DOD19: Baby Medicine and ER Visits

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:28 Tom: To Dear Old Dads, the podcast that just needs you to give me one minute, goddammit. I'm Tom Curry, and I'm joined as always by Thomas Smith and Eli Bosnick. Hello, gentlemen.

0:00:39 Thomas: Ah,

0:00:39 Eli: Uh, Tom, okay, see, I was going to say these are getting less and less dad -like and more and more just what Tom needs to say, but Tom has jumped in. Okay, maybe that's a, that's a dad thing about

0:00:39 Thomas: Give me a minute, Tom! God!

0:00:51 Thomas: Oh, wow. Okay. You, you, huh. Yeah. You're not to this point yet. And also, yeah, the, the yeah, I don't, I don't say that, but it's close because Phoebe just, oh my God, they'll, she'll just try to talk to us forever. Like we'll be having a conversation, you know, or even, no, sorry. We don't get to have a conversation around the kids.

0:00:57 Tom: Smith, don't you need just one goddamn minute, please? Yes.

0:01:15 Thomas: I'm just realizing now we'll We'll be trying to exchange a quick, important information nugget like real quick about like, hey, the intruder is locked in the closet or something important, you know, and I can't get through it without Phoebe deciding she has to talk to us and just talking, talking and talking over and then yelling at us when we're not doing it. And so that's why I relate to that. It's just like we've really had to be like, Phoebe, it's not your turn. Wait your turn and she hates it. And then, you know, she gets it's it's tough. I relate To

0:01:23 Eli: A house fire. Right.

0:01:25 Tom: You can sleep right through those right oh

0:01:30 Eli: Right, and

0:01:50 Tom: Man

0:01:50 Eli: Kids also talk in like six parts, right? They'll be like, I thing. And you're like, oh, okay, cool. You pull the train brake of the conversation about like, no, the science aliens are killed by water. But you can't say that. So you pull the emergency brake. You're like oh, what did you want to say? And they're like one, okay. One time, do you know how? And I'm like I know everything you know. I know infinite amounts More that you never need to know, backup required. I know all the things you know, just

0:01:59 Thomas: That one. Yeah.

0:02:16 Tom: Oh, Eamon starts everything with, "Can I tell you something?" And I'm just like, you don't have to ask me if you just fucking tell me the thing that you're gonna tell, like, you, Eli, it's like at first I fucking know it, so it's boring, whatever you're going to say is going to be boring you

0:02:36 Thomas: Or or the other hand of that, Tom. Well, both of you, they'll something that's intimately related to them in their classroom or something that you obviously wouldn't know. They're like, so you know how Mrs. So-and-so has the on the shelf that she has that And you're like no, I don't know anything. Why would I know? I'm not in your class with you.

0:02:54 Tom: Oh, but at least you get, I to provide you some clue as to what the factoid you're going to, because Amon will just say random shit that is disconnected, like has no contextual preamble whatsoever. So it'll be this like, can I tell you something you have to answer? Yes, you can tell me whatever you want. You can always tell me what you want! I've told you you can tell me WHATEVER YOU WANT! And then he'll be like, like, uh, all out of fish food. And I'll be like, I don't have a fish. And he'll be like, but the fish doesn't add. And you're just like fucking Woody. And then you finally like pull it out. And it's like, Oh, in your classroom, you ran out of, well, I don't care. Like the teacher's job is to buy the fucking fit. Like, Oh my. And also like with kids, you're, I dunno if you guys know this, but do you know that you're actually literally invisible? They cannot see you. So no matter how much work you are doing, they still can't, they can't see that.

0:03:07 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh,

0:03:46 Eli: Nope. Can't

0:03:47 Tom: So they have No problem asking you in the middle of like you holding like two laundry baskets on the phone while making a sandwich. If they can get you a bowl of cereal, like they literally can't say all I only have two hands and I'm using three of them somehow. And you still need me to do something right now

0:03:47 Eli: See it. And the less safe You are the more important the bullshit they have to say right like if you are fighting if Freddy is bearing down on you with a hunting knife that that is when they need to tell you they saw a brown dog, right? Like that is the most important time you're sitting there. And of course this is, this is the sweet, sweet irony of it, right. All the check -in times, right, them up from school, seeing them for the first time in a little bit, finishing your work. Hey, how's it going? Good.

0:04:04 Tom: Yes.

0:04:18 Tom: Nothing

0:04:28 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, nothing, dead silence, totally, 100%.

0:04:30 Tom: To say yeah yeah

0:04:35 Eli: Sometimes I want to fake it around kids. I'll be like, oh man, I'm so busy. And they'd be like one time and I'd be Like, ha got you. I actually have nothing going on for the next 10 minutes. Struggle through this fucking

0:04:41 Tom: Oh,

0:04:43 Thomas: Yeah, you just start juggling. Yeah, and also, it goes without saying, but But everything they're saying during this, all of the things we're describing is a scream. There's no, the one volume mode they have is screaming. It's incredible.

0:04:57 Tom: My God, yeah.

0:04:58 Thomas: And when two of them get going, trying to out scream each other, at least you don't have to deal with that, Eli. Like they try, they try to out decibel each other. I,

0:04:58 Tom: Yes.

0:05:06 Eli: Well, let's, let's be clear, I don't have to deal with any of this. Okay, I'm, my son is like a fucking librarian, right? He's just walking through the house in perfect peaceful silence and I'll be like, hey man, a horse, and it'd be like nini and I'd be like yep, no, that's a horse, does say nay, all

0:05:20 Thomas: Yeah. Oh, and.

0:05:24 Tom: I, when we have all four kids, I'm not even kidding, we have all four, the volume and intensity and chaos level of that rises to a place where Haley and I will frequently be like, let's just eat dinner in our room. Like, it's just too loud. I can't, I can't be down here and eat like a person at a table. I can't do it.

0:05:39 Thomas: Yeah, I get it. Well, so I moved my whole setup. I moved to have like a downstairs workstation because I'm editing so much and I miss the family. I was like, I got to be down with the family. I have downstairs workstations. I was editing and I'm frequently, I feel like such, I don't know. I feel like my dad or something because I'll be trying to edit, you know, which is audio in my ear holes that I have headphones on and they're screaming so loud. I can't hear what's in what I'm listening to. And I'll be like, guys, I have to leave. I get like I I keep doing this dad thing of being like, can you be quieter? I have to leave like I have to go somewhere else and I don't want to and it's like I feel bad, but they're so loud. So if you hear like, you know, any loud Eli taking a shit that I forgot to edit out. It's cuz my kids my kids were yelling so loud that I just couldn't even hear it.

0:05:50 Tom: Yeah.

0:06:23 Eli: Yep. Edit out. Yep.

0:06:25 Tom: You, Thomas, you moved your, your editing station downstairs. Eli just moved his actual boom mic all the way into the bathroom next to the toilet. Just

0:06:36 Thomas: Well, I assume he's coming to us from his toilet.

0:06:36 Eli: That's Yeah, No.

0:06:38 Thomas: Always.

0:06:38 Eli: Obviously. We're all we're all recording for where it's important to us. I

0:06:38 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah Yeah. But remind it when you, uh, Tom, what you were saying that, Amen. Uh. I think it was says, you know, I need to tell you something. It reminded me of a couple of things. Um, first off one component of that. I forget if I've told you before, but I am the only one in my life that keeps hydrated. I don't know why I've always loved to drink water. I actually think it's because I've already had heartburn, but I'm just addicted to why I slam water. I have a giant fuck off water, water thing. You wouldn't believe how big it is like a big gulp trucker size, whatever. Ever.

0:07:04 Eli: I can confirm this.

0:07:06 Thomas: I just keep with me at all times.

0:07:06 Eli: It's It's genuinely terrifying. You

0:07:10 Thomas: And I, yeah,

0:07:10 Eli: Assume he's going through some kind of outpatient procedure he doesn't want to talk to you about.

0:07:14 Tom: Are You doing like a colon cleanse? What's going on? Yeah,

0:07:15 Eli: Yeah. Exactly. Well, the doctor says that it'll shrivel off and die, but I have to drink. And oh, okay, well,

0:07:18 Tom: Right. Yeah.

0:07:23 Thomas: I have to drink an oil drum full of water per day. And so I'm the one with water. And So that means that I have the family's water. Now I've just, it's become the family. And my kids want my one.

0:07:24 Tom: Oh, they just drink your water.

0:07:35 Thomas: They just dream out, but I see, I want my kids to drink water. Cause I feel like it's probably good for you. So I'm always thrilled about it. Except sometimes when they're eating and you know, I, I had to be like, all right, You can't, you can't finish your food, but they'll ask me every time, dad, can I have your water? This is 20 times a day. I'm not exaggerating. Dad, can you have? Yes. You can always have my water. That's what it reminded me. It's the same thing, Tom. Can I have your water, yes. You can 100% of the time, all the time at any time, have my water. You don't need to ask. It doesn't matter. They'll ask every time. Which I guess is good. Like they're being polite.

0:07:35 Tom: Oh, Oh, no,

0:08:08 Eli: Look at, see,

0:08:09 Thomas: I don't.

0:08:09 Eli: This is interesting because we inhabit opposite universes, which is that nobody in my house remembers to drink, but they are all living organisms, so they'll die without water. So I am a fucking Mickey the boxing coach. My entire life is following around everyone in my home and my house going, buddy, you want, you want some water, buddy? You wanna a little drink, right? And it was just like, take a little sip out of the side again, because he's all, all fucking travel thermoses, right? Because he can't do like glasses and cups yet. So it'll just like, like a boxer, cut me, Mick. And then he just tosses it to the side and I'm like, it's fine, I'll get it.

0:08:26 Thomas: Squirting him in the face.

