 Thomas: Oh, yeah, I hate that so much. Yeah, You barely even know they have kids. Do you have those friends? I have those friends where, once I became a parent too, and I was like, wait, you've, you've had kids this whole time? Like, I, I can't not talk, it's my every thought is like that. No, yeah, totally. That's, yeah,

0:19:23 Eli: Right, yeah, so, got the complainers, you got the shruggers, and then you got the braggers, and I'll take the braggers all day every day, because here's the thing, here's what you can do with a bragger. First of all, one, I would say, and Tom, come in here and tell me if I'm wrong, I would say 22% of the time a braggar parent is also psychopathically lying to you, of the flavor of, my kid's an MMA black belt, so you can also just enter gullibility mode and ask genuine follow-up questions. You'd be like, wow, so, like, is she rolling with like Gracie and those guys? Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, no, she actually, she is going to be in this year's season of UFC, which, which the men, yeah, I know, she's, she's going to be fighting men, should be fighting men. I think she's doing Floyd Mayweather. And then she's good. I ran out of, I ranoutof.

0:20:21 Thomas: This is the, the most real sports things you've ever said though that was pretty Impressive.

0:20:24 Eli: Yeah ,I ran outof punch people to. Thank you. But like, you can, yes and, the, but here's the other thing too. OK, people are so desperate for your approval that the stuff that you need, right, and I don't want to give it away, but, right, the stuff you need, like, what is the best dance class in the city? You know who knows that? The fucking brag parents and They will, they will tell you, can play them off each other, right? They'll be like, well, little steps is the most important, and then the brag parent across the ice rink will be like, did I hear you talking shit about Twinkle Toast? Because Twinkle Toes is the Best Goddamn Dance Academy Montclair New Jersey's ever seen, you whore, and you just get to sit back and figure out which dance class is good for your kid. I'm all about the bragging parents. I love that shit. And I

0:20:38 Thomas: That's fair, that's interesting.

0:21:07 Tom: Yeah, no, hard.

0:21:08 Thomas: I think we're three bears in it. I think there are three bears.

0:21:10 Tom: No. Yeah,

0:21:11 Eli: Can say this.

0:21:12 Tom: No.

0:21:12 Eli: I I can't wait to be one. Cause the me, Oh, the second Max, I I'm like, um, you ever see those people who like their kids and I have that kid, the kids in like a hitting place. And so they're just hovering around their kid being like, please don't hit anybody. Please don't hate anybody. I'm doing that with success the minute Max is like I guess I like trains, I'm going to be like yeah he's actually a trained professional I don't know if you know this but we had him take the standardized trained score it's the STC, that's what we call it even though score starts with an S we didn't want it to be STS because that's taken up by a different organization anyways, he actually scored a 99 but we challenged that 100th question for being anti-Semitic so yeah, he's probably he'll probably grow up to be a train He'll probably grow up to be a train. We're looking into it. You know, we got the top 20 train -based preschools on our radar right now.

0:21:53 Tom: Yeah fucking

0:22:04 Thomas: Not gonna be that. I

0:22:05 Tom: I could not this I guess.

0:22:06 Eli: Your kid didn't take the SATs, Tom. Whatever you're about to say, in counter to my opinion, your child was like, I don't know if I feel like this today. And you said yes. You said yes, started

0:22:09 Tom: Oh, I am I a thousand percent. Yeah, like, I, because I disagree with both of you guys, like, pretty soon, like, I think there's nothing more tedious to have to engage with personally than somebody who, once they become a parent, their entire personality seems to have become subsumed by their identity as a parent. And like, I won't spend time with those people, like, I just I'm just like, all right, cool, like, we want to talk about parenting, well Want to talking about parenting, that's cool.

0:22:38 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:22:40 Eli: A podcast with him.

0:22:42 Tom: But like, if that's like the bulk of who you've become, like, personally, that's fine for you, and other people and you can go make friends with someone else. Me personally, like, I'm not spending time with that person, right, like, I just, I find that just mind numbingly tedious. And I also know that most of the shit that we're bragging about has no impact, it doesn't matter, like, oh, my kid, learned my kid is a second grade and now reading a sixth grade level, it's like, that all irons itself out, that actually all levels out, and none of that matters, and you're braging about shit that you haven't even done the reading to figure out if that's meaningful, or it does, none ofthat matters, none.

