SIO365: I Finally Get To Defend Myself. A Little.

Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain errors — the audio is the record.

0:00:16 Thomas: Hello, hello! This is Serious Inquiries Only. I'm Thomas Smith, and it's a weird one today. I'm sure you noticed a bit of a hiatus, a bit of an interruption. I have 1100 reasons for that, and some of them are very good. Start with the good, why don't we? I came up with an idea for a way to solve a lot of the kind of practical issues with podcast, essentially it's a plan that will hopefully ensure that this is the last of such hiatuses, hiati. I'm excited about this, but it has involved a tremendous amount of work on a new thing at a time when things couldn't be harder or more stressful. And I found that a particular level of hell is trying to do creative work while you're under the most stress of your life, particularly financial stress. That's not easy. That is a tough thing to do. So I kept thinking it was ready, but I have very high standards. And And I kept thinking I'd be able to post, but I haven't. And so it was this thing where it's like every day I was like, all right, I should be able to get this up soon. Should be able TO get this UP soon, and you it, got it a bit late, and then some really horrendous setbacks in the other area of my life happened. So that, of course, made it even harder, hence the even longer delay. I will tell you, on the good news front, I believe you will, we'll see the results of that labor, hopefully Monday. Think it's going to be so perfect. It's going make everything make sense in terms of the podcast and what I'm doing here. And I truly think I landed on a great structure for everything. I cannot wait to share it with you. Please tune in next week for it. Super excited. Okay. Now, to way less pleasant, and stuff, what want to say at the outset, this isn't a normal SIO. This isn't an expert interview, and I apologize for that. Is what I think a lot of people would label drama. This is drama, and I understand that. I understand how strangers would look at it that way, and if you are not interested in that, that's 100% okay and makes sense. But to me, this is not merely drama. This is my fucking life. I am a real person who values highly being ethical and making the right ethical choices at all times to the best of my ability. I've had to sit here for four and a half months while my reputation, my character, everything I value most has been attacked, not with things, things that are, you know, true, with complete distortion and often lies about what I did, what I knew, how I acted, what my options were, how I reacted. Hell. So, yeah, this is going to be a drama, quote-unquote, episode. Again, skip it if you'd like to. This is very much my life and everything I care about. And I have been given, I've been handed the slightest, greatest opportunity to fight back here. I am taking that opportunity, but first I want to catch you up. I'm about to tell you right now is, objectively speaking, probably the opposite of what any, like, PR person would ever recommend, but the mental toll of sitting here in forced silence for now four and a half months been, I just can't even express, words cannot express. Hate it. I would trade anything for the truth. I've realized I would give up anything for the truth, I've realized. I am so particularly bothered by lies and by misinformation that I'm going to refer you right now to things that make me look bad. I don't care because I just want the the fucking truth out. I don't care. So you may have seen response to my complaint went live on the courthouse website or whatever, attached to it, he included very messages I sent him in the peak of the crisis soon after the article dropped, and they are very selectively quoted, and he is badly misrepresenting, the make it seem like I didn't believe his accusers. Is just not true. I just want to say, these messages look really, really bad. They're me incredibly angry with, in particular, three of, I don't know, X number of accusers. I'm calling them liars, and I'm angry at them in a private message to Andrew. That, yeah, on its face, that looks really bad, but that's not anywhere near the whole truth. So, so even though I could have just never mentioned this on the show and kept it from you and hoped you wouldn't see it, I don't care. I truth out there. And there is so much more. There's so much. I am hopefully somewhat close to being able to tell you my story. Hopefully. There's so much. Have never wanted to run from judgment or criticism. Indeed, chance to improve and see what I could have done better in any situation. If I am to be judged, I want to be judge on the actual fucking reality of what happened on this planet Earth, that is so many goddamn parsecs away from what, in particular, three people involved with this whole mess have led you to believe. For four and a half months, I have not said anything, sitting on a mountain of good evidence that would greatly alleviate this problem. Why? Because I'm embroiled in a legal battle. The best advice is you're not ever supposed to say anything about anything. That's the best legal advice at all times. And also, it against everything I believe to try to have any sort of public fight with another accuser. Fucking sucks. The last thing I've wanted. But forced me to respond. And I responded in the Facebook group, but I know that's but a fraction probably of listeners. So I want to make sure I catch you up on that. So here I am introducing what's