0:08:45 Eli: And then combined with other nameless family members who I will not name, who like to leave things, I'm going to say precariously balanced on their edge of every surface, as though she's doing some kind of art piece about the fragility of man, all

0:08:44 Thomas: Yeah, yep, yep.

0:09:02 Thomas: Oh, see, cause my, my family member who I won't mention has to just leave constantly half finished beverages of different kinds. Yeah. Any, oh, mine.

0:09:09 Eli: Of them. But they're balanced, they're perfectly situated.

0:09:12 Thomas: Okay. Mine aren't balanced. So I get lucky there. Mine are just always half finished and I'm a busser. I forget if I've said this, I'm the fucking busser of the household. I hate having dishes, trash, trash, anything, anywhere. So I'm always clearing. I'm always busing and that the word, the most annoying thing for a busser is a half finished drink that looks like no one's ever going to finish it. But also maybe they are because it's fucking sitting there half finished. I just finished stuff. Is it just me? If I, if I go to have something, I finish it and then I'm done with it or like, or I don't, I don'T understand. It's the weirdest thing.

0:09:13 Tom: Oh, oh,

0:09:13 Eli: Yep. Yeah.

0:09:21 Tom: No.

0:09:40 Tom: I I'm the neat nick of the house, and everybody else in my house is a fucking Tasmanian Devil, like, Tasmanians Devil slash pig pen like whatever that like portmanteau horror might be, that is literally every other person in my entire house, and it makes me insane, but I've accepted a certain level of just like chaos and anarchy that is just going to be part of loving this family.

0:10:08 Thomas: Yeah.

0:10:09 Tom: So it's like fine, but I'm, I've got it in my head, and I've, it's been five years, and I refuse to let this go, that like I'll straighten up and I'll put everybody's shit that they don't put away on a different stair, right, it's got to go upstairs, and so, like, and so at, like, your shit goes on this stair and your shit goes on there, and there's never any Tom's there, by the way, right, like there is no Tom

0:10:22 Thomas: I love it. I I love that. He lives in a four -story house, by the way. I don't know if we said this. Still no stairs.

0:10:34 Tom: Is it right? Yeah, so they're

0:10:32 Eli: I mean to be fair, Tom, whenever you're done with things, you throw them away like your dad's.

0:10:39 Tom: All trashed. I bring, they're already, they're either broken or thrown away. Yeah, but but it's neat, it's, it's clean and tidy, so but, and I have it in my head that if I put on the stair and I point it out that like all they have to do is just grab it off the step, they're already going to go upstairs. And I've literally nobody has ever picked their shit up, not once. Yep.

0:10:39 Eli: Exactly. Yeah.

0:10:42 Thomas: Hey, but that's neat. That's clean.

0:10:58 Eli: See,

0:10:52 Thomas: Yep. Oh, my God, Tom. This is my world. This is the whole life. I try to make it so easy on myself. By the way, it's mostly for me, too, I'm like, oh, I need to remember to take this bullshit somewhere. I'll put it so that I would have to trip over it and die unless I picked it up and and that's how I do it. And but like somehow it's just I'm the only one doing that. It's just it's okay. Just for me

0:11:01 Tom: Right. Yep.

0:11:16 Eli: See,

0:11:15 Tom: I do the same thing, like if I need to remember something, I'll put my keys on top of it, so I can't leave without it.

0:11:18 Thomas: Yeah, or put in front of the door or put it. Yeah, exactly

0:11:20 Tom: Yeah, yes.

0:11:21 Eli: I have the eternal stair pile, because for the opposite, right, the person who's nameless that Anna lives with, which which is that I will, as you guys have seen on the terrifying video calls we've done, I will leave an infinite amount of clutter everywhere, right? I won't do dirt, but clutter absolutely everywhere. I don't even see it, right, Anna will be like, "Hey, you brought 67 magic books downstairs because you were looking for this one card trick." I will neatly pile them into a pyramid shaped like a Womp, with a sign on the front that says, "Please take me upstairs." Stairs, and I'll just crawl, I'll be like, "I don't remember the stairs having a Wamp on it," but that's okay, I'll, I like gain parkour skills, I do a perfect six foot vertical leap over the Wamp and just make my way upstairs for bed in the in the clutter.

0:11:35 Thomas: Yes You're gonna lose your kid someday just in the crap you have on your floor

0:12:12 Tom: I'm surprised Max hasn't climbed into a cabinet, never to reappear, because every cabinet in your, your entire house is perpetually open. I don't know how somebody hasn't lost an eye or had a fucking traumatic brain injury from banging into one of those things.

0:12:17 Thomas: Yeah,

0:12:12 Eli: Yeah. I my mother. And I, my mom visited recently and I, I had this conversation with her where I was like, "Hey, do you know that most people close their cabinet doors?" And she was like, "What?" And we just had this perfect beautiful moment where me and my mom were like, "Yeah, I have no idea why," and she was like, "What if they want something from that cabinet?" And I was like, "They reopened the door." And she was like, "Why would you do that, that's for like that's insane."

0:12:46 Thomas: Yeah, do you drive, when you drive your car, you keep all four car doors open, you know, it's just, yeah.

0:12:52 Tom: Because, yeah, exactly.

0:12:53 Thomas: You might want to get out.

0:12:50 Eli: I'm

0:12:54 Tom: Ever turn, you know what, in the wintertime, I turn my heat on, I'm going to need heat again, so I just leave it on all summer. That's a crazy thing to say, Eli.

0:13:03 Thomas: There another thing that is that thing you're looking for. It's just a shelf. You just can have shelves there. You don't need the door that take the doors off. Tom, let's go over. We're going to go over to his house.

0:13:10 Tom: Yeah, take the doors off. I'm telling you, I

0:13:15 Thomas: We'RE going to fix his fucking audio setup. Yeah. We 'Re going to take off the doors.

0:13:15 Tom: Am going to bring a fucking power tools.

0:13:18 Eli: Saying Yeah.

0:13:19 Thomas: He'll never know that's the thing he won't know that it happened so

0:13:20 Tom: He'll won't notice at all.

0:13:21 Eli: I won't notice that's fair, but we lived in a perfect alternate universe for the rest of the weekend. Mom would be like, "Oh, you just took a pickle from in that picker jar. Make sure you close the jar right away." Just in case you needed a, oh yeah.

0:13:22 Tom: Won't even know no But that's what, yeah, you take things out of the container, then you close the container and put the container away.

0:13:38 Thomas: You and your mom were mocking just basic humanity, just normal.

0:13:38 Tom: Oh.

0:13:42 Thomas: Oh,

0:13:42 Tom: Look at me, I'm functional.

0:13:46 Thomas: I got something out of the fridge, I guess I better close the fridge. Look at me, why

0:13:49 Eli: We were That's another thing. People get mad when I leave my fridge open, they're like, "Your food's gonna go bad." I'm like, it's been like three minutes. Relax, how poorly maintained is your fridge?

0:13:56 Tom: Yes. What, why? Are you like, what you'll just wait a minute, you'll just walk away from your refrigerator while it's open? Excuse

0:14:04 Thomas: Are you like this yeah no

0:14:08 Eli: I'll keep my fridge opened the entire time I cook, the entire type, the entire I I have never seen more violent reactions to behavior than me leaving a fridge door open for as long as I do. Do you know the story about Noah accidentally cleaning my entire apartment when he was high because it's, it's the perfect example. So Noah once stayed with me and Anna when we lived in our one bedroom in New York, um, it was like our house but even more so because there wasn't as much space to spread all this shit out over so Nick, Noah stays with us because he's going with Skeptics Convention or something, and during the night he wakes up and he, like, notices that there's, of course, my beard trimmings all over the sink, and he's like, "Ah, I

0:14:14 Tom: Me, what the fuck is

0:14:27 Thomas: Same.

0:14:40 Thomas: Amount of stuff but yeah. Wow.

0:14:53 Tom: What?

0:14:53 Eli: Gotta clean it because I gotta use the sink," so he washes it, but then he realizes that now the sink is clean and the rest of the bathroom is dirty, and it's gonna feel like he's criticizing us, so he proceeds to clean the the entire bathroom.

0:15:06 Thomas: That's very. Okay. I Yeah.

0:15:09 Tom: That is So considerate.

0:15:10 Eli: But then he's like No shit, now I just cleaned one room of their house, that's weird, yes.

0:15:10 Tom: Yeah,

0:15:10 Thomas: I wouldn't have thought so. So must be blasted out of his mind then. This is way too considerate.

0:15:17 Eli: Absolutely, so no, no, ended up doing like a perfect, like, "dead body was found in this apartment" deep clean of our apartment based on a couple of my beard hairs, and I guarantee no one's ever done that for any of you guys, so you know, think about it.

0:15:18 Tom: Yeah this is

0:15:18 Thomas: Yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah, oh my God.

0:15:28 Tom: I gotta invite Noah over when he's high though, that is the, that's the lesson that I've just learned right now.

0:15:36 Thomas: Yeah it's true.

0:15:36 Eli: That's right, yeah, you could just say no, invite Noah over and you'll, you'll get that version I

0:15:39 Thomas: Yeah exactly. I'm going to guess Eli that you either don't have an ice maker or you don't ever have a functioning ice maker. I'm just going to guess.

0:15:43 Tom: I'm sorry for the redundancy. No,

0:15:52 Eli: Don't even know what that is.

0:15:52 Thomas: You know what I mean?

0:15:53 Eli: What is an ice maker?

0:15:53 Thomas: Oh okay. Is this only a California thing? See it's all, we're always on fire here So, you know, we have an ice maker in our fridge to make ice.

0:15:54 Eli: Oh.