0:23:18 Eli: Talented program, and I turned out both gifted and talented, coincidence?

0:23:21 Thomas: I.

0:23:24 Eli: Gifted.

0:23:24 Tom: And talented program too, like you.

0:23:27 Eli: Attempt, that's why you're on the podcast, see.

0:23:30 Tom: Like, it's, it's sitting at that table and listening to people talk about where their kids are going to school, and I'm sitting there thinking, like, like, I fundamentally don't agree that any of what you're doing matters. You're spending an enormous amount of time and energy, and like, I think it's, it's all pointless, meaningless nonsense. You're spending extra money on to achieve no result. Like, I actually, I'm like, this is fucking dumb. Like, you guys are, rather than impress me, I think a little less of you right now in this moment. Because I think you didn't do the fucking reading.

0:23:57 Thomas: You know who I fucking hate and can't stand is people who lift weights and don't drink any water, and they also sometimes.

0:24:01 Eli: Beat me To my yes, bikes.

0:24:02 Thomas: Yeah. And they, like, they like ride bikes sometimes, they work in real estate, like that.

0:24:06 Thomas: Kind of person, just fucking, I don't, not, and it's not anybody, I'm, I'm no. Here. Or anything.

0:24:10 Tom: You guys have not been subsumed by your identity as parents.

0:24:11 Thomas: Yeah.

0:24:13 Eli: You. Have no.

0:24:14 Tom: We've had many, many conversations.

0:24:14 Thomas: Yeah,

0:24:14 Eli: Idea How much I've. Been. Subsumed. You have no idea. How much. I've been subsumed. Tom.

0:24:17 Tom: You're laughing about it, but

0:24:18 Eli: We're. Scripted, 50% of the time you and I speak, all I fucking think about is my kid. If you don't think I see the death in my friend, my, my non-parent friend's eyes when they ask me what's up with me, I see them hesitate to do it. They're like, yeah. So then, and I said to her, yeah, so we'll probably see you Saturday. And she ended up showing up after all. So how are, and then they, it's like a car wreck, they're, like, how are you? Oh, no, I said it. And I'm, like. Well, so, we're.

0:24:15 Thomas: We're

0:24:18 Tom: You've not. What's Oh, I take it back, man.

0:24:45 Eli: Forking and spooning. We. You know those parents that say, like we're pregnant? I've never stopped the second person. I'm just, like... We're doing really good with our ladder climbing and OT.

0:24:53 Tom: God.

0:24:55 Thomas: Not shitting our pants as much. Well, that that actually sucks because you shit your pants, Eli. So how do you solve that? Like when you use the Wii, we

0:24:58 Eli: Mm- hmm. That's true. Yeah. It's tough. I use the royal max.

0:25:05 Thomas: Are not shooting up. I should clarify. Max isn't shitting his pants, actually. Sorry. The one time you step out of the road.

0:25:09 Eli: Isn't shooting his pants. I'm still very much shitting. I rude.

0:25:13 Tom: Yeah, like I just, you know, for me, that's not a thing. Like for me. I'm just like, I don't want to engage like that braggy. Nonsensical bullshit. Like I'd rather just leave. I'm like, yeah, I just don't know. I just want to do it.

0:25:20 Thomas: Well, well, Okay, set bragging aside though, like the bragging, which obviously I'm, I'm with you, I don't like the braging at all. I don't even understand. It's like they're speaking a different language, I just tune out, my brain just lose it. But there's also the just like talking about kids thing that I feel like is the, that's also something that like a point that I think you're making is like the people who only can talk about their kids, there's plenty of talk to be had about kids that doesn't involve bragging, like you also hate that is what I'm say

0:25:42 Tom: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely, and like, like I said, like I'm I'm happy to talk about no I hate it when it's the only thing we can talk about. Right, like if it's like

0:25:50 Thomas: Right Yeah. Yeah.

0:25:53 Eli: My my friends hate it so much, they, you've now told me the seven preschools you're considering for Max and the three OT people you have gone through and I know their names and wish not to. Yeah.

0:26:03 Tom: Well, and actually, I is Thomas still here? Oh, okay.

0:26:05 Thomas: I'm having a weird thing

0:26:08 Eli: No,

0:26:08 Thomas: Where it sounds like you guys don't hear each other and then are you having that? Oh,

0:26:08 Tom: Just no,

0:26:12 Eli: I hear Tom fine.

