AS186: Skepticrat Noah Lugeons!

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:30 Thomas: Hello and welcome to Atheistically Speaking. This is episode 186 and I'm your host Thomas Smith. Joining me right now is someone you most likely know better than me. Nah, I don't know. Noah Lugeons, welcome back to the show.

0:00:46 Noah: Well, I thank you, sir. Appreciate you having me again.

0:00:49 Thomas: No problem. And I can't believe we were talking a little bit, of course. I can believe it's been as long as it has. I thought it had been like, yeah, a couple months. And so I was almost hesitant to ask you again so soon. And then you did a little brief digging and found it's It's been, what, nine, what was it, eight months or something?

0:01:08 Noah: Yeah, something like that. Yeah. I think it was end of February. So, yeah, yeah. No, Skype keeps track of it for me. I thought the same thing going into it. I guess, you know, you do enough podcasts and time just flies right by.

0:01:19 Thomas: It is really true. And it must be even more true for you now that you've got three, right? Or have you started another one? But of course, yeah,

0:01:26 Noah: Since last we spoke, no, no. We're at three at the moment. Yeah we just launched a new show called God Awful Movies with our frequent guest, Eli Bosnick. He'd been coming on the Scathing Atheist for quite a while doing occasional Christian movie movie reviews. That was so popular that we had a bunch of people asking if we would do that as a more regular thing. And as soon as it worked out for Eli's employment, we started doing that. And it has been a blast.

0:01:51 Thomas: It is. I can attest to that. I'm sure most of my listeners are familiar with your work, I'm sure, but just in case they aren't. Yeah, scathing atheists, Noah Lugeons, of course the skeptocrat. And then, like you just said, God Awful Movies, I can attest it is the funniest thing I've ever heard. It's really good. It is.

0:02:09 Noah: Oh, wow. That's a hell of a

0:02:11 Thomas: Well, okay, here's the thing. Most of my questions, let me set this up. So, my idea was, I hear we've got some elections going on. I don't know, maybe I'm not in the know as much as you are, but I, yeah.

0:02:11 Noah: Bar right on. Awesome.

0:02:21 Noah: It's hard to find any coverage about it on the news media with it being so far off. But yes, there is one coming up eventually.

0:02:27 Thomas: Yeah, a little bird told me that there's some of elections going on. And you guys are so with it politically, you know, you have to keep up with it for your Skeptocrat show that I figured you might know a thing or two about the election. So I wanted to have you and Heath on. I want to mention that, of course. I don't know what to say. You mentioned, I think, on your show that Heath was out for personal reasons. And I just want to mention that I really wanted Heath to join, of coarse, and have you both on as the Skeptocrat to talk the elections. Just wanted to touch on that. He of course has a, you know, family thing going on. So I want to send, yeah.

0:03:02 Noah: Yeah. Yeah, unfortunately. And it's truly unfortunate for a number of reasons, obviously, most notably for his own family reasons, but also because he actually has a relevant education in this field. He's a poli-sci major and has a degree in it from one of the nation's best colleges and all that shit. And I'm just a guy who, you know, reads stuff sometimes and gets mad at it. But you

0:03:25 Thomas: Is that how the relationship works? I didn't know. You could have fooled me because you guys both really know your stuff. And I don't know what we atheists have decided to say, but I'm praying for Noah and it, no. So it's not that, but anyway, thinking of Noah and, uh, and, and hope everything gets, you know, goes okay. I don't know what really to say. I don't have the details, but, uh. Just wanted to mention that because, uh—oh, did I say Noah? I meant Heath. I'm sorry.

0:03:48 Noah: Did, you did. I was going to point it out after you were done with the whole heartfelt thing, but I was gonna thank you for it and say, I feel the same way about Heath, but you caught it.

0:03:51 Thomas: After I did an hour—after an hour of just talking about, like, how, how I would—you know, everything is going well and just I'm praying for him and all this. And of course I meant Heath. No, we are speaking with...

0:04:06 Noah: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I think, honestly, I don't want to get sidetracked on it, but I think honestly, my thoughts are with you is probably the appropriate atheist response to the my prayers are with kind of a moment, because it's also maybe a little slight dig at prayers. Oh, you have prayers. We have thoughts. Nice.

0:04:25 Thomas: Yeah, I've actually seen, and this is an interesting topic, not exactly political, but I've actually seen... Who was it? I don't know. Some comedian tweeted like, oh, my thoughts are with you. That's me being an atheist and still, you calling out God even though you're in this tough time in your life. Like, that was his analysis of what my thoughts Are With You mean. But it's like, what? Really? What are we he supposed to say, you know? Can't, right,

0:04:50 Noah: Well, maybe at least he understands a little bit better what it sounds like to us when somebody says, you know, my prayers are with. You know, I I don't get upset when people say that because it's like, yeah, you know, okay, you can pray for me, and if that makes you feel better, that's great and everything. But it is still kind of like, oh, well, you Know, my spidey senses are with you, you know, there's still at least a little bit of that.

0:04:57 Thomas: Yeah, yeah. The force, may the force be with, no, I don't know.

0:05:16 Noah: Yeah, there you go. There you go, that is the one we should use.

0:05:18 Thomas: Yeah, so anyway, long story short, I'm sacrificing a goat for Heath and his family, so I'm sure that will be well received.

0:05:25 Noah: That is much appreciated.

