SIO59: Alix Jules

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:28 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Serious Inquiries Only. This is episode number 59 and I am your host Thomas Smith. Wow, can't wait to get to today's interview. This is Alix Jules. He's someone I should have had on the show a long time ago. Can't believe we haven't gotten around to doing something until now. But it's worth it. It's been worth the wait. Really good stuff. Alix is a fantastic speaker, really interesting guy. We talked for just forever and recorded some of it. But yeah, there was so much to talk about and we already, as a matter of fact, have scheduled another recording. So despite the fact that we didn't get to everything that we wanted to, don't worry, there's plenty more on the way. Between the two of us, I think it's been really fun. So with that said, let me get you over to the conversation with Alix Jules.

0:01:25 Thomas: Joining me now is Alix Jules. Alix, how are you doing?

0:01:28 Alix: I'm doing okay, Thomas, how are you?

0:01:30 Thomas: Doing great. We've been gabbing on for, like, a half hour off, uh, off-mic because it is, it is really good to talk to you. It's been a pleasure getting to know you a little bit, because I, I just can't believe we haven't really interacted before. So, uh really excited to have you on the show, and I know I posted on Facebook, uh you know, having you on, uh give us questions, and we got a ton of feedback there. So I think, I think the excitement is all around. Thank you for coming on.

0:01:33 Alix: Oh, you're very welcome, I'm honored, oh,

0:01:55 Thomas: And boy, you know, I was thinking we've got a lot to talk about, definitely. So I want to keep this short. But you gave me a little picture of your backstory. But I wonder if you give me the Reader's Digest version, as they say, of how you got into this whole thing, because I was pleased surprised to find that, you work all the time. You just do this out of the certain goals that you have. And I thought that was an interesting story. So do you mind giving us that a little bit?

0:02:22 Alix: Oh yeah, no, absolutely, I, I am doing this because of my kids, a couple years, yeah, a, couple years ago, we decided that we're going to bring Camp Quest Texas to, Camp Quest to Texas, and my, my kids were like, yay, we're gonna go to camp, and we don't have to deal with prayer, etc., and I had started started building a community here. It's actually one of the largest atheist and free thinking communities now. But it was like, hey, let's do this for the kids. And my son was interviewed by the news media because, of course, it's big news, Secular camp in Texas. Now, this is about about five and a half, six years ago. Was all fine and dandy until they said, hey, let's interview your son. He was about 13, 14 at the time. And they decided that they were going to broadcast it. It's fine. And I was like, wait, this might cause a little bit of a problem for my son.

Now, we lived in a very diverse area, but the local high high school is, I want to say that it was only maybe about 13, 14% African American. And that was in August, September, October, no issues. We didn't think anything of it. And then come around the December, January timeframe, it turns out that a couple of the local churches saw that interview and were using that interview as a recruiting tool because the atheists are coming for your kids.

0:02:58 Thomas: Yeah.

0:03:52 Alix: Right. And that happened. And I hadn't heard about it yet, but a couple of kids cornered my son and said, you know, they roughed him up a little bit and they said, Hey, you're black. You can't be an atheist. How can you not believe in Jesus? Um, the school itself did what it needed to do. I wasn't, I wasn't unhappy with the school, but, um, when looking at this idea that they were dealing with, it was like, hey, you're a black man, you black man and atheist, that doesn't happen. That can't happen, and I could have been mad at the kids, but then I said, you know, I could really be mad at them, but what if I try and change the narrative a little bit?

0:04:32 Thomas: Yeah.

0:04:32 Alix: So that's when I became much more active, much more vocal. You know, the billboards happened, the magazines happened afterwards, etc. And, you know, I'm trying to change the world a little bit at a time so that my kids don't have to face the nonsense that I had to deal with growing up or moving away from the black community as being a black atheist. And the good news is it's kind of changed within the black community. It's not as taboo anymore. You are beginning to see some really big magnets and higher visibility, black atheists out there. And that's cool. So, yeah, that's why I do this. It is all about making sure that my kids don't have to deal with it anymore.

0:05:16 Thomas: Trying to change the culture a little bit, because one thing that I have discovered, I think that a lot of the comments I'm seeing is that they want me to white-splain a bunch of stuff to you. So I'm going to go.

0:05:17 Alix: Yeah, that.

0:05:29 Thomas: No, that's it. That has been something that I consider a personal growth experience for me, which is realizing that I have one perspective. I do my best to gather as much as I can. Of course, I read a lot. I want to talk to people, but I have my perspective. I have no idea what it's like to grow up as a black man, to grow up as, by the way, as a Black atheist, as you were talking about. Something that's It's got to be a whole different mix of like, what community are you in? You know, people, as you referenced there, the black community not accepting in some ways you and your kids. So that's something that I am just so excited to talk to you about. What your typical white guy, maybe your typical White Atheist, your typical me say, what am I missing in my experience?

0:06:19 Thomas: What is it that my privileged position has not allowed me to see in on? What do you think?

0:06:25 Alix: I think the the big one is the fact that we exist, and that that everything's equal. A lot of times I see, uh, arguments from equality, and they want to say, well, I don't see race, I'm colorblind, and I don't want to talk to my kids about race, etc. And there's a massive amount of erasure that happens when you do that. But also, it doesn't, especially when you're dealing with the kids, you're not teaching your kids about these cultural differences. Would we be doing it if we said that black was more than just skin tone and more of a culture, which, by the way, it is. There are African American experiences that are cultural and very culturally different than white experiences or the Afro-Caribbean experience, which happens to be very different from the African American experience.

0:07:16 Alix: That's that's actually where I grew up in the, you know, as an Afro-Caribbean black male living in a shadow, almost a shallow realm of what it was like to be African-American. So I dealt with the pushes and different ideas about race from my Caribbean family, and they had their predispositions and notions of what Black Americans are really like, etc. I mean, there was this entire struggle and I'm trying to fit into this culture. So don't erase me. Acknowledge that I'm there. Yes, we have some differences. And those differences sometimes are important to us than what binds us.

0:08:02 Alix: And I'm thinking about the atheist community specifically. A lot of times we get this big push. We should all be under this big, huge banner. And why can't we all just get along? Well, because, yeah, we agree that sure, being an atheist is important and pushing that narrative is important. But if you are a humanist, and I do identify as a humanists as well, is is is one of the things that pops up immediately for me. Black lives and how do they matter? What is their wealth? What what is the worth of a Black life is very important to me. And often I will get, well, I don't see race. Can we not pull race into this? Well, it's fine that we can talk about humanism and atheism, but cops don't stop me in the street because I'm an atheist. They don't pull me over because I am a humanist.

They pull me over, because it's the first thing that they see, And it's built on this racial hierarchy that just exists in America. It always has. It's from the founding. I mean, I'm three fifths until I was four fifths, until I was still striving to be that five fifths of a human being.