0:26:12 Thomas: Okay.

0:26:12 Tom: I feel like I can hear Tom or Eli okay? So

0:26:13 Eli: No,

0:26:14 Thomas: Up anyway, no, I'm here, I was just listening. Interrupting problem is so bad that literally if I just listen respectfully for 23 seconds Tom's like, I need to call the police, Thomas is dead. Yeah. He's guys, listen, I wrote the obituary already, he's clearly dead, there's no chance. Oh,

0:26:21 Eli: Thomas is Thomas dead, Thomas is no No longer with us.

0:26:19 Tom: You here, well, check, well, check Do believe in some amount of bragging, I do, I think some amount of braging, and this is, this is where it's, it's a continuum thing, right? Some amount of bragging, especially if your kids can overhear you talking them up in front of other people. I think that that's great. I think also, you Thomas, your pathological sort of like never brag ever. I disagree with that. You a quick story. Like I had a friend of mine who to Washington DC and she was given a medal by somebody in Congress, maybe the president, I don't remember, but it was, she worked for the EPA.

0:26:41 Thomas: That's interesting well,

0:26:42 Eli: Oh, yeah.

0:26:56 Eli: You should remember.

0:26:57 Tom: She won some big fucking award, some big medal and award.

0:26:58 Thomas: Not a big deal probably President, who cares, and

0:27:01 Tom: This was 15 years ago. I don't remember.

0:27:01 Eli: Medal of Honor, blah, blah.

0:27:03 Tom: It was a big deal.

0:27:01 Thomas: Whatever Humble Brag.

0:27:04 Tom: So she was a scientist for the EPA, she won some big deal award. And I remember being like, holy shit, that's awesome.

0:27:04 Thomas: Wow. That's fucking awesome. Yeah. Huh.

0:27:09 Tom: Yeah, I was like, that's so cool. I was, like, how did you win that? She's like, I nominated myself. I, at first, I, was a little taken aback. I, like wait, you nominated yourself? And she was like no one is going to celebrate you if you won't do it too. And, I thought about that. And that's stuck in my head.

0:27:14 Thomas: Yeah. Eli is for sure nominating himself for this right now as we we speak.

0:27:25 Eli: I literally that's what I was

0:27:27 Thomas: That's

0:27:27 Eli: Doing. Well, I don't know what you guys are saying, but I was I was nominating myself for the great contribution to scientific knowledge. Yeah, no, I feel like I've done that.

0:27:32 Tom: You not like she didn't earn that award because she nominated herself. It's not it wasn't valid. It didn't have to compete against many other people because she did in order to win that award. It just that she's fundamentally right that, if like, you're not willing to celebrate your achievements and accomplishments, then you really are just going to be sitting on your hands waiting and hoping for any kind of external validation that may or may not come. And think it's okay to fall somewhere healthily on a continuum where you're, yeah, I am proud of my kid. My kid just did this great thing. This show is part of bragging, and right? I know that. And like having a podcast at all is part of saying like, here I am as a person. I think I have something valuable to say. That's kind of bragging sideways.

0:28:15 Thomas: Not bragging. I if we mainly agree, but our definitions are different. Also, I love this, we're having, like, a conversation casual, and I'm over here having a truly existential, silent meltdown as to, like, what even is conversation, like do human beings. Bragging's relate to one, because I'm realizing I don't, like, I seriously, I really wonder, like I, because I don't have any interest in most of anything that, Tom, that, you're, making the, like, "oh, some bragging is fine," but I, I don't think bragging, like I want to discuss something if it's relevant or if it's an experience, like if, if someone, I'm like, "what'd you do the other day," they're like, "Oh, fuck it, I shook, you know, Jimmy Carter's hand for some reason, because I nominated myself for the Presidential Medal of Freedom in the 70s or something." And I would be like, "that's fucking cool, tell me about that." That's one thing.

But I think of bragging, to me, there's no healthy bragging. Speak. There's about yourself in a positive way or talk about good things that are happening to you. And for me, just definitionally, I wouldn't call it bragging if it's done in a healthy, honest way. That's the key to me about bragging, is the dishonest trying to make, like, you're not doing it, and also trying to find every subtle way to, like, in addition to not yourself up, knocking, not the other person down a little. In me, that'sall the bragging stuff, the braging stuff is inherently negative in my mind because of the dishonesty

0:28:17 Tom: Right. But part of

0:28:30 Eli: Well, Yeah,

0:29:39 Thomas: Of it, um,

0:29:40 Eli: I think for you that comes from the fact that your dad made this such a, like, an emotional taboo for you, right? The reason it is such a hot button, like, moment for you is because it is the thing you sought out to avoid discomfort in yourself, right?