0:05:26 Thomas: So, you guys did a great episode on the, of course, the recent recent Democrat debate. And we can talk a little bit about that. I have some just general questions for you, Noah, because you are way more into politics. You may be surprised to hear I'm getting into it a bit more. I've always been, I'm not sure if you remember, but I've always been kind of anti-politics. Not anti, but just, you know, apathetic. But, you know, the election's got me going. It's interesting. I haven't a candidate that I like for once. So that kind of makes it a little better. I don't normally have a candidate I'm too crazy about. It's more like just, also, I live in California, so it's already decided. There's not really, whatever, there's not much I can do to affect the election, but yeah,

0:06:01 Noah: Right. Well, you now, I think it is, I am glad you brought that up because I think that is one of the things that bothers me most, most in political rhetoric is that the people who are in the deep blue state saying, well, I can't do anything about it, or the people who are in the Deep Red state saying I can do anything about it. And, and that is actually probably the best reason not to vote.

But I, but I do think that there's an enormous amount of value in showing, you know, say, say if you're in a deep blue state showing the Republican establishment that, hey, there's some of us Republicans out out here too, um, and and driving up that percentage even if you know that like 85 percent of of the um election is going to go against you and 100 of the electoral college votes are going to go against, standing up and being counted still has an effect on the parties and how they, uh, you know, how they choose their platforms, how they chose where and when they'll campaign, uh, so I think you still make a huge difference in that case even if it is, you know, just exacerbating or exacerbating would be the wrong word, but exactly, you know, like adding to that already overwhelming influence towards the party that you like, you know what I mean? Well,

0:07:13 Thomas: No, I understand that. And there's, actually, remember, there is quite a bit of a philosophy about this kind of thing. It is sort of a tragedy of the commons type problem, just because, really, when you look at the numbers, there are no reasons to get up in the morning, but that is a different story. But yeah, but I, I appreciate that sentiment. I do want to, I, I am going to try to vote in my first ever, uh, election, national election, I think, in it.

0:07:30 Noah: Yeah. Oh. Right. On. How old are you? Yeah.

0:07:43 Thomas: I. Am. I will be 30 by the time the voting actually happens.

0:07:46 Noah: See if. I had to guess, will you write about the time you get into politics? Right about 30.

0:07:46 Thomas: Yeah. There's.

0:07:50 Noah: Uh, because all of a sudden you start realizing, oh shit, you know, somebody's gonna have. To do this. And I guess. It's my turn. Fuck. Um.

0:07:53 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. Well.

0:07:57 Noah: That's. That was the same for me. I was right around when I was like 27, 28 when I started saying, all right, I guess I gotta get involved in this crap. All that hippie stuff they told me about how we were just going to make a perfect world, you know, by sitting around getting stoned at a, uh, you, a mega concert, that just didn't work out all that well. And took me, took me a good 10, 12 years of doing it to realize it wasn't working, so I.

0:07:57 Thomas: Yeah.

0:08:18 Thomas: It's, yeah, it still don't feel like anything good is going to happen from me caring, but I'm going to try to care. So my first question for you is, that we, so we saw the Democrats, we saw the Republicans. Were there any differences that you, I can't even, sorry, I can't get through the question. Were there any notable differences in the, in the two debates? It really is incredible because I've, I say this all the time, I say it again, I have Republican listeners. I'm sure you guys do. I.

0:08:47 Noah: Wish.

0:08:47 Thomas: I'm you guys have lots because you just have a million listeners. So statistically, you're probably going to run out of Democrats eventually. And so you must get comments. But what I can't believe, I can understand some, maybe you have some fiscal policy concerns and you want to vote conservative on that. But I really am hard pressed to just get all my biases out here. I'm very hard pressed to imagine anyone taking the Republican debate seriously. Like, I can't do it, you know, even if you were a Republican.

0:08:53 Noah: It.

0:09:19 Noah: It's. A reality show, it's insane. Yeah, well.

0:09:22 Thomas: At the same time, boy, was that Democratic debate kind of boring.

0:09:29 Noah: See, now, that's just the thing. Yeah. The presidential debates, especially primary debates where mostly everyone is agreeing with each other, should be. Boring. If it's interesting, Something has gone horribly wrong for your party.

0:09:31 Thomas: Yeah, I was gonna say that, yeah. And I would increase that to basically all of politics. Like, pretty much all of policy should be in an ideal world where we're all like Vulcans, you know, like it should just be the boring as shit. Like it should Just be, okay, what are we going to do? What is what are the problems? What's the best solution? Okay, we will do that. You know, that's really and things would be a utopia, we just all deal with the problems with the best science, best information available. It should be boring. However, it actually isn't. And it's kind of sad.

0:09:52 Noah: Right. Yeah.

0:10:11 Noah: Well, you know, I, Bruce Carlson, uh, is a fellow who does a great podcast called My History Can Beat Up Your Part. Or. Your. Uh, Politics.

0:10:18 Thomas: Oh, I've heard of that. I've read heard of that.

0:10:20 Noah: Uh, it's a great show, really enjoy it, and he had one of my favorite all-time lines about politics. He defined politics as the boring stuff that happens instead of war. So the less conflict, the less interesting, the better the politics, basically.

0:10:32 Thomas: Yeah. Right. I mean, definitely when you're talking about foreign policy kind of things, but I don't know. Domestically, it's a little different. There should always be boring stuff going on domestically. But so, yeah. Did you feel that at all? I mean I watched the Democratic debate. Toward the end, I was like, all right. I've pretty much heard what everyone's going to say. I don't really. I kind of started tuning out a little bit, whereas the Republicans Jenkins, you know?