going on and inviting you to look at the evidence for yourself. And you may come out with a more negative view of me after this. In the Facebook group, I'll read you what I posted just to catch you up on kind of what's going on. I posted, "Hey everyone, you may or may not have seen, as part of Andrew's counter complaint, he shared some messages I sent him privately in the peak of the crisis. The article dropped, they are very selectively quoted, and he is badly, sadly misrepresenting the context to make it seem like I didn't believe the accusers. This is false. But even knowing the clear bias of the source, I do not blame anyone for being alarmed by them. He did this because he knows, in order to defend myself, I will be limited in what I can say, and I must depend on people to understand a bit of nuance. That is a win -win for him. It is another way to cause us more harm. Also knows that when in a legal battle, the best advice will always be to say nothing, and anything said costs thousands of dollars to vet. It is truly the worst fucking system. I'm going to say as much as I can right now, which obviously isn't anywhere near enough. But keep in mind, I say these things with the knowledge that everything I've ever said in a private message to anyone could potentially be public someday. I mentioned that this is the worst fucking system? So everything I say, I have evidence for, and I will share it when I can. Know me. If I said something, I had good reason. Am pathologically honest. I'm not hiding some secret version of me. I have always believed any accuser who shared their story with me. For example, there was one accuser who said she was afraid of legal repercussions. And I told her not only would I protect her, I would also pay her legal bills if Andrew sued her. Is unfathomable to me that she neglected to make this note. Have never and would never be angry with anyone for telling their truth. I was only and am only very angry and saddened that there were certain people involved in this who told extremely damaging falsehoods. With one exception, the falsehoods I'm angry about are not about the misconduct allegations themselves. They're about other things, like what I knew, when, and how I acted in response. They're also about what options I had available to me at certain times. Is devastating to me that this happened. It's really sad, and it was unnecessary, necessary, made no effort whatsoever to verify anything with me before accusing me of being complicit in sexual misconduct. Think about how serious that is. Journalist in a thousand years would ever be so irresponsible. But because of the way our community is organized online, one person on social media was able to spread that false allegation about me to potentially tens of thousands of people. Notice above I said, with one exception, is one person whose allegations I doubted. I have my reasons, and they are based in no small part on information that you do not have. However, these messages of mine Andrew has shared were from a very brief moment in time when I thought that actually fucking mattered. Quickly, it did not matter that this one particular set of accusations were suspect. Once the full pattern emerged, it became clear what was happening. An ideal world, I privacy of being able to go through that process and come out the other side without having my worst thoughts made public out of context and weaponized against me. Indeed, knowing my fallibility and that I might not yet have all the information, information was precisely why these were things I only expressed privately. We don't say publicly because we don't want to make a very harmful mistake, also about us. Leave you with a few of the things I said in private that might more accurately show my heart. The PR firm Andrew outsourced his moral accountability to was pressuring me to whitewash and minimize the accusations, I told. They wanted me to make completely questioned whether they had even seen everything. I responded, quote, 'Those screenshots are publicly available in several Facebook groups. They also make paragraph four and five absolutely unacceptable. This is way more defensive of Andrew than I am willing to be. I'm sorry,' quote. I also told Andrew, quote, 'I am just not willing to compromise principles, and I think my timeline is probably different than the PR firm's,' end quote. Promise my full story will come someday, hopefully soon. There is so much more to say. It'll be a Hardcore History rather than an episode of The Daily. I do hope you will do me the kindness of hearing my side. Thank you, listener, Thomas S." That's what I wrote in the group. Realize it might have been a little unclear when I I referred to the timeline. Was my kind of fear and perception that they were looking at this as like a relatively quick apology and come right back as though things were fine. And I was worried about that perception, and I strongly disagreed with that. So again, I will link where people can see this, like, really damaging stuff that was never intended to be public because I'm just, I don't, I'm don't care about anything but the truth anymore. I just, the seen so much misinformation and outright lying. Will volunteer, go look at the texts. They're bad. I was really, really upset at these people for lying about what I did, among other things. Yeah. I was upset at them. I, I called them liars in private that I never intended anyone to see. Very curious what everyone have in their most private texts at one of the worst moments of