0:29:56 Thomas: That's part of it, but I actually think it's also, just let me ask you this, and separate the comedy yeah it is it is, yes.

0:30:00 Tom: It is how you're just defining that term. Right? Like you're defining, you're defining the term bragging as necessarily being the unhealthy part of the spectrum. Cause like, maybe it's Brad, but I have shared, like, I've, I've mentioned before, like I'm, I'm taking up a new sport in the last year. And when I accomplished something in that sport, I have been proud of myself and I've shared it with my friends.

0:30:04 Thomas: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

0:30:18 Eli: Hate.

0:30:18 Tom: Right.

0:30:18 Thomas: There's, that's not bragging.

0:30:19 Eli: That Yeah, I talk shit about you all the time when you do it. Go.

0:30:20 Tom: But, but That's bragging to me. Like, that's a little bit of brain. Cause what I'm doing is I'm reaching out to other people with my accomplishments. And I am by doing that, looking for some validation, right? Like that's inherent in the process. And so, yeah. that'S the thing. It's like, in my mind, that's on the healthy spectrum because but like, I think that there's definitely an unhealthy version of that. Right. And the unhealthy version of that is what you define as. I'm saying that's in my mind, that's all bragging. You can healthy brag about your kids.

0:30:31 Thomas: That's nothing wrong with that, so I promise this is not me trying to be annoying in an argument, I literally wanted to look it up just to see like it

0:30:49 Tom: Yeah. Maybe I'm just wrong here.

0:30:50 Thomas: You look it up, the key is, like, excessive, or, you know, like there's a lot of that, like it, so, like I, but either way, Tom, we can just fucking, who cares about the words I think we're talking about essentially the same thing. I want to be very, very cautious, because my dad also would have hated, created the healthy version too. And I fuck that. Like I have no, here's, here'S what,

0:30:55 Tom: Okay. Right, right, right.

0:31:11 Tom: You should never want validation. You should never want validation ever.

0:31:13 Thomas: Oh, a hundred percent. He, if, if any of us were happy about anything, he'd have to take us down. I'm not, I want to make, it's actually very important to make this point. I'm glad that we're, we're doing this because Tom, if you just, if we were in a conversation and I'm like, how's it going? And you're like, Oh man, I am so proud of myself. I I, just, I'm the all sweaty because I just was to do this bike ride that was longer than I've ever done. I don't I'm just feeling on a high on it because like I worked really hard. And I'd be like, that's fucking amazing. That's awesome. That's totally to me. That's just a healthy that to me, the dishonesty is the key. It's it's I want to ask you this, Tom, in any of those experiences with these other parents that you're talking about, did you personally have a positive experience with that?

0:31:15 Tom: Yeah. No, No.

0:31:53 Thomas: Their bragging about their kid or whatever they're doing? Did that make you go, oh, this is a fun conversation. I like this. This is good. No, really. Truly. No, if I came to you and I was like, oh, my God, Tom, just drew the cutest fucking picture. I'm so proud of this. Like she used this new texture that I'm like, I'm just blown away by. It's so cute and it's so cool. And I just can't believe it. Don't think you'd be sitting there being like fucking Thomas. Just like and if you are, then let me know. And we shouldn't be friends.

0:32:00 Tom: Never. No, Yeah, absolutely not, no.

0:32:21 Eli: On lie to him, Tom, lie

0:32:22 Tom: Then We should not have this show

0:32:22 Thomas: We should not be friends yet.

0:32:23 Tom: Right? Yeah, right?

0:32:23 Eli: To them Tom, Tom, God, lie to him, tell him you wouldn't hate that conversation.

0:32:24 Tom: Yeah, no,

0:32:25 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, lie to me. But like that, that conversation is not designed for me to, to make you think your kid is not enough or, or your accomplishments are not enough.

0:32:27 Eli: Yeah. Hey.

0:32:28 Tom: No, yeah, right, right. Yeah, that's and that's exact. That's exactly right. That is exactly the continuum and the and the dynamic that I'm approaching. Yeah.