0:10:46 Noah: Yeah, you would hope.

0:11:04 Noah: You just had to listen to Howard Stern. You know, you just want to know what happens next. Yeah. Well,

0:11:07 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Did you feel that at all? Are you such a junkie that you were, you're keenly interested the whole time?

0:11:13 Noah: You know, the thing is, is that I've watched a number of these primary debates over and it's never been this much fun. So, yeah, I mean, it's hard to ignore. Now, I don't think because, again, I've seen a number of these things last year. They had much, you know, almost as much of a clown car of candidates in the Republican Party. But the debates were still boring and everybody just trying not to make a gaffe or say anything controversial. And I think what you're seeing here is the direct result of the way that the Republican Party embraced the crazies immediately after Obama's election, election.

0:11:51 Thomas: Yeah.

0:11:52 Noah: You know, they embrace the birthers, they embrace the Tea Party people. Now, I should differentiate, because the Tea Party is just a broad term that's thrown out to mean a whole bunch of different things. Um, it sort of started with people with strong libertarian views, um, and then it became evangelical wackos and and people who want to overthrow the government over cattle grazing rights and shit like that. Um, but the, but the Republicans didn't differentiate between those voices and they sort of invited this insanity into their party, and this is the direct result of it, the, the fact that they've invited in the people who say, yeah, sure, Donald Trump, there's a president for you. You know, they're reaping what they sowed here, I think.

0:12:29 Thomas: Yeah. Well, I gotta, I Gotta stop things here. Cause we need to give Jim Webb his time to talk, but so he's actually just every single podcast. He needs a minute or two. Um, that was, yeah, it was the one time where you did kind kind of, could have used them, you know, in that debate.

0:12:40 Noah: Yeah, right, right. Exactly. I so wanted Donald Trump to run out there and give him a Rand Paul. You got your one percent.

0:12:52 Noah: Well, you know, you think about it. Consider this for just a moment as a demonstration of how insane the Republican debates were. You're talking about how the Democratic debate was just, you now, sorry, I had the perfect word for a second, and then it dripped off my tongue. So we're just going to say boring and, you know, just run of the mill.

0:13:12 Thomas: Procedural, just kind of. Yeah.

0:13:13 Noah: This is a debate that ended with one guy's closing statement or not closing statement, last answer being about killing a dude. You know, he just wanted to remind everybody that I've taken human life before it was over. That was the anodyne debate. See, I got back. Anodyne, that was the word I was looking for. I knew I'd find it eventually.

0:13:25 Thomas: Oh, man. Yeah, yeah. Oh, OK, that's good. I'm glad you found it because I don't know what the hell that means. So it's perfect, perfect for the show. Now I can I can figure it out, fortunately, due to the, uh, context. Uh, yeah, but that also, that guy also was so not any major part of anything, you know, like I, now again, I sure it was a little wacky and, and, uh. But I wouldn't call it exciting just because it, it's, there's no real threat that that guy has a chance, you know?

0:13:34 Noah: Oh, no.

0:13:58 Thomas: No one's really, there is a genuine fear in my heart when I think about the fact that if not Donald freaking Trump, we could have Ben Carson as president. It could happen.

0:13:58 Noah: Right, yeah, yeah.

0:14:11 Noah: No, no, no. We could have him as the GOP nominee. I mean, people would vote for Jim Webb over Ben Carson in the general, I think.

0:14:16 Thomas: I know, but for the sake, I would hope so. But wow, Carson, to me, this is something that I've tried to articulate, but I don't know if I'm able to do it. Maybe you guys are better. But when I hear this guy talk, I think, what is happening? Donald Trump, I get it, at least. It's like, okay, this is an entertainer. He's saying what he thinks, even though what he thinks is pretty dumb. Um, but he's, he's he's I get why people are supporting him. Not that I would, but I get it. Ben Carson just scares me because he, when, when he opens his mouth, it looks, it sounds to me just like dumb. Like, it's just like, duh, like everything he says sounds like a high school kid who didn't prepare for his, like, presentation.

0:14:44 Noah: Right. Right?

0:15:07 Thomas: Like, that's what it sounds like to me. And I don't understand how he has a chance to be the, it's horrifying to me, it really is.

0:15:15 Noah: Yeah, I don't get it. I, you know, first of all, he sounds like the psychotic serial killer version of Mr. Rogers. You know, that's sort of his speaking style. Secondly, and I apologize because this is something that can't be unseen. Scene. When he talks, he squeezes imaginary boobs in front of him. All his gesticulations make sense if you imagine a pair of boobs right in frontof him. But like the stuff that he's saying is so over the top insane. Like, you know, honestly, if it wasn't for Donald Trump, I think people would recognize just what a crazy bastard this guy is. But but Trump says the more flamboyant, crazy thing, whereas Ben Carson just gives you, you Ken Ham's talking points, basically.

0:15:58 Thomas: Yeah. And, man, I got a lot of things I want to ask. And I've lost track of the original question that I was trying to ask you. What are the Republican listeners of your show saying? I mean, because again, are there Republican atheists out there? And I'll include my audience now. You can comment, message me if you want. But are there Republican atheics that you've heard from, Noah, who are able to take those candidates seriously?