0:09:14 Thomas: Yeah. And me know what you think on this, because that's something I've had to fight against too, in a lot of comments I'm getting lately, because I merely use the word whitesplaining, and I set off a lot lot of people on that. I was a little bit naive. I didn't realize that so many people would be, I guess, offended by me using that word. Give me your take on this. I think that what might be an issue with the saying, "Hey, why can't we just not look at race?" Is that I think a lot of white people don't realize the status quo does favor white people. And so when you're trying to do this thing of, well, it's all even, let's just not even talk talk about race, or let's not, why are you always bringing it up? That already favors one set of people. Do you you think I'm on the right direction there? Because that's kind of how I've been thinking of it lately.

0:10:00 Alix: Well, yeah, there's this privilege of being blinded by your own race, by your own status. There was this wonderful meme, is you're privileged enough not to have to see race. And that's really what the problem is. When I walk into a store, am I going to get followed regardless of what I'm wearing, et cetera? Well, it depends on the place. But, you know, if I walk in with a friend, is that going to happen, this actually happened to me?

Of course, I do a lot of public speaking where, and I think probably a couple of your listeners know this, because I've told this story before, for, but how many, and I've reached out to other public speakers, other atheist speakers, and I've said, "How many of you have had to deal with security being called on you as a speaker because someone assumed that you weren't a speaker because you were Black?" They immediately assumed that I was a Black minister that came in to cause a problem. It's like, I'm right on the the docket. I'm wearing, yes, I'm wearing a suit and tie, because I know that I'm talking to 700 plus white people, that for them, this may be the very first time that they're interacting with Black people,

0:10:13 Thomas: Right. Hmm. I

0:11:13 Alix: Which is true. It was, it was a Midwest conference. And we, we, we tend to forget this reality that, right, right. Well, well, but, but the numbers, the numbers don't, um, don't show that we are an integrated country, right? There's only 13% African Americans in the country, 13%. And they're very much condensed in various pockets. So when white people say, oh, I have nine friends, it's like, unless you've got the same nine friends as every other white person out there, you're lying. Because if I grabbed a cross section of Americans at 10 people in a room right now, that's roughly one black person, seven to eight white white people. Um, and then everyone else in between. So don't tell

0:11:18 Thomas: Can't even imagine that. That's so weird.

0:12:01 Thomas: Yeah.

0:12:01 Alix: Me that you all, you know, know Alix. Oh yeah. Alix is my friend. Do you know Craig, Craig and him? No. Um. It's, it's, it's not the same Craig. It's, it's, you know, so, and we are very racially segregating, whether it comes to the schools or, or work. I mean, the statistics, the, the characteristics When I

0:12:21 Thomas: Yeah, even within a city too, you know, like not just like, oh, rural area versus city, I would say, yeah, even even within a city, it's like, it seems like we're very stratified.

0:12:31 Alix: Grew up, I grew up in New York. I grew up in Brooklyn and New York City, New York City in the 70s, 80s, 90s. And until I went to high school, which was in the 90s, I didn't have regular interaction with white people at all. I just grew up in Brooklyn. Now, when I got into high school, oh, then I was introduced to America. It's like, oh America is, you know, it's 70% white. I'm like, OK. But my my interactions with diverse ethnicities and cultures, that didn't happen until I left. And I thought I was fine. In fact, that's that's part of the my religious story.

You know, I identified as a black Christian because everyone identified as a black person until I went to Islam and looked at that as well. And then eventually I found my path to spirituality, spiritual but not religious. And then eventually after that, I became the atheist person that I am today. But we tend to segregate. Part of it is self-segregation. We've always done this. Some of it is human. But got rid of legal segregation on paper in some instances. Take a look at one of the things that people always hit, you know, hit me up with, well, racism died with, with the civil rights

0:12:57 Thomas: Right. Hmm. Right?

0:13:53 Alix: Era. I was like, well that's, that that's so not true because, you Know, we're talking about the, the civil right.

0:13:57 Thomas: There was that Republican who tweeted something like that recently, right? Yeah. It was like, oh, well, hey guys, remember racism? Boy, that was a, that sucked back in the day, huh? Okay. Anyway.

0:14:00 Alix: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yes. It, it, it was horrific, which, which ignores the fact that, and we're talking about 65 through 67 when the laws were there and being implemented, the Voting Rights Act just stopped, made it illegal for you to lynch someone when they were trying to go out there and vote. A Black person was trying to go out there and vote. But that didn't stop the zoning laws that restricted housing. Okay, so this person lived But they couldn't leave the projects until the 80s. This person lived in this area in Brooklyn. Well, they couldn't leave that area and get into certain areas in York, which were zoned for, whether it's a legal zoning ordinance or whether it was a housing association that just wouldn't let them in, they weren't let in.

In fact, the president of the United States had a case that was very similar. Like, OK, you're you're discriminating against renters. It's not that they can't pay. It's that they're black. So that didn't die in the 60s. In fact there were tons of cases in the 80s and into the 90s that were cases against FHA and HUD and even Sally, Susie Mack when people were trying to get loans and not even talking about ridiculous interest rates that people of color are exposed to, just not getting the loans at all. So you can't undo that.

0:14:31 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:15:36 Alix: I'm going to get it right. It was Freddie Mac. You can't, you can't undo, you can undo that the 40, 50 year time frame that has that that's happened. Um, people that were raising kids in the 60s that that fought against integration, raised kids in the 60s that believed that people shouldn't be integrated. So you had many races that were raising racist kids. Yes, maybe they got a little bit less racist, but guess what? There were still little races and they raised racist kids and and one of the things that I often talk about uh, in my talks are, are what the racial surveys tend to show. Um, and just between generation and generation, we've only seen when it comes to anti-black sentiment, we're only seeing, you know, three to 4% differences between baby boomers and Gen X.

0:15:40 Thomas: Right,

0:16:33 Alix: So we haven't been able to, yeah, exactly. And we're talking about blacks are lazy, et cetera. I mean, so true anti-Black black sentiment, the implicit bias stuff. Do you clutch your pearls?

0:16:40 Thomas: Right. Sure. This is explicit stuff. You're saying this This is right up, right, right there.

0:16:49 Alix: No, not that. Do you believe that blacks are lazy? All that stuff shows a marginal improvement. Again, I think honesty is the big point and big picture here because if we go back to starting there and and realizing that that's where we're at. It's a different kind of narrative. It was a different conversation that we should be having versus post-racial America's like people haven't even died off from that generation, generation, there's In fact in in I mean I or in hatch um yeah.

0:17:20 Alix: It's it's I mean really you you've had clansmen that that you

0:16:50 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, right. Right. Yeah well, and you got Jeff Sessions, by the way, and man, probably doing the most harm of anyone in the government right now, possibly.