0:32:40 Thomas: Yeah.

0:32:41 Eli: But... Just real quick, Tom, just real quick, Tom, Tom. Could you just answer the question, how would you feel about the conversation about Phoebe's drawing and the new texture she's using, would you love that, that Tom, you lie you come on here with salt in your mouth like the devil like the devil himself that's

0:32:41 Tom: Yeah. Sure. Buddy. I would be very happy that Thomas was happy I would I would be happy that Thomas was happy you told me something years ago, Eli, Eli, you said something years go that stuck in my mind and I'll never forget it, you said something to the effect of the the key to anyone's heart is the people that they love, it was something along those lines and I heard that and I I was like, that's now a part of me. Like that is a hundred percent now, just a part of how I'm going to live and behave for the rest of my life. So I know enough about Thomas to know that like friendship I want to have with Thomas, in order for me to deepen that, I have to love the people he loves and I have to care about the people he cares about. And I have taken that as a personal ethos. And I've tried to incorporate that as the moment you said it, that clicked for me. And And I was like, that's now just part of how I live. Like, I take that from you.

0:33:12 Eli: True yeah

0:33:41 Thomas: Yeah,

0:33:41 Eli: Maybe that's why I like the braggy parents, is because they're like giving you easy mode as to how to get into their heart. Is They're, like, yeah, going to yale this year and you're, like, wait, no, fucking like yale the college and you just win you just win Whereas the quiet ones, you got to be, like, so do you have a good childhood, bad childhood, did you get diddled, you seem like you got diddled, Uriel.

0:33:46 Thomas: That's fair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:34:02 Tom: Yeah.

0:34:05 Thomas: Yeah. Think that is very important clarification though. Cause if somebody tells me fucking literally anything that they are proud of or happy about in an honest way, I I don't even know what it is. I'm happy for them. I'm cheering for them like that is a positive interaction to me. It's about that. I think the key is that dissembling kind of fucking, Oh, they find the thing that's your weakness and they subtly brag about how they actually did it well. And you're an idiot, you know, like it's all, and that I don't fucking understand because Because I don't know... I know the answer is that these people are fundamentally, like, fucking broken. They need therapy. But for me, I I don't get anything from someone else feeling bad that I did well. I get nothing from that. That does... If anything, I feel bad about that. Because, like... That's sad for them that they feel bad. Why do you want to make someone else feel bad who's ostensibly a friend? I'm not talking about, like an enemy or something. But, like,... You know?

0:34:19 Tom: Yeah.

0:35:00 Tom: I want to go back to your example real quick where you were like bragging, so to speak in quotes, like about like Phoebe's drawing, right? Language you used is it immediately strikes me as something worth pulling apart just for a moment, because what you're saying is like my kid did this thing and it makes me feel this way.

0:35:06 Thomas: Mm -hmm. Yeah.

0:35:15 Tom: So you're talking about you. Right. That of the unhealthy shit that I see never reflects back on the person talking. Instead, it's a it's a way for people to take credit for someone else's accomplishments. You know, so if you were to say like, you know, like if you were to say healthily, this would be a healthy example like, oh, you know, Phoebe got into Juilliard, you know, and I'm just, my, I'm so excited for her and I just can't wait to see what she's going to accomplish, it makes me feel so proud of her, that's that would be fine, right? Like, like, who's gonna bitch about that, that's like cool, like Thomas's kid did a thing and Thomas has feelings about it, great

0:35:17 Thomas: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah mm -hmm. Yeah, yeah Yeah Yeah, 100

0:35:49 Tom: Awesome anything else would be insane, but

0:35:49 Thomas: % the example will be like you will say oh, man I don't know we're waiting to hear back from you know fucking State College And we're not sure if he's gonna get in and you know whatever and then someone else the other parents like mmm Yeah, oh, so I I was driving my kid off at Harvard the other day And it's like, they try to do it in a way that's like They're not really, and you're like, fuck you You know what you're doing, you

0:36:11 Tom: I think when it comes to our kids, expressing our emotions over their successes is perfectly wonderful and everybody does it.