Or is it more just like a, well, I have some Republican ideals, which this is something I could kind of relate to. I have a few Republican ideals. I maybe want someone to get in there and cut government spending or something. But I can't take... They don't talk about that in the debates. They talk about just nonsense, you know, wacko stuff that's going to have no impact on the election, really. I mean, sorry, not on the... It's rather what I meant to say is after someone's elected, they don't do any of these things. Like, they talk about immigration, they talked about all these things that really just nothing happens with it. It's all for the primaries. Do you have those people, those listeners that are taking a candidate seriously? Have you heard from any of them?

0:16:49 Noah: Primarily, yeah. I haven't. I think it's very hard to find a good rational candidate within the Republican Party. And I don't mean that in an insulting way. I mean that, in order to be viable in the Republican party, you have to be so willing to cater to religion, and not just religion in general, but zealotry, really hardcore evangelism and stuff like that. So I think most of the Republican atheists I know are very much libertarian in their viewpoint. So, I know a few of them that like Rand Paul quite a bit.

0:17:25 Thomas: Yeah. Hmm. Going for Rand Paul. Yeah. Same

0:17:39 Noah: You know, obviously, if you look at his polling, you know, that's not a real viable candidate. A lot of them like Marco Rubio quite a lot.

0:17:46 Thomas: Hmm, yeah, that's good. That's starting to get toward a possible candidate. I mean, he could, he, I could see a world in which he gets the nomination.

0:17:54 Noah: Yeah, so can I, now, the problem with Rubio, I think, is that the Republicans have just spent eight years talking about all the problems that arose because because we elected a one-term senator to the highest office in the land and for them to throw out a one term senator you know as their nominee might be a little bit uh strange but you know the the fact is is that I think the Republicans see Rubio at least on some level as their Obama and The question is, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Well,

0:18:17 Thomas: Hmm? Well, he'd be better than a couple that I could imagine. Imagine.

0:18:24 Noah: I, well, you know, when it comes to the realistic candidates, because you know, say what you will about the polling numbers of Trump and Carson, but that's not, you know, by the end of the this whole thing, they're going to be, you know, just the sideshow that started it all off. When it comes to the realistic candidates, he's the highest polling. You drop out Trump and Carson, and it's him and then Bush. And then, you know, I don't know how it goes down from there. Ted Cruz, I think, Fiorina, Huckabee.

0:18:49 Thomas: Right.

0:18:49 Noah: But, you know, he is someone that he is like everyone's second favorite candidate. You know, everyone in the Republican Party seems to be like, well, I like, you, but I'd settle for Marco Rubio. And that might be in this particular go around, that might be the most viable thing that you could possibly have going for you, is that you're just not too off-putting to any part of the party.

0:18:49 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, interesting.

0:19:16 Thomas: And then that's the answer that I also have had. I've had a few people say they would support Rand Paul, but I have not had any listeners that support one of the front runners right now. So that's interesting. Now, what do you, who are you as an atheist, as a liberal atheist? I don't think I'm being presumptuous there.

0:19:37 Noah: No, not at all.

0:19:38 Thomas: Who scares you the most out of the Republicans? Who are you worried that actually has a shot

0:19:45 Noah: I would say John Kasich. He has done a pretty good job of positioning himself in the middle, closer to the center than anyone else in the campaign so far, which is not generally a good, it's not usually good for your primary strategy if you're the the Democrats favorite Republican, um, but I do think he is ultimately electable. He has the right kind of pedigree. He's he's been a governor of a major state, of a swing state, you know, um, so I feel like he could realistically get elected. And if you look at his history, he is an extraordinarily theocratically minded governor, um, you know, his his policies should insult the hell out of any atheist. And, you know, obviously, you know, look, Ben Carson's ideals are much scarier. Huckabee's ideals are much scareier. But, you know, as far as people who realistically could, you know, who I can see a scenario where they get the nomination, I would say Kasich is probably the one that frightens me the most.

0:19:46 Thomas: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, I can't wait till we're all tithing once Ben Carson gets the presidency. But so

0:20:45 Noah: And all being forced to say Merry Christmas when Trump gets elected.

0:20:49 Thomas: Here's something that I'm genuinely curious about. I saw someone posting, tweeting about this. I think it was a Republican, of course, but it gave me pause and I wonder, is this a real, is this an actual valid concern? Because I've done plenty of bashing of Ben Carson. I think he is colossally stupid. I don't know how. It's the classic onion headline, I think. No doubt you saw that's Ben Carson, what is it, overcoming upcoming stereotypes that brain surgeons have to be smart.

0:21:20 Noah: Right. Right, yeah, he's ruined the whole "this isn't brain surgery" euphemism. Hasn't. He, so the long lasting impact of his campaign.

0:21:24 Thomas: Yeah, exactly. But I did see someone post, and I wonder if you find this valid at all. Someone posted, why was it that back in 2008, any criticism that a Republican had of Obama, it was automatically a race thing. Democrats would just smear it as, well, you're just racist. You don't, it's not that you have a real problem with his policies, or maybe you do, but it's more that you just don't want a black guy in office. Why is it different when people like me, and this is a question I'm seriously wondering myself, is it difference? Why is different when we're criticizing Ben Carson?

0:21:44 Noah: Well, I think there's a couple of reasons. The first is that Ben Carson is legitimately bat shit crazy. I mean, you know, there's like this is probably

0:22:07 Thomas: But Obama is a Muslim and he wasn't born in this country and he's a communist. So, oh

0:22:08 Noah: Yeah He had some things going against. Don't get me wrong, but Ben Carson is like, you remember when, uh, Obama's first time around, I can't remember the name of his, his pastor that kept saying crazy shit. He kept getting Jeremiah, Jeremiah, right, was that it?