0:17:28 Alix: I I Well Between Jeff Session and Nancy DeVos, I think that's that's Where you Know it's like how how bad do you want it because if you look at Jeff Betsy DeVos. Yeah. Do you want to look at what she's going to do to HBCUs and to public schools where minorities are very much dependent on those? Or do you want to talk about the continued criminalization of skin color, which is exactly what Jeff Sessions wants to do? All you have to do is look at what he says when he's out on the trail.

0:17:37 Thomas: Right, right bet, bet, Betsy, You Yeah. You know, it's so hard because there's so much I would love to get to your take on there's so many places I want to go. But I do want to ask you, if you don't mind, could you give us some info on what it's like to be a black atheist and what is it so, I suppose, either rare or difficult or whatever for black people to become or come out as atheists? And is that changing? Give us some background on that.

0:18:25 Alix: It's it's identity. It really is. It's identity and identity coherence. There are only certain roles that you get to play. We're told if you're a black man, there's... there's only certain things that you can do. You fall outside of those parameters and you're no longer a black men. And some of them are toxic, right? Same thing with black women. And there are these roles that we've developed internally. There is these roles that are almost written for us by white America or America in general. But when you take a look at racial identity, what does that mean? Well, yeah, we have the stereotypes and you have the sub stereotypes, et cetera, but you have have these identities that we cohere in. Part of them is, you know, religion and race tend to get intertwined.

0:19:13 Alix: We see it with Islam and Muslims from the Middle East. We tend to see that kind of coherence. True, you have a lot more diversity of that in the United States, where whites, yeah, can be Protestant or Catholic, but even there, like, what does it mean to be a Southern white Well, you're probably Southern Baptist or a Protestant of some sort. And once you fall out of those, oh, you weird. So you fall into the out group category. So being a black black person who identifies as an atheist, of it is people will question whether I still identify as black because you're you're turning away from your ancestors. You're turning with my identity. You know, you sometimes become a race traitor. And that's kind of tough.

0:20:05 Thomas: Are you feeling that? You're feeling that from the black community, you're saying, like that. Oh, okay.

0:20:10 Alix: That's just from the black community. I mean, and this has been around for a while because once you get a little bit of education, you know, oh, now you don't believe in God, you're too good to be black, et cetera. So these are some of the narratives there. And that is just from black community on that front. You it's still getting a little bit better. You know, when you take a look at the general population in the United States, we're getting a little bit more secular. If you like the Pew number of 30-ish percent and it's getting bigger, you know potentially up to 40 percent, that's great.

That's not the numbers that we see in the Latino or Latinx and African-American community. We're still seeing religious coherence at, at 90 to 95%. Yeah, you got to keep it real. You got to be you, but you is defined by X. So you got at least believe in something is the typical narrative. And then you get to cross into the atheist sphere. And that's the general population when you're dealing with white atheists. It's been a different experience for me. I'm used to code switching. I deal with

0:20:12 Thomas: Right. Yeah.

0:21:19 Alix: Whites on a daily basis. I mean, I've been in corporate...

0:21:23 Thomas: What do you mean by that? What's, what's that? What do YOU mean by THAT term?

0:21:26 Alix: I'm going to get to that. I've be in corporate America for almost 21 years now. And I'm usually... only happened a couple of years that I haven't been the only black person either in my department or in a room or whatever, I used to it, just, it just happens, they're just not many of us, you know, out there. And so, um, being able to have a conversation, uh, and switch dialect really quick is something that that many black people learn to do. I'll, you know, I can walk in the street and have a conversion, conversation that, uh, you know, sounds really off, especially if you're in Brooklyn, like, "Oh, what is he saying?" Uh, and then I walk into a building and all of a sudden people say, "Oh, he sounds quite, what, white." I was like, no, it's, it's, I know how to communicate and have a conversation for the audiences that I'm talking to. And so, um, we just call that code switching, you're

0:21:28 Thomas: Okay, sure. No problem.

0:21:47 Thomas: Right? Oh, okay. This is so fascinating because weird timing, I'm gonna have to explain it a tiny bit. We're recording just before I will have done my Thursday episode of last week, and I need to mention that because I got a call, a voicemail and a topic about African-American, oh, Vernacular English. And so fascinating because someone sent me a video like, here, watch this, learn about this. I watched it and they talked about how, yeah, a lot of black people in America are kind of, it's not like bilingual, but it's like bi-dialectical kind of. It's so fascinating that, it was just something, a topic I didn't really know about. And it's interesting timing to learn more about it so, from that's something that you do. You just, when you, yeah. Sure.

0:22:57 Alix: Exactly. Yeah. Oh. It's multi, it, it's Thoroughly

0:23:10 Thomas: Go ahead.

0:23:10 Alix: It's thoroughly multi, uh, multi-dialectical because I'm walking in there, if I'm, if I'm walk into room with, uh, with a bunch of execs, I'm talking one language, I'm talking, I'm out there with my friends, I'm talking a different language, and as soon as I step into the room with my mom that's a different langauge all together, so yeah It

0:23:20 Thomas: Mm-hmm. Yeah. I'm sure people can relate to that to a certain extent, like changing how they're speaking to a certain extent, but I think it's, I'm guessing it's got to be way more pronounced than I'm used to dealing with. It's a whole different dialect. And feel about that? Do you feel like that's good, bad, neutral? Way you want that to change or is it fine? I'm just curious. What are your feelings on that?

0:23:39 Alix: Is It Is, uh, you You know, it's, it's always into a room and I start having a conversation with someone and someone says, "Oh, you sound so white." I'm like, "Yeah, good. Okay. Whatever." Um, don't say that.

0:23:59 Thomas: Maybe don't say you sound so white to a black man. Yeah. Okay.

0:24:02 Alix: Yeah, yeah don't saying that. That's bad. And I quite often I'll hear something like, um, but he's so eloquent or something like That. He speaks so well. I mean, look at my education. What do you expect? Um, but even then, being able to go from room to room, it's a skill that many of us have learned, and we've been able to hone it over years of living in a country where we have multiple identities. We talk about walking in with a hood and a hoodie on, it's like, yeah, I walk with a hoodie on and has a Harvard tag on top of it. But people still see me as, that's that black guy. So that that tends to be, you know, the media code switching that needs to happen. And, you America makes race the first thing for at least black people. It tends to be a racial issue just all across the board. But for black people, it's, you know, you're black something.

0:24:03 Thomas: This is bad. Okay, got it. Right, right.

0:25:01 Alix: So, I'd love for people to just drop that from their vernacular altogether. You sound so white. But I also get that from from black people as well. I'll be on the phone with them and then they'll meet me. It's like, oh my God, you're a black. I was like, yes, I'm black. Yes. Just because I can have a conversation with you on code switch, et cetera. But again, this is something that we're learning. The cultural biases, we just inherit. A lot of them, if they are not challenged, they just stick and they don't go away, which is exactly why you have so many issues in the South where people are like, okay, OK, we we desegregated. No, they didn't. But we legally deseggregated. I actually had this conversation not too long ago. The the the school district in Mississippi that just desegregated in 2017, just in 2017. That that's that's America. And people like, oh, my goodness, I'm so surprised.