0:16:01 Tom: We have an ice maker in our fridge. It's the the biggest piece of shit that's ever been made. Yeah, it

0:16:01 Eli: In the door I'm

0:16:02 Thomas: Yeah, and if yours is the biggest piece of shit that's ever made, it could be because you're leaving your fridge open for an hour at a time. If I leave my fridge open from more than, I don't know, a second, then the next time I try to get ice, it's like, meh, fuck, can't do it. Because it all slightly melts and then refreezes, and then it's just a, yeah, it' just a big glob of ice.

0:16:20 Tom: Oh.

0:16:22 Eli: Gonna say something and you guys aren't gonna believe me, it's gonna be really hard for you, and I want you to know that this is true. You're not gonna believe me, you can see it next time you're at my home. My ice dispenser, which is in my freezer, is filled with vegan chicken nuggets, and I, every time I buy vegan chicken nuggets, I dump them into the, the ice dispenser, and when I want, when I want chicken nuggets, I just go over and I press on the ice dispenser.

0:16:27 Tom: My god I'm bracing myself right now. Oh,

0:16:50 Thomas: Please tell me You get them out of the, like, shoot, that actually that would be amazing. Do

0:16:51 Eli: Yep. No,

0:16:53 Tom: Well, he has to press the button Thomas whether he wants crushed or cubed nuggets.

0:16:54 Eli: I do it on the outside of the fridge yeah No, I just press on the outside and it just

0:16:59 Thomas: You ever hit the crush button, the crushed, crushed chicken?

0:17:01 Eli: No No, this is an old fridge, there's no crust, it just releases nuggets. Like, man, just dumps nuggets onto my plate until I'm happy. They

0:17:03 Thomas: Oh, okay, you know what, that's better, that's actually better, I actually, let you know, what you're wrong, you're like, I like that better about you. Then it would be like, no, we just have an ice maker, and I didn't know why it was broken all the time, but it turns, turns out it's because I leave the fucking fridge open. No, this is great. You're using your ice maker. That's fantastic.

0:17:25 Eli: See, the first time my mother saw me do that, it was her "we need to talk about Kevin" moment, right? She was just like, I don't know where I messed up, but I did, and it's no going back now, babe.

0:17:36 Tom: How do we transition into anything meaningful, meaningful, yeah

0:17:43 Thomas: Well, speaking of none of that.

0:17:45 Eli: Of none of that I have yet another baby cold, um, so I would like to talk about something very near and very dear to my heart, which is baby medicine, the most insane thing on the planet. Second to my chicken nugget dispenser. Yeah, on baby medicine, are the craziest I've ever, first of all, the second your baby's born, Tylenol, give them as much tylenone as you want, they just popped out, literally, they open their mouths for the first cry, squirt some, some Tylenol in there. Enjoy it. At six months, they can have ibuprofen. And

0:17:45 Tom: There we go what

0:18:00 Thomas: Second to your chicken nugget dispenser. It's fine. Yeah.

0:18:02 Tom: Okay.

0:18:22 Thomas: Mmm.

0:18:22 Eli: I don't know if either of you guys remember this, but this is a huge event because ibupropan lasts six to eight hours instead of four to six hours, which means you do not need to go into your baby's room to re-squirt the baby medicine into their mouths halfway through the night because they've woken up in like teething pain or earache pain if they got an ear infection or something, cough, right? So that's it. That's all you get until they're four fucking years old.

0:18:50 Thomas: Wow.

0:18:50 Eli: That's it! You can give them nothing else until they're four years old. Four years old is when they can get the NyQuil and the DayQuil, the shit that like no other country in the world has. And then if you try to describe it to Europeans, they're like, that seems like a bad idea. And you're just like, no, it's a big, it's a big orange bottle. You drink it so you don't have have to use your sick day that year and they're like, oh, this seems like a mustache. Perhaps all the medicines in one big thick gooey liquid is no good.

0:19:19 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:19:19 Eli: And you're like, shut the fuck up, Yurgy.

0:19:21 Thomas: Yeah. I've got my shampoo conditioner, deodorant, toothpaste, and also my medicine is every possible.

0:19:26 Eli: Quill, right. And I've also got my quill when you try to describe the NyQuil Daequil phenomenon to Europeans and then you explain that so many people were abusively using Nyquill to go to sleep that they just made a product based on it, right?

0:19:28 Thomas: Yeah, every possible medicine in one.

0:19:28 Tom: That's all, yeah,

0:19:42 Thomas: Yeah!

0:19:42 Eli: Imagine if they were like, fentanyl bites, like, "We noticed a bunch of you guys are really enjoying these, now available next to Fanta."

0:19:51 Tom: So I only thing I wrote down in preparation for this episode is a, is a, what I think I'm gonna have to have as a recurring segment of Tom just realized how bad his luck was on this show, because I was born in 1978, because I'm a million years old, and I don't know if these rules were around in 1978, but no, no, this, the, this, the specific rule I'm going to mention, but you definitely cannot give your babies aspirin. If you give a baby aspirin, they run the risk of developing something called Rise syndrome, which is like, like, potentially deadly, and it like affects your liver, and you know, it's a big deal. So of course my mom gave me aspirin when I was a, a baby. So I had, it turns out I had Rise syndrome as, as a baby, and it's, it's

0:19:51 Thomas: Oh,

0:19:51 Eli: No

0:20:08 Thomas: God, no. Yeah hmm.

0:20:09 Eli: Nope. Yup.

0:20:35 Thomas: You did

0:20:36 Tom: Like I did. Yeah. I had rise syndromes.

0:20:36 Thomas: Holy shit what is it, I don't even know what this is, oof.

0:20:40 Tom: A pretty rare, but serious condition that causes swelling in the brain and liver damage. And it's just an overall bad deal. And it's caused by giving your kids aspirin. I don't know if the admonition not to give kids aspirine was around in 1978, but

0:20:55 Thomas: And if it was, would it have mattered to your mom? Yeah. Yeah

0:20:58 Tom: Yeah, right.

0:20:58 Eli: Uh, she would have given you double, like, oh no, I know how they do the Rise thing, who's doing, he know the problem is, he fought the last aspirin tablet away from the monkey, Tom.

0:21:06 Thomas: Holy

0:21:02 Tom: Right. So I did have to laugh because I was like, baby medicine. Like, what's the... oh, yeah, I guess that is kind of a thing. It almost killed me when I was a little guy. All right, yeah.

0:21:15 Thomas: Shit.

0:21:15 Tom: All right, fair. Enough, yeah.

0:21:15 Thomas: Do You get cured of it or something, or do you just

0:21:18 Tom: It just, it, it goes away, you know, like, it, it's no treatment for it, you just, it's just supportive care and you wait for it to to go away, so That's it, so So,

0:21:19 Thomas: Wow. Yeah.

0:21:28 Eli: Tom. Is, is that what doctors recommender is that just what your mom did? Nope, there's no cure for this, Tom. Here, Just Put your Head in this wheelbarrow and get yourself to school, Kiddo.

0:21:34 Thomas: But There's No, Treatment Treatment Oh, Shit.

0:21:34 Tom: No, like, I was hospitalized for it, so, like I think that was like, yeah, oh yeah, because it's like, it's not supposed to get that, it was a bad deal, but I was a baby, so I didn't fucking, you don't know anything, fucking babies are trash, and everything's fine, so, but Yeah, it just, it cracked me up, because the only, the relatable, because I don't remember it being that big a deal when my kids were little, even like a few years ago, Eli, it's just like, you gave him ibuprofen and that was like kind of like not a problem, although I do know that some new studies have come out suggesting that even acetaminophen can be really problematic for little guys too, so there's just some brand new studies about acetaminophene coming out that say, hey, you know, this is uh, there's some potential links to acetaminophen use and and some uh longer term issues like ADHD.

0:21:45 Thomas: Wow. Yeah.

0:21:53 Eli: Mm.

0:22:04 Eli: -hmm. Joe.

0:22:27 Eli: All right, well, then my son will never focus on anything, because that kid, that kid has had Tylenol more than he's had water. Right, it's just that Tylenole every 45 seconds since he was born, so

0:22:39 Tom: 45 seconds since he was born, he looks mildly uncomfortable, give him Tylenol.

0:22:44 Eli: Literally. Every time, we, every, my son will be like "ah" and I'll be like, Tyler, he's making a noise of pain, I'm already squirting it in his mouth, way ahead of him, forever. So, yeah, Max, if you're listening to this from whatever, you know, institution they have for like maximum security ADHD patients, right, where you, like, you can't pay attention so you become unstuck in time, like if you're hanging out with the Traumatorians, I apologize for how much Tylenol I gave you, so. So, well, here's the interesting thing. So, I want to caveat this, right, I'm not a doctor and I don't know anything. And this is something I read and I probably didn't understand. But all that out of the way, do you guys know why there's no, like, kids NyQuil anymore? Because it's actually super recent.

0:23:27 Tom: They find it didn't work, it didn't do anything. Doesn'T do anything, yeah.

0:23:29 Eli: It doesn't fucking work. So here's

0:23:31 Tom: It

0:23:31 Eli: The thing. In 2004, 2006, I donno, I read the whole study. I, like, really tried to look this up and then I was like, don't really try to look it up because then you'll act competent. So, 2000, blah, they had a bunch of overdoses of kids NyQuil and they were like, ah, fuck, man, these kids are really overdosing on this, you know, Nyquill Junior for babies, let's, let's pause for a second, so they paused and they did this massive study to see like dosages and which age it was good for, and they found that before the age of four the answer is, it doesn't work at all. The most effective thing that they found for coughs and colds and like, like, phlegm and that stuff in kids, was No, it was honey, was the like bee stuff, honey.