0:22:13 Thomas: Yeah, is Jim or Jeremiah right? Yeah.

0:22:25 Noah: Anyway, Ben Carson's is that pastor, though, you know, like he doesn't have that person in his past somewhere, he is that person. Well,

0:22:28 Thomas: Yeah. Yeah, Ben Carson has to hope we don't find any footage of Ben Carson.

0:22:38 Noah: Right, right, exactly, and and didn't it just recently came out that he tried to stab somebody when he was 14, uh, try to stab a friend. This is a guy who tried to stab a kid when he was 14 years old and then went into a profession where you chop people's heads open. If this guy doesn't have human remains in a deep freezer somewhere, I would be surprised. I would be more surprised if he didn't than if he did.

0:22:43 Thomas: Oh, really? I missed that.

0:22:57 Thomas: Oh, my gosh. Well, sorry, I have to bring up this brief sidebar. A while ago, I used to work at an ophthalmology practice, and we brought in somebody who was I'm blanking on what it was actually technically called, but it was more like surgery involved in ophthalmology. So like not just fixing your vision, like fixing the cosmetic, maybe damage that might have happened to your eyes or to that region.

0:23:26 Thomas: And he was going to give a presentation to the company about what he did because he was kind of a new, we didn't have that particular field at the company before. For. So, uh, so he gives a presentation and he started talking about how there was like a gunshot victim that he fixed, you know, and the guy, and of course he shows a picture of a guy who's like eyes out and all this stuff. It's like, oh my God. And then he showed a procedure where you like lift their whole, there's, I guess when you're old or when you'RE, I don't know, when something unfortunate has happened to you, it gets to the point where your, your skin is too far in front of your eyes and actually you can't see because like, you know, your eyebrows kind of droop too low or something. And he described this procedure where you're like, yeah, you just,

0:23:24 Noah: Gotcha yeah

0:24:13 Thomas: You cut a whole, like, crown at the top of the skull and then, like, pull the skin up and all this stuff, where I was like, this is just a person in society who can somehow do these things. And I really, after this presentation, I really was questioning, like, what kind of person can do this stuff? Like, on one hand, I'm sure it's good work, like a lot of it.

0:24:37 Noah: I'm glad that those people are out there doing it, but uh, yeah.

0:24:37 Thomas: Yeah. But at another point, like describing procedures where you're having to like saw a guy's bones somehow, like I don't, how do you do, how does one do that? I don'T understand how you can do it. And it just made me think of that with Ben Carson. Who knows what it's like with some of the procedures he's had to do. It is a really weird thing.

0:24:58 Noah: He's a, he's quite frightening, dude, but I, but I also think, going back to your original question about the racism issue that was leveled against people who are critical of Obama's, I think that that was way overplayed then as well. You know, there were plenty of people who had legitimate issues with with Obama's policies and proceed and whatnot. I mean, it's not like, you know, the Republicans were about to vote for uh a Democrat until they nominated a black guy, so I think it was overplayed then, and I think also, you know, let's face it, the people who aren't more likely to to shout racism are generally going to be on the left side, so. Oh,

0:25:04 Thomas: Sure. Hmm. Yeah.

0:25:31 Thomas: Yeah, that's true. Also, the Ben Carson, I didn't hear about the stabbing thing, but was this before or after he was trying to help a guy shoot the clerk at the chicken restaurant or whatever it was? What are you you talk about? Or did you not hear that one?

0:25:47 Noah: I don't know that, I haven't heard that one. I was, I guess you got to really stay on top of the news to know about all the crazy shit Carson's done. Oh,

0:25:49 Thomas: Oh, it was, well, it's in response to the, uh, Oregon shooting, I think. How did you really miss that one. It was, he said, uh. A shooter came in when he was in like a Popeye's chicken or something.

0:26:04 Noah: Yeah, this was when he was talking about how the Holocaust wouldn't have happened if the Jews had guns. Yeah, oh my God. I think I may have been too focused on the Holocaust, blaming the Holocaust on the Jews concept, and I might have missed the rest of it.

0:26:08 Thomas: Oh God. Yeah. Yeah, and he he said, hard to blame you. Yeah. Hard to blame you. But he, he said his big punchline, which I don't, I don't really think a punchline is maybe that appropriate when you're talking about what we could do to, you know, avoid the mass shooting massacres that just happened. Uh, his punchline was like, well, one time I was in a, I think it was like Popeye's chicken or something. And, uh, a guy, a a gunman came in and held the gun to me and I said, excuse me, you want that guy behind the counter? And like, that was his punchline.

0:26:47 Noah: Oh!

0:26:48 Thomas: I'm not making this up. Yeah. If you didn't know it, you would think I was making that up. You would think that was like a horrible racial like slur that I just made up because I hate black people or something. That is, why would you tell that story?

0:26:48 Noah: Oh, right, right. Yes, yes, exactly, exactly.

0:27:02 Noah: Well, the fact that you said it in a Popeye's fried chicken

0:27:05 Thomas: I know, but

0:27:05 Noah: Was just classless, man. I'm sorry, Sorry, but yeah.

0:27:08 Thomas: I'm just reporting what he said, I swear. No, but the whole part where you're just going to point the gunman in the right direction, how does that even relate to what you said about standing up and charging the shooter and all that? It's just nonsense. It's unbelievable nonsense. And I guess I'm encouraged that you, as someone I consider at least more of an expert than me, think he has no chance and that Trump have no chance. But I am just not as sure as you are.