0:25:56 Thomas: Can you, do you have a, do you have link for that? I can, I can put for people after that'd be great.

0:25:57 Alix: I'm like, Oh, I can see you. Yeah, I

0:26:01 Thomas: I can read about it. Yeah, delayed

0:26:02 Alix: Consider that. Yeah. Yeah And they actually they were forced to desegregate in 2016. And then they decided that they were going to fight it in court. And in 2017, in January, February of 2017, they said, OK, we're not going to fight it. Just let you know, we'll do that. And then the same school district decided that there was a black valedictorian, right? And there a black validictorian. But because didn't want to disrupt the status quo, they appointed a white co-valedictorian, not salutatorian, but a co-valedictorian just even though the black valedictorian had a higher GPA, it's just, this is, this is still America, so this is the, the America that I, I know. It's like when people said there's no way Trump wins, I was like, just wait.

0:26:12 Thomas: It a little bit.

0:26:52 Thomas: That, what was, who was that? Was that a Chappelle? Oh my God, it was so great. Uh, I think it was on SNL. It might might've been an SNL skit or something.

0:26:56 Alix: Yes. It Was It Was Chris Rock, it, it was Chris Rock that did the skit, and I think it was Chris Rock and uh, Dave Chappelle And Them together. And no

0:27:04 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, them together, right? Yeah. Where everybody, all the white people are like, no way, this, how, how?

0:27:10 Alix: Way, No way. Well, I to a Trump rally last year, this was back in February of last year, because I was on another podcast and I made some statements, and people called me out and said, how do you know? You've never been. I'm like, okay, well, if this means that I'm going to have to go to a Trump rally to prove it, I'm going to go to a Trump rally. And so I did. And, uh, oh yeah, I would get, I was getting texts from people. Please don't do it. Even my conservative friends was like, okay, okay.

0:27:38 Thomas: They were like worried for your safety.

0:27:39 Alix: They will work as like, wait, I thought you said I didn't have anything to worry about. And all of a sudden it was like way, we don't want you to die. I mean, we just want you be wrong.

0:27:40 Thomas: Yeah yeah yeah. You called their bluff. Okay okay okay. Okay okay. You

0:27:49 Alix: Don't die.

0:27:49 Thomas: Got Us, you got us. Now, yeah, no, don't go. Okay. Okay, yep.

0:27:52 Alix: Uh, and so I went and what I saw was this cross section of America, of white America, specifically white America. That I was like, this is not what the media is painting. These aren't the hits. These are the you know, I was expecting to see a lot more overalls and denim and all that. And I was and missing teeth because this is this is what media was saying. This is what a Trump supporter looked like. And II got there and I immediately knew I was he's going to win. He's going because this a cross section of angry white voters and They're angry for different reasons, whether it's the establishment. We now know that there was an underlying tone of white nationality. That's something that's been kind of circling The globe. Well, They Okay, but but I

0:28:37 Thomas: It's Not That underlying Though, to be Honest, so it's Pretty Overlying too when you talk about Building a Wall and keeping the, yeah, anyway, go Ahead, but

0:28:43 Alix: Agree You Know. I, I 100, I 100 agree, but you know people will tone police you and tell you like That's Not, that's Non-productive language, um, I'm gonna get emails over that, uh, but you Don't It Maybe

0:28:50 Thomas: Sure. Yeah, yeah. Uh, Not From My list. Well, maybe from, maybe from A few, yeah.

0:28:58 Alix: It's Not, it's Nonproductive language, and it's like, okay, that's fine, but understand that when you say that, you know, you, you had white, you know, you had this economic anxiety. Well, what was that economic anxiety really, really tied to? And it's like them taking your jobs. Okay, who's taking your jobs? We're not talking about another white person. You're talking about a black or a brown person. Um, when we were talking about entitlement, it was like, they're getting stuff that's mine. It's like, well, you're talking about welfare, aren't you? It doesn't matter that the overwhelming majority of recipients of welfare and SNAP, et cetera, happen to to be white.

It doesn't matter because the narrative that was put out there with Reagan has never gone away. Even if Reagan didn't put it out, you know, I wouldn't be, I wouldn't have been surprised if, uh, if Bush used it as a narrative or any politician would have used it for their Southern strategy, because that's what the voters want to hear. You're suffering because of X, not because of me, but because of, so here you go. So America's always going, I've said it before. America's Always going to need a black black person. By black person, I mean nigger. And specifically that idea of what a black person

0:29:00 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:29:56 Thomas: What?

0:30:10 Alix: Is.

0:30:09 Thomas: A scapegoat.

0:30:10 Alix: A scapegoat. It's more than a scape go. It is very, very specific. It is very specific

0:30:11 Thomas: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, you know what's so interesting too about that is something I heard the other day is now if you talk to those same people, those same Trump supporters, magically the economy, it's better. If you ask their opinion, it is all fine. It turns out they just do not want a black man running the country. Their They guy in control. Control, nothing on the ground, no facts on the ground have changed. There's no time. There simply hasn't been the time for any economic swing or any economic policy to make any sort of difference. But you poll all of them and all of a sudden they're like, oh yeah, the economy's fine. It's funny how not motivated by reality a lot of these beliefs are. The belief is just, okay, if liberals are in control, the economy is shit. And if conservatives are in their control, economy is better and vice versa. So it's

0:30:30 Alix: It's totally. Yeah.

0:31:05 Alix: I got,

0:31:05 Thomas: Such an imaginary land, fairytale land that they're living.

0:31:05 Alix: I, I I got I got I got one for you because, um, if any, if, if anyone follows me on Facebook, I'll occasionally do what I call a star Starbucks chronicle. And, um. What happens is I, I, I live in Texas and I live In a, you know, in a Dallas suburb and it, it tends to be a little bit, um, more purple than, than red. It's not truly blue, but you know.

0:31:11 Thomas: Oh, good.

0:31:32 Thomas: Yeah, Texas is moving a little that way, right?

0:31:35 Alix: It is, it is, it is very much and and Dallas is blue-ish and then outside you know when you go out there it still has some conservatism there um so we're seeing a lot more purple and people are saying by 2020 it'll flip you know you know from purple possibly you know to a lighter little blue

0:31:35 Thomas: Right?

0:31:53 Thomas: Greatest thing in my life would be if in 2018 we get Ted Cruz out of there and it flips blue. That would be the greatest. I've said on opening arguments, that would be the only thing that would kind of make the Trump thing slightly less horrible is if it resulted in getting Ted Cruz Out of the Senate and then we had the numbers to impeach Trump after that. But anyway, that's just a fairy tale.

0:31:57 Alix: I'm gonna I'm yeah I yeah

0:32:17 Thomas: That's a fantasy.