That giving kids a squirt of honey actually helped more, because little kids can't get a heavy enough dosage of the Quill for it to matter, right? It's not that NyQuil and DayQuil aren't real. It's just that you, like, in order to get a certain amount of that into your body, you need an adult sized body for it work. And like, there's all sorts of stuff about how medicines aren't made for all people, blah, blah, like, won't go down that rabbit hole. Also, keep in mind I don't know anything and I'm full of shit, but I thought that was so fucking interesting, that the reason this baby medicine vanished, like, it recently, right, within the last 20

0:24:09 Tom: Was a soundproof wall, yeah.

0:24:14 Thomas: Wow.

0:24:47 Eli: Years, is they were just like, we should check if that works, and it doesn't.

0:24:51 Tom: I What, what I find particularly disturbing about that is that for years and years prior, that means nobody checked to see if it worked. Right. So It was like out there and they're just like, does it work? We're not here to ask that fucking question, Steve, we're here to sell this fucking green goo, that's what we do. I

0:25:00 Thomas: Well, that's the thing. That's

0:25:00 Eli: Yeah.

0:25:09 Thomas: The challenge of all human health anything is, because most of it is like, well, it just sucks, and then wait, like, a day, and then it probably suck less, and because of that we're always like, well, but give me something for it, and then you take something and you're like, like, wow, I took that, and then a day later, it sucked less.

0:25:25 Thomas: I was like, what, you mean the thing that was definitely going to happen anyway? Yeah. I rubbed my magical rocks together, and it felt way better the next day.

0:25:25 Tom: Felt Better. Yeah. Yeah.

0:25:33 Eli: Bottle of Quill, which, which brings me to a really interesting thing that again, I've wanted to talk about forever on this show, which is that all of the cough medicine, right, so if you were a parent to a young child right now and you go to the baby aisle, the infant and kids aisle, and look at those cough medicines there, right single one of them is homeopathic bullshit, all of them, right, if you go, because I remember the first time Max got a cough, right, when he was however many months old, I was like, there must be cough medicine for kids, and was, I was like, how, how did homeopathy corner this market? But it's actually a huge thing, is if you go to the baby aisle, you will find Tylenol, which is real, ibuprofen, which is real, sometimes children aspirin, but it's really limited because that Rise thing, which I was going to talk about, but the rest of it is just like straight up pseudoscience, echinacea, mommy's friend,

0:25:56 Tom: I Love.

0:26:29 Eli: You know, lilac root bullshit, yeah.

0:26:32 Thomas: Turmeric, yeah.

0:26:33 Eli: And, and nobody will be like, hey, by the way, this is bullshit, because, like, look, there are very few people you should give fake medicine to less than a parent with a sick baby,

0:26:44 Thomas: Oh, yeah, in

0:26:44 Eli: Right, Yes.

0:26:45 Tom: It because, like, that's basically the, here are the dirts you can rub on, an aisle. Like that is what it is, like, "I rub some dirt on it." "Well, which one?" "Well, I go down aisle three, there is a bunch of dirts that you can buy to rub on it," that

0:26:50 Eli: Well,

0:26:56 Thomas: A way, though, as long as it does absolutely nothing, then, like, maybe is the way to go.

0:27:03 Tom: Placebo wouldn't even work in a baby, yeah.

0:27:05 Thomas: Yeah, the only thing that it will do is make the parent think they did something, which is all that really needs to happen anyway. Because when you have a cough, sorry to break this to you, Eli, that I honestly, what you usually have to do is just have a cough and then it stops eventually, is usually there's nothing to do about it.

0:27:20 Tom: Yeah.

0:27:21 Eli: No, I mean, what I do is I take like 97 different, different medications in a bottle of Dayquil a day. But I agree to disagree on that, Tom. No, but like, here's the interesting thing. Unfortunately, you wish it was just nothing, but because those medicines and products don't have the same level of oversight, they often contain poison and kill babies.

0:27:31 Thomas: Oh

0:27:43 Tom: They Have like mercury and shit in them, yeah. Yeah. Because

0:27:44 Thomas: God no way jeez

0:27:45 Eli: Yeah. Yeah, they don't know if to be made in the same.

0:27:47 Tom: Nobody's driving, man, yeah.

0:27:48 Eli: Yeah. And they don' have to be in the kind of facilities. They don't to go through the same same kind of testing. They don't have to go through the same, like, safety procedures. Like, even the bottles don't Have to be tamper -proof in the same way. They voluntarily make them tamperproof bottles so that you feel like you're getting medicine because you could just fucking chug that, right?

0:27:57 Thomas: Because it's not medicine right yeah what the fuck this is not

0:28:09 Tom: Yeah. There's... there's no regulation to make sure that it's not cross-contaminated, like, it's just like, I don't know, regulate yourselves, it's a baby, like, We don't let you do that for any other thing that goes inside of a baby.

0:28:11 Thomas: Yeah wow

0:28:17 Eli: And, And, keep in mind, not to get too down the homeopathy is bullshit rabbit hole, but you have to remember that the policy of homeop, the principle of homeopathy is like, cures like, which means that, like, if, if ginger root gives me a headache, then taking a homeopathic version of ginger root will cure my headache, which means very often the root thing in homeopathic medicine is poisonous or bad for you, and so, multiple times, and this isn't like a once in a million time, people have made homeopathic medicines that are filled with poison that make you sick, because that's what homeopathy is supposed to be made out of, and they just accidentally get too much of the fucking witch bane's wart in there or whatever the fuck it is.

0:29:02 Thomas: Wow.

0:29:07 Tom: So When Finn was little guy, little, little guy, two, something like that, I flew with him, uh, San Diego, so from Chicago to San Diego, it's like, it's a long flight, like four plus hours, and it's funny because the, the prevailing advice that I got for flying with a baby on an airplane, back in like 2006, 2007, was Benadryl. Give your kid Benadryl.

0:29:30 Eli: Benadryl. Yeah.

0:29:34 Thomas: Yeah.

0:29:35 Tom: So I gave my kid Benadryl and I basically like fucking knocked him out. Like I fucking chloroformed my baby in order to make it like more convenient, yeah.

0:29:41 Thomas: Yep. To kidnap your child. Yeah, I

0:29:45 Tom: Right I said yeah, to make a, I will say it worked a fucking charm, it I don't want to say it, did it, worked the fucking charm. Four hour flight, little guy was asleep. I gave it to him like a half hour before the flight and I was like, this is a great idea. And then you Google later, you know, and it's because, I mean, this was just like pervade, this was regular everyday advice in 2000, everybody, everybody I talked to, oh yeah, absolutely, god, just give him a little Benadryl, be just fine, gave him a little Benadryl, he was just fine. And then it's like you go to read ads, like that's a really dangerous thing to do for a baby And I'm like, oh, oh, oh shit for

0:29:45 Eli: Yep

0:29:50 Thomas: Know. It's it's really for a baby. OK, I

0:30:21 Eli: For a baby

0:30:22 Tom: A baby

0:30:22 Eli: Yeah

0:30:22 Thomas: Was going to say, yeah, here's here's why I have mixed feelings on this, as I've mentioned previous times a million times. Sorry, but Arlo has a billion allergies.

0:30:22 Eli: For really little ones yeah just

0:30:29 Thomas: And so we constantly have to give him Benadryl or, you know, and it's like so I guess coming from that mindset, I'm like, yeah. He always has a hive or something. If we were flying, I could just like give him Benadryl. He'll probably fall asleep. He'll be fine. Although he would be the best flyer probably. He's such a, he's just loves his solitude. I could probably just give him like a book and he would just sit there and just like look at it.

0:30:22 Tom: Yeah mm -hmm right

0:30:48 Eli: Sit

0:30:49 Tom: You just sit and happily page it through

0:30:49 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, he is.

0:30:51 Eli: There he like The woman comes over and he chooses nicely between chips and cookies. He's like, he's not one of those guys who's like, give me both, Ray, he's really cool about it. So here's the funny thing, when you sleep train your baby, and sleep training is a whole another episode which we should talk about, you know, because there's tons of pseudoscience there. And that's also like, I think that's one of the few, well, not one in the few, one of the really intense areas of parenting where an otherwise sane and like really nice person will be like, you are abusing your child, and you have to be like, yee, right.

0:30:55 Tom: Right

0:30:57 Thomas: Yeah.

0:31:21 Tom: Well

0:31:21 Thomas: Can also wait until Skombert, is you going to be, yeah.

0:31:23 Eli: Yes exactly Um, one of the things that they tell you now, because that's such a common thing, is like, just give them a little Benadryl, is when you start to sleep train, my pediatrician was like, hey, hey, drug your baby, okay, I know you're, they, it puts them to sleep, you can't stop it, don't drug your baby, yeah.

0:31:39 Thomas: I think he was just going based on the looks of you. I think it was just profiling.

0:31:41 Eli: I'm sure he was just looking at me and he was like, like, this is a guy.

0:31:44 Tom: He's making some fairly broad assumptions, though.

0:31:47 Thomas: Do have mixed feelings because oftentimes it's not the airplane, and again, it's not babies, and we didn't give it to babies, but like whenever they have, someone has a reaction, or if they have a cough, you do give them the Benadryl, and then for at nighttime, and they just pass right out, and it does feel a little bit like you're drugging your child for them to sleep better, but I guess I would drug myself to sleep better. I don't know.

0:32:01 Eli: I do drug myself to sleep. I'm like, I take NyQuil for six years. I cough once and I'm doing a bottle of Jack and a bottle of NyQuill mixed together. And I just shake that shit up and crack it with a red ball. I'm ready to go.

0:32:08 Thomas: Yeah.

0:32:12 Tom: Um

0:32:23 Thomas: This is all, that is all fake. That is just letting everybody know.