0:36:16 Thomas: Yeah That's just relating to each other That's not just any other day Someone saying, what's going on with you And they care about it, assuming they're a friend And you are relating the thing that is At of your mind That you are feeling in that moment And that's a good interaction in my book No matter what it is, you Know Like, whatever the, oh man, I just fucking I don't know, what would Eli like I just did an amazing magic trick that I've been working now. Eli literally doesn't talk about anything but his kids now and that's fine about his kid. But like some other example that's not kids, it's the same thing. That's a positive experience to me. It's it's about what are you trying to make the other person feel? You trying to genuinely relate? Are you trying to take them down a peg?

0:36:19 Tom: Right. Yeah, but yeah, yes. Are are you claiming their accomplishments as a proxy for your accomplishments like that is that is a I I see it, especially as the kids are older, I see it and it's like, it's fucking gross. You it'S just fucking gross and it seems so small, like and it feels so so disconnected from what the kid actually did, right? Because now the, now the focus isn't on how excited I am that my kid has done something wonderful.

0:36:59 Eli: Sure.

0:37:18 Tom: Now The focus is this kid did something wonderful, pay attention to me because of it, right? It's trying to get the attention directed not toward the kid and their accomplishments, but directed toward me for my kids' accomplishments. That is like attention vampire shit, it's fucking gross. Yeah.

0:36:57 Thomas: Right. Mm hmm.

0:37:23 Eli: Right. Um, Wonder if this is part of it, especially as they get older, because this is something I'm noticing even just now with Max, as he gets to be a little bit older, is there's this weird moment, this weird shift that I'm kind of dreading, where you aren't your kid's favorite person anymore, but they're still your favorite person, right?

0:37:55 Tom: Yeah.

0:37:55 Eli: Like the the relationship does and should shift, right? And I think especially for moms, although again, Dear Old Dads, sort of talking from a father's perspective, but I think specially for moms, there's this like my little boy, my little girl experience, and then it healthily and should, and but like, that would be like if I started continued to love my wife and she just like didn't live here anymore and I I I wonder if part of that braggadociousness and part of that need to like make your child's, uh, especially when it comes to success and adulthood, about you, is missing that moment when you're, when every achievement was brought to you, right? When every picture, when every drawing, when every good grade and

0:37:56 Thomas: Yeah, Yeah, you

0:38:19 Tom: Right. No.

0:38:40 Thomas: Are just giving these people so much more credit than they deserve, Eli.

0:38:43 Tom: I I feel this dude, like I I think

0:38:44 Eli: Yeah. And now they want a hand job from Stephanie in fucking homeroom. And you've got to, you got to be like, like, I think, I think I've said it on this show. Like the fact that my son someday will be like I love her and not be talking about me is just unbearable. Like he's going to, there's going to be by all statistics, he's going to bring a normal person into my house and be like I love her or him or them, whatever. We're, we're chill.

0:38:46 Tom: Yeah.

0:39:11 Thomas: It's Arlo.

0:39:12 Eli: We're cash money here. Right it's Arlo I love Arlo well Arlo is extraordinary Arlo knows all of Venom's uh special moves so that I'll be fine with but if Arlo wasn't extraordinary there's something about like oh this person cool welcome welcome to the most important thing that's ever happened to me you're here now I hope you don't um do the worst thing that'S ever happened TO HIM TO HIM please and thank you yeah

0:39:41 Tom: Okay. So, So, so, real quick, two things. And I think one of them could almost be a whole episode, but that. I think you're right. And I think that's why I have always been, as my kids have become older, for sure. I didn't feel this way when they were little, but I am leery, leery of becoming lost as a person in parenting. Right. Because I recognize that at some point they will flee. They will, they will, they will fly the nest. And like, if my whole self of all of my emotional, or even a lot, or the bulk, not a lot, like obviously it's already a lot. But like if the majority of my emotional energy and personal identity is wrapped up in my kids, I'm going to live most of my life without my kids in my house, most of my life. So like, if that's, that's where my identity is sort of wrapped up, then that's a real vulnerable, shitty place for me to be, and I'm gonna have to contend with that as a crisis, and there is a, and I, and I Think Like

0:39:43 Thomas: Yeah, I think Eli and I are having the same reaction. Cool, man. That's fun that you have powers to do that somehow. That's to I think you and I are going to do the same thing. It'll be like, I'm married to Lydia, but really my true love was someone else. Like my soulmate was like a different, you know, woman somewhere. It'd be like that, or I'd be Like, I want to be there, you know, but like, you know, the one that got away, it's going to be like that.