0:32:16 Alix: Yeah that That's fair, but, but, okay, so I do these these Starbucks Chronicles. And sometimes I just go to go to my local Starbucks, which has a lot of conservative traffic. And so I'll just listen to what they say. You know, you know, there's a great one about Benghazi and and this this this couple having a conversation about who this Benghazzi fella is. And and it's no, that was that was for real. I mean, if anybody. Yeah. And today and today what I overheard was it was actually saddening. I had to sit down and reflect on it because it's like, did they really say this? All right. So right now, what we're seeing in news is Donald Trump Jr. may have have potentially colluded.

0:32:39 Thomas: Is That real? For My gosh Yeah So It's so great, it

0:33:03 Alix: It it is a a well, we're, we gotta wait, we gotta wait because now you're dealing with uh legal terms and, are, is it really collusion, I guess it's all day long

0:33:03 Thomas: Is so great, oh he definitely clue, anyway go ahead, yeah, yeah well listen to opening arguments, uh, when you're everybody for that, for that, uh, expertise legal expertise

0:33:15 Alix: Yeah I I can't, I can, I can't wait to hear Andrew's take on it, but but what I heard was, I'm, yeah, I'm hoping you're sitting down for this one, winning at all cost is also the American way he did what he needed, uh, what he, he needed done to make America great. And that's the difference. Liberals can't. He's a patriot, not a traitor.

0:33:20 Thomas: Yeah yep that Is like a word for word Sean Hannity kind of, that is the byline, that is is the talking point now. And it's just unbelievable. Like, I didn't know that things were this bad, you know, and maybe that's more of the white privilege talking, probably white liberal privilege. I just didn't know that reality didn't matter anymore. Like that was the big thing of this last year. Like it just doesn't matter what he does, what Trump does, what his son does doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that literally everything Trump does, he has a tweet from 2012 or 2013 or whatever, condemning Barack Obama for doing it. It, I had no idea that facts and reality just do not matter to like 39% of the country at least.

0:34:26 Alix: Well, not only do you have that, you had the recent survey that shows that 58% of Republicans think that colleges do more harm to the U.S.

0:34:27 Thomas: Oh yeah. Well, that's a by-product of the, of the campus craziness narrative that Fox news has been pushing. And, and you've seen Rubin pushing all these other people who pretend to be liberals are pushing. It's really, no, there's consequences to it. This is something I just became became aware of. And that's real life consequences to a constant narrative. That's what Fox News does. And it's so harmful.

0:34:42 Alix: Exactly.

0:34:59 Alix: It is. Well. And when when we're looking at it, it's let's find the most extreme examples and portray that as the norm. Because I look and I see what happens on these campuses. And I try tracking them. I was like, okay, how many of these are actually done versus how many campuses actually exist in the United States versus how Many students are actually enrolled. And, you know, would this actually happen in this state, in this state, can I imagine this happening at NYU, for instance? No, this never happens. But the narrative, you knows, Shapiro does it, et cetera. The narrative is, you Know, yeah, as you, as you said, campus craziness, you know, you have these ultra, it,

0:35:30 Thomas: Yeah. Oh, it's so great. Oh it's so great Alix. Oh I think it's a chance I can white explain to you here. Oh let me white explain. No it's so great here's what I think is going on with with the white community. Let me let me tell you about my fellow white people Alix. It it is such a good victim narrative. Oh, it is. It is. Oh.

0:36:00 Thomas: It's a delicious victim. It is. Here's what it is, it's all these white people that watch Fox News. They get to think like there's this they have in their mind, which is an older white professor. He's got the tweed jacket. Maybe he smokes a pipe. I don't know. And he's all about reason reason and rationality. And he's all about facts. And all he's trying to do is teach some shitty kids, some know nothing, ungrateful millennials about his facts and figures and whatever topics they probably don't even know a real college course. But anyway, whatever it is. And they're screaming at him. And it's such a good victim narrative because it's like, yes, we're under fire. We can't even just be white people anymore. We'll get screamed at. It's so great. It, it's, it's such an attractive narrative to a lot of white people.

0:36:15 Alix: It is. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, well, this is, this This is where, you know, I look at that and I'm like, OK, so I understand that people believe that the left is destroying the world and and we do all this infighting, blah, blah. And then I take a look at, OK. So let's take a Look at what the actual power dynamics look like. Can we you know it's just like, you Know, people blaming, you, know, Bernie supporters green that in Titan. That's a different conversation altogether.

0:37:18 Alix: We ain't got time for that. But but it's like, can we also talk about the 63 million people that voted Trump? Because 63 million people voted Trump. And that's about half, a little bit over half of the people that voted. So I understand that you want to talk about, you know, this problem. And it's not that we shouldn't be looking at getting better, but 63 million people still voted Trump, just like they will decide that they're going to do something in unity again, which is stand behind their bad decision. And we are, you know, it's funny because people say we're eating each other and we're cannibalizing or we're going after each other. And you know how they do that? They talk about it by going after each other. So it's a perfect storm. So until you actually start talking about the real problem and not just these extreme cases, then all you're doing is going around in in circles or you're doing the job for them. And I'm not

0:37:09 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah the

0:38:14 Alix: Saying totally.

0:38:15 Thomas: Campus craziness is such a good deflection tool for Fox News. It is absolutely perfect. And here's the thing. I, and I'll have to say this now and I bet you'll agree. Uh, maybe you'll, I don't know. There's plenty of examples of of yeah, 19, 20 year old kids being stupid, like there's plenty, there's many of examples

0:38:31 Alix: I'm going to stop you. I'm because I've challenged before when I talk about victims who are 18. I've been told that they're no longer a child. They are an adult. So don't sit there and tell me that an 18, 19, and 20-year-old kid is making this decision for him. No, you're talking about an 18-, 19-, and 20-, year-old adult. And so you are stepping in in this patriarchal form, and yes, we can use that term, white patriarchy. I hate that term. But yes, white patriarchy coming in and saying, no, this is what I think you should be speaking about. How does it affect me? It doesn't, but it does affect this legacy that I feel as if I bought. This is this is America. This is what I want America to continue to look like. So I'm going to tell you what you're going to teach. I'm not telling I'm telling you, that you do not have a voice in consuming the education for you, because, again, you're just an infant, you're a kid until you're black and you're 18 and you're shot and you're an adult and you're 17 or 16 or 15 or

0:38:32 Thomas: Right Yeah or or 16 or yeah Yeah Exactly, yeah Great

0:39:37 Alix: You're 12 and you playing with a gun, you're playing with a gun and they thought that you were dangerous adult and you get shot. So it can't be one or the other.