0:32:23 Tom: I guess I don't do that don't

0:32:26 Thomas: Don't do that at home.

0:32:27 Eli: No, for me, I do that for me. I'm allowed to do that. For me, don't you tell me how to live my life.

0:32:28 Tom: You that I

0:32:32 Thomas: Talking to our listeners. I know you're going to kill yourself with this, but it's fine.

0:32:35 Eli: That's right.

0:32:35 Thomas: Huh?

0:32:35 Tom: Called cough variant asthma, this of this is like a kids that get sick thing, I do want to complain about like kids getting sick and doctors find having a fucking bad job figuring out, but I, I was a little kid, I get this like cough, like this cough that would, it would, it would be persistent for literally for months, every day coughing my fucking heart out, cough till like blood vessels break in your eyes, I'm just like constantly coughing, never fucking figured out what it was, until, no shit, and I had this from like probably started third, fourth grade, and I had it every year, so every year I'd get like your winter cold, the cold would turn into this cough off, and I'd have this cough for seriously two to three months.

Wasn't until I was in my early thirties that a doctor was like, "Have you been tested for asthma?" I'm like, I don't wheeze or anything. Like, "No, there's a cough variant of asthma." Settles, you get a trigger and you just got to treat it like asthma. I was like, "No." And they tested me for cough variant asthma, and it was like, "Oh, a hundred percent, that's the problem." And then I just have an inhaler, and I've never had the problem since. So,

0:33:32 Thomas: Wow.

0:33:32 Tom: I lived with it for like 25 25 years, and then they're like actually yeah So I relate to Eli's story about the cough medicine and drinking, so I would, every single year of my life without exception, I would cough for months and months and month, and like I would cough hard enough to break a rib.

0:33:33 Thomas: Yeah, there is so much stuff like that.

0:33:49 Tom: I mean it was like a bad cough, you know, and so I get this uh cough medicine with codeine, and like, when you're coughing like a son of a bitch and you just don't sleep, so like you're also going like long periods of time with like very little rest. And what I discovered is like the codeine cough medicine kind of worked, but two beers with your codeine cough medicine.

0:33:49 Thomas: Oh, oh,

0:33:52 Eli: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

0:34:11 Eli: Baby. Yeah.

0:34:12 Tom: And it's the worst idea ever.

0:34:12 Thomas: Don't no one do any of this. Yeah

0:34:15 Tom: Do not do this. Like I had no idea.

0:34:15 Thomas: Yeah, do not do any of this listeners, please.

0:34:18 Tom: Don't do it.

0:34:18 Eli: If you hate having a

0:34:19 Tom: It's terrible.

0:34:19 Eli: Good time, don't do it, everybody,

0:34:21 Tom: Don'T DO IT. But I was like, God, I sleep so well. And then like, that's again, one of those things where you look Yeah, actually mixing any kind of opiate with alcohol is like respiratory arrest.

0:34:30 Thomas: It's really not good.

0:34:31 Tom: But it was like the chances we took, you're just like, ah, you know what? I sleep better. I get a little better rest when I get closer to death. That's the nicest sleep.

0:34:32 Eli: Yeah.

0:34:31 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, well, Apropos of nothing, this led to my absolute hatred of Tylenol. I was going to joke earlier. The reason you can give your baby Tylenols because it doesn't fucking do anything. It is nothing like it's just absolute nothing. I hate it. What happened to me was I discovered that I think I guess I discovered that I might have an allergy to codeine because when I got my tonsils out, that's what they gave me. I got my tonsils out as an adult, like, like later in life. Yeah. Cause they, oh

0:35:03 Tom: Oh, I got to talk to you about that because I got to get that done. I've heard it's terrible.

0:35:07 Thomas: It wasn't that bad, but I'll tell you, I I'm really glad I did. I've always, for some reason, my family, I wonder if my kids will, yeah, that'll be interesting topic to, to figure out with the kids, if it's worth getting theirs out. Because my, I think my family's always had just like really, I don't know, big tonsils or something. And it's just like really weird and, and sick more often or get coughing more often.

0:35:26 Tom: Yeah, Finn had his out.

0:35:27 Thomas: And yeah,

0:35:27 Eli: I had mine out as a kid.

0:35:28 Thomas: I'm so glad mine are gone. It's fantastic. So I would highly recommend it, but because I was an adult, you know, it's a little more complicated and sucky and they gave me the codeine. It was the, the painkiller. And so when I first got done, I was like, Oh, this isn't so bad, but it was because the fucking drugs of the procedure were still kind of, you Know, and I was Like, Oh no, I am doing okay. You know, a little pain, but I I feel fine.

And then I go to sleep and I wake up and I'm like, Oh God, this is not good. So I take the codeine stuff. When I took the codeines stuff, my head exploded. I don't even know how to describe it, but like the whole back of my neck and head, just like it was the worst pain ever.

And I called and they're like, well, try, uh, don't try not taking that and just take the, So I was like, oh, okay, well, I'll just take a million Tylenols. Does fucking nothing. God. So, I had to go from like, should I take this thing that I might be allergic to? And the pain's a little better, except my head was exploding. Like, it literally felt like it was going to blow up. Or do I just not and take this Tylenrol that, as far as I can tell, is a nothing. Like it's air, maybe. It's just a pill

0:36:35 Eli: Yeah.

0:36:35 Thomas: That has air in it.

0:36:35 Eli: No. They Anna had a cesarean and they wanted to give her Tylenol and ibuprofen, and I was like, abso-fucking-lutely not. And they were like, well, you know, we really like to see how she does on the Tylenol and the ibuprofen first. And I was like, hey, lady, we didn't, like, have a baby to get our Jones on. Get me some fuck, get me the real shit.

0:36:57 Eli: I want you to have to press your thumb to something to get my wife the pain medication. I want You to turn a key at the same time as another attending to get her her medicine. But yeah,

0:37:07 Tom: Well, And it's crazy, like acetaminophen, like there's people poison themselves and die on acetaminophen on the regular. It's, it's like super toxic if you take too much acetaminophen. Like, you know what's interesting about Tylenol too, is, and I just found this out, I was just reading an article about this, I don't know, maybe two months ago, it's one of those things that they don't know how it works mechanistically.

0:37:26 Thomas: Oh yeah. That's almost everything. I feel like.

0:37:28 Tom: And They've done, it's just like it's a painkiller and a fever reducer. Yeah, what does it do? We're not 100 sure about the mechanism, but Uh, we do know if you take too much it'll damage your liver and you'll die. Yeah, so

0:37:35 Thomas: Yeah.

0:37:36 Eli: We're still testing these baby cough medicines. We'll let you know when we find out about acetaminophen.

0:37:43 Tom: Have you guys had any any issues with your kids where they've had to have like serious medical attention at all? What

0:37:49 Eli: Had an emergency, we had one emergency room visit. Was during the peak of COVID. The second COVID. Yeah, sorry. Peak of COVID is confusing because there've been so many. Oh, during the second peak.

0:37:58 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, which of the seven peaks are you talking about?

0:38:01 Eli: Right, exactly. You know, it's a little mountain range there during the second peak of COVID during that January COVID spike. My son was running around with the babysitter was running around, me and Anna were actually on a date night, he fell and hit his mouth on my weights, and busted his lip open and was just like bleeding. And stop crying. And was, you know, he does that thing where he cries so hard that he gagged, so then he threw up and so he was bleeding and vomiting and our poor babysitter, who was so amazing, called us and was like, "I have killed your baby, I'm so sorry," uh and so they actually ended up going to the emergency room and they waited for, I think, four and a half hours, um and didn't get seen, uh did not get seen, uh, four and half hours.

He eventually just fell asleep in Anna's arms and we were like, "Hey, hey, if he's asleep in your arms, he's probably fine." So we just took him home and put him to bed. But that, that the, maybe there's an episode someday to talk about how, like, how COVID changed us. And like, there's a comedy show, try to keep it fun, drink a bottle of NyQuil, definitely do some coding and some beers at the same time.

Like, I try to keep it fun. But like, when you talk about like the way that COVID changed our mindset, that, that was a moment for me where I was like, OK, that thing that I've lived my whole life assuming, which is that if someone is hurt, you can go to the hospital

0:38:26 Tom: Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah, I know. Yeah.

0:38:34 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

0:38:45 Thomas: COVID man. Yeah well

0:39:24 Tom: Oh

0:39:24 Eli: And someone will take care of you. That was over. I And made changes, major changes to our life and our finances because I no longer trusted those systems.

0:39:24 Tom: Yeah. No.

0:39:36 Eli: Right. That was such an important event to how I don't want to get too traumatic, but like essentially changed the way that I think about medicine. Right. I have always thought of medicine up until that point. I always thought of medicine as like this incredible public good, and that doctors and nurses and people who work in hospitals, you know, they might be overworked. They might be underfunded, but they're doing their best. They're trying really hard. Um, that moment really changed my mindset in a way that I stopped thinking of it as like a public thing and started thinking of what happens to my family, and for my family, um, there's serious injury because this system is not what I thought it was. Yeah.

0:39:36 Thomas: It

0:39:41 Tom: Yeah no.

0:40:20 Thomas: Just got maxed out you so I had the ER visit I was going to talk about, actually um, during the first COVID it was sort of later in COVID though. It was, uh, it was kind of probably after like the first big peak. Um, I've been, uh. I've never wanted to tell this one for a while. Um, is a tough thing when you have more than one kid. What do you do when one of your kids actually murders your other kid? What do yo do?

0:40:22 Eli: Yeah.

0:40:43 Eli: Everything.