their life about people who they thought were actively ruining their reputation. I wonder what their texts might look like. Anyway, why am I telling you all this? Why am I here now? Well, as I've said, I've been kind of trapped in this awful silence for multiple reasons. Today I noticed that among the lies being told about me was an incredibly audacious set of lies that have, have nothing to do with Andrew. Weirdly enough, that freed me up to be able to talk about this particular set of lies and provide all evidence so people could see. So at the very least, I could take this one compact set of lies that I'm allowed to talk about and defend myself one time. And I feel so relieved to get one chance to do that in four and a half months. And so I apologize. I deeply apologize if this seems like a shit episode or something, because it's about two people tweeting about me. I get that. I get that, but it also represents the first time that I've gotten to tell, to defend myself about something, to actually provide evidence. Can't tell you how hard that's been. I cannot tell you how hard that has been. Want to say another thing, and this is just me fearing the, know, the worst here. Never, ever, under any circumstances should anyone ever go after anyone I'm talking about or try to, like, harass them or do anything like that ever, never ever. Truly hope that wouldn't happen. Haven't seen it happen, but I just want to make extra clear that that is never something I would ever be okay with, no matter how, how much I think these people have harmed me. I'm not okay with that. Just want, I just want people to have the truth. It. I'll provide one more reason why this is so important to me, despite it, maybe from the outside, it just seems like, why are you wasting your time with some tweets. Well, in the wake of the fallout, these people, people spread, in my view, defamatory lies about my conduct far and wide in places I don't even know about. They told people I don't even know about, I have lost so many friends. I've lost so many friends in this process. And the, I think the worst feeling is like, I don't, I don't even know who I've lost. Don't know whose respect I lost forever, who will never listen to my side of it ever. That such a tough feeling. So yeah. Okay. This thing I'm going to respond to is some tweets back and forth. I grant that, don't know how much this has been shared in private behind my back. I know the, I hope you'll forgive me. Not that you have to listen to this. You could, could have tuned out minutes ago, and that'd be totally fine. I get it. But I hope you'll at least recognize why this is something I feel the need to do. In wake of these texts coming out that, again, admittedly look horrible, understood, already explained as much as I can about that, two of the people who I believe have defamed me in the wake of this had an exchange on Twitter that, and this is also something I, I post it in the group, in the OA group, if you'd like to go, if you'd rather just go see it, but I'm going to tell the story here because it's a fucking mental relief to be able to talk about something. One tweets, with a picture of the texts I've told you about. He posted an audio of how traumatized he was, how much he believed us, and how he'd been victimized too. But behind closed doors, he showed he didn't give a fuck about us and just cared about his money. Person two: his hundreds of thousands of dollars of annual income. Person one: again, but he could only afford to pay his co-host and editor less than minimum wage. Person two: and hundreds of hours of volunteer labor. Person one: such a sad boy TM, he's totally a feminist. I don't know what someone could think could justify that ridiculing of someone's emotional breakdown and talking about what happened to them. I now, it's being alleged that I paid my co-host and editor, that could only refer to Lindsay, less than minimum wage, and so I would like to read to you my response to this and link the relevant proof. Going to read my OA group response, I may, I don't know, come out of it and say more things. I'm not sure. Here we go. This simplifies things quite a bit. This is beyond cruel. I hadn't seen this particular batch of and defamatory lies until now, I'll leave their names out of it. Person one, person two, who, me, with falsehoods about the Andrew history, have made a massive mistake. They decided to defame me based on lies that have, have nothing whatsoever to do with Andrew. And so I'm completely free to say what I want and post all the corroborating evidence. Post a drive link with all backing documents in the first comment. Know some of you may just label this as drama. I understand that reaction, but to me, this is not just drama. This is my fucking life. Is my reputation and my character, which is literally the most important thing to me. Being defamed this badly and falsely and not being able to fight back has been horrible, just fucking horrible. So apologies, but massive post coming. So these tweets can only be referring to Lindsay. This helps unravel some of the mystery of what in God's name has happened here. And it's so fucking sad. Will for the rest of my life be heartbroken and confused about what happened with Lindsay. But I don't know for sure if Lindsay is driving this. And, and because I don't know for sure, I'm not going to fully get into the Lindsay thing right now, because if this is just some bullshit that person one and person two are spewing, I don't want to needlessly violate