0:39:37 Thomas: Point No great point no No, 100%, right, that's, I, one of a, another big kind of everyday, I suppose, racism kind of thing, or just, or just prejudicial kind of thing is is white people, or or even all, all of our society perceives young black men as bigger, older, more threatening, all these kinds of things than equivalent white people, and it has a real, uh, effect on policing and it's

0:40:09 Alix: Oh, well, absolutely. And when we started dealing with, you know, uh, I, I feared for my life. I was like, why did you fear for life? Well, it was a black kid. What do you expect? I mean, I feared for my life, it's scary. Um, this also go and this hurt Hillary Clinton a little bit when she was talking about the super predators.

0:40:09 Thomas: Yeah Absolutely right Super

0:40:25 Alix: It doesn't matter what the reality of the time was. That's something that was easily played and it hurt her absolutely. And it does play to this narrative.

0:40:24 Thomas: Predators Yeah Well Let me ask you this Okay, now, this is a separate topic, but do you really think that hurt her, or do you think, because I don't think that hurts her with people of color much, do you you would know better, but, like, because I think that that was something used by white Bernie supporters to say don't vote for her because she's a racist, when in reality what, like, my decision process was, well, one of these people, one of these two candidates that we get to choose from will be a fucking disaster for black people, and the other said some bad shit at some point, and probably, and probably has some problematic views somewhere along the line, but is in support of all kinds of programs that are going to be better for people of color in America, so I don't know, how do you, how much of a knock Did you see that as On Hillary's...

0:41:18 Alix: I thought Hillary actually had two really big, uh, hits and it, and it did hurt the youth vote and specifically the activist vote, black activists that are going out there, the ones that are in the street, the one's that are talking about it. Um, one is the fact that she had the last name Clinton and, uh, you know, Bill, Bill, Bill Clinton's, uh, mass incarceration bill, crime bill that turned into a very one-sided, um, one side vehicle to, to help with mass incarceration. So that was one. And we started started talking about that very early. And then the other one being the super predator comment. So both of those really did help, um, or actually hurt her. Now it, it, it doesn't really matter because, um. I can't blame black people for, uh, for Hillary losing because they still showed up. Um, I can talk about 53% of white women that voted

0:41:36 Thomas: Yeah, that's true.

0:42:10 Thomas: Yeah.

0:42:10 Alix: For Trump. I can talk about, again, the 63 million people that did vote for Trump and it was a very, very small number of African-Americans that did vote for Trump, but they did just like you had Latinos, et cetera. They did that. And, and some of them were the anti-establishment, um, votes and, and there were angry votes because, yes, you have Clinton, but I'm going to vote and I'm angry, damn it. And I'm gonna do this. Regardless of what the impact or implications were on everybody else on everybody. So yes, it hurt her a little bit. Uh, the hurt, the narrative It didn't make it easier.

0:42:39 Thomas: Yeah... But what do you think about the primary, though? Because it was so interesting that Bernie just could not get non-white voters, you know? It seemed like... What do you thing about that?

0:42:54 Alix: Well, I mean, that's easy. With everything that he's done, he still has no name recognition. He hasn't been in the streets. Although he's been in The Streets and people are going to show me pictures, look, he's right here. That's nice. He was in The Street. But when you have Clinton on our senior hall,, you have Hillary Clinton going on and talking to Wendy Williams and going on to these black – that kind of accessibility and talking the community through the church, et cetera, was that very hard for – that would be hard for anybody to overcome. Come, I mean, Eddie Murphy maybe, you know, was able to beat that, but you, the reality is you've got, you've got all, I mean, over 20 years of relationship building with the black community and and her, the last name being, uh, you know, it it

0:43:03 Thomas: Yeah. Okay.

0:43:47 Thomas: But it sounds like it was both an asset and a hindrance then. Doesn't it sound like you said contradictory things there?

0:43:52 Alix: You know, no, I don't, I don't think so, because it, when you're dealing with the different age demographics, because the older folks, absolutely knew Clinton. The younger folks, I mean, you know, when's the last time we had a Clinton in office? And that winds up being, okay, well, what narrative do they get? You're talking about the younger voters. And the first one that they hear is Benghazi in emails. Okay, well, I don't know if that's true or not, but I do see the super predator thing. I do know about, you know, my dad's not here, and not all of them, obviously, but my dad's not here or has one strike against them because of this, this, uh, this nonsense bill that was, was, was put out there in, in the nineties. So, you know, the younger voters definitely had, you know, more of a negative experience with, with Clinton. And I think that that proved to be the case in the numbers as well.

0:43:59 Thomas: Okay.

0:44:44 Thomas: I don't even remember how we got on that. There's so many things I wanted to talk about. We just keep branching off. Just let's transition back over to the quote-unquote atheism or skepticism movement, and I've been doing a lot of thinking about this lately. I read the column that I sent it to you to get your thoughts. Thanks so much for looking over that, by the way, my recent blog post. But what are your thoughts? I mean, what is this movement? Is it a movement? Is it valuable to consider it an atheist movement anymore? Is it falling short when it comes to people of color? I mean it's a big topic but what are your thoughts on that?

0:45:02 Alix: Very well.

0:45:17 Alix: It's always fallen short when it came to, uh, people of color in general, um, you know, I remember, I remember he's not going to use his name, but he's a big speaker now and, uh, I was one of the only ones that was doing the circuit, and you say, hey, you know, tell me a little bit about what you're going to be talking about, I'm talking about diversity, what's like being, blah, blah, and and his response, and this is from a, a known speaker, he says, uh, but isn't that racist? I was like, what do you mean?

He says, well, you're invited not on merit, but simply because you're black, you and this was very early for me. And I was, like, well, do I want to keep doing this? I mean, if this is the kind, and it was very, very early on that, you Know, security was called on me and other, other stuff. Do I want To keep doing that? Cause it's never been really hospitable to people of color. Um, but that's true with America. So why wouldn't the atheist movement look like America? Especially when you look at the demographics, you got what, 90-ish percent of atheists in America

0:46:20 Alix: Are white?

0:45:50 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, it's more white. Right, yeah. The atheist movement's got to be way more white than the general population even, right?

0:46:26 Alix: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Which means it skews more, more white as well. So, yes, you do have liberals and you have a few conservatives and what have you. But even when you take a look at liberals, are liberals more or less racist than conservatives? That's like, well, when we look at some of the numbers, like, wow, by 13 to 15 percent. And that was a 538 poll a couple, like two years ago. So it's like that was the difference. That was the difference. Not a big one. So, yeah, we're out there. And now you also see really big names lumping what the regressive left is, whatever they define that to be with SJW.