0:40:44 Thomas: This were playing, you know, you don't think it's one of those things where you think nothing of it until the thing happens and you're like, "Oh fuck." Yeah, no, what was happening, kids had set up the chairs. Oh, that's what it was. Oh, it makes me feel extra bad. We because everybody was so, you know, we were bored and cooped inside and whatever, we set up the little chairs for them to sit near the living room to eat, because I think we're gonna like watch something and eat dinner, you know, which we never do, we actually, you know, we always have them like eat at the table kind of thing, we're like, "Oh, you know, well, let you kind of suck sometimes, we'll be like, ah, we'll let you eat dinner and watch."

It's a fun little novelty for the kids sometimes, times and we set up, I think Lydia set up the little chairs near there, and we have this coffee table that is, uh, you for adults to use, you know, and then you realize every object is a fucking life or death object for a kid, like it just is, like it's crazy, you look all around the house, the first thing when you get a, even not even, even just a baby, a baby's one thing, a toddler that runs around and has no fucking balance, like they just are running and tripping all the time, you look at everything in your house, you're like, this is nice, everything

0:40:56 Tom: Yeah.

0:41:48 Thomas: Is a knife, like, everything's a rock,

0:41:49 Tom: It makes you really rethink the Iron Throne in the living room.

0:41:50 Eli: Is A Knife. Yep. Everything

0:41:50 Thomas: Yeah, no, that stays, ha,

0:41:52 Tom: Yeah

0:41:52 Eli: Everything's a knife. The the day Max pulled himself to his feet for the first time, Anna threw our coffee kid table in the garbage, like- Literally, he pulled himself up on the coffee table, she was like, "Oh my god, what a wonderful special day," and- Then I came downstairs later and I was like, "Where is the coffee table?" And she was like, "It's dead now, they're all dead." Sure.

0:42:02 Thomas: Yes, yes! Everything, you're, like-, this is-, everything is, is a guillotine, everything is a fucking-, it's impossible, it's all boulders, you know, and it's-, all it is, is a wooden coffee table, wouldn't think anything of it if you're an adult, um, and so they're playing, they start because they're kids, they start playing on everything, they can't just, they don't just sit and eat their whatever, they start praying and I was probably, I working or editing because I'm always fucking doing that and seem fine whatever, they're praying, and was any night, it was, was any normal night, and then we just hear all of a sudden Phoebe say, "Fly," and she pushes Arlo, baby Arlo, who's barely walking, he was probably, I don't know what would he be, like one, I don't even know, barely walking, pushes him off the chair directly into the corner edge of the coffee table, "Fly," she says, and pushes him, and he falls, smacks his head straight onto the the coffee table, bleeding profusely out of his face, and we're just like, what the fuck, in that moment of pure adrenaline, like my kid is dead, one of the hardest things is like, what, how do, what do I, what do I do with Phoebe, because like right now she's the murderer of my son, you know, like I

0:42:25 Tom: Yeah.

0:42:53 Eli: Yeah, oh. Right. Sure.

0:43:26 Thomas: Love, I love Phoeby, but now she's a killer, but but also I know she's a kid, so like, how, it was, I don't know, know if I struck the balance. I, you know, it's never come up since. Um, don't think she changed or anything, but I, I got mad. I got really, cause he was dead. Like he, she killed him. And so I was just like, "Phoebe, what did you do? You do? She's like, I can't believe what I'm seeing. Cause she pushed him off and said, fly. And it was like the kid at game of Thrones.

Like Like literally was that like, I want to make Arlo fly and bleeding profusely and it's COVID. And so I was like, I will take Arlo because I don't know if I can't be around Phoebe. Like, I don'T know how to deal with this right now. Like I was just so upset. And so I took Arlo to the hospital and he, he's God, Arlo is such a fucking trooper. He always has been. I don't know what it is. Just something about him. He's just like super, I DON'T know. It's maybe it's the lack of awareness, honestly.

0:43:43 Tom: Sure.

0:43:53 Eli: Yep. Right. Right.

0:44:18 Thomas: He's just such a trooper, I think once the main, like initial pain calmed down, like obviously he was freaking out and crying and stuff. Cause he was just got his head cracked. And what it ended up being was a very thick cut in right between the eyes. She fucking killed him right between these. She nailed

0:44:31 Eli: Between.

0:44:33 Tom: Oh, well, and like a scalp wound like that bleeds like a son of a bitch. Like it just, they just bleed. They always look so bad because the amount of blood is just like, and it's on your face. So it looks especially like horrifying.

0:44:35 Eli: The eyes. Yeah. That's

0:44:43 Thomas: Him like Well, And I have experience because I have cut myself with with a hockey skate several times. Weirdly myself, once by somebody else, stupidly the other times it's me. I fell onto my own skate on the ice twice.

0:44:48 Tom: Oh

0:45:00 Eli: The flexibility there is impressive, impressive.

0:45:01 Tom: My God. Yeah. I, yeah.

0:45:01 Thomas: And no, I was falling wrong. I had to reteach my immediate brain because it's a reaction, you know? Like if you fall, you don't fall.

0:45:10 Eli: You pull your feet into your forehead. I,

0:45:12 Tom: What? What? Like, I'm trying to picture this, too.

0:45:13 Thomas: You know, so what happened was I, if I fell to the side, my leg would, you know, it's hard to describe, it's like, I don't know, anyway, it's like no,

0:45:23 Eli: Literally cannot picture what the second half of the sentence my leg would

0:45:27 Tom: I, you know, I think, Eli, you and I are in the same, like, I am not flexible enough. Like, my legs would have to break off in order for my foot to hit my head.

0:45:33 Eli: Crisscross.

0:45:34 Thomas: Shit, I'm just realizing I was about to say, something, what is the term for this now? Because we used to say as kids, sitting Indian style, do they have a Chris that, oh, that's right, my kids say that, okay, I'm fucking glad, thank you, people, for coming up with a better term for this shit, so picture crisscross applesauce, right? Right. It's that. Except when I felt like my one leg would be like kind of into the other one like that. It's not that hard to do. Anyway, my leg.

0:45:42 Tom: Crisscross.

0:45:43 Eli: Applesauce, oh, okay, let me clarify, you cut your leg with your skates, okay?

0:46:03 Tom: Oh, I thought you cut your head with your, yes, and

0:46:03 Eli: Me and Tom thought you cut you head with your skates, because you were like, "Oh, I relate to this because I've cut myself with my skates," so we were both trying to picture how the fuck you, you fell, head first onto your skates.

0:46:14 Tom: Hit your, like

0:46:13 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Through my helmet.

0:46:16 Tom: You're, and you're just like, yeah, I just, I gotta teach myself how to fall to, like I've never in my life fallen so the bottom of my foot hit my face.

0:46:20 Thomas: I Apologies.

0:46:23 Tom: Like, I, we

0:46:24 Thomas: I did nothing to specify because that is so fucking stupid. I wouldn't even consider. Consider.

0:46:28 Eli: You know when you start to fall, you hit a pike position and start to suck your own dick? You guys know what I'm talking about, right?

0:46:29 Tom: Were baffled. What was happening here?

0:46:37 Eli: You know how you go into happy baby position and then just...

0:46:30 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No,

0:46:37 Tom: Thank you, so, Eli. I was still confused, I'm like, is he falling in like some, like, reverse lotus and, like, what is, how, like, what fucking yogi shit are you pulling while you fall, sure.

0:46:42 Thomas: That is so funny. Oh, I love it. No. I've experienced with cuts that need medical attention is what I'm saying.

0:46:51 Eli: Full bridge.

0:46:55 Tom: Sure. Yeah.

0:46:56 Thomas: Um, the different story for another day or never, but I have some pretty bad scars on my legs. Kind of sucks, but whatever. So I have recent experience with, oh, is this bad enough, enough that I need to go to the hospital kind of cuts. And I looked at this cut on his, you, right between his eyes, and I was like, yeah, that's bad.

And, I remember that one, one key component of the decision, cause I talked, talked to the nurse, and you either can do like stitches or glue, you know, and I was like, well, which one's better? And she was like, well, it doesn't, stitches hold better and might look better, but they're also more painful, and that kind of thing. So, I had experience with all of this.

I go to the ER, and it's COVID, but fortunately it was late enough in COVID, which I'm surprised that it's probably just, just because of where you were, Eli, and maybe the exact peak. But for me, where I was, it was late enough in COVID that, very early, but like, you know, months into it or whatever. I don't know how to fucking relate the time of this, cause it's eternal. I don't know, uh, six months into it, maybe five months into it. And they had finally figured out to like, coordinate, like segment. There was a huge different entryway for anyone with COVID, anything, anything, and they

0:46:56 Tom: Oh,

0:48:02 Thomas: Totally segregated off, like, everybody over here is COVID and everybody else, you know, the normal stuff, the broken bones, the whatever, you get like one fucking doctor, you know, like there's just nothing, but it's all segregated off so that hopefully you don't get COVID. So that was fortunate, like it wasn't like day one where we would have been in with everybody, or what kind of thing. And so I felt kind of comfortable about that, and of course, we, you, quadruple mass, ass wrapped in bubble wrapped. And I just brought in, like, a cocoon. I was like, my kid is in there.

0:48:02 Tom: They didn't do that here. I'm

0:48:32 Eli: You just were... Those bubbles that people run down hills in, right, you just show them.

0:48:33 Tom: Just gonna aspirate some Purell.

0:48:35 Thomas: Yeah. Roll him in.

0:48:37 Eli: Roll your bubble next to a chair.

0:48:38 Thomas: They're like, oh shit. Is he stuck in there? No, that's just cause I'm yeah.

0:48:41 Eli: No. It's for us.