0:27:37 Noah: Well, the thing about it, what you have to look at is if you look at the actual poll numbers, right? So Ben Carson and Donald Trump, between the two of them, are still polling less than 50%. So even between them, they can't get a majority. The problem is that the other candidates haven't shaved down to one or two. So if you're in the complete batshit crazy wing of the party, you have two candidates to choose from, maybe three. You can count Fiorina in there as well. But then if you're in the more moderate, realistic wing of the party, you know, you've got seven candidates to choose from.

So I have a feeling that once that starts to whittle down a bit, you'll see, you know, a lot of the support swing behind Bush or Rubio or whoever comes out on top. But yeah, I just can't imagine. And like, I think at least some of it has to be, you know, if a pollster called me right now, I'd say, yeah, I'm a Republican and I'm definitely voting for Carson. Keep that dude in the race. I'm a, you know, as a political satirist, he is gold.

0:27:48 Thomas: Hmm. Yeah.

0:28:34 Noah: Well,

0:28:35 Thomas: Well, let's go back over to the Democrats then. Is there a skeptocrat slash, you know, scathing atheist, Heath and Noah and possibly Eli, officially endorsed Democratic candidate? Or are you guys split? Have you talked about it? Who do you like?

0:28:55 Noah: Yeah, I definitely can't speak for the other guys there. And I'm not going to be super popular when I say that I actually like Hillary at this point. I know Heath and I believe Eli, too, are both big, you Know, they're feeling the burn.

0:29:11 Noah: But, you know, I think it's sort of the paradox of democracy that we admire people who are uncompromising, but the ability to compromise is what makes a good politician. You know, so, like, Bernie Sanders is really easy to get excited about, um, and he may be a viable candidate simply from his ability to to motivate the base and motivate young voters and people who don't traditionally vote, um, that being said, I think that's more of the long shot than Hillary, again, who I think is the more, like, okay, she's my second favorite kind of candidate for everybody, but I do think, you know, know, Bernie would have a huge uphill battle to fight in the general election, not just because some of his positions are so anathema to a large base of the voters, but also because the money machine that would, you know, come to defeat him, that would line up with whoever the Republican nominee is, is much, much greater with a Bernie Sanders nomination than it is with a Hillary Clinton nomination who would more or less be able to split that up.

0:29:22 Thomas: Hmm.

0:30:09 Thomas: Yeah, I

0:30:09 Noah: So, well,

0:30:09 Thomas: I have heard that is definitely a worry. I, I mean, I, I think my head is probably a bit in the clouds with, I, I kind of wish Bernie could win, you know, I, I, I, uh, I don't know, I like a lot of his ideas and and but I do, is your support of Hillary, or rather your, you know, um, um, fear of, I guess, Bernie not being able to win the general, is that the bigger motivator or smaller motivator? What, what's more, is it more about their policies for you and their character? Or is it that you'd be worried that Bernie would just not be able to winning the general?

0:30:46 Noah: I think that's that's probably the majority of my concern is that, you know, and I know that a lot of people accuse me of just parroting the official line about how he's unelectable. I don't think he's unelectible, but I don'T think he'S as electable as Hillary is. But my other concern here is that I think that, and again, this is not based on a whole hell of a lot, but II feel like Hillary is more able to work the political machinery in Washington.

0:31:10 Thomas: Hmm.

0:31:11 Noah: She's simply better at compromising. And I know, again, you KNOW, it's not a sexy thing to say that this is a person who largely blows whichever way the wind's blowing. But when it comes to social policy, that's kind of what you want. You know, you kind of want somebody who's not too firmly entrenched in their ideas to make a compromise. You don't know. Obviously, I'm sure there are certain issues on which Hillary is uncompromising. She's, you know, throughout her career as a politician and before that, she's been uncompromised on women's issues. And those are the most important issues to me personally. So I support her very much on her policies there. I think, you Know, obviously, Bernie has a great record on that as well. But I also feel like, you know, if you look at the way the Obama presidency has played out, it's hard to say that it wouldn't have been more successful if he had been better at compromising up front.

0:31:58 Noah: You know, he'd been better compromising with the Affordable Care Act. Now that may say, you say, that we end up with the same thing, but that he starts with something a little bit crazier and then whittles it down as he compromises with the Republicans. I think Hillary Clinton is probably better at that element of politicking than Bernie Sanders.

0:32:16 Thomas: That's an interesting point. I certainly seems, I look at Bernie Sanders again, not, not knowing too much about it, but I look At him as he's a million years old. He's got the the things he believes in and he's, he's pretty much ready to just try to do that or, or die trying. Like, so I see what you're saying there.

0:32:34 Noah: Well, yeah. And it's like he has such a long record of being sturdy and steady on these very important issues and being a real progressive forward thinker on these issues, even when it wasn't politically popular. And in a lot of ways, that is the most important thing to a lot of people, you know, when they're when they're going to vote. And I think that appeals to a a lot of people so I'm you know I certainly don't want to like come off as saying you know well no I you know I would prefer uh I think I would refer Hillary but you know like I would certainly vote for Bernie I'd get excited about Bernie um but if it you know if it comes down to a 50 chance of Bernie or a 75 chance of Hillary I'm going to hedge my bets you know well

0:32:40 Thomas: Yeah. Sure.