Lindsay's privacy by going into detail over what happened there. I'm going to post the dollars and cents of it and some details because I must in order to refute these lies. Invited Lindsay to be a semi -regular on SIO sometime in late 2020. At this time, Lindsay was completely unconcerned about money for being on the show. She was a full -time college professor, and the amount of money I could even pay from SIO was negligible compared career. Nevertheless, I insisted on paying her for being there. Normally, guests on podcasts are almost never paid. You, they want to to sell, sell their book or promote their podcast or something. I have appeared on, I would have to imagine, literally hundreds of episodes of other people's podcasts by now. I have never been paid once, because that's just not really how the business model works. But I really loved Lindsay's contributions. I loved her expert insight, and I really wanted to make sure she felt appreciated on the show. So I insisted on paying her $100 an episode. At this time, I was making something like $400 an episode. So means I cut her in on 25% % of SIO profit per episode, just purely from my decision with no ask from her. I'm not looking for a medal. I know that isn't a ton of money, but it feels at the very least pretty fair. If she did three hours of work per episode, which seems pretty reasonable, that's $33 an hour. Maybe she does four, and it's $25 an hour? I've the documents is our PayPal history where you can see I paid her the amounts that correspond to my very boring spreadsheet tallying up the same. There's always a spreadsheet. Also in the documents, screenshot of my SIO income from a relevant period. The final net amount that goes into the account is on the right. You'll also see the line items for Patreon pledges to other people. Some point, Lindsay expressed a desire to leave her teaching job. I was excited about this, and I, I really thought it would be a cool opportunity to work together to grow SIO. So told Lindsay and her even asking if she wanted to do this, I would cut her in on half of SIO profit. I really believed there was a chance the show could take off, and she'd really be doing nicely and not have any stress about leaving her full -time job. Attached proof of these payments. I estimated $100 in monthly show expenses, took that out first and paid 50% % cent of the rest to each of us. After, we put out a call for pledges based on the fact that Lindsay was making it her full -time job. Some of you amazing people chipped in, and as you can see, I paid Lindsay $666 .01, we lulled at the satanic number, for I think we only did three or four episodes, and then $1 ,080 and and $1 ,339. It was a nice upward trend, and I was excited until Lindsay's disappearance in December and paid her the last of the SIO money that she was due, $512 .51. So that's SIO. Does that seem fair? Does that seems, I don't know, actually pretty fucking generous? Just cut someone into half of something you've spent eight years building without them even asking? Is merely a guess, but perhaps Lindsay felt like she was putting a lot of unseen hours into that, and so therefore the hourly rate was bad? If that's true, I would apologize, but that's just how going 50 -50 on a project works. Was always free to object or quit. She never expressed anything like this to me. I, how many countless unpaid hours I've put into SIO and all my projects. You don't have a guarantee of a salary when you try to build something that you have a 50% % stake in like that. But what you get in return is, imagine if we achieved even 10% % of the success of the podcast you're wrong about, for example. That podcast makes somewhere in the neighborhood of $100 ,000 a month, conservatively speaking. That the odds were good we'd strike it huge like that, but who knows? Maybe we would have been able to build something really cool. I'm really sad that this possibility is gone, especially because I thought the work was so valuable to the world, especially the trans panic debunking stuff. Now, let's talk about editing for OA. August 2022, again thinking I wanted to make absolutely sure she could afford to leave her job, and because I was completely overloaded with work, I offered the idea that she might take over editing for UA. She said she knew how to edit, but when I had her try a few, it was not up to the quality I needed. Have always been really reticent to hand off any editing. It's something I take immense pride in, and I believe I am genuinely very good at it. I thought it would be pretty easy to train someone else, especially someone as brilliant as Lindsay, to take over. Proposal I made to her was, to paraphrase, I'm extremely hesitant to hand off editing for OA, but if I could get to the point where I truly think I could have you do it and me not worry about it, I would be willing to pay quite a lot for that, to where you would definitely not have to worry about going back to your job. Weren't totally sure it was going to get to that point, but she had a lot of financial flexibility I wasn't aware of. She had weirdly made a large sum of money, I want to say something like $200 ,000 if I remember correctly, on Bitcoin before it crashed. Now, I don't know if she ended up with that entire amount in cash per se, but she did tell me she had tons of time and financial room to figure things out. Still, I definitely wanted her to have that shit figured out ASAP. I was apparently more stressed about her leaving her job than she was. Started that training process, and it unfortunately did not go as well as I'd hoped. Was doing literally double the work I was doing already, and