So you have this anti-SJW regressive left thing. And it's just completely lumped into it. So I may want to talk about things that are very important to me. Like life or living and, and, and, uh, and discrimination. And I get, I get silenced or I get um, you know I have to defend, um, anything that I say is like, well, that's not, that's true. Did you know that more white people are shot than, than black people by police? It's like, I would, I would kind of hope so because there's like seven times more than,

0:46:27 Thomas: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah,

0:47:43 Alix: Then then you, et cetera. And so it's that and the the whole colorblind that that just exists there. No, we're better than racism. And so we're not going to see it. And so we're going to deny that it exists. So it hasn't it's never really been hospitable. You've got really great names. Bandisa Thomas, Sigourney Hutchinson, Anthony Penn. I mean, I probably shouldn't have started naming because I'm going to, you know, Ish. You have all these wonderful names that are out there and, you Know, black isn't a monolith. You know, we are, we, we don't always agree on things when we go out there. Um, but, um, there are a lot of people that don't want to be visible and don't want to speak because we know what's going to happen. I curb my writing because when I put put out a piece and it may be well-researched, et cetera,

0:47:43 Thomas: Yeah, yeah No,

0:48:32 Alix: Just the amount of toxic hate and backlash that I get, um, you know, I go out and do, uh, the thinking atheist. I should probably should not be talking about everyone else's podcast. Uh, and

0:48:42 Thomas: That's okay. Okay, you're on my pod, guys. Fine. As long as you're here and doing it. When you go on Thinking Atheist, mention my pod. Yeah, then we'll be even. No, I'm just kidding.

0:48:45 Alix: Okay. So I, so I, so I did that and, and I almost had to shut down my email because of, uh yeah, I'm not kidding. And it

0:48:55 Thomas: Jeez. What was the topic that you talked about that triggered this?

0:49:00 Alix: Was race and discourse in the year of Trump. And I was just talking about, you know, talking to Seth about what I saw as the racial tensions and racial climates in the United States. And this was also not too long. It was before Trump got elected. But yeah, before he got elected, but also after my Trump rally experience as well. And we talked about it. And that's where I actually talked about, you know, Trump being, um, I don't know if anyone's ever seen Ghostbusters because people, you know, like to talk,

0:49:16 Thomas: Hmm.

0:49:30 Thomas: Wait, the old one or the new one?

0:49:30 Alix: Oh, the, the old and Ghostbuster. All right. And okay. So this is, this is where I, I talked about. About Donald Trump being Vigo the Carpathian, and

0:49:33 Thomas: Yeah, those are my favorite movies. Oh, I can't wait to hear this. Yeah. Mr. Vigo.

0:49:45 Alix: It's because he is a culmination of all of this hate and racism, et cetera, this ooze that's just been the slime that's been part of America and this culmination was in Vigo or or Vigo Trump, um, now you know, people look at it and like, you know what, you're right, but at the time I was anti-American, I was anti-white, etc.

0:49:55 Thomas: Right, right. The slime right I'm sure there's still plenty of those people who think you're wrong, don't, don't worry I that because if you look at the numbers, his approval has gone from, what, you know, it's despite all he's done, it's gone from somewhere to somewhere minus one or two, yeah, exactly

0:50:16 Alix: I'm sure I'm, I'm totally sure he's he still has approval period he's Yeah, he still still has approval. And I also I also talked about, you know, interracial relationships because, you know, you might my kids are a product of of an interrelationship. And my wife said my my wife happens to be white as well. And and I talked about that dynamic and that, you know, I know the conversation that I was having with Seth and Seth and I were having this wonderful conversation. But when you expose that to the world, everyone else's biases are immediately

0:50:31 Thomas: Yeah. Hmm. Yeah.

0:50:55 Thomas: What are people saying? Like, what are the kinds of things? Because it, because Really, this is why privilege that I just, it's so hard to even imagine that. Well, what are they saying to you?

0:50:58 Alix: Oh, my goodness. That, oh, that I hate white people, I'm anti-American, you know, the regressive left thing, SJWs, so and so. I mean, I literally,

0:51:12 Thomas: Well, I get some of that. Well,

0:51:13 Alix: I, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not uncommon that, you know, not from that one, but from some of my pieces when I'm when I when I write for Patheos, I'll get a death, death threat every once in a while because.

0:51:26 Thomas: On Smalley's blog post, the comment that said Black Lives Matter is a terrorist organization. So I'm sure that fine gentleman is floating out there on Patheos somewhere.

0:51:35 Alix: Oh, yeah. Yeah I mean I just I just get all all kinds of it. And the problem is not that people believe this. It is. Problem. It's not the only part of it. It is that we do a really shitty job of policing and protecting our own.

0:51:51 Thomas: Oh, is it written off of like, as like, oh, the internet kind of thing.

0:51:52 Alix: Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. So, you this also goes to demand. Are putting out shitty podcasts, shitty blog posts, change interaction, whatever, they're doing it because there's a demand for it. I'm talking about YouTube as well. We saw a big spike in anti-SJW stuff because it sells and people want it and there's a demand for it. There's a market for it, there's market for the Rubens out there, there is a market from Milo. I know Milo's going to be back.

0:51:56 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:52:23 Thomas: I hate to cut in, but it but absolutely was the thing that I don't know if you heard my Evergreen episodes, but by the Evergreen College thing where people were like, "I don't get it. Why didn't the students go out and do a media tour?" It's like, are you, because there's not an engine trying to drive a narrative for these students of color. There's an entire like economic engine behind Weinstein being able to go out and talk about how these crazy black kids are losing their minds. You know, like that, that there, there's a huge demand there. There's no demand in the mainstream media for like a college student to come talk about like intersectionality or something.

0:52:29 Alix: I did.

0:52:54 Alix: Right, right,

0:53:03 Thomas: But anyway, sorry to butt in, but it just, it reminded me of that.

0:53:03 Alix: Right. So, so no, but, but That's, that's exactly it. People are out there and they're, this is what they want to see. You know, people reach out to me and say, well, what do you think I should do about so-and-so? I was like, well, if you don't like it and you've spoken out, then stop listening and have your friends stop listening, because eventually the unsubscriptions, whether it's financial or not, that's the only thing that changes things back. Eventually, if someone is doing this and it becomes a financial driver, I mean, you know, you look at Rubin and Rubin has gotten progressively more ardent. Um, same thing with the Amazing Atheist who, you know, you look at TJ, TJ a couple years ago didn't, didn't sound like TJ now but You know, he's made his numbers, he's mad, uh, made his money over the last, you know, the last two years, you know, pushing up until that, million, Dusty Smith talked about it, and I can't believe I'm referencing Dusty, but Dusty, um, as you know

0:53:45 Thomas: Yeah.

0:53:59 Thomas: I don't think I know who that is.

0:54:00 Alix: The cult of Dusty, he was really big one time and then he got really big when he was doing the anti anti-SJW stuff. And then he started talking against the anti-SJW stuff and his, and his YouTube and everything else just tanked.

0:54:02 Thomas: Yeah. I don't know. Just collapsed. Yeah.

0:54:13 Alix: It just collapsed because not only is there no demand is he, he, I guess he took, um, the other pill. It was not the red pill, the blue pill. And he became, no,

0:54:14 Thomas: There's no demand.

0:54:23 Thomas: Do you convert back? Just because I noticed my bank account was a little bit lower.