0:48:42 Thomas: He has a cut. He's Fine. So we do that. It was, it was a weight, you know, cause there's a very few thing and we get, man, this was hard. We get a doctor who is, I wish Eli could have seen him because Eli would have had a bunch of humor about this person that I wouldn't think of because he was he he had like a picture of him in a nice car, it was a young kid ish like he seemed like he was just out of medical school and was really into the fact that being a doctor made him money, that's Incredibly nice watch that and you know, like, no, no, no he

0:48:43 Eli: Oh.

0:49:09 Tom: Okay. Oh, gotcha.

0:49:09 Eli: Jewish. We all get what you're saying, Tom is Jewish. It's fine. It's fine. Third of the podcast

0:49:18 Thomas: No No, he was

0:49:21 Tom: You could have just described the nose.

0:49:22 Eli: Right,

0:49:22 Thomas: Like he was a bro, he was just like this, like preppy bro kind of, I don't even know, a fucking, no, I don't have enough, I don't have the vocabulary. Doc, bro. Sure, he had all the like way too nice clothes that we, you know, you expect when you get a doctor, usually it's just some fucking nerd, you You know, he's just like, yes, an old, tired nerd.

0:49:29 Tom: He was a doc, bro.

0:49:39 Eli: You want a tired nerd, right? You wanna you want a tired saint who's just like, I don't know why the world broke around me, I wanted to help people and you're like me now, you do me now for no money, and they're like, okay, nope.

0:49:49 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, but first things first, I walk into his little room and I smell the cologne of the guy. You know what I'm like?

0:50:00 Tom: Nope. Nope.

0:50:01 Thomas: No, there are no other options, Eli. It's COVID.

0:49:59 Eli: Already no Exactly.

0:50:01 Tom: I'm out.

0:50:03 Thomas: This is this is it. This is what I get. I walk in. I smell of the cologne where I'm, like, oh, good. Just in case, you know, one of your patients wants to fuck you or something. What is this cologne? What

0:50:12 Eli: Just In case I want to get lucky with one of these children I've been treating.

0:50:16 Thomas: Yeah, in case Arlo's into you, like, what, what are you doing, I was already mad, and and I don't know, you know, he's just way too well -groomed, you know, in a way, in the bro -y way, that's like the picture of the car, and the everything, I hated it, I already mad but, So, but that was, I'm stuck with it, and he was, so he's looking at the cut, and he's like, well, as decision I already referenced, you can do stitches or glue and I was like all right I I feel like I I know this because of my fucking you see my leg it has all these fucking scars and not my head that I cut my on my skates um know this and it seems like the glue isn't as effective perhaps in the scar but it's easier whereas the stitches are harder and he's like yeah and you have this is a kid this is like a one-year-old or whatever like I'll be honest I'm can try stitches he tells me he's like we can try it, but it's tough to do stitches on, on a kid this small in that spot, like right on their face.

And I was genuinely sitting there. I was texting. I was like, this decision comes down to me. I'm making a decision in this moment that apparently might affect the rest of his life. Like I wasn't ready for that. I wasn't thinking of it.

0:50:16 Eli: Yeah. Mm. -hmm.

0:50:17 Tom: You there's an emergency in my pants. They

0:51:19 Thomas: I was Like, oh, I have to either try to do stitches, which he's telling me can be really difficult on a kid this small. And like, you can't do, there's no, there's no pain medicine for it, like there's no anything. Not

0:51:19 Eli: Right.

0:51:30 Eli: I was Gonna say Let's Let's No you Can't Do that on kids so like

0:51:33 Thomas: Really No, no,

0:51:31 Tom: Don't Do a Local wait A minute Wait A minute, slow that, slow the fuck down, you can't do a local on a kid? Why?

0:51:35 Eli: Yeah. No,

0:51:38 Thomas: That Not, he said not for this, and I, and I think that's true, I think Eli's right, you can't, I

0:51:43 Tom: Though, is it because Of the epinephrine in there, like, it's bad for their heart? Oh,

0:51:44 Eli: Yeah.

0:51:46 Thomas: Maybe I'm Not sure, yeah.

0:51:47 Eli: You can't You can't dose it correctly. It's also hard to give kids injections. Locals are often like aimed very specifically at like a blood vessel or a nerve center near the thing. And they're too small in kids. Yeah. So to be clear, The reason why this decision is hard, and I know because I've been through this, not with my kid, but with like a family's children, is that what happens when a kid needs stitches is everyone holds that child down While another adult Sews That Child Clothes.

0:51:52 Thomas: Yeah. Exactly. And This is his Face You Can Yeah. Yeah.

0:52:12 Thomas: Yes. Yes, yeah.

0:52:14 Tom: This makes so much sense Wait Okay, so I'm like, this makes so much since, I have this memory, my brother hit me with a baseball bat when I was very little and I got stitches in my head, and I remember them having to hold me down, I, and I remember being like, it's this like whole experience. I remember hurting like a son of a bitch.

0:52:31 Thomas: Yeah. I'm Pretty sure Most Kids have some either a memory of them or Their sibling doing that. I have a memory of my sister doing that very thing. And, yep.

0:52:37 Tom: Yeah. Yeah. So I was always like, why did that hurt so much? Like I was, I, in my head, I was like, I Was just a fucking pussy about it. But like, huh?

0:52:47 Thomas: No, It's like an exorcism. Yeah, that was the decision. And, furthermore, this bro who is watching this, Cologne, is like, and I, but we don't fucking have anybody because COVID. Is not what he said. But the gist of it is, I don't have five doctors to come hold, or nurses to come hold your child down, I was like, well, I can hold him down, like I could do that, but he was still really worried, he was like, yeah, but his head, he can move his head, it's going to be tough. And so I came down to the decision, this was tough, because I was like, I need to balance, do I do this that's going to be really hard and traumatic, but do I owe it to him, his sister just murdered him, do I, will it, what if this produces like way less of a scar and the other thing produces like a massive Harry Potter scar in his, his face.

0:53:05 Tom: You're going to have to do it.

0:53:30 Eli: Mm -hmm.

0:53:31 Thomas: Like, I don't, I don't know what the right, I was like, I think I owe it to him to try. I told the doctor, I was like I think I, I think I owe it to him to try whatever's going to be the best. I think I, you know, because you can't undo it. Like I think I have to try that. And so he's like, okay. I was like, I'll hold him. He's a really good kid, like he's actually pretty good with his stuff.

And then as he goes to like put the cut together, he was like, you know, because they do, they all have to get their paws in on it to see how it's going to close, you because know, they're like, I, I don't know if it's going to close right or whatever. He gets in and he tells me, he's like, oh, you know, this time that I did it, he was like, actually, I think, I think the glue is going to work, cause I just closed it a certain way. He's like, I think it's gonna work. And I'm, I'm seeing her thinking like, fuck, I can't trust, do I trust this guy?

Like I was, I was so much, normally I'm a very decisive person. I was like, I don't fucking know. I do I trust, is he just bullshitting me? He's like, no. And, but there's also a nurse there and she seemed to like, I donno, I got just the cues, you know, the body language. It seemed legit to me. I could see what he was doing. He's like, see, yeah, I can get it together right here. And it's going to hold.

I think if we hold it really tight here and we do the glue, I think it'll be as, you know, 98% as good as stitches and it won't be this horrible traumatic thing. And so he convinced me, I was like, if, if you're giving me your word that like, this is going to be just about as good a stitches, like we can do that, you now, and he assured me and it was probably bullshit, but, um, so we did that.

But it was just such a weird decision to be thrust into in the middle of the night, you know, in COVID time. I was just like, oh, fuck, what? Yeah, I guess we have to do this horrible thing to my son and just because we owe it to him to have less of a scar. Don't you think? I mean, would you have done that?

0:53:31 Eli: Yeah.

0:53:42 Tom: Right.

0:53:56 Eli: So Tough. So tough. I've

0:55:08 Tom: Oh, that's tough. Of me says you got to do the stitches. I got fucking glue at home. You know? If I took you all the way to the hospital, I got fucking super glue at home. I feel like I just wasted all this time and energy.

0:55:18 Thomas: Tom's just approaching it from the money perspective. I paid the gasoline to get here, you now.

0:55:23 Tom: I could have...

0:55:23 Eli: Tom's actually just so incredibly grateful that his dad never heard that glue was a possibility because he knows his dad would have been like, alright, son, hold the folds together

0:55:29 Thomas: Yeah.

0:55:32 Tom: No, no. We didn't go to the hostel. No, we didn't. I've got scars all over this machine.

0:55:39 Thomas: I never went to the hospital. Yeah.

0:55:41 Tom: We never went to the... I one time, I won't get too far, but I remember once I was in the yard doing yard work, who cares, And I'm grabbing this like stick and it's stuck on something. It's a pretty big, you know, it comes loose and I end up driving the sharp edge of the stick right into my leg at my shin. And the stick goes in and then it, it goes up. It, so it hits whatever, probably bone and then goes up through and then pokes out the other side of my, my leg.

0:56:06 Thomas: No way.

0:56:07 Tom: And so I was like, oh shit, and so I'm like, and the stick is stuck there so I don't know what to do, and nobody's home because I was a fucking latchkey kid, and so like I break the stick off, so I've got you know, and now I've got the stick sticking out of two pieces of my leg, and I still don't know what to do because I'm still like 12, you know, so like I'm not used to that, so then I just like pull it out one side and the other, and then I just go in and throw band-aids on it which immediately soak up, and I don't know what to do, so the whole day I'm just putting band-aids on this thing that just keeps soaking up, and I come home and I'm like, god damn, I've got this, like, I hurt my leg and like I've gotten, you know, these like holes in my leg, I don't know how to fix these, like, well, band-aids aren't going to do it, we got to put little gauze on there underneath it, so we just

0:56:17 Eli: I

0:56:51 Thomas: Sure.