0:40:34 Tom: Yeah, Yeah, So

0:40:39 Eli: Yeah I

0:40:54 Tom: But Think you guys feel that way, and I felt very similarly when my kids were little. Like, I think it's really, really right and appropriate to feel that way when your kids are really little. We talked about this before, that like they rely on you so much, and that changes, and it changes fairly gradually. And so this process is a growth process for most people. But I have an analogy to this from, again, from my work, and I'm sorry, but like there's a guy who's a couple levels up for me that I work with, that his whole identity is his work, his whole identity is work, and he's not a young man, he's in his, I'd guess mid-60s at this point, and he got got relocated to Florida and he had a meeting and he called us all down to Florida for this meeting and there was maybe a dozen of us, and he said, like, you guys are my first friends that I've had in my home, and I was like, bro, we're not friends.

0:41:35 Thomas: Oh,

0:41:43 Tom: But his identity has become wrapped up in his work, and so he can't see the difference, and so she's in a crisis and doesn't know it, right? So I think that's true, like Eli, I think you hit it on the head, like I think that's true of parents, like, like it's like fuck, like if our whole self and our sense of identity is wrapped up permanently, and that's sort of like kids' stage, and it doesn't evolve as the kids get older and they start to kind of pull away and we start to sort of let them pull away, we don't like do that as a, as I think like as a really intentional and thoughtful emotional process, because if we don't do that, we're not going to do it, and then we're gonna to be like, fuck, they're gone. And then you're gonna be like, who am I? I don't know.

0:41:43 Eli: Fucking yikes yeah

0:41:44 Thomas: Yeah, that was.

0:42:21 Thomas: Yeah, I

0:42:22 Tom: Why wake up in the morning? You know, it's gonna be horrible.

0:42:22 Thomas: Mean, all Even if that's all that's going on here, which I think Eli's, you know, giving people way too much credit, there would still be a different way of talking about your kids, you know, if your kid, if your life revolves around your kids and like, you know, you're you're thinking it's trying to get that back, that time where you're the focus, all that, you still could talk about them in a way that's not bragging and bringing the other parent down. It's just a different thing in my mind. And like, I plan on doing that. I plan forever caring about talking about our kids.

I'll always tell Tom about Phoebe's new drawing now at all times yeah and I, here's what I wanted to, test the limits of that, though, though, and this is a genuine question, Tom. Like, I don't know, this might come up when you talk about parents saying credit for the accomplishment kind of thing. Like, I want to see, like, kind of test the boundaries of that. So what if hypothetically I'm a sports dad or something, or I'm whatever, I'm doing something with my kid where it is important to them and it's something, you know, they want to do, assume this is an healthy version

0:42:48 Eli: But it'll always be genuine and from my heart

0:43:16 Tom: Yeah.

0:43:16 Thomas: Of this. But you ask me what's going on, and we have this kind of interaction that's been our hypothetical this whole time, and I'm like, all Arlo, he just got into fucking Venom School for little gifted Venom impersonators, and I, and here's the, so I'm trying to put a spin on it, which is, and just tell you, like, I worked with him so hard, like, date, like, every morning he, I was like, allright buddy, if you want to get into little Venoms, little fucking school for venomous, amazing Venom impersonaters, you're we're like, you're gonna, I'll wake, we'll get up early. Let's be real. That won't happen. This is a fictitious thing. I'll stay up late with you. I'm not getting up early, but I'll stay up really late.

0:43:41 Eli: Venoms hey Thomas this took a real dark turn I'm gonna need you to I'm going to need you to steer this shit back into juggle land

0:43:55 Tom: All right,

0:43:58 Thomas: I will never wake up early not even for my kids.

0:43:59 Eli: Cool

0:44:00 Tom: Arlo, I'll help you as long as it's not inconvenient for me. Okay, got it.

0:44:01 Thomas: Yeah, it can't be in the morning. That's all. Oh, I'm kidding. I fucking got up early to take to take my kid to school today.

0:44:03 Tom: Yeah, yeah. All of your dreams are afternoon dreams no

0:44:05 Eli: Cool okay hey guys Guys, I have a joke. Why do scuba divers?

0:44:14 Thomas: So anyway, and I'm like, all right, buddy, we got it. We got to fucking and we got to get up early to practice venom, venom school for venom school. And I, and I tell you Tom, like, yeah, I just, we, I worked so hard with him and like, I, it's amazing. He did such a good job. Like it's still about the kid, but, but is that, I'm curious if that would flag to you as like, Oh, taking credit. If it's talking about like, no, the process of, like, we both worked really hard on it. And, and expressing, like, I feel proud as a parent that, like, I helped him do this, you know.