0:22:29 Thomas: Her, since I don't want any work going unpaid for. She flew out and spent a weekend with me and the family. Again, wanting to make sure she was always paid very fairly, I told her I'd cover that travel cost, but she actually insisted she do it for some reasons over my several objections. Was a really nice time, and we obviously did much more socializing than working. To mention plenty of Crokinole and Elliot Smith. I gave her hands -on training in editing. Apologies right now for tooting my own horn, but my podcast production skills that I've worked rigorously for 13 plus years to develop are something I genuinely feel pride about. Feel like my personally training someone in editing and podcast production is probably something that I could charge a decent amount for. Once again, I was absolutely going to pay her for her time and it wasn't a question because I believe in fair pay and the progressive ideals that I espouse. I also provided her with very expensive software on my dime that I well. As time went by and her editing continued to not meet expectations, I was becoming unsure it would work and knowing when she could really start doing it without my supervision. The stress was absolutely killing me. The OA turnaround is really fast, and I was constantly doing two or three times the work because of training her and fixing her mistakes. And we had some tension on this, and it came to a head with a pretty tough conversation. I won't go more into it, but despite it being pretty tough for both of us emotionally, we agreed we ended at a really good place. That was December 7th. I told her I'd pay her $200 for every single episode she did anything on at all up to this point, and I got her to finally send me the spreadsheet where she tracked her work. Documents is a picture of the spreadsheet she sent me and a message saying I really didn't need to pay her for those ones she barely touched. Did anyway. The phone conversation, I told

0:24:17 Thomas: To that point where where I literally didn't have to touch the audio after recording, I would pay her $300 an episode. I want you to do some quick math for me. Was doing four episodes a week. When I edit, I'm able to do it in three hours. Maybe Lindsay would need four. So that's 16 hours a week for $1 ,200. That would equate to $62 ,400 a year for a 16 -hour work week. I haven't been up on the news as much as I used to be, but did we pass a minimum wage that is not only that high, but is higher than that? Because holy shit, that's awesome for the country. Let's take, just to be absolutely sure, an incredibly anti -Thomas version of those numbers. Let's say she and I kept her at $200 an episode. Let's just say that. Let's say it takes her way longer than it takes me to do it. So six hours, double my time. That would still be $33 an hour. Is that less than minimum wage? Was not until a bit after this that I realized, oh my God, I literally do Dear Old Dads myself for an episode, not on Tom and Eli. They said, "Name my price," and I am so pathologically worried I'm not being fair at all times, I said $150. After that realization, I asked them if I could go to $200, and they once again said, "Literally say any number and we'll pay you that." It's $200 currently. In conclusion, and with all the proof attached, are unbelievably false, defamatory fucking lies that these two people are spreading about me. About what that must feel like. Again, I implore you to think about how damaging it is to me to have people lie like this. You are to believe that I am sitting on a giant pile of gold and was paying Lindsay less for unending labor. If that were true, you should all be pretty mad. However, because I am someone who actually believes in everything I say, that is not the case. It is making me fucking insane to have people believing that I'm literally the opposite of who I am. It's impossible to cope with, seriously. Now imagine, instead of it being about money, they were spreading this same level of falsehood about aiding and abetting sexual predation. Please tell me what, would you have expected my private messages to say regarding them at the peak of an existential crisis? Please ponder that with regard to me, at least these are not honest actors. In my view, at best, you could say maybe they were deceived, but showing this level of reckless disregard for the truth with things that are this serious in a public forum, I'm sorry, I don't care how right you might be about certain other things. It isn't okay. It isn't. And seeing what this has done to Lydia, I don't have words for the sadness and anger I've felt. And I've stayed silent. I did not want to do anything like publicly question another victim. But holy fuck, enough lying is enough. I don'T know how this animosity toward me got to this level, especially from people I had at one time considered dear friends, but it's extremely scary. Meanwhile, Andrew is on OA with full control of that platform. And these people are, instead of, I don't know, criticizing any of the other horrible stuff in his complaint, solely focusing on taking his narrative of my words as the gospel truth and running with it. Just so sad and bizarre and a million other things. It fucking sucks. Your instinct in all of this was to believe these people. Good. That is good. That is also my instinct. I still believe much of what they've said. You will not