0:54:29 Alix: He became more, more approachable, a little bit more reasonable. He got back to some of his his grassroots and again this is this is the same guy that you know that would make jokes on on MLK's birthday, I'm going to celebrate Malcolm, MLK his birthday by getting fried chicken and watermelon, that was his sense of humor. I mean, and it was just

0:54:33 Thomas: Okay.

0:54:47 Thomas: Which is such a hilarious joke too. I mean, that is creative

0:54:50 Alix: Oh so tell me about it, I mean that uh and that was just the tip of the iceberg when it came to Dusty and and he switched and he he he kind of did a little bit of an expose on what what he was seeing in the atheist movement, or at least on YouTube online. And I was like, I can actually agree with, with some of that again now. But Um, it's what, it.

0:54:52 Thomas: Joke writing there.

0:55:04 Thomas: Huh. But it probably cost his bottom line, it sounds like.

0:55:13 Alix: It killed it. It absolutely killed it,

0:55:14 Thomas: Because that's, and that's such a, that's why I worry about, because I'm not, I wasn't sure where you were going because initially you said, oh, stop supporting, try to affect. And I agree that, I mean, people should support what they like. That's how it's going to be. But when it comes to a war of whose Patreon accounts are going to win, there's a lot of white people in this country and it's so easy to make money off of that. And look at demographically. I mean the white victim narrative plays best to people who have money, you know, who have the conservative narrative that plays so much so well to people have the resources to support. And it's just such an uphill battle, I feel like.

0:55:34 Alix: That's right. That's right, okay.

0:55:54 Alix: But yeah, and then there's, there's one additional piece here that, that I realized when I left the country, which is, you know, a lot of this, a Lot of this money, a Lots of these views, a lots of these clicks aren't just in the United States. So they're coming in from out there. And so when you hear, you know, oh, I don't understand cultural appropriation or cultural appropriations is bullshit and it's being done in Canada or in South Africa or somewhere else, Netherlands, they don't have the context of what actually happened in the U.S., but they have the money, they have The Voices, and these things just resound in these echo chambers that just build build upon, build upon bill. And so when you start looking at, well, how many white people actually looking at this and agreeing this globally, it winds up making this little tiny minority voice of an Alix or an anybody else, a person of color that is trying to say, this is my story. The response that we get is, no, go away. This is our movement.

And I know that that tends it tends to be the sentiment of many Black atheists that are out there, which is exactly why every time I go out there and I have this conversation and people are telling me that this is their experiences, they're making the case for things like Black nonbelievers and Black atheist groups, et cetera, Black skeptics groups.

0:56:27 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah.

0:57:15 Alix: They're making a case for that because silence isn't an option for us anymore.

0:57:21 Thomas: And and I gosh, I just am noticing the time and I have a hard out and I have to go pretty soon. It sucks because I really didn't even touch on most of the things that I wanted to talk to you about. But don't worry listeners because this, that we intend, I think I can speak for you here, Alix. When, when, when I say we intend this to be a bit of a series, I hope you'll come back. You there're more to talk about. Let's, let's plan on it, man. Let's actually, let's schedule something right away because I don't, there's so much more to get to and listeners maybe can take this first first hour that you've spent on the show and can craft more specific questions that I can get to next time. I didn't even get to, I wanted to ask you about whether I should stop using the word whitesplaining. Okay, quick answer. Should I stop using the word whitesplaning?

0:57:47 Alix: Yeah,

0:58:05 Thomas: Because it triggers so many people who can't, okay. So, but no, you don't think I should?

0:58:05 Alix: I don't think so. I don't t think so either. I know. No, I think you should continue using it right now. I think that, oh man, we've got another four hours of conversation to have.

0:58:19 Thomas: I got a marriage to think about. I got a family. Oh, you do too.

0:58:24 Alix: I got to go feed

0:58:25 Thomas: You got a, yeah.

0:58:25 Alix: Kids. I've got five kids.

0:58:27 Thomas: Holy shit. You get, yeah, why aren't you leaving sooner than I am?

0:58:33 Alix: They're used to this now, they're Very much used to this, like

0:58:35 Thomas: Yeah, it's been an absolute pleasure. Let's get something in the books again very soon. What do you want to point people to if they want to get more of you? Where can we find you?

0:58:37 Alix: Oh.

0:58:46 Alix: I'm everywhere, no, you can, you, you can't, you, can, I'm everyone, um, absolutely, you can absolutely find me, I, I, you can find me on ABR quite often, actually.

0:58:54 Thomas: Right, but are you, do you blog regularly? Are you?

0:58:54 Alix: Uh, I, Do I, I, I can still find me on both the Orbit and Patheos Graffiti Wall for Patheos, and it's just a self-taught blog on the Orbit, um, so you can hit me there on Facebook, it's Alix, a-l-i-x-a-l, all about the IX Jewels on Facebook, and there's also a a public page if you just want to, you know, when I am touring I put my tour dates out there, etc, and, um, also you can follow me on Twitter, Alex331, um, so there, and I, I occasionally, I occasionally put my clothes back on and take pictures on Instagram. And so you can always, that's an ongoing joke. It's just terrible. But yeah.

0:58:57 Thomas: Okay.

0:59:38 Thomas: And most excellent. And where's the Starbucks Chronicles in particular? Because I really want to go check those out.

0:59:44 Alix: Oh, I'm, I think I'm going to turn that into a series. Uh, but yeah, you and I are on Facebook. You can read the one that I just, I put today, but if you just search Starbucks, yeah, they're all on Facebook at this, at this point, I mean, I don't know. I think, I, I feel like I'm gonna turn it into a book.

0:59:48 Thomas: Yeah. Are they on Facebook? Not a blog? Okay, awesome. Oh, that could be good.

1:00:01 Alix: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Starbucks Chronicles and what I learned about post-racial America during Trump from Starbucks.

1:00:08 Thomas: Yeah, excellent.

1:00:09 Alix: From Starbucks.

1:00:10 Thomas: I can't wait to check those out. I'm going to search them out. All right, Alix, we'll do it again very soon. Thank you so much for coming on.

1:00:16 Alix: Thank you for having me.

1:00:41 Thomas: All right, that's it for today's show. Thanks again to Alix Jules. Great stuff. Fascinating guy. And I'm looking forward to working with him again. And by the way, I've got some really cool interviews coming up. Lots going on in serious inquiries only world. Old. I had a fun time at the inciting incident hundredth episode. I got to meet Chris Cluey and in addition to hanging out with, of course, Andrew and Eli and Heath and everybody, all my friends and all that, but I got To meet Chris cluey and boy, that was a fun experience. Uh, we're going to try to get them on opening arguments coming up. He's a cool guy too. So really excited to just be doing what I'm doing here. And thank you so much for listening and supporting at patreon.com/seriouspod and with that said I will see you on thursday