0:44:14 Eli: Why do scuba diver?

0:44:32 Tom: That Would be fine. No.

0:44:42 Tom: I think that would be perfectly fine, because, again, the just, just the way that you phrase it is like that instance you're talking about something that you did, right? You're not, you're not, like, saying, "Oh, yeah, you know, like, uh, Arlo's so great at fucking doing Venom shit, and you should see all the Venom shit that he does, and, like, you know, some other kids I know, they don't do the Venom shit, but he's like, he's really into the Venom, shall we show you all the fucking Venom shit, you're like, "Holy shit, man." Man, what else are you like? What the fuck else are you, like, you're telling me in your case about your life? Yeah. Like in the, in the instance you gave me, it's like, you're telling me about your wife. Yeah.

0:45:08 Thomas: I'm a Venom dad. Classic Venom dad. Yeah. Okay, cool, yeah, I'm glad, because that may come up. No, I think that really expresses the difference, is that it just is about how you're making the other person feel.

And I, for some reason, I'm of, it's sort of occurring to me again, this is way more like existential for me, that I think for you guys, that because I had to, to like, build my own, a lot of my fucking psyche and self-esteem, I had to rip everything down and then rebuild it in a healthy way. I actually think this is one area where that's been a benefit to me, because my self-esteem now, it's not related to any bullshit.

Like, always been painfully realistic about everything. Like, that's what a source of, like, being depressed is, not being able to, like, have that cognitive dissonance and say, like, "Oh, yeah, it's cool that, you know, fucking half the world starving to death. That's fine, 'cause I don't notice it." Like, stuff like that is hard for me to do. But, um, one benefit of it is my feeling about myself. My feeling of self-worth has nothing to do with, like, an interaction where I might make someone else feel less than. That does nothing

0:46:12 Tom: Right.

0:46:12 Thomas: For me. And I think if that's you out there, if that, for some reason, makes you feel good, you should work on that. Like, 'cause that isn't anything, you haven't done anything. If you actually accomplish something, different story, you actually accomplished something, but your accomplishment or your feeling should not be related to, like, how bad you can make another person feel for not having done that. And if that's where you get your self-worth, you're a piece of shit.

0:46:34 Tom: Eli, Eli.

0:46:35 Eli: Okay, but sometimes like people are worse than you and they're not acting like it. I just, I don't. Anyways, I gentlemen, before we go, why do scumba divers roll backwards off boats? If they rolled forwards, they would fall into the boat.

0:46:44 Thomas: Yeah.

0:46:58 Tom: Oh my God. I know that one. I've heard. Oh God.

0:47:05 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILF, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues LLC. Copyright 2022. All rights reserved.

0:47:44 Thomas: Remember how I said my thing does a spinning wheel forever all the time? Out that was an issue with my DAW and they did an update that fixed it. Which is bad because that was gonna be the impetus for me to finally fucking change out my computer. But now that that's solved, I guess I'll just keep using the old computer even though I have the new one ready to go. It's gonna be fucking defunct by the time I actually do it.

0:47:47 Eli: Hmm.

0:47:58 Eli: No. Oh, yeah.

0:48:07 Tom: I want to teach myself to read again. I feel like I don't know how to read anymore, so I want to teach myself to read again.

0:48:11 Thomas: Oh, I definitely don't know how.

0:48:12 Tom: Um, yeah,

0:48:11 Eli: It Effort. Like, it is an actual, like, concern the first month or so of getting into the habit of reading for entertainment as opposed to picking up your phone is sugar.

0:48:22 Thomas: Are you trying to do that, Eli? Is that a thing you're trying to?

0:48:23 Eli: Uh, I did that years ago, but um, uh, am actually uh, innately uh,

0:48:26 Thomas: Oh, okay. I didn't realize you were just that much better than Tom and I. I didn '— Okay.

0:48:30 Tom: Yeah. I, I,

0:48:31 Thomas: Tom, did you know that Eli was that much besser than us, like, as a person?

0:48:34 Tom: Did,

0:48:31 Eli: Superior do you know how cool and awesome I was.

0:48:34 Tom: I

0:48:35 Thomas: Yeah.