0:56:51 Tom: Put gauze under it like we I didn't even clean it out

0:56:53 Eli: Was so sure you were going to tell me your dad carried you over to the trash and just gently placed you in, he was like, alright, done with that

0:57:00 Thomas: At least put your leg in the trash can, he's just standing in the trash can. You

0:57:03 Tom: We It's just like it's just what we would, just no way, we didn't even clean it like it was just

0:57:07 Thomas: Know Tom the other episode when you're saying like you can't get your body to ever do what you're trying to make it do I'm just wondering you know you've had a lot of, we're talking about a lot of trauma to your body.

0:57:13 Tom: Yeah, I know.

0:57:14 Eli: I think it might be how does rise go away? I don't know, it's probably fine you guys ever notice that when you try to pick something up one third of the time you destroy it instead? Unrelated questions that I've just said in two different words

0:57:31 Thomas: But the end of the story is that Arlo has a scar, it still made a scar It's it's not terrible, it's, it's flat um of, it's a diagonal across, right across the dead center of his eyebrows, like in between his eyebrows, and I joked like, oh, you, you gotta grow a unibrow and then it'll be fine.

0:57:37 Tom: Bad is it? Lightning shaped or no?

0:57:51 Thomas: Um

0:57:50 Eli: Yeah

0:57:51 Tom: It makes him look mad all of the time.

0:57:52 Thomas: No No and he's such a happy kid yeah but it, he is flat, so I think it did work as well as it could, it's just discolored, you know, there's like a little light scar, I think, is about as good, honestly mine are way the fuck worse, and I think, think it's because skates have two blades, I've decided, is actually why that that happens, but anyway, um, it doesn't look that bad, but that fucking sucked, and the other thing I was gonna ask you guys is like if you've had any experience with or if you could relate to like trying to figure out how to treat Phoebe and all this, because I'm just, on one hand she makes a mistake, you know, as a kid, on the other hand this was fucking cold-blooded murder, like I wanted to call the police and like have them interview her

0:57:54 Eli: Just got a worry permanent worry crease on

0:57:56 Tom: Right.

0:58:33 Thomas: You know, and be like, do we have motive, do we, we have, you know, opportunity, I want to draw a chalk outline on my, you know, living room floor. Yeah.

0:58:40 Eli: My other kid right yeah right

0:58:42 Tom: Well, how, how old was Phoebe? Cause Arlo is a baby baby.

0:58:45 Thomas: So if Arlo was, Arlo was barely walking, I think so that what is that one? I can't remember now. He Yeah. Would have been a little over one, probably like one and a half. And she would have been been almost three. I think I

0:58:46 Tom: Oh man, you can't do shit. She's almost three. She's like, what do you do with that? Yeah.

0:59:01 Thomas: Know. No, no. Sorry. Almost four. I

0:59:03 Tom: Even still.

0:59:04 Thomas: Was off a year.

0:59:04 Tom: Yeah. I don't know. I don'T know that there's, I mean, yeah, it's

0:59:04 Thomas: Yeah, she was almost four. No, I know. Exactly. But like you, I'm faced with this dilemma often where I want to at least make an impression of some kind so that maybe she'll not try to kill my son again, or vice versa. Although Arlo never tries to kill her. I don't know why.

0:59:09 Tom: Yeah.

0:59:21 Tom: But she, at that age, she's just learning, like, she'S just starting to put together in concrete ways, cause and effect, beginning to to understand that like other people feel pain the same way or can get hurt. Like they're just starting developmentally.

0:59:32 Thomas: Well, but she's such a precocious child. She is such a precarious child. That's that's another challenge is on one hand, I'll be talking to her, even today I'll be talking to her like she's a fucking high schooler, and then she'll do like a weird grumpy thing and then she's a baby all of a sudden, and it's weird.

0:59:49 Tom: Okay.

0:59:49 Thomas: When you have a super precocious child, to be like, wait, I know you can handle this concept, like I know you can't.

0:59:50 Tom: I do have advice on that.

0:59:56 Thomas: Yeah

0:59:56 Tom: Yeah, but okay. I do have advise on that and that is, and this I have experience with and I have, I have advise on this because it's important, especially with precocious children to understand that there is a vast difference between intellectual precociousness and emotional precociousness, and they do not necessarily go one -to -one. So because we've all been adults for so long, I think a lot of us feel very much like our rational brains can help guide our emotional brains, our emotional reactions. But as kids, that's very much developmentally untrue.

0:59:58 Eli: We were just talking about physics damn it

1:00:36 Thomas: Yeah

1:00:37 Tom: That's So she might be very intellectually precocious and cognitively precocious or even physically precocious, but she might, she might not be emotionally, you know, on track or even a little behind. Like these things don't necessarily develop all, you know, in kind and in tandem. And so You have to really kind of step back and say, like, yeah, she can understand these high-end sort of intellectual concepts that are greater than her developmental level, in terms of like reading, writing, etc., but like emotionally, she might be two and a half, or three, or four.

1:00:43 Thomas: Right, yeah. Exactly, mm. -hmm it's so true it's So true. Yeah She'll still just like something will trigger her and she'll be, oh, she's her age emotionally all of a sudden, and you're like, oh, that's so different than how you were five seconds ago. It is really challenging, so, I, I mean, I, I felt bad, like, I, as I was driving, you know, back, I was like, oh man, I yelled at Phoebe. I think, I, I think I yelled it her and I probably, like, either sent her to a room or, like, took her to her, I was just, like, so scared that he was dead, you know, I just, I I reacted a little, little harshly, and I felt bad. And Lydia, like, yeah, Phoebe feels so bad. She wants to apologize to Arlo. But it was also super late, so like she went to bed, you know, and it was, oh man, it was hard. That, and I hate it. And I hope it doesn't happen to anybody else.

1:01:14 Tom: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1:01:38 Eli: Sure. Yeah.

1:01:55 Tom: I think the fact that she felt bad is what you want, like, you Don't want- right, and I don't mean that you want her to, but you- she- you- what you won is for her, especially at that age, to understand that there's a gravity to the physicality.

1:01:57 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

1:02:07 Thomas: Literally gravity. Yeah. Like there's literally gravity.

1:02:08 Tom: Yeah. Yeah right there's literally a gravity because, you keep, Arlo can't fly, yeah. Mean it sounds like she did, right?

1:02:11 Thomas: Yeah. You did that experiment. He tried it.

1:02:14 Tom: Yeah

1:02:15 Eli: Because it's the conflict between comforting your two children right like once the injured child is fine, you're like, how much did I emotionally injure this kid and like, well

1:02:15 Tom: Right

1:02:19 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, it was, yeah. That's more what I was thinking. It was more like, oh shit, do I need to go like, try to apologize or, you know, we talked it through and I, I, you know, I just, I tend to err on the side of like the of my parents, which is I'll just tell her everything that's going on. I'll just be like, Hey, I got really scared. Cause you really hurt Arlo. And I know that you didn't mean to, but like you really, you know, and I tend to err on that side. Um, just explain more.

1:02:39 Eli: Right the more open the better well

1:02:48 Thomas: Yeah. Cause my parents would just be I got you. And then it's talk not, about anything.

1:02:51 Eli: And it's also, and this is its whole own episode as well, like, we are as a generation so trauma conversant without being trauma informed that we're just sort of, I don't know about you guys, but for me, I'm just like vaguely aware that, like, whenever a bad thing happened, I'm like, I know, know the word trauma, I wonder if it's this, I wonder if it is this trauma right I don't think, exactly. Um,

1:03:01 Thomas: Hmm.

1:03:11 Tom: Now

1:03:10 Thomas: The butterfly meme. Yeah, exactly. So, oh, I guess the absolute end of the story, cause we're getting too long here is right after that bought foam shit. We had already had foam on some of this stuff, but I think we just didn't think about this or we didn't get to it yet or something. And so I bought on Amazon, I do what I always do, which is instantly order foam as fast as possible. And again, it was COVID. So I wasn't going out anywhere. I was like, okay, delivery. Delivery.

And then I was like, whatever the quantity is, I'm like, yeah, okay. Five of that. I find the thing that's like a whole set of foam. And I was just a hundred. So I still have to this day. Yeah. I still Have like, I, when we, I was cleaning the garage the other day and I saw this box, I Was like, what is this box? I don't remember. I opened it up. It's just like three of these huge things of this like foam, sticky foam that you could put on everything. And so it's exactly, there you go. That's, I think that was

1:03:41 Eli: A palette

1:03:58 Tom: It's scumbert foam, that's scumbert foam

1:04:01 Thomas: Why I kept it in the move. As I looked at it, I was like, oops, you know, maybe we'll need this someday. And, uh, sure enough, scumbered foam.

1:03:54 Eli: Yep yep all right gentlemen, before we go, important question: how does Charles Dickens order his martinis? Paninis with an olive or twist? Stop

1:04:25 Tom: Oh, with great expectations that it will be good

1:04:29 Thomas: Ooh. Yeah. Yeah, I like, please, sir. I want some more. I don't know.

1:04:33 Tom: All

1:04:37 Clip: Want to meet sexy DILFs in your area? Email the dads at DearOldDads.com or, better yet, send us a message on Patreon. You can follow us on all social media by checking the links in the show notes. And if you need more podcasts in your life, you can find Tom on Cognitive Dissonance, Thomas on Serious Inquiries Only, and Eli on Godawful Movies and all the Puzzle in the Thunderstorm shows. Dear Old Dads is edited and produced by my favorite DILF, Tom Smith, who also wrote and recorded the intro music, which is used with his permission. This podcast is a production of Daddy Issues LLC. Copyright 2022. All rights reserved.