hear me cry some bullshit like Me Too has gone too far or false accusations are a bigger problem than abusers. No. Fuck that. It's all bullshits that shitty abusive people say. Goddamn Did I Get Unlucky Here. Did not need to be be this way. It really truly sucks. Believing victims does not mean believing every single thing they've ever said, even when it's demonstrably false and defamatory. A way, I'm lucky that the audacity of their lying finally got so incredible that they went into territory that freed up my ability to speak. Feel such a relief at having this very minor opportunity to fight back. I also want to, in complete fairness, point out it's entirely logically possible that that they are lying about this particular thing, but told the complete truth about everything else. I grant that's possible, and I leave that to your judgment. I will at least, once again, emphasize that I will be eventually sharing all the evidence I have, and it would be a hell of a fucking gambit to put all my eggs in that basket and never deliver. You for reading, and thank you especially to everyone who knew there had to be more to the story and reserve judgment. There still is. Tons. It's coming. Now, again, in complete fairness, and because I care about the truth, I want to give a bit of an update based on comments that happened to this. Of the people I've referenced insists that they were only referring to Theresa Gomez. If you look at the tweets, it is true that their side of it could be construed as only referring to Theresa. I guess they would be really concerned with Theresa, the person who's gone on all in for the person they allege is their abuser, but okay, sure. I want to respond to that. This person also notes they get this from Teresa Gomez's declaration that is a part of Andrew Torres's lawsuit. Want To make sure that their side is out there as much as I can. So that's their side of that. So to that, I have a response. First, this means that this person was merely agreeing with and signal demonstrably false defamatory lies here. Teresa has never been a co-host or editor. That is Lindsay. Once again, I do not see any sense of urgency to counteract harmful defamory shit. Hey, if you are mad at somebody, it is fine to encourage defamation, right? Teresa's declaration is in service of the alleged abuser. Is important to the bullshit case Andrew is making that Teresa represent herself as separate from anything officially OA as much as possible. So far from complaining about not being paid, the purpose of this paragraph is actually to help Andrew by emphasizing no official connection. Remember, OA is Andrew and I 50 -50. So do you think that Teresa would be filing declarations in service of Andrew that complained about OA not paying her? She ever wanted to be paid, she didn't, that decision would be mine and Andrew's 50 - 50. once again, here is this person using the abuser's and the abusing's advocate's words at face value in an effort to harm me, someone who was touched inappropriately by by the abuser. This person is taking part in the ridiculing of my emotional breakdown as I told people what happened. But hey, that's okay because this person's mad, right? Is not justice. This is NOT advocacy. Third and finally, the one time, I did asked Teresa to something for for me, I paid her $100 for I think something like two, three hours of work. That seems like a more than fair rate to me. Can attach proof if necessary. Once again, the defamatory point trying to be made that I'm going around ripping people off and taking advantage of them is just not true. And so listeners, I'm really sorry for this very bizarre episode and know what to say other than I think I already explained myself and why this was so important to me. Just want to echo once again that that this thing fucking sucks in every single way. And it did not need to be like this. It did not needs to. Again, I promise more is coming soon. Would trade everything I have for the truth to be known to everyone. I really would. Am hoping we will get closer to that soon. It breaks my heart for the rest of my life to never have any idea who I will never back from. Who, who just left? Don't know. I think included in that group is a lot of people I was really friends with and shared conference experience with and played games with and joked with. I don'T know. It's, sucks. It'S just, I, so if me being able to speak out on this one thing and correct the obvious record and back it with facts on this One Thing, if there's any possibility that could reach one OF these people, then that'll be worth it to me. I want to leave you on a positive note. Once again, I am really excited about the podcast news I have. I'm hoping Monday. Effect, I don't know.

0:32:32 Thomas: I don't It's going to be really cool. Really hope you'll listen. Thank you so much, truly, eternally, to not just people who have supported me, but to those of you who said, this doesn't seem right. There must be more to this. Even if you didn't support me, even if he just said, I'm going to wait until I know more. Thank you. Thank you very much. Seriously. Thank you, so much. Any of you ever see me and would like to hug for a socially awkward amount of time, Please do not hesitate to ask. Cannot tell you how much I treasure that, that much, just that much a willingness to say, I don't think this could be right. Let me at least wait until I have all the information. You so much for listening and stay tuned real soon for some exciting stuff. I'll see you then.