0:33:13 Thomas: Yeah, well, that's, that's very, very well said. I think thing that I've found that maybe, and this is just my personal preference, Bernie is the first person, I think he might be the first politician I've seen who I really think he actually believes what he's saying. I mean, I am just the most cynical when it comes, on a scale of one to the most cynical, when it come to these speeches and these debates and all this crap. I know, I'm sure they believe in some of their issues and all that, but really, for me, in the back of my mind, I'm thinking every single one of them is thinking, what do I say and how do I see it in the way that's going to be the most pandering to which certain group and all of that. And I get it. It's how you have to be pretty much. And, you know, whatever. But Bernie is the one candidate out of all of them, except for maybe some of the really lower supported ones.

0:34:06 Thomas: And they probably don't have support for that reason. They actually sound sincere. You know, he is sincere. He believes in what he's doing. He's, well, I was curious to hear on your show. I think Eli had said, because he always emphasizes that he, you you know, he's, he doesn't have a super PAC and there's no, you know no big donors and all that. And Eli had said, he thought that was, he was a little bit full of shit on that.

0:34:30 Thomas: Like he does have a lot of big, oh,

0:34:30 Noah: He doesn't have a super PAC and that's a big damn deal you know III don't wanna I don't I don't want to undercut that. And I think Eli made a point of specifying that that is actually a very big deal and it speaks volumes to his integrity as a politician. But the idea that he tries to give out that there's just a bunch of grannies giving him five bucks at a time, that's probably not accurate either.

He's got a number of people who are at the limit of legal amounts that they can donate to his campaign. There's a lot of law firms that are organizing massive fundraisers for him and stuff like that. But I think honestly, I think Eli may have overplayed that a bit on when we were reviewing the debate there, Because I think it is it is very significant and it's probably worth all of the time that he spends talking about it, how different the financing of his campaign is from the financing of his opponents. That being said, it also strikes me as a unilateral disarmament, you know, like it's all well and good to say I won't use a super PAC. You know, Like Obama said, I'll take public funding before the election. But then when he He realized he could outspend his competitors four to one. He says, yeah, never mind on

0:35:35 Noah: That shit. Because it's the way to win. You know, like my least favorite argument I've heard when the Tea Party thing was really getting big, a lot of people would say, oh, these people are against Social Security, but they're taking Social Security checks. Well, that's a dumb argument. They've been forced to pay into Social Security. Of course they take the checks. You know? That's not to say that they're not, you know, that lacks integrity. If you're forced to buy insurance and then you cash in on that insurance, you can still be against being forced to by the insurance. And I think that's, you know, kind of the same mindset that goes on there.

0:35:08 Thomas: Okay. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. Right.

0:36:05 Thomas: Interesting. Yeah. Well put. I, well, I, I'm hesitant to say it's the same just because I think he really is running on a campaign of, we got to get the money out of politics. And so I think it's a little more directly contradictory there.

0:36:19 Noah: Yeah, no, I think you're right. I think

0:36:20 Thomas: OK, but but I agree with what you said about the Social Security thing. I actually I remember thinking that a long time ago. Now that you bring it up, it's like, yeah, well, I'm going to go ahead and cash this check when I've paid into all this. And that's my only option. But if you're against it happening as a policy, then that's kind of a separate issue. Man, I've got a lot more questions. However, I think I may need to just ask for the, and I could spend hours on this, where in the world did you find Eli Bosnick? And I don't have asked it before, but really what planet is this guy from?

0:36:21 Noah: You're right. Oh,

0:37:01 Thomas: It's almost you and Heath, you and Noah, no, you and Heath are almost doing yourselves a disservice because you guys are two of of the most talented guys, talented podcasters out there that I know. And then you invite this guy who's just from another planet. Like he really, I, I don't mean to slight you and Heath at all. This dude, I

0:37:25 Noah: No. I completely understand where you're coming from. He is

0:37:28 Thomas: Don't get it. I don't get where, what level he's operating on. It's just Just unbelievable.

0:37:33 Noah: A ninja of humor, dude. He really is. And I'll say, you know, it's not, I mean, he's always like that. You know, before we start recording, after we're done recording, when we're talking to him in a pre-production meeting, when I'm just chatting with him about what's going on, he is always on to that degree. I don't know how you, I don't know how it's possible. I'm just, you know, look, I'll tell you what my, my secret of success, um, as a podcaster has been to surround myself with people way more intelligent and talented than me. And so far that's working really well. Um, so yeah, Eli Is just, uh, you, you know, I met him originally. Uh, we had a habit in the company that I worked for of, uh we had, uh or not a policy but a, uh a tradition of whenever anyone left the company we would have a roast for them.

Now this is a job where most of the people that worked for the company were just working while they were in college and they all went off to do other stuff so at the end of their two three years of employment we'd we'd send them away with a big roast and uh Eli was a friend of one of the ex-employees that came to do his roast and as soon as I heard this guy um I said like I was like, oh my god, this guy is gold. Got to talking to him, he's a an ardent atheist to say the least.

0:37:41 Thomas: Yeah.

0:38:06 Thomas: Well, I don't buy that.

0:38:42 Thomas: Yeah,

0:38:42 Noah: Um and I just knew he would be gold for our show. I, I originally had him on, I believe episode four was the first time he ever came on our show, and this was right right after Pope Benedict retired, and we had him on to run for Pope. And it is still, you know, we've done 137 episodes since then. It still might be my favorite moment in the history of the show.

0:39:00 Thomas: It's really unreal. And I hope people will forgive me for saying this, but the first thing that's occurred when I hear him, it just keeps occurring in my head when I see him. It's like, he's like Robin Williams, but funny. I keep keep thinking that. It really is true. I love Robin Williams as a person and an actor, but I never found him very funny. It's the weirdest thing. I may be the only person. I couldn't watch his standup.

0:39:16 Noah: Oh, wow.

0:39:27 Noah: You may be, yeah.

0:39:29 Thomas: I didn't like it. But when I hear just the way that Eli goes on and on at a given premise, he's never out of ideas for it. I get the sense that your recording is likely like, okay, and Eli goes and goes and you must just have to look at your watch and be like, okay, okay, I guess we'll stop. Like, whatever the given joke is, we'll probably have to stop here after 15 minutes of Eli going off, you know?

0:39:53 Noah: And what's amazing is it can be your joke, like, right, like you set it up and you knew you were going to say it and you had a whole punchline worked out on it and he's got seven much funnier punchlines to go after you. It's absolutely unreal. Real well.

0:39:55 Thomas: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's unbelievable. But it's sort of that pacing, like Robin Williams in a way. And personally, I find Eli a lot funnier. No offense to Robin Williams. I do really love the guy. I mean, he's beloved, of course, but But, well,

0:40:15 Noah: That's a that's a hell of a compliment, I think. You know, funnier than George Carlin might be the only one that I would put higher on that, so, well, but

0:40:23 Thomas: I better not say, because we'll never be friends again, I don't find George Carlin that funny. I never, so, okay, now that I've lost all my listeners and everyone's lost respect for me, I want to say, exactly, ooh, man, okay.

0:40:34 Noah: Now it's the real problem is that now everybody's like, well, I can't trust him on how funny he said this Eli guy was obviously, he doesn't know funny when it bites him on the ass. Oh,

0:40:42 Thomas: Well, then all I can say is if you're weird listeners who live in a cave and haven't checked out, you know, the, I guess you would most, if you want to hear Eli, God Awful Movies would be the number one source, I would say. But he's also, of course, on Skeptocrat and Scathing Atheist all the time. Check it out for yourself and then go watch some of Robin Williams' standup and see if I'm crazy. Robin Williams standup was, I mean, I'm sorry, but it was like just the most common jokes.

0:40:56 Noah: Yes, well, I'll tell you, you got

0:41:13 Thomas: He literally has jokes about when you're high, you like to eat chocolate. You know, it's like, I get it. I've heard it.

0:41:16 Noah: Yeah, okay, so the the thing is, is you got to go back to when he was doing a lot of cocaine, not just a little cocaine. If you go back to the mid-70s when he was really coked up on it, like, and he was just completely in his improv fucking, uh, mind all the time. That's when he was at his best. He definitely got worse as he got older, um,

0:41:23 Thomas: Oh, okay. Okay. So do we need to have an intervention for Eli? Because he must be doing a lot of coke.

0:41:44 Noah: Well, we can't intervene. I'm making my living off of this guy at this point, so, yeah,

0:41:46 Thomas: That's a good point. I better strike that from the record. Well, I have a million more questions, but I think I'm trying a new format of not doing two million hour interviews. So I think I might try to go ahead and let you go. But I will say that I'm very keen, especially since since I've now found out it had been eight months since I had you on before I want, I would love to get maybe the three of you, if I can, although I don't know if I could handle that on my show. I don'T know ifI can.

0:42:14 Noah: You definitely have to go for the three-hour interview, uh, format once again.

0:42:16 Thomas: Okay. I will. I may. And, and I may have to just, I don't know if I can handle one Eli actually, now that I think about it, but I would LOVE to get you guys on to talk some God awful movies. I'VE got some questions for you on that. I actually have have a question, a good question. I'm not going to tell you, but a slight stupid teaser. I have a question I really want to ask you guys about that podcast, and maybe I can get you on sometime later to talk about it. But in the meantime, thanks for coming on so much. Thanks for giving me some of your, I'm going to go ahead and call it expertise. You do a podcast about politics, you must be an expert, right?

0:42:55 Thomas: I think that's what officially makes you an expert. Thanks Thanks for coming on, Noah, as usual. Thanks for all the shows. I mean, you do a lot, and your listeners definitely appreciate it, and I appreciate you coming on, so thanks.

0:42:54 Noah: Oh yeah, sure, why not, yeah, thanks Thanks a lot for having me again, man.

0:43:21 Thomas: Alright, always love having Noah on the show, and Heath, and, well, someday Eli. Still haven't gotten Eli on. Okay, gonna do it. I absolutely meant it that I want to get maybe all three of them, or maybe just, maybe I'll go for just Eli for a show. That'd be cool. Either way, I'm totally happy either way. They're all great guys. They put out great shows, so thanks again to Noah for coming on, and thank you guys for listening. Another great week. I like this new format a lot. I want to go ahead and thank my super cool, awesome, amazing patrons, and that will go a little something like this. Let's see. Do we have any new ones this week? Let me find out here. Did we thank Dave Newman already?

0:44:08 Thomas: I'm not sure if I thanked Dave Newman, Kelly Spears, if I did. Oh, well, you get double thanks. So maybe no new patrons this week, but that's of course okay. OK, and now I'm going to thank my top patrons, Zimu Zinu Jr., Adrian Borschoff, Michael, Jonathan Moyet, Jay Aldenwalt, Bangs Naughty Bits. Thank you guys so much. My top amazing supporters, Peter Skelton, Brian Gerfort, Dale, Matt Garrett, Samantha and and so on. OK, thank you, guys. You can go to Patreon.com/atheist if you'd like to support the show. With that said, I will see you next week for another great round of shows. Thank you.